Monica's baby, the ruin of Clinton - a TL

[BlairWitch749]

Prolouge - He could have made it right with the book. But he hasn't. He is a revisionist of history. He has lied - Monica Lewinsky OTL

January 7th 1996 Washington DC

22 year old White House intern Monica Lewinsky strolled along the reflecting pool before the Washington Monument. Over the last 3 months, she had several sexual encounters with the President of the United States, William (Bill) Jefferson Clinton. These things had certainly happened before, the White House legend was that Clinton's idol JFK was known to have Marilyn Monroe as "guest" in his bedroom from time to time. Monica was certainly no starlet, in fact as a somewhat lost 20 something fresh out of college, her relationship with Bill was an clear sign of some of the serious emotional problems she was having. Suffering from an acute depression, she latched on to an inappropriate and impossible relationship with Bill, feeling that she would never be good enough to be a man's number one woman.

There was of course more to it than that, the power and office of course had their charm, but Bill was a handsome and charming man, burdened with an iced marriage that had lost its charm more than a decade before, but kept on for political expedience. Monica, even if her heart knew she couldn't have Bill to herself still genuinely cared for him... and as the encounters continued, in her lost state she became more enfatuated with him, despite an increasing deep feeling about the wrongness of the situation. As she strolled along the reflecting pool with the crisp winter air blowing through her raven hair, she spotted a couple, an older man and a younger woman, her belly protruding rather obviously, Monica locked onto them and stared... it was probably his second marriage, they looked happy, they where a family; the image burned itself into her heart in a way she didn't appreciate at first as she disengaged from her stroll and made her way to the White House

.......

that afternoon Monica took the lead for the first time which surprised Bill who normally exercised control of the relationship. Monica had him to herself in the Oval Office, and on the "Resolute Desk" she carefully and teasingly manipulated Bill into giving her what she wanted. Lost in lust and the moment, Bill gave in to her and they mode love quietly and rapidly in his office, when it ended, as it always did, the shame and embarassment of what they where, and what they where doing set in, Monica took some time to compose her self and clean her self up, Bill seemed nervous about what happened. She reassured him that she was on birth control, and that she cared for him deeply... he was silent, perhaps lightly stunned at his own behavior. Monica bit her lip at the lie, she had never lied to Bill before, since she wasn't seeing anyone sexually (she and Bill had only had oral relations previously) she had stopped taking the pill some time ago; she just felt that hearing that would stop him from feeling worried or guilty about what they had done... she wanted it to happen again...

to be continued...


thoughts?

[historybuff]

Interesting idea, keep up the good work.

[Color-Copycat]

Er, this came totally out of left field. An interesting start, can't deny that.

[Adam]

Interesting idea, keep up the good work.

Er, this came totally out of left field. An interesting start, can't deny that.

Aye, I third what they said.

[theReturner]

Odd for a TL to start of like a porno. :p

Anyway, could be interesting. I'll keep an eye on it.

[RogueBeaver]

I'll be following and will be happy to provide any advice if need be.

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Time to whip out the popcorn and read this bad boy.

:D

[jmill]

Slick Willie can't wiggle his way out of this one.:D

[Mike Stearns]

Hmmmm...a TL that starts like a trashy romance novel. This should be interesting.

[jayel]

you forget he "did not have sex with that woman"

[King Nazar]

Looks interesting:)

[Commissar]

Hmmmm...a TL that starts like a trashy romance novel. This should be interesting.

Is this a bad time to mention I read Harelquin Romance Novels?

[Wendell]

I'm curious about this because I'm not sure what it would really change long term, except perhaps aspects of Bill Clinton's post-presidency.

[BlairWitch749]

thanx for the interest gents :)....... this is something I have been cooking on the back burner since I joined (RB I'll be taking you up on consultation frequently since you offered)... I have a lot of open projects, this is going to be something of a micro tl for its first version; so we will follow the POD from Jan 7th 1996 to election day 1996, and depending on feed back and speculation, i'll expand from there

[EWHM]

Clinton in this scenario might actually come clean earlier, which IMO would help him since he couldn't be nailed for perjury in the sexual harrassment case. Yeah, he might lose the suit---if memory serves, Monica was brought up in that suit as a means of establishing a pattern of behavior by Bill by the plantiff---but that's small fry for a sitting president. He probably could have said something like---Mistakes were made in an inappropriate relationship between Ms Lewinski and I and just settled the suit. This would probably butterfly away the impeachment hearings entirely.

[Some Bloke]

Bloody hell, I had no idea she was that young!

[NoOneFamous]

There could be no settlement. Paula Jones, who makes Sarah Palin look like a Nobel Prize winner in physics by comparison, dumped her highly politicized but still ethical lawyers Davis and Cammerata and fallen into the orbit of the VRWC (Vast Right Wing Conspiracy) fulltime. They had this airhead convinced she was America's answer to Joan of Arc regarding Slick Willie. I make no apologies for Clinton. That SOB enabled very wicked people to weaken him and destroy a lot of the people around him who had put their faith in him.

What you suggest WAS offered, and spurned. No amount of $$$, no amount of apologies, would satisfy Jones' new handlers, except Clinton being escorted out of the White House in handcuffs, leg irons, and wearing an orange jumpsuit.:rolleyes: I'm quite serious in this. Newt Gingrich himself openly boasted that the GOP in Congress would remove Clinton for perjury, then Gore, for the "crime" of pardoning Clinton, so he, Newt, could become the 44th POTUS.:eek: Oh yeah, they knew what they were doing.


How is a Presidential pardon a crime?

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

How is a Presidential pardon a crime?

Not a crime in the legal sense but in the moral sense, I don't think this timeline would have the same sense of a "Ford pardoning Nixon" feeling, though I still think there'd be all sorts of ways to connive and get Gore out of office if the GOP folks realized they could nail Clinton on such an issue.

[Rickshaw]

Bloody hell, I had no idea she was that young!

What has age got to do with it? She had reached the age of majority and was an adult. She knew what she was doing (if she didn't then I have wonder how she got to the White House, not even they let complete airheads into their intern programme I'd hope!).

I find it interesting the comments that the Right were so hell bent on nailing Clinton. Was there no consideration by them of the potential damage this could cause to the American polity?

[Rickshaw]

One of the reasons this was able to happen at all was due to the Newt government shutdown. Since most non-security personnel were furloughed (and even those who stayed were unpaid), it left Clinton alone with the always unpaid interns. And a complete airhead almost got within one heartbeat of the Oval Office, so I think we have had bigger things to worry about then dumdum interns.


Still doesn't explain what her age has to do with this. Legal adulthood is what, in the US? 18 or 21? Either way, she was older than it. I also can't believe she was a complete airhead. Foolish perhaps but completely stupid? I don't think so.


Concern for the American polity? Well, that was a question asked over and over and over again. But isolated in their crazy quilt districts, the GOP House Congressmen and women were only hearing what THEY wanted to hear. If a Macon Georgia suburb was filled with people who despised Bill Clinton, they didn't care if the charge was "suspicion of being slick". Guilty! It was all about re-election, feeding the beast of the Republican base and it's pathology for the Clintons, and satisfying their rich donors in the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy (VRWC). The country could go to Hell, just as long as Newt and his gang could nail that Great White Whale.:mad:

Yes, it was very much a Captain Ahab Syndrome. And like Captain Ahab (Speaker Newt), and the crew of the Pequod (the House Republican Leadership), they paid the price for it.:mad::D Schadenfreude.:o

I suspected that was the case. Unable to see the wood for the trees, they couldn't see that once they set a precedence it was possible that it could be used against them and their side of politics just as easily as they were using it against Clinton. Ironic they got their comeuppance. I see Newt is touting for the Presidency again. Do you think he's learnt any lessons?

[TyranicusMaximus]

Can this be moved to chat?

[Arachnid]

The Dems are the party of good governance, not government shutdowns.

Are you joking? The Democrats are hardly the party of good governance they are the party of big government, there is a serious difference.
I'm not going to defend the Bush Administration, they way it let the deficit get out of control was completely indefensible and the Clinton administration post 1994 (when they were held in check by Republic Congress) did a great job. House Democrats (thanks to those super partisan districts) are just as nuts as the worst of the Republicans and far more dangerous.
Also on a state level the Republicans are far better at restraining the growth of government, keeping debt and taxes levels down and letting the economy grown than Democrats. You only have to compare Republican dominated Texas with Democrat dominated California (and I know about Arnie but a. he's a RINO and b. the legislature kept him from doing anything).

[Hendryk]

I find it interesting the comments that the Right were so hell bent on nailing Clinton. Was there no consideration by them of the potential damage this could cause to the American polity?
It's the Republicans you're talking about here. The American polity can go to hell so long as they get to damage the Democrats. Look at the current Congress.

Also on a state level the Republicans are far better at restraining the growth of government, keeping debt and taxes levels down and letting the economy grown than Democrats. You only have to compare Republican dominated Texas with Democrat dominated California (and I know about Arnie but a. he's a RINO and b. the legislature kept him from doing anything).
And now here comes the wishful thinking. You either don't know much about American politics or are being deliberately disingenuous.

This whole thread is just begging to be moved to Chat anyway.

[lord caedus]

It's the Republicans you're talking about here. The American polity can go to hell so long as they get to damage the Democrats. Look at the current Congress.


And now here comes the wishful thinking. You either don't know much about American politics or are being deliberately disingenuous.

This whole thread is just begging to be moved to Chat anyway.

Right on all three counts, Hendryk. If BlairWitch749 doesn't come up with another update soon, the mods will probably have no choice but to move this to chat. It's degenerated pretty quickly.

[BlairWitch749]

for craps sake people focus... this is going to be an actual time line; keep your speculation to story arc

[BlairWitch749]

The Plus Sign (Chapter 1) - Sometimes when people are under stress, they hate to think, and it's the time when they most need to think.” - Bill Clinton

Washington DC February 4th 1996 (approximately 3 weeks into Monica's pregnancy)

Lewinsky vomited... emptying the contents of her stomach until there was only green bile left. Her hair was discheleved, a raw smell filled the bathroom of her apartment and her face was bright red and she tried to compose herself infront of the vanity mirror. This was the second day in a row of the intense stomach discomfort, at first Monica thought she was coming down with a seasonal flu (since he had a bout of the stomach problems the previous week), but the fact that the nusea had returned really worried her since she was now more than 15 days overdue for her period.

She had been trying to write off the lack of period the last two weeks by assuming that the high levels of stress at her job, and in trying to cope with her relationship with Bill had thrown her cycle off course, but now she was honestly starting to think it might be possible that their little escapade last month had left her to carry Bill's baby.

With her hands shaking she composed herself as best possible and left her apartment for the 24 pharmacy down the road...her heart was fluttering the whole time as she walked into the store down the "family planning" aisle...she picked up a box of two EPT's and made her way to the check out. She felt embarrassed, she was too young to have a baby, and he was a married man... the president of the United States no less. She thought the cashier would see through her, as she quickly and meekly handed her the pregnancy test face down, but the clerk paid her no special attention, wrang up her transaction, collected her cash and bid her good day.

Lewinsky made her way back to her apartment, with her palms sweating and her breathing ragged by the adrenaline and fear coursing through her body. She locked herself in her bathroom and opened the box. She carefully read the instructions three times in order to understand how to use it properly, and maybe to procrastinate the event. She went on the stick and then held her breath and covered her face as she waited for the required couple of minutes for the test to work. Seconds felt like hours as a faint horizontal line started to appear, Monica started to feel relief as she peaked, but then to her total body shock a faint verticle line became to come in as well, and when the time expired it was undoubetly a plus sign.

Tears started to run down her young face, no the test had to be wrong, they where not 100 percent accurate, so she repeated the process again with the second application... and after the time passed again she was presented with a plus sign.

She threw the test in the garbadge, how could this have happened, throwing herself onto her bed, she hysterically cried into her pillow until she had difficulty breathing. Monica wanted to call her mother, but even though her mom loved and supported her unconditionally, she would ask questions as to who the father was, and Monica could not bear to lie to her by saying it was someone she didn't know; nor could she tell her it was President Clinton's baby. She wanted to tell Bill also, but this was something one couldn't do over the phone and then Monica started to panic about his possible reaction. After an hour the anxiety started to subside; just because the test said it was so, doesn't mean it was... Monica decided to make an emergency appointment with her OBGYN and she called into work saying she would be late

When she closed her door behind her to lock it, she unconsciously covered her belly to protect it from bumping into the door. Monica was stunned by her actions as her key turned in, and was forced again to take her tissues out of her purse to wipe away tears, as she left the building to head to the doctor's office

to be continued...

thoughts?

please keep your speculation within the arc of the story if its possible gents

[BlairWitch749]

What has age got to do with it? She had reached the age of majority and was an adult. She knew what she was doing (if she didn't then I have wonder how she got to the White House, not even they let complete airheads into their intern programme I'd hope!).

I find it interesting the comments that the Right were so hell bent on nailing Clinton. Was there no consideration by them of the potential damage this could cause to the American polity?

She was of course of legal age,

but given the age difference, and the role of supervisor and subordinate... its not unfair to say that it has a wiff of Clinton taking advantage of her (I can't speak to if this was actually the case, but the perception can certainly exist)

[MerryPrankster]

Since BW is continuing the TL, can we move it back to Post-1900?

[Lemon flavoured]

Since BW is continuing the TL, can we move it back to Post-1900?

Seconded. Leaving it in chat is basically saying that we can't do political TLs in post-1900.

[Commissar]

Forget the damn stain on the blue dress, no one is going to give a shit about it with a baby. Hillary may just divorce, blowjobs are one thing, this is a whole new level.

[RogueBeaver]

Edwards on a national level. The last time this happened was Cleveland, but he was someone of solid integrity in his professional life (unlike Clinton in the public perception, who has the Whitewater drama to deal with) and the child was born before he was even nominated.

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

Edwards on a national level. The last time this happened was Cleveland, but he was someone of solid integrity in his professional life (unlike Clinton in the public perception, who has the Whitewater drama to deal with) and the child was born before he was even nominated.

Yeah, and Cleveland had been paying child support for the kid and everything, he basically had the (truthful) perception of being a good man in a bad situation. And people say elections today are dirty, HA!

[Chengar Qordath]

One thing that does spring to mind with this TL; one would expect that when Bill and/or members of his administration learns about the pregnancy there might be some effort to convince Monica to get an abortion in an effort to keep the affair under the radar. That could lead to all manner of interesting complications...

[wolf_brother]

One thing that does spring to mind with this TL; one would expect that when Bill and/or members of his administration learns about the pregnancy there might be some effort to convince Monica to get an abortion in an effort to keep the affair under the radar. That could lead to all manner of interesting complications...

I'm not sure about this one; more likely she's given a fat wad of cash and sent off somewhere, far, far away. There's far better ways of keeping people quiet than resorting to the most heavy-handed approach possible.

[Chengar Qordath]

I'm not sure about this one; more likely she's given a fat wad of cash and sent off somewhere, far, far away. There's far better ways of keeping people quiet than resorting to the most heavy-handed approach possible.

I doubt there would be anything too heavy-handed, but all things being equal I expect everyone in the Clinton Administration would be happier if Monica didn't have a baby that a simple DNA test could prove was Bill's.

[Koenig von Poposia]

Cleveland was a bachelor at the time, but the mother of that child had several candidates who could have been the father. But Cleveland was the only bachelor among them, so he took responsibility. His famous line: "Tell them the truth!" wowed em in the Gilded Age. He got married to a 21 year old Frances Folsom in the White House, said to be the most beautiful First Lady in American history.:)

EDIT: Missed HeavyWeaponsGuy's last post.:o

Frances Folsom Cleveland was my great-grandmother's second cousin. Although a handsome woman and not unpleasing to the eye, I don't know if I can agree that my distant relative is accurately described as the MOST beautiful First Lady. So many of these early photographs just do not capture the vitality and charm of a living person.

http://0.tqn.com/d/womenshistory/1/7/y/I/frances_cleveland.jpg (http://0.tqn.com/d/womenshistory/1/0/y/I/frances_cleveland.jpg)

[pnyckqx]

Prolouge - He could have made it right with the book. But he hasn't. He is a revisionist of history. He has lied - Monica Lewinsky OTL

January 7th 1996 Washington DC

22 year old White House intern Monica Lewinsky strolled along the reflecting pool before the Washington Monument. Over the last 3 months, she had several sexual encounters with the President of the United States, William (Bill) Jefferson Clinton. These things had certainly happened before, the White House legend was that Clinton's idol JFK was known to have Marilyn Monroe as "guest" in his bedroom from time to time. Monica was certainly no starlet, in fact as a somewhat lost 20 something fresh out of college, her relationship with Bill was an clear sign of some of the serious emotional problems she was having. Suffering from an acute depression, she latched on to an inappropriate and impossible relationship with Bill, feeling that she would never be good enough to be a man's number one woman.

There was of course more to it than that, the power and office of course had their charm, but Bill was a handsome and charming man, burdened with an iced marriage that had lost its charm more than a decade before, but kept on for political expedience. Monica, even if her heart knew she couldn't have Bill to herself still genuinely cared for him... and as the encounters continued, in her lost state she became more enfatuated with him, despite an increasing deep feeling about the wrongness of the situation. As she strolled along the reflecting pool with the crisp winter air blowing through her raven hair, she spotted a couple, an older man and a younger woman, her belly protruding rather obviously, Monica locked onto them and stared... it was probably his second marriage, they looked happy, they where a family; the image burned itself into her heart in a way she didn't appreciate at first as she disengaged from her stroll and made her way to the White House

.......

that afternoon Monica took the lead for the first time which surprised Bill who normally exercised control of the relationship. Monica had him to herself in the Oval Office, and on the "Resolute Desk" she carefully and teasingly manipulated Bill into giving her what she wanted. Lost in lust and the moment, Bill gave in to her and they mode love quietly and rapidly in his office, when it ended, as it always did, the shame and embarassment of what they where, and what they where doing set in, Monica took some time to compose her self and clean her self up, Bill seemed nervous about what happened. She reassured him that she was on birth control, and that she cared for him deeply... he was silent, perhaps lightly stunned at his own behavior. Monica bit her lip at the lie, she had never lied to Bill before, since she wasn't seeing anyone sexually (she and Bill had only had oral relations previously) she had stopped taking the pill some time ago; she just felt that hearing that would stop him from feeling worried or guilty about what they had done... she wanted it to happen again...

to be continued...


thoughts?


Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

i despised Bill Clinton's political views --in as far as he had any ideology , but recognize him as a genius in political manipulation and possibly the most skillful President ever in the ability to manipulate Presidential power and influence. Far better than Eisenhower or Reagan.

That disclaimer aside, the situation would not mean much of anything different than OTL unless the Clinton administration goes to extreme actions to cover up the scandal.

Monica getting pregnant hatches lots of butterflies.

[Janprimus]

One question though, Clinton certainly wasn't the first president with a mistress and I guess that some presidents could have had bastards while in office.

At OTL the time, this especially came to mind, when at the same time it became publically that the French president Mitterand had a mistress and a daughter out of wedlock, which were invited by the widow of Mitterand to attend his funeral.
Anyway what I've noticed was the totally different response, although some of Clinton critics turned out to be hypocrites themselves (they had their own mistresses).

[RogueBeaver]

Completely different political culture and society, you're comparing apples and oranges. Adulterous presidents in the 20th century include Wilson (pre-presidency), Harding (pre-presidency), FDR (who had the closest thing to a formal mistress), JFK, LBJ and Clinton. The last president to have an illegitimate child was Grover Cleveland in the 1880s, but it was born pre-presidency and he paid child support, taking public responsibility.

[historybuff]

Good to see this TL back where it belongs, crazy people wanted this moved to the Chat section.

[BlairWitch749]

Completely different political culture and society, you're comparing apples and oranges. Adulterous presidents in the 20th century include Wilson (pre-presidency), Harding (pre-presidency), FDR (who had the closest thing to a formal mistress), JFK, LBJ and Clinton. The last president to have an illegitimate child was Grover Cleveland in the 1880s, but it was born pre-presidency and he paid child support, taking public responsibility.

And there has been speculation about HW Bush (the woman's name was Jennifer something; was too young can't recall)

And speculation about Obama and Valerie Jaret having an inappropriate relationship as well

Don't forget that Ike had a mistress as well (albeit during the war)

it actually seems to have been the rule more than the exception

albeit a mistress, with an our of wedlock baby, at the dawn of the 24 hour news cycle... whole new ballgame... plus none of the other affairs (except cleveland) where more than whispers in terms of public awareness

[BlairWitch749]

Thirded.:o Will Tripp be entering the picture?:confused:

Yes, she will be introduced in the 3rd or 4th installment, and will be a linchpin character

[EWHM]

There could be no settlement. Paula Jones, who makes Sarah Palin look like a Nobel Prize winner in physics by comparison, dumped her highly politicized but still ethical lawyers Davis and Cammerata and fallen into the orbit of the VRWC (Vast Right Wing Conspiracy) fulltime. They had this airhead convinced she was America's answer to Joan of Arc regarding Slick Willie. I make no apologies for Clinton. That SOB enabled very wicked people to weaken him and destroy a lot of the people around him who had put their faith in him.

What you suggest WAS offered, and spurned. No amount of $$$, no amount of apologies, would satisfy Jones' new handlers, except Clinton being escorted out of the White House in handcuffs, leg irons, and wearing an orange jumpsuit.:rolleyes: I'm quite serious in this. Newt Gingrich himself openly boasted that the GOP in Congress would remove Clinton for perjury, then Gore, for the "crime" of pardoning Clinton, so he, Newt, could become the 44th POTUS.:eek: Oh yeah, they knew what they were doing.


Usertron,
If Clinton doesn't lie about Lewinski, there's no perjury. If there's no perjury, he just loses a sexual harrassment suit. People lose those suits all the time and they don't go to jail. Yes, he takes a major political black eye if he just fesses up and loses the suit but probably less of one than he took IOTL.

[Comablack]

How about better Slick Willie doesn't go on national TV and lie to your face about having sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky, or is there really anyone who doesn't believe oral sex is sex. The irrefutable evidence of Clinton's infidelity, Pregnant intern is going to come out. He's way better off coming out and saying , " I had a moment of weakness and sinned against my marital vows". than he is OTL perjuring himself with camera's rolling.

[Cuāuhtemōc]

This is a very comeplling time-line, Blair. Kudos from the Carribean!

- Drago

[RPW@Cy]

How about better Slick Willie doesn't go on national TV and lie to your face about having sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky, or is there really anyone who doesn't believe oral sex is sex. The irrefutable evidence of Clinton's infidelity, Pregnant intern is going to come out. He's way better off coming out and saying , " I had a moment of weakness and sinned against my marital vows".

The ironic thing is I can imagine Clinton doing that really well, too.

[Commissar]

The ironic thing is I can imagine Clinton doing that really well, too.

Oh yeah,
By the way, Monica is going to need Secret Service protection once the pregnancy becomes public knowledge.

[Chengar Qordath]

I would have to agree that if Clinton comes right out and admits the affair from the start, it could actually end up going better for him than OTL. Like a couple other political scandals, the attempts at cover-up did far more damage than the actual scandalous behavior itself.

[BlairWitch749]

Oh yeah,
By the way, Monica is going to need Secret Service protection once the pregnancy becomes public knowledge.

I didn't consider this, but undoubetly you are right

[Shevek23]

Was there no consideration by them of the potential damage this could cause to the American polity?

Nope.
------
A somewhat more nuanced answer, that will only get me into hotter water--the sort of "polity" that would be the outcome of their success is what the Republicans were aiming at, IMHO. Anything a Democrat does, from eating either a soyburger or a Big Mac to creating Social Security, is automatically an impeachable crime in their view. Anything a Republican does, from shooting a fellow Republican in the face with a shotgun to invading a country on the other side of the world under palpably false pretenses is statesmanlike and "grown-up." This is the world-view they operate under; success in this enterprise would merely validate their assumption, Republican=legitimate.

Obviously my cynical but serious judgement in this matter is an example of what I suppose you mean by "damage to the polity." I don't ever suppose any Republican proposal, program, claim, or intention is ever on the up-and-up; if it benefits a majority of Americans that's an accident. (And will be rectified shortly if they continue in power.:eek:)

The real damage of course is that in this political environment Democratic leadership is under little pressure to do well either. Anything they do will automatically be attacked as the worst crime since Rasputin and Stalin had a love-child anyway. They don't even have to counter-attack against the R's--I'm already convinced the latter mean no good anyhow!

[Koenig von Poposia]

In the White House she was. I'm sure a 21 year old woman could be found somewhere in the long list of our FLOTUSes more beautiful than your indirect ancestor, but they weren't First Lady at the time. First Ladies tend to be minimum 40's and up. Even Jackie Kennedy was starting to show her age as FLOTUS, though I'm sure that at 21 it was a different matter entirely.

BTW? That knocking you hear is Frances, haunting you.:eek:

OK, I concede. Like all the women in my family, Frances Folsom Cleveland was lovely. *yells at the ceiling* You can stop knocking now, Cousin Frankie!

[EWHM]

Except that Jones' new handlers wanted terms that were unacceptable. No amount of "fesses" would be enough for them. It's not like they gave a damn about Paula Jones. They didn't WANT a settlement, only the appearance of demanding one. They wanted the leader of the free world stuck in a courtroom day after day stretching the case out until inauguration day 2001. Get the right judge, and they might get that. Can you imagine that circus?

It doesn't really matter what they want. If he basically stops fighting and admits culpability, the jury decides what the damages are going to be, he takes his lumps, and moves on. It is constantly fighting, filing motions, etc that keeps you stuck in the courtroom day after day. It's amazingly easy to lose a case quickly if you really don't want to fight it.

[neopeius]

I don't ever suppose any Republican proposal, program, claim, or intention is ever on the up-and-up; if it benefits a majority of Americans that's an accident. (And will be rectified shortly if they continue in power.:eek:)


Sounds like Lex Luthor...

[EWHM]

Except that then they can move on to all his other bimbos. One at a time. Did you know they insisted on introducing evidence about Clinton in a state of tumescence? I am not making this up.:mad: Oh yeah, justice was their only concern.:rolleyes:

I just don't see an early resolution on this. She demanded an apology, in the most abject of terms. How is that resolved? Davis and Cammarata GOT Jones her financial settlement. She spurned it wholly on the idea that Clinton's apology didn't go far enough. My point was, it never would go far enough. So even with a jury verdict for $$$, Fixed News would have her on the air night after night on a plaster-of-paris pedestal demanding her "rightful apology".

Once the suit is resolved, the issue is likely a dead letter from a news perspective. All he has to do is pay the damages specified by the court and shut up about it. The other 'bimbo eruptions' weren't sexual harrassment cases if memory serves, more just tabloid fodder. Courts don't normally rule to force you to apologize, they generally deal more in assessing damages.

[The Admiral Hook]

Well, while Maverick has a point, (a rather generalized and snobbish point made probably mostly out of humor, but a valid point none-the-less...) this is written like an actual narrative and is to my knowledge unique on this board in its subject matter, therefore, I'm subscribing with great interest. It's always nice when a TL breeds this kind of strong debate and the sexy bits of this were a AH.com first for me. Nice touch and great work so far!

One question: As this child would conceivably be fourteen-ish now it's not so far out to assume that you're going to follow this love child's ascension to adulthood, yes? And if so... any spoilers? Does he/she enter politics or something altogether different? It would probably be a pretty good looking character, if the parents are any indicator, and maybe media exploited child actor isn't out of the question either. Spoil the ending for me and I promise to still keep reading and commenting with interest! Haha.

Keep it up!

[FDW]

Interesting TL here…

[TyranicusMaximus]

-Snip-

Would you please do us all a favor and cut out the political commentary that isn't directly related to the timeline? I realize I'm no moderator, but this is really offtopic.

BW, as a big fan of former President Clinton, I follow this timeline with interest, even if it angers me:p

[BlairWitch749]

Well, while Maverick has a point, (a rather generalized and snobbish point made probably mostly out of humor, but a valid point none-the-less...) this is written like an actual narrative and is to my knowledge unique on this board in its subject matter, therefore, I'm subscribing with great interest. It's always nice when a TL breeds this kind of strong debate and the sexy bits of this were a AH.com first for me. Nice touch and great work so far!

One question: As this child would conceivably be fourteen-ish now it's not so far out to assume that you're going to follow this love child's ascension to adulthood, yes? And if so... any spoilers? Does he/she enter politics or something altogether different? It would probably be a pretty good looking character, if the parents are any indicator, and maybe media exploited child actor isn't out of the question either. Spoil the ending for me and I promise to still keep reading and commenting with interest! Haha.

Keep it up!

Whilst I have political disagreements with Clinton, I truly admire his speaking ability and political savoir faire (since I'm too young to really remember much of Reagan (born '83) he is the most gifted politician of my lifetime that I have seen in action)

My interest in the TL comes not just from a peculiar POD but also from the circus that went around OTL. It was the first story (maybe second if you want to count the OJ Simpson trial, although, the internet was very new back then so I prefer not to count it) where you really had the first 24 hour media blitz news cycles, print, broadcast, cable and internet which where constantly breaking, escalating and reporting a story

So a decent percentage of my work will actually revolve around the media extravaganza that will surround this story, which I can only imagine would be greatly magnified by a love child...

I will not be focusing the TL on the actions or development of the child itself... just Clinton and the general American political spectrum/media spectrum. My goal is to explore this idea out to election day 1996, and then based on feedback and speculation from the board I might expand it farther chronologically

[BlairWitch749]

I take it this is not good news? (Chapter 2) If the Soviet empire still existed, I'd be terrified. The fact is, we can afford a fairly ignorant presidency now - Newt Gingrich

Washington DC February 4th 1996 (approximately 3 weeks into Monica's pregnancy)

Because she had made a same day appointment, Monica had to wait inside the office of contemporary woman's care for over an hour before her doctor would see her. She was lucky she went during the day, these where mostly working women getting exams and checkups, had she gone for an evening appointment, she would have had to look at dozens of pregnant women who the later appointments where generally reserved for, she probably couldn't have handled that by herself. Even still the hour she waited was endless, and despite her taking a pile of magazines, she was just too nervous and worked up to focus on them, and she ended up rereading page after page without absorbing anything. When the nurse called her she nearly flew out of her chair to the door. The mega anxiety was making her bladder play games with her, but at the same time she couldn't relieve herself because she knew a sample would be required AND they could call her at any moment, the nurse handing her the cup with the marked line was the first sense of relief she had all day

She filled the sampling cup and left it in the bathroom for processing and was lead by the nurse down the hallway towards the exam rooms. The nurse first weighed her (as was the practice's custom) made a note of it in her chart and then lead her to an exam room closing the door behind her.

Nurse: So Monica why are we here today?
Monica: I think I might be pregnant (her eyes where starting to water)
Nurse: Ok when was your last period?
Monica: December 14th
Nurse: Have you taken a home pregnancy test and have you had any symptoms besides the missed period
Monica: Yes I took two EPT's and they both came back positive and I've been throwing up in the mornings... and had pain and swelling in my breasts (she had to take several tissues out of her purse to dry her eyes, at least she wasn't sobbing yet)
Nurse: Allright hon, try to relax, it sounds like you have something going on, the doctor will be right with you, just change into the gown over here and get yourself in the seat and she will take care of you (the nurse brushed her hand reassuringly)

Monica changed quickly and sat in the reclined exam chair, where once again the waiting allowed her anxiety levels to creep up. 10 minutes felt like 10 years as she waited, bare except the gown for her doctor to show up. She entered... Monica was relieved her regular doctor was in today, and also relieved that it was a woman... she would understand, she could help.

The doctor flipped through Monica's chart

Doctor: Hmm you are a few weeks late and have had positive home tests right dear?
Monica: Yes
Doctor: Alright, well the results from your work up confirm the home tests... (the doctor considered giving her congratulations, but decided against it due to the girl's age, she decided she would gauge Monica's reaction first before such a thing)
Monica: (Once again her tears started, and this time she couldn't keep herself composed)
Doctor: I take it this is not good news then?
Monica: (through her tears and rapid breathing)....No... well I... I don't...
Doctor: It's OK dear, we are here to help. Does your boyfriend know?
Monica: I don't have a boyfriend (sniffling)
Doctor: Oh I see, you broke up, or it was with a casual date or...
Monica: (deciding she had to release some of the burden, and knowing her doctor was bound to not reveal anything anyway)... I've been having an affair with a married man (going through yet another stack of tissues)
Doctor: And he is the father?
Monica: Yes
Doctor: There, there dear, these things happen, you aren't the first I've seen, these pregnancies are always difficult, but you will find your way
Monica: Have the other girl's you've seen like that had abortions?
Doctor: Some yes, and some no, its an individual choice dear
Monica: I don't know what I want, I haven't told him yet or my mother or anybody
Doctor: Well you should be talking to someone Monica, either way you shouldn't tackle the situation alone
Monica: When do I have to decide?
Doctor: Well the earlier the better, but before 12 weeks is best and absolutely no later than 20
Monica: Good I'm only 3 or 4 weeks I have some time
Doctor: I'm afraid not dear, the counting begins with the date of your last period, you are 6 weeks pregnant
Monica: (crying renewed) 6 weeks already!?
Doctor: Yes, that one surprises quite a few people, if you are unsure what you want to do, I need you to do two things for me?
Monica: Ok?
Doctor: Tammy at the front desk is going to give you several sample packets of prenatal vitamins which are good for you and the baby, then I want you to make an appointment with her, unless you want to see me sooner to come for an ultrasound in 3 weeks (the doctor handed paperwork to Monica, hugged her, and told her that it would be alright)

Monica met the administrator at the front desk and handed her the papers from the doctor. Tammy congratulated her which made Monica feel uneasy, and this was compounded when she handed the 22 year old a starter "gift bag" which was filled with samples of vitamins, parenting magazines even a nursery design guide. She had to use every ounce of her personal strength to not break down in front of her, as she left the rear office area and came into the waiting room again. She saw a woman with her husband who was obviously more than 30 weeks pregnancy, and felt so overwhelmed by the situation that she had to bolt for the door and then the bathroom in the lobby where she experienced her third round of vomiting for the day.

She went home nervously, numbed by all the emotional stress of the day, she still had to go to work, but was feeling so derailed that she couldn't possibly just go in her current state... she had to talk to someone, Bill had to be later, and her mother was out; but she did have one person she could confide in about the situation, when she came into her apartment she put the baby gift bag down on her bed to explore it's content later, picked up the phone and called a friend in the pentagon public affair's department

to be continued...

thoughts?

[historybuff]

Keep it up. What was that Gingrich quote about?

[BlairWitch749]

Keep it up. What was that Gingrich quote about?

A foreshadowing of certain things ;) I'll hold off on the spoiler, because it'll be apparant in the next update anyway

Otherwise, I am going to try to have a quote from 1996 players in every update; I find it adds some charm to the TL

[Rickshaw]

Spooler? Its not Bill's! Its Hillary's! :eek:

[BlairWitch749]

Check your inbox (Chapter 3) “Obviously, if he has broken rules or done something that's wrong, he will have to stand the consequences- Richard Gephardt on the Lewinsky scandal; Meet the Press

Washington DC February 4th 1996 (approximately sic sic 6 weeks into Monica's pregnancy)

In her duties as a white house intern, Monica Lewinsky had worked with and befriended a few people in various governmental agencies. She ended up striking a close friendship with a women more than 20 years her senior named Linda Tripp, who previously worked at the Whitehouse during the George HW Bush administration, but had been transferred by the Clinton's to the Pentagon's Public Affair's unit. This had been political move, as hushed whispers labeled Tripp as the whistle blower on a secret affair between HW Bush and a White House worker, and everyone in the incoming administration thought it would be better for her to be in another building.

Despite the new locale, Tripp and Monica Lewinsky ended up traveling in similar circles and became friendly, with Tripp taking on a suido motherly role to unsure intern. Monica, even when she had her first encounters with Bill desperately needed to confide her secret with someone, and her friends, and her family where out of the question. The whisper's of Tripp's whistle blowing didn't make their way to Monica (as an intern, she was pretty low on the gossip scale) and the two kept their friendship quiet pretty naturally. So parallel to her affair, as an emotional release Monica had been telling Linda Tripp many of the details of sexual affair with the president.

Linda Tripp didn't approve, but blowing up the story on a 22 year old girl with all the consequences that would have on Monica was still something she hadn't come to grips with yet. However, she was furious at Clinton, she was a main player in the administration rumor mill and rumors of trists with numerous women before and during the presidency had made their way to her. Tripp, due to her mixed ideas of how to handle the situation in turn befriended a publishing agent named Lucianne Goldberg. The two had met earlier in the Clinton administration when Goldberg had been conducting interviews with staffers about Vince Foster for a new work she was writing. Tripp advised her that she was having conversations with a young intern who was sexually involved with President Clinton. Goldberg in turn found this to be sensational, the stuff a mega best seller was made of, and advised Tripp to start secretly recording all telephone conversations between herself and Monica Lewinsky.

Tripp had been doing this for a month or two already, when Monica called her up at work on February 4th 1996. As had now become customary, Tripp activated a tape recorder when she heard her friend on the phone.

Monica: Linda it's me (clearly upset) I just have to talk to someone, oh god I'm in trouble
Linda: What happened are you OK?
Monica: Linda, you swear you won't tell anyone about this, I need to trust you
Linda: I haven't told anyone your secrets, tell me what happened
Monica: Well you remember I told you that last time Bill and I went all the way right?
Linda: Yes and I told you that was wrong
Monica: I know I know... well, I'm pregnant
Linda: Oh my god, are you sure, when did you find this out?
Monica: Just this morning, I'm already 6 weeks (sniffeling and crying)
Linda: You poor baby, have you told him yet?
Monica: No not yet, I don't know how... I... I need some time to get my head together... I'm afraid... he is probably going to be unhappy...he might break up with me; god I don't know what to do
Linda: Take your time Monica, you just found out today, your upset; take a bit to absorb what's happened before you tell him I don't want you to be overwhelmed
Monica: You are probably right, I need to be ready to tell him before I do... I'm just scared to see him, he's a smart guy Linda he is going to know something is up
Linda: Distract him as best you can, until you are ready; and don't base what you want to do with the baby on his reaction... remember its YOUR baby and your body ok?
Monica: OK thanks Linda, your saving my life by letting me talk to you about this
Linda: Don't worry I'm here if you need me, keep me in the loop
Monica: I will, see you later, I have to get ready for work; Goodbye

Linda hung up the phone and turned off the recorder, and then scanned around herself...holy shit she is pregnant with president Clinton's baby and I am the only one who knows; and I have it on tape

Linda needed a few minutes to digest everything she had just heard, a co worker stopped by her desk and told her to check her email inbox; as a fellow right winger, he and Tripp chatted frequently about politics and news stories, and shared internet links that each other might find interesting.

Check your inbox Linda

Inside was a conservative newsletter... actually it was a compilation of links to various news stories with a conservative spin or discussing world/national events. The headline was a very ironic and quirky name for a media service/network; in bold black letters at the top of the page, the compilation was called "THE DRUDGE REPORT"

to be continued...


thoughts?

two updates in one day because YOU deserve it!

[mrmandias]

To be fair, all post-1960 political TLs are just poorly written masturbatory exercises, so there's no point in singling this one out.

Back in post-1900 then.

Uh, this is actually very well-written.

[mrmandias]

Would you please do us all a favor and cut out the political commentary that isn't directly related to the timeline? I realize I'm no moderator, but this is really offtopic.


No kidding. I don't know whether I'm more embarrassed for the left commenters or the right commenters on this one. All the off-topic political commentary in this thread has been uniquely horrible.

[BlairWitch749]

No kidding. I don't know whether I'm more embarrassed for the left commenters or the right commenters on this one. All the off-topic political commentary in this thread has been uniquely horrible.

It's disappointing... I was hoping that the unique POD would have plenty to speculate on with going all modern politics crossfire :(

[mrmandias]

One thought. In the short term, this POD is going to be a much bigger deal. But in the long term, Clinton might actually look less sleazy and have a better reputation. He won't be making casuistical distinctions about what sex is, and having a baby, while more reckless, actually makes it look more like he had genuine feelings for Monica, not just using an intern. I can see a more sympathetic narrative emerging out of this, though the consequences to Clinton's presidency and marriage will probably be more severe.

Whilst I have political disagreements with Clinton, I truly admire his speaking ability and political savoir faire (since I'm too young to really remember much of Reagan (born '83) he is the most gifted politician of my lifetime that I have seen in action)

My interest in the TL comes not just from a peculiar POD but also from the circus that went around OTL. It was the first story (maybe second if you want to count the OJ Simpson trial, although, the internet was very new back then so I prefer not to count it) where you really had the first 24 hour media blitz news cycles, print, broadcast, cable and internet which where constantly breaking, escalating and reporting a story

So a decent percentage of my work will actually revolve around the media extravaganza that will surround this story, which I can only imagine would be greatly magnified by a love child...

I will not be focusing the TL on the actions or development of the child itself... just Clinton and the general American political spectrum/media spectrum. My goal is to explore this idea out to election day 1996, and then based on feedback and speculation from the board I might expand it farther chronologically

[mrmandias]

Re Ch. 3:

pseudo, not suido

[lloyd007]

One thought. In the short term, this POD is going to be a much bigger deal. But in the long term, Clinton might actually look less sleazy and have a better reputation. He won't be making casuistical distinctions about what sex is, and having a baby, while more reckless, actually makes it look more like he had genuine feelings for Monica, not just using an intern. I can see a more sympathetic narrative emerging out of this, though the consequences to Clinton's presidency and marriage will probably be more severe.

Depends on how he plays it, Hillary's reaction, and etc. One thing that probably won't happen is an impeachment, Bill can't equivocate and parse out of a baby.

Considering the title of the TL, however, I have a pretty good hunch the final reaction isn't going to be sympathetic to Clinton... ;)

Politically Clinton will have all his political capital fly out of the Oval Office and into deep space where it will never be heard from again. The Reps will have a field day in '98 to '00, possibly reviving and passing a lot of stuff that got shot down in the govn't shutdown.

[Mr. Stubacca]

Subscribed.

Looking forward to seeing where this one goes...

[Lemon flavoured]

Uh, this is actually very well-written.

I agree. Certainly an interesting TL.

[historybuff]

Ooh, sounds like Trip could cell Monica's pregnancy to the press if she wanted to. I don't see why a lot of people are tearing this TL to pieces, it's great.

[BlairWitch749]

The Whispers (Chapter 4) Some of the best news stories start in gossip. Monica Lewinsky certainly was gossip in the beginning. I had heard it months before I printed it. - Matt Drudge

Matt Drudge's Hollywood California apartment February 4th 1996


Matthew Drudge was a 20 something who was lost, not unlike Monika Lewinsky herself. He hadn't gone to college, and just barely got out of high school itself. He had held a number of odd jobs, from the night shift at 7 Eleven to Managing a New York City Supermarket. His parents seemed to dictate that he should do better, his father was an accomplished federal social worker, and his mother was a staffer to Senator Ted Kennedy; however their divorce ended up leaving him pretty aimless. However after moving to California in the late 80's he had started to find himself to a degree

He ended up becoming a manager for CBS television which made him privy to a tremendous amount of both political and entertainment gossip. Still seeing his son as an aimless child, Matt's father bought him a packard bell ( sic sic "Acer" not HP lol) computer in the hopes he could put it to work in business. His son instead starting sending out an email news letter that was part gossip and part conservative op-ed. Gradually as the internet began to greatly expand, particularly with the introduction of windows 95 which had web suffering as one of its core abilities, Matt's readership grew. In 1995 his newsletter was hitting 1000 email boxes a day. In February 1996 he was hitting nearly 40 thousand email boxes a day (and growing), and was in the process of transitioning his newsletter from an email passaround to an actual hosted website that his followers would be able to check for updates as needed.

He was hard at work, preparing for the upcoming election cycle on the Republican side to go against President Clinton. Senator's Robert Dole and Phil Gramm appeared to be the front runners, although one of Drudge's favorite politicians, governor Pete Wilson of California seemed to be mulling a run as well. Against this back drop he opened his compuserve email browser and found something in his inbox that caught his eye

It was from an non descript AOL account, but the writer claimed to be a staffer at the Pentagon, who had proof that President Clinton was having a sexual relationship with a White House intern. Drudge wasn't impressed, the Jennifer Flowers story had already been broken several years before, and there was all sorts of gossip of Clinton being a philanderer; there was nothing new here; but not wanting to turn off a reader, or better yet a source at the Pentagon, he thanked the emailer for contacting him, and advised them to follow up with whatever information they thought could turn into a story; and if necessary he was more than prepared to protect their confidentiality

Linda Tripp read Drudge's response and temporarily lost her nerve. She had been honestly shocked when Monica told her about the baby; and furious at the president for impregnating a 22 year old girl; in rage she had reached out to Matt Drudge first, but was also going to start leaking to the New York Times and the Washington Post, both of which she had contacts at; however Drudge responded to her email so quickly that it forced her to stop what she was doing (picking up the phone to the New York Times) and read his response. The precious seconds she spent reading Matt's request for the information, allowed her to calm down, and for the more rationale part of her brain to kick in. No I have a book deal, I need to wait, the papers will take all my thunder and sales away... this Drudge fellow is too small to break the story even if he does seem nice and "with the cause"

On reconsideration, Linda Tripp emailed Drudge back from her private AOL account that she would email him again with the details and proof (although not having the intention of doing so), for now she would keep the secret

Drudge saved the email in case the "pentagon staffer" wrote him again, but didn't expect much and went back to work moving his newsletter to the actual "web"

to be continued...

thoughts?

Three updates in one day because YOU deserve it (and that I have had this on the back burner for too long)

[Unknown]

This...is bad. Very, very bad.

I would love to see the effects of this in the 1996 election cycle (And I was a teenager in 1996.).

How far do you plan on taking this?

(Coming from a Clinton supporter, this will probably cost him the 1996 election. And refrain from a flamewar, please.)

[BlairWitch749]

This...is bad. Very, very bad.

I would love to see the effects of this in the 1996 election cycle (And I was a teenager in 1996.).

How far do you plan on taking this?

(Coming from a Clinton supporter, this will probably cost him the 1996 election. And refrain from a flamewar, please.)

I have it outlined to the election of 1996, anything beyond that I would generate based on feedback and board speculation

[historybuff]

Wow. If this gets out, it could cost Clinton his bid for re-election.

[Commissar]

Hmm, not only will Monica need Secret Service protection, it looks like she'll need to be moved from her apartment to a secure location...

[Commissar]

Wow. If this gets out, it could cost Clinton his bid for re-election.

Not really, as most people who would care didn't vote in the election anyway.

[BlairWitch749]

Hmm, not only will Monica need Secret Service protection, it looks like she'll need to be moved from her apartment to a secure location...

I was thinking about this based on your earlier comments...at first I was thinking of how president's children (if older) live in their own places and such, and just have a detail that follows them around to ensure safety... this however would be a really unique situation; paparazzi exist in 1996, and a Monica who was outed as carrying Clinton's baby would be stalked mercilessly for photographs and commentary, and its not inconsiderable that the secret service might find maintaining acceptable security at her apartment impossible and decide to move her

[NoOneFamous]

I never did like that sleazy Tripp. Can she "fall" down some stairs or something?

[BlairWitch749]

I never did like that sleazy Tripp. Can she "fall" down some stairs or something?

She is a very mixed character... if she didn't have the book deal in the wings; one could honestly call her a whistle blower (even with just the level of Clinton fooling around in OTL); but based on the money I'm not in love with her

She is a linchpin character for this tl; so nothing is going to happen to her for now; sorry

[BlairWitch749]

Giving in (Chapter 5) Mr. Clinton better watch out if he comes down here. He’d better have a bodyguard - Senator Jesse Helms

Washington DC February 4th 1996 (Approximately sic sic 6 weeks into Monica's pregnancy)

The day overwhelmed Monica Lewinsky, the emotion and drama where more than her fragile psyche could handle. It was compounded she went into the Oval Office, Bill was there alone. He was happy to see her, she could tell

Numbed by how hard she had cried all day she was able to put on an excellent poker face as she hugged and kissed the President of the United States. She noticed that change again in him, since they had escalated to sex, he seemed a bit more affectionate, and warmer to her, they made no small talk and eager to release the frustrations of their lives, again they made love, as usual, shame and nervousness kicked in almost immediately

Monica desperately wanted to tell him, but at the same time was so tremendously nervous and scared that the words couldn't come. She instead settled for telling Bill she cared about him whilst she composed herself and put her clothes back on. He responded back that he was sorry their time together always had to be so rushed and so secretive. With that Bill had to take an important phone call and Monica had to return to work; the secret remained for now..

Meanwhile at the US capitol building senate majority leader Robert (Bob) Dole of Kansas lay in a heap at the bottom of the steps leading from the building, he had slipped on a small puddle, and been unable to grab a railing due to his paralyzed arm and suffered a severe concussion, a busted lip, and a broken wrist in his good hand. He would end up needing to be hospitalized for 3 days before doctors felt him safe enough to go home. A number of visitors poured in Walter Reed hospital over the following days including speaker Gingrich and President Clinton. Something seemed to change in Dole's demeanor, if it was the scare of the fall, or a side effect of the concussion nobody ever knew, but despite his supposed front runner status for the upcoming primary season, he said "I can't even put my hand on a bible now" and turned down all suggestions of his running. His exploratory committee shut down, and media speculation moved on to other candidates....

to be continued...

thoughts?

[historybuff]

Ouch, poor Bob. Wonder who's gonna run against Clinton now.

[Commissar]

Ouch, poor Bob. Wonder who's gonna run against Clinton now.

Probably someone who doesn't speak of himself in the Third Person, Commissar doesn't like that :p

[BlairWitch749]

Probably someone who doesn't speak of himself in the Third Person, Commissar doesn't like that :p
:D bob dole doesn't need this would have been too obvious of a line

but he will not be the republican nominee for president in 1996

[RPW@Cy]

Ouch, poor Bob. Wonder who's gonna run against Clinton now.

OTL Pat Buchanan came second behind Dole in the primaries and Steve Forbes came third, nobody else came anywhere. Unless somebody stands who didn't OTL (Powell? Gingrich? One of the Bushes?) then it would be one of them I would have thought. Even a damaged Clinton would be able to beat either easily I would have thought, though a race against Buchanan would be more entertaining in a grim sort of way.

[ChucK Y]

OTL Pat Buchanan came second behind Dole in the primaries and Steve Forbes came third, nobody else came anywhere. Unless somebody stands who didn't OTL (Powell? Gingrich? One of the Bushes?) then it would be one of them I would have thought. Even a damaged Clinton would be able to beat either easily I would have thought, though a race against Buchanan would be more entertaining in a grim sort of way.

Establishment Republicans during this period had a habit of defering to the one among them whose "turn" it was. If Dole didn't run, they would turn to the one they considered "next in line" and give him about as much support.

[mrmandias]

Buchanan is not the GOP's candidate. Neither is Forbes.

I was out of the country that half decade, so I don't really know, but maybe someone like Pete Wilson. Or a 'draft Colin Powell' movement or even a 'draft Schwarzkopf' movement. None of these are all that exciting of a candidate, however.

From the OTL primaries, I can also see Lamar Alexander or Richard Lugar as real possibilities.

Wild possibility--Perot tries to refashion himself as a Republican.

McCain would actually be a fairly attractive candidate if it weren't for the proximity of the Keating scandal. Hmm. McCain '96 is *really* intriguing. Especially if he makes a serious run but his own history with his first wife knocks him out of the primaries just when Clinton is experiencing similar difficulties.

[pnyckqx]

She is a very mixed character... if she didn't have the book deal in the wings; one could honestly call her a whistle blower (even with just the level of Clinton fooling around in OTL); but based on the money I'm not in love with her

She is a linchpin character for this tl; so nothing is going to happen to her for now; sorrySorry, don't buy that. No book deal, no movie deal as of this date OTL.

i don't really have an opinion on Tripp one way or another. Still, without considering politics, i'm surprised at some of the ignorance of the political situation of the mid 90's shown by some posters.

i remember seeing a campaign sticker on a car bumper that stated "Bob Dole IS 96". No matter what one's political ideology happens to be, that statement pretty much summed up the 96 election.

If the people who the scandal would matter to didn't vote --a contention that is highly suspect--, it would be simply because neither candidate appealed to them. Dole was a Republican Establishment pick, and the Republican Establishment has a history of alienating the Conservative base of the party.

DISCLAIMER: i am NOT a Republican or a Democrat.

Generally speaking, i can't see Clinton getting into much difficulty with the pregnancy. At least not enough to take him out of the running against Dole (who has been removed at this point).

Where i can see trouble is the same place Nixon got into trouble, that would be trying to cover up the scandal. The one area where the Clinton administration is puzzling is in the lengths they went to in order to head off possible scandals. If anything they went too far on some cases where the incidents were perfectly within the President's perogatives, such as the White House Travel Office firings, where no explanation was required at all, as those people serve at the pleasure of the President.

This hyper-sensitivity of the Clinton Administration is what would cause trouble for the President. Unfortunately, a pregnant intern tends to nullify the "nuts & sluts" defense that Carville used most of the time. Anybody with half a brain realises that Monica didn't get pregnant by herself.

[Wildcard F. Kennedy]

Bob Dole has fallen, and Bob Dole can't get up.

This is a very interesting timeline. Somehow, I just can't see anything bringing Clinton down. They don't call him teflon Bill, or slick Willie for nothing. Unless he makes a horrible error, like pushes Monica down a flight of steps on camera, I can't see him going down for this.

The press and alot of the general public loved the guy. Only the GOP hated him. Even with Dole out of the way, and the scandal hanging over him, who can beat him? Powell maybe, but your really going to have a hard sell in even getting him to run.

Anyone in Clinton's own party with the gravitas and moxie to take him on? I can't think of any.

[BlairWitch749]

Bob Dole has fallen, and Bob Dole can't get up.

This is a very interesting timeline. Somehow, I just can't see anything bringing Clinton down. They don't call him teflon Bill, or slick Willie for nothing. Unless he makes a horrible error, like pushes Monica down a flight of steps on camera, I can't see him going down for this.

The press and alot of the general public loved the guy. Only the GOP hated him. Even with Dole out of the way, and the scandal hanging over him, who can beat him? Powell maybe, but your really going to have a hard sell in even getting him to run.

Anyone in Clinton's own party with the gravitas and moxie to take him on? I can't think of any.


Don't fall into the trap of viewing 1996 Clinton through 2000 or later glasses... despite the economic recovery, he didn't even get 50 percent of the vote in 1996

[BlairWitch749]

Runner up! (Chapter 6) - Success is a lousy teacher. It seduces smart people into thinking they can't lose. - Bill Gates

Baton Rouge Louisiana February 7th 1996


SENATOR PHIL GRAMM OF TEXAS CARRIES THE LOUISIANA CAUCUS! read the headline of all the local newspapers. It was a strange whirlwind, Dole had only fallen a couple of days before, but enough of his supporters jumped ship to fellow establishment candidate Phil Gramm to give him a solid victory over the upstart political commentator Patrick Buchanan.

Gramm had a massive war chest that he had been building for over 2 years, and outside of Dole himself, was one of the most established men running for the nomination. The god's seemed to be smiling on him, because not only had Dole fallen down (with a recovery that at best looked slow at that time) but Pete Wilson, the Republican governor of California had come down with throat cancer and was unable to speak; which in effect removed the two people who would have leached a lot of votes away from Gramm

Winning the Louisiana Caucus was huge, not in delagates, but in media coverage. Article after article, and one cable news commentator after the next started to claim Gramm was the new front runner; which put a tremendous amount of wind at his back

On February 12th, Gramm won the Iowa caucus, he could owe his victory both to Dole announcing he was out of the running, and his wife transferring staff and assets to Gramm AND friendly pundits talking up his campaign. Seeing Gramm gaining a lot of momentum put people out of the race, Alan Keyes, Richard Lugar, Arlen Specter and Harold Stassen dropped out of the race, with many of their backers and more importantly their doners going to Gramm

Gramm carried Delaware on February 24th which was thought to be a bedrock for businessman Steve Forbes. Following this defeat Forbes dropped out of the race and endorsed Gramm which allowed even more money to flow into his campaign coffers. On February 27th won North and South Dakota, and the Arizona primary, which would cement himself in the nomination. After a poor 3rd place showing in all three contests, former governor Lamar Alexander dropped out of the race and endorsed Gramm. Patrick Buchanan held on, claiming to be the bastion of conservatism in the race, but for all purposes it was over as Gramm's wave became unstoppable. When Gramm carried Wyoming and South Carolina (thought to be a possible pick up for Buchanan where he might be able to slow Gramm's momentum) it was all over.

By super Tudesday on March 5th the party had largely coalesced around Gramm and he picked up large numbers of delegates and began switching the orientation of his campaign to general election mode.

meanwhile, during these 4 weeks, Monica Lewinsky still had not told President Clinton that she was carrying his child; more than once she worked up the courage, however, she had not been able to see him alone during this time, and she had resolved that no matter what she would not have an abortion without telling him first. On super Tuesday her pregnancy stood at 10 weeks

to be continued...

thoughts?

[historybuff]

Phil Gram huh? Interesting choice, wonder who he'll pick as his running mate. I don't know mucha bout the guy.

[achilles483]

Is Ross Perot going to still be running in 1996? He took 8.4% of the popular vote in OTL, I wonder what he would get with Graham in the race.

[BlairWitch749]

Phil Gram huh? Interesting choice, wonder who he'll pick as his running mate. I don't know mucha bout the guy.

Phil was a strait up Reagan Republican (was a democrat many years before if we like that parallel;))

Nearly two decades younger than Dole, and a ruthless political operative

The POD isn't just Dole falling down and the nomination going to Gramm... but also the Republican nominee has had a MUCH clearer sail through the primary season. In OTL, Buchanan winning the Louisiana primary was critical to building up support for his candidacy AND killing Gramm's (even though Phil almost won the Iowa Caucus anyway) here with behind the scenes support from Dole's apparatus, Gramm carries Louisiana, short circuiting Buchanan, and with Dole gone by the Iowa Caucus, Gramm carries that too, cementing himself as front runner and taking the wind out of any serious challenger's sails

In OTL, Dole had to waste a ton of effort and money to beat Buchanan which left him in a poor position to take on Clinton in the general (on the top of the fact that he was not the most inspiring Republican ever picked for national office)

[thekingsguard]

This TL continues to intrigue... I can't wait to see how the public reacts!

[Koenig von Poposia]

This is getting good. Keep it coming!

[NoOneFamous]

I agree, keep it coming. I take it Monica is not got to get an abortion or miscarry?

[BlairWitch749]

Can you print that for me? (Chapter 7) I believe in a zone of privacy - Hillary Clinton

Washington DC March 31st 1996 (Approximately 14 weeks into Monica's pregnancy)

Monica couldn't put it off any longer, for the last 5 weeks, she had made appointments and then canceled them at the Office of Contemporary Women's Care. She was determined before she saw an ultra sound, or consulted with her doctor again that she would tell Bill; however, the situation for the two of them to be alone to discuss it refused to come up, and continued to look that way as the campaign season for Bill's reelection started to heat up. Her doctor called her personally and asked her to come in, saying they had to check on the pregnancy and make sure everything was OK and that she couldn't put off a checkup.

It was a strange balance Monica had come to strike... she could thank god it wasn't obvious she was pregnant yet (this was mostly because her stomach was so unsettled that she couldn't eat very much, which so far had kept her from gaining any weight), she was taking the pre-natal vitamins religiously and seemingly every day found herself shielding her belly from potential bumps, or staring at pregnant women or women with young children... whilst in the back of her mind still leaving abortion on the table.

She was shown into her exam room where the ultra sound machine and a monitor where set up for her. The technician came in and congratulated her after the exam nurse had taken her vitals and some fluid samples ... Monica strangely (so she thought) thanked the tech for her good wishes. The tech dimmed the lights, squirted the cool ultrasound gel on her belly and began tracing the ultrasound want to get a picture of the baby.

Monica was overcome when the 14 week old fetus came into view. She could see the reverberating outline of its heart within its chest as the tech focused the wand on it (the pressure and pain of the wand pressing on her belly being lost in the amazement of the images on the screen). The tech advised Monica that she would now hear the baby's heart beat as she pressed a button on the machine which isolated it, and a rapid thump thump thump filled the room. The tech recorded the rate whilst Monica started to cry. Is the rate normal she asked? The tech replied yes, and then for another 10 minutes focused on various parts of the baby in order to measure it's approximate size (the tech saying the baby was about the size of a lemon)... the tech programmed this information into a computer program and advised Monica that the machine estimated her due date at September 21st. Can you print me a picture of the baby Monica asked? The tech answered yes and pressed a button on the machine which started an inkjet printer in its bottom tray. When it was complete she pulled the page out and handed it to Monica and advised her that everything looked great, and that the doctor would be by to check on her in a few moments

Monica had been allowed to wear her street clothes during the ultrasound but had to change into the gown again for the doctor's exam. During the few minutes before her doctor came to see her, she stared deeply at the picture on the paper, you could make out the baby's head and hand pretty clearly... tear's rolled down her face, she was infatuated

Doctor: Hello Monica, I'm so glad you came in, how are you feeling
Monica: My stomach is better, I'm taking the vitamins like you said, I feel alright.
Doctor: Good, (the doctor reading the tech's notes) well everything looks solid, you and the baby are healthy
Monica: I was so scared for the first scan, its amazing how clear the picture is
Doctor: The first scan always amazes new mothers, so have we decided on a course dear?
Monica: (Staring deeply at the printed picture, the sound of the heartbeat etched and repeating in her mind) I... I want to keep the baby
Doctor: Good for you dear (She hugged Monica who was once again beset by tears)
Monica: It's so beautiful, I can't abort it
Doctor: That's fine Monica, I need to see you back in 6 weeks for another checkup... if you feel something is wrong or you need me sooner call right away, and you should sign up for the hospital's new mother's class, they have them the first Monday of every month, you'll get a lot of good tips there, and you'll probably make some friends for you and the baby

The doctor left and Monica dressed. She held the piece of paper with the picture of her baby tightly and looked at it again and again. She made her next appointment for May 15th and took a pamphlet to sign up for the parenting class and another pack of pre-natal vitamins. She went home before going to work for the day, she had two phone calls to make...

to be continued...

thoughts?

two updates in one day because YOU deserve it

[BlairWitch749]

I agree, keep it coming. I take it Monica is not got to get an abortion or miscarry?

That would be casting a really unique POD away... see my new chapter 7 and I think you have your answer :)

[historybuff]

Keep it coming. Say, what kind of TL's do you write? Maybe we could work on one together.

[BlairWitch749]

Keep it coming. Say, what kind of TL's do you write? Maybe we could work on one together.

BW collection as of November (http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=3819088&postcount=136)

[NoOneFamous]

Hilary will kill Bill and the Secret Service will kill her.

[BlairWitch749]

Hilary will kill Bill and the Secret Service will kill her.

This is a part of the TL that I haven't decided on yet (Hillary's reaction)... I think there is a broad distinction between standing by your husband through a series of trists (with political convenience and wanting to keep your family together for your daughter as factors) and being utterly publicly humiliated by your husband knocking up a 22 year old intern

[historybuff]

Wonder how Hillary's gonna react when she finds out. I couldn't get to your collection link BTW, but how about I PM you some TL ideas, and you let me know if you wanna work on some together with me.

[BlairWitch749]

Wonder how Hillary's gonna react when she finds out. I couldn't get to your collection link BTW, but how about I PM you some TL ideas, and you let me know if you wanna work on some together with me.

go for it....

[Chengar Qordath]

This is a part of the TL that I haven't decided on yet (Hillary's reaction)... I think there is a broad distinction between standing by your husband through a series of trists (with political convenience and wanting to keep your family together for your daughter as factors) and being utterly publicly humiliated by your husband knocking up a 22 year old intern

I would guess she would try to maintain a public facade of still standing by Bill, but wouldn't quite be able to pull it off convincingly, and rumors would probably leak out about her private rage.

[Georgepatton]

Oh, now this is interesting. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

[marcus_aurelius]

With no knowledge of Clinton's presidency (I need to make that clear lest I get net-lynched ;)), I personally believe Bill would be better off if he admits the whole thing after Monica told him about the baby. At least he won't be threatened woth impeachment... maybe Gore would run for president come election?

Marc A

P.S. Unless I miss my guess, the ultrasound scene was real-life experience for you, isn' it? :)

[BlairWitch749]

With no knowledge of Clinton's presidency (I need to make that clear lest I get net-lynched ;)), I personally believe Bill would be better off if he admits the whole thing after Monica told him about the baby. At least he won't be threatened woth impeachment... maybe Gore would run for president come election?

Marc A

P.S. Unless I miss my guess, the ultrasound scene was real-life experience for you, isn' it? :)

I have a lot of recent experience with ultra sounds :D

yes in this situation or otl bill would have been a lot better off just coming out and admitting it once it became public a la letterman... once you say you did it, the story stops escalating

[BlairWitch749]

Increasing the loop (Chapter 8) - Look for what gets your heart. Someone who excites you, turns you on. It's a quality of character. It's a kind of presentation. Sense of womanhood. Full woman. Confident. It's a woman who loves being a woman. Who wears her womanhood. Who knows how to flirt and have fun. Smart. Confident. Has a sense of self. Strong. And obviously sexy and saucy and challenging. - John Kerry (GQ magazine OTL)

Washington DC March 31st 1996 (Approximately 14 weeks into Monica's pregnancy)

Monica went home after her doctor's appointment and would get changed prior to going to work. She had a couple of phone calls to make

Monica: Hey Linda it's me
Linda: Hey hon, how did your appointment go, everything check out?
Monica: Yes the doctor said everything is healthy for me and the baby, I even got a picture
Linda: That's good to hear... so...
Monica: Linda, I am going to keep the baby
Linda: Really? What made you decide that?
Monica: It was so beautiful, I saw its hands moving, it's heart beat... I just... I have to keep the baby
Linda: OK OK... good for you sweetie, you are doing the right thing; if you need help or anything,.... you know I'm here for you
Monica: I know, thank you for being such a good friend for me through this, I have to go


Monica: Hey mom how are you?
Marcia Valinsky: I'm great dear, just working on a new article
Monica: I can't wait to hear about it
Marcia: Shouldn't you be at work? I imagine your office is quite busy now, especially with the election coming up
Monica: I had a doctor's appointment so I am going in late... listen are you around tonight I'd like to stop by and see you
Marcia: Yes I'm home tonight, is everything ok darling?
Monica: Yes I'm fine, I just want to see you tonight
Monica: If you are sure? No problem come and see me after 7

Monica composed herself, put the folded up picture of her baby into her purse and went to work. She checked in at her desk at the White House Office of Legislative Affairs and stared at the picture again... she couldn't let anything happen to the baby.

She was woken out of her revarie when a stack of papers came to her desk that required the president's signature. Lately, as things had become more hectic due to the starting election cycle, she had not gotten to be with Bill alone, she figured this would be much the case today; however she was stunned when she tracked him down in the hallway of the Oval Office study and found him to be alone

Bill was delighted to see her, and tossed her papers onto a desk and hugged her closely; he kissed her before she could say a word. She broke the kiss and looked deeply into his eyes... Bill I... I... I have something I want to talk you about...

Mr President... Mr President The voice of Leon Panetta reverberated down the hallway as the White House Chief of Staff was clearly searching for Bill. Bill kissed Monica again and took the papers into his hand before Panetta tracked them down.

Leon: Ah there you are, I have some new polling data in against Gramm, we need to sit down; oh hello Monica, how are you doing (Monica had been on Panetta's staff as an unpaid intern prior to transferring to her paid position in legislative affairs)?
Monica: I'm find sir, just need the President to sign a few of these drafts so they can go down to the hill (Clinton handed her the paperwork)
Bill: Thank you Miss Lewinsky, (Monica left, with Bill a little bit too obviously looking at her ass as she left)
Leon: (slapping Bill on the back) You better watch yourself Bill, you are too old for that kind of trouble, and besides we have enough on our plate


to be continued...

thoughts?

[historybuff]

Oh boy. That was close, hope Leon doesn't suspect anything.

[BlairWitch749]

Oh boy. That was close, hope Leon doesn't suspect anything.

A lot of people "suspected" Clinton and Lewinsky where having an affair...Panetta certainly might have in OTL based on actions that happened in April 96 which I will retell in a following update

[Commissar]

"Watches for the fireworks to begin"

[BlairWitch749]

Dark Secrets (Chapter 9) - “If these are baseless charges, it'll be OK. On the other hand, if there's something there, and it leads to him having to step out of office, it may be time to do some repair work and that may not have the consequences you would expect,” - Leon Panetta....... there are some great quotes from this period

The Watergate March 31st 1996 (14 Weeks into Monica's pregnancy)

Monica Lewinsky's mother owned a condo within the famous "Watergate" complex. That evening she stopped by to see her mother who was an accomplished writer

Marcia: Sit down dear, would you like a glass of wine?
Monica: I think you should sit down too, I'll pass on the wine
Marcia: allright, tell me what's going on, you seem so out of sorts
Monica: Mom, I don't know exactly how to tell you this; so I'll just go ahead and say it; I'm pregnant
Marcia: (jaw dropping with a gasp) good god sweetheart when did this happen, when are we due; tell me everything, I didn't even know you had taken a boyfriend....
Monica: It's a long story... I'm fine, the baby is fine, the baby is due September 21st. I found out a few weeks ago and was really scared, but I saw the baby on an ultrasound today and it all just... you know clicked for me (pulling the folded paper out of her purse)... here is your grandchild mom
Marcia: My god, this picture is remarkable, you can make out their little hand (Marcia started to cry)...
Monica: I heard it's heartbeat today, I'd like you to come to my next checkup
Marcia: Of course darling, of course...I need to meet your boyfriend as well, this is so sudden, I'm so surprised
Monica: Well that is the long part of the story...maybe you could use that glass of wine
Marcia: Oh god you've broken up? It was someone casual? It's ok honey just tell me
Monica: I...umm... the baby's father... the father is... President Clinton
Marcia: (Stunned silence)... I'm sorry darling; did you just say the father of your baby is the president?
Monica: (starting to cry) Yes mom (sniffiling)... he and I have been secretly seeing each other for like 6 months
Marcia: Oh my god... does he know? Does anyone know what kind of trouble you have gotten yourself into?
Monica: No, I've wanted to tell him, but I haven't really been alone with him since I found out, even my doctor doesn't know, the only people I have told are you and my best friend at work, that's it
Marcia: What a situation honey....and you want to keep the baby right?
Monica: Yes I really do
Marcia: Then I don't think you should tell him, having an out of wedlock baby with a 22 year old worker would be a hell of a scandal, he might be very unhappy or pressure you to have an abortion
Monica: Those thoughts have come into my mind mom, but I don't think it's fair not to tell him... I mean it's his child to
Marcia: But he can't be there for you darling, even if he wanted to be, he is not going to leave his wife while he is the sitting president of the United States, and it would ruin him to even acknowledge your child, I can't see anything good coming out of telling him; we must do everything possible to try to keep this a secret. You are going to start looking pregnant sooner or later, we will need to come up with a story about it so that it doesn't raise suspicions
Monica: (sniffling) I don't want to lie to all my friends and co-workers
Marcia: None of them know you and President Clinton have actually been seeing each other do they
Monica: No, well just my friend Linda, otherwise no; although I think the office gossip has been on to us for a little while
Marcia: well then you need to start telling people you have a boyfriend, so there are not so many questions when your belly starts popping out... tell them its a flame from California or the like, we need to keep a lid on this
Monica: Should we tell dad?
Marcia: Not yet baby, and we certainly shouldn't tell him the father is President Clinton; you know how he is, you'll have your picture on the front of the LA times if we tell him that. He needs the cover story too, tell him you have a boyfriend, this way the pregnancy won't totally blind side him
Monica: I feel so wrong lying to people... to dad...
Marcia: Think about it Monica, it's not going to do any good for the baby to have it announced as being a Clinton, not going to do the President any good either. The press would make such a big show out of everything; I mean look at what happened with the Simpson trial last year... a President having an out of wedlock baby... right before and election... no god it would be so terrible for you, and worse for your child darling, we have to keep this under wraps
Monica: I'm scared, it'll be hard for me to raise the baby by myself
Marcia: Your father and I will help you darling, we love you no matter what. Look your apartment is far too small for this, and you live by yourself; there isn't even space for a crib... why don't you and I go pack some things tomorrow and then over the weekend, we will get you situated here for a while, there is plenty of space for you and the baby, and I am home most of the time so I can help you take care of it
Monica: Thank you... thank you so much mom, you are a life saver, I've wanted to tell you from the first day... I was just so scared
Marcia: I know sweetheart, I'm happy you told me, even if this is going to be difficult its still a blessing, and I'm excited to be a grandmother


to be continued...

thoughts?

Two updates in one day because YOU deserve it:)

[Commissar]

"Mind tricks Linda Tripp into releasing the tapes"

;)

[BlairWitch749]

"Mind tricks Linda Tripp into releasing the tapes"

;)

Of course the tapes are going to become public... would waste the POD for the world not to find out :cool:

[LeoXiao]

Wow, poor Lewinsky. Especially since it can't end well.

[NoOneFamous]

When Tripp goes public Lewinski is going to sue her ass.

[Yelnoc]

Very well written. I feel sad for Lewinsky. From your updates, Bill seems like he might have been on the way towards building an actual relationship with her; will that play into how he handles the affair?

Please don't let the papparazi mob Lewinsky; it would be awful if she lost the baby to a pack of dimwits who all wanted better shots.

[Commissar]

Very well written. I feel sad for Lewinsky. From your updates, Bill seems like he might have been on the way towards building an actual relationship with her; will that play into how he handles the affair?

Please don't let the papparazi mob Lewinsky; it would be awful if she lost the baby to a pack of dimwits who all wanted better shots.

Once it becomes public, the Secret Service will move faster.

[lothaw]

Wow, this is very good. You feel for the human side of this story of a mother having a child. That alone can make or break a person even without the presidental label.

I also like how you have Phill Graham the frontrunner for the Republicans. I was wanting him to win back in 96. :)

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Amazing. I'm so voting this for Turtledove.

[BlairWitch749]

Wow, this is very good. You feel for the human side of this story of a mother having a child. That alone can make or break a person even without the presidental label.

I also like how you have Phill Graham the frontrunner for the Republicans. I was wanting him to win back in 96. :)

Indeed, having my own child 10 weeks ago made me much more sensative to this story and inspired me to take it from outline to tl

Phil would have been a much more formidable candidate than Dole I think, especially if he crushes Buchanan early so that he has a fast and clear path to the nomination

[pnyckqx]

Of course the tapes are going to become public... would waste the POD for the world not to find out :cool:That would depend on whether Tripp is still being asked by Lewinsky to commit perjury at the Paula Jones deposition.

At least it would remove that excuse if the deposition doesn't happen or Lewinsky doesn't want Tripp to lie on the stand.

Whether or not it violates wire tap laws is questionable. Since the calls crossed state lines (Maryland-DC) it can be argued that Federal, and not Maryland law applies --federal law requirements are less strict than those of Maryland--, and the state of Maryland has no jurisdiction in this matter.

One thing that this TL does --depending on how Lewinsky acts compared to how she acted OTL-- is create a lot of butterflies around Tripp.

[pnyckqx]

When Tripp goes public Lewinski is going to sue her ass.She can certainly try. If Lewinsky's actions follow OTL, she doesn't have the chance of a snow ball in hell in August at noon on a sunny day during a heat wave of winning.

Lewinsky's lack of credibility is one of the reasons that Maryland dropped wire tap charges against Tripp as well as immunity granted by the special prosecutor.

Civil court? With the notoriety that Lewinsky is about to get, 6-5 and pick em. Might be impossible to find an impartial jury.

[Georgepatton]

Her mom accepted the whole 'the President is my baby's father' thing kinda fast, didn't she?

[gridlocked]

Her mom accepted the whole 'the President is my baby's father' thing kinda fast, didn't she?

Well, w/the President the father, and Bill Clinton who will also become very rich after he leave office, Monica and the baby have a good chance for being set for life.

Still I don't know if Monica's Mom is flaky, greedy, or star-struck. I seriously doubt the Mom is a pro-lifer. A typical parent would want to crucify Bill. But unusual situations and Clinton's aura of (star) power might bring out odd reactions in people.

[Georgepatton]

Well, w/the President the father, and Bill Clinton who will also become very rich after he leave office, Monica and the baby have a good chance for being set for life.

Still I don't know if Monica's Mom is flaky, greedy, or star-struck. A typical parent would want to crucify Bill. But unusual situations and Clinton's aura of (star) power might bring out odd reactions in people.

I was speaking purely from a credulity perspective.

[gridlocked]

I was speaking purely from a credulity perspective.


Yeah she should have ask more on how did it happen and did you sleep with anyone else. But the audience for the TL already know the answers to those questions, so no going over old ground.

Monica was a White House Intern w/access to the Prez and Bill has a reputation. Unlike the typical 22 year old make an outrageous claim there was every reason to believe her.

[BlairWitch749]

Her mom accepted the whole 'the President is my baby's father' thing kinda fast, didn't she?

I tried to keep it simple so as not to retrace ground

in otl Monica's mom shielded her and took her in when the affair became public

also, the baby isn't a mega burden on her family, monica's mother and the family as a whole where quite rich. monica grew up in beverly hills, her father was one of the most accomplished cancer doctors in southern california ; and her mother was and is an accomplished writer... the reason Monica got the internship was because her parents where well connected

her mother had a condo in the watergate (high society money)... so a lot of the regular people type trouble most of us would have with a 22 year old daughter having an unwed pregnancy doesn't really apply

[Timmy811]

Obviously my cynical but serious judgement in this matter is an example of what I suppose you mean by "damage to the polity." I don't ever suppose any Republican proposal, program, claim, or intention is ever on the up-and-up; if it benefits a majority of Americans that's an accident. (And will be rectified shortly if they continue in power.:eek:)

This is an insane rubric to operate under, even deranged totalitarian lunatics like Hitler and Stalin believed their policies were the best for the German people, the proletariat, etc. For Democratic or Republican partisans to think that the politicians of the opposing party are chortling as they plot the demise of the American middle class and all that's good and holy is childish in the extreme.

[EWHM]

Most moms are VERY pro-life when it's their prospective grandchild that you're talking about---even if the child is conceived under dubious circumstances.

[BlairWitch749]

Well, w/the President the father, and Bill Clinton who will also become very rich after he leave office, Monica and the baby have a good chance for being set for life.

Still I don't know if Monica's Mom is flaky, greedy, or star-struck. I seriously doubt the Mom is a pro-lifer. A typical parent would want to crucify Bill. But unusual situations and Clinton's aura of (star) power might bring out odd reactions in people.

Monica's family wasn't hurting for money, but yes she would be able to draw considerable child support on clinton

Monica's mom is an accomplished writer and a wealthy woman... she shielded her daughter when the scandal became public...being furious with clinton, whilst probably in her heart, would be wasted effort, its not like she could go to the white house and put him into a shotgun wedding with monica... her only weapon is outing him, which would have horrendous effects on her daughter and grandchild, so there isn't much she could do other than support monica

[mrmandias]

Her mom accepted the whole 'the President is my baby's father' thing kinda fast, didn't she?

The President was Clinton, remember? He had something of a reputation.

[mrmandias]

This TL is making me even less sympathetic to Tripp (assuming she goes public as in OTL). Yikes, the writing is good.

[Orville_third]

I have to bring up two things in advance:
1. Will Desert Fox still go on as planned?
2. Will anyone remember Hussein Kamil's CNN interview?

[BlairWitch749]

I have to bring up two things in advance:
1. Will Desert Fox still go on as planned?
2. Will anyone remember Hussein Kamil's CNN interview?

question 1 is beyond the scope of the tl (which ends in November 96)

I am not familiar with question 2

[historybuff]

Did you get my message on a Phil Gramm becoming President TL idea?

[BlairWitch749]

Did you get my message on a Phil Gramm becoming President TL idea?

I'd like to withhold some thoughts there as they might come up in this work

[historybuff]

Darn! Still sounds like a good idea for a TL though.

[BlairWitch749]

The transfers (Chapter 9) The first tenet is that you should report corruption regardless of loyalty to incumbent or party. - Linda Tripp
Washington DC April 11th 1996 (Approximately 16 weeks into Monica's pregnancy)

Monica Lewinsky sat at her desk, reviewing bills which President Clinton had commented on which she would forward to democratic leadership on capital hill. Her supervisor called her into his office. The news was good he said, Monica was being transferred to the Pentagon's public affair unit; where she would have higher pay and better benefits and there was going to be a little party for her.

A wave of relief and paranoia hit Monica all at once. On one hand, getting away from the white house and potentially seeing Bill would be good since she and her mother had come to the conclusion that they should not tell him about the baby; especially since it was starting to get a bit more obvious that she had a bump in her belly (although thick, ill fitting winter clothing had kept her coworkers at the white house from discovering this so far) the paranoia was unavoidable, had Bill or someone in the administration found out? Did they want to get rid of her... did Bill find out about the baby and not want to see her anymore.

It was all a big unknown for Monica as she packed her things and picked up all the necessary paperwork to start at the Pentagon's public affairs unit.

When she showed up for work at her new position, there was one benefit, (or so she thought) her desk was assigned directly adjacent to her friend Linda Tripp. Tripp had specifically requested this when she heard Monica was being assigned to the department, telling her supervisor, that the two had met previously, and that she would love to help Monica get settled in her new position. Tripp also took the extraordinary (and risky) step of bugging the telephone on Monica's desk in the hopes of gaining more evidence of the affair and padding her potential subject matter for a book

Tripp had been doing things she could have never saw her self doing before. When her co-worker had turned her on to the drudge report, she became hooked on Matt Drudge's message, style and content. She had continued to email him secretly from home. She never revealed the story about Monica, however she gave Matt Drudge advance notice of pentagon stories...she convinced herself this was not wrong since she was merely giving him information which would go to the media later anyway, and not any secret information (although Linda Tripp had top secret level clearance going back to her days as an administrator for Delta Force and certainly could have)... Tripp's "gifts" to Matt Drudge had already allowed him to beat the television news services and the newspapers on the capture to the Unibomber Ted Kacznyski, the news of Commerce Secretary Ron Brown's death in an air crash and today Israel's new massive assault on Lebanon (operation grapes of wrath)

These three breaks started to establish the Drudge Report as the go to site for absolute up to the minute reporting and brought its readership to over 200,000 hits a day and growing. Tripp did have a larger motivation at work other than liking Matt Drudge and his work...

to be continued...

thoughts?

[NoOneFamous]

Bugging government phones will land her in jail (or at the very least the unemployment line)

[BlairWitch749]

Bugging government phones will land her in jail (or at the very least the unemployment line)

Who says Linda Tripp can't make an immunity deal ;)

[Commissar]

Who says Linda Tripp can't make an immunity deal ;)

With a special counsel so willing to help out in that regards ;)

[historybuff]

Man, this reads like a book.

The story's gonna get out eventually.

[Tyg]

I wonder if Monica's transfer was arranged by someone in the White House who noticed that she and the President have been getting a little too close.

But just a little too late.

[BlairWitch749]

I wonder if Monica's transfer was arranged by someone in the White House who noticed that she and the President have been getting a little too close.

But just a little too late.

The transfer happened in april 1996 in otl for exactly that reason:)

[Tyg]

The transfer happened in april 1996 in otl for exactly that reason:)

Huh. I did not know that.

Like OTL, the only one who seems likely to survive all this smelling like roses is Matt Drudge.

[historybuff]

Interesting that some of this actually happened OTL.

[BlairWitch749]

Interesting that some of this actually happened OTL.

The transfer of Lewinsky by her superiors (probably ordered by Panetta) to the pentagon public affairs dept did historically happen in April 1996; and the consensus is that this was done because Panetta (and or a couple of others in Clinton's inner circle) thought she and Clinton had an in appropriate relationship and they wanted to head it off before it became a bigger problem (how this didn't end up as part of the impeachment hearings was very strange because it looked really bad... like abuse of power and corruption bad)

The POD's so far are

Monica getting pregnant (duh) and the tangent of telling her mother and linda tripp, but not telling president clinton

Linda Tripp getting herself involved as a source for the drudge report, boosting it's readership and viability as a media outlet

Bob Dole getting injured and getting out of the presidential race, paving the way for a Phil Gramm victory which smothers Buchanan early

Everything else is OTL to date

[Stamps1962]

Completely different political culture and society, you're comparing apples and oranges. Adulterous presidents in the 20th century include Wilson (pre-presidency), Harding (pre-presidency), FDR (who had the closest thing to a formal mistress), JFK, LBJ and Clinton. The last president to have an illegitimate child was Grover Cleveland in the 1880s, but it was born pre-presidency and he paid child support, taking public responsibility.

I read someplace that JFK supposedly fathered a child with a campaign volunteer in his first congressional race in 1946. The baby was placed for adoption. He supposedly also got a young girl pregnant while in the White House, that ended in abortion.
No, I can't site sources on this, its pretty meaningless anyway at this point in time.

[BlairWitch749]

The Junkyard Dog (Chapter 10) -But the good news is Bill Clinton is not going to be president next year - Phil Gramm

Washington DC and San Diego California August 15th 1996 approximately 6 weeks before Monica's due date

Bill Clinton's administration watched the Republican convention in San Diego with great interest in the white house. Senator Phil Gramm of Texas had done an excellent job unifying the party, and his energy, personality and political savior faire where racheting the republicans up to make themselves a serious threat in November.

Matt Drudge had been busy as well, Linda Tripp had tipped him off on the crash of flight TWA 800, the Khobar towers bombing and had given him some early and sensitive information on the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta. These continued gifts had built up the Drudge Report over the summer and he was now getting 600,000 hits a day. Some of Drudge's other sources tipped him off ahead of the papers that Phil Gramm's running mate was going to be Senator Spencer Abraham from Michigan. That day in early August saw Drudge's site crack 1 million hits for the first time in a 24 hour period.

Spencer Abraham was an inspired choice, as part of the "Republican Revolution" class of 1994, he was young (44) well spoken (law degree from Harvard where he was a standout student) and had an aggressive grasp of policy. He was of Lebanese descent and marked a real first in having an obvious "non-white" on a major ticket in a presidential race.

He was introduced at the convention by the Governor of New York George Pataki, who was glowing in describing his comrade's accomplishments, vitality and spirit he would bring to the job. Abraham gave a booming speech that shook the Clinton administration... talking about his roots, his experience, and his vision for America; he proclaimed that he was the vision of the American dream, who had advanced past race and prejudice and lived well. His young children where extremely photogenic and he quickly became something of an instant celebrity as the papers and news outlets swarmed to get their first national interviews with the senator

Gramm was introduced by his fellow Texan Governor George W Bush who described him as "tough as a junkyard dog". Gramm repeated the line... was silent for a moment and told the roused audience that whilst he was tough in the political arena, that he was touched deeply in his heart by the party's trust in him, Spencer, and their families. He promised to continue the work started the year before of bringing the budget into line, he promised to pay off the national debt, and then establish a new lower tax structure to lead america into a golden age in the next century. His southern energy played well to the cameras and the golden age for the new century stuck as a campaign slogan very well.

to be continued...

thoughts?

the '96 republican ticket

http://www.ifsna.com/marketing/newsletters/prospect/2008/January/images/Spencer%20Abraham.jpg
For Vice President Spencer Abraham Senator from Michigan

http://georgiainfo.galileo.usg.edu/tdgh-jul/Phil%20Gramm%202.jpg
For President Phil Gramm Senator from Texas

[historybuff]

Clinton's gotta get a lot of work done if he wants to beat Gramm. Never heard of this Abraham guy before.

[Tyg]

Clinton's gotta get a lot of work done if he wants to beat Gramm. Never heard of this Abraham guy before.

Abraham is an interesting guy, and an interesting choice, actually.

He was Qualye's deputy Chief of Staff, and chairman of the NRCC, and being the former chairman of the Republican party and then Senator from Michigan threatens to have the Midwest states leaning a bit more Republican in the election.

So he's got a bit of the insider-brawler thing going, but he's also unusually favorable to stuff like immigration reforms and liberalization. Even with that though, one of the founders of the Federalist Society isn't going to be criticized in the mid-90s for being insufficiently conservative by his own party, or insufficiently aware of the issues.

What's more interesting about this, given the selection, is the political impact of the Republicans winning in 1996 with Gramm. That really throws the Democratic party into a mess, as the only Democratic presidents in recent memory would be Carter and Clinton... Both one-termers, the latter of which lost Congress, and badly so.

This also induces intercene battles as to the direction of the Democrats--Should they be neoliberal compromisers like Clinton post-1994 elections, embrace Nader-ite Green Party ideas, or something else?

It's going to be a tough term or two for them to work that out, because if Clinton loses, it's going to be as if the 1994 Republican takeover of the House was not simply vindicated, but the momentum carried on. Republicans are going to think that the last series of elections shows that they have a natural majority, and that they're (relatively) free to push on their issues with public support. That might even be true until the Democrats get organized again.

Fascinating potential impacts here!

[historybuff]

If Clinton loses, that'll make things pretty interesting. Wonder who Gramm's gonna pick for his cabinet if he wins.

[Tyg]

If Clinton loses, that'll make things pretty interesting. Wonder who Gramm's gonna pick for his cabinet if he wins.

I don't know enough to say who's likely, but it'd be interesting to see Colin Powell and John McCain in there, though the latter isn't as probable.

[BlairWitch749]

I don't know enough to say who's likely, but it'd be interesting to see Colin Powell and John McCain in there, though the latter isn't as probable.

McCain and Gramm where extremely close friends... not crazy (if McCain is interested) to see him as secdef or sec of state

[RogueBeaver]

BW: remember that McCain in 1996 is not the McCain of the past decade politically. He had escaped disgrace by the skin of his teeth as a member of the Keating Five and it would inevitably be raised in a confirmation hearing.

[BlairWitch749]

BW: remember that McCain in 1996 is not the McCain of the past decade politically. He had escaped disgrace by the skin of his teeth as a member of the Keating Five and it would inevitably be raised in a confirmation hearing.

The 105th congress had 55 republican senators in otl (without any down ticket effects of Gramm doing better than Dole or Clinton's problems keeping some democrats home)... and this was well before the fillibuster became any everyday weapon... he might get some ball busting in a confirmation hearing, but certainly not any amount that would make his confirmation shaky or have it looking for votes (McCain had a lot of friends on both sides of the aisle after all)

[Tyg]

The 105th congress had 55 republican senators in otl (without any down ticket effects of Gramm doing better than Dole or Clinton's problems keeping some democrats home)... and this was well before the fillibuster became any everyday weapon... he might get some ball busting in a confirmation hearing, but certainly not any amount that would make his confirmation shaky or have it looking for votes (McCain had a lot of friends on both sides of the aisle after all)

I had totally forgotten that the Republicans held the Senate!

Good lord, if Clinton loses badly the Democrats--at best--will be struggling to filibuster big reforms to taxes, medicaid, elimination of the Dept. of Energy (proposed by Sen. Abraham OTL) and so on. And all the while the internet boom will be a big tailwind to Republican incumbents.

That could mean an attempt to reinforce the "Contract with America", or attempt to replicate it in terms of policy issues, especially with Gramm and Abraham at the top of the ballot this year.

Washington DC will become the Hotel California: It could be heaven or it could be hell.

Your mileage may vary.

[pnyckqx]

The Junkyard Dog (Chapter 10) -But the good news is Bill Clinton is not going to be president next year - Phil Gramm

Washington DC and San Diego California August 15th 1996 approximately 6 weeks before Monica's due date

Bill Clinton's administration watched the Republican convention in San Diego with great interest in the white house. Senator Phil Gramm of Texas had done an excellent job unifying the party, and his energy, personality and political savior faire where racheting the republicans up to make themselves a serious threat in November.

Matt Drudge had been busy as well, Linda Tripp had tipped him off on the crash of flight TWA 800, the Khobar towers bombing and had given him some early and sensitive information on the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta. These continued gifts had built up the Drudge Report over the summer and he was now getting 600,000 hits a day. Some of Drudge's other sources tipped him off ahead of the papers that Phil Gramm's running mate was going to be Senator Spencer Abraham from Michigan. That day in early August saw Drudge's site crack 1 million hits for the first time in a 24 hour period.

Spencer Abraham was an inspired choice, as part of the "Republican Revolution" class of 1994, he was young (44) well spoken (law degree from Harvard where he was a standout student) and had an aggressive grasp of policy. He was of Lebanese descent and marked a real first in having an obvious "non-white" on a major ticket in a presidential race.

He was introduced at the convention by the Governor of New York George Pataki, who was glowing in describing his comrade's accomplishments, vitality and spirit he would bring to the job. Abraham gave a booming speech that shook the Clinton administration... talking about his roots, his experience, and his vision for America; he proclaimed that he was the vision of the American dream, who had advanced past race and prejudice and lived well. His young children where extremely photogenic and he quickly became something of an instant celebrity as the papers and news outlets swarmed to get their first national interviews with the senator

Gramm was introduced by his fellow Texan Governor George W Bush who described him as "tough as a junkyard dog". Gramm repeated the line... was silent for a moment and told the roused audience that whilst he was tough in the political arena, that he was touched deeply in his heart by the party's trust in him, Spencer, and their families. He promised to continue the work started the year before of bringing the budget into line, he promised to pay off the national debt, and then establish a new lower tax structure to lead america into a golden age in the next century. His southern energy played well to the cameras and the golden age for the new century stuck as a campaign slogan very well.

to be continued...

thoughts?

the '96 republican ticket

http://www.ifsna.com/marketing/newsletters/prospect/2008/January/images/Spencer%20Abraham.jpg
For Vice President Spencer Abraham Senator from Michigan

http://georgiainfo.galileo.usg.edu/tdgh-jul/Phil%20Gramm%202.jpg
For President Phil Gramm Senator from TexasLOL, i have just awakened from an extended 'senior moment'. Thought the Republican nominee ITTL was Lindsey Graham! Should have known better. Lindsey Graham was a freshman congressman nobody in 96.

i had completely forgotten about Phil Gramm, and didn't even notice the different spelling of the last name.

[BlairWitch749]

I had totally forgotten that the Republicans held the Senate!

Good lord, if Clinton loses badly the Democrats--at best--will be struggling to filibuster big reforms to taxes, medicaid, elimination of the Dept. of Energy (proposed by Sen. Abraham OTL) and so on. And all the while the internet boom will be a big tailwind to Republican incumbents.

That could mean an attempt to reinforce the "Contract with America", or attempt to replicate it in terms of policy issues, especially with Gramm and Abraham at the top of the ballot this year.

Washington DC will become the Hotel California: It could be heaven or it could be hell.

Your mileage may vary.


indeed there where a few close senate races in 96 which despite clinton's victory where very tight (MT and GA especially but there where others)the republicans can easily get to fillibuster proof and have two year to run free with their agenda

[Tyg]

indeed there where a few close senate races in 96 which despite clinton's victory where very tight (MT and GA especially but there where others)the republicans can easily get to fillibuster proof and have two year to run free with their agenda

I just was checking out the Senate results for 1996. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_1996) About a 5-point swing in votes would give the GOP 60 Senators, and full control of both houses of Congress, with no filibuster possible with any party discipline.

States and the vote margin for the Democratic candidate:
Louisiana: 0.2%
Georgia: 1.4%
South Dakota: 2.6%
Montana: 4.8%
Iowa: 5.1%
Massachusetts: 7.5%

I may have missed one or two others, but these seem like the closest races likely to flip the other way in a Clinton defeat.

Clinton didn't win a popular majority in OTL, but was quite close at 49%. For him to lose, enough changed votes down-ticket could easily cause massive ripples in state and local races that reverberate to this day.

[Evan]

I just read through this TL... Your dialog sounds somewhat awkward (especially between Monica and her mother), but your narrative is good. Keep it up!

Is there some way you can justify Dole's injury otherwise than by butterflies? Maybe someone inadvertently distracted him?

And if the Republicans do win the election, I'll be looking forward to seeing what happens. iOTL, I recall the Contract with America went nowhere; I hope things move differently iTTL.

[BlairWitch749]

I just read through this TL... Your dialog sounds somewhat awkward (especially between Monica and her mother), but your narrative is good. Keep it up!

Is there some way you can justify Dole's injury otherwise than by butterflies? Maybe someone inadvertently distracted him?

And if the Republicans do win the election, I'll be looking forward to seeing what happens. iOTL, I recall the Contract with America went nowhere; I hope things move differently iTTL.

Dole did have a really nasty fall historically during the campaign in otl... I just moved it up some and had it on concrete instead of, off the back of a stage

[Wendell]

Will there be any effect on broader American political dynamics by having an Arab-American Republican VP nominee?

[LtNOWIS]

It seems like Lebanese Americans are seen as basically white. Ethnicity wasn't really an issue for Spencer Abraham and John Sununu. Abraham might be asked about his thoughts on Israel/Lebanon relations and so forth, but it won't be a big deal overall.

[BlairWitch749]

It seems like Lebanese Americans are seen as basically white. Ethnicity wasn't really an issue for Spencer Abraham and John Sununu. Abraham might be asked about his thoughts on Israel/Lebanon relations and so forth, but it won't be a big deal overall.

plus abraham is catholic and 9/11 is 5 years away... it only changes the dynamic in that a non white person has made it to a national ticket (and a republican no less)

its not like Bin Laden or any of his associated douchebags would stop thinking the US was the great Satan because they elected a Lebanese Catholic to be vice president

[pnyckqx]

Will there be any effect on broader American political dynamics by having an Arab-American Republican VP nominee?One would assume that it would be no different than having an Arab-American as USCENTCOM as actually did happen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Abizaid)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Abizaid)

[Janprimus]

If Clinton loses, that'll make things pretty interesting. Wonder who Gramm's gonna pick for his cabinet if he wins.

Gramm doesn't seem to be the ideal candidate or at least as an European he doesn't seem to be, although actually hear and/or see him speech/ address an audience could change that. OTOH quite a few American voters don't appreciate an adulterous president, probably even when they actually are adulterers themselves;).

One question though couldn't the democrats nominate a new candidate, although that would mean abandoning their own president, which in politics always will cost you votes (but maybe doing this to an unpopular president could also win back some votes).

Anyway when I again compare Mitterrand to Clinton, I only want to say, that at the end of the day it are the policies that matter, regarding the adultery you're not voting for a pope;).

[Wendell]

One would assume that it would be no different than having an Arab-American as USCENTCOM as actually did happen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Abizaid)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Abizaid)

VP is more prominent in the public consciousness than CENTCOM Commander, partularly if the latter is doing his job well.

[BlairWitch749]

Gramm doesn't seem to be the ideal candidate or at least as an European he doesn't seem to be, although actually hear and/or see him speech/ address an audience could change that. OTOH quite a few American voters don't appreciate an adulterous president, probably even when they actually are adulterers themselves;).

One question though couldn't the democrats nominate a new candidate, although that would mean abandoning their own president, which in politics always will cost you votes (but maybe doing this to an unpopular president could also win back some votes).

Anyway when I again compare Mitterrand to Clinton, I only want to say, that at the end of the day it are the policies that matter, regarding the adultery you're not voting for a pope;).

Well traditionally, the US elects governors; however Gramm, out of the field (pete wilson excluded since he had cancer and couldn't speak) does have the necessary credit in the republican party to win a nomination (reaganite, conservative, experienced, establishmentarian)... texas politics is a difficult and nasty game... if you can survive there, you can win a national election (LBJ and W where both very effective at governing and passing their agenda)

if the scandal broke early enough, then yes they could dump clinton... however if its after the convention (and in this POD its going to come out very late) it would be impossible to dump him in time

[historybuff]

What's up with the TL?

[Chengar Qordath]

if the scandal broke early enough, then yes they could dump clinton... however if its after the convention (and in this POD its going to come out very late) it would be impossible to dump him in time

Not to mention that dumping an incumbent is an incredibly risky move, since a lot of voters would see it as more-or-less admitting that the last 4 years of the party's leadership have been an utter disaster.

[jmill]

I just was checking out the Senate results for 1996. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_elections,_1996) About a 5-point swing in votes would give the GOP 60 Senators, and full control of both houses of Congress, with no filibuster possible with any party discipline.

States and the vote margin for the Democratic candidate:
Louisiana: 0.2%
Georgia: 1.4%
South Dakota: 2.6%
Montana: 4.8%
Iowa: 5.1%
Massachusetts: 7.5%

I may have missed one or two others, but these seem like the closest races likely to flip the other way in a Clinton defeat.

Clinton didn't win a popular majority in OTL, but was quite close at 49%. For him to lose, enough changed votes down-ticket could easily cause massive ripples in state and local races that reverberate to this day.
Could you make it a 10 point swing? I don't like John Kerry.

[Antipater]

Could you make it a 10 point swing? I don't like John Kerry.

Hah! Losing Kerry in 1996 would make my day as a rare Massachusetts Republican. Dreaming big, after Weld wins his third(!) term in 2008 and Edward Kennedy finally kicks the bucket in 2009 we can have two GOP Senators for the Bay State for the first time since the days of Henry Cabot Lodge Jr!

[usertron2020]

If the Republicans do win the election...

Based on both the thread title and the author's enthusiasm for Phil Gramm, I think you can consider that a done deal.:)


IOTL, I recall the Contract with America went nowhere; I hope things move differently ITTL.

My impression was they got a lot passed, and it was only when they overreached in the government shutdown that things went south for the GOP.:confused:

[Ariosto]

Hah! Losing Kerry in 1996 would make my day as a rare Massachusetts Republican. Dreaming big, after Weld wins his third(!) term in 2008 and Edward Kennedy finally kicks the bucket in 2009 we can have two GOP Senators for the Bay State for the first time since the days of Henry Cabot Lodge Jr!

Your not the only one. :D

[adam888]

The author's enthusiasm for the GOP makes you wonder what type of shape economically this country would be for Bill Clinton in OTL left us with a surplus.

Be careful what you wish for an earlier round of tax cuts for the top 1% of the public, attacks on social security and more deregulation might lead us to the second GOP great depression and lead us to Hillary Clinton winning the Presidency in 2004.

[BlairWitch749]

The author's enthusiasm for the GOP makes you wonder what type of shape economically this country would be for Bill Clinton in OTL left us with a surplus.

Be careful what you wish for an earlier round of tax cuts for the top 1% of the public, attacks on social security and more deregulation might lead us to the second GOP great depression and lead us to Hillary Clinton winning the Presidency in 2004.

there are tremendous economic tail winds in the 97-00 period... it can compensate for a lot of different economic experiments

[pnyckqx]

The author's enthusiasm for the GOP makes you wonder what type of shape economically this country would be for Bill Clinton in OTL left us with a surplus.You mean the one that the Republican Congress produced?

Be careful what you wish for an earlier round of tax cuts for the top 1% of the public, attacks on social security and more deregulation might lead us to the second GOP great depression and lead us to Hillary Clinton winning the Presidency in 2004.That'd be the same 1% that pays about 40% of all the taxes collected, right? Sounds like they could use the break.

This is a fun game, more than one can play. BTW, i am NOT a Republican or a Democrat, but can still salute the genius of Bill Clinton, who could govern from either the right or the left as he did not have an ideology except power for the sake of power.

[usertron2020]

You mean the one that the Republican Congress produced?

That'd be the same 1% that pays about 40% of all the taxes collected, right? Sounds like they could use the break.

This is a fun game, more than one can play. BTW, I am NOT a Republican or a Democrat, but I can still salute the genius of Bill Clinton, who could govern from either the right or the left* (*-what, no center?:rolleyes:) as he did not have an ideology except power for the sake of power.


You can be neither a Democrat nor a Republican and still have an axe to grind.:)

[pnyckqx]

You can be neither a Democrat nor a Republican and still have an axe to grind.:)No axe. Always preferred guns for that sort of work. Safer that way.

Plenty of people recognised that Clinton had no real ideology. Even Jesse Jackson remarked on this when he called Clinton an "appetite in a suit."

i can admire the ability even if i despise the man. Whatever his faults, Clinton's exercise of power was the best a US President has used since Eisenhower or Reagan.

He was proof of Mary Chapin Carpenter's lyrics "So cut the deck right in half, i'll play from either side".*

*I take my chances from the album "Come on, Come on"

[pnyckqx]

You can be neither a Democrat nor a Republican and still have an axe to grind.:)BTW, i noticed you didn't jump on the comments i was responding to.

[Hendryk]

The author's enthusiasm for the GOP makes you wonder what type of shape economically this country would be for Bill Clinton in OTL left us with a surplus.
More generally, the author's enthusiasm for the GOP makes you wonder how much ideological wish fulfilment one can inject into an ATL before it stops being AH and becomes an author tract. It's a recurring issue with some post-1900 and FH stuff, inevitably so as recent history has a political component, but in this case it really pushes the envelope.

[BlairWitch749]

The final background (Chapter 11) - Those who know me know I won't hesitate to turn around and point someone out - Jim Lehrer

Washington DC September 12th 1996, (9 days before Monica's due date)


President Clinton and his chief of staff Leon Panetta sat in the oval office, pouring over poll numbers and also preparing Clinton's talking points for his upcoming debates with Senator Phil Gramm.

The data wasn't that bad considering that the debates where still in the pipeline and that Gramm's bounce from the convention had started to wear off some. The latest wall street journal poll had shown Clinton 40, Gramm 38 and Perot 4 with 18 percent undecided and a 2.2% margin of error. President Clinton felt that with the economic tail winds he was enjoying and his intention to start identifying Gramm as a pawn of Newt Gingrich in his next round of appearances that he should win comfortably.

Clinton's personal secretary came in with two small plates with a bit of cake on each and two plastic forks, handing one each to Clinton and Panetta. The President asked whose birthday it was after thanking her?

Oh, some of the girls where throwing a surprise baby shower for Monica Lewinsky, she is due like next week and tomorrow is her last day of work

(Panetta) Oh Monica is having a baby? I didn't know that, (eating a piece of the cake) this is really good, good for her, I'll have to stop by and congratulate her...

(Bill neverously) I didn't know Ms. Lewinsky was having a baby either...

(secretary) I don't think she knew while she was still here... she got transferred to the pentagon public affairs department a while ago; I think her boyfriend is still living in California or something like that; I haven't really spoken to her much since she left... looks great though, well I'll see you later if you don't need anything else Mr President


several hours later the phone on Monica's desk at the pentagon rang

Hello public affairs, Monica speaking
Hello Monica...(in his charming southern drawl)
Bill?.... Hi how are you?...
I'm fine Monica... listen, I heard you had a little party today
Ummm...
You didn't tell me you where having a baby?
I never got the chance, I got transferred away before I knew
And your boyfriend is still in California huh?
He's and old friend from high school and hasn't found a job here so yea...
You know I don't believe you
...
I know for damn sure it's mine
Bill...
no don't lie to me... I can't understand why you would do this to me
I umm....
Who have you told? Does anyone know?
(crying) just my mom Bill... she told me... she told me not to tell you or anyone, she didn't want the baby to be in the papers
did you tell anyone else?
only one other person in the whole world... my friend linda tripp here at the pentagon, I needed someone to confide in, I was so scared, but she hasn't told anyone
You told Linda FUCKING Tripp about us? You Told Linda Fucking Tripp about the baby? What the hell where you thinking?... Do you know who the fuck Linda Fucking trip is... she is the one who leaked the affair Bush was having, we got rid of her and sent her to the damn pentagon because she ran the fucking rumor mill here; you might as well have told the god damn new york times.... (anger and rage in his voice)
I didn't know that Bill.... don't be mad, she hasn't told anybody I swear, she is my friend, she doesn't want to hurt me or the baby
She is a scumbag and is going to destroy both of us and the baby... I can't believe you did that.... I have to go (phone clicks off)



Linda trip pushed the stop button on her tape player, her hand trembling both in rage and shock at the unbelievable power she now held in her hands...slowly she logged onto her computer and began to craft an email...

to be continued...

thoughts?

[Ariosto]

Interesting. I don't see much hope for Clinton in the race.

[BlairWitch749]

Could you make it a 10 point swing? I don't like John Kerry.

That election is interesting... there are a LOT of catholics in MA... I wonder how kindly they would look on an out of wedlock baby?

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Again a good update.

[historybuff]

Wow, now she's got something to send to someone in the Republican camp.

[Wildcard F. Kennedy]

Clinton is done. Stick a fork in him. I kind of figured from the title of the TL but man, he is cooked once that tape gets out.

The only way the dems can even hope to salvage this one is if Clinton resigns and Gore runs. Even then, it's no sure bet.

[BlairWitch749]

Its a... (Chapter 12) “I begged her to get another job. I begged her to date other people and start a different life. But there was no way and nothing I could have done at that time and no one I could have said this to, because it would have been unbelievable.” - Marcia Lewinsky

Washington DC September 18th 1996 (3 days before Monica's due date)

Monica Lewinsky lay in her mother's bed crying, the pain was unbearable. Earlier in the day, she had been to the hospital for a final checkup prior to her due date. The ultra sound looked great her doctor told her, the baby was estimated to be around 8 pounds and was properly positioned for delivery. The physical exam however had left Monica feeling very sore and uncomfortable.

By the time her mother got her home, Monica realized something was different...a trip to the bathroom revealed she had lost her mucus plug, and she began to have contractions spaced about 20 minutes apart lasting for 10 to 15 seconds. Monica and her mother immediately called her doctor, who advised that losing the plug didn't necessarily mean labor was imminent (Monica had had a scare 5 weeks before that turned out to only be dehydration and braxton hicks contractions (false contractions where the uterus exercises itself in order to prepare for later delivery)... the doctor advised for Monica to try to rest as much as possible, and that that once the contractions got to be 5 minutes apart lasting for a minute that she should come to the hospital or if her water broke, she should come to the hospital immediately.

For 18 hours the contractions came and went, slowly increasing in frequency and length. Marcia Lewinsky had no doubts and called her ex-husband who would fly into DC from California first thing in the morning. Monica had a difficult time sleeping despite her mother's emploring her to do so, and refusing to use the stop watch until the contractions started lasting longer. Her mother supported her, compelling her to walk around to relieve pain and discomfort, running her a hot shower every 90 minutes and telling her daughter how brave she was.

At 530pm the following day, Marcia timed the contractions at 4 minutes apart lasting 45 seconds, and that was enough. They put Monica's bags into the car and allowed her to lay in the back seat. Marcia took her to the hospital where she was admitted in labor 3 centimeters dilated. A nurse in the labor and delivery unit was her constant companion as she checked both Monica and the baby's vital signs and progress. At 8pm Monica reached 5 centimeters and was given an epidural to relieve her pain, at 1 am a new nurse took over and diagnosed her as 8 centimeters. Soon she would start pushing the nurse told her. At 2am an OB-GYN came to check on her (Monica's doctor would be on call in the morning) and saw she hadn't made any progress in the last hour. She announced she would break Monica's water (which she did with a plastic hook). At 3am the doctor returned and found Monica's dilation had stopped and became concerned, they would wait another hour she said, and if no progress was made they would remove the baby by c-section

At 325am the nurse looked at the fetal monitor and paged the doctor to return. The baby's heart rate had increased, and was in distress (the baby's stool being found in the seeping amniotic fluid), the doctor announced they could wait no longer and that Monica required an emergency c-section. Monica's regular doctor had been paged and brought in to conduct the procedure whilst the night doctor would assist.

At 401Am Monica's doctor performed an emergency c-section and removed the baby.

It's a boy (as his crying reverberated in the operating room)

Monica cried, her pain numbed both by the medications and by the joy as her son entered the world. Marcia Lewinsky took numerous photographs as the nurses cleaned off the baby and started taking their first tests and measurements

Monica with her head flat on the operating table and a sheet screening her from seeing much of what was going on could only hear what was going on

8 pounds 4 ounces

21 inches long

would you like to hold him Mrs Lewinsky?

Marcia Lewinsky cradled her grandson and brought him around the sheet to meet his mother for the first time

Tears rolled down Monica's face as she looked at her baby boy, his crying replaced by a quiet alertness, as he yawned and his big blue eyes drooped

Do you have a name picked out Monica her doctor asked?

Victor...(holding her sons outstreched hand )

Victor Lewinsky... congratulations (the nurses and doctors clapped and cheered for Monica and then went back to stitching her up)

to be continued...

thoughts?

[Tyg]

Clinton is done. Stick a fork in him. I kind of figured from the title of the TL but man, he is cooked once that tape gets out.

The only way the dems can even hope to salvage this one is if Clinton resigns and Gore runs. Even then, it's no sure bet.

Let's be clear about this, though. The tape is particularly damaging because of Clinton's tone and the emphasis of his concern. He seems more worried about his public status, winning the election, and plain 'ol politics than Monica or the baby he fathered.

Now to be fair to Clinton and honest with ourselves, his reaction is entirely understandable here. It's a moment of panic, confusion, and uncertainty for Bill, and it's only natural that he'd turn to his inherent skills and experience, which are political in nature. He's also never thought about Monica quite this way, and hasn't seen her in months. It'd take time for it to sink in for anyone. So while the tape will hurt Clinton, on dispassionate reflection people could understand why he was reacting that way on it, even while recognizing what it might suggest about Clinton personally.

However, the tape may be seen in a far darker light if Clinton reacts with that same panic, confusion, and uncertainty again. Damage control and cover-up here is quite likely to be even more harmful than the matter itself, or the public reveal of it.

I'd suggest that if Clinton had reacted on the tape not with panic and anger, but calm sympathy for Monica herself and clear regret both for putting her through what is to come and for not being able to offer comfort when she found out, it would be far, far less explosive or politically toxic. If that had been his reaction, his public expressions of shame and contrition later would be better accepted, and make him seem genuine. He'd still be badly hurt, maybe even politically crippled in the election, but he'd still have some chance, and there'd be much less in the way of spillover effects on the Democratic Party in general.

Much as I understand Clinton's panic here, basing his actions on it will nail his coffin shut politically speaking.

[NoOneFamous]

I can't wait until the DOJ nails Tripp to the wall. And Bill is screwed.

[historybuff]

It's a boy. If Linda tells someone working for Gramm then the shit's gonna hit the fan.

[NoOneFamous]

And if Clinton goes on live TV and claims responsibility, most Americans will support and forgive him.

[BlairWitch749]

And if Clinton goes on live TV and claims responsibility, most Americans will support and forgive him.

I'm still outlining Clinton's reaction once it makes it's way into the media

But I think Bill's reaction is only part of the puzzle... Monica's reaction (and or statements to the press) along with Hillary's, his fellow dems and repubs will hold a considerable amount of sway as well

[Chengar Qordath]

Clinton's reaction is definitely going to be very important once the scandal breaks; if he opts for admitting everything and showing shame and contrition, he might manage to weather the storm reasonably well. However, given how things went OTL, I wouldn't be surprised if the first reaction of his administration is an attempt at denial/cover-up (especially with the election so close). It probably depends on whether the tapes come out when the scandal breaks, or if they're held back from the mainstream media for a bit; I could see the Clinton administration going into denial mode if they don't think there's any proof.

[mrmandias]

More generally, the author's enthusiasm for the GOP makes you wonder how much ideological wish fulfilment one can inject into an ATL before it stops being AH and becomes an author tract. It's a recurring issue with some post-1900 and FH stuff, inevitably so as recent history has a political component, but in this case it really pushes the envelope.

It really pushes the envelope? Umm, the 96 election hasn't even happened yet in this TL.

[mrmandias]

Very well put. I for one was a bit surprised at the update. I expected something a little more slick.

Let's be clear about this, though. The tape is particularly damaging because of Clinton's tone and the emphasis of his concern. He seems more worried about his public status, winning the election, and plain 'ol politics than Monica or the baby he fathered.

Now to be fair to Clinton and honest with ourselves, his reaction is entirely understandable here. It's a moment of panic, confusion, and uncertainty for Bill, and it's only natural that he'd turn to his inherent skills and experience, which are political in nature. He's also never thought about Monica quite this way, and hasn't seen her in months. It'd take time for it to sink in for anyone. So while the tape will hurt Clinton, on dispassionate reflection people could understand why he was reacting that way on it, even while recognizing what it might suggest about Clinton personally.

However, the tape may be seen in a far darker light if Clinton reacts with that same panic, confusion, and uncertainty again. Damage control and cover-up here is quite likely to be even more harmful than the matter itself, or the public reveal of it.

I'd suggest that if Clinton had reacted on the tape not with panic and anger, but calm sympathy for Monica herself and clear regret both for putting her through what is to come and for not being able to offer comfort when she found out, it would be far, far less explosive or politically toxic. If that had been his reaction, his public expressions of shame and contrition later would be better accepted, and make him seem genuine. He'd still be badly hurt, maybe even politically crippled in the election, but he'd still have some chance, and there'd be much less in the way of spillover effects on the Democratic Party in general.

Much as I understand Clinton's panic here, basing his actions on it will nail his coffin shut politically speaking.

[BlairWitch749]

It's nice to put a name to the words (Chapter 13)You're entitled to your opinion. I frankly don't really care what you have to say. It has very little impact on my life.” - Sean Hannity

October 1st 1996 Washington DC (Victor Lewinsky is 2 weeks old)

The past two weeks had been the busiest and most difficult of Linda Tripp's life, but the payday would be worth it; and the revenge. That bit she had heard of Clinton calling her a fuck over and over again had set her off beyond the point of no return.

Two weeks prior, after hearing about the birth of Victor Lewinsky, she had reached out to her new confident Matt Drudge (just after tipping him off about the beaching of a North Korean submarine on a South Korean beach) She asked him to come to Washington DC to meet up saying she had something they could only talk about face to face. Drudge snatched up this offer immediately, his "pentagon staffer" had been vital in the growth in popularity of his website.

A driver was waiting for him at Dulles Aiport with a sign bearing his name. The black lincoln towncar took him to the Watergate Hotel and condo complex. A plain middle aged blonde woman sat in the lobby; Linda Tripp. She picked Drudge out easily, the worn fedora, and the classic Walter Winchell type suit made him stick out like a sore thumb versus the diplomats and lobbyists who made up the majority of the incomming guests. She made her way to him and extended her hand

Matt Drudge?
Yes?
I'm Linda Tripp... its nice to put a face with the words
The same here, so you are the pentagon staffer?
I'll be a lot more than that once we break this story (Drudge folled Tripp to the lobby bar where they took a private table

Remember when I first contacted you?
Yes of course, I saved it, you said you had evidence that President Clinton was having an affair then you never mentioned it again?
Well I have that proof...
And we needed to meet in person to go over it? You gave me the unibomber in an email... people have heard about Clinton's affairs, I don't quite follow this Ms Tripp
Well it's bigger than an affair
What do you mean?
Let me show you (Tripp then handed drudge a tape player, with a pair of headphones)
These are 5 of my most important recordings that I have looped into one copy, the evidence will speak for itself (Drudge listened, holding a notebook and pen, ready to take notes; however, when the tape played, he was dumbfounded and couldn't find the focus to write... after a few minutes he pressed stop on the machine and handed it back to Tripp)
My god Ms Tripp, he fathered a child in the oval office!!!? Its the story of a lifetime, and you are a patriot, those things he said about you were awful, he deserves to be plastered with this like the bag of crap he is
I've decided that the country needs to know the man their president is...
Well, you have it right there Ms Tripp I can have that up on the Drudge Report as soon as we can upload the audio and I can draft an article. I'll need to buy some extra servers, I think the website is going to go nuclear when this goes up
I'm going to need more help than just that Matt... those tapes will lead back to me... I'll release the tapes that have me and the white house intern on them... I'll lose my job... I'll need some of the proceeds you generate from your website from my story
of course of course, Ms Tripp you'll have 75 percent of the Drudge Reports earnings for every day I have this story and anything that comes from it up, you have my word; its the least I can do
I have another request... I'm going to give you the story first... but I want it to be part of a coordinated media outing of the president
what do you have in mind
well... I've noticed you are a guest on the Sean Hannity radio show
he reads the Drudge Report, in no small part due to the great information you have provided
well I want him to do the first conventional media interview... with both of us... I don't have experience with such things, I'll need you to guide me through it, but I need the media appearance so I can sell books about this since I'll never get another job
I'm sure I can get something set up... you want to be on his radio show together, he broadcasts out of WABC in New York. When do you want to break everything?
October 6th, I want to break the story on your website at 4pm so people can read it while they are still at work then I want to be on Hannity's afternoon drive at 5pm
4 hours before the presidential debate in Hartford!? Holy god Ms Tripp, it'll turn the media upside down... you know Hannity's television show is supposed to start the day after that? I bet to hell if I tell him, they will bump up its debut one night... we can get you on television with him... do you want to be on tv?
if its with Hannity yes... but when you arrange it, I want no morality attacks on me taping the conversations... I know those will come, but I don't want that the first day, I want the first day to be about making the President known for who he is
I know Hannity he will play ball. But listen, logistically this is huge, we only have two weeks to set it up... Is it ok if I tell him... I mean he is getting the first interview, I'm sure he will keep an ultra tight lid on the situation; I trust him
Yes but don't tell any secretaries or whatever, tell him and him alone.

to be continued...


thoughts?

[historybuff]

Oh boy, Bill's gonna be crushed by this when it gets out, and if he loses the election to Gramm, it'll be a lot worse.

[Cuāuhtemōc]

I can imagine the smug look on Hannity's face just hearing Tripp and Drudge spill the beans.

Nice update, Blair.

[BlairWitch749]

I can imagine the smug look on Hannity's face just hearing Tripp and Drudge spill the beans.

Nice update, Blair.
tried to do a perfect storm since that was the day fox news debuted and a presidential debate... he seemed like a useful character to insert since he was and is tight with drudge and would represent a friendly outlet to get the story out who won't dump on Tripp for wiretapping

[Plumber]

President Gramm, High Priest of Deregulation... Oy vey.
What's also interesting is the tapes will bring Bush's affair to light.

[usertron2020]

BTW, i noticed you didn't jump on the comments i was responding to.

I lost the update, and stopped following the thread. These things happen:rolleyes:. And I'm not getting kicked over this. If I see a TL that plays on modern politics, flame wars can result. I was guilty of that myself at the start of this thread.:o I had forgotten the following facts:
1) Many people on the forum have no clear memory of politics going all the way back to 1991, and much may have been forgotten
2) Many people of the time supported the removal of Clinton, at the time, for reasons running to as little as Whitewater or even Genifer Flowers
3) Many people of the time were quite happy with the private campaign to destroy Clinton. It ran after all from almost his first exploratory committee to the end of his presidency (claiming criminality in his last minute pardons). Any means to justify the ends.

BTW? I despise Bill Clinton too. He humiliated his family, dishonored his office, broke faith with everyone whoever supported him, embarrassed his country, left his staff to twist in the wind, and yes, broke the law by committing perjujry. I have no use for the man whatsoever.:mad:

However, I despise his domestic political enemies more. Notice I said enemies, not opponents. Men like Dole and Gramm were opponents of his, not enemies. Both good men, and fine leaders who put country before party, or the movement for conservatism. Gingrich was an enemy. Bob Barr was an enemy. Bob Dornan, Fox News, Hate Radio, Matt Drudge, Anne Coulter, Richard Mellon-Scaife, Ken Starr, Judicial Watch, Paula Jones' second set of handlers, Lucianne Goldberg, and yes, IOTL at least, Linda Tripp.:mad::mad:

EDIT: In reviewing my post, I realized I did NOT precisely respond to your last post. So. All people who are moderates, or take political ideas from throughout the political spectrum (any they see workable and passable), run the risk of being accused of having no ideals. No firm belief in any causes. Stay safely to the right or left side of any litmus test issue, and you can always count on the reliable support of one party base or the other. One of the major reasons Clinton was so hated was because he liked to cherrypick items that were popular with parts of his opponents' base, which tended to upset the hard left wing of his own party. But if he is so willing to believe in nothing at all, I ask: Would anyone ever confuse him with a true conservative?

Last point. Gramm gets elected, alright. And after four years of mega-deregulation the dot.com bubble bursts sooner and the de-regulation crash hits before 2000. Clinton's defeat in 1996 was a personal one. The Democrats as a party are not touched. Leaving the electorate feeling somewhat...off. Gramm loses in 2000 to the Democratic candidate *fill name in here*. Does Gramm face a primary challenge from GWB?

[BlairWitch749]

President Gramm, High Priest of Deregulation... Oy vey.
What's also interesting is the tapes will bring Bush's affair to light.

That is something I have been thinking about. I think Bush Sr was the last person who the Washington press corps allowed to have their affair remain as a whisper and rumor (unless someone wishes to disagree... I was born in 1983, so my memories of his presidency are a bit fuzzy)

But having Clinton say right in the most important tape that Tripp leaked Bush Sr's affair might reopen an examination of his activities; however Clinton's issues can and will be more sensational

[BlairWitch749]

I lost the update, and stopped following the thread. These things happen:rolleyes:. And I'm not getting kicked over this. If I see a TL that plays on modern politics, flame wars can result. I was guilty of that myself at the start of this thread.:o I had forgotten the following facts:
1) Many people on the forum have no clear memory of politics going all the way back to 1991, and much may have been forgotten
2) Many people of the time supported the removal of Clinton, at the time, for reasons running to as little as Whitewater or even Genifer Flowers
3) Many people of the time were quite happy with the private campaign to destroy Clinton. It ran after all from almost his first exploratory committee to the end of his presidency (claiming criminality in his last minute pardons). Any means to justify the ends.

BTW? I despise Bill Clinton too. He humiliated his family, dishonored his office, broke faith with everyone whoever supported him, embarrassed his country, left his staff to twist in the wind, and yes, broke the law by committing perjujry. I have no use for the man whatsoever.:mad:

However, I despise his domestic political enemies more. Notice I said enemies, not opponents. Men like Dole and Gramm were opponents of his, not enemies. Both good men, and fine leaders who put country before party, or the movement for conservatism. Gingrich was an enemy. Bob Barr was an enemy. Bob Dornan, Fox News, Hate Radio, Matt Drudge, Anne Coulter, Richard Mellon-Scaife, Ken Starr, Judicial Watch, Paula Jones' second set of handlers, Lucianne Goldberg, and yes, IOTL at least, Linda Tripp.:mad::mad:

EDIT: In reviewing my post, I realized I did NOT precisely respond to your last post. So. All people who are moderates, or take political ideas from throughout the political spectrum (any they see workable and passable), run the risk of being accused of having no ideals. No firm belief in any causes. Stay safely to the right or left side of any litmus test issue, and you can always count on the reliable support of one party base or the other. One of the major reasons Clinton was so hated was because he liked to cherrypick items that were popular with parts of his opponents' base, which tended to upset the hard left wing of his own party. But if he is so willing to believe in nothing at all, I ask: Would anyone ever confuse him with a true conservative?

Last point. Gramm gets elected, alright. And after four years of mega-deregulation the dot.com bubble bursts sooner and the de-regulation crash hits before 2000. Clinton's defeat in 1996 was a personal one. The Democrats as a party are not touched. Leaving the electorate feeling somewhat...off. Gramm loses in 2000 to the Democratic candidate *fill name in here*. Does Gramm face a primary challenge from GWB?


I don't disagree that there was a line between political opponent and uber hack enemy that Gingrich and many others where not afraid to cross... I disagree with you on Goldberg and Tripp if only because they where in it for the money, not the politics (especially since Tripp was leaking stuff about Bush sr)

I don't see how deregulation has an effect on the duration of the dot.com bubble (unless Gramm eliminates the uptick rule and allows naked short selling like W did... which even then, I would only assume would make the crash worse, not pop the bubble earlier)

I think the down ticket effects in 1996 would be somewhat substantial... forgetting even that this would polarize the conservatives to come out and vote in high numbers... there are conservative and blue dog dems (hell maybe even a few catholics in the north east) who might be convinced to stay home... if you aren't going out to vote for Clinton because he had an out of wedlock baby or has made you ashamed to vote for him; how motivated would you be to still get out for John Kerry?

I can't fathom Gramm getting a primary challenge from W... Gramm is a close ally of W's father and a fellow Texan... plus with Buchanan squashed early and Spencer Abraham who is beloved by the right wing media on the ticket, I would assume that party discipline would be excellent

[NoOneFamous]

Tripp will be in serious trouble no matter who is President. She's broken several Federal laws and will be prosecuted and hopefully wind up in jail.

Even a Republican President can not ignore this.

[BlairWitch749]

Tripp will be in serious trouble no matter who is President. She's broken several Federal laws and will be prosecuted and hopefully wind up in jail.

Even a Republican President can not ignore this.

Even without the tapping of a pentagon phone...it will be obvious when she makes joint appearances with Matt Drudge that she was leaking Pentagon material to him and was enabling his success

However prosecuting her would be extremely problematic depending on how well she can develop a narative of her self as a whistleblower.... getting 12 people to convict her; when she will have the conservative media in lock step defending her to the death will be exceedingly difficult if not impossible

the wiretapping charge wouldn't stick I don't think (too easy to claim I saw an abuse of power and had to do something)... but the leaking to the drudge report... if it can be proven that could get her into some serious trouble (although Sandy Berger stole classified documents and hid them in his socks without going to prison, I'm dubious Tripp would go to jail... more likely she would be fired, lose her security clearance, and be assessed fines and community service.

i think gramm wouldn't comment on it at all and would do everything possible to keep it a non story

[Hades]

Just one question: Theoretically, could Clinton try to get it pulled the same way a British D-Notice could pull a story in the UK?

[lloyd007]

Just one question: Theoretically, could Clinton try to get it pulled the same way a British D-Notice could pull a story in the UK?

If Tripp had gone to a mainstream paper, NYT, WSJ, Washington Post and etc... possibly... not a chance in hell with Matt Drudge though and once it's out there it's out there, there will be no stopping it.

[Wildcard F. Kennedy]

While the timeline centers around Clinton and Monica, and the aftermath, I do hope you'll continue on afterwards. It would be interesting to see Gramm's presidency and even on into 2000.

Nice work so far!

[NoOneFamous]

Even without the tapping of a pentagon phone...it will be obvious when she makes joint appearances with Matt Drudge that she was leaking Pentagon material to him and was enabling his success

However prosecuting her would be extremely problematic depending on how well she can develop a narative of her self as a whistleblower.... getting 12 people to convict her; when she will have the conservative media in lock step defending her to the death will be exceedingly difficult if not impossible

the wiretapping charge wouldn't stick I don't think (too easy to claim I saw an abuse of power and had to do something)... but the leaking to the drudge report... if it can be proven that could get her into some serious trouble (although Sandy Berger stole classified documents and hid them in his socks without going to prison, I'm dubious Tripp would go to jail... more likely she would be fired, lose her security clearance, and be assessed fines and community service.

i think gramm wouldn't comment on it at all and would do everything possible to keep it a non story

First off, even if found not guilty, she will never work for the Federal Government again, she won't be trusted.Plus she violated national security by wiretapping phones inside the Pentagon

Expect Monica to sue her.

Gramm will understand that if he doesn't prosecute her, then either he or the next GOP president will be facing a Democratic version of Tripp

[usertron2020]

First off, even if found not guilty, she will never work for the Federal Government again, she won't be trusted.Plus she violated national security by wiretapping phones inside the Pentagon

Expect Monica to sue her.

Gramm will understand that if he doesn't prosecute her, then either he or the next GOP president will be facing a Democratic version of Tripp

If the GOP continues to control Congress and the Supreme Court, no Democratic Tripp can do anything. No one to turn to except a thoroughly intimidated (and corporate owned) general media. With the right wing media denouncing the "Dem Tripp" 24/7. The GOP has all three branches of government. Nothing happens, short of a live boy AND a dead girl.:rolleyes:.3

As to what happens to Tripp? Nothing. Except the only person to hire her will be the person she works for today, IOTL. Her husband.

[pnyckqx]

I lost the update, and stopped following the thread. These things happen:rolleyes:. And I'm not getting kicked over this. If I see a TL that plays on modern politics, flame wars can result. I was guilty of that myself at the start of this thread.:o I had forgotten the following facts:
1) Many people on the forum have no clear memory of politics going all the way back to 1991, and much may have been forgotten
2) Many people of the time supported the removal of Clinton, at the time, for reasons running to as little as Whitewater or even Genifer Flowers
3) Many people of the time were quite happy with the private campaign to destroy Clinton. It ran after all from almost his first exploratory committee to the end of his presidency (claiming criminality in his last minute pardons). Any means to justify the ends.You're not going to get kicked, at least not by me. No matter what your political philosophy might be, i value your contributions to this board --read a lot of your work-- too much to descend into that nonsense.

Incidentally, i was initially responding to what appeared to be an inaccurate, partisan political statement. For the record, though i have an ideology, and will be happy to tell it to you privately --faster than getting the hints from my posting history--, i reject the "Right vs. Left" paradigm. Don't have a dog in that fight, but i can spew the rhetoric from either side as well as anyone, and better than a lot of them.



BTW? I despise Bill Clinton too. He humiliated his family, dishonored his office, broke faith with everyone whoever supported him, embarrassed his country, left his staff to twist in the wind, and yes, broke the law by committing perjujry. I have no use for the man whatsoever.:mad:That's one difference between us. While i despise Clinton, i can recognise and acknowledge the things that he was good at.

Personally, i worry about the mentality shown by the general electorate in that they will happily vote a person into a position of great responsibility when they would not trust that same person to babysit their children.

Some have said that we get the government that we deserve. God help us if that is the case.



However, I despise his domestic political enemies more. Notice I said enemies, not opponents. Men like Dole and Gramm were opponents of his, not enemies. Both good men, and fine leaders who put country before party, or the movement for conservatism. Gingrich was an enemy. Bob Barr was an enemy. Bob Dornan, Fox News, Hate Radio, Matt Drudge, Anne Coulter, Richard Mellon-Scaife, Ken Starr, Judicial Watch, Paula Jones' second set of handlers, Lucianne Goldberg, and yes, IOTL at least, Linda Tripp.:mad::mad:Depends on whose ox is getting gored doesn't it?

i could defend each and every name you place, and say similar things about a bunch of 'leftist' analogs to each one. It would still be meaningless as an argument.

The point is that opponents/enemies is a distinction without a difference in the political environment.

EDIT: In reviewing my post, I realized I did NOT precisely respond to your last post. So. All people who are moderates, or take political ideas from throughout the political spectrum (any they see workable and passable), run the risk of being accused of having no ideals. No firm belief in any causes. Stay safely to the right or left side of any litmus test issue, and you can always count on the reliable support of one party base or the other. One of the major reasons Clinton was so hated was because he liked to cherrypick items that were popular with parts of his opponents' base, which tended to upset the hard left wing of his own party. But if he is so willing to believe in nothing at all, I ask: Would anyone ever confuse him with a true conservative?M'kay, take a breath. My comments concern Bill Clinton, and only Bill Clinton. The man does not have a set ideology, and many have recognised that from both the right and the left. i have no problem with 'middle of the road' as an ideology. It goes back to an ancient Greek proverb that loosely translates to "all is balance". Clinton on the other hand was into power for power's own sake. About the only discernable philosophy with Bill Clinton was pragmatism that was often nullified by temper tantrums when he gave into them.

Last point. Gramm gets elected, alright. And after four years of mega-deregulation the dot.com bubble bursts sooner and the de-regulation crash hits before 2000. Clinton's defeat in 1996 was a personal one. The Democrats as a party are not touched. Leaving the electorate feeling somewhat...off. Gramm loses in 2000 to the Democratic candidate *fill name in here*. Does Gramm face a primary challenge from GWB?The Democratic Party fortunes can't really go anywhere but up. They'd lost the House and Senate both OTL and ITTL in the 94 election. If necessary, they'd throw Clinton under a bus as fast as the Republicans did to Nixon.

Many issues in the impeachment proceedings against Clinton never came out. The senate was not about to let that happen. Clinton could have shot his wife in the face on national television and the Republican senate would not have voted to convict. Al Gore as an incumbent wasn't going to happen. The thinking was that a damaged Clinton was better for Republican fortunes. However, that was concerning the 2000 election. If Clinton loses the 96 election ITTL, what value impeachment for a man who will be out of office in three months?

The Republicans already saw what happens when you challenge an incumbent. The result was Jimmy Carter.:(

The Democrats learned the same thing to their misfortune. The result was Ronald Reagan.

No way does Bush challenge in 2000.

[NoOneFamous]

If the GOP continues to control Congress and the Supreme Court, no Democratic Tripp can do anything. No one to turn to except a thoroughly intimidated (and corporate owned) general media. With the right wing media denouncing the "Dem Tripp" 24/7. The GOP has all three branches of government. Nothing happens, short of a live boy AND a dead girl.:rolleyes:.3

As to what happens to Tripp? Nothing. Except the only person to hire her will be the person she works for today, IOTL. Her husband.

Sooner or later, the GOP will lose control, nothing is forever.

[thekingsguard]

Can't wait for the update <grabs popcorn and prepares for the fireworks>

[jmill]

I wonder how the public will react to the revaluation of the President's tryst and its consequences.

[Cam the not-so-great]

Interesting story...looks like it's about the hit the fan for Slick Willy....:cool:

[BlairWitch749]

Put your cards on the table (Chapter 14) “When you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. When you have the law on your side, argue the law. When you have neither, holler.” - Vice President Gore

October 6th 1996 New York City New York (Victor Lewinsky is 3 weeks old)

Matt Drudge had put a lot of money and effort to work the previous two weeks. Not only in crafting the article which he would author detailing the shocking affair between Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton, but adding his own personal commentary to the tapes; in a way he had unique control of what the first message the American public would get about the situation. He would also be deferential and kind to Linda Tripp who had given his site the opportunity of a life time.

He also ordered 24 high end servers from CISCO featuring the new high performance Intel Pentium Pro processor and had integrated them to support his website which he knew would be deluged with hits as soon as the story went live.

He and Linda Tripp carefully uploaded her audio recordings and would link them in the article, allowing the reader to hear Clinton admit the affair and the child in his own words

Radio commentator Sean Hannity had been hard at work as well after being informed of the situation by Matt Drudge. He was delighted at Drudge's request to interview him and his source on a Clinton love child... Drudge even played one of the recordings for him to prove the authenticity. The request that Drudge's source not be attacked for the wiretapping was an easy one for Hannity to honor, this was the interview and political opportunity of a life time, not to mention sticking it to Bill Clinton held a large personal value to him. He had gone to superiors at the FOX NEWS network (which was set to debut the following day) saying that he had a tremendous story that would attract super bowl esque ratings (this was of course an overstatement) but that he couldn't tell them what it was until 5pm that day. Starting FOX NEWS early proved inpractical for a number of reasons and besides, many cable networks hadn't picked it up yet so Hannity wouldn't exactly reach the audience he was looking for, so instead his superiors would allow him to broadcast a "Fox News Special" which would air on regular Fox channels and the affiliates... it would take place 30 minutes after the debate between Gramm and Clinton to allow for commentary and commercial break, and some hyping of the special across the spectrum

At 4pm Matt Drudge took his fedora off at a remote computer station set up in Sean Hannity's office and wiped the sweat from his brow. His heart raced in excitement as he clicked the publish button to update the banner headline and link on the drudge report. The headline was simple, the headline would change everything, the headline was lethal

President Clinton fathers child with White House Intern INSIDE the Oval Office!

Although he had switched to a web hosting format some months ago. Matt Drudge had kept and continued to expand his email list and when he published the story, he activated the list, hitting 483 thousand email boxes almost instantly. Hannity was still in commercial break and would be so for the next 7 minutes and would introduce the story to his audience and tease the interview at 5pm. Matt Drudge nervously watched his software as it counted the hits on the story. In 1 minute he had 52,891 hits, in three minutes he had 204,727 and when Sean Hannity's introduction music started reverberating throughout the WABC building signaling 30 seconds until he was back on the air the Drudge Report's headline article had taken 538,116 hits.

Holy Shit Matt Drudge thought to himself, the Spencer Abraham story took over 12 hours before it took that many hits and it was spiraling rapidly as more and fore people forwarded the link to the drudge report to friends family and co workers.

And now Sean Hannity
Thank you Scott Shannon and Welcome back to the Sean Hannity radio show, glad you are with us. We have breaking news from the Drudge Report which just went live with this during our commercial break... the Drudge Report is reporting that President Bill Clinton has fathered a child with a 22 year old White House staff member. His webiste has audio recordings between the President and the staff member and other recordings of the staff member confirming the child and who the father is. This is morally stunning to me and I am sure to you in this audience... and I proud to announce that my friend Matt Drudge and his brave source for this article will be guests on this radio show in the 5pm hour so stay tuned you don't want to miss a second of this... and I can also confirm now that Matt Drudge and his source for the article will be special guests tonight on a Fox Special which will air shortly after the debate between President Clinton and Senator Gramm tonight...


to be continued...

thoughts?

[Plumber]

I hear shit hitting the fan.

[historybuff]

How's Bill gonna get himself outta this one?

[Ariosto]

I hear shit hitting the fan.

The question is inevitably going to come up in the debate, and Clinton is going to only have a few hours to come up with a good response to something that he didn't expect. At the same time though, he DID know Trip knew about it, and could have prepared a response ahead of time, but will it work? Gramm will also know about it, and proceed to bash him on that subject. Gramm is likely going to get the KO that Dole needed, and failed to get.

[mrmandias]

I can't look away . . .

[BlairWitch749]

The question is inevitably going to come up in the debate, and Clinton is going to only have a few hours to come up with a good response to something that he didn't expect. At the same time though, he DID know Trip knew about it, and could have prepared a response ahead of time, but will it work? Gramm will also know about it, and proceed to bash him on that subject. Gramm is likely going to get the KO that Dole needed, and failed to get.

If you see the Jim Lehrer quote I had up a few updates ago you know he is going to bring it up :cool:

I haven't outlined Clinton's response yet... but he basically has 4 hours to come up with some kind of answer to what he is accused of... not easy

[Commissar]

If you see the Jim Lehrer quote I had up a few updates ago you know he is going to bring it up :cool:

I haven't outlined Clinton's response yet... but he basically has 4 hours to come up with some kind of answer to what he is accused of... not easy

My advice, go the Kennedy route and admit, he screwed up, accept responsibility, and all that Jazz and then go on with his vision for America.

And the Secret Service should be scrambling now.

[Georgepatton]

My advice, go the Kennedy route and admit, he screwed up, accept responsibility, and all that Jazz and then go on with his vision for America.

And the Secret Service should be scrambling now.

That's the smart thing to do, but 'the smart move' and 'Washington' don't always overlap, do they?

[Chengar Qordath]

My advice, go the Kennedy route and admit, he screwed up, accept responsibility, and all that Jazz and then go on with his vision for America.

That would have been the smart thing to do OTL too, but instead we got months of denials that nobody believed. Going into panic-denial mode and insisting that the tapes were fabrications created by the vast right-wing conspiracy to discredit Clinton on the eve of the election would be a bad move, but it is not completely outside the realm of possibility.

[Commissar]

That's the smart thing to do, but 'the smart move' and 'Washington' don't always overlap, do they?

Does anything ever do?

[NoOneFamous]

this is the proverbial train wreck

[lothaw]

Timing this to just before the presidential debate... that's mean. :p

[FDW]

OH SHI- ……………

[Cam the not-so-great]

Slick Willy probably has a shrewd statement planned. However, if Hillary decides she's had enough and divorces him, I'd say he's toast. I can't see her standing by her husband on this one, especially when the paternity test comes back. :cool:

[BlairWitch749]

Slick Willy probably has a shrewd statement planned. However, if Hillary decides she's had enough and divorces him, I'd say he's toast. I can't see her standing by her husband on this one, especially when the paternity test comes back. :cool:

I think Hillary is the wild card here... well beyond any statements Monica herself might make.

There is a difference between a marriage of convenience that is mutually beneficial and being out and out humiliated (not that Monica and the other Clinton women didn't humiliate her, but a love child is that to the next level)

Keep in mind Chelsea is a teenager, this will be hard on her too (plus this is two years earlier than the otl discovery of the clinton-lewinsky relationship)

[BlairWitch749]

Timing this to just before the presidential debate... that's mean. :p

gives new meaning to october surprise ;)

[Georgepatton]

Keep in mind Chelsea is a teenager, this will be hard on her too (plus this is two years earlier than the otl discovery of the clinton-lewinsky relationship)

The fact that daddy went and knocked up a girl young enough to be your sister is not something I'd ever want to have to deal with, certainly.

[pnyckqx]

Slick Willy probably has a shrewd statement planned. However, if Hillary decides she's had enough and divorces him, I'd say he's toast. I can't see her standing by her husband on this one, especially when the paternity test comes back. :cool:Exactly. You beat me to that one.

BOTH Clintons have to be on the same page for Bill to have a chance at reelection.

OTL the feminists betrayed every principle they had to support Bill Clinton. Not sure that would happen without Hilary.

[gmavrom]

Better yet. Monika hears the news and panics. Out of shame she jumps in to the river with the baby killing themselves

[Hades]

Clinton is in for a very rough ride to say the least...

[Burton K Wheeler]

Better yet. Monika hears the news and panics. Out of shame she jumps in to the river with the baby killing themselves

That's trolling. Don't troll.

[Ariosto]

How is it going to look if Clinton denies the child is his yet Monica and Victor are surrounded by the Secret Service?

[BlairWitch749]

How is it going to look if Clinton denies the child is his yet Monica and Victor are surrounded by the Secret Service?

she is a pentagon employee and being mobbed the media... at minimum the capital police would have do crowd control and block them off even if Clinton denied the child

[BlairWitch749]

The suits (Chapter 15) Truth will come out eventually - Ken Starr

Hartford CT October 6th 1996 (Victor Lewinsky is 3 weeks old)

President Clinton and his staff where in a state approaching panic as the news filtered in to them that Matt Drudge and Sean Hannity had leaked the existence of his affair with Monica Lewinsky and the birth of a son.

Clinton had been in something of denial about the situation, hoping and praying that since Tripp hadn't said anything thus far that she might not say anything at all. But the moment he had dreaded the last 4 weeks had come to a head and worst of all just hours before his first debate with Gramm.

At 512 PM whilst Clinton and his speech writing team where desperately trying to come up with a reasonable response and listening to the sickening interview with Hannity Drudge and Tripp (they where sure it would come up at the debate) Eljay Bowron, the director of the secret service came in saying he needed to speak to Clinton urgently and privately. Clinton told him to make it quick and sent his aides from the room

Mr President I'm sure you have heard the news?
Yes...
My men have found that Monica Lewinsky and the child are at the Watergate condo complex... staying with her mother... I want to get two teams over there immediately
Christ the fucking Watergate...the press will love to draw on that analogy... is that really necessary Eljay?
Yes sir, the media is starting to build up there since the internet story broke, and its only going to get worse
I really don't want the secret service there Eljay, it implies a lot... the suites and earpieces will send a powerful message...can't we keep the media back with the capitol police... I want to be as discreet as possible
Discreet is impossible in this situation Mr. President; you can't hold back hundreds of reporters and camera men without some visible presence... and the capitol police have big freaking mouths, you can at least count on my teams not give interviews to the Washington Post
This is going to look really bad Eljay
It'll look worse if the woman and her baby get mobbed or injured by the crowd, I need your authorization for this now
... OK...(deep in thought and worry) keep them safe Eljay... do it as quietly as possible
we will handle it sir (Eljay left the room to scramble his teams to the Watergate)

to be continued...

thoughts?

[Commissar]

Bill, is going to have to pull every bag of tricks he has to recover, but I say he can do it, as most people who would care sat out the vote anyway.

[historybuff]

It can't be that simple, Bill's gonna have to use every trick he knows to keep this under wraps.

[NoOneFamous]

What's Hilary doing?

They didn't call him the Teflon President for nothing. It's going to take alot of effort for him to get out from under this.

[BlairWitch749]

Bill, is going to have to pull every bag of tricks he has to recover, but I say he can do it, as most people who would care sat out the vote anyway.

There was no Lewinsky scandal in 1996...although they had the affair then, it didn't become public until 1998 in OTL

[BlairWitch749]

What's Hilary doing?

They didn't call him the Teflon President for nothing. It's going to take alot of effort for him to get out from under this.

Next update is hillary