Should we have a Pioneer Wagon in Berkeley?

[Matt]

It has been suggested that we recieve more supplies once we reach our site near Berkeley. A sort of a reward from the ASBs for organizing ourselves for the move. Some think this is cop out, others feel it's ness. to move us beyond substience levels.

Poll follows

[Doctor What]

How much weight can these wagons carry? I want to know what you mean by 'filled'.

[Matt]

4 short tons, and it needs 4 horses or 8 oxens to pull.

By communal animals I mean we get an extra 80 or so draft animals to move the damn things.

[SionEwig]

I am guessing that you mean per family here.

And 1000 lbs is not as much as you might think, especially if the decision is for x number of days of food per family.

Using the lightest food I could find that would still give the proper nutrition I came up with the following numbers:

75 lbs/30 days for adults (3000 calaries/day)
50 lbs/30 days for older children (2000 calaries/day)
37.5 lbs/30 days for younger children (1500 calaries/day)

So for 2 adults it would be 300 lbs 60 days of food.

For my family of 2 adults, 2 older and 2 younger children it would be 650 lbs for 60 days.

And poor Ward probably couldn't manage it with his big clan.

We need to decide how much food per family should be strongly suggested in the ASB resupply.

[Ward]

I am guessing that you mean per family here.

And 1000 lbs is not as much as you might think, especially if the decision is for x number of days of food per family.

Using the lightest food I could find that would still give the proper nutrition I came up with the following numbers:

75 lbs/30 days for adults (3000 calaries/day)
50 lbs/30 days for older children (2000 calaries/day)
37.5 lbs/30 days for younger children (1500 calaries/day)

So for 2 adults it would be 300 lbs 60 days of food.

For my family of 2 adults, 2 older and 2 younger children it would be 650 lbs for 60 days.

And poor Ward probably couldn't manage it with his big clan.

We need to decide how much food per family should be strongly suggested in the ASB resupply.


Well how about each aduilt recives 150 lbs of food and each child 50 lbs ,
Plus a ton of supplys per member

[SionEwig]

Well how about each aduilt recives 150 lbs of food and each child 50 lbs ,
Plus a ton of supplys per member

If you change that to 60 days per person what ever size they are then great. My kids will be and have been working. I don't know about other peoples children/grandchildren (naturally I wouldn't expect anyone under say 5 do really do much productive yet.)

And just to clarify this, when you say per member that would be what I have been referring to as a family group? (My family group of 6 would be one member, right? and Flocc and his SO would be 1 family/1 member, right?)

[Dave Howery]

Hmmm... at first glance, it seems like 'cheating'... but if it means we'll all die if we don't get it, then hell, let's cheat. However, what say we limit our 'drop' to food and seeds.... no more other gear... we won't starve, but working our way to a stable colonial economy will still be a challenge...

[Othniel]

If the ASBa don't plant it for us then I'll take seeds and food.

[Ghost 88]

Hmmm... at first glance, it seems like 'cheating'... but if it means we'll all die if we don't get it, then hell, let's cheat. However, what say we limit our 'drop' to food and seeds.... no more other gear... we won't starve, but working our way to a stable colonial economy will still be a challenge...
I was thinking exchanging the heavier stuff plows and such for food at the original site and having a standard package of the heavier items at site 2 this would make the move to site 2 less of a circle jerk than it will become any way.

[pisces74]

Hmmm... at first glance, it seems like 'cheating'... but if it means we'll all die if we don't get it, then hell, let's cheat. However, what say we limit our 'drop' to food and seeds.... no more other gear... we won't starve, but working our way to a stable colonial economy will still be a challenge...

Personally IMO we should be fine for food once we hit the bayside (barring native unrest) If we have a drop at all, just make it a tonnage drop, so we can get an idea per weight what we have, but IMO having a drop at all takes the "gamble" out of the first month (IMO)

[Norbert]

Personally IMO we should be fine for food once we hit the bayside (barring native unrest) If we have a drop at all, just make it a tonnage drop, so we can get an idea per weight what we have, but IMO having a drop at all takes the "gamble" out of the first month (IMO)

Think of it the cheese at the end of the maze. Unfortunatly the next maze doesn't have any cheese at its end...

[Ward]

I think we need bith the food and other supplys .
what if we get the 150lbs of food per person and a ton of ideams per member .
There is a lot of ideams that we could use . And we realy should think of what we could use as a colony . How about more water pumps , plows , and seeds . How about everyone take 500 lbs out of there ton for the comunity use . We could make a list of iteams the coloniy needs and we could state we will take from that list .

[Ghost 88]

I think we need bith the food and other supplys .
what if we get the 150lbs of food per person and a ton of ideams per member .
There is a lot of ideams that we could use . And we realy should think of what we could use as a colony . How about more water pumps , plows , and seeds . How about everyone take 500 lbs out of there ton for the comunity use . We could make a list of iteams the coloniy needs and we could state we will take from that list .
Maybe we could make that list then get a total wieght divide by # of wagons leave the rest for individual uses.

[Norbert]

Maybe we could make that list then get a total wieght divide by # of wagons leave the rest for individual uses.

Right. I like that idea. How much game time do we have to figure this out? And is by weight only?

[Ghost 88]

Right. I like that idea. How much game time do we have to figure this out? And is by weight only?
don't know. weight of what community needs divided by# of wagons left over weight to individual

[Dave Howery]

in my original post, we had all the time we needed, so long as we didn't deliberately dawdle and try to avoid the ISOT. We were free to look up anything we needed to know, cross check with each other and insure that we are getting a good selection of gear and food, etc. Basically, it can be assumed that we have all coordinated with each other... anything we need and didn't think of right now, we can probably assume that an NPC brought it... 'cuz if we were doing this for real, I think we'd all take a month or two planning it out... we don't get a second chance...

[jolo]

in my original post, we had all the time we needed, so long as we didn't deliberately dawdle and try to avoid the ISOT. We were free to look up anything we needed to know, cross check with each other and insure that we are getting a good selection of gear and food, etc. Basically, it can be assumed that we have all coordinated with each other... anything we need and didn't think of right now, we can probably assume that an NPC brought it... 'cuz if we were doing this for real, I think we'd all take a month or two planning it out... we don't get a second chance...

Cool - that would mean we have bull dozers, tractors, trucks, lots of gasoline, and so on...

[Ghost 88]

Cool - that would mean we have bull dozers, tractors, trucks, lots of gasoline, and so on...
no,no,no,no

[Ward]

Cool - that would mean we have bull dozers, tractors, trucks, lots of gasoline, and so on...


Why not ask for the USS Nimitz while you are at it .:eek:

[Dave Howery]

Cool - that would mean we have bull dozers, tractors, trucks, lots of gasoline, and so on...
???????? a bulldozer, a tractor, or a truck, not to mention lots of gasoline, would tie up the weight limit for dozens of families... we're stuck with a medieval tech level... horse power is literally horse power...

[Ward]

Right. I like that idea. How much game time do we have to figure this out? And is by weight only?


How about untill 20 Dec .

[jolo]

???????? a bulldozer, a tractor, or a truck, not to mention lots of gasoline, would tie up the weight limit for dozens of families... we're stuck with a medieval tech level... horse power is literally horse power...

I proposed people each bring along 100 or 200 lbs of parts to assemble such neat toys... :D

Even if we could use them only for a few months, that would be sufficient to do quite a lot...

[Norbert]

in my original post, we had all the time we needed, so long as we didn't deliberately dawdle and try to avoid the ISOT. We were free to look up anything we needed to know, cross check with each other and insure that we are getting a good selection of gear and food, etc. Basically, it can be assumed that we have all coordinated with each other... anything we need and didn't think of right now, we can probably assume that an NPC brought it... 'cuz if we were doing this for real, I think we'd all take a month or two planning it out... we don't get a second chance...

True. But We did not realize, and to late, that the load was a little to limited. Personally, I prefer the getting the wagon, loaded, minus what we already have. If we were to set out from the East Coast heading West to settle, we would have had more equipment than 1400 lbs. We would have loaded our wagons with as much as they could carry, or perish on the trip because we were ill supplied. Yes, some of the things we could take were lighter, but overall, we do not have the supplies to do much more than temporarily delay the slid down to decivilization. If we were doing it for real, we would have taken six to nine months to figure out what we were taking. The NPC brought that item we forgot? I don't think so. They would still be in the same boat, not having the supplies needed.

I brought many items that I felt were necessary for the constructing of our society, but had to leave out many many things that I felt equally valuable. If we were traveling to set up new homes, each of us would have brought a stove to heat with and cook on. Did you bring one? Did Ghost, or Matt, or Flocc, or Psycho? If not, did 5 NPCs bring 2 stoves each? I don't think so. How many people brought enough food to last three months? Everyone? I don't think so. For each family who brought 2 months food, is there a family who brought 4 months worth?

It may seem to be a cop out to gain the extra supplies, but are we to maintain and develop as a 'modern' (say, 1889-1900) society? Or were we intended to slide down to the early Iron Age? As I said, with what we have now, we will decivilize to that level within 50 years. It may seem to be a long time, but it is a very, very short time in history. So when the Europeans arrive in 4600 years, and reach where our descendents live, they will be completly indistinguishible from the other natives.

[Norbert]

I proposed people each bring along 100 or 200 lbs of parts to assemble such neat toys... :D

Even if we could use them only for a few months, that would be sufficient to do quite a lot...

I am NOT going to take anything that will only be able to be used for 'a few months', except for food. You want the damn things, take it out of your allowance, and that of anyone else who agrees with you.

[Ghost 88]

I proposed people each bring along 100 or 200 lbs of parts to assemble such neat toys... :D

Even if we could use them only for a few months, that would be sufficient to do quite a lot...
jolo the blade on a bulldozer wieghs upwards of 2tons the tracks another ton each at least more the frame is one huge piece of metal wiegh at least another 5 tons the moter wieghs a ton or more and the don't get good gas mileage at all gal. diesel 8 lbs 1000 gals 4tons see what i'm getting at

[Norbert]

Something I put on the 'So Things to Take With us Thread':

Other things I thought of bringing, but did not have room for:
Horse/Oxen drawn fire wagon with 16 cubic foot tank: Output of 1.6 cubic feet of water per minute: 350 lb
Galvanized Steel Windmill 8 foot diameter wheel with 32 foot pump rod: 335 lb (includes gearing, etc)
Steel Tower, 40 foot tall: 210 lb
Hand Pump: 45 lb
Wind mill grinder: 8- 15 bushel capacity per hour: 30 lb
Modern Hydralic Ram Pump: 30 lbs (We used one of these with a drop of 10 feet, and it was able to pump water to irrigate a field some 60 feet higher), Power is stricly provided by the pressure of the water coming in.
4 inch plastic pipe: about 10 lbs for a 10 foot section (for input of ram pump)
1 and 1/2 inch irrigation pipe: about 25 lb for 50 foot length
Straight Radiator hose and pipe clamps (for irrigation pipe), about 6 lbs per 8 sections of pipe connected
Old Fashioned Sprinkler heads: about 1/2 lb each (sprays out about 45-50 feet radius).
1/2 inch gavinized pipe, 12". and 4 foot lengths threaded both ends
1/2 inch galvinized elbow joints
Harrow (for smoothing ground for planting) about 50 lbs
Horse Collars (essential for horses to pull heavy loads like plows) 30 lbs
Chain: 40 foot lengths with heavy hooks: about 50 lbs (suitable for logging, and dragging heavy objects

[jolo]

jolo the blade on a bulldozer wieghs upwards of 2tons the tracks another ton each at least more the frame is one huge piece of metal wiegh at least another 5 tons the moter wieghs a ton or more and the don't get good gas mileage at all gal. diesel 8 lbs 1000 gals 4tons see what i'm getting at

I meant more the really cute and little ones for "home use". Good enough for me. Don't know the exact English/American name though.

Tractors the same: Lightweight, and simple.

Each shouldn't weigh more than 1000 lbs.

I like this ram pump - would solve a lot of problems...

[Ward]

I meant more the really cute and little ones for "home use". Good enough for me. Don't know the exact English/American name though.

Tractors the same: Lightweight, and simple.

Each shouldn't weigh more than 1000 lbs.

I like this ram pump - would solve a lot of problems...



go to the John Deer site and find what you are talking about than post the model and its weight.

[Straha]

What about a plague wagon filled with all sorts of modern diseases? :rolleyes:

[Norbert]

Better yet, Kubota site, if you insist on it.

[Ghost 88]

I meant more the really cute and little ones for "home use". Good enough for me. Don't know the exact English/American name though.

Tractors the same: Lightweight, and simple.

Each shouldn't weigh more than 1000 lbs.

I like this ram pump - would solve a lot of problems...
Well I was using a construction site bulldozer unless your talking walk behind tillers or riding lawn mowers that pull tillers neither of which could stand up for the abuse needed to clear what you'd need for your colony the next smallest I know of in the states is called a Bobcat never tried to pick one up but rough guess of two tons plus a plow attachment 1000-2000 lbs still the same for diesel 7000 lbs use for one month then you get a rusting piece of junk And thats if the damn thing doesn't break down cause unless we have a heavy equipment mechanic its 5000 yrs to the nearest one

[Ward]

Instead of useing gas why not bring a small boiler and dive your equpment.

[Ghost 88]

Instead of useing gas why not bring a small boiler and dive your equpment.
Well one point if you don't know how to operate a steam engine there can be a very load BOOM :D

[Ward]

For my families share of the 500lbs for the comunity weight . I will bring a 40 ft tall steel Tower at 210 lbs and another plow 100lbs , 10 milk Cans 8lbs each , 1 A Frame with hoist 80 lbs , 28 lbs of Butternut Squash seeds enough for 7 acres ,2 lbs of large Pumpkin enought for 2 Acres .

[Ward]

Well one point if you don't know how to operate a steam engine there can be a very load BOOM :D


I know I saw what happen to one the went boom .:D

I have my Boilor engeir lic . for both high presure and low presure .

[Ghost 88]

I know I saw what happen to one the went boom .:D

I have my Boilor engeir lic . for both high presure and low presure .
does Jolo though

[jolo]

go to the John Deer site and find what you are talking about than post the model and its weight.

I found an old tractor that should go in the right direction. Pic included. I don't know the weight, though.

I also found a "walk along trencher" that would be neat for irrigation and simple sanitation, 900 lbs. The bobcat 322 comes at 3500 lbs, but there should be lighter models somewhere. Under the name "wheel horse" one can also find quite a few interesting things in the right direction. I also found a two-wheeled tractor that might be useful.

[Othniel]

I meant more the really cute and little ones for "home use". Good enough for me. Don't know the exact English/American name though.

Tractors the same: Lightweight, and simple.

Each shouldn't weigh more than 1000 lbs.

I like this ram pump - would solve a lot of problems...
Skitzers weigh a lot more than a ton. I worked with them and them and their attachments wouldn't even fit in a wagon, much less be held up by one, I'd estimate they weigh between 1200 lbs and 1600 lbs.

Or do you wanna bring the lighter but larger escavators, (a smaller backhoe with a plow and a digging shovel), they weigh around 1000.

That and they are diesel engines so you can't use that gas for anything else.

[jolo]

Skitzers weigh a lot more than a ton. I worked with them and them and their attachments wouldn't even fit in a wagon, much less be held up by one, I'd estimate they weigh between 1200 lbs and 1600 lbs.

Or do you wanna bring the lighter but larger escavators, (a smaller backhoe with a plow and a digging shovel), they weigh around 1000.

That and they are diesel engines so you can't use that gas for anything else.

Sounds good to me - where did you find such small excavators?

I suppose everyone who brought along parts also brought along some fuel. Which also means, someone must have brought some oil...

But as I was the only one with that idea and no-one followed me on that, it couldn't be many of those. I'm also not sure if I lost the according weight allowance with my boat and trailer.

And I intend to use refined plant oil asap.

[Othniel]

Sounds good to me - where did you find such small excavators?

I suppose everyone who brought along parts also brought along some fuel. Which also means, someone must have brought some oil...

But as I was the only one with that idea and no-one followed me on that, it couldn't be many of those. I'm also not sure if I lost the according weight allowance with my boat and trailer.

And I intend to use refined plant oil asap.
Kubuto. Oh, unless you use a special type of oil for the Kubuto it will ruin it. Same with chain saws, and different pieces of machinery. Are you using 30 weight oil, are you usesing 10-50w, are you using bar oil? Its just like diesel and gas. If you use the wrong type it will devastate the machine.

[SionEwig]

I think we need bith the food and other supplys .
what if we get the 150lbs of food per person and a ton of ideams per member .
There is a lot of ideams that we could use . And we realy should think of what we could use as a colony . How about more water pumps , plows , and seeds . How about everyone take 500 lbs out of there ton for the comunity use . We could make a list of iteams the coloniy needs and we could state we will take from that list .

Ward,

Good idea on everybody kicking in some weight for community items, but I think that 500 lbs is a bit much. How many families/members do we have going to the Berkely site? 400 or more? At 500 lbs from each that's 200,000 lbs or more. I think the ideas of coming up with a list of what the community could use and then dividing the weight out between everyone is better, but I think that it should top out at no more than 250 lbs from each family (which could still give 100,000 plus pounds), and perhaps some of that should be in wheat, oats, etc. main crop seeds.

[jolo]

Kubuto. Oh, unless you use a special type of oil for the Kubuto it will ruin it. Same with chain saws, and different pieces of machinery. Are you using 30 weight oil, are you usesing 10-50w, are you using bar oil? Its just like diesel and gas. If you use the wrong type it will devastate the machine.

Live is much to complicated - can't the asb's build them for us from high performance ceramics that don't need oil... ;)

[Othniel]

Live is much to complicated - can't the asb's build them for us from high performance ceramics that don't need oil... ;)
Thats the problem with big machinery, the bigger it is and more advanced it is, the more parts it needs, and the more it needs to be maintained. You need to replace airfilters every few months, and the size of the machines you are talking about only last about half a days worth of gas. Now if you use it until the gas runs out, or something breaks that will make it a one time machine. Not what their built for, and I'd say anouther hundread pounds of food would be more worth it. Complex machines need to be taken care of, and I'm afraid we might not have the time to do so...after all we have a hard enough time building wagons and blowing glass, after all we have silcon valley.... (I was tempted to bring an aestitaline-oxegen torch....)

Can we afford the time and weight that would go into running and maintaining heavey and complex machinary?

[Ward]

Ward,

Good idea on everybody kicking in some weight for community items, but I think that 500 lbs is a bit much. How many families/members do we have going to the Berkely site? 400 or more? At 500 lbs from each that's 200,000 lbs or more. I think the ideas of coming up with a list of what the community could use and then dividing the weight out between everyone is better, but I think that it should top out at no more than 250 lbs from each family (which could still give 100,000 plus pounds), and perhaps some of that should be in wheat, oats, etc. main crop seeds.



well rember it takes 1,218 lbs to put in 1 acre of Potatoes . and 80-160 lbs of beans depending on what type of an acre of beans . So if would take almost 5 families at 250 lbs each to carry enough potatoes for an acre .

[SionEwig]

well rember it takes 1,218 lbs to put in 1 acre of Potatoes . and 80-160 lbs of beans depending on what type of an acre of beans . So if would take almost 5 families at 250 lbs each to carry enough potatoes for an acre .

And an acre of potatoes yields how much (I really can't remember at the moment).

List what you think the community needs, with weights, add it all up and then let's see how much it will take.

[jolo]

Thats the problem with big machinery, the bigger it is and more advanced it is, the more parts it needs, and the more it needs to be maintained. You need to replace airfilters every few months, and the size of the machines you are talking about only last about half a days worth of gas. Now if you use it until the gas runs out, or something breaks that will make it a one time machine. Not what their built for, and I'd say anouther hundread pounds of food would be more worth it. Complex machines need to be taken care of, and I'm afraid we might not have the time to do so...after all we have a hard enough time building wagons and blowing glass, after all we have silcon valley.... (I was tempted to bring an aestitaline-oxegen torch....)

Can we afford the time and weight that would go into running and maintaining heavey and complex machinary?

I was speculating on using them in the first few weeks where they were really needed - thus helping us do everything much faster and easier.

Most of us are city slickers who's hands will bleed after an hour or two of sawing manually.

Once gasoline is getting rare, we'll only use the machines when we don't have any other possibility - as a life saver. We'll store them so that they don't get rusty, damaged, or the likes.

Once we are able to produce suitable plant oil, we'll use them for important work until they break (a few will already be broken then), and store them again safely. Some machines will be used to repair other machines, some parts will be used for other purposes, and so on.

Once we are able to work with metals, we should be able to repair most of the machines and keep them running basically forever - like oldtimers IOTL.

The machines will definitely help us produce similar equipment once we have reached that level.

And, I was also for using very primitive examples of the respective machines, as they are used in third world countries - no electric systems, able to burn nearly every kind of fuel, easier to repair, and so on.

[Othniel]

I was speculating on using them in the first few weeks where they were really needed - thus helping us do everything much faster and easier.

Most of us are city slickers who's hands will bleed after an hour or two of sawing manually.

Once gasoline is getting rare, we'll only use the machines when we don't have any other possibility - as a life saver. We'll store them so that they don't get rusty, damaged, or the likes.

Once we are able to produce suitable plant oil, we'll use them for important work until they break (a few will already be broken then), and store them again safely. Some machines will be used to repair other machines, some parts will be used for other purposes, and so on.

Once we are able to work with metals, we should be able to repair most of the machines and keep them running basically forever - like oldtimers IOTL.

The machines will definitely help us produce similar equipment once we have reached that level.

And, I was also for using very primitive examples of the respective machines, as they are used in third world countries - no electric systems, able to burn nearly every kind of fuel, easier to repair, and so on.
Would you brather have something thats specialized and works a short time, or something that can do a varity of tasks and will last a long time?

[jolo]

Would you brather have something thats specialized and works a short time, or something that can do a varity of tasks and will last a long time?

I wouldn't consider a tractor "specialised". And they might last longer than a horse...

[Othniel]

I wouldn't consider a tractor "specialised". And they might last longer than a horse...
They also don't heal well nor is there source of fuel abundant, their joints wear out without ointment, and their lungs don't work too good.. They also weigh a whole lot more than a horse and are harder to domesticate. Their method of reproduction is messy, and when they die they don't decompose well.

[jolo]

They also don't heal well.

At least for the next few years... :( - but most should last a few years before breaking down - if used correctly.

[Othniel]

At least for the next few years... :( - but most should last a few years before breaking down - if used correctly.
You can't feed the tractors plant oil and except them to work well. How they preform is based on their diet, which with most machines is made specifically for them. (even when working with stuff from the 1950s)

[Dave Howery]

**throws up hands in disbelief**

fine, let's let them do as they say. Then the moderators can tell them how they are all starving because they took along tractor parts instead of food. When they've cleaned out all the game, fish, and nuts in a 10 mile radius, maybe they can try eating grass and bark, wishing they had spent more time actually getting fields up and running. Maybe the natives will kill them all, out of pity and mercy...

[Othniel]

Jolo, here's what going to happen with any machine. First off you may break it or run out of fuel. Assuming you break it (a safe bet with how much expirence a city slicker has running heavy equipment) you'll need tools to fix it, and replacement parts. Think of how much weight that takes up first off. Secondly think of how much time that eats up and how much you'll have to continuely work on them once they have broke (yep, once its broke it will always have problems) If it gets too broke you basically have to canablize it for parts, meanwhile building up a base of pollutants and parts beyond repair.

Have you ever had a car break down on you? How many days, based on the problem, does it usually take them to repair it with modren techology? Now tell them they can only have tools that they can use out in the field instead of in the shop, and without power tools.

To be quite honest a furnace would serve the community better than a tractor in the long run (gas(propane) or wood, comparitively) than a complex machine. A furnace can be used to blow glass, shape metals, harden pottery...etc.. A loom would do more good as it allows you to weave wool. Heck ev

[Ward]

I myself could see maybe a 100lb rota tiller as the lagest gas powered iteam taken with 40 lbs of spare parts . and maybe 100 gals of fuel . That would make some sence but the rest is stupid and craze . if you could talk enough people to do it . This rotatiller might las long enough to get you 100 acres tilled over . But 9 horse drawn plows would make more scince for the weight . For they could be used the next season at less and probly for a good 40 years .

[jolo]

We should not forget that people will usually make mistakes when packing their things under the conditions described in the rules set at the beginning.

40 years is something a tractor can last, too - especially if not used for joyrides or the likes.

I'd definitely make sure only experienced people work with the according machinery - only once the machines go private will the owners decide.

With heavy machinery, we can start much faster - much less of a "virgin field" problem.

Manual labour on the fields will demand lots of labour - I'd really like to see a city slicker on a plow when the horse gets wild - I suppose it would kill the horse and injure the newbie.

When 20 people were able to plow all the fields we need (at least in the first season), we'd have lots of people left for fishing. And a few for maintaining the machines.

If everyone brought along 100 lbs of equipment (up to 200 lbs for heavier parts), and maybe 50 lbs of fuel, we'd loose only about 10% of our weight allowance and still not have enough machines for any pollution worth mentioning.

As I was the only one with the idea among about 30 active people, I suppose it would be at most 3 % of all of us doing this - that's 90 people, or at most 10 000 lbs of heavy machinery. Which will be a tractor, 2 2-wheeled tractors, a drencher, and the according equipment, add-ons, parts, oils, and so on.

Unluckily I dropped my allowance anyways, as I couldn't find someone to cooperate.

But I suppose you can let your npc's cooperate on a lot of the items you proposed.

[pisces74]

But I suppose you can let your npc's cooperate on a lot of the items you proposed.

If we do at least you'll be able to read about it ;)

[Othniel]

Hmmm, how about having the ASBs drop a standard package among wagons? You know, tools, food, and animals?

[pisces74]

Since this looks like this is going ot pass, about how much equipment would it take to set up a distillery you reckon? (I'm completely ignorant on the subject, but it seems like it would be simple enough)

[Ward]

Hmmm, how about having the ASBs drop a standard package among wagons? You know, tools, food, and animals?



I could have on built by sunday for us .

[jolo]

Since this looks like this is going ot pass, about how much equipment would it take to set up a distillery you reckon? (I'm completely ignorant on the subject, but it seems like it would be simple enough)

Depends upon what you want to distill. For water of normal quality, a normal cooking pot and a lid with a long pipe (for cooling) would do. In the beginning, such simple means should even be enough for alcohol and the likes. Oils will be more difficult.

[Othniel]

I could have on built by sunday for us .
A basic list for a family of four if you'd please, wihh stuff like a Franklin Stove...

[Norbert]

And an acre of potatoes yields how much (I really can't remember at the moment).

List what you think the community needs, with weights, add it all up and then let's see how much it will take.

From what I have found, about 18 tons typically.

[Ward]

From what I have found, about 18 tons typically.


Is this for a family of 4 .

[Norbert]

Sorry, 18 tons is yield for 1 acre of potatoes average

[Gerard-ABC]

A few more ideas on stuff that we might want to have ....


Radios / batteries / chargers*
( We could go back to WW1 tech, all values / coils of wire, rather than modern chips )

Water- / solar- powered generators & cables / wires / plugs etc
Mini-fridges ( for medicines, NOT for food!!!! )

Drills / jigsaws / chargers* ( I've got 2 of each already, but we'll need more )

What's the smallest portable x-ray machine ?

The above are not for "normal" use, but for the community / special projects.

Assumptions : We'll always have sunlight ( average 12 hours / day )
We'll be close enough to a river to set up generators.
If not, could fit up a pump / waterwheel to generate some power.
Not for heat /light, just for some electrical power for Essential uses.


*I'm assuming that all chargers can do all types of battery, and are both solar- / hydro- powered


Sports equipment - baseball / football / NFL
Mirrors / morse code guides ( for signalling, for when radio batteries have run out )


Regards,
Gerard

[NapoleonXIV]

Could we bring back the parts for a handy dandy camper's oil refinery? I don't mean a Catylytic Cracker, silly, I mean something small that could make us a few gallons per day. There are oil seeps in prehistoric CA. All an oil refinery is is a sort of distillery, yes? I looked for one on the net but didn't find any. How about a lab setup?

Or could we bring engines adapted to run on alcohol or plant oil?

We could make or clean most types of filters, given time and patience.

[Norbert]

Could we bring back the parts for a handy dandy camper's oil refinery? I don't mean a Catylytic Cracker, silly, I mean something small that could make us a few gallons per day. There are oil seeps in prehistoric CA. All an oil refinery is is a sort of distillery, yes? I looked for one on the net but didn't find any. How about a lab setup?

Or could we bring engines adapted to run on alcohol or plant oil?

We could make or clean most types of filters, given time and patience.

A micro-refinery would probably need to be something brought as a community investment. An alcohol still, the best estimate I can find is about 1000 lbs for a capacity of 10 gallons/manday. As for cleaning filters, we used to do that all the time when I was younger. It doesn't work so well for the more modern engines, but older engines (say from about 1970 and before) it worked all right to do it that way.

[Ward]

How Far back do we want our civ. to goback to . For as it stands now with in 50 years we could be back to the early iron age if not earlier . Who amoung us knows how to cast a barrow of a rifle and rifle it . Who knows how to make a sword even . How about making a saddle to ride a horse.

Come on guys we realy need to have another 4 tons come over for each member of the board . Yes I have a book on how to make a pump dose any one else have that book .