(ALT) What to do about the shooting

[Ward]

so what are the toughts about the shooting .

Should We Trail him for murder .

With 14 good men and women and a judge .

We will need a shister for both sides .

[GBW]

Yeah, I agree that we'll need a trial for precedent purposes with a judge and jury. Or perhaps someone can come up with an alternative form of trial that doesn't need lawyers...? ;)

[Psychomeltdown]

Yeah, I agree that we'll need a trial for precedent purposes with a judge and jury. Or perhaps someone can come up with an alternative form of trial that doesn't need lawyers...? ;)
unfortunately we'll probably need lawyers.

Though finding an unbiased jury will be harder than hell.

[GBW]

unfortunately we'll probably need lawyers.

Though finding an unbiased jury will be harder than hell.
Perhaps we'd have to wait until the scouts come back, and maybe some lumberjacks and herders who weren't in the encampment...

[Soyuz]

Just from a gaming standpoint, we'll need a lot of active people:

- 1 judge
- at least 10 in jury
- at least 2 lawyers
- several witnesses
- 1 to play Rommy?

At least 14 people. Maybe we can stretch this and have 1 real live person represent 2-4 in the jury.

[Doctor What]

Imprisonment is not an option --building a cell and watching over him and keeping him fed and so forth is too much of a drain on our resources.

Forced labor is not an option--same reasons.

Death or Banishment only options.

I'm uncomfortable with killing him but there are others who will have no such qualms.

Banishment--tie him up, bring him out to the edge of the forest, give him just one knife and a canteen, tell him to keep moving east. If he ever shows his face anywhere near us...

[Matt]

make him dig the graves.

[GBW]

Btw, a thought about punishment. We're building civilization here and we really need all the hands we can get. Perhaps we sentence him to hard labor for the forseeable future? Perhaps hearings every so often for parole and that kind of thing?

Or perhaps we can think up an 'ISOT Inagua' type scenario? Send him somewhere where he can't hope to escape yet remain productive at the same time?

[Ghost 88]

Unfortunatly in this small of a community we wont be able to find a jury that knows nothing about what went on. Finding one that is impartiale maybe.

[Matt]

Unfortunatly in this small of a community we wont be able to find a jury that knows nothing about what went on. Finding one that is impartiale maybe.


We have 6 Rangers out of town right now; and I'm sure there were sheppards in the fields etc... etcc..

[Ward]

I think he need to be tried by 14 good men and women before a judge and then taken out and castrated and exiled . Given his gun and sent away , and told if he retunes we will shot him.

[Ghost 88]

Should I slap a gag order on everyone who would come in contact with these two groups?:D

[Norbert]

While I am aware of the events, I am also neutral in them. I am willing to volunteer for something in this. The punishment should be based upon the recommendation of the jury, and enforced by the judge.

[Norbert]

Should I slap a gag order on everyone who would come in contact with these two groups?:D

Yes, a gag order will be necessary until the trial.

[Doctor What]

I think he need to be tried by 14 good men and women before a judge and then taken out and castrated and exiled . Given his gun and sent away , and told if he retunes we will shot him.

Agree with everything except the gun--we need that more than he does. Fuck him--give him a knife and tell him to learn to make spears like the natives.

[Ward]

Agree with everything except the gun--we need that more than he does. Fuck him--give him a knife and tell him to learn to make spears like the natives.


When I said his gun I was talking about the old army term Gun

This is my Gun this ones for fun this is my weapon this one for shooting .

He can have it I don't want it :eek:

[GBW]

Agree with everything except the gun--we need that more than he does. Fuck him--give him a knife and tell him to learn to make spears like the natives.
I agree, but hesitate over the knife. We'll probably need even a steel knife more than he does.

[Forum Lurker]

I would suggest the following:

Judge and jury should all be non-members; board members will be biased, but all non-members will know is that there was a shooting and this guy is accused.

Under no circumstances should a conviction carry any sentence other than death. If the charges were not murder, a lesser sentence of labor might be possible; in this case, if convicted, he's been proven to be capable of killing people without good reason, and so is our very worst threat.

[Matt]

I agree, but hesitate over the knife. We'll probably need even a steel knife more than he does.


Give him the 5-7. The ammo is useless to us anyways. Let us keep the knife. See what good that pistol does when he needs to shoot game with it.

That's if we exile him. Hang him if we execute. We can reuse rope. But not bullets.

[Psychomeltdown]

in a labor starved environment he's done one of the worst things possible, he's killed a potential worker, hospitalized several more, and also killed a child.

I suggest death.

Quick simple and with no lasting consequences for the group as a whole.

[Bulgaroktonos]

I think we can find an impartial jury. I was not a witness, as I am attempting to find some people to start collecting snakes for anti-venin, as that, in my opinion might be our greatest non-human threat. Therefore, I can only go on hearsay. I'm more than willing to do any job you want.

As to the Judges, I think that this should be our opportunity to actually appoint our judges on their temporary basis, before we move to appoint them for life.

Thus, I propose panel of at least 3 judges and jury.

[Straha]

A public and painful method of execution(torture?). This would serve as a good deterrent to future would be killers.

[Psychomeltdown]

A public and painful method of execution(torture?). This would serve as a good deterrent to future would be killers.
I guess we're looking for precedent here.

though I agree with Straha in the killing and making it painful department, I think we still have to put him on trial. For sake of future generations, to set precedent. etc.

[Forum Lurker]

I don't really want to set the precedent for brutal execution, but neither am I comfortable with the waste of resources that a bullet represents, or the need for skill in execution that hanging requires (to do it properly, without a slow gasping death, is harder than Hollywood would have you believe). Did anyone bring a maul, for splitting trees?

[Ward]

I don't really want to set the precedent for brutal execution, but neither am I comfortable with the waste of resources that a bullet represents, or the need for skill in execution that hanging requires (to do it properly, without a slow gasping death, is harder than Hollywood would have you believe). Did anyone bring a maul, for splitting trees?


Yes Norbert did .

[Darkest]

Let's feast upon his flesh! Then he will be useful!

On a more serious note:

Imprison him, don't feed him much, kick him once and a while. Make him dig the graves and do manual labor.

On a rainy day, blindfold him, get four hunters to go deep into the woods on a deep excursion (15-40 miles), killing animals for meat along the way, with Rommy in tow, give him a canteen of water and a knife, and then leave him there. Rain will wash away the hunter's tracks, and he will be unable to find his way back to camp.

I'd be interested in roleplaying Romulus Augustus, I like this character, and I think I could get him to do cool stuff.



blindfold him, get four hunters to go deep into the woods with him in tow, give him a canteen of water and a knife, and then leave him there.

[Forum Lurker]

I really, really don't like the idea of letting a convicted murderer walk free. If nothing else, he's liable to give the natives a bad impression of us palefaces.

[Norbert]

Tie some rocks to his feet, and throw him in the ocean. Saves a bullet, he doesn't walk free.

[Darkest]

People will rebel against an execution, it will put a dark mark on our group. However, if we have the lynchers take care of him for us, it will make them feel guilty later, but it won't do any damage to the order we have.

Maybe we should have the father of the little girl plant an explosive by his cell while he is imprisoned, during the night.

[Forum Lurker]

No. If he's killed by someone not authorized to do so by the community, then it's our responsibility to find and punish them. We can't get a moral dodge here by pretending it's the actions of an individual. If he's guilty, he dies, and by all our hands; any other punishment is a threat to the community, as is attempting to evade responsibility for punishing crimes that we all agree should be punished.

[Ward]

We need the Trial or should the councal rule on this .

If it is up to me he would have his manhood removed and then a hot iron put on the wound thats for the attemted rape , Then we should hang him from a tree untill he is dead . Then we burn his body and cursh his name .

[Doctor What]

Tieing him to stakes in the middle of the woods and leaving him there for the critters?

[Forum Lurker]

I'd advise against torture; it leads bad places. Also, the "leave them for the animals" bit doesn't always work, nor does it provide certainty; if we kill someone, I want to see a corpse that couldn't be revived by even full OTL tech. The three-step rule is a good one: the head should be three steps or more from the body.

[Hendryk]

I say a lifetime of hard labor. We've already lost two able pairs of hands and may yet lose others if the wounded don't survive; to make up for it, the culprit should be indentured to the community as an unpaid worker.
Plus I have a big ethical problem with capital punishment, though I clearly seem in the minority so far on that one.

[pisces74]

As I see it one of three things happened.

Rommy had a psychotic episode and killed his clonemate over of a show of disobeidience.

Rommy had a psychotic episode do to the ASBs forced co-dependence on the clonemates ( I find this very likely)

Rommys clone agitated an episode which caused Rommy to lose grip on reality and run amok. (perhaps she liked sex so much she was giving it away)


In all three scenarios Rommy is a mad dog killer and needs to be hanged. Banishment is not an option because he knows enough future tech and tactics to turn some scalphunters into likely our equals.

[Othniel]

Tie some rocks to his feet, and throw him in the ocean. Saves a bullet, he doesn't walk free.
Death of a child, I thiink the punishment was tieing a millstone around their neck and casting them into the sea. However a boulder will have to do as we need the millstone. No Grave, no bullet. Unfortunately rope is one of the things we need a lot of but it can be easily replaced.

Either that or we tie him up behind a wagon and waste people to watch him, and decide where we can trust him to be..

If it were anything other than the death of a child I think we could be more merciful and make him dig latrines.

[Flocculencio]

I say a lifetime of hard labor. We've already lost two able pairs of hands and may yet lose others if the wounded don't survive; to make up for it, the culprit should be indentured to the community as an unpaid worker.
Plus I have a big ethical problem with capital punishment, though I clearly seem in the minority so far on that one.

I'm with you. I don't like the idea of capital punishment.

And I like the idea of torture even less.

If we have to kill him let's make it clean, people. None of this nonsense about branding and castration. :mad: Surely someone brought an axe?

I'm willing to act as counsel for the defence if necessary.

[Norbert]

No Torture. Quick Kill. No Axe (Usually a slow kill). Give him a straight razor and put him in Hot Water. It is actually painless, though slower. Just gradually drift off and not wake up again. You just have to cut properly.

Am I really thinking of a Ritual Suicide?

[Othniel]

I'm with you. I don't like the idea of capital punishment.

And I like the idea of torture even less.

If we have to kill him let's make it clean, people. None of this nonsense about branding and castration. :mad: Surely someone brought an axe?
Not an excutioner's axe.(no way would I want to be the one prepared for this) To be perfectly fair breaking his neck would probably do it best. Though I'd prefer he'd join Davy Jones.

To tell truth we really do only have two options. We either bring him with us, not able to trust him not to go crazy again, or we can excute him. Given the circumstances it wastes people to watch him, and we can't have him labour among us.

We could let him work as a prison slave under the father of the little girl, I think. That would do some justice.

[Flocculencio]

We could let him work as a prison slave under the father of the little girl, I think. That would do some justice.

No, that just sets up a precedent for individual slavery and gives a dangerous opportunity for personal vengeance.

If he works as a slave he works under the ultimate custodianship of WeaponM (in his capacity of Councillor for Defence and Law) on projects determined by councillors on the basis of whichever project happens to need extra manpower the most on a particular week.

[Othniel]

No, that just sets up a precedent for individual slavery and gives a dangerous opportunity for personal vengeance.

If he works as a slave he works under the ultimate custodianship of WeaponM (in his capacity of Councillor for Defence and Law) on projects determined by councillors on the basis of whichever project happens to need extra manpower the most on a particular week.
I suggested that in the goverment thread and got jumped all over for suggesting work could be used as punishment. :rolleyes: That it discourages the population from taking from doing the work.:rolleyes:

[Matt]

I say a lifetime of hard labor. We've already lost two able pairs of hands and may yet lose others if the wounded don't survive; to make up for it, the culprit should be indentured to the community as an unpaid worker.
Plus I have a big ethical problem with capital punishment, though I clearly seem in the minority so far on that one.


We don't have to like it, but the least dangerious precedent is to execute him. Establishing a system of indentured servitude doesn't ring well in my book, and torture... well torture is just wrong. I don't want a man with a grudge against us running around, no matter how little his chances of survival are.

[GBW]

We're going to the San Francisco Bay, right? Why not just set him on Alcatraz with the pelicans? There wouldn't be any lumber to make a boat, I don't think, and he couldn't swim it.

[Othniel]

We're going to the San Francisco Bay, right? Why not just set him on Alcatraz with the pelicans? There wouldn't be any lumber to make a boat, I don't think, and he couldn't swim it.
Three Words:

Shark Infested Waters

[GBW]

Three Words:

Shark Infested Waters
Well, that just makes it more secure, now doesn't it? :D

[Othniel]

Well, that just makes it more secure, now doesn't it? :D
I'm not rowing in that!

[Hendryk]

Let's keep in mind that the decisions we take now will have long-lasting consequences. As others have observed, we're creating precedent. Should our settlement meet with long-term success, our descendants will go back to our decisions for reference and inspiration. So how do we want to go down in history? I'd rather have to explain to my grandchildren that I was overly merciful, than having to justify to them my condoning of the execution of a human being. I don't like to think what I'll see in their eyes when I tell them that.
Killing on the battlefield or in self-defense is one thing--heck, I certainly won't dispute that what IY did when she took Rom down was the right thing to do--but to deliberately call for snuffing out a human life, well, I have a problem with that.
If, after due process, the penalty that's decided on is death, I'll respect the decision as legitimate and won't stop its being enforced. But I won't live comfortably with it.

[Othniel]

Let's keep in mind that the decisions we take now will have long-lasting consequences. As others have observed, we're creating precedent. Should our settlement meet with long-term success, our descendants will go back to our decisions for reference and inspiration. So how do we want to go down in history? I'd rather have to explain to my grandchildren that I was overly merciful, than having to justify to them my condoning of the execution of a human being. I don't like to think what I'll see in their eyes when I tell them that.
Killing on the battlefield or in self-defense is one thing--heck, I certainly won't dispute that what IY did when she took Rom down was the right thing to do--but to deliberately call for snuffing out a human life, well, I have a problem with that.
If, after due process, the penalty that's decided on is death, I'll respect the decision as legitimate and won't stop its being enforced. But I won't live comfortably with it.So you brather have us cut off his hands?

[Flocculencio]

So you brather have us cut off his hands?

That's unfair. I believe that Hendryk has already spoken out against mutilation.

I stand with him. I remained opposed to execution but if such punishment is decided upon by a judge and jury I will respect the decision. I would just like to take a stand on one issue: castration and mutilation are barbaric. They're things that civilised people may talk of in the heat of the moment but if he has to be executed let it be done in cold blood, cleanly. If the pentaly is death, then put a bullet in the back of his head- people are talking about not wasting ammunition but one bullet out of all we've got won't be much and besides it's not as if we're going to be executing people on a regular basis.

Once again I'd like to offer to stand as counsel for the defence once the Rangers get back (which should be sometime during Day 4).

[Ward]

I'm sorry but I think we have to take a hard stand on attemted rape and also murder . If we don't we are going to have some of the young girls raped by someone . If we show that we will not stand for it and if it happens and the penity is high we will have less change it will happen again .

As for murder we don't want it to happen again yes it will happen again we need to show that it is fatal to muder some one .

We are in a surrval mold right now and we can not have people steeling and murdering ther neigbors .
I belive that we are going to have to go back to corpral punishment for some things . This will be more fair in the long run . I would rather see some one who steals get a lashing for theift than have them locked up . or have his hand taken off. For it will state he has paid they fine to the community and it done with .
We also will need a set of laws real soon about marage , divorce , stealing ,murder and rape . and land owner ship .
Also what do we have to wear in camp and the town . For cothing is going to go farly fast . Since we are going to having kids out grow clothing soon and a lot of are clothing is going to wear out soon .

[Flocculencio]

I'm sorry but I think we have to take a hard stand on attemted rape and also murder . If we don't we are going to have some of the young girls raped by someone . If we show that we will not stand for it and if it happens and the penity is high we will have less change it will happen again.

OK- good then state that the penalty for rape is the same as the penalty for murder and execute him if you must. He won't be any less dead if you castrate him first.

As for other penalties, flogging someone is fine. They're down in sickbay for a few days and then they're able to work again. Chopping off hands simply means that we have one more less able person unable to do work that he otherwise could have done. It's counterproductive.

Also, has anyone ever considered that we don't know just what happened inside the tent? Sure the murder is definite- there were many witnesses. But rape? It looks like that but is that the case? We know that Romulus' NPC persona is unstable- it could have been anything. There might have been an argument, things get out of hand and he snaps.

If I am allowed to defend Romulus be warned that these are things that I'll be bringing up. So far there is little evidence for rape and I'll want to hear a post-mortem statement from Glen Finney.

You can kill him or mutilate him if you must but I'm going to do my best to make sure the case is properly heard.

[GBW]

Let's keep in mind that it looks like we're going to have a member of that tribe viewing these proceedings as well...

[Ward]

OK- good then state that the penalty for rape is the same as the penalty for murder and execute him if you must. He won't be any less dead if you castrate him first.

As for other penalties, flogging someone is fine. They're down in sickbay for a few days and then they're able to work again. Chopping off hands simply means that we have one more less able person unable to do work that he otherwise could have done. It's counterproductive.



I belive Dr Glen could remove there nuts and manhood with out them dieing .

As for the penalty for muder I belive it should be a slow painfull death .

[Othniel]

I belive Dr Glen could remove there nuts and manhood with out them dieing .

As for the penalty for muder I belive it should be a slow painfull death .
Ward, lets not be cruel.

[Flocculencio]

So, are there any objections to me serving as defence counsel?

[Forum Lurker]

No objection here.

It's looking like we're going to need a poll. I'd suggest we do it as follows:
We vote between execution, banishment, and forced labor. Winner of that poll goes on to a second poll, which is means: if execution, whether by bullet, rope, razor or maul; if banishment, whether on an island or in the woods.

[Ward]

Ward, lets not be cruel.


If harsh penitys will stop crime for now It will mean less crime in the Future .


IS not taking a manhood better than killing him . Or exiling them which for most of us would mean death .

And hanging is a slow death and painfull death .

As for flogging someone it over with and they have paid for there crime after its done . And with in a few days they will be able to go back to work .

I can not see were putting some one in jail helps at all . Ir means we the community has to support them and there family as long as they are in jail .

I also can see other crimes were people are forced to do extra work of hrs to the community for there crimes . Like getting Drunk and waking there niebors in the middle of the night.


Rember I'm thinking as a Father and Grandfather of daughters .

I do not want a rapies to pray on them . Plus I'm not talking about conctual sex between to adults .

Rember ther is not much birth contral here and I don't want to see a poor girl who has been raped forced to have a child and if hash laws are out there
it will stop it from happing . Rember we are going to lose women in child birth as it is let a lone from a little girl having a child befor she is fully develped .

[GBW]

You also have to think about if everyone is going to support certain punishments. If too many find the punishments too severe, they just might decide to form groups and head off on their own.

[Ward]

You also have to think about if everyone is going to support certain punishments. If too many find the punishments too severe, they just might decide to form groups and head off on their own.


rember these are my views on laws .
I will go with what the majority of the people vote for.


Plus I belive no one is above the law .

[Flocculencio]

No objection here.

It's looking like we're going to need a poll. I'd suggest we do it as follows:
We vote between execution, banishment, and forced labor. Winner of that poll goes on to a second poll, which is means: if execution, whether by bullet, rope, razor or maul; if banishment, whether on an island or in the woods.

The poll is a good idea.

However, I suggest that a "Trial of Romulus" Thread first be set up. Defence and Prosecution give their statements here along with reports from witnesses and Doc Finney and whoever gets appointed Judge sums it up.

Then we have a poll thread for the verdict. Remember we have two charges being brought against him so I'd suggest the following four options

Proven guilty of X counts of Murder, Not proven guilty of Rape
Guilty on both counts
Not guilty on both counts

Then we can take it to a second poll if necessary to decide the actual procedure of the punishment.

[Ward]

The poll is a good idea.

However, I suggest that a "Trial of Romulus" Thread first be set up. Defence and Prosecution give their statements here along with reports from witnesses and Doc Finney and whoever gets appointed Judge sums it up.

Then we have a poll thread for the verdict. Remember we have two charges being brought against him so I'd suggest the following four options

Proven guilty of X counts of Murder, Not proven guilty of Rape
Guilty on both counts
Not guilty on both counts

Then we can take it to a second poll if necessary to decide the actual procedure of the punishment.


some one go ahead and post this for us please.

[Dave Howery]

Holy sh.... guys, even if this tragic situation, we don't want to resort to anything barbaric... no mutilation, no torture. Our choices are really only execution or life at hard labor. I prefer the latter for now, just because we need the labor. We should put it in our code of law to allow for execution later, when we have the labor to spare. At this point, we don't. Put him in a lifetime of digging ditches/latrines/graves, etc....

[Flocculencio]

Trial thread has been posted. I suggest that we keep it semi-independent of the actual chronology of the RPG- since the rangers are still out and various other people are at various places perhaps we can assume it takes place a day or two after the hunt with as many people gathered to witness as possible.

I'm acting as counsel for the defence unless anyone has any objections. Just to keep it coherent I'd like people to nominate jury members, judge and counsel for the prosecution in this thread.

I'm reposting here the information I've posted in the Trial Thread. This is so that people can hash out any inaccuracies or nominations in this thread and I can alter the charges and nominations to keep the actual Trial Thread neat:

The Board vs. Romulus Augustus

The charges AFAIK are as follows

1 count of attempted rape

3(?) counts of murder

(?) counts of attempted murder

Any discussion on and nominations for positions for Judge, Jury and Counsel for Prosecution should be handled on the "What to do about the shooting" thread.

I will set up a seperate poll for votes on the verdict after the defence and prosecution have made their cases, witnesses have been called and the jude has conducted his summing up.

Judge: <Nomination needed>

Jury: <Nominations needed>

Counsel for the Prosecution: <Nomination needed>

Counsel for the Defence: Flocculencio <if there are any other nominations for this please feel free>

Any actual witnesses to the incident will be ineligible for any of the above positions.

Glen Finney will be ineligible for any of the above positions as we'll need him to provide medical testimony.

Ideally, I'd also like the rest of the Rangers to act as bailiffs for the court to provide security in case anyone tries to take matters into their own hands.

[Othniel]

I was a baliff in mock trail, Floc. (even have a certifficate saying so...) I'lll do the loud speaking part it you guys want to play the part of the martials..

[Flocculencio]

OK so we've got Othniel as a bailiff (along with presumably MBarr, Sion and two NPC rangers). That'll be pretty good.

Prosecution, Judge, Jury?

[GBW]

I say hard labor until we get to the Bay, then put him on Alcatraz to labor there. I don't think farming would work well... quarrying or fishing?

[Flocculencio]

I say hard labor until we get to the Bay, then put him on Alcatraz to labor there. I don't think farming would work well... quarrying or fishing?

Fair enough- we can debate the actual verdict after the trial :D

Actually I figure we don't need to nominate the jury- we just need 12 NPCs and everyone can vote on the poll after the prosecution, defence and judge make their statements.

So we just need a prosecutor and a judge

[GBW]

Btw, I'm poised to join the Rangers once MBarry makes the announcement when the scouts return. Besides that, I only heard the shots and helped bring one of the wounded to Glen Finney's tent; don't think that would make me much of a witness. Perhaps I'd be a bailiff as well.

[Othniel]

Ok, parts to fill;

Charcter Witnesses on Rommulus' behalf.
Clerk
Witnesses of the Shooting
etc.

[Flocculencio]

Hendryk was a witness but he's away for the weekend. However, I guess we can use his post on the shooting as his testimony.

The clerk can be an NPC so that shouldn't be a problem.

[pisces74]

I nominate Sionewig as prosecuter.

And Weapon M as judge.

Glen as defense if he'll take it. Medical expertise is kind of superfluous atm. all it obvious what killed the dead, we were cured of all diseases and genetic defects.

[Othniel]

Hendryk was a witness but he's away for the weekend. However, I guess we can use his post on the shooting as his testimony.

The clerk can be an NPC so that shouldn't be a problem.
So the charcter witness is a problem?

[Flocculencio]

Glen as defense if he'll take it. Medical expertise is kind of superfluous atm. all it obvious what killed the dead, we were cured of all diseases and genetic defects.

I was thinking more of medical judgement about the attempted rape charge.

WeaponM sounds alright for a judge- any other nominations?

I think WeaponM is a bad choice. Not because he is unqualified, but he is our minister of defense, and I think we should be using this opportunity to set up our judiciary, and we should not allow Judges to hold any other position during their tenure.

[Othniel]

I was thinking more of medical judgement about the attempted rape charge.

WeaponM sounds alright for a judge- any other nominations?
Can I throw in a charge for disrupting the peace and reakless endangerment?

[Flocculencio]

Can I throw in a charge for disrupting the peace and reakless endangerment?

I don't see why not.

[Othniel]

I don't see why not.
Will the defense seek a plea on those charges?:p

[Flocculencio]

Will the defense seek a plea on those charges?:p

You'll have to wait for the trial to see that, won't you :D

[DuQuense]

Groups like yours usally Outlawed the offender, and banished them. as a outlaw, what ever you do to him them is outside the law. so if he comes back you shoot him as/like a mad dog.

[Othniel]

You'll have to wait for the trial to see that, won't you :D
You know I just thought of something. Why doesn't the community strip him of all his possesions as the punishment, if he is guilty? Symbolicly it is showing him to be made destute for his crimes. He'll get all the food he needs as long as he works and always be under careful watch anyways. It seems more adquet then killing him off.

But I'll have to wait until after the trial for that one.

[jolo]

I'd be careful - even some kids run around with guns. Everyone has a few of them. It's easy to get one, if the murderer wants to kill again. I'd use shackled slave labour in such cases - with certain quotas to fulfill to get food and drink.

[Norbert]

I was thinking more of medical judgement about the attempted rape charge.

WeaponM sounds alright for a judge- any other nominations?


I Strongly disagree with Weapon M as Judge. My reason is we need to keep our legal system seperate from the military.

[Bulgaroktonos]

I just wrote something on that, but it disappeared. And I whole heartedly agree. I nominate anybody but those ineligible and members of the council.

[Othniel]

Kay, I nominate Steffen.

[Flocculencio]

I Strongly disagree with Weapon M as Judge. My reason is we need to keep our legal system seperate from the military.

My reasoning is that WeaponM isn't a member of our professional military/police system (i.e. the Rangers) but is rather an overseer of both the Rangers and the civilian militia. Therefore, as a councillor responsible for the administration of justice, it might be good for him to act as judge. In this way, we reinforce the submission of the Rangers and the militia to the principle of the Law.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Eh, I think a separate judiciary is better, in which the judge and police are wrapped up into one.

If the police are doing something we don't like, we can't very well appeal to the man that made the policy.

We need judges that are separate from the enforcers.

[Norbert]

My reasoning is that WeaponM isn't a member of our professional military/police system (i.e. the Rangers) but is rather an overseer of both the Rangers and the civilian militia. Therefore, as a councillor responsible for the administration of justice, it might be good for him to act as judge. In this way, we reinforce the submission of the Rangers and the militia to the principle of the Law.

I disagree. As overseer of the militia/rangers, it becomes military justice, and that is something we should avoid with the civilian population. If, on the other hand, the trial were to involve a 'Peacekeeper' or Ranger, then a joint trial with Weapon M as one of the judges would be fair, if the other judge were from the civilian side. Also, as leader of the Rangers and Militia, is he not a member of the Council? If not, he should be. And members of the Council should be disqualified for judges.

[Ward]

if this was real life I would say that my son Doug should be a jude he is a lawier and has worked in the procicuters office of his law firm . The have contracts with 10 small town and citys they act as the procuters for .

[GBW]

Maybe Steffen should be a choice then...? Or do we need someone less political?

[Bulgaroktonos]

I disagree. As overseer of the militia/rangers, it becomes military justice, and that is something we should avoid with the civilian population. If, on the other hand, the trial were to involve a 'Peacekeeper' or Ranger, then a joint trial with Weapon M as one of the judges would be fair, if the other judge were from the civilian side. Also, as leader of the Rangers and Militia, is he not a member of the Council? If not, he should be. And members of the Council should be disqualified for judges.

Norbert, your reasoning is so identical to mine on everything in this community that I nominate you for judge.

[Flocculencio]

Well, the Judge can be an NPC so long as someone writes up his summation comments. So we can go with Ward's son Doug. Or Norbert would be fine too.

[Norbert]

Norbert, your reasoning is so identical to mine on everything in this community that I nominate you for judge.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

But, after that for a first reaction, let us see what the others think. I do try to be neutral in most things involving others, and try to not step on others toes. Personally, sometimes I see myself kind of like an Omsbudman, trying to help others find a solution, and trying to represent those who do not speak up.

[Bulgaroktonos]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

But, after that for a first reaction, let us see what the others think. I do try to be neutral in most things involving others, and try to not step on others toes. Personally, sometimes I see myself kind of like an Omsbudman, trying to help others find a solution, and trying to represent those who do not speak up.

You aren't helping your case that you aren't just an older version of myself.

And why should having my keen rationale be worrying?:cool:

[jolo]

You got my vote with that great speach.

[Flocculencio]

Right so shall I tentatively edit Norbert in as Judge on the Trial Thread? :)

[Norbert]

Well, the Judge can be an NPC so long as someone writes up his summation comments. So we can go with Ward's son Doug. Or Norbert would be fine too.

Ward has told me that he would not write up anything for Doug, Doug's views are way to liberal for him.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Right so sahll I tentatively edit Norbert in as Judge on the Trial Thread? :)

If Jolo was voting for him then that's two for him.

[Flocculencio]

If Jolo was voting for him then that's two for him.

Well in light of the arguments against Weapon M I guess thats fair enough so I'll put him down for it. Plus Weapon M is an NPC (AFAIK) and it would be better to have a PC as judge although it's not essential.

Bulgar and Jolo: Would one of you care to be counsel for the Prosecution?

[luakel]

Woah, Rommy killed two people? :eek:

Well, it sounds like the Jury is going to be NPC, but if you change your mind I'd like to be a juror.

BTW, I probably won't be posting much in the "New Days" thread, so I guess you guys can just assume that me and my family are helping out Ward and his group in various tasks, so feel free to use me in any posts.

[Flocculencio]

Woah, Rommy killed two people? :eek:

Well, it sounds like the Jury is going to be NPC, but if you change your mind I'd like to be a juror

Well you can be if you want but since everyone except the court officials will be eligible to vote on the verdict there's not much point in having PC jurors.

[jolo]

I'm out of it - it should be someone who is tougher, so that the defense is even happy about a life sentence...

[Glen]

turn some scalphunters into likely our equals.

The French, I believe, started that quaint custom...though it caught on like wildfire...

[Flocculencio]

I'm out of it - it should be someone who is tougher, so that the defense is even happy about a life sentence...

Don't worry- the defence won't be happy with anything but acquittal on the charges that were pleaded not guilty :D I intend to fight this thing.

[Glen]

if this was real life I would say that my son Doug should be a jude he is a lawier and has worked in the procicuters office of his law firm . The have contracts with 10 small town and citys they act as the procuters for .

Yeah, he'd probably make a good choice.

[Norbert]

How about the Lawyers get the same sentence as their client?


Just kidding, that was in a book I read years ago called 'Infinity Hold', I wouldn't put anyone through that (Though it is fun to think about for the modern times!)

[Glen]

Ward has told me that he would not write up anything for Doug, Doug's views are way to liberal for him.

Shouldn't matter, AFAIK.

The jugde should, in this case, simply preside over the case, making certain that both sides get a fair hearing.

The jury will determine guilt or innocence, and set the penalty if convicted.

We have the Bill of Rights as our guiding principles, which means that we need to have no cruel or unusual punishment...even if the crime itself was cruel and unusual.

I'd say, if convicted, there should only be two sentences, life 'imprisonment' (we'll have to figure out some shackles; he'll still be required to work, of course) or death. While I can understand the qualms people have over the ultimate sanction (the worst of which is that it is irreversible in cases of mistaken justice), it is given our current conditions the most practical.

Torture and maiming, while tempting in our righteous rage (and don't think for one minute I don't feel the same), is too harmful to our society and ourselves to be indulged in, no matter how much we might feel the need to do otherwise.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Bulgar and Jolo: Would one of you care to be counsel for the Prosecution?

I'll be prosecution, since we need one. It seems to be a relatively open and shut case.

Two counts of murder in the 2nd Degree
1 Count of homicide
1 Count of negligent homicide (as I think only one count can be fully proven to be deliberate)

I'd need to hear more from witnesses to charge rape.

How many wounded? 3?

3 Counts of assault with a deadly weapon

and there will probably be a lot more....

[Flocculencio]

I'll be prosecution, since we need one. It seems to be a relatively open and shut case.

Two counts of murder in the 2nd Degree
1 Count of homicide
1 Count of negligent homicide (as I think only one count can be fully proven to be deliberate)

I'd need to hear more from witnesses to charge rape.

How many wounded? 3?

3 Counts of assault with a deadly weapon

and there will probably be a lot more....

OK. I've already make my opening statement as Counsel for the defence in the trial thread. If you would like to make yours?

[The_Leader]

Why dont u throw in

unlaw discharge of a weapon
intent to do bodily harm with a weapon