Councal meeting

[Ward]

How do we get more people to work ?

What should we do about fire arms in camp ?

What about the rest of the herds ?

[Matt]

Weapon M

I would like to see the building of a fence around the community. This way we can establish Entry Control Points. Weapons can then be made safe before entry the community.

[Ward]

Weapon M

I would like to see the building of a fence around the community. This way we can establish Entry Control Points. Weapons can then be made safe before entry the community.



I have to agree about an entry point but I would rather see that work going into wagons for the move .

[Norbert]

I, too, would agree to limited entry points, but to fence in would be 1500 yards of fence, mininum. More work than we can afford to do right now. Perhaps the old-fashioned peace-bond? A strip of colorful fabric used to mark that a weapon is in safe mode? Granted, it could be 'forged', but for right now, it is the best solution. Also, when at meetings of the group as a whole, have an area set up and GUARDED where any carried weapons are to be deposited. At the Trail, no one except for the prisoners guards will be armed, with a punishment for smuggling in a firearm. The Trial may well have some very emotional people, who may decide to take matters into their own hands, which can not be allowed!

[Ghost 88]

Just the guard capt./ jailkeeper:cool: With the shooting and large call on night guard. I've had to dragoon alot of poeple, although we realy need to set a rotation. I said nothing at first because my understanding was we would not be here this long. As it stands if we're to be here more than another day we need to resight the camp (not move but organize) so I can get by with less night guards,as is they would have trouble getting from one place to another

[Matt]

We can do it once we get to a permament settlement. Hell at that point a stone wall can be slowly made, maybe by Rangers returned from the field? MAybe someone brought engineer stakes and tape? We can rope off the permeter that way.

[Bulgaroktonos]

I, too, would agree to limited entry points, but to fence in would be 1500 yards of fence, mininum. More work than we can afford to do right now. Perhaps the old-fashioned peace-bond? A strip of colorful fabric used to mark that a weapon is in safe mode? Granted, it could be 'forged', but for right now, it is the best solution. Also, when at meetings of the group as a whole, have an area set up and GUARDED where any carried weapons are to be deposited. At the Trail, no one except for the prisoners guards will be armed, with a punishment for smuggling in a firearm. The Trial may well have some very emotional people, who may decide to take matters into their own hands, which can not be allowed!

Also, location might be smart. Some of us, myself included, have long range weapons. I'm not worried about the emotional people who will charge in with a Colt, I'm worried about the person who still has their emotions under control, and coldly decides to blast Romulus from 500 yard under tree cover....

[Psychomeltdown]

Unfortunately we're still have to go about armed. We are in a potentially hostile territory, not to mention bears and the like in the woods.

We need to keep our weapons on hand.

The events of today were possibly something that won't occur again. A man going crazy and whatnot, we can't account for that.

Therefore we must not disarm until we are sure that we are safe and secure. Then weapon laws can take effect. Until then, it's simply trust in your fellow neighbor.

[Ward]

Just for a thought should we post a link to this thread to chat and have all the members vote on the outcome trial .:eek:

But yes we need to a safe place for the trial .

[Ghost 88]

How do we get more people to work ?

What should we do about fire arms in camp ?

What about the rest of the herds ?

Ward getting more people to work is going to take us looking real hard at what we need doing right now.

As others have said not much we can at a temporary camp.

Sounds to me Psycho has a grip on it for now.

About Psycho's hunt idea it's basically a good idea but the way he had it drawn out isn't safe. If we do it the shooters need to be fireing at a 90 degree angle to the beaters. I would diagram it for you but didn't bring any paper. ( don't have the foggest idea how to do that on this mach.:o )

[Ward]

Ward getting more people to work is going to take us looking real hard at what we need doing right now.

As others have said not much we can at a temporary camp.

Sounds to me Psycho has a grip on it for now.

About Psycho's hunt idea it's basically a good idea but the way he had it drawn out isn't safe. If we do it the shooters need to be fireing at a 90 degree angle to the beaters. I would diagram it for you but didn't bring any paper. ( don't have the foggest idea how to do that on this mach.:o )



I think they should fire at a 90 % from them .

I know what you mean I have a hard time doing a lot of things on this machine.

[Othniel]

Grand Trek;

I've come to the conclusion that we need to save the labor for the main settlement. We'll need everyone healthly and treking we it comes time to go, meaning we should put the camp into more easily moving postion. Tell everyone that a true north overlay of the camp needs to be done. All Wagons, all tents and all people need to be orinatated towards the north.

We may have to just have the rangers scout out trails directly ahead of our camp. We'll need to know what formation is nessacary for our wagons to get through the terrain if it is rougher in some of these parts. Nor will this be easy, most Wagon Trains consisted of less than 150 people, thus we must be willing to leave in waves if it alleavates the stress on the main encampment. 30 to 50 Wagons are going to be organized into groups, Ward's leaving first, and whose ever is in the rear ending the trek. Every group leaves 30 mins before the one before it, starting at 4 AM. Millitia Calvary willl make sure stragglers make it there ok.

From there the logistics people can sort out who ends up in what areas when we get there. First priority when we get there is the full out clearing of the woods, with housing and the acualt farming becoming more important. Places where Community goods can be distrubited will have to be set up(the reason I'm not giving up my stuff right now is because I don't qant to have to find someone to get what I need and my breakfast, which I'll need for the trip.)

[Norbert]

Yes, moving in waves would be best, but we need the scouts report on our destination, and route to avoid hazards, be they natural or man.

I would like a team of woodcutters with each group, just in case we do not camp in the same location, but with the majority with the first group. That way, when the first group reaches our destination, work can begin cutting immediatly, at first for fuel, and then for construction materials. Someone mentioned building sod houses, which I agree would save on wood, but my concern with them is the amount of rain, and the level of the water table. Sod houses work well in relativly dryer climates, where the ground water is not very close to the surface, but in California, the bay region specifically, could we dig down even two feet without having water seeping into the hole?

Another reason to have the majority of the woodcutters with the first group is if we need to build rafts to cross a river safely.

The last point I will make, is by expanding the number of people who can safely cut down a tree without hurting someone by doing the preperation of the great hunt, increases the number of teams to travel with each group. The great hunt will also free up people in the long run for the clearing of the land at our destination, for we will have food to fall back on, and be able to stretch our meager supply of 'up-time' food for emergancies. The risk of someone getting hurt in the hunt is outweighed by the long term benefits, in my opinion.

[Matt]

Once Matt gets back, give him a couple of week's to organize his Rangers. It's a much larger distance then what he's doing now, so there needs to be more preperation. So maybe send the scouts out to Berkeley 10 days after his return.

[Othniel]

Once Matt gets back, give him a couple of week's to organize his Rangers. It's a much larger distance then what he's doing now, so there needs to be more preperation. So maybe send the scouts out to Berkeley 10 days after his return.
We don't have that long. A week or less is what we can spare. We need to be set up before we run out of food and every day is precious.

Send you ahead, find the next camp site, send someone back to tell us, you moving on when the first group gets there.

[Norbert]

I was digging, and reading a seed catalog, trying to figure the best planting times and care of plants. They have a great deal of information, including notes on growing zones, and typical times of the frosts in an given area.

San Francisco: First Frost: Jan 5 Last Frost: Jan 8th
Growing Season: 362 Days

(362 Days is NOT a typo)

[Othniel]

Still most people brought 45 days worth of food. How many days did you estimate the work of clearing the land would take Norbert?

[Hendryk]

I'm putting forward a request to the Council that Ian's Apartment be considered communal property and converted to a storage place until we have a warehouse or other such structure (see my latest post in Chat). Leaving our supplies in the open is IMO asking for trouble.

[Othniel]

I give the same rebuttal, as to preparedness to relocate and practicallity of distrubtion, as well as labour distribution.

[Norbert]

Still most people brought 45 days worth of food. How many days did you estimate the work of clearing the land would take Norbert?

Ok, if I have 150 cutters and another 650 clearers, figure 10 acres per day starting with the end of the second day. After that, figure that same 10 acres could be plowed and harrowed by 20 teams in another day. My estimate would be using 820 laborers we can have 10 acres ready for planting each day from the fourth day on. Remember, this is the labor intesive part, but these numbers should work for planning.

[pisces74]

How do we get more people to work ?

Form press gangs, or start a marketplace, those with items to trade will get items thus stimulating work, but all resources now need to be utilized on the drive north.

What should we do about fire arms in camp ?

Nothing, one incident should not a prcident make, furthermore enforcement of that law will force otherwise good workers out of the fields.

What about the rest of the herds ? Drive them north ASAP, with as many people as able, when the priority food source moves the lallygaggers will find it easier to motivate themselves to follow the herd. As stated before the drive north should be the biggest priority, if we don't get to better lands we risk starvation. anything that can't be easily carried needs to be left behind under guard, but as much people and resources as possible needs to move north towards the bay area to access the food of the bay.

[Glen]

How do we get more people to work ?

People are getting to work, we're just not writing about it.

AFAIK, day one we had a lot of crazy scrambling, but by dusk had gotten the ISOTed people into a rough, roman layout style, camp, with a quasigrid of lanes for walking and wagons, a separate area for animals, and a central square for everyone to gather.

We all mostly met there (I assure you, I for one was spreading the word to do so at nightfall, and had some people get firewood for a bonfire. I have alluded to this in my previous posts and comments).

There we decided on rough rules of living (I advocated Bill of Rights and common law/sense), council size and composition, and elected people into those offices (most by popular aclaim, some by vote). The chairman/chief executive discussion was the lengthiest. BTW, since I seemed to be the one pushing for this meeting, and with experience to do it and the initiative, I was probably serving in capacity of meeting chair for at least this first gathering, regardless of what we might have decided for the rest of the night (unless someone disagrees with this interpretation of likely events). Sorry, I was hoping to play this out more, but r/l got busy and people posted ahead on events. Also agreed to a general inventory and census, which we assigned to someone to head up.

By day two, the council members with their nuclei of staff (volunteers), were going around recruiting people for the myriad tasks ahead. Probably a general call for people to come the next morning to the square and identify themselves to help. Most people, at least the first few days, will be anxious for some direction to work towards, and will have responded. So we have for the first couple days, several undefined groups under the general council leaders of the first night setting about the many jobs needed.

What should we do about fire arms in camp ?

Have our more gun savvy organize a firearms safety and training practice session, probably incorporated into general militia training. We won't have a lot of time at first for this, but we need to find as much as possible.

I don't think some form of gun control is the answer, despite the tragic events of the third day. I also think it is against the spirit of the second amendment (we need to keep and bear arms, and form a well regulated militia of the entire community).

What about the rest of the herds ? We need to mark them as the property of individuals in some way, and get them corralled. Did you bring any wire, Ward? Having one holding area will cut down the manpower needed to control them. Once we have our own places and time for barns it will be different.

[Psychomeltdown]

Ok, if I have 150 cutters and another 650 clearers, figure 10 acres per day starting with the end of the second day. After that, figure that same 10 acres could be plowed and harrowed by 20 teams in another day. My estimate would be using 820 laborers we can have 10 acres ready for planting each day from the fourth day on. Remember, this is the labor intesive part, but these numbers should work for planning.
We'll probably be needing about 450 acres to feed the Entire community fo a year. That's if we're planting the staple crops of corn, potatoes, and wheat. Then there are the side crops, gardens, and other plant fields, so roughly about 500 acres in the beginning.

We also need to know how many seeds we've brought... I've brought about 130 lbs of seeds and plant cuttings (hopefully Ward and Co. are taking care of those..), but what else did everyone else bring?

a rough estimate is about 20 lbs of seeds for an acre?

[Norbert]

We'll probably be needing about 450 acres to feed the Entire community fo a year. That's if we're planting the staple crops of corn, potatoes, and wheat. Then there are the side crops, gardens, and other plant fields, so roughly about 500 acres in the beginning.

We also need to know how many seeds we've brought... I've brought about 130 lbs of seeds and plant cuttings (hopefully Ward and Co. are taking care of those..), but what else did everyone else bring?

a rough estimate is about 20 lbs of seeds for an acre?

For Grains, such as Wheat, Barley, Rye, and Oats, I have been basing my figures at 4 bushels to plant 1 acre. Thats using the following weights: Wheat 50 lbs/bushel; Rye 45 lbs/bushel; Oats 25 lbs/bushel; Barley 40 lbs/bushel; Dry Beans 40 lbs/bushel; and Peas 40 lbs/bushel.

I brought 1 bushel each of Wheat and Oats, and 1/2 Bushel of Barley, Rye, Beans, and Peas.
I also brought 20 lbs each of Seed potatoes, Seed Onions, and Peanuts.

More information on planting methods, and how to plant crops can be found here:

http://www.irish-eyes.com/growers/index.php?growerchoice=9&site=ir&Store_Session=001915071220056922123424&B1=Go#DRY%20BEANS

I may be working primarily in the Woodcuttig field, but I have other areas of knowledge too.

By the way, I will re-iterate what I put up earlier: The Growing Season in the Bay Area is 362 days per year. It is quite likely we will get two crops of some things, and maybe three or four crops of some of the faster producing vegetables.
The site I listed above did state that potatoes should not be planted in the same field more than one year/crop in three years, to help prevent diseased plants in later plantings.

[Psychomeltdown]

so roughly a person brings about 50 lbs of farm seeds, 25 lbs of Garden Seeds, 25 lbs of various others...

We'll need about 200 lbs to plant 1 acre... 100 lbs of seeds, 600 indiviuals (board members going North)

30000 lbs of Farm Seeds
15000 lbs of Garden Seeds
15000 lbs of Various (doesn't count to food)

150 acres of Staple crops
75 acres of Veggies
75 acres of Various (doesn't count to food)

That's barely 225 acres!!! :eek:

I guess we'll have to push up on the meat gathering enterprises.

I suggest we only consume one third of harvested crops and immediately replant the rest, expanding out fields as we go.

[Norbert]

For the grains, we could expect a return of roughly 20 to 1, depending on factors such as the quality of the land (Very Good), and Weather (much more random). With improvements on storage, we will have less and less shrinkage (loss of grain due to insects, rodents, and general spoilage) each year. 200 lbs of grain should net us 4000 lbs at the end of the harvest. We should be able to get away with a summer crop, and a witer crop of grain each year. So that 1 acre of wheat should net us about 7000 lbs after using 200 lbs for the second crop, and saving an additional 800 lbs per acre for the next years planting.

[Psychomeltdown]

cool. Though things might be tough for the first year.

If we plant about 150 acres of staple crops and manage to harvest it all, i suggest we take at least 1/3 of the planted acres of crops to become seeds for the next crop.

that should at least give us a good 1200 acres of fields. Enough to feed the Community for over a year, if we're lucky.

But that's still a rough first year.

We'll only have about 2.5 - 3 months of food from the first harvest...

[Othniel]

Grand Trek;

I've come to the conclusion that we need to save the labor for the main settlement. We'll need everyone healthly and treking we it comes time to go, meaning we should put the camp into more easily moving postion. Tell everyone that a true north overlay of the camp needs to be done. All Wagons, all tents and all people need to be orinatated towards the north.

We may have to just have the rangers scout out trails directly ahead of our camp. We'll need to know what formation is nessacary for our wagons to get through the terrain if it is rougher in some of these parts. Nor will this be easy, most Wagon Trains consisted of less than 150 people, thus we must be willing to leave in waves if it alleavates the stress on the main encampment. 30 to 50 Wagons are going to be organized into groups, Ward's leaving first, and whose ever is in the rear ending the trek. Every group leaves 30 mins before the one before it, starting at 4 AM. Millitia Calvary willl make sure stragglers make it there ok.

From there the logistics people can sort out who ends up in what areas when we get there. First priority when we get there is the full out clearing of the woods, with housing and the acualt farming becoming more important. Places where Community goods can be distrubited will have to be set up(the reason I'm not giving up my stuff right now is because I don't qant to have to find someone to get what I need and my breakfast, which I'll need for the trip.)
Found it. and read Norbert's reply.