Civil War ISOT

[tom]

On January 17, 1862 all the states that were NOT one of the USA or CSA states appear as they "are" on January 17, 2004. How is the Civil War affected? How about other events and characteristics in the following years

[Beck Reilly]

Most of the midwest and northwest appears. The twenty some-odd states tell the CW Americans to stop the riduculousness. If necessary, the OT states use their military and impress a border along Missouri-Kentucky-Maryland line so the fighting stops. Negotiations begin and the entire US is healed with limited slavery allowed for 15 years. The US, with its 21st century might, is the most powerful nation in the world, instantly. There are even the naval forces of Washington state giving the US a naval edge.

[Straha]

why obseess of ISOTs when yu can see my different spacerace threads?

[robertp6165]

Most of the midwest and northwest appears. The twenty some-odd states tell the CW Americans to stop the riduculousness..

Actually, it would be less than that. At the most generous, the States which would be affected would be....Nebraska, North and South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Washington, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Alaska and Hawaii...14 States. Colorado, Arizona, and New Mexico might not be ISOT because all three were directly involved militarily in the war in January 1862. And Nevada might also not be, because it was admitted to the Union and was a Union State during the war. If that is the case, you have ten states being ISOT. All the other States had been admitted to the Union and had taken sides in the war prior to the January 1862 date.


If necessary, the OT states use their military and impress a border along Missouri-Kentucky-Maryland line so the fighting stops. Negotiations begin and the entire US is healed with limited slavery allowed for 15 years. The US, with its 21st century might, is the most powerful nation in the world, instantly. There are even the naval forces of Washington state giving the US a naval edge.

The 10-14 States which are going to be ISOT have a relatively small population and their military potential is not as great as you are thinking. Now of course they do have some major advantages...their National Guards, although small, will be modern in equipment. They do have a good portion of the Air Force (which loves to put it's bases in God-forsaken places, which abound in these States...LOL). Hawaii has the U.S. Pacific fleet base at Pearl Harbor, and there are some naval facilities in Puget Sound, so these are ISOT plus whatever ships happened to be in port were ISOT from there. The missile silos in the great plains are ISOT along with those States. But they will have some disadvantages, too. Most of the modern military production facilities, or a good portion, anyway, are in States which are not ISOT. So they will have a problem with re-supply. Although they get Bill Gates and Microsoft, they don't get Silicon Valley. So maintaining the computers on which so much of the modern military depends is going to be an issue (if Arizona gets ISOT, they do have an Intel plant here, which might alleviate the problem). But in the short term, they should at the very least be able to give a demonstration nuclear blast somewhere and issue an ultimatum based on that to bring the two sides to the negotiating table.

[tom]

Assume it's the 14 states.

[Archangel Michael]

Offut Airbase an SAC's maine command center will come along, giving the missile silos nexcesary command centers.

[wkwillis]

A ripsilver is an ultralight aircraft with minimal cost and performance. It would absolutely dominate the air against a Confederate army, bombing at will. Strafing is not a reasonable use, but it isn't necessary either. You can fly slowly in a straight line over a target.
Deer rifles are so superior to Civil war weapons that there is no comparison. They can fire farther, faster, and more accurately than the crud the Confederacy had. You can also fire prone instead of standing up to reload.
Radios give you a bigger advantage than both rifles and ripsilvers combined. The Union took two weeks to notice that the Confederate army was on it's way to Gettysburg. With radios they have no chance of escaping defeat in detail, pretty much on whatever terms the Union wants to fight.
Railroad construction was limited by rail cost. The rail on abandoned spurs in modern day areas would hugely increase the Union capability to move troops and supplies.
Los Angeles could have butchered the Confederacy as quickly as they could move. For one thing, Los Angeles has a bigger population than the Confederacy had, not even counting the two thirds of the Confederate population that hated the Confederate government.
They probably wouldn't have simply killed all the slave owners. Maybe twenty years at hard labor for the ones that were allowed to surrender and that hadn't raped or murdered their slaves. Those would just have been hung after trial by their former slaves, who would, of course, have dominated the postwar governments since the slave owning criminals would not have voting rights.

[DuQuense]

U Also get the Naval graveyard on the Columbia River lots of WW2 Era ships.
If you get Arizonia U Get the Airplane Graveyard lots of WW2 era planes.

[Raymann]

I added it up, 30.56 million people live in the ISOT'ed states as of the middle of '03. In 1861 the US had about 31 million people minus those lost in the territories (i guess half a million).

So however this thing ends up, the capital is going to Denver and the world will be cowering to the US not only for its tech but for the sheer number of people we have.

(I should use the census site more, I like the navigation)

[Raymann]

and oh yeah, about 3% are black with another 11% asian, indian, hispanic, and other. Most natural born and loyal but a lot are recent immigrants who might see oppertunity elsewhere...

[Brilliantlight]

I added it up, 30.56 million people live in the ISOT'ed states as of the middle of '03. In 1861 the US had about 31 million people minus those lost in the territories (i guess half a million).

So however this thing ends up, the capital is going to Denver and the world will be cowering to the US not only for its tech but for the sheer number of people we have.

(I should use the census site more, I like the navigation)

No kidding, the South has no chance at all. Hell, the entire world would no chance at all against the American leviathon.

[Brilliantlight]

Most of the midwest and northwest appears. The twenty some-odd states tell the CW Americans to stop the riduculousness. If necessary, the OT states use their military and impress a border along Missouri-Kentucky-Maryland line so the fighting stops. Negotiations begin and the entire US is healed with limited slavery allowed for 15 years. The US, with its 21st century might, is the most powerful nation in the world, instantly. There are even the naval forces of Washington state giving the US a naval edge.

Why would the people of Washington state (for example) put up with slavery existing 15 years? The military power is crushing anything the Confederates could dream of coming up with. The South could have a combined Lee, Alaxander the Great and George Patton as general and it would still get crushed. All of those states have National Guard units with armored cars at the very least. What in God's name could the South do against an M1 tank?

[General_Paul]

Hey,

Gotta show some Washington State pride here! Ha, sorry. No, we wouldn't put up with slavery for one MINUTE none the less, for 15 years. Ft. Meyers, Whidbey Island Naval base. NAS Whidbey, Banger Submarine pens... even WASHINGTON STATE alone could crush the confederacy. We've got enough nat'l guard strationed here to take them out. Wait... just wondering.. is this Pre-9/11, or post? Because, post, a lot of our national guard forces are oversees serving... not so good. But, the boeing plants alone could suppliment. Microsoft HQ has some limited comp facilities around here, plus, the I-5 corridor could be extended down into oregon, and from there, california. Our rail lines could be connected. Anywas. East of the mountains, we've got the Hanford nuclear reservation. We've got air bases galore here, and a handful of aircraft carriers call this place home. Not to count the hundreds of support vessels, the nuclear launch facilities all over eastern washington, SeTac Internaitonal Airport, it'd be a bloodbath for the confederates. With the other 13 states... the confederates have NO cvhance of survival. It'd be a pitiful sight to see an old decommissioned battleship making a run at the CSS alabama or something... in fact, it'd be downright funny. (Puget sound is known for its scrapping ability, more ships scrapped here then anywhere else along the west coast.)

[Brilliantlight]

Hey,

Gotta show some Washington State pride here! Ha, sorry. No, we wouldn't put up with slavery for one MINUTE none the less, for 15 years. Ft. Meyers, Whidbey Island Naval base. NAS Whidbey, Banger Submarine pens... even WASHINGTON STATE alone could crush the confederacy. We've got enough nat'l guard strationed here to take them out. Wait... just wondering.. is this Pre-9/11, or post? Because, post, a lot of our national guard forces are oversees serving... not so good. But, the boeing plants alone could suppliment. Microsoft HQ has some limited comp facilities around here, plus, the I-5 corridor could be extended down into oregon, and from there, california. Our rail lines could be connected. Anywas. East of the mountains, we've got the Hanford nuclear reservation. We've got air bases galore here, and a handful of aircraft carriers call this place home. Not to count the hundreds of support vessels, the nuclear launch facilities all over eastern washington, SeTac Internaitonal Airport, it'd be a bloodbath for the confederates. With the other 13 states... the confederates have NO cvhance of survival. It'd be a pitiful sight to see an old decommissioned battleship making a run at the CSS alabama or something... in fact, it'd be downright funny. (Puget sound is known for its scrapping ability, more ships scrapped here then anywhere else along the west coast.)

What would you need a BB for? A single Perry class frigate could wipe out the entire Southern navy if it has the logistical support!