View Full Version : DBWI: Operation Sealion not attempted?
May 21st, 2012, 02:34 PM
So today we know the failure of Operation Sea Lion and the ensuing problems from all of the lost German materials lead to the end of the war in 1943, now the common WI is to ask what if the Germans won but What If it never happened in the first place? This avoids the entire debacle and makes them far stronger in the long run and avoids the poor planning endemic to the OTL plan.
May 21st, 2012, 03:48 PM
Well D-Day would have probably been delayed too summer or Fall 1943, maybe August or September. Would be ideal for the Soviets, who might have not been able to counter against the Germans in the East as much, but could have made much more advances(maybe Kiev or Minsk) if the Americans and British enter Berlin much later. Advances from Italy would have been delayed as well. End of the war in Early 1944?
May 21st, 2012, 04:24 PM
Hitler's insistance on going ahead with Sealion in September 1940 was, beyond doubt his third worst deision of the war. Quite why he declared war on the USA after Pearl Harbour in December 1941 or invaded the Soviet Union in May 1941 is a matter of debate for historians. Had Stalinn not decimated the Soviet officer corps during the purges the Red Army would have stopped the Wehrmact cold at Kiev and Smolensk rather than, as they did, at the gates of Moscow and Leningrad in August and September. It was of course the devestating German disasters at Kursk and Kharkov in July 1943, combined with Operation Roundup (D Day) in August that led to the the General staff coup d'etat which overthew the Nazis on 1 September that resulted in the German peace offer and the Armistace of Caen that ended WW2 in Europe. In fact it is amazing the German forces in France held the allied landings in Normandy and the Pas de Calais. Most historians severely castigate the Allies for failing to concentrate on one of these areas and failing to learn the lessons of the Dieppe aid. Had the Germans not already stripped the occupation forces in France and indeed in the rest of Europe I suspect Roundup would have been a disaster rather than just the relative failure it is considered to be. As for the German disaster in Russia (Operation Citadel) followed by the final encirclement of a large part of Army Group South's Panzer division around Kharkov in mid August 1944, the Soviet breakthough on the River Mius and around Orel this effectively finished the war in Russia with the exception of Model's rear gaurd actions back through Russia aand Poland to the German border which did regain some honour for German arms in the West. Rommel's defence of France was another brilliant feat although his memoirs do seem to brag a little in places. Of course he became Cheif of Staff after the war under the Speer government and became President himself in 1955 as we all know. As for the death camps we all know these were the result of the Nazi poplicies and failure to control the Algemeine SS. The Speer government ensured those who perpetrated these atrocities and those. like Himmler who gave the orders. Since Hitler himself had already been exeuted by firing squad within hours of the coup he could not himself face trial as most people would have liked, particularly after the fact about the extermination camps and other atrocities came to public knowledge. The Speer government began to make ammends by recognising the State of Isreal and supplying much ex Wehrmacht equipment
Kevin in Indy
May 21st, 2012, 11:22 PM
Hitler's insistance on going ahead with Sealion in September 1944 was, beyond doubt his third worst deision of the war.
I like the concept, but I think you mean September 1940.
I think also that you need to find a way to eliminate the "unconditional surrender" approach in order to put Speer in power, but if the relative gains of the USSR vs. the US/UK are different then that might be a possibility.
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