1800: A TL

[Nicksplace27]

OK, so I've finally started a TL that should prove to be pretty interesting so without further ado... Here is the 1800: A TL.

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Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
June 8th 1791

Alexander Hamilton walked through the dark streets of Philadelphia, with street lamps illuminating his path. That morning, he had spoken with a lovely young woman named Maria Reynolds. She told him that her husband had abandoned her and her daughter. She needed money to get transport to New York City where her family was living. At the time she spoke to him, she seemed sincere. He felt compassion for her and felt as though he could help and turn her life around. But as he walked through the silent streets, he began to think of how attractive she was. She did seem smitten while they were speaking and maybe they could pursue romantic interests, he thought. Her husband has abandoned her and she was in need of a manly figure in her life to take care of her.

But as he continued on he thought about the long term of the situation and shook the temporary infatuation out of his head. This woman was married and that could not change. But most importantly, she was 10 years his junior. That would create a scandal beyond his control and could ruin his life. He couldn’t let this happen. He settled on it, if she tried to be smitten with him, he would not agree and would give her the money and leave.

After a few more minutes of walking, he reached Maria’s residence. He knocked on the door and after a few moments of waiting Maria opened the door. “Oh… hello Alexander.” She said as she opened the door.

“Hello, Maria. I have the money you requested to return you and your daughter to New York.” Hamilton replied kind of hesitantly, not knowing how she would respond.

“Well, why don’t you come in and stay awhile?” She said, obviously flirting with him. That one sentence confirmed his worst fears. He knew how attractive she was and how much she wanted him. His immediate reaction would be to go inside, but after thinking it over he could not. He had too high of a reputation to pursue this immoral encounter.

“No I cannot come in. I cannot do this and pursue this with you. You are first and foremost, married and you are also a young girl and I am an old man. This just won’t be able to work.” He told her. Then, he gave her the money and then quickly walked away.

Maria was obviously shocked. “Wait!” She yelled to him as he began to disappear into the darkness. As she tried to chase him, he was already too far away. A few blocks away, Alexander Hamilton was quickly retreating to his Hotel. He had successfully evaded a very harrowing situation. He would make sure that he would never get involved with that woman ever again.



Footnotes: In OTL, that night began a three year affair between Maria Reynolds and Alexander Hamilton, one which eventually would be leaked (By none other than Aaron Burr) to Washington and his colleagues in the highest levels of government. Eventually, he had to make a public admittance of the affair to the entire Nation, destroying his reputation as a political figure and destroyed his chances of advancing up the political Ladder. In TTL, of course this affair is ended before it is started.

[Nicksplace27]

An excerpt from “The Election of 1800: Hamilton’s Rise to Power”
By James W. Reese
New York City, United States of America
(c) Wessington Publishing Company: New York City, 1991. Used with Permission.

… By 1799, John Adams was one of the most unpopular political figures of his time. His Alien and Sedition Acts were being criticized by most of the populace. Many felt it destroyed the idea of free speech, which was law under the First Amendment. Many political figures at the time were making negative statements toward Adams. With the death of Adam’s biggest supporters (President Washington), He no longer had any support in both his party and elsewhere. One man, though really finished off any chance that Adams had of retaining the presidency. Alexander Hamilton, after successfully completing his tenure as Secretary of Treasury under Washington, returned to New York and retired. By 1799, Hamilton saw it fit to reenter into politics and began to denounce the current president for his terrible policies. Being the founder of the Federalist Party himself, his disapproval carried a lot of weight politically for the entire country. By early 1800, Adams was forced to step down as a presidential candidate. Hamilton was ready to take his place as presidential candidate…

…After Hamilton secured the support of much of his New England allies, he attempted to become more moderate and secured support with the Southern Federalists. Jefferson ran an incredibly negative campaign, but could not dig up anything personal and simply could not find a niche in his issues. Hamilton ran a great and clean campaign from the beginning. Hamilton was also an amazing public speaker and held large gatherings where he spoke to the people and promised to be a ‘benevolent’ ruler. But Jefferson could not do the same because he had a lisp.

When Election Day came around, 72 voters gave their votes to Hamilton and 56 voters gave their votes to Jefferson. But quickly a new problem was becoming apparent. Charles Pinckney, Hamilton’s running mate began to appear as a full presidential candidate. Although Pinckney was defeated quickly, this opened up a very big flaw in the Constitution that President-elect Hamilton vowed his would correct.

Hamilton was the first president to win a closely contested race and his tenure, as president would be the most influential and would change the role of a president forever….

[Nicksplace27]

Comments?
Ideas?
Insults?:p
Anything?

[Superdude]

I like it-

I never understood why so many people don't like Hamilton.

[Wendell]

This is good so far.

[Wendell]

I like it-

I never understood why so many people don't like Hamilton.
I think they saw him as an opportunistic Tory, and not as someone trying to build a viable, if somewhat conservative, country.

[Faeelin]

The idea that men like Thomas Jefferson can be called liberal compared to Hamilton is, hmm, cute.

Backwards, perhaps.

I look foward to seeing what our president does.

[mikegold]

It's a great idea.

BUT

Hamilton was born in the British West Indies, not the United States, and thus was constitutionally ineligible for office.

Of course, your POD could be changing the constitution. But I wouldn't be surprised if that gave a real foreigner a chance at the presidency... the Marquis de Lafayette.

[Nicksplace27]

It's a great idea.

BUT

Hamilton was born in the British West Indies, not the United States, and thus was constitutionally ineligible for office.

Of course, your POD could be changing the constitution. But I wouldn't be surprised if that gave a real foreigner a chance at the presidency... the Marquis de Lafayette.

I know that

BUT

Any person who considered themselves American and was a citizen at the formation of the country (1783) was 'grandfathered' in.

[Nicksplace27]

Washington, District of Colombia
January 22nd 1800

Alexander Hamilton sat down in his roomy temporary residence after a very long day of debate and drawing up his choices for cabinet. He tried to mix his cabinet with moderates that would be strong and provide their insight. This includes James Madison, John Jay, John Marshall and others who although had many different backgrounds, could aid him in his 4 year tenure. As he looked out at the streets of Washington and at the country he would soon be taking over, he began to ponder its future among nations. His friend and a man he looked up to greatly, George Washington said, “Do not become entangled in foreign wars…” But he has passed away and unfortunately Napoleon was getting more and more involved in American politics. He had even made plans to reclaim Louisiana and Frances reentry into the Americas greatly alarmed not only him but also many in his Federalist Party.

Foreign policy was not the only problem plaguing the young United States. He had his fair share of enemies including his former opponent, Thomas Jefferson; Aaron Burr, his long time rival and bitter for thwarting his election to the Governor of New York just three months ago; and Albert Gallatin, a rival in his economic policies. But he was sure he would be able to work with them and create a nation envisioned by his great mentor George Washington. With that thought, he began writing his inaugural speech.

The next day…

“…Although our country is deeply divided I envision a nation set forth by the great minds who have so recently perished from this earth. I plan to shape a country that Benjamin Franklin and George Washington would want it to be. The United States may be greatly separated in ideals, but we are united in heart.”

With that sentence, Alexander Hamilton, on that bright January day began his peaceful tenure of office. But that peace would last only for a few moments, because out of the crowd several shots rang out and hit thier target…

[danwild6]

Oh come on man!!!:eek: Your not just going to put the guy into office to shoot him.:mad:

[simonbp]

I know that

BUT

Any person who considered themselves American and was a citizen at the formation of the country (1783) was 'grandfathered' in.

In fact, I think that clause (in Article II, Section 1) which stated that any "citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution" could run, was specifically put in there for Hamilton...

Simon ;)

[DuQuense]

Nit picks

President takes over in March, not January. As most people didn't activly Campaign, Have to have time to get to New York, to take Office.

No Running Mate, As Jefferson got the Second highest vote Count -Jefferson would be Vice President.

[Nicksplace27]

Nit picks

President takes over in March, not January. As most people didn't activly Campaign, Have to have time to get to New York, to take Office.

No Running Mate, As Jefferson got the Second highest vote Count -Jefferson would be Vice President.

Ok, I'll be sure to change that to march.

But, Charles Cotesworth Pckney got the same amount of electoral votes as Hamilton. In OTL 1800, Burr got the same amount as Jefferson. It would go the same way.

[Nicksplace27]

Oh come on man!!!:eek: Your not just going to put the guy into office to shoot him.:mad:

Well, Thats what you think...

[DuQuense]

Well if You are having Hamilton and Pickney getting the same number of Votes-

Then it goes to Congress with the Senate picking a VP. and the House picking the President.
And no Traditions [after all only the Third election] to Guide the Choice. They could Pick who-so ever they want, even a non Canidate.

[Wendell]

Well if You are having Hamilton and Pickney getting the same number of Votes-

Then it goes to Congress with the Senate picking a VP. and the House picking the President.
And no Traditions [after all only the Third election] to Guide the Choice. They could Pick who-so ever they want, even a non Canidate.
I thought that they would have to pick an actual candidate...

[Nicksplace27]

March 11th 1801
Somewhere in Northern Tennessee

Aaron Burr, Albert Gallatin, James Wilkinson and Thomas Jefferson all sat outside near their parked caravan as the sun slowly set in their wooded hideout. They were all not in the best mood as they discussed the recent events.

“What do you mean, they missed?” He asked rhetorically. He was very angry. He had hired the best to off Hamilton and his Cabinet as he made the opening speech of his presidency. Then Jefferson would become President and his ideals along with Gallatin’s would be realized. But now with the entire USA looking for them, he had to put his backup plan into place.

“Our man shot Hamilton in the leg but he has since recovered from his wounds. On the bright side, He did kill John Jay and several other members of his cabinet. It is very unfortunate though that his main target was not taken out.” Gallatin said, just as frustrated and angry as he was. “The worst part though is that the man was detained and they could trace it back to us!” Jefferson looked bewildered. He had no idea it would go this far and he had the most reputation to lose among them.

“Which is why we won’t be in America for much longer. Wilkinson is out getting us transport across the Mississippi. Soon the French will have Louisiana and we will be in safe lands once again.” Burr replied, trying to cheer the camp up. All of his friends having their dreams shattered made him preposterously angry and frankly he was going to take failure no longer. “We may be joined soon by some of our brethren from the south. Before long, many may cross the Mississippi…”

“Why is that?” Jefferson said, not catching on immediately. “Oh you mean…” He was interrupted as Wilkinson walked into their little camp.

“Well, we are going to have to pack up and leave now. The next boat leaves in a few hours. If we hurry, we can be out of the US within the hour.” Wilkinson said as he began to repack his things. “Well, come on!” With that everyone began to pack each of his things. Gallatin, Burr, Jefferson and Wilkinson would have to say goodbye to America forever as they crossed the Mississippi that fateful day…

[Nicksplace27]

Comments?
Ideas?
Questions?

[The Sandman]

This just doesn't seem characteristic of Jefferson. Burr was opportunistic enough and stupid enough to try it, but Jefferson, I think, was more patient and rational. He would have tried to build up his party to oppose Hamilton and then made another run for the Presidency in 1804.

[Nicksplace27]

This just doesn't seem characteristic of Jefferson. Burr was opportunistic enough and stupid enough to try it, but Jefferson, I think, was more patient and rational. He would have tried to build up his party to oppose Hamilton and then made another run for the Presidency in 1804.

It not. Jefferson has lost twice now and he was almost tricked into doing it. He was so close to the presidency, he could almost taste it. Burr gave him an offer and he took not thinking about what would happen longterm. Much like having an affair with a younger woman... You will see how much Jefferson regrets it in future posts.

[DuQuense]

Then it goes to Congress with the Senate picking a VP. and the House picking the President.
And no Traditions [after all only the Third election] to Guide the Choice. They could Pick who-so ever they want, even a non Canidate.

I thought that they would have to pick an actual candidate...
The Consitution Doesn't say, Today there is tradition, and law, that would guide us. But this is early years, the Government and people are still working out the Ways and Means.

?Was there the Alien and Sedition Acts, in TTL?

[Nicksplace27]

The Consitution Doesn't say, Today there is tradition, and law, that would guide us. But this is early years, the Government and people are still working out the Ways and Means.

?Was there the Alien and Sedition Acts, in TTL?

There was and if you read the beginning posts, you will see that was why Adams got kicked out.

[Wendell]

The Consitution Doesn't say, Today there is tradition, and law, that would guide us. But this is early years, the Government and people are still working out the Ways and Means.

?Was there the Alien and Sedition Acts, in TTL?
How much later were such laws enacted then?

[Nicksplace27]

An excerpt from the Hartford Courant
April 13th, 1801
Used with Permission

Today, President Hamilton, after discussing the fates of the perpetrators of the assassination attempt, openly spoke of his plans to eventually abolish slavery within the next ten years [1]. He outlined a plan to free the Negroes, provide reparations for the plantation owners, and began to speak to Britain about transferring some of the free Negroes to a set out area just north of the free slave colony of Sierra Leone [2]. Although some plantations owners will accept this deal, many will not and will plan to move to the Spanish possessions of Florida or New Spain. Many Negroes will move to this new US possession in West Africa, as well as moving north to the free states…

[1] Hamilton, growing up in Kitts and St. Nevis, truly saw the mean and degrading effects of slavery. He was one of the strongest Abolitionists of his time and he tried pushing the early abolition of slavery in OTL as well, but the duel ended his efforts. As president, he would have the power to implement his policies.

[2] Sierra Leone began as a colony for freed slaves in 1795 and helped the British Empire abolish slavery by 1833. This is sped up with the USA still working closely with them much earlier.

[Wendell]

An excerpt from the Hartford Courant
April 13th, 1801
Used with Permission

Today, President Hamilton, after discussing the fates of the perpetrators of the assassination attempt, openly spoke of his plans to eventually abolish slavery within the next ten years [1]. He outlined a plan to free the Negroes, provide reparations for the plantation owners, and began to speak to Britain about transferring some of the free Negroes to a set out area just north of the free slave colony of Sierra Leone [2]. Although some plantations owners will accept this deal, many will not and will plan to move to the Spanish possessions of Florida or New Spain. Many Negroes will move to this new US possession in West Africa, as well as moving north to the free states…

[1] Hamilton, growing up in Kitts and St. Nevis, truly saw the mean and degrading effects of slavery. He was one of the strongest Abolitionists of his time and he tried pushing the early abolition of slavery in OTL as well, but the duel ended his efforts. As president, he would have the power to implement his policies.

[2] Sierra Leone began as a colony for freed slaves in 1795 and helped the British Empire abolish slavery by 1833. This is sped up with the USA still working closely with them much earlier.
And what will become of Liberia?

[Nicksplace27]

And what will become of Liberia?

Oh I have plans for Liberia. The USA will have a very different approach to it than in OTL.

[Cloudy Vortex]

[1] Hamilton, growing up in Kitts and St. Nevis, truly saw the mean and degrading effects of slavery. He was one of the strongest Abolitionists of his time and he tried pushing the early abolition of slavery in OTL as well, but the duel ended his efforts. As president, he would have the power to implement his policies.

Learn something new everyday. I wonder if with a Hamilton instead of Jefferson the US is better accustomed to stronger government. Alexander and his ideas seemed to be running against history for the most part, even though the were wiser than those of his adversaries. It's what you get for being ahead of your time. 'Course, Tommy and his buds better watch out. Hamilton was both a Anglophile and a Francophobe (or at least a Napoleonophobe). Forget buying Louisiana...

[Nicksplace27]

Learn something new everyday. I wonder if with a Hamilton instead of Jefferson the US is better accustomed to stronger government. Alexander and his ideas seemed to be running against history for the most part, even though the were wiser than those of his adversaries. It's what you get for being ahead of your time. 'Course, Tommy and his buds better watch out. Hamilton was both a Anglophile and a Francophobe (or at least a Napoleonophobe). Forget buying Louisiana...

Ding Ding! very good, you seemed to have gotten what Hamilton is about!

[Cloudy Vortex]

The problem (depending on one's point of view) is that whenever the Federal government is strengthened, it finds it can enlarge and support the military to an extent it never considered before. Stronger armies and navies tend to make the states that control them... confident. Since a more Hamiltonian US is going to buddy up with the UK sooner than the OTL US, all this is going to really suck for Mexico.

[Nicksplace27]

The problem (depending on one's point of view) is that whenever the Federal government is strengthened, it finds it can enlarge and support the military to an extent it never considered before. Stronger armies and navies tend to make the states that control them... confident. Since a more Hamiltonian US is going to buddy up with the UK sooner than the OTL US, all this is going to really suck for Mexico.

To be honest it won't affect Mexico much at all. Hamilton and the Federalists found absoutly no use for the entire Louisiana Territory and would actually be much more inclined to strengthening the navy. but more interesting things are bound to happen.

[Nicksplace27]

April 19th, 1801
St. Augustine, Spanish Florida (Disputed)

Domitian was sweating as he moved several large bricks to set on top of the foundation of this new plantation home. It was an incredibly hot day and the high noon sun beat down in this hot Floridian day and it was only going to get worse as summer began to move in. He, along with hundreds of other slaves, was also going to stay there for a very long time. This was very different than Wilmington, North Carolina. But with President Hamilton and many federal troops to enforce the ‘free your slaves or leave’ rule, they were not returning. When federal troops came to Domtian’s masters home, he opted to leave along with hundreds of thousands of other slave owners. Many are immigrating to St. Augustine, Pensacola, New Orleans as well as the marshlands of southern Florida. Some are even moving to Havana. Many of the slaves escaped while moving south but Domitian was not as lucky as the others were. He was now in East Florida, where slavery was acceptable.

“Get to work!” His master yelled as Domitian and his fellow slaves continued to build the Plantations main residence. They continued to sweat as the backbreaking work began to wear down on him. He would have to keep working though. If he stopped, his master would punish him severely by whipping. He envied the house slaves, who just made the beds and served the drinks while he was out building and working in the fields. But that was what he got for being an uneducated Negro. He wouldn’t even think about rising up though. Too much lynching of his brethren had taught him by example that was not an option.

“Ok! A fifteen minute break and then back to work!” His master yelled at Domitian and the rest of the slaves building. As he walked past his master, he saw he was talking to fellow friend of his. He overheard some of the conversation…

“Yes, I hear that Jefferson is coming down here to speak to new arrivals tomorrow. It appears that with Burr ordering the shooting, he could’ve been tried for treason too. But of course, the Spanish would never hand them over. They are too busy with other things…” The master’s friend told him in an excited tone.

“You know I really wish that gunner would’ve made his target and killed that bastard Hamilton. What business does he have telling me what to do about my niggers? It cost a lot of money to move everything down here and I even lost a few niggers in the process. With Jefferson in power, that would’ve never happened. I will go see what Jefferson has to say tomorrow. If anyone can give me hope, he can…” The master replied.

Domitian listened to no more of the conversation as he sat down. He was quite glad that Hamilton was still president. In the back of his mind he knew that just 25 miles north of where he was standing, he would be a free Negro. Although he and his brethren had missed their first chance to escape, there would be others. Domitian, with the thought of freedom in his mind, gave him a boost in energy. After getting a drink of water from the well, he enthusiastically got up and began to pile bricks on the new plantation residence. He knew he was not going to be doing this work much longer...

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Comments?
Nicksplace27

[Faeelin]

But with President Hamilton and many federal troops to enforce the ‘free your slaves or leave’ rule, they were not returning. When federal troops came to Domtian’s masters home, he opted to leave along with hundreds of thousands of other slave owners. Many are immigrating to St. Augustine, Pensacola, New Orleans as well as the marshlands of southern Florida. Some are even moving to Havana. Many of the slaves escaped while moving south but Domitian was not as lucky as the others were. He was now in East Florida, where slavery was acceptable.


I'm surprised Jefferson was opposed. Wasn't he vaguely pro-abolition?

I expect this would trigger an outright secession movement in the south, though.

[Nicksplace27]

I'm surprised Jefferson was opposed. Wasn't he vaguely pro-abolition?

I expect this would trigger an outright secession movement in the south, though.

Jefferson if faced with an opponent that is pro abolition, could be pro-slavery.

Actually, without the cotton gin and with President Hamiltons new oversized army, they would rather leave. But some would stay and give up thier slaves, especially in Virginia, Tennesse, Kentucky, and North Carolina.

[JP_Morgan]

Actually, without the cotton gin and with President Hamiltons new oversized army, they would rather leave. But some would stay and give up thier slaves, especially in Virginia, Tennesse, Kentucky, and North Carolina.

Well, you're wrong about the cotton gin. It was invented in 1793, 7 years before the POD. But I suppose a strong federal army might give them some second thoughts about rebelling, and the nation is nowhere near as divided as it would be in later years in OTL. If I'm missing something, tell me.

[Nicksplace27]

Well, you're wrong about the cotton gin. It was invented in 1793, 7 years before the POD. But I suppose a strong federal army might give them some second thoughts about rebelling, and the nation is nowhere near as divided as it would be in later years in OTL. If I'm missing something, tell me.

I know it was invented by Eli Whitney then, but I'm going with that It doesn't have a massive effect until the 1820's. But I'm going with that they would rather move elsewhere with the large presence of troops in the South.

[DuQuense]

So with Federal Troops running around New York- forceing the freeing of the Slaves. ?Will this push NY into alliance with the Southern States?.
And ?Does President Hamilton Include the Hudson Valley Serfs under this.
That would put the rich Dutch landowners [Vanderbilt, Roosevelt etc.], in opposetion to the Federals.

[Nicksplace27]

So with Federal Troops running around New York- forceing the freeing of the Slaves. ?Will this push NY into alliance with the Southern States?.
And ?Does President Hamilton Include the Hudson Valley Serfs under this.
That would put the rich Dutch landowners [Vanderbilt, Roosevelt etc.], in opposetion to the Federals.

uhhh... Hamiltons home state rebelling against him? And I really don't think a few rich dutch Landowners would risk rebelling if they could just give up thier slaves and recieve compensation. I really don't think they would put a really big fight.

[Wendell]

Well, you're wrong about the cotton gin. It was invented in 1793, 7 years before the POD. But I suppose a strong federal army might give them some second thoughts about rebelling, and the nation is nowhere near as divided as it would be in later years in OTL. If I'm missing something, tell me.
No slavery =/= equality, just like IOTL.

[DuQuense]

And I really don't think a few rich dutch Landowners would risk rebelling if they could just give up thier slaves and recieve compensation. I really don't think they would put a really big fight.

In 1800 -New York has more slaves than any other States.
It is the rich Dutch landowners who have the Serf Plantations.

[Nicksplace27]

No slavery =/= equality, just like IOTL.

In 1800 -New York has more slaves than any other States.
It is the rich Dutch landowners who have the Serf Plantations.

This is very big news to me! How many dutch were still in New York in 1802, becuase in 1811, according to Kaiser Wilhelm would be enthusiastic about abolition...

Wait. This little detail could provide a very interesting twist. I'll be sure to write about this in my next series...

[Nicksplace27]

An excerpt from Napoleon: Ruler of Europe
Written by Timothy Pickering
Copyright London Publishing Company 1993.
Used with permission.

…1802 was a year of reformation for the new French Empire. Napoleon had managed to secure peace on the entire continent of Europe. With the Treaty of Almiens, Britain finally allowed the French Empire to exist. For the first time in 20 years, Europe was peace. Napoleon used this time to reform the entire military, open schools, and revamp the entire local government of France. In less than a year, France was operating with an incredible efficiency unseen in the France of 1789.

But peace would not last very long. Events in the Americas were getting more and more out of hand every day. A very Anglo-centric United States under Hamilton were taking a very anti slavery stance. Hundreds of thousands of slave owners were moving south and west to Florida and Louisiana. Napoleon, with the nation still at peace, decided the best plan of action. He decided to get Spain to transfer Louisiana and Florida to France, then turn those territories over to Jefferson and Burr. That way he would not have to get tied up with American events. Although this was a very good action, with the Republic of Florida being proclaimed on March 12th, 1802, the British would begin the war again over Malta…

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March 25th, 1802

President Hamilton opened the door to his new home in the White House. As he sat down, he felt a twinge in his right leg. Although the assassination attempt was already a year ago, he still could feel the pain. Actually, the shooting took him back to when he was a 19-year captain in the Revolutionary Army where he fought to liberate his great state of New York. Life seemed so simple back then. Now, thirty years later, there were many problems. The southern states were being less cooperative than he thought, with several revolts breaking out in Georgia and South Carolina in the past year. With these upstart republics of Florida and Louisiana under the conspirators who had ordered him to be shot, his problems were growing.

“Mr. President, Senator Anderson is here to see you.” His secretary said. No one has been more helpful in the past six months of his presidency than that man. John Anderson, a Senior Senator from Tennessee, was the one who firmly set his state to be majority pro-abolition. He, along with James Madison, has made the South a much easier place to wield his power in.

“Send him in.” Hamilton affirmed. After a few seconds the Senator from Tennessee walked in. “Ah, Senator Anderson. Please sit down...”

“Hello sir.” The senator said as he sat down in a chair beside the Presidents desk. “Mr. President I have some very unnerving news that may shock you.”

“Is this about your Floridian delegation?” He asked, all the well knowing that something went wrong.

“Yes. I came to Pensacola just in time to see the French take the Louisiana and Floridian territories back from Spain. Then a coalition of your enemies, Jefferson, Burr, and Gallatin signed a declaration of independence. They formed the Republic of Florida with 5 states; Escambia, Louisiana, Habana, and even Washington…”

“Hmm…” Hamilton sighed angrily. He had heard rumors that Burr was planning to start a breakaway republic with all those Slave owners that have moved south. But naming a state after the founder of this nation and a close personal friend of his that has just recently passed away? That really added insult to injury.

“Sir, what is your course of action?” Anderson asked. He truly had no idea what to do in this volatile situation.

“We can’t do anything at the moment but wait and blockade if necessary. I know someone who could though…” Hamilton responded now deep in a new idea. He got up out of his chair and told his secretary to set up an appointment.

“But sir, there’s a man I would also like to talk about. His name is Andrew Jackson…” Senator Anderson got up with him and tried to grab his attention.
“I’m afraid I am going to have to cut your time short. I have very pressing matters to attend to.” Hamilton brushed him off, still writing and looking things up in his office. “I show you the way out.”

“Good Day sir.” The Senator said, realizing the talk could be resumed later. He walked to the door.

“Keep up the fine work!” Hamilton said, glad he spoke with him…

[Wendell]

Andrew Jackson?:eek: I was not expecting that. Although, it does make sense. Hhhmmm, what might Hamilton be thinking?

[The Mists Of Time]

I'm not sure what kind of President Alexander Hamilton would have made. I think he tried to be rather aristocratic and made more of himself in that regard than he really was. I understand he once said that Julius Ceasar was the greatest man who ever lived. I think trade, the economy, finance, and business would have done well under a Hamilton Presidency.

The clause in The Constitution that anyone who was a U.S. citizen when The Constitution was adopted was eligable to be President, was put there because in 1787 no one over 35 years old (the age you have to be to be President) was born a U.S. citizen, they would all have been born Brittish subjects.

The Constitution doesn't say you have to physically be born in The U.S. to be eligable to be President. It says you must be a natural born U.S. citizen. There are two ways to do that.

Yes, being physically born in The USA automatically makes you a natural born U.S. citizen which is why so many immigrants want their children to be born here.

Also, if one of your parents is a U.S. citizen, it doesn't matter which one so long as one of your parents is a U.S. citizen, then you are automatically a natural born U.S. citizen. It doesn't matter where or in which country you are physically born, if one of your parents is a U.S. citizen then you are a natural born U.S. citizen as well.

I started a thread here on Alternate History Forum about Winston Churchill as President. Since Churchill's mother was a U.S. citizen, he had the right to claim to be a natural born U.S. citizen which would have made him eligable to be President of The United States.

[DuQuense]

NY passed the law abolishing Serfdom in New York in 1848, Not sure about the numbers any more. Was reading about the non Black slaves in America, and came across a web page about New York and serfs. Just tryied for a hour and a half. Just can't locate it again. I hate it when I know that the Info I want is out there in Cyberspace, and I can't find the rite thing to Google.

Any Way a Anti Slave law would probally be like NY's Copy of the Pennsylvania Statute --

In 1664, the English seized New Amsterdam and integrated it into their own imperial economy of sugar and slaves. Trading in food, wood, and animals with the British West Indies enriched the city's merchants. Slave numbers grew after 1700 as merchants, farmers, and artisans relied more and more on their labor. By the 1740s, 20% of New York's inhabitants were slaves and two out of every five households had at least one.

"An Act for the gradual abolition of Slavery," March 29,1799, in Laws of the
State of New-York, Passed at the Twenty-Second Meeting of the Legislature Begun. ..the Second Day of January, 1799 (Albany, 1799),

Be it enacted .. . That any child born of a slave within this state after the fourth day of July next shall be deemed and adjudged to be born free: Provided nevertheless. That such child shall be the servant of the legal proprietor of his or her mother until such servant, if a male, shall arrive at the
age of twenty-eight years, and if a female, at the age of twenty-five years.
And be it further enacted. That such proprietor, his, her or their heirs or assigns, shall be entitled to the service of such child until he or she shall arrive to the age aforesaid, in the same manner as if such child had been bound to service by the overseers of the poor. .

Slaves already in servitude before July 4, 1799, remained slaves for life, though they were reclassified as "indentured servants." there were a estimated 50 thousand plus, Such "Servants" in 1860 New York.
New Jersey called them Apprentices, and had anywhere from 10~20 thousand such Apprentices in 1860.

[Nicksplace27]

NY passed the law abolishing Serfdom in New York in 1848, Not sure about the numbers any more. Was reading about the non Black slaves in America, and came across a web page about New York and serfs. Just tryied for a hour and a half. Just can't locate it again. I hate it when I know that the Info I want is out there in Cyberspace, and I can't find the rite thing to Google.

Any Way a Anti Slave law would probally be like NY's Copy of the Pennsylvania Statute --

In 1664, the English seized New Amsterdam and integrated it into their own imperial economy of sugar and slaves. Trading in food, wood, and animals with the British West Indies enriched the city's merchants. Slave numbers grew after 1700 as merchants, farmers, and artisans relied more and more on their labor. By the 1740s, 20% of New York's inhabitants were slaves and two out of every five households had at least one.

"An Act for the gradual abolition of Slavery," March 29,1799, in Laws of the
State of New-York, Passed at the Twenty-Second Meeting of the Legislature Begun. ..the Second Day of January, 1799 (Albany, 1799),

Be it enacted .. . That any child born of a slave within this state after the fourth day of July next shall be deemed and adjudged to be born free: Provided nevertheless. That such child shall be the servant of the legal proprietor of his or her mother until such servant, if a male, shall arrive at the
age of twenty-eight years, and if a female, at the age of twenty-five years.
And be it further enacted. That such proprietor, his, her or their heirs or assigns, shall be entitled to the service of such child until he or she shall arrive to the age aforesaid, in the same manner as if such child had been bound to service by the overseers of the poor. .

Slaves already in servitude before July 4, 1799, remained slaves for life, though they were reclassified as "indentured servants." there were a estimated 50 thousand plus, Such "Servants" in 1860 New York.
New Jersey called them Apprentices, and had anywhere from 10~20 thousand such Apprentices in 1860.

I know and Hamilton wouldn't really focus on the northern states becuase offically all slavery was abolished by 1800. I checked on Wikipedia and another site.

[Nicksplace27]

A map of the current situation in North America.

[Imajin]

What's with Maine?

[Nicksplace27]

What's with Maine?

Its currently bieng disputed with British North America so I put the border a little further south.

[Imajin]

Its currently bieng disputed with British North America so I put the border a little further south.
But when did Massachusetts agree to give it up?

[Nicksplace27]

But when did Massachusetts agree to give it up?

oh, well technicall it is but i just put it in territories. Maine will get statehood soon though.

[Imajin]

oh, well technicall it is but i just put it in territories. Maine will get statehood soon though.
Why? If they don't need it to keep the slavery balance (since slavery is abolished) there's no reason to break up the Bay State...

[DuQuense]

IIRC Georgia didn't give up it's western claims till the 1830 when it went Bancrupt during the Canal Scandals.

[Wendell]

What's with the northeastern "horn" of the Louisiana Territory being British, and what did you do to Ohio?

[Nicksplace27]

What's with the northeastern "horn" of the Louisiana Territory being British, and what did you do to Ohio?

The 'northern Horn' you are speaking of is actually the Red River Colony. It wasn't given to America until 1819.

IIRC Georgia didn't give up it's western claims till the 1830 when it went Bancrupt during the Canal Scandals.

Same thing applies as Maine. It still has nominal control.

[Nicksplace27]

What's with the northeastern "horn" of the Louisiana Territory being British, and what did you do to Ohio?

The 'northern Horn' you are speaking of is actually the Red River Colony. It wasn't given to America until 1819.

Ohio's federal grants have taken a turn further south once slavery has been abolished and many blacks went north, so this Ohio reflects that.

IIRC Georgia didn't give up it's western claims till the 1830 when it went Bancrupt during the Canal Scandals.

Same thing applies as Maine. It still has nominal control.

[Nicksplace27]

What's with the northeastern "horn" of the Louisiana Territory being British, and what did you do to Ohio?

The 'northern Horn' you are speaking of is actually the Red River Colony. It wasn't given to America until 1819.

Ohio's federal grants have taken a turn further south once slavery has been abolished and many blacks went north, so this Ohio reflects that.

IIRC Georgia didn't give up it's western claims till the 1830 when it went Bancrupt during the Canal Scandals.

Same thing applies as Maine. It still has nominal control.

[Nicksplace27]

What's with the northeastern "horn" of the Louisiana Territory being British, and what did you do to Ohio?

The 'northern Horn' you are speaking of is actually the Red River Colony. It wasn't given to America until 1819.

Ohio's federal grants have taken a turn further south once slavery has been abolished and many blacks went north, so this Ohio reflects that.

IIRC Georgia didn't give up it's western claims till the 1830 when it went Bancrupt during the Canal Scandals.

Same thing applies as Maine. It still has nominal control.

[Nicksplace27]

What's with the northeastern "horn" of the Louisiana Territory being British, and what did you do to Ohio?

The 'northern Horn' you are speaking of is actually the Red River Colony. It wasn't given to America until 1819.

Ohio's federal grants have taken a turn further south once slavery has been abolished and many blacks went north, so this Ohio reflects that.

IIRC Georgia didn't give up it's western claims till the 1830 when it went Bancrupt during the Canal Scandals.

Same thing applies as Maine. It still has nominal control.

[Nicksplace27]

What's with the northeastern "horn" of the Louisiana Territory being British, and what did you do to Ohio?

The 'northern Horn' you are speaking of is actually the Red River Colony. It wasn't given to America until 1819.

Ohio's federal grants have taken a turn further south once slavery has been abolished and many blacks went north, so this Ohio reflects that.

IIRC Georgia didn't give up it's western claims till the 1830 when it went Bancrupt during the Canal Scandals.

Same thing applies as Maine. It still has nominal control.

[Nicksplace27]

What's with the northeastern "horn" of the Louisiana Territory being British, and what did you do to Ohio?

The 'northern Horn' you are speaking of is actually the Red River Colony. It wasn't given to America until 1819.

Ohio's federal grants have taken a turn further south once slavery has been abolished and many blacks went north, so this Ohio reflects that.

IIRC Georgia didn't give up it's western claims till the 1830 when it went Bancrupt during the Canal Scandals.

Same thing applies as Maine. It still has nominal control.

[Wendell]

The 'northern Horn' you are speaking of is actually the Red River Colony. It wasn't given to America until 1819.

Ohio's federal grants have taken a turn further south once slavery has been abolished and many blacks went north, so this Ohio reflects that.



Same thing applies as Maine. It still has nominal control.
Yes, that horn 5that curves under the source of the Mississippi. It was given to the U.S. as part of the purchase IOTL. The Red River colony, though claimed previously, was ceded to the U.S. in the treaties of 1818 or 1819 at which time U.S. claims to lands north of 49 degrees latitude and east of the Rocky Mountains were abandoned.

[Imajin]

Yes, that horn 5that curves under the source of the Mississippi. It was given to the U.S. as part of the purchase IOTL. The Red River colony, though claimed previously, was ceded to the U.S. in the treaties of 1818 or 1819 at which time U.S. claims to lands north of 49 degrees latitude and east of the Rocky Mountains were abandoned.
A great treaty for the US, we gave up a few little bits and pieces and got a larger chunk of land in return...

[Wendell]

A great treaty for the US, we gave up a few little bits and pieces and got a larger chunk of land in return...
The U.S. gave up southern Alberta for northern Minnesota and Northy Dakota. Was that really a good trade?:p

[Imajin]

The U.S. gave up southern Alberta for northern Minnesota and Northy Dakota. Was that really a good trade?:p
A tiny sliver of Alberta (pretty sure the part without oil), for a larger block to the south, that was closer to US population centers and thus easier to settle...

[Wendell]

A tiny sliver of Alberta (pretty sure the part without oil), for a larger block to the south, that was closer to US population centers and thus easier to settle...
This is true. Although the whole Lake of the Woods component was rather silly:rolleyes: I will see about checking up on Alberta...

[Nicksplace27]

This is true. Although the whole Lake of the Woods component was rather silly:rolleyes: I will see about checking up on Alberta...
Yes, that horn 5that curves under the source of the Mississippi. It was given to the U.S. as part of the purchase IOTL. The Red River colony, though claimed previously, was ceded to the U.S. in the treaties of 1818 or 1819 at which time U.S. claims to lands north of 49 degrees latitude and east of the Rocky Mountains were abandoned.

Ok, I live in Minnesota and the Lake of the Woods thing will be avoided in this TL (makes for easier natvigation for fishing;) )

Also, Lake Itasca is apart of the USA and the Mississippi. That area will be settled.

[Faeelin]

The Floridian Republic seems a bit too implausible. The French would smash the Americans, who after all are a fraction of the population in New Orleans, and the Spanish would try to meddle in Cuba.

Perhaps America under Hamilton joins Bonaparte against Britain, who supports Florida?

[Nicksplace27]

The Floridian Republic seems a bit too implausible. The French would smash the Americans, who after all are a fraction of the population in New Orleans, and the Spanish would try to meddle in Cuba.

Perhaps America under Hamilton joins Bonaparte against Britain, who supports Florida?

OK, Hamilton was very Anglo-centric and would never ally themsleves with Bonaparte.

Jefferson, Burr, and especially Jackson would ally themsleves though. Beside s, Napoleon saw he could not keep the territories anyway, so without Hailton wanting to buy them, he gave them along with Florida to Burr, Jefferson and Gallatin. I'll post another update that will explain this further.

[Wendell]

OK, Hamilton was very Anglo-centric and would never ally themsleves with Bonaparte.

Jefferson, Burr, and especially Jackson would ally themsleves though. Beside s, Napoleon saw he could not keep the territories anyway, so without Hailton wanting to buy them, he gave them along with Florida to Burr, Jefferson and Gallatin. I'll post another update that will explain this further.
Napoleon realized IOTL that he could not keep these lands, so he SOLD them, he did not give them away. I would expect him to seek compensation here as in OTL. Unless, he is hoping that Burr & Co. can keep Hamiltn-and maybe the British-distracted.

[Imajin]

Louisiana at this point was so sparsely settled that there really wasn't much outside of New Orleans (which wasn't really much)... so essentially what's left is useless unsettled wilderness. Why would France bother keeping that?

[Nicksplace27]

Napoleon realized IOTL that he could not keep these lands, so he SOLD them, he did not give them away. I would expect him to seek compensation here as in OTL. Unless, he is hoping that Burr & Co. can keep Hamiltn-and maybe the British-distracted.

Nappy would both be thinking that and Burr and co. (I actually like that...) would be supporting the Fernch in Haiti and maybe even a little bit of reimbursement. Just to keep the ruler of Europe happy.

Louisiana at this point was so sparsely settled that there really wasn't much outside of New Orleans (which wasn't really much)... so essentially what's left is useless unsettled wilderness. Why would France bother keeping that?

My point exactly.

[Nicksplace27]

An excerpt from 1804: The Floridian Revolution
Written by John Gingrich,
Blue House Publishing Inc. New Orleans, Republic of Florida. Copyright 1992.
Used With Permission…

…The United States have drawn away from their true democracy of the revolution of thirty years ago! They have come to emulate their Monarchist British allies that does not allow Hamilton emulates his ability to become a Monarch himself by eliminating all opponents in our beloved south by forcing the illegal abolition of slavery. Although many traitors went along with Hamilton’s terrible plan, more of us left and we find ourselves here in St. Augustine. I am here with you today to declare a new Republic, a republic that our guide and mentor George Washington would be proud of. A nation comprised of a true democracy, without any elements of Monarchism whatsoever. I am naming this great state after Washington in honor of a founding father who would’ve surely been on our side.

I know that the United States will soon try and cast their terrible hand upon and try to crush democracy once again but I say that will not stand! I invite every one of you to rise up in arms with me to fight this terrible force and keep the true Republic free!”

With those words, Aaron Burr provided a rallying cry for every new resident of Florida and even some in the South. On March 13th, 1804, the first inauguration of the Floridian Congress went into secession. They immediately addressed the concern of their former United States trying to conquer them and impose anti-slavery laws again. They perceived correctly that America could not purposefully invade their new republic as long as they did not try and extend their interests into the United States.

Everyone in Congress as well as in both countries knew that war was just around the corner. Both militaries were kept in top shape and both sides bolstered their defenses as several months have worn on. Everyone thought that the catalyst for this proposed war would come from the continuing fight for Haiti. Toussiant Le Overture and his freed slaves had been fighting the French with several years and it was no secret that the United States was supporting Toussiant and Florida was supporting the French. But no one would have thought where the war would truly begin…

[Nicksplace27]

Comments anyone?

[G.Bone]

Not my cup of tea nor have I read it but I just say - keep on going and mayhaps you'll find genius!:D :) :cool:

[Faeelin]

OK, Hamilton was very Anglo-centric and would never ally themsleves with Bonaparte.

This is true in a rough outline, but it's fairly simplistic.

Remember, Hamilton's entire economic policy was built around destroying Britain's economic superiority, vis a vis America.

He respected England, and (rightly) thought the French Revolution would lead to a dictatorship.

In any case, your idea merely leads to that anyway. Jefferson and his pro-French cohorts are crushed by the Army of the Republic, under Hamilton.

If you want a viable state like this, how about you take the For Want of a Nail Route, and place it in Texas? Later, the Americans can take over Mexico, and compete against the US that way.

[JP_Morgan]

No slavery =/= equality, just like IOTL.

I'm not sure what the slashes mean:confused: , but there definitely won't be 'equality' for blacks. Most people at this time still think of 'the Negro' as inferior, but maybe you mean in the future?

[Wendell]

I'm not sure what the slashes mean:confused: , but there definitely won't be 'equality' for blacks. Most people at this time still think of 'the Negro' as inferior, but maybe you mean in the future?
=/= is supposed to mean "does not equal."

[JP_Morgan]

I didn't think so, but I wondered how the cotton gin would not become widespread. In any case, there has been resistance by Southern landowners, like it says

[CalBear]

Just a point about differense in age between men & women, which seems to be a primary point of the POD.

The current social view of proper age differences between men & women, is a relatively recent phenomena. In the 1800's it was extremely common. This was due to a combination of factors, a primary one being the horrifying percentage of women who died in childbirth, leaving fairly young, established, often well-to-do widowers. Cases of Marriage where the Husband & wife were very close in age (such as Hamilton's) are far fewer than the opposite. As examples:

John Adams - Wife was 9 years his junior
Aaron Burr - 1st wife was 10 years his senior
James Madison - Wife 17 years his junior
Elbridge Gerry - Wife was 9 years his junior
James Monroe - Wife 10 years his junior
John Quincy Adams - Wife 8 years his junior

Hamiliton's problem was that he allowed himself to be blackmailed, not the age difference, not even the mistress, but the blackmail. That, and the fact that Mr. Reynolds decided to make some pocket change in shady speculations while Hamiltion was SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY! Sort of made things look bad. Of course it didn't help that Hamilton continued to shag Mrs. Reynolds AFTER her husband found out.

I do find it interesting that you have painted this wholesome picture of Hamilton (Who IOTL had the affair, kept it up AFTER the husband found out, AND paid the husband off rather than face him on the dueling field OR stop shagging his wife.) , and, at the same time, paint Thomas Jefferson :eek: as a traitor & willing, if unwitting, conspirator to murder for hire. There is no evidence that Jefferson had this kind of behaviour in his personality. Indeed his historical personality could not be more different. But since he owned slaves, I suppose any level of evil is to be expected of the man.

In any case, best of luck with your TL.

[Faeelin]

and, at the same time, paint Thomas Jefferson :eek: as a traitor & willing, if unwitting, conspirator to murder for hire.

He was a traitor in OTL, wasn't he?

He helped launch a rebellion against his lawful sovereign, because of a minor tax dispute.

(I'm provoking, ya, but I think it's a valid point).

[CalBear]

He was a traitor in OTL, wasn't he?

He helped launch a rebellion against his lawful sovereign, because of a minor tax dispute.

(I'm provoking, ya, but I think it's a valid point).

Damn. I hate it when I get hoisted with my own petard.:D

[Nicksplace27]

July 24th, 1804
Thebes [OTL Memphis], Tennessee (Disputed)

Andrew Jackson was not happy with the direction the United States had been going. Four years ago, he was incredibly disappointed when Hamilton became president and also was disappointed when that assassin missed him. But what news he heard of after was even more alarming. Hamilton abolishing slavery [1] all across the south… He just still could not fathom it but with no one in Congress daring to oppose him [2], troops from the north came pouring in. As he, his family and many other slave-owning families went west to French held Louisiana, his dream of America was shattered. Hamilton was now a lapdog to the British, and simply the thought made him sick to his stomach.

He technically was still in the United States in this brand new town of Thebes, named after the great city on the Nile [3]. Being apart of a country where a dictator ruled was just too much for him to handle. The world he knew was crumbling around him. But there was a ray of hope. The Republic of Florida was declared just six months ago and he knew freedom was going to live on. With President Jefferson and VP Burr raising the banner of democracy amidst a sea of totalitarianism truly brought back hope to Jackson. This also energized him. Hamilton has stolen his homeland and made hundreds of thousands of others leave with him. He would not take this anymore. He would take back the south…

---------------------

An excerpt from 1804: The Floridian Revolution
Written by John Gingrich,
Blue House Publishing Inc. New Orleans, Republic of Florida. Copyright 1992.
Used With Permission…

The eastern portions of Kentucky and Tennessee seceded from the Union on July 24th 1804 and took the name Putnam [4]. It was recognized as a state in the Republic of Florida one day later and at the same time the United States declared war on the Republic of Florida. The war everyone had feared for a year was upon the continent.

British and America, who had been planning attack strategies since the Florida’s independence, counted on a main attack from St. Augustine, Pensacola, and New Orleans. With Putnam breaking off and Andrew Jackson’s Army moving east quickly, the entire Untied States Army was caught off guard. Within weeks, much of Appalachia was in chaos.

The south did not stay static during the first few weeks of the war though. There were many uprisings within the state governments and pieces of the Carolinas fully rebelled against US domination. There was one state though, that fully rebelled against American rule. Georgia fully declared them a state in the Republic of Florida on October 1st 1804.

--------------------------------

October 2nd 1804
Washington D.C.

“Traitors! These men are traitors! They will not live to see the day they rebel against America!” A man yelled as the Georgian delegation to congress was kicked out of the capitol building. Their desperate request or amnesty was denied and hopefully they reach somewhere safe. Soon mobs of people were chasing the carriage as they raced out of Washington D.C. Many carried torches and pitchforks, screaming with a virulent hatred as they ran alongside the carriage as it raced away from the city.

Among the fleeing Congressmen was the Abraham Baldwin, a virulent anti-Hamiltonian and had thought that secession was a good idea. Now he knew why no other senators from the south would agree with him. He was hastily expelled from congress and could not return because he was now treasonous. Although Hamilton allowed opposition to his policies, any declaration of leaving the union in full force would be dealt with harshly. War with Florida and Andrew Jackson’s armies raiding the west, he was even more likely to be assaulted. Somehow though, he thought it would be ok. It sure was not. Hindsight’s 20/20…

---------------------------

[1] Abolishing slavery is a very loose term that varies place to place. Some states abolish slowly with ‘grandfathering’ coming into play, and some abolish quickly.

[2] Burr arranging a shooting actually allowed Hamilton to exercise his powers more effectively and reduce congresses powers immensely. Also the Democrat-Republican party was denounced because of it giving the federalists complete power.

[3] Named after another city on the Nile (Memphis), The slaver settlers named it a little differently.

[4] Named after Israel Putnam, an explorer of Kentucky and Tennessee and was a contemporary of Daniel Boone.

------------------

Comments?

[Nicksplace27]

A map for the current situation...

[Nicksplace27]

Comments?

Insight?

Ideas?

--------------

Nicksplace27

[Wendell]

Comments?

Insight?

Ideas?

--------------

Nicksplace27
I could see southern Illinois falling to Florida potentially, if only briefly.

[stevep]

Comments?

Insight?

Ideas?

--------------

Nicksplace27

I presume the comments in the Gingrich book are those of a partisan pro-Jackson militant. Interesting thing is if he can get away with that then?

Looking like a fair punch up developing but the US should be able to handle the attacks from the hard-liners, given its greater resources and their economic vulnerability.

Steve

[Nicksplace27]

I presume the comments in the Gingrich book are those of a partisan pro-Jackson militant. Interesting thing is if he can get away with that then?


Well, the book was written in 1992. Its not like the British would be pissed off becuase we said that Washington was great man now...


Looking like a fair punch up developing but the US should be able to handle the attacks from the hard-liners, given its greater resources and their economic vulnerability.


Yes, the Republic of Florida is a very new country at only two years old. But Florida has the element of suprise right now and the mississippi valley are in thier control.

[G.Bone]

After much reading -

It's very good although I would put more 'body' into the quotations and the actual installments of the TL. It seems a wee bit simple. Could you throw in some details on the war and how the *USA* is ITTL culturally, politically, and militarily?

[Nicksplace27]

After much reading -

It's very good although I would put more 'body' into the quotations and the actual installments of the TL. It seems a wee bit simple. Could you throw in some details on the war and how the *USA* is ITTL culturally, politically, and militarily?

I know its been a bit short and not enough to really give a good view to the enitre situation. I've been a little busy with family things, but I still wanted to keep up the TL. This next installment will be a very interesting look at the United States and I will try to add more detail...

[Nicksplace27]

Columbia College
New York City, New York
May 11th 1992

“Alright class, hand up the essay assigned on the First Floridian War. We need to get started.” Professor Baldwin told the class as he took his place on the podium in this large classroom. Before him were two hundred of the brightest minds in the United States. As they passed up their very long essays, the piles stacked up. Soon, the Professor was knee deep in paper. “Well, I’m glad to see you’ve all done your research.” He joked. This brought a few chuckles from the class. “But getting back to the point. Did anyone learn anything interesting that you did not know about the First Floridian War?” A Student raised his hand. “Yes, Kosi? [1]”

“I learned that the First Floridian War was the first time black American soldiers fighting and the first black division of the Army was created in 1805 for that purpose. Many of these men were also the first free black men to vote in a Western country, which was a large factor in contributing the abolition of slavery worldwide in 1817.” Kosi Anunke responded in a very studious tone. Kosi Anunke was half Fante [2] and he was originally from the state of Ashante. His family was very poor and he paid himself for passage to the mainland states [3] and admission to this high level University. He, of course never took anything for granted.

“Where is your source for this very important fact?” the Professor asked curious as he walked a bit closer to the class to listen to Kosi.

“Well, my great-great grandfather on my mothers side fought with one of the black Army regiments. He even fought in the Battle of Pearl River. My grandmother, back in Ashante told me the story of his life.” Kosi replied, somewhat embarrassed at where he received the information.

“Very, very interesting.” The professor replied. “Can anyone give more detail on the Battle of Pearl River? It was one of the most important battles in the First Floridian War.” After a few seconds, a girl raised her hand from the back of the auditorium. “Yes, Jessica?”

“The battle of Pearl River was fought on the 15th of November 1805 between General Henry Dearborn, who was commanding American troops mostly made of freed slaves and General Andrew Jackson, who had far fewer troops. Jackson, using superior generalship and fueling the hatred the men had for blacks, killed thousands mercilessly. The death toll on the American side was high but Jackson was forced back and Putnam was encircled, forcing Jackson back to Escambia. This battle, an epic one comparative to the battle of San Juan River in 1838, turned the tide of war for the Americans.” Jessica Hawthorne answered. A student of her intellect was hard to come by; she was one of the great Hawthorne’s of political fame. She was also one of the United States most eligible bachelorettes. For now though, she was focusing on her studies.

“Very good, Ms. Hawthorne. You must have written on that topic in great detail. I am always delighted with your extensive knowledge on these topics.” The professor said.

“I also learned that both President Hamilton and President Jay studied here in this college. Hamilton studied to get his medical degree and had no intention to become a political figure [4].” Jessica Hawthorne added.
“Very good, but back then it was referred to as King’s college, before the American Revolution.” The professor added, impressed at Hawthorne’s knowledge yet again. “Would anyone else like to share something?”

“Professor I have a question.” A person said aloud from the back of the room. “What effect did this have on the Second Anglo-French War [5]?”

“Ah, yes. That will be our main talking point for tomorrow’s session, along with the Siege of St. Augustine. Be prepared with this and try and read up on other knowledge.” The Professor said to wrap up the discussion. “Class dismissed.” The door in the back of the auditorium opened and two hundred students bustled rather loudly out. After a few moments, the professor and his papers was all that was left…

---------------------------
Just outside St. Augustine
Washington, Republic of Florida
January 26th, 1806

General William Henry Harrison sat in his tent overlooking the besieged city of St. Augustine. Two smells dominated his last few months in this place. One was the smell of sea salt, penetrating everything and the other was the smell of gunpowder. Every few minutes, he would hear the roar of cannons from both sides and the crack of muskets being fired over and over.

Many people have died in the several months that this siege had gone on for, and the people of St. Augustine were getting very tired and very hungry. They have resorted to eating rats and dogs. Due to that disease and pestilence ruled everywhere. At least his troops weren’t feeling any brunt of assault and he predicted that they would give up soon.

His allies, the British, have sent several thousand men to assist in the siege. The leader of this was the young Colonel Arthur Wellesley. He was fresh from fighting the Marathas in India and learned to get back home. He has been quite the leader, but he still seemed very young. He would get more experience with more time. One thing he respected Arthur Wellesley for was the fact that he bathed daily. Most average Brits wouldn’t bathe if their life depended on it, but Colonel Wellesley always was fresh and clean [6].

As he walked further, he heard more artillery shells as they hit several buildings. The buildings trembled, shook and crumbled. This, although a good destructive tactic, could provide the defenders of the city more hiding places and could make it harder to root out. All in all, though, they were seeing great progress and the city seemed as though it could fall any day now.

A new series of cracks and booms interrupted his thoughts. These were not coming from the places he normally heard them. These were coming from the east, behind his lines. He saw thousands of men sprinting down the plains in the midday firing and at the head was one man, Andrew Jackson. Blazing the colors of the Republic of Florida, he began to gallop full speed at General Harrison’s besiegers.

“Oh lord…” He said to himself quietly. It appeared as though Jackson was not too caught up in Escambia or the Mississippi Territory. He had no idea General Jackson would be here so soon. “I need as many soldiers I can get to combat Jackson. You, you, you and you, go!” He told his fellow officer as he sent them out. He needed to act fast to continue this siege.

As he ran to tell other officers of the new situation, he heard new sounds coming from a different direction. As he looked south to the source of the sound, he saw where it was coming from. Thousands of battle cries from Seminole Indians as they poured down with muskets blazing. At the head of these men was none other than General James Wilkinson. “Oh shit…” He said in a toneless manner, almost throwing his hands up in surrender right then and there. With these two forces converging upon him, there was little he could do…

[1] Kosi, as an Ashante name, means that you were born on Tuesday. Similarly, Kofi Annan means that he was born on a Friday.

[2] The Fante are a small side tribe of the larger Ashante Confederacy in OTL.

[3] This means all of the area of the United States in North America, excluding anything elsewhere in the world.

[4] This is an OTL fact.

[5] This means The Napoleonic Wars. The first Anglo French war was in OTL the Seven Years War.

[6] Wellesley, who in OTL later became the Duke of Wellington and Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, brought the ‘bathing everyday’ fashion into style. Before that, most Brits wouldn’t bathe for days.

---------------------------------------------------

Comments?

[Wendell]

Great update. I like the use of the two parts.

[stevep]

Well, the book was written in 1992. Its not like the British would be pissed off becuase we said that Washington was great man now...


I was think more that it sounds a bit of a rant against the US, which presuming the latter won the resulting conflict would probably be somewhat less than popular. Especially in support of a slave holding break away group that launched an attack on the US. Possibly not as extreme as say holocaust denials in OTL but a similar sort of thing. [Or to use your example if someone in modern US produced a book saying Washington and his fellow rebels were evil murderers and thugs without a foot to stand on in their rebellion?]

Steve

[G.Bone]

Hmmm....tit for tat...

Shame the seige was broken...:mad:

What's up with the Seminoles fighting for the Floridinians (?) ?

[Nicksplace27]

Great update. I like the use of the two parts.

Thanks. My nextr update will have three parts at the same length each.

I was think more that it sounds a bit of a rant against the US, which presuming the latter won the resulting conflict would probably be somewhat less than popular. Especially in support of a slave holding break away group that launched an attack on the US. Possibly not as extreme as say holocaust denials in OTL but a similar sort of thing. [Or to use your example if someone in modern US produced a book saying Washington and his fellow rebels were evil murderers and thugs without a foot to stand on in their rebellion?]

Steve

Well, you didn't see where it was published and presumbaly sold in. It is printed in New Orleans the second largest city in the Republic of Florida.

Hmmm....tit for tat...

Shame the seige was broken...

What's up with the Seminoles fighting for the Floridinians (?) ?

Yeah, well Slavery can't end peacefully and without problem. But the seminoles will be included in a piece on race relations inculding African Americans and Native Americans.

[Nicksplace27]

An Excerpt from The Golden Age of Revolution: 1783-1817
By William Culbertson
Red Flag Publishing Company, Superior [OTL Duluth], USA copyright 1993
Used with Permission

… The First Floridian War was a conflict that was fought on the Republic of Florida’s terms almost the entire time. The secession of Putnam, Georgia, and rebellions all across the Carolinas almost completely crippled the United States occupying force. But the most crippling force was that of the Indian Confederation and other Native American peoples. President Jefferson, and after 1804, President Burr supported the Native American, could grant them land and de-facto freedom. Of course, this would not be consistent policy but the tribal leaders jumped on the idea and many served in the Battle of Pearl River, the Battle of Boonsborough, the liberation of St. Augustine and the Battle of Vincennes.

The United States however, used freed slaves as their largest asset in the south. They served to the best of their abilities and many were awarded with Congressional Medals of Valor and other honors. Unfortunately, former slave owners were very well versed in being able to put down slave revolts and some even knew the names and whereabouts of the slaves who were now fighting for the United States. The recent movie ‘Wilmington’s Freedom’ (Starlove Pictures, 1992), was a very accurate example of the brutality that former slave owners when they fought and even hunted down their former slaves.

The third, and most influential party in this conflict was the British Empire. They provided the mass naval support and the invasion of northern Louisiana Territory. But their largest mistake was providing large support in the south and especially detaching troops for the siege of St. Augustine. Over 85 percent of the British troops were killed or taken prisoner. After that, the Empire is tired and with the Second Anglo-French War braking out, talks between Florida and the British began in 1806, eventually dragging the United States in as well…

----------------------

An excerpt from “What Might Have Been…”
Written By John C. Hawthorne
Blue Steel Publishing Inc., Charleston, South Carolina, Copyright 1994
Used with Permission…

The year 1804 was a formative one for North America. The nations of the United States of America and the Republic of Florida were locked in a deep struggle over several issues divided among them. The resulting hatred from the First Floridian War stemmed the Second, the Third, and soon perhaps a Fourth Floridian War. Millions and millions have died in these conflicts and many families and lives have been torn apart because of these terrible hate filled conflicts. But history could have taken a very different course had one man felt a subtle change in mood.

The mood in the Republic of Florida was in great spirits in 1804 as then General Jackson took much of the Mississippi valley and the South. The United States were looking as though they had been outsmarted and outmaneuvered. It looked as though the Republic of Florida would replace the United States as the largest and most powerful nation in North America.

Back in Pensacola, the first President of the Republic of Florida, Thomas Jefferson, had a very large moral dilemma. Only four years before, he had made a bid to be the leader of the same nation that he was now directing a war at. It broke his heart to see the people of the great United States broke apart and fighting over something as trivial as slavery. He was a broken man who felt like he was forced into trying to assassinate Hamilton after losing that election. Now he had a chance to reconcile. With the Floridians winning the war, he began to open up diplomatic contacts with the United States with the proposition to Hamilton to reinstate slavery for a short amount of time with much more gradual emancipation. Many residents of Florida, who were former patriots of the American Revolution themselves, supported this plan and believed it could work. With Florida defeating the United States so far, unifying their two nations would not be that hard.

Although Jefferson had gathered considerable support for this new cause of uniting these two countries, there was much opposition led by then Vice-President Aaron Burr. He believed something very different. He thought that there was no hope left for the United States and they would revert back to being pawns of the giant British Empire. He believed that it was the right thing to do to arrange that shooting of Hamilton as their last resort. He believed that if Florida continued the war, they could completely crush the United States and the British. Burr wanted to make an international fool out of Hamilton, his biggest rival and no one would be able to stop him, not even the President of the Republic.

A resolution to end the war on favorable terms to the United States and British came up in the Floridian House of Representatives, and voting commenced on July 5th, 1804. After a long day of deliberation, the voting began to look more and more even. By the end of the day, it was split 28 for and 28 against. One man had yet to vote though, to break the tie.

That man was Abraham Baldwin, a former senator of the United States of America representing Georgia. He was completely split on the issue and did not know what to do. He would love to return to his home in Georgia but under a president that he did not respect at all. One outside element changed his mind.

A messenger moved throughout the night and fared terrible conditions but managed to get the word the Baldwin’s son was killed by a Black regiment of troops. His only son was his life and losing him was devastating. This unsettling news turned the tide for Burr. With a vote of 29 against to 28 for; Jefferson was defeated. Shortly after, he resigned as President. He did not want to fight his own country and eventually was let back into the United States where he took up residence in his home on Monticello.

Back in Pensacola, Burr took the presidency and shortly thereafter, the turning point of the war; The Battle of Pearl River was fought. This cut off Putnam and providing the United States with much needed breathing room to continue this fight. Eventually, a peace was settled in 1807.

What if that messenger to Baldwin was a little slower or even waited until the next morning to send the massage to Pensacola? Without that letter, Baldwin may have voted to resume a peace with the United States and maybe even unite the two factions. Although, many may have rejected the offer, some were quite keen on the idea. Then Secretary of State James Madison would have been wholeheartedly in favor of this unity between these nations made up of very much the same people. Many households also were very sick of this war, and to continue would require a victory of epic proportions shown to them in the Battle of Pearl River. But before this, if provided with a resolution like that, the people may have taken it wholeheartedly. The United States and Republic of Florida would have been united under one banner and eliminated a century of conflict between these two nations. Who knows, they have even forestalled the establishment of the Republic of Mexico. This new hybrid of the Republic of Florida and the United States could have taken all of Rupertsland and what was then Canada very quickly. This new entity could have brought over a third of the world under their banner and could be the greatest nation this planet has ever seen.

If only one messenger had decided to take the night off…

[Nicksplace27]

Comments?
Questions?
Insight?
Ideas?

[Nicksplace27]

I'd like to continue this TL but on some different terms. I'll be restarting it in a different thread.

Due to earlier events tied within Hamiltons life, he doesn't fight with Madison, and with Adams on the way out, Hamilton teams up with madison and defeats Jefferson and Burr in 1800. Jefferson takes the defeat lightly and with renewed vigor, much like in 1796. Burr doesn't feel the same way. After Hamilton wants to liberate all slaves from bondage, with Madison's approval and Jeffersons as well, Burr and wilkinson go west with many slaveowners and there is no conflict until the Declaration of the Republic of Washington in 1814.

Any thoughts on my quick snyopsis? It is much more thought out than the 1800 one.

[DuQuense]

Although some plantations owners will accept this deal, many will not and will plan to move to the Spanish possessions of Florida or New Spain. Many Negroes will move to this new US possession in West Africa, as well as moving north to the free states…
OTL most of the northern Blacks opposed allowing the Southern Blacks to move north.Many are immigrating to St. Augustine, Pensacola, New Orleans as well as the marshlands of southern Florida. Some are even moving to Havana.

As the population of Cuba at this time is 25% free Black, I don't think those Southerners will be happy there.Many Negroes will move to this new US possession in West Africa,

?When and how did whe get this?

[DuQuense]

Everyone in Congress as well as in both countries knew that war was just around the corner. Both militaries were kept in top shape and both sides bolstered their defenses as several months have worn on.

?Wasn't the entire "Army of the United States" in 1800 in the ten Thousands?
And I doubt if the Southern Militas will be interested in Invading Florida

And what is this with Cuba, Cuba was the Richest, most developed, Colony in the Spainish Empire, [New Spain was second] No way they would give up half of it.

Also You have the Civilized tribes In Florida, the Creeks, Chowtaws, and Semimoles would object strongly to all this.
Even as they are being pushed south, they will take Hundreds of runaway slaves with them.

Remember -- Jackson Thought the Indians had to be pushed aside for the growth of the Republic to take place.
He also didn't like Militia's, I don't think he could have rallied the Militias of west Kentucky and Tennessee, Into a effective fighting force that quick.
It took close to two years for the US to build up to the 40.000 troops in the "Army of the United States" I don't see this Florida having the manpower to defeat the US,

Also at this point Britain would probally launch a invasion of Cuba. Cutting off the most developed part of the Republic. and the supplies it was sending.