Three Wishes

[Johanus]

If you coulld change three events in history after 1900 what would they be and why?

[Hörnla]

If you coulld change three events in history after 1900 what would they be and why?

A good question, but the fun in AH is, that one wish is enough.:D

Example:



3rd wish: no Nazi-government in Germany is already taken care of by
2nd wish: no abolishment of the (September-reformed) monarchy in Germany in 1918, which again is unnecessary if
1st wish: no outbreak of WW1

[Historian2011]

No WW 1
No spanish flu
No communism

[Atlantic Friend]

1 - I'd alter the biggest Lottery-Millionaire-whatever game to see if money really, really can't buy happiness

2 - I'd have no WW1. Franz-Ferdinand holds a grandiose dinner at Sarajevo, attended by all heads of states, plus Lazlo Princip and his chaps. Lazlo and the Archduke get drunk together, the Kaiser and President Poincaré invent three new and exciting drinking games before keeling over, and all the guests are arrested for mooning Emperor Franz-Josef at Schönbrunn. After every gazette in the world has published a million articles about it, with engravings of the "Schönbrunn incident" and detailed artistic renditions of the world's most famous derrières, the ruling class wakes up with a colossal hangover and decides to play it quietly for the next two centuries or so, with a tacit renewal clause.

3 - Just to be sure, Adolf Hitler becomes a very successful modern artist, meaning he'd dunk a crucifix in horse piss and claim it's art. He'd have terrible nightmares about it, and would wake up every morning with tears in his eyes and rambling about the beauty of classical art and grandiose architecture, and then bam, he'd receive another modern art prize for his "dog turd in a bowl" nature morte.

[Grey Wolf]

No AIDS isn't really a one-stage wish unless you can pinpoint with certainty where it came from (sex with monkeys or devilish scientist, or whatever)

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Elfwine]

Atlantic Friend's #2 is pretty appealing. Can I say "the same as that" for one of my of wishes, or do I have to be original?

A better fate for the decolonized people would be nice, but I'm not sure what kind of PODs (plural) would trigger it.

No need for a fiery disaster to learn that pure oxygen is too dangerous for space missions.

No Challenger disaster, either.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

No WWI
No Hitler(Which probably would end his career anyway because of no WWI)
No/A lot less tension in the Middle East(how this would be achieved is anyone's guess, but it would be nice to see peace in that region).

[BlairWitch749]

1913: Woodrow Wilson is savagely beaten to death with his own shoes; making Thomas Marshal (who was pro entente, but wouldn't be a defacto war maker) president... a whiteish peace treaty is more likely to emerge... maybe we get to skip communism and nazism as an end result

1946: Mao dies from poisoned rice

1961: Casto dies from an exploding cigar

[Gridley]

If you coulld change three events in history after 1900 what would they be and why?

What are the criteria? Standard non-ASB PoD?

February 1900: Adolf Hitler dies of a case of measles just days after his brother Edmund.

November 1903: 2nd LT Douglas MacArthur is killed by Philippine militants.

Mid-1904: Joseph Stalin is caught and executed by the Russian Okhranka for treason.

That ought to make for a completely different 20th century.

[The Oncoming Storm]

As said earlier no WWI means a totally different 20th Century with Hitler and Stalin living out their lives in relative obscurity. To ensure that WWI never happens your POD means to be pre-1900 such as Napoleon III deciding to ignore the Ems Telegram.

If that isn't possible then;

1. In July 1914 make Churchill realize that rubbing the Turks' noses in it over their new battleship is likely to result in them joining the CP's,
2. In April 1916 the British authorities in Ireland don't over react to the Easter Rising, and
3. In the aftermath of the Beer Hall Putsch have Helene Hanfstaengl fail to convince Hitler not to end it all!

[stevep]

As said earlier no WWI means a totally different 20th Century with Hitler and Stalin living out their lives in relative obscurity. To ensure that WWI never happens your POD means to be pre-1900 such as Napoleon III deciding to ignore the Ems Telegram.

If that isn't possible then;

1. In July 1914 make Churchill realize that rubbing the Turks' noses in it over their new battleship is likely to result in them joining the CP's,
2. In April 1916 the British authorities in Ireland don't over react to the Easter Rising, and
3. In the aftermath of the Beer Hall Putsch have Helene Hanfstaengl fail to convince Hitler not to end it all!

The Oncoming Storm

On 1) I know the pro-German elements in Turkey made propaganda from Britain taking over the ships, as they did for the ones they were building for Chile. Also Churchill was never the most restraint of characters. However what did he do to rub their noses into it?

On 2) How much was it an over-reaction. During a massive war, seen as a fight for survival, an armed uprising is suppressed and some of the people involved are executed. It's difficult to see any nation in Britain's position doing anything less and most would probably do a lot more.

On 3) it sounds attractive but there is the law of unintended consequences. Can you be certain, if WWI and a German defeat along OTL lines hasn't occurred, that you won't end up with a similar bitterly resentful and militaristic Germany that, because one violent demagogue is removed ends up with a more rational and hence far more dangerous leader.;)

Steve

[Cináed]

First up...

- William Paterson is told 'don't be so f**ing stupid' when he suggests that Scotland colonise the isthmus of Panama. Scotland doesn't sink her entire liquid capital into the project, and does not see the need to be browbeaten/bribed/threatened into parliamentary union with England. The Kingdoms of the Isles develop along confederal lines, rather on the basis of incorporative union.

Failing that...

- Napoleon III shuns the Ems Telegram. France takes a temporary prestige hit, but Bismarck emerges looking like an aggressive tool, and is quietly removed from power. Germany eventually develops into something more 'coherent', but not the monster she became in the build up to the 20th century. Peace prevails. No WWI, and no WWII (not as we know them, anyway)

And failing that...

- Britain and France refuse to get involved in WWI. Russia gets stomped by the Central Powers, who liberate most of Eastern Europe from Russian rule and turn it into a series of client states. There is no communist revolution, and the world continues along a slow and steady trajectory towards technological modernity but without the ideological lunacy that so blighted our own timeline.

I could speculate on earlier PODs (killing off Genghis Khan would save millions upon millions of lives), but those are the ones that spring to mind.

[The Oncoming Storm]

The Oncoming Storm

On 1) I know the pro-German elements in Turkey made propaganda from Britain taking over the ships, as they did for the ones they were building for Chile. Also Churchill was never the most restraint of characters. However what did he do to rub their noses into it?

Wasn't it the seizure of the ships that was seen as an insult to the Empire and tipped the balance in favour of the pro-German elements in the government? Turkish neutrality probably means an Entente victory in 1916/17 as a result of an Austro-Hungarian collapse and the Ottoman Empire surviving possibly into the present day.

On 2) How much was it an over-reaction. During a massive war, seen as a fight for survival, an armed uprising is suppressed and some of the people involved are executed. It's difficult to see any nation in Britain's position doing anything less and most would probably do a lot more.

Yes it was inevitable that there would be executions but by executing so many the British created martyrs for Republican propaganda, especially James Connolly who had to be shot tied to a chair as he couldn't stand up after being wounded in the ankle. They also interned hundreds of suspects, many of whom had nothing to do with the Rising and imposed martial law for several months. This antagonised many people who otherwise wouldn't have had any support for Sinn Fein. A crackdown was inevitable but they used a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

On 3) it sounds attractive but there is the law of unintended consequences. Can you be certain, if WWI and a German defeat along OTL lines hasn't occurred, that you won't end up with a similar bitterly resentful and militaristic Germany that, because one violent demagogue is removed ends up with a more rational and hence far more dangerous leader.;)


Agreed and there were plenty of people with crazy ideas at that time but how many were as utterly depraved and batshit insane as Nazism? The most likely outcome for Weimar is that eventually a more authoritarian figure comes to power, but this could have been a more "conventional" fascist closer to Mussolini in outlook or Wilhelmine Imperialists who wouldn't have had Hitler's wilder fantasies. A more rational, calculating dictator may have conducted WWII better than Hitler but equally he probably wouldn't have believed that the "Power of the Will" could overcome strategic realities and could have decided that a full scale war against the major powers was too risky and just settled for carving out a sphere of influence in Eastern Europe without provoking anyone else.

[stevep]

Cináed

This is the post 1900 board and the opening post stresses that he's looking for PODs after 1900. There is another such thread on the pre-1900 board but two of you're three points hence don't apply here.

The problem with the 3rd is it leaves both Britain and France very isolated, both because they now face a massively powerful and probably over-confident Germany and because, having failed to support Russia [to which France has alliance commitments] there is no reason why anyone should trust their words.

True it might take a year or two to cripple Russia but, unless the Central powers really mess things up they will probably win fairly easily as the Russians having been deserted by their western allies will seek to make peace after the early defeats. Hence Germany is not likely to take significant losses before it is free to concentrate on the west.

Steve

First up...

- William Paterson is told 'don't be so f**ing stupid' when he suggests that Scotland colonise the isthmus of Panama. Scotland doesn't sink her entire liquid capital into the project, and does not see the need to be browbeaten/bribed/threatened into parliamentary union with England. The Kingdoms of the Isles develop along confederal lines, rather on the basis of incorporative union.

Failing that...

- Napoleon III shuns the Ems Telegram. France takes a temporary prestige hit, but Bismarck emerges looking like an aggressive tool, and is quietly removed from power. Germany eventually develops into something more 'coherent', but not the monster she became in the build up to the 20th century. Peace prevails. No WWI, and no WWII (not as we know them, anyway)

And failing that...

- Britain and France refuse to get involved in WWI. Russia gets stomped by the Central Powers, who liberate most of Eastern Europe from Russian rule and turn it into a series of client states. There is no communist revolution, and the world continues along a slow and steady trajectory towards technological modernity but without the ideological lunacy that so blighted our own timeline.

I could speculate on earlier PODs (killing off Genghis Khan would save millions upon millions of lives), but those are the ones that spring to mind.

[stevep]

Wasn't it the seizure of the ships that was seen as an insult to the Empire and tipped the balance in favour of the pro-German elements in the government? Turkish neutrality probably means an Entente victory in 1916/17 as a result of an Austro-Hungarian collapse and the Ottoman Empire surviving possibly into the present day.

As I say it was a propaganda point for the pro-German element of the Ottoman government but given Britain was just entering a major war with it's chief naval rival taking over ships it was building in it's own yards was a logical step. It did the same for the two ships being built for Chile and offered them financial compensation. Furthermore one, after an update was returned to Chile after the war. [The other one had been converted to the carrier Eagle so was not suitable for transfer].

Yes it was inevitable that there would be executions but by executing so many the British created martyrs for Republican propaganda, especially James Connolly who had to be shot tied to a chair as he couldn't stand up after being wounded in the ankle. They also interned hundreds of suspects, many of whom had nothing to do with the Rising and imposed martial law for several months. This antagonised many people who otherwise wouldn't have had any support for Sinn Fein. A crackdown was inevitable but they used a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Possibly the interning of so many people afterwards was a mistake, although over-reaction was understandable, if not wise. One of those things governments do at speed then sometimes get the chance to regret at leisure, but not in this case unfortunately.:(

Agreed and there were plenty of people with crazy ideas at that time but how many were as utterly depraved and batshit insane as Nazism? The most likely outcome for Weimar is that eventually a more authoritarian figure comes to power, but this could have been a more "conventional" fascist closer to Mussolini in outlook or Wilhelmine Imperialists who wouldn't have had Hitler's wilder fantasies. A more rational, calculating dictator may have conducted WWII better than Hitler but equally he probably wouldn't have believed that the "Power of the Will" could overcome strategic realities and could have decided that a full scale war against the major powers was too risky and just settled for carving out a sphere of influence in Eastern Europe without provoking anyone else.

That would have been the big danger. That whoever rules the rearmed Germany takes it slowly and steadily and doesn't build up a grand coalition of opponents to take them down. Or alienate potential rivals left, right and centre out of sheer stupidity.

Steve

[Baron Bizarre]

1913: Woodrow Wilson is savagely beaten to death with his own shoes; making Thomas Marshal (who was pro entente, but wouldn't be a defacto war maker) president... a whiteish peace treaty is more likely to emerge... maybe we get to skip communism and nazism as an end result

1946: Mao dies from poisoned rice

1961: Casto dies from an exploding cigar

I can't wait to get my new glasses. I thought you said "Woodrow Wilson is savagely beaten to death by his own shoes".

[Unholy Mistress]

Why does everyone hate Douglas MacArthur,? he's one of the greatest strategic generals in the history of America, one of the greatest in General (no pun intended)


but my three wishes

1. Adolf Hitler dies on April 15th, 1912, well travling to America on the Titantic

2. Franz Ferdinand gets drunk the night before his OTL Assassination, no WWI

3. No Watergate

[Gridley]

Why does everyone hate Douglas MacArthur,? he's one of the greatest strategic generals in the history of America, one of the greatest in General (no pun intended)


Correction: he was the greatest spin doctor ever to wear a general's uniform. I'm prejudiced, I admit: my grandfather (Captain, USN) and father (Captain, US Army) both despised him and considered him a lousy senior officer. As they're the ones who taught me my early military history...

[Unholy Mistress]

Correction: he was the greatest spin doctor ever to wear a general's uniform. I'm prejudiced, I admit: my grandfather (Captain, USN) and father (Captain, US Army) both despised him and considered him a lousy senior officer. As they're the ones who taught me my early military history...


Well that's no reason for the one of the above posters three wishes to be he had died, MacArthur was nothing like Hitler (well then again, I never knew him, lol)

[Gridley]

Well that's no reason for the one of the above posters three wishes to be he had died, MacArthur was nothing like Hitler (well then again, I never knew him, lol)

No, Mac wasn't in the same league as Hitler and Stalin. However, he still did an awful lot of damage to the US culture, and sheltered the Japanese royal family from their crimes, among other sins.

If I could only kill one person after 1900, it would be Hitler, no questions, no doubts, no hesitation, and I'd happily look him in the eye while I pulled the trigger. Its a trope, but there's a good reason for that. 2nd victim is Stalin, again no question.

The 3rd, however, is entering a new realm. For the sake of symmetry, I wanted to make the 3rd wish a 3rd death. But I'm not familiar with anyone post 1900 who's in the same league as Hitler and Stalin. I've also done the world two huge favors (assuming someone even worse doesn't take their place), but I haven't done much for my own country (the US). Again for the sake of balance, I wanted a target prior to 1910. Quite a lot of people I'd like to do away with weren't born yet. However Mac was alive, actually could have very easily died in that timeframe, and seemed like a good choice that met all my limited criteria, including being someone I wanted dead based on the knowledge in my head.

[Unholy Mistress]

Ok maybe Mac was not the best person morally, but I belive no one else could have lead America in the Pacific unless you get Eisenhower over there (which is unlikely) You do away with Mac, its possible Japan rules the world or alest alot

[Gridley]

Ok maybe Mac was not the best person morally, but I belive no one else could have lead America in the Pacific unless you get Eisenhower over there (which is unlikely) You do away with Mac, its possible Japan rules the world or alest alot

You ARE joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.

[Unholy Mistress]

You ARE joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.


maybe about the Japan ruling the world part, but MacArthur was the only one suted to lead America in the Pacific in WWII

[Gridley]

maybe about the Japan ruling the world part, but MacArthur was the only one suted to lead America in the Pacific in WWII

OK, I'm still hoping you're joking (ever hear of a guy named Nimitz?).

[Unholy Mistress]

OK, I'm still hoping you're joking (ever hear of a guy named Nimitz?).


Ok Nimitz could have lead the Pacific fleet of the Navy, but in my mind, ive always thought MacArthur is one of the greatest Generals in US History (Behind Washington, Grant, Sherman, and Patton) morally and as a general

[Gridley]

Ok Nimitz could have lead the Pacific fleet of the Army, but in my mind, ive always thought MacArthur is one of the greatest Generals in US History (Behind Washington, Grant, Sherman, and Patton) morally and as a general

The Pacific Fleet of the Army? OK, now you're just trolling.

[Unholy Mistress]

The Pacific Fleet of the Army? OK, now you're just trolling.


Im not trolling, and I meant Navy, not Army

[Gridley]

Im not trolling, and I meant Navy, not Army

No, I'm still leaning towards "you're trolling" because Nimitz was in command of PacFleet in OTL, not Mac! So the whole "no one else could have lead the US in the Pacific" is garbage because someone else did it IOTL!!

[Fenrir_Angerboda]

No, I'm still leaning towards "you're trolling" because Nimitz was in command of PacFleet in OTL, not Mac! So the whole "no one else could have lead the US in the Pacific" is garbage because someone else did it IOTL!!

with Respect to Ms. Abby, she does make those sort of mistakes alot.
I don't think she's trolling, she just doesn't know what she's talking about.

[Gridley]

with Respect to Ms. Abby, she does make those sort of mistakes alot.
I don't think she's trolling, she just doesn't know what she's talking about.

To paraphrase Prof. Kirke: "What are they teaching in schools these days?"

Sigh.

[Unholy Mistress]

To paraphrase Prof. Kirke: "What are they teaching in schools these days?"

Sigh.



I don't go to College, I have a full time job in the mornings

[Elfwine]

Isn't WWII usually covered pre-college?

As for MacArthur: I don't know much about the Pacific theater, but I have trouble imagining that there could only be one possible leader there.

And that's assuming MacArthur was capable for the sake of allowing someone else to argue against it.

[The Vulture]

I don't go to College, I have a full time job in the mornings

This is stuff you could easily look up on wikipedia or read a book about.

[Unholy Mistress]

This is stuff you could easily look up on wikipedia or read a book about.



well all the history books ve read or info ive gotten has a bunch of mentions of MacArthur and how great of a general he was, Never really talks about the others who lead in the Pacific, just ole Mac, so maybe I have a built up belief in Mac's greatness?

[colleen1227]

Wish 1) The 1913 change that allowed the direct election of US Senators does not happen-Why, It would keep the Senators directly responsible to their states for their re-election and not be Senators for the whole US.
Wish 2 -T Roosevelt's confiscating State's land for Federal parks is found Unconstitutional on the grounds that it violates the 10th Amendment. Why-Keep the Fed from stopping the economic growth of the Western States.
Wish 3 -The case of the US against Miller is not overturned. Why-It would stop the Fed from violating our 2 nd Amendment rights .

[Unholy Mistress]

Wish 1) The 1913 change that allowed the direct election of US Senators does not happen-Why, It would keep the Senators directly responsible to their states for their re-election and not be Senators for the whole US.
Wish 2 -T Roosevelt's confiscating State's land for Federal parks is found Unconstitutional on the grounds that it violates the 10th Amendment. Why-Keep the Fed from stopping the economic growth of the Western States.
Wish 3 -The case of the US against Miller is not overturned. Why-It would stop the Fed from violating our 2 nd Amendment rights .


WTF? ARE you serious?

[A Random Person]

1948: Isreal not formed.
1917: A stronger Spanish Flu (depopulate the planet a bit and end WWI early)
2000: Gore wins.

[DAMIEN]

The original chinese revolution in the early 1900s succeeds and does not fall apart. China ends up better off.

People realize what modern weapons will do with regards to warfare and so do not get involved in ww1

Decolonization never happens but a gradual actual growth of nations happens within the colonies so they end up more like Canada then Zimbabwe

[pieman97405]

Wish one: 1950's culture never ends.
Wish two: The United States stays an industrial powerhouse.
Wish three: Less use of plastics.

[The Vulture]

Wish one: 1950's culture never ends.


Yep, nothing like institutionalized racism and homophobia, rampant waste of natural resources, arms races, and out-of-control Communist witchhunts. The good old days.

[The Kiat]

After 1900 huh.... well, first off, I'd go back to 2008 and see if I can keep the one who got away from getting away. If things worked out, I certainly would have married her by now, and be a father. Why, you ask; simple, to improve my life.

Whoa, I still have two wishes. What else is there I'd want to change?

[stevep]

After 1900 huh.... well, first off, I'd go back to 2008 and see if I can keep the one who got away from getting away. If things worked out, I certainly would have married her by now, and be a father. Why, you ask; simple, to improve my life.

Whoa, I still have two wishes. What else is there I'd want to change?

The Kiat

Well in my case I'ld be going back 30 years further but that idea has some promise.:D Only problem is doing anything earlier, such as avoiding/mitigating the two world wars would butterfly both of us. Quite a moral question.:(

Steve

[Gridley]

I don't go to College, I have a full time job in the mornings

I wasn't referring to college. History (in theory) is taught in grade school and high school.

And on an unrelated note, this thread went downhill fast. Seriously, a stronger Spanish Flu? Less use of plastics?!?

[Johanus]

(1) World Zionist Movement votes to accepts Britain's offer of a Jewish State in Uganda in 1905 (hey...think about it!)

(2) Someone buys some of Hitler's art inspiring him to go on to become a poor mediocre artist as well as a source of cheap labour for his friend Himmler's failed chicken farm venture :D

(3) Lenin doesnt get his 'sealed train' through Germany leading to the failure of the Russian Revolution and the establishment of several socially progressive eastern european states by the 1930's

[Johanus]

After 1900 huh.... well, first off, I'd go back to 2008 and see if I can keep the one who got away from getting away.

Hey Gridley I personally think this when the wheels really fell off this thread! :D

[Monty Burns]

1) Britain decides to enter an alliance with Germany in 1903. This should certainly butterfly away WWI as we know it and most likely also communism in Russia.

2) a Jewish state in North-Western Australia (Uganda is more interesting, but would there be much different other than that the African natives do not have some oil states to back them?)

3) my maternal grandfather never smokes and as a result might never get cancer.

[Wendell]

1. The League of Nations stands up for the independence and sovereignty of member state Ethiopia instead of discrediting itself.

2. The U.S. stays out of the First World War/Wilson loses the Democratic nomination to Clark in 1912, who goes on to win the presidency that year.

3. U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater adds the "right to work" amendment he proposed for, but later withdrew from, the 1957 Civil Rights Act to the 1964 one, which he then votes for, deciding that he's mitigated some of the concerns which prompted his vote against it in our timeline.

[The Kiat]

I guess it's all about what's important to you. :)

The Kiat

Well in my case I'ld be going back 30 years further but that idea has some promise.:D Only problem is doing anything earlier, such as avoiding/mitigating the two world wars would butterfly both of us. Quite a moral question.:(

Steve

Hey Gridley I personally think this when the wheels really fell off this thread! :D

"Think of all the lives you'll change/ruin!"

Yeah, and think about the life I'd improve!

[colleen1227]

I am very serious. If Sates what to buy land to setup parks in their States that is their right. To have the Federal govt. do it by extra constitutional measures is wrong. To have the Fed confiscate up to 80% of a State's land is not only morally wrong but, an economic hardship for said State.

[FDW]

1) Kill J Edgar Hoover in 1964

2) Prevent Malcolm X's assassination.

3) Have someone convince MLK to go into politics.

[Hörnla]

I am very serious. If Sates what to buy land to setup parks in their States that is their right. To have the Federal govt. do it by extra constitutional measures is wrong. To have the Fed confiscate up to 80% of a State's land is not only morally wrong but, an economic hardship for said State.

The bustling metropolis which would otherwise certainly have developed in the Grand Canyon is certainly a sight I would have liked to see.

[The Vulture]

1) Kill J Edgar Hoover in 1964


Why so late? He was operating as early as 1922, helping the GID orchestrate the Palmer Raids.

[FDW]

Why so late? He was operating as early as 1922, helping the GID orchestrate the Palmer Raids.

More dramatic this way. (And not very many people were choosing POD's after 1950)

[Wendell]

I am very serious. If Sates what to buy land to setup parks in their States that is their right. To have the Federal govt. do it by extra constitutional measures is wrong. To have the Fed confiscate up to 80% of a State's land is not only morally wrong but, an economic hardship for said State.

The best part is that the people who advocate the strongest for having the federal government buy up the West are the same who complain when their states are expected to subsidize poorer ones.

[Evil Doctor]

Lets see...

1) The Hamilton Tigers never relocate to New York City in 1925 and remain in the NHL to the present.

2) ....? No, I'm good with that....

:)

[Johanus]

2) a Jewish state in North-Western Australia (Uganda is more interesting, but would there be much different other than that the African natives do not have some oil states to back them?)

3) my maternal grandfather never smokes and as a result might never get cancer.

I think Australia's "White Australia' Policy after the WW2 might have messed that POD up abit though a sizable Jewish pop did settle in Melbourne as I understand it.

Your last wish...oh ma-an. :(

[fastmongrel]

Can I have a 1895 change go on its only 5 years too early

1) There is no split in Rugby football over payment for playing. The Rugby authorities see sense and allow broken time payments no 100 years of conflict no shamateurism no banning people from playing. Rugby grows in popularity and becomes the world game. No cry baby overpaid oversexed soccer players and a world mercifully free of Sepp Blatter and his corrupt cronies.

2) No deregulation of the worlds financial systems.

3) Justin Bieber has his tonsils removed at the age of 7 the operation goes wrong and he loses his voice the world is saved from a terrible fate.

[Xnyrax]

1) Mussolini never leaves the Italian Socialists or dies of a heart attack brought on by being a huge fat douchebag, subsequently allowing fascism to stay as an actual Third Way movement, rather than just right-wing totalitarianism masquerading as something good and wholesome.

2) Stalin is killed in 1925, allowing the USSR to become an actual centralized communist democracy and a major, anti-colonialist world power.

3) The Mongols don't stop at Vienna and proceed to ravage all of Europe, destroying Christendom permanently(sans Scandinavia and the British Isles). Eurasia is subsequently united under a powerful Mongol Khanate, and trade and culture begin to flourish once more across all Eurasia. Later on, the Mongols will colonize the New World, and will not have the technological ability to completely destroy most of the New World's natives, allowing native nation-states to rise up throughout Mesoamerica, the Great Lakes, and elsewhere. By 2011, the world is a peaceful patchwork of multireligious, multiethnic empires, while national boundaries are quickly beginning to mean nothing. Technology is similar to the 1950s, with some anachronisms and leaps forward. The grand global empires have begun to "outsource" competition that would otherwise explode into violence into peace competition for territory in outer space, as the Space Race begins to heat up between the Mongols, the Japanese, the Ayutthayans, the Bantu Federation, the Aztecs, the Maya, the Long House Federation, the Likan-antay (in South America), and the Polynesians.

Truly a glorious world. :)

[Wendell]

This is an unintentionally hilarious thread.

[A Random Person]

Now for my REAL 3 wishes

1) PM Tommy Douglas
2) Hitler gets accepted to art school
3) Marxist theory is discredited (But communism is still accepted outside of Marxism)

[Mauro Motta]

1948: Isreal not formed.
1917: A stronger Spanish Flu (depopulate the planet a bit and end WWI early) My grandmother had spanish flu and almost died. A stronger spanish flu and she would have died for sure.

[Mauro Motta]

Correction: he was the greatest spin doctor ever to wear a general's uniform. I'm prejudiced, I admit: my grandfather (Captain, USN) and father (Captain, US Army) both despised him and considered him a lousy senior officer. As they're the ones who taught me my early military history...Yeah, everybody knows that. Why, without him, why would americans enter in war with Viet Nam?
Yes, he and other guys who engendered that war were certainly the worst
officers (and politicians) ever!

[Paladin]

1) Mussolini never leaves the Italian Socialists or dies of a heart attack brought on by being a huge fat douchebag, subsequently allowing fascism to stay as an actual Third Way movement, rather than just right-wing totalitarianism masquerading as something good and wholesome.

2) Stalin is killed in 1925, allowing the USSR to become an actual centralized communist democracy and a major, anti-colonialist world power.

3) The Mongols don't stop at Vienna and proceed to ravage all of Europe, destroying Christendom permanently(sans Scandinavia and the British Isles). Eurasia is subsequently united under a powerful Mongol Khanate, and trade and culture begin to flourish once more across all Eurasia. Later on, the Mongols will colonize the New World, and will not have the technological ability to completely destroy most of the New World's natives, allowing native nation-states to rise up throughout Mesoamerica, the Great Lakes, and elsewhere. By 2011, the world is a peaceful patchwork of multireligious, multiethnic empires, while national boundaries are quickly beginning to mean nothing. Technology is similar to the 1950s, with some anachronisms and leaps forward. The grand global empires have begun to "outsource" competition that would otherwise explode into violence into peace competition for territory in outer space, as the Space Race begins to heat up between the Mongols, the Japanese, the Ayutthayans, the Bantu Federation, the Aztecs, the Maya, the Long House Federation, the Likan-antay (in South America), and the Polynesians.

Truly a glorious world. :)

First off, Mongols are pre-1900, so you might want to move that wish to the other thread for this sort of thing. Secondly, what is it with people thinking that the Mongols will somehow bring peace and stability if they just conquered a bit more? Want to see what happens to a land after being under Mongol rule? Look at Central Asia. Ever heard of Merv? It was once the center of civilization in Eurasia. Know why you haven't heard of it? Cause it was leveled by the Mongols, and all that knowledge and innovation and idea exchange was burned. The Mongols have done very little in the long run to foster any kind of peace.

As for the other two, eh, maybe. I could see Fascism becoming a respectable ideology (Geekhis Khan's Duce Balboa TL does an excellent job of that), but to make a democratic USSR I think you'd have to go back to the Revolution. The Bolsheviks were just too ready and willing to use violence as their first and only solution.

[Gridley]

Yeah, everybody knows that. Why, without him, why would americans enter in war with Viet Nam?
Yes, he and other guys who engendered that war were certainly the worst
officers (and politicians) ever!

??? Even I don't fault Mac for Vietnam. Also, while we were on the wrong side in Vietnam, the politicians who put us there still hardly rate a "worst" rating. Bad, certainly, but worst is a tough sell.

[flippikat]

1 - The BBC policy to wipe tapes in the 1960s & 1970s stopped before being carried out.. Maybe a government MP hears about it and gets the BBC rules changed in order to preserve content.

No 2 or 3.. Just this one right now..

[couldawouldashoulda]

1. Emergence of a strong progressive third party in US politics... somehow
2. Vastly different infrastructure development in US
3. Spread of Atheism

[Evil Doctor]

2) Okay, got a number two...All fanfic is deleted from the internet.

3) TBD...

[John Fredrick Parker]

1. Mao loses -- Easier PoD, from what I see, is the defeat of the communists in the Fifth Encirclement Campaign, stopping the Long March before it starts; this makes for Chiang running China after WWII, and a very different Cold War, just about undoing the US Red Scare (1949-54).

2. Stop the incarceration explosion in the US -- Some good PoDs may be stopping the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr.; if that doesn't work, stopping the JFK assassination could also work (making the 1960's more manageable as a whole).

3. No President Reagan -- Good, late PoD here is Ford beats Carter in 76; reason this is good is we're likely to avoid Laffler's influence (or at least dominion of the right), and keeping the momentum the 70's brought to transforming our energy economy.

BONUS: Theodore Roosevelt wins the Republican Nomination 1912 -- Worth it alone for no President Wilson...

[Riain]

Railways and tramways don't get the shaft via legislation in the rush to embrace the car and plane.

Gen Percival is a vigourous and competent general who throws himself at the task of training his army and adjusting the plans to suit his circumstances. As a result the Japanese army's offensive runs out of steam 100km from Singapore, the Sumatra invasion convoy is destroyed by Force Z and the FEF sinks a pair of IJN heavy cruisers during desultory engagements in the Indian Ocean. The entire Pacific war is changed for the better.

Ferrari builds 21 350 P4 in response to the April 1968 FIA ruling on sports car homologation, and the 350 P4 wins Le Mans in 1969.

[Mikestone8]

BONUS: Theodore Roosevelt wins the Republican Nomination 1912 -- Worth it alone for no President Wilson...


Trouble is that that is by no means guaranteed.

It's instructive to look at the two states where Taft was not on the ballot in 1912, so that there was essentially a straight fight between Wilson and TR. California, which Taft had carried in 1908 by almost two to one, was a statistical tie, while in South Dakota there was a shift of over ten percentage points to the Democrats from 1908. A similar shift nationwide (or indeed a much smaller one) would have produced a Democratic victory even in a straight fight with TR.

If you want to get rid of Wilson there are quite a few easier ways of doing it. To give but three -

1) Wilson dies or is disabled before the 1912 Convention. What we know of his health record suggests this is entirely possible.

2) Mrs Wilson (his first wife Ellen, not Edith) dies shortly before the Convention. He will be completely prostrated, as he was when she actually died in 1914. It's probably too late for him to just quit right away, but when Clark attains a majority vote on the ninth ballot, Wilson almost certainly concedes.

3) William Jennings Bryan suffers a serious illness in 1908 (perhaps some bug picked up on his recent world tour) and cannot run for President. Whoever runs in his place loses to Taft much as he himself did. The Democrats have thus tried two men other than Bryan, and both have lost more heavily than he did in even 1900, let alone 1896. By 1912 Bryan is recovered and his supporters are raring to go. He is nominated on the first ballot.