The MacGyver of Time: No America

[Ivan Druzhkov]

The scenario starts off with waking up at midnight with an ASB perched at the foot of your bed. After a quick mug of cocoa, he explains that you have been chosen as part of a wager among the rest of his race. The premise of the bet is simple: In two weeks time, you will be transported to Washington, D.C, at January 1, 1850. Your goal is to prevent the United States from becoming a major world power by 1900. To do this, you will be given a steamer trunk, 2 m. x 1 m. x 0.75 m. You can put whatever you can fit in there to take with you back to 1850. Just before he discoroprates, the ASB mentions that, if you refuse, the tortures you and your loved ones will suffer will make hell seem like a weekend at the beach.

So, you have two weeks to make your preparations. What do you bring, and what's your plan?

[Leej]

Some deadly disease that wipes out all human life seems smart.

[DarkSlavik]

Some deadly disease that wipes out all human life seems smart.

how does a mutated strain of smallpox? or we could just use some VX.

[Mike Stearns]

The scenario starts off with waking up at midnight with an ASB perched at the foot of your bed. After a quick mug of cocoa, he explains that you have been chosen as part of a wager among the rest of his race. The premise of the bet is simple: In two weeks time, you will be transported to Washington, D.C, at January 1, 1850. Your goal is to prevent the United States from becoming a major world power by 1900. To do this, you will be given a steamer trunk, 2 m. x 1 m. x 0.75 m. You can put whatever you can fit in there to take with you back to 1850. Just before he discoroprates, the ASB mentions that, if you refuse, the tortures you and your loved ones will suffer will make hell seem like a weekend at the beach.

So, you have two weeks to make your preparations. What do you bring, and what's your plan?

The plans for a Maxim gun, the plan for the Wright Brothers' airplane, the plans for the HMS Dreadnaught, a book on the history of the 19th Century and enough money to pay for passage to Britain. My plan is to give them some very, very advanced weapons and the foreknowledge of the American Civil War. With these tools the Brits could reasorb the United States into the British Empire.

[Codeman]

plans for machine gun,M1 Garand plans,wright brother plane plans,plans for the sopwith camel, and plans for the USS monitor,a book detalling every battle of the acw and if possible plates for both usa and csa money back then. Then go to richmond or columbia telling the leaders to start prepping for seccesion by building up war factorys to produce machine guns planes exc and wait 10 years for the acw to start and try to become a general and lead the cs armys on a march of destruction through the us torching major citys in the eastern us that should hopefully stop the us from becoming a world power

[Glen]

Attempt 1: Look up prestigious law firms of the 19th and 20th centuries, make certain I can find one that will last for over 50 years. See if I can take digital pictures of pre 1850 American money and print up reasonable fascimilies on a laser printer to provide my funds (probably can make 'perfect' money, just have to remember to go first download the pics into a program and rewrite some of the serial numbers so they are different). I will have written several letters (about half translated into English ahead of time) to both the Spanish and American Governments (they get their own note, and a copy of the other note, which the lawyers will be instructed to verify were delivered) which will be delived by the law firm three weeks ahead of the explosion on the USS Maine (the Maine will have just arrived in Havana at that time) that was the Cause Belli for the Spanish-American War, and noting that there is a safety problem with the ship. The law firm will not be at liberty to reveal anything about how they came to have the letters.

Should the USS Maine still explode in Havana harbor, the law firm have further instructions to deliver follow-up letters (to different officials within the governments) stating that there was a safety issue with the Maine, one that both governments were warned of three weeks ahead of time. Also copies of the letters which were sent (with affidavits by the law firm on the day of delivery of the original set noting that these are the same as those delivered) prior to the blast will be sent to every major newspaper chain.

If war is still declared, a last package will be delivered, a Spanish edition of the best history of the Spanish-American war I can get, which will be delivered to the Spanish.

If I prevent the Spanish-American War, the USA will not be considered a major power until sometime after 1900 (Shortly thereafter, but I'm looking for a loophole, bastid ASBs shouldn't have threatened my family!). And if as a last gasp measure I give the Spanish enough knowledge to give them an advantage (and a real bloody mystery, the copyright on the book alone...), that could very well lead to a shortened war or a draw, or even an American loss (but probably not a bad one, given the logistics of the two nations), any of which would likely postpone the USA being a major power.

I'm trying to avoid getting anyone killed just to keep the bastid ASBs from not harming me and my family. The last chance interference especially irks me, but if the US continues to pursue war even after they were warned this wasn't an attack, and the papers reveal it (Hearst might try to suppress it, but Pulitzer won't), then I have little choice in the matter.

And I'm also just trying to delay by a few years America's arising to greatness. Any ASB who is willing to torture innocents to get compliance with a 'wager', I don't want them to really get what they want, ya know what I mean? :mad:

[Mr_ Bondoc]

I plan to go back in time with a geological survey map of the world's silver, gold, diamond, petroleum, uranium, and platinum deposits. Another weapon I plan to bring is a dismantable laser-sope sniper rifle:

-First, I plan to assassinate several figures in their youth including Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller, Alfred Du Pont, and William Randolph Hearst preventing their financial rise to fortune of the United States. I also plan to assassinate Serge Nilus, author of the infamous Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion , this will insure that European Jews will have some living space, especially in Russia and Eastern Europe.

-Second, I plan to purchase and sell at a profit the different mineral rights of Oregon, Washington, Oklahoma, and Alaska to the Native Americans. This prevents the vast Native American diaspora and establishes several viable Amerindian nations on the North American continent, and allow for greater European exploitation of the Continent. Also discovery of mineral deposits will be timed to destabilize the American dollar. Secondary profits will be used to purchase the Iranian and Saudi Arabian oil fields.

-Third, I plan to invest in the British Abolitionist Society. With an influx of close to 5 million in British pounds in an effort to create a "moral outrage" in Great Britian and the Contient against slavery and indentured servitude...

[Glen]

I plan to go back in time with a geological survey map of the world's silver, gold, diamond, petroleum, uranium, and platinum deposits. Another weapon I plan to bring is a dismantable laser-sope sniper rifle:

-First, I plan to assassinate several figures in their youth including Andrew Carnegie, John D. Rockefeller, Alfred Du Pont, and William Randolph Hearst preventing their financial rise to fortune of the United States.

So you would really kill all these people? That is one thing I always find a bit surprising about these scenarios when people are asked what THEY would do. How many people go about assassinating people they think are messing up the world now? And yet say they would if thrust back in time.

I also plan to assassinate Serge Nilus, author of the infamous Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion , this will insure that European Jews will have some living space, especially in Russia and Eastern Europe.

How does this prevent the US from becoming a major power by 1900?

-Second, I plan to purchase and sell at a profit the different mineral rights of Oregon, Washington, Oklahoma, and Alaska to the Native Americans. This prevents the vast Native American diaspora and establishes several viable Amerindian nations on the North American continent, and allow for greater European exploitation of the Continent.

This just plays into the hands of the US. Those 'Indian Nations' you speak of were all considered within the Territory of the USA. This will not likely change.

Also discovery of mineral deposits will be timed to destabilize the American dollar.

And wouldn't it also end up destabilizing other currencies eventually? This might not be our world economy, but a glut of precious metals is still a glut...

Secondary profits will be used to purchase the Iranian and Saudi Arabian oil fields.

Okay...how does this prevent the USA from becoming a major power by 1900? Undercut the young US Oil industry by developing your own wells? An idea, but probably not enough to effect things substantially prior to the twentieth century....

I plan to invest in the British Abolitionist Society. With an influx of close to 5 million in British pounds in an effort to create a "moral outrage" in Great Britian and the Contient against slavery and indentured servitude...

Noble, but isn't this just going to make the British more likely to support the Union in the Civil War? I don't see how you get this to result in the USA not being a major power by 1900.

[Mike Stearns]

I would also go back in time the the chemical recipe for Agent Orange. I would convince the American goverment that the best way to get the the Indians off their land and onto reservations is to spread defoliants like Agent Orange over everything.This would limit American growth because there would be no grass left to graze cattle on.

[Glen]

I would also go back in time the the chemical recipe for Agent Orange. I would convince the American goverment that the best way to get the the Indians off their land and onto reservations is to spread defoliants like Agent Orange over everything.This would limit American growth because there would be no grass left to graze cattle on.

Well, that has to be one of the more creative.

However, it wasn't cattle that made America a major power...

[Archangel Michael]

Well, that has to be one of the more creative.

However, it wasn't cattle that made America a major power...

But without cattle, the Americans will starve. BTW, doesn't Agent Orange also kill any plants you try to plant?

[Glen]

But without cattle, the Americans will starve. BTW, doesn't Agent Orange also kill any plants you try to plant?

No we won't! :p But yeah, it should kill most plants I think. Of course, that is the reason it won't go over well with the US...they want land for farms...

[Mr_ Bondoc]

=Glen Finney So you would really kill all these people? That is one thing I always find a bit surprising about these scenarios when people are asked what THEY would do. How many people go about assassinating people they think are messing up the world now? And yet say they would if thrust back in time.

Call it a sociopathic or nihilistic vent, but if it is an issue of family or loved ones versus the fate of a historical ideal, you can guess that most people will sacrifice their ideals and start shooting. Just think of Jack Bauer on 24 (FOX-TV)....



How does this prevent the US from becoming a major power by 1900?

By the eliminating of the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion , I plan to slow down the immigration of Eastern European and Russian Jews to the United States. Many of those people were the backbone behind the economic growth that fueled the second-half of the nineteenth century. This is based on the economic idea that immigration helps to build both a labor force and develop an intellectual financial class...



This just plays into the hands of the US. Those 'Indian Nations' you speak of were all considered within the Territory of the USA. This will not likely change.

Not if you have foreigners supply arms to these Indian nations. The idea is based on the novels The Indians Have Won! by Martin Cruz Smith and Climb the Wind by Pamela Sargent. I plan to make sure that British, French, and Russian weapons reach the Native Americans in ample amounts...


And wouldn't it also end up destabilizing other currencies eventually? This might not be our world economy, but a glut of precious metals is still a glut...

That's the point. The idea is to create an economic environment so hostile to investment by European nations, firms will withdraw their investments from the United States. Without this possible "seed money" from banks, you butterfly even more firms and corpoations out of existence.



Okay...how does this prevent the USA from becoming a major power by 1900? Undercut the young US Oil industry by developing your own wells? An idea, but probably not enough to effect things substantially prior to the twentieth century....

This is a safety gap measure meant to prevent any Western natin from getting too far. My plan is to destroy the oil wells if the United States or any nation gets too powerful, in an effort to make petroleum prohibitively expensive for any major parties...


Noble, but isn't this just going to make the British more likely to support the Union in the Civil War? I don't see how you get this to result in the USA not being a major power by 1900.

Actually I plan to create a situation wherein the North secedes from the United States under the leadership of the Know-Nothing Party. The idea is that by forcing the French and British to intercede in a "police action" to protect their investments in the United States. The strong abolitionist movement will serve to make the Moral case for intervention all the more palatable under Queen Victoria's government. This in turn leads to the deployment of European troops into the border states. Even if occupation is brief and merciful, an occupied United States will not achieve the rank of a superpower.

[Forum Lurker]

A laptop computer, a mechanical generator w/adaptor (capable of powering said laptop computer), and a DVD library containing the technical specifications of every post-1850 invention that's ever been catalogued, with an index; also, enough valid currency to get to England without raising eyebrows or risking my equipment. After I'm done selling the sum total of 150 years of progress to various Europeans, particularly nationalistic ones at that, the Old World should be far enough ahead of the new to satisfy the ASBs. If not, plan B involves using said technical specifications to brew up enough botulinum toxin A (with dispensation mechanisms) to take out Wall Street and precipitate a national economic crash.

[Mike Stearns]

No we won't! :p But yeah, it should kill most plants I think. Of course, that is the reason it won't go over well with the US...they want land for farms...

Well, you don't have to tell them that it stays in the soil. So they spend huge amounts of money spreading the stuff around, killing all the plants, building a railroad and attempting to settle unfarmable land. I think all of those things happening at once would wreak havoc on the American economy.

[Glen]

Call it a sociopathic or nihilistic vent,

Right, I think that's what it is with a lot of people, that and they just aren't taking it seriously.

but if it is an issue of family or loved ones versus the fate of a historical ideal,

Historical ideal...fine; killing lots and lots of people to accomplish it, not fine.

you can guess that most people will sacrifice their ideals and start shooting. Just think of Jack Bauer on 24 (FOX-TV)....

Who didn't, as I recall. He played along with the bastids just long enough to get to them (well, in the second season he did kill that one guy just for cover, but it was arguable that this wasn't bending Jack's ideals much considering what a bad-guy the one he killed was). I probably can't get to them, but I'm playing along just enough to try and save myself and my family, but without killing people along the way (in the Spanish-American War, people were going to die either way), and incidently trying to play by the letter of their challenge without giving them the substance of it.

I REALLY don't believe in giving those who do or threaten evil what they want!

[eschaton]

Wouldn't going back in time to stop the rise of America cause your family to cease to exist anyway? Personally, I'd just tell the ASB to do his worst.

[Romulus Augustulus]

As eschaton, but I'd pull out my faithful Davy Crockett and blast his fuzzy velvet ass to kingdom come. I'd then proceed to utilize my prototype trans-dimensional shift-engine equipped fleet of death robots to good effect, killing all the ASBs and usurping their powers.

[Glen]

Wouldn't going back in time to stop the rise of America cause your family to cease to exist anyway? Personally, I'd just tell the ASB to do his worst.


Thing is, I subscribe to the Many Worlds Hypothesis, so just contributing to a different timeline doesn't negate the existence of my own...

[Dave Howery]

I go back and convince the USA to change it's name to the United States of Columbia.. and then help them become a world power. Ha! Bite on that, ASB!...

[eschaton]

Thing is, I subscribe to the Many Worlds Hypothesis, so just contributing to a different timeline doesn't negate the existence of my own...

Ahh, but if you subscribe to the Many Worlds Hypothesis, then there are alternate worlds where your family is tortured no matter what you do in this timeline.

[Glen]

Ahh, but if you subscribe to the Many Worlds Hypothesis, then there are alternate worlds where your family is tortured no matter what you do in this timeline.

Yes, but I can try to make certain that I am not part of any of those timelines, and in addition, by my actions (and my dopplegangers') try to make those very low frequency timelines, with the vast majority of timelines having a happier ending...