Map Continuation X - Map 1 - Europe

[Gandavien]

Map Continuation X



Europe



Simply because I have no idea what number this is, welcome to Map Continuation X! Map Continuation 3, which to many was a highly successful edition of the brand, has flopped at last, and some of the members are eager to start again.

The aim of the game is to create a world. There is no game at the end of the creation, it is an effort in world building to create a realistic impression of a world diverging from a POD of 1400, but starting with creating the countries. We then build a realistic world around that.

This MC will have a more manageable POD of 1400, but of course that’s not set in stone, so we can fiddle around with dates later on. The current time period of the MCX universe is 1900, so we have colonial empires galore.

Areas coloured grey on the map are NOT allowed to be claimed on, as they are part of other continents. Borders must be ONE PIXEL THICK and coloured black. The map must always be saved as a PNG image.

The moderators are myself, Benkarnell and Knepah, and we have reserve a right to alter borders slightly if we see fit. Note that you may claim several nations on one continent, but try to keep it to no more than two unless we need more.

So, I’ll claim the first nation: The United Kingdom of Denmark and the Netherlands, which I expect is a very minor colonial power.

PLEASE NOTE: This is NOT a map game/nations game. This is a map continuation. You do NOT claim in turns, and if you do not post a map, you have NOT made a claim.

[Crayhistory]

I claim next.

[Iserlohn]

I claim the North Western Iberian peninsula, claim shown on map with more details will come this night!

EDIT: Actually... Forget that, though I still claim.

[Gandavien]

I claim the North Western Iberian peninsula, claim shown on map with more details will come this night! Remember that if someone posts a map with that area before you, your claim is invalid.

[KCammy]

I'll post after Crayhistory - if anyone doesn't object.

[False Dmitri]

This does appear to be the tenth. At least, there was a ninth (http://www.gateway.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=4309862#post4309862)...

It's especially hard to pin down because the Continuations skip around between Books & Media, Large Games, and The Sandbox.

[Gandavien]

I'll post after Crayhistory - if anyone doesn't object. PLEASE NOTE: This is NOT a map game/nations game. This is a map continuation. You do NOT claim in turns, and if you do not post a map, you have NOT made a claim.

[Crayhistory]

Heres my claim, the Empire of Portugal.

[Gandavien]

Heres my claim, the Empire of Portugal. That's not really an empire. Can we just call it 'Kingdom'?

[Crayhistory]

That's not really an empire. Can we just call it 'Kingdom'?

Its not an Empire in Europe. But my plans are for it to have an oversea's empire.

[TurkishCapybara]

The Ottoman Empire.

I Do not plan on controling Egypt, Israel or Arabia.

[Iserlohn]

My Livonian Federation (formerly known as the Livonian Order)!

[Krall]

Its not an Empire in Europe. But my plans are for it to have an oversea's empire.

A Portuguese colonial empire is a much different thing from an Empire of Portugal. An Empire of Portugal implies that the region of Portugal itself, in this case the territory you have claimed on the European map, is vast and powerful enough to be an Empire in its own right, whereas a colonial empire will not usually be named an empire officially and will not confer the title of "Emperor" upon its head of state.

In any case I'd advise not claiming any specific titles at the moment and waiting to see what the rest of Europe, and indeed the world, will look like in this timeline.

[Turquoise Blue]

This shouldnt be in Books and Media! By the way, lucky on the X thing.

[Zuvarq]

Claiming should be allowed. It prevents people from making conflicting maps. People'd just be claiming the chance to make a map, not a nation.

[False Dmitri]

@Gand - It might be a good idea to explain just what is the goal here and just how it will work.

@Krall - reconciling all those titles is half the fun! Of course, they can change and evolve as the rest of the world comes into focus.

OK, my claim. It's fairly out on a limb. This is the Luxemburg Empire, also known as Bohemia for short - something like TTL's Habsburgs. A few early attempts to make colonies, but nothing serious or permanent. One of the major powers on the Continent, however.

[Krall]

The Emirate of Siciliy. Hopefully this won't turn out to be too implausible.

Edit: Added the decadent, mewling infidel state of Bohemia.

[Iserlohn]

The United Crowns of Scotland and Norway, my only European country with a colonial empire!

[Dom Jao II]

The United Kingdoms of Anglo-Hibernia
With some assorted colonies

[Beedok]

Can I claim?

[QuoProQuid]

Can I claim?

I think it says explicitly in the opening post that you cannot.

I'll add a nation to Italy. Give me a moment.

[Turquoise Blue]

The United Kingdoms of Anglo-Hibernia
With some assorted colonies
Oh, Wales, why do you have to be under England in most games...

[Beedok]

I think it says explicitly in the opening post that you cannot.

I'll add a nation to Italy. Give me a moment.
Weird considering the high probabilty of someone making an overlapping nation. Still what I more meant was can I join.

[Devilmaypoop]

It's kind of stupid that you cant claim a turn, because then there is going to be alot of confusion with overlapping maps.. The rule makes no sense at all.

[Beedok]

Logical Republic of Occitania
137402

Good?

[KCammy]

PLEASE NOTE: This is NOT a map game/nations game. This is a map continuation. You do NOT claim in turns, and if you do not post a map, you have NOT made a claim.

I know that - but owing to an unreliable internet connection, I have not been able to upload my subbmission before someone scooped up the area I wanted. :(

[Iserlohn]

Logical Republic of Occitania

Good?

These enclaves don't look logical ;)

[QuoProQuid]

Is this alright? I am more than willing to reduce the amount of territory the nation has.

The Pontifical States

http://i.imgur.com/9wak2.png


EDIT: Oh rubbish. Let me add it the last update.

[Beedok]

These enclaves don't look logical ;)
The HRE wasn't logical.;)

[QuoProQuid]

The HRE wasn't logical.;)

Beedok does have a point.

Anyways, here is the map:

http://i.imgur.com/qIwXh.png

[False Dmitri]

I know that - but owing to an unreliable internet connection, I have not been able to upload my subbmission before someone scooped up the area I wanted. :(

Is there a way to compromise - fit in both ideas? Where had you hoped to go? Most countries will probably get adjusted eventually.

@Beedok - That's definitely more than what's usually called Occitania. What's the story there?

[Beedok]

Is there a way to compromise - fit in both ideas? Where had you hoped to go? Most countries will probably get adjusted eventually.

@Beedok - That's definitely more than what's usually called Occitania. What's the story there?

The Portugal is definitely more than what's called Portugal.

[Dom Jao II]

The Scwedisch Empire

[False Dmitri]

The Portugal is definitely more than what's called Portugal.

I suppose, but Occitania's name really only makes sense in contrast with something else - "the land where people say Oc for Yes" or somesuch. I guess in real life there have been exonyms that came to be used by the group they were given to; on some level everything's possible. Portugal's also different as there was an already-expansionist Portugal at the time of the POD.

[Beedok]

I suppose, but Occitania's name really only makes sense in contrast with something else - "the land where people say Oc for Yes" or somesuch. I guess in real life there have been exonyms that came to be used by the group they were given to; on some level everything's possible. Portugal's also different as there was an already-expansionist Portugal at the time of the POD.
Well considering we have a divided France I don't think the people with the northern part would like my people to be calling themselves French.

[KCammy]

Is there a way to compromise - fit in both ideas? Where had you hoped to go? Most countries will probably get adjusted eventually.

@Beedok - That's definitely more than what's usually called Occitania. What's the story there?

I was thinking about a "Republic of Southern Scotland."

This was the map I was going to post;

http://i.imgur.com/RuvKh.png

[TurkishCapybara]

The Pod is 1400, why do we have:

-Renamed Sweden.
-Hiberina vs Ireland or Erie.
-Occitania vs France
-Engwank without Scotland
-Scotland-Norway.

[Beedok]

The Pod is 1400, why do we have:

-Renamed Sweden.
-Hiberina vs Ireland or Erie.
-Occitania vs France
-Engwank without Scotland
-Scotland-Norway.

Different 100 years war?

[Iserlohn]

The Pod is 1400, why do we have:

-Scotland-Norway.

Dynastic/personal union?

[False Dmitri]

Well considering we have a divided France I don't think the people with the northern part would like my people to be calling themselves French.

I guess it's my love of unusual names... there has to be a more interesting one than Occitania out there somewhere, one that would reflect your idea of the area's backstory.

The Pod is 1400, why do we have:

-Renamed Sweden.
-Hiberina vs Ireland or Erie.
-Occitania vs France
-Engwank without Scotland
-Scotland-Norway.


Sweden's an odd one, definitely. Hibernia could be an official, classicized name. I'm not a huge fan of Occitania as a name. England certainly wanted to be more active in France in the 1400s, so this must reflect that. Scotland-Norway must be the result of some kind of dynastic acrobatics in the early modern period sometime, which will no doubt be explained in due course...

I was thinking about a "Republic of Southern Scotland."

This was the map I was going to post;



If the creators of England and Scotland are willing, some variation on that theme could be squeezed in as an Anglo-Scots buffer zone, maybe?

[Dom Jao II]

minus the irish part would be nice

[TurkishCapybara]

Hibernia could be an official, classicized name.

That has never occured, so it is not plausible.

England certainly wanted to be more active in France in the 1400s, so this must reflect that.

England`s grasp on France is not a practical idea (With a bigger France (outside of the North)) they would still go after scotland.

[KCammy]

I think I'll just pull my suggestion out - seeing the fuss it could cause.

[Trovador]

Finally, a Map Continuation!

---

Uhn, I agree that Occitania is not the most probable name for such region, once there's no France other than the nation itself. It can, however, be culturally Occitain, and I actually support it.

I would like to add the Italian Confederation:
A league of various italian states and city-states, created to assure their neutrality and prosperity. Something along the lines of OTL Switzerland, but more 'active' when concerning commerce, as it is a much richer and productile region than the Alps. It's most probably a republic, but not a 'Logical' one like France.

EDIT: the Ottoman borders are rather... meh.

[Beedok]

Finally, a Map Continuation!

---

Uhn, I agree that Occitania is not the most probable name for such region, once there's no France other than the nation itself. It can, however, be culturally Occitain, and I actually support it.

I would like to add the Italian Confederation:

EDIT: the Ottoman borders are rather... meh.

I was more thinking some deal with the guys in the North to avoid conflict by neither claiming to be France.

[QuoProQuid]

Ooh. The Italian Confederation has a nice shape.

http://i.imgur.com/KEY4R.png

If no one minds, I have the Crown of Aragon. The country's better days are behind it, and their only remaining territory exists in Balearic Islands. No more are they a significant power in world affairs, now they are simply a pawn tossed around by the rest of Europe.

[Gandavien]

Ottoman's borders will be changed. Significantly. Yuck. So will Occitania, if indeed it can be called Occitania. Also, whoever claimed Greenland shouldn't have done that, it was in grey. :mad:

[Devilmaypoop]

The Kingdom of Burgundie.

[Turquoise Blue]

Ottoman's borders will be changed. Significantly. Yuck. So will Occitania, if indeed it can be called Occitania. Also, whoever claimed Greenland shouldn't have done that, it was in grey. :mad:
How about all you can see on the map of Greenland is all they have?

Plus the Republic of Teutonia, formerly the Teutonic Order

[Beedok]

Ottoman's borders will be changed. Significantly. Yuck. So will Occitania, if indeed it can be called Occitania. Also, whoever claimed Greenland shouldn't have done that, it was in grey. :mad:
Why must my borders be changed?

[Gandavien]

@Beedok: They're a bit nonsensical.
@DrTron: No, Greenland is part of North America, and will be claimed along with North America.
@Devilmaypoop: Please choose a different name.

[Devilmaypoop]

@Gandavien, The Dual Monarchy of Savoy-Alsace?

[Turquoise Blue]

By the way is my Republic of Teutonia OK?

[Beedok]

@Beedok: They're a bit nonsensical.
I hope I don't loose anything overall. I was deliberately nerfing myself. Still, besides the Pyrenees I don't think any of them are odder than OTL.

[Gandavien]

I hope I don't loose anything overall. I was deliberately nerfing myself. Still, besides the Pyrenees I don't think any of them are odder than OTL. You won't lose too much. You'll just get nicer borders.

[Odysseus]

Claiming next.

[Gandavien]

Here's a revised version of Europe.

[Beedok]

You won't lose too much. You'll just get nicer borders.
I lost like 1/2 my land! :eek:

[Dom Jao II]

What the hell?

[Odysseus]

Erfurt Confederation and partial member states (lighter shade).

137422

[Odysseus]

Here's a revised version of Europe.

The current version is just fine - no reason to deny people half their territory.

[Gandavien]

The current version is just fine - no reason to deny people half their territory.There is: I was refining it to make it more realistic.

[Odysseus]

There is: I was refining it to make it more realistic.

Well, it's a 1400 POD, most everything on the map is possible.

[Baconheimer]

Republic of Petrograd.

[Gandavien]

Erfurt Confederation and partial member states (lighter shade). This isn't allowed: The Erfurt Union wasn't devised until the 1850s in OTL, and what you've basically created is a space filling state.

[Gandavien]

Republic of Petrograd.Please used the revised map I posted at the end of the last page, also this is impossible. St. Petersburg was built in the 1700s.

[Odysseus]

Take it off then, if we're going to be History Nazi's in a fucking Map Continuation, then count me out. This is supposed to be fun for god's sake - your making it too serious.

[QuoProQuid]

I understand some of the changes, but can we make a few adjustments? Some of the changes are rather... significant and I feel could be handled better.

- At least give the United Kingdoms of Anglo-Hibernia Normandy and part of Brittany.
- Expand Occitania northward and Corsica.
- I do not understand the border change for the United Kingdom of Savoy-Alasce
- If you are going to take the Istria penninsula from the Pontifical States, could they have Avignon instead?

[Odysseus]

Also Erfurt Union =/= Erfurt Confederation. Erfurt Confederation is, in my history devised for it, the last HRE states semi-unified.

EDIT: Actually, nevermind about the map thing, I honestly do not see anything wrong with the map. Well, Petrograd could be moved around a bit and changed to Novgorod...

[Gandavien]

I understand some of the changes, but can we make a few adjustments?

- At least give the United Kingdoms of Anglo-Hibernia Normandy and part of Brittany.
- Expand Occitania northward at least.
- I do not understand the border change for the United Kingdom of Savoy-Alasce
- If you are going to take the Istria penninsula from the Pontifical States, could they have Avignon instead?
-Okay.
-Well then it's not really Occitania anymore.
-It was so it actually contained Alsace.
-I'll give back Istria.

[Odysseus]

Okay, now that I can accept. :)

[Dom Jao II]

Current Map

[Beedok]

-Okay.
-Well then it's not really Occitania anymore.
-It was so it actually contained Alsace.
-I'll give back Istria.
Why do you insist on robbing me of half my land when I already said I was nerfing myslef?

[QuoProQuid]

-Okay.
-Well then it's not really Occitania anymore.
-It was so it actually contained Alsace.
-I'll give back Istria.

Thank you. I think that map is much better than the last one. I'll see if I can transfer the most recent updates to this one.

Does everyone else approve of Gandevian's updated map? If so, please state your concerns.

[Gandavien]

Okay, now that I can accept. :) Thank you. I'm sorry, I don't want to be a history nazi, but the Map Continuation is about creating a realistic world from a POD, and that will involve disputes and refinements and that sort of thing. I also want to avoid space filling nonsense so there can be more variety and less generic-ness. But I must stress that this isn't about playing some sort of game of 'who can have the biggest country', it's about creating a really dynamic, interesting, deep world that is realistic.

Again, I apologise for being a history fascist.

[Beedok]

Thank you. I'm sorry, I don't want to be a history nazi, but the Map Continuation is about creating a realistic world from a POD, and that will involve disputes and refinements and that sort of thing. I also want to avoid space filling nonsense so there can be more variety and less generic-ness. But I must stress that this isn't about playing some sort of game of 'who can have the biggest country', it's about creating a really dynamic, interesting, deep world that is realistic.

Again, I apologise for being a history fascist.

I only called myself Occitania because of the chunk of France being taken. It is basically France.

[Gandavien]

I only called myself Occitania because of the chunk of France being taken. It is basically France. If you call yourself France I can accept a larger country. But Occitania is a very vague term that doesn't cover the whole area.

[QuoProQuid]

I only called myself Occitania because of the chunk of France being taken. It is basically France.

You could probably change Occitania to France now. The UK's land claim has been diminished so it would not be seen as weird.

The problem I think was your name.

[Beedok]

If you call yourself France I can accept a larger country. But Occitania is a very vague term that doesn't cover the whole area.
Then I will be France.

[Gandavien]

Then you will have France.

Also, since I'm a Brit, I'm currently staying up rather late to sort this MC out. Is there anyone who can follow the rules I have for the MC on the first post, who will ensure that the next continent isn't started till I'm around, and who exists in a different time zone to me, who would be willing to moderate while I'm asleep?

[QuoProQuid]

If no one else is willing, I could try. I'm in the Eastern timezone.

[Odysseus]

Erfurt Confederation: A loose confederation founded by Thuringia and it's closest allies during the late 1700's.

137431

[Trovador]

The borders are certainly better now (Denmark-Netherlands is rather blobby IMHO, though), but it somewhat breaks the idea of a Occitan-centered France.

What do you think of a Kingdom of France, centered in Paris but without most of France?

It could be either the legalist resistance against the "Logical Revolution" that founded the Republic, splitting the country;
Or something older, like a split between two claimants of the title. One of them, supported by the English, for example, kept Paris, while the other one reigned from Avignon. I don't know how much time such situation could survive, but it could create an "Occitan-centered" France, with a language much more similar to the southern dialects.
Here's a "proposal", or at least an idea. It would be a shame to have just the 'old, standard' France in this game.

Oh, and the Loire region could be either legalist, 'occitain' or even an independent state, also.

[QuoProQuid]

The Grand Castillian Republic

Ex cinere surreximus

http://i.imgur.com/7fLQl.png

EDIT: Did not see the above post. The idea definitely seems interesting.

[Troyer IV]

Just a thought... but shouldn't there be a legend/key in the map?

[Beedok]

The borders are certainly better now (Denmark-Netherlands is rather blobby IMHO, though), but it somewhat breaks the idea of a Occitan-centered France.

What do you think of a Kingdom of France, centered in Paris but without most of France?

It could be either the legalist resistance against the "Logical Revolution" that founded the Republic, splitting the country;
Or something older, like a split between two claimants of the title. One of them, supported by the English, for example, kept Paris, while the other one reigned from Avignon. I don't know how much time such situation could survive, but it could create an "Occitan-centered" France, with a language much more similar to the southern dialects.
Here's a "proposal", or at least an idea. It would be a shame to have just the 'old, standard' France in this game.

Oh, and the Loire region could be either legalist, 'occitain' or even an independent state, also.
Of course with France to hold the heart is to hold the nation.

[Dom Jao II]

Current Map

[Beedok]

Current Map
Wait, so I'm loosing Paris again?

[Dom Jao II]

yesiree Avignon boy

[Trovador]

The Grand Castillian Republic

Ex cinere surreximus

<map>

EDIT: Did not see the above post. The idea definitely seems interesting.
Ha, thanks - and, is this Castillian Republic a "Logic Republic", like Southern France?

Just a thought... but shouldn't there be a legend/key in the map?
I prefer to keep the key out of the map, otherwise we'll have tons of different shapes and sizes in it - we could start to create a separate key like the UCS, though, to keep the map more understandable.

Wait, so I'm loosing Paris again?
The nations are not personal, Beedok, we are creating a world together here - ok, each one is more or less responsible for some nations, but they belong to all.
I thought you wanted a Occitain-centered France to be in this world, but if it has Paris, it's less likely it'll leave the old northern language. My suggestion, then, is to break France in two: a small one, that controls Paris and Burgundy, maybe an English puppet; and the main France that, with its capital in the south, happened to be more Occitan than TTL French.

What was your original plan, when you posted the 'Logical Republic of Occitania'? I, personally, like a lot the idea of a culturally occitain France.

[QuoProQuid]

Ha, thanks - and, is this Castillian Republic a "Logic Republic", like Southern France?

I was thinking along those lines. We have to clarify what a 'Logic Republic' actually is, but in my head I had the idea that Castille suffered some massive disaster in the past, leading to massive loss in territory to Portugal and the abolishing of the monarchy in favor of a new radical regime. They are rising from the ashes of the old and reestablishing themselves.

Of course, I'm fine with anything. That was just what I was thinking at the time.

On a separate note, I left a small space open between France and Castille for a small nation, but it seems to have been given to Castille now. Any reason why? Was it just unreasonable?

[Dom Jao II]

I made the Trans-Pyrenical Repulic a puppet of Occitania

[Splatter123]

heres mine if I'm aloud to put one in

The Dutchy of Warsaw
137449

[Beedok]

The nations are not personal, Beedok, we are creating a world together here - ok, each one is more or less responsible for some nations, but they belong to all.
I thought you wanted a Occitain-centered France to be in this world, but if it has Paris, it's less likely it'll leave the old northern language. My suggestion, then, is to break France in two: a small one, that controls Paris and Burgundy, maybe an English puppet; and the main France that, with its capital in the south, happened to be more Occitan than TTL French.

What was your original plan, when you posted the 'Logical Republic of Occitania'? I, personally, like a lot the idea of a culturally occitain France.
Ok, this is my first time doing one of these so I wasn't sure. As for the Occitan thing, I think it is interesting, I just wasn't sure. The Logical Republic bit is a bit like Robspierre's France, but with less killing and more crazy laws.

[Trovador]

I made the Trans-Pyrenical Repulic a puppet of Occitania

That's ok for me, Dom Jao (maybe it was a disputed land between both Logical Republics, and they kept it independent to avoid a possible war...or something along this lines?)

Your map has, however, Petrograd, but it probably won't exist ITTL as St. Peterburg was built in the 1700s. I don't remember why the 'Teutonic Republic' was taken off, It's ok for me.

On a side note, try to avoid the colour decaiment - your map is some degrees darker than the previous ones.

---

I was looking to Sardinia - given the POD, it could easily be Aragonese, Castillian, Papal, even Lorrainian or Italian, or independent. But this brought me a question: how do we have an Emirate in Sicily, bordering a quite 'agressive', or at least expansionist, Papal State?

[Dom Jao II]

Fine here's the current map, petrograd is now scwedisch

Dom Jao Signing off

[Trovador]

<doublepost>
heres mine if I'm aloud to put one in

The Dutchy of Warsaw

Sounds good to me! I've only cleaned your borders a little, in order to keep them one pixel wide.

Ok, this is my first time doing one of these so I wasn't sure. As for the Occitan thing, I think it is interesting, I just wasn't sure. The Logical Republic bit is a bit like Robspierre's France, but with less killing and more crazy laws.
Ha, ok, that's what I thought - and I really love radical insane republics :D

---

Updated map:
-All new nations
-Colours without decayment
-More UCS-esque colours

[QuoProQuid]

That's ok for me, Dom Jao (maybe it was a disputed land between both Logical Republics, and they kept it independent to avoid a possible war...or something along this lines?)

I was looking to Sardinia - given the POD, it could easily be Aragonese, Castillian, Papal, even Lorrainian or Italian, or independent. But this brought me a question: how do we have an Emirate in Sicily, bordering a quite 'agressive', or at least expansionist, Papal State?

Maybe the nation is a larger Andorra? There was a border dispute between the two Logical Republics, and to avoid a war they gave it to a third party instead.


Not sure how to address the Emirate-Papal State issue. I would imagine that one of the biggest missions of the Papal State would be to shove the Muslims off of the peninsula. Relations would be poor, at best.

Perhaps they were part of a larger Islamic power that conquered Sicily a while back, but have since declared independence. Does that make sense?

[Yelnoc]

Why isn't this in the sandbox?

[a Person]

I don't have an image editor right now, but I would like to claim a Mainz-centred Rheinvolksbund.

[False Dmitri]

But this brought me a question: how do we have an Emirate in Sicily, bordering a quite 'agressive', or at least expansionist, Papal State?

You just answered your question, of course - when the Tunisians/Ottomans/whoever invaded Sicily, the south Italian Christians sought desperately for a hero... and he's Popeman na na na na na, with Altar Boy...

The Logical Republic bit is a bit like Robspierre's France, but with less killing and more crazy laws.

Very neat idea, IMO. I'm also sad to see the French-occitan exclaves go in Germany. They were attractive. And the new Burgundy's fairly ugly now.

Why isn't this in the sandbox?

The Map Continuations don't have a permanent home, as far as I know. They move between here, the Sandbox, and Large Games. Makes it very hard to find earlier ones, believe you me.

I would like to make a second claim in europe. The Republic of Ardelia, occasionally called Transylvania and the Seven Cities. A true ethnic salad of Hungarians, Saxons, Szekely, Turks, Romanians, and not-insubstantial numbers of Jews, Cossaks, and Tatars. I'm not sure if this is a recent addition to the map of Europe, or if it's a continuation of the old Principality of Transylvania. Whichever works better.

I'm not sure whether this is allowed, but I've also created a Person's Rheinvolksbund, the People's Federation of the Rhine. Capital at Mainz.

[Devilmaypoop]

The border's of Teutonia are rather horribly ugly and eye butchering..

[chris456]

going to make a claim :D

[Thinker1200]

Decided to throw my hat into the ring by saying, there will always be a Russia, or in this case, the Grand Empire of Muscova.:p

[chris456]

the hannover confederacy

[Tree151]

I present - The Schwabenreich!

[Gandavien]

Good work everyone. I don't like the name of 'Teutonia', it doesn't sound very likely, but a state existing there is acceptable. I'll change the borders later.

I'll also fiddle with Russia's borders.

I like the France idea.

[Iserlohn]

Good work everyone. I don't like the name of 'Teutonia', it doesn't sound very likely, but a state existing there is acceptable. I'll change the borders later.

I'll also fiddle with Russia's borders.

I like the France idea.

When you do, please make room for the Tatars. Everybody loves Tartar states.

Furthermore might I add a third nation of mine (namely Tirol (http://npshare.de/files/59e8394c/mapcontinuation1.png), map in the hotlink)?

[Turquoise Blue]

Good work everyone. I don't like the name of 'Teutonia', it doesn't sound very likely, but a state existing there is acceptable. I'll change the borders later.


Well, Prussia is not right due to Bohemia having Westprussen. This is a Logic Republic like Castille.

[JJDXB]

El Serenìsimo Grandogado de Venesia <--- Name constructed with the help of Wikpedia (in Venetian!!! (http://vec.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pajina_prinsipa%C5%82e))

Pax Tibi Marce Evangelista Mevs

The Most Serene Grand-Duchy of Venice (why not :p)

When you do, please make room for the Tatars. Everybody loves Tartar states.

Furthermore might I add a third nation of mine (namely Tirol (http://npshare.de/files/59e8394c/mapcontinuation1.png), map in the hotlink)?

I've left the space blank for you

[KCammy]

The borders don't look as nice now... :(

EDIT - Why has everyone ignored Thinker1200's claim?

[chris456]

The borders don't look as nice now... :(

EDIT - Why has everyone ignored Thinker1200's claim?

that thing is a space filling empire :p

[False Dmitri]

that thing is a space filling empire :p

OTL is a space filling empire, eh? :p

I think his claim ought to be respected, though, even if conensus is to leave some room in the south for a more Tatar type nation(s). Viva Muskova and etc.

How about just calling "Teutonica" Lithuania?

[Turquoise Blue]

OTL is a space filling empire, eh? :p

I think his claim ought to be respected, though, even if conensus is to leave some room in the south for a more Tatar type nation(s). Viva Muskova and etc.

How about just calling "Teutonica" Lithuania?
Teutonia is not Lithuanian, it has a culture of its own.

[KCammy]

that thing is a space filling empire :p

And you've never posted any space-filling empire maps in the map-thread. :p

[Trovador]

You just answered your question, of course - when the Tunisians/Ottomans/whoever invaded Sicily, the south Italian Christians sought desperately for a hero... and he's Popeman na na na na na, with Altar Boy...



Very neat idea, IMO. I'm also sad to see the French-occitan exclaves go in Germany. They were attractive. And the new Burgundy's fairly ugly now.



The Map Continuations don't have a permanent home, as far as I know. They move between here, the Sandbox, and Large Games. Makes it very hard to find earlier ones, believe you me.

I would like to make a second claim in europe. The Republic of Ardelia, occasionally called Transylvania and the Seven Cities. A true ethnic salad of Hungarians, Saxons, Szekely, Turks, Romanians, and not-insubstantial numbers of Jews, Cossaks, and Tatars. I'm not sure if this is a recent addition to the map of Europe, or if it's a continuation of the old Principality of Transylvania. Whichever works better.

I'm not sure whether this is allowed, but I've also created a Person's Rheinvolksbund, the People's Federation of the Rhine. Capital at Mainz.

@ Sicily: uhnmm, it makes some sort of sense - this uber Papal State would be a rather recent state, then? Otherwise it would most probably have expelled the islamics out of Italy already. But my main question is: are the people of Sicily/Naples Catholic or Islamic? This will make a huge difference, legitimancy-wise.
(note, however, that the region was in christian hands since the 1200s, IIRC, so the region must have been conquered after the POD)

@ Brugundy/France: I myself liked much, *much* more the former borders too! I have another proposal for it: more HRE-esque borders, some enclaves, and Alsace is not mandatory. Basel added to the Popular Republic of the Rhine, and Savoy-Lorraine has only Porto Mauricio in the Mediterranean now. I don't know what to do with Alsace, however: should it be Rheinish, Savoyard, independent...?

@Teutonia: if it's not Germanic, we can call it Prutenia. Otherwise, I think that Prussia fits perfectly - ITTL, it "shifted" east instead of west.

@Borders: I cleaned them a little.

edit: oops, I forgot to add Transyvlania (and, nice description of the nation!) and Muscovy. Wait a minute.

edit2: added the right map - I'll not post Muscovy yet, but lets say it's somewhere in Russia :p

[Turquoise Blue]

the Teutonians regard themselves as Germanic and if there were a Germany, Teutonia would be included. it is like North and South Germany. the Teutonic Order has been there so long that "Prussia" is only used when talking about ancient history.

[Devilmaypoop]

Good thing you fixed the borders. They look much better now.

I think Alsace should either be a part of Savoy-Lorraine or a vassal of theirs or something.

[Trovador]

the Teutonians regard themselves as Germanic and if there were a Germany, Teutonia would be included. it is like North and South Germany. the Teutonic Order has been there so long that "Prussia" is only used when talking about ancient history.

Uhnm, in this case it indeed makes sense, but I wonder how a religious-military order would survive so much time with so much land. But I like the idea, I just would like to see how it develops.

Good thing you fixed the borders. They look much better now.

I think Alsace should either be a part of Savoy-Lorraine or a vassal of theirs or something.
Thanks!
Uhnm, I thought it could be, originally, a vassal of the King of France-at-Paris, but only officially. As such, the land is mostly Savoyard-Lorrainian, but "de jure" is a vassal of Paris. Would this make sense, or such vassalage relations are too archaic for a 1900s scenario full of radical republics? (...this archaisms could very well justify the radicalism and brutality of such republics, though).

---

A quick question: is Savoy-Lorraine Italian, French, Occitain or German, culturally?

---

I would like to contribute with another nation, specially to give another little 'twist' to our scenario: Sardinia belongs to the Kingdom of Mauretàna, freed from the Moors by French and Iberian crusaders in the 1500s Kingdom, somewhat like what happened to Portugal before.
ITTL, even if Eastern Europe lost more land to the Muslim, in West Africa it was much more succesful, with the fall of Tanger to portuguese hands in the 1420s.

---

Map changes:
--I tried to use the TRCS, but I'm not sure if I like the results
--Muscovite placeholder
--Mauretanese Sardinia

[Turquoise Blue]

Oh, so you are using the Sicilian seesaw?

[Knepah]

The Republic of Hungary
Once a mighty empire spanning across South-Eastern Europe, the former Kingdom of Hungary was diminished under the might of the Ottomans. With its citizens frustrated with the massive loss of land and status, the Hungarian Revolution took place, and overthrew the Hungarian monarchy - founding the Republic of Hungary.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/736/mcxhungary.png

[chris456]

does Hungary have a navy?:p

EDIT: shall we make a map game out of this when we are done?

[Turquoise Blue]

To Knepah
Is your Hungary Logicist? for that seems to be a strong ideology.
Castille, Occitania and my Teutonia is Logicist.

[QuoProQuid]

Looking at the map, Hungary has a very small coastline between the Papal States and the Ottomans.

I was considering putting the Knights Hospitaller as a small nation encompassing the remaining islands in the Mediterranean, or having them in control of the Holy Land when Asia pops up. I've got a liking for the Knights and would like to have them cling to life somehow, but do not want to make a change that is too illogical.

Any suggestions?

[Turquoise Blue]

I was considering putting the Knights Hospitaller as a small nation encompassing the remaining islands in the Mediterranean, or having them in control of the Holy Land when Asia pops up. I've got a liking for the Knights and would like to have them cling to life somehow, but do not want to make a change that is too illogical.

Any suggestions?
Well, having a strong Muslim presence in Europe while having Christian Holy Land and West Africa has never been done, so go for it!

[Devilmaypoop]

A quick question: is Savoy-Lorraine Italian, French, Occitain or German, culturally?

It's a big mix of all. German is majority in the north and northeast while the west is mostly French with the southern parts being mostly Italian. The Germans are the overall majority though, with around 70% of the population.

I like your Alsace idea.

Hungary looks like OTL Poland-Lithuania, just before being finally partioned :p

[Trovador]

To Knepah
Is your Hungary Logicist? for that seems to be a strong ideology.
Castille, Occitania and my Teutonia is Logicist.
It, indeed, would make sense to have Hungary as Logicist, however there's also the Popular Federation of Rhineland, which may or may not be Logicist, and the classical (maybe more liberal) Italian Federation, so Logicism is not the only option for republics.

What if Hungary has the same kind of 'ideological conflict' that Hungary or Yugoslavia had with the Soviets IOTL: they are all Republican Logicists, but Hungary would be more popular-based and less Technocratic, for example.

Looking at the map, Hungary has a very small coastline between the Papal States and the Ottomans.

I was considering putting the Knights Hospitaller as a small nation encompassing the remaining islands in the Mediterranean, or having them in control of the Holy Land when Asia pops up. I've got a liking for the Knights and would like to have them cling to life somehow, but do not want to make a change that is too illogical.

Any suggestions?

Well, having a strong Muslim presence in Europe while having Christian Holy Land and West Africa has never been done, so go for it!

I have nothing against Hospitaller Knights in the remaining islands, and I can even support them in the Holy Land, but it would need interesting explanations, at least.

Some ideas: the Ottomans are focused in Europe and had a very strong rivalry against another islamic power, like the Mamluks. Their lack of interest in Asia or Africa (we could have an islamic Ukraine too, for example) and rivalry would make them prefer to have Frenchmen in the Holy Land rather than Mamluks or Tunisians.

It's still unprobable, but possible nevertheless.

---

Is Portugal simply "Portugal", or could it be some sort of "Kingdom of Portugal-Leão"? This is the only way, IMO, they could claim such lands in Iberia. A sucession crisis in the 1440s would do the trick, also.

[False Dmitri]

Re: Alsace - Vassalage would be an odd thing to see in this world as it has emerged... unless Alsace is one place where The Revolutions failed to gain traction.

Here's a wacky idea: How about a Napoleon-esque figure related to the Logician movement, who rose and fell fast but was allowed to keep Alsace as a consolation prize - like Elba, but he didn't blow it in the end? It's wacky, I know. Feel free to ignore.

Looking at the map, Hungary has a very small coastline between the Papal States and the Ottomans.

I was considering putting the Knights Hospitaller as a small nation encompassing the remaining islands in the Mediterranean, or having them in control of the Holy Land when Asia pops up. I've got a liking for the Knights and would like to have them cling to life somehow, but do not want to make a change that is too illogical.

Any suggestions?

How about putting them at Otranto, Italy's heel? It would have been the front line against the Muslims, especially after the loss of Sicily - just where the Hospitallers would have wanted to be.

[Turquoise Blue]

Here's a wacky idea: How about a Napoleon-esque figure related to the Logician movement, who rose and fell fast but was allowed to keep Alsace as a consolation prize - like Elba, but he didn't blow it in the end? It's wacky, I know. Feel free to ignore.

That sounds interesting... How about Teutonia takes a part in it, maybe in the "Logicalist Coalition" with Hungary, Castille and Occitania?

[Yelnoc]

Obligatory Andorra, coming right up...

[Lyly]

The Khanate of the Altan Kipchak, also referred to by many other names, including simply Kipchak (also spelled Qipchaq), and the Kipchak Khanate.

The successor state to the Golden Horde, past centuries have seen the Kipchak Khanate lose most of its luster and land to various neighboring powers. The hereditary and absolute monarchy survives as a state today largely due to disinterest in the area by any other major power.

I have as its western border the southern bend of the Dnieper. The southern border, barely visible at the edge of the map, is the Caucuses. I've left a lot of the western border for others to decide what's most realistic.

[Dom Jao II]

current map

[Yelnoc]

How about we just toss in a Ukrainian state and be done with it?

[Beedok]

Maybe we should add a Ukraine*?

[TurkishCapybara]

I`m fine with a Crusader Holy Land.

Maybe a Kievan Khanate in Ukraine?

[Devilmaypoop]

Maybe an Ukraine that is split between Muslims in the Southeast and Orthodoxes in the Northwest?

[False Dmitri]

How about a strong Galicia, to help explain a small Poland and a nonexistant Lithuania?

[TurkishCapybara]

Kievan Khanate?

[Yelnoc]

But what happens to the strip of land between the Kievan Khanate and Novgorod?

[Turquoise Blue]

Here is my proposal for dividing up the strip of land

[Odysseus]

Needs a border between Kipchak and Novgorod, but otherwise good.

[False Dmitri]

Maybe the southern border can be fancied up a little, too.

Here's a rough rough map. Will probably change. [EDIT] Especially "Slovakia." Definitely not right!

[Trovador]

Kievan Khanate?

The idea is good, but it doesn't (or barely) have Kiev at al!
My proposal: the green state is the Özü Khanate (Özü is the Tatar name for the Dnieper) and the light blue state is the Principality (Kingdom? Republic? Tzardom? Khanate?) of Kiev, with the upper Dnieper basin.

And the white area sounds perfect for a Galizien state...

edit: oh, and avoid colour decaiment, please!

[KCammy]

The idea is good, but it doesn't (or barely) have Kiev at al!
My proposal: the green state is the Özü Khanate (Özü is the Tatar name for the Dnieper) and the light blue state is the Principality (Kingdom? Republic? Tzardom? Khanate?) of Kiev, with the upper Dnieper basin.

And the white area sounds perfect for a Galizien state...

edit: oh, and avoid colour decaiment, please!

Just give the white area to Warsaw, it'll look much nicer.

[chris456]

that is true

[QuoProQuid]

http://i.imgur.com/4nm7V.png

So this is our map for Europe. Any objections or alterations that need to be made? Looks like an interesting albeit unstable geopolitical situation. It wouldn't be surprising if this timeline's world war was just around the corner.

While we wait for Gandavien to post the next map, does anyone want to brainstorm on national ideologies, alliances and such? I am particularly interested in the Logical Republics.

[Turquoise Blue]

I am particularly interested in the Logical Republics.
OK, the Logical Republics are listed
Confirmed
Teutonia
Castille-Aragon
Occitania

Possible
Hungary

Add to this list.

[TurkishCapybara]

While we wait for Gandavien to post the next map, does anyone want to brainstorm on national ideologies, alliances and such? I am particularly interested in the Logical Republics.

Sicily, The Ottomans, The Özü Khanate, The Kipchaks and Friends Vs Spain, France, Hungary and Friends?

[Turquoise Blue]

Sicily, The Ottomans, The Özü Khanate, The Kipchaks and Friends Vs Spain, France, Hungary and Friends?
the Logicalists would probably band together in a Coalition, so Teutonia would be on France's sde.

[QuoProQuid]

OK, the Logical Republics are listed
Confirmed
Teutonia
Castille-Aragon
Occitania

Possible
Hungary

Add to this list.

Alright. Any ideas on what sort of things they pursue? They were mentioned earlier as more insane versions of Robespierre's France, except with less executions. What tenets do Logical Republics uphold? How do you think they are viewed by the other European states? How about the Catholic Church?

Sicily, The Ottomans, The Özü Khanate, The Kipchaks and Friends Vs Spain, France, Hungary and Friends?

Let me see if I can get a map up.

[Turquoise Blue]

Alright. Any ideas on what sort of things they pursue? They were mentioned earlier as more insane versions of Robespierre's France, except with less executions. What tenets do Logical Republics uphold? How do you think they are viewed by the other European states? How about the Church?

Logical Republics are probably viewed badly by the Church, by all the European nations that is not Logicalist and their tenets is probably National Survival, Anti-Immigration and Anti-Monarchist, while seeing that Europe needs to be saved from the Socialists and Fascists. Logicalism is the third extreme ideology. The "Left" and "Right" is useless. they probably use "Red", "Blue" and "Yellow" respectively. Conseratives are "Near-Blue", Communists are "Far-Red" and Democratic Logicalist is "Middle-Yellow"

[Gandavien]

I approve. Good job everyone. Sorry for my extended absence today.

What exactly are logical republics?

EDIT: I think it's too early for alliances.

[QuoProQuid]

Logical Republics are probably viewed badly by the Church, by all the European nations that is not Logicalist and their tenets is probably National Survival, Anti-Immigration and Anti-Monarchist, while seeing that Europe needs to be saved from the Socialists and Fascists. Logicalism is the third extreme ideology.

This actually fits in with an idea I was tossing around in my head about Socialism emerging as deeply intertwined with Christian theology. Maybe a more radical version of Rerum Novarum that has a larger global impact because of the strength of the Pontifical State.

No need to apologize Gan. Sorry for starting up with alliances. I was trying to pass the time while you were offline.

[Turquoise Blue]

I approve. Good job everyone. Sorry for my extended absence today.

What exactly are logical republics?

EDIT: I think it's too early for alliances.
I explained above, I see it as a third extreme ideology and has come up with a good idea of how to describe the ideologies when the Left-Right one is useless

[Yelnoc]

It just occurred to me that this is a very divided Europe for 1900. Did we have slower tech development?

[Gandavien]

I explained above, I see it as a third extreme ideology and has come up with a good idea of how to describe the ideologies when the Left-Right one is uselessOops, I posted mine just as you did yours. This is good stuff. I assume there's been some sort of continent-wide revolutionary movement like in 1848 in OTL? Did it all begin in Occitania?

[Turquoise Blue]

Oops, I posted mine just as you did yours. This is good stuff. I assume there's been some sort of continent-wide revolutionary movement like in 1848 in OTL? Did it all begin in Occitania?
probably Occitania but spread quickly to Teutonia. the Order all was beheaded there.

[Zuvarq]

Wow, map continuations do way better in Alternate History Books and Media than Sandbox. As in, people actually giving thought rather than just adding 'Gallia' and 'Nazi Farglestan' to the map and saying that the Muslim nation should give up land to Bizzentine. With the 'ine' in 'Bizzentine' pronounced like the 'ine' in 'mine'.

[Gandavien]

probably Occitania but spread quickly to Teutonia. the Order all was beheaded there.Is Teutonia really a good name for a country that has destroyed to Teuton Order?

[Turquoise Blue]

Is Teutonia really a good name for a country that has destroyed to Teuton Order?
You see the problem is the Teutonic Order defined the land. a new elective Teutonic Order was set up.

[Gandavien]

Okay.

Now, before we move on to Asia, we need to define some colonial powers. With such division in Europe, I can imagine that Asia has not been colonised to the extent it was in OTL, with perhaps only the East Indies, parts of India and some minor holdings like Hong Kong and Singapore.

Which countries have a major interest in Asia? Portugal and Castile were probably, like in OTL, mostly interested in the Americas, and have probably had their day. But who else is there?

[Turquoise Blue]

Okay.

Now, before we move on to Asia, we need to define some colonial powers. With such division in Europe, I can imagine that Asia has not been colonised to the extent it was in OTL, with perhaps only the East Indies, parts of India and some minor holdings like Hong Kong and Singapore.

Which countries have a major interest in Asia? Portugal and Castile were probably, like in OTL, mostly interested in the Americas, and have probably had their day. But who else is there?

the Teutonians probably holds some small cities in India...

[Gandavien]

the Teutonians probably holds some small cities in India...Not likely. They're very confined by the Baltic, so their interests are probably more insular.

[Zuvarq]

Whatever the state with the Belgium color is--it's probably a colonial power.

Portugal probably has a lot of Asia or Africa, and a former empire in the Americas that is now independent.

[Dom Jao II]

Hibernia holds one of the guineas, southern Madagascar, and angola
while schweden hold Sri Lanka

[Splatter123]

perhaps Denmark-Netherlands and Scotland-Norway have colonial ambitions as well as England

[Dom Jao II]

there is no england, only Anglo-Hibernia

[QuoProQuid]

Based upon its territory, I think Luxembourg would definitely have colonies in both Africa and some holdings in Asia.

Portugal might be the colonial power in this timeline. The sun never sets on the Portuguese Empire, or some similar nonsense. If anyone, I would suspect them to have the most holdings in Asia and Africa.

Either the UK or Castille is a close second for colonizing. Who is actually superior would depend on their histories and dumb luck.

The Ottomans likely have most of Anatolia, but as stated by the creator, very little outside of there. It might be interesting if a few other powers have managed to cling to life. Candar, perhaps?

The Papal State would likely only hold, at most, Tunisia and parts of Libya. They would probably have strong connections with the Knights in the Holy Land, however which could prove interesting. If you want to stretch plausibility, you could have them in control of Alexandria as a result of a successful 10th Crusade. American holdings seem highly unlikely.

France seems too divided to have much control over Asia. They might hold a handful of territories.

Teutonia seems to be too secluded to have much. I suspect they would focus their attentions inward, not outward.

Novgorod seems to extend into Asia, but I'm not sure whether they would take all of Siberia like Russia did in our timeline or stop at the Urals.

[Turquoise Blue]

Teutonia seems to be too secluded to have much. I suspect they would focus their attentions inward, not outward.


Fair enough, after the possible Great War, I think a new Teutonic Revolution will come, Teutonia will be neutral in everything. the Switzerland of this world

[Gandavien]

I'm thinking Denmark-Netherlands has a few small ports. Portugal and Castile are probably the big guns in this world, with England and Norway-Scotland having a few holdings. Luxemburg, as stated by Benkarnell, has no colonial ambitions.

[Dom Jao II]

the final map,

got rid of funky occitania on other side of france, and made france an anglo-hibernian puppet

[QuoProQuid]

I'm thinking Denmark-Netherlands has a few small ports. Portugal and Castile are probably the big guns in this world, with England and Norway-Scotland having a few holdings. Luxemburg, as stated by Benkarnell, has no colonial ambitions.

Ah, did not see that Luxemburg was not colonizing. Your assessment seems accurate then.

Fair enough, after the possible Great War, I think a new Teutonic Revolution will come, Teutonia will be neutral in everything. the Switzerland of this world

Seems fitting. Teutonia looks like a very cool state with an interesting history. I will be interested in seeing where it goes.

the final map,

got rid of funky occitania on other side of france, and made france an anglo-hibernian puppet

I think you forgot to expand Krakow. Also, Andorra keeps getting uncoloured for some reason.

Why is North France a puppet?

[Turquoise Blue]

If you want to know about Teutonia's flag then Viola!

[Gandavien]

the final map,

got rid of funky occitania on other side of france, and made france an anglo-hibernian puppetWhy? Filler.

[Krall]

You see the problem is the Teutonic Order defined the land. a new elective Teutonic Order was set up.

The problem with that is that the Teutonic Order was only called the "Teutonic Order" in English, whereas in German it was generally called the "Deutscher Orden" - literally meaning the "German Order" - so "Teutonia" as an official name doesn't make too much sense.

Personally, I think "Prussia" would be suitable, as the country does contain Ducal Prussia.

[Dom Jao II]

Why? Filler.

because otherwise the occitanians would overrun france, because its government is very weak

[Turquoise Blue]

The problem with that is that the Teutonic Order was only called the "Teutonic Order" in English, whereas in German it was generally called the "Deutscher Orden" - literally meaning the "German Order" - so "Teutonia" as an official name doesn't make too much sense.

Personally, I think "Prussia" would be suitable, as the country does contain Ducal Prussia.

In German they call themselves Orderrepublik or Order's Republic. the English call them Teutonia as a official English name.
Making it Prussia would strip the uniquenes from it.

[False Dmitri]

There might be room for a few small colonial projects from Luxemburg/Bohemia. I realized later that it does control Antwerp and have direct access to the Atlantic. Maybe in Africa, and/or a station in India. Possibly even a sugar island in the Caribbean, depending on the history that emerges. No sprawling colonial empires, I wouldn't think.

What happened to Alsace in the latest map? I thought its fate hadn't been finally decided yet.

[Gandavien]

Shall I post Asia now?

[Turquoise Blue]

Shall I post Asia now?
Yes you should

[False Dmitri]

In German they call themselves Orderrepublik or Order's Republic. the English call them Teutonia as a official English name.
Making it Prussia would strip the uniquenes from it.

You could define something as the successor to the Teutonic state but still give it another, more logical, name.

[Turquoise Blue]

You could define something as the successor to the Teutonic state but still give it another, more logical, name.
I want to keep Teutonia, nothing else sounds right for what I am thining of.

[Knepah]

I'll go along with Hungary being a Logical republic.

[False Dmitri]

I am re-posting the final map of Europe to avoid confusion - the last one posted before this had some incorrect changes.
http://i.imgur.com/4nm7V.png

[Dom Jao II]

that map is wrong, Parisian france is an Anglish Puppet and Andorra is an Occitanian one too

[Knepah]

Would anybody be able to put a layer map over this to show which countries IRL these states are encompassing? It's quite hard for me to figure out exactly what nations are replacing which.

[Yelnoc]

Would anybody be able to put a layer map over this to show which countries IRL these states are encompassing? It's quite hard for me to figure out exactly what nations are replacing which.

Here is a quick mock-up.

[Dom Jao II]

Hello, Andorra is a puppet of lower france, and upperfrance is a puppet of Anglo-Hibernia

[Yelnoc]

Hello, Andorra is a puppet of lower france, and upperfrance is a puppet of Anglo-Hibernia

Hello. Do you want to draw it on? I'm not sure how to do puppets with the new UCS.

[Dom Jao II]

Here it is

[False Dmitri]

Here is a quick mock-up.

So much for my ability to trace. ... it was from a map of 1400 Germany onto one of modern Europe, but even so. I'll make some adjustments this evening to bring this more in line with the correct locations (i.e., putting Bohemia in Bohemia).

[Gandavien]

We never agreed that France was an English puppet.

[Trovador]

We never agreed that France was an English puppet.

The original proposal is that, when the split occured - probably after a rather different 100 years war - there were two claimants to the title of "King of France": the English-backed candidate, also supported by the armies in Paris; and the southern french one. The civil war resulted in a stalemate, with both kings claiming the whole, but neither one nor the other achieved victory.

I don't know how this ended, though: the only logical explanation, for me, is that one of the french kings and other european powers converted to another sect of Christianism - this goes against the idea of 'religiously unified Europe', I know. But this way, each one could call himself 'king of France' without suffering excomunication, and eventually they would make peace.
Another possibility is that a Pope managed to make a proposal that they both accepted, like officially dividing the Crown of France into the Crown of Paris and the Crown of Avignon(or Arles, which in fact had a crown). Too unlikely, but if the Pope and his College could see advantage in a weakened France, it could have worked.

Ideas?

[TurkishCapybara]

My Proposal for the Religion of Europe.

[Turquoise Blue]

Since the Logical Republics would have outlawed religion, this is my proposal.

[Iserlohn]

Since the Logical Republics would have outlawed religion, this is my proposal.

Nah... Based on the demographics I had in mind with Livonia it should be predominantly "Catholic", except for the Livonian part of Ingria. Will edit the map according to this.

EDIT: Tadah! There is the proper Livonia. Seeing how it was formerly run by almost zealous Catholics it should be no wonder that it is so Western in faith.

EDIT²: Not about the bad stuff about logical republics, just the data for the map in general. Nothing against Atheist dictatorships (as a concept).

[Turquoise Blue]

Nah... Based on the demographics I had in mind with Livonia it should be predominantly "Catholic", except for the Livonian part of Ingria. Will edit the map according to this.
But most of the people in the European Logicalist republics are Atheist. Japan is different for it is a special Logicalist Republic that keeps religion. it is a pariah among the Logicalists but is more easily accepted by the others.

[QuoProQuid]

It seems unlikely to me that the Logical Republics would be able to wipe out all religion within their country, especially considering their foundation seems somewhat recent (1840s I think). Churches still existed in the USSR, despite it being aggressively atheist. After/If the Logical regimes fall, I imagine most of their populaces will be much less observant than the rest of Europe, but not everyone will be an atheist.

Also, I like the Muslim Sicily, but I doubt all of it would be green especially with the Pope right on their border.

What did we ever agree on with Malta?

EDIT: Also, Andorra is run partly by the Bishop of Urgell. I doubt that they would be atheistic. I was imagining Andorra being a dumping ground for people the Logical Republics want to get rid of, but do not want to kill. It would be a bit funny actually. A Co-principality trapped between two republics.

[Turquoise Blue]

It seems unlikely to me that the Logical Republics would be able to wipe out all religion within their country, especially considering their foundation seems somewhat recent (1840s I think). Churches still existed in the USSR, despite it being aggressively atheist. After/If the Logical regimes fall, I imagine most of their populaces will be much less observant than the rest of Europe, but not everyone will be an atheist.

Also, I like the predominately Muslim Sicily, but I doubt all of it would be green especially with the Pope on their border.

Fair enough, lets have the Logical Republics take a stance against the Church but religion is not outlawed per se.

[Lyly]

How does this look then?

You can interpret the yellow-gray to mean that the majority is atheistic, but the largest religion otherwise is Catholocism. Same for green-gray and purple-gray.

I also modified some of the religions' borders somewhat, most notably in the Balkans.

[Turquoise Blue]

Looks good!

[False Dmitri]

This corrects some of my tracing errors when I created the Luxemburg empire. Originally I had not intended the Luxemburgs to control Austria, but our group's subsequent claims and assumptions made it impossible to put Austria anywhere else. Austria proper (Upper and Lower) now belong to the Luxemburgs, but Styria and Carniola are in Hungarian territory, while Tirol also controls Salzburg and Carinthia. The Luxemburgs' exclave is called Helfenstein, not whatever-it-was before. Erfurt is now in the correct place. I hope this is acceptable to everyone. The story of Austria's dismemberment should be an interesting one!

(EDIT) An alternative would be to give Upper and/or Lower Austria to Erfurt.