A Map Challenge

[Shadow Knight]

First off I am not radical_neutaral (as I'd like to think you'd know from my grammar and map skills).
Second, due to a serious bout of writer's block and not getting any work on my TL done I decided to play around with some maps.

So here is one circa 100 BC:

[Arachnid]

Simple second and third Punic wars either didn't happen or were less conclusive. Roman expansion procedes nearly on schedule and Carthage holds onto what it had after the first Punic War.

[Shadow Knight]

Simple second and third Punic wars either didn't happen or were less conclusive. Roman expansion procedes nearly on schedule and Carthage holds onto what it had after the first Punic War.

Not bad. Anyone else?

[Glen]

Either a Carthage/Roman cold war or they've agreed to a split in spheres of influence.

[Alcuin]

Either a Carthage/Roman cold war or they've agreed to a split in spheres of influence.

The former seems much more likely. If it had a reliable peace with Carthage, Rome would expand into Gaul and Asia Minor. (And I suspect Carthage would have expanded along the African coast until they found the lands beyond the Sahara, but that wouldn't show on the map).

[The Sandman]

I suppose that another useful question would be what the Carthaginians are up to, if anything, in Cyrenaica - in this situation, they might be following the Roman expansion towards the east with a similar expansion of their own.

I also suppose that the Romans might end up fighting the Parthians more often, in lieu of expanding against the Carthaginians. Either that or they locate the Rhine and head north from there, expanding into Germany.

[Wendell]

Can we speculate on how these areas might grow?

[Shadow Knight]

Can we speculate on how these areas might grow?

Sure go whole hog.

As for Cyrenaica the Ptolemies control over to it but the Carthaginians have a border that eventually touches the Ptolemaic Kingdom somewhere east around where modern Benghazi would be located.

[G.Bone]

a thought...

[Smaug]

Either a Carthage/Roman cold war or they've agreed to a split in spheres of influence.

I like this...Rome recognizes Carthage's abilities as a trading Empire. More to be made in the long run by befriending it, than squashing it, in a fit/or fits, of jealousy. Not to mention a maritime ally. Things might be very different.......

[Darkest]

Very interesting. Good job with the map. I like the idea of Carthage and Rome spreading out hand-in-hand.

Carthaginian Britannia? Eh, eh?

[Shadow Knight]

I like this...Rome recognizes Carthage's abilities as a trading Empire. More to be made in the long run by befriending it, than squashing it, in a fit/or fits, of jealousy. Not to mention a maritime ally. Things might be very different.......

Well I figured the 2nd Punic war ended in kind of a stalemate and as before and would continue on they traded heavily with Rome (there is much archealogical evidence that they two were trading partners) and at some point someone realized that another war with them would cripple the economy.

[Nicole]

I don't see the Pontic Empire lasting too long- it's squeezed between the larger Parthian and Roman Empires... I suppose I see it divided up between a Parthian-supported Armenia and the rump Pontus falling into the Roman sphere.

[MerryPrankster]

Carthaginian Britannia? Eh, eh?

The Romans might start getting paranoid about being flanked if the Carthaginians set up colonies there.

Perhaps some Roman politician slips arms, training, and "volunteers" to anti-Cartho Britons. It could be the Late Republican version of Iran-Contra once it comes out.

[Peter Cowan]

I suppose a suitable POD would be the early death of Hannibal.

I'm more intrigued about how Rome would develop in this scenario. Firstly, Spain was a rich province, the southern part especially - not having half of it could limit Rome considerably. Secondly, Rome's involvement with Greece came in part as a result of Macedonia allying with Carthage. It was a bit like the Brer Rabbit tar baby story, one entanglement lead to another. I suppose, one could imagine Macedonia declaring war on Rome. On the other hand, not having all those foreign wars and many of the subsequent social problems, might reduce some of the tensions that led to the fall of the Republic. So the result would be a smaller but more cohesive state.