A Presidency Salvaged, and a drink too much

[jerseyrules]

I know this should be in Before 1900 but I originally intended on the POD being later. So this is my first attempt at a TL on this site (and any full-length TL) so after much research, I hope you enjoy it. :D The style I am using was inspired by Han's used in both versions of his President Goldwater TLs.

4-5-1893: "I really don't think these tariff talks are accomplishing much. I'll need to reach out across the aisle and out to the American people if I want any hope of having this tariff reduction passed. And I'll be damned if those Silverites and Republicans in the Senate stop me..."

- The Grover Cleveland Diaries

4-16-1893: "I've done it! I don't know how, but the senate passed my tariff reduction 52-38. I had to twist a lot of arms and I was able to convince all the Democrats in the senate to pass the bill, and convinced the Populists that it would help the common man and farmer by creating competition for big businesses here at home. Passing it in the house was easy, but to get those northeastern Republicans I had to haul President Arthur out of retirement and put him on the stump for my bill. It reduces tariffs to a rate of 39% but for all industries, and does not give unfair benefits to any particular industry. This obviously encouraged business; today there was a great bump in the stock prices, and the economy's looking better than ever. It's funny, people are already suggesting I run again in 1896..."

[jerseyrules]

5-12-1893: President Cleveland adresses Congress:
"We must repeal this destructive legislation! It [thunderous cheers and scattered boos] is an abomination to the American people! THE SHERMAN SILVER PURCHASE ACT MUST GO!"

Shortly afterwards, freshman William Lyne Wilson (D-WV) comes charging through the door to Cleveland's office after speaking with Speaker Crisp:

"Mr. President! Mr. President! [panting] We have the numbers to do it sir!"

"Well get going then Bill!"

"Right away Mr. President, but we have to do something about Bryan."

"Forget Bryan! That pathetic excuse for a Democrat isn't worthy of our time and energy."

"Yes Mr. President..."

6-23-1893: Speaker Crisp: "We have an ally in William McKinley; though he's ardent protectionist and has opposed this administration from the getgo, but he could help us rally enough Gold and midwestern Republicans to help us get rid of this monstrosity. But we have to make sure it appeals to both factions - "

Charles Brackett Reed: "But nothing. I'll strip every one of my silverites of all their committee memberships and with them any hope of higher office if they so much as think about blocking this bill. I'll whip all of my men into line and I suggest that you do the same, or when the economy implodes your party will be decimated with it in the midterms."

Pres. Pro Tem. Charles Manderson: "We have to make sure that this does not tear our parties apart at the seams. Otherwise we might have to face a strengthened populist-silver party next year, and then we'll risk permanently alienating the American people from the Gold Standard and true American values forever."

Cleveland: "Well thank you gentleman for coming today, and I greatly appreciate this united effort. Would anyone care for a drink?"

[jerseyrules]

8-07-1893: "We have restored America's gold reserves to safe levels again. President Harrison was admirable but a disaster for America. That was greater than I could have hoped for; the House was winnable from the start but I am astonished that we were able to obtain 53 votes in the senate! My agenda has been ushered through Congress easily so far, I can only hope that it continues to do so."

- The Grover Cleveland Diaries

08-12-1893: "I have asked Dr. O'Reilly about the recent pain in my mouth, which he said is caused by a tumor. I will underwent an secret operation to remove the tumor (so as not to slow the advancement of the economy), and I now feel much better and am more able to carry out my daily duties. I hope that this will not fade along with the painkillers..."

- The Grover Cleveland Diaries

11-09-1893: "I have recommended to the Senate that action be taken regarding Hawaii. The Republican government there is in favor of annexation, and as such I believe that annexation should remain an option provided it be passed by both our governments, and as such possible war with the Queen's loyalists must be considered as a consequence of such actions. For now we shall send aid to the republican government"

[jerseyrules]

11-22-1893: The Queen has attacked several of our supply ships bound for Hawaii. I asked Congress for a Declaration of War, and have as such received it. A military detachment is currently en route to aid the Republican government.

12-24-1893: American ships land at Hawaii, including the USS Maine, carrying several hundred American soldiers, as well as plenty of artillery. As night falls on Christmas Eve, American and pro-Republic troops, led by Sanford B. Dole, storm Queen Liliʻuokalani's palace, and after several hours of fighting, the Queen surrenders. There are minimal casualties on both sides, however Sanford Dole has been catapulted into national prominence, becoming a household name for many Americans.

1-4-1894: After establishing Hawaii as an American Protectorate, a newly called Committee of Safety formalizes Hawaii as an American territory; afterwards Cleveland bestows upon Dole the Medal of Honor, and names him Governor of Hawaii. Spain, however, was greatly opposed to this move, as they did "refused to warrant this aggressive American Imperialism." This is believed to have been due to the new pro-democratic rebellions that have sprung up in the Philippines, Cuba, and Mexico.

1-23-1894: The USS Maine is sunk by Spanish sabatuers while returning to the United States. This leads newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst to proclaim, alongside Governor Roosevelt, "This despicable act has more than warranted a declaration of war against these Spanish cowards! These were innocent men, going about their business when suddenly they were brutally murdered! I surely hope President Cleveland understands this!" Governor Roosevelt declairs, "We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. Our policy is to wage war, by sea, land, and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be."

1-28-1894: President Cleveland asks Congress for a formal declaration of War against Spain, declaring "This terrible act of aggression will prove to be a day which will live in infamy!" It passes unanimously, largely due to public pressure by the American people drummed up by Hearst and Roosevelt. When asked to comment, Roosevelt mutters "Took him long enough," while Hearst replies, "This is not the only war we should worry about; Mexico's licking their chops peering over the border at our strained military as imperialism is rearing its head in Latin America." The governor announces his leave of absence due to his enlistment in the United States Armed Forces. He begins as a corporal.

[jerseyrules]

Comments so far? This will be a moderately wankish TL but nothing too extreme :p

[jerseyrules]

2-3-1894: Contingents of the American Fleet arrive in Cuba, Puerto Rico, Hispaniola, Grenada, and the Bahamas. Within the week, ships will arrive in the Philippines. President Cleveland declares via telegram a single sentence, "Fire when ready, and win one for the Grover." The Spanish are waiting for them, but are severely outnumbered as the natives join the Americans.

2-6-1894: "We always knew we would win, I suppose. But the thrill of battle, the sheer joy of gunning down several military equals all at once, OH BULLY! It was a splendid little war..."

- Bully: My Life in Politics and Other Places by Theodore Roosevelt

2-11-1894: "I knew the moment I heard they sunk the Maine that I was permanently transformed from into a wartime president..."

- The Grover Cleveland Diaries

[jerseyrules]

"I believe that when President Cleveland was right when he declared that the chief business of the American people is business. That is why I stand humbly before you, asking for your vote in November. I seek to continue the prosperity that the Kennedy administration has bestowed upon us, and to remind you that we must prevail in the name of all that is righteous! Need I remind you that we stand at Armageddon, and we do battle for the Lord!"

- Senator Barry Goldwater to the Democratic National Convention. This is widely considered to be the greatest speech of his career. He is flanked by his son, Senator Barry Goldwater Jr. of California, Senator James Buckley and his brother Governor William Buckley, both Conservatives from New York, Senate Majority Leader Lyndon Johnson of Texas, and Speaker of the House Gerald R. Ford of Michigan

[jerseyrules]

2-16-1894: "I understand these trusts are growing quickly, but with more tariff reductions there will be enough foreign competition so that we don't need to break them up. This may sound extreme to some, but may I remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, and that moderation in the name of justice is no virtue!"

- Colonel and Former Governor Roosevelt's telegram to his successor, Lt. Gov. Charles E. Hughes of New York

[glenn67]

"I believe that when President Cleveland was right when he declared that the chief business of the American people is business. That is why I stand humbly before you, asking for your vote in November. I seek to continue the prosperity that the Kennedy administration has bestowed upon us, and to remind you that we must prevail in the name of all that is righteous! Need I remind you that we stand at Armageddon, and we do battle for the Lord!"

- Senator Barry Goldwater to the Democratic National Convention. This is widely considered to be the greatest speech of his career. He is flanked by his son, Senator Barry Goldwater Jr. of California, Senator James Buckley and his brother Governor William Buckley, both Conservatives from New York, Senate Majority Leader Lyndon Johnson of Texas, and Speaker of the House Gerald R. Ford of Michigan

Barry Goldwater and Gerald Ford in the Democratic Party? Looking forward to this TL.

[Cathcon1]

Dude. This is awesome beyond belief. This is just friggin' great, that's what this is. I'd love to see this go on. Please let Barry win Kennedy another term! And let the Buckleys dominate NY politics forevermore!

Merely one quibble. How is TR governor in 1894?

[jerseyrules]

Dude. This is awesome beyond belief. This is just friggin' great, that's what this is. I'd love to see this go on. Please let Barry win Kennedy another term! And let the Buckleys dominate NY politics forevermore!

Merely one quibble. How is TR governor in 1894?

You'll see a lot of Barry and the Buckleys trust me. Anyone you want to know about right now? I need TR well-known enough for 1900 so i just bumped him up a couple years in order to avoid any plot holes. You will see a lot of Teddy. Btw that means a lot coming from the author of One of my favorite TLs :)

[jerseyrules]

2-27-1894: The Battle of Havana begins, with Col. Roosevelt leading the assault under Leonoard Wood. The battle is over quickly as the Cuban Loyalists quickly realize they are hoplessly outmatched; their surrender is hastened by a message being sent out that Col. Roosevelt has captured General Alberto Herrera. What many of the Cubans didn't know is that Roosevelt sent out the message himself...

3-11-1894: "It's an honor to meet you Mr. President."
"Likewise Colonel. I'm gonna be straight with you; you've got the biggest balls I've ever seen, which is why I want to make you a general."
"It's a very generous offer that I'm going to have to pass up sir. I want to fight on the ground with the common man and feel the rush of battle, plus I've got a lot of fight left in me and I don't want to hide behind a desk. I also want to kill as many of those bastards as possible, for the same reason I sent out that telegram: I want those cowards to know my name and fear it so they're ready when I become president in 1900."
"You won't refuse the Medal of Honor too..?"
"No I don't think so but I would recommend Wood for a promotion and the Medal as well. He's a great man, and I trust him with my life."
"Already done Col."

As both men continue to talk, they will develop a very intimate lifelong friendship, and though Cleveland is a democrat, he would be glad to have TR as his successor, and would likely vote for him. Roosevelt said he had no plans to run in 1900 and encouraged Cleveland to run again in 1896. Cleveland, who had intended on retiring, begins to give a fourth run some more thought...

[B]3-26-1894: President Cleveland: "Those damned ships were supposed to arrive hours ago, what's taking you so long!!"
Col. Theodore Roosevelt via telegram: "We're gonna need a bigger boat...those damned yellow cowards sunk 2 of ours and we had to stop in Hawaii for some repairs and a new ship, but we land in Manilla in a few hours, and we attack at dusk. Also, they got the Commodore, so we need a new C.O."
"Alright Teddy you're in charge."
"Yessir."
To recruit: "Alright Cordell, you're a Colonel now; prep for battle."
"If I can have one request sir..."
"Spit it out dammit!"
"I want Mac in my squad."
"Done."

Three hours pass....

Mac: "He's down!"
Teddy: "Well he's the one who's supposed to be carrying the flag!"
Mac: "[to other men] Hold the line!" [picks up flag; many soldiers are fleeing the battle].
HOLD THE LINE!
HOLD THE LINE!
All the men turn to hear this young man's newly found deep and booming voice; he was already a charismatic figure, fourteen years old and already smoked a corncob pipe. He had falsified his birth in order to attend West Point (after dropping out of Jr. High school) and then again to enter the military in time for the war. The men stopped retreating, and all listened to what he had to say:

"You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We can go forward from here and crusade for our precious freedom, or flee, opting instead to descend into a thousand years of darkness. Whichever you choose, remember this: America the last best hope of man on this Earth. But by all means, if you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen!"

Col. Roosevelt tears up at his impromptu speech, and proclaims "By God we are going to stay in the fucking kitchen! No weapon can destroy America! BY THE GRACE OF GOD WE SHALL LEAVE HEAR BEARING THE FLAG OF VICTORY FOR WE ARE AMERICANS!"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"This battle is much more significant than the one at Havana due to it marking overcoming great odds, being outmanned, outgunned, outflanked and outmaneuverered by a five-to-one margin. What we hadn't counted on was the Philipino Patriots. They were magnificent. Nevertheless, it was still a suicide mission. That is, until Col. Roosevelt arrived"

- A Soldier's Life by Douglas MacArthur

[jerseyrules]

Barry Goldwater and Gerald Ford in the Democratic Party? Looking forward to this TL.

Yep because of Cleveland's influence on the Democratic Party, and the suprise I'm going to pull later on, the dems will be more conservative (the most part) ;)

[jerseyrules]

8-11-1980: House Minority Leader Dick Cheney (R-WY) to democratic national convention:
"What does [redacted] expect us to defend our nation with anyway, spitballs? That's why I have come to your convention, to offer my proud endorsement of [redacted] where you have welcomed me with open arms. The louder and louder calls for greater spending from tax-and-spend Republicans and more debt have forced my hand. And the two biggest offenders there are the two Wisconsin Republicans, Herb Kohl and [redacted]!"[cheers]

[jerseyrules]

5-08-1894: The final battle of the Spanish-American War, The Battle of Jakarta; the Spanish have been pushed back, all of their colonial empire taken by the Americans, who were welcomed by the natives with open arms. It seems that many Europeans have teamed up against the Americans, as the Dutch and Danes and kiss the asses of the Spaniards, hoping to be rewarded for defending Spain by receiving some territory they hope to help save. However, after three months of war their prospects appear to have been in vain, and even have resulted in the once-mighty European nations losing ground. The battles have been noteworthy only in the new lands they have gained for America, including Greenland, Iceland, the Phillipines, Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Bahamas. They have also taken MacArthur and Roosevelt around the world, and earned Big Mac his Sergeant's stripes.

The Battle of Jakarta began as many others during the war: the ships unloaded soldiers who burst forward, and this one had the now-famous Theodore Roosevelt and Douglas MacArthur leading their now-expert Battalion of troops into battle. The Rough Riders, as they had been dubbed, lie in wait as they prepared for assault. They had rounded up natives throughout their adventures who were loyal to the United States, and enveloped them into the now Big Tent that was the rough riders

I will update this later to add more info

[Color-Copycat]

Lol, I clicked on this at first thinking it was going to be a thread about Boris Yeltsin.

[Cathcon1]

You do like your pop culture references, don't you?

[naraht]

The Bahamas are part of the British Empire and going to war with the British in the 1890s is an order of Magnitude uglier than fighting the Spanish, the Danes and the Dutch combined. Yes, the United States will *probably* win, but there *has* to be a reason for fighting our largest trading partner...

[jerseyrules]

5-08-1894: The final battle of the Spanish-American War, The Battle of Jakarta; the Spanish have been pushed back, all of their colonial empire taken by the Americans, who were welcomed by the natives with open arms. It seems that many Europeans have teamed up against the Americans, as the Dutch and Danes and kiss the asses of the Spaniards, hoping to be rewarded for defending Spain by receiving some territory they hope to help save. However, after three months of war their prospects appear to have been in vain, and even have resulted in the once-mighty European nations losing ground. The battles have been noteworthy only in the new lands they have gained for America, including Greenland, Iceland, the Phillipines, Cuba, and Puerto Rico. They have also taken MacArthur and Roosevelt around the world, and earned Big Mac his Sergeant's stripes.

The Battle of Jakarta began as many others during the war: the ships unloaded soldiers who burst forward, and this one had the now-famous Theodore Roosevelt and Douglas MacArthur leading their now-expert Battalion of troops into battle. The Rough Riders, as they had been dubbed, lie in wait as they prepared for assault. They had rounded up natives throughout their adventures who were loyal to the United States, and enveloped them into the now Big Tent that was now the rough riders. In addition, like in many other nations they had fought in, there were many native Indonesians who attempted to join them. Several did, but they were blocked from actively recruiting them due to a massive fine placed on anyone caught aiding or themselves being a native recruiter. Of course in practice this meant that anyone suspected of being pro-American would be locked up or killed by the Royalists.

Teddy: "Are your guys ready?"
Mac: "Yes."
Teddy: "More importantly, are you ready?"
"Yessir..."
"Then let the games begin"
[lights pipe]"lets do this"

"As we leapt willingly into battle that day, we didn't know the outcome, but of this we were sure: For better or for worse, this would be the beginning of the end." - Lt. Col. Cordell Hull

[jerseyrules]

The Bahamas are part of the British Empire and going to war with the British in the 1890s is an order of Magnitude uglier than fighting the Spanish, the Danes and the Dutch combined. Yes, the United States will *probably* win, but there *has* to be a reason for fighting our largest trading partner...

Fixed. ;)

[jerseyrules]

You do like your pop culture references, don't you?

Yes. Yes I do ;)

[jerseyrules]

The Spanish-American War also had many Europeans coming to aid the Americans: seeing how gallantly the Americans fought against their old rivals, Britain decided to step in on the side of the U.S., granting them aid in the form of ships and soldiers, though they were officially neutral in the conflict. Germany, however, due to Von Bismark's [1] influence, has stepped in on the American side with full support due to a perception that they would need to become allies with the rising star of the great world powers, America.

"The battle that day had begun like many others: we snuck into their quarters, gutted the officers like fish and watched as all the underlings ran around like headless chickens. However, when we saw them all marching down the hill, we stared gaping as all the soldiers charged down the hill, guns poised. No of course the battle wasn't yet over, but we knew we would face a very messy clean-up job as we marched onward to victory. We did win the battle, but at great cost: a dear friend of mine named Kertosudiro [2], a young Indonesian man who had volunteered as a Rough a Rough Rider, had died in the battle. At the end of it all, Indonesia was granted it's independence, and became a full protectorate of the United States. President Cleveland named a young man, William Howard Taft, to oversee the cleanup."

- Bully: My life in Politics and Elsewhere by Theodore Roosevelt

[1] Yes, the Iron Man is still commanding the German ship of state; I made Wilhelm II smart ITTL :p :eek:

[2] Sukarno's father; I couldn't find his surname

[jerseyrules]

Lol, I clicked on this at first thinking it was going to be a thread about Boris Yeltsin.

Haha no amount of liquor can even make you think of a way to salvage that presidency :D;)

[DanMcCollum]

Haha no amount of liquor can even make you think of a way to salvage that presidency :D;)

Reminds me of an olf politicla cartoon I saw back in the 90s while still in High School. It showed Boris Yeltsen, drunk, and mumbling "So much vodka, but the glass is so, so, small" :)

[usertron2020]

Fixed. ;)

Better to not do so. An Anglo-US War TL is sure to bring lots of interest from a certain someone.:)

[achilles483]

I'm loving this timeline! Looking forward to seeing where it takes us.

[jerseyrules]

Reminds me of an olf politicla cartoon I saw back in the 90s while still in High School. It showed Boris Yeltsen, drunk, and mumbling "So much vodka, but the glass is so, so, small" :)

Lol I hit my wall I was Lulzing so hard when I read this :D

[jerseyrules]

Better to not do so. An Anglo-US War TL is sure to bring lots of interest from a certain someone.:)

Oh England will be very important trust me ;)

[jerseyrules]

8-12-1894: "President Cleveland showed he was both a charismatic wartime president and a powerful and influential peacetime president. This Spanish-American War was crucial to the American public. It made us the United States again. It helped to get America to become well-recognized by the international community and really pioneered this idea of American Exceptionalism. I will have some great shoes to fill here at the War department yet I hope to be able to get things straightened out. There is no question there are some much-needed reforms that I would be happy to push through with the president's blessing. Does anyone have any questions?"

- newly-appointed Secretary of War Theodore Roosevelt.

[MrHuman]

I'd just like to say that this is a really good TL.

[jerseyrules]

8-27-1894: SoW Roosevelt to a joint session of Congress: "There is no question that the intense bureaucracy that we find on capital hill needs drastic reform. This is why I propose abolishing the Department of Navy and placing it directly under the command of the Secretary of War. Furthermore, we must make sure that each cabinet member and congressman is only allotted a maximum staff of 5 people. My staff is myself and my dog [laughter]. But in all seriousness we must combat kingmakers and bureaucrats on capital hill. Thank you for your time Mr. President of the Senate, Mr. Speaker; I hope you can heard these sheep into my corner on this one [cheers and laughter]"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The president had made one of his greatest friends his saber-rattler on policy. Much more charismatic than Cleveland, he was very similar to president on the issues though they were of different political parties. President Cleveland had been grooming Roosevelt as his successor for some time now, and Teddy was gaining a lot of publicity from the GOP."

- The Politics of American History, by James Buckley

[jerseyrules]

9-10-1894: "You wanted to see me sir?"
"As a matter of fact I did. Well, you know the midterms are coming up and I was wondering if you had any problem with doing a little barnstorming for me?"
"Well sir, you know I'm a Republican..."
"I know, I'm asking you to campaign for Republicans."
The young secretary was obviously puzzled, so the president elaborated:
"Well I've been thinking. I have more in common with some Republicans than the Democrats. I was going to ask you to go and campaign for conservative Republicans throughout the country, and there is some talk of New York establishing a Conservative Party-"
"Sure Mr. President, I'd be happy to. But I'm not going to allow there to be a party that splits the GOP vote in my state, especially when my close friend is running for governor as a Republican there. But otherwise consider it done."
"Thanks a lot Teddy, it really means a lot to me."

[jerseyrules]

I'd just like to say that this is a really good TL.

Thanks. :) Guys I really appreciate your comments and feedback so far so thanks :)

[jerseyrules]

10-07-1894: "In order to fill the post of Solicitor General, I nominate a man whose courage and valiant pursuit of freedom during the Spanish-American War make him a true hero: John W. Davis!"

The Solictor General-designate, who has always been a quiet and withdrawn man, tears up at this speech on his behalf. He will be the youngest cabinet member ever at age 21, and was recommended by Theodore Roosevelt, who was his commanding officer during the war. This is but the next short step into his career in law and federal judiciary...president Cleveland has big plans for him....

[jerseyrules]

"There was a great cabinet Re-organization following the War. I assume it was for the better; Cleveland's men were old and tired; they were all relatively useless; Cleveland was now focusing on the rising stars of Conservatism... All things said and done, Davis' career ended up turning out similar to mine..."

- Fit as a Bull Moose: The Life and Times of Theodore Roosevelt by James L. Buckley

[jerseyrules]

Shameless bump. I will have an update later this evening

[jerseyrules]

"When Melville Fuller died, many were shocked; he had just been appointed chief justice by President Cleveland, and was praised by conservatives from both parties. Many were shocked by President Cleveland's nominee: his Solicitor General John W. Davis. He was only 24 and had only served as Solicitor General for 6 weeks. But with loyal Secretary Roosevelt strumming up support in the senate, he was confirmed by the closest margin ever for a successful court nomination, the tie-breaking vote of Vice President Stevenson was still required, even with the help of 14 of the GOP senators, and of course, it wouldn't have been possible without Secretary Roosevelt. No one was quite sure why the president hadn't chosen someone with more experience..."

- Fit as a Bull Moose: the Life and Times of Theodore Roosevelt by James L. Buckley


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/JWDavis.jpg/220px-JWDavis.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JWDavis.jpg)

Chief Justice John W. Davis after his senate confirmation hearing

"The midterms were a wash. While the GOP gained forty house seats and 4 senate seats, they were almost exclusively conservatives, mostly from the northeast, the result of young Secretary Roosevelt's barnstorming throughout his own state. He was clearly the frontrunner for the 1896 nomination, though he would quickly disavow all interest in campainging that year, claiming his ultimate goal at that time was to serve the people outside of the limelight, and he had his eye on the New York senate seat up that year, which he received as soon as the New York legislature reconvened for the 1895 session. He was climbing the ladder quickly, and was increasingly Cleveland's fiercest advocate in the Senate. Due to his aggressive leadership role and equally aggressive campaigning, the silverite movement was drawing to a close, to the appreciation of the Cleveland administration. He herded his party into line with the administration's policies, and made sure any dissenting populist was stripped of all committee assignments and credibility; in fact, he was almost the de facto first senate majority leader. Yet his greatest achievement in the senate was yet to come..."

- Fit as a Bull Moose: The Life and Times of Theodore Roosevelt by James L. Buckley

[jerseyrules]

2-15-1895: "Mexico is rearing the ugly head of imperialism again. I really didn't think I'd live to see two Mexican-American Wars in my lifetime, but it's really becoming increasingly clear that something needs to be done. Now the government has even declared that they wish to wipe the United States off the map, and we need to do something to stop them."
"Well, Mr. President, I really think we need to-"
"Excuse me, Mr. President?"
"Yes?"
"It's the Mexicans sir. They've just intercepted seven of our ships bound for Cuba."
"God dammit! Teddy, it's time to beat the war drum again."
"I'll get right on it, Mr. President..."

3-22-1895: The United States was feeling good about itself. We had just beat the Spaniards, Dutch, and Danish, once thought to be great powers in the world, and taken all their overseas colonies in a matter of months. The new nation was flexing its muscles, ready for a new challenge, someone else to humiliate on the international stage. With Senator Theodore Roosevelt and President Cleveland beating the drum of patriotism, war was looking increasingly likely. With newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst strumming up popular opinion in favor of the looming war and new Secretary of War Cordell Hull working behind the scenes, lining up all the new toys that Teddy had put in the nation's arsenal during his tenure, the nation was ready for war. Popular opinion could not be contained any longer, as was the President's plan. That night, Congress passed a near-unanimous Declaration of War on Mexico for violation of the United States' popular sovereignty, very remenicent of the War of 1812. It is also suspected that many European nations have been silently backing Mexico, such as the recently-defeated Denmark and Holland. President Cleveland declared that we must combat "this Evil Empire which threatens our very way of life."

3-25-1895: "Isn't it wonderful sir? I can't believe we've got a chance like this! TWO wars in one year, and I'm confident we'll win this one too." The young senator is giddy with excitement, though he is dismayed that the President dissuaded him from joining the military again.
"Well this time we'll do it right. We'll take back everything that we should have taken. We'll charge into Mexico City with guns blazing, and take every scrap of land they've got. Then, South America is another story; those Columbians are really beginning to piss me off too."
The two men continued talking, becoming giddy children in a candy store as they imagined future conquests, until finally the President finally caught himself and said "But we mustn't get ahead of ourselves. We have to first focus on this excursion and make sure that the public remains in line with us.."
"Oh, with Hearst behind the scenes and all the others, you'll be fine. Everyone sees this face [points to himself] and instantly falls in love with everything that emerges from it. I'll be out there fighting for you every step of the way."
"You know I really appreciate that Teddy. Scotch and a cigar?"
"Of course."
"You know, Cordell Hull is certainly no Teddy Roosevelt, but he does his job well, and it's probably better to have you in the senate anyway."
"Yes, I honestly feel more at home there. But you know, that new senator from Vermont...what's his name...?"
"Coolidge?"
"Yeah. He's an old fucker, but he's definitely a great campaigner. He won the GOP supermajorities in both houses of the state legislature, and his son's a member of the Massachussets legislature too. His son's really where the future of the party lies. Both of 'em are quiet, very well-mannered. [takes a drag on cigar] Neither of them have ever mentioned their opponents in their speeches. It would drive me mad to spend a day without being the jackass I normally am, but I think he would be a good fresh face to run for governor or something in a couple years."
"Really?"
"Sure. He's even got a son of his own too-"
"Let's not get ahead of ourselves."
"But seriously, I really think either one of 'em would be great as a running mate for me in 1900. By the way, Grove, have you given any more thought on another run in 96?"
"Yeah, I think I'm gonna go for it."
"Good for you! You'll have my full support - behind the scenes of course."
"Splendid! [sips scotch] I think I'd be able to back you fully in 1900; I won't have to worry about re-election, or renomination. That'll be a thrill to get all this weight off my shoulders. I don't know how much more I can take; I'm going absolutely crazy!"
"Well, Grove, retirement will come easy after running and not running for sixteen years."
"Yeah...I think I'll miss it though...."


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/Hull-Cordell-LOC.jpg/220px-Hull-Cordell-LOC.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hull-Cordell-LOC.jpg)

Cordell Hull, new Secretary of War

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/President_Theodore_Roosevelt%2C_1904.jpg/220px-President_Theodore_Roosevelt%2C_1904.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:President_Theodore_Roosevelt,_1904.jpg)

Theodore Roosevelt, Junior Senator from New York

OOC: This last part was just a few hints and fluff, this is obviously based on Boston Legal :).

A preview:

[B]8-21-1912: A young man, Adolf Hitler, graduates from art class. He becomes a semi-famous artist, and is also known for being a Lutheran minister on Sundays, who uses the Bully Pulpit of the church to crusade for an Israeli homeland with full statehood. Many Jews in Germany love him for this, and encourage him to run for office, however he denies any interest in politics

[jerseyrules]

No comments, questions, etc.?

[jerseyrules]

3-17-1895: "America and Mexico sat unsettled, poised to retaliate; for several days no one dared make the first move. It turns out we struck first. This would spark a long and arduous battle against another aggressor. But we were prepared"

- Newly-promoted Col. Douglas MacArthur

3-19-1895: "We've landed. War Secretary Cordell Hull has informed us on his strategy: hit them where it hurts, and make it sting for a long time. Land troops are creating a diversion near Chihuahua and Coahuila, as well as Baja California; we are trying to get them to send their toops northward, leaving the jugular wide open: Mexico City. An elite, specialized task force has been sent there to deliver that blow: The Rough Riders. We've received new men from other companies, such as Sgt. Hiram Johnson of California. It seems as though this will be quick and painful for the Mexicans, with many of their own fighting against the brutal dictatorship of "President" Diaz. I only wish Teddy could have been here..."

- The Douglas MacArthur Diaries

[jerseyrules]

3-22-1895: The president had just come back from a night of drinking with his good friend, Senator Teddy Roosevelt. He proudly bellowed, struggling to find balance: "Hey all you media jackasses! I think I can take four more years of all your crap! I'm running for re-election next year!" This came as a shock to many, which promted his angry response "I don't give a flying fuck what all you bitches think! Stop pissing me off! I'm the president dammit! You're fired!"

When pressed for a response, Senator Roosevelt replied "I believe it is time someone broke this foolish tradition; the common man's agreement or disagreement will be noted by the ballot he casts next November. I will not be a candidate for the 1896 election."

3-25-1895: The United States military captures Mexico City. The United States begins to draw up a "treaty" which will be rubber-stamped by what's left of the Mexican government. President Diaz will be hanged in the city streets, and the United States shall receive Baja California and all states above the Yucatan; the rest of Mexico will be purchased for $2 million. Douglas MacArthur and Hiram Johnson receive the Medal of Honor for their prowess throughout the battle. Mac will be promoted to Brigadier General and Johnson will become a Colonel. The war is seen as a great victory for America and a repudiation of aggression in the Western Hemisphere. America becomes the poster boy of Europe, with many currencies flowing into the U.S. treasury; over 1/2 of these funds are German marks, curtesy of Von Bismark.

[jerseyrules]

3-26-1895: The United States finalizes the peace treaty with Mexico. The United States orders a shutdown of the Mexican government. Teddy Roosevelt gleefully tells President Cleveland "Now onto Panama; we'll build a canal through and create an international hub; we'll take them over easily." President Cleveland, however, uses political captial from the war to negotiate purchase of Panama with Columbia for $1 million. Construction on the canal will begin immediately.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Mexico%27s_Territorial_Evolution.png/659px-Mexico%27s_Territorial_Evolution.png (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Mexico%27s_Territorial_Evolution.png)

Map of Mexico as it is now; President Cleveland assigns Senator Roosevelt and Sec. War Cordell Hull to divide the new states gained from Mexico into larger states by merging current ones, feeling that "it just looks odd as it is currently divided."

5-21-1895: The new map of Mexico, as drawn up by Roosevelt contains 10 states: a unified Baja California, a unified Sinoloa, Durango, Signora and Chihuahua called Chihuahua, Coahuila and Zacatecas combined with all the states east of them, called Coahuila, all the western border states from Nayarit to Oxaca combined named Costa Hermosa, Unified Yucatan Peninsula called Yucatan, Guatemala and Belize united, called Guatemala, Chapas and Tobasco unified named Chapas, Hondoras and El Salvador combined, called Honduras, Nicaragua, and Costa Rica

OOC: sorry about that previous post; Paint's being a b*tch to me

[Cathcon1]

Bumpity-Bump!

[jerseyrules]

12-14-1895: President Cleveland appoints John F. Fitzgerald Ambassador to Japan.

04-12-1895: Cleveland appoints Speaker William McKinley, widely considered to be front runner for the GOP nomination, to the Supreme Court.

06-16-1895: Speaker Thomas Bracket Reed is nominated for president on the fifth ballot. Although many conservatives supported him for the nomination, they are now finding a home with President Cleveland for the general election... He picks Garett Hobart as his running mate.

07-07-1896: President Cleveland is renominated for president on the first ballot; his only hurdle was getting past the mutiny staged by the silverite William Jennings Bryan. He picks Judge Alton B. Parker as his running mate, and by officially switching his residency to Washington, D. C., he clears any possible controversy over his veep's home state.

11-03-1896: President Cleveland is re-elected by a comfortable margin, largely due to a good economy, as well as public approval being largely on the President's side.

President Grover Cleveland (D-D.C.) / Judge Alton B. Parker (D-NY): 52.3% PV; 267 EV
Speaker Thomas Brackett Reed (R-ME) / Rep. Garret Hobart (R-NJ): 47.5% PV; 180 EV

http://uselectionatlas.org/TOOLS/genusmap.php?year=1896&pv_p=0&ev_p=1&AL=1;11;6&AR=1;8;7&CA=1;9;4&CO=1;4;8&CT=2;6;6&DE=1;3;5&FL=1;4;7&GA=1;13;5&ID=1;3;7&IL=2;24;5&IN=2;15;5&IA=2;13;5&KS=1;10;5&KY=1;13;4&LA=1;8;7&ME=2;6;6&MD=1;8;5&MA=2;15;6&MI=1;14;5&MN=2;9;5&MS=1;9;9&MO=1;17;5&MT=1;3;7&NE=1;8;5&NV=1;3;8&NH=2;4;6&NJ=2;10;5&NY=1;36;5&NC=1;11;5&ND=2;3;5&OH=2;23;5&OR=1;4;5&PA=2;32;6&RI=2;4;6&SC=1;9;8&SD=1;4;4&TN=1;12;5&TX=1;15;6&UT=1;3;8&VT=2;4;8&VA=1;12;5&WA=1;4;5&WV=1;6;5&WI=2;12;5&WY=1;3;5

The Democrats will also make several pickups in both houses of congress and take back the house, but the Congress will remain under GOP control.

[HumanityDark]

Great TL so far! Please keep it coming. :D

[jerseyrules]

02-17-1897:
Senator Roosevelt sponsors a further tariff cut, whipping many freshman senators into line; most Democrats vote for it as well, so it will easily come to the President Cleveland's desk, where he happily signs it. Many historians site this as proof that Teddy was the first Senate Majority Leader in all but name.

06-11-1897:
President Cleveland calls an emergency session of Congress, where he makes a speech stumping for an end to war by the United States, and encourages other nations to seek peace. Many members of both parties will praise Cleveland's return to peaceful diplomacy, though Senator Roosevelt is visibly agitated at the end of the speech.

09-03-1897:
"I just wish you weren't so gung-ho about ending conflict. There're some bastards I'd really like to blow up myself in Latin America, and I'd really appreciate you not locking me in [puffs cigar] -"
"Easy there killer. [sips scotch] You can campaign in 1900 stating all our differences, crusading for change, and do whatever you want when I turn the keys over to you. Just let me do my job till then, okay Ted?"
"[rolls eyes, sips scotch]. I just hope you know what you're doing."

01-14-1898:
President Cleveland has finally convinced William Howard Taft to become Governor of the Unified Mexican Territories. He will play a crucial role in making Mexico the teeming cultural and high-tech urban landscape that it is today. Taft and Cleveland will become very good friends over the course of Taft's time as Governor.

07-19-1898:
Vice President Parker and Senator Roosevelt help to create the Conservative Party of New York, along with freshman New York state senator William F. Buckley. It will cross-endorse candidates or run its own, and it has already begun to form a nation-wide movement; Calvin Coolidge Sr is instrumental in setting up a similar party in Vermont, as is his son in Massachusetts.

[jerseyrules]

Comments, questions, concerns?

[jerseyrules]

By the way, here's the Supreme Court list as of 1896 (in order of seniority):

Chief Justice: John W. Davis
Associate Justice: Stephen Johnson Field
Associate Justice: John Marshall Harlan
Associate Justice: Horace Gray
Associate Justice: David Josiah Brewer
Associate Justice: Henry Billings Brown
Associate Justice: George Shiras, Jr.
Associate Justice: Edward Douglass White
Associate Justice: Rufus Wheeler Peckham

Bold = Conservative (Cleveland style), Italics = Progressive

Also, Plessy v. Ferguson was 5-4 in opposition to segregation with Harlan, Field, Brewer, Gray, and Davis in the majority, and Brown, Shiras, White, and Peckham dissenting.

[jerseyrules]

04-11-1898:
"Well, Grove, I heard Stevey's [Stephen Johnson Field] dead."
"Yeah, you heard right. I just wish I had made him Chief Justice. The whole thing's so sad."
"Yeah, he was my kind of guy; he kicked ass and didn't give a shit about what people thought of him for it. I'll be sure his nephew is Chief Justice if you can't make it so."
"But he's an ass! Plus, Davis'll be there for at least forty years."
"You don't think he's gonna get bored?!"
"Nah, he's a lawyer's lawyer, just like his father."
"[takes drag on cigar] Maybe you're right. So, who're you gonna pick to replace him? Whoever it is, they'll have big shoes to fill."
"You're right. Maybe your buddy Hughes?"
"BULLY! I love him as a brother, and he's even more conservative than you or I! Do you mean it, Grove?"
"Sure! [sips scotch] He was my first choice for Chief Justice, but with all the "reach across the aisle" crap I've been doing, I thought the Democrats would get mad at me if I picked him. Parker would've been a good pick too, but I just don't know how long he would've lasted. I like Taft, too; he's a great man, and has expressed desire in becoming Chief Justice."
"We should go inside, we need to take another look at that bill."


[B]04-17-1898:
"...which is why I ask you, my friends, to make sure that Charles Evans Hughes is donning black robes by tomorrow!"
The president's booming voice echoes throughout the senate hall, and applause erupts up and down the aisles. Hughes will be approved by a senate vote of 41-20, thanks to Teddy's pushing more progressive Republicans into line. The Supreme Court is now as follows:

Chief Justice: John W. Davis
Associate Justice: John Marshall Harlan
Associate Justice: Horace Gray
Associate Justice: David Josiah Brewer
Associate Justice: Henry Billings Brown
Associate Justice: George Shiras, Jr.
Associate Justice: Edward Douglass White
Associate Justice: Rufus Wheeler Peckham
Associate Justice: Charles Evans Hughes

[jerseyrules]

Shameless bump

[jerseyrules]

Is anyone reading this?

[arosenberger14]

Yup! Quite enjoyed it so far!

[jerseyrules]

Yup! Quite enjoyed it so far!

Alright, just checking. I'll have an update tomorrow or later tonight.

[Japhy]

I hate to say it because you seem to have put so much effort into this, but its absolutely implausible. There are ways to make Cleveland a more influential president, this isn't one of them.

[jerseyrules]

I hate to say it because you seem to have put so much effort into this, but its absolutely implausible. There are ways to make Cleveland a more influential president, this isn't one of them.

It's mainly that there is no depression in 1893, and that is not the intent of this TL. It's to change history, which will be much more prominent during the tenure of his successor.

[Japhy]

It's mainly that there is no depression in 1893, and that is not the intent of this TL. It's to change history, which will be much more prominent during the tenure of his successor.

No, its more your events and your need to insert "cool" historical figures into unrealistic roles. And their actions in those positions, as well as what you have Cleveland do have no basis in the actual historic figures. Of course you want to change history, but it seems like you're just using figures as blank canvas' to do whatever you want.

As for the Depression of 1893, one cannot simply handwave it away. Its a component of a much longer economic downtime, and its root causes reach back all the way to the 1860s

[jerseyrules]

No, its more your events and your need to insert "cool" historical figures into unrealistic roles. And their actions in those positions, as well as what you have Cleveland do have no basis in the actual historic figures. Of course you want to change history, but it seems like you're just using figures as blank canvas' to do whatever you want.

As for the Depression of 1893, one cannot simply handwave it away. Its a component of a much longer economic downtime, and its root causes reach back all the way to the 1860s

Yes, and the passage of lower tariffs stimulate the economy; any action and confidence in it stimulates economy; it's all about perception and public confidence. In this case, it was caused by high tariffs and sectionalism, which has been solved by an earlier war and tariff reductions. Plus, much of this happened, albeit later, and in some cases (Bic Mac) MUCH later. Please remember that this was my first TL, and that I can't edit it anymore as my time to do so has timed out. I would consider a redo but I simply don't have the time, and if it bothers you, I will understand if you still don't like it. However, Teddy's conservatism is critical ITTL.

[jerseyrules]

2-14-1899:
President Cleveland signs a sweeping new tariff reduction into law, reducing the prices of thousands of goods across the United States. He is praised by Democrats, and some Republicans. (Teddy remains silent on Cleveland's advice.)

7-2-1899:
At the recommendation of Senator Roosevelt, an arms and naval buildup unseen in its proportions since the Adams presidency, is signed into law by Cleveland, albeit begrudgingly. He was an avowed noninterventionist, and was "pressured into the imperialist camp by you pricks!" he jokingly tells Roosevelt. Privately, however, Cleveland was against the bill, but relented out of his friendship with "the gentleman from New York."

10-19-1899:
Senator Roosevelt visits Governor William Howard Taft in Cuba, his new assignment as Mexico's new territorial divisions came into affect. His primary ambition is to become Chief Justice of the United States, and Teddy begins to ponder such a promotion, although it will be quite some time until the next Chief Justice is chosen, with the youth and recent appointment of Justice Davis...

[Peelitebkearns]

"Yes, I honestly feel more at home there. But you know, that new senator from Vermont...what's his name...?"
"Coolidge?"
"Yeah. He's an old fucker, but he's definitely a great campaigner. He won the GOP supermajorities in both houses of the state legislature, and his son's a member of the Massachussets legislature too. His son's really where the future of the party lies. Both of 'em are quiet, very well-mannered. [takes a drag on cigar] Neither of them have ever mentioned their opponents in their speeches. It would drive me mad to spend a day without being the jackass I normally am, but I think he would be a good fresh face to run for governor or something in a couple years."
"Really?"
"Sure. He's even got a son of his own too-"
"Let's not get ahead of ourselves."
"But seriously, I really think either one of 'em would be great as a running mate for me in 1900."

TR must be refering to Coolidge Seniour (Calvin's dad) here? I'm assuming Cal had a brother, because that's the only way that last paragraph could make sense.

I hope you don't mean Calvin and his 2 sons, because Cal would only be 27 in 1900, so wouldn't be able to be nominated. And the only way TR could possibly know so much about Cal JR and John is through some sort of psychic ability, because they're not even born at this point.

I really, really want to see a TL where Cleveland is reelected in 1896/is more affective in general and I like the glimpses of the future you provided re conservative dems and liberal reps, but I just think their are obvious flaurs in this TL. By all means carry on with the TL-it's an interesting read, but just keep the inplausibilities (like a top politician considering picking an unborn kid as a running mate) out of it from now on.

Of course, if I got the wrong end of the stick then I apologise, like I said you could be talking about Coolidge the elder.

Actually looking back on that particular paragraph, I think I did get the wrong end of the stick there.

Still, I can't imagine TR being particularly impressed by either Silent cal or his father-I seriously doubt he'd describe them as great campaigners, unless he's being sarcastic of course.

Despite my critisism, I want you to keep this up-it's not the most plausible TL, but it's enjoyable-I would say keep any unlikely events to a minimum from now on though, if you're attempting a serious ah.

[Japhy]

Is there a reason that every quote you put in this timeline is vulgar? People didn't talk like this, and certainly not politicians publicly.

And I still really can't fathom how such a relationship between your (Implauseable) Senator Roosevelt and your version of President Cleveland. How does this sort of thing even work besides "TR is Cool"?

[Sean Mulligan]

How can John W. Davis be Chief Justice in 1896? He was only 23 at the time and had only just graduated from law school. He also was the lawyer for the pro segregation forces in the Brown VS Board of Education case.

[Japhy]

How can John W. Davis be Chief Justice in 1896? He was only 23 at the time and had only just graduated from law school. He also was the lawyer for the pro segregation forces in the Brown VS Board of Education case.

I hadn't even caught his Age, it certainly makes the appointment ridiculous, as a random though though, is there a minimum age for being Chief Justice?

Not that a racist Chief Justice is impossible in the 1890's, even Pre-Plessy, though it makes it a bit hard for one to be Pro-Segregation.

[Sean Mulligan]

I hadn't even caught his Age, it certainly makes the appointment ridiculous, as a random though though, is there a minimum age for being Chief Justice?

Not that a racist Chief Justice is impossible in the 1890's, even Pre-Plessy, though it makes it a bit hard for one to be Pro-Segregation.

My point was the author had Davis vote against the segregationists in Plessy v Ferguson.

[Japhy]

My point was the author had Davis vote against the segregationists in Plessy v Ferguson.

Oh, hey, would you look at that?

[jerseyrules]

I hadn't even caught his Age, it certainly makes the appointment ridiculous, as a random though though, is there a minimum age for being Chief Justice?

Not that a racist Chief Justice is impossible in the 1890's, even Pre-Plessy, though it makes it a bit hard for one to be Pro-Segregation.

No minimum age, and I thought he was ten years older. Whoops. :o

[jerseyrules]

Oh, hey, would you look at that?

That was a typo, I'll fix it immediately. When you post at 3 am you miss a few things :o. Sorry guys

[jerseyrules]

Plessy v. Ferguson was decided 6-3 upholding segregation with Harlan, Brewer, and Gray in the minority, and Brown, Shiras, White, Davis, Field, and Peckham forming the majority. Chief Justice Davis writes the majority opinion, outlining the need to "enforce the fourteenth and fifteenth amendments while not treading on states' rights".

[Ariosto]

When did Cleveland become an Imperialist? In reality he was opposed to Empire, and in the case of Hawaii, as an example, only would annex lands whose populace wished to become part of the United States.

[jerseyrules]

When did Cleveland become an Imperialist? In reality he was opposed to Empire, and in the case of Hawaii, as an example, only would annex lands whose populace wished to become part of the United States.


Yes, he became an imperialist due to the belief that it would unite the country and help promote nationalism over sectionalism which had plagued the country since the Civil War. He's not a raging imperialist like teddy though; he's against imperialism in general.

[MAlexMatt]

Yes, he became an imperialist due to the belief that it would unite the country and help promote nationalism over sectionalism which had plagued the country since the Civil War. He's not a raging imperialist like teddy though; he's against imperialism in general.

I dunno about that. He explicitly rejected annexing Hawaii when it was handed to him on a dinner plate. Just going 180 degrees on this for a possible rally-round-the-flag effect is...uncharacteristic. Cleveland was an liberal of the old school which found imperialism of every kind anathema to good government.

[jerseyrules]

I dunno about that. He explicitly rejected annexing Hawaii when it was handed to him on a dinner plate. Just going 180 degrees on this for a possible rally-round-the-flag effect is...uncharacteristic. Cleveland was an liberal of the old school which found imperialism of every kind anathema to good government.

In all fairness, they started the war ITTL. It wasn't exactly something he wanted, but he was encouraged by the go-ahead of his advisors, high command, and close friends, I.e. teddy. His belief ITTL is that the deep divide in the country was bad, and ITTL KKK violence and Mason-Dixie division was much worse.

[Ariosto]

Yes, he became an imperialist due to the belief that it would unite the country and help promote nationalism over sectionalism which had plagued the country since the Civil War. He's not a raging imperialist like teddy though; he's against imperialism in general.
Yet you have him taking Greenland, Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands............

In all fairness, they started the war ITTL. It wasn't exactly something he wanted, but he was encouraged by the go-ahead of his advisors, high command, and close friends, I.e. teddy. His belief ITTL is that the deep divide in the country was bad, and ITTL KKK violence and Mason-Dixie division was much worse.
Cleveland privately believed that the Queen was the legitimate head of Government for Hawaii, and only under great political pressure did he recognize the Republican Government; he refused to consider supporting them beyond that.

[Japhy]

No one in their right mind in Hawaii would start a war with the United States.

[jerseyrules]

No one in their right mind in Hawaii would start a war with the United States.

Who said they were in their right mind? ;)

[jerseyrules]

Yet you have him taking Greenland, Hawaii, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands............


Cleveland privately believed that the Queen was the legitimate head of Government for Hawaii, and only under great political pressure did he recognize the Republican Government; he refused to consider supporting them beyond that.


A large war effort to unite the country; the further expansion of the conflict were unintended. After ten years in the White House, anyone will shift their positions. Part of it is political pandering to the beat of the war drum being banged proudly and loudly by TR, Hearst and his media empire, and others.

[Japhy]

It seems clear that this whole timeline is an exercise in "Handwaved Awesome Results." If you can't bother doing any research, and instead just use throw away excuses like "National Unity from the war!" there's not much reason to bother with it at all.

[jerseyrules]

It seems clear that this whole timeline is an exercise in "Handwaved Awesome Results." If you can't bother doing any research, and instead just use throw away excuses like "National Unity from the war!" there's not much reason to bother with it at all.

Please be polite if you're trying to give me advice. Or if you're just being rude, then that's your right, but please don't be a troll. Because lets be honest, there's not enough time in the world to waste on things you don't enjoy, and you clearly don't enjoy my work, which is your right, and I understand. Feel free to get the last word, I'm moving on.

[MAlexMatt]

Please be polite if you're trying to give me advice. Or if you're just being rude, then that's your right, but please don't be a troll. Because lets be honest, there's not enough time in the world to waste on things you don't enjoy, and you clearly don't enjoy my work, which is your right, and I understand. Feel free to get the last word, I'm moving on.

We were polite. You dismissed our concerns out of hand.

[jerseyrules]

We were polite. You dismissed our concerns out of hand.

I didn't dismiss, I responded respectfully, only to get "if you can't bother doing any research...just don't do it at all." I am happy to take criticism, but I will not tolerate flat out insults to me or anyone else on my thread. Now if you've got something something else to respectfully critique me on, then I'd love to hear it. You and everyone else who commented before you were respectful, with the exception of Japhy. Please bare with me, this is my first TL, and it's a learning experience. I'm not interested in flame wars, if I wanted that I'd go to YouTube.

[jerseyrules]

Does anyone know how to make those world maps people always use on this site? It would really help for this next update.

[jerseyrules]

Anybody here?

[MrHuman]

Anybody here?

I am, if you're planning on continuing this.