Superman - Red Son

[Adam Parsons]

I got this on a whim a few days ago, and was really impressed with the story. In this graphic novel, the infant Superman's pod comes down, not in the heart of Kansas, but in the warm wheat fields of the Ukraine. The story follows Superman as he eventually takes control of the USSR, and most of the world.

Rather than making the Man of Steel just evil, the author has chosen instead to warp the character slightly. He still wants to do good, he just goes at it differently.

Oh, and there's all sorts of bits of the Superman - DC Comics mythology thrown in too for good measure.

So, anyone else read it?

[David S Poepoe]

I've read it and thought it was very interesting. Kinda reminds me of the Saturday Night Live episode of WI Superman's space capsule had landed in Nazi Germany. The Elseworld editions of the various DC comics always interest me and I keep an eye out for them.

[Gamingboy]

I heard about that. I heard that the only way America remains america is by stealing Green Lantern rings.

[David S Poepoe]

I heard about that. I heard that the only way America remains america is by stealing Green Lantern rings.

Actually, if I remember right, they recover the Green Lantern ring from a spaceship salvaged near Roswell. It is the machinations of Lex Luthor that keep American free.

[G.Bone]

I have. A certain character in black with a bat shaped cowl is sort of ...on the bad side ....one would say.

[MerryPrankster]

G.Bone,

I think there are several comics where Batman fights Superman; usually it's when the latter goes off on a well-intended but generally bad spree of some kind (like in the movie "The Quest for Peace" where he steals all the nukes).

When did Superman land in the Ukraine? If he lived through Stalin's terror-famines, might he become fervently anti-Communist and, when the Nazis invade, become a very powerful Nazi collaborator? And, if he turns on the Nazis like many Ukrainian nationalists did, might he be able to defeat the Germans and Soviets and establish an independent Ukraine after WWII?

[Gamingboy]

What if he'd landed in a field near Berlin?

We'd need a marvelous plan.

[Adam Parsons]

G.Bone,

When did Superman land in the Ukraine? If he lived through Stalin's terror-famines, might he become fervently anti-Communist and, when the Nazis invade, become a very powerful Nazi collaborator? And, if he turns on the Nazis like many Ukrainian nationalists did, might he be able to defeat the Germans and Soviets and establish an independent Ukraine after WWII?

According to the story, he landed somewhere in the Ukraine in 1938 (or 1923, internal contradiction), and he claims that his powers didn't manifest until he was 12. (Say, how old was he when he landed in the traditional TL?)

The thing I wonder about is the personnel shifts of this USSR in 1953. In this story, the man running the NKVD is a man named Pytor Roslov, an illegitimate son of Stalin (!). What happened to Beria?

[G.Bone]

Well, in the comic it's implied that the guy running the NKVD is actually Stalin's son ( :confused: ) and that a raid that he does at a particular house,

SPOILERS
(highlight)

/creates the man later on to become Batman/

[Grimm Reaper]

I really haven't kept up, but I THINK that current Superman convention has it that it took years under the yellow sun(?) to develop his powers.

I am advised by a younger cousin that Clark Kent was actually a football player in high school, until his powers started to kick in.

[Torqumada]

I really haven't kept up, but I THINK that current Superman convention has it that it took years under the yellow sun(?) to develop his powers.

I am advised by a younger cousin that Clark Kent was actually a football player in high school, until his powers started to kick in.

That is exactly what has been happenig with Superman since 1986, when his origin and powers were revamped in the John Byrne mini-series Man of Steel that came after the colossul realingment of the DC universe under The Crisis on Infinite Earth's.

Torqumada

[Ivan Druzhkov]

I was reading a book discussing some of the common clichés of Soviet science fiction realized, and I’ve just realized that the world of Red Son seems to fit the basic pattern for the proposed “transition to communism” proposed by a number of Soviet sci-fi writers. In both Red Son and most Soviet works, the world is swiftly making the transition from capitalism to communism by the end of the 20th century. The transition itself is almost entirely peaceful and voluntary on the part of the capitalist countries, though the Soviet Union still remains friendly with all those that still cling to capitalism. In the Soviet Union itself, the system has produced a shower of material benefits for all citizens, while cities have evolved into showpieces of modern technology. Indeed, in many cases technology has succeeded in regulating the chaotic rhythms of nature, with weather control being almost a certainty. Even space travel is slowly growing more common, though perhaps less so in Red Son. However, the main difference between Red Son and most Soviet stories is the fact that the controls on Soviet society, most notably the KGB, remain in full force, and from what little we see of “life on the ground,” there are few signs that the new “socialist morality” has emerged. Given these similarities, I’m temped to say that Red Son was written partly as a satire of Soviet futurism (predictions about the future, not the school of art), but given the obscurity of the subject, I think it’s far more likely I’m just projecting my views onto Millar’s work. Still, I think it’s an interpretation worth exploring.

[Redem]

I really haven't kept up, but I THINK that current Superman convention has it that it took years under the yellow sun(?) to develop his powers.

I am advised by a younger cousin that Clark Kent was actually a football player in high school, until his powers started to kick in.

Well this more of a superman of it's own considering that he follow golden age pattern (for exemple he's super-smart)

[Adept Havelock]

I thought it was a fun read. Nice twist at the end.

[TimeStorm]

The thing I wonder about is the personnel shifts of this USSR in 1953. In this story, the man running the NKVD is a man named Pytor Roslov, an illegitimate son of Stalin (!). What happened to Beria?

Pytor Roslov was the Soviet version of Pete Ross, Clark's best friend.

[TimeStorm]

I was reading a book discussing some of the common clichés of Soviet science fiction realized, and I’ve just realized that the world of Red Son seems to fit the basic pattern for the proposed “transition to communism” proposed by a number of Soviet sci-fi writers. In both Red Son and most Soviet works, the world is swiftly making the transition from capitalism to communism by the end of the 20th century. The transition itself is almost entirely peaceful and voluntary on the part of the capitalist countries, though the Soviet Union still remains friendly with all those that still cling to capitalism. In the Soviet Union itself, the system has produced a shower of material benefits for all citizens, while cities have evolved into showpieces of modern technology. Indeed, in many cases technology has succeeded in regulating the chaotic rhythms of nature, with weather control being almost a certainty. Even space travel is slowly growing more common, though perhaps less so in Red Son. However, the main difference between Red Son and most Soviet stories is the fact that the controls on Soviet society, most notably the KGB, remain in full force, and from what little we see of “life on the ground,” there are few signs that the new “socialist morality” has emerged. Given these similarities, I’m temped to say that Red Son was written partly as a satire of Soviet futurism (predictions about the future, not the school of art), but given the obscurity of the subject, I think it’s far more likely I’m just projecting my views onto Millar’s work. Still, I think it’s an interpretation worth exploring.

It might looked like that, but it's pure coincidence. They wanted to show that Superman became like his biggest nemesis in Red Son, Brainiac, by putting Earth in a "bottle".

[Leo euler]

I was reading a book discussing some of the common clichés of Soviet science fiction realized, and I’ve just realized that the world of Red Son seems to fit the basic pattern for the proposed “transition to communism” proposed by a number of Soviet sci-fi writers. In both Red Son and most Soviet works, the world is swiftly making the transition from capitalism to communism by the end of the 20th century. The transition itself is almost entirely peaceful and voluntary on the part of the capitalist countries, though the Soviet Union still remains friendly with all those that still cling to capitalism. In the Soviet Union itself, the system has produced a shower of material benefits for all citizens, while cities have evolved into showpieces of modern technology. Indeed, in many cases technology has succeeded in regulating the chaotic rhythms of nature, with weather control being almost a certainty. Even space travel is slowly growing more common, though perhaps less so in Red Son. However, the main difference between Red Son and most Soviet stories is the fact that the controls on Soviet society, most notably the KGB, remain in full force, and from what little we see of “life on the ground,” there are few signs that the new “socialist morality” has emerged. Given these similarities, I’m temped to say that Red Son was written partly as a satire of Soviet futurism (predictions about the future, not the school of art), but given the obscurity of the subject, I think it’s far more likely I’m just projecting my views onto Millar’s work. Still, I think it’s an interpretation worth exploring.


I think your post is basically correct. I got the same impression when I read Red Son. I'm willing to bet that the irony of Communism actually working was what the author intended.

[Fenwick]

I think the way Lex Luthor was shown in Red Son is a very good twist upon the character. For we have to ask if Luthor is really evil. He creates weapons to fight Superman, has various schemes to bring him down, and all manner of things to stop communism but you cannot seem to hate him. After all he is not trying to take over the world he is trying to stop communism and the alien.

One of the best lines is "I'm sure if Superman had been born an American he and I would be the best of friends." I think that sums up Luthor's character well. He is smart, beyond anything we can understand as smart, and yet he hates Superman and is determined to stop him thanks to a clone of superman beating him at chess.

Also the note I think is an amazing way to have Superman stop. The strongest thing on the planet sees the truth is what stops him. So yes Superman is a communist, a tyrant, and much more but he is still a hero in that he stops when he knows he has done wrong.

[Ibn Warraq]

I remember this issue. I loved it and I agree that the twist on it was fantastic. I also liked how they had Superman justify such horrible things like the machines which "reeducated" people by saying he was making the world better.

[Redem]

I remember this issue. I loved it and I agree that the twist on it was fantastic. I also liked how they had Superman justify such horrible things like the machines which "reeducated" people by saying he was making the world better.

Well it's the old "Squadron Supreme" problem in which what happen when superheroes decide to take over the world

[Thande]

Well this more of a superman of it's own considering that he follow golden age pattern (for exemple he's super-smart)

Also, he's called "Kal-L", like Golden Age Superman, rather than Kal-El.

Disclaimer: I know very little about the greater DC-verse; but the clever recursion at the end of the book, that Superman turns out to be Luther's own descendant from the end of the world, when the Sun has become red, i.e. future Earth is Krypton - was that taken from an existing idea in mainstream DC, or was it something original?

[Adam]

What bugged me about the ending was the distinct lack of outer-solar system human colonies and the pressing need to send somebody back in time. They could, should actually, have been able to develop FTL between now and 1,000,000 A.D., especially with that crashed alien spaceship at Roswell available for study... and they just had to use the good ol' time travel method to make a paradox ending.

[Sovereign12]

Disclaimer: I know very little about the greater DC-verse; but the clever recursion at the end of the book, that Superman turns out to be Luther's own descendant from the end of the world, when the Sun has become red, i.e. future Earth is Krypton - was that taken from an existing idea in mainstream DC, or was it something original?

Something similar was done where Krypton was actually settled by humans in the future, but it ended up that the stardrive they used actually moved you backwards in time. The story wasn't canon though. I'd need to dig through my collection to find the orginal copy.

[ljofa]

What bugged me about the ending was the distinct lack of outer-solar system human colonies and the pressing need to send somebody back in time. They could, should actually, have been able to develop FTL between now and 1,000,000 A.D., especially with that crashed alien spaceship at Roswell available for study... and they just had to use the good ol' time travel method to make a paradox ending.

It doesn't really matter - I mean one of Lex Luthor's descendents was the first necronaut and journeyed into the afterlife. If you can cross from that realm and back, the colonisation of space doesn't seem particularly interesting.

[Adam]

It doesn't really matter - I mean one of Lex Luthor's descendents was the first necronaut and journeyed into the afterlife. If you can cross from that realm and back, the colonisation of space doesn't seem particularly interesting.

If one is that advanced then, what's the point of sending somebody back in time to save the future? Why not prevent the whole human-extinction-due-to-sun-loss/supernova by properly utilizing FTL (or for a realistic approach, STL) technologies to create colonies in systems beyond Sol?

[ljofa]

The traditional presentation of Krypton society is one that has been everywhere, done everything and is pretty tired of existence so this is somewhat in keeping with this theme, albeit loosely. The Krypton Council ignore Jor-El's warnings that the planet is becoming unstable, ostensibly because they want to end it all and ban the deployment of evacuation ships. Kal-El/Kal-L is sent back in time to an earlier version of Earth to 'conquer' it (although I presume not in a subjugation sense of the term).

[Umbral]

Also, he's called "Kal-L", like Golden Age Superman, rather than Kal-El.

Disclaimer: I know very little about the greater DC-verse; but the clever recursion at the end of the book, that Superman turns out to be Luther's own descendant from the end of the world, when the Sun has become red, i.e. future Earth is Krypton - was that taken from an existing idea in mainstream DC, or was it something original?

It was originally suggested to Millar by another writer. Moore or Bendis,mI think. Not sure. The writer later refered to it as "The best Superman idea I ever had, I gave to Millar"

[Ivan Druzhkov]

Incidentally, I know I’ve brought this topic up before, but I just have to ask: was I the only one who thought the outcome of the story was unnerving? From what I read, it seemed that all that really happened is that the world exchanged Superman’s hegemony for Luthor’s. There didn’t seem to be any real ideological differences between Luthor and Superman by the end of the story, and both their governments seemed to be autocratic technocracies dedicated to improving and maintaining the well-being of respective their societies. Heck, in order to rebuild the United States, Luthor actually accomplished the minor miracle of nationalizing the American economy and phasing out multiparty democracy. It seemed to me that the whole message of the story was that people will fight tooth and nail against someone trying to force perfection upon them, but will gladly enslave themselves of their own free will at the drop of a hat.

Thoughts?