Future EU State: Republic or Parliamentary Monarchy?

[fortyseven]

What does the Constitution say?

If the future EU State is a Prliamentary Monarchy will there be an actual Emperor of Europe?

[benedict XVII]

What does the Constitution say?

If the future EU State is a Prliamentary Monarchy will there be an actual Emperor of Europe?

There is a Chairman of the Council of Heads of States and Governments, appointed for three years by said Council and approved by Parliament. At least that's what the Constitutional treaty says if it gets passed.

Currently, the Chairman is the head of the Government in charge on a rotational 6-months basis.

Some people toyed with the idea of a monarchy, even giving the crown to the House of Luxembourg. Was never taken seriously, I'm afraid.

[fortyseven]

I think there should be one. Be cool to have an Emperor of Europe :D

[benedict XVII]

I think there should be one. Be cool to have an Emperor of Europe :D

Why don't you anoint the Bushes in the US?

[Susano]

What future EU state? There wont be no further EU state! Hmpf. SOME sane countries will always shoot down the next attempts to a constitution.

[Leo Caesius]

Why don't you anoint the Bushes in the US?I tell you what - you can have them. Honestly. Now, stop, before you say anything - there's no need to thank us. I'm sure you'll put them to better use than we have.

[Sargon]

Some people toyed with the idea of a monarchy, even giving the crown to the House of Luxembourg. Was never taken seriously, I'm afraid.

Giving it to Otto von Habsburg would make sense. He used to be a member of the European Parliament, and as the son of Karl I has all the imperial and royal credentials for the job, especially since his family used to be Holy Roman Emperors.

Of course, it'll never happen...

Sargon

[Leo Caesius]

Yes, and he himself would make a great symbol for the new Europe - bridging the gap between East and West, multilingual, highly intelligent, extremely sophisticated, and devastatingly charming, from what I hear.

Of course, I doubt very much that monarchy is in the cards for Europe or many other new countries in the future.

[Sargon]

Good points Leo. And you are right about monarchies being unlikley to be restored. Although there are the recent examples of Spain, Buganda, and Cambodia, it seems remote.

I remember back in 1989 when predictions were being made about Bulgaria and Romania, amongst others, restoring their monarchies...never happened, although former monarchs King Michael and King Simeon have returned and have not done badly for themselves.

Funnily enough it would appear that there is a small, yet growing chance of a restoration in Serbia with Crown Prince Alexander, who's popularity is apparently rising. He's got his royal palace back too.

They missed a chance in Afghanistan with King Zahir Shah, since his return he is now called 'Father of the Nation'. Apparently, Hamid Karzai is some sort of relation to him...

Sargon

[fortyseven]

Why don't you anoint the Bushes in the US?

ACKKKK, I'm not American!, not that there's anything wrong with that!

[Steffen]

The unelected head of state will be adressed as "comrade secretary general".

They have already a rubber-stamping parliament, an uncontrolled bureaucracy, commissars and they issue 5-year plans.

(rant mode off)

OvH would be interesting. Although as he´s well over 90, they would have to choose the north Korean variant where being dead doesn´t exclude one from holding office.
north Korea- hm, I think that´s what the creators of common agrarian policy have in mind as ultimate goal...

[fortyseven]

Does Otto have any sensible, likable kids or grandkids?

[Steffen]

Does Otto have any sensible, likable kids or grandkids?

7 children and 22 grandchildren according a quick search, but no-one who´s politically prominent

[Hendryk]

The unelected head of state will be adressed as "comrade secretary general".

They have already a rubber-stamping parliament, an uncontrolled bureaucracy, commissars and they issue 5-year plans.
Yeah, we EU citizens sure live in a nasty dictatorship :rolleyes:
In fact you're probably posting this from a detention camp for political dissidents, aren't you? Nice of them to let you go online every once in a while, though of course communications are carefully monitored. (Don't mind me, Comrade officer, I carefully toe the party line)

[Steffen]

Yeah, we EU citizens sure live in a nasty dictatorship :rolleyes:
In fact you're probably posting this from a detention camp for political dissidents, aren't you? Nice of them to let you go online every once in a while, though of course communications are carefully monitored. (Don't mind me, Comrade officer, I carefully toe the party line)



THIS IS RADIO FREE EUROPE WITH A BROADCAST FOR OUR FRIENDS IN THE UNDERGROUND IN THE OCCUPIED COUNTRIES...


And actually, I live in a country which has a major deficit in affairs concerning the EU.
Chance on voting on the constitution 0
Number of Anti-EU parties: 0
Number of EU- critical newspapers: 0

Of course, there are reports on, say, corruption scandals in Brussels or wasted money, but it´s a perestroika variant: some people act as they shouldn´t, but the system works.

At least I´m not so far from the swiss border...

[Hendryk]

And actually, I live in a country which has a major deficit in affairs concerning the EU.
Chance on voting on the constitution 0
Number of Anti-EU parties: 0
Number of EU- critical newspapers: 0
I'm sure the British will gladly let you have the UKIP, the Sun, the Daily Telegraph and all the rest of it. Getting rid of their crackpots by sending them overseas has been a tradition at least since the Mayflower. But think twice before you ask them. If there's one thing the British anti-Europeans hate even more than the EU, it's the Germans :rolleyes: Don't you know anyway? The EU is a German plot to bring back the Third Reich through the back door...
I recommand you read The Aachen Memorandum by Robert Harris. Published in 1995, it tried to be the next 1984 but looks more like the Euroskeptics' version of The Turner Diaries. It's about how miserable life will be for proud, freedom-lovin' Brits in the future when they groan under the despotism of the European Superstate "or the Fourth Reich as the Germans call it when they think no-one's listening" as the main character puts it at one point.

[Steffen]

Actually, I´m convinced the "european idea" is a put everything under the command of greek socialists, french socialists, swedish socialists and french conservatives which to me are indistinguishable from socialists. As their tool they use politicians resurrected from their graves like Erwin Teufel or Giscard d`Estaing who use the coffee breaks to share their memories from the franco-german war.

[Hendryk]

Actually, I´m convinced the "european idea" is a put everything under the command of greek socialists, french socialists, swedish socialists and french conservatives which to me are indistinguishable from socialists.
Meanwhile, the socialists and assorted radical left-wingers think of the EU as a tool of neoliberalism to impose market-friendly reforms by stealth. You guys should get your story straight.
Why do you think the constitutional treaty was turned down in the French and Dutch referendums? It was seen as too right-wing...

[Steffen]

What do you mean "you should get your story right." I´m not in camp with the silly attac idiots.

BTW, I have to give you the credit for being one of the few euro-enthusiasts who doesn´t operate under the pretense that the "no" side wasn´t speaking about europe but was rather voting no on any other issue besides the actual question.

[Hendryk]

What do you mean "you should get your story right." I´m not in camp with the silly attac idiots.
Oh, I wasn't implying that you were. It just never ceases to amaze me that the anti-Europeans are a motley crew of radicals from both extremes of the political spectrum, who only seem to agree when it comes to ganging up against the moderates in the middle. In France we had the neo-fascists of the National Front and the Communists marching side by side against the constitutional treaty, along with the monarchist restorationists, the Troskyists and the anarchists. And some of what you in Germany would call "fundamentalist environmentalists" thrown in for flavor. Their arguments, predictably, were a mess of contradictory and mutually exclusive ideas: Europe, according to them, is both a Trojan horse for global capitalism and a Marxist conspiracy; it's both a tool of godless secularists and of the Catholic Church; and it will both oppress the workers and stifle the business owners.
So I hope you'll forgive me for getting a little confused here.

BTW, I have to give you the credit for being one of the few euro-enthusiasts who doesn´t operate under the pretense that the "no" side wasn´t speaking about europe but was rather voting no on any other issue besides the actual question.
Thanks, but I don't think I qualify as a "Euro-enthusiast", if such a person exists at all. I have studied European politics long enough to know that the process has plenty of faults, and that the EU decision-making process has screwed up fairly often. I know about the excesses of comitology, of the opacity of the Commission's bureaucracy, and what have you. I just happen to think, having looked long and hard at the whole thing, that it can and should be given a chance to reform and improve.

[Smuz]

I tell you what - you can have them ... I'm sure you'll put them to better use than we have.

To the salt mines with them, comerades!

[Sargon]

Good grief, why does nearly every interesting topic have to degenerate into an argument about politics or something? It's damn depressing...just want to see speculation about something...can't people detach themselves and be neutral about it? Hey guys, let's control those political urges and make an effort to analyse something objectively, ok? C'mon, give it a try, you know it makes sense :)

And before anyone asks, I have no opinion on European politics either way, as I've said before many times here, I'm not a political animal. I am merely fascinated by what if there was a monarch, since this was an unusual take on it, and discussing a hypothetical candidate would be interesting, especially since a monarch as head is almost certainly never going to happen.

Now, what other candidates could there be? How about the Duke of Alba...isn't that one of the oldest titles in Europe? Aren't the Danish and Dutch monarchies quite popular? I know that some Germans have a fascination with the British monarchy, since it is of German descent.

Can we get back to that then? Is it too much to expect?

Cheers,

Sargon

[Leo Caesius]

Now, what other candidates could there be? How about the Duke of Alba...isn't that one of the oldest titles in Europe? Aren't the Danish and Dutch monarchies quite popular? I know that some Germans have a fascination with the British monarchy, since it is of German descent.I understand that the Savoiards were the longest ruling house in Europe.

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Well, once Turkey is admitted, Muslims will quickly become the majority so it should be the House of Osman. They can be established in Istanbul with a summer residence in Vienna.

Good grief, why does nearly every interesting topic have to degenerate into an argument about politics or something? It's damn depressing...just want to see speculation about something...can't people detach themselves and be neutral about it? Hey guys, let's control those political urges and make an effort to analyse something objectively, ok? C'mon, give it a try, you know it makes sense :)

And before anyone asks, I have no opinion on European politics either way, as I've said before many times here, I'm not a political animal. I am merely fascinated by what if there was a monarch, since this was an unusual take on it, and discussing a hypothetical candidate would be interesting, especially since a monarch as head is almost certainly never going to happen.

Now, what other candidates could there be? How about the Duke of Alba...isn't that one of the oldest titles in Europe? Aren't the Danish and Dutch monarchies quite popular? I know that some Germans have a fascination with the British monarchy, since it is of German descent.

Can we get back to that then? Is it too much to expect?

Cheers,

Sargon

[Sargon]

I understand that the Savoiards were the longest ruling house in Europe.

That's interesting, I did not know that. Who is the current head of the family? I forget at the moment, though I'm sure I'll kick myself when I remember.

Sargon

[Sargon]

Well, once Turkey is admitted, Muslims will quickly become the majority so it should be the House of Osman. They can be established in Istanbul with a summer residence in Vienna.

Thanks Pasha, another feasible candidate for the future. The House of Osman has a good pedigree. They used to hold the title Kayser I Rum, right? So that would be appropriate.

Sargon

[Weapon M]

They should get all these Royal Houses together, and make a reality TV show, "Who Wants To Be The Emperor?"....It could be like Fear Factor, Big Brother, and Real World all rolled into one...

I would watch the shit out of this, I tellya...

[Susano]

*smacks Steffen over the head*

And thats why we have no anti-EU sentiment. Because SOME anti-EU debattors are an embarassmenttoi the rest....

Now, I think the European idea started as a french attempt at, lets say, gaining influence, but it grew over even their heads. What we hav enow is some undescribable conglomerate of corporate interests and small countries gettinga role not appropriate to eithe rpopulation count or economical strength...

As for a ruling house, yeah, Id favour some Nassau line. That might be because I am from what was Nassau after 1815, but, meh :P . Can be the Dutch or Luxembourg lines even, heh.

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

I would think the only possible house would be the Luxumbourg line - with an imperial past, and no strong historical tie to a real country (unlike the Hapsburgs).

*smacks Steffen over the head*

And thats why we have no anti-EU sentiment. Because SOME anti-EU debattors are an embarassmenttoi the rest....

Now, I think the European idea started as a french attempt at, lets say, gaining influence, but it grew over even their heads. What we hav enow is some undescribable conglomerate of corporate interests and small countries gettinga role not appropriate to eithe rpopulation count or economical strength...

As for a ruling house, yeah, Id favour some Nassau line. That might be because I am from what was Nassau after 1815, but, meh :P . Can be the Dutch or Luxembourg lines even, heh.

[Steffen]

*smacks Steffen over the head*

And thats why we have no anti-EU sentiment. Because SOME anti-EU debattors are an embarassmenttoi the rest....

Now, I think the European idea started as a french attempt at, lets say, gaining influence, but it grew over even their heads. What we hav enow is some undescribable conglomerate of corporate interests and small countries gettinga role not appropriate to eithe rpopulation count or economical strength...

As for a ruling house, yeah, Id favour some Nassau line. That might be because I am from what was Nassau after 1815, but, meh :P . Can be the Dutch or Luxembourg lines even, heh.

Well some eurosceptics I could mention surely are in hiding as they are wanted by the spelling police.

(Hits Susano with a metal-framed A0 poster rack showing Angela Merkel over the head).
Got the thing also in orange if you need another one.

[Steffen]

Well, once Turkey is admitted, Muslims will quickly become the majority so it should be the House of Osman. They can be established in Istanbul with a summer residence in Vienna.

#Steffens reads it, and starts running around screaming in terror.#

[Susano]

OMG IZ TEH SEPLLING PLIC3!!11111
:P

Well, in any case, proclaiming the EU is one big socialist conspiracy is NOT helping things... nor is it true, either.

[Steffen]

OMG IZ TEH SEPLLING PLIC3!!11111
:P

Well, in any case, proclaiming the EU is one big socialist conspiracy is NOT helping things... nor is it true, either.


Rule No1: stupidest argument wins.

Dramatic pause.

Transform to KINDERGARTEN MODE.

Yes it is. You are stupid.

[Leo Caesius]

That's interesting, I did not know that. Who is the current head of the family? I forget at the moment, though I'm sure I'll kick myself when I remember.Vittorio Emmanuele IV, son of the former King of Italy, Umberto II. The line was initiated by Humbert Whitehands, Duke of Sabaudia (Savoy) in 1032 and came out of power only in 1946 with the abolition of the Italian monarchy.

[Sargon]

I would think the only possible house would be the Luxumbourg line - with an imperial past, and no strong historical tie to a real country (unlike the Hapsburgs).

You make a good point there. Maybe the Habsurgs have too much baggage, still, Otto von Habsburg is still fascinating. I guess the Luxembourg line would be more acceptable though.

How would such a system work? Would there be an oath of allegiance?

Sargon

[Grimm Reaper]

The EU shall be a theocracy under the Archprimate Hendryk of the Church of Whatianity, whose first act shall be to take Canada under the EU's protection from the dread Howery Administration south of the 49th Parallel.

[Sargon]

Vittorio Emmanuele IV, son of the former King of Italy, Umberto II. The line was initiated by Humbert Whitehands, Duke of Sabaudia (Savoy) in 1032 and came out of power only in 1946 with the abolition of the Italian monarchy.

*kicks himself hard*

I remember now, yeah, that's the chap. I seem to recall that he returned to Italy, and recognised the Italian Republic, angering some monarchists?

Sargon

[Hendryk]

The EU shall be a theocracy under the Archprimate Hendryk of the Church of Whatianity, whose first act shall be to take Canada under the EU's protection from the dread Howery Administration south of the 49th Parallel.
Excellent! (said in a Bill-and-Ted tone, not a Mr. Burns tone)
I won't have spent 4 years of my life studying European politics for nothing. I knew there had to be a reason I took up that stuff, and it wasn't to figure out the inner workings of the Standing Veterinary Committee of the Directorate General III of the European Commission...

[Max Sinister]

And actually, I live in a country which has a major deficit in affairs concerning the EU.
Chance on voting on the constitution 0
Number of Anti-EU parties: 0
Number of EU- critical newspapers: 0

Since you're talking about Germany, let me correct you:

1. OK, so you got this one right. If you exclude the right of the Germans to give themselves a new constitution after reunification - oh, wait, as Fat King Kohl and his party pointed out, this couldn't apply
2. So wrong. There are enough nutcase parties, mostly on the right, who'd like to leave the EU. Why don't you join them? You aren't that far from them, calling people repeatedly idiots and expressing your far-rightist views.
3. Same as 2. The Deutsche Nationalzeitung could be your friend.

[Fellatio Nelson]

Why doesn't the EU submit to being colonies of a reconstituted British Empire and have Queen Elizabeth II as Empress?

1) She is pretty much German and is related to virtually all the other royal families (and she is married to a Danish-Greek man).

2) English is the global language (as long as the USA is the superpower).

3) We are the last place to be invaded if the Reds come steaming through Poland; we can keep all the gold here.

4) We get on well with the USA; we also have a lot of Chinese and Indian restaurants, each one an embassy with this potential superpowers.

5) Prince Charles likes foreigners.

6) Everyone would have to drive on the left - as opposed to just UK and Ireland - and thus the French can show their disdain for American traffic measures.

[Sargon]

Oh great, I just KNEW this would get back to arguing again.... :rolleyes:

Can't you guys restrain yourselves...even for a little while...Please? Huh?

(sigh)

Sargon

[Susano]

1. OK, so you got this one right. If you exclude the right of the Germans to give themselves a new constitution after reunification - oh, wait, as Fat King Kohl and his party pointed out, this couldn't apply

Well, IMO the GErmans shouldvevoted on both. That we dont get to vote is an undemocratic outrage supported by all parties!


2. So wrong. There are enough nutcase parties, mostly on the right, who'd like to leave the EU. Why don't you join them? You aren't that far from them, calling people repeatedly idiots and expressing your far-rightist views.
3. Same as 2. The Deutsche Nationalzeitung could be your friend

Oh yes, fringe parties/newpapers. I bet supervised by the Gestapo, err, Verfassungsschutz, too.

[Max Sinister]

Oh yes, fringe parties/newpapers. I bet supervised by the Gestapo, err, Verfassungsschutz, too.

Which isn't too bad. The Weimar republic never used such means against Hitler, and he wasn't really grateful to them. No, actually, it's a quite good system. The people who want a Fourth Reich or a new GDR and a few weirdos like Susano are angry or sad about it, but the big majority can be happy that they don't have to live in a Fourth Reich or new GDR.

[Susano]

Yes, because you know, as soona s the Verfassungsschutz is abolished, the Nazis are taking over! Quick, take cover, they are everywhere! :rolleyes:

But yes, lets all supervise anti-European forces, so that the evil nationalists entiments take over! Everybody must by decree be happy to be rulled from Brussels! :rolleyes:

[fortyseven]

Great idea Abdul :D Fellatio you have soem good ideas too.

[benedict XVII]

Does Otto have any sensible, likable kids or grandkids?

Well, he was raised in Brussels, where his parents lived in exile. My grandmother even had his youngest sister in her class at school. Now, you are impressed, right?

[benedict XVII]

ACKKKK, I'm not American!, not that there's anything wrong with that!

Apologies, didn't mean to offend anybody. Where're you from?

[benedict XVII]

Good grief, why does nearly every interesting topic have to degenerate into an argument about politics or something? It's damn depressing...just want to see speculation about something...can't people detach themselves and be neutral about it? Hey guys, let's control those political urges and make an effort to analyse something objectively, ok? C'mon, give it a try, you know it makes sense :)

And before anyone asks, I have no opinion on European politics either way, as I've said before many times here, I'm not a political animal. I am merely fascinated by what if there was a monarch, since this was an unusual take on it, and discussing a hypothetical candidate would be interesting, especially since a monarch as head is almost certainly never going to happen.

Now, what other candidates could there be? How about the Duke of Alba...isn't that one of the oldest titles in Europe? Aren't the Danish and Dutch monarchies quite popular? I know that some Germans have a fascination with the British monarchy, since it is of German descent.

Can we get back to that then? Is it too much to expect?

Cheers,

Sargon

Duke of Alba absolutely no-go for the Low Countries.

Orange-Nassau, well we kicked them out through the front door 175 years ago, it's not to see them come back through the back door. And btw, do you have any idea what it's like to have a Dutch(wo)man as a boss?

[benedict XVII]

That's interesting, I did not know that. Who is the current head of the family? I forget at the moment, though I'm sure I'll kick myself when I remember.

Sargon

Vittorio-Emmanuele, son of King Umberto II and Queen Marie-José (the daughter of King Albert of Belgium, dubbed the "Queen of May" for her short-lived reign before the referendum that decided on the abolition of monarchy. An early opponent to Mussolini, she was the only reason why the Savoie did not get a totaly ridiculous result in said referendum)

The son of VE is Emmanuele-Filiberto, who is married to a starlet whose first name is Clotilde but whose last name I forgot.

[benedict XVII]

*smacks Steffen over the head*

And thats why we have no anti-EU sentiment. Because SOME anti-EU debattors are an embarassmenttoi the rest....

Now, I think the European idea started as a french attempt at, lets say, gaining influence, but it grew over even their heads. What we hav enow is some undescribable conglomerate of corporate interests and small countries gettinga role not appropriate to eithe rpopulation count or economical strength...

As for a ruling house, yeah, Id favour some Nassau line. That might be because I am from what was Nassau after 1815, but, meh :P . Can be the Dutch or Luxembourg lines even, heh.

The Luxembourg, at least they're Catholic. And mother of current Grand-Duke was Josephine-Charlotte of Belgium, daughter of King Leopold III and sisters to Kings Baudouin and Albert II. Among grand-parents, a Bernadotte Queen of Belgium, and an Orléans Prince Consort of Luxembourg. Good pedigree

[benedict XVII]

Vittorio Emmanuele IV, son of the former King of Italy, Umberto II. The line was initiated by Humbert Whitehands, Duke of Sabaudia (Savoy) in 1032 and came out of power only in 1946 with the abolition of the Italian monarchy.

In terms of longevity of the line (though not reiging), the Capets are coming first, with line founded in 982.

Savoys are a bit tricky, since technically, they have not been ruling Savoy since 1862. Power was transferred to Italy ultimately.

[benedict XVII]

Why doesn't the EU submit to being colonies of a reconstituted British Empire and have Queen Elizabeth II as Empress?

1) She is pretty much German and is related to virtually all the other royal families (and she is married to a Danish-Greek man).

2) English is the global language (as long as the USA is the superpower).

3) We are the last place to be invaded if the Reds come steaming through Poland; we can keep all the gold here.

4) We get on well with the USA; we also have a lot of Chinese and Indian restaurants, each one an embassy with this potential superpowers.

5) Prince Charles likes foreigners.

6) Everyone would have to drive on the left - as opposed to just UK and Ireland - and thus the French can show their disdain for American traffic measures.

Why do I see in each of those points an argument not to take a Windsor-Hannover-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-Mountbatten-... whatever hyphen on the torne of Europe?

[benedict XVII]

Seems to me we should revisit the genealogy of the Luxembourgs to make them heirs to all European Royal and Imperial houses.

[benedict XVII]

Thanks, but I don't think I qualify as a "Euro-enthusiast", if such a person exists at all.

Here I am, a Euro-enthusiast. Am I the only one on this board?

[fortyseven]

you can copy paste quotes so you don't need to make multiple posts Benny.

I am impressed a little that your grandmother knew royalty.

I'm Canadian. Our Head of State is Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada.

[Hendryk]

Here I am, a Euro-enthusiast. Am I the only one on this board?
It's a question of definition. I am in favor of European integration, only I'm aware the institutional structure and the process need improvements. Sadly, the constitutional treaty could have gone some of the way toward making things more workable, but try to explain that to people who see the hand of the Elders of Zion, the Illuminati or what have you behind everything coming from Brussels.
Basically, my position regarding the EU is based on facts and dry evidence. Boring stuff really. It's so much more fun to call the whole thing a capitalist plot and a Marxist conspiracy all at the same time...

[benedict XVII]

I am impressed a little that your grandmother knew royalty.

I'm Canadian. Our Head of State is Elizabeth II, Queen of Canada.

I love Canada, lived in Montreal for a year when I was a kid.

If you're impressed by royalty, then I'll boast even more. My grandparents were big personal friends of Prince Charles, Regent of Belgium for 6 years after WWII, and knew most of the royal family. Makes for cool gossips. My grandfather also met with almost all heads of royal houses in Europe (not the Windsors, though), and visited several times Hassan II of Morocco, and members of the Saud royal family.

[fortyseven]

born in Montreal, going to be living in Montreal for a while starting in September.

[benedict XVII]

born in Montreal, going to be living in Montreal for a while starting in September.

I used to live by the University of Montreal, near the Côte des Neiges. My father was at McGill and my mother at Sainte-Justine.

[fortyseven]

I'm going to Concordia

[benedict XVII]

I'm going to Concordia

What're you studying there?

[Susano]

It's a question of definition. I am in favor of European integration, only I'm aware the institutional structure and the process need improvements. Sadly, the constitutional treaty could have gone some of the way toward making things more workable, but try to explain that to people who see the hand of the Elders of Zion, the Illuminati or what have you behind everything coming from Brussels.
Basically, my position regarding the EU is based on facts and dry evidence. Boring stuff really. It's so much more fun to call the whole thing a capitalist plot and a Marxist conspiracy all at the same time...
I dont see the EU as some sort of conspriacy. I simply see it as not serving German interests, so it can go to hell for all I care.

[Nosb]

Yes, and he himself would make a great symbol for the new Europe - bridging the gap between East and West, multilingual, highly intelligent, extremely sophisticated, and devastatingly charming, from what I hear.

Of course, I doubt very much that monarchy is in the cards for Europe or many other new countries in the future.

He also has the longest name I've ever seen. King-Emperor Franz Josef Otto Robert Maria Anton Karl Max Heinrich Sixtus Xavier Felix René Ludwig Gaetano Pius Ignazius von Habsburg of Europe

[fortyseven]

Studying for a BA in History.

Wow Nosb. He really shouldn't have Max follow Karl in his name.

[Susano]

I was thimning the same. Seems like a subtle reference, lol.