DBWI: Happy Pacifican Independence day!!

[Voice of The Empire]

has it really been twelve years since the states of utah, washington, idaho, Oregon, and California declared their independence from the formerly United states?

i just got back from the independence day celebrations up at Portland, and i've been thinking ever since. i know relations with the US and the CSA havent been exactly, cordial, since the split; my little brother is serving on the border in California, and he tells me all the time about these little clashes with the confederates every so often. and i remember the second war of independence, when bush SR launched his bid to reconquer us in '94. i served in Utah.

but, still. i wonder what would have happened if the second war had ended with our defeat. how would you guys have treated us?

[Mr_ Bondoc]

While it may seem very disturbing, consider that there is historical precedent in democracies for the actions of President George H.W. Bush in 1994. With Great Britain, just remember the massive crackdown P.M. John Allseebrook Simon placed on dissent during the 1924 Zinoviev Letter,the 1925 Dublin Uprising, and the 1926 House of Commons Uprising....

[LacheyS]

At least there wouldn't be this terrible Cold War-like antagonism. It might be helped if the newspapers in America actually reported the money being spent on the Shadow War, instead of alleging that all that money goes to fighting drugs or terrorists. Instead, all you get is the occasional mention in the underground papers, but they never get it straight.

If it hadn't been for the fact that the missile plants near Sacramento and San Francisco had fallen into Pacifica's hands, the war might have gone on a lot longer than it did.

[Voice of The Empire]

yeah, i remember hearing about that when i was with the army during the offensive into colorado. im glad we havent had to use it yet. im just glad congress forced him to back down after that.

still, i wish we had another chance at the bastard. i was with the 401st when we found the "detention" camps in the middle of Colorado. i know most US people dont want to admit it, and i know what they tell you guys in europe, but i was THERE.

[LacheyS]

Is it true that there were massive numbers of births nine months after the first Independence Day? Surely there could have been other ways to celebrate. :D

[Voice of The Empire]

well....:o when it happens....

im wondering about the CSA though. those three divisions they jus moved into Nevada make me nervous.

[TheMann]

Well, I'm living in the liberated city of Seattle.

My family in Portland is also happy to be where they are, too. The USA? What's that?:D

[Haggis]

Damn Pacificans! You don't know how good you're missing it in the USA. We've got tax breaks and all these nice new guns. Pretty soon we're gonna destroy you bastards.

[TheMann]

So, Mr. Haggis, you think you can destroy the greatest nation in the world?

You guys are just mad that you lost us - blame the Republicans, we live by our rules, and you guys were the ones who tried to put us down - good luck with all of that.

Oh, I found this boys. I think you'll like it.

US President Bush is negotiating with Pacifica President Robert Kellington, right? Well, one of my contacts in the government leaked me this.

A permanent peace deal is coming - and we insisted on including Nevada in our nation. And proving just how ball-less the Elephants are, we actually got it.:D

This is gonna be our nation if this deal is agreed to. I think the guys in San Francisco are gonna like this.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/7863/pacifica2qg0.png

We get Nevada in return for withdrawing from Colorado, Wyoming, Montana and Arizona, and We get the northern third of Baja from Mexico for withdrawing from the rest. Good deal, I believe.:)

[HueyLong]

Lets see how you guys like dealing with the religious war in Utah- Mormons, Gentiles and Greasers.

[Nicole]

Hm, looking at the Pacifican dealings with the Scientologists, I think the Mormons won't be a problem- the Pacificans actually seem to believe in tolerating non-standard faiths, unlike you Yankees...

[HueyLong]

The problem is that the Mormons aren't willing to stand non-Mormon faiths- they are the ones who jumped on Catholics, Indian animists and "Gentile" Christians.

The US Army was the one defending against zealots. These are sick people- children with bombs, women from their harems "empowered by faith"- suicide bombing.

And before you say I'm spouting force fed propaganda, I was there.

[Nicole]

The problem is that the Mormons aren't willing to stand non-Mormon faiths- they are the ones who jumped on Catholics, Indian animists and "Gentile" Christians.

The US Army was the one defending against zealots. These are sick people- children with bombs, women from their harems "empowered by faith"- suicide bombing.

And before you say I'm spouting force fed propaganda, I was there.
If you were there (and forgive me for doubting that), then how do you explain the Mt. Zion Massacre, where US Army fired on a Mormon compund and killed no less and 15 children and 35 adults... BEFORE any notable Mormon violence had occured?

[Pyro]

On this day of celebration for Pacifica, I would like to thank our southern neighbours to inspire the formerly-Canadian provinces of British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan and the Yukon & Northwest Territories to throw off the shackles of the oppression from Ottawa. No longer do we have to worry about the Liberal oligarchy taking the people's wealth and transferring East.

Happy Pacifican Indepence Day from the West Canadian Republic!

[LacheyS]

The Cuban Ambassador sends his fraternal greetings, by the way.

I saw him down at the party in Soul City (the African quarter of SanFran)yesterday. He'd had a little too much to drink, but that only meant the cigars got passed around all the more freely.

He mentioned the recent American air strikes in Brazil. Do those Yankee imperialists ever give up? I'm so glad that Pacifica managed to free itself.

[Imperator]

You Pacificans may rest easy with your independence for another year or two, but just you wait. Once our Star Wars Missile Defense System is up and running, I'm positive that the US will take the first chance to rain fiery destruction down upon you without fear of retribution. Last week's passage of that Senate bill expanding production of the new bunker busting nukes is a warning that should not go unheeded.

[LacheyS]

So, Mr. Haggis, you think you can destroy the greatest nation in the world?

You guys are just mad that you lost us - blame the Republicans, we live by our rules, and you guys were the ones who tried to put us down - good luck with all of that.

Oh, I found this boys. I think you'll like it.

US President Bush is negotiating with Pacifica President Robert Kellington, right? Well, one of my contacts in the government leaked me this.

A permanent peace deal is coming - and we insisted on including Nevada in our nation. And proving just how ball-less the Elephants are, we actually got it.:D

This is gonna be our nation if this deal is agreed to. I think the guys in San Francisco are gonna like this.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/7863/pacifica2qg0.png

We get Nevada in return for withdrawing from Colorado, Wyoming, Montana and Arizona, and We get the northern third of Baja from Mexico for withdrawing from the rest. Good deal, I believe.:)

I don't think that we should keep Baja. Irregardless of the past between us, we are never going to move forward in relations with Mexico if we keep it. I would prefer that we support the Pan-Mexican Movement in Arizona and New Mexico.

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Damn Pacificans! You don't know how good you're missing it in the USA. We've got tax breaks and all these nice new guns. Pretty soon we're gonna destroy you bastards.

Well, unlike you we have comprehensive education, complete health-care coverage, the right to the best medical marijuana money can buy, and the right to sleep with any consenting person without fear of arrest for "morals conduct", plus more than 3 channels on the TV set...

Personally you can keep your Spam and Velveeta Cheese diets to yourselves....

[HueyLong]

If you were there (and forgive me for doubting that), then how do you explain the Mt. Zion Massacre, where US Army fired on a Mormon compund and killed no less and 15 children and 35 adults... BEFORE any notable Mormon violence had occured?

Your *Pacifican* propaganda tends to gloss over the fact that the compound assaulted was being held by Mormon extremists who had kidnapped fourteen US citizens, all Gentiles.

And your account strangely adds in children casualties. Before the actaul assault, the children in the compound were forced to commit suicide. At least one remained when our forces breached the perimeter and blew himself apart, yelling "Deus Veult!"

To claim that the good men involved in service there willingly harmed children is despicable. I know a few involved in the actual operation, and I will hold their accounts far above any Pacifican/terrorist rag,

[LacheyS]

You Pacificans may rest easy with your independence for another year or two, but just you wait. Once our Star Wars Missile Defense System is up and running, I'm positive that the US will take the first chance to rain fiery destruction down upon you without fear of retribution. Last week's passage of that Senate bill expanding production of the new bunker busting nukes is a warning that should not go unheeded.

And you think that we don't have measures of our own. There are loyal Pacificans in each of your major cities and, unlike our good friends the Arabs, we blend perfectly into your cities. If you rain down destruction on us, I think the President will gladly give the order to our people to perform their suicide bombing. After all, when you've eliminated their families, they don't have much else to live for. The Arabs have taught us that desperate times makes for desperate measures. Pacifica doesn't want war, but, by God, you'll get one if you ask for it.

And don't forget the graveyard of scrap metal that used to be your Air Force. We shot down over six thousand jets and helicopters during the war. However, if you're willing to contribute to our supply of raw materials by flying them in, so be it.

[LacheyS]

Your *Pacifican* propaganda tends to gloss over the fact that the compound assaulted was being held by Mormon extremists who had kidnapped fourteen US citizens, all Gentiles.

And your account strangely adds in children casualties. Before the actaul assault, the children in the compound were forced to commit suicide. At least one remained when our forces breached the perimeter and blew himself apart, yelling "Deus Veult!"

To claim that the good men involved in service there willingly harmed children is despicable. I know a few involved in the actual operation, and I will hold their accounts far above any Pacifican/terrorist rag,

I don't know why the Yankees have to continue to bombard our board with their rubbish. I give more credit to those Internet sites that say the American government made up the whole Mt Zion massacre. Anyone who fought them during the War of Independence knows that they are more than capable of such viciousness.

[HueyLong]

Whatever. Another wild eyed fool.

I've fought in Utah. The Mormons chose to jump upon other religions in "Deseret" as soon as America became entangled elsewhere. Note that two weeks before Mt. Zion, the Church of Latter Day Saints released a declaration of independence, claimed sovereignety over much of the Southwest, and also declared war on all foreign churchess within their claimed territory.

The Mt. Zion Standoff was the first major and internationally watched event of Mormon terrorism. There were smaller actions undertaken by them. The Salt Lake City Raid uncovered a harem of more than twenty seven under age girls, and resulted in Eight American casualties, and seven Mormon casualties. The so-called Nauvoo Legion attacked a supply train two days before the Mt. Ziuon Standoff.

You know what, your anti-Americanism is unfounded. Once you get Utah (if you get Utah), you'll see what we have to deal with, as you'll get to mop up the Mormons and deal with all the grievances of Catholic and Protestant Gentiles. And if you ignore what the Mormons are doing, well then, your state will be supporting genocide.

[Voice of The Empire]

the mormons maybe a little cooky, but their good fighters. as long as they respect the laws, and other peoples religions, i have no problems.

as for Baja, i'm surprised the mexicans agreed to that. their pressed for territory and resources as it is, what with the US in New mexico and Arizona, and the Confederates in Texas. i really hope Kellington was serious about that "Pan American Alliance" he mentioned during the Address last month. with both Mexico and west Canada on our side, and CSA/US relations even worse then those between ourselves and the US, i dont think we have much to worry about.

[Max Sinister]

I'd rather bet on Pacifica. Pacifica got all the good scientists, and the rest-USA's superior manpower isn't everything.

[TheMann]

You see, the Mormons haven't been giving us grief because we allow them to live however they wish to live. As long as they don't break our laws, why would we have to attack them? You see, we'd rather solve our problems through peaceful means. You guys seem to want to enrich your defense contractors by blowing up any problem you get. You tried that with us, I hope I don't need to remind you of what happened on the Tidewater Flats in Tacoma.

Even the UN thinks we have the best nation in the world. You see, we put ourselves first, by that I mean everyone gets the best education, health care and services that we can. It's made quite a difference, even in our scant 12 years of independence. All you need to do is look at the towers of Seattle's business district and you'll see what I mean. Heck, a bunch of bigshot American companies now work here too, that's why General Motors owns the Smith Tower here and is building their new tower as well.:)

To Imperator and the other arrogant Yankees - 92 million people can't be wrong. We're happy to have left you nutcases behind. It wasn't us firebombing residential neighbourhoods like what happened in Los Angeles, or shooting down airliner flights that came out of Pacifica. Maybe when you finally figure out your corporate-power obsessed government is driving your country into the ground. We have lots and lots of factories to make whatever weapons we feel are neccessary, so just try and hit us. Oh, and we happen to have a missile defense system of our own - our biggest cities are on water, and our new naval cruisers can target an inbound more then 800 miles away moving at any speed.

And Yankees, I'd suggest you worry about Hawaii, it seems like they want out of the USA too. Have a nice day now.

I have to get back to work. You see, our technology which you guys for so long surpressed to make your oil company guys happy is being developed fast. My guys are working on our prototype Hydrogen-fueled engines for aircraft and railway locomotives. We've already tested them in a Boeing 747, it managed to fly from Seattle to Los Angeles and then to Vancouver without refueling and any problems.

And my nephew in Spokane has been raving for months how far they've gotten on their prototype fusion power reactor.

Have fun in the technology age. We're going beyond that.

Oh, and before I forget, my brother died in Colorado and my best friend died fighting for Phoenix. You need not worry about us, we're moving on. Bring your big guns. We'll still kick you a**.

[Haggis]

What? Has any of you read the papers? It was a bloody war yes but the tensions from the Pacifican hardliners forced many Mormons to fight for their very existence, we all heard the story about the Patriots who were killed on sight by many Pacifican Radical scum.

As for the Mt. Zion massacre. Dear God, that was some kids who were being used as anti-artillery by Pacifican dogs. They thought the US wouldn't bomb that compound if it was filled with children. I'm just tired of everyone trying to make the United States seem like some sort of evil empire here.

We did what was right.

[TheMann]

Haggis, do you really believe what you just said?

Bush and his buddies blew up the seperation of church and state and tried to force the Mormons. Pacifican hardliners my arse. Which side's helicopter evacuated the surviving Mormons after your little massacre of them? That move was part of the reason Utah joined Pacifica rather than the Confederacy. Our helicopters took the wounded but alive Mormons to hospitals in Twin Falls and Boise, the worst injured went all the way to San Francisco and Seattle. They don't fight us because we made sure they stayed alive.

Want to blame somebody for that massacre? Let's start with your Attorney-General, Katherine Harris. There is a reason we told the US delegation not to have her be part of it - she'd be arrested here over the Mt. Zion standoff.

[JP_Morgan]

(OOC: It seems to be a cliche that an independent Pacifica turns into some kind of Social Democratic nation:rolleyes: . I know Utah and Idaho wouldn't go for it, they're noe left-leaning enough.)

All the good scientists... well I wouldn't be too sure of that. The US still has many well-placed missiles to rain down firy destruction on your cities, even with your good defenses

[Voice of The Empire]

{OOC: even so, the number of left leaning states remaining over shadows the two. and besides, war changes people and countries. maybe this worlds versions of Utah and Idaho were made more socially liberal by the events of this world. we dont know yet.}

hey, with the ninth and twelfth army groups aimed at New Mexico and Colorado, and most of the Airforces on twenty four hour standby, if you want a fight. we'll have to ablige.

[Aaron]

All the good scientists... well I wouldn't be too sure of that. The US still has many well-placed missiles to rain down firy destruction on your cities, even with your good defenses

Even so, it wouldn't be much of a victory. Not only would the Republic respond in kind to a nuclear attack, but Im sure that the CSA would launch strikes on the US themselves, to prevent the US from attacking them of course. And if you think the CSA is not a nuclear power then you are crazy. Everyone knows that the Chinese have been funneling nukes to Richmond for years.

If the US stikes at Pacifica, North America gets turned into glass, pure and simple.

Aaron

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Has anyone considered the initial causes of the Pacifican War of Independence lie in the failures of the federal government to deal with the needs of the Western states? During WWI (1914-1919), just consider that the state militias were given a paltry 6,000 troops to deal with the Mexican troops that attacked California, New Mexico, Arizona, et al. During the Dust Bowl Disaster (1934-1939), just remember that the thousands of "Okies" flooding the states unemployment lines. Then came WWII....

[Voice of The Empire]

i tell you what, the main reason i fought was because i was tired of working all day at the plant, only to see most of the money i earned go back east. not to mention the fact that, thanks to Nixon, and later, Reagan, no one could afford gas anymore. when i think of those days..... i mean, 5.30? you've got to be kidding me.

[Mr_ Bondoc]

i tell you what, the main reason i fought was because i was tired of working all day at the plant, only to see most of the money i earned go back east. not to mention the fact that, thanks to Nixon, and later, Reagan, no one could afford gas anymore. when i think of those days..... i mean, 5.30? you've got to be kidding me.

Does anyone find it ironic that those Presidents that you mentioned were both former Republican governors of California during the 1950s and 1960s?

[Voice of The Empire]

im sure that must have stuck in Reagans craw for years... he's president, and his home state secedes.

that does explain his partcularly vicous denoucment of us in the UN a couple years ago...

[Mr_ Bondoc]

im sure that must have stuck in Reagans craw for years... he's president, and his home state secedes.

that does explain his partcularly vicous denoucment of us in the UN a couple years ago...

Well, the fact that he also saw Italy and France join the Euro-Communist alliance by 1986, nearly gave the man a heart attack. Everyone seems to remember the call for "Freedom Fries" and "Freedom Toast" by Newt Gingrich (R-GA)...

Another issue is to consider the ongoing war with religious rebels to support Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi in Tehran since 1981. For many years, Ayatollah Khomeini would use American and British television networks to issue his fatwas against American troops. Popular support crashed first in the Pacific States...

[Voice of The Empire]

its not like we never saw the Ayatolah as a threat. off course we did. its just that we knew the real reason the Shah was in power, and also we saw what he was doing to his people.

for myself, i just could'nt swallow the crap reagan kept peddling toward the end... i mean, he goes on the air, with his "all is well" garbage, and in the meantime, people are dieing for his anti communisim fetish.

[birdy]

OOC whats the POD

[TheMann]

OOC whats the POD

Formally Pacifica seceeded on August 28th, 1994. The war was fought openly until July 1997 and the Dallas Cease-fire. It's been a cold war since.

I served with the 166th Armored Division, known as the Cascade Mountain. We served in Montana, Utah, Nevada and Arizona. Man, some of the stuff I've seen is horror movie stuff.

With West Canada and Mexico looking at forming an alliance with us - assuming Kellington isn't BSing us, which has happened before - we'll be OK away from you guys.

My only regret was the 166th wasn't part of the drive to Denver. I remember the stories about how fast the US Army, even with their shiny toys, got mauled by Pacifican fighters. Our M1A2X Tanks, combined with F-44 Strikers modified for anti-tank duty, made roadkill of even your vaunted 10th Mountain. And the 82nd Airborne trying to take back Salt Lake City? I won't forget that. You guys thought your HUMMVs could roll into town, which they did - until a 155mm M110 Paladin II blew it into flying scrap metal.

[Voice of The Empire]

OOC: actually, Pacifica scedes first in 1986, then, eight years later, Bush SR launchs an attempt at reconquest. the US only offically aknowledged Pacifican Independence after the first war. and the formal peace treaty is still being ironed out.

[pieman3141]

I thought one of the original names for Pacifica was Cascadia. I guess that didn't work too well when BC didn't join, but you guys gained Idaho and Utah. Seeing how the current BC/Canadian government is screwing us over, a few of us might move down..

[Spacedragonblue]

There's no denying the government of the US continues to get worse and worse. I live in New York and, last I heard, we and the rest of the Northeast may secceed at any moment. We've stayed longer than the Northwest, but we're fed up too. We're another region of the country where seperation of church and state is sacred, and the Pacificans encouraged other sepratists around the country and the world...

[Sgt. Pepper]

So is the CSA free or is the South still stuck under the US...I see mention of Confederates but also of Bush as pres of US...

[Mr_ Bondoc]

OOC whats the POD

OOC: I have dropped some hints that the POD for the ATL is actually in the period c.1914, with the lack of a strong federal response to attacks by Wilson over attacks by Mexcican rebels led by Pancho Villa. This compiled by teh even worse response to the "Okies" during the Dust Bowl Crisis of 1934-1939. This all culminates in the 1980s, political secession is a viable political option....

IATL: Personally, staring in 1983, the "War on Drugs" also served to disenfranchise many Pacifican residents from the federal government. Name me one African-American leader who would be willing to stand at a podium with President Ronald Reagan after Gary Webb's articles about cocaine shipments into the ghettoes of urban America were featured in the San Jose Mercury News in 1986? Also the Treaty of Bogota in 1988, which ended the war with trade concessions to Cuba, Colombia, Peru, Panama, and Mexico were an embarassment to all involved....

[Pyro]

OOC: Is the map I prepare any bit accurate to this ATL?

IATL: Can anyone tell me the status of Alaska? It's been a while since I heard about their status. Are they still in the Union or are they considering joining with Pacifica like Hawaii is?

[TheMann]

You pretty much got it Pyro. Alaska is still part of the union, for now. They are debating whether to stay, join Pacifica or West Canada, or declare independence. Alaskans are very independent, so I expect them to try to make it on their own. We aren't gonna stop them, I hope, we have no need. Our society is starting to move beyond oil and we have good relations with oil-rich West Canada, so no need. Hawaii has formally asked us for stateship in Pacifica. Whether they'll get it is a political question - people in Utah and Nevada are against, but California, Oregon and Washington are for it. It's Kellington's call now.

Of course, sporadic protests have occured across New England. The protests stretch through Ohio, south to Maryland and north to Maine. Indiana and Michigan are still very much Union supporters.

The Confederates at the current administration in Washington seem to think alike with the Union leaders. Of course, now Bush's home state is Confederate, but that doesn't seem to bother him much. There is the beginnings of a theocracy there now, which is sad. Our nation fought for two centuries to create a secular, open nation only for Reagan, Bush and Dubya to tear it apart through nutcases like Donald Rumsfeld, Spencer Abraham, Antonin Scalia and Katherine Harris. I dunno about my fellow Pacificans, but I'm glad to be gone.

Should Alaska declare independence like I figure and Hawaii join Pacifica, North America will look like this:

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/16/pacifican2lr9.png

Union States

Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachetusetts, Conneticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Missouri, Kansas, Iowa, South Dakota, North Dakota, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Arizona, New Mexico

Confederate States

Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, Florida, Cuba, Bahamas

Pacifican States

California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Utah, Nevada, Hawaii, Baja California

Independent

Alaska

West Canada

British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Yukon, Northwest Territories

Canada

Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland, Labrador, Nunavut

- Mexico annexed Guatemala, Belize and El Salvador in 2001
- Quebec declared independence in 1981, but rejoined Canada in 1998
- Baja California was taken by Pacifica after the Union used it as a staging base to attack Los Angeles and San Diego. Mexico allowed Pacifica to keep it after a 2000 peace treaty
- The Confederacy broke from the Union in 2001 after the Dallas ceasefire. - Confederates took Cuba after Fidel Castro died in a car crash in 2002

Good job Pyro, it looks good and worked well, I just had to make a few little changes....

[Sgt. Pepper]

The South did rise again! I knew I wasn't crazy. When did we annex the Bahamas though? And when is Puerto Rico gonna wise up and apply for Confederate statehood?

[Nicole]

Why would Puerto Rico declare statehood? They've been one of the Latin American success stories since they voted for independance in the 90s.

[Sgt. Pepper]

oh yeah, forgot about that...well at least they saw reason and left the US...best move anyone could ever make...I still don't see why New Mexico and Arizona haven't declared for Mexico or Pacifica...or why Montana still hasn't left for the RWC...

[Mr_ Bondoc]

OOC: Here are some actual PODs from OTL that could lead to the ATL that is being described:

-1993- Joe Vogler, right-wing leader of the Alaskan Independence Party (AIP), dies suddenly in Juneau, Alaska, just prior to an announced testimony before the General Assembly of the United Nations...

-2000- Aryan Nation (a.k.a. Church of Jesus Christ Christian) under Richard G. Butler announces the intent to create an "Aryan homeland" in the Pacific Northwest....

-1997- Richard Lance McLaren leads a group of right-wing militia groups in the formation of the "Republic of Texas" ...

-1998- "President Daniel Miller" leads a separate group of right-wing militia groups in the formation of a "Republic of Texas"...

-2003-Jim Taylor and Mr. Cory Burnell attempt to form a "Christian homeland" in the state of South Carolina, claiming that the United States had become "too atheisitic..."

[TheMann]

Butler is in a prison hospital in Spokane, he's dying of cancer. He got arrested in 1997 for treason and hate crimes against minorities in Seattle.

The Aryan Nation compounds in Washington, Oregon and Idaho got raided several times by Pacifican Forces. We don't like racists.:mad:

The US and the Confederacy have been real rough handling the Hispanics in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona, enough so that illegal immigration has virtually stopped. The Pacifican Border Patrol is former Army units, and they also have been effective. That said, it's not that hard to apply for immigration into Pacifica.

Puerto Rico is edging towards complete independence. If the Confederates are gonna invade anywhere, it's likely to be Haiti or the Dominican. Pacifican Naval Units are stationed in Jamaica following a treaty we have with them, and the Confederates look to be smart enough not to attack because they know we will respond if they do. Jamaica has also been supplying foodstuffs and aluminum in substantial amounts to Pacifica. It's been a substantial help to their economy.

[TheMann]

oh yeah, forgot about that...well at least they saw reason and left the US...best move anyone could ever make...I still don't see why New Mexico and Arizona haven't declared for Mexico or Pacifica...or why Montana still hasn't left for the RWC...

Montana has always been stalwart supporters of the Union.

New Mexico and Arizona went to the Union after Confederates killed thousands of their people in 2001 and 2002. When the Military went for Cuba they went back to the Union. Pacifica tried to convince Arizona to join them but they turned us down.

Economics

- Pacifica, West Canada and Mexico are trading a lot with each other. Mexico's economy has been helped a lot by this. Pacifica is mostly high-tech industry (aircraft, electronics, finished metals, chemicals, shipbuilding) and services, whereas Mexico's bigger labour pool has allowed bigger industrial ventures including auto plants, steel mills, oil refineries, food processing plants and textile mills. West Canada is a major energy producer and also a massive agricultural producer. Pacifica is a net food importer, but the other two produce plenty to feed themselves.
- The Union is also growing economically, mostly out of neccessity. Their relations with Pacifica have made trade with Asia a big hassle, so they instead have moved towards economic self-sufficiency. This has helped the Northeast Corridor especially.
- The Confederacy has problems with inflation, but otherwise is pretty solid. Their labour pool isn't as well educated as Pacifica, West Canada or the Union, but it isn't causing many issues. South Florida is a powerder keg waiting to go off, as its population is overwhelmingly non-white.
- Canada is following the same path as the Union is. Canada has managed to maintain good relations with everyone. West Canada has never fought them militarily.

Geez, I feel like I'm hijacking someone else's thread here......sorry :o

[Pyro]

I'm hoping those RWC high-tech incentives that President Stephen Harper approved will diversify our economy. As good as the oil industry has been to us, oil will be phased out as a viable resource in the coming decades. I've already heard some Pacifican firms have invested in some companies in Vancouver, Edmonton and Regina.

For guy born and raised in Ontario, Steven Harper is a visionary. Imagine what he could've had Canada stayed whole. I bet he'd be PM ;)

[Mr_ Bondoc]

Butler is in a prison hospital in Spokane, he's dying of cancer. He got arrested in 1997 for treason and hate crimes against minorities in Seattle.

The Aryan Nation compounds in Washington, Oregon and Idaho got raided several times by Pacifican Forces. We don't like racists.:mad:

The US and the Confederacy have been real rough handling the Hispanics in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona, enough so that illegal immigration has virtually stopped. The Pacifican Border Patrol is former Army units, and they also have been effective. That said, it's not that hard to apply for immigration into Pacifica.

Puerto Rico is edging towards complete independence. If the Confederates are gonna invade anywhere, it's likely to be Haiti or the Dominican. Pacifican Naval Units are stationed in Jamaica following a treaty we have with them, and the Confederates look to be smart enough not to attack because they know we will respond if they do. Jamaica has also been supplying foodstuffs and aluminum in substantial amounts to Pacifica. It's been a substantial help to their economy.

According to Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, the Minutemen Militias have been working with the FBI, and subsequently have been accused of creating the mass graves outside of El Paso, Texas; Phoenix, Arizona; Santa Fe, New Mexico; at al. since March 2006....

[TheMann]

I'm hoping those RWC high-tech incentives that President Stephen Harper approved will diversify our economy. As good as the oil industry has been to us, oil will be phased out as a viable resource in the coming decades. I've already heard some Pacifican firms have invested in some companies in Vancouver, Edmonton and Regina.

For guy born and raised in Ontario, Steven Harper is a visionary. Imagine what he could've had Canada stayed whole. I bet he'd be PM ;)

That's good. Hopefully West Canada isn't as hooked on the oil industry as the Union and Confederacy are.

Canada didn't stay a whole thanks to Trudeau. Liberal b*stard. He part of the reason my family left Ontario for the Pacific NW. Oh well, his loss. That's what Canada gets for shifting so far to the left....

Mr_Bondoc - yeah, I read about those too. How can one group of people be so cold towards another?

[TheMann]

bump

Update on one of our finest accomplishments so far. :D

The first real flight of the Boeing 2717 HSCT went perfectly. Up to Mach 2.7 without any issues at all, engines running cooler than expected. SeaTac to Narita in 5 hrs, 41 min. Pacifican National Airways, Northwest Airlines, Japan Airways, KLM Royal Dutch and Virgin are lining up for these things.

man, amazing how fast technology has developed......alcohol fueled cars are a third of the fleet and rising, Southern Pacific Railway has turbine passenger trains going at 180 miles an hour from LA to San Francisco, Seattle's air quality is 60% better than twenty years ago, Almost every house here in West Seattle makes enough power for themselves and makes a bit of money selling back to the grid from solar cells.

After we left you Yankees, things have just been all uphill for us. If y'all want to join us simply find your way to the borders, and apply to get in. It's not hard and the bureaucracy usually tells ya within 48 hours so ya don't have to camp long.

Their offering big incentives to poorer people in the other North American nations to settle in Utah. Good fertilizing and good techniques have made the plains outside Salt Lake City potential farmland, only the water in Great Salt Lake is too salty - so we're piping it in from Idaho. The Mormons were given a 14-square-mile chunk and the rest of it that isn't already owned is up for grabs. Jamaicans, Puerto Ricans and Canucks are already buying up great lumps of it.

[Magnum]

(Really nice story)

This is Euronews. Here are the headlines:
Heavy protest are announced by the german communist party to take place tommorow in Berlin, Munich and Hamburg, calling for a return of the country to the Euro-Communist Alliance. Polls show that 39% of germans want to live in a communist state, the lowest figure since the 1995 Revolution. Chancellor Angela Merkel is however confident that the anniversary of the '95 Revolution will not be interrupted by protest.
Police has announced a thightend security, given that british PM Tony Blair and french president Domenique De'Villpen are attending the celebrations.
The eyes of the world however are tuned to the the 2 main world crisis taking place. Information comming from Gdansk is highley unreliable. All we know so far is that an estimated 19.000 poles have died in the uprising, as soviet tanks poured into the streets of the once free polish city. British PM tony Blair stated in an interview to Le Monde that the british government has no involment, unlike 11 years ago. The europeean parliament has also voted a resoltion denying involvement.
The other world crisis is the escalating tension in North America, as numerous skirmishes have taken place at the border between the U.S. and Pacifica. With both nations continuing to mobilise reserves, a diplomatic solution seems further away with every passing day.

[ZhukovLee]

OOC: The U.S. fractures, Canada even fractures, yet Mexico stays whole, even expands? Are these annexations signs of a greater nationalism? Seems like the implosions to the north would give any seperatists all the distraction they need.

[TheMann]

OOC: The U.S. fractures, Canada even fractures, yet Mexico stays whole, even expands? Are these annexations signs of a greater nationalism? Seems like the implosions to the north would give any seperatists all the distraction they need.

Mexico's nationalism is stronger now because all of Latin America has gained more of a spine lately. The less influence from the guys in Washington combined with the CSA's attitude and Pacifica's wanting to work with them has made them more alert and more patriotic.

The skirmishes in Utah are largely because the Union punks keep causing a ruckus in Cedar City and Salt Lake, and the Utah government has heard enough of it. They also raided a refugee camp in Yuma, Arizona, trying to stop people from going to Pacifica. The Pacifican forces had to shove the Yankees off. The camp has been moved to Barstow, California, in order to avoid the dumb Yanks.

[Mr_ Bondoc]

OOC: Why hasn't Quebec become a national state after this entire collapse of the federal government? If anything, the Meech Lake Accords of 1994 would be considered as worthless as the Monroe Doctrine under these circumstances..

Has anyone considered the threat of the Minuteman Militias against the Soviet and Chinese peacekeeping forces that have been trying to contain the "loose nukes" that were part of the NORAD system prior to the collapse of the American federal government in 1992? I certainly remember the threats made by ultra-nationalist Donald Trump (R-NY) in 1994....

[LacheyS]

oh yeah, forgot about that...well at least they saw reason and left the US...best move anyone could ever make...I still don't see why New Mexico and Arizona haven't declared for Mexico or Pacifica...or why Montana still hasn't left for the RWC...

The situation in Montana is particularly tense. There are elements there, especially in the west, who would gladly join Pacifica, but the east is against the idea. I just hope that the Americans exercise due caution over their treatment of pro-secessionists in Montana. The last thing we want is to have to go to war to defend their rights.

[Nekromans]

Just got news from Canada - Quebec just seceded, and they're invading Labrador as we speak.

[TheMann]

Just got news from Canada - Quebec just seceded, and they're invading Labrador as we speak.

Their trying again? Yeesh. The labrador guys gave 'em so much crap last time the Quebecers got tired of it and left. And no doubt Ottawa is gonna make a run for Quebec City now......

And I know of the Confederate skirmishes in the Indianapolis area, too.

Man, I'm glad we're at peace here. :)