ALT What We are taking with us.

[Ward]

Ok People we are ready to start the Game


The ASB are leting us take 1 Large Animal and 1 med Animal Per member of the Board .

We are allowed 1,200 Lbs for the large Animal . And 100 lbs for everyone who is coming over with us . We are also alowed 40Lbs for each Aduilt that comes along that they can carry besides this is clothing and any small animals we want to carry plus any other ideams we want to carry .

Rember if you live at home your parents and siblings are comeing along also.
If you have children and Grand children they are comeing also .

If you live alone you may bring a clone of any one member of the opposit sex with you . That is is you are over 18 years old .

So start listing what you and your family group will bring and who you are bring with you .

Rember the ASB Will move what we list on skids to are site . But they will mark are names on are skids so we can only unload are own skids .

[SionEwig]

Ok People we are ready to start the Game


The ASB are leting us take 1 Large Animal and 1 med Animal Per member of the Board .

We are allowed 1,200 Lbs for the large Animal . And 100 lbs for everyone who is coming over with us . We are also alowed 40Lbs for each Aduilt that comes along that they can carry besides this is clothing and any small animals we want to carry plus any other ideams we want to carry .

Rember if you live at home your parents and siblings are comeing along also.
If you have children and Grand children they are comeing also .

If you live alone you may bring a clone of any one member of the opposit sex with you . That is is you are over 18 years old .

So start listing what you and your family group will bring and who you are bring with you .

Rember the ASB Will move what we list on skids to are site . But they will mark are names on are skids so we can only unload are own skids .

Ok, I'll start off with at least the "Who" in my family.

Myself and wife, 4 sons ages 6 - 10.

As far as stuff, I'll have to get back later on that. If I am reading what you wrote correctly (an I could be off, having a particularly dense day), my family would have 1800 lbs (that we do not have to be physically carrying at the cross over), another 80 lbs (that we would be carrying), 1 large animal, and an unspecified number of small animals.

Is that the correct amount? You are not really clear in that last sentence where you list the weights.

[Dave Howery]

4 sons?! Damn, you got yourself an advantage right off the bat there... :)

although finding wives for them all later might be tough...

[Ward]

Ok, I'll start off with at least the "Who" in my family.

Myself and wife, 4 sons ages 6 - 10.

As far as stuff, I'll have to get back later on that. If I am reading what you wrote correctly (an I could be off, having a particularly dense day), my family would have 1800 lbs (that we do not have to be physically carrying at the cross over), another 80 lbs (that we would be carrying), 1 large animal, and an unspecified number of small animals.

Is that the correct amount? You are not really clear in that last sentence where you list the weights.


There is an Extra 40 lbs per aduilt that they will be carring as they cross over . This should be at less one weapon and a lunch for your family . It will take you a while to find your own skids of ideams .This also includes your clothing . Your boys have the clothing you and your wife had them put on .
Also if you want and you have a pet that weights under 20 lbs or a couple of chickens .

[SionEwig]

Just some food for thought while looking at what to bring.

What time of year will we be arriving?

I think that there might need to be a reconsideration of the weight limit. Looking at food alone a large amount of the weight allowance will need to be alloted to that.

Using my family as an example - 2 adults and 4 children

2 MREs per day for the adults and 1 per day for the children comes to 8 MREs per day, and at 2 lbs/MRE this comes to 16 lbs/day, 480 lbs/30 days.

I really recommend more than 30 days of food per person. More like 90 - 120 days worth would be better. A large amount of the crops will not be producing until 60 plus days from planting, and that assumes that we get there during growing season (March through December). We could have to wait 60 plus days before the new growing season starts. As an aside, 1 January would be my suggestion. While we will probably be able forage and hunt some to suppliment the supplies, I wouldn't count on it. It is much better to be ready to supply our own food and have some left over than not have enough to start with.

Back to the example above, 120 days of food for my family would be 1920 lbs (which is 40 lbs over the weight allowance of 1880 lbs if my understanding of that was correct).

Just think on it.

[Ward]

Just some food for thought while looking at what to bring.

What time of year will we be arriving?

I think that there might need to be a reconsideration of the weight limit. Looking at food alone a large amount of the weight allowance will need to be alloted to that.

Using my family as an example - 2 adults and 4 children

2 MREs per day for the adults and 1 per day for the children comes to 8 MREs per day, and at 2 lbs/MRE this comes to 16 lbs/day, 480 lbs/30 days.

I really recommend more than 30 days of food per person. More like 90 - 120 days worth would be better. A large amount of the crops will not be producing until 60 plus days from planting, and that assumes that we get there during growing season (March through December). We could have to wait 60 plus days before the new growing season starts. As an aside, 1 January would be my suggestion. While we will probably be able forage and hunt some to suppliment the supplies, I wouldn't count on it. It is much better to be ready to supply our own food and have some left over than not have enough to start with.

Back to the example above, 120 days of food for my family would be 1920 lbs (which is 40 lbs over the weight allowance of 1880 lbs if my understanding of that was correct).

Just think on it.


I know thats light but thats better then we were going to start with wich was what we could carry .

Flour and beens, also pennutbutter will help out in the weight . There are better meals out there then MRE's . Check out some of the hiking and backpaking foods .

[General_Paul]

General_Paul's list:

Large Animal: Mustang Horse
Medium Animal: Labrador Retriever (black)

Family to be taken: None
Women to be taken: None. I don't need the companionship, unless I can get myself a clone of lindsay lohan, then I'd be good to go...

Items to carry: Mauser K-98 bolt action rifle.
500 rounds for Mauser
Colt 1911 Semi-Autmatic
10 clips and 150 rounds

Food- 150 lbs. worth of food.

Misc. Items-

Axe- two handed for chopping down small-medium trees
Hunting Knife
Bastard Sword (for when ammo runs out)
Books- hard decision, but I'd choose 15 hardbacks, including the entire set of Churchill's History of the English Speaking peoples, and his history of the second world war, and 30 paperbacks, including smaller novellas, and larger paperbacks. And of course a copy fo the book "How Things Work", that thing has a diagram of EVERYTHING.
Seeds- 30 lbs. worth of seeds.
Anything else is secondary.

[Ward]

General_Paul's list:

Large Animal: Mustang Horse
Medium Animal: Labrador Retriever (black)

Family to be taken: None
Women to be taken: None. I don't need the companionship, unless I can get myself a clone of lindsay lohan, then I'd be good to go...

Items to carry: Mauser K-98 bolt action rifle.
500 rounds for Mauser
Colt 1911 Semi-Autmatic
10 clips and 150 rounds

Food- 150 lbs. worth of food.

Misc. Items-

Axe- two handed for chopping down small-medium trees
Hunting Knife
Bastard Sword (for when ammo runs out)
Books- hard decision, but I'd choose 15 hardbacks, including the entire set of Churchill's History of the English Speaking peoples, and his history of the second world war, and 30 paperbacks, including smaller novellas, and larger paperbacks. And of course a copy fo the book "How Things Work", that thing has a diagram of EVERYTHING.
Seeds- 30 lbs. worth of seeds.
Anything else is secondary.



well you will get a clone of her to come with you. GP
Also you have more weight of iteams to come . Please bring your full weight amount .

[Norbert]

Ok, so there is myself and ??? Can I have the wife I had when I played myself in an RPG? She was a real survivor (good looking too...):p (come to think of it, she did seem to have a thing for gelding knives...:o )

Animals:
1 Female Morgan Horse.
1 Female Angorra Goat.

Other Gear: I will have to work on that one (time to get out the lists and catalogs:D )

[Ward]

Well I'm bring a Bull for my large animal and a female Goat.
Totol weight I can Bring is 2800lbs

My wife will be with me as will be my 2 aduilt sons and there Wifes , My married daughter and her husban , my 16 year old son a 14 year old grand daughter , 8 year old Grand daughter , 7 year old Grandson , 6 year old grand daughter , 5 year old Grand son , 2,1/2 year old Granddaughter . and 1 year old grand son.

600 lbs of Food in Caning jars 50lbs worth of Rubbergaskets for them.
100 lbs of Flour in plastic Bins , 100 lbs of of Beens , 100lbs of spices
2 x foot power sawing machines 90 lbs together
1 plow 100 lbs
1 manual Washing machine 47lbs
4x push scythes 15lbs each 60 lbs
1x 1900 carpiter chest of tools 80 lbs
1x tent 105 lbs this tent is 20x 12 with floor and able to take a wood stove in it .
1 packers wood stove 45 lbs with pipes to go out through the tent.
11x Covered cots 5 lbs each 55 lbs
a hand powered seed drill 12 lbs
sausage stuffer 25lbs
2 meat Glinders 10 lbs each
6 shovels 3 lbs each 18lbs 6 holes 3 lbs each 18 lbs , 6x post hoe digers 3 lbs each 18lbs , 6 x picks 6 lbs each 36lbs , 6x pitch forks 3 lbs each 18lbs.
10 x Axes 3 lbs each 30lbs , 6ft two men saws x 2 5 lbs each 10 lbs ,
200 lbs of seeds ,
4x wheel barows . 15lbs each 60lbs
8 54 cal hawkings rifles 6 lbs each 48lbs 100 lbs of powder 50 lbs of shot.
12 x blackhawk 357 pistols 4lbs each 48 lbs 50 lbs of rounds (1250)
12 x 22 rifles 3 lbs each 36lbs and 74 lbs of 22 rounds (8500)
100 lbs of pots and pans and dishs.
100 lbs of soaps , 20 lbs of wax , 20 lbs of candle holders , 10lbso of candles.
20 lbs of sewing supply , and 80 lbs of cloth .
60 lbs of bedding .
6x grub hoe 6lbs eash 36lbs
4 x springfield 1903 9lbs each 36lbs 99lbs of ammo (1500)
50lbs of screws,50lbs of nails.
6x sapers 3lbs eash 18lbs
50lbs 3/4 in coper pipe 20lbs of fittigs.
88lbs of cothing

[Forum Lurker]

Let's see: Family size is one Forum Lurker with significant other (ASB-cloned), no minor dependents.

Large animal is one Guernsey cow, pregnant.
Small animal is one Rhode Island Red hen, pregnant.

Equipment includes:
One set nested aluminum cookware, including the pipes and seals necessary to operate as a still.
One hatchet with hammer back and prybar.
One shovel, spade-type blade.
One folding knife each, aluminum handle, 3.25 inch blade.
Set of binders containing, in laminated sheets on non-acidic paper, maps of local resources, world map (topographical and hydrographical), engineering details of basic industrial machines (steam engine, blast furnace, shuttle loom, etc.) including formulae and table of logarithms, graphic and text descriptions of human anatomy and disease, with treatment where possible at low tech level (particularly nutrition information), descriptions of domesticable North American species, cultivation instructions for these and for crops we have brought, complete Tanakh and Conservative Siddur with translation and transliteration.
One surgical kit.
Two lightweight cold-weather sleeping bags.
Two high-durability hunting crossbows, 100 broadheads.
Small footpedal lathe, disassembled.

The remainder of the capacity, including that in the cow-drawn cart, is given over to storage of dried but viable soybeans (30% by weight) and potatoes (70% by weight, 10% seed potatoes).

[Dave Howery]

descriptions of domesticable North American species,
that's a pretty short list... turkeys, llamas, guinea pigs. Plants: corn, squash, beans, tomatoes, potatoes... in general, it'd be better to bring these along instead of finding their wild ancestors... N. America kinda got shorted when it came to domesticable animals...

[Norbert]

Let's see: Family size is one Forum Lurker with significant other (ASB-cloned), no minor dependents.

OH NO!!!!! A female clone of Forum Lurker!!!!!:p

[Forum Lurker]

descriptions of domesticable North American species,
that's a pretty short list... turkeys, llamas, guinea pigs. Plants: corn, squash, beans, tomatoes, potatoes... in general, it'd be better to bring these along instead of finding their wild ancestors... N. America kinda got shorted when it came to domesticable animals...
Can you recognize the common bean in its wild form, during a season when the bean itself isn't growing? Pumpkins? I can't, and it's handy information. Remember, we're talking about a single laminated sheet of paper; not a huge expenditure for the potential return.

[jolo]

Me, my gf, a pregnant horse, a pregnant goat (no jokes please), 1400 lb of luggage, and 80 lb of hand luggage would come along.

All equipment is packed shock resistant, water tight and lighter than water - just in case.

Our clothes might be from a store for adventure tours, sports, hunting, or military clothes - protective, durable, and practical. Good isolation against rain, wind, and cold. Preferably 2 shirts each which protect agains knifes, arrows and maybe even some shooting (lots of young hunters around :) ). Watertight boots for each of us for fishing in colder water, for working in swamps, and the likes. A helmet each for riding, also resistant against arrows and the likes. A utility belt each, with some tools and weapons. A lightweight winter jacket each (we'll be able to produce leather jackets pretty soon). Scarves for any cold weather. A backpack with lots to eat and drink, a survival kit, and a big medikit each. A swimming vest each in case the landscape around Ians home has changed a lot - later for fishing on open water.

A lot of seeds for all kinds of useful plants - mostly food plants with high gain and little work. Also bamboo for pipes and sugar, cotton, flax, some fast growing trees, and so on. Preferrably long lasting seeds, to keep some in case the first one or two seasons go bad.

A lot of dry food, sugar, oil, and so on, mostly for calories - vitamins, minerals, and proteins will be available there. Some salt.

A box with fertile eggs of chicken and geese. A few thermometers to check the temperatures of the box, of people, of chemicals/water, on the outside, and so on. A bag for carrying the box under my clothes (I don't care how I look :) ).

A durable light weight tent with good isolation. 2 sleeping bags and 2 iso-matresses.

Lots of clothing - all of the practical and durable variant.

Lots of mostly thin wire for repairs, joints, and maybe later some electrics.

Ropes for constructing, building, transporting, climbing, and so on. A few linkages of different sizes.

Belts for transporting, for joints, for building equipment like a horse plow, and so on.

Different kinds of tape and glue.

Lots of strong threads, wool and ready made cloth to produce what we forgot, to repair clothes, to modify clothes and other equipment according to need, and so on. According needles and other tools.

A few gloves for hard work and cold weather.

Different durable shoes with steel caps, a few durable light weight shoes for long walks and climbing.

The usual hygiene and toilet articles. My gf will need quite a few hygiene articles - we'll also have to find some solutions for typical female problems - no underwear will probably not be too popular...

A flint stone, a lighter which can run on alcohol, a few candles, a dynamo light.

Diving goggles. A snorkel. A few inflatable matresses. A pump which can be used for air and water.

A simple lightweight saddle big enough for 2 people.

A good encyclopedia, a science dictionary, a math dictionary, an English dictionary, a dictionary for each of the languages I and my gf know, a book full of high resolution world maps (elevation and depth, climate, ressources, rivers, dams, channels, soil types, changes in sea levels...), a book of historic catastrophic events (floods, volcanoes, possible impacts) and climate changes (desertification, temperatures, rainfall...), lots of books with exact plans for all kinds of machinery and tools, engines, cars, and so on, a chemistry dictionary, a big book on medicine, a geologists handbook to identify different materials, a plant handbook to identify plants and their uses, a book on producing glass, mirrors and ceramics, a book on treating wood to produce large boards and paper, a book on optics and optical instruments, and a book on medieval technology (clothes, leather, glue, soap...).

A small notebook packed with all this and some more, as well as some useful programs for mapping, building, calculating, stats, bookkeeping, and so on. A wifi connection to the other computer users to exchange informations. A printer able to print on all kinds of paper - I might prefer an old needle printer, as they can be repaired locally, and any kind of ink can be used. Even better would be a type printer with a graphical type set - if that's available anywhere. Maybe even with it's own keyboard, in case the computer fails. Some normal paper and some carbon-copy paper would also be useful.

A few solar panels, light weight batteries, and other equipment to get a 110 volt electric system with lights, computer-equipment, battery chargers, a bench saw, a drill, a shaver, and so on, running. A few dynamos to collect wind and water energy. A turbine for a small hydroelectric system which should also be usable as a pump. Plastic pipes or hoses for a simple hydroelectric and running water system. Replacement parts for things we will not be able to produce soon. All in standards coordinated with the rest of you, so that we can exchange parts or make them work together.

A few digital watches. A few blankets. A few lamps and cables. A few rechargable flash lights of differing strength. Night vision goggles with rechargeable batteries. A binocular and a telescope. An eye-piece to build a mirror telescope.

Some dynamite or the likes for a little bit of terraforming.

Some syringes, some medical knifes, and other medical equipment. Quite a bit of medicine for common medical problems - fungicides, antibiotica, alcohol, and so on.

Some pens and pencils, empty notepads, and so on. Some chalk, a few small chalk boards, a few medium chalk boards, and maybe a larger light weight chalk board.

A big bunch of hard to fake coupons with differing face values, and customer cards for each of you. The coupons' value will be tagged to my inventory. Everything is given a buy and a sell value. When someone sells me something, he gets coupons or a credit on his customer account and can buy whatever he wants from me - then or later. Whenever someone buys something from me, he can use coupons or his customer account. A negative balance is allowed if I see chances to get the money back - either by depositing something, or by guaranteing with his property.

A collection of army knifes, a small and a big axe, a pick axe, a shovel, a spade, a plow, a scythe, a knife grinder.

The usual cook ware and some equipment to build a stove with an oven from stones or mud.

A rifle, 2 revolvers, lots of ammo, a good bow, a few arrows, a few spear tips, and a light dagger also come along.

A tool box with all kinds of suitable tools - mainly for wood, but also some for our machines, vehicles, and equipment. Manual drills and saws of all usual sizes. If there's enough weight left, maybe a really big saw, too - for big trees.

Lots of different kinds of nails, and some screws.

Lots of hinges for doors, windows, and so on. Some locks and keys.

A durable hand cart of simple built, so that damaged parts can be replaced easily.

A light weight horse cart.

A part of a vehicle for which others bring the remaining parts along - an earth mover, a tractor, a trailer, a truck, or the likes. Some diesel oil.

A kit to built a pedal driven rotary table for pottery and for crafting round things of wood.

A chain saw which runs on all kinds of flammable liquids, if possible, or at least the ones we can soon produce - oil or alcohol. Preferably of the same built as the ones other bring along, for spare parts.

Everything should be packed in reusable practical packaging - glass and plastic jars, canistars, containers, bags, and so on. A few cooling boxes running on 110 volts would also be practical.

Some equipment is omitted if at least 2 people bring it along and if I don't really need it personally.

My main profession will be trader - I'll also try to get electricity up and running to use or to sell it, a few fishponds in the back of my home, a lumber mill, and whatever else I figure out and have time for. My front yard will be a patio with small stores around, in which Indians and others can store and offer their goods. My gf will do some gardening, help me in the shop, and cut hair. As soon as possible, I'll help produce electrical and combustion engines, vehicles, and so on.

I hope I didn't forget too much. :)

[Darkest]

Electricity? Interesting...

I think someone should be given the job of going all out on electrical equipment. As many solar cell panels as possible, maybe some kind of set-it-up-yourself wind-powered generator, as well as maybe a computer that can be the information hub of the colony. Tons of information on how-to-do-stuff on CDs and downloaded. A television (we need to remember our culture) would be cool. And the rest should be refrigerators, really important that we have refrigeration, could come in handy. Other electrical equipment that would be important: a clock, maybe some medical/dental equipment, though that seems hard...

Oh man, what are we going to do about dentistry and orthodontics? Our kids are going to have some NASTY teeth, and so are we if we don't have good toothbrushes or toothpase.

[Dave Howery]

Can you recognize the common bean in its wild form, during a season when the bean itself isn't growing? Pumpkins? I can't, and it's handy information. Remember, we're talking about a single laminated sheet of paper; not a huge expenditure for the potential return.
actually, at this point in time, I'm not sure if any of these American plants have been domesticated... in which case, they'll be useless to us, as they'll have tiny seeds/fruit... they haven't been selectively bred into modern forms yet. Thus, we'd be better off just bringing modern seeds with us..

[Shadestorm]

My clone will be of Miranda Otto, and we will be able to carry 1,340 lbs. on our black female mustang horse. I'll bring along a red-tailed hawk. We'll bring saddle and saddlebags, 4 thick woven wool blankets, 4 fine cloth blankets, 3 Safari 550 DGR Rifles w/ fluted barrels and QD scope rings, 20 lbs. of 600 Gr. bullets, 3 Ruger hunting revolver w/ 10 lbs. of 45 Colt cartridges, and two satchels of flash grenades. I'll bring 5 lbs. of MREs, 30 lbs. of marijuana and 30 lbs. of opium in waterproof plastic containers, 20 lbs. of marijuana seed and 20 lbs. of poppy seeds in the same containers, 4 gas lighters, 4 flashlights w/ 10 changes of batteries, a large waterproof tarp, 20 ft. of heavy synthetic rope, 2 laser pointers, a boom-box and a case of rock and roll CDs w/ changes of batteries, and 2 cold-weather sleeping bags. We'll be wearing bullet-proof vests under camoflauge outfits, cold weather gear, digital watches with lifelong batteries, sunglasses, leather gloves, waterproof boots, and bringing 10 boxes of 3 Musketeer bars, 3 swiss army knives, 1 machete, a hatchet, and enough rope to tie it all to my horse.

[Ward]

My clone will be of Miranda Otto, and we will be able to carry 1,340 lbs. on our black female mustang horse. I'll bring along a red-tailed hawk. We'll bring saddle and saddlebags, 4 thick woven wool blankets, 4 fine cloth blankets, 3 Safari 550 DGR Rifles w/ fluted barrels and QD scope rings, 20 lbs. of 600 Gr. bullets, 3 Ruger hunting revolver w/ 10 lbs. of 45 Colt cartridges. I'll bring 5 lbs. of MREs, 30 lbs. of marijuana in waterproof plastic containers, 20 lbs. of marijuana seed in the same containers, 4 gas lighters, 4 flashlights w/ 10 changes of batteries, a large waterproof tarp, 20 ft. of heavy synthetic rope, 2 laser pointers, a boom-box and a case of rock and roll CDs w/ changes of batteries, and 2 cold-weather sleeping bags. We'll be wearing bullet-proof vests under camoflauge outfits, cold weather gear, digital watches with lifelong batteries, sunglasses, leather gloves, waterproof boots, and bringing 10 boxes of 3 Musketeer bars, 3 swiss army knives, 1 machete, and enough rope to tie it all to my horse.


Shadestorm you are about 900 lbs light . How about bring the Windmill it weighs in at 300 lbs and will pumb water . How about bring 100 lbs of salt and 100 lbs of peper and some tools you will need them to work the fields , and build your house .

[Shadestorm]

I'm not going to build a house. I need it to be light so I can ride away with it all packed onto my horse, ready to ride days away to the north. That's why I have 60 lbs. of both marijuana and opium, and enough seeds for the next crop. No one has drugs in the new world. That is, except me :) .

The natives'll love me. See ya later guys! Have fun building a 'community'! I'm off to start my drug empire and slave trade among the indians.

[Dave Howery]

and when they kill you and take all your stuff, we'll remember you with sadness and grief...

[Shadestorm]

That's what the hunting rifles, revolvers, flash grenades, flashlights, laser pointers, and boom box is for. I'll scare the holy living crap out of them; enough to let them know I'm a god. A god bringing salvation in the form of drugs.

[Norbert]

Here is a thought for you folk: Has anyone thought of light weight, portable musical instruments? Like guitars, violins? The first period of life after the ISOT will be hard work for everyone, but there is a need for people to blow off steam with things that are fun (A Dance?!). I do not know the backgrounds of most of you, but I seem to see myself teaching proper logging and clearing of land, having been taught to use a wide variety of looging tools, from chainsaws, axes, two-man crosscuts, peevies, etc. As well as how to safely snake logs out of logging areas. I also have been taught the 'old-fashioned' way to do work; even though my father was born in 1927, his father was born in 1889, and we learn skills from our mentors, and their skills reflect the ways of their mentors, and so on. Take it from an old fashioned farmer, who got off the farm because of to many aches and pains, We need to provide some sort of entertainment to relieve stress, or we will soon go for each others throats...

[Darkest]

My father is also has experience in woodcutting, so add that to my family's assets.

As for fun, we definitely ought to bring musical instruments, maybe even one per family, to create bands and have free time. That or equipment to paint pieces of art or sculpt or something...

[Dave Howery]

dang, what useful skills do I have? Well, I have a lot of broad knowledge that'd be useful, but not much in detail. My family raised pigs when I was a kid, but I happily forgot all of that when I graduated HS. Guess I could probably do it again, but I don't really know how I'd handle any diseases they'd get. I know something about gardening, and could probably succeed with that, with some appropriate books and trial and error. I've hunted deer and ducks back in my youth, but wouldn't really want to do that as a living. I'm afraid I'd be one of the grunts Ward would have to give lots of instruction to...

[Ward]

dang, what useful skills do I have? Well, I have a lot of broad knowledge that'd be useful, but not much in detail. My family raised pigs when I was a kid, but I happily forgot all of that when I graduated HS. Guess I could probably do it again, but I don't really know how I'd handle any diseases they'd get. I know something about gardening, and could probably succeed with that, with some appropriate books and trial and error. I've hunted deer and ducks back in my youth, but wouldn't really want to do that as a living. I'm afraid I'd be one of the grunts Ward would have to give lots of instruction to...


well I will teach you how to plow and take care of the the animals .

[jolo]

Here is a thought for you folk: Has anyone thought of light weight, portable musical instruments? Like guitars, violins? The first period of life after the ISOT will be hard work for everyone, but there is a need for people to blow off steam with things that are fun (A Dance?!). I do not know the backgrounds of most of you, but I seem to see myself teaching proper logging and clearing of land, having been taught to use a wide variety of looging tools, from chainsaws, axes, two-man crosscuts, peevies, etc. As well as how to safely snake logs out of logging areas. I also have been taught the 'old-fashioned' way to do work; even though my father was born in 1927, his father was born in 1889, and we learn skills from our mentors, and their skills reflect the ways of their mentors, and so on. Take it from an old fashioned farmer, who got off the farm because of to many aches and pains, We need to provide some sort of entertainment to relieve stress, or we will soon go for each others throats...

I'll store a few mp3s on my Notebook - though it'll not be heard on a party where everyone talks...

[Dave Howery]

well I will teach you how to plow and take care of the the animals .
actually, I'd rather learn how to raise potatoes and vegetables... I wanna be a gardener... hey, we need that stuff too...

[Ward]

Guys when you are loading up with supplys rember to bring some lux iteams .


Also check wome of the iteams I'm bringing it might help in what you might think of bring .

[Bulgaroktonos]

Is anybody else noticing that we have a decent population of people to lord it over?

The way I see it, we are far more useful actually teaching the art of making things and instructing them how to do things than anything else. But then again, I expect to be relatively lonely out there in the wilderness. I'll be a highly unproductive member of our society, seeking only a journey to Africa.

And why San Francisco? Its going to be cold as balls. I suggest Africa as it will be very temperate and we can easily expand into the rest of the world, and not be isolated from everything else.

[jolo]

Is anybody else noticing that we have a decent population of people to lord it over?


They'll automatically be helpful to us thanks to the markets being set up.

[Gedca]

The ASB are leting us take 1 Large Animal and 1 med Animal Per member of the Board .I thinka horse and a cat would work fine.
We are allowed 1,200 Lbs for the large Animal . And 100 lbs for everyone who is coming over with us . We are also alowed 40Lbs for each Aduilt that comes along that they can carry besides this is clothing and any small animals we want to carry plus any other ideams we want to carry .Some knives
100 pounds worth of seeds
Chess/checkers board
5 decks of cards
Some clocks that don't require batteries
A few tents
Encyclopedia set
Boy scout handbook
100 torches (those big lighters)
A few dozen extra pairs of overalls
A few flashlights
A plow
A few quality axes
A couple boxes of nails
A few sleeping bags
The rest will be food that will be good for while

Rember if you live at home your parents and siblings are comeing along also. I have 2 brothers and one sister. My dad has a strong background in math and physics, my mom has a strong background in biology and chemistry.

[Othniel]

First off I have 7 people. (immeadiate family plus promised devoted wife...)

Myself (19 year old healthy male)
Father (49 year old, ageing)
Mother (44 year old )
Sister (17)
Brother (15)
Sister (8)

I want to focus on planning and building. I'll bring an oxen, female pregnate, and a Brittany Spaniel

My Brother gets to bring a 2 yr. old hen, as does my younger sister.

The ox will haul a cart.

[Dave Howery]

And why San Francisco? Its going to be cold as balls. I suggest Africa as it will be very temperate and we can easily expand into the rest of the world, and not be isolated from everything else.
I chose SF because Ian lives there.... if you read the original post, you notice we appear where his house is located. But it's not a bad location really, as it is a Zone 9 area and has some of the most fertile land in the world. Africa? Well, south Africa would work, but it's drier and has a lot more dangerous animals. Anything above the south africa part wouldn't be so good... very dry or jungle or desert...

[Ward]

I chose SF because Ian lives there.... if you read the original post, you notice we appear where his house is located. But it's not a bad location really, as it is a Zone 9 area and has some of the most fertile land in the world. Africa? Well, south Africa would work, but it's drier and has a lot more dangerous animals. Anything above the south africa part wouldn't be so good... very dry or jungle or desert...



By the Wau Ian PM me that he lives in an Aprtment . Oh boy how about the just his apartment .

[SionEwig]

BIG SUGGESTION

As has been said by a few, there are several items that are going to be extremely useful but are very weighty. Many of these are very much things that would be of great use to the entire community.

So, my suggestion is that each family group (that would be 451 groups if we go with Active Members) set aside 10 lbs of their weight allowance to go into a communal pot so that these items can be gotten. Also, if anyone has extra weight left over they could kick it in.

Just a thought.

[pisces74]

I suck at math so I'll go light, and submit to wards suggestions as to what to fill out my weight limit with.

myself, my wife and two dogs both spayed and neutered (sorry ASBs non negotiable they're family)

four pairs of wool pants\ jackets each

eight cotton shirts, 4 pairs of high riding boots each.

My replica 1860 black powder musket an 10 lbs of powder/ and about 500 caps, and ammo,with bayonett

365 days worth of hardtack

30 days worth of beef jerky

canteens (4)

couple of bowie knives, a machete, an ax, a 10 pound sledge, small swiss army knife, a bow saw, a pole saw,

field glasses

50 foot rope

2 rubberized ponchos

My tent kit (wall tent)

small water purifer kit with 10 filter changeouts

a first aid kit.

I've got a collection of field guides for flora, fauna, animals, insects, and astronomy, I'd probably bring those which are relevent. figure about 10 to 20 pounds.

my nifty kinetic flashlight, and also my maglight.

A pretty generous array of sewing equipment, thread, yarn, needles and the like. a foot powered sewing machine. ( I think my wife has one laying about somewhere)

and a equally generous amount of no-think over the counter drugs (basicly what you'd find in a medicine chest, I don't want to play doctor ;))

about 20 pounds of blank paper, and 1 box of pencils, and ball pont pens, and a box of doodle markers.

[Shadestorm]

Update to my list, I had extra room and a few books won't hurt.

Waterproof cover of: Opium for the Masses: A Practical Guide to Growing Poppies and Making Opium by Jim Hogshire, Hydroponic Heroin: How to Grow Opium Poppies Without Soil by Robert N. Bunch, and Marijuana Horticulture: the Outdoor Medical Grower’s Bible by Jorge Cervantes.

I'd also like to bring a bundle of six sturdy hoes.

[Ward]

I suck at math so I'll go light, and submit to wards suggestions as to what to fill out my weight limit with.

myself, my wife and two dogs both spayed and neutered (sorry ASBs non negotiable they're family)

four pairs of wool pants\ jackets each

eight cotton shirts, 4 pairs of high riding boots each.

My replica 1860 black powder musket an 10 lbs of powder/ and about 500 caps, and ammo,with bayonett

365 days worth of hardtack

30 days worth of beef jerky

canteens (4)

couple of bowie knives, a machete, an ax, a 10 pound sledge, small swiss army knife, a bow saw, a pole saw,

field glasses

50 foot rope

2 rubberized ponchos

My tent kit (wall tent)

small water purifer kit with 10 filter changeouts

a first aid kit.

I've got a collection of field guides for flora, fauna, animals, insects, and astronomy, I'd probably bring those which are relevent. figure about 10 to 20 pounds.

my nifty kinetic flashlight, and also my maglight.

A pretty generous array of sewing equipment, thread, yarn, needles and the like. a foot powered sewing machine. ( I think my wife has one laying about somewhere)

and a equally generous amount of no-think over the counter drugs (basicly what you'd find in a medicine chest, I don't want to play doctor ;))


Well make that 3000 more caps . and also go with the flint lock hawkins and 50 lbs of powder . and molds for the rounds and 80 lbs of lead .

How about taking a cow and a goat as your animals .

And a wagon at about 400lbs weight and the tackle for a team to pull it .
Also bring the tool box I have listed at 80 lbs . and a set of the hand tools for working in the fields with . And you bring the 100 lbs of coffiee you and your wife can use our washmashine any time you need it .
Also bring your sadle and gear for riding . The rest of the weight is divied in Flour , Beans , and 40 lbs of pennut butter.

[Ward]

Iteams need by the comunity that some of the NPC could take .

plows 100 lbs each at less 50 more if we are at 5000 people we could use at less 1000 more .
Windmills water pumps 300 lbs at less 30 if we end up with 5000 people then at less 300

Modren wagons at less 100 at 400lbs each Just to move are stuff .

5 tons of Iron to make ideams out of .

Wood burning Kitchen stoves at 300 lbs each

barbwhire fencing at less 20 miles worth .

Black smith shops at less 2 and as many as 20 for the large group.

2 or 3 4lb cannons and shot for them . Blackpowder .

[pisces74]

I suck at math so I'll go light, and submit to wards suggestions as to what to fill out my weight limit with.

myself, my wife and two dogs both spayed and neutered (sorry ASBs non negotiable they're family)

four pairs of wool pants\ jackets each

eight cotton shirts, 4 pairs of high riding boots each.

My replica 1860 black powder musket an 100 lbs of powder/ and about 5000 caps, and ammo,with bayonett

365 days worth of hardtack

30 days worth of beef jerky

canteens (4)

couple of bowie knives, a machete, an ax, a 10 pound sledge, small swiss army knife, a bow saw, a pole saw,

field glasses

50 foot rope

2 rubberized ponchos

My tent kit (wall tent)

small water purifer kit with 10 filter changeouts

a first aid kit.

I've got a collection of field guides for flora, fauna, animals, insects, and astronomy, I'd probably bring those which are relevent. figure about 10 to 20 pounds.

my nifty kinetic flashlight, and also my maglight.

A pretty generous array of sewing equipment, thread, yarn, needles and the like. a foot powered sewing machine. ( I think my wife has one laying about somewhere)

and a equally generous amount of no-think over the counter drugs (basicly what you'd find in a medicine chest, I don't want to play doctor ;))

about 20 pounds of blank paper, and 1 box of pencils, and ball pont pens, and a box of doodle markers.

And a wheelbarrel at about 100lbs weight. Also bring the tool box I have listed at 80 lbs . and a set of the hand tools for working in the fields with . And you bring the 100 lbs of coffee you and your wife can use our washmashine any time you need it . Also bring your saddle and gear for riding . The rest of the weight is divied in Flour , Beans , Tea, Sugar, and 40 lbs of pennut butter.
Updated my list, staying with the rifle because I don't like slow dancing with Grizzlies :) and keeping my two animals as my dogs because well they're my dogs and I've already got them trained and emotional attachments. other then that this is my updated list. We have a doctor on board? or anybody that can tan hides?

[NapoleonXIV]

Two small and very durable laptop computers, with a 250 DVD library of all aspects of how to make everything, 4 batteries and small hydroelectric generator, 60lbs

Laboratory glassware and EQ necessary to make smokeless powder. I don't really know how much this will be but am thinking about 200lbs

A still to make alcohol to heat the lab processes. 50 lbs

Vaccines for all modern diseases I am likely to carry. Antibiotics 100lbs

3 tents. One to live in. one for the info center. one for the smokeless powder lab

50 M16's. The rest of the weight in ammo.

[Ward]

Updated my list, staying with the rifle because I don't like slow dancing with Grizzlies :) and keeping my two animals as my dogs because well they're my dogs and I've already got them trained and emotional attachments. other then that this is my updated list. We have a doctor on board? or anybody that can tan hides?



Yes I have tan a few hides in my day both pelts and kids :D

[Ward]

Two small and very durable laptop computers, with a 250 DVD library of all aspects of how to make everything, 4 batteries and small hydroelectric generator, 60lbs

Laboratory glassware and EQ necessary to make smokeless powder. I don't really know how much this will be but am thinking about 200lbs

A still to make alcohol to heat the lab processes. 50 lbs

Vaccines for all modern diseases I am likely to carry. Antibiotics 100lbs

3 tents. One to live in. one for the info center. one for the smokeless powder lab

50 M16's. The rest of the weight in ammo.



Just a question for you what are you going to eat .

[Ward]

Well I'm bring a Bull for my large animal and a female Goat.
Totol weight I can Bring is 2800lbs now goes up to 2900 lbs

My wife will be with me as will be my 2 aduilt sons and there Wifes , My married daughter and her husban , my 16 year old son a 14 year old grand daughter , 8 year old Grand daughter , 7 year old Grandson , 6 year old grand daughter , 5 year old Grand son , 2,1/2 year old Granddaughter . and 1 year old grand son.
Add a wife for my 16 year old son ,
600 lbs of Food in Caning jars 50lbs worth of Rubbergaskets for them.
100 lbs of Flour in plastic Bins , 100 lbs of of Beens , 100lbs of spices
80 lbs of yeast/bake sodal/way , 20lbs of lifeboat chocolate
2 x foot power sawing machines 90 lbs together
1 plow 100 lbs
1 manual Washing machine 47lbs
4x push scythes 15lbs each 60 lbs
1x 1900 carpiter chest of tools 80 lbs
1x tent 105 lbs this tent is 20x 12 with floor and able to take a wood stove in it .
1 packers wood stove 45 lbs with pipes to go out through the tent.
11x Covered cots 5 lbs each 55 lbs
a hand powered seed drill 12 lbs
sausage stuffer 25lbs
2 meat Glinders 10 lbs each
6 shovels 3 lbs each 18lbs 6 holes 3 lbs each 18 lbs , 6x post hoe digers 3 lbs each 18lbs , 6 x picks 6 lbs each 36lbs , 6x pitch forks 3 lbs each 18lbs.
10 x Axes 3 lbs each 30lbs , 6ft two men saws x 2 5 lbs each 10 lbs ,
200 lbs of seeds ,
4x wheel barows . 15lbs each 60lbs
8 54 cal hawkings rifles 6 lbs each 48lbs 100 lbs of powder 50 lbs of shot.
12 x blackhawk 357 pistols 4lbs each 48 lbs 50 lbs of rounds (1250) - 9 pistols 36 lbs add Books ( foxfire , scouting books and story books )
12 x 22 rifles 3 lbs each 36lbs and 74 lbs of 22 rounds (8500)
100 lbs of pots and pans and dishs.
100 lbs of soaps , 20 lbs of wax , 20 lbs of candle holders , 10lbso of candles.
20 lbs of sewing supply , and 80 lbs of cloth .
60 lbs of bedding .
6x grub hoe 6lbs eash 36lbs
4 x springfield 1903 9lbs each 36lbs 99lbs of ammo (1500)
50lbs of screws,50lbs of nails. Dropping 30 lbs of screw for 30 lbs chicken feed
6x sapers 3lbs eash 18lbs
50lbs 3/4 in coper pipe 20lbs of fittigs.Dropping for womens iteams
88lbs of cothing


What every Adult in my party will have on them all 10 of them scince my 16 year old son an adult and his wife
Tactical Radio, Heavy Duty Space Blanket, 2 large Heavy Duty Trash Bags , 1 Light weight OD Rain Poncho, 1 water filter stra , 1 personal First aid Kit,
1 snall collapsable water Bucket ,1 water storage Blader. 1 Plastic Canteen & Canteen Cup, 1 Pair of BDU pants , 1 OD t-shirt, 1 Wcommado Wool sweater, 2 Pair hiking socks , 1 ball cap, 1 light wind Beacker, 1 Pair of Black leather Gloves w/Liners , 4 Packs lifeboat Matches (25 Each ) 1 Feild Cooker and 3 Boxes (25 each ) Fuel Tablets , 1 Set Knife , Fork , Spoon , 1 Folding pocket knife , 1 Watch wind up , 1 wetstone , 20 yards Paracord , 1 Notepad w/pen & pencil ,1 Solor crank Flashlight , 1 Folded Topographical Map of the rea, 1 Compass , 20 sheets Toilet paper in plastic Bag 2 MREs , 1 set of Boots , a set of webgear , 1 x 357 pistol and hoster , 20 rounds of .357 ammo , 2 x chickens live each . weight 40 lbs.


People you might want to have this for your 40lbs that you are come over in . Rember every thing else is on skids waiting for you ,

[Glen]

Ok People we are ready to start the Game


The ASB are leting us take 1 Large Animal and 1 med Animal Per member of the Board .

We are allowed 1,200 Lbs for the large Animal . And 100 lbs for everyone who is coming over with us . We are also alowed 40Lbs for each Aduilt that comes along that they can carry besides this is clothing and any small animals we want to carry plus any other ideams we want to carry .

Rember if you live at home your parents and siblings are comeing along also.
If you have children and Grand children they are comeing also .

If you live alone you may bring a clone of any one member of the opposit sex with you . That is is you are over 18 years old .

So start listing what you and your family group will bring and who you are bring with you .

Rember the ASB Will move what we list on skids to are site . But they will mark are names on are skids so we can only unload are own skids .

Well, I'm not ready to make my final selections yet, but some preliminaries.

I have a family of four, myself, my wife, and two children (5.5 and 2.5 years old).

I will be the doctor of the group, since I am a doctor. I will be bringing a few books along, references for medicine, surgery, pharmacology, herbology, lab techniques, etc (full list later). I will also be bringing along a selection of seeds/pods/cuttings for medicinal plants not native to the San Francisco bay area. We should probably take over the Central Valley of California, good land there IIRC. Unfortunately, books are quite heavy...

A good thing about starting off in North America is that we are isolated from most of the diseases of the time, making our early expansion easier. This coupled with simple hygeine, sanitation, and antisepsis will give us a much lower death rate than anyone else in this world, and we will grow rapidly.

I'd suggest we enforce a strict quarantine period for the first two months of our arrival. This will give plenty of time for any colds or flus we have to work their way through the community. After that, we would not pose as much of a threat to the Native American world in terms of plagues. And of course, we have no small pox.

Quite frankly, we should avoid the Old World for quite a while. We have two continents and the Carribean to expand into with relative ease. To go to the old world with its larger population and more organized societies would be to possibly court trouble. At least until we are finished with our expansion through the continent.

I think we should form a single government from the get-go. Having a bunch of AH.commers starting their own little fiefdoms is a recipe for disaster.

Just some ideas off the cuff....

[jolo]

Well, I'm not ready to make my final selections yet, but some preliminaries.

I have a family of four, myself, my wife, and two children (5.5 and 2.5 years old).

I will be the doctor of the group, since I am a doctor. I will be bringing a few books along, references for medicine, surgery, pharmacology, herbology, lab techniques, etc (full list later). I will also be bringing along a selection of seeds/pods/cuttings for medicinal plants not native to the San Francisco bay area. We should probably take over the Central Valley of California, good land there IIRC. Unfortunately, books are quite heavy...

A good thing about starting off in North America is that we are isolated from most of the diseases of the time, making our early expansion easier. This coupled with simple hygeine, sanitation, and antisepsis will give us a much lower death rate than anyone else in this world, and we will grow rapidly.

I'd suggest we enforce a strict quarantine period for the first two months of our arrival. This will give plenty of time for any colds or flus we have to work their way through the community. After that, we would not pose as much of a threat to the Native American world in terms of plagues. And of course, we have no small pox.

Quite frankly, we should avoid the Old World for quite a while. We have two continents and the Carribean to expand into with relative ease. To go to the old world with its larger population and more organized societies would be to possibly court trouble. At least until we are finished with our expansion through the continent.

I think we should form a single government from the get-go. Having a bunch of AH.commers starting their own little fiefdoms is a recipe for disaster.

Just some ideas off the cuff....

I'd nearly fully agree except that I find it difficult to impose a quarantine on us. It might even cause unnecessary hostilities against us. I'd prefer some kind of vaccination program for the local tribes.

[Ward]

For TBear

Hi my Dad made me join but here is my list of things .

Well I will take a milk cow , and a Goat And my girlfriend .

Iteams taken
1 wagon 400lb 100 lbs worth of tack for it .
1 Windmill 300lbs
200 lbs of flour.
50lbs of Salt
100 lbs of surgar
30 lbs of Games
30 lbs of chalk
40 lbs of slate boards
150 lbs of oil

We will also have what my dad said we would wear and carry .

[Glen]

I'd nearly fully agree except that I find it difficult to impose a quarantine on us. It might even cause unnecessary hostilities against us. I'd prefer some kind of vaccination program for the local tribes.

Thanks to the miracle of modern vaccination, most of us aren't carrying any diseases that they would need to be vaccinated against except influenzae and colds (pretty mild for us, but I wouldn't risk it on naive populations).

Unfortunately, vaccination for influenzae is not perfect, and in this population that might not be good enough (plus, exactly how long do you think it would take to convince the locals to allow you to vaccinate them? By that time, flu and colds might be sweeping through the population).

If we're diligent, and just practice strict hand washing and face masks (for sneezes) for those showing symptoms, we could probably shorten that to one month of general isolation. Maybe have a few people who are cleared of symptoms or sick contacts before the trip over, who are willing to stay on our perimeter as 'greeters' for any locals (or should we start calling them 'downtimers'?).

[NapoleonXIV]

Just a question for you what are you going to eat .
:o Two weeks worth of MRE for two

After that, the Indians should be providing

[jolo]

Thanks to the miracle of modern vaccination, most of us aren't carrying any diseases that they would need to be vaccinated against except influenzae and colds (pretty mild for us, but I wouldn't risk it on naive populations).

Unfortunately, vaccination for influenzae is not perfect, and in this population that might not be good enough (plus, exactly how long do you think it would take to convince the locals to allow you to vaccinate them? By that time, flu and colds might be sweeping through the population).

If we're diligent, and just practice strict hand washing and face masks (for sneezes) for those showing symptoms, we could probably shorten that to one month of general isolation. Maybe have a few people who are cleared of symptoms or sick contacts before the trip over, who are willing to stay on our perimeter as 'greeters' for any locals (or should we start calling them 'downtimers'?).

Some vaccination can be done without shots. If shots are unavoidable, we might do it like field doctors: Go out to them, help them with some of their diseases, and convince them of vaccination - some of us might take shots even if they don't need it, to lead with an example.

If only the surrounding tribes are vaccinated, the problem is solved.

Hygiene would still be good. But a virus usually remains in a person forever.

[Glen]

Some vaccination can be done without shots. If shots are unavoidable, we might do it like field doctors: Go out to them, help them with some of their diseases, and convince them of vaccination - some of us might take shots even if they don't need it, to lead with an example.

If only the surrounding tribes are vaccinated, the problem is solved.

Hygiene would still be good. But a virus usually remains in a person forever.


You're still risking spreading disease faster than you can vaccinate. You need to specify which vaccines you are talking about. Quite frankly, the only one you really need to bring at this point are flu shots, pneumovax, and chicken pox, at least for initial vaccination.

Bottom line, it would be safer to just keep our distance for a month than to try and outpace disease. Those people are not stupid...they aren't going to trust someone who can't speak to them, doesn't look like anyone they've ever met, to stick foreign substances into their bodies. Would you?

It will take months to build communications and trust to the level for what you are suggesting, and that's a best case scenario.

As for viruses staying in the body forever...yes, some do. But you aren't contagious for all your life with most of those (though shingles is reactivated chicken pox and thus can infect new people).

We probably also need small pox vaccinations for ourselves, but I would keep it in storage until we eventually decide to make contact with the old world. There is a mortality rate with smallpox vaccination, so it is not something to take lightly.

[Ward]

Well I'm bring a Bull for my large animal and a female Goat.
Totol weight I can Bring is 2800lbs

My wife will be with me as will be my 2 aduilt sons and there Wifes , My married daughter and her husban , my 16 year old son a 14 year old grand daughter , 8 year old Grand daughter , 7 year old Grandson , 6 year old grand daughter , 5 year old Grand son , 2,1/2 year old Granddaughter . and 1 year old grand son.

600 lbs of Food in Caning jars 50lbs worth of Rubbergaskets for them.
100 lbs of Flour in plastic Bins , 100 lbs of of Beens , 100lbs of spices
2 x foot power sawing machines 90 lbs together
1 plow 100 lbs
1 manual Washing machine 47lbs
4x push scythes 15lbs each 60 lbs
1x 1900 carpiter chest of tools 80 lbs
1x tent 105 lbs this tent is 20x 12 with floor and able to take a wood stove in it .
1 packers wood stove 45 lbs with pipes to go out through the tent.
11x Covered cots 5 lbs each 55 lbs
a hand powered seed drill 12 lbs
sausage stuffer 25lbs
2 meat Glinders 10 lbs each
6 shovels 3 lbs each 18lbs 6 holes 3 lbs each 18 lbs , 6x post hoe digers 3 lbs each 18lbs , 6 x picks 6 lbs each 36lbs , 6x pitch forks 3 lbs each 18lbs.
10 x Axes 3 lbs each 30lbs , 6ft two men saws x 2 5 lbs each 10 lbs ,
200 lbs of seeds ,
4x wheel barows . 15lbs each 60lbs
8 54 cal hawkings rifles 6 lbs each 48lbs 100 lbs of powder 50 lbs of shot.
12 x blackhawk 357 pistols 4lbs each 48 lbs 50 lbs of rounds (1250)
12 x 22 rifles 3 lbs each 36lbs and 74 lbs of 22 rounds (8500)
100 lbs of pots and pans and dishs.
100 lbs of soaps , 20 lbs of wax , 20 lbs of candle holders , 10lbso of candles.
20 lbs of sewing supply , and 80 lbs of cloth .
60 lbs of bedding .
6x grub hoe 6lbs eash 36lbs
4 x springfield 1903 9lbs each 36lbs 99lbs of ammo (1500)
50lbs of screws,50lbs of nails.
6x sabers 3lbs eash 18lbs
70 lbs of women supplys
88lbs of cothing



Which we had a spell checker

[Dave Howery]

ok, Dr. Glenn, would we really be able to prevent cold and flu germs from breaking out amongst the natives? What happens when they come in contact regularly with our domestic animals? Isn't this how a lot of diseases start?

[Darkest]

I like the idea of a quarantine period, so that we can keep the Native Americans as healthy as possible. I don't want to go off killing millions of people.

However, we'll have to contain Shadestorm and his group from leaving soon, which may be hard.

[Ward]

I like the idea of a quarantine period, so that we can keep the Native Americans as healthy as possible. I don't want to go off killing millions of people.

However, we'll have to contain Shadestorm and his group from leaving soon, which may be hard.


How are you going to stop him . are you going to shoot him . I'm not he is willing to leave his extra gear for us .

[Shadestorm]

Well I'll just be sure to load my rifle before we warp, right? I'm taking off the second this thing starts, so you'd better be quick.

[Dave Howery]

let him go. If he honestly thinks he can become a god-emperor among the natives, he'll be sadly (and fatally) disillusioned. Although, with him out of the quarantine, he'll likely infect the natives and start off the big dying time... that'll make them love him even more...
plus, if he's taking off 'the second this thing starts', he'll have to leave most of his gear behind, being limited to whatever he can carry in his saddlebags...

[Shadestorm]

My list says: All strapped to my horse. So doesn't it come prewrapped onto my horse? I traveled light so I could do this.

[Glen]

ok, Dr. Glenn, would we really be able to prevent cold and flu germs from breaking out amongst the natives? What happens when they come in contact regularly with our domestic animals? Isn't this how a lot of diseases start?

Birds and Pigs serve as reservoirs for new strains of influenzae, but they take time to make the transition.

Maybe if we specify that we are getting are animals from free range, organic farms in the US, this would be less of a problem (most of the reservoir are in asia, and this form of farming is the least likely to have a large amount of disease).

Also, if the animals are kept in quarantine for a couple months from the natives, then we should be in good shape.

Looks like domesticated animals (except dogs) are not in use in the San Francisco area at the time of our arrival, so it should be easy to keep them from the animals initially. Once they realize some of their value, that's a different matter...

[Glen]

My list says: All strapped to my horse. So doesn't it come prewrapped onto my horse? I traveled light so I could do this.


Shadestorm, are you honestly telling us, that if you, YOU mind you, not some character you created, were in this situation, you would just go off and risk starting a pandemic that could kill millions, when waiting like, a month, could make a significant difference?

Tell me, do you normally engage in activities you know could kill so many in your real life?

At the very least, stay in isolation for a week. If you don't have any symptoms of cold/flu by that time, then you're probably clear.

[pisces74]

Theres now a chat thread for this.

[Shadestorm]

Yes, you're right. I'm sure I can find a cave somewhere away from you guys where I'll hang out for a while; getting to know my new celebrity wife. I'll need some more food, so I'm going to take back 150 lbs. of my contribution to you guys.

- 25 lbs. MRE's, 25 lbs. of Pinnole, in a plastic heavy-duty sack.
- 6 handcuffs and keys for them.
- 2 snow-weather, waterproof hiking backpacks.
- 5 more large quilts
- 3 more 30ft. waterproof tarps

I'm feeling pity for my horse... but I guess they can carry 1000 lbs. so he should be able to trot atleast. I'm definetly not going to be able to gallop off into the sunset.

[Grimm Reaper]

Don't forget to make certain that all the animals are impregnated females before you leave!

Is there any horse more effective at large loads than a Clydesdale? If so, I take that one instead. Small animal will be a nice sow expecting the litter in about two week's time(jumpstart in action).

Small animals will be my loyal cat and some poultry(half dozen chickens ready to start laying).

Darn. My sister is visiting so she comes along, as well as...wait a second. Someone already picked Miranda Otto?!?:mad:

Now I have to rethink my clone selection.

I will certainly include as many books as possible from Dan Forester's collection in Lucifer's Hammer.

Perhaps a few crossbows should come along, to save on gunpowder?

Better yet, a book on making gunpowder and the necessary tools, but bring only sulphur and saltpeter. We can make our own charcoal AND it proves to us early that we can create industry on a moderate scale.

All the tools I need to make candles and soap and such, my little niche in the SCA.:D So we can cut back on some of those items.

Hmm, how about we each pick one rare and useful plant, bring materials on cultivating it AND a half dozen started in pots(which we can reuse once the plants are replanted)?

Seeds, of course. And...

[Dave Howery]

actually, your sister wouldn't be going... it's only you, your wife/S.O., and dependent children... which it seems you don't have any... hey, take a Miranda clone if you want.. we're going to have some duplication anyway... just remember, once you got her, you're devoted to her, and vice versa... the ASBs make it so... :)

[Bulgaroktonos]

In order to explain some of the weird things that will appear on my list, it is a result of my requirement to protect myself against any plausible scenario. Thus, the presence of a gladius and scutum can be explained by the fact that I am not going to trust the natives, and if I can't reload quickly enough or am unable to reach my weapon, a shield and sword will go a long way towards keeping me alive.

Domestic/Pet: Tamed wolf. As opposed to a fully domesticated dog, my dog is much less likely to have a serious impact upon the local wildlife, few problems adapting to different foods, and will make a good hunting companion.

Draft Animal: Destrider horse. More or less a big ass warhorse, now non-existent. Capable of drafting, large loads, and excellent speed. All around good horse to have.

Arms:

M40A3- For very long range.

1903 No.4 Mk.1 (T)- Short-Medium Range

Colt .45 ACP 1911A1.
HK .40 S&W P2000
Gladius

Holland and Holland over-and-under shotgun

Food:
Canned Food out the Ass. 24oz cans Roughly 350lbs which translates to nearly a can a day, to supplement any food shortage.

Several jars of basic vitamins.

Various spices (single jars for special occassions) 2lbs

40lb bag of salt

20lb bag of sugar

Grape vine in pot 3lbs(?)

5 bottles of Johnny Walker Black Label
5 bottles of Johnny Walker Green Label
5 bottles of Johnny Walker Gold Label
5 bottles of Johnny Walker Blue Label

Tools, Etc.:

2x Axes (plastic handles)
Basic tool box
Anvil (252 lb)
Smithing Hammers and 1 set of tongs (provided with iron, a base set of only a few tools is required in order to make the full set)
1 Haligan/Hooligan tool (All purpose tool)
30 ft of nylon rope

Specific Clothing/Miscellaneous extraneous items:

Russian/Soviet Great Coat
Scutum
My Wehrmacht Helmet (sentimental value)
Cleaning kit (weapons)
First Aid Kit
Bullhorn

[General_Paul]

[QUOTE=General_Paul]General_Paul's list:

Large Animal: Mustang Horse
Medium Animal: Labrador Retriever (black)

Cart- Horse drawn cart

Family to be taken: None
Women to be taken: None. I don't need the companionship.

Items to carry: Mauser K-98 bolt action rifle.
500 rounds for Mauser
Colt 1911 Semi-Autmatic
10 clips and 150 rounds

Food- 200 lbs. worth of food.

Misc. Items-

Saddle for the Horse
Blanket
Axe- two handed for chopping down small-medium trees, and one handed for chopping wood
Hunting Knife
Samurai Sword- Long and Short sword
Books- hard decision, but I'd choose 15 hardbacks, including the entire set of Churchill's History of the English Speaking peoples, and his history of the second world war, and 30 paperbacks, including smaller novellas, and larger paperbacks. And of course a copy fo the book "How Things Work", that thing has a diagram of EVERYTHING.
Seeds- 30 lbs. worth of seeds.
Sleeping bag
Pup tent
Flint
20 boxes of matches
50 bic lighters
Laptop Computer- 4 lbs.
Power Generator- Small- 50 lbs.
Gasoline- 10 gallons
Laptop Batteries- 20, 20 hour laptop batteries- 50 lbs.
Saxophone- Alto- 7 lbs.
20 boxes of alto sax reeds weighing in at under .5 lbs per box
Translation book- Native American languages of the West Coast
School books- Basic school books from 1-5 grade levels- 3 per grade level
Guitar
Violin
Oil Drum- Empty
Tide Flakes
Fabric Softner
Diesel Fuel- 5 gallons (take a wild guess at why I'm bringing the tide flakes and fabric softner)

I think that should match about what I need, if I'm over, please point it out.

[Glen]

We need lathes, if we can get them.

And we need to be able to make stainless steel...vital for the chemical industry.

Pyrex would be nice, too. I think we can swing that...

[Forum Lurker]

I'm bringing a lathe, but I don't think we can get either stainless steel or pyrex. Odd as it sounds, our best bet for things like surgical tools (when ours get irreperably damaged) is going to be copper; it (and sulfur, incidentally) are available in the region, as I recall, and tarnishing is slow, not structurally damaging, and not a significant source of infection (as rust is for tetanus).

[Glen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalworking

We need as many of these tools as we can get.

[Glen]

I'm bringing a lathe, but I don't think we can get either stainless steel or pyrex. Odd as it sounds, our best bet for things like surgical tools (when ours get irreperably damaged) is going to be copper; it (and sulfur, incidentally) are available in the region, as I recall, and tarnishing is slow, not structurally damaging, and not a significant source of infection (as rust is for tetanus).

Good points...but it wasn't surgical tools I was thinking of, but chemical/pharmaceutical mass production and storage. Thats where it will be valuable.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Good points...but it wasn't surgical tools I was thinking of, but chemical/pharmaceutical mass production and storage. Thats where it will be valuable.

Unless we have resident blacksmiths or serious metal workers, I'm willing to work at that. I've always been fascinated by it.

[Glen]

Need Chromium for stainless steel

Need Boron for pyrex

Apparently, we're not TOO far from boron, we can eventually find it in Death Valley...

http://www.borax.com/

Chromium is going to be a lot harder...so far, the closest I've found is on the Maryland-Pennsylvania border...

[Flocculencio]

let him go. If he honestly thinks he can become a god-emperor among the natives, he'll be sadly (and fatally) disillusioned. Although, with him out of the quarantine, he'll likely infect the natives and start off the big dying time... that'll make them love him even more...
plus, if he's taking off 'the second this thing starts', he'll have to leave most of his gear behind, being limited to whatever he can carry in his saddlebags...

Seconded again. If he survives and somehow manages to get a disaffected band of natives on his side he could be an inconvenience though.

I'm taking whatever anyone else says I should reserving a few kilos for a complete Shakespeare, Milton's Paradise Lost, two translations of Beowulf and a Complete Chaucer plus some Kipling, Wilde and Yeats, say, 5 kilos of books in total.

I'm not leaving the glories of English Literature behind! It doesn't weigh much and it's beyond price.

And the lance heads if we're going low-tech :D

[Forum Lurker]

Good points...but it wasn't surgical tools I was thinking of, but chemical/pharmaceutical mass production and storage. Thats where it will be valuable.
I think copper does well for most of this, too. Also, we're not going to have many chemicals/pharmaceuticals to store; our initial limit will be aspirin and alcohol.

[Glen]

I think copper does well for most of this, too. Also, we're not going to have many chemicals/pharmaceuticals to store; our initial limit will be aspirin and alcohol.

I'm not talking about storing, FL...I'm talking about making...

We're not going to be able to take enough of anything to make much of a difference in the long run.

We have to take the capacity to make things, that is the most vital thing.

We need knowledge and tools to start the recreation of civilization.

[jolo]

I think copper does well for most of this, too. Also, we're not going to have many chemicals/pharmaceuticals to store; our initial limit will be aspirin and alcohol.

Antibiotics should be possible to produce. The same is true for different kinds of vaccines and antitoxins. All depends upon how much time we can spare for medicine.

I suppose at the beginning, our doctors will be "barefoot-doctors" who even have to do some gardening to survive.

[Dave Howery]

at the very beginning, I think everyone's either going to be working on farming/land clearing or lumber/building... nothing else is as urgent as these two..

[Ward]

Antibiotics should be possible to produce. The same is true for different kinds of vaccines and antitoxins. All depends upon how much time we can spare for medicine.

I suppose at the beginning, our doctors will be "barefoot-doctors" who even have to do some gardening to survive.


I'm not going to let Glen hurt his hands , my family will help him in gardening and building his house .

[Glen]

Antibiotics should be possible to produce. The same is true for different kinds of vaccines and antitoxins. All depends upon how much time we can spare for medicine.

We spare as much as it takes. It would be the worst travesty to let medical knowledge slip from this brave new world.

I know...we've got to eat, first. However, I really do think we could get enough seafood to probably feed our numbers for a time. Not that we shouldn't be planting, but there are priorities and then there are priorities.

Antibiotics...we don't want to lose those, definitely.

I suppose at the beginning, our doctors will be "barefoot-doctors" who even have to do some gardening to survive.

Well, everyone is going to be gardening.

However, do you want your physicians just growing food, or would you rather have them working gardens of medicinals?

I'd say we can afford to have three medical professionals...and can afford no less (need some redundancy for possible mortality).

Of course, we're all going to be in the fields come harvest time...

[Ward]

We spare as much as it takes. It would be the worst travesty to let medical knowledge slip from this brave new world.

I know...we've got to eat, first. However, I really do think we could get enough seafood to probably feed our numbers for a time. Not that we shouldn't be planting, but there are priorities and then there are priorities.

Antibiotics...we don't want to lose those, definitely.



Well, everyone is going to be gardening.

However, do you want your physicians just growing food, or would you rather have them working gardens of medicinals?

I'd say we can afford to have three medical professionals...and can afford no less (need some redundancy for possible mortality).

Of course, we're all going to be in the fields come harvest time...


No they will not be there they will be working aid stations around the fields .
There will be enough injuries for them to take care of .

[NapoleonXIV]

Two small and very durable laptop computers, with a 250 DVD library of all aspects of how to make everything, 4 batteries and small hydroelectric generator, 60lbs

Laboratory glassware and EQ necessary to make smokeless powder. I don't really know how much this will be but am thinking about 200lbs

A still to make alcohol to heat the lab processes. 50 lbs

Vaccines for all modern diseases I am likely to carry. Antibiotics 100lbs

3 tents. One to live in. one for the info center. one for the smokeless powder lab

50 M16's. The rest of the weight in ammo.

Change M16's to AK-74's. Inadvertent typo

[Glen]

No they will not be there they will be working aid stations around the fields .
There will be enough injuries for them to take care of .

Ooops, you're right, of course.

Well, so much for that...looks like I'm going to be on call 24/7/52...:eek:

[Forum Lurker]

8/24/7, if you can train up a couple apprentices.

[Glen]

8/24/7, if you can train up a couple apprentices.

Well, we'll definitely work on that...

[jolo]

I'll add a few fishing nets and other fishing equipment, a few masks against dust, and some light-weight bartering articles to the list - plastic jewellery and the likes. As there's no cost limit, a few real jewels might also be useful. Diamonds might be really useful to produce glass cutters, heavy duty drills, and so on. An elektric shocker would be useful to get people in line without killing them. The same is true for a push stick. A plastic shield would have advantages against arrows, stones, and so on.

Instead of a lightweight horse cart, I'll take a light weight boat trailer and a small sailing boat, plus the necessary equipment and additional sails. The boat trailer will also be good to move logs until better means are available. The winch will be useful for lots of things.

[SionEwig]

I'm bringing a lathe, but I don't think we can get either stainless steel or pyrex. Odd as it sounds, our best bet for things like surgical tools (when ours get irreperably damaged) is going to be copper; it (and sulfur, incidentally) are available in the region, as I recall, and tarnishing is slow, not structurally damaging, and not a significant source of infection (as rust is for tetanus).

The closest Sulfur deposit I have located is just NW of Death Valley National Park. The stte of California does list sulfur just north of the Bay area in a couple of their Mineral Yearbooks of the mining industry of the state, but that is associated with and recovered from an oil deposit, something that is not easily available to us.

[SionEwig]

Need Chromium for stainless steel

Need Boron for pyrex

Apparently, we're not TOO far from boron, we can eventually find it in Death Valley...

http://www.borax.com/

Chromium is going to be a lot harder...so far, the closest I've found is on the Maryland-Pennsylvania border...

40 mule team :D

Chromite and other chrome ores (and some other useful things) are found not too far south of us between the towns of Bitterwater and Coalinga and several other spots in the state.

Anything else you want?

[Matt]

I just want to make a suggestion about the modern weaponery.

The AR-5 .22 cal rifle should be taken with us. At least 100, and as much ammo as possible. This would be our primary weapon for just about every day use.

We don't need M16s or AK47s, but I think Lee-Enfield rifles or something similar would do nicely.

Ammo should be standardized to at most 3 types of rounds. the light .22 round is essential, and I think the .303 would do fine for the rifles. Since we're mostly Americans I think we can agree on .45 ACP for pistols :p

[Norbert]

I just want to make a suggestion about the modern weaponery.

The AR-5 .22 cal rifle should be taken with us. At least 100, and as much ammo as possible. This would be our primary weapon for just about every day use.

We don't need M16s or AK47s, but I think Lee-Enfield rifles or something similar would do nicely.

Ammo should be standardized to at most 3 types of rounds. the light .22 round is essential, and I think the .303 would do fine for the rifles. Since we're mostly Americans I think we can agree on .45 ACP for pistols :p

1: 30-06 would be a better calibre than a .303
2: Many people can not handle the recoil of the .45. A .357 revolver would be a better choice, easier to handle, and less problems than a magazine fed weapon (What do you do when the magazine spring gets weak or breaks? Go to the gun-shop to buy a new magazine?)
3: I approve of the 22 long rifle, though I would sugget the bolt action .22
4: I would also suggest the addition of 16 Gauge shotguns, Good for hunting, and the smaller people (women and larger kids) can handle them. Take a mix of slug and bird shot. If some natives are pesky and you do not want to out-right kill them, bird shot will dampen their sprit quickly.
5: I would also suggest that you and WeaponM should take a BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle). It also uses the .30-06
6: Standardize rifles to the Springfield 1903 or the M1 Garand?

[Matt]

1: 30-06 would be a better calibre than a .303
2: Many people can not handle the recoil of the .45. A .357 revolver would be a better choice, easier to handle, and less problems than a magazine fed weapon (What do you do when the magazine spring gets weak or breaks? Go to the gun-shop to buy a new magazine?)
3: I approve of the 22 long rifle, though I would sugget the bolt action .22
4: I would also suggest the addition of 16 Gauge shotguns, Good for hunting, and the smaller people (women and larger kids) can handle them. Take a mix of slug and bird shot. If some natives are pesky and you do not want to out-right kill them, bird shot will dampen their sprit quickly.
5: I would also suggest that you and WeaponM should take a BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle). It also uses the .30-06
6: Standardize rifles to the Springfield 1903 or the M1 Garand?


I was going for the Lee-Enfield because of it's higher magizine capacity then the Springfield. How about the M1917 Lee-Enfield? It's in 30-06. I would much rather have a boltaction rifle, since it discourages waste.

Good point about the magazines on the 1911s. 357 it is. Same with the bolt action 22.

[Glen]

I was going for the Lee-Enfield because of it's higher magizine capacity then the Springfield. How about the M1917 Lee-Enfield? It's in 30-06. I would much rather have a boltaction rifle, since it discourages waste.

Good point about the magazines on the 1911s. 357 it is. Same with the bolt action 22.

So, .22, .357, 30-06 as our main calibres?

And a 16 guage for shotguns? Why not a 12 guage? The whole recoil issue again?

[Matt]

So, .22, .357, 30-06 as our main calibres?

And a 16 guage for shotguns? Why not a 12 guage? The whole recoil issue again?


Yeah, almost everyone well have a shotgun and a .22. We want the women and the older childern to be able to handle them, just in case.

[Norbert]

I was going for the Lee-Enfield because of it's higher magizine capacity then the Springfield. How about the M1917 Lee-Enfield? It's in 30-06. I would much rather have a boltaction rifle, since it discourages waste.

Good point about the magazines on the 1911s. 357 it is. Same with the bolt action 22.

Yep, M1917 Lee-Enfield sounds good to me!

Ward says his Springfield '03 were the Star series! (ie, Sniper Rifles, with the experience to use them!)

[SionEwig]

I was going for the Lee-Enfield because of it's higher magizine capacity then the Springfield. How about the M1917 Lee-Enfield? It's in 30-06. I would much rather have a boltaction rifle, since it discourages waste.

Good point about the magazines on the 1911s. 357 it is. Same with the bolt action 22.

The US Model 1917 Enfield rifle is NOT a Lee-Enfield in 30-06. Except for the caliber, it is the same as the British No. 3 Mark 1, sometimes called the Pattern 14. It has the same 5 round internal box magazine as the 03 and most military Mausers. It is much more similar to the US Model 1903 Springfield.

Something that might be worth consideration concerning the 22 rifles is going with the T/C Contender Carbines, single shot break opens and with the extra 357 barrel, weight total is 7 lbs. The advantage is the ability to get some real use out of the 357 ammunition rather than purely self defense.

[Bulgaroktonos]

I'm going with a No.4 Mk.1(T)

Incredibly reliable, durable, and generally more accurate the farther away you are.

Good all purpose rifle.

.30-06 is a good round, but I'm biased to the Lee Enfield.

[Othniel]

Heck since I said Consturtion and Repair would be my field I'll let you guys design my list. Heck Pyscho ruled I only get a wife since I'm over 18..oh well.

I'll take extra tools(shovels, axes, tillers), replacement parts (if we need them), dried foods such as beef jerkey and trail mix, two iceboxes, some notebooks with pens and pencils, my pocket knife, topographic maps of the area, city planning documents, an asb assembled collection of easseys on colonization and building societies, a 500 yard roll of plastic, carrying bags, and a ten man tent. Figure out how much that weighs, and If I got extra room assign me stuff.

[Psychomeltdown]

so I'll take
.22 rifle
30-06 hunting rifle
.357 revolver

about 3 boxes of ammo for each

I'll leave the Hawkins Rifle to those who know how to use it.

Though If I have some extra weight I'll also heft along some powder and shot.



BTW how much does a plow blade weight? just the blade, 50 lbs?

[Psychomeltdown]

Here's my list of items I'm bringing in. the Weights for them is pretty much just guessed and rough estimae. Hopefully they're not too off. Hopefully I've also brought enough things to ensure me and mine's survival.




PERSONAL PROPERTY


CLOTHING (per person)
4 tough pants
7 shirts (2 long sleeved)
2 boots
7 underwear
2 Hat
2 Jackets (light and heavy)
5 Gloves ( heavy work-gloves)
1 Rain-slicker/poncho
4 Sunglasses
20 Bandanas

120 lbs


BEDDING
2 Thermal sleeping bags
1 large sleeping mat
2 pillows
1 Two person tent

20 lbs


COOKING
2 Skillet
1 Pan
2 large pot
Utensils - forks, spoons, ladles, knives, etc.
4 Bowls
4 Cups
3 Canteen
1 Grilling Rack

50 lbs

MISC
2 box of candles
3 boxes waterproof matches
4 sewing kits
Twine - 3000 feet
Metal wire, steel - 100 ft.
Buckskin needles
3 large tarps
Fishing gear - for two people
Vitamins (C and others, 1 yr)
Zip lock bags - assorted sizes
Hallzone tablets
4 grooming kits
10 straight edge razors
1 set of horse tack
1 set of horse grooming kit
2 flashlights w/ extra batteries
1 flare-gun with extra flares
15 Flint and Strikers
10 lbs of paper
5 packets of pencils
1 flute (with case)
1 acoustic guitar (with case)
25 packets of extra guitar string
2 binders of musical lyrics
1 binder of board-game descriptions/rules
10 packages of hand-soap
3 boxes of clothing soap
5 large plastic storage containers
1 roll of quarters, dimes, nickels, pennies


330 lbs


TOOLS
2 shovels
2 axes
1 pickaxe
1 posthole digger
2 hammers
2 mallets
5 boxes assorted nails
2 sledgehammers
2 hand saw files
3 flat file
2 handsaw
1 two man crosscut saw
3 hatchets
3 chisels
3 gouges
1 hand drill and bits
25 All purpose knives
10 Skinning knives
10 whetstones
300 feet Rope, heavy nylon
4 binoculars
4 compasses
4 signal mirrors
15 axe heads
10 hammer heads
15 hatchet heads
1 25 feet tape measure

260 lbs


WEAPONRY
3 Bows (with bracers)
100 Arrows (with quivers)
Extra bow strings
4 Spears
2 Short swords
4 Bowie knives
250 Arrowheads
10 Spearheads

160 lbs



COMMUNITY PROPERTY


ANIMALS
1 Horse, mare, quarter horse (Rose)
1 ewe (Lucy)

PROVISIONS
50 lbs Flour Pinole
25 lbs Whole Grain Flour
25 lbs Rice
10 lbs Seasoning/Spices
10 lbs Tea
15 lbs Salt
15 lbs Sugar

150 lbs


MEDICINES
2 Large First Aid Kits
2 Personal First Aid Kits
Rattlesnake antivenin
2 Suture kits
1 box of aspirins (20 bottles, 100 tablets, 500 mg)

25 lbs

WEAPONRY
2 30-06 hunting rifle
6 boxes of ammunition
2 .22 rifle
6 boxes of ammunition
2 .357 revolver
6 boxes of ammunition

75 lbs


MISC.
50 lbs Farm Seeds - (corn, watermelon, honeydew, cantaloupe, squash, pumpkin)
30 lbs Garden Seeds (tomatoes, lettuce, cucumber, carrot, radish,)
30 lbs Plant Cuttings (apple, orange, peach, lemon, pomegranate)
10 lbs of cotton seeds
10 lbs of marijuana seeds (medical purposes)
40 lbs Books - animal husbandry, hunting, tanning, basic blacksmithing,
5 gallons of gasoline
10 lbs concentrated lye

240 lbs

* all metal implements are stainless steel, where possible


ITEMIZED LIST FOR KITS



PERSONAL FIRST AID KITS

Bandaids
Gauze Pads
Gauze
Tape
Scissors
Nail Clippers
Moleskin
Water Tablets
Antiseptic Ointment
Tweezers
Magnifier
Aspirin


LARGE FIRST AID KIT

Bandaids
Gauze Pads
Gauze
Tape
Scissors
Razor
Moleskin
Water Purifying Tablets
Antiseptic Ointment
Ace Bandages
Bug Bite Lotion
Baking Soda
Stomach Medicine
Diarhea Medicine
Cold Tablets
Cough/Throat Lozenges
Mirror
Tweezers
Antiseptic Wipes
Eyewash
Butterfly Bandaids
Cold Pack
Aspirin
Tylenol
Calamine Lotion
Sunburn Lotion
Noxema
Tooth Wax
Tooth Repair Paste
Orajel
Oil of Cloves
Eye Patch
Eye Lubricant
Smelling Salts
Disinfectant Soap
Latex Gloves
CPR Breathing Mask
Ipecac
Charcoal Tablets
Triangular Bandages
Sewing Needles

SUTURE KIT

1 Needle Holder
1 Scissors, 5", stainless
1 Tissue Forceps, Mouse Tooth, 4.5" stainless
1 Nylon Suture, 3-O, w/Cutting Needle
1 Nylon Suture, 5-O, w/Cutting Needle
1 Scalpel Handle and Blade, #11
2 Syringes, 3 ml, plastic
2 Syringes, 5 ml, plastic
1 Irrigation Syringe, 10 ml, 18 ga. catheter tip
2 Needles, 25 ga. x 5/8"
2 Needles, 21 ga. x 1-1/2"
2 Needles, 18 ga. x 1-1/2"
1 Angiocath, 18 ga.
1 IV Admin. Set
10 Cover Strip Wound Closures, 1/4" x 4"
2 Benzoin Swabs
5 Wound Wipes
1 Providone-Iodine, 1%, 1 oz.
2 Surgeon's Gloves, sterile, sz 7.5, 8
2 Trauma Pads, 5" x 9"
2 Gauze Dressings, 4" x 4"
2 Telfa Pads, 3" x 4"
1 Stretch Gauze Bandage, 3"
4 Triple Antibiotic Ointment Packet
1 Adhesive Tape, 1/2" x 5 yd.
1 Sterile Drape
1 Contents List
4 Extra Security Tags



SEWING KIT

Needles
Threads
Buttons
Safety Pins
Speedy Stitcher
Stitcher Thread

PERSONAL GROOMING KIT

Straight Edge Razor
Nose and ear trimmer
Neck line and sideburn trimmer
Nail clippers
Toenail clippers
Tweezers
Nail file
Hair comb
Scissors
Toothbrush
Toothpaste
Hair brush


HORSE GROOMING KIT

1 curry comb
1 mud comb
1 mane/tail comb
1 hoof pick
1 hoof knife
1 14" nipper
1 14" rasp
1 scraper

HORSE TACK

1 Western Saddle - w/ Breast Collar, cinch. girth.
1 Bridle and bit
1 Saddle blanket
2 halter
2 lead line

[SionEwig]

Here's my list of items I'm bringing in. the Weights for them is pretty much just guessed and rough estimae. Hopefully they're not too off. Hopefully I've also brought enough things to ensure me and mine's survival.

MISC
Metal wire, steel - 100 ft.


TOOLS
300 feet Rope, heavy nylon
4 binoculars


WEAPONRY
3 Bows (with bracers)



COMMUNITY PROPERTY

PROVISIONS
50 lbs Flour Pinole
25 lbs Whole Grain Flour
25 lbs Rice
10 lbs Seasoning/Spices
10 lbs Tea
15 lbs Salt
15 lbs Sugar

150 lbs


WEAPONRY
2 30-06 hunting rifle
6 boxes of ammunition
2 .22 rifle
6 boxes of ammunition
2 .357 revolver
6 boxes of ammunition

75 lbs


Real good list there (snipped a bunch for brevity). A few questions and comments though.

On the 100 ft of metal wire - What gauge?

On the 300 feet of nylon rope - What dia.?

On the binoculars - What power?

On the bows - What poundage and type (compound, recurve, or what)?

On the provisions - good estimate there, my figures are showing that an adult with a 3000 cal. diet will eat about 75 lbs in 30 days (2 1/2 lbs/day).

On the 30-06 rifles - Which one, the weight is variable (M1903 Springfields are 8.75 lbs, the M1917 Enfield - in 30-06 - is 9.25 lbs, and many commercial rifles are less)?

On the 30-06, 22LR, and 357 ammunition - How many rounds of ammo (22LR is about 4.4 lbs/500 rds, 30-06 is about 6.5 lbs/100 rds, and 357 is about 2 lbs/50)?

On the 22 rifles and 357 revolvers - Which ones (same comments as for the 30-06 rifles)?

Depending on which firearms you go with and how much ammunition, you could have some weight left over.

[Psychomeltdown]

Real good list there (snipped a bunch for brevity). A few questions and comments though.

On the 100 ft of metal wire - What gauge? probably 10 guage, I'm not looking to do much with it, beyond hang a few things and repair some other bits that might break.

On the 300 feet of nylon rope - What dia.? 3/16" seems a good size.

On the binoculars - What power?2 20X, 2 10X due to the fact we might have to be looking in woods and the like.

On the bows - What poundage and type (compound, recurve, or what)? 75 lbs for me, 55 lbs for the wife, and extra 75 lbs bow just in case.

On the 30-06 rifles - Which one, the weight is variable (M1903 Springfields are 8.75 lbs, the M1917 Enfield - in 30-06 - is 9.25 lbs, and many commercial rifles are less)?

On the 30-06, 22LR, and 357 ammunition - How many rounds of ammo (22LR is about 4.4 lbs/500 rds, 30-06 is about 6.5 lbs/100 rds, and 357 is about 2 lbs/50)?

On the 22 rifles and 357 revolvers - Which ones (same comments as for the 30-06 rifles)?

Depending on which firearms you go with and how much ammunition, you could have some weight left over

.22 Rifle: basically the standardized model everyone is taking, not sure which one...1000 rounds (8.8 lbs)
30-06: I think we agreed on the M1917 Enfield, didn't we? 400 rounds (26 lbs)
.357: A .357 Magnum, Double Action 150 riounds (6 lbs)

[Dave Howery]

Psycho> nice list. Looks a lot like mine, but I didn't detail the sewing and first aid kits... I'll just say mine is "the same as Psycho's" to avoid repetition... you have a few things I forgot, so I'll be updating mine...

[Ward]

probably 10 guage, I'm not looking to do much with it, beyond hang a few things and repair some other bits that might break.

3/16" seems a good size.

2 20X, 2 10X due to the fact we might have to be looking in woods and the like.

75 lbs for me, 55 lbs for the wife, and extra 75 lbs bow just in case.



.22 Rifle: basically the standardized model everyone is taking, not sure which one...1000 rounds (8.8 lbs)
30-06: I think we agreed on the M1917 Enfield, didn't we? 400 rounds (26 lbs)
.357: A .357 Magnum, Double Action 150 riounds (6 lbs)


I'm useing the weights that they are giving in the twight2000 weapon sorce book for weights .

[Flocculencio]

Sounds like a good list Psycho. I think I'll follow that, but with a few changes.

Personal Weaponry:

2x 1859 Infantry Sharps Carbines .54 Cal
6x
2 sets bullet moulds
2kg Lead
2x 1851 Colt Army .44cal revolvers
2x Cavalry sabres
10x heads for spears/lances
2x lance shafts (Just in case :D)
2x spear shafts (I figure we can cut more shafts there)

I don't know how to use a bow so I figure I might as well keep with black powder weapons until I learn how.

Animals:
1x Waler mare. The Waler's an Australian breed, bred as a stockhorse for the arid outback and also the preferred mount of British and Imperial cavalry. I figure those are useful characteristics for our situation.

1x Nanny Goat

[Psychomeltdown]

I'm useing the weights that they are giving in the twight2000 weapon sorce book for weights .
Okay I'll refer to your expertise on this matter. How much for
2 .22 rifles, standardize brand. + 1000 rds
2 30-06 rifles, standardized brand + 300 rds
2 .357 Mags + 150 rds



Since it seems I have an extra 80 lbs left over,

I think I'll take
5 lassos
2 leather chaps (for riding and horse handling)
4 Folding Camping Arm Chairs
5 lbs of smoking tobacco
10 packages of T-shirts
10 packages of heavy work socks


20lbs of blackpowder
4 pickaxes
4 shovels
1000 primers

The shovels, pickaxes, and blackpowder can go to the Community Porperty

[Norbert]

I was going to post this list last night, but had some problems with the board:

10 Large Hunting Knives
5 Hand Mirrors
2 Boar Spears
20 Compasses
1 Spinning Wheel
5 Magnifying Glasses
2 Pick Axes
2 Mattocks
1 Hand Mill
1 Wheel Barrow
2 Short Swords
4 Sets Block and Tackle
6 Triple Pulleys
1 Chain Hoist
5 Wax Tablets
5 Sickles
3 Schytes
12 Pocket Watches
1 Aneroid Barometer
2 Fish Spears
100 Pocket Knives
3 Pr 12x50 Binoculars
3 Pr 8x23 Binoculars
2 Modern Crossbows: 120 lb Pull
2 1860 Army Revolver .44 Cal w/2 Spare Cylinders each
2000 pre-cast .44 cal Balls
1 .54 cal Hawkens Flintlock
1000 pre-cast balls .54
100 Agate Flints
8000 Percussion caps
(2000) Pyrodex pre-formed .44 cal pistol charges
(1000) Pyrodex pre-formed .54 cal rifle charges
3 Butchering Kits
3 25" Butcher Saws w/30 extra blades
300 2 bushel Grain Bags
2 9ft 2 man Crosscut Saws
2 7ft 2 man Crooscut Saws
3 4.5ft 1 man Crosscut Saws
2 Combination Saw Tools and Sharpening Files
2 14" Back Saws
5 Broad Axes with 15 extra Handles
5 Carpenters Adzes with 15 extra Handles
4 Double Bit Axes with 10 extra handles
6 Axe Wedges
1 Large Chest 1901 Sears Carpentry Toos Set
1 Clothing Wringer
2 Wash Boards
2 Wash Tubs
1 1902 Princess Style Cook Stove, 30 feet 6" stove Pipe
3000 ft Para Cord
9 Space Blankets (56"x84")
1 Camp Shower and Shelter
1 Ceramic Water Filter w/2 replacement filter elements
4 Camping Arm Chairs
2 7in1 Sleeping Bags
1 10'8"x20' Modular Wall Tent
1 Tundra Takedown Stove and accesories
1 Fold a Sled
120 pair Ultimax Wool Socks
20 pair Silk Long Underwear (10 mans, 10 womens)
8 Pair Chopper Mitts with 2 Pair Wool Liners
16 Pair Calf Skin Work Gloves
2 Oilskin Hats
2 Sets Carhart Bibbs, Lined
2 Pair Carhart Lined Coveralls
2 Pair Carhart Unlined Coveralls
2 Leather Parka
2 Leather Chore Coats
72 Soft Canvas Trail Shirts
100 T-Shirts
6 Rag Wool Sweaters
30 Pair Blue Jeans
60 Logger Flanel Shirts
60 Pair Mens Briefs, 60 Pair Womens Underwear
50 lb Rice
20 lb Peanut Butter
50 lb Whole Wheat Flour
10 lb Yeast
1 M1917 Enfield Rifle
1000 rounds .30-06 Ammo

For Planting:
1 Bushel Oats (25 lb)
1 Bushel Wheat (50 lb)
1/2 Bushel Barley (20 lb)
1/2 Bushel Rye (22.5 lb)
1/2 Bushel Beans (20 lb)
1/2 Bushel Peas (20 lb)
20 lb Seed Potatoes
20 lb Onion Seed
20 lb Peanuts
1 lb Tobacco Seed

10 lb books including 'Handy Farm Devices and How to Make Them', 'Anarchist Cook Book',

[SionEwig]

I'm useing the weights that they are giving in the twight2000 weapon sorce book for weights .

The Twilight 2000 wieght list was only semi accurate. Better was the list for Morrow Project, or like I did, get the stuff out and put it on the scale, which is what I have done with weapons and ammunition.

[SionEwig]

FOOD INFORMATION

Using the lightest weight food I could come up with while also taking into account maximizing nutritional value (and you won't really get any lighter than this), I figured on using Mountain Home freeze dried food.

For 3000 cal./day - 2.5 lbs (75 lbs/30 days)
For 2000 cal./day - 1 2/3 lbs (50 lbs/30 days)
For 1500 cal./day - 1.25 lbs (37.5 lbs/30 days)

[Norbert]

GURPS weights were pretty good, Look at TL7 equipment. I believe that a site called Dreambirds Lair is still up, and had a list for equipment on it. It also had a section on weapons. No Guarentees though, I have not looked for it fo a few months.

[Psychomeltdown]

BASIC KIT?



ANIMALS
1 large animal
1 medium animal

BEDDING
2 Thermal sleeping bags
1 Two or more person tent


COOKING
1 Skillet
1 Pan
1 large pot
Utensils - forks, spoons, ladles, knives, etc.
2 Bowls
2 Cups
2 Canteen


MISC
2 sewing kits
2 large tarps
2 Fishing gear
2 personal grooming kits
5 Flint and Strikers
5 large plastic storage containers
50 lbs Farm Seeds
25 lbs Garden Seeds


TOOLS
2 shovels
2 axes
1 pickaxe
2 digging bars
1 hammer
1 mallet
5 boxes assorted nails
1 sledgehammer
2 hand saw files
3 flat file
2 handsaw
1 two man crosscut saw
2 hatchets
5 All purpose knives
2 whetstones
150 feet Rope, heavy nylon. 3/16"
2 binoculars
1 compasses
1 signal mirrors
5 draw knives


PROVISIONS
75 lbs Whole Grain Flour
75 lbs Rice
25 lbs Salt


MEDICINES
2 Large First Aid Kits
2 Personal First Aid Kits
Vitamins (C and others, 1 yr)
Hallzone tablets

WEAPONRY
2 30-06 M1917 Enfield
100 rds
2 .22 rifle
500 rds
2 .357 revolver
50 rds

[Psychomeltdown]

694 Members

694 Large animals
Horse - work horses
Cattle- meat and leather
Llama - wool and good guard aniamls
Dairy cows - milk
Donkeys - work donkeys
Oxen - work burros

694 medium animals
Pigs - meat
Sheep - wool and meat
Goats - mo hair, meat, milk
Dogs - guard aniamals

Small Animals (these will go to the weight you're carrying)
cats - rodent killers
chickens - eggs, meat
rabbits - meat, fur
turkeys - meat
ducks - meat
geese - meat


For the large animals i think we should look at what we're going to be doing. What work needs to be done. A lot of farming, hunting, logging, transporting, etc. We'll need a hell of a lot of horses for this. Cattle won't be able to be touched at least for a few years, after all we need to get the herds up to a large number. Llamas will probably be only used for wool, Dairy cows for milk for the young, donkeys and oxen are work animals therefore we may need a good number of them too. Mostly the donkeys.

Therefore:

Large Animals

400 horses, 350 mares, 50 stallions.
75 donkeys, 65 female, 10 males
75 oxen, 65 female, 10 bulls
75 cattle. 65 female, 10 bulls
48 dairy cows, 40 cows, 8 bulls
20 llamas, 17 female, 3 male
1 buffalo (Shade's) male?


For the Medium animals we'll be needing meat and we'll be needing wool the most. Clothign will wear out quickly and we'll need a way to replace it. But food is the most important thing, therefore the pigs are needed more, a lot more and in large neough numbers that they can keep reporducing and keep the people in alive. Sheep are next important, needing thier woold to make cloth. Goats are good for their Mo hair and are hardy survivors. Dogs. we'll need a lot of them, to guard the community and to guard the herds.

Medium Animals

300 Pigs, 225 females, 25 males
250 Sheep 225 ewes, 25 rams
80 Goats 70 female, 10 male
64 Dogs - assorted

[Dave Howery]

sounds good to me... but apparently 30% of our group is wandering off to get killed by the natives, so how many horses do we lose to their hare-brained scheme?

[Psychomeltdown]

at least 200 large animals
200 medium animals
30000 + food
not to mention innumerable tools and other supplies.

This is why I'm going for the gather the animals in one place and guard them tightly approach.

if they want to leave, let them friggin' walk. :mad: