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View Full Version : AHC: The "Juggernaut" for real--Russo-Turkish alliance before 1900?


Kaiphranos
March 25th, 2013, 11:27 PM
From time to time I've dabbled in the game Diplomacy, which features the European powers of the late 19th/early 20th century competing for control of the continent. One fairly popular and effective strategy is an alliance between Russia and Turkey, sometimes referred to as "the Juggernaut" for its ability to roll over the western powers.

Now I realize that in real life, a Russo-Turkish alliance in that era would have been strange bedfellows indeed, so here's my challenge: with a POD no later than the end of the Napoleonic Wars, present a plausible scenario whereby Russia and Turkey end up on the same side of a major war around 1900. Bonus points if your POD is after 1870!

slydessertfox
March 25th, 2013, 11:31 PM
From time to time I've dabbled in the game Diplomacy, which features the European powers of the late 19th/early 20th century competing for control of the continent. One fairly popular and effective strategy is an alliance between Russia and Turkey, sometimes referred to as "the Juggernaut" for its ability to roll over the western powers.

Now I realize that in real life, a Russo-Turkish alliance in that era would have been strange bedfellows indeed, so here's my challenge: with a POD no later than the end of the Napoleonic Wars, present a plausible scenario whereby Russia and Turkey end up on the same side of a major war around 1900. Bonus points if your POD is after 1870!

France for whatever reason declares war on Russia and the Ottoman Empire.

birdboy2000
March 26th, 2013, 12:01 AM
The Ottomans and Russians for much of their history have two significant neighbors in common; Austria (later Austria-Hungary) and Persia. OTL, they hated each other more than they wanted Persian land, and Russia had few major gripes with Austria, let alone ones big enough to ally with the hated Turk against fellow Christians with.

But it's conceivable that the two countries would find their interests dovetailing against a sufficiently strong or resurgent Persia with the Ottomans supporting Russian interests in Central Asia and the Caucasus in exchange for either Azerbaijan or just no more Persian attacks on Iraq. After all, the Ottomans fought the Persians nearly as often as they did the Russians.

Alternatively, the Ottomans and Russians team up against Napoleon.

Kome
March 26th, 2013, 12:11 AM
Before the Crimean War, Russia and the Ottomans seemed to be making some real headway in a restart in relations. During Mohammad Ali's first syrian war, it was Russia who supported the Ottomans, while France and Britain supported the Egyptian revolt. They even signed a mutual defense treaty soon afterwards, that also started addressing the question of the straits.

Unfortunately, Russia was diplomatically unlucky and soon lost the alliance since the Ottomans had managed to repair relations with Britain and France. And then the Russias got their faces punched in during hte Crimean war.

I made a thread here (http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=202575) with a similar premise.