Invasion USA-film(l952)

[edvader]

This "film" is about a hypothetical invasion of US by the Commies. They first attack Alaska and go on from there in a ludicrous way. I do't mind the theory but the way it was done. What do you think of them (1)ABombing Hoover Dam with the lake gushing out-not possible it would be vapor. (2) Bombing air fields, etc with the Armed Froces asleep.? Third: Congress, Joint Chiefs and the President are in DC? Last NEw York being H-bombed and no damage as the Soviets march in and take over including TV. What say you?

[wkwillis]

This "film" is about a hypothetical invasion of US by the Commies. They first attack Alaska and go on from there in a ludicrous way. I do't mind the theory but the way it was done. What do you think of them (1)ABombing Hoover Dam with the lake gushing out-not possible it would be vapor. (2) Bombing air fields, etc with the Armed Froces asleep.? Third: Congress, Joint Chiefs and the President are in DC? Last NEw York being H-bombed and no damage as the Soviets march in and take over including TV. What say you?

Well, in 1952 they might attack Alaska to get range for their bombers to get to the US. I think they had their B29 copy by then and if they were able to capture an airfield with the fuel tanks intact, then they could make it the rest of the way.
If you nuke Hoover Dam with a dinky little 20 megaton bomb like a B29 carries, it would not vaporise Lake Mead. Lake Mead is 120 miles long. It had had 14 years to fill so it would go down the river in an impressive flood and restore Lake Coahilla on the way. But why would they?
Yes, you could time your attack to get everybody in DC.
They did not have the logistics to invade NYC in 1952.

[Adam Parsons]

Say, what the heck happened to NATO in this movie? In this time period, I can't see them standing by and letting the USA get destroyed. Chances are that the Soviets have pulled enough stuff into the Far East that the British and the French (and maybe the Germans) could have a swipe at Eastern Europe and stand a reasonable chance of success. Also, what are the Soviets going to do with Japan and South Korea? It would seem kinda stupid to leave those two uncowed.

[zoomar]

We're not talking about an Oscar contender here. My main recollection (if I'm thinking of the same movie) is of a lot of guys in fakey uniforms marching and running in front of big photo blow ups of national landmarks, etc, and "H-bombs" going off on flat photos of cities. Really great production values and a cast of 12.

[Tetsu]

If you nuke Hoover Dam with a dinky little 20 megaton bomb like a B29 carries, it would not vaporise Lake Mead. Lake Mead is 120 miles long. It had had 14 years to fill so it would go down the river in an impressive flood and restore Lake Coahilla on the way.

You would be surprised. A 20 megaton bomb is not "dinky" by any means. The test the US did named "Castle Romeo" vaporized 80 million pounds of dirt, and it was only a single megaton. Multiply that by twenty... and you`ve got a horrendously big bomb. The Bikini Atoll H-Bomb was fifteen megatons, and the fireball alone was four miles wide. The Soviets have been known possess a bomb that yields 100 megatons; enough to destroy 800 million pounds of earth.

Of course, I think you just had a typo and meant 20 kilotons. :D

[wkwillis]

1. 80 million pounds of dirt vaporised is about equal to 80 million pounds of water vaporised. The temperature is higher but the heat of vaporisation is within an order of magnitude.
2. 80 million pounds times 20 is about 1,600 million pounds.
3. 1,600 million pounds is about 800 thousand tons.
4. One ton of water is about one cubic yard.
5. One million cubic yards is 100 by 100 by 100 yards.
6. Lake Mead is 750 feet deep at the dam, a mile wide, and about one hundred miles long, depending on how much water is in it, was it a wet year, etc.
Think of a twenty megaton bomb as vaporising a quantity of water equivalent to a very large office building, or a small shopping mall.
It would take out the dam, of course. So would a one kiloton bomb behind the dam maybe a hundred feet deep. Drive across the dam, knock down the fence, push your car with trunk bomb into the water, drive off with your friend, and goodby Mexicali.
Makes you wonder if they have water level sensors hooked up to the river to give people a little warning if it goes. I would.

[Linkwerk]

I thought "Invasion USA" was that horrible 80's movie with chuck norris where some vague "bad guy" (arab/cuban/commie/terrorists) attack florida and it's up to chuck to save freedom, jesus, and apple pie....

[edvader]

Yes, the film was in 1952. It had BOTH Lois Lanes but in different scenes. There were no more than 8 major roles in cluding MR OHMAN(get it?) This was done very cheaply as over half the film was armed forces training films. Dan Oherlihy played the forecaster and probably never lived it down. I do not see the armed forces doing nothing when the enemy invades Alaska. Come on now.

[robertp6165]

You would be surprised. A 20 megaton bomb is not "dinky" by any means. The test the US did named "Castle Romeo" vaporized 80 million pounds of dirt, and it was only a single megaton. Multiply that by twenty... and you`ve got a horrendously big bomb. The Bikini Atoll H-Bomb was fifteen megatons, and the fireball alone was four miles wide. The Soviets have been known possess a bomb that yields 100 megatons; enough to destroy 800 million pounds of earth.

Of course, I think you just had a typo and meant 20 kilotons. :D

Well, nothing not inside the fireball would be "vaporized." It is certainly not going to vaporize a 120 mile long lake.

[Pax Britannia]

I thought "Invasion USA" was that horrible 80's movie with chuck norris where some vague "bad guy" (arab/cuban/commie/terrorists) attack florida and it's up to chuck to save freedom, jesus, and apple pie....

Sounds allot like the 80's film 'Red Dawn'

WOLVERINES!!!!!

[Linkwerk]

WOLVERINES!

God, that movie rules....

[Tetsu]

Well, nothing not inside the fireball would be "vaporized." It is certainly not going to vaporize a 120 mile long lake.

Well, that`s certainly true. But it would lower the water a lot. Probably over thirty feet, at the very least. How deep is Lake Meade?

[Psychomeltdown]

why would you nuke a dam anyway? not when you plan on ruling the place,a city, sure, but a dam? just a waste of a nuke. especially when Las Vegas is just over the bend. This is why the Commies lost the Cold War, wasteful!

[Tetsu]

It`s a matter of strategy, in my opinion. Think about it; Hoover Dam generates quite a bit of electricity; the majority (IIRC) of power for that whole area. If I was going to invade a country, I would take out as many energy plants as possible, whether they were hydroelectric, nuclear, or otherwise. The more power plants you can knock out, the less the enemy will be able to respond to your invasion. The outright nuking of Las Vegas and other such places (cities, basically) would not be in your best interest as the invader.

Now, granted, a nuke in Hoover Dam may be a bit much; I would probably just use a volley of non-nuclear warheads on ICBMs. Same result, no radiation.

[wkwillis]

Hoover Dam is 500 to 750 feet high, so that is how deep the lake is at it's deepest point. Knocking down a dam like that is going to take a pressure wave in the water from behind, close by, or a fireball that uses gamma to heat the cement enough for it to fail. Obviously a pressure wave from in front is just going to unstress the dam, not overstress it. Though it might make the dam 'bounce' and cause the cement to crack under tension.
Taking out the powerhouse would knock it out for a couple of months till they built and installed new turbines and generators. A tactical nuke would do that. Smaller, lighter, and cheaper. Do you want to occupy the US or reduce it's industrial capacity?
If the Russians invaded Alaska the US did not have the logistical resources to take it back except by a landing or a slow approach down the AlCan highway. The Russians would presumably have taken it by a sub rosa approach using troops on freighters. One to Anchorage and another to Juneau. Maybe Valdez as well.

[Adam Parsons]

Why do you need a nuke for Hoover Dam? Why can't you just take it out with a dozen Kirov airships on a bombing run?

Whoops, wrong reality.

[Ivan Druzhkov]

I finally saw the MST3K-ed version of this movie a few weeks ago. Man, the cutscenes in Red Alert 2 had better acting. Thank god for Mike and the bots...

Well, nothing not inside the fireball would be "vaporized." It is certainly not going to vaporize a 120 mile long lake.
While most of the lake would still be there after the initial blast, I'd expect some flood water to get boiled off as it flows towards the blast site. Still, it is a pretty big lake, so there'd still be a flood anyway. Heck, didn't the government test this when they were nuking atolls back in the '60's?

[edvader]

Is this on DVD?Love to get a DVD with Invasion USA and Captive Women-the last was a film about atomic destroyed New York one thousand years from now!BTW-If a h-bomb was dropped on NYC-Rockefeller Center-wouldn't there be a BIG crater and radioactivity.How the H -no pun intended would the Commies march into the city?

[Ivan Druzhkov]

Here you are, my man. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000633TG/102-7263508-9777733?v=glance&n=130&n=507846&s=dvd&v=glance) If you want to get ahold of the MST3K version, the best I can give you is a DVD copy of a taped episode here (http://members.cox.net/collectortrading/MST3K/mst3kdvds.htm) (look for episode 602). The quality isn't that great, so hopefully Rhino Video will release it someday.

[edvader]

Thanks, I will try and see if I can get it!

[pisces74]

WOLVERINES!

God, that movie rules....

yes indeed, coulda been Floridains in the everglades though, however I'm biased ;)

[Chris Oakley]

Here you are, my man. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000633TG/102-7263508-9777733?v=glance&n=130&n=507846&s=dvd&v=glance) If you want to get ahold of the MST3K version, the best I can give you is a DVD copy of a taped episode here (http://members.cox.net/collectortrading/MST3K/mst3kdvds.htm) (look for episode 602). The quality isn't that great, so hopefully Rhino Video will release it someday.

I saw a DVD of this movie from Synapse Home Video....spooky stuff.