Alternate American Flags

[Beck Reilly]

Everyone (including me) is always posting maps and whatsuch but no one ever posts flags. I thought it might be interesting to hear what people think is the background of these flags. Don't forget that flags, like symbols, usually in some way express the ideals, type of government, etc. of a nation. So, if you'd like to, pick a flag and give me a little background on it...

Flag #1

[Beck Reilly]

Here's Flag #2

[Beck Reilly]

Here's Flag #3

[Beck Reilly]

Here's Flag #4

[Beck Reilly]

Here's Flag #5

[Beck Reilly]

And, finally, Flag #6


Feel free to submit a flag of your own.

[Stalin]

Here's a flag:

[DuQuense]

1. Pennslyanian Alliance. after the failure of the convention in 1789 the Articles disolved and Pennslvania. formed Alliance with the small states surrounding it.

2. Imperial America. following the ARW Washington was offered the Crown of the new Nation, while his first reponse was to refuse, his assosiates point out the danger of splintering, without a strong central figure. So George bowed to the pressure and accepted , The King is Overthown, Hail The King.

3. New Sweden. In 1663 The Swedes manage to defeat the New Amterdamers, ending up with OTL Delmarva, New Jersey & Manhattan-Hudson.

4. Republic of New England. Following the Sucessful Shaw rebellion, NE left the US and formed the New England Republic.

5. US Confederation. After the secession of the NE Republic the remaining states reformed the Continital Uniion.

[Xen]

Walter all of those except the second one were alternate Confederate Flags. I designed an alternate American Flag for America for an alternate timeline where the US had an Emperor, Ill post it when I get home.

[DuQuense]

no fair posting more before i've finished the first five :mad:

[Beck Reilly]

Walter all of those except the second one were alternate Confederate Flags. I designed an alternate American Flag for America for an alternate timeline where the US had an Emperor, Ill post it when I get home.

LoL, you caught me. I wanted to see if anyone would think of that. Also some don't appear to fit with the CSA so I wanted to see where their rejected flags could be accepted. If that makes any sense.

[Beck Reilly]

Since Xen had to go and blow the whole game, I'll post some more different ones (and they're not all rejected CSA ones).

Flag #7

[Beck Reilly]

Here's Flag #8

[Beck Reilly]

Here's Flag #9

[Beck Reilly]

Here's Flag #10

[Beck Reilly]

Finally, Here's Flag #11

[DuQuense]

6. Chistian States of America, In 1982 the Fundimentalists won :eek: It took over 100 years to regain our freedoms [ See R A Heinliens history of the "Revolt in 2100"]

7. Union States of America. The labor Unions Win :D

[DuQuense]

7 [8]. Deseret. in 1846 the Mormans bought the state of Deseret from the Mexicans.

8. Greater Swisserland. Following the Nuclear holacaust in 1994 [see second Korean War], The Swiss came out of their underground civil defense sites and rebuilt Europe.

9. Vinland. settled in 1050

10. Vinland Confederation. As Vinland grow it sprawned Daughter States in 1602 after Henry Hudson, rediscovered Vinland, Vinland and her Daughters United against European attemps to conquer them.

11. Greater Canada. Following the British victory in 1813, New England was reannexxed into Greater Canada.

[David Howery]

The best US flag of all would be just like our current one, except the stars are replaced by a line drawing of the whole world, showing that the whole world is now part of the US :cool:

[ConfederateFly]

are flags 7 and 11 rejected Confederate Flags?

[Beck Reilly]

#7 is based on one. #11 is not related to the CSA.

Here's one like David Howery suggested:

Flag #12

[ConfederateFly]

Could you tell me which ones are related to the C.S. and if you know some others post them because I am creating a story for Changing the Times website?

[Beck Reilly]

Just go here (http://www.confederateflags.org/)

[Landshark]

That would be the flag of the United Nations Protectorate of America which was created in 2012 after the Final War in which the USA was defeated by an alliance of every other nation on the face of the earth. The causes of thewar are many but basically everyone was just fed up to the back teeth of the Americans going on about how the USA was so powerful and their weapons so advanced that they could defeat any other country in the world any time they wanted.

Everybody just wanted to wipe the smile off their faces. :D

[Beck Reilly]

No longer the flag of the "United Nations Protectorate of America":

Re-done Flag #12

[Landshark]

In this ATL the POTUS isn't a sinister bald man with a persian cat is he?

[David Howery]

shark> such scandalous lies... everyone knows that flag is that of the United States of Earth, formed when every other nation on Earth ganged up on us and promptly got their collective butts kicked... after years of rebuilding, reeducation, and reform, the rest of the planet was finally in a proper state of mind to become states in the glorious Union... thus the USE was formed..
only deluded criminal brainwashed malcontents still wish for the old ways to return... :p

[Straha]

were salt mines involved?

[Xen]

heres the one I promised

[Yankoslavian]

What's a good program to design the flags and post them as gifs?

[Beck Reilly]

Photoshop's good. I just use Paint, though.

[G.Bone]

Union of American States (formally Union of the Americas)

[G.Bone]

Union of American States (formally Union of the Americas)

[Grey Wolf]

heres the one I promised

Lovely flag, Lonnie, and nice coat of arms - what's its background ?

Grey Wolf

[Xen]

Thanks. I designed that flag for a timeline I wrote where America and Britain remained tied together and the American Revolution avoided by Parliment losing all control over America. America replaced it with a self governing Congress in Philadelphia but remained loyal to King George III. To make a long story short, there was a split at the rise of Queen Victoria where America named one of her cousins (a male) Emperor of America, so we have a North America united. America contains all of Canada, all of the US east of the Missisissippi, the northern Louisiana territory, Oregon, Idaho, and Washington state, and after the Crimean War, Alaska.

[David Howery]

Straha> of course there were salt mines involved... you have to have some place to put those deluded criminal brainwashed malcontents....

[ConfederateFly]

C.S. Flag This is the Flag of the C.S. from 1919-2004

[ConfederateFly]

It got screwed up

[Mike McGee]

Flag 3 is a scottish version of the red ensign. in an independent scotland it would probably be the flag for merchant ships to display. for the record i have seen it flown alongside the british red ensign on ships from scotland moored at donegal, ireland.

[Yankoslavian]

Thanks. I designed that flag for a timeline I wrote where America and Britain remained tied together and the American Revolution avoided by Parliment losing all control over America. America replaced it with a self governing Congress in Philadelphia but remained loyal to King George III. To make a long story short, there was a split at the rise of Queen Victoria where America named one of her cousins (a male) Emperor of America, so we have a North America united. America contains all of Canada, all of the US east of the Missisissippi, the northern Louisiana territory, Oregon, Idaho, and Washington state, and after the Crimean War, Alaska.

This is remarkably similar to my Tory America TL. The Brits, having outlawed slavery (at least in Imperial-controlled territory if not in independent Dominions) will not need to conquer the American Southwest which will remain Spanish.

My AH called for a British North America Act 1801 to establish 5 dominions in America:
*Canada (everything we call Canada east of Winnipeg, Vermont and the Adriondacks as well as E. Maine)
*New England (East of the Hudson/Green Mtns. and includes Nova Scotia)
*Pennsylvania (West of the Hudson/NJ/Del/Md)
*Virginia (and North Carolina)
*Florida (and South Carolina and Georgia to the Apalachicola River)

The Dominion of the West Indies is created under separate legislation.

By 1830 slavery has been long abolished and new colonies settled in Transappalachia and even the Pacific coast. An amendment to the BNA Act founds three more dominions and converts the old five into independent Realms:

*Appalachia (south of the Ohio, east of the Mississippi, west of the Appalachians and the Apalachicola River.)
*Lacustria (Great Lakes region, west of OTL Pennsylvania-Ohio border, north of the Missouri, north of the Platte to the Continental Divide)
*Oregon (old Oregon Terr. and Northern California as well as Alaska; basically everything west of the Continental Divide to the Mexican border, that is to say, a wobbly line running from San Francisco to Cheyenne in OTL)

There is also an independent Republic of Louisiana in my story but I haven't flushed out all the details yet. It does involve Jefferson however...

The new Realms establish their own Acts of Settlement--by removing primogeniture a split between America and Britain is inevitable, but will arise not through secession but by succession. Thus William IV is the last united king; his eldest daughter Alexandra becomes heir to the American throne while his only son George V becomes Prince of Wales.

Realizing the inevitable, Britain grants full independence to the other three Dominions, while holding on to the West Indies. The new Realms of Appalachia, Lacustria and Oregon adopt Acts of Settlement also removing primogeniture.

Princess Alexandra married Frederick-William II, King of Prussia, and bore William in 1821. At the death of King William IV in 1847 Alexandra became queen of America; however, she abdicated in favor of her son soon after. Thus was founded the Empire of North America (Ena) with William V Hohenzollern as King-Emperor. In practice the Ena was not an empire or even a federation, but a glorified defense pact with a common navy.

Unfortunately William V produced no children and with war raging in Europe the royal families are in disarray. No heir to the American throne is apparent, so Emperor William convened a Continental Congress (basically a Parliament of all Parliaments) which establised the Union of North America (Una) at his death. The eight Convenors (equivalent to Canadian governors) elected James Edward Stuart the first Regent of the Union.

And so on to this day...

As for flags I have some very good ideas:
(all flags are of a 1:2 aspect ratio, as is Britain)

Union of North America: Like our Canadian flag, only with blue strips representing the Pacific and Atlantic, and a large eight-pointed red star engulfing the white middle square.

Imperial/Regal Banner: Again like the above, but with purple strips, a gold middle square bearing a double-headed bald eagle holding lightning bolts in talons, crowned with two St. Edward's Crowns joined with the American Imperial State Crown by a scroll bearing the motto "A Mari Usque Ad Mare."

Canada: White flag with two red maple leaves joined naturally, and a red St. Edward's crown.

New England: Cross of St. George with green pine trees in all four quadrants.

Pennsylvania: Like the flag of Spain, only with a blue top stripe and a black bottom stripe.

Virginia: Red field with two square white saltires side-by side (XX).

Florida: Yellow, with a cross of St. George and a cross of Burgundy.

Appalachia: A white chevron separating blue sky and green earth, with a white horse on the green.

Lacustria: Four blue diamonds in series, on white.

Oregon: Divided horizontally in middle; on top four Redwood trees; on bottom a glorious sun setting on a wavy blue ocean.

Other flags:

Louisiana: 2:3 ratio, with three equal strips, like France, only with an ermine field in the chief (hoist) and the blue and red strips lying horizontally in the fly on top and bottom respectively.

Mexico: Spanish flag turned on its side, thus mimicking the Union 1:2:1 design.

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland: Unlike our Union Jack, the St. Patrick's Cross is not interlaced with St. Andrew's and merges wholly with St. George's. That's the butterfly effect for you! :D

I'll need some time to Photoshop these flags, unless somebody else will do it...

[Archangel Michael]

I've done the Pennsylvania flag for you.

[Archangel Michael]

Here your UK flag.

[Mike McGee]

can't see why would the saint patrick's cross would ever have been integrated with the saint george's cross? apart from the fact it looks horrendous, it reduces the status of both the english and scottish flags on the union jack. anyone explain?

[Yankoslavian]

Here your UK flag.
Not quite, unfortunately. The St. Patrick's Cross isn't supposed to be interlaced (broken in half) with St. Andrew's; rather it covers it whole. Thus the Union Jack looks like an eight-pointed star.

As for the equality of the St. George's and St. Patrick's crosses, Ireland is supposed to be constitutionally equal with Britain; hence the United Kingdom of Great Britain AND Ireland.

As for Pennsylvania; the flag needs to be at a 1:2 ratio like the Union Jack.

[Yankoslavian]

are flags 7 and 11 rejected Confederate Flags?
Actually it looks like the old Maori flag of (the United Tribes of) New Zealand.
http://www.zealand.org.nz/history.htm

[Archangel Michael]

How's this for the flag of Florida.

[Yankoslavian]

How's this for the flag of Florida.
I like it!

[Mike McGee]

This the UK flag you had in mind?

[Yankoslavian]

This the UK flag you had in mind?

You forgot to separate the red from the blue with white fimbriation. Heraldry, you know...

Dont forget the 1:2 aspect ratio and the navy blue!

[Archangel Michael]

How do this look?

[Archangel Michael]

And the flag of New England.

[Yankoslavian]

How do this look?
YES!!! It looks better than OTL Union Jack! :D

[Mike McGee]

This ATL union jack is absolutely terrible. :( still, to each their own.

Can anyone think up a decent flag for all the people of northern ireland to have in common. I've had a go at designing something based on both the old northern Ireland flag used now by unionists (white with 6 point star for 6 counties, crown and red hand of ulster) and the province of ulster flag mainly used by nationalists (yellow, no crown, red hand in shield rather than star).

* 4 shamrocks represent the 4 provinces of the island of ireland
* 2 st.patrick's crosses represent 2 irelands but with shared heritage
* red hand in shield rather than star, symbolising link between northern ireland and the remaining 3 counties of ulster that are part of the republic of ireland.
* 6 pointed star for the 6 counties of northern ireland
* royal and presidential standard of ireland within 6 pointed star, symbolising northern ireland's links with both the rest of ireland and it's place within the uk.

below my effort are the flags of northern ireland and Ulster respectively.

[Yankoslavian]

I like the ATL Union Jack better than ours because it's simpler and thus more accurate to reproduce. Too often people reverse the interlacing of the Andrew's and Patrick's crosses and make the flag look upside down, or don't reproduce it in the proper gyronny pattern. IOW it's hard to draw and remember accurately.

[Yankoslavian]

As for the Northern Ireland flag, it compromises too much and looks overwrought and, again, too complicated. Both sides will hate it. Rather like Good Friday, unfortunately. :(

[Yankoslavian]

Any more flags? :confused:

[Beck Reilly]

I have one for a TL I'm currently working on where the American Revolution never takes place, leading to Britain allowing the independence of the American Empire as gratitude for American help in the Napoleonic Wars:

[Yankoslavian]

I have one for a TL I'm currently working on where the American Revolution never takes place, leading to Britain allowing the independence of the American Empire as gratitude for American help in the Napoleonic Wars:
Hmmm. What was the motivation for the Americans to use the flag of the East India Company (the only flag with 13 stripes at the time)? And why five-pointed stars and not something that indicates British origin?

[Beck Reilly]

Okay. The history of the flag of the American Empire.

The First Flag of the Dominion (1767 - 1815) assumed the 13 stripes because there were 13 "American" colonies (obviously, the northern colonies of Nova Scotia and Quebec, as well as the southern colonies of Cuba, Jamaica, and Barbados, joined at a later date). Robert Clive, who was appointed the first Governor-General of the Dominion of America in 1767, was influential in adopting the "East India Company" design for the Dominion flag. The Dominion flag had the traditional British flag (St. George's and Andrew's Crosses) in a blue field in the upper left corner. I'll continue with the history of the First Flag of the American Empire in a following post.

[Beck Reilly]

Okay. The history of the flag of the American Empire.

The First (and only) Flag of the American Empire (1815 - ) assumed the original 13 stripes of the First Flag of the Dominion as a manner of tradition. Located in the upper-left hand corner was the national crest adopted by the American line of the Royal Family, which began with William Guelph, the British First Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh and continued with his daughter Sophia, who married William Bainbridge, a Naval Officer in the American Imperial Navy, in 1809. Sophia became the first Queen of the American Empire in 1815, and the name Bainbridge continues in the Royal Line to this day. The family adopted the crest, showing the stripes of the flag going downward with a blue strip at the top. The crest symbolized the American efforts which eventually won them the gratitude causing Britain to great the American Empire freedom following the Napoleonic Wars. The four stars, decided upon after months, supposedly represent the four regions of the American Empire: The North, East, South, and West. The crest replaced the British flag in the left-hand corner, leaving us with the current flag.

[David S Poepoe]

Walter, your flag is just missing something. Why not have the shield/crest atop a rampant eagle? Vexillologically it seems repediative, at least color wise. There should be something else along with the crest in the upper canton.

[Mike McGee]

Between 1603 and 1707 Scotland and England supposedly had seperate union jacks, the Scots version had the flags of the 2 countries interlaced. This would be the British flag from 1707 to at least 1801 in an ATL where one of the conditions demanded by the Scottish Parliament for passing the Treaty / Act of Union that created the United Kingdom of Great Britain was that the flag for the new state was the scottish version.

[Xen]

Walter, your flag is just missing something. Why not have the shield/crest atop a rampant eagle? Vexillologically it seems repediative, at least color wise. There should be something else along with the crest in the upper canton.

Its too much white, a white canton sitting on top of a white stripe doesn't work too well. What you may want to do is color the canton a dark blue with a white outline around the shield. That flag would be very sharp then.

[Beck Reilly]

What happened here?

[Beck Reilly]

The Eagle Flag:

[Martin McNamara]

How about future American flags? there's not much room left for new stars within the existing one, so if say ten or twenty new states joined, what would the new design be?

[Straha]

for your question regarding the flags

1 vinland is involved

2 scottish empire instead of british

[Diamond]

Here's the flag of the Federated Republics of America, a theocratic police state:

[wkwillis]

For Ireland, a celtic cross, the curvy one you see in folk art and celtic era tombs. Orange on Green.
For the USA, thirteen rows alternating a row of red stars with a row of white stars, on a field of blue, or,
For the USA, thirteen rows of blue stars on alternating stripes of red and white.

[tom]

Martin"
About a year ago I posted a link (now 404) to a proposed 100 star flag.
It looked pretty good...

[Yankoslavian]

Here is the flag of the Union of North America:

[Yankoslavian]

Here is the flag of the Empire of Mexico.

[Yankoslavian]

Here is the flag of New England:

[Yankoslavian]

Here is the flag of Pennsylvania:

[Yankoslavian]

Here is the flag of Virginia:

[Yankoslavian]

Here is the flag of Lacustria, the largest country of the Union: