The most original WI ever

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

After many months of hard work researching the most obscure corners of history as well as the entire AH.com archive, I have found it. This is guaranteed to be the most original and praiseworthy WI whose presence has ever blessed the AH.com Discussion Board, both New and Old. Are you ready? Here it is:

WI the CSA won the ACW?

I think this calls for at least one Turtledove.

[Martinus Paduei]

The level of originality astounds me.

[pa_dutch]

The Confederation of Southern Arabia could never win the Armenian Cold War.

[DuQuense]

The Confederation of Southern Arabia could never win the Armenian Cold War.

I'm not sure about that,
Sure Armenia controlled Mesopotamia and the Oil Fields in northern Arabia, But Greater Afganistan and its control of the Eastern Zorgos Mountains, Would have been no walkover,
And the Byzantine Rus, were just sitting back hoping to pick up some pieces.

[EvolvedSaurian]

The Byzantine Rus were too worried about the Keiven Rus and the Volga Rus to interfere in a southern war.

[Thande]

What if that business with the Armenians stopping that Ethiopian ship, you know the one carrying the two South Arab diplomats to Addis Ababa to plead their case, had blown up? Might the Empire of Ethiopia have intervened on the side of the South Arabs?

[Tetsu]

And let's not forget the piracy incident off the coast of Zanj... the Kerala League never heard the end of that one. Of course, the CSA's weapons were supplied by the KL all along.

[Thande]

And let's not forget the piracy incident off the coast of Zanj... the Kerala League never heard the end of that one. Of course, the CSA's weapons were supplied by the KL all along.
Unless of course you believe that conspiracy theory that that was organised by Afghans as part of their latest attempt to undermine the KL... :rolleyes: Aluminium foil hijab on, eh? ;)

[Tetsu]

Unless of course you believe that conspiracy theory that that was organised by Afghans as part of their latest attempt to undermine the KL... :rolleyes: Aluminium foil hijab on, eh? ;)

Nah, I don't place much stock in anything the Afghans say, except whenever they announce that they're stepping up their opium production. :rolleyes: They, along with the Deccan People's Combine and the Bengali Republic, were simply unhappy about the KL's position in the war- but the Kerali technological advantage made it difficult for anybody else on the subcontinent to do anything about it but bitch.

[Thande]

Nah, I don't place much stock in anything the Afghans say, except whenever they announce that they're stepping up their opium production. :rolleyes: They, along with the Deccan People's Combine and the Bengali Republic, were simply unhappy about the KL's position in the war- but the Kerali technological advantage made it difficult for anybody else on the subcontinent to do anything about it but bitch.
Now come on, you're starting to believe your own propaganda with that last part :rolleyes: Kerala's so-called technological advantage is so much hot air for the most part - a few flashy new weapons to intimidate its neighbours. But I bet that ironclad fleet would have been completely useless in effective combat if it ever came to the crunch. Still, we'll never know, I suppose...

[Thermopylae]

OMG U N00BS!!!!!11!!

T3H 1R0QU0IS C0NF3D3R4CY W0ULD T0T4LLY H4V3 K1KK3D UR BU770RZ!!!!11!!!

;)

[EvolvedSaurian]

OMG U N00BS!!!!!11!!

T3H 1R0QU0IS C0NF3D3R4CY W0ULD T0T4LLY H4V3 K1KK3D UR BU770RZ!!!!11!!!

;)

Iroquois? That band of nomadic mystics??

Speaking of opium, have you been to Afganistan recently?

[Flocculencio]

Now come on, you're starting to believe your own propaganda with that last part :rolleyes: Kerala's so-called technological advantage is so much hot air for the most part - a few flashy new weapons to intimidate its neighbours. But I bet that ironclad fleet would have been completely useless in effective combat if it ever came to the crunch. Still, we'll never know, I suppose...

Whether or not our Keralite ironclads were battleworthy is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that they were sufficiently intimidating to prevent the Bengali People's Republic ever considering an attempt to force the Palk Straits.

Which brings up another hoary old WI- all the noobs who try asking WI the Deccan People's Combine had tried to cross the Ghats into Tamilia and the Keralite League heartland in Malabar. Everyone seems to assume that if the heartland fell to the DPC, their Bengali allies would then be free to round Cape Comorin and strike up towards the Persian Gulf.

What they seem to forget is that the Keralite Ministry of War had actually planned for this eventuality- the files were declassified recently and make for some very interesting reading. It appears that the plan was for the League's Council of Peers to evacuate from Cochin and reconvene in Colombo to carry on the war from Ceylon. You can be sure that with the heartland occupied, the KL Ministry of Information would have had a field day: "Aryan invaders overrun Dravidian Homeland". The citizens of the KL states in Sri Vijaya would be queuing up at the recruiting depots. You'd probably even see even more volunteer contingents from Australia and South Africa- after all they weren't too slack at volunteering in OTL and they're still Dravidians even though they're not League Members.

[Glen]

Naw, its obviously WI Napoleon had beaten Wellington at Waterloo!

Women's Sports AH is sorely neglected.

If Josephine Napoleon had beaten Annette Wellington in the European Tennis Finals at Waterloo, the whole history of the sport would have been changed. Without the fame that went with winning the Cup, Wellington would have sunk back into obscurity and never gone on to head up the International Women's Tennis League or to introduce her radical reforms of the sport.

Sheesh....

[NapoleonXIV]

Naw, its obviously WI Napoleon had beaten Wellington at Waterloo!

Women's Sports AH is sorely neglected.

If Josephine Napoleon had beaten Annette Wellington in the European Tennis Finals at Waterloo, the whole history of the sport would have been changed. Without the fame that went with winning the Cup, Wellington would have sunk back into obscurity and never gone on to head up the International Women's Tennis League or to introduce her radical reforms of the sport.

Sheesh....

Yeh, they would probably never have started playing in the nude for one thing.

[Alcuin]

Yeh, they would probably never have started playing in the nude for one thing.

Now you're just being silly. That is so far fetched. I mean did you ever TRY to get a Burgundian woman to put clothes on? They just won't do it.

[Thande]

Guys, guys, let's stay on topic.

So, apart from the whole Ethiopian ship interception incident, what other PODs might have resulted in a South Arab victory? And do we necessarily require intervention by a Great Power on the South Arab side, or can they manage it alone?

[pa_dutch]

Well, what about Serimian's March to the Black Sea? The people of Georgia still remember him burning every city in his path. If he hadn't managed to capture the CSA port of Sa'vahna for the Armenians...

[Flocculencio]

Guys, guys, let's stay on topic.

So, apart from the whole Ethiopian ship interception incident, what other PODs might have resulted in a South Arab victory? And do we necessarily require intervention by a Great Power on the South Arab side, or can they manage it alone?

The trouble is actually getting one of the Great Powers to intervene- they all knew that once one stepped in, all the others would have to choose sides. It would be a repeat of the First Arabian War and the generals of the Powers had almost all started their careers as officers in that bloodbath. No one really wanted to see the slaughter repeated (which, incidentally, is yet another reason why the Bengalis and their Deccan vassals along with the Keralite League weren't too eager to get involved).

[Wendell]

Guys, guys, let's stay on topic.

So, apart from the whole Ethiopian ship interception incident, what other PODs might have resulted in a South Arab victory? And do we necessarily require intervention by a Great Power on the South Arab side, or can they manage it alone?
Well, having the French Empire on their side was certainly a plus for Armenia. Then again, only limited naval assistance was provided due to fear of escalation. Perhaps, if the Prussians had intervened for South Arabia...

[DAv]

Well, having the French Empire on their side was certainly a plus for Armenia. Then again, only limited naval assistance was provided due to fear of escalation. Perhaps, if the Prussians had intervened for South Arabia...

I can't imagine Britain would like that prospect too much. A weakened Armenia would have allowed Russia to dominate the region even further and perhaps gain a foothold in the Middle East.

[Alcuin]

Well, what about Serimian's March to the Black Sea? The people of Georgia still remember him burning every city in his path. If he hadn't managed to capture the CSA port of Sa'vahna for the Armenians...

We all know that Xenophon Serimian was a war criminal and a monster. It beggars belief that, with the atrocities at Sa'vahna, neither Russia nor even The Bulgarian Palatinate intervened on the side of South Arabia. I know they both objected to the Arabs' Copticism but surely, the Kenotic ideal DEMANDED some kind of intervention then.

And yet, as someone else has suggested, Britain would never have allowed Russia to intervene so I suppose the Bulgarians were afraid similar sanctions would be applied to them (or maybe just that they would suffer the same fate as South Arabia).

[DuQuense]

Well it never has been proven where that Areial torpedo attack that took out the Great Marib Dam came from. So many of the parties have first claimed and then denied the actrocity.

?But if the South Arabians hadn't lost 70% of their cropland??

[Max Sinister]

I'd love to see a map for that...

[fortyseven]

I continue to contend that the CSA only lost because of the great storm that summer that devastated the fleet and some of the ports but hardly affected the Armenians.

[Smaug]

Surely the Druse would have mediated in this matter, and brought about an agreement that all parties could adhere too. :P

[Johnnyreb]

I've always admired the expoits of Sheikh Abn ben Mosbi and his Arab Irregulars myself.

[Thande]

This idea deserves a bump.

[Tocomocho]

What? 28 messages and nobody has suggested yet that the Southern Arabias would buy/conquer Socotra and half of Abyssinia in 10 years?

[Haggis]

Everyone seems to forget that the CSA depended heavily on the Interior Slave Corps that the Sultans of Zanzibar supplied them with for practically free, if the Xhosaland bishops hadn't stopped their bickering and declared Impi Engcwele (Holy War) along with the Zulu on Zanzibar itself then the CSA would've had a strong numerical advantage.

Just saying, kill a few well placed church leaders and the CSA might've won.

[Gedca]

Everyone seems to forget that the CSA depended heavily on the Interior Slave Corps that the Sultans of Zanzibar supplied them with for practically free, if the Xhosaland bishops hadn't stopped their bickering and declared Impi Engcwele (Holy War) along with the Zulu on Zanzibar itself then the CSA would've had a strong numerical advantage.

Just saying, kill a few well placed church leaders and the CSA might've won.

True, but that wasn't well known at the time.

[NapoleonXIV]

I've always admired the expoits of Sheikh Abn ben Mosbi and his Arab Irregulars myself.

I still maintain the greatest military mind in the whole war was Nasir bin Frod Farouk, the man who made the camel cavalry, not even the legendary Rasaul Hei Lui really held a candle to him.

[Hailen]

Clearly you all are underestimating the crucial role that Armenian control over the Mediterranean trade routes played in this war. :rolleyes:

[Johnnyreb]

Whats all this stuff about the Keralan Empire and the Bengali Peoples Republic?

We're talking about original timelines here. You know, the Roman Empire survives for ever, Constantinople doesn't fall, things like that.

At least Glen mentioned Napoleon's victory at Waterloo, but was that really the cause of the Napoleonic dynasty surviving today, with Bertrand Napoleon as hereditary Secretary-General of the EU?

Come on, get a grip. Something someone's never thought of before.

[Hailen]

hehehehe.

satire is never dead with you, eh Johnny? :p

[Roberto]

I, in my all-knowning self-righteousness, have officially declared this compilation of similar and congruent illustration of thought referred to as a "thread" re-invigorated and awakened in a simple but awfully big-word filled action known as a BUMP.

'Sides, we all know that there's just NO way that the Caliph of Baghdad wouldn't join the war on the side of the Armenians if the CSA was on the verge of winning. Shees. ;)

[Ran Exilis]

I can't imagine Britain would like that prospect too much. A weakened Armenia would have allowed Russia to dominate the region even further and perhaps gain a foothold in the Middle East.

Nonsense! The Avar-Georgian Doublemonarchy would never allow the Russians to dominate the Middle East!

I mean, sure - the Avar-Georgian Empire has entered the war as an ally (or as some uneducated souls say: a vassal) of the Armenians, but that was only to make a stance againest the Byzantine Rus' for having the audacity to block off the Bosporus for Avar-Georgian ships! (a little consequence for the increasingly more friendly diplomatic relations between the Kievan Rus' and the Avar-Georgians...)

I admit, the Avar-Georgians are no match for the Byzantine Rus at sea, but they can damn well hold off any Russian attack on land!

And there's no way that the Armenians would have captured the CSA's Black Sea ports (Kherson and Trebizond) without Avar-Georgian support. Hell, even though the Armenians love to take credit for the famous Fall of Kherson, there was only one regiment of Armenian Mountaineers present at that battle, and 92% of the troops, including Samkaryo Shamsvilde, the general who led the operation, were Avar-Georgian!

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

None of this would ever come up since the Ottomans would defeat all such attempts with their airship armada.

Nonsense! The Avar-Georgian Doublemonarchy would never allow the Russians to dominate the Middle East!

I mean, sure - the Avar-Georgian Empire has entered the war as an ally (or as some uneducated souls say: a vassal) of the Armenians, but that was only to make a stance againest the Byzantine Rus' for having the audacity to block off the Bosporus for Avar-Georgian ships! (a little consequence for the increasingly more friendly diplomatic relations between the Kievan Rus' and the Avar-Georgians...)

I admit, the Avar-Georgians are no match for the Byzantine Rus at sea, but they can damn well hold off any Russian attack on land!

And there's no way that the Armenians would have captured the CSA's Black Sea ports (Kherson and Trebizond) without Avar-Georgian support. Hell, even though the Armenians love to take credit for the famous Fall of Kherson, there was only one regiment of Armenian Mountaineers present at that battle, and 92% of the troops, including Samkaryo Shamsvilde, the general who led the operation, were Avar-Georgian!

[Thande]

None of this would ever come up since the Ottomans would defeat all such attempts with their airship armada.
Huh, that little state in Anatolia thinks its experiments with attacking from the sky makes it unassailable, but it's the Germaniyids who hold Constantinople and sheer numbers would tell in the end.

[Berra]

Huh, that little state in Anatolia thinks its experiments with attacking from the sky makes it unassailable, but it's the Germaniyids who hold Constantinople and sheer numbers would tell in the end.

It's just a trick. Everybody knows that they focus on their submarines.