ALT What We are taking with us.

[Ward]

Ok People we are ready to start the Game


The ASB are leting us take 1 Large Animal and 1 med Animal Per member of the Board .

We are allowed 1,200 Lbs for the large Animal . And 100 lbs for everyone who is coming over with us . We are also alowed 40Lbs for each Aduilt that comes along that they can carry besides this is clothing and any small animals we want to carry plus any other ideams we want to carry .

Rember if you live at home your parents and siblings are comeing along also.
If you have children and Grand children they are comeing also .

If you live alone you may bring a clone of any one member of the opposit sex with you . That is is you are over 18 years old .

So start listing what you and your family group will bring and who you are bring with you .

Rember the ASB Will move what we list on skids to are site . But they will mark are names on are skids so we can only unload are own skids .

[SionEwig]

Ok People we are ready to start the Game


The ASB are leting us take 1 Large Animal and 1 med Animal Per member of the Board .

We are allowed 1,200 Lbs for the large Animal . And 100 lbs for everyone who is coming over with us . We are also alowed 40Lbs for each Aduilt that comes along that they can carry besides this is clothing and any small animals we want to carry plus any other ideams we want to carry .

Rember if you live at home your parents and siblings are comeing along also.
If you have children and Grand children they are comeing also .

If you live alone you may bring a clone of any one member of the opposit sex with you . That is is you are over 18 years old .

So start listing what you and your family group will bring and who you are bring with you .

Rember the ASB Will move what we list on skids to are site . But they will mark are names on are skids so we can only unload are own skids .

Ok, I'll start off with at least the "Who" in my family.

Myself and wife, 4 sons ages 6 - 10.

As far as stuff, I'll have to get back later on that. If I am reading what you wrote correctly (an I could be off, having a particularly dense day), my family would have 1800 lbs (that we do not have to be physically carrying at the cross over), another 80 lbs (that we would be carrying), 1 large animal, and an unspecified number of small animals.

Is that the correct amount? You are not really clear in that last sentence where you list the weights.

[Dave Howery]

4 sons?! Damn, you got yourself an advantage right off the bat there... :)

although finding wives for them all later might be tough...

[Ward]

Ok, I'll start off with at least the "Who" in my family.

Myself and wife, 4 sons ages 6 - 10.

As far as stuff, I'll have to get back later on that. If I am reading what you wrote correctly (an I could be off, having a particularly dense day), my family would have 1800 lbs (that we do not have to be physically carrying at the cross over), another 80 lbs (that we would be carrying), 1 large animal, and an unspecified number of small animals.

Is that the correct amount? You are not really clear in that last sentence where you list the weights.


There is an Extra 40 lbs per aduilt that they will be carring as they cross over . This should be at less one weapon and a lunch for your family . It will take you a while to find your own skids of ideams .This also includes your clothing . Your boys have the clothing you and your wife had them put on .
Also if you want and you have a pet that weights under 20 lbs or a couple of chickens .

[SionEwig]

Just some food for thought while looking at what to bring.

What time of year will we be arriving?

I think that there might need to be a reconsideration of the weight limit. Looking at food alone a large amount of the weight allowance will need to be alloted to that.

Using my family as an example - 2 adults and 4 children

2 MREs per day for the adults and 1 per day for the children comes to 8 MREs per day, and at 2 lbs/MRE this comes to 16 lbs/day, 480 lbs/30 days.

I really recommend more than 30 days of food per person. More like 90 - 120 days worth would be better. A large amount of the crops will not be producing until 60 plus days from planting, and that assumes that we get there during growing season (March through December). We could have to wait 60 plus days before the new growing season starts. As an aside, 1 January would be my suggestion. While we will probably be able forage and hunt some to suppliment the supplies, I wouldn't count on it. It is much better to be ready to supply our own food and have some left over than not have enough to start with.

Back to the example above, 120 days of food for my family would be 1920 lbs (which is 40 lbs over the weight allowance of 1880 lbs if my understanding of that was correct).

Just think on it.

[Ward]

Just some food for thought while looking at what to bring.

What time of year will we be arriving?

I think that there might need to be a reconsideration of the weight limit. Looking at food alone a large amount of the weight allowance will need to be alloted to that.

Using my family as an example - 2 adults and 4 children

2 MREs per day for the adults and 1 per day for the children comes to 8 MREs per day, and at 2 lbs/MRE this comes to 16 lbs/day, 480 lbs/30 days.

I really recommend more than 30 days of food per person. More like 90 - 120 days worth would be better. A large amount of the crops will not be producing until 60 plus days from planting, and that assumes that we get there during growing season (March through December). We could have to wait 60 plus days before the new growing season starts. As an aside, 1 January would be my suggestion. While we will probably be able forage and hunt some to suppliment the supplies, I wouldn't count on it. It is much better to be ready to supply our own food and have some left over than not have enough to start with.

Back to the example above, 120 days of food for my family would be 1920 lbs (which is 40 lbs over the weight allowance of 1880 lbs if my understanding of that was correct).

Just think on it.


I know thats light but thats better then we were going to start with wich was what we could carry .

Flour and beens, also pennutbutter will help out in the weight . There are better meals out there then MRE's . Check out some of the hiking and backpaking foods .

[General_Paul]

General_Paul's list:

Large Animal: Mustang Horse
Medium Animal: Labrador Retriever (black)

Family to be taken: None
Women to be taken: None. I don't need the companionship, unless I can get myself a clone of lindsay lohan, then I'd be good to go...

Items to carry: Mauser K-98 bolt action rifle.
500 rounds for Mauser
Colt 1911 Semi-Autmatic
10 clips and 150 rounds

Food- 150 lbs. worth of food.

Misc. Items-

Axe- two handed for chopping down small-medium trees
Hunting Knife
Bastard Sword (for when ammo runs out)
Books- hard decision, but I'd choose 15 hardbacks, including the entire set of Churchill's History of the English Speaking peoples, and his history of the second world war, and 30 paperbacks, including smaller novellas, and larger paperbacks. And of course a copy fo the book "How Things Work", that thing has a diagram of EVERYTHING.
Seeds- 30 lbs. worth of seeds.
Anything else is secondary.

[Ward]

General_Paul's list:

Large Animal: Mustang Horse
Medium Animal: Labrador Retriever (black)

Family to be taken: None
Women to be taken: None. I don't need the companionship, unless I can get myself a clone of lindsay lohan, then I'd be good to go...

Items to carry: Mauser K-98 bolt action rifle.
500 rounds for Mauser
Colt 1911 Semi-Autmatic
10 clips and 150 rounds

Food- 150 lbs. worth of food.

Misc. Items-

Axe- two handed for chopping down small-medium trees
Hunting Knife
Bastard Sword (for when ammo runs out)
Books- hard decision, but I'd choose 15 hardbacks, including the entire set of Churchill's History of the English Speaking peoples, and his history of the second world war, and 30 paperbacks, including smaller novellas, and larger paperbacks. And of course a copy fo the book "How Things Work", that thing has a diagram of EVERYTHING.
Seeds- 30 lbs. worth of seeds.
Anything else is secondary.



well you will get a clone of her to come with you. GP
Also you have more weight of iteams to come . Please bring your full weight amount .

[Norbert]

Ok, so there is myself and ??? Can I have the wife I had when I played myself in an RPG? She was a real survivor (good looking too...):p (come to think of it, she did seem to have a thing for gelding knives...:o )

Animals:
1 Female Morgan Horse.
1 Female Angorra Goat.

Other Gear: I will have to work on that one (time to get out the lists and catalogs:D )

[Ward]

Well I'm bring a Bull for my large animal and a female Goat.
Totol weight I can Bring is 2800lbs

My wife will be with me as will be my 2 aduilt sons and there Wifes , My married daughter and her husban , my 16 year old son a 14 year old grand daughter , 8 year old Grand daughter , 7 year old Grandson , 6 year old grand daughter , 5 year old Grand son , 2,1/2 year old Granddaughter . and 1 year old grand son.

600 lbs of Food in Caning jars 50lbs worth of Rubbergaskets for them.
100 lbs of Flour in plastic Bins , 100 lbs of of Beens , 100lbs of spices
2 x foot power sawing machines 90 lbs together
1 plow 100 lbs
1 manual Washing machine 47lbs
4x push scythes 15lbs each 60 lbs
1x 1900 carpiter chest of tools 80 lbs
1x tent 105 lbs this tent is 20x 12 with floor and able to take a wood stove in it .
1 packers wood stove 45 lbs with pipes to go out through the tent.
11x Covered cots 5 lbs each 55 lbs
a hand powered seed drill 12 lbs
sausage stuffer 25lbs
2 meat Glinders 10 lbs each
6 shovels 3 lbs each 18lbs 6 holes 3 lbs each 18 lbs , 6x post hoe digers 3 lbs each 18lbs , 6 x picks 6 lbs each 36lbs , 6x pitch forks 3 lbs each 18lbs.
10 x Axes 3 lbs each 30lbs , 6ft two men saws x 2 5 lbs each 10 lbs ,
200 lbs of seeds ,
4x wheel barows . 15lbs each 60lbs
8 54 cal hawkings rifles 6 lbs each 48lbs 100 lbs of powder 50 lbs of shot.
12 x blackhawk 357 pistols 4lbs each 48 lbs 50 lbs of rounds (1250)
12 x 22 rifles 3 lbs each 36lbs and 74 lbs of 22 rounds (8500)
100 lbs of pots and pans and dishs.
100 lbs of soaps , 20 lbs of wax , 20 lbs of candle holders , 10lbso of candles.
20 lbs of sewing supply , and 80 lbs of cloth .
60 lbs of bedding .
6x grub hoe 6lbs eash 36lbs
4 x springfield 1903 9lbs each 36lbs 99lbs of ammo (1500)
50lbs of screws,50lbs of nails.
6x sapers 3lbs eash 18lbs
50lbs 3/4 in coper pipe 20lbs of fittigs.
88lbs of cothing

[Forum Lurker]

Let's see: Family size is one Forum Lurker with significant other (ASB-cloned), no minor dependents.

Large animal is one Guernsey cow, pregnant.
Small animal is one Rhode Island Red hen, pregnant.

Equipment includes:
One set nested aluminum cookware, including the pipes and seals necessary to operate as a still.
One hatchet with hammer back and prybar.
One shovel, spade-type blade.
One folding knife each, aluminum handle, 3.25 inch blade.
Set of binders containing, in laminated sheets on non-acidic paper, maps of local resources, world map (topographical and hydrographical), engineering details of basic industrial machines (steam engine, blast furnace, shuttle loom, etc.) including formulae and table of logarithms, graphic and text descriptions of human anatomy and disease, with treatment where possible at low tech level (particularly nutrition information), descriptions of domesticable North American species, cultivation instructions for these and for crops we have brought, complete Tanakh and Conservative Siddur with translation and transliteration.
One surgical kit.
Two lightweight cold-weather sleeping bags.
Two high-durability hunting crossbows, 100 broadheads.
Small footpedal lathe, disassembled.

The remainder of the capacity, including that in the cow-drawn cart, is given over to storage of dried but viable soybeans (30% by weight) and potatoes (70% by weight, 10% seed potatoes).

[Dave Howery]

descriptions of domesticable North American species,
that's a pretty short list... turkeys, llamas, guinea pigs. Plants: corn, squash, beans, tomatoes, potatoes... in general, it'd be better to bring these along instead of finding their wild ancestors... N. America kinda got shorted when it came to domesticable animals...

[Norbert]

Let's see: Family size is one Forum Lurker with significant other (ASB-cloned), no minor dependents.

OH NO!!!!! A female clone of Forum Lurker!!!!!:p

[Forum Lurker]

descriptions of domesticable North American species,
that's a pretty short list... turkeys, llamas, guinea pigs. Plants: corn, squash, beans, tomatoes, potatoes... in general, it'd be better to bring these along instead of finding their wild ancestors... N. America kinda got shorted when it came to domesticable animals...
Can you recognize the common bean in its wild form, during a season when the bean itself isn't growing? Pumpkins? I can't, and it's handy information. Remember, we're talking about a single laminated sheet of paper; not a huge expenditure for the potential return.

[jolo]

Me, my gf, a pregnant horse, a pregnant goat (no jokes please), 1400 lb of luggage, and 80 lb of hand luggage would come along.

All equipment is packed shock resistant, water tight and lighter than water - just in case.

Our clothes might be from a store for adventure tours, sports, hunting, or military clothes - protective, durable, and practical. Good isolation against rain, wind, and cold. Preferably 2 shirts each which protect agains knifes, arrows and maybe even some shooting (lots of young hunters around :) ). Watertight boots for each of us for fishing in colder water, for working in swamps, and the likes. A helmet each for riding, also resistant against arrows and the likes. A utility belt each, with some tools and weapons. A lightweight winter jacket each (we'll be able to produce leather jackets pretty soon). Scarves for any cold weather. A backpack with lots to eat and drink, a survival kit, and a big medikit each. A swimming vest each in case the landscape around Ians home has changed a lot - later for fishing on open water.

A lot of seeds for all kinds of useful plants - mostly food plants with high gain and little work. Also bamboo for pipes and sugar, cotton, flax, some fast growing trees, and so on. Preferrably long lasting seeds, to keep some in case the first one or two seasons go bad.

A lot of dry food, sugar, oil, and so on, mostly for calories - vitamins, minerals, and proteins will be available there. Some salt.

A box with fertile eggs of chicken and geese. A few thermometers to check the temperatures of the box, of people, of chemicals/water, on the outside, and so on. A bag for carrying the box under my clothes (I don't care how I look :) ).

A durable light weight tent with good isolation. 2 sleeping bags and 2 iso-matresses.

Lots of clothing - all of the practical and durable variant.

Lots of mostly thin wire for repairs, joints, and maybe later some electrics.

Ropes for constructing, building, transporting, climbing, and so on. A few linkages of different sizes.

Belts for transporting, for joints, for building equipment like a horse plow, and so on.

Different kinds of tape and glue.

Lots of strong threads, wool and ready made cloth to produce what we forgot, to repair clothes, to modify clothes and other equipment according to need, and so on. According needles and other tools.

A few gloves for hard work and cold weather.

Different durable shoes with steel caps, a few durable light weight shoes for long walks and climbing.

The usual hygiene and toilet articles. My gf will need quite a few hygiene articles - we'll also have to find some solutions for typical female problems - no underwear will probably not be too popular...

A flint stone, a lighter which can run on alcohol, a few candles, a dynamo light.

Diving goggles. A snorkel. A few inflatable matresses. A pump which can be used for air and water.

A simple lightweight saddle big enough for 2 people.

A good encyclopedia, a science dictionary, a math dictionary, an English dictionary, a dictionary for each of the languages I and my gf know, a book full of high resolution world maps (elevation and depth, climate, ressources, rivers, dams, channels, soil types, changes in sea levels...), a book of historic catastrophic events (floods, volcanoes, possible impacts) and climate changes (desertification, temperatures, rainfall...), lots of books with exact plans for all kinds of machinery and tools, engines, cars, and so on, a chemistry dictionary, a big book on medicine, a geologists handbook to identify different materials, a plant handbook to identify plants and their uses, a book on producing glass, mirrors and ceramics, a book on treating wood to produce large boards and paper, a book on optics and optical instruments, and a book on medieval technology (clothes, leather, glue, soap...).

A small notebook packed with all this and some more, as well as some useful programs for mapping, building, calculating, stats, bookkeeping, and so on. A wifi connection to the other computer users to exchange informations. A printer able to print on all kinds of paper - I might prefer an old needle printer, as they can be repaired locally, and any kind of ink can be used. Even better would be a type printer with a graphical type set - if that's available anywhere. Maybe even with it's own keyboard, in case the computer fails. Some normal paper and some carbon-copy paper would also be useful.

A few solar panels, light weight batteries, and other equipment to get a 110 volt electric system with lights, computer-equipment, battery chargers, a bench saw, a drill, a shaver, and so on, running. A few dynamos to collect wind and water energy. A turbine for a small hydroelectric system which should also be usable as a pump. Plastic pipes or hoses for a simple hydroelectric and running water system. Replacement parts for things we will not be able to produce soon. All in standards coordinated with the rest of you, so that we can exchange parts or make them work together.

A few digital watches. A few blankets. A few lamps and cables. A few rechargable flash lights of differing strength. Night vision goggles with rechargeable batteries. A binocular and a telescope. An eye-piece to build a mirror telescope.

Some dynamite or the likes for a little bit of terraforming.

Some syringes, some medical knifes, and other medical equipment. Quite a bit of medicine for common medical problems - fungicides, antibiotica, alcohol, and so on.

Some pens and pencils, empty notepads, and so on. Some chalk, a few small chalk boards, a few medium chalk boards, and maybe a larger light weight chalk board.

A big bunch of hard to fake coupons with differing face values, and customer cards for each of you. The coupons' value will be tagged to my inventory. Everything is given a buy and a sell value. When someone sells me something, he gets coupons or a credit on his customer account and can buy whatever he wants from me - then or later. Whenever someone buys something from me, he can use coupons or his customer account. A negative balance is allowed if I see chances to get the money back - either by depositing something, or by guaranteing with his property.

A collection of army knifes, a small and a big axe, a pick axe, a shovel, a spade, a plow, a scythe, a knife grinder.

The usual cook ware and some equipment to build a stove with an oven from stones or mud.

A rifle, 2 revolvers, lots of ammo, a good bow, a few arrows, a few spear tips, and a light dagger also come along.

A tool box with all kinds of suitable tools - mainly for wood, but also some for our machines, vehicles, and equipment. Manual drills and saws of all usual sizes. If there's enough weight left, maybe a really big saw, too - for big trees.

Lots of different kinds of nails, and some screws.

Lots of hinges for doors, windows, and so on. Some locks and keys.

A durable hand cart of simple built, so that damaged parts can be replaced easily.

A light weight horse cart.

A part of a vehicle for which others bring the remaining parts along - an earth mover, a tractor, a trailer, a truck, or the likes. Some diesel oil.

A kit to built a pedal driven rotary table for pottery and for crafting round things of wood.

A chain saw which runs on all kinds of flammable liquids, if possible, or at least the ones we can soon produce - oil or alcohol. Preferably of the same built as the ones other bring along, for spare parts.

Everything should be packed in reusable practical packaging - glass and plastic jars, canistars, containers, bags, and so on. A few cooling boxes running on 110 volts would also be practical.

Some equipment is omitted if at least 2 people bring it along and if I don't really need it personally.

My main profession will be trader - I'll also try to get electricity up and running to use or to sell it, a few fishponds in the back of my home, a lumber mill, and whatever else I figure out and have time for. My front yard will be a patio with small stores around, in which Indians and others can store and offer their goods. My gf will do some gardening, help me in the shop, and cut hair. As soon as possible, I'll help produce electrical and combustion engines, vehicles, and so on.

I hope I didn't forget too much. :)

[Darkest]

Electricity? Interesting...

I think someone should be given the job of going all out on electrical equipment. As many solar cell panels as possible, maybe some kind of set-it-up-yourself wind-powered generator, as well as maybe a computer that can be the information hub of the colony. Tons of information on how-to-do-stuff on CDs and downloaded. A television (we need to remember our culture) would be cool. And the rest should be refrigerators, really important that we have refrigeration, could come in handy. Other electrical equipment that would be important: a clock, maybe some medical/dental equipment, though that seems hard...

Oh man, what are we going to do about dentistry and orthodontics? Our kids are going to have some NASTY teeth, and so are we if we don't have good toothbrushes or toothpase.

[Dave Howery]

Can you recognize the common bean in its wild form, during a season when the bean itself isn't growing? Pumpkins? I can't, and it's handy information. Remember, we're talking about a single laminated sheet of paper; not a huge expenditure for the potential return.
actually, at this point in time, I'm not sure if any of these American plants have been domesticated... in which case, they'll be useless to us, as they'll have tiny seeds/fruit... they haven't been selectively bred into modern forms yet. Thus, we'd be better off just bringing modern seeds with us..

[Shadestorm]

My clone will be of Miranda Otto, and we will be able to carry 1,340 lbs. on our black female mustang horse. I'll bring along a red-tailed hawk. We'll bring saddle and saddlebags, 4 thick woven wool blankets, 4 fine cloth blankets, 3 Safari 550 DGR Rifles w/ fluted barrels and QD scope rings, 20 lbs. of 600 Gr. bullets, 3 Ruger hunting revolver w/ 10 lbs. of 45 Colt cartridges, and two satchels of flash grenades. I'll bring 5 lbs. of MREs, 30 lbs. of marijuana and 30 lbs. of opium in waterproof plastic containers, 20 lbs. of marijuana seed and 20 lbs. of poppy seeds in the same containers, 4 gas lighters, 4 flashlights w/ 10 changes of batteries, a large waterproof tarp, 20 ft. of heavy synthetic rope, 2 laser pointers, a boom-box and a case of rock and roll CDs w/ changes of batteries, and 2 cold-weather sleeping bags. We'll be wearing bullet-proof vests under camoflauge outfits, cold weather gear, digital watches with lifelong batteries, sunglasses, leather gloves, waterproof boots, and bringing 10 boxes of 3 Musketeer bars, 3 swiss army knives, 1 machete, a hatchet, and enough rope to tie it all to my horse.

[Ward]

My clone will be of Miranda Otto, and we will be able to carry 1,340 lbs. on our black female mustang horse. I'll bring along a red-tailed hawk. We'll bring saddle and saddlebags, 4 thick woven wool blankets, 4 fine cloth blankets, 3 Safari 550 DGR Rifles w/ fluted barrels and QD scope rings, 20 lbs. of 600 Gr. bullets, 3 Ruger hunting revolver w/ 10 lbs. of 45 Colt cartridges. I'll bring 5 lbs. of MREs, 30 lbs. of marijuana in waterproof plastic containers, 20 lbs. of marijuana seed in the same containers, 4 gas lighters, 4 flashlights w/ 10 changes of batteries, a large waterproof tarp, 20 ft. of heavy synthetic rope, 2 laser pointers, a boom-box and a case of rock and roll CDs w/ changes of batteries, and 2 cold-weather sleeping bags. We'll be wearing bullet-proof vests under camoflauge outfits, cold weather gear, digital watches with lifelong batteries, sunglasses, leather gloves, waterproof boots, and bringing 10 boxes of 3 Musketeer bars, 3 swiss army knives, 1 machete, and enough rope to tie it all to my horse.


Shadestorm you are about 900 lbs light . How about bring the Windmill it weighs in at 300 lbs and will pumb water . How about bring 100 lbs of salt and 100 lbs of peper and some tools you will need them to work the fields , and build your house .

[Shadestorm]

I'm not going to build a house. I need it to be light so I can ride away with it all packed onto my horse, ready to ride days away to the north. That's why I have 60 lbs. of both marijuana and opium, and enough seeds for the next crop. No one has drugs in the new world. That is, except me :) .

The natives'll love me. See ya later guys! Have fun building a 'community'! I'm off to start my drug empire and slave trade among the indians.

[Dave Howery]

and when they kill you and take all your stuff, we'll remember you with sadness and grief...

[Shadestorm]

That's what the hunting rifles, revolvers, flash grenades, flashlights, laser pointers, and boom box is for. I'll scare the holy living crap out of them; enough to let them know I'm a god. A god bringing salvation in the form of drugs.

[Norbert]

Here is a thought for you folk: Has anyone thought of light weight, portable musical instruments? Like guitars, violins? The first period of life after the ISOT will be hard work for everyone, but there is a need for people to blow off steam with things that are fun (A Dance?!). I do not know the backgrounds of most of you, but I seem to see myself teaching proper logging and clearing of land, having been taught to use a wide variety of looging tools, from chainsaws, axes, two-man crosscuts, peevies, etc. As well as how to safely snake logs out of logging areas. I also have been taught the 'old-fashioned' way to do work; even though my father was born in 1927, his father was born in 1889, and we learn skills from our mentors, and their skills reflect the ways of their mentors, and so on. Take it from an old fashioned farmer, who got off the farm because of to many aches and pains, We need to provide some sort of entertainment to relieve stress, or we will soon go for each others throats...

[Darkest]

My father is also has experience in woodcutting, so add that to my family's assets.

As for fun, we definitely ought to bring musical instruments, maybe even one per family, to create bands and have free time. That or equipment to paint pieces of art or sculpt or something...

[Dave Howery]

dang, what useful skills do I have? Well, I have a lot of broad knowledge that'd be useful, but not much in detail. My family raised pigs when I was a kid, but I happily forgot all of that when I graduated HS. Guess I could probably do it again, but I don't really know how I'd handle any diseases they'd get. I know something about gardening, and could probably succeed with that, with some appropriate books and trial and error. I've hunted deer and ducks back in my youth, but wouldn't really want to do that as a living. I'm afraid I'd be one of the grunts Ward would have to give lots of instruction to...

[Ward]

dang, what useful skills do I have? Well, I have a lot of broad knowledge that'd be useful, but not much in detail. My family raised pigs when I was a kid, but I happily forgot all of that when I graduated HS. Guess I could probably do it again, but I don't really know how I'd handle any diseases they'd get. I know something about gardening, and could probably succeed with that, with some appropriate books and trial and error. I've hunted deer and ducks back in my youth, but wouldn't really want to do that as a living. I'm afraid I'd be one of the grunts Ward would have to give lots of instruction to...


well I will teach you how to plow and take care of the the animals .

[jolo]

Here is a thought for you folk: Has anyone thought of light weight, portable musical instruments? Like guitars, violins? The first period of life after the ISOT will be hard work for everyone, but there is a need for people to blow off steam with things that are fun (A Dance?!). I do not know the backgrounds of most of you, but I seem to see myself teaching proper logging and clearing of land, having been taught to use a wide variety of looging tools, from chainsaws, axes, two-man crosscuts, peevies, etc. As well as how to safely snake logs out of logging areas. I also have been taught the 'old-fashioned' way to do work; even though my father was born in 1927, his father was born in 1889, and we learn skills from our mentors, and their skills reflect the ways of their mentors, and so on. Take it from an old fashioned farmer, who got off the farm because of to many aches and pains, We need to provide some sort of entertainment to relieve stress, or we will soon go for each others throats...

I'll store a few mp3s on my Notebook - though it'll not be heard on a party where everyone talks...

[Dave Howery]

well I will teach you how to plow and take care of the the animals .
actually, I'd rather learn how to raise potatoes and vegetables... I wanna be a gardener... hey, we need that stuff too...

[Ward]

Guys when you are loading up with supplys rember to bring some lux iteams .


Also check wome of the iteams I'm bringing it might help in what you might think of bring .

[Bulgaroktonos]

Is anybody else noticing that we have a decent population of people to lord it over?

The way I see it, we are far more useful actually teaching the art of making things and instructing them how to do things than anything else. But then again, I expect to be relatively lonely out there in the wilderness. I'll be a highly unproductive member of our society, seeking only a journey to Africa.

And why San Francisco? Its going to be cold as balls. I suggest Africa as it will be very temperate and we can easily expand into the rest of the world, and not be isolated from everything else.

[jolo]

Is anybody else noticing that we have a decent population of people to lord it over?


They'll automatically be helpful to us thanks to the markets being set up.

[Gedca]

The ASB are leting us take 1 Large Animal and 1 med Animal Per member of the Board .I thinka horse and a cat would work fine.
We are allowed 1,200 Lbs for the large Animal . And 100 lbs for everyone who is coming over with us . We are also alowed 40Lbs for each Aduilt that comes along that they can carry besides this is clothing and any small animals we want to carry plus any other ideams we want to carry .Some knives
100 pounds worth of seeds
Chess/checkers board
5 decks of cards
Some clocks that don't require batteries
A few tents
Encyclopedia set
Boy scout handbook
100 torches (those big lighters)
A few dozen extra pairs of overalls
A few flashlights
A plow
A few quality axes
A couple boxes of nails
A few sleeping bags
The rest will be food that will be good for while

Rember if you live at home your parents and siblings are comeing along also. I have 2 brothers and one sister. My dad has a strong background in math and physics, my mom has a strong background in biology and chemistry.

[Othniel]

First off I have 7 people. (immeadiate family plus promised devoted wife...)

Myself (19 year old healthy male)
Father (49 year old, ageing)
Mother (44 year old )
Sister (17)
Brother (15)
Sister (8)

I want to focus on planning and building. I'll bring an oxen, female pregnate, and a Brittany Spaniel

My Brother gets to bring a 2 yr. old hen, as does my younger sister.

The ox will haul a cart.

[Dave Howery]

And why San Francisco? Its going to be cold as balls. I suggest Africa as it will be very temperate and we can easily expand into the rest of the world, and not be isolated from everything else.
I chose SF because Ian lives there.... if you read the original post, you notice we appear where his house is located. But it's not a bad location really, as it is a Zone 9 area and has some of the most fertile land in the world. Africa? Well, south Africa would work, but it's drier and has a lot more dangerous animals. Anything above the south africa part wouldn't be so good... very dry or jungle or desert...

[Ward]

I chose SF because Ian lives there.... if you read the original post, you notice we appear where his house is located. But it's not a bad location really, as it is a Zone 9 area and has some of the most fertile land in the world. Africa? Well, south Africa would work, but it's drier and has a lot more dangerous animals. Anything above the south africa part wouldn't be so good... very dry or jungle or desert...



By the Wau Ian PM me that he lives in an Aprtment . Oh boy how about the just his apartment .

[SionEwig]

BIG SUGGESTION

As has been said by a few, there are several items that are going to be extremely useful but are very weighty. Many of these are very much things that would be of great use to the entire community.

So, my suggestion is that each family group (that would be 451 groups if we go with Active Members) set aside 10 lbs of their weight allowance to go into a communal pot so that these items can be gotten. Also, if anyone has extra weight left over they could kick it in.

Just a thought.

[pisces74]

I suck at math so I'll go light, and submit to wards suggestions as to what to fill out my weight limit with.

myself, my wife and two dogs both spayed and neutered (sorry ASBs non negotiable they're family)

four pairs of wool pants\ jackets each

eight cotton shirts, 4 pairs of high riding boots each.

My replica 1860 black powder musket an 10 lbs of powder/ and about 500 caps, and ammo,with bayonett

365 days worth of hardtack

30 days worth of beef jerky

canteens (4)

couple of bowie knives, a machete, an ax, a 10 pound sledge, small swiss army knife, a bow saw, a pole saw,

field glasses

50 foot rope

2 rubberized ponchos

My tent kit (wall tent)

small water purifer kit with 10 filter changeouts

a first aid kit.

I've got a collection of field guides for flora, fauna, animals, insects, and astronomy, I'd probably bring those which are relevent. figure about 10 to 20 pounds.

my nifty kinetic flashlight, and also my maglight.

A pretty generous array of sewing equipment, thread, yarn, needles and the like. a foot powered sewing machine. ( I think my wife has one laying about somewhere)

and a equally generous amount of no-think over the counter drugs (basicly what you'd find in a medicine chest, I don't want to play doctor ;))

about 20 pounds of blank paper, and 1 box of pencils, and ball pont pens, and a box of doodle markers.

[Shadestorm]

Update to my list, I had extra room and a few books won't hurt.

Waterproof cover of: Opium for the Masses: A Practical Guide to Growing Poppies and Making Opium by Jim Hogshire, Hydroponic Heroin: How to Grow Opium Poppies Without Soil by Robert N. Bunch, and Marijuana Horticulture: the Outdoor Medical Grower’s Bible by Jorge Cervantes.

I'd also like to bring a bundle of six sturdy hoes.

[Ward]

I suck at math so I'll go light, and submit to wards suggestions as to what to fill out my weight limit with.

myself, my wife and two dogs both spayed and neutered (sorry ASBs non negotiable they're family)

four pairs of wool pants\ jackets each

eight cotton shirts, 4 pairs of high riding boots each.

My replica 1860 black powder musket an 10 lbs of powder/ and about 500 caps, and ammo,with bayonett

365 days worth of hardtack

30 days worth of beef jerky

canteens (4)

couple of bowie knives, a machete, an ax, a 10 pound sledge, small swiss army knife, a bow saw, a pole saw,

field glasses

50 foot rope

2 rubberized ponchos

My tent kit (wall tent)

small water purifer kit with 10 filter changeouts

a first aid kit.

I've got a collection of field guides for flora, fauna, animals, insects, and astronomy, I'd probably bring those which are relevent. figure about 10 to 20 pounds.

my nifty kinetic flashlight, and also my maglight.

A pretty generous array of sewing equipment, thread, yarn, needles and the like. a foot powered sewing machine. ( I think my wife has one laying about somewhere)

and a equally generous amount of no-think over the counter drugs (basicly what you'd find in a medicine chest, I don't want to play doctor ;))


Well make that 3000 more caps . and also go with the flint lock hawkins and 50 lbs of powder . and molds for the rounds and 80 lbs of lead .

How about taking a cow and a goat as your animals .

And a wagon at about 400lbs weight and the tackle for a team to pull it .
Also bring the tool box I have listed at 80 lbs . and a set of the hand tools for working in the fields with . And you bring the 100 lbs of coffiee you and your wife can use our washmashine any time you need it .
Also bring your sadle and gear for riding . The rest of the weight is divied in Flour , Beans , and 40 lbs of pennut butter.

[Ward]

Iteams need by the comunity that some of the NPC could take .

plows 100 lbs each at less 50 more if we are at 5000 people we could use at less 1000 more .
Windmills water pumps 300 lbs at less 30 if we end up with 5000 people then at less 300

Modren wagons at less 100 at 400lbs each Just to move are stuff .

5 tons of Iron to make ideams out of .

Wood burning Kitchen stoves at 300 lbs each

barbwhire fencing at less 20 miles worth .

Black smith shops at less 2 and as many as 20 for the large group.

2 or 3 4lb cannons and shot for them . Blackpowder .

[pisces74]

I suck at math so I'll go light, and submit to wards suggestions as to what to fill out my weight limit with.

myself, my wife and two dogs both spayed and neutered (sorry ASBs non negotiable they're family)

four pairs of wool pants\ jackets each

eight cotton shirts, 4 pairs of high riding boots each.

My replica 1860 black powder musket an 100 lbs of powder/ and about 5000 caps, and ammo,with bayonett

365 days worth of hardtack

30 days worth of beef jerky

canteens (4)

couple of bowie knives, a machete, an ax, a 10 pound sledge, small swiss army knife, a bow saw, a pole saw,

field glasses

50 foot rope

2 rubberized ponchos

My tent kit (wall tent)

small water purifer kit with 10 filter changeouts

a first aid kit.

I've got a collection of field guides for flora, fauna, animals, insects, and astronomy, I'd probably bring those which are relevent. figure about 10 to 20 pounds.

my nifty kinetic flashlight, and also my maglight.

A pretty generous array of sewing equipment, thread, yarn, needles and the like. a foot powered sewing machine. ( I think my wife has one laying about somewhere)

and a equally generous amount of no-think over the counter drugs (basicly what you'd find in a medicine chest, I don't want to play doctor ;))

about 20 pounds of blank paper, and 1 box of pencils, and ball pont pens, and a box of doodle markers.

And a wheelbarrel at about 100lbs weight. Also bring the tool box I have listed at 80 lbs . and a set of the hand tools for working in the fields with . And you bring the 100 lbs of coffee you and your wife can use our washmashine any time you need it . Also bring your saddle and gear for riding . The rest of the weight is divied in Flour , Beans , Tea, Sugar, and 40 lbs of pennut butter.
Updated my list, staying with the rifle because I don't like slow dancing with Grizzlies :) and keeping my two animals as my dogs because well they're my dogs and I've already got them trained and emotional attachments. other then that this is my updated list. We have a doctor on board? or anybody that can tan hides?

[NapoleonXIV]

Two small and very durable laptop computers, with a 250 DVD library of all aspects of how to make everything, 4 batteries and small hydroelectric generator, 60lbs

Laboratory glassware and EQ necessary to make smokeless powder. I don't really know how much this will be but am thinking about 200lbs

A still to make alcohol to heat the lab processes. 50 lbs

Vaccines for all modern diseases I am likely to carry. Antibiotics 100lbs

3 tents. One to live in. one for the info center. one for the smokeless powder lab

50 M16's. The rest of the weight in ammo.

[Ward]

Updated my list, staying with the rifle because I don't like slow dancing with Grizzlies :) and keeping my two animals as my dogs because well they're my dogs and I've already got them trained and emotional attachments. other then that this is my updated list. We have a doctor on board? or anybody that can tan hides?



Yes I have tan a few hides in my day both pelts and kids :D

[Ward]

Two small and very durable laptop computers, with a 250 DVD library of all aspects of how to make everything, 4 batteries and small hydroelectric generator, 60lbs

Laboratory glassware and EQ necessary to make smokeless powder. I don't really know how much this will be but am thinking about 200lbs

A still to make alcohol to heat the lab processes. 50 lbs

Vaccines for all modern diseases I am likely to carry. Antibiotics 100lbs

3 tents. One to live in. one for the info center. one for the smokeless powder lab

50 M16's. The rest of the weight in ammo.



Just a question for you what are you going to eat .

[Ward]

Well I'm bring a Bull for my large animal and a female Goat.
Totol weight I can Bring is 2800lbs now goes up to 2900 lbs

My wife will be with me as will be my 2 aduilt sons and there Wifes , My married daughter and her husban , my 16 year old son a 14 year old grand daughter , 8 year old Grand daughter , 7 year old Grandson , 6 year old grand daughter , 5 year old Grand son , 2,1/2 year old Granddaughter . and 1 year old grand son.
Add a wife for my 16 year old son ,
600 lbs of Food in Caning jars 50lbs worth of Rubbergaskets for them.
100 lbs of Flour in plastic Bins , 100 lbs of of Beens , 100lbs of spices
80 lbs of yeast/bake sodal/way , 20lbs of lifeboat chocolate
2 x foot power sawing machines 90 lbs together
1 plow 100 lbs
1 manual Washing machine 47lbs
4x push scythes 15lbs each 60 lbs
1x 1900 carpiter chest of tools 80 lbs
1x tent 105 lbs this tent is 20x 12 with floor and able to take a wood stove in it .
1 packers wood stove 45 lbs with pipes to go out through the tent.
11x Covered cots 5 lbs each 55 lbs
a hand powered seed drill 12 lbs
sausage stuffer 25lbs
2 meat Glinders 10 lbs each
6 shovels 3 lbs each 18lbs 6 holes 3 lbs each 18 lbs , 6x post hoe digers 3 lbs each 18lbs , 6 x picks 6 lbs each 36lbs , 6x pitch forks 3 lbs each 18lbs.
10 x Axes 3 lbs each 30lbs , 6ft two men saws x 2 5 lbs each 10 lbs ,
200 lbs of seeds ,
4x wheel barows . 15lbs each 60lbs
8 54 cal hawkings rifles 6 lbs each 48lbs 100 lbs of powder 50 lbs of shot.
12 x blackhawk 357 pistols 4lbs each 48 lbs 50 lbs of rounds (1250) - 9 pistols 36 lbs add Books ( foxfire , scouting books and story books )
12 x 22 rifles 3 lbs each 36lbs and 74 lbs of 22 rounds (8500)
100 lbs of pots and pans and dishs.
100 lbs of soaps , 20 lbs of wax , 20 lbs of candle holders , 10lbso of candles.
20 lbs of sewing supply , and 80 lbs of cloth .
60 lbs of bedding .
6x grub hoe 6lbs eash 36lbs
4 x springfield 1903 9lbs each 36lbs 99lbs of ammo (1500)
50lbs of screws,50lbs of nails. Dropping 30 lbs of screw for 30 lbs chicken feed
6x sapers 3lbs eash 18lbs
50lbs 3/4 in coper pipe 20lbs of fittigs.Dropping for womens iteams
88lbs of cothing


What every Adult in my party will have on them all 10 of them scince my 16 year old son an adult and his wife
Tactical Radio, Heavy Duty Space Blanket, 2 large Heavy Duty Trash Bags , 1 Light weight OD Rain Poncho, 1 water filter stra , 1 personal First aid Kit,
1 snall collapsable water Bucket ,1 water storage Blader. 1 Plastic Canteen & Canteen Cup, 1 Pair of BDU pants , 1 OD t-shirt, 1 Wcommado Wool sweater, 2 Pair hiking socks , 1 ball cap, 1 light wind Beacker, 1 Pair of Black leather Gloves w/Liners , 4 Packs lifeboat Matches (25 Each ) 1 Feild Cooker and 3 Boxes (25 each ) Fuel Tablets , 1 Set Knife , Fork , Spoon , 1 Folding pocket knife , 1 Watch wind up , 1 wetstone , 20 yards Paracord , 1 Notepad w/pen & pencil ,1 Solor crank Flashlight , 1 Folded Topographical Map of the rea, 1 Compass , 20 sheets Toilet paper in plastic Bag 2 MREs , 1 set of Boots , a set of webgear , 1 x 357 pistol and hoster , 20 rounds of .357 ammo , 2 x chickens live each . weight 40 lbs.


People you might want to have this for your 40lbs that you are come over in . Rember every thing else is on skids waiting for you ,

[Glen]

Ok People we are ready to start the Game


The ASB are leting us take 1 Large Animal and 1 med Animal Per member of the Board .

We are allowed 1,200 Lbs for the large Animal . And 100 lbs for everyone who is coming over with us . We are also alowed 40Lbs for each Aduilt that comes along that they can carry besides this is clothing and any small animals we want to carry plus any other ideams we want to carry .

Rember if you live at home your parents and siblings are comeing along also.
If you have children and Grand children they are comeing also .

If you live alone you may bring a clone of any one member of the opposit sex with you . That is is you are over 18 years old .

So start listing what you and your family group will bring and who you are bring with you .

Rember the ASB Will move what we list on skids to are site . But they will mark are names on are skids so we can only unload are own skids .

Well, I'm not ready to make my final selections yet, but some preliminaries.

I have a family of four, myself, my wife, and two children (5.5 and 2.5 years old).

I will be the doctor of the group, since I am a doctor. I will be bringing a few books along, references for medicine, surgery, pharmacology, herbology, lab techniques, etc (full list later). I will also be bringing along a selection of seeds/pods/cuttings for medicinal plants not native to the San Francisco bay area. We should probably take over the Central Valley of California, good land there IIRC. Unfortunately, books are quite heavy...

A good thing about starting off in North America is that we are isolated from most of the diseases of the time, making our early expansion easier. This coupled with simple hygeine, sanitation, and antisepsis will give us a much lower death rate than anyone else in this world, and we will grow rapidly.

I'd suggest we enforce a strict quarantine period for the first two months of our arrival. This will give plenty of time for any colds or flus we have to work their way through the community. After that, we would not pose as much of a threat to the Native American world in terms of plagues. And of course, we have no small pox.

Quite frankly, we should avoid the Old World for quite a while. We have two continents and the Carribean to expand into with relative ease. To go to the old world with its larger population and more organized societies would be to possibly court trouble. At least until we are finished with our expansion through the continent.

I think we should form a single government from the get-go. Having a bunch of AH.commers starting their own little fiefdoms is a recipe for disaster.

Just some ideas off the cuff....

[jolo]

Well, I'm not ready to make my final selections yet, but some preliminaries.

I have a family of four, myself, my wife, and two children (5.5 and 2.5 years old).

I will be the doctor of the group, since I am a doctor. I will be bringing a few books along, references for medicine, surgery, pharmacology, herbology, lab techniques, etc (full list later). I will also be bringing along a selection of seeds/pods/cuttings for medicinal plants not native to the San Francisco bay area. We should probably take over the Central Valley of California, good land there IIRC. Unfortunately, books are quite heavy...

A good thing about starting off in North America is that we are isolated from most of the diseases of the time, making our early expansion easier. This coupled with simple hygeine, sanitation, and antisepsis will give us a much lower death rate than anyone else in this world, and we will grow rapidly.

I'd suggest we enforce a strict quarantine period for the first two months of our arrival. This will give plenty of time for any colds or flus we have to work their way through the community. After that, we would not pose as much of a threat to the Native American world in terms of plagues. And of course, we have no small pox.

Quite frankly, we should avoid the Old World for quite a while. We have two continents and the Carribean to expand into with relative ease. To go to the old world with its larger population and more organized societies would be to possibly court trouble. At least until we are finished with our expansion through the continent.

I think we should form a single government from the get-go. Having a bunch of AH.commers starting their own little fiefdoms is a recipe for disaster.

Just some ideas off the cuff....

I'd nearly fully agree except that I find it difficult to impose a quarantine on us. It might even cause unnecessary hostilities against us. I'd prefer some kind of vaccination program for the local tribes.

[Ward]

For TBear

Hi my Dad made me join but here is my list of things .

Well I will take a milk cow , and a Goat And my girlfriend .

Iteams taken
1 wagon 400lb 100 lbs worth of tack for it .
1 Windmill 300lbs
200 lbs of flour.
50lbs of Salt
100 lbs of surgar
30 lbs of Games
30 lbs of chalk
40 lbs of slate boards
150 lbs of oil

We will also have what my dad said we would wear and carry .

[Glen]

I'd nearly fully agree except that I find it difficult to impose a quarantine on us. It might even cause unnecessary hostilities against us. I'd prefer some kind of vaccination program for the local tribes.

Thanks to the miracle of modern vaccination, most of us aren't carrying any diseases that they would need to be vaccinated against except influenzae and colds (pretty mild for us, but I wouldn't risk it on naive populations).

Unfortunately, vaccination for influenzae is not perfect, and in this population that might not be good enough (plus, exactly how long do you think it would take to convince the locals to allow you to vaccinate them? By that time, flu and colds might be sweeping through the population).

If we're diligent, and just practice strict hand washing and face masks (for sneezes) for those showing symptoms, we could probably shorten that to one month of general isolation. Maybe have a few people who are cleared of symptoms or sick contacts before the trip over, who are willing to stay on our perimeter as 'greeters' for any locals (or should we start calling them 'downtimers'?).

[NapoleonXIV]

Just a question for you what are you going to eat .
:o Two weeks worth of MRE for two

After that, the Indians should be providing

[jolo]

Thanks to the miracle of modern vaccination, most of us aren't carrying any diseases that they would need to be vaccinated against except influenzae and colds (pretty mild for us, but I wouldn't risk it on naive populations).

Unfortunately, vaccination for influenzae is not perfect, and in this population that might not be good enough (plus, exactly how long do you think it would take to convince the locals to allow you to vaccinate them? By that time, flu and colds might be sweeping through the population).

If we're diligent, and just practice strict hand washing and face masks (for sneezes) for those showing symptoms, we could probably shorten that to one month of general isolation. Maybe have a few people who are cleared of symptoms or sick contacts before the trip over, who are willing to stay on our perimeter as 'greeters' for any locals (or should we start calling them 'downtimers'?).

Some vaccination can be done without shots. If shots are unavoidable, we might do it like field doctors: Go out to them, help them with some of their diseases, and convince them of vaccination - some of us might take shots even if they don't need it, to lead with an example.

If only the surrounding tribes are vaccinated, the problem is solved.

Hygiene would still be good. But a virus usually remains in a person forever.

[Glen]

Some vaccination can be done without shots. If shots are unavoidable, we might do it like field doctors: Go out to them, help them with some of their diseases, and convince them of vaccination - some of us might take shots even if they don't need it, to lead with an example.

If only the surrounding tribes are vaccinated, the problem is solved.

Hygiene would still be good. But a virus usually remains in a person forever.


You're still risking spreading disease faster than you can vaccinate. You need to specify which vaccines you are talking about. Quite frankly, the only one you really need to bring at this point are flu shots, pneumovax, and chicken pox, at least for initial vaccination.

Bottom line, it would be safer to just keep our distance for a month than to try and outpace disease. Those people are not stupid...they aren't going to trust someone who can't speak to them, doesn't look like anyone they've ever met, to stick foreign substances into their bodies. Would you?

It will take months to build communications and trust to the level for what you are suggesting, and that's a best case scenario.

As for viruses staying in the body forever...yes, some do. But you aren't contagious for all your life with most of those (though shingles is reactivated chicken pox and thus can infect new people).

We probably also need small pox vaccinations for ourselves, but I would keep it in storage until we eventually decide to make contact with the old world. There is a mortality rate with smallpox vaccination, so it is not something to take lightly.

[Ward]

Well I'm bring a Bull for my large animal and a female Goat.
Totol weight I can Bring is 2800lbs

My wife will be with me as will be my 2 aduilt sons and there Wifes , My married daughter and her husban , my 16 year old son a 14 year old grand daughter , 8 year old Grand daughter , 7 year old Grandson , 6 year old grand daughter , 5 year old Grand son , 2,1/2 year old Granddaughter . and 1 year old grand son.

600 lbs of Food in Caning jars 50lbs worth of Rubbergaskets for them.
100 lbs of Flour in plastic Bins , 100 lbs of of Beens , 100lbs of spices
2 x foot power sawing machines 90 lbs together
1 plow 100 lbs
1 manual Washing machine 47lbs
4x push scythes 15lbs each 60 lbs
1x 1900 carpiter chest of tools 80 lbs
1x tent 105 lbs this tent is 20x 12 with floor and able to take a wood stove in it .
1 packers wood stove 45 lbs with pipes to go out through the tent.
11x Covered cots 5 lbs each 55 lbs
a hand powered seed drill 12 lbs
sausage stuffer 25lbs
2 meat Glinders 10 lbs each
6 shovels 3 lbs each 18lbs 6 holes 3 lbs each 18 lbs , 6x post hoe digers 3 lbs each 18lbs , 6 x picks 6 lbs each 36lbs , 6x pitch forks 3 lbs each 18lbs.
10 x Axes 3 lbs each 30lbs , 6ft two men saws x 2 5 lbs each 10 lbs ,
200 lbs of seeds ,
4x wheel barows . 15lbs each 60lbs
8 54 cal hawkings rifles 6 lbs each 48lbs 100 lbs of powder 50 lbs of shot.
12 x blackhawk 357 pistols 4lbs each 48 lbs 50 lbs of rounds (1250)
12 x 22 rifles 3 lbs each 36lbs and 74 lbs of 22 rounds (8500)
100 lbs of pots and pans and dishs.
100 lbs of soaps , 20 lbs of wax , 20 lbs of candle holders , 10lbso of candles.
20 lbs of sewing supply , and 80 lbs of cloth .
60 lbs of bedding .
6x grub hoe 6lbs eash 36lbs
4 x springfield 1903 9lbs each 36lbs 99lbs of ammo (1500)
50lbs of screws,50lbs of nails.
6x sabers 3lbs eash 18lbs
70 lbs of women supplys
88lbs of cothing



Which we had a spell checker

[Dave Howery]

ok, Dr. Glenn, would we really be able to prevent cold and flu germs from breaking out amongst the natives? What happens when they come in contact regularly with our domestic animals? Isn't this how a lot of diseases start?

[Darkest]

I like the idea of a quarantine period, so that we can keep the Native Americans as healthy as possible. I don't want to go off killing millions of people.

However, we'll have to contain Shadestorm and his group from leaving soon, which may be hard.

[Ward]

I like the idea of a quarantine period, so that we can keep the Native Americans as healthy as possible. I don't want to go off killing millions of people.

However, we'll have to contain Shadestorm and his group from leaving soon, which may be hard.


How are you going to stop him . are you going to shoot him . I'm not he is willing to leave his extra gear for us .

[Shadestorm]

Well I'll just be sure to load my rifle before we warp, right? I'm taking off the second this thing starts, so you'd better be quick.

[Dave Howery]

let him go. If he honestly thinks he can become a god-emperor among the natives, he'll be sadly (and fatally) disillusioned. Although, with him out of the quarantine, he'll likely infect the natives and start off the big dying time... that'll make them love him even more...
plus, if he's taking off 'the second this thing starts', he'll have to leave most of his gear behind, being limited to whatever he can carry in his saddlebags...

[Shadestorm]

My list says: All strapped to my horse. So doesn't it come prewrapped onto my horse? I traveled light so I could do this.

[Glen]

ok, Dr. Glenn, would we really be able to prevent cold and flu germs from breaking out amongst the natives? What happens when they come in contact regularly with our domestic animals? Isn't this how a lot of diseases start?

Birds and Pigs serve as reservoirs for new strains of influenzae, but they take time to make the transition.

Maybe if we specify that we are getting are animals from free range, organic farms in the US, this would be less of a problem (most of the reservoir are in asia, and this form of farming is the least likely to have a large amount of disease).

Also, if the animals are kept in quarantine for a couple months from the natives, then we should be in good shape.

Looks like domesticated animals (except dogs) are not in use in the San Francisco area at the time of our arrival, so it should be easy to keep them from the animals initially. Once they realize some of their value, that's a different matter...

[Glen]

My list says: All strapped to my horse. So doesn't it come prewrapped onto my horse? I traveled light so I could do this.


Shadestorm, are you honestly telling us, that if you, YOU mind you, not some character you created, were in this situation, you would just go off and risk starting a pandemic that could kill millions, when waiting like, a month, could make a significant difference?

Tell me, do you normally engage in activities you know could kill so many in your real life?

At the very least, stay in isolation for a week. If you don't have any symptoms of cold/flu by that time, then you're probably clear.

[pisces74]

Theres now a chat thread for this.

[Shadestorm]

Yes, you're right. I'm sure I can find a cave somewhere away from you guys where I'll hang out for a while; getting to know my new celebrity wife. I'll need some more food, so I'm going to take back 150 lbs. of my contribution to you guys.

- 25 lbs. MRE's, 25 lbs. of Pinnole, in a plastic heavy-duty sack.
- 6 handcuffs and keys for them.
- 2 snow-weather, waterproof hiking backpacks.
- 5 more large quilts
- 3 more 30ft. waterproof tarps

I'm feeling pity for my horse... but I guess they can carry 1000 lbs. so he should be able to trot atleast. I'm definetly not going to be able to gallop off into the sunset.

[Grimm Reaper]

Don't forget to make certain that all the animals are impregnated females before you leave!

Is there any horse more effective at large loads than a Clydesdale? If so, I take that one instead. Small animal will be a nice sow expecting the litter in about two week's time(jumpstart in action).

Small animals will be my loyal cat and some poultry(half dozen chickens ready to start laying).

Darn. My sister is visiting so she comes along, as well as...wait a second. Someone already picked Miranda Otto?!?:mad:

Now I have to rethink my clone selection.

I will certainly include as many books as possible from Dan Forester's collection in Lucifer's Hammer.

Perhaps a few crossbows should come along, to save on gunpowder?

Better yet, a book on making gunpowder and the necessary tools, but bring only sulphur and saltpeter. We can make our own charcoal AND it proves to us early that we can create industry on a moderate scale.

All the tools I need to make candles and soap and such, my little niche in the SCA.:D So we can cut back on some of those items.

Hmm, how about we each pick one rare and useful plant, bring materials on cultivating it AND a half dozen started in pots(which we can reuse once the plants are replanted)?

Seeds, of course. And...

[Dave Howery]

actually, your sister wouldn't be going... it's only you, your wife/S.O., and dependent children... which it seems you don't have any... hey, take a Miranda clone if you want.. we're going to have some duplication anyway... just remember, once you got her, you're devoted to her, and vice versa... the ASBs make it so... :)

[Bulgaroktonos]

In order to explain some of the weird things that will appear on my list, it is a result of my requirement to protect myself against any plausible scenario. Thus, the presence of a gladius and scutum can be explained by the fact that I am not going to trust the natives, and if I can't reload quickly enough or am unable to reach my weapon, a shield and sword will go a long way towards keeping me alive.

Domestic/Pet: Tamed wolf. As opposed to a fully domesticated dog, my dog is much less likely to have a serious impact upon the local wildlife, few problems adapting to different foods, and will make a good hunting companion.

Draft Animal: Destrider horse. More or less a big ass warhorse, now non-existent. Capable of drafting, large loads, and excellent speed. All around good horse to have.

Arms:

M40A3- For very long range.

1903 No.4 Mk.1 (T)- Short-Medium Range

Colt .45 ACP 1911A1.
HK .40 S&W P2000
Gladius

Holland and Holland over-and-under shotgun

Food:
Canned Food out the Ass. 24oz cans Roughly 350lbs which translates to nearly a can a day, to supplement any food shortage.

Several jars of basic vitamins.

Various spices (single jars for special occassions) 2lbs

40lb bag of salt

20lb bag of sugar

Grape vine in pot 3lbs(?)

5 bottles of Johnny Walker Black Label
5 bottles of Johnny Walker Green Label
5 bottles of Johnny Walker Gold Label
5 bottles of Johnny Walker Blue Label

Tools, Etc.:

2x Axes (plastic handles)
Basic tool box
Anvil (252 lb)
Smithing Hammers and 1 set of tongs (provided with iron, a base set of only a few tools is required in order to make the full set)
1 Haligan/Hooligan tool (All purpose tool)
30 ft of nylon rope

Specific Clothing/Miscellaneous extraneous items:

Russian/Soviet Great Coat
Scutum
My Wehrmacht Helmet (sentimental value)
Cleaning kit (weapons)
First Aid Kit
Bullhorn

[General_Paul]

[QUOTE=General_Paul]General_Paul's list:

Large Animal: Mustang Horse
Medium Animal: Labrador Retriever (black)

Cart- Horse drawn cart

Family to be taken: None
Women to be taken: None. I don't need the companionship.

Items to carry: Mauser K-98 bolt action rifle.
500 rounds for Mauser
Colt 1911 Semi-Autmatic
10 clips and 150 rounds

Food- 200 lbs. worth of food.

Misc. Items-

Saddle for the Horse
Blanket
Axe- two handed for chopping down small-medium trees, and one handed for chopping wood
Hunting Knife
Samurai Sword- Long and Short sword
Books- hard decision, but I'd choose 15 hardbacks, including the entire set of Churchill's History of the English Speaking peoples, and his history of the second world war, and 30 paperbacks, including smaller novellas, and larger paperbacks. And of course a copy fo the book "How Things Work", that thing has a diagram of EVERYTHING.
Seeds- 30 lbs. worth of seeds.
Sleeping bag
Pup tent
Flint
20 boxes of matches
50 bic lighters
Laptop Computer- 4 lbs.
Power Generator- Small- 50 lbs.
Gasoline- 10 gallons
Laptop Batteries- 20, 20 hour laptop batteries- 50 lbs.
Saxophone- Alto- 7 lbs.
20 boxes of alto sax reeds weighing in at under .5 lbs per box
Translation book- Native American languages of the West Coast
School books- Basic school books from 1-5 grade levels- 3 per grade level
Guitar
Violin
Oil Drum- Empty
Tide Flakes
Fabric Softner
Diesel Fuel- 5 gallons (take a wild guess at why I'm bringing the tide flakes and fabric softner)

I think that should match about what I need, if I'm over, please point it out.

[Glen]

We need lathes, if we can get them.

And we need to be able to make stainless steel...vital for the chemical industry.

Pyrex would be nice, too. I think we can swing that...

[Forum Lurker]

I'm bringing a lathe, but I don't think we can get either stainless steel or pyrex. Odd as it sounds, our best bet for things like surgical tools (when ours get irreperably damaged) is going to be copper; it (and sulfur, incidentally) are available in the region, as I recall, and tarnishing is slow, not structurally damaging, and not a significant source of infection (as rust is for tetanus).

[Glen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalworking

We need as many of these tools as we can get.

[Glen]

I'm bringing a lathe, but I don't think we can get either stainless steel or pyrex. Odd as it sounds, our best bet for things like surgical tools (when ours get irreperably damaged) is going to be copper; it (and sulfur, incidentally) are available in the region, as I recall, and tarnishing is slow, not structurally damaging, and not a significant source of infection (as rust is for tetanus).

Good points...but it wasn't surgical tools I was thinking of, but chemical/pharmaceutical mass production and storage. Thats where it will be valuable.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Good points...but it wasn't surgical tools I was thinking of, but chemical/pharmaceutical mass production and storage. Thats where it will be valuable.

Unless we have resident blacksmiths or serious metal workers, I'm willing to work at that. I've always been fascinated by it.

[Glen]

Need Chromium for stainless steel

Need Boron for pyrex

Apparently, we're not TOO far from boron, we can eventually find it in Death Valley...

http://www.borax.com/

Chromium is going to be a lot harder...so far, the closest I've found is on the Maryland-Pennsylvania border...

[Flocculencio]

let him go. If he honestly thinks he can become a god-emperor among the natives, he'll be sadly (and fatally) disillusioned. Although, with him out of the quarantine, he'll likely infect the natives and start off the big dying time... that'll make them love him even more...
plus, if he's taking off 'the second this thing starts', he'll have to leave most of his gear behind, being limited to whatever he can carry in his saddlebags...

Seconded again. If he survives and somehow manages to get a disaffected band of natives on his side he could be an inconvenience though.

I'm taking whatever anyone else says I should reserving a few kilos for a complete Shakespeare, Milton's Paradise Lost, two translations of Beowulf and a Complete Chaucer plus some Kipling, Wilde and Yeats, say, 5 kilos of books in total.

I'm not leaving the glories of English Literature behind! It doesn't weigh much and it's beyond price.

And the lance heads if we're going low-tech :D

[Forum Lurker]

Good points...but it wasn't surgical tools I was thinking of, but chemical/pharmaceutical mass production and storage. Thats where it will be valuable.
I think copper does well for most of this, too. Also, we're not going to have many chemicals/pharmaceuticals to store; our initial limit will be aspirin and alcohol.

[Glen]

I think copper does well for most of this, too. Also, we're not going to have many chemicals/pharmaceuticals to store; our initial limit will be aspirin and alcohol.

I'm not talking about storing, FL...I'm talking about making...

We're not going to be able to take enough of anything to make much of a difference in the long run.

We have to take the capacity to make things, that is the most vital thing.

We need knowledge and tools to start the recreation of civilization.

[jolo]

I think copper does well for most of this, too. Also, we're not going to have many chemicals/pharmaceuticals to store; our initial limit will be aspirin and alcohol.

Antibiotics should be possible to produce. The same is true for different kinds of vaccines and antitoxins. All depends upon how much time we can spare for medicine.

I suppose at the beginning, our doctors will be "barefoot-doctors" who even have to do some gardening to survive.

[Dave Howery]

at the very beginning, I think everyone's either going to be working on farming/land clearing or lumber/building... nothing else is as urgent as these two..

[Ward]

Antibiotics should be possible to produce. The same is true for different kinds of vaccines and antitoxins. All depends upon how much time we can spare for medicine.

I suppose at the beginning, our doctors will be "barefoot-doctors" who even have to do some gardening to survive.


I'm not going to let Glen hurt his hands , my family will help him in gardening and building his house .

[Glen]

Antibiotics should be possible to produce. The same is true for different kinds of vaccines and antitoxins. All depends upon how much time we can spare for medicine.

We spare as much as it takes. It would be the worst travesty to let medical knowledge slip from this brave new world.

I know...we've got to eat, first. However, I really do think we could get enough seafood to probably feed our numbers for a time. Not that we shouldn't be planting, but there are priorities and then there are priorities.

Antibiotics...we don't want to lose those, definitely.

I suppose at the beginning, our doctors will be "barefoot-doctors" who even have to do some gardening to survive.

Well, everyone is going to be gardening.

However, do you want your physicians just growing food, or would you rather have them working gardens of medicinals?

I'd say we can afford to have three medical professionals...and can afford no less (need some redundancy for possible mortality).

Of course, we're all going to be in the fields come harvest time...

[Ward]

We spare as much as it takes. It would be the worst travesty to let medical knowledge slip from this brave new world.

I know...we've got to eat, first. However, I really do think we could get enough seafood to probably feed our numbers for a time. Not that we shouldn't be planting, but there are priorities and then there are priorities.

Antibiotics...we don't want to lose those, definitely.



Well, everyone is going to be gardening.

However, do you want your physicians just growing food, or would you rather have them working gardens of medicinals?

I'd say we can afford to have three medical professionals...and can afford no less (need some redundancy for possible mortality).

Of course, we're all going to be in the fields come harvest time...


No they will not be there they will be working aid stations around the fields .
There will be enough injuries for them to take care of .

[NapoleonXIV]

Two small and very durable laptop computers, with a 250 DVD library of all aspects of how to make everything, 4 batteries and small hydroelectric generator, 60lbs

Laboratory glassware and EQ necessary to make smokeless powder. I don't really know how much this will be but am thinking about 200lbs

A still to make alcohol to heat the lab processes. 50 lbs

Vaccines for all modern diseases I am likely to carry. Antibiotics 100lbs

3 tents. One to live in. one for the info center. one for the smokeless powder lab

50 M16's. The rest of the weight in ammo.

Change M16's to AK-74's. Inadvertent typo

[Glen]

No they will not be there they will be working aid stations around the fields .
There will be enough injuries for them to take care of .

Ooops, you're right, of course.

Well, so much for that...looks like I'm going to be on call 24/7/52...:eek:

[Forum Lurker]

8/24/7, if you can train up a couple apprentices.

[Glen]

8/24/7, if you can train up a couple apprentices.

Well, we'll definitely work on that...

[jolo]

I'll add a few fishing nets and other fishing equipment, a few masks against dust, and some light-weight bartering articles to the list - plastic jewellery and the likes. As there's no cost limit, a few real jewels might also be useful. Diamonds might be really useful to produce glass cutters, heavy duty drills, and so on. An elektric shocker would be useful to get people in line without killing them. The same is true for a push stick. A plastic shield would have advantages against arrows, stones, and so on.

Instead of a lightweight horse cart, I'll take a light weight boat trailer and a small sailing boat, plus the necessary equipment and additional sails. The boat trailer will also be good to move logs until better means are available. The winch will be useful for lots of things.

[SionEwig]

I'm bringing a lathe, but I don't think we can get either stainless steel or pyrex. Odd as it sounds, our best bet for things like surgical tools (when ours get irreperably damaged) is going to be copper; it (and sulfur, incidentally) are available in the region, as I recall, and tarnishing is slow, not structurally damaging, and not a significant source of infection (as rust is for tetanus).

The closest Sulfur deposit I have located is just NW of Death Valley National Park. The stte of California does list sulfur just north of the Bay area in a couple of their Mineral Yearbooks of the mining industry of the state, but that is associated with and recovered from an oil deposit, something that is not easily available to us.

[SionEwig]

Need Chromium for stainless steel

Need Boron for pyrex

Apparently, we're not TOO far from boron, we can eventually find it in Death Valley...

http://www.borax.com/

Chromium is going to be a lot harder...so far, the closest I've found is on the Maryland-Pennsylvania border...

40 mule team :D

Chromite and other chrome ores (and some other useful things) are found not too far south of us between the towns of Bitterwater and Coalinga and several other spots in the state.

Anything else you want?

[Matt]

I just want to make a suggestion about the modern weaponery.

The AR-5 .22 cal rifle should be taken with us. At least 100, and as much ammo as possible. This would be our primary weapon for just about every day use.

We don't need M16s or AK47s, but I think Lee-Enfield rifles or something similar would do nicely.

Ammo should be standardized to at most 3 types of rounds. the light .22 round is essential, and I think the .303 would do fine for the rifles. Since we're mostly Americans I think we can agree on .45 ACP for pistols :p

[Norbert]

I just want to make a suggestion about the modern weaponery.

The AR-5 .22 cal rifle should be taken with us. At least 100, and as much ammo as possible. This would be our primary weapon for just about every day use.

We don't need M16s or AK47s, but I think Lee-Enfield rifles or something similar would do nicely.

Ammo should be standardized to at most 3 types of rounds. the light .22 round is essential, and I think the .303 would do fine for the rifles. Since we're mostly Americans I think we can agree on .45 ACP for pistols :p

1: 30-06 would be a better calibre than a .303
2: Many people can not handle the recoil of the .45. A .357 revolver would be a better choice, easier to handle, and less problems than a magazine fed weapon (What do you do when the magazine spring gets weak or breaks? Go to the gun-shop to buy a new magazine?)
3: I approve of the 22 long rifle, though I would sugget the bolt action .22
4: I would also suggest the addition of 16 Gauge shotguns, Good for hunting, and the smaller people (women and larger kids) can handle them. Take a mix of slug and bird shot. If some natives are pesky and you do not want to out-right kill them, bird shot will dampen their sprit quickly.
5: I would also suggest that you and WeaponM should take a BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle). It also uses the .30-06
6: Standardize rifles to the Springfield 1903 or the M1 Garand?

[Matt]

1: 30-06 would be a better calibre than a .303
2: Many people can not handle the recoil of the .45. A .357 revolver would be a better choice, easier to handle, and less problems than a magazine fed weapon (What do you do when the magazine spring gets weak or breaks? Go to the gun-shop to buy a new magazine?)
3: I approve of the 22 long rifle, though I would sugget the bolt action .22
4: I would also suggest the addition of 16 Gauge shotguns, Good for hunting, and the smaller people (women and larger kids) can handle them. Take a mix of slug and bird shot. If some natives are pesky and you do not want to out-right kill them, bird shot will dampen their sprit quickly.
5: I would also suggest that you and WeaponM should take a BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle). It also uses the .30-06
6: Standardize rifles to the Springfield 1903 or the M1 Garand?


I was going for the Lee-Enfield because of it's higher magizine capacity then the Springfield. How about the M1917 Lee-Enfield? It's in 30-06. I would much rather have a boltaction rifle, since it discourages waste.

Good point about the magazines on the 1911s. 357 it is. Same with the bolt action 22.

[Glen]

I was going for the Lee-Enfield because of it's higher magizine capacity then the Springfield. How about the M1917 Lee-Enfield? It's in 30-06. I would much rather have a boltaction rifle, since it discourages waste.

Good point about the magazines on the 1911s. 357 it is. Same with the bolt action 22.

So, .22, .357, 30-06 as our main calibres?

And a 16 guage for shotguns? Why not a 12 guage? The whole recoil issue again?

[Matt]

So, .22, .357, 30-06 as our main calibres?

And a 16 guage for shotguns? Why not a 12 guage? The whole recoil issue again?


Yeah, almost everyone well have a shotgun and a .22. We want the women and the older childern to be able to handle them, just in case.

[Norbert]

I was going for the Lee-Enfield because of it's higher magizine capacity then the Springfield. How about the M1917 Lee-Enfield? It's in 30-06. I would much rather have a boltaction rifle, since it discourages waste.

Good point about the magazines on the 1911s. 357 it is. Same with the bolt action 22.

Yep, M1917 Lee-Enfield sounds good to me!

Ward says his Springfield '03 were the Star series! (ie, Sniper Rifles, with the experience to use them!)

[SionEwig]

I was going for the Lee-Enfield because of it's higher magizine capacity then the Springfield. How about the M1917 Lee-Enfield? It's in 30-06. I would much rather have a boltaction rifle, since it discourages waste.

Good point about the magazines on the 1911s. 357 it is. Same with the bolt action 22.

The US Model 1917 Enfield rifle is NOT a Lee-Enfield in 30-06. Except for the caliber, it is the same as the British No. 3 Mark 1, sometimes called the Pattern 14. It has the same 5 round internal box magazine as the 03 and most military Mausers. It is much more similar to the US Model 1903 Springfield.

Something that might be worth consideration concerning the 22 rifles is going with the T/C Contender Carbines, single shot break opens and with the extra 357 barrel, weight total is 7 lbs. The advantage is the ability to get some real use out of the 357 ammunition rather than purely self defense.

[Bulgaroktonos]

I'm going with a No.4 Mk.1(T)

Incredibly reliable, durable, and generally more accurate the farther away you are.

Good all purpose rifle.

.30-06 is a good round, but I'm biased to the Lee Enfield.

[Othniel]

Heck since I said Consturtion and Repair would be my field I'll let you guys design my list. Heck Pyscho ruled I only get a wife since I'm over 18..oh well.

I'll take extra tools(shovels, axes, tillers), replacement parts (if we need them), dried foods such as beef jerkey and trail mix, two iceboxes, some notebooks with pens and pencils, my pocket knife, topographic maps of the area, city planning documents, an asb assembled collection of easseys on colonization and building societies, a 500 yard roll of plastic, carrying bags, and a ten man tent. Figure out how much that weighs, and If I got extra room assign me stuff.

[Psychomeltdown]

so I'll take
.22 rifle
30-06 hunting rifle
.357 revolver

about 3 boxes of ammo for each

I'll leave the Hawkins Rifle to those who know how to use it.

Though If I have some extra weight I'll also heft along some powder and shot.



BTW how much does a plow blade weight? just the blade, 50 lbs?

[Psychomeltdown]

Here's my list of items I'm bringing in. the Weights for them is pretty much just guessed and rough estimae. Hopefully they're not too off. Hopefully I've also brought enough things to ensure me and mine's survival.




PERSONAL PROPERTY


CLOTHING (per person)
4 tough pants
7 shirts (2 long sleeved)
2 boots
7 underwear
2 Hat
2 Jackets (light and heavy)
5 Gloves ( heavy work-gloves)
1 Rain-slicker/poncho
4 Sunglasses
20 Bandanas

120 lbs


BEDDING
2 Thermal sleeping bags
1 large sleeping mat
2 pillows
1 Two person tent

20 lbs


COOKING
2 Skillet
1 Pan
2 large pot
Utensils - forks, spoons, ladles, knives, etc.
4 Bowls
4 Cups
3 Canteen
1 Grilling Rack

50 lbs

MISC
2 box of candles
3 boxes waterproof matches
4 sewing kits
Twine - 3000 feet
Metal wire, steel - 100 ft.
Buckskin needles
3 large tarps
Fishing gear - for two people
Vitamins (C and others, 1 yr)
Zip lock bags - assorted sizes
Hallzone tablets
4 grooming kits
10 straight edge razors
1 set of horse tack
1 set of horse grooming kit
2 flashlights w/ extra batteries
1 flare-gun with extra flares
15 Flint and Strikers
10 lbs of paper
5 packets of pencils
1 flute (with case)
1 acoustic guitar (with case)
25 packets of extra guitar string
2 binders of musical lyrics
1 binder of board-game descriptions/rules
10 packages of hand-soap
3 boxes of clothing soap
5 large plastic storage containers
1 roll of quarters, dimes, nickels, pennies


330 lbs


TOOLS
2 shovels
2 axes
1 pickaxe
1 posthole digger
2 hammers
2 mallets
5 boxes assorted nails
2 sledgehammers
2 hand saw files
3 flat file
2 handsaw
1 two man crosscut saw
3 hatchets
3 chisels
3 gouges
1 hand drill and bits
25 All purpose knives
10 Skinning knives
10 whetstones
300 feet Rope, heavy nylon
4 binoculars
4 compasses
4 signal mirrors
15 axe heads
10 hammer heads
15 hatchet heads
1 25 feet tape measure

260 lbs


WEAPONRY
3 Bows (with bracers)
100 Arrows (with quivers)
Extra bow strings
4 Spears
2 Short swords
4 Bowie knives
250 Arrowheads
10 Spearheads

160 lbs



COMMUNITY PROPERTY


ANIMALS
1 Horse, mare, quarter horse (Rose)
1 ewe (Lucy)

PROVISIONS
50 lbs Flour Pinole
25 lbs Whole Grain Flour
25 lbs Rice
10 lbs Seasoning/Spices
10 lbs Tea
15 lbs Salt
15 lbs Sugar

150 lbs


MEDICINES
2 Large First Aid Kits
2 Personal First Aid Kits
Rattlesnake antivenin
2 Suture kits
1 box of aspirins (20 bottles, 100 tablets, 500 mg)

25 lbs

WEAPONRY
2 30-06 hunting rifle
6 boxes of ammunition
2 .22 rifle
6 boxes of ammunition
2 .357 revolver
6 boxes of ammunition

75 lbs


MISC.
50 lbs Farm Seeds - (corn, watermelon, honeydew, cantaloupe, squash, pumpkin)
30 lbs Garden Seeds (tomatoes, lettuce, cucumber, carrot, radish,)
30 lbs Plant Cuttings (apple, orange, peach, lemon, pomegranate)
10 lbs of cotton seeds
10 lbs of marijuana seeds (medical purposes)
40 lbs Books - animal husbandry, hunting, tanning, basic blacksmithing,
5 gallons of gasoline
10 lbs concentrated lye

240 lbs

* all metal implements are stainless steel, where possible


ITEMIZED LIST FOR KITS



PERSONAL FIRST AID KITS

Bandaids
Gauze Pads
Gauze
Tape
Scissors
Nail Clippers
Moleskin
Water Tablets
Antiseptic Ointment
Tweezers
Magnifier
Aspirin


LARGE FIRST AID KIT

Bandaids
Gauze Pads
Gauze
Tape
Scissors
Razor
Moleskin
Water Purifying Tablets
Antiseptic Ointment
Ace Bandages
Bug Bite Lotion
Baking Soda
Stomach Medicine
Diarhea Medicine
Cold Tablets
Cough/Throat Lozenges
Mirror
Tweezers
Antiseptic Wipes
Eyewash
Butterfly Bandaids
Cold Pack
Aspirin
Tylenol
Calamine Lotion
Sunburn Lotion
Noxema
Tooth Wax
Tooth Repair Paste
Orajel
Oil of Cloves
Eye Patch
Eye Lubricant
Smelling Salts
Disinfectant Soap
Latex Gloves
CPR Breathing Mask
Ipecac
Charcoal Tablets
Triangular Bandages
Sewing Needles

SUTURE KIT

1 Needle Holder
1 Scissors, 5", stainless
1 Tissue Forceps, Mouse Tooth, 4.5" stainless
1 Nylon Suture, 3-O, w/Cutting Needle
1 Nylon Suture, 5-O, w/Cutting Needle
1 Scalpel Handle and Blade, #11
2 Syringes, 3 ml, plastic
2 Syringes, 5 ml, plastic
1 Irrigation Syringe, 10 ml, 18 ga. catheter tip
2 Needles, 25 ga. x 5/8"
2 Needles, 21 ga. x 1-1/2"
2 Needles, 18 ga. x 1-1/2"
1 Angiocath, 18 ga.
1 IV Admin. Set
10 Cover Strip Wound Closures, 1/4" x 4"
2 Benzoin Swabs
5 Wound Wipes
1 Providone-Iodine, 1%, 1 oz.
2 Surgeon's Gloves, sterile, sz 7.5, 8
2 Trauma Pads, 5" x 9"
2 Gauze Dressings, 4" x 4"
2 Telfa Pads, 3" x 4"
1 Stretch Gauze Bandage, 3"
4 Triple Antibiotic Ointment Packet
1 Adhesive Tape, 1/2" x 5 yd.
1 Sterile Drape
1 Contents List
4 Extra Security Tags



SEWING KIT

Needles
Threads
Buttons
Safety Pins
Speedy Stitcher
Stitcher Thread

PERSONAL GROOMING KIT

Straight Edge Razor
Nose and ear trimmer
Neck line and sideburn trimmer
Nail clippers
Toenail clippers
Tweezers
Nail file
Hair comb
Scissors
Toothbrush
Toothpaste
Hair brush


HORSE GROOMING KIT

1 curry comb
1 mud comb
1 mane/tail comb
1 hoof pick
1 hoof knife
1 14" nipper
1 14" rasp
1 scraper

HORSE TACK

1 Western Saddle - w/ Breast Collar, cinch. girth.
1 Bridle and bit
1 Saddle blanket
2 halter
2 lead line

[SionEwig]

Here's my list of items I'm bringing in. the Weights for them is pretty much just guessed and rough estimae. Hopefully they're not too off. Hopefully I've also brought enough things to ensure me and mine's survival.

MISC
Metal wire, steel - 100 ft.


TOOLS
300 feet Rope, heavy nylon
4 binoculars


WEAPONRY
3 Bows (with bracers)



COMMUNITY PROPERTY

PROVISIONS
50 lbs Flour Pinole
25 lbs Whole Grain Flour
25 lbs Rice
10 lbs Seasoning/Spices
10 lbs Tea
15 lbs Salt
15 lbs Sugar

150 lbs


WEAPONRY
2 30-06 hunting rifle
6 boxes of ammunition
2 .22 rifle
6 boxes of ammunition
2 .357 revolver
6 boxes of ammunition

75 lbs


Real good list there (snipped a bunch for brevity). A few questions and comments though.

On the 100 ft of metal wire - What gauge?

On the 300 feet of nylon rope - What dia.?

On the binoculars - What power?

On the bows - What poundage and type (compound, recurve, or what)?

On the provisions - good estimate there, my figures are showing that an adult with a 3000 cal. diet will eat about 75 lbs in 30 days (2 1/2 lbs/day).

On the 30-06 rifles - Which one, the weight is variable (M1903 Springfields are 8.75 lbs, the M1917 Enfield - in 30-06 - is 9.25 lbs, and many commercial rifles are less)?

On the 30-06, 22LR, and 357 ammunition - How many rounds of ammo (22LR is about 4.4 lbs/500 rds, 30-06 is about 6.5 lbs/100 rds, and 357 is about 2 lbs/50)?

On the 22 rifles and 357 revolvers - Which ones (same comments as for the 30-06 rifles)?

Depending on which firearms you go with and how much ammunition, you could have some weight left over.

[Psychomeltdown]

Real good list there (snipped a bunch for brevity). A few questions and comments though.

On the 100 ft of metal wire - What gauge? probably 10 guage, I'm not looking to do much with it, beyond hang a few things and repair some other bits that might break.

On the 300 feet of nylon rope - What dia.? 3/16" seems a good size.

On the binoculars - What power?2 20X, 2 10X due to the fact we might have to be looking in woods and the like.

On the bows - What poundage and type (compound, recurve, or what)? 75 lbs for me, 55 lbs for the wife, and extra 75 lbs bow just in case.

On the 30-06 rifles - Which one, the weight is variable (M1903 Springfields are 8.75 lbs, the M1917 Enfield - in 30-06 - is 9.25 lbs, and many commercial rifles are less)?

On the 30-06, 22LR, and 357 ammunition - How many rounds of ammo (22LR is about 4.4 lbs/500 rds, 30-06 is about 6.5 lbs/100 rds, and 357 is about 2 lbs/50)?

On the 22 rifles and 357 revolvers - Which ones (same comments as for the 30-06 rifles)?

Depending on which firearms you go with and how much ammunition, you could have some weight left over

.22 Rifle: basically the standardized model everyone is taking, not sure which one...1000 rounds (8.8 lbs)
30-06: I think we agreed on the M1917 Enfield, didn't we? 400 rounds (26 lbs)
.357: A .357 Magnum, Double Action 150 riounds (6 lbs)

[Dave Howery]

Psycho> nice list. Looks a lot like mine, but I didn't detail the sewing and first aid kits... I'll just say mine is "the same as Psycho's" to avoid repetition... you have a few things I forgot, so I'll be updating mine...

[Ward]

probably 10 guage, I'm not looking to do much with it, beyond hang a few things and repair some other bits that might break.

3/16" seems a good size.

2 20X, 2 10X due to the fact we might have to be looking in woods and the like.

75 lbs for me, 55 lbs for the wife, and extra 75 lbs bow just in case.



.22 Rifle: basically the standardized model everyone is taking, not sure which one...1000 rounds (8.8 lbs)
30-06: I think we agreed on the M1917 Enfield, didn't we? 400 rounds (26 lbs)
.357: A .357 Magnum, Double Action 150 riounds (6 lbs)


I'm useing the weights that they are giving in the twight2000 weapon sorce book for weights .

[Flocculencio]

Sounds like a good list Psycho. I think I'll follow that, but with a few changes.

Personal Weaponry:

2x 1859 Infantry Sharps Carbines .54 Cal
6x
2 sets bullet moulds
2kg Lead
2x 1851 Colt Army .44cal revolvers
2x Cavalry sabres
10x heads for spears/lances
2x lance shafts (Just in case :D)
2x spear shafts (I figure we can cut more shafts there)

I don't know how to use a bow so I figure I might as well keep with black powder weapons until I learn how.

Animals:
1x Waler mare. The Waler's an Australian breed, bred as a stockhorse for the arid outback and also the preferred mount of British and Imperial cavalry. I figure those are useful characteristics for our situation.

1x Nanny Goat

[Psychomeltdown]

I'm useing the weights that they are giving in the twight2000 weapon sorce book for weights .
Okay I'll refer to your expertise on this matter. How much for
2 .22 rifles, standardize brand. + 1000 rds
2 30-06 rifles, standardized brand + 300 rds
2 .357 Mags + 150 rds



Since it seems I have an extra 80 lbs left over,

I think I'll take
5 lassos
2 leather chaps (for riding and horse handling)
4 Folding Camping Arm Chairs
5 lbs of smoking tobacco
10 packages of T-shirts
10 packages of heavy work socks


20lbs of blackpowder
4 pickaxes
4 shovels
1000 primers

The shovels, pickaxes, and blackpowder can go to the Community Porperty

[Norbert]

I was going to post this list last night, but had some problems with the board:

10 Large Hunting Knives
5 Hand Mirrors
2 Boar Spears
20 Compasses
1 Spinning Wheel
5 Magnifying Glasses
2 Pick Axes
2 Mattocks
1 Hand Mill
1 Wheel Barrow
2 Short Swords
4 Sets Block and Tackle
6 Triple Pulleys
1 Chain Hoist
5 Wax Tablets
5 Sickles
3 Schytes
12 Pocket Watches
1 Aneroid Barometer
2 Fish Spears
100 Pocket Knives
3 Pr 12x50 Binoculars
3 Pr 8x23 Binoculars
2 Modern Crossbows: 120 lb Pull
2 1860 Army Revolver .44 Cal w/2 Spare Cylinders each
2000 pre-cast .44 cal Balls
1 .54 cal Hawkens Flintlock
1000 pre-cast balls .54
100 Agate Flints
8000 Percussion caps
(2000) Pyrodex pre-formed .44 cal pistol charges
(1000) Pyrodex pre-formed .54 cal rifle charges
3 Butchering Kits
3 25" Butcher Saws w/30 extra blades
300 2 bushel Grain Bags
2 9ft 2 man Crosscut Saws
2 7ft 2 man Crooscut Saws
3 4.5ft 1 man Crosscut Saws
2 Combination Saw Tools and Sharpening Files
2 14" Back Saws
5 Broad Axes with 15 extra Handles
5 Carpenters Adzes with 15 extra Handles
4 Double Bit Axes with 10 extra handles
6 Axe Wedges
1 Large Chest 1901 Sears Carpentry Toos Set
1 Clothing Wringer
2 Wash Boards
2 Wash Tubs
1 1902 Princess Style Cook Stove, 30 feet 6" stove Pipe
3000 ft Para Cord
9 Space Blankets (56"x84")
1 Camp Shower and Shelter
1 Ceramic Water Filter w/2 replacement filter elements
4 Camping Arm Chairs
2 7in1 Sleeping Bags
1 10'8"x20' Modular Wall Tent
1 Tundra Takedown Stove and accesories
1 Fold a Sled
120 pair Ultimax Wool Socks
20 pair Silk Long Underwear (10 mans, 10 womens)
8 Pair Chopper Mitts with 2 Pair Wool Liners
16 Pair Calf Skin Work Gloves
2 Oilskin Hats
2 Sets Carhart Bibbs, Lined
2 Pair Carhart Lined Coveralls
2 Pair Carhart Unlined Coveralls
2 Leather Parka
2 Leather Chore Coats
72 Soft Canvas Trail Shirts
100 T-Shirts
6 Rag Wool Sweaters
30 Pair Blue Jeans
60 Logger Flanel Shirts
60 Pair Mens Briefs, 60 Pair Womens Underwear
50 lb Rice
20 lb Peanut Butter
50 lb Whole Wheat Flour
10 lb Yeast
1 M1917 Enfield Rifle
1000 rounds .30-06 Ammo

For Planting:
1 Bushel Oats (25 lb)
1 Bushel Wheat (50 lb)
1/2 Bushel Barley (20 lb)
1/2 Bushel Rye (22.5 lb)
1/2 Bushel Beans (20 lb)
1/2 Bushel Peas (20 lb)
20 lb Seed Potatoes
20 lb Onion Seed
20 lb Peanuts
1 lb Tobacco Seed

10 lb books including 'Handy Farm Devices and How to Make Them', 'Anarchist Cook Book',

[SionEwig]

I'm useing the weights that they are giving in the twight2000 weapon sorce book for weights .

The Twilight 2000 wieght list was only semi accurate. Better was the list for Morrow Project, or like I did, get the stuff out and put it on the scale, which is what I have done with weapons and ammunition.

[SionEwig]

FOOD INFORMATION

Using the lightest weight food I could come up with while also taking into account maximizing nutritional value (and you won't really get any lighter than this), I figured on using Mountain Home freeze dried food.

For 3000 cal./day - 2.5 lbs (75 lbs/30 days)
For 2000 cal./day - 1 2/3 lbs (50 lbs/30 days)
For 1500 cal./day - 1.25 lbs (37.5 lbs/30 days)

[Norbert]

GURPS weights were pretty good, Look at TL7 equipment. I believe that a site called Dreambirds Lair is still up, and had a list for equipment on it. It also had a section on weapons. No Guarentees though, I have not looked for it fo a few months.

[Psychomeltdown]

BASIC KIT?



ANIMALS
1 large animal
1 medium animal

BEDDING
2 Thermal sleeping bags
1 Two or more person tent


COOKING
1 Skillet
1 Pan
1 large pot
Utensils - forks, spoons, ladles, knives, etc.
2 Bowls
2 Cups
2 Canteen


MISC
2 sewing kits
2 large tarps
2 Fishing gear
2 personal grooming kits
5 Flint and Strikers
5 large plastic storage containers
50 lbs Farm Seeds
25 lbs Garden Seeds


TOOLS
2 shovels
2 axes
1 pickaxe
2 digging bars
1 hammer
1 mallet
5 boxes assorted nails
1 sledgehammer
2 hand saw files
3 flat file
2 handsaw
1 two man crosscut saw
2 hatchets
5 All purpose knives
2 whetstones
150 feet Rope, heavy nylon. 3/16"
2 binoculars
1 compasses
1 signal mirrors
5 draw knives


PROVISIONS
75 lbs Whole Grain Flour
75 lbs Rice
25 lbs Salt


MEDICINES
2 Large First Aid Kits
2 Personal First Aid Kits
Vitamins (C and others, 1 yr)
Hallzone tablets

WEAPONRY
2 30-06 M1917 Enfield
100 rds
2 .22 rifle
500 rds
2 .357 revolver
50 rds

[Psychomeltdown]

694 Members

694 Large animals
Horse - work horses
Cattle- meat and leather
Llama - wool and good guard aniamls
Dairy cows - milk
Donkeys - work donkeys
Oxen - work burros

694 medium animals
Pigs - meat
Sheep - wool and meat
Goats - mo hair, meat, milk
Dogs - guard aniamals

Small Animals (these will go to the weight you're carrying)
cats - rodent killers
chickens - eggs, meat
rabbits - meat, fur
turkeys - meat
ducks - meat
geese - meat


For the large animals i think we should look at what we're going to be doing. What work needs to be done. A lot of farming, hunting, logging, transporting, etc. We'll need a hell of a lot of horses for this. Cattle won't be able to be touched at least for a few years, after all we need to get the herds up to a large number. Llamas will probably be only used for wool, Dairy cows for milk for the young, donkeys and oxen are work animals therefore we may need a good number of them too. Mostly the donkeys.

Therefore:

Large Animals

400 horses, 350 mares, 50 stallions.
75 donkeys, 65 female, 10 males
75 oxen, 65 female, 10 bulls
75 cattle. 65 female, 10 bulls
48 dairy cows, 40 cows, 8 bulls
20 llamas, 17 female, 3 male
1 buffalo (Shade's) male?


For the Medium animals we'll be needing meat and we'll be needing wool the most. Clothign will wear out quickly and we'll need a way to replace it. But food is the most important thing, therefore the pigs are needed more, a lot more and in large neough numbers that they can keep reporducing and keep the people in alive. Sheep are next important, needing thier woold to make cloth. Goats are good for their Mo hair and are hardy survivors. Dogs. we'll need a lot of them, to guard the community and to guard the herds.

Medium Animals

300 Pigs, 225 females, 25 males
250 Sheep 225 ewes, 25 rams
80 Goats 70 female, 10 male
64 Dogs - assorted

[Dave Howery]

sounds good to me... but apparently 30% of our group is wandering off to get killed by the natives, so how many horses do we lose to their hare-brained scheme?

[Psychomeltdown]

at least 200 large animals
200 medium animals
30000 + food
not to mention innumerable tools and other supplies.

This is why I'm going for the gather the animals in one place and guard them tightly approach.

if they want to leave, let them friggin' walk. :mad:

[Dave Howery]

apparently we won't have the chance, as they're planning on bolting immediately....

[Psychomeltdown]

apparently we won't have the chance, as they're planning on bolting immediately....
then we lose 200 horses?

Damn.

but at least we get at least 900 lbs of their equipment. they can bolt, but they can't take much with them. But damn it, they could always come back and try raiding us. I guess Weapon M, Mbarry and Flocc are going to be busy...

[Dave Howery]

on the plus side, as you said, they'll only be taking what they can carry, so we'll be keeping their small animals and a big chunk of their gear. On the negative side, nearly all their large animals will be horses.... 199 horses and one buffalo gone from the ledger...

[Dave Howery]

concerning the list of tools: since we're going to working with lots of raw lumber, I suggest a few people take draw knives along. And wouldn't digging bars be better than posthole diggers? They can dig postholes pretty well and tamp down soil too...

[Psychomeltdown]

concerning the list of tools: since we're going to working with lots of raw lumber, I suggest a few people take draw knives along. And wouldn't digging bars be better than posthole diggers? They can dig postholes pretty well and tamp down soil too...
added them. yeah, i guess I could change that on my list too.

[Ward]

concerning the list of tools: since we're going to working with lots of raw lumber, I suggest a few people take draw knives along. And wouldn't digging bars be better than posthole diggers? They can dig postholes pretty well and tamp down soil too...



That 1900 tool box of carpenter tools I have has a draw knife in it as well as a floor plane and other ideams .

[Psychomeltdown]

200 horses, 185 mares, 15 stallions.
70 donkeys, 62 female, 8 males
75 oxen, 65 female, 10 bulls
75 cattle. 65 female, 10 bulls
48 dairy cows, 40 cows, 8 bulls
20 llamas, 17 female, 3 male
300 Pigs, 225 females, 25 males
250 Sheep 225 ewes, 25 rams
80 Goats 70 female, 10 male
60 Dogs - assorted

I'm thinking those that will strike out on their own will be mainly childless couples and the like. There's few married couples with kids who'll be risking their lives for a weak glimmer of becoming gods.

so i say about 415 people flee taking:
200 horses
5 donkeys
4 dogs

The most they can carry, if they're riding off is about 400 lbs. of extra weight. They themselves will at least take up 200 lbs. therefore they've left behind at least 1000 lbs of tools, food, and equipment. Any other animal they take with them will just slow them down, even in the chaos of the beginning, we'll still be able to track them down and they won't be going far..

200,000 lbs of equipment is available for Community use.

but with less 205 large animals, burden animals, things will be getting every difficult...

[Dave Howery]

woo hoo! I actually worked with draw knives a lot as a kid. Finally, something I can do, besides gardening...

[Darkest]

Don't do statistics yet until we figure out who is leaving and who isn't.

Really, this is exactly why I said we should not start yet. We don't know what's happening, statistically.

[Psychomeltdown]

Don't do statistics yet until we figure out who is leaving and who isn't.

Really, this is exactly why I said we should not start yet. We don't know what's happening, statistically.
well I'm extrapolating, based upon the fact that nearly a third of the group will be fleeing and those that do flee will probably be mostly childless couples.

[Ward]

Don't do statistics yet until we figure out who is leaving and who isn't.

Really, this is exactly why I said we should not start yet. We don't know what's happening, statistically.


As far I concerned the only person who left is the one person who posted he did .

And if he took a bufflalo did the rest have them also .:D

[NapoleonXIV]

Revision of what I am taking.

All to come out of the ammo weight

A wagon (http://www.pineridgeonline.com/wagons/index.shtml) and hitch for the horse 100lbs estimated

An ultralite airplane with motor adapted to run on alcohol. 200lbs

10 gals of alcohol 80lbs

[Norbert]

Tool Set I am taking (80 lbs)

Planes:
1 Stanley smothing plane; 1 Jack Plane; 1 Fore Plane; 1 Block Plane

Miscellaneous Tools:
Saw Set; Saw Clamp; 2 Saw Files; 1 Steel Square; 1 Carpenters Pincers; 1 Combination Wire Cutter/Pliers; 1 Nail Set; 1 Spring ZTube Punch; 100 slooted Rivets; 1 Iron Bench Screw; 4 Iron Clamps; 1 Marking Gauge; 1 Pair Wing Dividers; 1 Chalk Line, Reel and Awl; 1 Braided Cotton Chalk Line; 12 Cakes Carpenters Chalk; 1 Plumb and Level; 1 Try Square; 1 Sliding T-Bevel; 1 Boxwood Rule; 1 Shingling Hatchet; 1 Nail Hammer; 1 Monkey Wrench; 1 Draw Knife; 1 Spoke Shave; 1 Socket Framing Chisel; 3 Socket Firming Chisels; 1 Cold Chisel; 1 Screw Driver; 1 Ratchet Bit Brace; 7 Auger Bits; 3 Pattern Gimlet Bits

Saws:
1 Hand Saw; 1 Panel Saw; 1 Compass Saw

Many of these types of tools from 1900 a in the possesion of my father, and still as useful today as when they were new. They should easily last 100 years of use if taken care of.

[DominusNovus]

Large animal: mustang horse, male, named "Morsel"
Small animal: pig, male
People: Not sure. I'll figure it out.
Supplies:
farm related:

20 16 ft. sections of hog panels, at 33 lbs a piece [660lbs]
http://www.jimssupply.com/fencing&netting.htm
2 1320 ft. rolls of of barbed wire (2 pt. gaucho), at 41 lbs a roll. [82lbs]
http://www.hutchison-inc.com/html/fence_wire/wire/wire.php
veterinary books (don't forget, our animals can get sick, too), basic animal husbandry books, guides on working with rope
veterinary medicine (antibiotics, worm medicine, etc.)
syringes, scalpals, balling gun (basically, to force a pill down the throat of the animal), band castrator, hoofing equipment, sheep shears (electric and manual), dehorning equipment,
rope halters, nose leads (a nose clamp attatched to a rope), branding iron, ear notchers, feeding bottles
pitch forks, hay forks, manure shovels, scoop shovels, wire cutters
4 cartons containing 2 9600' spools of baler twine, at 22.75lbs a carton [91lbs]

misc:

50 lbs. box of condoms (all you guys with supermodel wives, do you really want kids 9 months from when we arrive?)
50 lbs. of that new waterproof paper they just invented couple months back, as well as pens, pencils, pencil sharpeners, thumbtacks, and other office supplies
However much of Psycho's list I can fit :cool:

[DominusNovus]

Just because I brought all that animal stuff doesn't mean I want to be in charge of using it. I'll do it if I have to, but I'd much rather help organize stuff.
Or chop trees.
Or dig ditches.
Or dig latrines.

Oh, and I'm brining male animals so that we have something to breed all those females with before the next generation matures. Those expecting mothers will likely be ready to be bred before the offspring are ready to breed them.

[Forum Lurker]

50 lbs. box of condoms (all you guys with supermodel wives, do you really want kids 9 months from when we arrive?)
Ideally sooner. Best time for popping out babies in this climate is probably early April, so honeymooning ought to be scheduled for July. Since we've passed that already, I at least will wait until then for the wedding and its joyous, yet inevitable, results.

[DominusNovus]

Ideally sooner. Best time for popping out babies in this climate is probably early April, so honeymooning ought to be scheduled for July. Since we've passed that already, I at least will wait until then for the wedding and its joyous, yet inevitable, results.
Hence the condoms. Unless you really think we're all gonna pick hot wives and not do anything about them for that many months.

[Forum Lurker]

I don't know about the rest of you people, but I have enough imagination to last six months without making babies, especially given how little energy we're likely to have for baby-making until the spring planting's done.

[schrammy]

i hope Psychomeltdown doesn't mind but i will use his list as a template as i find it verry wel tought trough.

me and my 18 year young pamela anderson clone will bring the follow



CLOTHING (per person)
12 tough pants
7 shirts (2 long sleeved)
12 pair of boots
7 underwear
2 Hat
2 Jackets (light and heavy)
5 Gloves ( heavy work-gloves)
1 Rain-slicker/poncho
4 Sunglasses
20 Bandanas
4 army camo suits
200 lbs


BEDDING
2 Thermal sleeping bags
1 large sleeping mat
2 pillows
1 Two person tent

20 lbs


COOKING
2 Skillet
1 Pan
2 large pot
Utensils - forks, spoons, ladles, knives, etc.
4 Bowls
4 Cups
3 Canteen
1 Grilling Rack

50 lbs

MISC
2 box of candles
3 boxes waterproof matches
4 sewing kits
Twine - 3000 feet
Metal wire, steel - 100 ft.
Buckskin needles
3 large tarps
Fishing gear - for two people
Vitamins (C and others, 1 yr)
Zip lock bags - assorted sizes
Hallzone tablets
4 grooming kits
10 straight edge razors
1 set of horse tack
1 set of horse grooming kit
2 flashlights w/ extra batteries
1 flare-gun with extra flares
15 Flint and Strikers
10 lbs of paper
5 packets of pencils
1 binder of board-game descriptions/rules
10 packages of hand-soap
3 boxes of clothing soap
5 large plastic storage containers



315 lbs


TOOLS
2 shovels
2 axes
1 pickaxe
1 posthole digger
2 hammers
2 mallets
5 boxes assorted nails
2 sledgehammers
2 hand saw files
3 flat file
2 handsaw
1 two man crosscut saw
3 hatchets
3 chisels
3 gouges
1 hand drill and bits
25 All purpose knives
10 Skinning knives
10 whetstones
300 feet Rope, heavy nylon
4 binoculars
4 compasses
4 signal mirrors
15 axe heads
10 hammer heads
15 hatchet heads
1 25 feet tape measure

260 lbs


WEAPONRY
1 crosbow (with bracers)
100 Arrows (with quivers)
Extra bow strings
2 katana swords
4 Bowie knives
250 Arrowheads
10 Spearheads

130 lbs



COMMUNITY PROPERTY


ANIMALS
1 Horse, mare, quarter horse (Rose)
1 ewe (Lucy)

PROVISIONS
50 lbs Flour Pinole
25 lbs Whole Grain Flour
25 lbs Rice
10 lbs Seasoning/Spices
10 lbs Tea
15 lbs Salt
15 lbs Sugar

150 lbs


MEDICINES
2 Large First Aid Kits
2 Personal First Aid Kits
Rattlesnake antivenin
2 Suture kits
1 box of aspirins (20 bottles, 100 tablets, 500 mg)

25 lbs

WEAPONRY
2 30-06 hunting rifle
6 boxes of ammunition
2 .22 rifle
6 boxes of ammunition
2 .357 revolver
6 boxes of ammunition

75 lbs


MISC.
50 lbs Farm Seeds - (corn, watermelon, honeydew, cantaloupe, squash, pumpkin)
30 lbs Garden Seeds (tomatoes, lettuce, cucumber, carrot, radish,)
30 lbs Plant Cuttings (apple, orange, peach, lemon, pomegranate)
10 lbs of cotton seeds
10 lbs of marijuana seeds (medical purposes)
40 lbs Books - animal husbandry, hunting, tanning, basic blacksmithing,
5 gallons of gasoline
10 lbs concentrated lye

240 lbs

* all metal implements are stainless steel, where possible


ITEMIZED LIST FOR KITS



PERSONAL FIRST AID KITS

Bandaids
Gauze Pads
Gauze
Tape
Scissors
Nail Clippers
Moleskin
Water Tablets
Antiseptic Ointment
Tweezers
Magnifier
Aspirin


LARGE FIRST AID KIT

Bandaids
Gauze Pads
Gauze
Tape
Scissors
Razor
Moleskin
Water Purifying Tablets
Antiseptic Ointment
Ace Bandages
Bug Bite Lotion
Baking Soda
Stomach Medicine
Diarhea Medicine
Cold Tablets
Cough/Throat Lozenges
Mirror
Tweezers
Antiseptic Wipes
Eyewash
Butterfly Bandaids
Cold Pack
Aspirin
Tylenol
Calamine Lotion
Sunburn Lotion
Noxema
Tooth Wax
Tooth Repair Paste
Orajel
Oil of Cloves
Eye Patch
Eye Lubricant
Smelling Salts
Disinfectant Soap
Latex Gloves
CPR Breathing Mask
Ipecac
Charcoal Tablets
Triangular Bandages
Sewing Needles

SUTURE KIT

1 Needle Holder
1 Scissors, 5", stainless
1 Tissue Forceps, Mouse Tooth, 4.5" stainless
1 Nylon Suture, 3-O, w/Cutting Needle
1 Nylon Suture, 5-O, w/Cutting Needle
1 Scalpel Handle and Blade, #11
2 Syringes, 3 ml, plastic
2 Syringes, 5 ml, plastic
1 Irrigation Syringe, 10 ml, 18 ga. catheter tip
2 Needles, 25 ga. x 5/8"
2 Needles, 21 ga. x 1-1/2"
2 Needles, 18 ga. x 1-1/2"
1 Angiocath, 18 ga.
1 IV Admin. Set
10 Cover Strip Wound Closures, 1/4" x 4"
2 Benzoin Swabs
5 Wound Wipes
1 Providone-Iodine, 1%, 1 oz.
2 Surgeon's Gloves, sterile, sz 7.5, 8
2 Trauma Pads, 5" x 9"
2 Gauze Dressings, 4" x 4"
2 Telfa Pads, 3" x 4"
1 Stretch Gauze Bandage, 3"
4 Triple Antibiotic Ointment Packet
1 Adhesive Tape, 1/2" x 5 yd.
1 Sterile Drape
1 Contents List
4 Extra Security Tags



SEWING KIT

Needles
Threads
Buttons
Safety Pins
Speedy Stitcher
Stitcher Thread

PERSONAL GROOMING KIT

Straight Edge Razor
Nose and ear trimmer
Neck line and sideburn trimmer
Nail clippers
Toenail clippers
Tweezers
Nail file
Hair comb
Scissors
Toothbrush
Toothpaste
Hair brush


HORSE GROOMING KIT

1 curry comb
1 mud comb
1 mane/tail comb
1 hoof pick
1 hoof knife
1 14" nipper
1 14" rasp
1 scraper

HORSE TACK

1 Western Saddle - w/ Breast Collar, cinch. girth.
1 Bridle and bit
1 Saddle blanket
2 halter
2 lead line

i am not sure if i have any space left or not if not i will take out things like metal wire etz, i will take 60lbs of chemlab equipment that should be more than sufficiant to set a decent enough lab for basic needs.

[Hendryk]

Has someone already brought a portable water purifier? I'm not sure how heavy those things are, but we're probably going to need one or more real soon. 1,000+ people drink a lot of water.
And some of us should take along a few of those wind-up laptop computers that have recently been designed for distribution in the Third World. They're quite basic, but at least they're sturdy, low-maintenance, and they don't require a power source.

[Straha]

I'm using Schrammy's list as a template for mine... since I don't know WTf I'd need..

Me and a clone of my friend Jasmine(I'm not going to mean and make her come with me so I'm taking a clone with me instead) are bringing the following:

CLOTHING (per person)
12 tough pants(mostly jeans)
7 shirts (2 long sleeved)
12 pair of boots
7 underwear
2 Hat(1 cowboy hat and one wool one for winter)
2 Jackets (light and heavy)
5 Gloves ( heavy work-gloves)
1 Rain-slicker/poncho
4 Mirrorshade Sunglasses
20 Bandanas
4 army camo suits(for if I ever need them)
200 lbs

BEDDING
2 Thermal sleeping bags(but non-electritic obviously)
1 large sleeping mat
2 pillows
1 Two person tent

20 lbs


COOKING
2 Skillet
1 Pan
2 large pot
Utensils - forks, spoons, ladles, knives, etc.
4 Bowls
4 Cups
3 Canteen
1 Grilling Rack

50 lbs

MISC
2 box of candles
3 boxes waterproof matches
4 sewing kits
Twine - 3000 feet
Metal wire, steel - 100 ft.
Buckskin needles
3 large tarps
Fishing gear - for two people
Vitamins (C and others, 1 yr)
Zip lock bags - assorted sizes
Hallzone tablets
4 grooming kits
10 straight edge razors
1 set of horse tack
1 set of horse grooming kit
2 flashlights w/ extra batteries
1 flare-gun with extra flares
15 Flint and Strikers
10 lbs of paper
5 packets of pencils
1 binder of roleplaying game descriptions/special rules for playing without dice or other supplies
10 packages of hand-soap
3 boxes of clothing soap
5 large plastic storage containers



315 lbs


TOOLS
2 shovels
2 axes
1 pickaxe
1 posthole digger
2 hammers
2 mallets
5 boxes assorted nails
2 sledgehammers
2 hand saw files
3 flat file
2 handsaw
1 two man crosscut saw
3 hatchets
3 chisels
3 gouges
1 hand drill and bits
25 All purpose knives
10 Skinning knives
10 whetstones
300 feet Rope, heavy nylon
4 binoculars
4 compasses
4 signal mirrors
15 axe heads
10 hammer heads
15 hatchet heads
1 25 feet tape measure

260 lbs


WEAPONRY
1 crosbow (with bracers)
100 Arrows (with quivers)
Extra bow strings
2 katana swords
4 Bowie knives
250 Arrowheads
10 Spearheads

130 lbs



COMMUNITY PROPERTY


ANIMALS
1 preganant draft horse mare (heidi)
1 female goat (Gina)

PROVISIONS
45 lbs Flour Pinole
30 lbs Whole Grain Flour
25 lbs Rice
10 lbs Seasoning/Spices
10 lbs Tea
15 lbs Salt
15 lbs Sugar

150 lbs


MEDICINES
2 Large First Aid Kits
2 Personal First Aid Kits
Coral Snake antivenin(they live all around north america and one wants to be safe right?)
2 Suture kits
1 box of aspirins (20 bottles, 100 tablets, 500 mg)

25 lbs

WEAPONRY
2 30-06 hunting rifle
6 boxes of ammunition
2 .22 rifle
6 boxes of ammunition
2 .357 revolver
6 boxes of ammunition

75 lbs


MISC.
45 lbs Farm Seeds - (corn, watermelon, honeydew, cantaloupe, squash, pumpkin)
25 lbs Garden Seeds (tomatoes, lettuce, cucumber, carrot, radish,)
25 lbs Plant Cuttings (apple, orange, peach, lemon, pomegranate)
50 lbs of cotton seeds
30 lbs of marijuana seeds (medical purposes)
50 lbs Books - animal husbandry, surviving in the wilderness, hunting, tanning, how to build basic machines, basic blacksmithing,
5 gallons of gasoline

240 lbs

* all metal implements are stainless steel, where possible


ITEMIZED LIST FOR KITS



PERSONAL FIRST AID KITS

Bandaids
Gauze Pads
Gauze
Tape
Scissors
Nail Clippers
Moleskin
Water Tablets
Antiseptic Ointment
Tweezers
Magnifier
Aspirin


LARGE FIRST AID KIT

Bandaids
Gauze Pads
Gauze
Tape
Scissors
Razor
Moleskin
Water Purifying Tablets
Antiseptic Ointment
Ace Bandages
Bug Bite Lotion
Baking Soda
Stomach Medicine
Diarhea Medicine
Cold Tablets
Cough/Throat Lozenges
Mirror
Tweezers
Antiseptic Wipes
Eyewash
Butterfly Bandaids
Cold Pack
Aspirin
Tylenol
Calamine Lotion
Sunburn Lotion
Noxema
Tooth Wax
Tooth Repair Paste
Orajel
Oil of Cloves
Eye Patch
Eye Lubricant
Smelling Salts
Disinfectant Soap
Latex Gloves
CPR Breathing Mask
Ipecac
Charcoal Tablets
Triangular Bandages
Sewing Needles

SUTURE KIT

1 Needle Holder
1 Scissors, 5", stainless
1 Tissue Forceps, Mouse Tooth, 4.5" stainless
1 Nylon Suture, 3-O, w/Cutting Needle
1 Nylon Suture, 5-O, w/Cutting Needle
1 Scalpel Handle and Blade, #11
2 Syringes, 3 ml, plastic
2 Syringes, 5 ml, plastic
1 Irrigation Syringe, 10 ml, 18 ga. catheter tip
2 Needles, 25 ga. x 5/8"
2 Needles, 21 ga. x 1-1/2"
2 Needles, 18 ga. x 1-1/2"
1 Angiocath, 18 ga.
1 IV Admin. Set
10 Cover Strip Wound Closures, 1/4" x 4"
2 Benzoin Swabs
5 Wound Wipes
1 Providone-Iodine, 1%, 1 oz.
2 Surgeon's Gloves, sterile, sz 7.5, 8
2 Trauma Pads, 5" x 9"
2 Gauze Dressings, 4" x 4"
2 Telfa Pads, 3" x 4"
1 Stretch Gauze Bandage, 3"
4 Triple Antibiotic Ointment Packet
1 Adhesive Tape, 1/2" x 5 yd.
1 Sterile Drape
1 Contents List
4 Extra Security Tags

SEWING KIT

Needles
Threads
Buttons
Safety Pins
Speedy Stitcher
Stitcher Thread

PERSONAL GROOMING KIT

Straight Edge Razor
Nose and ear trimmer
Neck line and sideburn trimmer
Nail clippers
Toenail clippers
Tweezers
Nail file
Hair comb
Scissors
Toothbrush
Toothpaste
Hair brush

[Norbert]

Has someone already brought a portable water purifier? I'm not sure how heavy those things are, but we're probably going to need one or more real soon. 1,000+ people drink a lot of water.
And some of us should take along a few of those wind-up laptop computers that have recently been designed for distribution in the Third World. They're quite basic, but at least they're sturdy, low-maintenance, and they don't require a power source.

I brought an Ceramic water filter of the type that the USMC is supposed to be using, with two extra elements which are supposed to be cleanable. Weight 1 lb

[Soyuz]

I recon the template would be a norm, but I'll edit it for my needs:

Large animal: horse, female in full gear - I know how to ride
Small animal: cat, female
Other people: no-one, please

Clothing, same but for one person
Bedding, same but for one person
Cooking, same but for one person
Tools, work and carpentry
No medical equipment or supplies
Food provisions, same

Weaponry
Revolver + ammo
Rifle with bayonet + ammo
Arbalest + 100 arrows
Fletchery set
Fletchery MANUAL

Things that might not have been mentioned:
Scissors
Nails, plenty of
Lighters, ~50
Soap
Comb
Toothbrush
Vitamins for 1 year
Books, an encyclopedia, various plays, select novels
Stack of paper
Pens + pencils
Wrist watch
Sun dial
Sun dial INSTRUCTIONS
Knives, various sizes of
Nilon, large sheet of
Rope, long
Horse grooming supplies
Mousetraps
Clarinet, which I can poorly play
Coins, any

Things to carry things in:
2 barrels (wooden)
2 crates (wooden)
1 fire-proof safe, for books
2 suitcases, for clothes
2 backpacks
1 cat carridge
Plastic containers

Each in enough amount so I don't exceed the weight limit.

[Matt]

My communial contribution well be slanted towards my milita role, ie lots of weapons and ammo. I'll get a complete list later but the gist is this.

Large Animal: Horse, Waler- Homer Male
Small Animal: Dog, Pembroke Welsh Corgi- Roxie Female

M1917 Enfield(.30-06)- 100
Lee-Enfield(.22)- 50 for training, since it's heavier then most 22s
Browning Automatic Rifle(.30-06)- 15
Springfield Model 1863 Rifle(.58 cal)- 200

And an assload of ammo and powder

[Dave Howery]

OK, don't know if this is a good list or not... probably forgot something important... but here's mine anyway...
Dave Howery’s ISOT list

Me and Michelle Each Carry:

1 aluminum framed hikers’ backpack, 1 thermal lined sleeping bag, 1 backpacker’s 2-man tent, 1 small first aid kit, 1 small sewing kit, 1 swiss army knife, 1 Leatherman type multitool, 1 compass, 1 binoculars, 1 large roll of heavy nylon string, 1 large roll of duct tape, 1 camping type mess kit, 1 metal canteen, 1 box of water purification tablets, 1 can of FFg black powder, 1 can of FFFg black powder, 1 box of .54 round shot, 2 300 sheet spiral notebooks, 10 pencils and 1 sharpener, personal grooming kit, rattlesnake antivenom kit, wind-up wristwatch.

Clothing: 1 heavy leather thermal lined fringed coat, waterproofed. Hiking boots (broken in, not new) with leather laces and gel sole inserts. Heavy jeans, heavy shirt, heavy socks, cowboy hat.

Extra clothing (in a trunk): 1 each light leather fringed jacket, waterproofed. 6 each extra jeans, 6 each extra heavy shirts, 6 each light shirts, 1 pair each extra boots, 50 each extra leather boot laces, long underwear for each of us, 12 each extra pairs of socks, 20 each extra pairs of underwear (and bras for Michelle), 2 stocking caps, 6 pairs of heavy leather work gloves, 2 pairs heavy mittens.

Large animal: 1 pregnant Holstein cow, all current shots
Small animal: 1 pregnant Hampshire sow (smaller than modern average, since we won’t be able to feed it as much as on a modern farm), all current shots

1 small 4-wheeled ‘one horse’ wagon (300 lbs). Titanium/steel frame, aluminum ‘planks’ for the bed, sides, and seat (bolted on; when they wear out, replace them with wooden planks). Padded seat, shock absorbers, front pivoting axle mounted on a king bolt. Cover is waterproof heavy nylon with brass eyelets. Complete harness set. Wagon is bolted together, using no more than 3 different sizes of bolts and nuts.

Misc. Gear:
50’ heavy nylon rope, 2 wheelbarrows, 2 15’ x15’ tarps, 50’ coated light wire
20 each replacement bolts and nuts for the wagon parts. 2 replacement king bolts.
1 large metal bucket, 3 large plastic buckets with lids, 100 nylon ‘burlap type’ bags
1 dutch oven, 1 iron camp cookware set, 1 set of kitchen knives, 1 set of kitchen cutlery, 6 plastic plates, 6 plastic glasses, 4 plastic ‘travel’ type mugs with lids, 1 campfire grill, 6 stainless steel grill skewers, 1 40 lb. iron stove
1 large first aid kit, 1 large sewing kit, 1 flint/firestarting kit, 1 box waterproof matches
1 case bar soap, 1 case TP, 20 lbs. Iodized salt, 20 lbs. sugar, 2 bottles cooking oil, 1 case of candles, 1 case of nails, 1 shoebox full of kitchen seasonings
1 lantern, 1 tin of kerosene, one heavy quilt, 2 pillows
1 collapsible light fishing pole, 1 tackle box with all necessary fishing gear
food for 60 days for two of us (100 lbs?), 1 large bottle of multivitamin tablets
1 case water purification tablets, 1 case feminine hygiene products (whatever Michelle likes)
20 lbs. fescue grass seed, my entire collection of hunting/skinning/survival knives
10 300 page spiral notebooks, 100 pencils and a sharpener

Gardening Tools:
2 shovels, 2 rakes, 2 hoes, 2 transplanters, 2 cultivaters, 2 grass clippers, 1 box 1000 popsickle sticks (handy for marking where you planted stuff), 1 box of tree wrap, 1 large bag of plant support stakes, 1 case bird netting, 1 case nylon trellis, 2 large bottles of Miracle Gro, 1 watering can

Misc. Tools:
1 wood axe, 1 hatchet, 2 handsaws, 1 hand drill and bit set, 1 trowel, 1 pick, 1 digging bar, 1 small sledgehammer, 1 draw knife, 1 small mallet, 1 sickle (scythe?)

Tool Box:
Claw hammer, wrench set, screwdriver set, 1 crescent wrench, 1 tape measure (100’), 1 wire cutters, 1 pliers, 1 awl, 1 plane, 1 wood chisel set, 1 metal chisel, 2 whetstones, 1 chalk line, 1 level, 1 needle nose pliers, 3 metal files.

Firearms:
1 .54 cal Hawken caplock rifle with sling, double keys, double set triggers
1 .54 cal caplock pistol with holster and belt
both have brass ramrods; 1 shooting bag with two FFg powder flasks (each has a spout measure, one for the rifle and one for the pistol), one FFFg powder flask, complete ramrod-end accessories, ball starter, picks and brushes, nipple wrench, 500 caps, 500 patches, cap loader

6 extra tins of FFg powder, 3 tins of FFFg powder, 1000 caps, 1000 patches, 3 bottles of cleaning solvent, 3 bottles of patch lube, patch cutter, bullet mold, lead melting pan, 1 replacement brass ramrod for each
1 replacement lock for each gun, but in flintlock style

1 replica Sharps #3 45-70 rifle with sling, 500 rounds of ammo, complete reloading and cleaning kit (reloading parts for 500 rounds)

1 .357 pistol and 500 rounds of ammo, with holster and belt (something for Michelle)

Seed Packets: (50 lbs. total, with at least 4 different varieties of each in the mix)
Carrots, peas, green and yellow beans, beets, sugar beets, brussel sprouts, radishes, zucchini squash, cucumber, lettuce, bell pepper, chili pepper, tomato, cabbage, cantaloupe, watermelon, muskmelon

Herb Seed Packets: (10 of each)
Basil, chives, lavender, sage, spearmint, thyme, oregano, rosemary
Fruit Tree Cuttings: (2’ cuttings, bare root wrapped in sphagnum, all wrapped in burlap; 12 each, with at least two varieties of each in the mix)
Self fertile sweet cherry, self fertile plum, self fertile apricot, red and yellow apples, pear, pawpaw, orange, lemon

Fruit Bush Cuttings: (1’ cuttings, bare root in sphagnum wrapped in burlap; 12 each, with at least 2 varieties in each mix)
Everbearing raspberry, blackberry, gooseberry, red currant, sea berry

Seed Potatoes: 50 lbs., at least 4 varieties
Onion Sets: 300 (mix of red, white, yellow)
Strawberry plants: 20 plants in starter packs, at least 2 varieties

Books:
Black powder handbook
1 all inclusive gardening handbook discussing all the plants I’m bringing… planting, growing, fertilizing, harvesting, care, propagation
1 animal husbandry book on the care of pigs and milk cows
King James Bible, 2-3 books on asst. mythology, Arthurian and Charlemagne legends, etc.

Just For The Hell Of It:
1 shoebox filled with perennial flower seeds and bulbs

As the ASBs are giving us whatever we want on our list, I will specify that all long-handle tools will have flawless fiberglass handles and flawless heads that bolt on, so the handles can be easily replaced when they do break. All metal items will be top quality flawless metal. All seed packets will be filled with 100% viable seeds that will all germinate. All cuttings will be 100% viable.
ok, pick it apart and tell me what's wrong with it... :)

[Soyuz]

Dammit, how could I forget the most important thing - a metal detector!!! :mad: :( :mad:

[Ward]

Well my wife went though are lists and stated we are missing a lot of things

Iteams she said we need as a group

3 gals of honey , 2 gals of Vanela , 50 case 1000eash of Tamp ons , clothes pins , presure cooker , Glass baby bottles , Folding chairs , Folding metal table, jams and jellies , jello , butter turn . spining wheel , quilting frame , Vinager at less 50 gals , bleach , irons , metal bath tub , Amonua ,
victora and records , iuds , toys , spinin wheel , brooms , dust pan , rug beater , cleiling fans , leather wooking tools , cheese molds and cheese cloth , kniting needles , crocha hooks , zipers , milk cans , toilet seats ,
cliper for hair and to do the sheep , dyes , dippers, wax paper ,

[Othniel]

Wow, I was just going to put four full coolers filled with dried foods...(trail mix, and beef jerkey, with some ramen maybe...:) )

[DominusNovus]

Well my wife went though are lists and stated we are missing a lot of things

Iteams she said we need as a group

3 gals of honey , 2 gals of Vanela , 50 case 1000eash of Tamp ons , clothes pins , presure cooker , Glass baby bottles , Folding chairs , Folding metal table, jams and jellies , jello , butter turn . spining wheel , quilting frame , Vinager at less 50 gals , bleach , irons , metal bath tub , Amonua ,
victora and records , iuds , toys , spinin wheel , brooms , dust pan , rug beater , cleiling fans , leather wooking tools , cheese molds and cheese cloth , kniting needles , crocha hooks , zipers , milk cans , toilet seats ,
cliper for hair and to do the sheep , dyes , dippers, wax paper ,
check! I got the sheep shears already!:p

[Norbert]

Speaking of honey, If you've brought any food in cans, save the cans!!!! We can use them for many things, such as a smoker to more safley get Honey!

[Scarecrow]

what about a good ole fashioned sundial? never breaks down, unless its cloudy. or at night. :D and a rooster to wake everyone up?

[Soyuz]

what about a good ole fashioned sundial? never breaks down, unless its cloudy. or at night. :D and a rooster to wake everyone up?
I took one. And I can't believe how much stuff I forgot, and still am. Some things I remembered:
- sharpening stones
- Poleroid camera + 40 slides
- pH meter
- radioactivity meter
- thermometer (1 for outside and 1 for body)
- several bike wheels (you wouldn't know how hard it is to make a perfect circle)
- an actual bike

[Forum Lurker]

- several bike wheels (you wouldn't know how hard it is to make a perfect circle)
This is why we invented lathes, and why I took one with me. Still, the more the merrier; bikes are a magnificent way to convert musclepower into useful forms.

[Doctor What]

I've decided to join this little game--hell, I've been posting here so often, might as well make it official, right? :)

My list of items is like Psychomeltdown's list with the following changes

-Pregnant cat (Mynx)
-Carrying only half of the weapons that are on the list. I have zero experience with weapons and I can guarantee you that I'll probably be more of a menace than an asset with any gun you put in my hand until I get some extensive training from someone. With the assload of weapons that was brought over by everyone, my minor reduction shouldn't be that much of a problem on the group. Besides--the wife is a vegetarian so odds are that I'll be one within a year or so anyway :rolleyes:

This reduction in weapons frees up about 100 pounds or so. Psycho mentioned that even with that list he still had about 80 pounds or so allotment left over. So let's say roughly 200 pounds freed up.

Add this to the list:
1 40 lb iron stove
30 lbs Grape Cuttings and Vines
40 lbs books (anthropology/archaeology/ancient cultures)
1 bottle of 100 year old scotch
10 bottles of 10 year old scotch
10 bottles of red wine
10 bottles of white wine
20 lbs hard cheese
20 lbs hard salami
20 lbs olive oil

I might be a bit over but I think that about covers it.

[Flocculencio]

1 bottle of 100 year old scotch


Y' know since the ASB's will provide, why don't you ask for 11 bottles of 100-year old scotch?

[jolo]

I've decided to join this little game--hell, I've been posting here so often, might as well make it official, right? :)

My list of items is like Psychomeltdown's list with the following changes

-Pregnant cat (Mynx)
-Carrying only half of the weapons that are on the list. I have zero experience with weapons and I can guarantee you that I'll probably be more of a menace than an asset with any gun you put in my hand until I get some extensive training from someone. With the assload of weapons that was brought over by everyone, my minor reduction shouldn't be that much of a problem on the group. Besides--the wife is a vegetarian so odds are that I'll be one within a year or so anyway :rolleyes:

This reduction in weapons frees up about 100 pounds or so. Psycho mentioned that even with that list he still had about 80 pounds or so allotment left over. So let's say roughly 200 pounds freed up.

Add this to the list:
1 40 lb iron stove
30 lbs Grape Cuttings and Vines
40 lbs books (anthropology/archaeology/ancient cultures)
1 bottle of 100 year old scotch
10 bottles of 10 year old scotch
10 bottles of red wine
10 bottles of white wine
20 lbs hard cheese
20 lbs hard salami
20 lbs olive oil

I might be a bit over but I think that about covers it.

I forgot cheese - you can have a fertile egg if I can have 1 pound of it, okey? :)

[Psychomeltdown]

I forgot cheese - you can have a fertile egg if I can have 1 pound of it, okey? :)
Jolo's laying eggs now??? :p

What some one should bring is one of those sprays that keeps bears away, was it pepper spray? I forget.

[Doctor What]

Y' know since the ASB's will provide, why don't you ask for 11 bottles of 100-year old scotch?

Feeling a bit thirsty, Floc? ;)

100 year old stuff is for very special occasions--10 year old stuff is for general everyday stuff--plus I plan on making my own in the next few years ;)

[Psychomeltdown]

Y' know since the ASB's will provide, why don't you ask for 11 bottles of 100-year old scotch?
Ward had him and What drinking a bottle of 100 yr old scotch.

hence the addition to the list, me thinks.

[jolo]

Jolo's laying eggs now??? :p

What some one should bring is one of those sprays that keeps bears away, was it pepper spray? I forget.

You can use the hair spray of my wife - it keeps me away... :P

[Doctor What]

Ward had him and What drinking a bottle of 100 yr old scotch.

hence the addition to the list, me thinks.

Exacto-mondo....

[jolo]

Made a preliminary list of the stuff we brought along for a project I'm working on. It's based mainly on this threat. It includes a few surprises, but also lots of potential errors. Please help correct those.

It's a csv-file.

[Glen]

Made a preliminary list of the stuff we brought along for a project I'm working on. It's based mainly on this threat. It includes a few surprises, but also lots of potential errors. Please help correct those.

It's a csv-file.

I can't seem to get it to come out right. Could you just cut and paste the text into a post?

[jolo]

"Item";"lbs";"Amount";"Weight";"Projection";"Per person";
"food'n'stuff";1;5000;5000;200000;312,5;"Some weights are guessed and 1 lbs might include bigger containers"
"seeds/plants";1;2500;2500;100000;156,25;"Lots of rounding"
"weapons'n'stuff";1;2500;2500;100000;156,25;
"fishing (for 1 person)";10;16;160;640;1;"640 People could go fishing/angling. But pros handle several poles"
"health";1;1000;1000;40000;62,5;"I suppose some people followed Glen's advice. Still very little"
"hygiene";1;1000;1000;40000;62,5;"I suppose some let their wives help. Still very little"
"gear/survival";1;1600;1600;64000;100;"Includes horse tacks, very few"
"tools, hardware...";1;4300;4300;172000;268,75;"More than enough"
"cooking'n'stuff";1;700;700;28000;43,75;
"sewing'n'stuff";1;150;150;6000;9,375;"Very little"
"clothing";1;2000;2000;80000;125;
"small tent";10;14;140;560;0,875;
"medium tent";40;4;160;160;0,25;
"large tent";100;3;300;120;0,1875;
"stove40";40;14;560;560;0,875;"I suppose 1 brought only a kit, big families both kinds, 1 the big kind"
"stove300";300;2;600;40;0,125;"I suppose 1 in 16 followed Ward's advice"
"Chainsaw";20;2;40;40;0,125;"Found only mine in the list, but lots of people said they'd bring one"
"wagon 400x4";400;1;400;20;0,0625;
"wagon 300x4";300;1;300;20;0,0625;
"wagon 300x2";300;1;300;20;0,0625;
"wagon 100x4";100;1;100;20;0,0625;
"trailer 150x2";150;1;150;1;0,0625;"Exception to the rule as most people won't consider it necessary"
"sailing boat";100;1;100;20;0,0625;
"UL plane";200;1;200;20;0,0625;
"fuel, mineral oil...";1;230;230;9200;14,375;"Very little"
"blankets, pillows...";1;300;300;12000;18,75;"Very little"
"chairs'n'stuff";10;12;120;480;0,75;"Very little"
"books'n'stuff";1;700;700;28000;43,75;"Enough for a big, a medium, and several small librairies"
"paper, pens...";1;158;158;6320;9,875;"Definitely very little"
"safe";100;1;100;40;0,0625;"Actually for books, but there'll be better uses"
"windmill";300;2;600;80;0,125;"I suppose 1 in 16 followed Ward's request for Windmills"
"generator";50;3;150;120;0,1875;
"radio";3;24;72;960;1,5;"I suppose 1 in 16 followed Ward's advice for the radios"
"music";10;4;40;160;0,25;
"coins";1;10;10;400;0,625;"Also some bills (""coupons""). More was said - but not in the list"
"computer'n'stuff";4;5;20;200;0,3125;
"other";1;1400;1400;56000;87,5;"Among them 1.5 19th century chemical labs"
;;;;;;
;;;28160;;1760;"I didn't follow all the ""I take this list, but..."", the margin of error is big"
;;;;;;
;;;;;;
"People";;16;1760;;;"Above 1340 lbs because of 3(?) family members at 140 lbs"
"Total members";;694;;;;"3180 people, of which about 180 left us"
"Factor";43,375;40;;;;"Rounded to factor 40 and 640 members for simplicity and smaller lists"
"Factor for special items";;20;;;;"People who didn't post might have mainly standard stuff"
;;;;;;
;;;;;;"""I suppose"" means, I increased numbers to above what I found"
;;;;;;

At your service :)

[Chingo360]

"Item";"lbs";"Amount";"Weight";"Projection";"Per person";
"food'n'stuff";1;5000;5000;200000;312,5;"Some weights are guessed and 1 lbs might include bigger containers"
"seeds/plants";1;2500;2500;100000;156,25;"Lots of rounding"
"weapons'n'stuff";1;2500;2500;100000;156,25;
"fishing (for 1 person)";10;16;160;640;1;"640 People could go fishing/angling. But pros handle several poles"
"health";1;1000;1000;40000;62,5;"I suppose some people followed Glen's advice. Still very little"
"hygiene";1;1000;1000;40000;62,5;"I suppose some let their wives help. Still very little"
"gear/survival";1;1600;1600;64000;100;"Includes horse tacks, very few"
"tools, hardware...";1;4300;4300;172000;268,75;"More than enough"
"cooking'n'stuff";1;700;700;28000;43,75;
"sewing'n'stuff";1;150;150;6000;9,375;"Very little"
"clothing";1;2000;2000;80000;125;
"small tent";10;14;140;560;0,875;
"medium tent";40;4;160;160;0,25;
"large tent";100;3;300;120;0,1875;
"stove40";40;14;560;560;0,875;"I suppose 1 brought only a kit, big families both kinds, 1 the big kind"
"stove300";300;2;600;40;0,125;"I suppose 1 in 16 followed Ward's advice"
"Chainsaw";20;2;40;40;0,125;"Found only mine in the list, but lots of people said they'd bring one"
"wagon 400x4";400;1;400;20;0,0625;
"wagon 300x4";300;1;300;20;0,0625;
"wagon 300x2";300;1;300;20;0,0625;
"wagon 100x4";100;1;100;20;0,0625;
"trailer 150x2";150;1;150;1;0,0625;"Exception to the rule as most people won't consider it necessary"
"sailing boat";100;1;100;20;0,0625;
"UL plane";200;1;200;20;0,0625;
"fuel, mineral oil...";1;230;230;9200;14,375;"Very little"
"blankets, pillows...";1;300;300;12000;18,75;"Very little"
"chairs'n'stuff";10;12;120;480;0,75;"Very little"
"books'n'stuff";1;700;700;28000;43,75;"Enough for a big, a medium, and several small librairies"
"paper, pens...";1;158;158;6320;9,875;"Definitely very little"
"safe";100;1;100;40;0,0625;"Actually for books, but there'll be better uses"
"windmill";300;2;600;80;0,125;"I suppose 1 in 16 followed Ward's request for Windmills"
"generator";50;3;150;120;0,1875;
"radio";3;24;72;960;1,5;"I suppose 1 in 16 followed Ward's advice for the radios"
"music";10;4;40;160;0,25;
"coins";1;10;10;400;0,625;"Also some bills (""coupons""). More was said - but not in the list"
"computer'n'stuff";4;5;20;200;0,3125;
"other";1;1400;1400;56000;87,5;"Among them 1.5 19th century chemical labs"
;;;;;;
;;;28160;;1760;"I didn't follow all the ""I take this list, but..."", the margin of error is big"
;;;;;;
;;;;;;
"People";;16;1760;;;"Above 1340 lbs because of 3(?) family members at 140 lbs"
"Total members";;694;;;;"3180 people, of which about 180 left us"
"Factor";43,375;40;;;;"Rounded to factor 40 and 640 members for simplicity and smaller lists"
"Factor for special items";;20;;;;"People who didn't post might have mainly standard stuff"
;;;;;;
;;;;;;"""I suppose"" means, I increased numbers to above what I found"
;;;;;;

At your service :)

what exactly is that supposed to be, well i know what it is, but why did you use ;;;;;;, it gives me a headache lol:)

[jolo]

what exactly is that supposed to be, well i know what it is, but why did you use ;;;;;;, it gives me a headache lol:)

With the ";" it can simply be copied into most spreadsheets and look fine.

[Ward]

With the ";" it can simply be copied into most spreadsheets and look fine.


I know that my list was on a spreed sheet also .

[Chingo360]

oh you copied the spreasheet, gotcha, it just looked weird at the beginning

[jolo]

Can I consider the lack of additional response as a sign that the list is generally more or less accepted? Even including the 20 UL's and the 19 additional boats? (The latter would also be handy to avoid building dugouts)

[Chingo360]

the list is fine with me

[SionEwig]

Can I consider the lack of additional response as a sign that the list is generally more or less accepted? Even including the 20 UL's and the 19 additional boats? (The latter would also be handy to avoid building dugouts)

Are you trying to say that overall, those are much of the items that people originally brought? And how are you figuring this (what is your methodology)? Just asking, not challenging.

[Norbert]

jolo, if that list is for the resupply, ok. If not, it is to late for it.

[jolo]

Are you trying to say that overall, those are much of the items that people originally brought? And how are you figuring this (what is your methodology)? Just asking, not challenging.

I went through the whole list, counting the items. After the list got longer, I began to put items into categories (other, gear, tools...). I tried to track the changes people made to their wish list. I also tried to track references in a few cases (I take this list, but...). I filled small lists with the stuff people said they'd use the remaining allowance for. 16 people (a few other lists were too incomplete for me to bother with tracking them) had lists I could easily compile (with certain margins of error, as I went through all the items pretty quickly). After I was finished, there was much less weight than was allowed (partly because I didn't follow the references very well - I tried to be fast), so I filled the remains with likely items - from a gut feeling I developed about the different lists (another source for errors), and with lots of rounding.

After I was finished, I projected the results to our whole group (the numbers I used can be found at the bottom of the spread sheet). I rounded that number down to 40 to account for incomplete lists by some people, as would probably be the case if such a thing really happened. The multiplier for some items was further reduced to account for the missed lists (usually only a copy of Psychos list with minor changes), and for the fact that most non-posters imo might not bother with fancy equipment.

A quick-and-dirty approach which all in all should lead to acceptable results, though.

Error I realized by now: There's only 17 instead of 24 radios, as anyone following wards advice would probably not have such a big family. Let's assume 3 people. Multiplied by 40, that's 680 radios for 3180 people.

Other potential errors: There might be much more wagons and other large equipment, as those numbers were rounded down a lot. There might be a few people joining to have big items like tractors or the likes if this had really happened (though I was more or less the only one advocating this). In reality, some people would bring completely useless stuff - especially among the non-posters, as those are even less than us in the know what might be useful. Most of those errors would reduce food, gear, weapons, and "other" weights.

[jolo]

jolo, if that list is for the resupply, ok. If not, it is to late for it.

How about you quit spoiling the fun for all of us, just because a few things don't fit your ideas how this sim should be run? Or do you prefer to continue playing the game more or less alone?

I prefer a consensus about it. I also believe it's never too late to add a few extras to the story line or to retcon a few minor things.

Also, what's so bad about us agreeing on what was actually brought along - even if a little bit late in the game? What's so good about playing the game with only half of what was *realistically* in the first supply?

Imo, you act not very sportsmen-like.

[Norbert]

How about you quit spoiling the fun for all of us, just because a few things don't fit your ideas how this sim should be run? Or do you prefer to continue playing the game more or less alone?

I prefer a consensus about it. I also believe it's never too late to add a few extras to the story line or to retcon a few minor things.

Also, what's so bad about us agreeing on what was actually brought along - even if a little bit late in the game? What's so good about playing the game with only half of what was *realistically* in the first supply?

Imo, you act not very sportsmen-like.

I was willing to let it slid until it was mentioned by other people. As I said, no on the retcon, but theyy can be in the resupply. It has been over two months since this started, in my opinion it is to late to say something was brought initially. But, on the other hand, the resupply allows for the initial mistakes to be corrected. I do not give a damn about sportsmanship, I do care that others have been willing to stick to what they initially brought, and were willing to make up for their mistakes in a manner which does not bend the possibilities of life.

Or, as an example, you are driving down a road with nothing around for miles. You get a flat tire. You have no spare tire with you (an oversite initally). In REAL life, can you retcon yourself so you have a spare tire? No. The time has come and gone for the initial equipment list to be modified. The time will soon be gone for the equipment in the resupply list to be modified. I was fair when I said you could have that stuff in the resupply. If you do not like it, and do not like the idea of using reality, such as it is, as a guide, you better figure out a better argument.

[Glen]

No retcon. Can adjust things with the resupply if necessary. However, it is reasonable to 'assume' some more things than were generally mentioned previously, just so long as they do not contradict outright what has already been determined.

Such as my advising the bringing of aluminum boats and fishing nets....:rolleyes:

[jolo]

I was willing to let it slid until it was mentioned by other people. As I said, no on the retcon, but theyy can be in the resupply. It has been over two months since this started, in my opinion it is to late to say something was brought initially. But, on the other hand, the resupply allows for the initial mistakes to be corrected. I do not give a damn about sportsmanship, I do care that others have been willing to stick to what they initially brought, and were willing to make up for their mistakes in a manner which does not bend the possibilities of life.

Or, as an example, you are driving down a road with nothing around for miles. You get a flat tire. You have no spare tire with you (an oversite initally). In REAL life, can you retcon yourself so you have a spare tire? No. The time has come and gone for the initial equipment list to be modified. The time will soon be gone for the equipment in the resupply list to be modified. I was fair when I said you could have that stuff in the resupply. If you do not like it, and do not like the idea of using reality, such as it is, as a guide, you better figure out a better argument.

Except that I'm the one sticking to reality, by using a list created 2 months ago.

If there's any retcon, then just to correct what we did wrong not realizing our actual first supply - not to change the actual supply.

It's more like waiting three hours for help while a replacement tire was right in the car, if I may use your example. Those 3 hours can then be retconned with no wait, with overlooking the tire, or with unloading everything before the tire is found - to avoid unneccessary conflicts with the the rest of the story, and to make the story *more* realistic.

[jolo]

No retcon. Can adjust things with the resupply if necessary. However, it is reasonable to 'assume' some more things than were generally mentioned previously, just so long as they do not contradict outright what has already been determined.

Such as my advising the bringing of aluminum boats and fishing nets....:rolleyes:

Sorry for overlooking that one - could have saved me all the trouble with the dugouts... :o

I'll leave it completely up to you guys how the first supply affects the story - Imo, it's not too late to add some new aspects even to the first week, as long as they don't contradict the other parts. And as there has not been much more than the Trek for the main settlement yet, no reason for Norbert to panic...

[SionEwig]

Jolo,

If you had brought up this idea much earlier (both In Game Time and Real Time), I would have probably supported much of what you are proposing. However, since so much time has passed especially In Game, I think that so much of a Retrocon is a bad idea.

Though you have used a mostly reasoned metodology to get the list, I really think that trying to use the ratios for an overall equipment list is not that well thought out. For those items not brought, if people had wanted to bring them they had more than enough opportunity to do so. We posted and modified personal lists time and time again. If any list was heavily used and copied, it was Psychomeltdown's. Remember, the only reason Ward was able to bring as much as he did was due to Clan Ward. Also several items MAY have been posted by some people due to others giving over extra weight (Shadestorm or whatever his name was as well as others). Also there was around 6000 lbs initially given over for Group gear (mostly to Ward to determine what was brought) by many of us giving 10 lbs from each "Family" unit.

If this fairly major Retrocon is allowed by the Moderators, it will need to be divided amongst the several different groups, not just those at Fort Ian and those at Ardenwood but also the Conquistadors, the Original Homesteaders, and the Second Homesteaders.

As far as game conduct is concerned, a number of the items would have made big changes in how things have been done so far. One chainsaw alone will make very little overall difference, but multiple of them would have made a large difference. The Ultra-lights would have made a major difference thus far. That many radios would have also made a big difference, IIRC the 6 my family brought and those that Ward brought are not compatable btw.

Overall, I'm not saying that you had a bad idea here, just it would have been better brought up much sooner. Now I feel that it is mostly too late.

[jolo]

Jolo,

If you had brought up this idea much earlier (both In Game Time and Real Time), I would have probably supported much of what you are proposing. However, since so much time has passed especially In Game, I think that so much of a Retrocon is a bad idea.

Though you have used a mostly reasoned metodology to get the list, I really think that trying to use the ratios for an overall equipment list is not that well thought out. For those items not brought, if people had wanted to bring them they had more than enough opportunity to do so. We posted and modified personal lists time and time again. If any list was heavily used and copied, it was Psychomeltdown's. Remember, the only reason Ward was able to bring as much as he did was due to Clan Ward. Also several items MAY have been posted by some people due to others giving over extra weight (Shadestorm or whatever his name was as well as others). Also there was around 6000 lbs initially given over for Group gear (mostly to Ward to determine what was brought) by many of us giving 10 lbs from each "Family" unit.

If this fairly major Retrocon is allowed by the Moderators, it will need to be divided amongst the several different groups, not just those at Fort Ian and those at Ardenwood but also the Conquistadors, the Original Homesteaders, and the Second Homesteaders.

As far as game conduct is concerned, a number of the items would have made big changes in how things have been done so far. One chainsaw alone will make very little overall difference, but multiple of them would have made a large difference. The Ultra-lights would have made a major difference thus far. That many radios would have also made a big difference, IIRC the 6 my family brought and those that Ward brought are not compatable btw.

Overall, I'm not saying that you had a bad idea here, just it would have been better brought up much sooner. Now I feel that it is mostly too late.

I agree with you that we should limit any retcons as much as possible. But I also believe we should play realistically. Some stuff might not have been unpacked yet, others might have been in use and just not mentioned, a few unimportant numbers (like mapped area) might be corrected, and so on. The first settlement would be more affected, but there weren't many posts yet from that. The main settlement would be hardly affected, except that there are a few more wagons, and realistically, maybe a few less being built, or the numbers of wagons built simply includes the ones being assembled from the first supply. And so on. Nothing complicated, nothing which affects anyone much.

All I want, is an agreement of what we have - because the first settlement is affected by that a lot. I don't even care what the result of those agreements is. That's completely up to you.

The radios for instance - why do they affect us? The guards did use radio anyways, and the others might or might not have - the lumberjacks (I'm thinking about calling for medical help without radio in one post) might not have carried them along, as they were usually close to the camp anyways. Batteries and power generators were also a problem at the beginning.

I did mostly factor-in that Groups are differently large - the 16 people should also be fairly representative of that.

How about having just one UL, which no-one dared to use yet after the owner (Napoleon?) was convinced by his family to let it be? Would allow for a few nice future posts...

[SionEwig]

With the radios, I think that 680 originally is simply way too many. Perhaps 68 would be a fair number. Though we would need to determine what type they were sine, like I said earlier, I think that Ward's and mine are not compatable.

Now, how important would they have been. The only real place that it has been talked about is on the very first scouting trip, when I took 3 of my families radios with us. It would have been very useful to have had more since we ended up with groups of people out there without communications. We really did not talk about it much more in posts, but there were comments PMed back and forth about it especially during the second scouting trip, and as part of the planning for the Trek. There were also some comments about how useful radio communication would have been during the Great Hunt.

As to the Ultra Light, there was quite a bit of discussion on this very early, when everyone was still planning what we were bringing and at that time, the vast majority felt that we could simply not afford the weight. Different possibilities with the Resupply. Napoleon was one of the Original Homesteaders who left the group on Day 1. IIRC, he had his wagon wreck somewhere many miles away and as he last left it, he was being nursed back to health in one of the Native villages somewhere.

[jolo]

With the radios, I think that 680 originally is simply way too many. Perhaps 68 would be a fair number. Though we would need to determine what type they were sine, like I said earlier, I think that Ward's and mine are not compatable.

Now, how important would they have been. The only real place that it has been talked about is on the very first scouting trip, when I took 3 of my families radios with us. It would have been very useful to have had more since we ended up with groups of people out there without communications. We really did not talk about it much more in posts, but there were comments PMed back and forth about it especially during the second scouting trip, and as part of the planning for the Trek. There were also some comments about how useful radio communication would have been during the Great Hunt.

As to the Ultra Light, there was quite a bit of discussion on this very early, when everyone was still planning what we were bringing and at that time, the vast majority felt that we could simply not afford the weight. Different possibilities with the Resupply. Napoleon was one of the Original Homesteaders who left the group on Day 1. IIRC, he had his wagon wreck somewhere many miles away and as he last left it, he was being nursed back to health in one of the Native villages somewhere.

68 radios is ok with me - maybe 30 in military frequencies, 20 in citizen band, 10 digital ones (?), and 8 analog for all frequencies.

1 UL, out of reach of our settlements atm, is also OK with me.

[SionEwig]

68 radios is ok with me - maybe 30 in military frequencies, 20 in citizen band, 10 digital ones (?), and 8 analog for all frequencies.

1 UL, out of reach of our settlements atm, is also OK with me.

As per Glen's comment

No retcon. Can adjust things with the resupply if necessary. However, it is reasonable to 'assume' some more things than were generally mentioned previously, just so long as they do not contradict outright what has already been determined.

Such as my advising the bringing of aluminum boats and fishing nets....:rolleyes:

Until Glen says that there are more radios, then the only ones we have are mine and Wards. The number I stated was simply what I thought was a reasonable number IF more were added, nothing else. And of course the new radios will need to be divided amongst the various groups.

[Ward]

As per Glen's comment



Until Glen says that there are more radios, then the only ones we have are mine and Wards. The number I stated was simply what I thought was a reasonable number IF more were added, nothing else. And of course the new radios will need to be divided amongst the various groups.



I was loaning out 1 radio to the members of the councal , and the working partys like the wood cuters who had one , and the Builders who had one .

I was very stringed with them but figuted they were needed and took one for every one in my party over 6 years old .

[SionEwig]

I was loaning out 1 radio to the members of the councal , and the working partys like the wood cuters who had one , and the Builders who had one .

I was very stringed with them but figuted they were needed and took one for every one in my party over 6 years old .

That is pretty much the way I went with them, 1 per person, 6 total. And during the Trek, all of them were loaned out.

What kind did you take?

[Ward]

That is pretty much the way I went with them, 1 per person, 6 total. And during the Trek, all of them were loaned out.

What kind did you take?



actuly we took 11 Radios The wife and 3 daughter in laws and oldest Gtanddaughter , myself, 3 sons and my son in law . These are the Tac radios that the military uses .