Challenge: The British Revolution

[DominusNovus]

Instead of the French Revolution, lets have a British Revolution. It is a challenge, after all. ;) POD must be late enough that the ARW goes on schedule.

You must:

Abolish the Monarchy
Establish a Republic/Commonwealth
Avoid that nasty little incident with the US in 1812.


Thats it. Preferably, the French should keep their monarchy and Britain should remain a Republic. Bonus points for involving Napoleon in an inventive way.

[MrP]

Thats it. Preferably, the French should keep their monarchy and Britain should remain a Republic. Bonus points for involving Napoleon in an inventive way.

Well, there is the sometime mentioned fact that his father tried to send him off to join the RN in OTL (or am I misremembering fiction as fact?). One could have that succeed.

I'd be tempted to have a healthy British monarch (no porphyria) who has an unhealthy obsession with having the Colonials toe the line. This ties him up with the policy of his more belligerent than OTL government, and leads to Britain redeploying troops from India. France is more successful there, or an Indian prince has a string of successes against British interests. Meanwhile, the invasion of Canada is better handled, leading to the loss of most of it in the peace talks.

So shortly after the ARW the British have lost mainland America and India, and the unpopular monarch and his government have been forced to raise taxes to pay for the extra expenditure. Irritated aristocrats and merchants decide they're sick of this, and force another Civil War. This time the monarchy is permanently driven out. Across the Channel, France realises that pacifying her citizens is the way to go, and effects some novel changes of government. However, the concept of a Republican Britain worries European monarchies and Britain's exiled monarch gathers enough support to launch an attempted invasion. At the battle of Dover Lord Howe's fleet defeats the invasion force, and Rear Admiral Napoleon Bonaparte kills the King in a duel, following the boarding of his ship.

I fear I lack the period knowledge to flesh this out. :o

[DominusNovus]

While I like it, I should have been clearer on two points:


American Revolution
It should end roughly the same was as OTL.
Royalty
No nobility in Britain.

[Wendell]

While I like it, I should have been clearer on two points:


American Revolution
It should end roughly the same was as OTL.
Royalty
No nobility in Britain.

So we cannot alter the size of the U.S.?

[DominusNovus]

So we cannot alter the size of the U.S.?
Sure ya can. It just has to be after the revolution.

[Wendell]

Sure ya can. It just has to be after the revolution.
Well, one's definition of when the revolution ended is uncertain.

[DominusNovus]

Well, one's definition of when the revolution ended is uncertain.
Treaty of Paris.

[Wendell]

Treaty of Paris.
It has to diverge AFTER the treaty, and not DURING the discussions?

[MrP]

While I like it, I should have been clearer on two points:


American Revolution
It should end roughly the same was as OTL.
Royalty
No nobility in Britain.


Oh. Um, no nobility? Er, then I guess we need to have something pretty strange happen to make either everyone hate the aristos or have whatever few are left here do a Lafayette, and hang around through love of country and democracy. I'm not too sure how to do that. :confused: Our nobility has a history of pissing off our monarchy for its own ends - and inadvertently benefiting us peasants in t'process. :D

So we need to end the AWI close to OTL, and remove all the British aristos or have them renounce/not care about their titles? Hmm.

Could I keep most of the TL and just have the aristocracy gradually renounce their titles in the years post-Revolution? We don't have a great tradition of aristos necessarily supporting the monarchy, after all. We'll need a very sharp kick to the groin - like the FR - to kick 'em all out. Mm . . . interesting problem.

[DominusNovus]

It has to diverge AFTER the treaty, and not DURING the discussions?
It can diverge before that, but the gist of the treaty has to be the same.

[DominusNovus]

Oh. Um, no nobility? Er, then I guess we need to have something pretty strange happen to make either everyone hate the aristos or have whatever few are left here do a Lafayette, and hang around through love of country and democracy. I'm not too sure how to do that. :confused: Our nobility has a history of pissing off our monarchy for its own ends - and inadvertently benefiting us peasants in t'process. :D

So we need to end the AWI close to OTL, and remove all the British aristos or have them renounce/not care about their titles? Hmm.

Could I keep most of the TL and just have the aristocracy gradually renounce their titles in the years post-Revolution? We don't have a great tradition of aristos necessarily supporting the monarchy, after all. We'll need a very sharp kick to the groin - like the FR - to kick 'em all out. Mm . . . interesting problem.
That should be fine. The nobility is a flexible point, I guess.

[Derek Jackson]

For some stupid reason there is still a war with France which is unpopular. There are risings in Ireland and Naval mutinies- both of which happened in OTL in 1797-8.

[MrP]

That should be fine. The nobility is a flexible point, I guess.

Ah, splendid! :) Thankee, old boy. I suppose one could have some important aristo in the war make a big show of renouncing his title so he's no longer bound to the King at all. This leads many of the Rebels to do the same. Those families that retain their titles are looked on with suspicion, and following parliamentary reforms in the following decades, it becomes ever harder to be an aristocrat and get the vote.

Or leave that first bit as is, and have the post Civil War government radically rework the "constitution" so that titled aristos can only sit in the House of Lords (or a new name), which is subsequently reformed in line with current (OTL) thinking to be another elected body, composed of a limited number of aristos.

Any good, old boy? :)

[Jason]

ECW has more long lasting effects, Cromwell and his successors (either his sons or Monck and those after him). The Diggers and Levellers are successful movements and are supported by the army. The merchantile classes object to the Levellers and try to have them crushed but are crushed instead by the army. Europe starts to react towards the England the way they reacted towards Revoluntionary France as the Levellers/Diggers ideas start to spread...

[DominusNovus]

ECW has more long lasting effects, Cromwell and his successors (either his sons or Monck and those after him). The Diggers and Levellers are successful movements and are supported by the army. The merchantile classes object to the Levellers and try to have them crushed but are crushed instead by the army. Europe starts to react towards the England the way they reacted towards Revoluntionary France as the Levellers/Diggers ideas start to spread...
Too early. I said it has to be late enough to leave the American Revolution basically the same.