WI: Star Trek TNG Not Canceled?

[Emperor Norton I]

The Next Generation was canceled after 7 seasons, though nobody seemed to be quite sure why. There were suggestions that the salaries were getting too high and new Trek shows would cost less because of lower salaries for those actors, and there were suggestions that Paramount thought a film series would be better than the TV series and that both could not run at the same time, and so on and so on. TNG itself was certainly very profitable and successful so the cancellation seems odd. TNG was also the last really successful Star Trek series, save perhaps DS9. Of note, TNG also seemed to have set the trend, as the rest of the series were canceled after 7 seasons, save for ENT.

So what if TNG was not canceled after 7 season, and continued for a couple seasons more?

[Readman]

I would have been excellent if after Generations they launched either a new series Star Trek: Sovereign, or a mini-series but with a big budget for FX, like Band of Brothers or something.

[Emperor Norton I]

I would have been excellent if after Generations they launched either a new series Star Trek: Sovereign, or a mini-series but with a big budget for FX, like Band of Brothers or something.

Well what they could have done, if they did do Generations still and didn't just not do a movie and instead continue the show for a few more years, is simply kept TNG going. That may have entailed keeping the Enterprise-D, though (I'm not sure how expensive the Enterprise-E model was to use and film).

[stodge]

Weren't they already making both DS9 and Voyager by the time TNG finished? I really can't see them doing three shows simultaenously.

Both DS9 and Voyager ran for seven seasons as well. As for TNG, the last season was more introspective and less dramatic than some of what had gone before and I thought it had pretty much run its course.

There weren't many lines that were left unresolved and I don't think the principal characters could have been developed further - or rather they were via DS9 in the case of Worf and Ro Laren, as would have happened in DS9 had the original idea been possible.

Where else could they have gone - another round with the Borg or Q (both off to Voyager) or another Romulan plot story (to be covered in various movies). If they'd gone with Riker having his own ship, they'd have been going over the same old ground.

The only two options were to go forward again or, as they did, go back to nearer the start.

[Emperor Norton I]

Weren't they already making both DS9 and Voyager by the time TNG finished? I really can't see them doing three shows simultaenously.


DS9 was running concurrent. It started after TNG started, but TNG was running at the same time as it until it was canceled. Voyager was coming in 1995, which was a year after TNG was canceled.

[achilles483]

They might have had to steal some storylines that eventually found it's way into DS9. Maybe the Cardassians becoming a more important part of the story, I think that the Dominion war on TNG would have been very interesting, see the Enterprise D or E in some epic space battles, also the toll that would take on the crew, always being on the front lines. I imagine that the Federation Flagship would be a pretty prominant presence on the battlefront. They also could have delved more into the Romulan/Vulcan reunification and the effects that would have on the quadrant.

[V-J]

I don't think it was 'cancelled' in any meaningful sense, I think the plan had always been to run it for about five to seven seasons. I think it was less a cancellation and more a drawing to a natural close. How many TV series run for more than seven years?

[pompejus]

DS9 was running concurrent. It started after TNG started, but TNG was running at the same time as it until it was canceled. Voyager was coming in 1995, which was a year after TNG was canceled.
I believe that they started creating Voyager and the movie Generations when they knew TNG would end after its 7th season. The 7th series suffered because of it, as they were too busy with not only Deep Space Nine, but also the next movie and Voyager. So if they decide to go with TNG, I think we will neither see Voyager or Geneartions (at least for a while). That would probably increase the 7th season (which still had many classic and great episodes).

I think TNG will leave the Cardassians, Bajoran and Maquis mainly to DS9 and mainly focus on Klingons and Romulans, but it will probably have some crossvers somehow. If DS9 still goes for the Dominion wars (which I kind of doubt I must admit) it will suddenly get very interesting, but TNG's interaction with the Klingons and Romulans (and possibly other species) will add many butterflies to the story.

If after a couple of seasons TNG (and possibly DS9) get cancelled we get a very different kind of movies than we did OTL, as TNG will be interwoven with DS9's storyline more.

Still I must admit that I think 7 seasons of TNG was probably enough. If we look at Voyager and Enterprise Star Trek slowly began to suffer because of its longivity. TNG has a better chance as it had better actors and characters (and more viewers), but in the end it will sadly slowly become worse, like every good series becomes worse after running too long. Better let it stop when it is still good, than slowly descent into mediocracy.

[Johnestauffer]

I think most series suffer in the latter years. A popular series often continues even though the quality of the plot line declines.
Much over 6 or 7 years is pushing the envelop for some.
A series should start with an overall story arc. When that is completed, end the series gracefully - don't let it die due to lack of production support or loss of fan base.
In some cases, the length of a series is more based on financial reward (number of viewers) than quality of production.

With the scheduling fun & games networks play with programs today, I doubt some of the older Star Trek series would have lasted as long as they did.

[whatisinaname]

Apparently according to Wiki, the cast were contracted for 8 seasons, so another season is prob possible, so instead of 7 seasons STTNG could go to 8 seasons , with a possible 2 more depending on cast contracts being renewed.

This could push STTNG into 1997 or early 1998 before coming to an end?

[Johnrankins]

You could always get rid of Voyager! :D I don't think too many people would object to that.

[whatisinaname]

Here are my rough thoughts for Seasons 8 to 9 this two seasons would have an ark theme of freeing Bajor, this would be achieved by the end of Season 9.

Season 10 would also coincide with Season 1 of DS9 these two seasons would also be linked, by the plot of keeping Bajor free the end of STTNG season 10 and the end of season 1 of DS9 would have the first encounter with the Dominion.

The last episode of STTNG season 10 would have the loss of the Enterprise D to a Dominion attack, though most of the crew are saved, allowing them to be in the following movie.

Season 2 onwards of DS9 would deal with the threat posed by the Dominion along with the arrival of the USS Defiant?

The first STTNG movie would also see the crew of the new Enterprise E entering Dominion space cumulating in the beginning of the Dominion at the end of the movie this would also have a tie in with Season 3 or 4 of DS9.

DS9 Seasons 5 t0 10 would deal with the Dominion war, along with the next one or two STTNG movies, with one of these movies involving bringing in the Romulans into the war against the Dominion?

This would also mean no ST Voyager and possibly a follow on show showing the post war Federation in some way... ?

[wietze]

You could always get rid of Voyager! :D I don't think too many people would object to that.

I would object :p

Have to agree that tng didn't have much more life in it, too many risks of repetition, or they should have done some radical changes.

Personally i think that enterprise ENT could have had a few more seasons, especially the temporal cold war would have supplied quite a few opportunities.

If they had adopted longer story arcs for TNG like they later did on ENT they would have been able to give it a new lease of life. (and they shouldn't have made the mistake to let actors direct,ugh whoever let frakes behind the camera was a moron). Would have loved some ENT episodes playing in the mirror universe.
They could have abandoned (or never start) DS9 (which was a bad Babylon5 copy anyways) in order to concentrate on TNG.

[CalBear]

TV shows have a lifespan. Seven years is a REALLY good run. After that you have a tendency to have so much backstory that you get hidebound. You can alter that, to a degree, by on-going character replacement (ER & CSI are good U.S. examples), but it needs to be the right kind of show to make that work. TNG really wasn't a good candidate since the core characters were the reason for the show's success (Picard & Riker in particular, although Worf became a major part later in the series).

The problem wasn't that TNG went away, it was that the two replacements (which is sort of remarkable in itself) DS9 & VOY simply weren't built on as successful of a formula. DS9, in particular, was very weak, requiring the addition of the Worf character to keep it from early oblivion, and VOY never seemed to capture the imagination of the core audience that propelled TNG.

I would actually say that the time is ripe for a new Trek. Enterprise failed because it wasn't far enough into the future and was too bloody dreary. A post DS9 based on the Enterprise G or I built onto the post war Quadrant with a good cast and a mix of TNG & DS9 hopefulness and grit could be huge.

[Dave Howery]

I always thought Enterprise failed because it didn't really deliver what the fans wanted... stories of the early days of the Federation. Instead, there was the nonsense about the Temporal Cold War, the Xindi, and all that; Enterprise was the first Trek series I didn't bother to watch all the episodes. The last season of the series was actually interesting, with what was obviously the run-up to the Romulan war... but it was too little, too late...

[Kissinger]

You could always get rid of Voyager! :D I don't think too many people would object to that.

I would like to object to this guy!

[Some Bloke]

Ok say it runs for the 8 contracted seasons. Keep in mind that DS9 was concurrent with the later part of season 6, so have the Enterprise lost at the end of season 8 defending a convoy against a Dominion Attack, buying them enough time for it to escape, they realise the can't carry on, cue decision to abandon ship.

Maybe have the finale told in flashbacks at Picard's statutory Court Martial with all the major characters giving evidence including DS9 guest stars (scene with Dax & Worf holding hands on the Promenade?).

1st TNG movie set during the Dominion War. Picard as a Rear Admiral with Riker in comand of the Enterprise E? Film series ends with Riker himself finally accepting Flag Rank?

[pompejus]

Ok say it runs for the 8 contracted seasons. Keep in mind that DS9 was concurrent with the later part of season 6, so have the Enterprise lost at the end of season 8 defending a convoy against a Dominion Attack, buying them enough time for it to escape, they realise the can't carry on, cue decision to abandon ship.

Maybe have the finale told in flashbacks at Picard's statutory Court Martial with all the major characters giving evidence including DS9 guest stars (scene with Dax & Worf holding hands on the Promenade?).

1st TNG movie set during the Dominion War. Picard as a Rear Admiral with Riker in comand of the Enterprise E? Film series ends with Riker himself finally accepting Flag Rank?

I don't know about this. Although the Dominion was introduced at the end of season 2 of DS9, the war started only in season 5. Even if we assume the Dominion isn't butterflied away, I think that TNG won't intervene in the rise of the Dominion during season 3 of DS9. That will be DS9 focus, while TNG will focus on something else. I have no doubt that there will be some crossover, like there was 1 TNG episode about the Maquis. As I said TNG will focus on Klingons, Romulans and possibly Borg, while remaining a more episodic show. There will be no doubt some mention of the Dominion, I expect at least one episode about a changeling infiltrator, the Dominion will remain mostly a focus of DS9. A movie about the Dominion war is possible though.

[double7double]

star trek the next generation could of went the route of doctor who

everly 7 years a new cast is created for the crew of the enterprise d.

for example 1994through 1997 the original cast of tng appear on show.

1994through 2002 a new crew appears.the new crew appears till 2008

the last season of 2008 genaerations, first contact,voyager enterprise

deep space nine, are butterfly away except for the 2009 trek fim.

[Emperor Norton I]

I always thought Enterprise failed because it didn't really deliver what the fans wanted... stories of the early days of the Federation. Instead, there was the nonsense about the Temporal Cold War, the Xindi, and all that; Enterprise was the first Trek series I didn't bother to watch all the episodes. The last season of the series was actually interesting, with what was obviously the run-up to the Romulan war... but it was too little, too late...

I agree with this. ENT didn't have the problem of time. There was a lot of freedom in the era since we knew very little except the amazing things (the Romulan War and the birth of the Federation), and the ENT era being closer to our actual time should have helped people identify with it more, bringing in a new audience while maintaining the old fanbase.

But what it did was, rather than look to TOS for how it should have been, or be its own entity while keeping in mind it was going to lead into TOS, acted like TNG era-lite. Instead of Klingons and Romulans and Kzinti, oh my, we got a bit of the first two, and a whole lot of the Xindi. Who the Hell cares about the Xindi? They have never been mentioned but apparently they were a huge player in history. No one cared. We wanted more conflict with the Klingons, and eventually full blown war with Romulus. Instead of the Earth-Romulan war, we got a Xindi conflict, and a Temporal Cold War. The latter is especially heinous as it prevents the series from standing on its own and being any more than a satellite for TNG. In fact, that's what it always was. You had Ferengi and Borg, for Christ sake, and the whole timeline was treated like a predestination paradox for TNG.

ENT was just incompetent at what it was. It's stories were boring, its plot was side tracked by a Temporal cold war and Xindi crap that wasn't resolved properly and which no one cared about, and it was totally inept at doing anything Trek-cool. Was the episode "Daedalus" about the Daedalus class being built and launched, nope. It was about teleporters. The only season ENT got good was Season 4.

*****

I think the biggest problem with the Star Trek series after TNG is not that they didn't have good stories to tell, or ran out; there are always unlimited stories to be told, as the novels and comics and everything prove. Its that they were incompetent, and failed to tell them. I mean, the Star Trek series could have been "brilliant, but canceled" and canceled because people just had enough of it. But instead, people may have indeed had enough, but the quality was also lackluster which was the problem, and which is why the audience shrunk and shrunk.

[iddt3]

I agree with this. ENT didn't have the problem of time. There was a lot of freedom in the era since we knew very little except the amazing things (the Romulan War and the birth of the Federation), and the ENT era being closer to our actual time should have helped people identify with it more, bringing in a new audience while maintaining the old fanbase.

But what it did was, rather than look to TOS for how it should have been, or be its own entity while keeping in mind it was going to lead into TOS, acted like TNG era-lite. Instead of Klingons and Romulans and Kzinti, oh my, we got a bit of the first two, and a whole lot of the Xindi. Who the Hell cares about the Xindi? They have never been mentioned but apparently they were a huge player in history. No one cared. We wanted more conflict with the Klingons, and eventually full blown war with Romulus. Instead of the Earth-Romulan war, we got a Xindi conflict, and a Temporal Cold War. The latter is especially heinous as it prevents the series from standing on its own and being any more than a satellite for TNG. In fact, that's what it always was. You had Ferengi and Borg, for Christ sake, and the whole timeline was treated like a predestination paradox for TNG.

ENT was just incompetent at what it was. It's stories were boring, its plot was side tracked by a Temporal cold war and Xindi crap that wasn't resolved properly and which no one cared about, and it was totally inept at doing anything Trek-cool. Was the episode "Daedalus" about the Daedalus class being built and launched, nope. It was about teleporters. The only season ENT got good was Season 4.

*****

I think the biggest problem with the Star Trek series after TNG is not that they didn't have good stories to tell, or ran out; there are always unlimited stories to be told, as the novels and comics and everything prove. Its that they were incompetent, and failed to tell them. I mean, the Star Trek series could have been "brilliant, but canceled" and canceled because people just had enough of it. But instead, people may have indeed had enough, but the quality was also lackluster which was the problem, and which is why the audience shrunk and shrunk.
I suspect the biggest problem with Star Trek post next gen is the crippling lack of Picard. They duplicated the setting but missed the prime draw.

[The Historian]

Whatever the new ST title could be, it needs to have a Captain that would be a great draw. Too bad Nathan Fillion's doing Castle, he'd do great as a Star Trek captain. Even has the fistfight skills from Firefly.

[V-J]

I think the biggest problem with the Star Trek series after TNG is not that they didn't have good stories to tell, or ran out;

The biggest problem with Star Trek after TNG was Rick Berman.

[Emperor Norton I]

I suspect the biggest proble with Star Trek post next gen is the crippling lack of Picard. They duplicated the setting but missed the prime draw.

Star Trek can exist without Picard, just as TNG existed without Kirk.

But, it needs to have a good Captain. I was actually excited that Scott Bakula was going to be Captain, because it was basically a return to the Kirk template. We'd gone through a bald British (though said to be French) Captain, then an African-American space station Captain, and a Female Captain, and now we were going back to a Kirk kind of guy who had a multicultural crew. The stories they had, though, and their characterization at many times were not good.

[MNP]

I'm part of the faction that thinks DS9 was quite underrated. And even if it wasn't, it should get points for trying.

I would actually say that the time is ripe for a new Trek. Enterprise failed because it wasn't far enough into the future and was too bloody dreary. A post DS9 based on the Enterprise G or I built onto the post war Quadrant with a good cast and a mix of TNG & DS9 hopefulness and grit could be huge.This I agree with, and there are a number of interesting proposals out there that never got made. I'm mixed on how good Star Trek Online's portrayal of the post DS9/Voy universe is. Mainly the only thing they should keep is the sense of optimism, the positive aspects of humanity can make a better universe.

[wietze]

I'm part of the faction that thinks DS9 was quite underrated. And even if it wasn't, it should get points for trying.

the only problem was they never even got close to babylon 5 quality (which pretty much inspired it)

but then most enterprise series were rather hippie (but i guess the roddenberrys were to blame here), only showing that everything was good and nice. Never really showing the grim reality/ dark sides. of life (although ENT was a huge improvement in that respect)

[V-J]

the only problem was they never even got close to babylon 5 quality (which pretty much inspired it)

This. They were running against B5 for ratings, that was the catalyst for it going epic-political.

After DS9 the franchise slid into Bermanised conservative sterility.

[NoOneFamous]

Loved all but Enterprise. It was good but badly handled. I was really disappointed in the Borg episode.

The newest Star Trek movie sucked! I don't care if it's a fictional navy or not, no one goes from cadet to Captain in one mission.

I think the TNG cast killed the movie franchise. They should have stopped making Next Gen movies after Insurrection.

I would have loved to have seen a series based around Sulu

[tiggerfan]

Am I the only one who liked both DS9 and Voyager ?

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

Back to the topic!
TNG was not canceled! They just decided to make a movie instead, which BTW was a huge mistake. They should have made an eighth season with the destruction of the Enterprise-D either as finale or a mid-season cliff hanger (and the rest of the season would deal with the aftermath). And they should have done more crossovers with DS9. And no Voyager!

[Emperor Norton I]

Back to the topic!
TNG was not canceled! They just decided to make a movie instead, which BTW was a huge mistake. They should have made an eighth season with the destruction of the Enterprise-D either as finale or a mid-season cliff hanger (and the rest of the season would deal with the aftermath). And they should have done more crossovers with DS9. And no Voyager!

TNG was canceled.

[General_Paul]

I think one of the things that everyone's overlooked with the DS9-TNG crossover/story line mixing was the tension between Picard and Sisko. Go back and re-watch the first episode of DS9, Sisko really blames Picard for the death of his wife, Jennifer. Their relationship was pretty icy at the beginning, and only sort of warmed up after Sisko decided to stay on the station by the end of the episode.

Both Sisko and Picard were really in touch with their personal and national histories. Picard was knowledgeable about French history because of his family heritage, while Sisko was well read about the civil rights movement (See the episode in Season 7 where the holographic lounge singer's bar turned into a mob joint. Sisko complained to Dr. Bashir that no person of color would have been let into a casino like the Mirage in the early 1960s and it was unrealistic.)

I think there could be some really interesting tension to mix DS9 and TNG, especially with the command crew. Picard could get to really face what happened @ Wolf 359 from Sisko's perspective and although Picard's healing was pretty much complete by season 6, I think they could have mixed the two series together and used the Picard-Sisko tension to create a really interesting mix of the two story lines.

One of the mixed DS9-TNG plots could be a survivor of the massacre at Wolf 359 trying to take a shot at Picard, maybe he even gets close and kills some ambassador. The phaser gets tied back somehow to a weapons dealer who passed through DS9, Worf and Data end up interrogating Quark for information on the weapons dealer while Constable Odo tries to hold Worf back. Tie the assassination to some larger underground Bajoran/Maquis movement to destabilize the Federation-Bajoran relationship or instigate a Federation-Cardassian War.

I think even though TNG may have had a different feel, there could have been a real synergy between the two casts to build off.

[Some Bloke]

Maybe with the flashback finale idea, Sisko and Picard might take the first steps to a reconciliation at Court Martial (surprise witness for the defence perhaps).

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

TNG was canceled.
Sorry, but there is adifference between cancelled (something done by the studio bosses) and ended (something done by the creators/producers). TOS and ENTwere cancelled, TNG, DS9, VOY ended. There were plans for a eighth season of TNG, but they (the producers) decided against it because they believed that it was time for a TNG movie.

[Emperor Norton I]

Sorry, but there is adifference between cancelled (something done by the studio bosses) and ended (something done by the creators/producers). TOS and ENTwere cancelled, TNG, DS9, VOY ended. There were plans for a eighth season of TNG, but they (the producers) decided against it because they believed that it was time for a TNG movie.


Google.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,302144,00.html

[hairysamarian]

I don't think it was 'cancelled' in any meaningful sense, I think the plan had always been to run it for about five to seven seasons. I think it was less a cancellation and more a drawing to a natural close. How many TV series run for more than seven years?

If memory serves, the original plan was for six seasons, which was extended to seven because of popularity. And frankly, they should have stopped at six. The course had been run for TNG; that last season was characterized by too many episodes that relied on techno-babble to fill out the hour. I thought this left a stale taste on what had been a very good series.

[Talkie Toaster]

You could perhaps stretch it out longer, but it probably won't be the best. By the time series 7 ended, they had run out of ideas and most of the best writers had jumped ship to DS9. I mean, compare the average quality of Season 7 episodes with the height of Season 6 and you'll see what I mean. As much as I was sad to see it go, it really was time to move on from TNG.

[Tim Thomason]

Google.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,302144,00.html

It looks like Rick Berman was correct. It was "cancelled" (in a sense) by Paramount executives two years ahead of time (so, 1992-ish) so they could prepare for a feature film series. Obviously after the success of the TOS films (The last one - Star Trek VI - came out in December 1991).

It seems to have nothing to do with the 1993-94 Season, or even probably the 1992-93 Season, and they seemed to have given the producers and actors a heads up on their plans. I believe the producers may have created Voyager partially as a replacement, knowing TNG was to end.

DS9 was "cancelled" because of raised salaries (increasingly high one-year extensions after Season 5 and Season 6), and VOY was cancelled when Paramount was streamlining to make way for new programming (only 1 Trek show allowed - the upcoming Enterprise). All three were highly successful (TNG and DS9 - the most successful syndicated show when they ended), but mathematically there seems to be no way of balancing success with salaries after the seventh year. At least in syndication, they may have solved that dilemma on some network shows.

Again, in my book, these don't count as true cancellations, because everyone in the know realizes it's the last season before the season begins production. This wasn't the case for TOS, TAS, and Enterprise.

[MonsooN]

I always liked the idea of the Enterprise going to the Delta Quadrant instead of Voyager. This would have kept the popular cast in their roles, but thrown them into a completely new scenario.

It would also create interesting butterflies in DS9 due to the Federation Flagship disappearing, presumed destroyed.

[MNP]

the only problem was they never even got close to babylon 5 quality (which pretty much inspired it)Aspects of DS9 predate B5, it's difficult to say how much of one influenced the other. Anyhow, I used to think B5 was just better but I recently watched them again on Netflix and saw a lot more flaws in B5 in all aspects and less in DS9 than I remembered.

Nuance!

[Emperor Norton I]

Again, in my book, these don't count as true cancellations, because everyone in the know realizes it's the last season before the season begins production. This wasn't the case for TOS, TAS, and Enterprise. I don't see the need to get into semantics here. An order came from the top down saying "We're going to stop making the show this season. You can't do anything about it. We're ending the show." That's a cancellation. Whether it was forewarned or not doesn't much matter.

[Rainbow Sparkle]

I think one of the things that everyone's overlooked with the DS9-TNG crossover/story line mixing was the tension between Picard and Sisko. Go back and re-watch the first episode of DS9, Sisko really blames Picard for the death of his wife, Jennifer. Their relationship was pretty icy at the beginning, and only sort of warmed up after Sisko decided to stay on the station by the end of the episode.

Both Sisko and Picard were really in touch with their personal and national histories. Picard was knowledgeable about French history because of his family heritage, while Sisko was well read about the civil rights movement (See the episode in Season 7 where the holographic lounge singer's bar turned into a mob joint. Sisko complained to Dr. Bashir that no person of color would have been let into a casino like the Mirage in the early 1960s and it was unrealistic.)

I think there could be some really interesting tension to mix DS9 and TNG, especially with the command crew. Picard could get to really face what happened @ Wolf 359 from Sisko's perspective and although Picard's healing was pretty much complete by season 6, I think they could have mixed the two series together and used the Picard-Sisko tension to create a really interesting mix of the two story lines.

One of the mixed DS9-TNG plots could be a survivor of the massacre at Wolf 359 trying to take a shot at Picard, maybe he even gets close and kills some ambassador. The phaser gets tied back somehow to a weapons dealer who passed through DS9, Worf and Data end up interrogating Quark for information on the weapons dealer while Constable Odo tries to hold Worf back. Tie the assassination to some larger underground Bajoran/Maquis movement to destabilize the Federation-Bajoran relationship or instigate a Federation-Cardassian War.

I think even though TNG may have had a different feel, there could have been a real synergy between the two casts to build off.

This sounds like it would have been totally awesome.

To be perfectly frank, I liked Enterprise, even with the messes that were the Temporal Cold War and the fight with the Xindi. I loved all the stuff with the Vulcans and Andorians, and the fact that Klingons were villians again was cool. I thought Archer was a bit too much of a proto-kirk (to boldy screw aliens no human has screwed before) but I overall liked his general attitude towards doing things.

And hey, the Borg episode was AWESOME!! :mad: The Ferengi one could have been done better, but I defintively like the Borg one.

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

Aspects of DS9 predate B5, it's difficult to say how much of one influenced the other. Anyhow, I used to think B5 was just better but I recently watched them again on Netflix and saw a lot more flaws in B5 in all aspects and less in DS9 than I remembered.

Nuance!
JMS went to Paramount first with his idea for a show that eventually became Babylon 5, but Paramount was not interested. But it seems that they liked the idea of a show aboard a space station thus DS9 was born.

[Emperor Norton I]

I have something new to add. In TNG's last season, they made a HUGE, HUUUUUGE, HUUUUUUUUUGE dramatic mistake. In one episode, they made it known that warp travel damaged subspace where it covered. Which is wonderful to parallel global warming through car pollution, but moronic because A) Its the future. Warp drive is not fossil fuel powered. This is supposed to be the period where we've gotten beyond that. B) Warp drive is what drives Star Trek. It's how you get from place to place. This is like saying its dangerous to move/walk from one place to another because your footsteps destroy the environment and your travel at all destroys the environment.
So after this episode, and for the remainder of TNG, Starfleet slapped a warp 5 cap on travel, and going any faster required asking Starfleet for permission.

So TNG will need to deal with that. Star Trek dealt with it in the OTL by saying they'd figured out how to make sure engines didn't pollute, so it was swept under the rug as an issue. So by Voyager, they didn't need to worry about it. TNG would need to also address that. If it's not gotten rid of, it is a gigantic drag.

[MacCaulay]

I have something new to add. In TNG's last season, they made a HUGE, HUUUUUGE, HUUUUUUUUUGE dramatic mistake. In one episode, they made it known that warp travel damaged subspace where it covered. Which is wonderful to parallel global warming through car pollution, but moronic because A) Its the future. Warp drive is not fossil fuel powered. This is supposed to be the period where we've gotten beyond that. B) Warp drive is what drives Star Trek. It's how you get from place to place. This is like saying its dangerous to move/walk from one place to another because your footsteps destroy the environment and your travel at all destroys the environment.
So after this episode, and for the remainder of TNG, Starfleet slapped a warp 5 cap on travel, and going any faster required asking Starfleet for permission.

So TNG will need to deal with that. Star Trek dealt with it in the OTL by saying they'd figured out how to make sure engines didn't pollute, so it was swept under the rug as an issue. So by Voyager, they didn't need to worry about it. TNG would need to also address that. If it's not gotten rid of, it is a gigantic drag.


I gotta be honest...I'd like to see that handled as an actual issue. I think that's the kind of thing Moore would have a heyday with.

[Emperor Norton I]

I gotta be honest...I'd like to see that handled as an actual issue. I think that's the kind of thing Moore would have a heyday with.

TNG dealt with the warp 5 limit as an active issue from when that episode aired till when it ended. They had to go only at warp 5, and to go faster they would call up the admiralty to get approval.

But it was a gigantic pain and dramatic idiocy. Star Trek needs warp travel. Without it, you have hamstrung absolutely everything.

So TNG would have had to resolve it, and would likely have done son in the narrative, since TNG dealt with arcs and kept a consistent canon and didn't just ignore things once it made it an issue.

[Readman]

Yeah, I remember that. At least it was late in the series run, though.

[Fleetlord]

The biggest problem with Star Trek after TNG was Rick Berman.

This.

If I recall, DS9 was largely independent of Berman and Braga, right? And I liked DS9, though YMMV. Voyager and Enterprise were run by the same creative team that did TNG, which led to them being pale imitations of TNG. As soon as Enterprise brought in fresh blood, it got good.

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

As soon as Enterprise brought in fresh blood, it got good.But then it was too late.

[Readman]

Yeah it is a bit crummy that Manny Coto never really got a chance. :(

[pompejus]

This.

If I recall, DS9 was largely independent of Berman and Braga, right? And I liked DS9, though YMMV. Voyager and Enterprise were run by the same creative team that did TNG, which led to them being pale imitations of TNG. As soon as Enterprise brought in fresh blood, it got good.
I don't know. I heard that a very large part of post-Roddenberry Star Trek was basicly Berman's idea, including the good seasons of TNG (and thus DS9). Berman had good ideas and the same is true about Braga. The problem probably is that they gave both too much unchecked influence. Replacing them after a couple of years would have been a good idea too. Many Coto's Enterprise was good. Maybe still not as good TNG or DS9, but it had potential. If they would have used his ideas in Enterprise from the start, Enterprise could have been a great series.

Actualy I think one of the big problems for Voyager and Enterprise, was the network. It was the network that wanted to get rid of star trek as they wanted to focus on a different focusgroup who had no/less interest in series like startrek. Certainly it meant the end of Enterprise. I heard that the only reason Enterprise got a 4th season was for syndication and Enterprise was basicly cancelled during season 3.

[Swan Station]

TNG dealt with the warp 5 limit as an active issue from when that episode aired till when it ended. They had to go only at warp 5, and to go faster they would call up the admiralty to get approval.

But it was a gigantic pain and dramatic idiocy. Star Trek needs warp travel. Without it, you have hamstrung absolutely everything.

So TNG would have had to resolve it, and would likely have done son in the narrative, since TNG dealt with arcs and kept a consistent canon and didn't just ignore things once it made it an issue.

Contrarily, I think this would have been a good thing to have from even earlier on. Limits are what make dramatic situations in stories possible. Probably a quarter of the plots of TOS were enhanced at least a little with the tension of the fact that the ship could only travel so fast without breaking up. (Although, in a pinch Scotty could change the laws of physics and make it go faster) With a more "artificial" limit, it's not just the ship breaking up, but the whole staff risking legal issues.

Riker constantly wants to keep following the limits, but Picard is willing to nudge the limits whenever he deems it necessary (which turns out to be quite often). Meanwhile, Geordi would be constantly looking for ways to fix the warp pollution problem so they can go faster, but a newly promoted O'Brien as Geordi's second-in-command is constantly forgetting/ignoring the limits because he disagrees with them. And then, of course, there's the issue of chasing down a Romulan Warbird which has just kidnapped the President of Somewhereouttheria IV, and having to wait until the phone call comes back from the admiral in order to get going... and the repercussions when the Romulans get away and Picard aims a monologue at the admiralty for not streamlining the process.

Sure, after a while it could become a "thing" which eventually gets overdone, but not if they do it right...