Sweden A Scandinavian power

[chris N]

Sweden has played a role in the History of Europe. It was one of the Great Powers of Europe up until the Great Northern War. In our time line The Swedish and Russian Empires clashed during that conflict and a young Russian ruler managed to come out on top. Peter was able to build his city on the Baltic and slowly over the centuries Russian power emerged. Sweden's influence in Russia receded. With the Napoleonic Wars the Swedes lost their hold on Finland and were rewarded with Norway as compensation when Denmark happen to be on the losing side with France during the war.
But suppose that things were not so victorious for Peter during the Great Northern War . Instead the Swedish side was able to create a stalemate.
Sweden retained its Empire in the North.
The 19th Century saw additional clashes but there was never enough of a crushing defeat by won side against the other.
As alliances began to take shape during the latter part of the 19th Century it became clear that two alliance systems were forming and a question was emerging as to which side would Sweden join. Russia was Hostile to it and Germany friendly but then Sweden had had good relations with Great Britain during the 19th Century.
Thus Sweden as the most industrial of the Scandinavian Nations was left in a state of attempting to walk the find line.

[chris N]

With the start of the 20th Century things were getting to be more difficult for Sweden. It would seem that the country despite have a greater population and more territory than in Our time line faced a lot of the same problems. The country simply did not have the resources to build and maintain a large military establishment. It had developed the capacity to produce some high quality weapons and was also the most Industrial of the Scandinavian nations. Relations with Norway and Denmark had improved a great deal in the latter 19th Century. The Danish and Norwegian Monarch were Godparents for his son. Still it appeared that neither nation was eager to join with Sweden in a Northern alliance that might suck it into a war with the Russians to the East.
Sweden's relations with Great Britain remained friendly but it would appear that they were moving toward an alliance with France. That was a problem as France had allied itself with the Russians in an effort to stand an excellent chance in a war with Germany.
The Germans had an alliance with Austria-Hungary and to that was added Italy. The Italians were considered to be an odd partner as they had claims on the Territory of the Austro-Hungarian Empire but recently the Italians had felt that the French were a threat to their plans for an Empire in the continent of Africa.
Many in Sweden watch as one crisis after another broke out at the start of the Century. There was a sigh of relief when none of them turned into a wider conflict. The Sweds did find the Balkan war that had just ended to be disturbing. None of the Nations that had been involved was happy with the result. That meant that the Serbs, Greeks, Bukgarians and Albanians as Well as the Turks were upset.
In the Ottoman Empire the Balkan Wars had resulted in the loss of territory so that it had only a tiny foothold still on the European Mainland. There the reformers had taken control of the military and had turned to Germany and Great Britain to help modernize it. Yet once again the Ottoman Empire saw that the threat to theit Empire was More from the Russians to the North.
Sweden intelligence service was well aware that the Russian Czar desired to gabble the Lands that his ancestor Peter had once coveted.

[Mirza Khan]

Wrong board, mate. Needs to go in pre-1900

[chris N]

Actually no this is the correct board as what I gave was background in the first posting and the second posting is in the 20th Century with the Balkan wars of the early part of that century and the forming of the alliance systems in Europe. What this will lead to is the First World War and Swedens possible role in it due to a perceived threat to it from the east.

[ThomasTheviking]

IOT have Sweden compete with the Great powers, you will need to beef up the population figures....even if the Swedes could keep Russia at bay initially....there is to big a discrepancy in manpower.

Furthermore you will always have Denmark and Norway waiting to exploit a weakened Sweden engaged elsewhere (As happened during the Great Northern War)...but this is ofcourse Alternate History :)....so everything is possible...but I agree you proberly have to start earlier.....perhaps uniting the Nordic countries under Swedish rule.....which will be different, hence Denmark was the dominant power in the North up to around 1600.

[Grimm Reaper]

If Sweden kept Finland then Denmark will have been allowed to keep Norway following the Napoleonic Wars and Sweden's position as the most powerful Scandinavian country will be far less clear.

Given that Sweden's leaders in the 1600s and early 1700s appeared oblivious to the very concept of not constantly increasing Sweden's list of enemies the odds of Sweden not losing the Baltic territories coveted by Russia are extremely low. With Russia, Poland, Denmark, Prussia, Holland, England and more as enemies it's almost more impressive that Sweden had anything(Finland, Pomerania) left to lose during the Napoleonic Wars.

[chris N]

Sweden had had a population growth spur during the latter part of the 19th century. It had also seen a lot of ethnic Scandinavian leave Russia as a result of the Great Northern war and resettle in Swedish territory.
Still while Sweden and its Imperial territory gave it a larger population than the Sweden in our time line it still was facing a grave threat from the east.
Sweden had lost the Latvian territory but had held on to most of its eastern lands.
Knowing that it did not have the manpower to match the Russians soldier for soldier it attempted to equip its military with the best weapons that it could produce. Sweden had been lucky to have played its card right during the last century. Britain fear of the Russian Bear and its threat to the crown Jewel India had given the Swedes some help. But the world was changing and the threat was greater.
Sweden attempted to convince its fellow Scandinavians to join them in an alliance. Together they could weather the storm that was coming to Europe. Should that fail the Swedish Imperial government would have to see what options it would have.

[Reichenfaust]

Swedish conquest of Norway, and Denmark, is the only way I can see Sweden Being a Great power, and claiming Iceland, and Greenland along with it. Also about manpower, there is no way Sweden can maintain a presence like this without clashing with Russia. Sweden would need more industry, a greater manpower base, and a modern fleet to defend it's massive coastal territory.

[ThomasTheviking]

Swedish conquest of Norway, and Denmark, is the only way I can see Sweden Being a Great power, and claiming Iceland, and Greenland along with it. Also about manpower, there is no way Sweden can maintain a presence like this without clashing with Russia. Sweden would need more industry, a greater manpower base, and a modern fleet to defend it's massive coastal territory.

Conquest is of course one way to go. But an all beneficiary alliance is more preferred, from the Swedish poit of view. Conquering Denmark and Norway is possible....but will result in numerous rebellions. Creating a Swedish led alliance (Like the Kalmar union, just not with Denmark in command) and somehow making all the countries loyal to the higher purpose of "Nordicism" would be the way....sort of a nordic empire ruled from Stockholm....But the POD proberly has to start in the viking period.

[azander12]

Conquest is of course one way to go. But an all beneficiary alliance is more preferred, from the Swedish poit of view. Conquering Denmark and Norway is possible....but will result in numerous rebellions. Creating a Swedish led alliance (Like the Kalmar union, just not with Denmark in command) and somehow making all the countries loyal to the higher purpose of "Nordicism" would be the way....sort of a nordic empire ruled from Stockholm....But the POD proberly has to start in the viking period.

Well, either that, or you could insert a pan-Nordic intellectual/political movement into history. I don't really know anything about Scandinavia, but is it possible that sometime in the late 1800s or early 1900s a Nordicist movement would form? It would probably by somewhat neo-pagan (or at least very religiously Protestant), quasi-fascist, and irredentist and wanting to regain control over "Nordic" areas like the Shetley and Faroe Islands, Karelia, Ingria, possibly the Baltic states and maybe even Newfoundland. It could lead to some sort of confederation of Scandinavian states, with Sweden as the most powerful taking the lead.

[Grimm Reaper]

A scenario where Sweden decides to conquer Denmark/Norway and invade Russian, Canadian and British territory will involve interesting changes but a powerful Sweden won't be one of them.

A surviving Sweden may not be one of them.

[chris N]

Sweden's King invited his fellow Scandinavian Monarchs and their Prime Ministers to Sweden for a meeting. Sweden's relations with fellow Scandinavians had been improving. It was known that the Danes were quite nervous about Germany and had been ever since the conflict with Prussia and Austria. Norway had once been an objective of Sweden but they had given up that Idea in the 19th century. Norway had admiration for the Kaiser as he had come to their aid in a time of a great disaster. The Kaiser had help to rebuild a Norwegian city but it had no desire to get involved in a European war.
The Swedish King once again appealed to his fellow Scandinavians to prove that there was another way. He proposed a Scandinavian Common Market and it appeared that the idea was beginning to have some appeal.

[Reichenfaust]

Sweden's King invited his fellow Scandinavian Monarchs and their Prime Ministers to Sweden for a meeting. Sweden's relations with fellow Scandinavians had been improving. It was known that the Danes were quite nervous about Germany and had been ever since the conflict with Prussia and Austria. Norway had once been an objective of Sweden but they had given up that Idea in the 19th century. Norway had admiration for the Kaiser as he had come to their aid in a time of a great disaster. The Kaiser had help to rebuild a Norwegian city but it had no desire to get involved in a European war.
The Swedish King once again appealed to his fellow Scandinavians to prove that there was another way. He proposed a Scandinavian Common Market and it appeared that the idea was beginning to have some appeal.

Not a bad start for an alliance start. Dates would be appreciated, but i can roughly guess this is right before the Great War.

[chris N]

The Talks were held in the spring of 1912. When Russian troops briefly landed on Norway's island in the North the Norwegian Government finally saw the wisdom of banding together. Denmark finally saw the wisdom of a Scandinavian alliance and as a first step the Common Market treaty was signed. It was followed in June 1912 by the Defensive Alliance treaty. The treaty only bound the members if any of them was attacked by an outside power.

[yourworstnightmare]

1. One problem Sweden had during the Great Nordic War was that EVERYONE ganged up on them. Sweden had to fight Russia, Denmark- Norway, Brandeburg- Prussia, Saxony, Poland- Lithuania and Hannover all at once. Sweden had overstretched and gained too many enemies. Peter the Great's Russia was indeed a threat, but Sweden didn't fall on the Russian threat alone, but on the fact that she had too many enemies and couldn't fight them all at once.

2. You have a PoD in the Great Nordic War in the 18th Century, and you have almost no other butterflies than the Swedish Empire survived? This is quite ASB. A surviving Swedish Empire would create many butterflies. All the Great Powers would have behaved very differently if there had been a Greater Sweden. There would probably had been no Polish partitions if the Russian haven't Estonia and Livonia (or a very different partition). Sweden would probably have had a strong position in the Napoleonic Wars (if they even happened), and Sweden might have joined Denmark or France in the wars against Prussia to stop a German unification (remember, Sweden did hold German lands). No, a surviving Swedish Empire would have influenced the 18th and 19th century a lot, and created many butterflies.

[chris N]

In all likely hood Sweden would have probably emerged from the great Northern war with its position in Germany greatly diminished,but it is likely that the Danes and Norwegians could be held in check.

[yourworstnightmare]

Yes, but if Russia is defeated, and Sweden don't lose Estonia and Livonia the history of Eastern Europe need to be rewritten. The Swedes even held Ingria before the war, and if Sweden manage to hold on to Ingria, well, no St. Petersburg.

[ThomasTheviking]

Well, either that, or you could insert a pan-Nordic intellectual/political movement into history. I don't really know anything about Scandinavia, but is it possible that sometime in the late 1800s or early 1900s a Nordicist movement would form? It would probably by somewhat neo-pagan (or at least very religiously Protestant), quasi-fascist, and irredentist and wanting to regain control over "Nordic" areas like the Shetley and Faroe Islands, Karelia, Ingria, possibly the Baltic states and maybe even Newfoundland. It could lead to some sort of confederation of Scandinavian states, with Sweden as the most powerful taking the lead.

Being Scandinavian.....I would say that this is to late in time. There was a nordic movement going around in the late half of the 18th century....but mostly in a "romantic - historical" way focusing on the common background of the Nordic countries. Eventhough Norway was officially part of Sweden until 1905, three distinct national characters have evolved at this stage.....which it why I have been argueing that the POD has to be a lot earlier.

[ThomasTheviking]

Sweden's King invited his fellow Scandinavian Monarchs and their Prime Ministers to Sweden for a meeting. Sweden's relations with fellow Scandinavians had been improving. It was known that the Danes were quite nervous about Germany and had been ever since the conflict with Prussia and Austria. Norway had once been an objective of Sweden but they had given up that Idea in the 19th century. Norway had admiration for the Kaiser as he had come to their aid in a time of a great disaster. The Kaiser had help to rebuild a Norwegian city but it had no desire to get involved in a European war.
The Swedish King once again appealed to his fellow Scandinavians to prove that there was another way. He proposed a Scandinavian Common Market and it appeared that the idea was beginning to have some appeal.

Close Nordic cooperation on economic, military and judicial issues has happened....and plausible also at an early stage. But (Like the EU) there is a long way to go, for this to transform itself into a united state, under Swedish dominance.

[chris N]

The New Scandinavian Trade Agreement was the first step in an attempt to improve trade between the Scandinavian countries thus making it easier to compete with the other European countries, It was the first step toward a possible unification of the countries but it was one that had to be taken with great care.
If the Trade agreement had been the easy part the Defense Treaty that was finally signed in Oslo in June of 1912 was the one that caused a lot of concern. Sweden had to deal with a fear that the other two countries were being dragged into the prospect of endless wars. The inserting of the clause that the member states were only bound together if one member was attacked by an outside country hlped to reassure the Danes and the Norwegians that Sweden was not going to start a war with Russia and drag them into it.
Still when the Czarist forces began eying Norway's Islands to the far north it became clear to the Norwegians that only in unity could they hope to dear with the Russian Bear. Once again Sweden had to tread carefully in this matter. A suggestion for the creation of a joint planning staff was approved and a proposal by Sweden to war toward co-operation on weapons development met with some approval. Still Sweden's King was very concern that Europe appeared to be all too close to another war.
One of the Weapons that interested the Swedes was the Danish made Light Machine gun. It expressed an interest in acquiring then for the Swedish Army and suggested that it would be wise if the weapon was adopted by all three members.

[chris N]

The Joint Military Committee was organized with representatives coming from The Royal Swedish Army, Royal Swedish Navy, The (Tiny) Royal Swedish Flying , Royal Danish Army, Royal Danish Navy, Royal Norwegian Army and Navy. Headquarters was set in Southern Sweden. Each country provided some of the staff and Sweden also provided the building and the telephone links.
Eah of the countries were operating dreadnaught Battleships or coastal defense ships. The Swedish Government was considering building a battleship that would be able to operate outside of the Baltic waters. It was also suggesting that the three navies adopt similar guns for their destroyers and cruisers.

[chris N]

Denmark was happy that its light machine gun had now been adopted by the alliance as its standard weapon for all three countries armies. As aresult a proposed sale of the weapons to Russia was rejected. The Defense planning committee was now looking at a standardization of rifle caliber by all three countries as a step in the right direction. There were also trials of artillery to see if there was some way that a standard could be made.
A decision to build a dreadnought was running into a problem that faced a lot of nations where to find the money to pay for it. A large part of Sweden's defense budget was spent on maintaining a large military manning the defenses of Finland and Estonia. Over the part 200 years the Imperial Swedish government had spent a considerable amount of money on fortifications and the defense of its Eastern border. The result was there was not a lot of money left to build a very large navy. Better relations with its Scandinavian neighbors and saving had allowed the Swedish government to free some money up.
The Navy would like to have one of the German designed Konig class battleships . the Swedish ship building industry was not sure that they could build so large a ship but with some help they thought that it might be possible.

[chris N]

A decision was made to name the new Battleship Kalmar after the alliance set up by Queen Margarete in medevil time. All of the Monarchs were present for the laying of the Keel. Everythig was made to show this as a joint effort by the three Scandinavian countries.

[chris N]

It appeared that relations between the three Scandinavian powers were improving but things had a long way to go before the alliance really firmed up. Sweden helped negotiate problems that Denmark had with Germany. In southern Sweden the Military Working group was busy at work to make co-operation a reality. it was also making some suggestions that could lead to all three countries having a better equipped military at less cost.
Meanwhile it would appear that events that triggered the First World War in Our Time Line were at work in this one. It would appear that ultra nationalist Serbs were about to attempt the same things in the name of Greater Serbia.

[Chengar Qordath]

Conquest is of course one way to go. But an all beneficiary alliance is more preferred, from the Swedish poit of view. Conquering Denmark and Norway is possible....but will result in numerous rebellions. Creating a Swedish led alliance (Like the Kalmar union, just not with Denmark in command) and somehow making all the countries loyal to the higher purpose of "Nordicism" would be the way....sort of a nordic empire ruled from Stockholm....But the POD proberly has to start in the viking period.

A more successful Scandinavism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-scandinavia) movement would certainly seem to fit the bill. Assuming some sort of conflict roughly paralleling World War I still happens with a PoD in the 1860's (the highwater mark of the Scandinavist movement, so the logical place for a PoD) the hyper-nationalists might decide this would be a good time to reclaim the old Swedish Empire from Russia,

[ThomasTheviking]

A more successful Scandinavism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-scandinavia) movement would certainly seem to fit the bill. Assuming some sort of conflict roughly paralleling World War I still happens with a PoD in the 1860's (the highwater mark of the Scandinavist movement, so the logical place for a PoD) the hyper-nationalists might decide this would be a good time to reclaim the old Swedish Empire from Russia,

Well if you think so.....in the 1860'es Denmark was at war with Germany....so you now see this war happening, with Denmark as part of a Greater Scandinavia? IN OTL Swedish and Norwegian volunteers helped Denmark....but the Governmenst (Sweden and Norway in a personel union) had absolutely no desire in becoming involved.

[ThomasTheviking]

It appeared that relations between the three Scandinavian powers were improving but things had a long way to go before the alliance really firmed up. Sweden helped negotiate problems that Denmark had with Germany. In southern Sweden the Military Working group was busy at work to make co-operation a reality. it was also making some suggestions that could lead to all three countries having a better equipped military at less cost.
Meanwhile it would appear that events that triggered the First World War in Our Time Line were at work in this one. It would appear that ultra nationalist Serbs were about to attempt the same things in the name of Greater Serbia.

Just to sum up.....I guess this has now sort of developed into an ATL? What year are we in now?

[yourworstnightmare]

Just to sum up.....I guess this has now sort of developed into an ATL? What year are we in now?
Year of the Magic Unicorn, I think.

[Chengar Qordath]

Well if you think so.....in the 1860'es Denmark was at war with Germany....so you now see this war happening, with Denmark as part of a Greater Scandinavia? IN OTL Swedish and Norwegian volunteers helped Denmark....but the Governmenst (Sweden and Norway in a personel union) had absolutely no desire in becoming involved.

Which would probably where the PoD is needed; OTL, it was the non-involvement of the Swedish-Norwegian government that basically killed Scandinavism as a significant political movement.

[chris N]

I can see the point about Norway and Sweden becoming involved itn the Wat between Denmark and Prussia and Austria- Hungary. But at the same time one must weigh the risk involved. By joining in they risked a war with two of the largest Military powers on the Mainland of Europe. Manpower wise the Austro-Prussian Force would have an incredible manpower advantage.
Only at sea would the Scandinavians have the advantage as Prussia's navy was tiny and Austria's was too far away.
Perhaps convincing the British and the French to become involved might be a way for Sweden to tilt the balance in Denmark's favor but then France was involved in its Mexican Adventure, colonial expansion in Africa and Italy.Great Britain had only just concluded a war with Russia, The Indian Mutiny and
China as well as the American Civil War.

Returning to the situation it is now the end of 1913. While there is peace it is clear to some that rising tensions between the two major alliance systems makes a war increasingly more possible. Despite a tilt toward German caused by Sweden's precipitation of a serious threat from Russia most in the Government desire to avoid the War and see the new alliance as its only hope.

[yourworstnightmare]

Which would probably where the PoD is needed; OTL, it was the non-involvement of the Swedish-Norwegian government that basically killed Scandinavism as a significant political movement.
A PoD in the 1860s are much more plausible than a Great Northern War PoD. A PoD in the Great Northern War would create so many butterflies (like Russia remaining weak, Sweden remaining a Great Power, which in turn influence the whole 18th and 19th century). In the 1860s Russia was already a Great Power, Sweden and Norway were in a Personal Union, Germany was about to unify, a successful Scandinavism movement would at this point would not cause an as big butterfly storm.

[Chengar Qordath]

A PoD in the 1860s are much more plausible than a Great Northern War PoD. A PoD in the Great Northern War would create so many butterflies (like Russia remaining weak, Sweden remaining a Great Power, which in turn influence the whole 18th and 19th century). In the 1860s Russia was already a Great Power, Sweden and Norway were in a Personal Union, Germany was about to unify, a successful Scandinavism movement would at this point would not cause an as big butterfly storm.

I agree; it also helps that the Schleswig War is probably one of the less butterfly-prone conflicts; nobody else was particularly interested in getting involved in the war, and the only long term consequence outside its involvement in the German Unification was a bit of resentment on Denmark's part over the Danish population of Schleswig. Even that could be mollified if Swedish intervention is enough to let Denmark hold onto the mostly danish bits of Schleswig (which Prussia and Austria did not really want all that badly anyway). I doubt it would derail the German Unification.

It also helps that, OTL, one of the main consequences of the Second Schleswig War was that in convinced Denmark it couldn't afford to be a player in the great power game. Combine that with intervention by Sweden-Norway, and it gets quite plausible that the Danes would see a Scandinavian union as the way to remain a significant power.

[chris N]

Fair enough. Lets say that Sweden did use its influence to allow Denmark to keep the part of the disputed territory that was overwhelmingly Danish. It would make sense and it would make for better relations between Sweden and Denmark. It would also probably lead to less bad feelings between the future German state and Denmark.
I am willing to modify things somewhat but I have no desire for the Great Northern War to end as it did. Thus in this time line Sweden will retain Finland and Denmark Norway.
Remember up until the end of the Napoleonic wars Sweden retained Finland. It is possible that the British and Prussian might block the Russian from getting Finland at the Treaty of Vienna.

[yourworstnightmare]

Don't think Prussia would do much at Vienna. They wanted good relations with Russia, and even ceded some Polish territory to Russia in exchange for the right to annex more territory in Germany. Also everyone thought Sweden didn't need Finland since they gor Norway.

[ThomasTheviking]

I can see the point about Norway and Sweden becoming involved itn the Wat between Denmark and Prussia and Austria- Hungary. But at the same time one must weigh the risk involved. By joining in they risked a war with two of the largest Military powers on the Mainland of Europe. Manpower wise the Austro-Prussian Force would have an incredible manpower advantage.
Only at sea would the Scandinavians have the advantage as Prussia's navy was tiny and Austria's was too far away.
Perhaps convincing the British and the French to become involved might be a way for Sweden to tilt the balance in Denmark's favor but then France was involved in its Mexican Adventure, colonial expansion in Africa and Italy.Great Britain had only just concluded a war with Russia, The Indian Mutiny and
China as well as the American Civil War.

Returning to the situation it is now the end of 1913. While there is peace it is clear to some that rising tensions between the two major alliance systems makes a war increasingly more possible. Despite a tilt toward German caused by Sweden's precipitation of a serious threat from Russia most in the Government desire to avoid the War and see the new alliance as its only hope.

Or maybe just stick to neutrality as IOTL, and get rich dealing with both warring factions ;).

[ThomasTheviking]

[QUOTE=chris N;4703445]I can see the point about Norway and Sweden becoming involved itn the Wat between Denmark and Prussia and Austria- Hungary. But at the same time one must weigh the risk involved. By joining in they risked a war with two of the largest Military powers on the Mainland of Europe. Manpower wise the Austro-Prussian Force would have an incredible manpower advantage.
Only at sea would the Scandinavians have the advantage as Prussia's navy was tiny and Austria's was too far away.
Perhaps convincing the British and the French to become involved might be a way for Sweden to tilt the balance in Denmark's favor but then France was involved in its Mexican Adventure, colonial expansion in Africa and Italy.Great Britain had only just concluded a war with Russia, The Indian Mutiny and
China as well as the American Civil War.

True regarding the navy.....Denmark alone actually had domination of the sea in 1864, and actually defeated the navies of austria and Prussia. But on land even the combined scandinavian armies would be defeated, and who knows since a Greater Scandinavia is a bigger threath, than just Denmark alone, all of Jutland might be lost in 1864, in stead af just Schleswig.

[chris N]

Thomas I would tend to agree with you. Regarding the Scandinavians fighting the Prussians and Austrians. Only chance of winning would be to involve another great power.
As regards Finland it will stay part of Sweden and Norway part of Denmark. I might budge on Estonia and on the land where St Petersburg was built but that's it.

[Chengar Qordath]

Germany taking anything outside of Schleswig-Holstein wouldn't work, since it would go completely against the Austro-Prussian causus belli, and it would add non-Germans to Germany, which Bismarck didn't want. The only reason he took north Schleswig was due to pre-existing treaties making it problematic to split Schlewig up (and even then he wanted a plebiscite in the area).

So, taking any more territory than OTL would be utterly against every single stated Prussian interest; it would needlessly provoke the other great powers, destroy the legitimacy of the German cause in the war, permenantly antagonize Scandinavia, and add a large non-German population to Bismarck's planned German state. I think people are treating international politics too much like a game of Risk.

It also bears mentioning that, judging by OTL, the Austro-Prussians don't want to go to full mobilization and fight a long, drawn-out war over Schleswig-Holstein.

[Reichenfaust]

I think people are treating international politics too much like a game of Risk..


Or a 19th century axis and allies. You cannot take a war, and see what you would do in the outcome if that battle/war was won. It was not your victory and the character fighting it would have his/her reason. You have to consider the political views and ramifications of the time of what leaders like Bismarck have when they go into a war. Their goals are already established. If an opportunity presents itself take it, but don't add to existing problems. Like Chengar said, all Bismarck wanted was to unify Germany only. Controlling Germany and all the bastard "Adel" nobles within the dissolved HRE was a massive feat alone, and he most certainly did not need any other people to add to the problems he faced when he unified Germany.

Now on a Scandinavian alliance/Swedish great power. This is very likely, if everyone had not kicked the crap out of Sweden in the Northern war. A war that is limited to fighting Russia, and maintaining the finland and estonian territories with support from denmark/norway can happen with the right POD, and good storyline. This would likely see a German, Scandinavian, and Austrian Alliance. Austria would be overjoyed once Denmark had lost Schleiswig to Germany to have Scandinavia as an ally, for one Reason. The Russian bear may be bloodied and not have some of its territories but it is a huge threat. Austria would love to have another nation for Russia to focus its territorial ambitions on, because it might keep them the hell outta the balkans. Anyway just my thoughts.

[yourworstnightmare]

But with a Great Northern War PoD this story fails in plausibility. Had Sweden won the Great Northern War, she would have kept Livonia, Estonia, Ingria, Kexholm and her German holdings. Russia would not have become a great power, there would have been no partition of Poland. The political map of the 18th and 19th century would have been completely different, making anything resembling our 20th century completely ASB.

[chris N]

It seems that some people keep getting stuck with the Great Northern War.
Let me see if I can put this to rest once and for all. Let us suppose that Sweden 's Warrior King does not get sucked into a fight deep in Russia. Sweden suffers some loses including its lands in Germany. Peter The Great fails to win as great a victory as he did in OTL. He does win some land allowing him to build St Petersburg but the war is more of a draw that an overwhelming victory for the Russians. Sweden makes peace with its fellow Scandinavians and things settle down.
Sweden holds onto Finland and strengthens its defenses. It spends most of the remaining 18th Century playing the various European Powers off against Russia. I would have it that Sweden avoids losing Finland to Russia during the Napoleonic Wars.
Of course there is always the possibility that if it did it might regain it during the Crimean War when Britain and France wanted to open a second front in the Baltic.

[ThomasTheviking]

Germany taking anything outside of Schleswig-Holstein wouldn't work, since it would go completely against the Austro-Prussian causus belli, and it would add non-Germans to Germany, which Bismarck didn't want. The only reason he took north Schleswig was due to pre-existing treaties making it problematic to split Schlewig up (and even then he wanted a plebiscite in the area).

So, taking any more territory than OTL would be utterly against every single stated Prussian interest; it would needlessly provoke the other great powers, destroy the legitimacy of the German cause in the war, permenantly antagonize Scandinavia, and add a large non-German population to Bismarck's planned German state. I think people are treating international politics too much like a game of Risk.

It also bears mentioning that, judging by OTL, the Austro-Prussians don't want to go to full mobilization and fight a long, drawn-out war over Schleswig-Holstein.

The occupation of Jutland is only seen as a way to end a prolonged war with Greater Scandinavia, IOT force Scandinavia into a peace agreement as IOTL.

Since the casus belli was to unite Schleswig-Holstein in the Greater Germany, why do you then get the idea that they (Austria - Germany) is not ready to fight a prolonged war? Isn't that a contradiction?

[ThomasTheviking]

Thomas I would tend to agree with you. Regarding the Scandinavians fighting the Prussians and Austrians. Only chance of winning would be to involve another great power.
As regards Finland it will stay part of Sweden and Norway part of Denmark. I might budge on Estonia and on the land where St Petersburg was built but that's it.

A second option could of course be an alliance between Scandinavia and Germany....But the price would be steep for the Germans....to leave Schleswig-Holstein alone....And the prize will be Scandinavian support for upcoming campaigns against France..and later on Russia.

Sorry to keep holding the TL back....you earlier mentioned we were now in 1913...so feel free to continue, and I will leave the 1860'es alone :D.

[Reichenfaust]

I tend to agree with theviking on this one. Sweden giving up its german provinces in order to have prussia/germany as an ally against russia is a great idea. Austria would be less disgruntled about a German union without them, if they have someone they can bounce russia off of. Like Sweden/Scandinavia. Russia would not just worry about the balkans, and the ottomans, but they would have to defend the north as well. This would mean they would have 4 Great Powers! on her borders, if you can consider the ottomans still a great power. Swedish alliance to the CP is a great idea.

[chris N]

Let me address the 1860's once and for all. I find the idea of Sweden doing everything that it could to modify the German land grab is a good one. It would have made a lot of sense for the Prussians and Austrians to allow Denmark to keep the parts of the provenience that was over overwhelmingly Danish.

Now as 1913 drew to a close the governments of Sweden, Denmark and Norway all seemed to be moving in the same direction. All three nations were co-operating with regards to weapons. Denmark's and Sweden's Arms industries had received a great boost as a result of that. Sweden and Denmark had also started to fortify their islands in the Eastern Baltic.

Sweden had held talks with the Austrians and the Germans with regard to the threat from the east. Sweden's Military attache in Vienna was concern that things seemed to be heating up in Bosnia and was not sure if the Austrians would be able to deal with any trouble. The Scandinavian diplomats in Paris were also of the opinion that France seemed to be more than ever determined to recover its lost territory even if it could trigger a war that might bring ruin to everyone.

[Chengar Qordath]

The occupation of Jutland is only seen as a way to end a prolonged war with Greater Scandinavia, IOT force Scandinavia into a peace agreement as IOTL.
Military occupation in the course of the war for negotiating leverage is a very different thing from annexation.

Since the casus belli was to unite Schleswig-Holstein in the Greater Germany, why do you then get the idea that they (Austria - Germany) is not ready to fight a prolonged war? Isn't that a contradiction?
Just compare the scale of the Austrian and Prussian mobilization during the Second Schleswig War, to the scale of the mobilization for the Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian wars. The German Confederation only put around 81,000 soldiers in the field, which was a fraction of their total army strength. If the Austrians and Prussians wanted an all-out war, they would have initiated an all-out mobilization, as happened in 1866 and 1870.

[ThomasTheviking]

Just compare the scale of the Austrian and Prussian mobilization during the Second Schleswig War, to the scale of the mobilization for the Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian wars. The German Confederation only put around 81,000 soldiers in the field, which was a fraction of their total army strength. If the Austrians and Prussians wanted an all-out war, they would have initiated an all-out mobilization, as happened in 1866 and 1870.[/QUOTE]

Or maybe they just thought that 81000 was sufficient.....which it was, hence Denmark could only muster around 40000! :rolleyes:

Nothing would have prevented them for mobilizing more troops, had Denmark had more "luck", or if Sweden-Norway had decided to intervene. Simple German calculation, not to use more troops than necessary.

[chris N]

Swedish and Finnish Soldiers patrolled the border. It had been some time since the last time the Finnish soldiers of the Royal Swedish Army had had to engage the Russians in combat. It would appear that the Kaiser was going to pay a visit to the Czar in the late spring. That gave the Swedish Government some hope that peace might hold. The German Government had informed the Swedish Government that the Kaiser would be paying a visit to the Finnish Provincial capital.
In the Danish capital a man in a business suit landed by ferry. it was clear from the way that he walked that he was uneasy in the civilian dress. He was greeted by several Danish officials and whisked off in an official vehicle. It would latter turn out that he was an officer in the Royal Swedish Army's Intelligence service.

[ThomasTheviking]

Swedish and Finnish Soldiers patrolled the border. It had been some time since the last time the Finnish soldiers of the Royal Swedish Army had had to engage the Russians in combat. It would appear that the Kaiser was going to pay a visit to the Czar in the late spring. That gave the Swedish Government some hope that peace might hold. The German Government had informed the Swedish Government that the Kaiser would be paying a visit to the Finnish Provincial capital.
In the Danish capital a man in a business suit landed by ferry. it was clear from the way that he walked that he was uneasy in the civilian dress. He was greeted by several Danish officials and whisked off in an official vehicle. It would latter turn out that he was an officer in the Royal Swedish Army's Intelligence service.

So it looks like that Scandinavia joins the Central Powers....but with what aim?

To get some of Swedens' old Eastern territories back...or to eliminate the supposed Russin threat?

[yourworstnightmare]

So it looks like that Scandinavia joins the Central Powers....but with what aim?

To get some of Swedens' old Eastern territories back...or to eliminate the supposed Russin threat?
I don't really get it. If Sweden has Finland, why would she want to fight Russia?

[ThomasTheviking]

I don't really get it. If Sweden has Finland, why would she want to fight Russia?

I have some troubles with that one also....But I am sure that Chris will elaborate on it.

[chris N]

Stockholm : The Swedish Foreign Ministry was puzzled by the Notice that the Kaiser would like to visit the Finnish Provincial Capital but since Sweden was receiving German assistance in building its battleship the visit was not objected to. Sweden had a lot of mistrust of its neighbor to the East so it wanted to maintain "friendly relations with Germany and Austria Hungary".
Te Royal Swedish Army's Swedish and Finnish troops patrolled the border to make sure that no Russians were infiltrating across the border and that there was no surprise attack.
While Sweden's Sympathy was with the Central Powers it had no intention of getting involved in any war. Its treaty with Denmark and Norway would make that a real problem and Sweden wanted to truly bring the Scandinavian countries together.
Still there were those in the Swedish Empire that desired to recover lost territories just as there were those in Russia that wanted to push the Empires borders further to the west.
Sweden had just started to build an air force. It had 6 planes and another 6 were on order. It was making it the only one of the Scandinavians to have the makings of an air Force and it expressed a willingness to train Danish and NorNorwegian pilots and ground crew.

Meanwhile there were reports of some attacks on Austrian post in Bosnia and talk that the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne was going there this summer to inspect the troops.

[Reichenfaust]

So... Sweden does not have estonia, or the Baltics? With Swedish support and an inclination to fight Russia first, the Germans might avoid the "rape of belgium" fiasco, and go for Russia first. Swedish Karelia anyone?

[chris N]

Sweden does have a lot of problems with Russia that date back to the Great Northern War. It has lost a lot of territory to Russian expansionism and there are some that would like nothing better than to give the Russians a bloody eye and recover territory that was Historically part of the Swedish Empire. However its current treaty with its fellow Scandinavians is defensive in nature thus only if Sweden is attacked would Norway and Denmark join in.

[ThomasTheviking]

Sweden does have a lot of problems with Russia that date back to the Great Northern War. It has lost a lot of territory to Russian expansionism and there are some that would like nothing better than to give the Russians a bloody eye and recover territory that was Historically part of the Swedish Empire. However its current treaty with its fellow Scandinavians is defensive in nature thus only if Sweden is attacked would Norway and Denmark join in.

But what can Denmark and Norway do to aid Sweden-Finland?

Their combinded navies might keep the Russian Navy contained in the Baltic. But in order to mobilize their armies and transport them all the way to Finland, you will need a lot of transport assets, and not to mention time, and supporting logistics, and that will be a huge challenge.

[yourworstnightmare]

But what can Denmark and Norway do to aid Sweden-Finland?

Their combinded navies might keep the Russian Navy contained in the Baltic. But in order to mobilize their armies and transport them all the way to Finland, you will need a lot of transport assets, and not to mention time, and supporting logistics, and that will be a huge challenge.
And Britain is Norway's most important trading partner, and Denmark is paranoid about Germany, not the Entente.

Also, I don't think Sweden would really be that eager to get the Baltic provinces back. Would be hard to defend them, and if a power with a weaker grip conquer the Baltics, the Balts would probably just see this as an opportunity and revolt to create their own states. This is the era of Nationalism after all.

[ThomasTheviking]

And Britain is Norway's most important trading partner, and Denmark is paranoid about Germany, not the Entente.

Also, I don't think Sweden would really be that eager to get the Baltic provinces back. Would be hard to defend them, and if a power with a weaker grip conquer the Baltics, the Balts would probably just see this as an opportunity and revolt to create their own states. This is the era of Nationalism after all.

I actually think I agree totally with everything you say! :)

The only minor difference ITL is ofcourse that an alliance is brewing between the central powers and Scandinavia, thus perhaps reducing Denmark's fear of Germany.

[chris N]

Sweden since the end of the last Century had done everything that it could to improve relations with Denmark . It had used its influence to help reach a better settlement of the War between Denmark and Prussia and Austria.
The result had been that the overwhelming parts of the territory in dispute that were Danish were allowed to be kept by Denmark. This had eased the prospect of hatred of Germany by the Danes.
The late 19th Century and early 20th century had see a major expansion of the Swedish - Finnish rail system. Sweden was attempting to increase its ability to move forces from Sweden to Finland without having to move them across the Baltic. To a degree that had worked but there had only been limited testing of the rail system .

As a result Sweden had entered into talks with its Scandinavian allies about discussing a possible agreement with Germany and Austria_Hungary. The Austrian were very much worried about the Russians to an even greater extent than the Swedes.

[chris N]

Germany sends a clear signal to the British Government that it wishes to end the Naval Arms race. Despite moves by Britain toward an alliance with France the Prime Minister decides that this is a chance to end the trouble with Germany and orders Lord Grey to begin a reapproachment with Germany. The British Monarch celebrates Kaiser Wilhelm II eturn to reality and sends a letter to him.
For the Scandinavians this is welcome news as it makes it less likely that there will be a war.
Late March a decision has been made for the Heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne to visit Bosnia in July.

[ThomasTheviking]

Sweden since the end of the last Century had done everything that it could to improve relations with Denmark . It had used its influence to help reach a better settlement of the War between Denmark and Prussia and Austria.
The result had been that the overwhelming parts of the territory in dispute that were Danish were allowed to be kept by Denmark. This had eased the prospect of hatred of Germany by the Danes.
The late 19th Century and early 20th century had see a major expansion of the Swedish - Finnish rail system. Sweden was attempting to increase its ability to move forces from Sweden to Finland without having to move them across the Baltic. To a degree that had worked but there had only been limited testing of the rail system .

As a result Sweden had entered into talks with its Scandinavian allies about discussing a possible agreement with Germany and Austria_Hungary. The Austrian were very much worried about the Russians to an even greater extent than the Swedes.

Makes ok sense ITTL, and supports the moving of troops.
But what would be the purpose of going to war with Russia?....especially for Norway and Denmark?

[yourworstnightmare]

Makes ok sense ITTL, and supports the moving of troops.
But what would be the purpose of going to war with Russia?....especially for Norway and Denmark?
They wouldn't. Norway would never go to war with Britain, since they depend on British trade, and Denmark would see no point with it (and the Danes probably secretly hope the Germans will lose anyways).

[chris N]

That is the sticky part. Norway has been having some problems with the Russians. It would appear that the Russians have little respect for the Norway's claim to territory. that is the islands to the North. Also neither Norway nor Denmark think too highly of the Czar's Navy after their behavior upon sailing to the Far East.

Tensions between Germany and Great Britain have ease a great deal after Germany decided to end the Naval Arms race. With Germany no longer threatening Great Britain's control of the high Seas there is a lot less reason for Britain to consider siding with the French and Britain number 1 enemy Russia. Russia had been consider a threat to Britain's crown Jewel India since the 19th Century.
It would thus appear that Britain could sit out a European War.

[chris N]

In Sweden construction on the new Battleship continued to move forward.German ship building experts were in Sweden to dive their advise on the construction of the largest capital ship to ever be built by a Scandinavian power. Sweden had no plans to build a second ship as it adsorbed too much capital.

It appeared that Britain was preparing to replace some of its cabinet ministers that had dragged the country into an alliance with France. Ireland was becoming a problem that would have to be dealt with, There was an increased demand for self rule.

In the Norwegian capital the trade Ministers of the three countriesmet to discuss the trade agreement There was an attempt to do mor to help the economy of all three countries. Sweden and Norway were looking at ways to improve the production of power.

[chris N]

Sweden's new Battleships was currently ahead of schedule. It had originally been suppose to be completed by the late summer of 1916 but now it was to be completed by the Summer of 1915.
Sweden;s Ambassador to the Court of St James was reporting that the country was facing the Irish .

[ThomasTheviking]

That is the sticky part. Norway has been having some problems with the Russians. It would appear that the Russians have little respect for the Norway's claim to territory. that is the islands to the North. Also neither Norway nor Denmark think too highly of the Czar's Navy after their behavior upon sailing to the Far East.

Tensions between Germany and Great Britain have ease a great deal after Germany decided to end the Naval Arms race. With Germany no longer threatening Great Britain's control of the high Seas there is a lot less reason for Britain to consider siding with the French and Britain number 1 enemy Russia. Russia had been consider a threat to Britain's crown Jewel India since the 19th Century.
It would thus appear that Britain could sit out a European War.


But what about France....They are still in it on the Russian side, or?

[chris N]

Yes, France continues its alliance with Russia. It continues to believe that it is the only way to neutralize Germany and regain the lands lost in 1870.

It France the move by Britain away from an alliance with France is regarded by many in the French Government as an act of Betrayal. On the other hand many in the British government has felt re-leaved with the ending of the Naval arms race by Germany and the nonintervention on the mainland of Europe.

[yourworstnightmare]

Why would Germany end the naval race. They have Willy II in charge, and he wanted more colonies.

[chris N]

Because in reality the naval arms race was costing Germany too much. It needed additional money for the army. It has recently come out that shortly bfore the First World War broke out in our time line the Kaiser had finally been convinced by his advisers to off Britain an end of the Naval Arms race. Lord Grey and some of the others believed that standing by France was more important and thus a war that did not need to happen was allowed to take place. In this time line I am have the officer take place much earlier and the British Prime Minister accepting the offer. Thus Britian gets what it has wanted and is able to stop spending a fortune on new warships.

Will the war still break out I am not sure. Will Britain enterit that is less of a sure thing.

[ThomasTheviking]

Yes, France continues its alliance with Russia. It continues to believe that it is the only way to neutralize Germany and regain the lands lost in 1870.

It France the move by Britain away from an alliance with France is regarded by many in the French Government as an act of Betrayal. On the other hand many in the British government has felt re-leaved with the ending of the Naval arms race by Germany and the nonintervention on the mainland of Europe.

Ahh I see....so it will most likely be WW I as we knew it, just without the UK and with Scandinavia joining the Central Powers. This should shift the balance of power significantly, to make it quite an easy victory for the New Central Powers, Scandinavia included. Wonder what the reward will be for the individual countries in Scandinavia?

[yourworstnightmare]

If Germany invade Belgium, the UK would join anyways, so you need to keep the Germans out of Blegium.

[chris N]

The Swedish Attache to Germany was at a party that the Germans were giving in Berlin and he happen to get into one of those what if discussions with a German Staff officer about a possible European War. The Swedish officer said to him that it was an open secret that The German Military was considering invading Belgium in order to bypass French Defenses, however he had discussed this with his brother who was a diplomat and he pointed out the treaty signed by Prussia, France Great Britain and Austria guaranteeing the Independence of Belgium.
With that the German officer excused himself> He caugnt a cab to the General staff and spoke to his superior. This started a chain reaction.

A decision was made to look at the plans for a war with France and to alter them so as not to trigger a war with Great Britain. It appeared that the new plan that was being worked on would see Germany remain on the defensive in the west and take Russia out in the East.

[ThomasTheviking]

The Swedish Attache to Germany was at a party that the Germans were giving in Berlin and he happen to get into one of those what if discussions with a German Staff officer about a possible European War. The Swedish officer said to him that it was an open secret that The German Military was considering invading Belgium in order to bypass French Defenses, however he had discussed this with his brother who was a diplomat and he pointed out the treaty signed by Prussia, France Great Britain and Austria guaranteeing the Independence of Belgium.
With that the German officer excused himself> He caugnt a cab to the General staff and spoke to his superior. This started a chain reaction.

A decision was made to look at the plans for a war with France and to alter them so as not to trigger a war with Great Britain. It appeared that the new plan that was being worked on would see Germany remain on the defensive in the west and take Russia out in the East.

Either a great save....:D..or it was part of your plan from the beginning:confused:.

[chris N]

German Engineers were as always studying German Defenses in the West against France and making adjustments. A team of German fortification experts was looking at the Swedish- Finish defenses along the border with Russia. They had also secretly closed into Russia and had studies some of the Russian defense works.
Germany would be scrapping some of its older battleships and the expectation was that more of the dreadnoughts would be scrapped as newer designs were were approved so as not to worry the British. Germany would not be increasing the size of its capital ship fleet but would eventially replace older ships with more modern one.

There was even talk of selling the Sultan some of these German Ships.
Germany had talked with the Swedes about selling them an additional Battleship. It would take some of the excellent Swedish Iron Ore as payment toward the ship.

( Yes Thomas I will admit that this was part of my thinking from the start
Germany does not want to face a war with another major power. France and Russia would be more than enough and if there is any hope of getting Swedish and the other Scandinavians involved then war with Britain is a No No!)

[ThomasTheviking]

German Engineers were as always studying German Defenses in the West against France and making adjustments. A team of German fortification experts was looking at the Swedish- Finish defenses along the border with Russia. They had also secretly closed into Russia and had studies some of the Russian defense works.
Germany would be scrapping some of its older battleships and the expectation was that more of the dreadnoughts would be scrapped as newer designs were were approved so as not to worry the British. Germany would not be increasing the size of its capital ship fleet but would eventially replace older ships with more modern one.

There was even talk of selling the Sultan some of these German Ships.
Germany had talked with the Swedes about selling them an additional Battleship. It would take some of the excellent Swedish Iron Ore as payment toward the ship.

( Yes Thomas I will admit that this was part of my thinking from the start
Germany does not want to face a war with another major power. France and Russia would be more than enough and if there is any hope of getting Swedish and the other Scandinavians involved then war with Britain is a No No!)

Well I also think this a rather smart plan. Concentrate on russia, with the Scandinavian allies (eventhough I am still a little unsure what they will get in return), defeat Russian relatively early on. While the campaing against Russia is going on, let France bleed it self, against prepared German defences. Staying on the defence, will leave Belgium out of the war, as well as the UK whose alliance with France never happended ITTL.

I like it.

[chris N]

Berlin: A new war strategy has been decided on Take out Russia First. German defenses in the West should keep the French in France. The French will suffer terrible loses if they attempt to breech the German defenses. Then Germany could upon the defeat of Russia turn its attention to to France.
The only way that the French could get at them would be to violate Belgium's territory. In doing so the liely outcome would be Belgian resistance and irony of ironies Great Britain would come into the war on Germany's side.

Still at this point in time it did not look like there would be any war breaking out but the Chief of the General Staff ordered the work on the plans to be expedited.

Sweden: A similar meeting was taking place in the Swedish Military Planning staff meeting. Reports had come in pointing out the German observations regarding the defense lines uilt by the Swedes and Finns.
It recommended some changes and the deployment of more artillery for the units. Sweden had no plans o declare war on France but Russia was always considered a threat. Sweden's Battleship was progressing nicely but it would still be more than a year before it would be complete ( more likely 2 years). Intelligence indicated that the Russian Naval commander in the Baltic was very anti-Swedish and that tended to cloud his judgement.

[chris N]

Vienna the heir to the throne was to leave for Bosnia Herzegovina with his wife on an inspection tour. The Archduke was know for his view of reforming the empire and lessing the hold of the Hungarians. The Archduke wanted the various ethnic minorities such as the Serbs, Slovenians, Croats, Poles and others to have more of a say. Austrian Imperial Intelligence had word that there was a possible threat to the Archduke but he assured the Emperor that he was confident that he could be kept safe. The Danish Attache in he Serb Capital was not sure that talk of the Austrian heirs visit to Bosnia was a good idea. The Serb Secret Police seemed to be going through the motions of cracking down on extremest but he had heard rumors of the involvement of a secret group of Serb Nationalist in the movement, with the support of Serb intelligence. May 1914

[chris N]

Sweden was working on a new trade and energy agreement with its Scandinavian partners. It seemed that the region could use more production of electricity and it wanted help from Norway in the matter.
While Sweden was tilting toward the Central Powers do to the perceived threat from Russia it had not crossed the line. It was however clear to a lot of Sweden's diplomats and military aides that the Balkan tinderbox was all set to explode. The war that had just ended not that long ago had left things unresolved.
A Swedish friend of the Archduke told him that he feared fro his friends safety and advised him to postpone the trip but he said no. He then left to meet his destiny.

[chris N]

It appears that history with regard to the Austro-Hungarian Archduke is on the same collision course as on out time line. Despite reports indicating that there was a threat he and his wife left for Bosnia. The only concession was that security was ramped up with a body guard with the Archduke at all times. The morning of June 28th the Archduke rose for a final day in the provenience but he has a feeling that something was not right . He tried to shake it but it just kept popping up still he had a duty. Would the day turn out as it did in our time line or not?

[chris N]

Franz knew that as he dressed in the uniform of an Austro-Hungarian Officer and left with his wife for the drive to inspect thing tht things would be different. Ho sooner did he complete the first inspection and was off in a convoy to the second site than hsi convoy came under attack. Fortunately the Royal couple escaped without any harm done. A second attempt saw injuries to police , civilians and military personnel. The Archdukes Body guard was having a very hard time and he was able to kill an assassin that had shot the wife of the Grand Duke. He attempted to shield the Duke but the explosion of the grenade wounded the Archduke as well as his body guard. No one knew how seriously. Both were rushed to the Hospital where it was discovered that the Archduke was seriously injured.
A report to the Palace in Vienna indicated that it was touch and go for the Hapsburg heir. Vienna was in shock and as the word spread through Europe things would soon move faster than anyone had expected.

[chris N]

The Archduke, His Wife and Bodyguard all were in the hospital. The Archduke was in critical condition and the doctors were not hopeful that he would make it. His wife was in better shape but it seemed that when news of her husbands condition was told to her her condition worsen. The Hospital was surrounded by Austro Hungarian troops after it was found out that it would be impossible to move the Royal couple.
The Bodyguard was stable and was expected to recover but it would appear that it was doubtful that he would return to active duty as a combat officer in the Imperial Army. The suspect had be wounded and had been captured.
He was a Serb citizen and it was clear that this had been an organized effort .Now as in our time line things began to get crazy. The Kaiser was in the North Sea cruising of the coast of Norway. The Czar was traveling with the family to spend a few days in Moscow.
The Head of the Austro_Hungarian Military was pushing for a quick military action against Serbia.
The Italian Monarch was horrified at the assassination attempt on a Member of the Royal family. Italian Politicians were wondering as to what direction they should take. They were officially a member of the Central Powers but they also had some territorial claims against Austria-Hungary still they also had problems with France.
The Danish Ambassador to Sweden relayed a request for a Foreign Ministers meeting of the Scandinavian nations. There was no desire to get into any conflict. All three nations sent messages of sympathy to Emperor Franz Joseph.

[chris N]

June 39th : The Archduke's condition had improved enough that they were able to put him on a military hospital train with his wife for Vienna. The Emperor did not want him in a possible war zone. July 1st 1914 the Archduke suffers a heart attack and dies. Tree Hours latter his wife also passes away.
Austria prepares a series of demands to allow it to root out the terrorist threat once and for all in Serbia. The Austrian Government are well aware that this could cause a war with Serbia but they have indications that Serbian government officials were involved.
Austria-Hungary's Ambassador to Germany ask for German Assurances.
Kaiser Wilhelm , who is visiting Norway is urged to come home.
Serbia ask for assurances of help from Russia. And so the chances of War increase.

[chris N]

The Assassination of the Austro-Hungarian Heir had sent shock waves throughout Europe. The Czar may had had his problems with the Austro-Hungarians but he sympathized with Emperor Franz Joseph. He was well aware of the pain that the assassination of a Family member could bring.
Serbia was informed that much would depend upon what the Austrian demands were.
The Austrians were consulting with their allies Germany and Italy and there was even talks with the Bulgarians. France and Russia were talking to one another but Great Britain was in the midst of dealing with its Irish Problem.
Yet at the same time the British were attempting to cool things down.

The Danes were urging Sweden to calm the Germans down so that they could restrain the Austrians. Tensions were rising and the Kaiser was taking its time to return home as he did not believe that there would be a war.
The German General Staff ordered preparation to be implemented for the mobilization of German army. Russia First was now to be the Strategy.

[chris N]

Austria Hungary had now submitted its demands on Serbia and was waiting for a reply. Germany appeared to be backing its partner and applying what pressure it could to Italy to stay loyal to the alliance. If Italy stood by the alliance it would face problems if it withdrew forces from North Africa.
The Ottoman Empire was expecting 2 battleships from Great Britain and with Britian not being allied to France there would be no reason to stop the sale.
Never the less, France and Russia urged the British to delay or stop the sale.
If this happen it would weaken the Ottoman Navy and put Russia in better shape to dominate the Black Sea.

The was also a possible problem with that. It would anger the Young Turks and allow the Central Powers to make more economic inroads in the empire,

[ThomasTheviking]

Now things are happening really fast!....and I doubt the Scandinavians can calm the situation.

The question is; will they board the train of war, or watch from the sidelines?

[chris N]

Stockholm : The Army Commander recommended calling up reservist for summer training just in case the war spread. Work on the new Swedish Battleship was ordered to be sped up. Denmark urged Germany to moderate Austria-Hungary's demands and Norway' s Crown Prince discusses the matter with the Kaiser who appeared to be out of touch and would now head for home.
July 5th 1914 Austria was still readying its demands but they were expected to be delivered by the 7th with a demand for a reply by the 15th.
Austria-Hungary had now ordered Mobilization.

[chris N]

Berlin: July 18th 1914 Things were moving to war. The Kaiser had just returned from his cruise and was not at all happy that things just seemed to be out of Control. The Military reported that it appeared that Russia was mobilizing. Austria-Hungary was appealing to Germany for support and the Kaiser was reminded that if Germany did not stand by its ally then things could get bad for Germany in the Future. The Kaiser okayed limited mobilization and sent a message appealing to "Cousin Nicki" appealing for him to stop this Rush to war and not to allow a total mobilization. What no one knew is that the Russians were not able to do a limited mobilization. It was all or nothing.
Four days latter t with no reply the Kaiser reluctantly ordered a General Mobilization . France also ordered a General Mobilization.
Germany's Ambassador to Belgium delievered a message to the Belgian King notifying him that Germany would respect Belgium's border. It requested assurances from the King of the Belgians that he would not allow French troops to cross its border to attack Germany.The King of the Belgians immediately fired off a message to the Kaiser telling him that NO ONE would be allowed to cross Belgians borders.

[ThomasTheviking]

Berlin: July 18th 1914 Things were moving to war. The Kaiser had just returned from his cruise and was not at all happy that things just seemed to be out of Control. The Military reported that it appeared that Russia was mobilizing. Austria-Hungary was appealing to Germany for support and the Kaiser was reminded that if Germany did not stand by its ally then things could get bad for Germany in the Future. The Kaiser okayed limited mobilization and sent a message appealing to "Cousin Nicki" appealing for him to stop this Rush to war and not to allow a total mobilization. What no one knew is that the Russians were not able to do a limited mobilization. It was all or nothing.
Four days latter t with no reply the Kaiser reluctantly ordered a General Mobilization . France also ordered a General Mobilization.
Germany's Ambassador to Belgium delievered a message to the Belgian King notifying him that Germany would respect Belgium's border. It requested assurances from the King of the Belgians that he would not allow French troops to cross its border to attack Germany.The King of the Belgians immediately fired off a message to the Kaiser telling him that NO ONE would be allowed to cross Belgians borders.

The German plan seems to work perfectly. Keeping both Belgium and the UK out of this new WWI, and focusing on Russia while keeping on th defensive against France.

.....But what is happening in Scandinavia?

[chris N]

The AUstro_Hungarian Embassy had a surprise visitor in that the King of Sweden arrived to sign the book of Condolences . Sweden was the most pro-Central Powers state in Scandinavia. Norway had started to move in the direction of sympathizing with the Central Powers as a result of the arrogance shown by Russia.
Denmark was determined to remain neutral in the war and only a violation of the treaty with Sweden and Norway would bring her into the war.

It appeared that it would take an action by an outsider to trigger Sweden's joining the war. But it appeared that there was an idot in the Russian Navy that could very well do that.

[Derekc2]

So the stupid russians are attacking Sweden, what an idiot.

[chris N]

In Our Time Line this nearly happen as a Czarist Admiral attempted to launch a pre-emptive attack on Sweden's Navy thinking that Sweden would join with Germany. If he hadn't been stopped it would have resulted in Sweden joining the Central Powers.

[ThomasTheviking]

In Our Time Line this nearly happen as a Czarist Admiral attempted to launch a pre-emptive attack on Sweden's Navy thinking that Sweden would join with Germany. If he hadn't been stopped it would have resulted in Sweden joining the Central Powers.

Really? How far ahead was the Russians in planning for this?....I doubt that Sweden would have joined the Central Powers, even if the Russian attacked the Swedish fleet.

[chris N]

The Russian Admiral in question had gone to see with the intention of carrying out a pre-emptive attack on the Swedish Navy. He was utterly convinced that Sweden was planning on joining the Central Powers in the war and only by doing this would Russia be safe. While the King and the military favored a war with Russia the Prime Minister was against it. But if the Russians had attacked and Killed Swedish Sailors it would have been an act of war and the Prime Minister would have had no choice. Fortunately for the Russians cooler heads prevailed and the Admiral was ordered to return to base.
As you may have guessed I have decides to allow the attack to happen thus triggering a number of Changes. Since Sweden was attacked by Russia while at peace it triggers the Scandinavian alliance. Expect Norway and Denmark to send "volunteers" to enter the fight. Germany will offer the assistance of the High Seas fleet to transport Swedish and Scaninavian reinforcement to Finland.

[ThomasTheviking]

The Russian Admiral in question had gone to see with the intention of carrying out a pre-emptive attack on the Swedish Navy. He was utterly convinced that Sweden was planning on joining the Central Powers in the war and only by doing this would Russia be safe. While the King and the military favored a war with Russia the Prime Minister was against it. But if the Russians had attacked and Killed Swedish Sailors it would have been an act of war and the Prime Minister would have had no choice. Fortunately for the Russians cooler heads prevailed and the Admiral was ordered to return to base.
As you may have guessed I have decides to allow the attack to happen thus triggering a number of Changes. Since Sweden was attacked by Russia while at peace it triggers the Scandinavian alliance. Expect Norway and Denmark to send "volunteers" to enter the fight. Germany will offer the assistance of the High Seas fleet to transport Swedish and Scaninavian reinforcement to Finland.


Thank you Chris N.....as always informative and wih a lot of knowledge, that is new to me, eventhough I live in the region :o.

Looking forward to see how the attack plays out, and the consequences.

[chris N]

August 1 1914 War Had now broken out as the Austro-Hungarian forces bombarded the Serb Capital. Russia had declared war on Austria-Hungary and Germany Had declared War on Russia. Two of the Central Powers were at war with Russia . Russia launched a thrust into East Prussia but was stunned when the Germans stopped it dead in its tracks and launched a counter attack that shattered the Russian. The Russians had fully expected the Germans to carry out their main attack in the East but it was taking place instead in the East.
A German and Austro-Hungarian Army was carrying a thrust from the south into Poland. Russia pleaded with the French to launch an attack on the Germans to draw away strength from the East.

Meanwhile a Russian Admiral had set sail with a Russian Naval task force determined to eliminate a threat that he felt was there. He was positive that the Swedish Government was about to strike at Russia and he was determined to prevent it. Thus with no declaration of war by Russia on Sweden he proceeded to attack Swedish warships in Swedish waters. It was a disaster the Swedish Navy lost a dreadnought battleship and several gunboats. More ships were damaged.
When the King heard the news he was stunned and the Prime Minister was angry. The war that he had sought to avoid was now upon them.
Swedish Police had to surround the Russian Embassy to prevent crowds from storming the Embassy. The Russian Ambassador was stunned.
In the Danish Capital the Russian Ambassador was called to the Danish foreign Ministry and told that his country had with one act destroyed all of the efforts of Denmark and Norway to keep the peace. Denmark and Norway would be closing their Embassies and Russia was to close theirs.
Noway informed the Swedish government that it would be sending a Brigade of Volunteers to the north and Denmark was also deciding what forces it could spare.
Germany's High Seas Fleet was moving to the North to protect Sweden and to drive the Russians back in to their ports. Germany offered to escort any troops Denmark might send.

[ThomasTheviking]

August 1 1914 War Had now broken out as the Austro-Hungarian forces bombarded the Serb Capital. Russia had declared war on Austria-Hungary and Germany Had declared War on Russia. Two of the Central Powers were at war with Russia . Russia launched a thrust into East Prussia but was stunned when the Germans stopped it dead in its tracks and launched a counter attack that shattered the Russian. The Russians had fully expected the Germans to carry out their main attack in the East but it was taking place instead in the East.
A German and Austro-Hungarian Army was carrying a thrust from the south into Poland. Russia pleaded with the French to launch an attack on the Germans to draw away strength from the East.

Meanwhile a Russian Admiral had set sail with a Russian Naval task force determined to eliminate a threat that he felt was there. He was positive that the Swedish Government was about to strike at Russia and he was determined to prevent it. Thus with no declaration of war by Russia on Sweden he proceeded to attack Swedish warships in Swedish waters. It was a disaster the Swedish Navy lost a dreadnought battleship and several gunboats. More ships were damaged.
When the King heard the news he was stunned and the Prime Minister was angry. The war that he had sought to avoid was now upon them.
Swedish Police had to surround the Russian Embassy to prevent crowds from storming the Embassy. The Russian Ambassador was stunned.
In the Danish Capital the Russian Ambassador was called to the Danish foreign Ministry and told that his country had with one act destroyed all of the efforts of Denmark and Norway to keep the peace. Denmark and Norway would be closing their Embassies and Russia was to close theirs.
Noway informed the Swedish government that it would be sending a Brigade of Volunteers to the north and Denmark was also deciding what forces it could spare.
Germany's High Seas Fleet was moving to the North to protect Sweden and to drive the Russians back in to their ports. Germany offered to escort any troops Denmark might send.

Good update!
Now things are escalating quickly. What a stupid move by the Russian Admiral....I doubt he will receive praise when he returns. So Denmark and Norway opts for only sending volunteers, and stop short of declaring war?

what will be the size of the danish contribution?

Looking forward to seeing the french response, and to hear what is going on in Finland.

[chris N]

St Petersburg: When word arrived that a Czarist Admiral had taken it upon himself to attack Sweden and thus expand the war there was a lot of swearing by the Czar and his advisors. The bulk of the Imperial Russian Army was far ro the South fighting in Poland and the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The Garrison of St Petersburg was a little over 33, 000 men. It would be possible to get perhaps another 36,000 troops there by diverting forces but that was it for now. In contrast the SwedishImperial Forces had 2 Swedish and 6 Finnish divisions along the border or roughly 120,000 plus troops. But of that force perhaps 60,000 could be concentrated for a thrust.
Reservist in Finland were already in the process of being called up and there were already plans to move a corp of Swedish troops by rail to Finland but that would take at least 10-14 days for them to get there.

Denmark's military represenative had informed the Swedish Government that the Danish "Brigade would consist of 3 Infantry Battalions, 1 Field Artillery Battalion and a Squadron of Cavalry. Additional Forces would be forcoming. The Danish government had broken diplomatic relations with Russia but had not declared war. Norway had done the same. The Brigade from Norway would consist of 3 Battalions of troops trained to fight in Lapland as well as a battalion of artillery. Norway also hoped to send more troops.

[chris N]

Russia had relatively small forces along the Russo- Swedish Empire Border. Its Military high Command had not been planning on a war on its northern front. The result was a scrambling to move forces to strengthen the defenses of the capital.
Swedish- Estonian forces carried out a surprise attack against the Russian forces facing them. They rolled back the Russian regaining parts of Estonia that had been held by the Russians. Estonian volunteers were flocking to the colors, including from occupied Estonia. Sweden would need to send additional forces to Estonia as well as additional arms and munitions but it was facing a big problem of moving that across the Baltic now that a good chunk of the Swedish Navy was no more. Germany agreed to provide escorts and to supply some artillery. Anything that weaken Russia would shorten the war.

[ThomasTheviking]

Things are really going downhill for Russia at the moment......a threath to Skt. Petersburg must force them to re-deploy forces from the front against Germany.

What is happening on the Western Front?

[Reichenfaust]

The Bear will fall from its many wounds.... And the fact that its digestive system and muscles want workers equality(lenin) lol.

[chris N]

The Swedish Finish Army of over 75,000 troops crossed the Russo-Swedish Frontier shattering what Russian forces were defending the border. The Russian Imperial Guard division left the capital and headed to the border to buy as much time as possible. These 18,000 well trained and equipped soldiers were outnumbered by more than 4 to 1. They were facing elite units of the Swedish Army including the Swedish Guards ans the 1st Finnish Jager Division. More troops were on the way.

Within 2 hours of the Guard having left the first groups of Russian reinforcements arrived in the form of the 104th Rifle Division and the 5th Cossack Cavalry Regiment. The 104th quickly began to man the defensive positions strengthening the Morale of the very shaky 6,000 militiamen who were the bulk of the defense force. There were some fortress artillery troops and some other Regulars but that was it.

Along the Swedish Estonian -Russian Estonian border the Swedish-Estonian forces had conducted a surprise attack. Estonians living on the Russian side of the border had stuck at the Russian forces supply line crating Chaos. German Ships arrived at the port unloading weapons and nearly a Brigade of Swedish troops that had been sent.

The Russian High Command was ordering forces that were to be sent to Poland to move instead to the borer with Swedish Estonia and to defend the Imperial Capital.

[ThomasTheviking]

The Bear will fall from its many wounds.... And the fact that its digestive system and muscles want workers equality(lenin) lol.

Yes..will be interesting too see if we get a revolution ITTL.

[ThomasTheviking]

The Swedish Finish Army of over 75,000 troops crossed the Russo-Swedish Frontier shattering what Russian forces were defending the border. The Russian Imperial Guard division left the capital and headed to the border to buy as much time as possible. These 18,000 well trained and equipped soldiers were outnumbered by more than 4 to 1. They were facing elite units of the Swedish Army including the Swedish Guards ans the 1st Finnish Jager Division. More troops were on the way.

Within 2 hours of the Guard having left the first groups of Russian reinforcements arrived in the form of the 104th Rifle Division and the 5th Cossack Cavalry Regiment. The 104th quickly began to man the defensive positions strengthening the Morale of the very shaky 6,000 militiamen who were the bulk of the defense force. There were some fortress artillery troops and some other Regulars but that was it.

Along the Swedish Estonian -Russian Estonian border the Swedish-Estonian forces had conducted a surprise attack. Estonians living on the Russian side of the border had stuck at the Russian forces supply line crating Chaos. German Ships arrived at the port unloading weapons and nearly a Brigade of Swedish troops that had been sent.

The Russian High Command was ordering forces that were to be sent to Poland to move instead to the borer with Swedish Estonia and to defend the Imperial Capital.

So far so good, for the invasion. I guess the Russian Navy stays in port to avoid clashes with the German Navy?

[Reichenfaust]

If we have a revolution, I can see Brest-Litvosk being worse, as now the Russians have 4 enemies(If the Ottomans join in), that want territory. Sweden Might Demand all of Karelia returned, and the Estonian Territories will probably be enlarged.

[chris N]

Russia appealed to France to do everything that it could to draw the German forces away from Russia and force Germany to send more forces to the west.
France was attempting to convince Greece to enter the war on the side of the Allies. Meanwhile, Germany was attempting to convince the Ottoman Empire to join the War against Russia but Great Britain was exerting pressure on the Ottomans to remain neutral. A promise to deliver the battleship that was ordered.

Meanwhile German Intelligence was picking up hints that France was seriously considering violation of the sovereignty of Belgium. French loses assaulting the Central front were horrible.

[ThomasTheviking]

Russia appealed to France to do everything that it could to draw the German forces away from Russia and force Germany to send more forces to the west.
France was attempting to convince Greece to enter the war on the side of the Allies. Meanwhile, Germany was attempting to convince the Ottoman Empire to join the War against Russia but Great Britain was exerting pressure on the Ottomans to remain neutral. A promise to deliver the battleship that was ordered.

Meanwhile German Intelligence was picking up hints that France was seriously considering violation of the sovereignty of Belgium. French loses assaulting the Central front were horrible.

I wonder how the UK will react if France violates the neutrality of Belgium??

[chris N]

London: The Norwegian Naval Attache had lunch with a friend from the British Admiralty and proceeded to give him information that France was considering violating the neutrality of Belgium. The British officer asked the source of the intelligence and the Naval officer said that it had come from a reliable source. In actuality it had been leaked by German intelligence to Norway so that it could be passed on to the British.

Greece: The King was utterly opposed to Greece getting involved in the war but the Prime Minister was very Pro-French. Still with Russia taking a beating and France suffering serious casualties on its front it was a serious debatable point as to how wise that would be.

[ThomasTheviking]

London: The Norwegian Naval Attache had lunch with a friend from the British Admiralty and proceeded to give him information that France was considering violating the neutrality of Belgium. The British officer asked the source of the intelligence and the Naval officer said that it had come from a reliable source. In actuality it had been leaked by German intelligence to Norway so that it could be passed on to the British.


The plot thickens!!

[Reichenfaust]

The intel war is very good in this story. Keep it up.

[chris N]

German Intelligence was playing a serious game of damaging he French war effort as much as possible. They had managed to find out that the French were about to violate the treat that was signed by Great Britain, France and Prussia to respect the borders of neutral Belgium. It had then used a third party to get the word to Great Britain.
Britain in turn warned France that if French troops crossed the borders of Belgium then Britain would be forces to take action against France.
The French did not need another enemy against them, especially one that could block the transfer of troops from North Africa to France and could blockade France.

[chris N]

15 Miles North east of St Petersberg: The Russian Imperial Guard Division was fighting a rear guard action. It had been reinforces by a regiment of Cossack Cavalry. The Swedish Army was pressing quite had and with the odds as bad as they were it was only the iron determination of the Russians that were holding the Swedish forces from the capital.
Additional Russian troops had arrived by rail at the capital but at the same time 2 divisions of Swedish Infantry and a division of cavalry had arrived.
The Swedish-Finnish Army was now approaching 120,000 men.
It was critical that a victory be achieved during the summer or else the Scandinavians would be in for a long winter war.

[Reichenfaust]

Scandinavian Winter Guard! Go finnish troops!

[ThomasTheviking]

What will the Scandinavians do with the Russian population if they seize Skt. Petersburg?...and how much time has passed since the outbreak of hostilities?

[chris N]

A meeting was taking place in the Swedish Capital . The Milital leadership was meeting to discuss what where the goals of the war and what would they do with the Russian people that were living on the land that they conquered . It was increasing becoming an important question since The Royal Swedish army was now banging at the gates of St Petersburg. The Swedish Military had been treating the Russian people with great care and as a result there had been no backlash or attempts to support attacks against the Swedish-Finnish forces. For now the important thing was to fight the war. It was now early September and the commander of the troops that had severed in the region knew that winter would come all too soon and it would have to be prepared for.

The Central Powers had scored several key victories. Warsaw was under seige and German forces had captured nearly 150,000 Russian Prisoners.The Russians had achieved some results that were alarming in that an Austro-Hungarian division had been destroyed and another had suffered serious loses.
The Austro-Hungarians had invaded Serbia and had been joined by Bulgaria. Fighting war nasty. Germany had poured more troops into the Eastern Front thus allowing the Empire to finish its war with Serbia.

Italy had not joined the war but in view of the pounding that Russia was taking the military and political leadership had serious doubts about the wisdom on taking the french offer and entering the war on France and Russia's side.

[chris N]

In Sweden someone took out some Maps that were based on What the Swedish Empire looked like 200 years ago. The King and his political advisers looked at it and decided that they would like a modified verision of it. Some of the territory would be too populated with Russians to annex but perhaps Sweden could regain some plus a larger Estonia.

[chris N]

The Swedish government had decided that the minium demands would be for the return of Karelia and al of what it considered Estonia and a moving of the border further to the East. It would be unrealistic to consider getting everything else back. There would be other demands.

Meanwhile the remains of the Russian Imperial Guard Division and the Cossack Cavalry Unit entered St Petersburg. It joined the Garrision that now included 2 Rifle Divisions, Fortress Artillery Division, 9,000 "militamen" and some other odds and Ends. The Swedish_Finnish Army now manuevered itself to seal off the city from any futher reinforcement and resupply. The Imperial Family left for Moscow while the Czar decided to remain behind to be one with his people.

[ThomasTheviking]

The Swedish government had decided that the minium demands would be for the return of Karelia and al of what it considered Estonia and a moving of the border further to the East. It would be unrealistic to consider getting everything else back. There would be other demands.

Meanwhile the remains of the Russian Imperial Guard Division and the Cossack Cavalry Unit entered St Petersburg. It joined the Garrision that now included 2 Rifle Divisions, Fortress Artillery Division, 9,000 "militamen" and some other odds and Ends. The Swedish_Finnish Army now manuevered itself to seal off the city from any futher reinforcement and resupply. The Imperial Family left for Moscow while the Czar decided to remain behind to be one with his people.

So maybe we will see urban fighting inside Skt. Petersburg?

I would guess that there are additional Russian troops making their way to the capitol?

[chris N]

St Peterburg: The Czar received a report that with the withdrawal of the remains of the Guard Infantry division into St Petersburg with the Cossack Cavalry Regiment there were nearly 55,000 Russian troops in the garrison.
The Russian Commander estimated that the Swedish forces at about 240,000 ( actually there were 2000,000 Swedish, Finnish and Danish troops). Germany was sending some heavy siege artillery to aide the Swedes in the attack.
Lt General Karl Mannerheim sent in the demand for the city to surrender or it would face bombardment. Swedish Aircraft were carrying out aerial recon missions over the City and had observed some of the shelling. The Swedish and Finnish officers estimated that they might have just 30 days to carry on the attack before they would have to switch to preparing for a winter siege.

[chris N]

Southern Sweden: The Swedish Government passed a request at the meeting of the Scandinavian Military Planning Commission to the Danish representative for additional forces for the war. Sweden had requested Denmark to send an additional Infantry Regiment, an Artillery Regiment, Medical company, 2 engineer companies and an armored car Squadron.
The Danish Colonel promised to send it to Denmark for immediate consideration.

Germany had received a request from Sweden for some heavy siege guns and the German government had dispatched 6x305mm and 6x402mm siege guns with crews to assist its Scandinavina ally.

[ThomasTheviking]

Southern Sweden: The Swedish Government passed a request at the meeting of the Scandinavian Military Planning Commission to the Danish representative for additional forces for the war. Sweden had requested Denmark to send an additional Infantry Regiment, an Artillery Regiment, Medical company, 2 engineer companies and an armored car Squadron.
The Danish Colonel promised to send it to Denmark for immediate consideration.

Germany had received a request from Sweden for some heavy siege guns and the German government had dispatched 6x305mm and 6x402mm siege guns with crews to assist its Scandinavina ally.


Bring out the heavy guns!
Will be interesting to see the stamina of the Russians ITTL. IOTL during WWII it was impossible to either bomb or starve out Skt. Pertsburg/ Leningrad, maybe without communism and loosing on all fronts, the Russians will surrender more easily....or then again maybe not.

[chris N]

The Swedish Embassy in London received a request from the British Foreign Office requesting that the Swedish Ambassador attend a meeting at the Foreign Ministry. The Swedish Ambassador arrived with his aides including the military attache and they were ushered into a Room with the Russian Ambassador and hi aides at the other end. The Ambassador gave the British Foreign Minister a questioning look and he immediately stated to talk.

"Gentlemen , would you all please be seated . I have be asked by the Prime Minister to hold this meeting to see if it would be possible to resolve the conflict between the Swedish and Russian Empires. I would like to inform the Ambassador from Sweden that the government of His Imperial Majesty Nicholas II has consented to these talks.
The Government of Russia would like to know if there is any way that the conflict could be ended between the two sides. And if so what would it take to end the conflict and to return the Army of the Swedish Empire and its allies to Swedish Territory?"
The Swedish Ambassador said , " I would have to consult with my government but I would point out that we did not start this war. It was a Russian naval force that fired on Swedish warships in Swedish territorial waters. The result was both the loss of warships and the loss of the lives of sailors . I am aware that my country would demand the restoration of territories taken by Russia over the years but as to what territory I could not say. I would have to talk to the government at home and also know what the Government of Russia is offering.

British Foreign Minister looked at the Russian Ambassador who nodded.
Russia is offering new borders for Estonia and the Return of Karelia.
It would also offer compensation for the loss of the warship and the sailors lives.
The Swedish Ambasssador was well aware that his country had already achieved what Russia was ofering and that St Petersburg was under siege.
He then said, " I will convey the offer from the Government of Russia to my country and will inform the Foreign minster of My country's reaction.
Until I have received instructions authorizing me to enter into these talks I can say nothing more.

[chris N]

German Heavy artillery had arrived and was pounding the way into the Russian Imperial capital. The Swedes were going slowly so as to minimize any loses to the Imperial forces. The Swedish and Finnish Officers were well aware that time was not on their side. Winter would arrive all too soon. Some Swedish 11" rail guns had also entered into the fight.

[chris N]

Norwegian and Finnish troops cleared the northern part of Russia. The found the site of what would have become Murmansk in OTL . It was just some tents as the place would no have come into existence until 1915.
However, the Swedish Imperial Government thought that it would make an excellent site for a naval base and ordered fortification work to begin. Some captured Russian POW's were sent north to aide the work.
The war at this point was going quite well for the Swedes as well as the Central Powers.

[chris N]

September 21,1914 German Forces had finally captured Warsay and were pushing the Russians to the east. The War in Serbia had made more progress than in OTL but the Austro-Hungarians were finding the fighting in the mountains to be tough going. Belgrade had finally been captured.

Meanwhile the government of Sweden was shocled by the proposal from the Russian to reach a separate peace. Some thought that the effort was to buy time for the Russian to deal with the Austrians and Germans. Once that war was over the Russians would use force to regain the land that they had conceded to the Swedes. Sweden would then have alienated its ally Germany.

[Reichenfaust]

Yeah, stick with the CP, do not abandon them. Gain back all of Karelia. If you can use the common ancestry the Swedes share with the Russians in the form of Varangian territory. It's really good that the troops are treating the Russians well in captured area. That will really help

[chris N]

Denmark: The Swedish Foreign Minister arrived for talks with the Danish Prime Minister and his government. The Swedish Government wanted to make sure that Denmark was kept advised as to any offers. The Danish leader was happy that Russia had made an offer until the Danish Military adviser agreed with the Swedish thoughts that as soon as the war with the Central Powers was over they would turn their full attention to the Swedish territories. In that case Denmark might have to send at least a corp or more of troops to join the Swedish forces and most of the Danish Navy would also be involved in the war.
He was informed that Norway had been briefed and had agreed to go along with Sweden. It had also expressed a desire for a meeting of the Prime Ministers in Southern Norway to co-ordinate the War policy and requirements.

[chris N]

Suburbs of St Petersburg Russia: The morning were beginning to get cooler but the fighting was still hot. German, Swedish and Danish artillery was hitting the city. Swedish aircraft were spotting for the guns. The forces were slowly breaking into the city. But things could be nasty the 1st Finnish Rifles ha d taken a key block and then had been thrown out of it by a counter attack by the Russian guards. Six times the site change hands and then on the 7th the Fins took it back and held it. One hundred Finnish soldiers had been Killed and nearly 400 wounded in the battle. The Russians lost 230 KIA and 1000 wounded.

[ThomasTheviking]

The Swedish Embassy in London received a request from the British Foreign Office requesting that the Swedish Ambassador attend a meeting at the Foreign Ministry. The Swedish Ambassador arrived with his aides including the military attache and they were ushered into a Room with the Russian Ambassador and hi aides at the other end. The Ambassador gave the British Foreign Minister a questioning look and he immediately stated to talk.

"Gentlemen , would you all please be seated . I have be asked by the Prime Minister to hold this meeting to see if it would be possible to resolve the conflict between the Swedish and Russian Empires. I would like to inform the Ambassador from Sweden that the government of His Imperial Majesty Nicholas II has consented to these talks.
The Government of Russia would like to know if there is any way that the conflict could be ended between the two sides. And if so what would it take to end the conflict and to return the Army of the Swedish Empire and its allies to Swedish Territory?"
The Swedish Ambassador said , " I would have to consult with my government but I would point out that we did not start this war. It was a Russian naval force that fired on Swedish warships in Swedish territorial waters. The result was both the loss of warships and the loss of the lives of sailors . I am aware that my country would demand the restoration of territories taken by Russia over the years but as to what territory I could not say. I would have to talk to the government at home and also know what the Government of Russia is offering.

British Foreign Minister looked at the Russian Ambassador who nodded.
Russia is offering new borders for Estonia and the Return of Karelia.
It would also offer compensation for the loss of the warship and the sailors lives.
The Swedish Ambasssador was well aware that his country had already achieved what Russia was ofering and that St Petersburg was under siege.
He then said, " I will convey the offer from the Government of Russia to my country and will inform the Foreign minster of My country's reaction.
Until I have received instructions authorizing me to enter into these talks I can say nothing more.

The russian are hard pressed, henve they are already sueing for peace.

But is this only a separate peace between russia and Sweden? What about the war between Russia and Germany?

[chris N]

Sweden informed the British foreign Minister that there would be no further meeting between Sweden and Russia at this time. The Swedish Ambassador stated that there would need to be a grand solution to end the conflict.
Germany had become aware of the Russian move and was about to say something to Sweden when the Swedish Government informed Germany and Austria_Hungary that it had rejected the peace talks.

[chris N]

France was attempting to improve the odds by attempting to convince the Japanese to enter the war against Germany. France's thoughts were that if japan entered it Germany would have to send more resources to the Pacific.

[chris N]

The Commander of the Swedish Imperial Forces sent an aide with a dispatch to the capital. The dispatch gave a detailed report on the Siege of St. Petersburg and the war on the Finnish front.
The report indicated that the Swedish forces had managed to tighten the grip on the Russian Imperial capital but it was clear to him that it was unlikely to fall and the weather was starting to turn. He had already had the engineers start to build facilities to allow the besiegers to continue the siege through the winter. He was going to need a lot more help to take the city. The German and Austrian siege guns were helping to break in but he needed more.
Swedish aircraft were able to help co-ordinate the bombardment of the city and provide photographs. He recommended that the Swedish government consider expanding its air Force.
The picture below was showing the German achievement in Poland and something similar was achieved by the Swedish forces.

[Reichenfaust]

Once Sweden gets heavier guns, and more of an air force the city will fall.

[chris N]

Well heavy artillery continues to pound the Russian Imperial Capital it is looking clear that it will not fall soon. Thus Swedish Imperial forces have begun to build bunkers to allow their troops to withstand the horrible winter.

Forces in Estonia have also dug in as it is clear that the Russian will launch a counter attack. Below ans Austrian 305mm siege gun snt to help with the Siege of ST Petersburg.

[chris N]

It was clear to the Swedish-Finnish Generals that St Petersburg would not fall and the weather was already starting to get colder. Engineers had build defensive works so that the Imperial forces had defensive works facing the city and facing the rear. There was a great fear that the Russians would mount a winter offensive to relieve he city. General Mannerheim had returned from a trip to the imperial capitl to rief the King and the War cabinet on the Siege. The Army;s Chief odf Staff told him that there would be no additional divisions available until next Spring. Nearly 19,000 replacements were due to arive. and so the shelling continued/

[chris N]

Sweden sent a representative to the Central Powers Military Planning committee in Germany to discuss the needs for the siege of St Petersburg and the palns of the German and Austro-Hungarian forces for the winter of 1914 and plans for the Spring.
Germany had scored a lot of victories over the Russians in Poland and had allowed the Austrian forces to continue to mount their main offensive against Serbia. The Serbian - Montenegrin forces had suffered loses but had not been knocked out of the war.

Italy was considering entering the war on the Central Power side as Russia was losing and France was in check. Japan had considered entering the war but Great Britain had thrown cold water on it.

[chris N]

Swedish Forces had entered the suburbs of St Petersburg but it appeared that that was as far as things would go in 1914. The first snows came and as a result the General knew that this would be a long siege.

[chris N]

Sure enough the bad weather did arrive and it was a good thing that the Swedish forces had started to prepare earlier. If they had not prepared the fortified positions with heat and food then one might have seen casualties among the forces due to frostbite. Yet even with the Bad weather the Swedish bombardment of St Petersburg continued. But when the weather cleared the Swedish planes wen up to search the approaches to the Swedish lins from the South and East. There was always the fear that th Russians would launch a great counter offensive to releave the city.

[Reichenfaust]

Yes, the Russians love their massed attacks. I think Japan might enter the war against Russia, but like you said the British are trying to keep them out. Is this to stop the conflagration from spreading?

[chris N]

Great Britain's Prime Minister is very concern at this growing war. He was very disappointed that Sweden would not accept Britain's attempt to come up with a settlement . He now realized that he would have to keep an eye on the French or they might do something stupid and invade Belgium thus bring
Britain into the war against France and Russia. He wanted to keep Britain after the war. In fact with Ireland becoming an issue that needed to be resolved he could not afford to get the country into a war. The war was messing up trade as Britain was finding that France and Germany were doing things that were making the English Channel and North Sea dangerous.

Japan was hungry to gain more territory and it had taken a lot of pressure by Britain to keep Japan from attacking the Germans.

[Reichenfaust]

Well if Britain enters the War, they could convince Japan to attack the Russian Far east. Try a repeat of the Russo-Japanese war of 1910. That would be cool.

[chris N]

There are countries that do not trust Japan ( China and the US being two). Great Britain is trying to end the war. The Liberal Prime Minister does not want to get into a war that could cost his country a lot of money and a lot of lives.
Britain has reminded Japan that the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-5 cost Japan a lot.

[Reichenfaust]

True enough. Still in the Great scheme of things GB wants to curb Russian expansion in the Far east. The "Great Game" is still going on. I know the States wants to not see the ending of this war, and the British as well. So would Britain and the States force Japan on the German side just to stop the Russian colossus? Balkanizing Russia is a great way to sway the great game in the Anglo-Germanic Direction. I wouldn't go that far, just a question about the stories direction.

[chris N]

At this point I haven't thought about expanding the war to the Far East.I have been trying to concentrate on the role of Sweden in the War. But there is no doubt in my mind that what happens on the other fronts will be dealt with. Everything is interrelated. Thus as the year 1914 is drawing to a close Austra-Hungary is bogged down fighting in the mountains of Serbia and Montenegro . Bulgaria's entery into the war has improved thins for its Central Powers ally. On the Eastern Front the Germans have taken Warsaw and have pushed the Russians out of Poland. They helped to counter the Russian attack on the Austro-Hungarian border.
Sweden has the Russian capital under siege but worries about a Russian effort to break it. Something that I truly expect to happen.

Yes Britain has always feared a Russian threat to India and it is of mixed feelings about the war. On the one hand it will result in a weakening of a lot of countries for a period of time but on the other hand it is rsulting in the loss of some markets and resources.

[Reichenfaust]

Yeah I can see the Swedish side of the war better. I think it will eventually result in a CP victory. This is a great TL. I love the way you are bringing the Scandinavian countries together.:D

[chris N]

Sweden: In the Scandinavian Military Planning Headquarters representatives were receiving a detailed briefing on the campaign. A Finnish and Danish officers briefed on the situation regarding St Petersburg. No punches were pulled and there was a feeling that the Russians would try to relieve the city. How possible it would be to keep the siege intact was an iffy question.
An Estonian officer gave the briefing on that front. The success of the uprising and the capture of so many Russian POWs was detailed. It was the opinion of the Swedish Commander that the defensive positions set up were pretty solid and could resist a Russian counter attract. Food and munitions had been stockpiled as there was real concern about the Baltic freezing. A Norwegian officer explained the campaign in the north. The Norwegian-Finnish force had captured all of the territory and had suffered no loses. They had used Russian POWs to build defensive positions and housing.

[chris N]

While the Scandinavians were meeting so were the Russian Military High Command. The bad weather had helped to stabilize the front with the Germans and now was the time to move to lift the siege of St Petersburg.
Br Rail the Russians began to assemble a force that would do the job. The 14th Army and the 7th Guards Army were given the task. Together they consisted of 12 Infantry and 3 Cavalry divisions. That was a lot of troops but it was felt that they would have only one chance to get this done right.
It was hoped that by mid to late January the troops would be in position to move on St Petersberg.

[chris N]

General Brusilov was given command of the Foce that was to lift the siege of St Petersburg. His troops consisted of those that had had some combat experience and those that had yet to see combat. He insisted that for this mission he would need a lot of well trained troops. The Czar;s Cousin was now the acting commander in Chief and he agreed. General Brusilov was given several Cossack Cavalry units and some of the well trained Siberian troops, which were quite capabile of operating in the harsh winter weather. His sole mission was not to drive the Sweds back to the Swedish -Finnish border but to lift the siege of the capital. If that was done the morale of the Russian army would improve and the Central Powers would be left with a major upset.

[pike]

Best Prax Swedish TL I have read on AH fourms so far and definitely your best TL so far ChrisN.:D

Who knew that some one could write such an awsome WW1 TL with out going ASB.

[chris N]

General Brusilov had studied the situtation and discussed his plans with the Grand Duke. He hoped to take the Swedes by surprise and force then to retreat to closer to the border. It would be impossible to follow up any victory with an offensive as he was sure that the main front would heat up. He was looking at the map of the current Eastern Main Front.

[chris N]

St Petersburg Front. The commander of the III Corp of the Swedish Army was very uneasy about the Siege. His Corp was responsible for the siege along the southern border. He was thus facing not only the Russian forces in St petersburg but the possibility of a Russian attempt to relieve the city. The engineers had built bunkers and fortifications which faced both directions but he had only 3 divisions worth of troops. Those divisions had a total of 162 guns and the corp added a Battalion of siege guns and 1 of field artillery. He had a Regiment of cavalry that prior to the bad weather had constantly patrolled the approached to the Swedish Positions.
He had the 4th Swedish Infantry Division , 2nd Finnish Guards Division and the 9th Finnish (Reserve) Division.

[chris N]

February 21,1915 Russian forces began their offensive in the attempt to break the siege of St Petersburg. A Swedish patrol had stumble upon the advanced guard. The Swedish General Commanding the Third Corp now that to hope that one Regiment from each division could hold the forces in St Petersburg in check while the rest of the division faced the attackers attempting to break through. A risk needed to be taken and only the siege guns would continue to fire into the city. All other artillery would support the defense.

[chris N]

General Mannerheim was given command of both the II and III Corps and was given responsibility for the defense of the south from the Russian offensive. The Swedish Imperial Army had started the war with Battalion of over 900 men but now those battalions were down to about 800 men due to lose of troops in Combat (either Killed or wounded) and from injuries and illness. Still all of the Swedish Imperial Forces were combat trained. In addition all of the companies had been equipped with the Danish light machine gun. This weapon had allowed the Swedish/Finnish forces to take on the numerically superior numbers of Russians with a chance of defeating them.
The German High Command upon hearing of the attack on the Swedish forces ordered a winter offensive on the central Front in an effort to draw the Russia reserves away from the northern front.

[chris N]

The battle now in the south was a battle between the Commander of the Second Army and the Russian Commander. The Swedish-Finnish Commander knew that the Russian had the advantage in Artillery and manpower. He also was aware from intelligence reports that Brusilov was one of the most skilled Russian Generals. Thus he would have to remain on the defensive and inflict the heaviest loses on the Russians. The Danish Light Machine guns gave his forces a force equalizer.
The Russians could breech the line but could they hold it open?

[chris N]

The battle continued around St Petersburg. The Russians inside began to mount an attack along the southern front timing it just right so they were able to force the Swedish forces to pull back to the east. Thus for a period of time General Brusliov achieved his goal and held the opening long enough for the Czar to be rescued and for supplies to make there way into the city. General Mannerheim made one more effort to close the gap and finally succeeded . Still the General knew that anothe attack by the Russian would probably not be held and the opening would reappear.
It might be better to pull back and wait for the Germans to crack the Russians before attempting another siege. The war in Southern St Petersburg had cost the Swedish forces a lot of troops. Preliminary figures showed 800 Killed in action and more than 2400 wounded. For a country with a population much less than Russia's that was horrible loses.

[chris N]

While the ight was going on in the south the Danish troops discovered a weak spot in the Russian defenses in the North and with a Battalion of Swedish and Finnish assault troops they broke through the Russian Defenses and soon had most of the northern part of the city under their control.

[chris N]

The Swedish/Finnish/Danish force had smashed their way into the Russian Capital. The Russians had been taken off guard and were now having to rush forces to seal the breech. Marshal Carl Gotenburg had decided to role the dice and risk everything by throwing in all of the available reserves. The result was that he was able to overwhelm the defenders and push deep into the city. The Czar and the Government had managed to escape during the breakout. When Karl Mannerheim resealed the breech in the siege line things only got worse for the Russians.
The German Winter ofensive rsulted in there being no additional forces to send to General Brusilov. Victory was now within sight.

[chris N]

March 1915 The Siege of St Peterburg continued as the Russian commander decided to make another attempt to lift the siege but the Swedish allied forces now had control of the norther quarter of the city and were pushing deeper into the city.

[chris N]

St Petersburg Front: Marshal Gotenberg had sent a message to the Swedish Capital requesting reinforcements and a decision on whether he should press the attack or not. It appeared that the shelling by the siege guns had broken the Russian defenses in the north. Still there was a possibility of heavy casualties if the attack was pressed. General Mannerheim had managed to seal the city off again but he had taken loses in doing so.
The Swedish Marshal sent a message to his deputy telling him to hold. He had not received a reply but he was going to roll the dice and take a big chance that if he kept the pressure on and didn't allow the Russians time to restore their defences that he could cause a collapse that would see the city under the Swedish Flag'. What reserves where available were already on the way from the Finnish provience.

[pike]

Things seem to be come to a tipping point on the Russian front.

I like the knife edge moments. Makes for very entertaining battles even with WW1 tech.

[Reichenfaust]

Yea, and the Scandinavian forces are dominating with the general issue Danish LMG which is a great idea.

[chris N]

A Danish Unit had been providing support for the Swedish and Finnish assault troops. His unit was now deep into the Northern part of the city and had been cleaning out what Russian troops still remained. One Swedish officer praised the Danish light machine guns to the Danish captain saying that without its firepower his unit could never have made the progress that it had. It was truly an equalizer. Russian troops had feared the sound of it.

Still there were problems that were increasingly coming to light. The assault was burning through a lot of the ammunition at a faster than expected rate.Luckily there had been reserves but even those were running low.The winter had made it difficult to move supplies forward but thing continued to move just not as fast as the Swedish Marshal would have liked. Another problem was Russian Civilians. The Swedish military was having to use what Military Police units it had to control them and move them to areas where they would be safe from the fighting.
Recently a Russian artillery barrage had ended up killing nearly 200 Russian Civilians.

[chris N]

March 7th ,1915 Using the last reserves Marshal Gotenberg makes an all out effort to cause the collapse of the defenses of St Peterburf. General Karl Mannerheim has prepared the 2nd Army as best he can to resist the attempts by Russian General Brusilov. The Russian Commander is confident that he can once again break through the Swedish defenses. Both sides pound the other with artillery as the Russians hurry to close the distance and breech the Swedish/Finnish defenses. The Russians break through in one sector when the Swedish machine guns run out of ammunition. The Swedes pull back to regroup and mount a counter attack. The Russian Garrison in the Imperial Capital is on its last legs . General Brusilov finds that the forces holding the captial have reached their limit and are a broken reed. If he replaces them with some of his own forces he will be unable to hold the Swedes from closing the gap. He thereforth orders the Garrison to withdraw through the break. General Mannerhein personally directs the counter attack after receiving some ammo for the light machine guns and some armored cars. The fight goes on all day long and into the night. Finally at dawn the next day the gap is closed and shortly there after the weary Swedish and Finnish troops see Swedish and Danish troops coming from the North. It is March 8th 1915 and the capital of Imperial Russia is now in Swedish hands.
General Mannerheim is recommend for promotion to Marshal.

The war has cost the Swedish Empire a lot both in manpower and in money. The Army will be unable to mount any kind of offensive for at least a month as the divisions are worn out and need rest and replacement. All that are available to keep the Russians off balance are 2 regiments of cavalry.
The Church bells are rung in all the cities of the Swedish Empire. A telegram is sent by the Swedish King to his fellow Scandinavian Monarchs tanking them for their help.

[chris N]

March 21,1915 Nearly 900 Swedish and Finnish soldiers and 20 Danish soldiers received decorations from the Swedish Government for their action in the campaign.

[Reichenfaust]

So does Russia surrender....

[rule_them_all]

Could you post like a title in every chapter you make? Makes it easier to follow.

[chris N]

Interlude: Sweden had won a great victory with the Capture of the Russian Imperial Capital. But Russia had not decided to call it quits and was even now trying to hold off the Germans while preparing to make the Scandinavians life difficult.
Repurts from the Army had indicated that in addition to the loses it had taken its troops were exhausted. Its troops were tired after a brutal winter of fighting and they needed at least a month of rest to recover. Two of the divisions were to be replaced with troops that had served on other parts of the main front. Replacements and supplies were to arrive. Denmark had agreed to continue to keep forces with the Swedish Army but it would be replacing some of the units with new troops. A lot of the soldiers had volunteered to do a second tour and this would mean that the Danish force would have enough experienced troops to prevent heavy loses due to being "green". The division would be increased to a full strength division.
The two goals that the Swedish Army had was to take the Russian Baltic Sea Fleet base and to link up with Estonia. There was no desire by Sweden to continue the war deeper into Russia.
Sweden's represenative on the Central Powers Military Planning Council was made aware of Germany's plan for 1915.

[chris N]

Planning for 1915: Sweden was now finding that still needed to plan for the next year of the war. As the Swedish military saw things it would need to eliminate the Russian Naval base in the Gulf of Finland to make its control of the Gulf and St Petersburg secure. It would also make sense to be able to push far enough south as to connect the forces in the north with the forces in Estonia. The was no way that Sweden could move any further.
Even with Denmark and Norway sending additional volunteers there was a limit to the ability of the nation to fight a war. Manpower limits would be reached by no latter than 1916 so that it was critical to limit casualties to the Swedish Army and its Scandinavian allies.

[pike]

Speculating about what will happen after the Russian are crushed. So far i have only got as far as the Fench will be destroyed and the german get there colonies in africa back.

[chris N]

Africa: The War in Africa had been quiet but with the French unable to do anything it appeared to be the one place that France could strike. The German colonies in West Africa were the only ones that would seem to be threaten. German Southwest Africa and German East Africa were both safe.
Britain had been trying very hard to end the war and if not end it at least miniumize it but France had no luck breaking through Germany's western defenses and it was warmed to stay out of Britain. Result the only place that the French could strike with any chance of success was Africa.

[chris N]

Meanwhile things on the Eastern front were getting worse for the Russians . With Far Greater resources the Germans and their Austo-Hungarian Allies were pushing the Russians further and further back. The Germans asked the Swedes to launch an offensive to the south. They promised that if they did so that the German Army would be able to link up with it. Note the Blue Line is where the Germans and their allies were at the Start of the launching of the Offensive of 1915 in this time line.

[chris N]

The Campaign Begins Anew: Marshal Mannerheim was given Command of the Second Army. He had under his Command Three Corps of of Infantry and 1 Division of Cavalry. His first Mission was to begin the elimination of the Russian Naval base. That would allow the Gulf of Finland to be totally open to allied shipping. Marshal Mannerheim directed the 3rd Corp to begin the siege. The corp consisted of 1 Swedish and 2 Finnish Infantry Divisions, 2 Engineer Battalions and the 3 Battalions of Siege artillery ( with Swedish and German crews. The remaining two corps of the Army would prevent any Russian attack toward St Petersburg. Sweden's newest Marshal was asking for another corp to be sent to allow him to reach Estonia.

[chris N]

The Siege of the Russian Naval base had begun. Denmark had agreed ro send an addition artillery Regiment to help with the siege with the provision that once it was over the unit would be sent back to Denmark. Germany had sent some of its warships with minesweepers to help with the bombardment of the base.
Marshal Gotengurg had endorsed the request for additional force and he was waiting for a response from the Capital.

[chris N]

The Danish Division was sent to help with the siege of the naval base. With minesweepers clearing the way German pre - dreadnoughts enter the Gulf of Finland and got within range to fire on the base. From Sweden and Finland came additional troops . A decision had been made to see if Sweden could end the war in 1915.

[chris N]

The Siege Continues : The Siege of the Russian Naval base was into its second week. The Heavy siege guns and the divisions artillery had been pounding the Russian Facility and even the German battleships in the Gulf had thrown in rounds into the fray. The Russians had also been throwing heavy artillery rounds back as the ships of the Baltic fleet fought back. In fact it appeared that some of them were preparing to sail out and do battle with the Germans.
Two of the German heavy guns were destroyed when a Russian round from the Battleships hit the site and set off some of the ammo. It was estimated that more than 20 German soldiers died from the explosion and another 40 were injured. Swedish Aircraft were now overflying the base and helping to direct gunfire.

[chris N]

The Bombardment escalated as the Swedish and Germans increased th volume of fire. Finally after nearly three weeks of Constant shelling Swedish and Danish troops broke into the base and the Russian sailors surrendered. There was not one Russian warship that was capable of doing anything. The entire port was full of nothing but wreckage and there were buildings that were burning. Swedish and Finnish troops attempted to put the fires out.

[chris N]

The War against Serbia: Finally the fighting in the Balkans came to an end as the Austo-Hungarian and Bulgarian Armies crushed the Serbian and Montenegrin armies. The Austrians were able to peruse them and prevent the escape of both counties military from escaping to Italy. Some Serbian troops did make it across the border to Greece where they were interned.
The result of this was the fact that the Austro-Hugarian Army was now freed to face the Russian front.

Italy now had made up its mind not to join the war against the Central Powers. In Fact it was looking at possibly joining the war against the French and Russians.

[chris N]

The Central Powers had now destroyed the threat that was Serbia. Italy had realized that going to war against Austria-Hungry and Germany would be fool hardy to say the least. The Italians had clearly been paying attention to reports on the war on the Russian Front. The Russians were attempting to mount a counter offensive but at the same time the Czar in Moscow was being urged to seek a cease fire and attempting to reach a peace treaty.

[chris N]

The Eastern Front: In the North The Germans had now mounted a finally offensive which had seen the Germans advance through the Baltic until German and Swedish troops finally met one another.

[chris N]

German toops poured through Riga having liberated the country from the Russian to the North German troops had met Marshal Mannerheim's II Swedish/Finnish Army. The Central Powers had scored a major knock out blow but the Russians would attempt one major Counter-Offensive in the south before giving any serious talk about Russia exiting the War.

[chris N]

The War in the Air: the year 1915 saw the growth of air power. Germany became the developer of a lot of the Central Powers aircraft. It got to the point that German and Dutch designed aircraft were serving in the Imperial German Air Force, Navy, the Swedish Air Force and even the Austo-Hungarian Military. Germany now desired development of aircraft capable of striking targets in both France and Russia. The Russian Capital was far beyond the range of German atrillery once it was moved to Moscow. The German bomber seen below was entering service with the German Air Force and the Swedish Air Force.

[UrbanRedneck]

Forgive me for throwing this discussion in a different, non-miltary direction - but could Sweden have become a greater power thru economic means?

I mean Sweden has steel and other resources. What if starting in the early 19th century they put a major emphasis on education (including women) with the goal of producing an industrious and inventive workforce that could have made Sweden like Japan is today.

From what I've seen so many young Swedes with drive and ambition found they couldnt get anywhere back in the old country and moved to America. I have Swedish ancestors.

FYI: My church, the Evangelical Covenant Church, was founded in 1885 by Swedish immigrants as the Swedish Evangelical Lutheran church.

[Reichenfaust]

So definitely good news about Russia. As well France will be finished if they have to defend against the germans alone. A smaller more contained great war means less tactical development though. Will we see the tank make a debut before the end of the war?

[chris N]

At a meeting of the Central Powers Military Planning Group in Southern Germany a representative from the Austro-Hungarian Empire proposed the building of armored vehicles. The Austrians had been experimenting with armored cars and had seen success with them. There was some resistance from the Germans put the Swedish representative to the group like the idea and voted in favor of developing it and other ideas. Below the Austrian Armored Car which would see service during the campaign.

[chris N]

The War had been going the Central Powers way since the massive shift in strategy before the beginning of the war to an East First Strategy.
With the ending of the Naval Arms Race with Great Britain and respect for Belgium's borders Germany had robbed France of an ally that might have made life difficult for Germany. But the greatest thing to happen was the entrance of Sweden into the war. It had tilted the balance.
Now Austria_ Hungary and Bulgaria had crushed Serbia and Montenegro and had prevented their escape to Italy. Barely 200 soldiers ahd managed to escape the noose. Now the Bulk of Austria-Hungary;s army was moving to the east. Romania had rejected entering the war on Russia's side. Italy was toying with the idea of declaring war on France.
In the North Sweden was exhausted by the war. It had mobilized a lot of manpower and was hoping that Russia would sue for peace.
It was now that Russia launched an all our offensive in the south.

[chris N]

Russia was also attempting to develop new weapons in an effort to regain the initiative. The model seen below was Russia answer to the Austrian vehicle. Russia was gathering its forces to launch a massive counter offensive with the hope of regaining territory and hurting the Austro-Hungarians enough so as to have hope for a reasonable peace agreement.

[chris N]

Russia In June of 1915 launched a Massive counter offensive with more than 140 divisions along the southern part of the Eastern Front> A day after the Russian Counter offensive was launched the French launched an all out offensive determined to break through the German defenses. France had launched a few diversionary attacks but aimed the hammering blow at one point.
The Bavarian Crown Prince was being transferred from the Eastern Front to the Western Front. He was going with almost all of the Bavarian Divisions.
It had been decided that the Western front needed an experienced General that could out think his enemy.
Below the Russian masses moving forward.

[chris N]

Peace Talks: Great Britain once again was offering to host peace talks between the warring sides. Denmark and Norway were pressuring Sweden to be willing to enter the talks and to urge Germany, Austria_Hungary and Bulgaria to join. Unfortunately Russia was hoping that the current Russian and French Attacks might alter the balance enough so that any peace talks might result in Russia regaining some of its land. They failed to realize that the reverse could also be true.

Sweden's Battleship was moving along and might be done a lot sooner than had been expected. The war was costing Sweden resources that could have gone into the civilian economy. Still its victory had resulted in Sweden's gain of land and mineral resources.

[chris N]

Moment of Truth: Sweden had accomplished just about all of its war goals, It had now undone the results of a war that had taken place 200 years ago. In fact it controlled a lot more territory than it had then. While there was celebrating in the Swedish Capital and in Helsinki there was also the realization that the war just wasn't coming to an end. Germany was pressuring the Swedes to make one more push to take the Port of Arkangel
thus sealing the Russians from receiving any supplies during the summer through that port. Sweden was reluctant to do that as it was totally beyond land claimed by the Swedish Government and it would put the Swedish Military in a bind if anything went wrong.
Germany agreed to contribute some forces to the operation and to provide the Swedish Air Force with more German designed aircraft. With the utmost reluctance the Swedish Military agreed to provide some forces for the operation. Operation Northern Lights would see the Commitment pf the Finnish 12 Infantry Division, 11th Dragoon Rgt, German 14th Jager Brigade, 11th Artillery BN (German).
Marshal Gotenburg issued orders that under no circumstances was the Swedish/Finnish forces to put themselves in dangr of being cut off. If thereaten they were to withdraw.
The Swedes were now aware that the Russians had launched the largest counter offensive of th war on the southern part of the Eastern Front. The Austro-Hugarian forces had taken a beating and were pulling back to a stronger position. Romania was under pressure from Russia and France to enter the War, Germany was pressuring it too to stay neutral.
In the west French troops were going all out to break through the German defenses. Crown Price Rupherdt was arriving with his Bavarians to take ovr command on the Western Front. The Bavarian Crown Prince had seen combat on the Russian Front and had done quite well. Now was his chance to shine.
Italy was being pulled in both directions. Prior to the outbreak of the war it had been a Central Powers member. it had declared neutrality and had been wowed by France and Russia to join the war. The collapse of Serbia and its ally had caused the Italians to hesitate and the massive defeats that Russia had suffered had made the Italians think that Germany and Austria_Hungary could win big time. Thus even though France was promising the Italians that it would get the Lands hat it wanted from Austria_Hungary there was serious doubts that that could come to pass.
Yes the Summer of 1915 appeared to be the moment of truth.

Marshal Mannerheim sent a report to Stockholm saying that he believed that the war would not end in 1915 but would cotinue until the summer of 1916. Russia was not finished. Infact it appeared to be getting its second wind and was striking back. Still Baring a massive Central Powers loss he was confident that the Central Powers would be able to dictate a peace next year.

[chris N]

Central Powers forces moved quickly toward the port of Arkhangelsk. It would appear that the Russians were totally unprepared for this Move. The Imperial German Navy had also dispatched troop and warship to sail up the coast of Norway to Russia. The Germans had to provide colliers to keep the fleet fueled . Germany was flexing it naval power.

[chris N]

Operation Thunder: The Imperial German Navy task force set sail from Germany on the longest expedition to be mounted by Germany since the Boxer Rebellion. Two Dreadnoughts, 1 Armored Cruiser, 2 light cruisers, 6 destroyers, 4 Minesweepers, 8 colliers, 12 transports and 8 freighters left on a trip that would take them to Arkhangelsk. It was part of a plan to cut off Russia from supplies and thus end the war. The Ships left port and proceeded to Norway hugging the coast. The fleet was proceeding at a very slow speed to conserve fuel and assure that no one went astray.

[chris N]

After one of the Longest rips and refueling the German fleet arrived in the White Sea. German Minesweepers led the Way. The Port Authorities were stunned when the German ships arrived. What military forces were there were already engaged by the Swedish_German Forces. By dusk the German Forces that had arrived were landed along with enough supplies to last everyone 6 months. The Operation was a success. The German Battleships remained for several days and everyone was refueld for the journey back.
Several Norwegian merchant ships were charted to deliver supplies to the port for the rest of the summer and early autumn before the Ice started to form and close things off.

[chris N]

The Western Front: French forces had retaken one of the cities in Alsace
but the Germans had thrown then out both times that they had taken it.
In the south French forces were now holding part of Pfzetterhouse. It was for this reason that that the Bavarian Crown Price was now being given unprecedented power as the Commander in chief of the Western Front only answerable to the Chief of the General Staff and the Kaiser.
Unfortunately most of the campaign season was used up as it was now the End of June and it would take at least a month to get the planning and forces ready to launch a massive offensive. Below Russian Volunteers sent to France to fight.

[chris N]

Scandinavia: The leaders of the three Scandinavian countries met in Southern Sweden. There the three Monarchs, their Prime Ministers and the Military leaders were briefed on the war against Russia. Sweden was now very concern that the war was draining resources from Sweden faster than it could replace them. Germany was asking the Swedes to continue moving further into Russia and it appeared that Sweden was going to have to say that it just didn't have the amount of troops that could do that. The war needed to come to an end by the end of 1916 at the latest.
German troops were even now passing in review on the way to the Western Front.

[chris N]

The Scandinavian Leaders were very nervous that the Russians might mount a counter offensive against the Swedish positions in the north. But as the days past nothing was happening. Marshal Gotenburg had ordered increases in defensive works and St Petersburg began to once again come alive. The Russian Population had shunk to a fraction of what it had been but despite the front being 40 miles to the east tourist from Sweden and Finlnd came to the city. The Swedish commander in Chief of the Eastern Front now returned to Stockholm for talks on strategy for the coming year. In the meantime Marshal Mannerheim was now the commander in chief of all Swedish and allied forces. He had convinced the Danish Divisional Commander to get Denmark to approve the Danish Volunteers remaining in the St Peterburg region indefinatly. Still the Marshal was wondering when the lull in the storm would break and he would again face a threat.

German forces were now holding Arkhangelsk which had been renamed by them as Arkangel.. They had dugg in building fortifications and counting on the continuation of the rail link to the west. Mannerheim wanter the Finnish Infantry division back as well as the Cavalry unit. A German armored unit seemed to have been formed in the city.

[chris N]

Sweden was finding that the war just seemed to drag on. True the victories achieved by the Swedish and Central Powers were outstanding but Russia just seemed to be unwilling to make peace. France and Sweden had no diplomatic relations as result of its war with Russia but Danish agents reported that the French were launching an all out offensive against the Germans and they had made some territorial gains ( but at an unbelievable price . The current offensive had resulted in the loss of 70,000 French troops Killed in action and 150,000 wounded. The Germans had reportedly suffered 14,900 KIA and 39,000 WIA.
With Russia Launching an all out offensive, which had trown the Austro-Hungarian forces back, Swedish Military planners were questioning the campaign strategy. German planners stated that the Ressian offensive in the south was running out of steam and the Germans were planning a counter attack which cound end up netting them with the sestruction of nearly 1/3 of the Russian divisions. Plans were to complete the war in the East by no latter than the Summer of 1916 and if the counter offensive went well the war could end this fall if Russia sued for peace.

[ledeper]

The leaders of the three Scandinavian countries met in Southern Sweden. I would reshape that to that they are having the meeting in Helsingborg in Scania,as it is a place easily to get to for all parties involved ,from Oslo by boat (8 hour boat-trip),½ an hour for the Danes and a rail trip for the Swedes for max 6 hours.
:)

[chris N]

By all means the meeting would be where you suggested. Many thanks!

[chris N]

August 1915 The German Army launches a counter offensive of its own taking the Russians by surprised. The Russians are surprised by the development of a new tactic. One of the officers involved is a young officer in a mountain unit named Erwin Rommel.

[pike]

Glad you took the time to put in a bit about the young Erwin Rommel. Only the greatest millitary genius of the modern era.:D

[chris N]

The Massive German counter offensive restored the balance on the Eastern Front and netted the Germans the remains of 20 Russians that were cut off by the Germans. This meant that the Germans and their allies had more than 160.000 Russian POWs. The success of the operation relieved a lot of Anxiety at the Central Powers Command center in Germany. The Austrians and the Swedes were now more reassured that the war was moving toward a conclusion.
The Capture of Arkhangelsk or as it now will be referred to Arkangel had cut off another source of supplies from the West. The Russians were starting to have some problems replacing the arms and munitions lost since the start of the war. The Russian Imperial Army was no longer the Machine it had once been.
Archduke Karl on a visit to the Eastern front made sure that all of the Empires Austro-Hungarian troops were receiving enough supplies. Morale was improving. The Archduke knew something that few in the Empire did the Emperor's health was beginning to worsen. The Emperor was hanging on but even he knew that he would not live forever and was shifting more responsibilities to his heir-Karl.

[chris N]

Great Britain was once again attempting to end the latest European Conflict. Sweden was beginning to believe that a settlement now might be in the best interest of Sweden and its Scandinavian Allies. The Swedes had also been sounding out the Austro-Hungarians, who also were beginning to believe that the war must end sooner.

There was beginning to be pressure on the Czar to end the conflict, An incredible amount of Russian territory was now held by either the Swedish, German or Austro-Hungarian forces. The Germans believed that if the Russian did not cry Uncle this year they would collapse in 1916 and the Map of Europe would forever change.

[chris N]

German military planners now aftter a careful screening revealed the strategy for the Campaign that would lead to the ending of the war in the East and which would lead to a decision in the West. It would see a knock out blow to the Russian resulting in an occupation of the Ukraine and an advance on Moscow. The war in the East would be over by Sept 1,1916 at the latest. A general peace would see an enlarged Swedish Empire and the establishment of a German Dominated Baltic Duchy, a Polish Kingdom and an independent Ukraine.
It appeared that Italy was finally about to enter the war but not on France's side. Italian Politicians were now thoroughly convinced that France and Russia were going to lose.
Germany had no desire for more territory from France but it wanted its colony back and might also reward Belgium with French Flanders.
Sweden would get almost all of the territory that it desired and then some. The question of St Petersburg was to be settled.
If Sweden got that territory it would now reach the White sea and have a large opening on the Artic.

[pike]

I have a feeling WW1 is going to be a bit shorter than OLT.
Thanks to the Sweads.

[chris N]

The Bavarian Crown Prince had studied the situation in the realized that the French offensive had run out of steam. He now plotted his counter offensive. He now had 18 new divisions to launch his attack. While all were new to the Western Front 12 of the divisions were combat experienced, having fought on the Eastern Front. One of the Divisions had a newly promoted Major. This officer had proved to be a hard charger and a man capable of thinking on his feet. He would prove his worth in the coming offensive.
July 5th A thunderous barrage marked the start of the offensive The Germans were using the new Storm Tactics that had been developed in the east. The French were taken by surprise and were not prepared for a resumption of fluid warfare. The Germans swept everything before them.crown Price Rupherdt used all of the reserves at his command to keep the break through going. He called the Imperial Army's headwaters and Pleaded for more troops and he got them plus more air support.
Italy them chose this moment to declare War on France and attacked across the southern Alps. This drew French reserves away from the main battlefront. It appeared that Germany was at last looking at achieving its goal of winning the war and at the same time making its allies happy.

By July 15th Verdun had fallen and the Germans were continuing the thrust deeper into France. The second French line was broken and the Germans were continuing to move ever forward toward Paris. Despite the additional forces that were given the offensive was beginning to lose steam as the German forces were growing tired. More than 100,000 French Prisoners had been taken.
The French had managed to contain the Italians but it had required them to commit part of their shrinking reserves. What remained was sent to stop the advance on Paris. By the 31st of July the Germans were within 12 miles of the French capital but without additional forces the Germans could go no further. Fighting in the East had prevented the sending of any more forces. So the Commander in Chief of the West proposed to withdraw some 13 miles so as to shorten his line and await the French counter attack.

[chris N]

Germany now had the Central Powers on the verge of an overwhelming Victory. The entrance of Italy into the war had come late but it might just have given the Central Powers that additional edge as to make certain that Victory was within reach. While the Germans were regrouping, resupplying and moving up replacement the French were desperately attempting to fill in the gap that the Germans had driven in the French Defense lines.
French and German Combat aircraft were fighting it out over the skies of France.
The Morale of the French army was deteriorating and if things went badly it might crack.

Great Britain was once again attempting to broker a peace but was finding that the Italians wanted no peace until they had made some gains.

[chris N]

August 15th Supplies and replacements had now arrived in the West but the Bavarian Crown Prince knew that his forces had yet to have the same kean training that would allow any breakthrough to any of the same success as the first. The result was that he launch smaller attacks to keep the weary French off balance. In a conference with the German Army's Chief of the General Staff and the Kaiser he explained that if he tried another major offensive with forces that were not trained and insufficient support it would fail. The result would be a rise in French morale.
When word arrived of another Russian Counter attack a decision was made to postpone any Major offensive until September.

Meanwhile the Russians conducted a small scale attack toward Arkangel.

[chris N]

Arkhangelsk: The Swedish Imperial Forces that were near the port discovered that Russian forces that were larger than both it and the German garrision of the port notified the German commander that there was a "large " Russian force estimated to be between 50-70,000. They were under orders to not allow themselves to be cut off so they would be withdrawing to the west. The German commander argued with the Finnish General but could not convince him to stay.
The Finnish Division was under strength. It should have been at 18,000 men but was in fact at 12,000. Even the cavalry regiment was under strength due to combat loses and injuries.
Marshal Mannerheim was worried that the Germans had in taking the port over extended both themselves and the Germans. He really did not want to have to detach an entire corp from the Army to rescue the Germans but he feared that he would have to.

[chris N]

Marshal Mannerheim sent Major General Eskel Anderson with a corp of three divisions to rescue the Germans . It was in the interest of interallied co-operation. This young General had been involved in the siege of St Petersburg, where he had assumed command of the Second Finnish Jager guard Division during the attempted Russian Breakout after the death of the division commander. He had also lead the assault which had taken the Russian Naval base. He had proved in both instances to be a man who could think on his feet. He managed to limit causalties suffered by the allied forces and get the job done. He was well liked by Finnish, Swedish and even Dannish troops.

[chris N]

The Swedish Commander figured that the Russian force sent would not be as big as the 12th Division commander thought. With the demands of the main front and the German-Austro=Hungarian counter attack he doubted that there were more than 50,000 troops on the Russian side. He had 3 divisions that had received replacements and this were near full strength this gave him nearly 50,000men including Corp support plus a cavalry regiment and 12 of the new armored cars.
He thought that one way to limit causalties would be the big bluff. Convince the Russians that they were facing not 50,000 plus Swedes and Finns but more than 100,000. With the cavalry and the armored cars he was able to conduct a series of surprise attacks on the Russians and utterly terrorize them into believing that his forces were everywhere..
The Bluff worked and his loses were 9 soldiers killed and 32 injured. He did use up a lot of ammo but he also captured another 1899 Russian POWs and made them thik twice about besieging the port.

[chris N]

Late summer 1915: The situation had now stabilized and Germany now stood with more of Russia under its control than at the start of the year.
The Germans however were exhausted by all of the fighting and with little available reserves available, due to having to send more troops to the French front, it appeared that the lighting would be limited to small action.

The French were now in worse shape than they had been. The French had lost territory and now had to fight the Italians as well.

[pike]

WTF happend to a russia first swedish plan.:(

[chris N]

Discussion: No plan survives contact with the enemy. For the better part of the first year of the War the Strategy of Russia First has worked. The Germans and their allies the Swedes and the Austro-Hungarians had made huge territorial gains. Between the three they have taken more than 959,000 Russian Prisoners and are now at the 1916 point on Our Time Line. Sweden has benefited from the Greater German effort and had made massive territorial gains. With the crushing of the Serbs the bulk of the Austro-Hungarian Army has now moved east. It has had to leave some forces to occupy Montenegro and Serbia, some to watch the Italian and some to watch Romania.
Italy has now entered the war finally deciding that honoring the Central Powers alliance would see her make gains. But this didn't happen until after the massive Russian loses on the Eastern Front and the offensive by Crown Prince Rupherdt . Berlin saw complaints that the Western front was being ignored and that the French were being under estimated. When France made Territorial Gains a new commander for the Front was chosen. The Bavarian was sellected as he was not only cacaple but popular and a thinker. Despite not having a lot of troops he was able to smash open the French lines and come to within 5 miles of the suburbs of Paris before being forced to withdraw.
No troops were pulled from the Russian front but troops that would have gone to Russia were sent to the west.
The strategy for 1916 has been altered. Rupherdt will receive replacements and some reinforcements but the bulk of the troops and support will go to the East> The year 1916 will see three planned offensives in the East. The Goal will be to tke the Ukraine and threaten Moscow. It is believed that Russia will then be forced to sue for peace.
With Italy now tieing down part of the French Reserves Rupherdt will have another chance to knock the French out. 1916 will be the final year of the war.

[chris N]

Situation End of Summer 1915 Germany and its allies had accomplished much. More of Russia was under the control of the Central Powers than at the start of the year and a massive Russian offensive had been stopped.Austria_Hungary was moving more of its forces to the East, which should help to assure that the war in the East would be over before the end of 1916 Summer campaign season. Still the Germans knew that neither the Austro_Hungarians nor the Swedish Kingdom could keep fighting beyond 1916. Sweden didn't have the population and its Scandinavian allies would like to see the war over and done with. Denmark had made a lot of money with its light machine gun sales to Sweden and Norway.
On the Two part Western Front ( France and the Front with Italy) Thing did not look at all that well for France. The Germans had blown a hole through the French Defenses and there were no French reserves available as they had now all been used to contain the Germans and Italians. France was calling up the Class of 1916 ahead of Schedule and might have to do the sam with the class of 1916. It had just managed to get a convoy of colonial forces from Africa through and then the war with Italy had made that a dangerous proposition. It appeared that the Germans were just as worn out as they were. Still that gave the French some time.
The Germans had managed to take some of the French lands near Belgium. Thus should reduce the chance of a French Invasion of Belgium.
For now Rupherdt was limited to some probing attack designed to keep the French off balance. He had managed to rebuild 3 of the Storm Truppen divisions but would need more time. Thus it was expected to be a war of the trenches. The Germans had pressed the air war carring out bombing raids on Paris and the French factories.

[chris N]

The German Navy had conducted the first mission against the French by sending a fast force into the English Channel and bombarding French Ports. It was anothe showing that Germany had the Greater Military Muscle. The Central Powers had total Control of the Baltic Sea and Now with Italy's entry into the war they appeared about to control the Med. Thus denying France the Ability to transport reinforcements from its colony to Mainland France.

Britain's Prime Minister clearly explained to the German Ambassador the Great Britain did not want the war to expand. Germany said that it had so far refrained from using its submarine force against France but was prepared to use the High Seas Fleet to attack France.

[chris N]

Germany's Pacific Squadron was now causing problems for France's Pacific colonies. The German's were capturing or sinking French shipping. A US Merchant ship headed to French Polynesia was warned by a German cruiser that it was entering a war zone. The Germans checked the cargo and allowed it to proceed as there were no war supplies aboard. Germany was being very careful not to sink any British Empire or US Ship.
The German Ambassador to Great Britain brought the matter up with the British Foreign Minister as did the German Ambassador to the US with the Secretary of State.
A French Merchant Ship in the Indian Ocean was sunk by a German Cruiser when it refused to heave to.

[High Plains Drifter]

I don't see a German Fleet entering the channel. Germany has been extremely good so far in not aggravating the UK. Why change that tactic now?

The UK would go batty with German warships so close to the heart of merry old England. While the UK can see the writing on the wall for how the war is going to turn out, they'd have a very hard time sitting still for this in their backyard.

There must be standing orders in the RN for what to do in case this situation ever arose. And what has the UK been doing these last 2 years to upgrade both its land and sea power? No way they've been sitting still.

So the German Fleet would almost undoubtably encounter RN vessels duing the trip. How do those encounters go?

[chris N]

Great Britain: The British Government had been watching the war with great concern. The British had continued to replace some of its older capital ships with newer ones. The British had been spending money improving its army. It was clear that warfare was changing and Britain needed to come up with new weapons that would allow it to fight and win a war.
Germany's Bombardment of French Channel ports was admittedly something of a risk but the British had been altered that it was going to happen shortly before it occurred. The German attack was carried out by Germany's Fast Battlecruisers and was over after only 8 hours.

Britain did have a problem of its own . The Irish Question had cropped up and it appeared that the demand for self rule was causing trouble for the British Government. No have measures would be acceptible .

The Swedish Government and the other Scandinavians were very worried that a wrong move by Germany could bring Great Britain into the war.
But Sandinavians in the US were continuing to make the case that the US should support Sweden.

[chris N]

Winter of 1915-16 The winter saw activity slow down on all of the fronts.There was some combat and Italy continued to attempt to force its way through the Alps. Despite progress in the war war weariness was starting to gain traction everywhere. In France and Russia there was defeatism as groups of demonstrators now started to call for an end to the war. In Stockholm there was a small demonstration calling for peace talks.
There also was some demonstrations in the Austro-Hungarian Empire but since the Central Powers were winning it was not a threat.
Plans were now in the works for a massive one -two Punch on the Russian Front that would Knock Russia out of the War. Then France would be Hit hard. Germany was not expected to demand territory from France for itself but it might demand that French Flanders be given to Belgium. It would also demand the return of its colony in Africa and perhaps some additona French Colonies. Russia would get one peace offer from Germany.

[pike]

Despite some concerns about throwing the Russian first plan out of the window. I am still really enjoying your TL ChrisN. I hope you continue this one until aleast the 1920s so every one can see the full aftermath of this version of WW1.

[chris N]

January 1916: The German Commanders met in Berlin to be briefed on the Final plans fro the War. The Upcoming Campaign was designed to knock Russia out of the War once and for all. The Bulk of the German and Austro-Hungarian Armies would be readied to launch a thrust designed to see them take most of the Ukraine and push onto and take Moscow. Sweden had agreed to make a thrust with 9+ divisions from the North.
Germany had agreed to the Proposal to establish an Independent Polish Kingdom out of Russia's Polish territory. Sweden had sided with Austria_Hungary that it should be a truly independent state with a Hapsburg King. This would result in the raising of perhaps 10-12 Polish Divisions to supplement the more than 200 German and 50 Austro_Hungarian Divisions.

The Commander in Chief of German Forces in the West was informed that it would not be until after the defeat of Russia that any large number of German troops would be available for transfer to West. Thus he was limited to the 50 divisions that he had plus some additional artillery units.
With the Italians banding at the side door the Bavarian Crown Prince thought that he might have a chance to launch a killing blow but he would wait until just the right moment to do it. First he would allow the French to Bled a lot of their strength away.

[chris N]

March 15,1916 The weather had been getting better and the German planners had believed that now was the time to Launch what one that had designated Operation Wrath of the Gods. . German and Russian aircraft had begin to become active. The Russians were anxious to discover what the Central Powers were planning . General Brusilov was commanding the Russian army in the Southern part of the Ukraine. He had 14 Infantry divisions and 3 cavalry divisions. He also had some of the new armore vehiles that someone had designated tanks. The Austro-Hungarians had a lot of Armored cars and the Central Powers were also experimenting with armored vehicles but there was more resistance in the German army than in its Southern ally or even the Swedes to the north.
German artillery hammered away and then the Germans proceeded to break through. wlowly the Germans moved forward and attempted to keep the Pressure on the Russians. One General said keep the pressure on . If they can't stop and dig in things will go much easier. Russian troops began to lose hope and started to throw their wepons away and surrender.
Marshal Mannerheim Lead the 9 Divisions of the Second Swedish Army and he was pleased to discover that part of his Army had made contact with the German 18th Army.
April 15 Kiev had fallen and the Austrians had pushed the Russians to the other side of the Great River. Troops began to enter the Crimea in an effort to clean out the Russina from the Peninsulia .
May1st< German troops were now within 25 miles of the Russian Capital of Moscow. Resistance was getting tougher.
May 5th Some of the Russian troops had mutnied. May 6th The Russian Government asked the Czar to sue for peace. May 7th with the Germans only 11 miles from the surburbs of Moscow the Russian Ambassador to Great Britian ask the British Government for its help in a cease fire and in negioating a peace agreement. May 8th word arrives in Berlin that the Russians have given in . Orders are sent to stop the fighting on May 10,1916. The Central Powers now hold most of the Ukraine. General Brusilov remains one of the few commanding Geneals with a large army of Russian troops.

[chris N]

Western Front 1916: Rupherdt had been waiting for the right chance to strike at the French. With things collapsing on the Russian front it appeared that he was going to have to act fast before the French also ran up the White Flag. He ask Berlin if they could spare him any reinforcements as he saw an excellent chance to do the same thing to France that had been done to Russia. There was not much left in the strategic reserve but the Chief of Staff decided to give the Bavarian most of what was available. The was 2 Sturm Brigades, A tank unit that no one seemed to want, 2 field artillery bns, 1 Heavy Artillery Battalion, 1 Cavalry Rgt and 1 Regular Infantry Division. It was not a lot but it should give the Bavarian some reserves.
May 1, The French had just suffered heavy loses from trying to break through the Germans. The Germans had discovered a weak point and they hit it with everything they had. The storm Units smashed through the French and Rupherdt threw in the reserves. The French rapidly moved toward Paris. In less than 5 days the Germans were Knocking on the Gates of the City.
France on May7th sued for Peace. The Central Powers had won!

[chris N]

The Peace Talks: Talks ending the war were to be Held in Copenhagen . The French and Russians had expected that the peace talks would have been held in Germany so this was a surprise to them. The Swedish government had some demands but it had little desire to try to absorb places like Arkhangelsk. It was clear that Russian Poland, the Baltic States and the lands bordering the Swedish Empire were all gone. Russia wanted back St Petersburg but it was a question as to whether that would be a good idea or not. While a lot of the Russian population had fled there still were quite a few Russians there. Austria-Hungary and and Germany seemed determine to separate the Ukraine from Russia and make it an independent Kingdom. It also proposed that the new Polish Kingdom receive part of White Russia.
France found that the Germans were not demanding any part of Mainland France for themselves but were pushing giving French Flanders to Belgium. It was lukewarm to the Italian demands for territory. Proposals were for the return of the Cameroons and the addition of the French Congo.Italy was demanding French Somali-land and Tunisia. The demands were somewhat flexible. Germany agreed to give somewhat at the Suggestion of the British.
Sweden was gaining a lot of territory. Ethnic Germans in Russia were being required to leave. They had a choice of going back to Germany or north to the Swedish Empire.
When the talks appeared that they were going to deadlock the Central Powers decided to apply pressure by threatening to resume the war.

Discussion: Okay now I am open to suggestions as to what terms should be in the Treaty. Suggestions anyone?

[chris N]

Russian Peace Treaty: ( Okay with No input from anyone else here are the Preliminary terms) Kingdom of Sweden borders moves to the White Sea, Estonia is fully restored to its proper borders and expands north to the Gulf of Finland. St Petersburg is attached to the Kingdom of Sweden . Here the Swedes have some doubts about incorporating the former Russian Imperial Capital.
The Ukraine is granted Independence from Russia as a Separate Kingdom under Central Power occupation.
Latvia and Lithuania are united as the Grand Duchy of Courtland.
The Kingdom of Poland is established consisting of Russian Polish territoirs and Half of White Russia. Austria-Hungary attaches its Polish lands to the new state and a Archduke is selected as the new King.
Arkhangelsk is to be returned to Russia after the conclusion of the treaty's terms.
Russia is required to pay reparations in the amount of 3 Billion dollars . Said money is to be paid in installments over the next 20 years.
Russia is to demobilize it military. All ethnic Germans are to be compensated for any property that they may have lost due to the settlement issue.
Okay I am open to modification of the terms so any good input is welcomed.

[chris N]

French Peace Treaty: Britain was attempting to intervene and prevent a dismemberment of France. Italy that had only at the last moment broken through the Southern Alps was trying to get a lot of French territory. Its demands were for Nice, Corsica, Tunisia , and French Somali-land. Germany was not exactly an enthusiastic supporter of Italy as that nation waited until the war was just about won before joining with the rest of the Central Powers. Britain was against the Italian demands. It began to flex it diplomatic and Military muscle to get the Italians to be more reasonable.

Germany was not demanding territory for itself except for the return of its colony. It wanted France punished but it was willing to be flexible.
The result was Italy received French Somali-Land. Germany demanded that the French Metropolitan Army be limited to no more than 100000. No fortifications were to be built along the border. The French were prohibited from bringing military forces within 10 miles of the border.
France was to pay Germany 3 billion Marks in compensation for the War over a 20 year period of time. It was also to give Germany additional territory in Africa.

[chris N]

These are the treaties . As of May 31st 1916 the treaties had been signed and ratified by the countries. St Petersburg was located in Swedish controled territory but for now it was considered a Free City. Marshal Gotenburg in one of his last act appointed Major General Eskell Anderson as the Commander of the Region that Contained St Petersburg. He had proven that sespite being the youngest General in the Royal Swedish Army he was the most capible general in it.

Once there was an indication that the treaty was going into effect Germany began a partial demoblization. It also announced that it would be scrapping 6 predreadnough battleships and 4 of its oldest battleships. It would be building new capital ships but a lot of he older ships would be struck. Plans were to scrap or sell 2 older Battlecruisers and replace them with newer vessels. The size of the Imperial German Navy would in effect shrink.

[chris N]

Sweden was planning on demobilizing a lot of its military but with all of the additional territory that was proving to be impossible. The Swedish Royal Army as Of the end of the War consisted of 12 Swedish Infantry Divisions, 1 Cavalry Division, 1 Infantry Brigade and 6 Fortress artillery BNS, 12 Finnish Infantry Divisions, 1 Cavalry Division, 1 Swedish-Finnish Brigade, , 5 Estonian Divisions.
The Swedish Government demobilized 6 of the Swedish Divisions,4 of the Finnish Divisions and 3 of the Estonian divisions.
The Army was Deployed as Follows: Lapland (including former Russian Territory) Swedish Finnish Brigade.
FINLAND/ and new territories: 3 Swedish Infantry Divisions, 1 Swedish Cavalry Brigade,6 Finnish Infantry Divisions, 1 Finnish Cavalry Division
Estonia: 1 Swedish Brigade,2 Swedish Fortress BNs, 2 Estonian Infantry Division
Two Swedish Fortress Battalions were sent to man new fortifications on the new Border with Russia. Sweden had Purchased the guns from one of the Scrapped German Battle ships.

[chris N]

Sweden was finding that the war had resulted in the nation having spent a lot of money on its military. The Government pressed for a reduction in the size of the military in order to save money. The new Swedish Battleship was entering into service and plans to build a second ship were put on hold. While th war had ended there were still needs that had to be met. New fortifications along the new border, a new port in the north. replenishment of ammo used up in the war and replacement of destroyed, worn out or damaged weapons.
Denmark withdrew its forces from Sweden. The Swedish Government had decorated nearly 200 Danish soldiers for valor and heroism during the fighting. Norway agreed to allow its volunteers to remain with the forces in the Murmansk region. The Swedish Government was expanding on the work done by Russian POWs. Sweden had begun to return Russian POWs to Russia after the treaty had been ratified.

[chris N]

1916-1917 Year of Challenge. The ending of the war in the East Presented Sweden with a lot of challenges . Sweden now had a lot more territory and it could use more people. It would take decades for the population of the Empire to grow to enough to make Sweden strong. With the end of the war a lot of the ethnic Germans that had lived in Russia for centuries were being forced to leave. There was bitterness over the war and Revolution was racking Russia. The Czar did not have as firm a grip on the country as he once had. The Duma took power from the Czar and the reforms looked like the country might settle into a constitutional Monarchy. However, there were also forces on the left that wanted to change the entire way that Russia was ruled. They had a considerable number of disaffected soldiers and workers. So the ethnic Germans had even more reasons to flee.

Some fled to Germany but others thought that they might fit in more in the Swedish Kingdom. St Petersburg had lots of vacant housing and many factories were closed. Thus they arrived in the former capital of Imperial Russia. They first had to gain entry past the Swedish Border Guards, who checked everyone out that they were not Red Spies or Russian agents.
The Swedes were busy building fortifications and adjusting to everything.

Sweden was the Scandinavian country with the Largest Military. It continued to expand its air Force incorporating ideas based upon experience in the Great War. Relations with Denmark and Norway continued to move to greater co-operation on Energy and trade.

[Reichenfaust]

Sorry about the non input period, but I am on my weapons artisan course now, and its rather hectic. I really think that you should give italy more territory even though they entered at the last second. Some of that territory is rightfully italy's and the french really have no right having it.

[chris N]

Discussion: To be honest I was of two minds regarding Italy. They waited until the war was nearly won before jumping into it. They had a very difficult time breaking through the French Alp defenses. So much so that they only manage to capture a tiny amount of French territory. Germany was not exactly pleased by Italy's failure to honor the Central Powers alliance and stay out of the war for more than a year. Thus the lack of enthusiastic support of Italian territorial claims on France> Germany did support the claim to French Somali-land . It might have even gone along with France having to give up part of southeastern France but Britain was applying diplomatic pressure to stop that.
Britain seemed to not to want France reduced to a basket case.

Meanwhile things in Russia have not exactly been going well. In the Post War period the Duma took power away from the Czar but then in 1917 Leftist Parties staged a coup in Moscow. Thus began the Russian Civil war.
The Russian Imperial Family was able to escape with the Czar ,his wife and son making it to Tzargrad and his daughters ended up being allowed through the Swedish frontier to The Free City of St Peterburg.

[chris N]

With Some final adjustments to the peace treaty with France things seem to settle down for the rest of Europe. The Outbreak f the Russian Civil war did however cause concern in the capital of Vienna, Berlin < Warsaw, Stockholm and the Baltic Duchy. The Central Powers were still maintaining a military garrison in the Ukraine. Austria_Hungary had 12 Infantry Divisions (each was now equipped with an armored Car Battalion, 2 Cavalry Divisions and Germany had 6 Infantry divisions and 2 Cavalry Divisions. The Royal Ukrainian Army was still organizing and training.
The White Army and the Reds knew that they would have to stay out of the Ukraine and the Baltic States. Sweden for now wasn't worried but it continued to build fortifications and increase the strength of its air Force.

Germany honored its agreement with Great Britain scrapping 6 predreadnoughts and 4 of the earlier Dreadnoughts. It was in the process of building 4 new battleships. It would also be scrapping or selling of 2 old Batlecruisers and replacing them with 2 new ships. Two armored Cruisers were to be scrapped.
Sweden was offered the chance to buy the ships at a cheap price. It would be interested in a battleship but only if Germany wanted to sell one similar to the one built by Sweden based upon a German Design.

[chris N]

The Russian Civil war: The war in Russia was causing a great deal of concern by a lot of the European Powers. The Central Powers had a strong military force in the Ukraine, which caused the Reds and the Whites to stay away. This was especially true after a unit of Red Army troops attacked a town in the Ukraine. They were engaged by Austro_Hungarian and German forces. Out 0f 9,000 Red Army troops barely 1,000 managed to escape.German and Austrian Aircraft kept bombing them even after they were back in Russian Space.
The Kingdom of Poland occupied all of White Russia and annexed it into the Polish Kingdom, The Polish Army proved at this Point to be more than a match for the Reds.
General Eskell Anderson was concern at what was happening on the Russian side of the Border. Three Battalions of Swedish Engineers were building fortifications along the border. He had pulled engineers that had been restoring St Petersburg 's various facilitie to starting to Improve the fortifications. He had received approval to recruit ethnic Germans that had moved to the Former Russian Capital into a new Army Battalion. He had a feeling that he might need every soldier that he could lay his hands on. Two daughters of the Russian Czar had made it across the border and to the Safety of St Petersburg. They were staying at the Winter Palace. Field Marshal Mannerheim was expected to arrive in the city for a talk about the " Russian Problem".

[chris N]

ST Petersburg: General Eskell Anderson was at his Headquarters ( former Swedish Embassy). It was both the Military HQ and the Political Administration Center for the region. Swedish Military Intelligence and the Civilian Side were both quite busy. There was an increasing worry that the Imperials might be killed or Kidnapped by Red Agents. The result was that things were kept hoping. A lot of ethnic Germans had chosen to gone to this city or the new section of the Swedish Kingdom to live and work. They all had to be checked out and screened. A few Russian agents were uncovered but for the most part these new members of the Kingdom had proven to be loyal and model citizens. Some of them had joined the St Petersburg Territorial Guard Battalion that the Swedish General had created. With a war swirling in Russia he felt that he could never have too few soldiers. The former Russian Imperial Capital was a free City in some respects. There were 10,000 Russians that had chosen to stay and they had been joined by 10,000 Scandinavians.20,000 ethnic Germans and then there were citizens from Europe and America.
The Police were kept busy maintaining order and catching people that might sell anything for money.

[chris N]

St Petersburg Part II: The Former Capital of Imperial Russia was a target for a number of People. The Reds goal was to restore it and other parts of Russia . Fot the time being they were forced to use methods like sabotage and terrorism to attempt to make the place unstable.
General Anderson however had steeped up patrol of the border to prevent Red agents from breaking in. He also was increasing the strength of the
St Peterburg Guard. These were recruited from the ethnic Germans that had moved into the country. The General was also requesting the arrival of a military Police Battalion to reinforce the 400 man city police force.
Field Marshal Mannerheim had approved the request and was sending more troops to the region. The Swedish Army's Commander in Chief on the Eastern Front felt that the danger of war with a Red Russia was not likely to take place But if the Reds won the Civil War the chances of war would increase. His recommendation was to continue to strengthen the defenses in the east and be prepared for another war.

[chris N]

Europe 1917-1919 The European Nations were still recovering from the War.
Serbia and Montenegro were now part of the Great Austro-Hungarian Empire. The Death of the Longest serving Emperor in 1916 Franz Jozeph had stunned the Empire and Emperor Karl had brought a lot of changes with his new Federalism. France was still recovering from having lost a second war to the Germans as well as territory to Italy. The British had prevented France from having lost a lot more. Germany had no desire to alienate the British and possible trigger a second war. France was in no condition to start a war, in fact the Republic was going through its third government in two years.
The country was lurching to the left and then the right. Talk was rampant of a restoration of the Monarchy or of a military dictatorship.
Romania had been smart to stay out of the war and now it was benefitting from the Austro-Hungarian Emperor's desire to resolve some of the teritorial disputes between the two. Romania was somewhat concern about the new Kingdom of the Ukraine, which appeared to be dominated by Hapsburgs but even more fearful was that without them being in the Ukraine the Russian Reds might control it and demand things from Romania.
Sweden was riding a wave of Good feelings in Scandinavia over their victory over Russia. There was a great deal of co-operation between the three nations in trade and energy. Sweden and Norway were working on increaing the availablity of electricty to bothe nations. Swedish and Norweigan and Danish Sailors were currently sailing on the new Swedish Battleship. Things were good. But news from Russia seemed to casr a shadow over everything. The Reds were greatly feared and seemed to want to spread the revolution to the west and to add back not only the territory lost in the last war by Russia but more land.
Germany's Kaiser was a happy man he had shown the world that Germany was a power. His son the Crown Prince was concern with what was happening in the East and what germany's role might be in the future.
Crown Price Ruphardt appeared about to become the new King of Bavaria with his father nearing death. He had learned a lot of lessons from the War. Including the fact that victory in the East came due to the Aid of Sweden and Great Britian not being in the war. Yes the Bavarian war a voice of moderation in the Empire.
Well many nations were doing well there were problems in quite a few places- France, Italy, Spain and the former balkan states.
The Ottoman Empire while outwardly appearing stong was in fact a basket case urgently needing reform and foreighn investment. It allowed aid to flow through it to the Russian White as it feared that the Reds would attempt to topple the Empire and spread the Revolution into the Arab Lands. Germany and Britian both had investments in the Empire.

[chris N]

In the Northern part of Russia it appeared that the Reds had not achieved control of Arkhangelsk . Communications had been received by Sweden asking for help in assuring that the Red Army would be prevented from taking the city. It was estimated that the remains of a White Imperialist military garrison was still in control of the port.
Word arrived in St Pettersburg and General Anderson requested a meeting of the Austro-Hungarian and German diplomatic comunity with him and Field Marshal Mannerheim to discuss options. Final approval would have to come from the Central Powers capitals but the meeting would give the Swedish Field Marshal some idea as to what support he could expect.

[chris N]

The Red Menace: While a lot of the governments of Europe were worried about the threat from the East the people of the countries hat had fought the First World War were tired of war and not eager to see themselves dragged into another war. Right now the war between the forces loyal to the Czar and Russia's Government were battling it out with the Revolutionry forces of the Left- The Reds. Germany and Austria-Hungary had only used force when the Reds entered their sphere of influence. But now Sweden reported that the Reds planned to retake all of the lost lands as soon as they finished with the whites and to export the revolution to the rest of the world. Sweden had a limited ability to intervene as it lacked a large military and economic resources to do so. It had demobilized a greater part of its army and was paying off debts that occurred as a result of the war. It also was attempting to strengthen its defenses in the east and replace worn out weapons.
Germany proposed supplying the White forces with captured Russian weapons and munitions so as to keep them in the battle. A White Victory would probably not see the problems that a Red one would.
Germany agreed to support Sweden regarding Arkhangelsk.

[chris N]

Red Menace II: Germany had already dispatched a convoy with troops to the far north. The Force would stop at the New Port Fort Gustav Adolphus ( Murmansk in Our Time Line) before continuing on to Arkhangelsk.
The Germans were sending troops that would be capable of dealing with the Harsh winter of the Far North- German Mountain troops.
Field Marshal Mannerheim had some doubt about the wisdom of getting involved. If one was going to intervene in the Russian Civil War then this was going to mean a massive intervention with lots of troops and the expenditure of treasure and lives. He was not sure if it was worth it.

[chris N]

The Red Menace III: The Swedish Government was having second thoughts about becoming involved in the Russian Civil War. It seemed that Parliamentary members from Estonia and Finland were more likely to support the intervention than those Swedish members from Southern Sweden.
Germany had sent troops to St Petersburg so that they could move to Arkhangelsk from that route. The sea route would take too long.

[chris N]

Sweden's Parliament now debated the policy of intervention in the Russian Civil War. It appeared that the parties of the left were utterly hostile to the idea and stated that they would utterly oppose any expenditure that would support such a move. For those members who represented areas closer to the threat this action resulted in a bitter exchange of words and unbelievably some physical exchanges of blows.
Denmark also was not happy with the idea of Sweden and the Scandinavian nations getting involved in Russia's internal struggle. Some Norwegians however believed that the threat from the East might grow unless something was done now.
The result was that while military spending was not cut limits were placed on what the Royal Swedish Army could do. Missions into Russia would require approval from Stockholm not the Eastern Command Center in Helsinki .
While Field Marshal Mannerheim had his doubts about the wisdom of getting involved in Russia he did not like the fact that he would have to get approval from the military high Command before he did anything.This could very well result in the loss of lives. He wanted some flexibility that would allow him to react to an immediate threat.

[chris N]

The Red Army was becoming aware of Sweden's and Germany's involvement in its Civil war. The Red Army's Minister of War began to take steps to deal with it.

[chris N]

Lenin delivered a stern warning to the Swedish government to stay out of Russia's internal affairs. The Reds were gaining the upper hand in the war.

[chris N]

Sweden was heading to a major political Crisis. The King was siding now with the members who wanted to take a strong stance. Finally a proposal was made that would give the Commander-in-Chief in the East the flexibility that he needed but would prevent the triggering of a larger war without the approval of the Parliament.
Germany was notified of the restrictions place on the Royal Swedish forces so that the expedition to Arkhangelsk might be cancelled but the Germans decided to go ahead. General Anderson told the German commander that should a withdrawal be necessary the Germans would be allowed into the St Petersburg Zone.
A report was that the Red Army was operating some Armored trains

[chris N]

Jn Sweden the Russian Revolution was leading to reforms in the country. Despite the fact that Sweden was part of the victorious powers and had gained territory in the war. There was a desire to show that Sweden could peacefully improve the lot of its people and that it did not need a violent revolution to do so. This once again brought the subject of Swedish involement in Russia to head again.

[pike]

I also apologize i could not comment sooner on your TL access to AH is reather a problem for me as i am sure you can understand. It was really fun catching up on the peace treaty no complants there you have done a awsome job once again of reseting the borders of the world after WW1.
I am glad that you have decided to conitue this TL after WW1 as the rise of the russian reds both profoundly disturb me and compel me to read on.

Love the picture of the amoured train.

[chris N]

With reforms taking place within the Swedish Empire the attention of Parliament was on them. The Social Democrats were pushing the country to reforms that were probably long overdue. The trouble was that some of the members sympathized with the Revolutionaries in Russia failing to see the excesses and the destruction that it was bringing to the country.
The Swedish Military's loyalty was to the Crown and to the country. It was their job to protect the country from threats and for most of the past 200+ years that threat had come from the East. It appeared that many of the officers and professional soldiers still felt that way. Field Marshal Mannerheim attended a conference in which the Swedish Intelligence service painted a clear picture of what they had learned would have been the conditions if the Czar and the Reformed Provisional Government had remained in power.

It was clear that the Russians would have sought the return of St Petersburg and adjustment to the border but they were willing to accept that Russia had lost the war. The Reds on the other hand wanted to take back all of the lost lands and spread the Revolution to the West.
Their goal was nothing less than the overthrow of the Swedish, German and Austo-Hungarian Monarchies. Even now their allies in France were attempting to seize control of France.
Sweden's political parties seemed to not understand the threat. There seemed to be a split between those representatives that represented districts closer to Russia and those further away. Thus Sweden's military must be prepared to fight a war that its government might not want. It would be a tricky line.
Germany was sending military forces to Arkhangelsk and in doing so it was challenging the Reds. Sweden's Parliament had prohibited its army from going deep into Russia. Field Marshal Mannerheim assured the Germans that if they ran into Trouble they might withdraw to the Swedish Border.

General Anderson was using his ethnic German Battalions to carry out missions that were prohibited to the Swedish troops. They were more capable of operating inside Russia since they spoke three languages: German , Russian and now Swedish.

[chris N]

Austria_Hungary was replacing some of its forces in the Ukraine with more reliable troops. Things were Changing in the Empire as Emperor Karl was carrying out reforms to the Empire giving non-Germans and Non Hungarians a say in the Empire. He had also appointed a Czech to his Cabinet. Karl wanted to strengthen the Empires ties to Poland and the Ukraine. His recent actions in allowing those territories that had Poles and Ukrainians to join those countries had started to pay dividends.

[chris N]

As Sweden went through political and social reforms so did a lot of the world. France had since the end of the war swung from the left to the right.
It appeared that no government could last. This of course made Germany and Belgium nervous. Italy got some additional compensation and had not lost a lot of lives so it was weathering the storm.
The Ottoman Empire had been lucky to stay out of the conflict but it would appear that the Bolshevist appeared to be trying to spread unrest by smuggling arms into the country.

Sweden's kind treatment of the Ethnic Russian population in Greater Sweden, as some now called it was having the benefits of not having unrest
In addition the relocating of nearly 100,000 ethnic Germans into the vacant lands had helped to create a loyal population
.Germany was able to occupy Arkhangelsk without any trouble . The White Russian forces welcomed the help although the Germans were quick to take charge.

[pike]

Who is in charge of training the Ukrainian army there going to need one sooner or late to remain inderpendent from the Russians.

[chris N]

The Ukraine: Germany and Austria_Hungary have been co-operating regarding the Ukraine. The Austro-Hungarian Army has taken the lead in training the Ukrainian Royal Army. Germany has provided the weapons . The current size of the Royal Ukrainian Army is 4 divisions of Infantry and 2 Cavalry Brigades. There is discussion within the Central Powess Eastern Command about increasing the size of the Army to 8 Infantry Divisions and 4 Cavalry Brigades so that German and Austro-Hungarian forces could be reduced. The Country has stablized but there have been disagreements regarding who will be the King. The Germans have taken no offical position while the Austrian are leaning toward the son of the Archduke that became the King of Poland. He has been nicknamed the Red Prince and as acted more like a Ukrainian than a Austian .
Currently Germany has more than 7 divisions in the Ukraine and Austria has 14 divisions. Both would like to reduce the size of their occupation forces to save money. But that will depend upon how good the Royal Ukrainian Army is in the face of a Red Army threat.