Double Blind: Nixon is connected to watergate

[Fenwick]

In 1972 a little known article was printed. It claimed that Nixon was connected to a break in at the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee. An investigation by the FBI was made into claims that the men who commited the burglary were connected with the president. But this was dismissed due to Nixon's huge lead in the polls. Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward and along with his colleague, Carl Bernstein, began an investigation into the burglary. They claimed a man name "deepthroat" (no lie) was a source to crimes commited by Nixon himself. Of course nothing happened.

Could Nixon be impeached for the watergate break in? Would any body even try? Could America be diffrent without Nixon? Would the reporters be famous? Or traitors?

[Hermanubis]

impeached? An American President in the 20th century? Hard to believe. Could cost him his second term, thou It might not really come out till after…

[Wendell]

Would we have the nationalized Healthcare system in place without Nixon's full second term?

[Straha]

Perhaps without Nixon's steady hand in charge of the GOP we see conservatism evolving into something more fascist. Perhaps in this TL we've got a highly christian, anti-capitalist, anti-immigration, anti-black GOP?

[Fenwick]

Perhaps without Nixon's steady hand in charge of the GOP we see conservatism evolving into something more fascist. Perhaps in this TL we've got a highly christian, anti-capitalist, anti-immigration, anti-black GOP?

How does that work? Even if Nixon somehow was impeached what on earth could turn the Republicans into that? Would not the realistic thing be the Republicans breaking up?

[carlton_bach]

Well, the Republicanbs would need something to hold the party together, and with the Democrats having given up the Southern white vote, they could conceivably turn that way. Of course, that would require a good deal less scruple and personal honour than you expect from the party of Abraham Lincoln, but less likely things have happened. Who would have thought the Democrats of all people making themselves into the party of Civil Rights?

Consider, too, that with the south not voting Reform, the Republicans wouldn't have to depend so strongly on the northern Middle Class vote. That would translate into less protectionist and more pro-free-market policies (they need not worry about alienating the industrial workers, after all, and the farmers are evenly divided).

Which brings up another interesting question: in a USA that is still two-party, if the Republicans play race in the south, what will the Democrats counter that with? Does anyone remember Carter's bid for the candidacy in '76? Trying to take the South on a basis of religion and personal integrity (personal integrity campaigning from a Democrat is a bit rich, but with him I actually believe it). What if he had pulled it off? Would the Democrats have made religion into their vote-winner? Could we see a contest between secular, race-bashing, pro-white-middle-class, pro-rich Republicans and bible-thumping, civil-righter, pro-working-class Democrats?

[Rabbit Scribe]

Does anyone remember Carter's bid for the candidacy in '76? Trying to take the South on a basis of religion and personal integrity (personal integrity campaigning from a Democrat is a bit rich, but with him I actually believe it).

Oh, LOL! I hadn't thought about him in years! Remember how, in the Doonesbury comic strip, this American couple had adopted a Vietnamese orphan who started channeling Jimmy Carter, and she's in her high chair yelling, "Issues, bissues, missues, schmissues, tissues! I just want to talk about my character!" and her daddy says, "Honey, you make it all to easy." Remember when Carter said, "I have never commited adultery, but I have lusted in my heart." on national television! Oh, priceless, LOL...

(edit) So after I posted this, I got curious and Googled Jimmy Carter to see where he had ended up. He, er, travels 250-300 days a year raising money for Oxfam, a big famine-relief organization. He, um, apparently poured all his money into this Hatian natal healthcare organization that has reduced the island's infant mortality rate by a third. They also, uh, distribute concentrated chlorine in these teeny eyedropper thingies that cost less than a dime, are the size of a ball-point pen, and can provide a family with clean drinking water for two months. The device was invented by a little start-up company wholly funded by Gov. Carter. Y'know, before he gave all his money away to save Hatian babies.

So I sent Oxfam a hundred bucks. But I'm still an asshole...

[Fenwick]

Oh, LOL! I hadn't thought about him in years! Remember how, in the Doonesbury comic strip, this American couple had adopted a Vietnamese orphan who started channeling Jimmy Carter, and she's in her high chair yelling, "Issues, bissues, missues, schmissues, tissues! I just want to talk about my character!" and her daddy says, "Honey, you make it all to easy." Remember when Carter said, "I have never commited adultery, but I have lusted in my heart." on national television! Oh, priceless, LOL...

(edit) So after I posted this, I got curious and Googled Jimmy Carter to see where he had ended up. He, er, travels 250-300 days a year raising money for Oxfam, a big famine-relief organization. He, um, apparently poured all his money into this Hatian natal healthcare organization that has reduced the island's infant mortality rate by a third. They also, uh, distribute concentrated chlorine in these teeny eyedropper thingies that cost less than a dime, are the size of a ball-point pen, and can provide a family with clean drinking water for two months. The device was invented by a little start-up company wholly funded by Gov. Carter. Y'know, before he gave all his money away to save Hatian babies.

So I sent Oxfam a hundred bucks. But I'm still an asshole...

Carter did that? The guy who farmed peanuts? What next governer Reagan runs for President?

I went looking into the watergate scandal some more and the FBI but an investigator on it. After the article came out many within the FBI suspected the Democrates planting the information to hurt Nixon's chances in the election. Agent Mark Felt the second in command of the FBI headed the investigation. No real evidence came out to prove anything.

A side effect was the Presidental Security Act of 1974, which gave Intellegence agencys more access to sharing information, and more powers to investigate possible threats to Government personal, and buildings.

[Yellmic Wigwawa]

In 1972 a little known article was printed. It claimed that Nixon was connected to a break in at the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee. An investigation by the FBI was made into claims that the men who commited the burglary were connected with the president. But this was dismissed due to Nixon's huge lead in the polls. Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward and along with his colleague, Carl Bernstein, began an investigation into the burglary. They claimed a man name "deepthroat" (no lie) was a source to crimes commited by Nixon himself. Of course nothing happened.

Could Nixon be impeached for the watergate break in? Would any body even try? Could America be diffrent without Nixon? Would the reporters be famous? Or traitors?


An interesting idea ....

OK, so let's assume Nixon won the election in 1972, but that in a year or two, definite, incontrovertible proof existed that he was involved in the DNC burglary - say an order in RN's own handwriting.

Obviously Nixon wouldn't go without a fight - he's not the sort to quit - so it might well go to an impeachment. Asume the "DNC affair" erupts in May 1973, and that the US government is virtually paralysed for 18 months as a result. There's a big war in the Middle East in 1973-74, with large parts of Cairo, damascus and Jerusalem in ruins.

I'll stick my neck out and forecast the following:

The Vietnam war re-starting in 1977, with President Muskie refusing to commit US ground troops, and the North finally winning this time, unifying Vietnam under Hanoi on May Day 1978. Saigon is renamed "Ho Chi Minh City".

Muskie defeats President Agnew in 1976 in a landslide.

Muskie loses big in 1980 to a conservative Republican, possibly John Connally. Either George Bush or Ronald Reagan is VP.

In 1984, Connally defeats Edward Kennedy, but is assasinated in early 1985.

After that, it just gets too far from reality to make sense. Maybe the Soviet Union and the US gradually start to trust each other a bit more, just like it happened in real life.

[Wendell]

An interesting idea ....

OK, so let's assume Nixon won the election in 1972, but that in a year or two, definite, incontrovertible proof existed that he was involved in the DNC burglary - say an order in RN's own handwriting.

Obviously Nixon wouldn't go without a fight - he's not the sort to quit - so it might well go to an impeachment. Asume the "DNC affair" erupts in May 1973, and that the US government is virtually paralysed for 18 months as a result. There's a big war in the Middle East in 1973-74, with large parts of Cairo, damascus and Jerusalem in ruins.

I'll stick my neck out and forecast the following:

The Vietnam war re-starting in 1977, with President Muskie refusing to commit US ground troops, and the North finally winning this time, unifying Vietnam under Hanoi on May Day 1978. Saigon is renamed "Ho Chi Minh City".

Muskie defeats President Agnew in 1976 in a landslide.

Muskie loses big in 1980 to a conservative Republican, possibly John Connally. Either George Bush or Ronald Reagan is VP.

In 1984, Connally defeats Edward Kennedy, but is assasinated in early 1985.

After that, it just gets too far from reality to make sense. Maybe the Soviet Union and the US gradually start to trust each other a bit more, just like it happened in real life.
Unless, Nixon could pin such accusations on the Vice President, and dump him for say, George Bush?

[carlton_bach]

Unless, Nixon could pin such accusations on the Vice President, and dump him for say, George Bush?

Wha... The CIA director? As VP? Get real! Spooks are radioactive. Especially in an environment where politics is consiodered dirty anyway.

[Wendell]

Wha... The CIA director? As VP? Get real! Spooks are radioactive. Especially in an environment where politics is consiodered dirty anyway.
He was a veteran of the Second World War...

[carlton_bach]

He was a veteran of the Second World War...

Along with how many million others? He was CIA, that is the death sentence to any political career. The only way he could be VP is if it is understood from the start he will not seek the presidency afterwards, and even then he'd be a drag on the ticket. You'd need the Democratic equivalent of Herbert Hoover running against you before you could consider that. Nixon would want an asset in that situation, not a liability.

[Wendell]

Along with how many million others? He was CIA, that is the death sentence to any political career. The only way he could be VP is if it is understood from the start he will not seek the presidency afterwards, and even then he'd be a drag on the ticket. You'd need the Democratic equivalent of Herbert Hoover running against you before you could consider that. Nixon would want an asset in that situation, not a liability.
Who then, would he chuse?

[Grimm Reaper]

"I want a WWII veteran as my new running mate."

"We've narrowed it down to 17 million Americans, Mr President."

Questions follow:

carlton, if the Democrats abandoned the white vote down south the GOP shouldn't have to do much to get them.

Yellmic, if US has pulled out the ground troops, how would Muskie restart the war in the first place? If the US still has troops on the ground, how does Muskie restart a war while refusing to fight it?

Given such a scandal, George Bush could not be a viable candidate as he is the ultimate Washington insider. It would governors like Reagan for the GOP and Cuomo for the Democrats.

Connally? Too soon for the GOP to run a Texan and how can the DEMs leave the south and then run Governor Carter?

[carlton_bach]

carlton, if the Democrats abandoned the white vote down south the GOP shouldn't have to do much to get them.


Abandoning the Southern vote in the long term would bne political suicide because of the knock-on effect. If the Old South becomes a Republican centre of gravity, the GOp will target neighbouring areas with similar strategies. If you can win Texas, you can win New Mexico and Colorado. If you can win Kentucky, you can win Ohio. Also, the Democrats could always have come back into the so-called 'New South'. Not all white Southerners actually voted on race, and if the dems managed to corner religion they would have had a leg to stand on. I think that's what Carter was trying. Give the guy some credit, he'd have made a better bishop than presidential candidate, but as running mate he could have delivered southern votes. I think the potential of the carter strategy is underestimated. How many million Americans define themselves as Christian first? Imagine if you could politicise them!

And - Reagan? Surely, after Vietnam the last thing the country wanted was another cowboy. Even a fake one.

[Wendell]

Abandoning the Southern vote in the long term would bne political suicide because of the knock-on effect. If the Old South becomes a Republican centre of gravity, the GOp will target neighbouring areas with similar strategies. If you can win Texas, you can win New Mexico and Colorado. If you can win Kentucky, you can win Ohio. Also, the Democrats could always have come back into the so-called 'New South'. Not all white Southerners actually voted on race, and if the dems managed to corner religion they would have had a leg to stand on. I think that's what Carter was trying. Give the guy some credit, he'd have made a better bishop than presidential candidate, but as running mate he could have delivered southern votes. I think the potential of the carter strategy is underestimated. How many million Americans define themselves as Christian first? Imagine if you could politicise them!

And - Reagan? Surely, after Vietnam the last thing the country wanted was another cowboy. Even a fake one.
JFK, LBJ, Nixon. Who was the cowboy?:confused:

[Gerry]

Is it Bush? :p

[Wendell]

Is it Bush? :p
Good to see you, Gerry:D

[Tom_B]

The survival of Richard Nixon's Presidency is 50/50 IMHO but even if he survived the damage to his reputation and his daughter's would be ipermanent and obviously Julie would not have gone on to become our first female President.

Tom

[Gerry]

Nein. Having lived through the fall out of the Nixon years..... there is no way in hell anyone connected with his or Ford's regieme could hope to be ellected dog catcher.

[MarkWhittington]

I don't see a fifth rate burglary bringing down a sitting President. If it did, thing could get rather horrific. Let's say Nixon falls before the NVA offensive in 1975. With a weakened President Agnew wouldn't have been able to supply ARVN with spare parts, munition, and air support to stave off the attack. South Vietnam might have actually fallen to the Communist, instead of being the fifth Asian tiger it is today.

Other effects? A Democrat would have been elected President in 1976, probably someone like Mo Udall or Muskie. With no Bush presidency, look for all sorts of foreign policy disasters to ensue in the late 70s. Then, I predict a GOP backlash in 1980. Not Reagan, as some hoped. Howard Baker would be my guess.

[Gerry]

What about a "dark horse" candidate like McCain? Vietnam Vet / War Hero and all......

[Straha]

If you guys want to have the GOP go conservative you'll need to avoid the release of the Reagan bestiality tapes in 1978....

[Gerry]

Lemme guess...... a bulldog. :rolleyes: :p

[Othniel]

Wha... The CIA director? As VP? Get real! Spooks are radioactive. Especially in an environment where politics is consiodered dirty anyway.
Well Nixon himself applied for the FBI in the late 1930s,(not double blinding there, OTL all) upon being rejected he became a lawyer. So to say nixon did have respect for the intelligence community.

[Straha]

So bush as Nixon's VP at some point? Course once the Reagan bestiality tapes incident happens he'd be seen as being too conservative for the nation...

Gerry- Of course it was a bulldog, this is the GOP we're talking about.

[Gerry]

Is a dog fetish required to join Greed Oil Power?

[Yellmic Wigwawa]

"I want a WWII veteran as my new running mate."

"We've narrowed it down to 17 million Americans, Mr President."

Questions follow:

Yellmic, if US has pulled out the ground troops, how would Muskie restart the war in the first place? If the US still has troops on the ground, how does Muskie restart a war while refusing to fight it?

Connally? Too soon for the GOP to run a Texan and how can the DEMs leave the south and then run Governor Carter?


Don't you know your history? Have you forgotten the NVA's abortive 1975 invasion, which was stopped in its tracks by Nixon's massive use of bombers?

[Straha]

Is a dog fetish required to join Greed Oil Power?
how'd you know?