[ALT] DAY 5

[Psychomeltdown]

Ward said to post this.




Day 5

WEATHER:

We have fog in the morning, clearing by 10 am.
Sunny and bright rest of the day.

TEMP:
Low: 52 Degrees F - morning
High: 69 Degree F - late afternoon


EVENTS:

-0559 We lose a Horse when it trips on a hole early in the morning and breaks it's leg. Rider is thrown, but uninjured. At the time it was dark and foggy.

- 0832 A tent burns down because their neighbor left their fire unattended.

- 1235 Cattle herders come across a large field of wild corn, stunted, small, and scraggly, it's not enough to feed people, but if harvested it can probably feed the pigs.


ON GOING PROJECTS

1. Preparations for the Great Hunt, Norbert supervising
2. Preparations for the Trial.
3. Dr. What and Leo, learning from Ahmick.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Bulg decided that today was the day. Today was the day he would leave. He had contributed, catching the snake, and attempting to help with the organization of the community, and to that end, he left his bullhorn and blacksmithing tools, as the community would need them more than he. Yes, a new prosecutor would be needed, but that could be resolved as easily has his own nomination to the post had been.

Packing up his extra ammo, supplies, and tent, and mounting Bucephalus (with Dog trotting beside) Bulg passed beyond the sentries and into the lands eastward........

[Matt]

Bulg decided that today was the day. Today was the day he would leave. He had contributed, catching the snake, and attempting to help with the organization of the community, and to that end, he left his bullhorn and blacksmithing tools, as the community would need them more than he. Yes, a new prosecutor would be needed, but that could be resolved as easily has his own nomination to the post had been.

Packing up his extra ammo, supplies, and tent, and mounting Bucephalus (with Dog trotting beside) Bulg passed beyond the sentries and into the lands eastward........


Nooo!! Become a Ranger!

[Ward]

Wakeing up on the hard Ground in the morning . I'm thinking to myself I don't rember being on a camp out this weekend .
As I get up I look around the camp site , what is this , We have kitchen stoves out on a camp out .
I get up it dark and the Fog has rolled in .
I wounder were is the bath house I have to go pee bad .

Walking a little bit and not find the bath house but a lot of tents I leave the campsite and find a tree to use .

Walking back to the camp site I run into a guard Who states Good morning
Ward .
Looking at him I see he has weapons on him .
I'm begianing to feel scared what is going on . This can't be a boyscout camp out . Were are we and whats going on .

The last thing I can rember is going out to the barn to milk the cows .

Now were is my tent ! Were are we ? As I start walk around in the fog trying to find my camp site .
After a little bit I start hearing cows that need to be milked and start to head in that direction .
Finding the cows I also see a young native american women and ask her if I can help her milk the cow's .
She Gives me a strange look but hands me a pail and states Yes you can Ward and points me to a cow .
Doing something Familiar helps to clam me down some what .

I Try to rember what is going on and how she could knows my name .

after milking a few cows My son Frank comes up to me ,Dad what are you doing down here .
I look at Frank and state to him : son when did you get home ?
Dad I've been home almost two year now what do you mean?
How could that be your still station at Fort Benning .
My son looks worried at me , no Dad I'm out of the Army now and having
been home running the Farm for Almost 2 years now.
Dad lets take you back to mom .

As he leads me back to the campsite .

[Matt]

Matt awoken early, after finally falling asleep late the night before. IT was clear to him that would be how life would be for him for now on. He grab a canteen and his rifle, and headed out to the eastern edge of camp.

Finding a tree and some clear land a slight distance from the camp, he counted out(as close as he could) 36 yards, and marked off a spot. Laying down in the prone, he sighted in.

Breathing pause, Squeeze the trigger, fire.

Turn the bolt.

Breathing pause, Squeeze the trigger, fire.

Turn the bolt.

Breathing pause, Squeeze the trigger, fire.

Matt put his rifle on safe a stood up. He walked over to the tree and looked at his grouping. Digging a nail out of his satchel, he adjusted the front sight post. 6 up. Then he adjusted the windage knob. 3 left.

He went back to his firing position and repeated 3 more shots. He got up and checked his grouping. Nice and tight. And on target. Zeroing his rifle is so simple, he couldn't believe that he forgot to do it prior to going on the mission. Leasons learned.

A noise caught Matt's attention. He quickly ducked low, and replaced the fire rounds in the magazine. Peering through the brush he tried to see what it was.

A man on horse back. It looked like Bulg. Matt got up and called out to him.

"Hey Ed, where you off to so early?"

[jolo]

The mayor send out a few people with presents and trading goods to the nearest village to establish contact, to find out what they eat and where they get it from, to make them agree on giving us the lands we needed for us, to establish trade and to invite a few of them to our place. As there was no common language yet, maps were prepared to make it easier to find understanding. To avoid unnecessary trouble, the diplomatic team was send in without firearms, while a team of 10 armed men was send along to discretely keep an eye on them.

Also, a few people who wanted to do something to ease worries about food supply and make the people work got the idea of using survival food to establish a job market. The fisherman were given good prices for algae, a group of women was asked to collect moss and digestible parts of trees and scrubs, as well as to prepare some regular ingredients like rice, noodles, fish, and others. Other things were prepared to have a lot of soup ready until noon. It was planned to give away different soups for different tastes and to use the opportunity to make people sign up for jobs on the farms, which would give them more food.

Also, a small expedition was send to the west to reach the Pacific coast and see what was happening there.

[Ward]

Back at the Camp . My son Frank Sits me down and goes talks to my wife .

Frank to my wife : Mom there something wrong with Dad .
Yes I know he an Ass hole . No mom I Mean there is something wrong realy he tought I was still in the Army .
What . Don't tell me that .
I think he need to see Glen .

As I sit down a little girl come running up to me and jumps on my lap .

I look down at her and wounder who this petty little girl is .
She starts to give me kissies and saids Papa tell me a story .

Oh God who is this little girl . So I start telling her about the three bears .
Who are some of these people I think to myself . And what is Fred doing with that girl . And who is she . She looks cute .


Dr What walks over to me and starts in James we need to get the people ready for the big Hunt .
I look at him as if he was craze and ask him who the hell he was and what he was talking about .

[Psychomeltdown]

0550

Psycho had been up for nearly an hour. he'd gotten used to waking up early, his job before the whole Trip had had him getting up at 5 every morning anyway.

The Camp was quiet, though he knew it wouldn't be so in a couple of minutes, but for now he liked the quiet.

"Morning." Nizhoni said, settling down beside him by the small fire. "You have the look of someone planing something." She said.

"I do." Psycho said. "I'm thinking we need to do a complete inventory of what animals we have and what conditions they're in. We have a lot of people who really don't know how to handle the animals and bad as it sounds, we can't let them have those animals if they can't care for them."

"It sounds reasonable." Nizhoni said. "Course you can't just barge in and say you're taking their animals."

Psycho nodded. "I'll ask Ward for permission. See what he thinks. We're gonna be here for a bit, at least another month, so we'll need more corals made, we're going to have to be taking the animals out farther to graze, that means more people on the guard and more people who know how to shoot." Psycho shook his head, there's a lot of work to be done.

"But it'll get done." Nizhoni said.

Psycho nodded.

[Psychomeltdown]

0600

There was a noise that cut through the still morning air as Psycho walked to the main camp. A shrill and whinny sound of pain. He stopped for a moment and suddenly it hit him. He knew this sound.

When he had been a kid his brother and he had been out looking for steers on horses and his brother in an attempt at showing off had taken his horse down a steep hill. The horse had lost footing and they had both taken a tumble. His brother had come away battered and scratched, but with no lasting harm. The horse on the other hand...

Psycho tuned and raced for the noise. The cries had already awaken some people and they were milling about wondering what was going on. Psycho pushed his way through a crowd of people, surrounding a horse and a man. The horse was on the ground, it's breathing labored and the man was sitting beside it, distraught. Psycho scanned the horse and saw what he was looking for.

Even in he foggy morning, he could see blood and bone sticking out from the horse's leg. Psycho sighed as he knelt down to examine it. There was no saving this horse. He realized, not with a break like that.

"Can you help her?" The man asked, probably it's owner. He looked at Psycho.

"Step back." Psycho said. The man stepped back and with a sigh Psycho pulled out his .357 and fired a shot into the horse. He'd been carrying the weapon since Norbert was attacked by a cougar. The sudden loud crack of a fire arm scared everyone and the man who had owned the horse stared at him.

"What did you do!" He yelled starting to get to his feet.

Psycho was in no mood for this. He stepped toward the man and pushed his down as he was still rising to his feet.. Standing over him withe the .357 visible he looked down at him. "What happened?" He asked.

"I... I was coming back from being on guard." He said, eyes flashing to everyone.

"Were you walking, trotting, or running the horse?' Psycho asked.

The man stared at him. After a long moment he said. "Running."

Psycho suppressed the sudden feeling of anger that rose up in him. He looked down at the man. "What the hell were you doing running your horse, in the dark and with fog?"

"I.. I... I" The man just hung his head.

Psycho sighed. "Remove the tack, take it back to where it belongs." He said, then he pulled out a knife. The man stared at him as he handed it to him. "Then you're going to come back here and begin butchering this horse."

'What?" The man shouted.

'This is several hundred pounds of meat." Psycho said. "We'll be needing it. You come back here, get some people to help you, butcher the damn thing, and then return the knife back to my wife. Got it?"

The man nodded.

"And be sure to never touch a fucking horse again." Psycho snapped before walking off.

This was a bad way to begin a day, a horse dead. What fucking else would go wrong?

[Norbert]

Norbert woke up with a start. 'Where... Oh yeah. Down time.' His leg was sore, and his chest felt like he had been in a fight. He worked himself to a sitting position, and pulled his t-shirt up and looked at his chest. Starting to bruise. Hmmm. Carefully getting dressed, after checking the dressing on his leg, he went outside. Wait a minute, its to light out. He pulled out his watch and checked the time. 9:30!!!! He went looking for something to eat and went to get his axe. Carla came back just as he was picking it up. 'What do you think you are doing?' she asked. 'I am going to the cutting area. ' 'You got lucky with that cat, you are bruised, and your leg needs to heal. Sit down, I am sure there are things around here you can do!' Norbert thought about it, and then he sighed. 'I suppose there are other things I can do, but I am not going to sit around here, I am going to walk around looking in on things.' 'Fine, but don't over do it and pull the stitches. 'Dear, these stitches bring we up to nearly having 300 stitches in my life, I think I know how to move and not pull them, and when to stop and rest.' 'Oh, all right you stubborn ol mule. Now get going, I want you back here for lunch!'

[jolo]

I realized that another outpost had formed - without any of the "planners" doing anything about it. Several dozen women and some men and children were gathered at the closest creek to wash clothes and themselves, to get water for the settlement, and also to do some fishing. A few guards would be needed here.

Realizing that one horse already had to be killed, I painted a few streets on the map of the area I had with me. Most of them fitted perfectly between the allotments. In other cases, a few allotments would have to be changed. That would be a good way to make the main routes for our guards and transports safer. I'd propose some street building to the mayor once he returned from his trip. Even if street building just meant filling up some holes and removing a few obstacles.

At about 11 o'clock, the public kittchen opened. While there were few bursts of enthusiasm, hundreds of people were happy to be able to save some of their food. Some of the soups even tasted pretty good and were gone quickly. At 1 o'clock, only the less tasty soups were left, and they were mostly eaten by hardcore survivalists. The worst creations were given to the animals.

I was able to recruit 5 people from the main settlement for the next 10 days by guaranteeing them that they'd get at least a pound of fish for every 5 alts (money for one hour of work) they made, whenever that was available. After that, I rode with them, some tools, a small horse cart, and three horses to my farm to prepare it for the upcoming flooding. In the suitable areas not to be flooded, some seeds were planted and some weeds were removed. I inserted the plantings in my map, to identify them later. Also, a few trees were felled and distributed on the ground to later help control the flow of the water. Stones and loose soil were added to that. Where necessary, some small trenches were dug. After a few hours, it became slowly visible were the water was supposed to flow along. My neighbours arrived inbetween with a few helpers and added to the effort. In the early evening, we were able to prepare the creek for the explosion that would help create the desired dam. As there was not enough hill, a few logs were also prepared to fill the opening. After that, we returned home, with some of the weeds that looked suitable to feed animals or produce things from.

[Matt]

I realized that another outpost had formed - without any of the "planners" doing anything about it. Several dozen women and some men and children were gathered at the closest creek to wash clothes and themselves, to get water for the settlement, and also to do some fishing. A few guards would be needed here.

Realizing that one horse already had to be killed, I painted a few streets on the map of the area I had with me. Most of them fitted perfectly between the allotments. In other cases, a few allotments would have to be changed. That would be a good way to make the main routes for our guards and transports safer. I'd propose some street building to the mayor once he returned from his trip. Even if street building just meant filling up some holes and removing a few obstacles.

At about 11 o'clock, the public kittchen opened. While there were few bursts of enthusiasm, hundreds of people were happy to be able to safe some of their food. Some of the soups even tasted pretty good and were gone quickly. At 1 o'clock, only the less tasty soups were left, and they were mostly eaten by hardcore survivalists. The worst creations were given to the animals.

I was able to recruit 5 people from the main settlement for the next 10 days by guaranteeing them that they'd get at least a pound of fish for every 5 alts (money for one hour of work) they made, whenever that was available. After that, I rode with them, some tools, a small horse cart, and three horses to my farm to prepare it for the upcoming flooding. In the suitable areas not to be flooded, some seeds were planted and some weeds were removed. I inserted the plantings in my map, to identify them later. Also, a few trees were felled and distributed on the ground to later help control the flow of the water. Stones and loose soil were added to that. Where necessary, some small trenches were dug. After a few hours, it became slowly visible were the water was supposed to flow along. My neighbours arrived inbetween with a few helpers and added to the effort. In the early evening, we were able to prepare the creek for the explosion that would help create the desired dam. As there was not enough hill, a few logs were also prepared to fill the opening. After that, we returned home, with some of the weeds that looked suitable to feed animals or produce things from.

OOC: Jolo, I know you want the Rangers to be able to patrol your community, I'm going to have to be able to recruit Rangers from your group as well. The Rangers are for the whole colony, not just the future Ianopolis.

[jolo]

OOC: Jolo, I know you want the Rangers to be able to patrol your community, I'm going to have to be able to recruit Rangers from your group as well. The Rangers are for the whole colony, not just the future Ianopolis.

As I'm not the mayor you can decide that with him at will. I suppose he'll agree to that when he comes back tonight, even to sending a few with the trek, to return some information on the surrounding land scape and natives.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Bulg, rather intent on leaving, felt entirely different upon seeing MBarry sitting zeroing his rifle, and wasn't really sure how to go about answering the question.

"Oh, hey Matt. I don't know, thinking of going out for a little jaunt," he said.

"With all that stuff, and Dog?" MBarry said.

"An extended jaunt." Bulg tried.

"Uh-huh," MBarry said dubiously.

Seeing that the game was up, Bulg just said it.

"Actually, I was thinking of leaving. Seems like people have things under control, and I'd like to see the country. Probably won't make it too far if I'm not extraordinarily careful, but nonetheless...."

"Leaving? How can you leave? Your our chief prosecutor and resource manager!"

"When did I get that job?"

"Maybe while you were busy being chief prosecutor."

"Well, it's good to know I got that."

"Sure you don't want to join the Rangers? Got a platoon for ya."

"Keep the offer on the table, but for now, I think I should keep my promises to the community. Good talk, Matt, see ya out there."

With that, I headed back to the community, well before most were awake.

Matt awoken early, after finally falling asleep late the night before. IT was clear to him that would be how life would be for him for now on. He grab a canteen and his rifle, and headed out to the eastern edge of camp.

Finding a tree and some clear land a slight distance from the camp, he counted out(as close as he could) 36 yards, and marked off a spot. Laying down in the prone, he sighted in.

Breathing pause, Squeeze the trigger, fire.

Turn the bolt.

Breathing pause, Squeeze the trigger, fire.

Turn the bolt.

Breathing pause, Squeeze the trigger, fire.

Matt put his rifle on safe a stood up. He walked over to the tree and looked at his grouping. Digging a nail out of his satchel, he adjusted the front sight post. 6 up. Then he adjusted the windage knob. 3 left.

He went back to his firing position and repeated 3 more shots. He got up and checked his grouping. Nice and tight. And on target. Zeroing his rifle is so simple, he couldn't believe that he forgot to do it prior to going on the mission. Leasons learned.

A noise caught Matt's attention. He quickly ducked low, and replaced the fire rounds in the magazine. Peering through the brush he tried to see what it was.

A man on horse back. It looked like Bulg. Matt got up and called out to him.

"Hey Ed, where you off to so early?"

[Doctor What]

Dr. What woke up with another groan. He had spent a very long day with Almick and an equally long night pumping Flocc for info. Shortly after Flocc left, Almick pointed at himself and said 'Sleep" and looked around the tent with a questioning look.

Oh yeah--he needs to sleep somewhere.

Almick got up and walked out of the tent. He looked around in confusion for a few seconds, then purposively walked off in one direction. Dr. What followed him. Almick walked to the edge of the camp then walked about 30 or 40 feet into the woods and then sat down. 'Sleep' he said, pointing at himself and then the ground.

Ah--he wants to sleep in a familiar place. Don't blame him. Quite frankly--I'm surprised he hasn't run screaming into the woods and left us all behind. The culture shock he must be going through....

Dr. What had run back and grabbed one of the sleeping bags --he and Sarah had been using just the one bag anyway--and gave it to Almick. It took him a minute or two before he was able to figure out what to do with it but once he did, he got himself into the bag with a huge smile. 'Maka' he said with a smile.

"Er--you're welcome?" said Dr. What.

He had spent literally hours writing by candlelight on some paper everything that had happened, pouring over his books and thinking before turning in.

Damn--I'm getting too old to be pulling an all-nighter

Sarah had brought him up to speed all the things that have been happening in camp. The preparations for the Trial. Another bear attack. The preparation for the move. The Hunt.

The Hunt--yeah--there's a lot of things that he needed to talk to Ward about that. Not just what his role would be--he wanted to help but wasn't sure what he could offer in the way of skills. And quite frankly, he figured half the camp would be in the same situation. He walked out the tent--and nearly walked into Almick.

'Dak-Tar Waat' he said with a smile. 'Foo-od' he said, handing him a handful of plants, eating one himself.

Cool--he's giving me food now...

Doc munched on some of the plants--which were surprisingly tasty--and left as Sarah and one or two of their neighbours offered Almick some breakfast to look for Ward.

He found Ward sitting, holding a small girl in his lap.

"Ward--we need to start getting people more organized for the hunt."

Ward looked at Doc with a look of complete confusion on his face.

"Who the hell are you and what the hell are you talking about?"
"Huh?--Ward--it's me--Doc What, remember?"
"What? Doctor What? What kind of crazy name is that, boy? And would somebody please tell me what are all these people doing here? And who is this kid sitting on my lap?"

Oh shit...this isn't an act...

He remembered Ward's medical conditions. One word came to his mind.

Stroke.....

[GBW]

GBW yawned and ran a hand over his face. He hadn't gotten much sleep, having been up later than he would have wanted the night before. After running into Weapon M the day before he'd finally been updated on the various activities the other board members were up to. To make sure he stayed 'in the loop', GBW had immediately gone back to his tent and pulled up stakes to move his tent and belongings closer to the others. His wife had been less than pleased at throwing everything in disarray so shortly after they'd settled in - or at least as much as you could in a tent - but she recognized that her husband didn't like the feeling of being in the dark. And, to be fair, he had apologized and told her his reasoning, and had also done his share and more of the moving even after the sun set.

After a stretch of sleep much shorter than he would have wanted, GBW was still straightening things out when he heard shouts outside. He frowned and wondered what was going on when he heard a clear yell amidst the panicked shouting: "Fire!"

He swore under his breath, getting him a startled look from his wife who hadn't even heard him swear before then, and rushed out of the tent towards the nearby plume of smoke. He dodged his way past a few people running full tilt away from the fire and pushed through some gawkers before he got to the source. Someone's tent was fully aflame and several people were trying to dump bottles of water and canteens onto the fire to try and put it out. "Use the water to get those nearby tents wet so that it won't spread!" he shouted as he scuffed at the dirt with a boot and picked up some dirt to throw on the fire. It wasn't long before he decided that the tent and the belongings within were past saving and helped the other people in making sure that it was contained to only the one tent. There was a bad moment when some ammunition inside the tent cooked off and sent people hitting the dirt and running, but no one got hurt except for some minor burns here and there from the flames themselves.

As the fire started to die down, one man covered in more soot than most swore and stabbed a finger at one of the men who'd been wetting the tent next to it. "You son of a bitch! You were in charge of the damned fire!" "But I just walked away for a little bit--" the other man started to protest before the owner of the tent swore again and rushed him. GBW was among those who rushed forward and grabbed the guy. "Somebody go tell Ward what happened! And stop that guy from leaving too!" he said as the man who'd left the fire unattended tried to slip away.

[Matt]

Before everyone got stirring in the morning, Flocc worked his way to the center of the settlement. Centered around Doc Glen's tent and Ward's, it served as an impromptu city sqaure. He found Bulg, who seemed to be in a hurry for something, and borrowed his bullhorn. While he waited, we pulled a couple of barrels and a chair near him.

As the crowds started on their new daily routines, he stood up on the barrell. Matt asked him to do this late the night before. Since the poor guy looked like he was about to fall over and die, so he couldn't say no. Besides recruiter seemed like an appropiate job for an XO.

He turned on the horn and started.. "Attention men over 16. I am here to make an offical anouncement. A company of Rangers is to be raised! 99 good men are needed to man it's ranks! Are you eager to explore this brave new world? Do you seek adventure? Then the Rangers are for you! Men with military or para military are asked to enlist! If you are interested, please come see me, Lt. Flocc, at my recruiting desk right here! Thank you."

The crowd paused long enough to digest the information. Flocc felt a slight buzz go though, and he patiently leaned back and waited.

And waited.

At first no one came to see him. But slowly a trickle started, mostly guys with prior experence. He got several with qualifications for officers, so he sent them Matt's way. The other he took their names, and told them to report in the muster area(By Matt and Flocc's tents) the morning after next.

Soon though, another type of recruit was showing up. Young men, few older the 19 started coming up to him. It was clear that they were looking for all that idealistic crap that young men fell for so easily. Many thought the Rangers would be an escape from the fields. He felt bad for them.

By the time he folded up shop, he had 2/3s of the men they would need. The plan now was to bring the vets up to speed in the next couple of days, then muster in the rookies. One or two more days of recruiting, and they would fill the roster.

Now he hoped they would all show up.

[pisces74]

Pisces sat on the edge of the lake all morning collecting frogs and a breed of tiny turtles passing the time waiting for the family of beavers to show thier heads, after a time the fog and dark melted away and fortune smiled on Pisces. coming back from his early morning forage was the male beaver. after making sure he had access to what would soon hopefully be a beaver corpse, Pisces sighted his musket, and slowly,calmly pulled the trigger. The shot resounded across the open lake scaring up a flock of waterfowl. Pisces ran over to inspect the kill. The twiching ex-beavers head ended just above his jawline. "damn good shot, even for me." Pisces allowed himself a congratulatory compliment.

****
Two sacks of scavenging and beaver corpse in tow, Pisces made his way back to the encampment to a concerned looking Jen. "good morning hunny!" Pisces said "whatsamatter?" "I went over to Mrs Wards today to see about organizing some childrens activities, and was given the brush off. It appears that Mr Ward is ill." That evening Pisces went over to the Ward household and found a lad in his teens chopping wood outside. "Lad I've got a beaver corpse that needs dressed, and I'm willing to pay in coffee beans to be shown how to do it. Anyone around that I can talk to?"

[jolo]

In the evening, the mayor returned. The meeting with the tribe went pretty well. They weren't too concerned about the land they didn't have much use for, anyways. They also had difficulties understanding the meaning of a contract - especially as there were severe problems understanding anything in both directions. But after some heavy gesturing, some repeated pointing on the maps, some drawings in the sand, and a lot of "presents" being given to the Chief, everything was signed with finger prints. The mayor and his team had to give up their knives, though. Also, the tribe demanded a lot of fishing ground from the area around them - including a lot of the creeks. Our Fishermen would be pretty much restricted to fishing grounds far away from the coast. A few of them were invited to come to the market for barter. And they told us that at the river beyond the mountains to the east was a large tribe whose hunters usually demanded the area we lived in. That would mean another trip as well...

The mayor and I met with MBarry, who told us he planned on training the militias beginning at day 8.

There was quite a few protest of some of the main settlers against our market system. They began to demand money for about everything, despite our free food give away - there'd probably need to be some clarification what would be for free, and what not. Preferably, that would mostly be up to the everyone themselves - a small thank you for a favour should be normal anyways, and the school which just started to become used widely should be an example for good will on our side.

[Psychomeltdown]

In the evening, the mayor returned. The meeting with the tribe went pretty well. They weren't too concerned about the land they didn't have much use for, anyways. They also had difficulties understanding the meaning of a contract - especially as there were severe problems understanding anything in both directions. But after some heavy gesturing, some repeated pointing on the maps, some drawings in the sand, and a lot of "presents" being given to the Chief, everything was signed with finger prints. The mayor and his team had to give up their knives, though. Also, the tribe demanded a lot of fishing ground from the area around them - including a lot of the creeks. Our Fishermen would be pretty much restricted to fishing grounds far away from the coast. A few of them were invited to come to the market for barter. And they told us that at the river beyond the mountains to the east was a large tribe whose hunters usually demanded the area we lived in. That would mean another trip as well...
.\
OOC: What tribe are they talking with? Ahmick's Tribe? Foriegn Relations is supposed to be a thought out process, one that takes planning, not just rushing off to "buy" land from the locals.

these people don't even have the concept of landownership, maps, or even contracts. And you don't even have anything beyond a word or two between the both of you. Gesturing won't help if you two don't know what the hell the gestures mean.

Most native americans didn't even know what maps were until the 18th cent, then they didn't even know what you meant by buying land.

I see HUGE probs later on...

[jolo]

OOC: What tribe are they talking with? Ahmick's Tribe? Foriegn Relations is supposed to be a thought out process, one that takes planning, not just rushing off to "buy" land from the locals.

these people don't even have the concept of landownership, maps, or even contracts. And you don't even have anything beyond a word or two between the both of you. Gesturing won't help if you two don't know what the hell the gestures mean.

Most native americans didn't even know what maps were until the 18th cent, then they didn't even know what you meant by buying land.

I see HUGE probs later on...

Yes, same as IOTL. But I don't see any better possibilities - better than just taking away the land. And I want it to be done before things can't be changed - that would lead to a lot of temptation to take things in one's own hand for some of us.

I also think trade and better food supply will soften those problems before they become too big.

I leave it up to you guys if we're dealing with the same tribe or with another one. I suppose it wouldn't be the first time people act independently in a big group. But I'm open to changes and suggestions.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Jolo, personally, I think you are moving way to fast on this whole market thing. We have very much a barter economy at the moment, and nothing more advanced than that. Anything else is just illogical.

Remember, we are all one big camp under one group of people. Eventually we'll split, but for now.....some of this takes a few too many liberties me thinks.

[Psychomeltdown]

Jolo, personally, I think you are moving way to fast on this whole market thing. We have very much a barter economy at the moment, and nothing more advanced than that. Anything else is just illogical.

Remember, we are all one big camp under one group of people. Eventually we'll split, but for now.....some of this takes a few too many liberties me thinks.
OOC: Right, I thought he'd start his own little colony once we had left, not just right off the bat. Seriously we need manpower and order Right Now, not one group saying that they're their own settlement and treating everyone (the vast majority) as a separate one.

[jolo]

Jolo, personally, I think you are moving way to fast on this whole market thing. We have very much a barter economy at the moment, and nothing more advanced than that. Anything else is just illogical.

Remember, we are all one big camp under one group of people. Eventually we'll split, but for now.....some of this takes a few too many liberties me thinks.

Simple bartering reaches it's limits with 50 people already - we are 3000 people. It will take at least 2 months until you have a community storage - how is a lumber jack supposed to get a single saw if his own breaks? What if he breaks more of them? Did you think about all the details of every single person's live that have to be planned to get the same result as a market will deliver automatically? Who's gonna count every single fish and every single game to determine how many people need to be put into which trade to avoid starving? It's completely illogical to avoid a proven method of factor allocation if it's child's play to arrange for it.

[Psychomeltdown]

"What? Ward's ill?" Psycho asked shocked. It had taken him a while to get to Ward's, stopping at the tents of those that still had their animals and checking them out. Making sure they were okay. he stopped by the animals that were under Dominus' care and saw that he was doing a great job, someone who knew what he was doing, it seemed. A relief after the morning of yelling at people.

Now he arrived to Ward's tent and this was the news? Psycho was a bit worried. Everyone came to Ward for decisions, and answers, what with him being the de facto head of the Camp. Now he was ill?

The small boy nodded. "He's at Glen's tent." He said.

Psycho immediately went to Glen's, but there was already a big crowd there, onlookers and gawkers. News must have spread fast. Psycho recognized a swarthy fellow among the crowd and walked up to him.

"What's going on?" Psycho asked Dr. What.

"Don't know." Dr. What said. "All I hear is that Ward's sick." He looked around a bit and whispered. "I think he might have had a stroke."

"Shit." Psycho muttered. After a long thoughtful pause. "Shit."

Psycho looked around warily. What else would be going wrong today?

[Dave Howery]

OOC- Hmm, nothing major involving me today... another day where I get off herd duty at 10 AM, spend a couple hours chopping wood, a few more hours sleeping, and then back at 10 PM to guarding the herd. I suppose the wife spends another productive day with Ms. Ward or Nizhoni. Dang, I'm not spending any time with her... oh, well, when we get moved, we'll be working together so much, she'll probably get tired of looking at me... :)

[Doctor What]

It took a bit of doing--for an old guy, Ward could be surprisingly strong--but a few of his kids and grandkids managed to convince Ward that he needed a doctor--a real doctor--and half carried/half dragged him away.

Doc Glen took Ward in and then shooed everyone else out. Dr. What looked around.

Damn--could we have made any more of a scene if we tried? Five people bringing a screaming Ward through half the camp and into the Doctor's tent--there was already a dozen bystanders milling around. Once word gets around...

He wandered away from the growing crowd and sat down.

Too much to do...not enough time to do it...half the camp is still disorganized...I barely started work on figuring out Ahmick's language...still haven't had a chance to interview Matt...going to need both Leo's and Psycho's help very soon...and now Ward is sick. Ward. We were looking at him for leadership. If he gets sick--or worse...

Dr. What shuddered. This is bad. This is fucking bad. This is really fucking bad....

"What's going on?" said a voice.

It took a second for Doc to place the voice. Psychomeltdown.

"Don't know." Dr. What said. "All I hear is that Ward's sick." He looked around a bit and whispered. "I think he might have had a stroke."

"Shit." Psycho muttered. After a long thoughtful pause. "Shit."

"Psych--I need...I need you to meet someone--Ahmick. One of the locals. I know that this is a really shitty time to be asking for this but there's not much we can do right now. We might as well do something useful and productive right now". He paused. "At least it will help keep our minds off of...."

Doc couldn't finish the sentence.

[Psychomeltdown]

"Ahmick?" Psycho said the name out loud. It did sound strange, nothing like he heard anyone being called before. He looked at Dr. What, who still looked pretty worried about what was happening. "A real life Indian." He grinned for a moment.

Maybe somewhere in his family tree this guy could have been an ancestor of his, though due to ASB intervention, that might have all been butterflied away.

"Well, lets go meet this guy. We can't just wait around here for ever, waiting for Glen to tell us what's wrong. " Psycho shook his head. "Damn. Bear attacks, a friggin' shooting, Norbert injured, bow Ward's "ill". What other freakin' thing's gonna happen next."

Dr. What nodded, leading him toward his own tent. "It's been a bad start, to say the least."

[Matt]

There was quite a few protest of some of the main settlers against our market system. They began to demand money for about everything, despite our free food give away - there'd probably need to be some clarification what would be for free, and what not. Preferably, that would mostly be up to the everyone themselves - a small thank you for a favour should be normal anyways, and the school which just started to become used widely should be an example for good will on our side.

No.

Every single player is disagreeing with the speed and complete throughness of your progress. I'm putting my foot down as moderator. It ain't happening/didn't happen. You can a seperate community. You can do things on your own little program. What you can't do is move from the middle ages to modern socio-economic systems in 3.5 days. We don't have enough water or food right now, I don't know how you think all this is happening. I don't want to be the asshole, but when you're ignoring every single player and voice of reason I have no choice.

[jolo]

No.

Every single player is disagreeing with the speed and complete throughness of your progress. I'm putting my foot down as moderator. It ain't happening/didn't happen. You can a seperate community. You can do things on your own little program. What you can't do is move from the middle ages to modern socio-economic systems in 3.5 days. We don't have enough water or food right now, I don't know how you think all this is happening. I don't want to be the asshole, but when you're ignoring every single player and voice of reason I have no choice.

That's really regrettable - especially as the things mentioned in the example (survival food, school, money, a small market) don't appear complicated to me at all. I was also just about to mention the black market that after 5 days of 3000 people living together was developing around the coins we at one point agreed every one would take with him - I suppose that very interesting (and imo realistic) element has to be dropped than, too. Btw. - basically all English or Spanish colonies did start with money and trade as central elements. So did the colonists who came from the east coast once they were more than a few dozen people.

[Othniel]

That's really regrettable - especially as the things mentioned in the example (survival food, school, money, a small market) don't appear complicated to me at all. I was also just about to mention the black market that after 5 days of 3000 people living together was developing around the coins we at one point agreed every one would take with him - I suppose that very interesting (and imo realistic) element has to be dropped than, too. Btw. - basically all English or Spanish colonies did start with money and trade as central elements. So did the colonists who came from the east coast once they were more than a few dozen people.
They also had supplies coming from Mother countries. As is we are more like the first Mongols.

[jolo]

They also had supplies coming from Mother countries.

They were much smaller groups, and it wasn't much supplies - a fraction of what we bring along per person.

[Doctor What]

They also had supplies coming from Mother countries. As is we are more like the first Mongols.

Even worse than that--we have essentially been shipwrecked.

[Othniel]

They were much smaller groups, and it wasn't much supplies - a fraction of what we bring along per person.
Still there was a steady supply of people, and supplies coming from a source for profit of the European countries. What replacements do we have when it comes to some of the more important stuff? And comparably, say to Virginia, what trained talents do we have specifically for the situatuion? We have to make do with what we have. This is Giligians Island in a much larger fashion.

Plus this is the west. May I have you referance the Donner Party when something goes wrong.

[Ward]

Even worse than that--we have essentially been shipwrecked.


Hell if we were shipwecked we would have a lot more equpment then we have .

[jolo]

Still there was a steady supply of people, and supplies coming from a source for profit of the European countries. What replacements do we have when it comes to some of the more important stuff? And comparably, say to Virginia, what trained talents do we have specifically for the situatuion? We have to make do with what we have. This is Giligians Island in a much larger fashion.

Plus this is the west. May I have you referance the Donner Party when something goes wrong.

So with much less equipment and people they were even able to produce tobacco and other goods for their home countries...

If it should come as bad as the Donner Party trek, I hope you guys remember all those tasty Amerindians around... :p . But it's unlikely we get caught in the snow for several months...

[Psychomeltdown]

So with much less equipment and people they were even able to produce tobacco and other goods for their home countries...
.
No, this analogy does not work for our situation.
those early colonies were pretty much dependent upon their Home Countries for supplies, these were also people who knew how to farm and how to build things they would need. Skill we are sorely lacking.

The only reason they produced tobacco and the other goods was because it was the only way they could make MONEY to BUY supplies from their home country.

we have no home country, we have no incoming supplies, all we have is all we got now.

[jolo]

No, this analogy does not work for our situation.
those early colonies were pretty much dependent upon their Home Countries for supplies, these were also people who knew how to farm and how to build things they would need. Skill we are sorely lacking.

The only reason they produced tobacco and the other goods was because it was the only way they could make MONEY to BUY supplies from their home country.

we have no home country, we have no incoming supplies, all we have is all we got now.

But we have books on nearly all plants around. We have lots of seeds. We have tools those people could only dream of. We have much more potent arms. Some of us have night vision equipment. We have lots of horses and other big, medium, and small animals. We are already in an area with fairly acceptable climate, and good climate is only a few dozen miles away. We have books and maps on all the ressources available in the area and beyond. We have books on nearly all technologies up to today. And so on. I see our situation as much more rosy then that of many of the original colonists.

[Doctor What]

Hell if we were shipwecked we would have a lot more equpment then we have .

You see? We're so bad off that we are envious of shipwrecked people... ;)

[Doctor What]

But we have books on nearly all plants around. We have lots of seeds. We have tools those people could only dream of. We have much more potent arms. Some of us have night vision equipment. We have lots of horses and other big, medium, and small animals. We are already in an area with fairly acceptable climate, and good climate is only a few dozen miles away. We have books and maps on all the ressources available in the area and beyond. We have books on nearly all technologies up to today. And so on. I see our situation as much more rosy then that of many of the original colonists.

And until we have enough food to keep us alive for more than a few weeks, all that information we have is pretty much useless...

Here's an example--I dump you on an island with 10 crates of equipment, books and gadgets--but only 2 weeks of food and water. What's the first thing you do:
a) figure out a way to increase that supply of food as much as possible as fast as possible
b) set up a pottery hut

No--first you concentrate on hunting/fishing/farming/collecting as much food as humanly possible--THEN you start worry about stuff like where's the church going to be set up, who's going to be mayor, what kind of design you put on the money, etc...

Like I said in a previous post--it's not the idea itself but the speed that you're going. A lot of those ideas you have are going to be a reality in year two--not day five.

[Ghost 88]

No.

Every single player is disagreeing with the speed and complete throughness of your progress. I'm putting my foot down as moderator. It ain't happening/didn't happen. You can a seperate community. You can do things on your own little program. What you can't do is move from the middle ages to modern socio-economic systems in 3.5 days. We don't have enough water or food right now, I don't know how you think all this is happening. I don't want to be the asshole, but when you're ignoring every single player and voice of reason I have no choice.
If only our culture was Middle Age. Sure we have a lot of high tech items but our ability to make things is more online with the StoneBronzeIron Age. I put it that way becuase somethings we have to relearn (and I mean phsyicaly ) is stone age ,some bronze,some iron. If we were middle ages most of Jolos madness would be on level(Jolo the only time I will defend anyone no matter how insane I think their ideas is when the criticism is innaccurate) That being said we our going way off tract here. Our primary concern PERIOD is finding and relocating to an area that we can farm and graze our livestock. The group as a whole has decided on the east bay area . I think the big valley (never can remember its name) where most of Ca our time farming is done is where we should go. I think it is suicide for Jolo and his people to stay at Ian's. Sooner or later we are going to piss the locals off big time, I don't hold with the theory of Native Americans being the first eucolgist (they did it seems hunt out a lot of animals on their lonsome) but they are not going to take likely are huge demands on the local flora and fauna.
That makes me wonder just what should be the top priority. Some actions I don"t see as must do is: 1) trade all items we brought that have to do with survival(tools animals ect) our community property until such a time as the COMMUNITY as a whole is established and running were our basic needs our meet and specialization such as Jolo being a trader will not endanger the COMMUNITY as a whole. 2) The Rangers other than 20-30 for scouting the defense of the COMMUNITY must be handled by every person that is able to shoot a gun or load for those that can't. After the COMMUNITY is relocated the milita trained defensive works built Then the Rangers can be expanded to a larger force. 3) The "Hunt" I'm worried a large scale kill off of local wild life is likely to piss the locals off sooner rather than later,plus I'm not certian many of us have the skills or the training to conduct a shoot of this magnitude Still on this it was stated it might be months before the wildlife recovered try years.4) we have to much to do and may not have a whole lot of time to do it. Sidenote: every egg our chickens lay needs to be hatched we have 3000 plus people and I once was told by a chicken farmer that a hen only lays every three days means 18000 hens if 2 eggs per person per day and many more if we want to add things like bread and cakes to our diets This is just one of the multitude of problems we need to forsee and plan for

[jolo]

You see? We're so bad off that we are envious of shipwrecked people... ;)

Looking at the number of shipwrecks and the number of according colonies, it's not that great - at least as far as I can guesstimate. And the Bounty isn't even among them.

Also, it might be interesting to compare the success rates of colonies where currency was in extensive use (lots of internal trade) and colonies of similar size that relied on barter.

[Ghost 88]

But we have books on nearly all plants around. We have lots of seeds. We have tools those people could only dream of. We have much more potent arms. Some of us have night vision equipment. We have lots of horses and other big, medium, and small animals. We are already in an area with fairly acceptable climate, and good climate is only a few dozen miles away. We have books and maps on all the ressources available in the area and beyond. We have books on nearly all technologies up to today. And so on. I see our situation as much more rosy then that of many of the original colonists.
Jolo please read one of our books and then go collect every thing you need to make me (from scratch no using anything we brought along except the blacksmith tools) a carbon steel Bowie knife . Come on Jolo we got the knowledge its right there in the book. Jolo know that was mean of me but this is what people are tring to point out "we have the knowledge but not the skills for most of the things we are going to need done. Opps sorry Dr What

[jolo]

And until we have enough food to keep us alive for more than a few weeks, all that information we have is pretty much useless...

Here's an example--I dump you on an island with 10 crates of equipment, books and gadgets--but only 2 weeks of food and water. What's the first thing you do:
a) figure out a way to increase that supply of food as much as possible as fast as possible
b) set up a pottery hut

No--first you concentrate on hunting/fishing/farming/collecting as much food as humanly possible--THEN you start worry about stuff like where's the church going to be set up, who's going to be mayor, what kind of design you put on the money, etc...

Like I said in a previous post--it's not the idea itself but the speed that you're going. A lot of those ideas you have are going to be a reality in year two--not day five.

I admit the pottery hut was not my best idea - though I believe lots of people could really use something to store food in - not everyone brought along jars, and plastic can usually not be sterilized.

But again, we are too many people to send all of them out fishing, hunting, herding, gathering, farming, and so on. A few people will be needed to keep the children occupied somehow. A few people are needed to organize things. A few people are needed to show the others how to prepare fish, game, and so on - they'd be very likely to specialize on this. A few people do guarding, woodcutting, and the likes. And so on. I also didn't see any argument on the efficiency a market can bring - helping people to concentrate on what really matters.

I brought enough money with me - but it would also work with the coins we once said we'd bring along - though the coins would pretty soon have astronomical value due to the little supply and the large need.

[Norbert]

There are cases where a colony which was sent out, completly disappeared with no trace a year later. Roanoke. The first colonies of North America, such as Jamestown lost 60% of there population in the first year. And, Jamestown was a colony set up as a European town of the time. If you look at the records of the early colonies, this death rate was typical in the first few years.

Yes, we have some idea of natural resources in the area. But, we still need to find them and access them. A market economy will work, but only after everyone pulls together to survive the first couple of years. Until man had an excess of food available, having skilled trades could not develop. Why was the period from the stone age to bronze age so long? There was to much work to do just to survive.

Jolo, I am not saying you will not be able to develop a trade establishment. Indeed, if that is your dream, I am for it. I am saying, though, that our best option is to work together until the time we have the excess food. Until everyone is on a stable footing, without having to worry about where the next meal comes from, we cannot afford the task of manufacturing extra items beyond what we need to survive.

Example: We need twenty wagons, and I build 30, hoping to sell the extra ten. We need two new homes, and I am tieing up my resources building ten extra wagons. We need 37 barrels for food storage, but I am tieing up my resources building ten extra wagons. Did I accomplish anything besides not making the barrels needed to store extra food, or not building two houses so living conditions are not overcrowded? All I have done is build ten wagons that might be used next year. Better to build the wagons next year.

Two years down the road: We have sufficient housing, sufficient food stores, and currently have sufficient storage capability. The wagons in use are starting to break down and need to be replaced soon. So if I build ten wagons now, they will soon be able to be purchased for use.

[jolo]

If only our culture was Middle Age. Sure we have a lot of high tech items but our ability to make things is more online with the StoneBronzeIron Age. I put it that way becuase somethings we have to relearn (and I mean phsyicaly ) is stone age ,some bronze,some iron. If we were middle ages most of Jolos madness would be on level(Jolo the only time I will defend anyone no matter how insane I think their ideas is when the criticism is innaccurate) That being said we our going way off tract here. Our primary concern PERIOD is finding and relocating to an area that we can farm and graze our livestock. The group as a whole has decided on the east bay area . I think the big valley (never can remember its name) where most of Ca our time farming is done is where we should go. I think it is suicide for Jolo and his people to stay at Ian's. Sooner or later we are going to piss the locals off big time, I don't hold with the theory of Native Americans being the first eucolgist (they did it seems hunt out a lot of animals on their lonsome) but they are not going to take likely are huge demands on the local flora and fauna.
That makes me wonder just what should be the top priority. Some actions I don"t see as must do is: 1) trade all items we brought that have to do with survival(tools animals ect) our community property until such a time as the COMMUNITY as a whole is established and running were our basic needs our meet and specialization such as Jolo being a trader will not endanger the COMMUNITY as a whole. 2) The Rangers other than 20-30 for scouting the defense of the COMMUNITY must be handled by every person that is able to shoot a gun or load for those that can't. After the COMMUNITY is relocated the milita trained defensive works built Then the Rangers can be expanded to a larger force. 3) The "Hunt" I'm worried a large scale kill off of local wild life is likely to piss the locals off sooner rather than later,plus I'm not certian many of us have the skills or the training to conduct a shoot of this magnitude Still on this it was stated it might be months before the wildlife recovered try years.4) we have to much to do and may not have a whole lot of time to do it. Sidenote: every egg our chickens lay needs to be hatched we have 3000 plus people and I once was told by a chicken farmer that a hen only lays every three days means 18000 hens if 2 eggs per person per day and many more if we want to add things like bread and cakes to our diets This is just one of the multitude of problems we need to forsee and plan for

I'm not hindering the main group the slightest. I did write that the trade was mainly among the group which stays here, so there's no real change in the community stocks of the main settlement. Instead, trade helps the main group get more food while it helps the local group to get more land prepared.

Once we have our fields producing enough (I suppose after the 2nd or third harvest), our demands will be even lower than that of the locals - and a lot of them can get food from our fields. We could even leave all the game to them.

And again, we don't really need to plan on having 18000 hens - that number won't be reached that soon anyways. Better to reduce the consumption of eggs a little bit and keep the wheat for ourselves instead of so many hens. Over time, the number suitable for us will be achieved either way. I'd also rather have our people eat half the eggs all the way until the right number of hens has been achieved - makes more sense in terms of balanced nutrition.

[jolo]

Jolo please read one of our books and then go collect every thing you need to make me (from scratch no using anything we brought along except the blacksmith tools) a carbon steel Bowie knife . Come on Jolo we got the knowledge its right there in the book. Jolo know that was mean of me but this is what people are tring to point out "we have the knowledge but not the skills for most of the things we are going to need done. Opps sorry Dr What

I'm not saying anyone is producing high tech knifes - everything I proposed is pure low tech - even below the wagons you're building. And it's a fraction of the overall effort of the colony. And it helps to make the food gathering efforts more productive.

[jolo]

There are cases where a colony which was sent out, completly disappeared with no trace a year later. Roanoke. The first colonies of North America, such as Jamestown lost 60% of there population in the first year. And, Jamestown was a colony set up as a European town of the time. If you look at the records of the early colonies, this death rate was typical in the first few years.

Yes, we have some idea of natural resources in the area. But, we still need to find them and access them. A market economy will work, but only after everyone pulls together to survive the first couple of years. Until man had an excess of food available, having skilled trades could not develop. Why was the period from the stone age to bronze age so long? There was to much work to do just to survive.

Jolo, I am not saying you will not be able to develop a trade establishment. Indeed, if that is your dream, I am for it. I am saying, though, that our best option is to work together until the time we have the excess food. Until everyone is on a stable footing, without having to worry about where the next meal comes from, we cannot afford the task of manufacturing extra items beyond what we need to survive.

Example: We need twenty wagons, and I build 30, hoping to sell the extra ten. We need two new homes, and I am tieing up my resources building ten extra wagons. We need 37 barrels for food storage, but I am tieing up my resources building ten extra wagons. Did I accomplish anything besides not making the barrels needed to store extra food, or not building two houses so living conditions are not overcrowded? All I have done is build ten wagons that might be used next year. Better to build the wagons next year.

Two years down the road: We have sufficient housing, sufficient food stores, and currently have sufficient storage capability. The wagons in use are starting to break down and need to be replaced soon. So if I build ten wagons now, they will soon be able to be purchased for use.

Like in many developing countries, a market economy works even if we have only very little food and time available. The main reason it took so much time for development before the invention of writing was that the people didn't know about their possibilities. As said before, a hunter usually spends only 15h a *week* hunting, and not much more for producing weapons or the likes. Time was usually available - it was just not used. It would make more sense to compare our efforts with 19th century colonisation.

In a market, there will automatically only be the items the people *really* need as long as there is no surplus of the basic necessities. Because when people have to spend all their money for the basics, the ones producing something else will get no buyer. In your example with the 10 extra wagons, no-one would be able to buy them from you. Maybe a rich Amerindian chief - but then he'd have to pay you a good price to make the effort worthwhile for you - which should usually mean lots of food for all of us.

The problem of factor allocation is completely overlooked by all of you - it's basically *impossible* to plan how many barrels will be needed - or any other items. And planning such things centrally will sure lead to bad factor allocation - which is a nice phrase for starvation. You guys were about to build one wagon for each family before I intervened - and you still believe central planning works? I don't understand you at all...

[Ward]

Well the BBC had a show on lfe in a Saxson Village and it was a all hands drill just to live . They almost lost a child whos family was living in the mock town to food poisning . With what I brought and Norbert brought and my youngest son took over we do not have enogh to survier the first year.

How many of you evere used a plow ?
How many of you can milk a cow , build a house , make soap or any of the every day ideams we are going to need to know .

Yes I had a class in basket weaving but that was over 30 years ago . But at less I have an understanding how to do it.

Yes I killed animals and taned there skin can any of you out side a few of us old timers do this .

Rember most of us in this board live in the city and only get out in the country on hunting and camping trips .

We do not have that much going for us . One we are short on seeds , and knowage to live as dirt farmers ,

Dose any one know were the term acre came from ?
Its an old term that means how much one man and a team of oxen can plow in one day with a wood plow . And thats what most of you guys will be useing .

We dont have a large mill stone to grind are Flour with , and we will not have much wheat the first or 2 nd harvest to make flour with .we will need it for seed .

Who amoung you brought equpment to work a guarden let alone a field .

[Ghost 88]

Jolo I'm quite aware that we arn't going to have 18000 hens in a week or so alot of that post was meant to point out some of the problems we are facing one of which is division of manpower to two communities. Myself I nominate you a Minister of trade the office becoming effective once the COMMUNITY is self sustaining. As to the knives I was trying to point out to you that we don't have a tech base that can make things yet. By the way your idea about pottery would be a good thing to teach the mid range children to do. BUT as a project were it goes to the COMMUNITY as a whole until such time as an abundence of products allow us to use the excess in trade. You've made much about the early European colonies being traders you are right as far as you take it.Unfortunatly the ASBs didnot send us here to trade,and before you say "how do you know"its simple they didn't send us with enough to have trade items as a fact I'm not sure we have enough even to survive. you,me, and the rest of the AH COMMUNITY are going to have to in the short term get over the "this is mine and I am not sharing atitude" that seems to be prevailant in this group. Jolo,to many people hear the word commune and say "Blank blank commies suck" the reality is almost every colony settled was for the first few years a commune. No colony could survive without everyone pulling towards the survival of the colony. Now I fully realize that this is a RPG we are doing and had we been put down like Grantsville in a middle age setting then your roll playing a trader would be appropriate what people are trying to impart to you is it is much too soon to be breaking down our group to a level of Specialization that would allow for traders. Just between you and me if this was Middle ages I'd left to be a merc. Jolo you are NOT the only one who needs to step back and look at our human resources and revise what it is possible for us to accomplish

[jolo]

Well the BBC had a show on lfe in a Saxson Village and it was a all hands drill just to live . They almost lost a child whos family was living in the mock town to food poisning . With what I brought and Norbert brought and my youngest son took over we do not have enogh to survier the first year.

How many of you evere used a plow ?
How many of you can milk a cow , build a house , make soap or any of the every day ideams we are going to need to know .

Yes I had a class in basket weaving but that was over 30 years ago . But at less I have an understanding how to do it.

Yes I killed animals and taned there skin can any of you out side a few of us old timers do this .

Rember most of us in this board live in the city and only get out in the country on hunting and camping trips .

We do not have that much going for us . One we are short on seeds , and knowage to live as dirt farmers ,

Dose any one know were the term acre came from ?
Its an old term that means how much one man and a team of oxen can plow in one day with a wood plow . And thats what most of you guys will be useing .

We dont have a large mill stone to grind are Flour with , and we will not have much wheat the first or 2 nd harvest to make flour with .we will need it for seed .

Who amoung you brought equpment to work a guarden let alone a field .

As we don't have too many seeds, the steel plows should be enough for the first season. We won't get through the virgin soil with big plows anyways, I suppose.

I'm also not saying life will be easy - though if we avoid political correctness, we could hunt down whales - would be enough food for several weeks each, and lots of material for other purposes.

[Ghost 88]

Well the BBC had a show on lfe in a Saxson Village and it was a all hands drill just to live . They almost lost a child whos family was living in the mock town to food poisning . With what I brought and Norbert brought and my youngest son took over we do not have enogh to survier the first year.

How many of you evere used a plow ?
How many of you can milk a cow , build a house , make soap or any of the every day ideams we are going to need to know .

Yes I had a class in basket weaving but that was over 30 years ago . But at less I have an understanding how to do it.

Yes I killed animals and taned there skin can any of you out side a few of us old timers do this .

Rember most of us in this board live in the city and only get out in the country on hunting and camping trips .

We do not have that much going for us . One we are short on seeds , and knowage to live as dirt farmers ,

Dose any one know were the term acre came from ?
Its an old term that means how much one man and a team of oxen can plow in one day with a wood plow . And thats what most of you guys will be useing .

We dont have a large mill stone to grind are Flour with , and we will not have much wheat the first or 2 nd harvest to make flour with .we will need it for seed .

Who amoung you brought equpment to work a guarden let alone a field .
HEY Ward over here see me waving my hand I can build a house,know the basic of milking a cow more pull than squeeze. Hope to God we brought enough steel plows to get by on although my idea of fun don'y include looking at the southbound end of a northbound mule I know I could get the hang of it. most of the other things no. But speaking of houses I was thinking we might consider adobe insteadof logs.

[jolo]

Jolo I'm quite aware that we arn't going to have 18000 hens in a week or so alot of that post was meant to point out some of the problems we are facing one of which is division of manpower to two communities. Myself I nominate you a Minister of trade the office becoming effective once the COMMUNITY is self sustaining. As to the knives I was trying to point out to you that we don't have a tech base that can make things yet. By the way your idea about pottery would be a good thing to teach the mid range children to do. BUT as a project were it goes to the COMMUNITY as a whole until such time as an abundence of products allow us to use the excess in trade. You've made much about the early European colonies being traders you are right as far as you take it.Unfortunatly the ASBs didnot send us here to trade,and before you say "how do you know"its simple they didn't send us with enough to have trade items as a fact I'm not sure we have enough even to survive. you,me, and the rest of the AH COMMUNITY are going to have to in the short term get over the "this is mine and I am not sharing atitude" that seems to be prevailant in this group. Jolo,to many people hear the word commune and say "Blank blank commies suck" the reality is almost every colony settled was for the first few years a commune. No colony could survive without everyone pulling towards the survival of the colony. Now I fully realize that this is a RPG we are doing and had we been put down like Grantsville in a middle age setting then your roll playing a trader would be appropriate what people are trying to impart to you is it is much too soon to be breaking down our group to a level of Specialization that would allow for traders. Just between you and me if this was Middle ages I'd left to be a merc. Jolo you are NOT the only one who needs to step back and look at our human resources and revise what it is possible for us to accomplish

What I'm saying is that without trade we'll simply never reach the point where we'll produce a surplus - because there can only be trade or central planning. And central planning never worked.

The division of man power is an advantage imo - we're spread over a bigger territory and therefore have more food available. It's the same as the renegades, just with more cooperation - and the advantage that Ian's Fort will be able to help Ianopolis with food once it produces surplus.

I'm not refusing to share - I'm just refusing to do it in an unproductive way.

And of the successful colonies with at least 100 people at the start, I don't know many which started as a commune and were able to survive without outside help. Why do you think British colonies were more successful than most other colonies? Because of their superior understanding of economics.

And I still didn't see a reason why a group of 272 people shouldn't be able to support 10 people who btw. aren't pure traders, but more like craftsmen who also offer a service to save other people lots of time and effort.

With your 2700 people, I'm pretty sure you'd already have a flourishing black market if it was really happening - because that's what people do - even in communes.

[Ward]

HEY Ward over here see me waving my hand I can build a house,know the basic of milking a cow more pull than squeeze. Hope to God we brought enough steel plows to get by on although my idea of fun don'y include looking at the southbound end of a northbound mule I know I could get the hang of it. most of the other things no. But speaking of houses I was thinking we might consider adobe insteadof logs.


Yes Ghost88 but how old are you . Are you not like me in your 50's .

As far As I know right now we have 3 steel plows only and two were Brough
over by a member who left are marry band the first day.

Hell I have one of the largest families here with two members of the board coming over and we dont have enough food to last us a till the crops come in .

I wish we had another ton of stuff for each member to bring over .

I would take over 1,000 lbs of seeds and another 1,000 lbs of food with me

And if it was for both my son and myself I would take a wood burning kitchen stove ,spinning wheel , the mecanical parts of a potters wheel , milk cans , iteams to make cheese , some cuttings of trees , Some leather wooking tools and a butter turn . Plus a lot of other little things I have forgoten . Who besides my self brought over canning jars and gaskets for them .

[Ghost 88]

What I'm saying is that without trade we'll simply never reach the point where we'll produce a surplus - because there can only be trade or central planning. And central planning never worked.

The division of man power is an advantage imo - we're spread over a bigger territory and therefore have more food available. It's the same as the renegades, just with more cooperation - and the advantage that Ian's Fort will be able to help Ianopolis with food once it produces surplus.

I'm not refusing to share - I'm just refusing to do it in an unproductive way.

And of the successful colonies with at least 100 people at the start, I don't know many which started as a commune and were able to survive without outside help. Why do you think British colonies were more successful than most other colonies? Because of their superior understanding of economics.

And I still didn't see a reason why a group of 272 people shouldn't be able to support 10 people who btw. aren't pure traders, but more like craftsmen who also offer a service to save other people lots of time and effort.

With your 2700 people, I'm pretty sure you'd already have a flourishing black market if it was really happening - because that's what people do - even in communes.
Fact the more we spread out the more guards we need
a perimiter of 1000 meters/yards at night would take 10 people minimum 3 shifts 2hrs on 4hrs off thats 30 people each and every night because I for one do not trust the locals I don't distrust them either you will need guards for your goods another 6, guard capts 3 .we are up to 39 people each night and maybe half that by day.Jolo trading as the colonials did it took one hell of alot more than one man setting up a table with you and just the Guards you got 40 people and Ward has not fully explained this but our yield per acre is going to be miniscule compared to modern times plus I'm not so sure about 15 hrs a week for hunters. do know your farmers will work from "can see to can't see" 7 days a week during plantihg and harvest. Almost that long inbetween,weeding geting water to the plants and from what I've heard we brought along we don't have enough pipe to irragate 5 acres we can build ditches but that takes time Also if Ian's fort has as little rain and as much heat as people have been posting I think the outcome is Jolos dead and what ever the locals caqn scavenge is thiers free and the backers of Jolo the Trader are bankrupt Of course what do I know I've only spent 40 years reading about North American History

[jolo]

Yes Ghost88 but how old are you . Are you not like me in your 50's .

As far As I know right now we have 3 steel plows only and two were Brough
over by a member who left are marry band the first day.

Hell I have one of the largest families here with two members of the board coming over and we dont have enough food to last us a till the crops come in .

I wish we had another ton of stuff for each member to bring over .

I would take over 1,000 lbs of seeds and another 1,000 lbs of food with me

And if it was for both my son and myself I would take a wood burning kitchen stove ,spinning wheel , the mecanical parts of a potters wheel , milk cans , iteams to make cheese , some cuttings of trees , Some leather wooking tools and a butter turn . Plus a lot of other little things I have forgoten . Who besides my self brought over canning jars and gaskets for them .

I brought one plow - though without handles. If it's really that few, this one will be needed here. I thought a plow would be standard equipment for nearly everyone...

With our tools, we should be able to build plows from large stones - if we'd find large flint stones, they'd even be pretty sharp and easy to keep sharp (for a while)

[Ward]

Fact the more we spread out the more guards we need
a perimiter of 1000 meters/yards at night would take 10 people minimum 3 shifts 2hrs on 4hrs off thats 30 people each and every night because I for one do not trust the locals I don't distrust them either you will need guards for your goods another 6, guard capts 3 .we are up to 39 people each night and maybe half that by day.Jolo trading as the colonials did it took one hell of alot more than one man setting up a table with you and just the Guards you got 40 people and Ward has not fully explained this but our yield per acre


Norbert put up a link to a site that gives you a yeild per acre on the diffrent seeds .


Hell you guys wounder why I would have a stroke again just thinking about what we need and have would raise my blood presure to cause it .

Rember we will not be able to go to the market for Food if we need it ..
Hell lets take a bear and say its dress out at 1000 lbs which is high that comes out to less than 0.2857 of a lb of meat per person for 3500 people.

[Doctor What]

Hell lets take a bear and say its dress out at 1000 lbs which is high that comes out to less than 0.2857 of a lb of meat per person for 3500 people.

That's basically just the meat you find in one quarterpounder at McDonald's.

No bread. No fries. Not even a pickle. Just the meat patty itself.

Crap--I'm a skinny dude and that's just a snack for me....

[Ghost 88]

Yes Ghost88 but how old are you . Are you not like me in your 50's .

As far As I know right now we have 3 steel plows only and two were Brough
over by a member who left are marry band the first day.

Hell I have one of the largest families here with two members of the board coming over and we dont have enough food to last us a till the crops come in .

I wish we had another ton of stuff for each member to bring over .

I would take over 1,000 lbs of seeds and another 1,000 lbs of food with me

And if it was for both my son and myself I would take a wood burning kitchen stove ,spinning wheel , the mecanical parts of a potters wheel , milk cans , iteams to make cheese , some cuttings of trees , Some leather wooking tools and a butter turn . Plus a lot of other little things I have forgoten . Who besides my self brought over canning jars and gaskets for them .
Ward I agree. 53 to be exact. and did I sound optimistic to you? I hope not in my opion we b seriosly (insert word for sexual intercourse here) The list is long on how many misinterpatations of reality we have made. ?? you get a random chance on your stroke today or was it adlib I had thought the ASBs cleared up all of our problems If not IM screwed???

[pisces74]

I think the point everyone is trying to make is that our time around the apartment is limited, We need to build some food stores, and we need to not poison our water supply. Anyone not doing this will be a drain on the community stores. Hell I think that the amount of effort you putting into a marketplace and the effort being put into the great hunt would be better utilized getting the hell out of our current placement, but I'm not a leader of men. I'll probably trade that beaver at a loss and get the hell out of dodge in the next couple of days. Lastly currency only has worth if you have faith in the government backing it. the faith i have in the currency you propose as yet is somewhere around the norton dollar and kenyan click bone coins.

[Doctor What]

Dr. What brought Psycho back to his tent. Ahmick was nowhere to be seen. Sarah and a few other people were sitting around a campfire, cooking some kind of stew.

“Sarah—where’s Ahmick?”
“He took a plate of food and a bowl of stew over to the woods—same place where he was sleeping last night.” She looked at him more closely “Bruno—are you ok? You don’t look too good…”
Doc looked around and leaned over to Sarah and whispered “Ward’s very sick—can you…can you do me a favor and check up on Mrs. Ward? I know she probably has a hundred people checking up on her right now but I think she would like to see you—you two seemed to hit it off right away. It...it would make me feel a bit better knowing that you there watching out for her.”

Sarah nodded her head and grabbed a bowl of stew, kissing him as she passed by.

“You know something Psycho—I’m beginning to think that I really don’t deserve someone that good in my life” said Doc, looking at Sarah walk off

“May the gods bless the patience of wives everywhere—as husbands are nothing more than insensitive bastards” said Psycho with a smile.

“That’s really deep, man”

“It’s an ancient Navaho saying I just made up.” said Psycho, still smiling. “I’m going to write a whole book of them. Now where’s this Indian of yours?”

**
They found Ahmick sitting in a clearing about 100 feet or so from the edge of the camp. He was serenely looking up at the sky and nibbling at a huge plate of food that was lying next to an empty bowl of stew. His back was to them.

“Ahmick. Friend” said Doc.

Ahmick got up and turned around with a smile—and his jaw dropped upon seeing Psycho. He closed his jaw, then opened it again. After a few seconds, he closed it again.

“Psycho—Ahmick. Ahmick –Psycho”

“Zi-Co?” said Ahmick. He walked over to Psycho and, with his finger, slowly touched Psycho’s face, his nose, his cheeks and his hair. “Miwok?” he said

Psycho glanced at Doc with a questioning look

“As near as I can figure—Miwok is the name of their tribe” said Doc. He pointed at Psycho- “Navaho”. He pointed at Ahmick- “Miwok”.

He made a fist with his right hand “Navaho”. He made a fist with his left hand “Miwok”. He shook his two hands together ‘Friend’

“Friend? Tagasa?” said Ahmick.

Another questioning look from Psycho.

“Tagasa means—well, I’m not 100% sure—it could mean either brother, tribe member or companion—translation isn’t an exact science, you know?”

“Yes” said Doc, nodding his head at Ahmick–“Tagasa”

**

The next hour or so was spent using the same mish-mash of sign language and ‘show and tell’ techniques that was used before. Ahmick seemed a bit more animated with Psycho than he was with either Flocc or himself—Doc guessed that his idea was correct—Psycho’s looks were a bit more familiar to Ahmick and he seemed to want to open up to him a bit more.

Pity we know so little of his language…

Psycho got up. “This has been fun, Doc—but I’ve got a million things to prepare for that big hunt we’re going to do. Plus I want to see what’s happening with Ward”.

“Yeah—I’m worried about him too. By the way, Psycho—about the hunt. Er—I think it might be a very good idea not to have Ahmick here on that day”

“Yeah—I was thinking the same thing. I’ll go see if we can get him back to his village that day. I’m assuming that you want to come along?”

“Does a curac jako in the mekwah?” said Doc with a grin. Ahmick let out a bark of laughter. Psycho just looked at the two of them with a perplexed look on his face.

“Crazy canucks and Indians…” he muttered, as he walked away.

**

“Oh Leo—I have a friend that I would like you to meet”…

**
Just after sunset

It had been a hell of a long day—between all that happened with Ward, the meetings with Psycho and Leo and everything else, Doc felt like he was going to collapse from sheer exhaustion. He had one last thing he needed to do before turning in, tho.

“Matt—it’s me-Bruno”
“Bruno! What’s up man?”
“Sorry to interrupt your dinner but I was wondering if I could pick your brain about your meetings with Ahmick’s people?”
“Sure. Uh—dude—you don’t look too good--when was the last time you had food?”
“Umm—this morning—I think…I’m actually not sure, to be honest…”

A vary large plate of food was offered to Doc.

“Eat first—then we talk”.

**
Ahmick lay in the sleeping bag near the edge of the camp, thinking.

These people are truly a strange and powerful group. They have many things in common with the Miwok—they eat the same food, even if they call it by a different name. But they are so unlike us as well. They can bring down the mighty bear with ease. They have the seeds-that-look-like-worms-but-are-not. They have the soft-yellow-stone-that-tastes-like-egg they call cee-sa. They have many strange tools. They have baskets made of stone but are as light as wood. They do not fear the other animals of the forests—they made no attempt to cover the smell of blood and shit and piss and sweat.

They either do not know the dangers of the forest or they do not care.

I do not know which one frightens me more….

[Ward]

Ward I agree. 53 to be exact. and did I sound optimistic to you? I hope not in my opion we b seriosly (insert word for sexual intercourse here) The list is long on how many misinterpatations of reality we have made. ?? you get a random chance on your stroke today or was it adlib I had thought the ASBs cleared up all of our problems If not IM screwed???


No I was looking at the postings and thinking how bad a day it was .
I just said Damn it I would more then likey stroke out again under all that stress . Rember I have all my kids and Grandkids with me .

You have to rember I was trying to be incharge of this ( same word you used ) up group of people . There are to many Alpha males in this group for any one person to control .

It was a minor one and I will get back to work in a week . But I will not try to run the camp as I was before . I will just advise and give pointers but not try to be the leader again .

[pisces74]

No I was looking at the postings and thinking how bad a day it was .
I just said Damn it I would more then likey stroke out again under all that stress . Rember I have all my kids and Grandkids with me .

You have to rember I was trying to be incharge of this ( same word you used ) up group of people . There are to many Alpha males in this group for any one person to control .

It was a minor one and I will get back to work in a week . But I will not try to run the camp as I was before . I will just advise and give pointers but not try to be the leader again .

Would this be a good time to interest you in a slightly used beaver? ;)

[Ghost 88]

I think the point everyone is trying to make is that our time around the apartment is limited, We need to build some food stores, and we need to not poison our water supply. Anyone not doing this will be a drain on the community stores. Hell I think that the amount of effort you putting into a marketplace and the effort being put into the great hunt would be better utilized getting the hell out of our current placement, but I'm not a leader of men. I'll probably trade that beaver at a loss and get the hell out of dodge in the next couple of days. Lastly currency only has worth if you have faith in the government backing it. the faith i have in the currency you propose as yet is somewhere around the norton dollar and kenyan click bone coins.
Pi,you ever get the feeling sometimes your post arn't being read I also have a gripe about the "Big Hunt"

[Norbert]

I brought one plow - though without handles. If it's really that few, this one will be needed here. I thought a plow would be standard equipment for nearly everyone...

With our tools, we should be able to build plows from large stones - if we'd find large flint stones, they'd even be pretty sharp and easy to keep sharp (for a while)

First, Jamestown, mentioned in my earlier post, was a British Colony. My ancestors at Jamestown were amoung the lucky ones who did survive. And it had over 60% fatalities. Roanoke was a British colony, and NO ONE knows what really happened to it to have disappeared.

As to plows using stones: An idea, but I will tell you from my own experience that the problems with wood plows would be the same as using some sort of stone. Flint? To brittle, and it would shatter with the first rock you hit, and believe me, I've plowed fields that had been plowed for 60 years, and every year we were pulling stones out of the field. The problem of a wood bladed plow is not that it doesn't hold an edge, it is that the blade clogs up with wet dirt and clay. The real advantage of the steel plow is most of the dirt slides off it, and even then there are times and conditions that make you have to stop and clean off the blade every hundred yards.

[Ghost 88]

No I was looking at the postings and thinking how bad a day it was .
I just said Damn it I would more then likey stroke out again under all that stress . Rember I have all my kids and Grandkids with me .

You have to rember I was trying to be incharge of this ( same word you used ) up group of people . There are to many Alpha males in this group for any one person to control .

It was a minor one and I will get back to work in a week . But I will not try to run the camp as I was before . I will just advise and give pointers but not try to be the leader again .
I have wondered some why I bother to post at all I thought my post to Jolo made scince. O well as to the incharge I'm typing Impaired and sometimes ferget the itse bitse space bar on this keyboard.

[pisces74]

Pi,you ever get the feeling sometimes your post arn't being read I also have a gripe about the "Big Hunt"

I'm not a leader of men, and as a result I'm pretty inconsequential. I don't expect everyone to hang off my posts ;) also I've been pretty overwhelmed on a personal level trying to generate a family food surplus. with everything going on I can see why my posts are getting lost in the shuffle, but I'm amused so I'll play:p ( I also screwed the pooch by thinking I was in the wrong area when the group was ISOTed)

[Ghost 88]

First, Jamestown, mentioned in my earlier post, was a British Colony. My ancestors at Jamestown were amoung the lucky ones who did survive. And it had over 60% fatalities. Roanoke was a British colony, and NO ONE knows what really happened to it to have disappeared.

As to plows using stones: An idea, but I will tell you from my own experience that the problems with wood plows would be the same as using some sort of stone. Flint? To brittle, and it would shatter with the first rock you hit, and believe me, I've plowed fields that had been plowed for 60 years, and every year we were pulling stones out of the field. The problem of a wood bladed plow is not that it doesn't hold an edge, it is that the blade clogs up with wet dirt and clay. The real advantage of the steel plow is most of the dirt slides off it, and even then there are times and conditions that make you have to stop and clean off the blade every hundred yards.
Im worried that the soil were we are going going to be like Karl Mauldin's in "how the west was won" "well you see we had to leave we was getting 40 bushels of rock per acre" I once resided in Lake CO. CA.up about 100 miles northof the bay and east of Interstate 5 and you might get 40 bushels of obsidion per acre there they had a valcano extinct type about half a mile from Kelsyville the town I was living in at the time Knowing that most of the mountians in NorCal are of the volcano persausion there maybe alot of rock where we are going(or if the bay was formed by glaciers there will be alot of rocks there

[Ghost 88]

I'm not a leader of men, and as a result I'm pretty inconsequential. I don't expect everyone to hang off my posts ;) also I've been pretty overwhelmed on a personal level trying to generate a family food surplus. with everything going on I can see why my posts are getting lost in the shuffle, but I'm amused so I'll play:p ( I also screwed the pooch by thinking I was in the wrong area when the group was ISOTed)
Sorry I was crying about my own posts I think I've read all u have posted

[SionEwig]

Sorry I was crying about my own posts I think I've read all u have posted

I've read everything that everyone has posted in ALT except for the stuff on the trial and shooting, tryin to keep myself out of the know if i need to be on the jury:) .

Most of the time I just don't have anything to say on stuff, and as far as Jolo goes, he seems to read what is said to him, just doesn't seem to comprehend most of it.

[Norbert]

I'm not a leader of men, and as a result I'm pretty inconsequential. I don't expect everyone to hang off my posts ;) also I've been pretty overwhelmed on a personal level trying to generate a family food surplus. with everything going on I can see why my posts are getting lost in the shuffle, but I'm amused so I'll play:p ( I also screwed the pooch by thinking I was in the wrong area when the group was ISOTed)

Naw, its not that people are not reading your posts. I am!! I may not be replying to them, but our paths haven't really crossed, and I am having trouble remembering whos paths I have crossed. Two days ago, I counted about 2,400 posts on this thing, and I went away today for 9 hours and it took me an hour to just read what was posted in that time. I've been trying to post things in two ways. Most of the time, trying to be constructive, supportive, and trying to get things done. The other is trying to post something that I hope people have fun reading, like my posts on my playing with a big kitty cat, and what happened afterwards (Though, the post of what was heard outside Glenns tent was just something I did to lighten the mood:p )

By the way, I wouldn't like to see you going away, and I hope we can figure something out where you don't feel so inconsequential.

[pisces74]

I'm not crying about my posts not being read, I'm on the societal fringe by design. As a result I've little contact with people. I'm glad to know my posts are being read however, and I greatly enjoy this game as its the first one of its type I've partcipated in.

[Forum Lurker]

Im worried that the soil were we are going going to be like Karl Mauldin's in "how the west was won" "well you see we had to leave we was getting 40 bushels of rock per acre" I once resided in Lake CO. CA.up about 100 miles northof the bay and east of Interstate 5 and you might get 40 bushels of obsidion per acre there they had a valcano extinct type about half a mile from Kelsyville the town I was living in at the time Knowing that most of the mountians in NorCal are of the volcano persausion there maybe alot of rock where we are going(or if the bay was formed by glaciers there will be alot of rocks there
That's why I brought potatoes. If you hit rock, you just move over a bit and dig another hole; no plow, no problem. They're not as good for mass production, but for a small family farm to supplement my income from an eventual medical practice, it's much better.

[jolo]

I think the point everyone is trying to make is that our time around the apartment is limited, We need to build some food stores, and we need to not poison our water supply. Anyone not doing this will be a drain on the community stores. Hell I think that the amount of effort you putting into a marketplace and the effort being put into the great hunt would be better utilized getting the hell out of our current placement, but I'm not a leader of men. I'll probably trade that beaver at a loss and get the hell out of dodge in the next couple of days. Lastly currency only has worth if you have faith in the government backing it. the faith i have in the currency you propose as yet is somewhere around the norton dollar and kenyan click bone coins.

Acceptance would be a key problem in real life - which is why money was backed with gold for such a long time. Black markets used cigarettes or the likes as currency - always possible to find someone to pay the full price. Food was sometimes used as currency, but that will get too rare pretty soon. We don't have the time to dig for gold to back the currency - and not enough people who'd appreciate gold atm. Leaves only the coins we bring along or some kind of self made money as possibilities. I spent a lot of time thinking about how to make sure people *want* this money - selling and leasing allotments should be completely enough to make sure people try to get all the money they can get. That will automatically lead to a value for the currency. And for people not trusting in the currency - they can spend whatever they get immediately, or continue bartering.

The few people putting effort in the market place are the ones who are going to stay - the area isn't the best, but it should be good enough for a small town. It doesn't harm the main settlers the least - one worker less, one hungry mouth less.

I agree with you that people should start leaving with light equipment - diplomats, rangers, lumber jacks and so on can do a lot of work without all the baggage, which can be brought later.

[Gerard-ABC]

Pisces74,

Remember that many people who visit AH.COM are guests, and not members. I visited here for over a year before this "A Little Trip" finally tempted me to sign up.

And for every member, there is at least one Guest, I'd think.

In my experience on another message board, the ratio of read-only to read-and-write was 15 or 20 to 1.

So, lots more read your messages, than reply.

There is a limit to how many replies / threads someone can keep up with too.

Keep on going, you'll do fine.


Regards,
Gerard

[jolo]

Most of the time I just don't have anything to say on stuff, and as far as Jolo goes, he seems to read what is said to him, just doesn't seem to comprehend most of it.


I got the same impression the other way around - and I have difficulties to understand why people deliberately try a non-functioning system. There appears to be some romanticism involved in this - but that would be pretty costly to us if we really got into such a situation.

[jolo]

First, Jamestown, mentioned in my earlier post, was a British Colony. My ancestors at Jamestown were amoung the lucky ones who did survive. And it had over 60% fatalities. Roanoke was a British colony, and NO ONE knows what really happened to it to have disappeared.

As to plows using stones: An idea, but I will tell you from my own experience that the problems with wood plows would be the same as using some sort of stone. Flint? To brittle, and it would shatter with the first rock you hit, and believe me, I've plowed fields that had been plowed for 60 years, and every year we were pulling stones out of the field. The problem of a wood bladed plow is not that it doesn't hold an edge, it is that the blade clogs up with wet dirt and clay. The real advantage of the steel plow is most of the dirt slides off it, and even then there are times and conditions that make you have to stop and clean off the blade every hundred yards.

I'm not saying everything was a success - just more than most of the others.

Thanks for enlightening me about the plows. I suppose we should try to get some metal melted asap - but I'll leave that to someone else - suspension of disbelief is already a little brittle in my case... :D

[jolo]

Fact the more we spread out the more guards we need
a perimiter of 1000 meters/yards at night would take 10 people minimum 3 shifts 2hrs on 4hrs off thats 30 people each and every night because I for one do not trust the locals I don't distrust them either you will need guards for your goods another 6, guard capts 3 .we are up to 39 people each night and maybe half that by day.Jolo trading as the colonials did it took one hell of alot more than one man setting up a table with you and just the Guards you got 40 people and Ward has not fully explained this but our yield per acre is going to be miniscule compared to modern times plus I'm not so sure about 15 hrs a week for hunters. do know your farmers will work from "can see to can't see" 7 days a week during plantihg and harvest. Almost that long inbetween,weeding geting water to the plants and from what I've heard we brought along we don't have enough pipe to irragate 5 acres we can build ditches but that takes time Also if Ian's fort has as little rain and as much heat as people have been posting I think the outcome is Jolos dead and what ever the locals caqn scavenge is thiers free and the backers of Jolo the Trader are bankrupt Of course what do I know I've only spent 40 years reading about North American History

I do expect all outposts which are used over night to keep at least one person awake at any time - which is why they have at least ten people to start with. I do expect some guards to patrol the whole area the whole time. We also have quite a few dogs able to warn people of intruders. I do see further advantages in our night vision equipment, our weapons, and our numbers - most tribes in the area will not be able or willing to muster enough warriors to become a danger. With areas being cleared of trees, and houses being built, safety should increase even more. There's still a risk, but at least we don't risk loosing everyone at once.

The 15 hrs for a hunter was somewhere in the ALT threat - not by me. It depends a lot on how much game there is, though.

As I see it, the area has lots of creeks thanks to all the hills and mountains there. That alone should hold enough possibilities for a few hundred people to survive - as happened obviously IOTL. There also appear to be areas with worse climate able to support bigger populations. And afaik, most treks to the area had real problems only during the journey or under extreme conditions we are unlikely to face. Once they did arrive, they usually managed somehow.

[NapoleonXIV]

The strange man awoke. It was dark at night. He was dizzy. He felt something over him and realized it was a covering, something made of vines and leaves and apparently quite serviceable in keeping him warm. His leg hurt like hell. He was hungry.

He felt something warm beside him and looked over. The girl he had seen before was sleeping next to him, her small and naked body tight against his own. He checked and found he was still clothed.

Oh well.

He raised his head and looked around. A naked, little man crouched on the ground next to him, he was looking at him with a very intent and curious expression.

"Mandelbrot Set", he said quite clearly.

The little man took picked up some plants at his feet that looked like spinach. He began to stuff them into the strange man's mouth, who at first tried to stop him, then suddenly realized how hungry he was. He took them in and began chewing. They were terrible.

The strange man looked back at the little man. "I....don't....", then stopped. Another wave of sickness moved over him, much like a wave at sea. Then pain, nausea, dizziness redoubled again.

"At least I don't have to shit,..... oh bleeding goddam no,... WHY did I have to think that?"

He pushed himself up on his elbows and looked around, wondering how he was going to move when his leg hurt so badly, mercifully, he passed out again at this point.

The little man looked down at his unconscious form and smiled slightly. "Mandelbrot Set", he said again.

[Grimm Reaper]

Grimm awoke with the dawn, and just lay back for a moment enjoying the view. Looking away from -----, he then enjoyed the incredible number of birds greeting the dawn before kissing his new wife and getting up.

The first few days of physical labor hadn't been much of a problem, as he had always been a steady kind of guy, and he had needed time to start making plans.

It was fortunate that he remembered to provide enough insulation between his sleeping bag and the ground to avoid unneeded chill, and unfortunate he didn't remember that lesson until AFTER the first night.:rolleyes:

What fun it had been to meet so many of the AH crew at last, including his inevitable meeting with Doctor What. They would get along well, he could tell. Now, however, the situation was getting more serious and it appeared that Grimm's ideas might get better play than at the beginning.

He considered his basic arguments, hoping he could actually make it work.

Specifically, the need to establish one or more fishing camps as soon as possible. Once a year or two had gone by and fields were established with proper crop experience under everyone's belt, there should be little trouble keeping together and producing a surplus, but until the first crop was in the only options would be hunting, gathering, and fishing and fishing had obvious advantages, even if some of us hated fish.

For one thing, small camps could produce enormous amounts of food via fishing, and maintaining a fair population in close quarters could prove useful at avoiding trouble with the locals or in handling said trouble if it happened.

For another, hunting or gathering would ravage the entire area of edibles, guaranteeing problems where fishing would not and might even serve as a useful basis for trade.

Finally, given so many things which needed doing, any project which guaranteed a large food production while letting people remain closer together was bound to facilitate other necessary work.

His decision made, he headed off to find someone with more woodworking skill, to get started on a boat. He had the lines and hooks and even a net, and could probably feed ten people for every one in a crew, now he just needed to get his crew and his boat.

What's that ruckus over by Ward's tent? Hope nothing's wrong?

:eek: :( :(

[Psychomeltdown]

Should have gone yesterday, but aw, well. Just a little set up for my plans for Day 6








2200

"So he was fondling your face?' Nizhoni asked with a smile.

"Yeah. Like he was in love with me or something." Psycho replied equally smiling.

"Gots a bad taste in men, if that's so." Nizhoni replied.

"But it's cool, y'know. A real life Injun." Psycho said.

"How does he look like?" Nizhoni asked.

"Why do you want to know?" Psycho asked, grinning.

"Just want to know what kind of man is stealing my husband."

Psycho laughed. "Y'know basic Native American. Short, skinny as hell, wearing animal skins."

"Sounds dreamy." Nizhoni replied.

"We should meet him. In the morning." Psycho said.

What about your Duties?" Nizhoni asked.

Psycho shook his head. "No longer a problem. I'm going administration, bigger paycheck. more responsibility, and the ability to shove the hard work to the peons." He said.

"And I wa