View Full Version : Early 1960s with Civil Rights already accomplished - what happens?
February 29th, 2012, 02:03 PM
For my "If Baseball Integrated Early"/"Brotherhood and baseball" unvierse (Next NaNoWriMo may be set there in an alternate '60s/'70s) but equally applicable if we Civil Rights in the '20s after an Underwood Presidency int he teens or maybe even a 1951 Voting Rights Act after Truman & Barkeley die & a 1956 Civil Rights Act. (Where the only difference is, unlike the IBIE and "Civil Rights in '20s" TL the military isn't integrated during World War 2, while it would be int he first 2.)
Muliple choice b/c of a few questions.
1. I presume Truman wins eaier in '48 in the first 2 b/c of no split, but does the lack of civil Rights as an issue make a Nixon win easier? A Kennedy win easier? Does it depend on the V.P.?
2. Addition tot he last, does JFK pick LBJ if he doesn't feel he needs the South? Or does he anyway and it doesn't matter as much to the Conservative wing because he wants to balance the ticket?
3. Does he even need to go to Dallas in 1963 to campaign, and if not, does anyone try to assassinate him elsewhere? Oswald may not even have moti ve, but even if he does, then he'd lack opoprtunity.
4. Does JFK run in '64? I've read so many conflicting thigns on here about how bad his Addison's Disease was.
February 29th, 2012, 02:07 PM
Well, assuming a butterfly net here:
1. Depends on the VP, but:
2. LBJ probably heads the ticket, since he would be the one passing Civil Rights legislation.
3. Could go either way, butterflies you know. Personally, I'm a fan of Tecumseh's Curse.
4. If he's President, yeah. I think LBJ would win in '60 though, as the hero of the Civil Rights Act of 1956.
February 29th, 2012, 05:38 PM
Anything that causes Civil Rights to have won by the early '60s would so affect the rest of politics and society that your questions are, IMO, meaningless. Sorry.
It would be a HUGE, huge sea change in politics, and would affect just about everything else.
February 29th, 2012, 06:18 PM
I don't think the Kennedy assassination is affected, other than by butterflies. Oswalt was a lone nut. As for Dallas, it isn't Birmingham - its big beef with the Left was really more anti-communism than Civil Rights.
However, the late Sixties is unimaginably different. The counter-culture is marginal (about like the beat generation), the US stays more conservative (not necessarily more Republican though) and profoundly anti-Communist. No major mass anti-Vietnam movement, if at all, until considerably later. (Personally, I think the US stays the course through TTL's Paris Peace Accords and South Vietnam, backed up by US air power, survives another generation, finally stabilizing by the 90's).
MLK is still a big deal and probably lives a lot longer. No one ever hears of Malcolm X. No school busing, no affirmative action, no sizable Nation of Islam, no Kwanzaa.
February 29th, 2012, 06:21 PM
Okay, thanks, both of ou. Of course others can continue this, but, interesting thoughts here...
It's true that it's probably easiest for my IBIE world to just mention one with a POD that far back. It seems like it'd feel out of place to have fictional political figures but real baseball players (except for my MC0 in a 3rd book of the series if I do a NaNoWriMo there. But, yeah, if the military was integrated in WW 2 that might actually cause more of a shakeup than I think. And it's not as important as it is for the reader to be saying, Okay, that makes sense for the Philadelphia Athletics to do this if owned by the CArpenters with the Phillies having folded."
As for the possibility of an Act in 1956, yeah, I'm thinking about a TL with Truman being assassinated in 1950, based on what was said int he thread.:) I actually thought up Sam Rayburn's short inaugural address if Barkeley also dies while I was in the shower last night.
But don't expect it to come very fast. I'd rather start the other I have in mind first, with Jefferson in ''1796 winning; I just need the right time for it. I was a bit too busy with RL work and we didn't have a really harshwinter like the previous 2 years which I expected to keep me inside much more.
February 29th, 2012, 06:36 PM
The PoD that comes to mind to achieve this scenario is a President Earl Warren. As Chief Justice, Warren presided over Brown vs. Board of Education and ruled that segregation was unconstitutional.
Warren was Dewey's running mate in 1948; so the game plan here is: What if he was not on the ticket in 48, but became the Nominee in 1952? Eisenhower would probably have decided not to run and whoever was the Vice Presidential Nominee in 48 would be wrecked. But PotUS Warren would probably decide to make a very substantive Civil Rights act instead of Eisenhower's attempts.
There would be no chance of Warren picking Nixon as a VP. However, his VP may well be the major Republican choice in 1960. Perhaps its Harold Stassen; it might be Joseph McCarthy (Shudder!), Prescott Bush, or anyone else needed to keep the Eastern Establishment on board and/or fire up the crowds. Alternatively, Nelson Rockefeller simply sweeps in and grabs the spot.
With the GOP taking the lead on Civil Rights, the Democrats are also left in an odd position. They may be assured of the South, particularly if someone like Strom Thurmond is the #2 man on the ticket, but picking the #1 choice is harder. Its hard to see John F. Kennedy trying to win the support of Southern Racists; I think their man may be Estes Kefauver.
So, throwing some authorial bias on the process here:
1960: Estes Kefauver / Strom Thurmond vs. Nelson Rockefeller / Joe Foss.
No Nixon, No JFK, no LBJ. But whoever wins probably does an OK job as President.
February 29th, 2012, 07:03 PM
Potential PODs to have civil rights accomplished a few decades early could include:
President James Garfield serves both of his terms. Garfield was a very bright fellow with commitments to reform and civil rights.
Lincoln doesn't get shot. I think Lincoln is able to pull off what Johnson was not, that is, accomplish reconstruction goals with magnamity and authority, etc.
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