Why no biracial rockstars in the 1950's?

[The Admiral Hook]

When rock and roll hit it was a major racial barrier torn asunder. White kids listening to black artists and black kids listening to whites.

There were black rock innovators at this time, (Little Richard, Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, etc.) as well as whites, (Buddy Holly, Eddie Cochran, Gene Vincent, Jerry Lee Lewis, etc.). To my knowledge however, there were no even moderately popular biracial musicians.

Considering the relatively large amount of mixed race people in the United States at the time, I'm wondering why there were no biracial/multiracial rock 'n' roll stars during the 1950's.

Any thoughts on this or any info on biracial musicians from OTL that could fill this void in an AH?

And an additional query: What are the effects of a major innovator (we're talking Elvis level of popularity here) in rock's infancy being a biracial person?

[Plumber]

Biracial? Only in New Orleans could such a thing happen without a lynching.

[The Admiral Hook]

Biracial? Only in New Orleans could such a thing happen without a lynching.

Not really. Black artists had some trouble playing for white kid and co-race audiences (and the other way around) but no one (famous at least) ever got "lynched".

[Plumber]

Not really. Black artists had some trouble playing for white kid and co-race audiences (and the other way around) but no one (famous at least) ever got "lynched".

Not biracial musicians, biracial people. They simply didn't exist on a wide scale, and the ones that did either passed or were black because of the one drop rule.

[Catmo]

I wouldn't be so sure. I'm white,. My dad grew up in the only "sundown town" in a county in SE Texas with a politically active LARGE black minority. Even though his school was not integrated, they listened to Houston's KCOH in shop class. He told me all his life how he hated the lamer white versions of songs he heard on KCOH became hits

I you want mixed-race artists, you gotta put your POD in New Orleans, Washington DC, or possibly Galveston. These were the three cities where race mixing was most common.

[tormsen]

Not biracial musicians, biracial people. They simply didn't exist on a wide scale, and the ones that did either passed or were black because of the one drop rule.

So they existed, but they were not recognized as being "bi-racial", but rather black (or they passed as white)?

[The Ubbergeek]

America had a screwed up relation to "races", let's say.

[Plumber]

So they existed, but they were not recognized as being "bi-racial", but rather black (or they passed as white)?
They existed to a very small degree. As Catmo said, New Orleans, DC, and Galveston are pretty much the only places. Interracial marriage was illegal at the time, and a social death knell. In fact, there were so few biracials that the U.S. census did not let you mark more than one race until the 2000 census.

I have been pondering a greater biracial community from that thread a while back with a POD in the 1890s. I could see it with a different Plessy perhaps.

[Horgus]

So they existed, but they were not recognized as being "bi-racial", but rather black (or they passed as white)?

Look at the current mainstream attitude towards Obama.

Has a white mother, and yet for all intents and purposes, he's considered black.

The 'one drop' rule still applies, even in the 21'st century, unfortunately.

[The Ubbergeek]

Look at the current mainstream attitude towards Obama.

Has a white mother, and yet for all intents and purposes, he's considered black.

The 'one drop' rule still applies, even in the 21'st century, unfortunately.

The problem is maybe also it was internalised by the blacks also, both way. the 'paper bag parties' of old I am told, and you have also recently like in a Spike Lee movie, a very pale woman who look quite 'white", yet feels black herself - and threatened by the white woman her hubby see.

[Bureaucromancer]

I have been pondering a greater biracial community from that thread a while back with a POD in the 1890s. I could see it with a different Plessy perhaps.

You might get some very interesting results if you went with an early reconstruction POD. Almost a post war best case kind of thing... I wonder if it might be possible to make the country largely bi racial by the 21st century, never mind creating a significant community.

[CaliBoy1990]

They existed to a very small degree. As Catmo said, New Orleans, DC, and Galveston are pretty much the only places. Interracial marriage was illegal at the time, and a social death knell. In fact, there were so few biracials that the U.S. census did not let you mark more than one race until the 2000 census.

I have been pondering a greater biracial community from that thread a while back with a POD in the 1890s. I could see it with a different Plessy perhaps.

Not in all states. In fact, as far as I know, by 1955, only perhaps a dozen states had still banned interracial marriage{although as many as about 3/4ths of the states had admittedly experimented with these laws, starting in the 1890s.}. And that's probably an overstatement!

This could have been a truly significant issue in the Southeast and perhaps Texas, though.

[GBurch]

Look at the current mainstream attitude towards Obama.

Has a white mother, and yet for all intents and purposes, he's considered black.

The 'one drop' rule still applies, even in the 21'st century, unfortunately.

I can't tell you how many times I've said this since Obama came on the scene. My favorite way to sidle up to the subject is to first bring up the "one drop rule" with someone I know to be an avid Obama supporter, get them to agree with me how racist and backward it was, and then say -- "Isn't it great that Obama is our first black president?"

But on-topic, it wouldn't surprise me at all if at least some of the big "colored stars" of the 50s had a white parent or at least grandparent.

[JimTheB]

If I can just distract y'all from US-centricity for a second - Cliff Richard, Anglo-Indian.

[Thande]

If I can just distract y'all from US-centricity for a second - Cliff Richard, Anglo-Indian.

"Anglo-Indian" in that context means "Briton born to British parents in India" not "part Indian". Besides the US-centricity here is justified, as the point is that rock and roll was born from a fusion of American black and white music styles (R&B and country, to simplify) and represented specifically a breaking down of the barriers between those two communities.

[Theodoric]

Do African-Native Americans count?

[JimTheB]

"Do African-Native Americans count?"

I don't think you can quite squeeze Tina Turner into the 50s, but I'd claim Link Wray as white/native american.

[Catmo]

And we all gotta remember that white father and black mother is preferable to the other way around.

OTOH, we should not always assume that all race mixing in the era of slavery was exploitative relationships between white men and black women. I'm talking to you Thomas Jefferson. Sally was just not a slave,she was your wife's half sister. Isn't that banned in Leviticus?

Many formerly indentured white women took free blacks as husbands. Benjamin Bannaker has a white wife, and she was glad to have so well educated a spouse.

But yeah, the only places race mixing was accepted in the rock and roll era were DC. New Orleans, and Galveston. Jack Johnson was just doing what came naturally when he ran with all those white women.

And you think the controversy is over today? Just search for "BBC white porn" and it's all still there.

[Gregg]

"BBC white porn"

Porn on the BBC?

[Twin City Lines]

And we all gotta remember that white father and black mother is preferable to the other way around.

OTOH, we should not always assume that all race mixing in the era of slavery was exploitative relationships between white men and black women. I'm talking to you Thomas Jefferson. Sally was just not a slave,she was your wife's half sister. Isn't that banned in Leviticus?

Many formerly indentured white women took free blacks as husbands. Benjamin Bannaker has a white wife, and she was glad to have so well educated a spouse.

But yeah, the only places race mixing was accepted in the rock and roll era were DC. New Orleans, and Galveston. Jack Johnson was just doing what came naturally when he ran with all those white women.

And you think the controversy is over today? Just search for "BBC white porn" and it's all still there.

Preferable? Or just more common? And you missed a major place that was reasonably accepting of race mixing in that era: Minnesota. Though it probably wasn't "major" in terms of the music culture....

[Twin City Lines]

Porn on the BBC?

BBC stands for Big Black C***, please don't ask how I know.;)

[The Ubbergeek]

BBC stands for Big Black C***, please don't ask how I know.;)

Porn is an odd thing - on one side, some big names like Heffner helped against the moral right, on the other, it remains... untasty on some things,

Notice how frequently interracial porn is like, nearly ALWAYS Black Guy + White Girl, OR White Guy + Asian Girl. Or big majority at least.

[Mark E.]

Not in all states. In fact, as far as I know, by 1955, only perhaps a dozen states had still banned interracial marriage{although as many as about 3/4ths of the states had admittedly experimented with these laws, starting in the 1890s.}. And that's probably an overstatement!

Loving v. Virginia was ruled in 1967. That year, interracial marriage was still illegal in 16 states, the former slave states plus Oklahoma.

[Mark E.]

I you want mixed-race artists, you gotta put your POD in New Orleans, Washington DC, or possibly Galveston. These were the three cities where race mixing was most common.

A thing to remember is that rock-and-roll music itself started as an "interracial marriage" between country-and-western and rhythm-and-blues, both of which had niche followings in the forties and early fifties.

When the song "Earth Angel" came out at the end of 1954, two versions surfaced. The original version, by far superior, was by the Penguins. But the Penguins were Black, and a cover version by the Crew Cuts (a White Canadian group who scored big with Sh-Boom) was often the choice of segregated radio stations.

Maybe it was a good thing that Todd Storz, the literal inventor of Top 40 radio, moved to New Orleans in 1953, where entertainers were not only allowed to be Black, but expected to be Black.

[Twin City Lines]

Porn is an odd thing - on one side, some big names like Heffner helped against the moral right, on the other, it remains... untasty on some things,

Notice how frequently interracial porn is like, nearly ALWAYS Black Guy + White Girl, OR White Guy + Asian Girl. Or big majority at least.

Notice how frequently interracial relationships (in the USA) are nearly always Black Guy + White Girl or White Guy + Asian, Hispanic, or Native American Girl. I counted exactly 2 Black Guy + Asian Girl and 0 Asian Guy + Black Girl couples in several years of living in Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco, cities where the sheer numbers should have made such more common....

[The Ubbergeek]

Notice how frequently interracial relationships (in the USA) are nearly always Black Guy + White Girl or White Guy + Asian, Hispanic, or Native American Girl. I counted exactly 2 Black Guy + Asian Girl and 0 Asian Guy + Black Girl couples in several years of living in Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco, cities where the sheer numbers should have made such more common....

Good point albeit I never saw any numbers, albeit this aspect of porn had been criticised by 'race activists' as 'racist'.

[Bureaucromancer]

Good point albeit I never saw any numbers, albeit this aspect of porn had been criticised by 'race activists' as 'racist'.

You know, I would actually be really interested to see some real numbers on interracial relationships...

[The Ubbergeek]

You know, I would actually be really interested to see some real numbers on interracial relationships...

Would be interesting indeed.

[The Admiral Hook]

So, just to clarify. If I invent a character (let's assume it's a "passer" although I hate to admit that this is simply to increase his mainstream popularity until his identity is revealed) that is a biracial rock star in the fifties, there are absolutely no cultural, racial, or musical butterflies?

If there are, have at it. I'm thinking a pretty straight forward hybrid of Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis, but maybe on guitar initially (IOTL, it was recommended to Lewis by "industry folk" that he switch to guitar when he initially failed in Nashville).

[The Ubbergeek]

So, just to clarify. If I invent a character (let's assume it's a "passer" although I hate to admit that this is simply to increase his mainstream popularity until his identity is revealed) that is a biracial rock star in the fifties, there are absolutely no cultural, racial, or musical butterflies?

If there are, have at it. I'm thinking a pretty straight forward hybrid of Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis, but maybe on guitar initially (IOTL, it was recommended to Lewis by "industry folk" that he switch to guitar when he initially failed in Nashville).

The dude surely will HAVE to pass for one race ultimatly, for the earlier...

[The Admiral Hook]

The dude surely will HAVE to pass for one race ultimatly, for the earlier...

Anything more productive to add?

[The Ubbergeek]

Anything more productive to add?

It's the Fifties...

[Twin City Lines]

Good point albeit I never saw any numbers, albeit this aspect of porn had been criticised by 'race activists' as 'racist'.
Actually I think the porn industry is missing out on a goldmine: tiny Asian girls getting filled with BBCs as big as their forearms... would be very dramatic!:D

But I think I better get off this topic before I say something stupid....

[Elidor]

There was (and is) a whole genre...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indorock

[Elidor]

Actually I think the porn industry is missing out on a goldmine: tiny Asian girls getting filled with BBCs as big as their forearms... would be very dramatic!:D


done to death

[Elessar267]

There were none because "biracial" really didn't exist, as has been alluded in this thread. You were either black or white. Not both. This attitude, to some extent, still exists today. Both of my paternal grandparents were, by modern definition "biracial" or "multiracial" but, despite my grandmother's very light skin and my grandfather's Spanish roots, both were clearly and explicitly identified as black, and this was in the northern states.

Heck, even my father, who grew up a little later, was clearly identified as "black", until the "Are you black enough?" crap started showing up. Even then, he was not identified as "both," but "neither" and was essentially outcast from both sides.

[Mark E.]

Here is another one about the music.

In 1955, radio mogul Alan Freed convinced Chuck Berry to list him as a co-author of the song "Maybelline" to sort of "whiten" it a little for his New York audience. It is hard to say whether the tactic had any effect, but we all know what Alan Freed's business tactics would do to his career.

[mowque]

In the United States we don't have biracial people. We have white and we have black.