XXth C: Draft Thread

[Glen]

The XXth Century: 100 years of Change

The XX is a shared worlds project that you are all invited to join. The POD is 12:00 AM on January 1, 1901. The timeline will officially end at 11:59 PM on December 31, 2000. The premise for our ATL is based essentially on Quantum Mechanics and Chaos Theory; that if you ran the same events over again those events might not have the same results. Therefore, altered events early on should only require very small changes in events, though even those small changes can have big outcomes. For example, two from 1901 will be the wounding but not death of President William McKinley, and the fatal shooting of Kaiser Wilhelm II (he was shot at in 1901, but the assassin missed, ITTL, a shot hits the mark). Obviously, as time goes on and we have many small changes (though perhaps with large results), there will also be changes from OTL that directly and indirectly stem from those changes.

There will be several threads labeled XXth C. that relate to this project. One will be a discussion thread in the Alternate History Discussion: After 1900 Forum. Two will be in the Shared Worlds Forum, a submission draft thread and the official timeline thread. Eventually, we will post our completed XXth Century timeline in the Timelines and Scenarios Forum. If you would like to contribute an event to the timeline, you place it in the draft thread. Discussion about that event should quote the event in question every time for reference, or link to the post if it is long. Suggested posts will be open for comment for two days after posting, and then will be either included into the official timeline, or not. The draft thread is also where you may submit maps for the timeline as well, which will be subjected to the same process as the posts.

Guidelines for your posts:

Nothing should be a change from before the POD.

The date of your event may be before or after the last event in the official timeline, but must not contradict anything in the official timeline.

Events must be plausible within the context of the already existing timeline, and the more probable ones will be more accepted.

Also, though a single event type may in itself be plausible, there will, at the discretion of the moderator, be limits on the numbers of similar events that occur at any given time. For example, even though any one assassination of a world leader in any year might be plausible, if everyone tried to have someone assassinated that year it would become somewhat improbable.

People conceived before the POD will be born as the same people genetically (unless someone wants to write in a miscarriage or death of a pregnant woman after the POD).

People born within the first month of the POD will be mostly the same, as they will have at least all the same genes from their maternal line, and may have a substantial number of the same ones from their father as well. Feel free to use these people as is or with differences from the OTL figures.

People born after this point who have the same or nearly the same genetic heritage will become rapidly less common, and probably will not happen after the first year. However, within the first fourteen years after the POD, there will be many people who are genetically siblings of the OTL figures who would be likely to be born, and who may have the same name as well as the same parents as the OTL originals. By 1915 or so, the fact that we likely will not have the same WWI as OTL will mean that many marriages will not happen as they did in OTL, given the death and displacements it caused in OTL. This may be stretched to 1921 for regions that were not affected by WWI and had locally stable conditions in both OTL and ITTL.

People born after 14-20 years will all be different by this point, and it will be becoming unlikely that we even see the same people marrying, except for certain extraordinary cases. What this means is that almost no OTL figure born after 1920 will be born into TTL. We may still see some related people from OTL families which have a strong tendency towards certain things, for example though you wouldn’t see any of OTL Kennedys born after 1920 (or even before), related Kennedys born after that time might very well still go into politics.

Feel free to change weather conditions, these are rather chaotic. However, they should still conform roughly to normal climates and trends; having a hurricane in late March or an ice storm in New England in July is pretty much out, for examples.

Science and discoveries can happen at a roughly different pace, and in different places if the work is done to explain those differences, but should either be simple things or should have preceding events that build up to them described. Where not specifically mention, assume a progression roughly similar to our own timeline, though I hope that instead, people will give us both faster and slower progressions. For example, penicillin really could have been discovered at any point in the early 20th century or the Atomic bomb might have been delayed without OTL WWII.

Welcome to the XXth Century…

Glen Finney, Proprietor

XXth C: Timeline (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=27830)

XXth C: Discussion Thread (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=27831)

[Glen]

Do me a favor and send me a notice via PM if you have posted new events here. Thanks.

[Glen]

XXth Century Draft Thread now cleared and ready for new events for the XXth Century Timeline.

Yes, its a monster, but there are still many unexplored regions, tantalizing loose ends, and other matters to flesh out.

Become part of the phenomenon!

Don't you want to contribute to a timeline that has Senator Bogart, famous screenwriter HP Lovecraft, and the Quentin Roosevelt Space Center?

[Tom Veil]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have yet to post an entry on the invention of the Transistor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor#History). I propose that the big breakthrough, point-contact transistors, happen around 1934 (OTL 1947) and that the bipolar junction and transistor radio follow in 1941 (OTL 1950 and 1953). It seems like the ability to invent transistors was around in 1900, but that vacuum tubes were deemed far more practical until war (in XXth, the Global War) highlighted vacuum tubes' shortcomings.

[Glen]

No time to go through everything now. But glad to see more entries being developed.

We will not be retconning the one Kennedy presidency nor the QR governorship. Quite frankly, the only thing in the timeline thus far that I am tempted to retcon is the fate of Afghanistan, though even there I'm thinking of perhaps writing more events that shift the seeming events in Afghanistan to a more realistic version of events.

I thought we had a transistor event...might have been Tesla. I'll have to check on that.

[Glen]

March 1975: Second term Massachusetts Senator James Cabot (distantly related to the Cabot Lodges) resigns for health reasons. The Legislature appoints Ted Parell Senator.

Seems unlikely that an unelected individual who just was defeated for office, no matter how charismatic, would be appointed Senator (and I think it might be the Governor who fills vacancies, not the Legislature, though someone could check on that for us).

[Glen]

October 1977: Hayloft, working with former political rival Senator Parell authors the Hayloft-Parell Labor Reform bill, with at the same time undoes labor and bussiness restrictions. For once all sides appear to be happy, and the economy is given a small boost.

A couple problems with this. First, even assuming Parell gets appointed Senator, freshman Senators do not typically author much less have named after them major pieces of legislation. Second, Labor Secretaries really don't author legislation or have legislation named after them (though they can come up with the ideas, that the president then pushes through the Congress).

I think if you want this in this timeframe, you need to find a more senior member of Congress to push it, and Hayloft would need the President's support. And it would be named something different.


July 1980: Hayloft and fellow Individualists hold a convenetion in San Antonio. Hayloft is nominated as president, and former Texas Lt. Governor Eduardo Santana is nominated as vice president. The inclusion of a hispanic candidate improves the already strong pro Individualist movement in the southwest.


YOU SPELLED CANDIDATE RIGHT! HOORAY!!!!:D :D :D

[reformer]

Ok, then just have Parell be a major supporter and behind the scenes author, and have Hayloft convince the president to support.

Other then that. . . do the events work?

i can't believe you still remember that spelling mistake

[reformer]

Seems unlikely that an unelected individual who just was defeated for office, no matter how charismatic, would be appointed Senator (and I think it might be the Governor who fills vacancies, not the Legislature, though someone could check on that for us).

The governor is also governor (another event I added) and Parell is a farily public figure in a hightly publicized race.

I figure its a nice little political change to have the media give lots of attention to a local election, and the president's daughter vs. two very appealing dark horse candidates could capture the minds of the nation. Also, I'm going to add a few events to back up Parell.

[Glen]

Ok, then just have Parell be a major supporter and behind the scenes author, and have Hayloft convince the president to support.

Seems a bit quickly after that that they clash.


Other then that. . . do the events work?

Other than these two, they have all been added to the Timelines and Scenarios timeline.


i can't believe you still remember that spelling mistake

You did it a lot, my friend.:rolleyes:

[Glen]

The governor is also governor (another event I added) and Parell is a farily public figure in a hightly publicized race.

I figure its a nice little political change to have the media give lots of attention to a local election, and the president's daughter vs. two very appealing dark horse candidates could capture the minds of the nation. Also, I'm going to add a few events to back up Parell.

The governor is also governor?:confused:

Its just so fast. It would be much more plausible for him to be appointed to a vacated seat in the House of Representatives. A Senate seat is a BIG deal.

[Glen]

bump bump bump

[reformer]

Glen, of the events I recently submitted, which ones did you include, and which ones did you delete?

Just asking so I can fix up the problem events.

Also, is something wrong with thre thread searcher? I'm trying to locate politicians I've used in the past, and names like Hayloft or Swing aren't getting any hits.

[reformer]

Oh, and in response to your questioning Parell gettin in bed with Hayloft soon after the clash, the answer is that there is a growing alliance between Individualist Republicans and the growing states rights Democratic movement (which is really just Urban Populism in this TL). I should add more events about these movements.

As for Parell as a candidate, well I'll beef him up a bit in between. Remmember that both the legislature and the governor are temporarily Democrat, but this is a rare rare phenomina in Massachusetts politics. Parell is the only person from the faction who has grabbed the media attention at all. Also, the Darn administration upswing in Massachusetts is comming down. Speaking of which, I tried to find the Governor Darn event, and I couldn't. . . do you remmember if you included it?

[Blackbeard]

1982- After reports of increase in talent in the Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Oakland, and Los Angeles areas, the Blue Sox move their Baton Rouge team to Los Angeles

1987- Investor Charles McLean puts money into the team, trying to draw attention towards a "jackpot cross-city rivalry in Los Angeles"

1990- Ernest D. Smith helps McLean fund the Los Angeles team

1992- The Los Angles Aces are finally officiated as a Continental League team. To balance out, a Zapatista farm team in Houston, Texas nicknamed the Eagles is renamed the Oilers and meagerly funded by the league.

[reformer]

1982- After reports of increase in talent in the Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Oakland, and Los Angeles areas, the Blue Sox move their Baton Rouge team to Los Angeles

1987- Investor Charles McLean puts money into the team, trying to draw attention towards a "jackpot cross-city rivalry in Los Angeles"

1990- Ernest D. Smith helps McLean fund the Los Angeles team

1992- The Los Angles Aces are finally officiated as a Continental League team. To balance out, a Zapatista farm team in Houston, Texas nicknamed the Eagles is renamed the Oilers and meagerly funded by the league.

Could you provide months for these events?

[Glen]

Glen, of the events I recently submitted, which ones did you include, and which ones did you delete?

Just asking so I can fix up the problem events.

Also, is something wrong with thre thread searcher? I'm trying to locate politicians I've used in the past, and names like Hayloft or Swing aren't getting any hits.

I included all of them with some minor tweaks (not the meaning, just made some details fuzzy for better plausibility) except for the two below, which have not been deleted, just holding for my previous concerns and for clarifications.

These are the ones I have on hold:

March 1975: Second term Massachusetts Senator James Cabot (distantly related to the Cabot Lodges) resigns for health reasons. The Legislature appoints Ted Parell Senator.

October 1977: Hayloft, working with former political rival Senator Parell authors the Hayloft-Parell Labor Reform bill, with at the same time undoes labor and bussiness restrictions. For once all sides appear to be happy, and the economy is given a small boost.

[Glen]

Also, is something wrong with thre thread searcher? I'm trying to locate politicians I've used in the past, and names like Hayloft or Swing aren't getting any hits.

Don't know why the problem with Swing. It appears to work for me. Several of the events that I had edited in disappeared.:mad: I blame the trouble I had with the internet that night. I have started work correcting that.

[Glen]

1982- After reports of increase in talent in the Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Oakland, and Los Angeles areas, the Blue Sox move their Baton Rouge team to Los Angeles.

Wouldn't they just recruit there? I don't know that a team would move someplace to tap into talent.


1987- Investor Charles McLean puts money into the team, trying to draw attention towards a "jackpot cross-city rivalry in Los Angeles"

1990- Ernest D. Smith helps McLean fund the Los Angeles team

1992- The Los Angles Aces are finally officiated as a Continental League team. To balance out, a Zapatista farm team in Houston, Texas nicknamed the Eagles is renamed the Oilers and meagerly funded by the league.

Other than that, it seems that these would be okay to me, though I await comment from our other members before inclusion.

[Tom Veil]

1982- After reports of increase in talent in the Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Oakland, and Los Angeles areas, the Blue Sox move their Baton Rouge team to Los Angeles

1987- Investor Charles McLean puts money into the team, trying to draw attention towards a "jackpot cross-city rivalry in Los Angeles"

1990- Ernest D. Smith helps McLean fund the Los Angeles team

1992- The Los Angles Aces are finally officiated as a Continental League team. To balance out, a Zapatista farm team in Houston, Texas nicknamed the Eagles is renamed the Oilers and meagerly funded by the league.
Whoa, since when did the Boston Blue Sox move to Baton Rouge? It's not in the time line. (And it's a daft move anyway, since New Orleans already has a team).
And why would a professional sports team, in the age of airlines, move the whole darn team to be closer to talent base? Why not just send scouts, then pick up the players in the high school draft?

And why, in 1992, would a professional sport be so cheap as to create a patsy team? There's way more money in an independent franchise. Don't cite the Expos, either -- MLB only did that because they were trying to pressure the Canadian government; they lost tons on money on the adventure.

[Glen]

Whoa, since when did the Boston Blue Sox move to Baton Rouge? It's not in the time line. (And it's a daft move anyway, since New Orleans already has a team).
And why would a professional sports team, in the age of airlines, move the whole darn team to be closer to talent base? Why not just send scouts, then pick up the players in the high school draft?

And why, in 1992, would a professional sport be so cheap as to create a patsy team? There's way more money in an independent franchise. Don't cite the Expos, either -- MLB only did that because they were trying to pressure the Canadian government; they lost tons on money on the adventure.


Tom, anything that you can work with Blackbeard on in all this?

[reformer]

Glen, what is the status of date rules? Originally most of our events just had a generall year, but lately we have been switching over more towardes specific dates or months. Months tend to add better order IMO.

[Glen]

Glen, what is the status of date rules? Originally most of our events just had a generall year, but lately we have been switching over more towardes specific dates or months. Months tend to add better order IMO.

Specific dates preferred where appropriate, but not necessary.

[reformer]

June 1905: Thomas Stearns Elliot applies and is rejected from Harvard. Later attempts to get into Princetotn and Yale also fail. He eventually agrees to attend a local college on a complete scholarship, partially due to the influence of his banker father.

September 1909: T.S. Elliot, graduating top of his class, considers going into bussiness with his father or going into law school. These options have little appeal for him, so he eventually decides to enroll in a Methodist Seminary.

[Glen]

June 1905: Thomas Stearns Elliot applies and is rejected from Harvard. Later attempts to get into Princetotn and Yale also fail. He eventually agrees to attend a local college on a complete scholarship, partially due to the influence of his banker father.

September 1909: T.S. Elliot, graduating top of his class, considers going into bussiness with his father or going into law school. These options have little appeal for him, so he eventually decides to enroll in a Methodist Seminary.

I have no problem with you having him going elsewhere, but it seems odd to have him simply being rejected from three different Ivy League schools. You need something else here, something butterflyish but important.

[Tom Veil]

June 1905: Thomas Stearns Elliot applies and is rejected from Harvard. Later attempts to get into Princetotn and Yale also fail. He eventually agrees to attend a local college on a complete scholarship, partially due to the influence of his banker father.

Why didn't his father do what he did in OTL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._S._Eliot#Early_life_and_education), and place his son in the Milton Academy for a year to prepare him for Harvard?

[reformer]

Why didn't his father do what he did in OTL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._S._Eliot#Early_life_and_education), and place his son in the Milton Academy for a year to prepare him for Harvard?

I'm aware of his OTL educational conditions. My concept was that he was simply a worse student in his early years. He would not have gone to Milton if he had not been excepted into Harvard. My goal is to take him a very different path from OTL. He won't live in Europe, and for that matter he'll be a minister. There isn't enough religious history in this TL.

[Tom Veil]

Fair enough. 5 years is enough time for his grades to slip. And you're right that we could use more religious history. Perhaps I'll write up some events in which C.S. Lewis remains an atheist...

[Glen]

I'm aware of his OTL educational conditions. My concept was that he was simply a worse student in his early years. He would not have gone to Milton if he had not been excepted into Harvard. My goal is to take him a very different path from OTL. He won't live in Europe, and for that matter he'll be a minister. There isn't enough religious history in this TL.

Fair enough. 5 years is enough time for his grades to slip. And you're right that we could use more religious history. Perhaps I'll write up some events in which C.S. Lewis remains an atheist...


Its not enough without some reason why he'd slip. This just seems arbitrary, especially so early in the timeline.

[reformer]

Spring 1903: Thomas Stearns Elliot asks out his current crush, and launches what he believed was a glorious love affair, but was in reality a rather pitiful teen fling. His focus begins to switch, and his grades begin to drop.

October 1903: Thomas Elliot's girlfriend dumps him. He broods for a few weeks, leading to another less than spectacular semester.

[Glen]

Spring 1903: Thomas Stearns Elliot asks out his current crush, and launches what he believed was a glorious love affair, but was in reality a rather pitiful teen fling. His focus begins to switch, and his grades begin to drop.

October 1903: Thomas Elliot's girlfriend dumps him. He broods for a few weeks, leading to another less than spectacular semester.

Suggest slight rewrite for tone, too informal as currently written.

Also suggest instead of 'pitiful teen fling' it be something darker, and have him go into a full blown depression afterward. That indeed might be enough to derail his education as desired.

[reformer]

Sorry Glen, for my Emperor of Jerusalem TL I've been purposefully more informal. I'll get it back into shape.

Spring 1903: Thomas Stearns Elliot asks out his current crush, and becomes increasingly obsessed with her every move, while focusing less on school work.

October 1903: Thomas Elliot's girlfriend dumps him because she becomes scared. He broods for a few week.

November 1903: Elliot's ex girlfriend goes out with someone else, and Elliot, claiming that she was cheating on him, falls into depression, which hurts his grades both that semester and the next.

April 1904: Thomas Elliot moves on with his life, giving religion credit for breaking out of his depression.

Is that dark enough for you Glen? Well, T.S. Elliots poems are very strange, I could see him taking a breakup hard.

[Tom Veil]

www.etymonline.com (http://www.etymonline.com) dates the word "boyfriend" to 1908; I would assume that "girlfriend" is of similarly recent vintage. "crush" in the romantic sense dates to 1913. "cheat" in the romantic sense dates to 1934. In other words, I'd recommend rewriting it with an eye to the more formal language -- and more strictly controlled romances -- of the early 1900s.

[reformer]

www.etymonline.com (http://www.etymonline.com) dates the word "boyfriend" to 1908; I would assume that "girlfriend" is of similarly recent vintage. "crush" in the romantic sense dates to 1913. "cheat" in the romantic sense dates to 1934. In other words, I'd recommend rewriting it with an eye to the more formal language -- and more strictly controlled romances -- of the early 1900s.
your good. Your very good.

[Tom Veil]

I'm a lawyer. I nitpick for a living. :D

[reformer]

Its really very weird in a way how different this project is now then it used to be. Tom, your definately a great addition here.

Originally I was a huge war mongering blow hard, well I'm still a blow hard, but I'm much milder now. Glen's ever more appropriately by the book. Perd used to dominate the board with such detail that Glen and I were put to shame.

And then, even before that, Luakel presented a much more radical and similar TL, as opposed to the very particular Othniel. Yikes alot of time has passed here.

Not that its even a zillionth as active as it used to be. Say Tom, you mentioned C.S. Louis events. . . I'd be very curious to see those. Maybe breath some life into this TL again.

[Blackbeard]

Tom! You argued against the baseball events, what do you suggest, as I'd like to keep them because they are part of a greater change.

OBEY THE MUNICIPALITY
Currently Listening to:Heart Full of Black by Burning Brides

[Tom Veil]

Tom! You argued against the baseball events, what do you suggest, as I'd like to keep them because they are part of a greater change.


How about this?


June 1987: The Continental League forms an exploratory committee to consider the business possibilities of adding two expansion teams.
January 1990: The Continental League identifies its top two choices for expansion: Los Angeles and Houston. Investor Charles McLean pushed heavily for the second LA team, seeing "a jackpot cross-city rivalry in Los Angeles" with the National League's Zapatistas. McLean is rewarded for his efforts when an ownership group led by him and Ernest D. Smith are awarded the franchise for the Los Angeles Aces. A number of retired executives from Texas's booming petrol-to-plastics industry are awarded the Houston franchise, which they name the Oilers.
March 1992: The Los Angeles Aces and Houston Oilers begin play in the Continental League; the Aces play in the CL West and the Oilers in the CL East.

[Tom Veil]

The POD is basically delaying the death of CS Lewis's mother, so that he becomes an atheist a few years later, when he's less likely to change back. Here's the first half; I'd like input before I keep going.

September 1913: Clive Staples Lewis begins studying at Lurgan College. He writes his mother almost daily with allegories about school life; these become the basis for Lewis's first novel, The Learned. Lewis is somewhat shy when he begins school, but he will overcome it and eventually become the ace of Lurgan's debate team.

September 1916: Clive Lewis begins school at Oxford, on full scholarship. Lewis finds life among the English upper class very intimidating. A fellow Irishman, Professor William Butler Yeats, takes the boy under his wing.

November 1917-March 1918: Clive Lewis's mother dies. Clive is inconsolable and returns home to Ireland. While there, he writes his darkest work, Winter of Our Discontent, and becomes an atheist. Professor Yeats eventually convinces Clive to re-enroll in Oxford.

June 1918: Clive Lewis meets J. R. R. Tolkien, who is conducting doctoral research on etymology at Oxford. They become close friends almost immediately.

April 1922: J. R. R. Tolkien writes in his diary, "I would swear that [Clive] is the Devil himself. I would have thought no man alive could make me doubt my faith for even a moment, but now when he ribs me by calling Jesus 'Gilgamesh of Nazareth', a moment passes before I regain my senses..."

[Glen]

Tom' CS Lewis stuff seems reasonable to me.

[Glen]

I'm going to have to remember to edit this stuff into the timeline officially in a bit.

[reformer]

Its a bit of a pity that this tl never made it. It got so complicated that I'm not sure it ever really could have been completed.

[Glen]

Its a bit of a pity that this tl never made it. It got so complicated that I'm not sure it ever really could have been completed.

I think it 'made it'. While I would have liked it more fleshed out in the second half of the XXth Century, and if the Nukings in Afghanistan hadn't slipped in (I still don't understand that one), I think its pretty good.