[ALT] What will you do?

[Glen]

What will you do when the ISOT comes and we are transported to the past?

What will you do...

Please note that the poll is confidential, so be honest...

[Matt]

What time well it be and what time of year?

[Nicksplace27]

I would probably head south with a few people and begin a new Settlement near LA. This would spread out our sphere of influence, and if we could harness railroads, keep in touch.

[Darkest]

Help with the main colony at first, of course, get the first crops up, insure my family's survival. Later, I will be the administrator of the communal electrical center of the colony and probably with the logistics people in organization. Later I would advocate the building of an LDS temple, and the building of a printing press to create books (include the Bible and the Books of Mormon, with my own additions).

But right now, I ask what is the relevancy of this post? This isn't helping us get to roleplaying faster. We need to focus on getting this started, people. Then we can act.

Also, its [ALT] as in 'A Little Trip...', not ATL. Might get confusing.

[Psychomeltdown]

For time I suggest mid Feb. Get us enough time to get to the settlement area and begin clearing the place in time for farming.

I'll also be looking to stop anyone from trying to expand their rule by using the labor and fear of the indigenous peoples..

I'm staying with the group, hopefully as a hunter and a herder.

[Glen]

Help with the main colony at first, of course, get the first crops up, insure my family's survival. Later, I will be the administrator of the communal electrical center of the colony and probably with the logistics people in organization. Later I would advocate the building of an LDS temple, and the building of a printing press to create books (include the Bible and the Books of Mormon, with my own additions).

But right now, I ask what is the relevancy of this post? This isn't helping us get to roleplaying faster. We need to focus on getting this started, people. Then we can act.

Also, its [ALT] as in 'A Little Trip...', not ATL. Might get confusing.

Ah, sorry about that!

The relavance is numbers. We need to get a guage of how many people are going to stay with the group, how many will set out, in how big of groups, and will we have conflict in the very beginning of the game.

This poll result will give us an idea of those numbers, which we can then extrapolate to the NPCs.

[Norbert]

I will stay, even though I do not like large crowds, I really do not like being totally alone!

[Bulgaroktonos]

I'd help with the colony for a long while. Eventually though, I think I'd set off on my own. Not to conquer, but to see.

[Othniel]

Main colony for a while then an offshot in ten to twenty years, abiding under the rules of the orginal (with a few changes).

While in the colony I offer my abode as a house church.:)

[SionEwig]

Stay initally, but even after leaving staying on good relations with the main colony.

[Darkest]

Oh, sorry about that Glen! I guess you edited your post with a poll, my bad.

Good idea, by the way. We definitely need stuff like this.

[Ward]

I will more than likely be staying in the main Group for more than likly I will be dead in 6 years at most . At that time I will be 64 years old . I will be an old man .

[Othniel]

As for other things:

My main goal is to push towards society capable of two things; Telegraphs, and indoor plumbing. Once those are achievched well my goals will be towards establizing outgrowths of the main community.

[Flocculencio]

I don't really have the American cultural desire to strike out as an individual so I'll probably stay with the main colony all the way. :D

[pisces74]

looking for the closest source of fresh water. taking the high ground setting tent. and starting gathering firewood.

screw the conquistadors.

[Darkest]

Hey, we got to get some more people to vote for staying with the colony. 21% are leaving with Shadestorm?!

You guys (conquistadors) do know that if you select the first option, you are following Shadestorm? The second option for conquistadors is to strike out on your own.

[Glen]

Hey, we got to get some more people to vote for staying with the colony. 21% are leaving with Shadestorm?!

You guys (conquistadors) do know that if you select the first option, you are following Shadestorm? The second option for conquistadors is to strike out on your own.

Yeah, the first option means you are joining Shadestorm probably, or some other group maybe.

[Shadestorm]

Well, I'm the only one who has announced my conquistador plans. So yes. First option is going with me. Who else would it be?

[Glen]

Well, I'm the only one who has announced my conquistador plans. So yes. First option is going with me. Who else would it be?

Some people might be talking in PM about banding together to do some Empire building...I know that's what I'd do if so inclined...

[Nicksplace27]

I spoke of moving south after a few years, and setting up a offspring colony near LA.

[Darkest]

Some people might be talking in PM about banding together to do some Empire building...I know that's what I'd do if so inclined...

I know that that's going to happen, I was already hinted towards one such group that is developing... Don't want to join them, but I know of them.

[Dave Howery]

I know that that's going to happen, I was already hinted towards one such group that is developing... Don't want to join them, but I know of them.
great, so a bunch of our horses are going bye bye? Can we shoot them in the back as they ride off?

[Darkest]

I don't know if they are leaving immediately, it really was just a hint. My guess is that they'll sneak off in the night or some such.

[Psychomeltdown]

I don't know if they are leaving immediately, it really was just a hint. My guess is that they'll sneak off in the night or some such.
Well, it's a known possiblity and Psychomeltdown will make sure that all the cattle and sheep in the herds under his control are not stolen. We have Roxie and now that it's know more groups will be sneaking off, we'll be extra vigilant.

Do I have authorization to shoot anyone who's trying to take off with Herd animals? :D

[Bulgaroktonos]

Well, it's a known possiblity and Psychomeltdown will make sure that all the cattle and sheep in the herds under his control are not stolen. We have Roxie and now that it's know more groups will be sneaking off, we'll be extra vigilant.

Do I have authorization to shoot anyone who's trying to take off with Herd animals? :D

I'll give it to you.

[Dave Howery]

when it was just Shadestorm running off to get killed, that was one thing... if we lose dozens of horses to his mad scheme, that'll hurt us, really badly. We can't lose that many. I'm all for shooting them in the back...

[Ward]

Well, it's a known possiblity and Psychomeltdown will make sure that all the cattle and sheep in the herds under his control are not stolen. We have Roxie and now that it's know more groups will be sneaking off, we'll be extra vigilant.

Do I have authorization to shoot anyone who's trying to take off with Herd animals? :D


Well that is something we are to role play out on day 2 .

[Darkest]

Less mouths to feed, less land to clear. Their horses can go.

Shade is bringing a buffalo, remember, that's one we can spare.

[Dave Howery]

how many are we talking here though? One horse helps a lot more than one person... we need all we can get... Shadestorm, we can do without him, since the natives will kill him and eat his buffalo... but we don't want to lose dozens of horses from our small stock...

[Dave Howery]

well, so far, only 6 people are wandering off to get killed... can we call that a set number instead of a %? If we only lose 6 people and their animals, not so bad a blow... can we assume all the NPCs are smarter than them and stay with us?

[Glen]

As in our other polls, we have to make a gross assumption that the percent answering generalizes to the NPCs as well.

That makes for 20% saying they want to join the Conquistadors...about 600 men, women, and children. And another 300 setting off on their own, with half of them trying the same stunt.

[Dave Howery]

As in our other polls, we have to make a gross assumption that the percent answering generalizes to the NPCs as well.

That makes for 20% saying they want to join the Conquistadors...about 600 men, women, and children. And another 300 setting off on their own, with half of them trying the same stunt.
ok, that's the part that bugs me.... we lose that many people and animals, it hurts us bad. Might as well not even bother....

[Glen]

ok, that's the part that bugs me.... we lose that many people and animals, it hurts us bad. Might as well not even bother....

That still leaves 70% staying...that's a pretty big number.

[Dave Howery]

I have a hard time imagining that 30% of our number will go haring off to be bloodthirsty conquistadors, and leave the obvious safety and advantages of the main group... I say only the 6 foolish ones leave, the rest stay...

[Psychomeltdown]

ok, that's the part that bugs me.... we lose that many people and animals, it hurts us bad. Might as well not even bother....
but remember if they're fleeing then they can carry only so much stuff. meaning they'll be even more unprepared to face what they've gotten themselves into. We have the knowledge, we have the tools, we have a bigger population base, they'll be a hinderance, but soon they'll either starve to death, get killed, and we'll still be living.

the most Shade could have carried was 800 lbs on his buffalo. that's including his weight and that of his wife. therefor he's left behind at least 900 lbs of equipment.

[Psychomeltdown]

I have a hard time imagining that 30% of our number will go haring off to be bloodthirsty conquistadors, and leave the obvious safety and advantages of the main group... I say only the 6 foolish ones leave, the rest stay...
I tend to agree also.

When it comes down to it realistically, those that flee are going to have a hell of a hard time doing anything. they don't have the tools or the man power to establish anything beyond a hunter gather society.

[Dave Howery]

but you can bet that every person leaving will be on a horse*.... there goes a big chunk of our herd... that's going to really slow us down...

*except Shadestorm and his future centerpiece of a native BBQ.....

and I still have a hard time with that 30% figure... there aren't that many fools in this group, I'd think....

[Glen]

Honestly, I find the percentages unrealistic as well. I think a lot of people are answering that way because they think it will make the game 'fun' and 'interesting', not because that is what they would do if really placed in that situation.

However, if we are going to base NPC statistics on our PC statistics, then we have to be true across the board.

Its actually a lot worse than that...it looks like we could have a bit of a war break out from the get go involving several dozens of people....

[Ward]

I realy can not see anyone with kids leaving the Group they would know there chances are not good in a smaller group . Also can you see someone trying to attack the natives with little kids along .

[Darkest]

Good points, good points.

I am going to make at least 50% (maybe 75%) stay with the group right off the top. They are our 'average NPCs'. The other 50% will be determined using these statistics.

So it can be fixed.

[Dave Howery]

why percentages at all? Let's just say the 6 (oops, now 7) go off and get killed? It's going to be tough enough as it is.. we certainly don't need to lose dozens of horses as well...

[Darkest]

It's not our opinion. This poll was created so we can take a census and extrapolate the results. We are already weighting the results towards the colony.

If you want the livestock back, during roleplay, figure out what's going on (realistically), track them down, kill them and take their stuff.

[Psychomeltdown]

why percentages at all? Let's just say the 6 (oops, now 7) go off and get killed? It's going to be tough enough as it is.. we certainly don't need to lose dozens of horses as well...
Ditto.

It's foolish to think nearly a third of the group will immediately be heading to make their own way. Especially when they sure as hell don't know what lies out there.

[Darkest]

The conquistadors will probably only have one other person with them (their wife). We can put them in the demographic with 1-2 people.

694 * 0.25 * 0.20833% * 2 = 72

Let them leave. Small group.

The people who just set off will have an average demographic.

694 * 0.25 * 8.33% * 4.59375 = 66

Out of 3180, I definitely think that we can expect and afford these small minorities to leave.

[Glen]

The conquistadors will probably only have one other person with them (their wife). We can put them in the demographic with 1-2 people.

694 * 0.25 * 0.20833% * 2 = 72

Let them leave. Small group.

The people who just set off will have an average demographic.

694 * 0.25 * 8.33% * 4.59375 = 66

Out of 3180, I definitely think that we can expect and afford these small minorities to leave.

You make good points, that seems reasonable.

[Ward]

The conquistadors will probably only have one other person with them (their wife). We can put them in the demographic with 1-2 people.

694 * 0.25 * 0.20833% * 2 = 72

Let them leave. Small group.

The people who just set off will have an average demographic.

694 * 0.25 * 8.33% * 4.59375 = 66

Out of 3180, I definitely think that we can expect and afford these small minorities to leave.



That makes more scince then then the other amount of people .

[Dave Howery]

so, we're losing.... 68 horses and Shadestorm's oversized bovine? I can live with that. It is going to slow down our building though...

jerks

[Darkest]

I don't advocate Shadestorm and the rest leaving any more than the rest. But the fact is I want to keep it realistic, as well as interesting. Let them go.

[Dave Howery]

yes, let us not be bitter, and when they are massacred by the natives, we will give them proper burials (at least, whatever we can find of them), say a prayer over them, and go on about our business....

[SionEwig]

Right, shoot people in the back, track them down and kill them. And many of you were so upset over how some others might treat the natives. At least Shadestorm is honest about his actions. Look, if people want to leave, then just let them go and let them take their stuff. It is not your stuff and not "The Groups" stuff. The ASBs gave each individual family an allotment to bring, not "The Group" as a whole. Personally I tend to think that you might have the larger extrapolated numbers leaving especially once any threats are made.

[Dave Howery]

I really don't care about the people leaving, it's all those horses being taken that pisses me off.. we need them! Not having them puts the rest of us in a bind.... it'll be harder and slower to haul lumber down and put up buildings now....

[Dave Howery]

one thing occurs to me... with so many NPCs heading off into the boonies, what are the chances that they will all stay in quarantine? I'm thinking little or none... someone is bound to get bored and go look up the natives. The chances of passing flu or colds onto the natives just went way up....

[Glen]

Maybe we ought to just say that the ASBs did a decon of everyone of communicable diseases before ISOTing us...makes it easier on the locals.

Also makes it easier on the mods. Its going to be tough trying to figure out the type of reaction that the locals will have to colds and flus. It's not like smallpox where death will be everywhere...

[Psychomeltdown]

Right, shoot people in the back, track them down and kill them. And many of you were so upset over how some others might treat the natives. At least Shadestorm is honest about his actions. Look, if people want to leave, then just let them go and let them take their stuff. It is not your stuff and not "The Groups" stuff. The ASBs gave each individual family an allotment to bring, not "The Group" as a whole. Personally I tend to think that you might have the larger extrapolated numbers leaving especially once any threats are made.
yeah, but they left and they left in a hurry. Therefore most were unable to take all their equipment with them. therefore there's about 50000 lbs of equipment sitting around, with no owner (as far as we're concerned)

Basically i'm in the thinking that if they leave now, they can go. If they leave later, then they've become apart of the Community and their stuff belongs to the Community. For now, those that are leaving can leave.

[Dave Howery]

Maybe we ought to just say that the ASBs did a decon of everyone of communicable diseases before ISOTing us...makes it easier on the locals.

Also makes it easier on the mods. Its going to be tough trying to figure out the type of reaction that the locals will have to colds and flus. It's not like smallpox where death will be everywhere...
on the one hand, that'd be good for the natives. OTOH, if the renegades did infect the natives, the latter would have a big grudge against them...

[Glen]

on the one hand, that'd be good for the natives. OTOH, if the renegades did infect the natives, the latter would have a big grudge against them...

They might not realize who did it...

And if they did, they might blame ALL the new people, not just them.

Best if we could just avoid it entirely.

[SionEwig]

I really don't care about the people leaving, it's all those horses being taken that pisses me off.. we need them! Not having them puts the rest of us in a bind.... it'll be harder and slower to haul lumber down and put up buildings now....

Tough, they are not YOUR horses. The allocation that the ASBs gave was per family, not "The Group" gets the animals based on how many people there are. Same for the equipment, let people have however much of it they want to take (and can of course).

[Norbert]

I should say use a set number, not a percentage. If they try to make off with more animals than they brought, I'll put a few rounds into them myself. If some are going to set up a seperate community, that would relieve some pressure on the whole. If some leave, and decide that it is to tough to make it, and want to come back, then we place them on probation until they prove that they will work for our common good. Shade can go out and get himself killed, for all I care, I wouldn't even waste a tear on it.

[Dave Howery]

Tough, they are not YOUR horses. The allocation that the ASBs gave was per family, not "The Group" gets the animals based on how many people there are. Same for the equipment, let people have however much of it they want to take (and can of course).
well, a tool, only one person can use it at a time. A horse and wagon, though, can work for a lot of people... they can haul wood for several families at one shot, or haul food to the storage buildings, etc. Each person who takes a horse hurts several other people. Their tools? Big deal, let them have them, we don't really need them. We need the horses though, and them running off with so many hurts us...

[Shadestorm]

Shade can go out and get himself killed, for all I care, I wouldn't even waste a tear on it.

Hey thanks guys! :)

[Dave Howery]

well, Shade, at least you will be helping out the natives for a short time... the carcasses of you, your wife, and your buffalo will feed them for many a day...

[SionEwig]

Since I can't change it in the poll, I thought I would post that my vote is changing from 'Stay but don't try to stop the Conquistadors' to 'Set off on my own.'

So that would make the votes (at this moment) - 4 / 1 / 3 / 12 / 4

[Psychomeltdown]

so what does this mean, that every time a person leaves, 28 NPCs and their families join him?

Good luck on your endevours, Sion. I suggest you keep out of the Bay Area.

[SionEwig]

so what does this mean, that every time a person leaves, 28 NPCs and their families join him?

Good luck on your endevours, Sion. I suggest you keep out of the Bay Area.

Don't go burning those bridges. I'll be back next year or so with some items that the colony will want.

[DominusNovus]

I say we let some people go, to establish relations with the locals. Go spread out, learn the terrain, be nice to the natives (give them useful stuff), learn their ways, etc.

So, rather than yelling at all those people who want to go do their own thing, support them, in the hopes that they'll side with us overall, in helping us out.

[schrammy]

i would also stay with the main colony, there is strenght in numbers and it is in my opinion the safest bet for survival in the long run.

[Glen]

I think the annoying thing is people just 'taking off''. The sensible thing would be to stick around for the first month or so helping set up (making certain you're not contagious with anything), and then set out on your various projects, maybe even telling people where you are going and what you hope to accomplish. You'll want people to know for trade purposes and what not.

For example, we are eventually going to want to send people down to Death Valley for mining resources.

This just 'taking off' concept is silly. Also rather silly is the idea that just because you want to go somwhere other than the Bay area, that that makes you somehow not part of our society.

Like it or not, we are all in this together...

[Steffen]

I put my vote firmly in the stay with the group" camp, but the handling of the would-be conqusitadors depends on the relative strength of the two groups and if we have to use some of their abilities.

[Hendryk]

I say let them leave if they want to. The more sensible ones will come back soon enough with their tails between their legs, and we can let them back in on our terms.
Personally, I'm staying with the group. None of that romantic delusional trailblazing stuff for me; we'll survive much better as an organized community.

[Grimm Reaper]

I remember Walker and his crew. If our renegades survive and set up a pocket empire, they inevitably will fear us as the one threat to their rule.

Therefore early action on our part constitutes self-defense.:)

[SionEwig]

I think the annoying thing is people just 'taking off''. The sensible thing would be to stick around for the first month or so helping set up (making certain you're not contagious with anything), and then set out on your various projects, maybe even telling people where you are going and what you hope to accomplish. You'll want people to know for trade purposes and what not.

That would be the sensible thing to do except for the confiscation decrees set down by some people. According to them if you don't leave on the first day then you will not have your animals and any food not used yet. And you would also be leaving any other stuff that you can't carry. But that is better than the 'shoot them in the back' pronouncement that was going for a while.

For example, we are eventually going to want to send people down to Death Valley for mining resources.

Yes, that is part of what I plan on doing next year, but I know that it isn't necessary yet. At least I have actually been to and collected at the sulfur and borate deposits.

This just 'taking off' concept is silly. Also rather silly is the idea that just because you want to go somwhere other than the Bay area, that that makes you somehow not part of our society.

You are right on both points, now if only you could get the second across to the ruling committee then things might improve.

Like it or not, we are all in this together...

Again you are right. However some are leaving no room other opinions.

One thing I am somewhat curious about is how many people have decided to not play due to things like this.

[schrammy]

Yes, that is part of what I plan on doing next year, but I know that it isn't necessary yet. At least I have actually been to and collected at the sulfur and borate deposits

this is excelent news if you indeed know the exact location that will be a great help,you wouldn't happen to be good at geology than and know how we might find other recources as well (we are brining the maps ofcourse)

[SionEwig]

this is excelent news if you indeed know the exact location that will be a great help,you wouldn't happen to be good at geology than and know how we might find other recources as well (we are brining the maps ofcourse)

Well, I'm a mining engineer/geologist (or geologist/mining engineer depending on what I am doing on a particular day :D ). Though since I retired 3 years ago I've been doing a bit of teaching and playing as a paleobotonist (petrified wood, now that's what you build a log cabin out of).

[Othniel]

I know I plan to leave at a later date, after the community is thriving and anouther location calls my name.

[Glen]

That would be the sensible thing to do except for the confiscation decrees set down by some people. According to them if you don't leave on the first day then you will not have your animals and any food not used yet. And you would also be leaving any other stuff that you can't carry. But that is better than the 'shoot them in the back' pronouncement that was going for a while.

And who says they will be the final word on that. The whole community will have to decide on such matters.


Yes, that is part of what I plan on doing next year, but I know that it isn't necessary yet. At least I have actually been to and collected at the sulfur and borate deposits.

Great! Of course, some of this is old hat for you. Got some suggestions?

You are right on both points, now if only you could get the second across to the ruling committee then things might improve.

First off, there is no ruling committee...yet. Second, sounds like I'm liable to be a part of that committee or council or cabinet, so I will be getting that acrosss.


Again you are right. However some are leaving no room other opinions.

Right now its just talk. Counter it, if you've a mind. That's democracy for ya...


One thing I am somewhat curious about is how many people have decided to not play due to things like this.

Good point, but then again, if they are going to let commentary they don't like the sound of deter them, I doubt they'd last very long IC anyway...

[Dave Howery]

I wonder just what the people who are just 'taking off' think is going to happen to them? How are they going to feed themselves? Isn't it likely that bears and wolves will eat them? Where are they going to live? And the biggest danger is that the natives will rob and/or kill them.... a handful of people all alone, much too inviting a target...

[Psychomeltdown]

The most likely situation they'll come to is making at most a hunter gather society, because they lack the necessary tools to do anything bigger. they won't be making guns or anything, just doing all they can to survive.

[Dave Howery]

well, the number of people going off to get killed has dropped to about 21%, so we won't be losing quite so many horses as we'd thought...

[Norbert]

Without a civilized infrastructure, the group going off will be equiped much as the natives in 4-5 years.

[Psychomeltdown]

well, the number of people going off to get killed has dropped to about 21%, so we won't be losing quite so many horses as we'd thought...
kewl...

I still dislike the percentage thing.

[Dave Howery]

if they live that long... the natives have the advantage of having done what they're doing for a long long time... the newcomers know diddly about anything... where to find food, what plants are poisonous, etc. The ones who don't get eaten by bears are likely to eat something poisonous and die... if the natives don't get them first...

[Norbert]

if they live that long... the natives have the advantage of having done what they're doing for a long long time... the newcomers know diddly about anything... where to find food, what plants are poisonous, etc. The ones who don't get eaten by bears are likely to eat something poisonous and die... if the natives don't get them first...

They will have little to worry about from black or brown bears, Grizzleys on the other hand....
Of course there are the Pumas (ie Mountain Lions), and Wolves to worry about. Pumas are good hunters, though at most would be in pairs, and they will see the livestock as easy prey. Wolves are smart, and use tactics to hunt dangerous prey, 2 in front, 2 in back playing 'tag-team' and wearing their enemy down. Yes, the first times they hear gun-fire, they will shy away, but they will always keep coming back, and when the big booms stop coming (out of ammo), they will close in for the kill.
If the group trys to pass over the mountains, and gets stuck, and runs out of food... (Donner! Party of Eight!)

[Dave Howery]

If I calculated it right, the new numbers of the doomed are:
62 people running off to be conquistadors (30 horses and 1 buffalo)
55 people running off on their own (not sure as to the horses, as these are families and not just couples... say 23-25?)
so, a net loss of 53-55 horses... still hurts, but a little less than before..

[Darkest]

Current status:

42 conquistadors (20 horses, 1 buffalo)

11 conquistadors that set off by themselves (5 large animals)

72 people that just abandon the group straight off. (about 16 riding animals)

Net loss: 125 people (mostly adults, but some children), their loads, and 42 riding animals (probably horses).

You want to set this as a static, end-percentage? I'll lock the post if you guys agree.

[Norbert]

Go ahead and lock it.

[Ward]

Go ahead and lock it

[Straha]

in before the lock

[Glen]

Poll ends tonight...leave it open until then.

[Othniel]

I'm going to nominate Lukeal for Town Crier until we can get a newspaper, or even better radio (telegraph, etc....) up and running.

[Ward]

I'm going to nominate Lukeal for Town Crier until we can get a newspaper, or even better radio (telegraph, etc....) up and running.


Why what did he do wrong as I get the razor strap :eek:

[Othniel]

Why what did he do wrong as I get the razor strap :eek:
Town Crier is the one who announces the news Ward. Its how they did it before Newspapers...

[Ward]

Town Crier is the one who announces the news Ward. Its how they did it before Newspapers...


I know just having some fun . Plus I have never used a belt let a lone a razor strap on any child and I never would .