World War II General Tank Duel

[Mike Stearns]

An ASB takes Patton, Mongomery, Zhukov, Tojo and Rommel to the African desert gives them each a tank, a crew and unlimited ammunition and tells them to settle World War II. What happens next?

[Flocculencio]

3-vs-2

Allies take it.

Patton and Monty then turn their guns on Zukhov.

The West takes it.

[EmptyOne]

What kind of tanks?

Choice of any tank produced by that nation during the war?

Choice of tanks produced by that nation at the beginning of the war?

Any tank by any nation from the war?

[Tielhard]

Well ... The thing about generals is they nearly all have egos the size of the continental USA. So I would suggest Patton goes for Monty as he hates him personally. Rommel considers the asiatic beneath him and instead attacks the cavalry officer Zhukov. In the absence of interference from Tojo we have Monty victorious, as Patton is a no account when compared to his opponent. It is a bit of a toss up in the other bout but we probably have a Rommel victory after he has received a bad mauling from Zhukov. Tojo has a Samurai's sense of honour so instead of attacking the others whilst they are fighting he waits until they are finished, then instead of attacking the crippled Rommel he goes for Monty who disposes of him out of hand. Rommel has a different perspective on honour and takes out Monty in his moment of triumph over Tojo, only to bleed to death from Zhukov's attentions 10 minutes later. There did that sort out WWII to everyone's satisfaction?

[Mike Stearns]

What kind of tanks?

Choice of any tank produced by that nation during the war?

Choice of tanks produced by that nation at the beginning of the war?

Any tank by any nation from the war?

Patton gets a Sherman. Monty gets a Churchill. Rommel gets a Tiger I. Zhukov gets a T-34 and Tojo gets a Type 97 Shinhoto Chi-Ha.

[Agentdark]

Patton, Monty and Tojo die in 30 seconds, Zhukov and Rommel duke it out, Zhukov wins I think..............

[mattep74]

Patton gets a Sherman. Monty gets a Churchill. Rommel gets a Tiger I. Zhukov gets a T-34 and Tojo gets a Type 97 Shinhoto Chi-Ha.

Patton and Monty are toast. Isnt the japanese tank even less armoured than a Sherman? If thats the case we get Zhukov vs Rommel and Rommel emerges victorius

[Floid]

Patton and Monty are toast. Isnt the japanese tank even less armoured than a Sherman? If thats the case we get Zhukov vs Rommel and Rommel emerges victoriusIn order of armour then it's:

Tiger
Churchill
Sherman
Type 97
T34

(I think. Perhaps the Type 97 and Sherman are interchangeable.)

[NFR]

Tojo can't drive a tank, and Japanese tanks are jokes when compared to Soviet ones (or any other nation's, for that matter) - they were good at what they designed to do - supporting infantry in the broken terrain of south China, but against real tanks they are worse than a foxhole.

Oh, and tell the people of Pearl Harbour all about Tojo's sense of samurai honour, I am sure they'd be thrilled.

[Mike Stearns]

In order of armour then it's:

Tiger
Churchill
Sherman
Type 97
T34

(I think. Perhaps the Type 97 and Sherman are interchangeable.)

So you're saying that the fight will come down to Monty vs Rommel? I could buy that.

[Tielhard]

"Oh, and tell the people of Pearl Harbour all about Tojo's sense of samurai honour, I am sure they'd be thrilled."

I would appreciate it if you were to explain this remark a little more especially as it was made in response to a remark that was clearly 'tongue in cheek'. I can see no way in which Peal Harbo(u)r would negate Tojo's sense of honour. PS I don't even know for certain he was a member of a Samurai family.

[schrammy]

it is obviously depending on the stiuation the space and if they're are allowed to allie or not.

if they can allie ods increase for the allies.
if not i would say its a clear victory for rommel

not only has rommel the best tank (for this situation)
but also probarly most expiriance comanding a tank in battle, probarly monty and patton close for second most expiriance.

if they start with lets say a mile and a half distance to each other that would also be a big advantage for rommel driveing the tiger, while if they start a point blank range the slow turret turn speed would be a big disadvantage.

so it quite depends on conditions and situation, but if i would have to make a bet i would have my money on rommel or monty

[JLCook]

WWII should be fought at sea!

We'll use battleships!

Lutgens/TIRPITZ + GRAF ZEPELLIN+ PRINZ EUGEN + LUTZOW

Yamamoto/ YAMATO + HIRYU+ CHOKAI + CHIKUMA

Tovey/ KING GEAORGE V + ARK ROYAL+ BELFAST + NORFOLK

Halsey/ IOWA+ ESSEX+ DES MOINES+ NEWPORT NEWS

Russians can send as many cruisers, plus MARAT + OKTABYR REVOLUTSIA as they can scrape together

[Michael B]

Halsey/ IOWA
Tovey/ KING GEAORGE V
Yamamoto/ YAMATO
Lutgens/ TIRPITZ
Casardi/ VITTORIO VENETO
GENSOUL/ RICHELIEU

Battleships with radar defeated those without because they attack at night/in fog. Big guns good, not so big guns bad.

The Soviets get disqualified for not finished their battleship in time.

[Mike Stearns]

Also, did the Soviets even have air craft carriers during WWII?

[JLCook]

Also, did the Soviets even have air craft carriers during WWII?

Since the Soviets didn't have carriers and didn't complete SOVIETSKI SOYUZ, I was going to let them bring whatever they coul;d scrape together.

Also, Brits get to fly whatever aircraft they had available in 1943, seeing as how I specified IOWA, ESSEX, DES MOINES, and Lutgens (who was already dead) as well as Yamamoto (who might also be dead, depending on when this thing happens).

[JLCook]

In order of armour then it's:

Tiger
Churchill
Sherman
Type 97
T34

(I think. Perhaps the Type 97 and Sherman are interchangeable.)


I would rank them:

TIGER pzkw VIa
T34/85
M4a3e8
Churchill










T97

And I would factor in gun, automotive ability, AND Armor.

Furthermore, Patton can have an M46 if he want's one. A few made it into the war.

[Ramp-Rat]

If Patton can have a M46 as a few where made during the war, then Monty gets a 17lb armed Centurion, and Zhukov gets a JS I and Rommle the King Tiger. :D

[JLCook]

If Patton can have a M46 as a few where made during the war, then Monty gets a 17lb armed Centurion, and Zhukov gets a JS I and Rommle the King Tiger. :D

Give everyone a full tank of fuel, and the tanks DON'T get any special overhauls or repairs prior to issue either.

The Pzkw VIB got dismal fuel economy and broke down often. The Russians might still do better with a T34.85, as the JS 1, II or III were likewise fairly slow,

[NFR]

"Oh, and tell the people of Pearl Harbour all about Tojo's sense of samurai honour, I am sure they'd be thrilled."

I would appreciate it if you were to explain this remark a little more especially as it was made in response to a remark that was clearly 'tongue in cheek'. I can see no way in which Peal Harbo(u)r would negate Tojo's sense of honour. PS I don't even know for certain he was a member of a Samurai family.

What, you can't see how authorizing a sneak attack was in the best traditions of the samurai?

[Tielhard]

"What, you can't see how authorizing a sneak attack was in the best traditions of the samurai?"

It is my understand, which may be untrue as I learnt it from a film, that the Japanese intended to deliver a declaration of war immediately prior to the attack on Pearl Harbo(u)r. They failed to do so through incompetence intent. If so, then the attack was in no way dishonourable.

Even if the US film was completely wrong about Japanese intent, consider the case of the 47.

[NFR]

"What, you can't see how authorizing a sneak attack was in the best traditions of the samurai?"

It is my understand, which may be untrue as I learnt it from a film, that the Japanese intended to deliver a declaration of war immediately prior to the attack on Pearl Harbo(u)r. They failed to do so through incompetence intent. If so, then the attack was in no way dishonourable.

Even if the US film was completely wrong about Japanese intent, consider the case of the 47.

You still can't see how that, even if true, is a violation of the spirit of honour? Obviously your understanding of the term is as flexible as that of Tojo's.

But nevermind! Sneak attacks are in the best traditions of the samurai. Just look at the sengoku jidai. It is full of them.

[Tielhard]

"You still can't see how that, even if true, is a violation of the spirit of honour? Obviously your understanding of the term is as flexible as that of Tojo's."

If I were to accept your assertion, and I don't, I would have to conclude that the USA is even less honourable than the Japanese. How many sneak and unprovoked attacks in her short history?

The honour I was refering to long ago, tongue in cheek was single combat as opposed to melee, not picking on a weakened opponent when a fit one was available.

[Tielhard]

Anyway I don't think it is fair all this allocation of weapons is designed with too much nationalism in mind. Lets allocate weapons on a 'niceness basis'

Tojo is given a bicycle and a pop gun
Zhukov gets a ford pop and a shot gun
Rommel gets a PKfw II but because he fought for the Nazis we take off the frontal armour
Monty gets a splendid regement of Chieftains and a pipe band

and Patton ...

Patton gets staked out on the ground buck naked with a daffodil up the jacksie which is probably far too good for him!

There that seems a much fairer way to decide WWII.