Larger Netherlands

[pompejus]

Hello, I am new here and I tried to think of some interesting timeline. The idea was to create a larger republic of the Netherlands. The point of diversion is that Charles V, who in the original timeline united the Netherlands by adding Guelders, Utrecht, Frisia and groningen to his other territories, also adds Jülich-Cleves-Berg, east frisia, Oldenburg, Liege, Bentheim Tecklenberg and Munster to his territories (and if possible Osnabruck and Cologne)(the area within the black border around the map). This will lead to a more successful revolt against his son Philip II after which these territories form the republic of the Netherlands. The most important part of it are the trading cities at the west coast in Flanders, zeeland, Holland and Brabant.
I have thought about what could happen further, but I would like to know first if this is somewhat realistic or not.

Original map at
http://www.shadowedrealm.com/maps/map.php?id=31

[oberdada]

Welcome,

it would be helpful if you'd also give us a year.
I guess most peolple ( including me) don't no that much about Dutch history, to know when Charles V. united the Netherlands.

What happens to the terroretorry owned by the church?

[Max Sinister]

Charles V is maybe a bit too late, at that time most dynasties were established and didn't die out so another prince could inherit their territories (as it happened more often some centuries earlier). Unless he confiscates territories of Protestant princes...

[pompejus]

Charles V lived from 1500-1558, was Holy Roman Emperor, King of Spain, Naples, and Sicily and ruler of the Burgundian territories. Those territories included alot of what is now The Netherlands and Belgium (the orange parts on the map). He added to those Guelders (it is also orange on the map but ignore that), Frisia, Groningen and Utrecht. Before that there was no Netherlands and those areas were basicly rivalling warlords. Charles V created the Netherlands, without him there wouldn't have been unity in that area. The idea is that he could have conquered some more territories.
I could have some earlier POD and have some of the territories added earlier because of conquest inter marriage or something if that would make it more likely.

[Iñaki]

Hmm, very interesting:)

And for an earlier POD (as commented by Max) could be Charles the Bold have some more succes as duke of Burgundy and conquest some more territories than in OTL but not the sufficient succesful to elude his defeat by the swiss.

Could be this comes a bit later than in OTL, but it arrives the same, instead 1477 the defeat is produced for example in 1488 against a coalition of Habsburg, France and Swiss and lorrainers, but in this ATL Charles has had more succes in expanding Burgundy and more years of reigning so he could conquest some of the territories that you name than in OTL not were conquered.

Also when this war ends France want to seize all Burgundy or the most part, now because the new danger is France a new coalition begins between Habsburg, Swis and Lorrainers (and could be a new member as for example England) against the old ally french that is now an enemy, also Maximilian of Habsburg marries with Mary the only daughter of Charles, Mary accepts quickly because the dangers of the french ending totally the independece of Burgundy makes her to see Maximilian as a good defensor of Burgundy (and well she prefers the Habsburg than the french), so with this marriage Maximilian have new motives to form a new coalition in defense of the equilibrium in Central Europe against France.

France is defeated and Burgundy is now in fact an Habsburg possesion (and after death of Mary formally part of Habsburg empire) as France has been defeated by this coalition, more territories remain in the Habsburg Burgundy (at difference of in OTL that intermitten wars between Habsburg and France makes that some peaces and compromises gives some burgundian territory to France) also Maximilian that is as in OTL emperor of Germany has more prestige and power than in OTL because his decisive defeat of France and showing him as the great man that the Empire and Europe needs to maintain the equilibrium in Central Europe against a possible new danger from France, so Maximilian conquest and adds new territories in Germany as Munster and East Frisia to Burgundy.

And after his grandson Charles V succeeded him as new Habsburg emperor and as you say he manages to conquer more territories so when he dies all the territories that you names for create a future more large Netherlands are all controlled by the Habsburg because the succesive conquests of Charles the bold, Maximilian and Charles V.

So I think with this POD you can obtain all the territories (including Osnabruck and Cologne) that you want to form this larger Netherlands.:)