Stalin as leader or reactionary Russia

[Derek Jackson]

WI Lenin's coup had been defeated. I think it likely that there would have been a period of chaos. I also suspect some far right regime, religious, anti semitic and nationalist would have taken over.

I believe that in otl Stalin was not originally a Bolshevic.

Could he have wound up on top,

[I Blame Communism]

Nobody came into the world a Bolsh, but Stalin was an old stalwart and had been a revolutionary activist and political criminal in tsarist Russia for years before world war one. If he's lucky, he won't find himself up a lamp-post.

[Japhy]

As noted Stalin has too long a record being involved with the Revolutionary Left to be able to turn easily. Certainly under the right circumstances its possible but the odds are long. After all Hitler was a Political Commissar during the Bavarian Soviet. But it would most likely require a POD before Stalin ever even got involved with the crime and terror of the underground.

And anyway, the more reactionary forces of the White Movement, even the discarded "Republicans" have plenty of figures who can be as evil or worse then Stalin. And not just that one fellow who took over Mongolia for 20 minutes and thus developed into an annoying cliche.

[Maponus]

Certainly under the right circumstances its possible but the odds are long. After all Hitler was a Political Commissar during the Bavarian Soviet.

He what? :eek:

This was as a spy for the military, right?

[Japhy]

He what? :eek:

This was as a spy for the military, right?

Not under orders or anything like that. Actually he came in 2nd in his Units vote for a commissar and when order was restored started naming names and all that. I'm pretty use this is actually covered in an Episode of Timewatch, I've also read it in a few books. The main contention point over if it actually was him is the voting role spells his name Hittler, but he's not showing up anywhere else.

[Sean Mulligan]

A non Russian couldn't have become the leader of a reactionary Russia.

[Japhy]

A non Russian couldn't have become the leader of a reactionary Russia.

If Georgia is in the Reactionary State I wouldn't say its impossible. But yes that is another check against Uncle Joe.

[Consumerist]

Actually there is a random theory that Stalin was a spy for the Okhrana due to the cells he was a member of using being subject of conveniently timed crackdowns.

Of course if that were true any records proving that were probably destroyed by Stalin for obvious reasons.

[Sean Mulligan]

Actually there is a random theory that Stalin was a spy for the Okhrana due to the cells he was a member of using being subject of conveniently timed crackdowns.

Of course if that were true any records proving that were probably destroyed by Stalin for obvious reasons.

Their was really no evidence for that.

[Japhy]

Their was really no evidence for that.

Certain members of the underground at the time thought there was enough to accuse him of being a mole.

[Urban fox]

Their was really no evidence for that.

On the other hand several high- Bolsheviks in circles Stalin moved in really were Tsarist moles. So chances are his paranoia and natural abilities in back-room/underworld manoeuvring are what saved him not any ‘’special’’ contacts...

[Derek Jackson]

And if it would have been to his advantage maybe the butcher could have perusaded whoever was running the show that he had always been on the side of reactino

[mrmandias]

If Stalin got into a position of power and influence in a White Fascist regime, it would probably be via the secret police. In most regimes, historically the secret police have been the most willing to take turncoats if the individuals involved are usefully amoral and ruthless.

Nobody came into the world a Bolsh, but Stalin was an old stalwart and had been a revolutionary activist and political criminal in tsarist Russia for years before world war one. If he's lucky, he won't find himself up a lamp-post.

[Snake Featherston]

A non Russian couldn't have become the leader of a reactionary Russia.

I think that Catherine the Great might disagree with you on that one. :)

[Space Oddity]

And if it would have been to his advantage maybe the butcher could have perusaded whoever was running the show that he had always been on the side of reactino

Thing is--he wouldn't have. Stalin REALLY did believe in the Revolution, and if reactionaries took over, he'd be fighting them tooth and nail.

[Shawn Endresen]

Reactionary, White Russia? Stalin won't be part of that, or upon taking over, it ceases to be White. An SR/Black Russia? Possibly. He doesn't have the temperament or appearance, and possibly not the charisma, to win elections, though.

If the Bolshie coup fails, you probably get an SR/Black Russia rather than a White one, which Stalin won't be terribly interested in joining but won't feel an urgent need (or ability) to kick over. So he falls back on old habits of thievery, extortion and smuggling. Pretty soon he's Russia's answer to "Lucky" Luciano or Al Capone, the actual power running things in Georgia, Abkazia, Ukraine and Belarus, without strong inroads in Russia proper...and just possibly, when the Depression causes a government failure in Russia, he'll be the one in a position to pick up the pieces.

[LeoXiao]

I think it would be interesting to see Stalin as the ruthless leader of some minor nation, perhaps an independent Transcaucasia.

[Wendell]

I think it would be interesting to see Stalin as the ruthless leader of some minor nation, perhaps an independent Transcaucasia.

Indeed, or that of a Georgia that somehow dominates Transcaucasia.