New York City ISOTed

[Hyperion]

In 1776, just before George Washington's army arrives in what will one day be the "Big Apple", and and the British invade, assume that modern day New York City, takes the place of 1776 New York City. None of the smaller cities around NYC in New Jersey, Connecticut, or elsewhere in New York are isoted, just NYC itself. All the people and stuff currently in NYC are isoted also.

What does Washington and his army do when they show up?

What will the British invasion forces do when they show up?

For anyone thinking about a fight, the New York City Police Department has like 50,000 officers in the ranks.

[Jer8m8]

well...that isnt very specific. IIRC, the British were in Manhattan, and the "battle of Long Island" was fought in Brooklyn. So the British would suddenly find themselves with a significant army in lower Manhattan. How well would their guns work from buildings? How soon until they storm across the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges?

Washington I imagine is in an urban area. Could he, perhaps bolstered by support from NYC natives, lead a surprise attack on the British? Say through the Battery tunnel?

[Grimm Reaper]

Don't forget national guard units, military personnel on leave, ships loaded with armaments going elsewhere, retired veterans and the various organized crime units. And the police have some armored vehicles too.

Plus how many airports and various groups with helicopters.

Backed up by all the jewelry stores, including elite facilities like Tiffany's AND the gold in the city. We have nearly 80 tons that arrived in WWII, but are there are any other deposits?

Alas, we also have nearly 8 million people who will need food and such, and that quadruples the population of the newborn USA.

Hey! We outnumber the British now!

OK, in the first month, as plans are put together to feed the city, and as scouts head out to locate key sources of minerals(like oil in Pennsylvania), the New York First Time Lost Brigade destroys Lord Howe's army on Long Island and cripples the Royal Navy in the area before racing north and threatening Montreal and the rest of Canada. Meanwhile the Intrepid Museum is dragged back into service for one final mission.

Escorting various Staten Island ferries to land 10,000 men with most of the NYC armored vehicles and heavy artillery, the Intrepid simply rams any RN ships that attempt to stop the flotilla before it can land in England...

[Jer8m8]

New York is also a cargo port, and there are a few cruise ships that dock here. There aren't that many ferries...

The federal reserve in Mew Yrok, an article in the Times Magazine iirc in the spring described how everything is kept in the basement, because otherwise any manmade floor would be destroyed :)

At the time, I think there was some farming on Long Island and NJ, but certainly not enough. Hydroponics? Greenhouses in penthouses? Farm central park?

I believe there is some farming in Staten Island too.

[Hyperion]

well...that isnt very specific. IIRC, the British were in Manhattan, and the "battle of Long Island" was fought in Brooklyn. So the British would suddenly find themselves with a significant army in lower Manhattan. How well would their guns work from buildings? How soon until they storm across the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges?

Washington I imagine is in an urban area. Could he, perhaps bolstered by support from NYC natives, lead a surprise attack on the British? Say through the Battery tunnel?

This scenario occurs before the two armies arrive, meaning that both of them will have no idea what is going on. Washington, however is say, two to three days away from NYC however, so he would have to deal with it first.

I don't think that there would be a lot of warships that could possibly fight. One or two vessels, frigates or destroyers or maybe a cruiser might be in town on leave or something, and there would be a handful of Coast Guard vessels, but nothing major.

[eschaton]

I don't think that there would be a lot of warships that could possibly fight. One or two vessels, frigates or destroyers or maybe a cruiser might be in town on leave or something, and there would be a handful of Coast Guard vessels, but nothing major.

Have you ever been to NYC? They have quite an exhibit at the Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum. A WW2 carrier (with planes from every era), a working nuclear submarine, and a Concorde. There's a bunch of other navy ships docked at the other docks as well. I'm not sure how battle-ready any of em are, but what would you need against 18th century ships?

[Hyperion]

I'm well aware of the Intrepid, and the planes on her, but she isn't combat ready, and a lot of those planes have had their engines and other equipment that would allow them to function removed. The Intrepid may not even have fuel to work the engines. As far as the submarine goes, if it is part of the museum, it will not have any weapons, it's reactor will likely have been removed or emptied out, and who is going to run it. All of those museum ships and planes have no ammo, and likely no fuel in them. A number of the systems that make them run have probably been removed, on the remote chance that someone might want to steal one. Also, could you get to run something the size of the Intrepid, or something like a submarine.

By warships, I mean modern, fully armed, fully manned guided missile frigates, destroyers, and cruisers with all the latest gadgets.

[Grimm Reaper]

Hyperion, the point on engines and other gear is correct, not to mention the armaments. On the other hand, something in the National Guard armories might be cobbled into use, and there are airports inside NYC to provide the fuel and such. Nor does NYC need modern stuff. Imagine the effect of one moderately sized freighter of 20-50 thousand tons crudely rebuilt as a ram capable of 30+ knots!

[Ward]

Hyperion, the point on engines and other gear is correct, not to mention the armaments. On the other hand, something in the National Guard armories might be cobbled into use, and there are airports inside NYC to provide the fuel and such. Nor does NYC need modern stuff. Imagine the effect of one moderately sized freighter of 20-50 thousand tons crudely rebuilt as a ram capable of 30+ knots!


why would it need to go 30 knts all the need to do is 18kts.
Also think of a fire boat that turns on it waterhoses on a sailng ship .

Also think of a tow missile fired at a ship of the line ?

[Hyperion]

Don't forget the police. The NYC Police Department has something like 50,000 personnel in the ranks. That's bigger than armies of some countries. I don't know much about the national guard, but I would guess that there would probably be at least a couple thousand of them available if need be. There would also likely be an air national guard wing stationed somewhere in the area, likely at JFK international airport.

[Glen]

Both the Revolutionaries and the British aren't going to try anything when the unbelievably futuristic city of New York appears. The skyline alone will be enough to scare them all away. No one has even dreamt yet of human structures reaching so high; their closest point of reference would be the Tower of Babel (which NYC has some other interesting parallels to...).

Probably, both forces send a handful of their bravest men to make contact with this strange place. Then the New Yorkers are going to declare the United States of America independent...and the Brits in country are going to say, 'Yes sir' just from seeing the civilian ships and the planes overhead.

The New Yorkers will seem like the Borg, "Resistance is futile."

Only those who haven't experienced first hand the City of New York will think to resist....

[Swede]

A few thoughts:
Not only is the food infrastructure gone, so is the narcotics infrastutcture.
Will the NYC become its own state now? The City-State of Gotham :)
the probable flooding of the PATH tunnels will lead to the WTC hole being flooded, right?
A old new frontier opens up for the poor in NYC - teach them farming skills and the US just got maybe a hundred thousand willing settlers to build up the much-needed agriculture base for the new capital City.

[Hyperion]

why would it need to go 30 knts all the need to do is 18kts.
Also think of a fire boat that turns on it waterhoses on a sailng ship .

Also think of a tow missile fired at a ship of the line ?

A ship can't go anywhere if it doesn't have engines that work, or oil or coal to fuel the boilers even if they could be started again. A ship the size of Intrepid isn't something that you can just press a button and magically start it up. It would take days, if not weeks at the least to get the ship ready to move again.

I don't know about the fire tugs, but having some army teams put on NYPD helicopters with TOW or LAW missiles could come in handy. Why wait for trouble to come to you, when you can beat the tar out of it hours before it even gets close.

[sbegin]

A ship can't go anywhere if it doesn't have engines that work, or oil or coal to fuel the boilers even if they could be started again. A ship the size of Intrepid isn't something that you can just press a button and magically start it up. It would take days, if not weeks at the least to get the ship ready to move again.
.
Don't really need the Intrepid - if there are marinas in NYC, just get a big yatch, get fuel from the smaller boats, armor the front of it, and run at those old wooden ships! Do this with any fast boats, and you'll end the blockade pretty fast, just with the fear factor.

[Hyperion]

Don't really need the Intrepid - if there are marinas in NYC, just get a big yatch, get fuel from the smaller boats, armor the front of it, and run at those old wooden ships! Do this with any fast boats, and you'll end the blockade pretty fast, just with the fear factor.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to take some strips of aluminum or something and weld them around the windows just to be safe, but that or a freighter would be the best bet to ram them.

Does anyone know if there is a national guard fighter wing stationed at JFK Internation Airport.

[Landshark]

How much smallpox vacine is there in New York?

And just how are the inhabitants of the most multi-cultural city in the US going to react to people who pratice slavery, consider women should be seen and not heard, imprison sodemites, restrict the francise to landowners and who take their religion very, very seriously?

[sbegin]

Here's another thought: NYC must have a pretty good proportion of African-Americans. You put them back into a time when slavery is alive and growing - what happens next? You get a mini-army of African-Americans from NYC, armed with modern weapons, descending on the southern plantations and freeing all the slaves. That pretty much puts an end to a lot of the agriculture of that area, which brought in much trade (cotton and tobacco mainly) with Europe. What next? How does the economy recover?

[Yossarian]

I think that it won't so much be the New Yorkers reacting to the colonists as it will be the colonists reacting to the New Yorkers. With its much larger population and vastly superior technology, New York will dominate North America for many years to come. They'll probably try to turn the old US into our US as far as laws go, and there will be a big enough New Yorker majority that they can simply dominate through numbers, they won't have to do anything to upset democratic rule in the colonies.

[Mike Stearns]

Here's another thought: NYC must have a pretty good proportion of African-Americans. You put them back into a time when slavery is alive and growing - what happens next? You get a mini-army of African-Americans from NYC, armed with modern weapons, descending on the southern plantations and freeing all the slaves. That pretty much puts an end to a lot of the agriculture of that area, which brought in much trade (cotton and tobacco mainly) with Europe. What next? How does the economy recover?

A modern civil rights movement in the late 18th Century would be pretty interesting. As for agriculture, initially it would drop off, but with the advanced knowledge of how to build internal combustion engines as well as irrigation techniques, it would pick up again very, very quickly.