Manchukuo survives

[general_tiu]

I'm thinking of this...how if Manchukuo survived?

[Glen]

It would have to be a no WWII timeline, I think.

Or an 'Axis wins' timeline, though even those would be somewhat suspect, as with an Axis victory, we'd likely see Manchukuo absorbed fully into the Japanese Empire at some point.

[Redem]

Well Japan would have need to securize more territory in China in order secure manchuko existence. But I'm not sure about full blown intergration into Japan (maybe a change of Status but not neccearly a 100% intergration one)

[Max Sinister]

Unless a Soviet Manchuria counts (in case the nationalists can stop Mao), no...

[Tielhard]

Well in order to make this happen you need at least three other things happen.

1) A continued Japanese presence in China,
2) No Japanese conflict with the USSR,
3) No victory for either the KMT or the Communists in the CCW.

Bit of a tall order. I have not got a clue.

[MerryPrankster]

Does it have to be the Japanese puppet Manchukuo?

WI when the Qing dynasty fell, a lot of the Manchus retreated into Manchuria and attempted to establish a Manchu nation-state (or re-establish it, since there'd been a Manchu state there before the fall of the Ming)?

I asked my China-Japan teacher if such a thing were possible, and he said that the Manchus didn't think they'd win. However, if widespread pogroms and violence break out against the Manchu, perhaps they conclude they have no other choice?

[Martel]

I'm not sure this would work, but here goes.

The Soviets do not intervene in August 1945. Japan still surrenders as a result of the atomic bombs. The Kwantung Army and elements of the Korean Army refuse to accept the surrender (the 1930s Kwantung Army was notoriously undisciplined, in this timeline the tradition continues). The two armies agree to support Emperor Pu Yi as part of a larger plan to use Manchukuo to shame the homeland into resisting the Americans.

Pu Yi and his Japanese allies begin a major anti-bandit campaign against the Communists and the KMT in Manchukuo. With the civil war still continuing south of the Wall and the Soviets and Americans focused on Europe, Manchuria endures (Korea is also not divided because no Soviet troops). After the fall of the mainland China to Mao, the U.S. and Rhee's Korea decide to recognize Manchukuo as an anti-communist bastion in northern Asia. Thereafter, Manchukuo is under American nuclear protection and the Japanese forces are gradually replaced by Manchurians trained by the US.

[The Sandman]

The Manchukuan Candidate? Sounds nifty.

You'd likely see Manchuria become the final redoubt of the KMT, though; far more industrialized than Taiwan. Which could have interesting repercussions during the Cold War, to say the least.

[HueyLong]

This reminded me of a HoI2 campaign- the Soviet Japanese War of 1937.

But, nevermind and carry on.

[Wendell]

The Manchukuan Candidate? Sounds nifty.

You'd likely see Manchuria become the final redoubt of the KMT, though; far more industrialized than Taiwan. Which could have interesting repercussions during the Cold War, to say the least.
"Manchukuo" is Japanese for Manchuland, or rather, Manchuria. Its relationship with Japan would have to be maintained in order for it to remain "Manchukuo." Perhaps the Japanese sit out of the second world war, focusing wholly on China and Indochina?

[DuQuense]

IIRC When the US demanded that Japan withdraw from China in 1938, the note was translated as demanding withdraw from the Manchuria area also.
Japan Refused

A more excat note, or more detail, gives the anti China Invasion forces a boost. Japan withdraws north of the Great Wall, and sits out WW2.