Hurricane Katrina hits the CSA...

[NHBL]

Suppose any one of the "South becomes independent" timelines has come to pass, with all the classic trimmings so loved by Confederate AH's--especially the very weak central government and strong state governmnents. How would things play out. Incidently, the USA is NOT a friendly power, and is not dependent on Confederate oil. The CSA is, before the storm, essentially self sufficient as far as oil--they have these big offshore rigs in the gulf, Louisianna refinerys...OOPS!!!
So--what happens?

[Nicksplace27]

Suppose any one of the "South becomes independent" timelines has come to pass, with all the classic trimmings so loved by Confederate AH's--especially the very weak central government and strong state governmnents. How would things play out. Incidently, the USA is NOT a friendly power, and is not dependent on Confederate oil. The CSA is, before the storm, essentially self sufficient as far as oil--they have these big offshore rigs in the gulf, Louisianna refinerys...OOPS!!!
So--what happens?

TOTALLY SCREWED

[chrispi]

Suppose any one of the "South becomes independent" timelines has come to pass, with all the classic trimmings so loved by Confederate AH's--especially the very weak central government and strong state governmnents. How would things play out. Incidently, the USA is NOT a friendly power, and is not dependent on Confederate oil. The CSA is, before the storm, essentially self sufficient as far as oil--they have these big offshore rigs in the gulf, Louisianna refinerys...OOPS!!!
So--what happens?
Hurricanes in general would hurt the CSA's development, and without help from the USA in the form of the New Deal (read hydro plants in Tennessee) it would be much poorer than OTL. In fact, it would be likely that foreign oil concerns like BC (British-Confederate) and Union oil companies would effectively own the Gulf, and that they would be hurt as much as the Confederacy.

[Wendell]

This is entirely too soon to be starting this.

[Tetsu]

This is entirely too soon to be starting this.

Why, exactly?

[Wendell]

Because the tragedy in New Orleans is ongoing :(

[ComradeFlyer]

but it is still something viable to think about.... i was wondering what kind of aide an independent New England would offer earlier today.

[Wendell]

but it is still something viable to think about.... i was wondering what kind of aide an independent New England would offer earlier today.
Well, some Universities elsewhere in the South are offerring to take students enrolled in affected schools, so maybe and Independent NE would do that as well?

[David S Poepoe]

but it is still something viable to think about.... i was wondering what kind of aide an independent New England would offer earlier today.

Where the heck is that coming from? This would have to be an earlier POD since we generally know that wouldn't happen after a Confederacy wins WI.

Actually, I would hazard that New Orleans may come out better than in OTL. It was thru massive Federal aid that the levees were built following a previous flood of epic proportions in 1960 right? The construct of the levees, usually in order to facilitate the urban growth of New Orleans, have adversely effected the natural wetlands that would have absorbed much of the water. Without the construction of such levees the city wouldn't have grown to such proportions, without state oversight, that such disasters would be on similar scale as to what we see today. Also without development the natural wetlands could have naturally absorbed or diverted some of the water.

Granted the city is still built below sealevel, so one should expect flooding.

[Straha]

If the TL is anything like GURPS Alternate Earth's Dixie or my confederate "victory" TL the union likely doesn't send aid and is lauging its ass off at the confederates.

[MarkA]

Considering the criminal neglect and incompetence of the Federal gvts response so far what would be different?

How can a supposedly advanced nation like the US allow thousands of its citizens to die and suffer AFTER the event through lack of food, water, shelter and proper protection? One hundred helicopters and a hundred buses ferrying supplies and troops in and refugees out would aliviate the problems in about two days. With the military setting up relatively small evacuation centres to send the people to.

Instead what is this administration's response? Send in armed soldiers to shoot desperate people trying to stay alive. What a mentality!

[David S Poepoe]

Considering the criminal neglect and incompetence of the Federal gvts response so far what would be different?

How can a supposedly advanced nation like the US allow thousands of its citizens to die and suffer AFTER the event through lack of food, water, shelter and proper protection? One hundred helicopters and a hundred buses ferrying supplies and troops in and refugees out would aliviate the problems in about two days. With the military setting up relatively small evacuation centres to send the people to.

Instead what is this administration's response? Send in armed soldiers to shoot desperate people trying to stay alive. What a mentality!

Editoralizing should be taken to another forum.

[MarkA]

Editoralizing should be taken to another forum.

My point is that it would not make a difference if it was CSA or USA.

[David S Poepoe]

My point is that it would not make a difference if it was CSA or USA.

Why not support you point a bit stronger. Like give a reason why you think so. I don't believe you are pointing at anything of consequence.

[david3565]

but it is still something viable to think about.... i was wondering what kind of aide an independent New England would offer earlier today.

No one is saying it isn't something viable to think about, but let us show some tact and solidarity and wait until people aren't dying in the street anymore before bringing up this subject...

[JEDCJT]

Not good, I suspect.

[Halnzder Kverldak]

Suppose any one of the "South becomes independent" timelines has come to pass, with all the classic trimmings so loved by Confederate AH's--especially the very weak central government and strong state governmnents. How would things play out. Incidently, the USA is NOT a friendly power, and is not dependent on Confederate oil. The CSA is, before the storm, essentially self sufficient as far as oil--they have these big offshore rigs in the gulf, Louisianna refinerys...OOPS!!!
So--what happens?

Ever heard of the butterfly effect?

[Halnzder Kverldak]

Instead what is this administration's response? Send in armed soldiers to shoot desperate people trying to stay alive. What a mentality!

These "desperate people" are looting everything(not juste food), they are comitting raipes, slaughter, robbery etc hardly anything to survive. Several thousands haven`t made it juste to "give people a chance" already...

[NapoleonXIV]

An independent CSA would regard New Orleans as the jewel of it's cities, rich in both commerce and history. Even if it's leader was an insane megalomaniac intent on squandering the lives and treasure he was given stewardship over on avenging some slight to his father, he would probably not have diverted resources earmarked for its safety. Further, it is unlikely that a modern CSA would have all the pressures for development of wetlands found in OTL. While the disaster would still have happened, it might have been somewhat less and the aftermath would undoubtedly see a quicker and much more positive response due to NO's high commercial and symbolic value to the CSA.

[David S Poepoe]

An independent CSA would regard New Orleans as the jewel of it's cities, rich in both commerce and history. Even if it's leader was an insane megalomaniac intent on squandering the lives and treasure he was given stewardship over on avenging some slight to his father, he would probably not have diverted resources earmarked for its safety. Further, it is unlikely that a modern CSA would have all the pressures for development of wetlands found in OTL. While the disaster would still have happened, it might have been somewhat less and the aftermath would undoubtedly see a quicker and much more positive response due to NO's high commercial and symbolic value to the CSA.

Aside from 'Even if it's leader was an insane megalomaniac intent on squandering the lives and treasure he was given stewardship over on avenging some slight to his father, he would probably not have diverted resources earmarked for its safety.' I think your observation is basically correct.

However, completely disposing of the argument that the US and CS are not friendly, which seems to ignore the importance to the Midwest of access to the Gulf via the Mississippi and New Orleans, [do you people think nothing exists between the Confederacy's northern border and Canada?] I think its likely that some Union response to the disaster will occur.

[MarkA]

Don't you have a Confederate leader? He is from the South.

Is it a coincidence that the vast majority of people trapped and desperate are poor and/or black? The Black Caucaus of your own Congress doesn't seem to think it is. How would this differ from a CSA scenario?

A disaster plan that tells people to go to a particlar place then has nothing there for them for days. A president who takes no action and refuses to take personal charge. Surely that is the response a CSA leader would take too.

[JLCook]

Considering the criminal neglect and incompetence of the Federal gvts response so far what would be different?

How can a supposedly advanced nation like the US allow thousands of its citizens to die and suffer AFTER the event through lack of food, water, shelter and proper protection? One hundred helicopters and a hundred buses ferrying supplies and troops in and refugees out would aliviate the problems in about two days. With the military setting up relatively small evacuation centres to send the people to.

Instead what is this administration's response? Send in armed soldiers to shoot desperate people trying to stay alive. What a mentality!

You did notice that the people those soldiers are shooting are also armed, and that they are shooting at helicopters, relief vehicles and relief workers? No? Well then, go read up on it, somewhere besides the NEW YORK TIMES, and get back to us, OK?

Also, did you notice the shambles that the area transportaion net is in? Not as easy to just drive up and haul people out when your vehicles cannot get to where the poeople are located and that helicopter rescue, even with lots of helicopters is a slow, tedious task? You didn't know that? I'm glad I was able to bring this to your attention!

[Nosb]

Don't you have a Confederate leader? He is from the South. He was born in Connecticut, moved to Texas as a teenager, but want to boarding schools all over, as well as went to college in the North. I personal believe he's either learned the accent or has a slight one and lays it on thick so to appear more 'down-home country' to his base in the south and southwest.

[csa945]

Don't you have a Confederate leader? He is from the South.

When did Connecticut make its way to the other side of the Mason-Dixon line?

[Nosb]

Basically, we hadn't planned for this. As Bush doesn't plan for most thing. The idea that a hurricane would hit New Orleans, break the leeves and cause the city to flood hadn't to most people, except for a handful of scientists, but most of them also have this crazy notion about 'global warming' which bush knows isn't true, so just basically ignores them now. Then we it did happen, so many military and national guard resources were in Iraq that it took incredibly long to gather them to do what needed to be done. Add to this Bush's cuts to emergency relieve. It's basically all these things coming together into one really bad thing. If this had happened a year ago, bush would be out of work now.

And I don't what to hear this racist BS. New Orleans is 70% black, that's why you see all those blacks in shots of downtown, which was the worst affected, which is even more black. Racism doesn't have anything to do with it, the resources weren't their to do anything immodestly. If any thing, it's class. Poor white people anywhere didn't get any special treatment. That and Bush's people lack an understanding of the poor situation. They don't seem to understand why these people just can't drive off somewhere save, but 90% of the people stuck there don't have cars.

[MarkA]

You did notice that the people those soldiers are shooting are also armed, and that they are shooting at helicopters, relief vehicles and relief workers? No? Well then, go read up on it, somewhere besides the NEW YORK TIMES, and get back to us, OK?

Also, did you notice the shambles that the area transportaion net is in? Not as easy to just drive up and haul people out when your vehicles cannot get to where the poeople are located and that helicopter rescue, even with lots of helicopters is a slow, tedious task? You didn't know that? I'm glad I was able to bring this to your attention!

What rot! Those people were told to go to these centres before the hurricane hit and those areas were inadequate as shelters and had no stockpiles of food or water. Criminal incompetence.

Airdrops could have delivered food, water and medical supplies. No airdrops even when the storm had passed the skies were clear and no strong winds. No helicopters bringing supplies in and people out. Criminal incompetence.

Buses were in the city and there were not enough of them and no coordination of relief. Criminal incompetence.

No emergency personel on the ground - no materials - no basic planning. Criminal incompetence.

In 1974 within 24 hours of a cyclone destroying Darwin we managed to have relief teams on the ground and an evacuation proceeding smoothly. In terms of proportional devestation, this was a far worse tragedy than the terrible events in New Orleans. Nobody died from government neglect.

Leadership, determination and some basic planning was all that was needed. All this was lacking in this case and the buck stops where?

[Nosb]

What rot! Those people were told to go to these centres before the hurricane hit and those areas were inadequate as shelters and had no stockpiles of food or water. Criminal incompetence.

Airdrops could have delivered food, water and medical supplies. No airdrops even when the storm had passed the skies were clear and no strong winds. No helicopters bringing supplies in and people out. Criminal incompetence.

Buses were in the city and there were not enough of them and no coordination of relief. Criminal incompetence.

No emergency personnel on the ground - no materials - no basic planning. Criminal incompetence.

In 1974 within 24 hours of a cyclone destroying Darwin we managed to have relief teams on the ground and an evacuation proceeding smoothly. In terms of proportional devestation, this was a far worse tragedy than the terrible events in New Orleans. Nobody died from government neglect.

Leadership, determination and some basic planning was all that was needed. All this was lacking in this case and the buck stops where?

In Darwin 70% of the city was destroyed. In New Orleans up to 89% of the city was UNDERWATER, now its down to 70% of the city. So first off, no, proportional more damage was done to New Orleans since there is damage plus the majority of the city being underwater. There's a big difference. Add to that the city of Darwin as around 150,000 people. Metro New Orleans (and a lot more then that was hit by the way all the way to Biloxi in the east, which is about the half the size of Darwin) has more then 1,500,000, more then ten times the population of Darwin. Don't compare the two. There is nothing criminal here, incompetency yes. Very, very few countries have plans for what to do when a city put nearly totally underwater.

[MarkA]

In Darwin 70% of the city was destroyed. In New Orleans up to 89% of the city was UNDERWATER, now its down to 70% of the city. So first off, no, proportional more damage was done to New Orleans since there is damage plus the majority of the city being underwater. There's a big difference. Add to that the city of Darwin as around 150,000 people. Metro New Orleans (and a lot more then that was hit by the way all the way to Biloxi in the east, which is about the half the size of Darwin) has more then 1,500,000, more then ten times the population of Darwin. Don't compare the two. There is nothing criminal here, incompetency yes. Very, very few countries have plans for what to do when a city put nearly totally underwater.

The refugees are not underwater! They are in DESIGNATED areas. These designated areas were inadeaquate and supplyless.

Ten times the population affected in New Orleans and surrounds while Australia's population is far less than 10 times the pop of the USA. Proportionally much worse.

Not all of New Orleans was destroyed. While 70% of Darwin may have been wiped out, the rest was severely damaged, mostly uninhabitable and there was no electricity or running waer.

The authorities knew the hurricane was going to hit New Orleans. They designated areas for the people to go to. They failed to supply or support those people. George II failed to show any leadership and still continues to do so.

[Nosb]

The refugees are not underwater! They are in DESIGNATED areas. These designated areas were inadeaquate and supplyless.

Ten times the population affected in New Orleans and surrounds while Australia's population is far less than 10 times the pop of the USA. Proportionally much worse.

Not all of New Orleans was destroyed. While 70% of Darwin may have been wiped out, the rest was severely damaged, mostly uninhabitable and there was no electricity or running waer.

The authorities knew the hurricane was going to hit New Orleans. They designated areas for the people to go to. They failed to supply or support those people. George II failed to show any leadership and still continues to do so.

For days on end, yes. There's not room for supplies for nearly 1,500,000 million people for several days. And most of the centers where in areas that where either flooded or cut of because of flooding. The evacuees are not underwater, most of them are gone, it's about 200,000-100,000 that were trapped in the city. Removing 200,000 isolated people isn't not easy. How does how many people each country has matter? The resources were about the same, considering both countries per capita income is about the same. The undertaking in New Orleans was much bigger and much harder then anything that happened in Darwin. I bet people weren't stranded in isolated places without communication and food were cut off and there position weren't even known. A city under water is much different then a city just hit by a hurricane. We have hurricane's all the time here, sometimes it seems like monthly or weekly, and most of the time death it at a minimum. So, again, you can't compare Darwin and New Orleans, it's too different situations. I said New Orleans had 1,500,000. I would say about 4,000,000 people were effected. So proportional to national populations, this one is worse.

[Superdude]

The refugees are not underwater! They are in DESIGNATED areas. These designated areas were inadeaquate and supplyless.

Ten times the population affected in New Orleans and surrounds while Australia's population is far less than 10 times the pop of the USA. Proportionally much worse.

Not all of New Orleans was destroyed. While 70% of Darwin may have been wiped out, the rest was severely damaged, mostly uninhabitable and there was no electricity or running waer.

The authorities knew the hurricane was going to hit New Orleans. They designated areas for the people to go to. They failed to supply or support those people. George II failed to show any leadership and still continues to do so.


Proportionally isn't as important as you make it. You have to deal with actual numbers as well.

[MarkA]

The USA had and still has much greater numbers of planes, trucks, helicopters etc than Australia even per head of population. It is still far richer. It has a much larger infastructure. It has capable people.

The problem is it obviously lacks leadership.

You are right you are dealing with 100,000 to 200,000 people left behind, not 4,000,000 and that is beyond the capacity of your leadership to deal with? These people I stress again are in areas they were told to evacuate to. There was no infrastructure there for them when they arrived.

[Superdude]

It also takes more time to assemble them, since they are spread out all over the place.

However, I believe the government is massively at fault here. You are right in saying the USA has a leadership problem.

[DuQuense]

Back to the Original Question [as if any one will care]

I doubt that in a CSA TL there would have been this level of Damage, as New Orleans would have been a minor town just north of the Mississippi bay,

Without Massive Federal aid in the 1930's building Dams along the Red River/Mississippi Connections, the Father of Rivers would be draining past Lafayette, and out into Atchafaya Bay

[Imajin]

Back to the Original Question [as if any one will care]

I doubt that in a CSA TL there would have been this level of Damage, as New Orleans would have been a minor town just north of the Mississippi bay,

Without Massive Federal aid in the 1930's building Dams along the Red River/Mississippi Connections, the Father of Rivers would be draining past Lafayette, and out into Atchafaya Bay
I think the CSA Government (and the Louisiana State Government) would have a major role in trying to keep the Mississippi River going on it's current course.

[JLCook]

The refugees are not underwater! They are in DESIGNATED areas. These designated areas were inadeaquate and supplyless.

Ten times the population affected in New Orleans and surrounds while Australia's population is far less than 10 times the pop of the USA. Proportionally much worse.

Not all of New Orleans was destroyed. While 70% of Darwin may have been wiped out, the rest was severely damaged, mostly uninhabitable and there was no electricity or running waer.

The authorities knew the hurricane was going to hit New Orleans. They designated areas for the people to go to. They failed to supply or support those people. George II failed to show any leadership and still continues to do so.

However, many refused to go! Some that "decided" to "ride out the storm" may well have had no chance to leave, being unable to get on a bus and perhaps not having a car, I find it highly unlikely that the vast majority of those poor people really had no access to an automobile, however. It may be possible, but I was under the impression that nearly every poor person in America had at least a car!

What struck me, prior to the hurrican even arriving was the number of persons, shown and interviewd on channels lkie CNN and MSNBC and yes, FOX, who were not only able to get out because they had the means, were told to get out and REFUSED, nonchalantly asserting that they'd just stay there and ride it out! Afterwards, I saw several survivors who wailed at the TV camera with a different tune :"WE WERE DUMB!" they were screaming! I am quoting directly here, not stating opinion on that!

This disaster is on a scale much like the Tsunami last Christmas, affecting probably fewer people, but more thoroughly disrupting the areas affected.

The "emergency Response" which is being so roundly criticised may well be inadequate. I'll bet that a two foot snowfall in the same area would also be crippleing and just as likewise, the means to remove the snow would be just as inadequate as the efforts to assist in the evacuation of this disaster. Nobody can plan for this sort of thing, and assets to adequately cope with this event, if they were in place, are now destroyed and those not there have to be brought in---and being outside the area of devastation, are now having great difficulties in even getting into the areas hard hit!

All I can say is, if any have serious objections to the way this disaster is being handled, may I suggest that you go there yourself, and serve as an UNPAID VOLUNTEER, and provide your ample expertise at disaster management to sort out this problem yourself! New Orleans needs your expert supervisdory skills and awaits your personally delivered "orders" expecting immediate results! Go for it!

Also, you complained about the "designated areas" as being "inadequate"? Those areas were last minute solutions, the first solution was an emergency evacuation ORDER, mandating that everyone get out, while there was still ample time to do so and while there was still public means to assist in that effort. Those who went to the superdome went there after they had procrastinated well past way too late to escape, and the Superdome was not properly provisioned because it wasn't the solution that was desired prior to the hurricane! They certainly were inadequate. If the city officials had made them properly stocked with supplies, right now those same city officials would be criticised for suggesting that their plan for dealing with the hurricane, in the face of all common sense, was to send people to the Superdome, as opposed to sending them somewhere they would have actually been safe!

Second guessing the emergency decisions of those on the spot, in New Orleans, prior to the disaster, along with second guessing and criticising the efforts AFTER the disaster, certainly are the realm of someone who isn't there, has no answers, but none the less feels obligated to complain! Again, may I suggest you purcahse a plane ticket to the closest airport and soon thereafter, offer up your own volunteer, UNPAID services as a disaster recovery effort supervisor and answerman! GO FOR IT! Bring hip boots and a good supply of your own water, food and clean underwear!

[Wendell]

These "desperate people" are looting everything(not juste food), they are comitting raipes, slaughter, robbery etc hardly anything to survive. Several thousands haven`t made it juste to "give people a chance" already...
My question is, why was Louisiana so ill-prepared :confused:

[JLCook]

My question is, why was Louisiana so ill-prepared :confused:


Nobody has adequate preparations for a disaster of this scale! I imagine that Chicago has "inadequate " preparations for a 9.2 Ricter scale earthquake or that Boston or New York have "Adequate preparations" for a 100foot Tsunami or that Kansas has adequate preparations for a FOREST FIRE covering the whole state! You could also state that in Los ANgeles, they are "inadequately" prepared for the possibility of FALLING INTO THE PACIFIC OCEAN!

Where YOU live is doubtlessly "inadequately" prepared to deal with a 100mt nuclear airburst, directly overhead! Back in the 1950's and 1960's that was certainly as great a possibility as a class 5 hurricane hitting NO dead center!

[Wendell]

Nobody has adequate preparations for a disaster of this scale! I imagine that Chicago has "inadequate " preparations for a 9.2 Ricter scale earthquake or that Boston or New York have "Adequate preparations" for a 100foot Tsunami or that Kansas has adequate preparations for a FOREST FIRE covering the whole state! You could also state that in Los ANgeles, they are "inadequately" prepared for the possibility of FALLING INTO THE PACIFIC OCEAN!

Where YOU live is doubtlessly "inadequately" prepared to deal with a 100mt nuclear airburst, directly overhead! Back in the 1950's and 1960's that was certainly as great a possibility as a class 5 hurricane hitting NO dead center!
Louisiana is right in the center of hurricane-topia, and New Orleans is below sea level. It was bound to happen eventually. It wasn't a random thing. The place had had a great deal of luck is all.

[MarkA]

However, many refused to go! Some that "decided" to "ride out the storm" may well have had no chance to leave, being unable to get on a bus and perhaps not having a car, I find it highly unlikely that the vast majority of those poor people really had no access to an automobile, however. It may be possible, but I was under the impression that nearly every poor person in America had at least a car!

What struck me, prior to the hurrican even arriving was the number of persons, shown and interviewd on channels lkie CNN and MSNBC and yes, FOX, who were not only able to get out because they had the means, were told to get out and REFUSED, nonchalantly asserting that they'd just stay there and ride it out! Afterwards, I saw several survivors who wailed at the TV camera with a different tune :"WE WERE DUMB!" they were screaming! I am quoting directly here, not stating opinion on that!

This disaster is on a scale much like the Tsunami last Christmas, affecting probably fewer people, but more thoroughly disrupting the areas affected.

The "emergency Response" which is being so roundly criticised may well be inadequate. I'll bet that a two foot snowfall in the same area would also be crippleing and just as likewise, the means to remove the snow would be just as inadequate as the efforts to assist in the evacuation of this disaster. Nobody can plan for this sort of thing, and assets to adequately cope with this event, if they were in place, are now destroyed and those not there have to be brought in---and being outside the area of devastation, are now having great difficulties in even getting into the areas hard hit!

All I can say is, if any have serious objections to the way this disaster is being handled, may I suggest that you go there yourself, and serve as an UNPAID VOLUNTEER, and provide your ample expertise at disaster management to sort out this problem yourself! New Orleans needs your expert supervisdory skills and awaits your personally delivered "orders" expecting immediate results! Go for it!

Also, you complained about the "designated areas" as being "inadequate"? Those areas were last minute solutions, the first solution was an emergency evacuation ORDER, mandating that everyone get out, while there was still ample time to do so and while there was still public means to assist in that effort. Those who went to the superdome went there after they had procrastinated well past way too late to escape, and the Superdome was not properly provisioned because it wasn't the solution that was desired prior to the hurricane! They certainly were inadequate. If the city officials had made them properly stocked with supplies, right now those same city officials would be criticised for suggesting that their plan for dealing with the hurricane, in the face of all common sense, was to send people to the Superdome, as opposed to sending them somewhere they would have actually been safe!

Second guessing the emergency decisions of those on the spot, in New Orleans, prior to the disaster, along with second guessing and criticising the efforts AFTER the disaster, certainly are the realm of someone who isn't there, has no answers, but none the less feels obligated to complain! Again, may I suggest you purcahse a plane ticket to the closest airport and soon thereafter, offer up your own volunteer, UNPAID services as a disaster recovery effort supervisor and answerman! GO FOR IT! Bring hip boots and a good supply of your own water, food and clean underwear!

Amazing! You blame the VICTIMS of this terrible tragedy instead of the incompetent dunderhead you have in the White House.

Any leader with two functioning brain cells would have 1. immediately declared a national emergency 2. ordered food drops from planes. 3. commandeered every available helicopter in the United States and flew in supplies and aid and troops and ferried out refugees. 4. ordered the army to set up refugees centres (tent cities) in adjoining states to cope with the evacuees. This is NOT hindsight it is simple common sense procedures that should have been followed.

Of course any responsible President would have had lots of troops, military vehicles and aircraft because they would not be overseas engaged in a pointless war to avenge daddy's honour.

The authorities in the United States would not let Australian consular officials in to evacuate our citizens so how do you suggest volunteers get in? In the early part of the crisis your authorities would not even accept foreign offers of help! I have donated to the relief cause here as I hope you have done.

Do not shift blame to those who are not to blame. The buck stops anywhere but here! is the motto of this administration.

[Wendell]

Amazing! You blame the VICTIMS of this terrible tragedy instead of the incompetent dunderhead you have in the White House.

Any leader with two functioning brain cells would have 1. immediately declared a national emergency 2. ordered food drops from planes. 3. commandeered every available helicopter in the United States and flew in supplies and aid and troops and ferried out refugees. 4. ordered the army to set up refugees centres (tent cities) in adjoining states to cope with the evacuees. This is NOT hindsight it is simple common sense procedures that should have been followed.

Of course any responsible President would have had lots of troops, military vehicles and aircraft because they would not be overseas engaged in a pointless war to avenge daddy's honour.

The authorities in the United States would not let Australian consular officials in to evacuate our citizens so how do you suggest volunteers get in? In the early part of the crisis your authorities would not even accept foreign offers of help! I have donated to the relief cause here as I hope you have done.

Do not shift blame to those who are not to blame. The buck stops anywhere but here! is the motto of this administration.
You would complain if he had done such a thing. Have you no understanding that state governments exist for a reason?

[David S Poepoe]

This thread has gotten miles off course. The political editorializing should be taken to the Chat Forum.

[Imajin]

You would complain if he had done such a thing. Have you no understanding that state governments exist for a reason?
Why does the Federal Government exist then, if not to help provide for disasters that the state governments can't handle on their own?

[DuQuense]

Back to the Original Question [as if any one will care]

Well I did get ONE response back on Topic

I doubt that in a CSA TL there would have been this level of Damage, as New Orleans would have been a minor town just north of the Mississippi bay,

Without Massive Federal aid in the 1930's building Dams along the Red River/Mississippi Connections, the Father of Rivers would be draining past Lafayette, and out into Atchafaya Bay

I think the CSA Government (and the Louisiana State Government) would have a major role in trying to keep the Mississippi River going on it's current course.

Problem is the Original Idea is that the CSA Government is prohibited from spending these kind [ Massive amount] of moneys for this, and Louisiana would have been unable to afford it on Her own.

[Imajin]

Problem is the Original Idea is that the CSA Government is prohibited from spending these kind [ Massive amount] of moneys for this, and Louisiana would have been unable to afford it on Her own.
How much money did it cost to fix the course OTL, and was any of the work already done by the ACW?

[Wendell]

Why does the Federal Government exist then, if not to help provide for disasters that the state governments can't handle on their own?
There was next to no effort on the part of Louisiana to prepare for this, let alone handle it. But is that Washington's fault?

[DuQuense]

In the 1920's several Lumber companies got together and decided to clear the log jams that had build up on the Red River in the 1890's after some floods had Bankrupted the old Companies that were using the Red. [Old logs are very Valuable] When they removed the jams, the river dropped, and one of the small tributaries flowing from the Red to the Mississippi changed direction. Within a month it was threatening to take the Mississippi with it, the Army Corp of engineers spend 50 $$ millions of 1920's money to build a Dam. In late '40's a flood almost took out the dam. So the Corp spent some 1/2 a billion$$ ['50's money] building a second Dam, even with Corp repairs and extensions it has almost gone several time since.

The Mississippi is now some 50 feet higher than the Red, and only the Annual repair and upgrades of the Levees in the lower Mississippi Basin, prevents the Course Change.