ME7: 1899 Chat Thread

[Glen]

If I haven't mentioned it before, great bits in the Heraldo, Condi.

BTW, p99, one of the main teachings of the prophet is showing charity by freeing slaves; other than a bullet to the head, how is this effecting Draka society?

[Imajin]

You know, I wonder if we could make an ME7 Victoria Mod...

[Othniel]

Try to make Mauriafrica exsist.

[Imajin]

Try to make Mauriafrica exsist.
Good point... It'd have to be Morocco or something... We'd probably have similar problems with Karelia, I can't remember if you can even have a Finland in that game... I play EU2 more, but it's the wrong time period.

[Othniel]

Not to mention the fun you'll have recreating Oregon country... La Plata should be easy though, same with Persia and Russia.

[Imajin]

I've found a guide for adding countries to the game... So maybe Mauriafrica won't have to be Morocco after all.

[Bulgaroktonos]

I like how my political parties have totally switched sides from OTL. The Liberals have become the proponents of control from London, and the Conservatives have become the proponents of Home Rule.....

[perdedor99]

If I haven't mentioned it before, great bits in the Heraldo, Condi.

BTW, p99, one of the main teachings of the prophet is showing charity by freeing slaves; other than a bullet to the head, how is this effecting Draka society?

After a long while better treatment of serfs. With Islamic teachings and a growing second class citizens class coming from the serf class, eventually I think the serfs will dissappear as a class if their pace of conquest is stopped for a while. But that is in the far future, 1960's or 1980's at the earliest.

[Glen]

After a long while better treatment of serfs. With Islamic teachings and a growing second class citizens class coming from the serf class, eventually I think the serfs will dissappear as a class if their pace of conquest is stopped for a while. But that is in the far future, 1960's or 1980's at the earliest.

So more of a class society, rather than a slave society? Maybe classes based on military service in the end?

[Matt]

shades of Starship Troopers

[perdedor99]

shades of Starship Troopers

It just coming along as the events unfold but the parallel is funny. Right now the serfs can look forward to been free in twenty years if elected to serve in the janissaries and when they marry their wives and the children they have will be free. More like blacks in the Jim Crow era but they have real rights and the Archon knows they are a growing force and he's cultivating this growing class. I didn't thought that parallel when started all, Mbarry, but it could turn into a islamic starship trooper nation due to the events in the ME7 world. Weird!

[Bulgaroktonos]

Preparing a little attack upon the Suez, P99?

I've got some interesting solutions to tie your troops down. Churchill is nobody's fool, and he'll be in power in a few months.......

God I love Arthur Balfour (hint hint.....)

[perdedor99]

Preparing a little attack upon the Suez, P99?

I've got some interesting solutions to tie your troops down. Churchill is nobody's fool, and he'll be in power in a few months.......

God I love Arthur Balfour (hint hint.....)

Actually Galba is running Persia again. And promises to the sons of Zion,right? ;) Irgun anyone. :D

[perdedor99]

First Bulg, Damn you and your giant fleet! :D And second you have two Nova Scotias at the very end. Ran out of names?

[Ward]

France is anounsing that in July She will moblize her Full Res, for two weeks .

This will be the first time the army has moblized since the war with Prussia .

This will be all the men who have serve in the army in the last 20 years .

[Bulgaroktonos]

First Bulg, Damn you and your giant fleet! :D And second you have two Nova Scotias at the very end. Ran out of names?

Eh, probably a typo. Meant to replace a name here with a name there, etc.

I've got plenty of Dukes around.....

As for the Sons of Zion, I won't say if you are right or if you are wrong. Though that is an interesting proposition.....

Oh, and that fleet was just the battleships......

muahahahahhaa!!!

[Glen]

It just coming along as the events unfold but the parallel is funny. Right now the serfs can look forward to been free in twenty years if elected to serve in the janissaries and when they marry their wives and the children they have will be free. More like blacks in the Jim Crow era but they have real rights and the Archon knows they are a growing force and he's cultivating this growing class. I didn't thought that parallel when started all, Mbarry, but it could turn into a islamic starship trooper nation due to the events in the ME7 world. Weird!

That would be cool. ;)

You know what your problem is, p99? Despite your many posts of impalements and blasting heads off of serfs, in the end you're just too damned sensible. And good sense is what will cause your Draka in the end to be something very different from the books....

[Matt]

Someone take charge of the US :D

[Bulgaroktonos]

Someone take charge of the US :D

I'll volunteer!!!!

[perdedor99]

I'll volunteer!!!!

Somebody neutral, please! :D I think Glen already did.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Somebody neutral, please! :D I think Glen already did.

Damn......

[reformer]

Considering ME7 seems to be going into a new strong childhood, am I right that ME8 will be delayed more? Now I wish I had joined ME7. . . who knows how long it will be untill a proper ME game starts.

[Glen]

The United States of America is well in hand, have no fear. And since we our neighbors and in accord in most of our policies, it is fairly easy to keep running.

Bulg, if the British need anything, just let me know...

[Glen]

Unfortunately, the ocean levels will not go down that quickly, gentlemen. You would have to have a massive increase in precipitation to deposit that much water on Antarctica to support such Glaciation. And the Ocean around the Coast freezing won't affect ocean levels since it floats in the ocean and thus displaces it.

It will take a lot longer for the Glaciation of Antarctica than it did its deglaciation.

Which really is unfortunate, since New Granada would gain some real estate, especially in Florida... :D It would be well worth the extra work of dredging canals for that, especially if it were dispersed over a century or so. But it is more likely to take millenia, not centuries.

Now, if we do a fastforward of 1 day = 1 century... :eek: ;)

[DuQuense]

Well the Inch / year is fr the 200 year prediction, I figure this will be like the Greenhouse effect. everyone knows about it, but no one can figure what to do about it.

and New Granada would lose lots of Florida, as the Everglades dry up, and south Florida, turns into a Desert Sand Bar.

[Bulgaroktonos]

The United States of America is well in hand, have no fear. And since we our neighbors and in accord in most of our policies, it is fairly easy to keep running.

Bulg, if the British need anything, just let me know...

Britain would like a few more of those New Jersey Class boats to have been ordered in 1898, when the first shipment of them were finished. Say 5 or 6 of them, to be delivered mid or late-1899

[Glen]

Well the Inch / year is fr the 200 year prediction, I figure this will be like the Greenhouse effect. everyone knows about it, but no one can figure what to do about it.

and New Granada would lose lots of Florida, as the Everglades dry up, and south Florida, turns into a Desert Sand Bar.

Nope on several levels.

First, I'm not convinced that climatology is advanced enough at this time to be making these predictions.

An inch per year is unrealistic. Try more an inch per century.

The Everglades wouldn't dry up, rather more land would arise. They are still extremely low and there is no reason they would become a desert. Look at the glacial periods; life was rife in Florida.

[perdedor99]

Any reaction of Albion in the recent annexation of Macedonia by Austria? And to the recent flurry of activity in the Palestine area?

[DuQuense]

I was planning a piece with the Scientists at the pole debating the whole thing,

and I'll admit 200 years may be a little fast,

But 10 meters equals 400 inches, divided by 200 years equals 2 inch per year, equals 20 inches a decade, So my 1 inch /year is Conservative.

The Everglades is a River Delta [Okeechobee River, the one they damed to form Lake Okeechobee] with the ocean acting like a dike around it.
If the ocean drops the river runs out to the sea and the glades dry up.
The sites I visited for my 'Years without Summer' TL showed south Florida as a Sand Desert during the Glacial period.

[Glen]

I was planning a piece with the Scientists at the pole debating the whole thing,

and I'll admit 200 years may be a little fast,

But 10 meters equals 400 inches, divided by 200 years equals 2 inch per year, equals 20 inches a decade, So my 1 inch /year is Conservative.

It is really not conservative, IMO. You are saying essentially that enough precipitation can fall on the Antarctic interior to lower the entire ocean by an inch every year. Show me a glaciation period where that rapid a period of change happened.

The Everglades is a River Delta [Okeechobee River, the one they damed to form Lake Okeechobee]

Lake Okeechobee is 6000 years old my friend, and one of the largest lakes in the Continental US.

The Everglades is a unique ecosystem, and while there are some similarities to a river delta, it is not one. There are no rivers there, really...the whole thing is a hundreds mile wide, very shallow, river.
[QUOTE]with the ocean acting like a dike around it.

I'm not even sure here what you mean. The freshwater of the Everglades flows into the ocean...

If the ocean drops the river runs out to the sea

Again, you are losing me here. Do you mean the water in the Everglades by 'river'. I'm telling you, they already do run out to the ocean.

and the glades dry up.
The sites I visited for my 'Years without Summer' TL showed south Florida as a Sand Desert during the Glacial period.

Just making a quick perusal myself, it does appear that at the height of the glacial period, that the climate was much drier, but there appears to be still debate as to just how dry. More scrub and savannah, with more lush vegetation around the rivers and springs, rather than a desolate desert. At the same time as those conditions prevailed, Florida was three times as large as now.

In any event, these changes will be thousands of years in the making, not hundreds.

BTW, what was your premise in 'Years without Summer' TL?

[Glen]

Nice speech, p99.

However, you are taking liberties when you are quoting statistics from other players' nations.

I'm certain you've done your homework, and those numbers reflect OTL, however these are not our OTL nations, and at least while I am playing the USA for MBarry, I feel obligated to ask you from refraining from creating specifics for his nation. You want to say vague things about his nation, fine, but please don't manufacture statistics for it.

[perdedor99]

Nice speech, p99.

However, you are taking liberties when you are quoting statistics from other players' nations.

I'm certain you've done your homework, and those numbers reflect OTL, however these are not our OTL nations, and at least while I am playing the USA for MBarry, I feel obligated to ask you from refraining from creating specifics for his nation. You want to say vague things about his nation, fine, but please don't manufacture statistics for it.

Have you ever heard of Propaganda? This speech is set to inflamate the feelings of all and I guess it worked. The numbers are just approximates and most likely in the wrong side of over estimate. But they did their purpose. I can see the US is already denying the numbers. Ah, propaganda! Got to love it. :D

But I bet he have unemployment and his New York must be as seedy and full of slums as the one in OTL, same as the London in ours. Still it was just Propaganda. And it worked all right, as i can see.

[Glen]

For those who are curious...

Carnaval in New Granada Starts February 1st and runs through February 14th...yes, that's right, in 1899 Fat Tuesday fell on St Valentine's Day.

Enjoy... ;)

[perdedor99]

Well, with around 20,000 men in the Suez area, the British have around 60,000 men to cover the Home Isles, Norgestan, Greece, the Constantinople area, Aden, Palestine, Hong Kong and British East Africa. Not a lot of troops to go around. Decisions for old Bulg.

Plus he have 400,000 men on the Indian Army to cover India plus Indochina and Indonesia. Canada give him 125,000 men and close to 85,000 of them are in China or in New Zealand. New Albion give him 8,000 men and Australia a 10,000 AIF. Asia is not too bad. The Med and Africa is on a disadvantage at the get going.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Well, with around 20,000 men in the Suez area, the British have around 60,000 men to cover the Home Isles, Norgestan, Greece, the Constantinople area, Aden, Palestine, Hong Kong and British East Africa. Not a lot of troops to go around. Decisions for old Bulg.

Plus he have 400,000 men on the Indian Army to cover India plus Indochina and Indonesia. Canada give him 125,000 men and close to 85,000 of them are in China or in New Zealand. New Albion give him 8,000 men and Australia a 10,000 AIF. Asia is not too bad. The Med and Africa is on a disadvantage at the get going.

Well, Britain is going to rely more upon Greece for it's own home defense. Not many men needed for Greece. Without close air support Austria or any attacker is not going to be able to crack Greece south of Thermopylae, especially without naval superiority. Greece may only have a few thousand, but correctly deployed, Greece will make Verdun look like Lexington Green.....

Aden can be defended without being attacked. Persia is never going to be able to get troops there unless they can crack the British navy. There is virtually no infrastructure in Arabia. Any troops that make the trek are going to be starved, exhausted, at the end of supply, and totally sapped. A few battalions of entrenched Royal Marines in Aden should handle them well enough.

The Home Isles? Defend them against who? France is more likely to side with me than Austria. Germany? It's not going to want to side with Austria when it can simply fleece Austria of land. Karelia? Please. Britain need not fear sea-borne invasion.

Norgestan? Britain will send some troops, but the Skandistanis are going to do the heavy lifting there. Thus, this leaves Britain with the need to defend the Suez and Constantinople, and Gibraltar. That's really it. 60,000 men to defend two places.....

[Othniel]

We've paid Crete to scrape the Scythers. They've taken them to fortify the beaches in which it would be easy to land. They have two of the most modren Dreadnaughts leading their fleet, the Worker and the Peasent.. Also Austrian, Armenia, and Greek Socialists have joined our ranks. Both men and women were given rights to join the army and navy in 1896 and a required 6 year active duty from 17-23 has happend, with twevle years in reserve. I'm not sure on the rest of the stuff.

[DuQuense]

Canada and the US do not have Mandatory Service for all males, like Germany, Austria, and ?France?. But if War does Happen, The Enlistment Rates in Both Countries will Go Skyhigh. The prewar Militarilies only have to hold for the first few months

[perdedor99]

Canada and the US do not have Mandatory Service for all males, like Germany, Austria, and ?France?. But if War does Happen, The Enlistment Rates in Both Countries will Go Skyhigh. The prewar Militarilies only have to hold for the first few months

Still, how you are goin to move that forces? And they will not be inmediatly available. There is a thing called basic training that takes about three to four months. Then the time you create a unit and made it a cohesive one takes a while. At least a year or more before you see the first units of the new army ready to be send overseas. or sent them to the slaughter house without enough training and unit cohesion. I don't mind killing unprepared soldiers. An public opinion in a democracy is a killer. National Guards not included in this.

[perdedor99]

Well, Britain is going to rely more upon Greece for it's own home defense. Not many men needed for Greece. Without close air support Austria or any attacker is not going to be able to crack Greece south of Thermopylae, especially without naval superiority. Greece may only have a few thousand, but correctly deployed, Greece will make Verdun look like Lexington Green.....

Aden can be defended without being attacked. Persia is never going to be able to get troops there unless they can crack the British navy. There is virtually no infrastructure in Arabia. Any troops that make the trek are going to be starved, exhausted, at the end of supply, and totally sapped. A few battalions of entrenched Royal Marines in Aden should handle them well enough.

The Home Isles? Defend them against who? France is more likely to side with me than Austria. Germany? It's not going to want to side with Austria when it can simply fleece Austria of land. Karelia? Please. Britain need not fear sea-borne invasion.

Norgestan? Britain will send some troops, but the Skandistanis are going to do the heavy lifting there. Thus, this leaves Britain with the need to defend the Suez and Constantinople, and Gibraltar. That's really it. 60,000 men to defend two places.....

Still, Greece will fall. At most the Greek Army is not bigger than 100,000 men and the area could be taken by brute force. And yes it will be Verdun but most likley the size with the less troops will lose.

Aden you will be surprised. Galba actually came up with a very good plan. It will fall. Fairly easy it only a couple of battalions= 2,000 to 3,000 men tops. defending.

Is not historical to leave the Home Isles undefended so that leaves at least a couple of thousands in duty in the Islands.

A bunch of troops in Constantinople and Gibraltar. Gibraltar is unattainable at the beginning of the war. Constantinople is fairly easy to take and you be wasting forces in defending the city. Just capture the entrance to the Straits or mine them and your forces will starve eventually. 20,000 men surrendering will be like Kuts in 1915. Not good news to your nations' morale.

No mention of British East Africa? I guess you are giving the area as lost already. Good. :D

[Bulgaroktonos]

Still, Greece will fall. At most the Greek Army is not bigger than 100,000 men and the area could be taken by brute force. And yes it will be Verdun but most likley the size with the less troops will lose.

I don't know. I simply cannot see an army, no matter how big, being able to march through Thermopylae (or that goat path of Spartan ill-fortune), into the teeth of prepared defenses with supporting machinegun nests, mines, and heavy artillery. The Pass can hold only a few people across.........

Aden you will be surprised. Galba actually came up with a very good plan. It will fall. Fairly easy it only a couple of battalions= 2,000 to 3,000 men tops. defending.

I'll be interested to see it.

Is not historical to leave the Home Isles undefended so that leaves at least a couple of thousands in duty in the Islands.

I think you understood what I meant. ;) I'll have a few thousand, maybe as many as 10k, but not many.

A bunch of troops in Constantinople and Gibraltar. Gibraltar is unattainable at the beginning of the war. Constantinople is fairly easy to take and you be wasting forces in defending the city. Just capture the entrance to the Straits or mine them and your forces will starve eventually. 20,000 men surrendering will be like Kuts in 1915. Not good news to your nations' morale.

True on Constantinople. As long as Russia is out of the war, I suppose it serves little purpose. We shall see.

And East Africa? Lost cause. Why fight for land with no strategic value?

[Lauranthalas]

And East Africa? Lost cause. Why fight for land with no strategic value?
why then are you hanging on it?

[Glen]

why then are you hanging on it?

Ah, the Russians looking to buy?

Russian East Africa...too bad the Greeks fell apart; it would have made for an interesting Africa map, what with a Greek West Africa and a Russian East Africa. ;)

[Lauranthalas]

Ah, the Russians looking to buy?

Russian East Africa...too bad the Greeks fell apart; it would have made for an interesting Africa map, what with a Greek West Africa and a Russian East Africa. ;)
I dont want east africa. I dont have the navy to defend areas that aint border to "sweet mother Russia"

[Bulgaroktonos]

As for Greece....even today there are very few roads running north to south through the area of Thermopylae/Lamia/etc. One on the east and one on the west coast. The rest are all small arteries. This does not bode well for invaders, as they are restricted to two routes of advance that do not include marching over some of the most mountainous terrain in Europe.

I still debate the ability of Austria to crack the Greek fortress.....even if they break through Thermopylae or near Arta on the west coast, they must still contend with Corinth and the inability to land on the entire Peloponnesian coast.....

[Imajin]

I say Greece will be a large challenge to any invader, and it may be a better idea for said invader to go after more important targets such as Suez, Malta, or Constantinople, rather than waste men at Greece (and perhaps Greece can be gained in a peace treaty anyway)

[perdedor99]

As for Greece....even today there are very few roads running north to south through the area of Thermopylae/Lamia/etc. One on the east and one on the west coast. The rest are all small arteries. This does not bode well for invaders, as they are restricted to two routes of advance that do not include marching over some of the most mountainous terrain in Europe.

I still debate the ability of Austria to crack the Greek fortress.....even if they break through Thermopylae or near Arta on the west coast, they must still contend with Corinth and the inability to land on the entire Peloponnesian coast.....

I'm not saying it will be easy or fast. Just saying it will fall eventually. By 1901 perhaps at earliest. :D Like you say the slaughter will rival and pass Verdun by many. And let's see with the plan Aussey comes up with. Galba's one for Aden was very creative and I think he could actually capture the place. Maybe Aussey can do the same.

[Bulgaroktonos]

I'm not saying it will be easy or fast. Just saying it will fall eventually. By 1901 perhaps at earliest. :D Like you say the slaughter will rival and pass Verdun by many. And let's see with the plan Aussey comes up with. Galba's one for Aden was very creative and I think he could actually capture the place. Maybe Aussey can do the same.

Hmmm....perhaps my over-confidence in the impeneratability of my dominions will be my undoing.....

[perdedor99]

I say Greece will be a large challenge to any invader, and it may be a better idea for said invader to go after more important targets such as Suez, Malta, or Constantinople, rather than waste men at Greece (and perhaps Greece can be gained in a peace treaty anyway)

Why, Imajin, a very good idea. The problem is leaving a base in the area could bide problems. At least Greece up to the past need to be assaulted to tie forces there. But Constantinople is a sure target. Is so ripe in their present location that is just almost a present waiting to be taken. Malta I'm sorry to say is almost impossible to take due to the Royal Damn Navy. And Suez will be another Verdun. But it will fall. After maybe 60,000 casualties IMO.

[Imajin]

For Malta, assuming the attacker is or is allied with Austria (bases in Sicily), if the attacker's navy can get a victory over the naval forces in Malta alone, they could probably land troops on the island before British reinforcements arrive.

[perdedor99]

For Malta, assuming the attacker is or is allied with Austria (bases in Sicily), if the attacker's navy can get a victory over the naval forces in Malta alone, they could probably land troops on the island before British reinforcements arrive.

Imajin, you sly dog! I hope you are on my side. ;) still it depends of the strenght of the Royal Damn Navy , and they have more ships than half the world together it seems. :D Difficult but it could be done. The problem I see is the British coming back and starving that garrison to surrender. Still makes the war longer.

[Condottiero]

I will be again on holidays on the second half of August. I hope hostilities will not start until our September ;-)

[Glen]

I will be again on holidays on the second half of August. I hope hostilities will not start until our September ;-)

That would have them start sometime around June 1899.

Don't know if the dogs of war will wait that long...it appears all we can do to keep the peace til spring... ;)

[DuQuense]

A bunch of troops in Constantinople and Gibraltar. Gibraltar is unattainable at the beginning of the war. Constantinople is fairly easy to take and you be wasting forces in defending the city. Just capture the entrance to the Straits or mine them and your forces will starve eventually. 20,000 men surrendering will be like Kuts in 1915. Not good news to your nations' morale.

In the 1100's when the Templars besieged Jerusalem it took 10 years to starve out the Defenders, when the Arabs returned the favor in the 1200's it took 12 years.

In 1900 OTL some 40-45% of London [inside official city limit] was still open Farmland and as late as 1940 the same was true of Washington DC.

If Constantinople can still pull in produce from the surrounding areas, It would take years to starve it out.


When the British took the Spanish Fortress of Gibraltar in the 1740's they did so by scaling the cliff on the sea side. British Marines talk of this like American Marines talk of Tripoli, or Guadalcanal [like it was just Yesterday] , Any one know what the British are doing to prevent a repeat performance.

Bulg
I had the Austrians building Forts in the Ethiopian Mountain Passes [not finished in time to stop the Draka] ?What did the Brits do with these.? And ?What has Britain been doing about the native Ethiopian Army? may not be able to stop the Draka, but slow them down a little.

[perdedor99]

In the 1100's when the Templars besieged Jerusalem it took 10 years to starve out the Defenders, when the Arabs returned the favor in the 1200's it took 12 years.

In 1900 OTL some 40-45% of London [inside official city limit] was still open Farmland and as late as 1940 the same was true of Washington DC.

If Constantinople can still pull in produce from the surrounding areas, It would take years to starve it out.


When the British took the Spanish Fortress of Gibraltar in the 1740's they did so by scaling the cliff on the sea side. British Marines talk of this like American Marines talk of Tripoli, or Guadalcanal [like it was just Yesterday] , Any one know what the British are doing to prevent a repeat performance.

Bulg
I had the Austrians building Forts in the Ethiopian Mountain Passes [not finished in time to stop the Draka] ?What did the Brits do with these.? And ?What has Britain been doing about the native Ethiopian Army? may not be able to stop the Draka, but slow them down a little.

Constantinople in 1400 already has very big problem in regard to potable water. After thirteen years IMO they still have big problems due to the explotion in population. The water IIRC was very polluted by 1453 due to the big population in the area. In OTL the water came from as far away as 20 to 30 kms. Just cut their water supply and the city will fall. In a couple of weeks they will be drinking their own piss and the civilians will not be very happy, not being british and all.

Gibraltar too far from any close base. IMO a waste and a defeat.

they build the forts, they will fall. The Ethiopian army must likely will be slowed down itself by the refugees running for the coast. Already have contingency plans before hand. With Ethiopia being depopulated, first by the emigration of the whites and the colonials after the defeat of the Austrians and them by the Draka in their forced relocation of serfs to the Domination their army must be very small and as soon as they see the British pulling out their morale will go to hell. Sorry to say they must remember the hell six months has been under the Draka, so you think a soldier's first thing on his mind will be the country while his wife and kids are running for their life in the direction of the coast?

[Bulgaroktonos]

Constantinople in 1400 already has very big problem in regard to potable water. After thirteen years IMO they still have big problems due to the explotion in population. The water IIRC was very polluted by 1453 due to the big population in the area. In OTL the water came from as far away as 20 to 30 kms. Just cut their water supply and the city will fall. In a couple of weeks they will be drinking their own piss and the civilians will not be very happy, not being british and all.

Gibraltar too far from any close base. IMO a waste and a defeat.

they build the forts, they will fall. The Ethiopian army must likely will be slowed down itself by the refugees running for the coast. Already have contingency plans before hand. With Ethiopia being depopulated, first by the emigration of the whites and the colonials after the defeat of the Austrians and them by the Draka in their forced relocation of serfs to the Domination their army must be very small and as soon as they see the British pulling out their morale will go to hell. Sorry to say they must remember the hell six months has been under the Draka, so you think a soldier's first thing on his mind will be the country while his wife and kids are running for their life in the direction of the coast?

But at the same time, those Ethiopian soldiers will fight to the death to defend every inch of ground and their families. Britain has more or less finished the forts, but they arent designed to hold Draka for long. THe primary defenses are on the coast. It's a big rearguard action. Britain is going to try and save as many people as it can, but it won't be enough. Most of the surviving British and Ethiopian troops will go to either Suez or Aden, as it is unlikely both have fallen.....

[perdedor99]

But at the same time, those Ethiopian soldiers will fight to the death to defend every inch of ground and their families. Britain has more or less finished the forts, but they arent designed to hold Draka for long. THe primary defenses are on the coast. It's a big rearguard action. Britain is going to try and save as many people as it can, but it won't be enough. Most of the surviving British and Ethiopian troops will go to either Suez or Aden, as it is unlikely both have fallen.....

I disagree in regard to the Ethiopians. As soon as they see a withdraw it will turn into a rout to save their families. Their main concern will be their families and get them out of Ethiopia. Just six years under the British will not give them a lot of trust on the British IMO. You see them fighting to the dead, for what, so their families die from hunger if they win because there is not a provider? And if they lose they will be slaves?

As soon as the see the British moving back it will bring back memories of 1892 all over again. Trust me, some will stay but a big chunk of the Ethiopian army will be running for the coast and your withdraw will be a mess with your roads clogged with refugees running for the coast.

[Bulgaroktonos]

I disagree in regard to the Ethiopians. As soon as they see a withdraw it will turn into a rout to save their families. Their main concern will be their families and get them out of Ethiopia. Just six years under the British will not give them a lot of trust on the British IMO. You see them fighting to the dead, for what, so their families die from hunger if they win because there is not a provider? And if they lose they will be slaves?

As soon as the see the British moving back it will bring back memories of 1892 all over again. Trust me, some will stay but a big chunk of the Ethiopian army will be running for the coast and your withdraw will be a mess with your roads clogged with refugees running for the coast.

I'd say our closest analogy to the Draka in Ethiopia is Israel in 1948. I'm willing to hedge my bets and say the Israelis were going to fight to the death against the Arabs. They were faced with annihilation and they knew it. The Ethiopians know it too.

The refugees are going to start the moment the war begins. They are going to pour out of British East Africa into Somalia, and Somalia and Ethiopia are going to be the last places to fall. Somalia first then Ethiopia. Thus, while the refugees will be a problem, they will mostly be away from the front lines by the time the Draka reach Ethiopia. I would say that if you knew your wife and kid were going to be enslaved, raped, or killed by the Draka if you and your friends flee the front lines, you would fight your damnedest to hold them back.

I would say the Ethiopians have a great love for the British, as it was the British pulling htem out of Ethiopia to save their families, it was the British who liberated them from the evil Draka. Just as the Poles initially loved the Soviets, so too will the Ethiopians love the British.....

[perdedor99]

But at the same time, those Ethiopian soldiers will fight to the death to defend every inch of ground and their families. Britain has more or less finished the forts, but they arent designed to hold Draka for long. THe primary defenses are on the coast. It's a big rearguard action. Britain is going to try and save as many people as it can, but it won't be enough. Most of the surviving British and Ethiopian troops will go to either Suez or Aden, as it is unlikely both have fallen.....

I still can agree the King's African Rifle Regiment from Kenya will fight very well. They have not suffered the indignities of live under the Draka and they trust the British after coming with them from the same TL.

[perdedor99]

sent your defensive plan to Glen. I sent my plan yesterday. let's see what he decides. Good luck in trying to hold me. :D

[Bulgaroktonos]

sent your defensive plan to Glen. I sent my plan yesterday. let's see what he decides. Good luck in trying to hold me. :D

Oh, I know I won't hold you. I just want some of your guys to die. More of yours than mine........

And hey, I haven't even drawn up a defensive plan yet.......

[perdedor99]

Oh, I know I won't hold you. I just want some of your guys to die. More of yours than mine........

And hey, I haven't even drawn up a defensive plan yet.......

Good luck. Most likely will be serfs anyway. :D

[Othniel]

Hmm.. most of my guys are in the Northern Gabon, Equaloral Guenea, for the oil you understand... Should be intresting if you pentrate as far as Cameroon. Once you get out of the Jungle I see problems for the Drakans in mass, only because of the armored advantage....

[Glen]

sent your defensive plan to Glen. I sent my plan yesterday. let's see what he decides. Good luck in trying to hold me. :D

Yes, do send your plans. But I am not going to say anything about them until there is actual fighting.

One thing I will say about a rearguard action in East Africa. If the British show a BIG effort to evacuate civilians from the war zone, then I think the Ethiopians fight like lions, to the death. If they don't, then I think the Ethiopians bug out and try and get their families out themselves.

We'll see....

[Ward]

Has anyone build heavy the Air aircraft yet , if so in what year,

[perdedor99]

Has anyone build heavy the Air aircraft yet , if so in what year,

I think we agreed in the US in 1903 but with a war going on maybe by late 1901 or 1902? or maybe a Drummon equivalnet in Austral in 1902?

[Glen]

Right. No heavier than air this year.

[Ward]

Right. No heavier than air this year.


Just checking I did not know if I missed something.

[perdedor99]

hey bulg, change the date. This week is February. Next week is March.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Done and done.

[Othniel]

I think we agreed in the US in 1903 but with a war going on maybe by late 1901 or 1902? or maybe a Drummon equivalnet in Austral in 1902?
The wright brothers started working on heavy than air flight in 1899. I think I mentioned New Ablionian work in 1894. I think that I was going to have a working model in 1901

[Glen]

The wright brothers started working on heavy than air flight in 1899. I think I mentioned New Ablionian work in 1894. I think that I was going to have a working model in 1901

The development of heavier than air flight seems a popular one for the 20th Century. I think we're going to have to have some ruling eventually on who develops what first, given all the contenders.

Don't worry, it won't be New Granada. ;)

[DuQuense]

Whe have the Japanese with their 1902 fiftieth year celebration and a Million Yen Prize [?Is that for anyone or just Japanese? Whe have the Orthinal's New Albions, and the Ausral's . In 1901 {OTL} French- Clement Ader beat the Wright brothers with his Steam powered Airplane, Thro only the French believe it, {Control Problems}. M Barry has posted about the Wright's Moving to the Carolinas to work on their's.

And Canada Has Hemming with his Air Powered plane that OTL 1898 made him the first man to fly HTA . powered controlled Flight. And It has Clement Ader who is Not flying rite now, Due to the Death of his time twin in France several Years ago*. But is back in the Race for the Million Yen. Hemming having dropped out to work on Air turbines for the Navy [Torpedoes]

*OOC; P99 reminded me of the 1900's rule, so I stopped My post about Ader Flying back in 1887. {I still have it, Say the Word and HTA flight is History Recorded}

I see lots of Arguing ITTL about who was First.

[Othniel]

New Ablion is more than willing to prove its model over the the Suez come war.

[Imajin]

All your airplanes shall be destroyed by the Armenian Zepplins... :p

[Condottiero]

Although I am willing to use some "crazy model planes", I think that if in this TL the Airships are so successful with lots of civilian companies, used in the army and regarded as something safe, fast and powerful, why would someone try something different and slower than an AS?

I see that probably different models will appear in different places, but as for their military usage...

[Othniel]

Although I am willing to use some "crazy model planes", I think that if in this TL the Airships are so successful with lots of civilian companies, used in the army and regarded as something safe, fast and powerful, why would someone try something different and slower than an AS?

I see that probably different models will appear in different places, but as for their military usage...
I can get an airplane to go zero to 70 in 60 ft. :D Airships are balls of floating gas...something we need to learn on how to make go up like the Hidenburg in New Ablion. (They dislike the fact that airattack is possible...makes their difficult terrian seem vunrable.

[Othniel]

All your airplanes shall be destroyed by the Armenian Zepplins... :p
Don't you mean Hindenburgs? ;)

[Condottiero]

I can get an airplane to go zero to 70 in 60 ft. :D Airships are balls of floating gas...something we need to learn on how to make go up like the Hidenburg in New Ablion. (They dislike the fact that airattack is possible...makes their difficult terrian seem vunrable.
:eek:
But that is phisically impossible!! The human body would not resist that. Airships are much safer!
:rolleyes:

[Glen]

And now for something completely different...

Wouldn't Draka in the years after the event become the sex tourism capitol of ME7? With their sexual abuse of serfs, it would be utterly easy for enterprising Draka Citizens to set up discrete sex tours for affluent but morally questionable people from all over the world.

[Othniel]

:eek:
But that is phisically impossible!! The human body would not resist that. Airships are much safer!
:rolleyes:
An American by the name of Langely built a flimsy aircraft in our atl in 1896 it got it up that high. His pilot went to the hospital, but he surived. He moved to New Ablion and is now working on a much safer model, should be testing again in 14 Months. :D

[Othniel]

And now for something completely different...

Wouldn't Draka in the years after the event become the sex tourism capitol of ME7? With their sexual abuse of serfs, it would be utterly easy for enterprising Draka Citizens to set up discrete sex tours for affluent but morally questionable people from all over the world.
Thus managing to turn anybody with chastity and viture against them.....

[Othniel]

:eek:
But that is phisically impossible!! The human body would not resist that. Airships are much safer!
:rolleyes:
The French should be devolping the Helicopter soon enough.

[Ward]

The French should be devolping the Helicopter soon enough.


lets keep it real guys .

[Othniel]

lets keep it real guys .
Helicopters were invented 1907....or was it before that? Weren't much use, but still they were there.

[Othniel]

OTL from 1887-1911
http://timelines.ws/1887_1890.HTML
http://timelines.ws/1891_1894.HTML
http://timelines.ws/1891_1894.HTML
http://timelines.ws/1898_1899.HTML
http://timelines.ws/20thcent/1900.HTML
http://timelines.ws/20thcent/1901.HTML
http://timelines.ws/20thcent/1902_1904.HTML
http://timelines.ws/20thcent/1905_1907.HTML
http://timelines.ws/20thcent/1908_1909.HTML
http://timelines.ws/20thcent/1910_1911.HTML

It appears Janaruary 12th, 1908 that the first long distance wireless message was sent from the Effiel Tower.

[Othniel]

History of Aircraft:

1878 Jul 3, John Wise flew the first dirigible in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
(HN, 7/3/98)

1883 Aug 28, John Montgomery (d.1911 in a glider crash) made the first manned, controlled flight in the US in his "Gull" glider, whose design was inspired by watching birds.
(SFC, 6/5/98, p.A23)(SFCM, 2/6/05, p.3)

1890 Apr 6, Anthony Herman Gerard Fokker, aircraft pioneer, was born in Holland.
(MC, 4/6/02)

1892 Apr 6, Donald Wills Douglas, US aircraft pioneer (McConnell Douglas), was born.
(MC, 4/6/02)

1897 Jun 14, Dr. Karl Wolfert and his mechanic were killed in Germany when their dirigible, powered by a Daimler car engine, crashed on its 4th flight.
(ON, 3/03, p.10)

1897 Jul 14, Swede Saloman Andrée (43) and 2 accomplices, Knute Fraenkle and Nils Strindberg, in the Ornen balloon were forced down after 64 hours in the first expedition to fly by balloon across the North Pole. Their attempt to return ended on White Island. Their fate was only discovered Aug 5-6, 1930, by Norwegian whalers.
(HNQ, 5/22/01)(ON, 11/01, p.11)

1897 Jul 24, Amelia Earhart was born. She was the first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic and disappeared in the South Pacific while trying to fly around the world. Her sister Muriel (d.1998 at 98) wrote a biography of Amelia titled: "Courage Is the Price."
(SFC, 3/1/97, p.A8)(SFC, 3/6/98, p.E2)(HN, 7/24/02)

1897 Sep 18, Alberto Santos-Dumont crashed his 1st motorized dirigible into trees at the Zoological Gardens in Paris.
(ON, 3/03, p.10)

1897 Sep 20, Alberto Santos-Dumont successfully flew his repaired motorized dirigible around the Zoological Gardens in Paris.
(ON, 3/03, p.10)

1897 Nov 3, David Schwarz of Austria crashed his 156-foot aluminum powered airship with 2 propellers on its maiden flight.
(ON, 3/03, p.11)

1900 Jul 2, Count Ferdinand Adolf Heinrich August von Zeppelin (1838-1917) made the 1st successful flight of his lighter-than-air ship LZ-1 in Friedrichshafen, Germany. The 400 foot craft stayed aloft 17 minutes before it crashed.
(AHM, 1/97)(WSJ, 2/120/00, p.A1)(ON, 3/03, p.11)

1900 Oct, The Wright Brothers began active flying experiments at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina.
(SSFC, 12/14/03, p.D3)

1901 Jul 13, Santos-Dumont flew his powered dirigible around the Eiffel Tower but failed to make it in an allotted half hour time frame to win a 100,000 franc prize.
(ON, 3/03, p.11)

1901 Aug 8, Santos-Dumont flew his powered dirigible around the Eiffel Tower a 2nd time but sprang a leak and caught suspension wires in his propeller blades.
(ON, 3/03, p.11)

1901 Oct 19, Alberto Santos-Dumont successfully circled Eiffel Tower in his Santos-Dumont No. 6 dirigible within a half hour and won a 100,000 franc prize. An initial ruling said that he failed by 40 seconds because the race wasn’t finished until he touched ground. A 2nd vote granted him the win. This proved the airship maneuverable.
(ON, 3/03, p.12)

1902 In Pittsburg, Texas, Rev. Burrell Cannon (d.1922), itinerant Baptist minister and inventor, built his Ezekial Airship and reportedly flew it for a short distance at a 12 foot altitude. The craft was destroyed on a rail car while enroute to the St. Louis World Fair.
(WSJ, 11/20/02, p.A1)

1903 Mar 23, The Wright brothers obtained an airplane patent.
(HN, 3/23/98)

1903 Mar 31, New Zealand aviator Richard Pearse flew a self-made, bamboo-framed, mono-winged airplane in Waitohi.
(NW, 3/17/03, p.20)

1903 Dec 17, The Wright brothers' Flyer I flew for 12 seconds in the first airplane flight at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. The brothers were the sons of a Dayton, Ohio, bishop (Church of the United Brethren). Orville Wright made the first powered, controlled and sustained flight. Orville, lying prone at the plane's controls, flew a distance of 120 feet in 12 seconds. Wilbur ran beside Flyer's wing tip until it was airborne to keep the wing from dragging in the sand. Four sustained flights were made on this day. The 4th flight lasted fifty-nine seconds. The momentous events of that day received little press attention, since the reticent Wright brothers feared their ideas would be stolen by rival aviators. It was not until 1908, after making many refinements to their flying machine, that the Wrights embarked on a series of public demonstrations that finally earned them worldwide acclaim. A one-hour PBS documentary covered their life as part of "The American Experience."
(WSJ, 2/8/96, p.A-12)(AP, 12/17/97)(HNPD, 12/17/98)(SSFC, 12/14/03, p.D3)(SSFC, 12/14/03, p.D3)(SFEC, 9/26/99, p.B8)

1904 Sep 15, Wilbur Wright made his 1st controlled half-circle while in flight.
(http://www.centennialofflight.gov/user/fact_sept.htm)

1905 Apr 12, French Dufaux brothers tested a helicopter.
(MC, 4/12/02)

1906 Mar 3, Vuia I aircraft, built by Romanian Traja Vuia, was tested in France.
(SC, 3/3/02)

1906 May 22, Orville and Wilbur Wright were awarded U.S. Patent 821,393 for "new and useful improvement in Flying Machines." They had hired a patent attorney to refine their 1903 application. The first successful powered flight of the Wright Flyer took place on December 17, 1903.
(HNQ, 3/19/01)

1907 May 13, The 1st helicopter was piloted by French investor Paul Cornu. The copter hovered a foot off the ground for 20 seconds. [see Apr 12, 1905]
(MC, 7/29/02)(SSFC, 12/14/03, p.D2)

1907 Jun 1, Frank A. Whittle, England inventor (jet engine), was born.
(MC, 6/1/02)

1907 Jul 1, World's 1st air force established as part of the US Army.
(MC, 7/1/02)

1907 Jul 29, The 1st helicopter ascent in Douai, France.
(MC, 7/29/02)

1908 May 22, The Wright brothers registered their flying machine for a U.S. patent.
(HN, 5/22/98)

1908 Mar 21, Frenchman Henri Farman carried a passenger in a bi-plane for the first time.
(HN, 3/21/98)

1908 May 14, 1st passenger flight in an airplane.
(MC, 5/14/02)

1908 May 22, The Wright brothers registered their flying machine for a U.S. patent.
(HN, 5/22/98)

1908 Sep 3, Orville Wright began two weeks of flight trials that impressed onlookers with his complete control of his new Type A Military Flyer. In addition to setting an altitude record of 310 feet and an endurance record of more than one hour, he had carried aloft the first military observer, Lieutenant Frank Lahm.
(HNPD, 9/16/98)

1908 Sep 9, Orville Wright made the 1st 1-hr airplane flight at Fort Myer, Va.
(MC, 9/9/01)

1908 Sep 17, Orville Wright’s passenger on a test flight was Lieutenant Thomas Selfridge. They were circling the landing field at Fort Myer, Va., when a crack developed in the blade of the aircraft’s propeller. Wright lost control of the Flyer and the biplane plunged to the ground. Selfridge became powered flight’s first fatality, and Wright was seriously injured in the crash. But despite the tragic mishap, the War Department awarded the contract for the first military aircraft to Wright.
(HNPD, 9/16/98)

1909 Jan 9, The Silver Dart made the 1st manned flight in Canada. It was funded by the Aerial Experiment Association, founded by Alexander and Mabel Bell.
(ON, 1/03, p.5)

1909 Jul 27, Orville Wright tested the U.S. Army's first airplane, flying himself and a passenger for 1 hour, 12 minutes and 40 seconds over Fort Myer, Virginia.
(AP, 7/27/97)(HN, 7/27/02)(MC, 7/27/02)

1909 Jul 30, The Wright Brothers delivered their 1st military plane to the army.
(MC, 7/30/02)

1909 Aug 2, The US Army Air Corps formed as the Army took 1st delivery from the Wright Brothers.
(MC, 8/2/02)

1909 Oct 2, Orville Wright set an altitude record, flying at 1,600 feet. This exceeded Hubert Latham’s previous record of 508 feet.
(HN, 10/2/98)

1909 Nov 23, Wright brothers formed a million-dollar corporation for the commercial manufacture of airplanes.
(HN, 11/23/98)

1909 Dec 28, The first manned, controlled, powered flight in the whole continent of
Africa and the entire southern hemisphere was successfully carried out by the Frenchman
Albert Kimmerling (d.6/12/1912) at East London, South Africa using a Voisin bi-plane.
(Internet)

1909 The Wright brothers sold a Military Flyer to the Signal Corps for $30,000.
(WSJ, 5/20/03, p.D5)

1910 Mar 28, The first seaplane took off from water at Martinques, France.
(HN, 3/28/98)

1910 Apr 28, The first night air flight was performed by Claude Grahame-White in England.
(HN, 4/28/98)

1910 May 10, The 1st aircraft air display was held at Hendon, England.
(MC, 5/10/02)

1910 Jun 2, Charles Stewart Rolls, one of the founders of Rolls-Royce, becomes the first man to fly an airplane nonstop across the English Channel both ways. Tragically, he became Britain's first aircraft fatality the following month when his biplane broke up in midair.
(HN, 6/2/00)

1910 Aug 20, The 1st shot fired from an airplane was during a test flight over Brooklyn's Sheepshead Bay.
(WSJ, 5/20/03, p.D5)

1910 Sep 27, 1st test flight of a twin-engine airplane was made in France.
(MC, 9/27/01)

1910 Oct 23, Blanche S. Scott became the first woman to make a solo, public airplane flight, reaching an altitude of 12 feet at a park in Fort Wayne, Indiana.
(AP, 10/23/00)

1910 Nov 14, Lieutenant Eugene Ely, U.S. Navy, was the first to take off in an airplane from the deck of a ship. He flew from the Birmingham at Hampton Roads to Norfolk. It was a Curtiss plane flown by Eugene Ely, a company exhibition pilot, that made the first successful takeoff from a Navy ship.
(HN, 11/14/98)

1910 Dec 31, John B. Moisant and Arch Hoxsey, two of America's foremost aviators died in separate plane crashes. Moisant died in a plane crash in New Orleans.
(HN, 12/31/98)(HN, 7/31/01)

1911 Jan 18, Naval aviation was born when pilot Eugene B. Ely flew a Curtis Pusher biplane onto the deck of the USS Pennsylvania in San Francisco harbor. [see Nov 14, 1910]
(SFC, 7/2/96, p.a15)(SFC, 5/7/97, p.A15)(AP, 1/18/98)(SFC, 6/5/98, p.A19)

1911 Jan 26, Glenn Curtiss piloted the 1st successful hydroplane in San Diego.
(MC, 1/26/02)

1911 Jan, A pair of U.S. Army aviators dropped the first live bomb. The Mexican Revolution gave the opportunity to use the airplane in actual combat. Airplanes had already begun to replace balloons for battlefield observation.
(HNQ, 7/16/00)

1911 Feb 17, The 1st hydroplane flight to & from a ship was made by Glenn Curtiss in San Diego.
(MC, 2/17/02)

1911 Apr 12, Pierre Prier completed the first non-stop London-Paris flight in three hours and 56 minutes.
(HN, 4/12/99)

1911 May 16, Zeppelin "Deutschland" was wrecked at Dusseldorf.
(MC, 5/16/02)

1911 Aug 3, Airplanes were used for the first time in a military capacity when Italian planes reconnoitered Turkish lines near Tripoli.
(HN, 8/3/98)

1911 Aug 31, Anthony Fokker's demonstrated the aircraft "Snip."
(MC, 8/31/01)

1911 Sep 1, M. Fourny set a world aircraft distance record of 720 km (447 mls).
(SC, 9/1/02)

1911 Sep 9, An airmail route opened between London and Windsor.
(HN, 9/9/98)

1911 Sep 17, Cigar-smoking Calbraith Perry Rodgers set off from Sheepshead Bay, New York, on the first flight across America. Rodgers, sponsored by the Vin Fiz grape drink company, flew the fragile Wright B biplane in pursuit of a $50,000 prize offered to the first person to make a transcontinental flight in 30 days or less. Rodgers failed to win the prize because his 4,321-mile flight took 84 days—of which only 3 days, 10 hours and 4 minutes was actual flying time! By the time he landed at Long Beach, California, on November 5, Rodgers had made 70 crash landings, suffered numerous minor injuries and had rebuilt his Vin Fiz so completely that only one strut and the rudder were its original equipment.
(HNPD, 9/18/98)

1911 Nov 1, Italian planes performed the first aerial bombing on Tanguira oasis in Libya. Lt. Giulio Cavotti dropped a hand grenade on an oasis outside of Tripoli. In 2001 Sven Lindqvist authored "A History of Bombing."
(HN, 11/1/98)(SFC, 4/22/01, BR p.3)

1911 Nov 5, Italy attacked Turkish North-Africa (Libya), and took Tripoli and Cyrenaica. First use of a plane dropping bombs. [see Nov 1]
(MC, 11/5/01)

1911 The US Navy acquired its first airplane, the A-1 Triad.
(HT, 4/97, p.60)

http://timelines.ws/subjects/Airlinestuff.HTML

[Othniel]

Look as I see it some type of fighter will be needed to combat other aircraft (Airships) as well as protect the specialized bombers that will come in the next 10 to 20 years. Anti-airship guns as well as aircraft built for hit and run scenarios will meet greater and greater needs as time goes by and I think we need to be ready to deal with that in ME7. :)

Naval aviation's birthday came some years after the Wright Brothers' feat, on 8 May 1911. On that date, Captain Washington Irving Chambers, the Navy's first officer in charge of aviation, ordered the Navy's first airplane, the Curtiss A-1 Triad. The occasion had been preceded by a number of historic events that demonstrated in convincing fashion the practicality of taking aviation to sea. On 14 November 1910, civilian pilot Eugene Ely flew a Curtiss pusher airplane from a wooden platform on the bow of the USS Birmingham (CL-2) at anchor in Hampton Roads, Virginia. He followed that performance on 18 January 1911 with the world's first arrested landing on a specially built platform on the USS Pennsylvania (ACR-4) in San Francisco Bay. On 17 February, Glenn Curtiss provided the final, convincing demonstration. Ably assisted by the officer who would become Naval Aviator Number One, Lieutenant Theodore G. Ellyson, Curtiss landed alongside the Pennsylvania, was hoisted aboard and subsequently lowered back into the water, and then flew away. All of this delighted and astonished the ship's crew, which had manned the rails to witness the historic event.

The years leading to the entry of the United States into World War I were ones of experimentation, testing, gradual expansion, and hard work by a small but dedicated band of Navy and Marine Corps aviators. Though ill prepared to fight a war, aviation units were formed and deployed overseas, the first arriving in France in June 1917 under the command of Navy Lieutenant Kenneth Whiting. Meanwhile, unprecedented expansion occurred at home and abroad, with the number of planes, pilots, and air stations growing at a steady rate. The long-distance flying boat emerged as the major technical advance for the Navy, with aircrews flying patrols in Curtiss-built boats from England, Ireland, and France. Lieutenant (junior grade) David S. Ingalls became the Navy's only ace during the war, with five victories.

Following the war, the Navy's success with flying boats led to the design of the Navy-Curtiss NC boats, one of which, the NC-4, commanded by Lieutenant Commander A. C. Read, completed the first transatlantic crossing in May 1919. In the years to come, air racers and record breakers also grabbed the headlines, with the Navy and Marine Corps having their share of crowd pleasers. Led by perennial favorite Major Al Williams—known for his record-breaking performances in Curtiss-designed racers—Navy pilots David Rittenhouse, Rutledge Irvine, George Cuddihy, and Ralph Ofstie, as well as Marine First Lieutenant Christian F. Schilt, Medal of Honor recipient for heroism in Nicaragua, upheld their services' honor in annual competitions with Army pilots in the Curtiss Marine, Pulitzer, and Schneider Cup races.

The races of the 1920s resulted in considerable technological fallout for the Navy, as engine horsepower increased dramatically, and airframe designs by Dayton-Wright, Verville-Sperry, and Curtiss became more streamlined and sophisticated. Wood, fabric, and wire biplanes gave way to streamlined, all-metal, elegant aircraft powered by massive, in-line 500-horsepower engines. They were difficult and demanding to fly, and Navy and Marine pilots often found themselves in uncharted territory, flying with courage and intuition in a regime that eventually became the province of specially trained, experienced test pilots.

[Glen]

Look as I see it some type of fighter will be needed to combat other aircraft (Airships) as well as protect the specialized bombers that will come in the next 10 to 20 years. Anti-airship guns as well as aircraft built for hit and run scenarios will meet greater and greater needs as time goes by and I think we need to be ready to deal with that in ME7. :)

Whatever. Start developing it in 1900 or thereafter, as far as I'm concerned.

However, y'all still need to figure out how to give the 'pride of place' to one country for developing it...

[Othniel]

Whatever. Start developing it in 1900 or thereafter, as far as I'm concerned.

However, y'all still need to figure out how to give the 'pride of place' to one country for developing it...
This war could majorly kickstart the industry at least in scouting.

[Ward]

France is testing a new rifle called the Boiese Rifle a 28mm round .

[Glen]

This war could majorly kickstart the industry at least in scouting.


Not really. Lighter than air, given the level of development we've allowed it, will likely remain faster and more reliable for the duration of our Great War.

Now, shortly thereafter, we could see some real movement and heavier than air overtaking it, especially with the head start that lighter than air avionics will give it.

[Lauranthalas]

is it possible to that time to test airships on a He basis of flight?

[Glen]

is it possible to that time to test airships on a He basis of flight?

I'm sorry, Laur, but I'm not quite following what you are asking.

Are you asking if it is possible to test airships with 'Heavier than Air' basis of flight up to 1900? If they don't get off the ground, then yes. We've already had a few failures. Successful flights, no.

Or are you asking about the use of Helium based Ligher than Air airships. We already have those.

[Lauranthalas]

I'm sorry, Laur, but I'm not quite following what you are asking.

Are you asking if it is possible to test airships with 'Heavier than Air' basis of flight up to 1900? If they don't get off the ground, then yes. We've already had a few failures. Successful flights, no.

Or are you asking about the use of Helium based Ligher than Air airships. We already have those.
I mean to take the H out of the airship and replace it with He. Are there possibilities to get enough He to deploy airships with it

(He is always lighter than air)

[Glen]

I mean to take the H out of the airship and replace it with He. Are there possibilities to get enough He to deploy airships with it

(He is always lighter than air)


Okay, here is my shaky understanding of this...

Airships are usually made to be able to utilize one or the other, not both.

Given the nature of Hydrogen versus Helium, it should theoretically be possible to fill a Helium designed airship with Hydrogen and get it to lift. The reverse is not true, as the lifting power of the same volume of Helium as Hydrogen is less.

The Americas Airships all use Helium to the best of my knowledge. The USA is the world's major producer of Helium.

[Imajin]

Is the USA selling Helium to the rest of the world? If not, they'll likely have to depend on possibly Mauriafrica (Algeria is a major helium producer), or use Hydrogen.

[Lauranthalas]

I ahve in siberia also He sources.

and H I dont wanna take because it has a high chance to make a torch out of my airship in bad weatherconditions.

my big question was if it technology is far enough to produce enough He to deploy my fleet of airships (mostly transporters)?

GF,
He is heavier than H. thus it is the other way around. not every H - zeppelin can fly with He though evere He can fly with H

[Glen]

I ahve in siberia also He sources.

But probably not enough, or certainly not enough developed sources, to launch your fleet.

and H I dont wanna take because it has a high chance to make a torch out of my airship in bad weatherconditions.

Actually, they aren't that bad.

my big question was if it technology is far enough to produce enough He to deploy my fleet of airships (mostly transporters)?

The tech is there, but I don't think that your infrastructure in Siberia is enough most likely.

In roughly the equivalent timeframe/techframe, the USA had almost a monopoly on Helium production. I suspect this remains the case in ME7.

GF,
He is heavier than H. thus it is the other way around. not every H - zeppelin can fly with He though evere He can fly with H

We're saying the same thing, Laur, but you're coming across very garbled.

Ships made to use Helium can be lifted with Hydrogen.

Ships made to use Hydrogen can't be lifted with Helium.

That is what I said before, and what you are saying now.

[Glen]

Is the USA selling Helium to the rest of the world? If not, they'll likely have to depend on possibly Mauriafrica (Algeria is a major helium producer), or use Hydrogen.

As far as I am concerned, the USA is selling Helium worldwide. You'll have to ask Oth about Helium production in Mauriafrica, though I don't think it will be as much as American production.

[Imajin]

A question on Jerusalem. Has the Persian Government continued it's promise at Manzikert to tolerate the Armenian populations (rather large in 1400) in Jerusalem?

[Othniel]

As far as I am concerned, the USA is selling Helium worldwide. You'll have to ask Oth about Helium production in Mauriafrica, though I don't think it will be as much as American production.
We have a small market. Logically I'd say the French are buying..maybe the armenians. Not enough to dent the American Market, and even now they think of buying us out....

[Glen]

While we in Mauriafrica seem to be gathering the more religous and corperate of types of Christians moving from Europe, and from the small christian communities in Damascus.

Yes, and the more ecumenical Christians seeking freedom of religious expression come to us.

[Othniel]

Yes, and the more ecumenical Christians seeking freedom of religious expression come to us.
We don't force anybody to worship, we just attract those wishing to defend the Christidom.

[Imajin]

And those Greek Orthodox Christians who don't want to live under Anglican British rule come to Armenia-Trebizond... we have plenty of empty land, after all :D

[Glen]

We don't force anybody to worship, we just attract those wishing to defend the Christidom.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply otherwise.

[Glen]

And those Greek Orthodox Christians who don't want to live under Anglican British rule come to Armenia-Trebizond... we have plenty of empty land, after all :D

And those who want to get as far away from the craziness of Europe go to Tampa in lovely New Granada....

[Imajin]

http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=18834
My first thought on reading that thread was "Coup in Mauriafrica?" :D

[Othniel]

http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=18834
My first thought on reading that thread was "Coup in Mauriafrica?" :D
Please, we are a secular goverment with a religious base.

[DuQuense]

Ships made to use Helium can be lifted with Hydrogen.

Ships made to use Hydrogen can't be lifted with Helium.

You can also mix the two, IIRC a 1/3 He mix will make your H non explosive, You sacrifice a little lifting for safety, and it is less expensive than a pure He ship.

[Glen]

You can also mix the two, IIRC a 1/3 He mix will make your H non explosive, You sacrifice a little lifting for safety, and it is less expensive than a pure He ship.

They'd still probably have to have that ration in mind when built. They'd be able to go to full Hydrogen, but not full Helium.

[perdedor99]

In regard to Draka being the sex capital of this world, How you think we know so much about your forces? I bet a lot of the sexual practices of the tourist will be frown by their nations. Blackmail, anyone? :D

[Othniel]

Glen, very nice. BTW whom did the US appoint as the American Advisor to New Ablion? Taft, McKinely? or some unknown?

[Glen]

"We are violating the gentlemen rules that have rule warfare since the beginning of time. I hate this new world." lamented the Admiral while his aide left the room to deliver the order.

Hmm, interesting, interesting. Of course, those who do violate those gentlemen's rules of honour will be long remembered for it...unkindly.

I can tell you one thing, the New Granadans take honour very, very seriously. Even if not on the receiving end of a dishonourable act, it will certainly strain relations with them for a long, long time.

And it seems that it might strain internal relations as well. How many in the Central European Empire will chafe under acts of dishonour, and when might that lead to unrest, I wonder?

Does Aussey know that you are plotting something that would 'violate the gentlemen rules of warfare?'

[Glen]

Glen, very nice. BTW whom did the US appoint as the American Advisor to New Ablion? Taft, McKinely? or some unknown?

Thanks. In a way, I owe it all to p99. His use of Fitzhugh Lee as Archon inspired me to look the man up, and found out about his OTL Centennial speech and his being special envoy to Havana in the McKinley administration, so I thought, 'Why not New Granada?' It would be a good post, and it would sort of parallel OTL, and it would put him someplace about as far away from the Draka as you can get, which the US might want to do if they are picking his brain for insights into the Archon, which again was suggested to me by p99's posting on the subject.

As for the US appointment to New Ablion, I don't know for certain, MBarry didn't say if he had someone in particular in mind. Let me think about it. Taft would be a possibility to be certain...

[Othniel]

Thanks. In a way, I owe it all to p99. His use of Fitzhugh Lee as Archon inspired me to look the man up, and found out about his OTL Centennial speech and his being special envoy to Havana in the McKinley administration, so I thought, 'Why not New Granada?' It would be a good post, and it would sort of parallel OTL, and it would put him someplace about as far away from the Draka as you can get, which the US might want to do if they are picking his brain for insights into the Archon, which again was suggested to me by p99's posting on the subject.

As for the US appointment to New Ablion, I don't know for certain, MBarry didn't say if he had someone in particular in mind. Let me think about it. Taft would be a possibility to be certain...
Anybody out of Carnigie Steel would be nice...

[perdedor99]

Hmm, interesting, interesting. Of course, those who do violate those gentlemen's rules of honour will be long remembered for it...unkindly.

I can tell you one thing, the New Granadans take honour very, very seriously. Even if not on the receiving end of a dishonourable act, it will certainly strain relations with them for a long, long time.

And it seems that it might strain internal relations as well. How many in the Central European Empire will chafe under acts of dishonour, and when might that lead to unrest, I wonder?

Does Aussey know that you are plotting something that would 'violate the gentlemen rules of warfare?'

Of course. He just post the event if he was the one posting. I show that the old timers can consider offensive the actions that they are being obligated to do. And is not as bad as you think. But they are violating certain rules of engament.

PS. Lee is not the Archon. He's the Arch-Strategos of Draka. Like the commander of all the Drakan armies or the Chief of Staff is closer analogue.

[Glen]

Crud! That's what I get for trying to do something from memory. Thanks, I've editted the post to Arch Strategos rather than Archon.

[DuQuense]

PS. Lee is not the Archon. He's the Arch-Strategos of Draka. Like the commander of all the Drakan armies or the Chief of Staff is closer analogue.

Probably -General of the Army-, is what you want

In 1886 when whe started Sheridan {ACW} was General of the Army the pre Joint Staff position equal to todays Chief of Staff.
? Any Ideas for who {retired 1892] his replacement is,?

I think my Admiral Strong [TTL took Shantung Peninsula, OTL was Admiral in Charge of Cuba invasion] is probably in charge [Admiral of the Fleet] of the Navy.

[Condottiero]

I ahve in siberia also He sources.

and H I dont wanna take because it has a high chance to make a torch out of my airship in bad weatherconditions.

my big question was if it technology is far enough to produce enough He to deploy my fleet of airships (mostly transporters)?

GF,
He is heavier than H. thus it is the other way around. not every H - zeppelin can fly with He though evere He can fly with H
In the early XX century US was almost the ONLY He producer, I'm afraid that leaves no Algeria and no Siberia.

[Ward]

In the early XX century US was almost the ONLY He producer, I'm afraid that leaves no Algeria and no Siberia.



Question with more air ships why would Algeria not go into prouduce of HE .

It would be a sourcr of income for him .

[Othniel]

Hmm, on a very different note you guys realise that Sudan's primative population is made up of a bunch of Christian Kingdoms right? For about anouther 125 years in OTL they'd be Christian.

The Northern part would have an army like this:

The armies of Sennar were centred on heavy cavalry. The riders were armoured with chain mail while the horses were covered in thick quilts and copper headgear. These riders were armed with long broadswords as the toe stirrups they used did not permit the use of lances. These horsemen were drawn from the nobility. A greater mass of troops were infantry who were composed of slaves. These infantry would also carry swords and be armoured. The armies were a permanent standing force garrisoned in castles and forts throughout the kingdom. Reliance on a standing army meant that the armies fielded by Sennar were usually quite small, but they were highly effective against their less organized rivals.

[Imajin]

The Sudan was Christian in 1400?

There's a major error on our part....

[Othniel]

The Sudan was Christian in 1400?

There's a major error on our part....
There was a minor Islamic immigration there but they didn't convert and weren't conquered because of the actions of the Kingdom of Askum.

[DuQuense]

Originally Posted by Glen Finney
And now for something completely different...

Wouldn't Draka in the years after the event become the sex tourism capitol of ME7? With their sexual abuse of serfs, it would be utterly easy for enterprising Draka Citizens to set up discrete sex tours for affluent but morally questionable people from all over the world.

Thus managing to turn anybody with chastity and virtue against them.....

That doesn't seen to have happened OTL to Thailand...............

Question with more air ships why would Algeria not go into production of HE .

It would be a source of income for them .

I believe the equipment in 1890's would be quite expensive, but Algeria could have Imported the Equipment from the US, if it was willing to Pay that much.

[Imajin]

There was a minor Islamic immigration there but they didn't convert and weren't conquered because of the actions of the Kingdom of Askum.
So I suppose we have a problem with having the Sudan being full of radical Muslims...

I knew about Aksum and the like surviving for a time- Note that I mentioned the "Christian Kingdoms of Nubia" in MEuro...

[DuQuense]

My mind is made up: Don't confuse it with the Facts. :D

It is to late to change everything, Just put it down to a effect of the ISOTing. :rolleyes:

Stupid FACTS, :( always popping up and messing with your Great Ideas. :mad:

[Othniel]

So I suppose we have a problem with having the Sudan being full of radical Muslims...

I knew about Aksum and the like surviving for a time- Note that I mentioned the "Christian Kingdoms of Nubia" in MEuro...
I was reading through the history of the Shedanic Cultures and came across http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Sennar , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alwa , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tigray , and a few others.

The History of Ethopia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ethiopia) and Sudan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sudan) are quite intresting.

The current ruler of Ethopia is Dawit I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawit_I_of_Ethiopia), I'll find out more though, but there is certainly a negative presence against Murmaluks there...
Except heavy resistance against any invading force, especially now that they are modrenized.

See northern Sudan is starting to Arabize be the South is still very Christian in theese regards and in fact the christian influence won't stop in the north for anouther 125 years.

[Othniel]

My mind is made up: Don't confuse it with the Facts. :D

It is to late to change everything, Just put it down to a effect of the ISOTing. :rolleyes:

Stupid FACTS, :( always popping up and messing with your Great Ideas. :mad:
They could be domiated by muslim forces, however the majority of the followers are christian. If I work to continue to help theese the Draka will have problems if they attempt to invade that area.

[Imajin]

As for the Kings of Nubia and Ethiopia, it's mentioned that the Austrian Empress took the Ethiopian titles, but the ex-Emperor was granted some sort of noble status- I'd assume he'd be in either Vienna or have returned to British Ethiopia. I think we can assume the rest of the local rulers were killed off by the Austrians.

[Othniel]

As for the Kings of Nubia and Ethiopia, it's mentioned that the Austrian Empress took the Ethiopian titles, but the ex-Emperor was granted some sort of noble status- I'd assume he'd be in either Vienna or have returned to British Ethiopia. I think we can assume the rest of the local rulers were killed off by the Austrians.
That's sure to help PR.... :rolleyes:

[Imajin]

That's sure to help PR.... :rolleyes:
I suppose it can also help explain why Austria had so much trouble in the area, if there aren't as many radical muslims as we had hoped...

[Othniel]

I suppose it can also help explain why Austria had so much trouble in the area, if there aren't as many radical muslims as we had hoped...
Failure at overseas territorial policy would explain a lot.

[Glen]

So I suppose we have a problem with having the Sudan being full of radical Muslims...

I knew about Aksum and the like surviving for a time- Note that I mentioned the "Christian Kingdoms of Nubia" in MEuro...


Well, some of them came over the border from the ISOTed British Africa as I recall....

[Glen]

...okay, so say that the poor colonial policies up to the Austro-Draka War compounded with the strong Madhist force that entered the area shortly after the ISOT led to a lot of hostility and Madhist rule.

However, Oth has had a few years to start changing that.

And those Madhists aren't getting any younger...if they haven't found willing converts, then their forces may be degrading over time....

By now, perhaps the region is ripe for a Christian overthrow of the Khalifa and ready for assistance from the Mauriafricans.

[Glen]

Hey, DQ, Oth, Condi...I'd like to invite your American nations to come down to Carnaval. Don't want to get shone up by the Americans now, do ya? ;)

[Glen]

And of course, Carnaval has become a time for diplomatic visits from all sorts of nations in ME7, so anyone else who'd like to have a leader or potentate stop by for a visit, let me know.

The Welcome sign is up, and the Music is playing...

[Othniel]

We don't celebrate Carnival.

[Imajin]

Well, the King of Karelia is a bit young at this point (3, I think :p ) so he most likely won't be coming to Carnaval...

I defiantely see Empress Alexandra choosing to make a diplomatic visit to New Granada at that time, though...

[Glen]

We don't celebrate Carnival.

How about the New Ablioners?

And even if the Mauriafricans don't celebrate it, they might want to visit New Granada at that time for the opportunity to talk to other leaders who do like to join in the celebrations. Of course, that's up to you.

[Glen]

Well, the King of Karelia is a bit young at this point (3, I think :p ) so he most likely won't be coming to Carnaval...

I defiantely see Empress Alexandra choosing to make a diplomatic visit to New Granada at that time, though...

Sounds good...you want to write something or shall I?

Also, how old is the Empress Alexandra now?

[Imajin]

Hm.. she was 21 in the original ME7, so by now she'd be 34...

You can write it out.. I'm somewhat busy with other things right now, and don't have time to write out a ME entry...

[Othniel]

How about the New Ablioners?

And even if the Mauriafricans don't celebrate it, they might want to visit New Granada at that time for the opportunity to talk to other leaders who do like to join in the celebrations. Of course, that's up to you.
Mostly protestants or mixed French-Indians, highly Calivistic.... You'd have as much carnival as say, Minnesota

The Mauriafricans will most likely wait until the crowds die down, the New Ablionian people don't have much say in poltics outside of trade.

[Bulgaroktonos]

For Sudan, I say we just leave it. The Mahdists make for a nice buffer and wild card.....besides, much of the upper Sudan was Islamic by the 1300s anyway and the south rapidly converted when they finally began serious contact with the North......conversion is likely.......

And Laur.....don't think your army invincible. Just because they train in mountains and woods they will be supermen. They will still die and overheat in the desert. You might have a slight advantage in their overall hardiness, but saying "not even the desert will stop them" is pushing it.......the Gobi would annihilate anybody......

[perdedor99]

For Sudan, I say we just leave it. The Mahdists make for a nice buffer and wild card.....besides, much of the upper Sudan was Islamic by the 1300s anyway and the south rapidly converted when they finally began serious contact with the North......conversion is likely.......

And Laur.....don't think your army invincible. Just because they train in mountains and woods they will be supermen. They will still die and overheat in the desert. You might have a slight advantage in their overall hardiness, but saying "not even the desert will stop them" is pushing it.......the Gobi would annihilate anybody......

I agree with Bulg. A fighting force of 100,000 muslim fanatics will convert the south fairly easy. Or sell them to the Draka as serfs. I guess the Draka have a lot of Chiristians serfs from southern Sudan in the last couple of years. More accepted by the Skandistanis as serfs and primitive also. I bet there is a market for christian sudanese in the Draka serf markets. Also the Beja, the famous Fuzzie-Wuzzies of Kipling fame has been muslims since the 1300's IIRC and they are very fierce warriors. So I guess the christians are just a running, hunted minority in the Sudan.

In regard to Russian forces. They already own the Gobi. Check the maps the northern border between Russia and India is the Tibet. Still a very terrible terrain to advance throught in case of invasion.

[perdedor99]

...okay, so say that the poor colonial policies up to the Austro-Draka War compounded with the strong Madhist force that entered the area shortly after the ISOT led to a lot of hostility and Madhist rule.

However, Oth has had a few years to start changing that.

And those Madhists aren't getting any younger...if they haven't found willing converts, then their forces may be degrading over time....

By now, perhaps the region is ripe for a Christian overthrow of the Khalifa and ready for assistance from the Mauriafricans.

Actually, check the map. OTL southern Sudan is divided already between Drakan and British East African territory with a small part being really in Sudan. So the point is moot. The north was already Islamic and the south is either under the yoke, being hunted by the madhists for their serf markets or under the so called protection of the British.

[Othniel]

I agree with Bulg. A fighting force of 100,000 muslim fanatics will convert the south fairly easy. Or sell them to the Draka as serfs. I guess the Draka have a lot of Chiristians serfs from southern Sudan in the last couple of years. More accepted by the Skandistanis as serfs and primitive also. I bet there is a market for christian sudanese in the Draka serf markets. Also the Beja, the famous Fuzzie-Wuzzies of Kipling fame has been muslims since the 1300's IIRC and they are very fierce warriors. So I guess the christians are just a running, hunted minority in the Sudan.

In regard to Russian forces. They already own the Gobi. Check the maps the northern border between Russia and India is the Tibet. Still a very terrible terrain to advance throught in case of invasion.
As I understand it the Arabs were openly mining in the area. There are more primative Christians than Arabs. the Arabs didn't gain power OTL until the 16th Century, or 1523 when the Northern Kingdom Converted. Burg holds the highly Arab area. Nubia is Highly Christian and will stay that for a few centuries, and traditionally they were left alone in the south tell well now.

[Glen]

Actually, check the map. OTL southern Sudan is divided already between Drakan and British East African territory with a small part being really in Sudan. So the point is moot. The north was already Islamic and the south is either under the yoke, being hunted by the madhists for their serf markets or under the so called protection of the British.

Hmm, could slaving incursions from Draka held Sudan into British Southern Sudan lead to conflict?

[perdedor99]

As I understand it the Arabs were openly mining in the area. There are more primative Christians than Arabs. the Arabs didn't gain power OTL until the 16th Century, or 1523 when the Northern Kingdom Converted. Burg holds the highly Arab area. Nubia is Highly Christian and will stay that for a few centuries, and traditionally they were left alone in the south tell well now.

Sorry to disturb your idea, but check the maps. The Nile valley area ISOTED from 1886 under Austrian administration. That makes the majority of the population in Sudan muslim anyway. The only ones coming from the 1400 are the nomads living far away from the Nile area, so a minority compared with a population coming from 1886. The christians are a minority. Sorry. And I bet a very hunted one. The Draka have a large need for new serfs to work on the combines. :D

[perdedor99]

Hmm, could slaving incursions from Draka held Sudan into British Southern Sudan lead to conflict?

Well that has been going on for a while now and nobody said anything so I guess the British don't mind too much. Also the raids come from Sudan into maybe British territory and them sell the cargo to the Draka.

[Othniel]

Sorry to disturb your idea, but check the maps. The Nile valley area ISOTED from 1886 under Austrian administration. That makes the majority of the population in Sudan muslim anyway. The only ones coming from from the 1400 are the nomads living far away from the Nile area, so a minority compared with a population coming from 1886. The christians are a minority. Sorry. And I bet a very hunted one. The Draka have a large need for new serfs to work on the combines. :D
How are these serfs getting transported?

[perdedor99]

How are these serfs getting transported?

The same way has been done for thousands of years. You raid a village, capture what you can and leave. Them take them to Drakan territory and we purchase them and send them by train to the serf compounds for inprocessing. :D

Also the Madhists are the true rulers of Sudan, according to your own accounts, so they could just hunt the Christians in their own territory, transport them to our border and we take care from there.

[Bulgaroktonos]

More or less, very little has changed in the Sudan from what happened initially.

Secondly, I didn't mean the Gobi necessarily, I was just stating that higher more rugged training doesn't make your troops supermen. If they try to advance across the Great Indian Desert in Gedrosia, they are oging to have a hell of a time doing it, training or no training.

[perdedor99]

More or less, very little has changed in the Sudan from what happened initially.

Secondly, I didn't mean the Gobi necessarily, I was just stating that higher more rugged training doesn't make your troops supermen. If they try to advance across the Great Indian Desert in Gedrosia, they are oging to have a hell of a time doing it, training or no training.

I agree in both, especially trying to run supply lines thru the Himalayas and them a desert. I can see them making progress but it will be a very slowwwww going.

[Ward]

I agree in both, especially trying to run supply lines thru the Himalayas and them a desert. I can see them making progress but it will be a very slowwwww going.


Let see By the time the supply wagons get there there woul be a teaspoon of supplys on it . the rest would of beeb used by the supply units . :D

[Othniel]

The same way has been done for thousands of years. You raid a village, capture what you can and leave. Them take them to Drakan territory and we purchase them and send them by train to the serf compounds for inprocessing. :D

Also the Madhists are the true rulers of Sudan, according to your own accounts, so they could just hunt the Christians in their own territory, transport them to our border and we take care from there.
How do they transport them through if they can't get to your borders? They'd have to go through Ethopia.

[perdedor99]

How do they transport them through if they can't get to your borders? They'd have to go through Ethopia.
check the map. We have a common border with Sudan

[perdedor99]

I guess the neutrality plea of Francewas just a bunch of hot air. Still I guess the terrain don't help you. Attacking thru Switzerland and northern italy is not the best terrain and not good tank terrain at all. I can see a repeat of the Oldenberg war for the French. The return of the monarchy after the slaughter, perhaps?

[Bulgaroktonos]

I guess the neutrality plea of Francewas just a bunch of hot air. Still I guess the terrain don't help you. Attacking thru Switzerland and northern italy is not the best terrain and not good tank terrain at all. I can see a repeat of the Oldenberg war for the French. The return of the monarchy after the slaughter, perhaps?

France is still neutral. These are volunteer units. Frenchmen who realize that the British Empire interests are much in line with those of France. Sure the French Navy helped out a bit, but after all, they are comrades.....

[perdedor99]

France is still neutral. These are volunteer units. Frenchmen who realize that the British Empire interests are much in line with those of France. Sure the French Navy helped out a bit, but after all, they are comrades.....

yes they are. But with two regular army divisions with HQ and support units been volunteers? Not even a little kid believe that. The mobilization of forces is just a preventive meusure in case the neutral change to something else. That is all. With nations mobilizating reserves the spiral to war is moving ahead. at a fast pace. Is like a damn bursting and it will be very difficult to stop.

[Matt]

Quick! I have a few minutes, some up what's happened as brief as possible.

[perdedor99]

Quick! I have a few minutes, some up what's happened as brief as possible.

not a lot. French just send two divisions to Suez to protect neutral nations, the Austrians mobilized in response and the situation in Palestine is getting worse. I say the middle of march will be the beginning of this IMO.

[Ward]

yes they are. But with two regular army divisions with HQ and support units been volunteers? Not even a little kid believe that. The mobilization of forces is just a preventive meusure in case the neutral change to something else. That is all. With nations mobilizating reserves the spiral to war is moving ahead. at a fast pace. Is like a damn bursting and it will be very difficult to stop.


As the French Goverment Stated we are there that no one closes the Suez Canal to Neutrals . And It is in July that the Army of France Will be fully moblized for 6 to 8 Weeks . Then it will send the Res home.

If you check I anounced that I was moblizing the Army back before everyone was looking for a war,

[perdedor99]

Well that just ended the war! No way Draka is joining a war that they will lose. British, French, the Americans nations and Germans now. No way! Except is Austria stay neutral blocking the way for reinforcements. But for now. Draka is out. No way I'm fighting a losing war. Austria will fall. And without Austria to tie down the enemy them I will fall.

They can pick each one of us one at a time and they outproduce us. Sorry but I guess the alliance have to follow another path. I guess attacking the British is out of the cards now. Maybe take out the Germans with Russian help?

[Glen]

Just to mention it, because it is not clear to me from GP's post....

The Prussian Kaiser Wilhelm was never Kaiser of the German Confederation.

His son was, and he was married to an Oldenburg princess. That and Bismarck never being German Confederation Chancellor were part of the agreement that ended the war.

[perdedor99]

Just to mention it, because it is not clear to me from GP's post....

The Prussian Kaiser Wilhelm was never Kaiser of the German Confederation.

His son was, and he was married to an Oldenburg princess. That and Bismarck never being German Confederation Chancellor were part of the agreement that ended the war.

Still he has a deal with aussey and everything was being done counting with him being on our side as least as a neutral. With him breaking an agreement with Aussey you have to be a complete idiot to start a war. So he just killed ME7 in my opinion. Let's get ready for ME8.

They will be no world war. maybe a limited war, alliance versus the traitoir and the other traitor japan and maybe a war with the british in 1915 at the earliest.

[Othniel]

Hmm, so today is the fifth, MBarry has how many days left? We give him three days to tie everything up in the US and end LiME. On the 16th prehaps? We all die happily.

[Ward]

France has moblizrd because Austria has moblized have him back down and France will back down on his boarder .

Rember France ose not trust Austria-Hungry at all . They think Austria stole lands that should of Been French in Italy .

[perdedor99]

France has moblizrd because Austria has moblized have him back down and France will back down on his boarder .

Rember France ose not trust Austria-Hungry at all . They think Austria stole lands that should of Been French in Italy .

No. The deployment of forces to Suez is a provocation. And you know it. Mind as well sign a treaty with the British. Any way the war with the British is a no-go. so don't worry we are not aiming that recall for you anymore.

[Glen]

No. The deployment of forces to Suez is a provocation. And you know it. Mind as well sign a treaty with the British. Any way the war with the British is a no-go. so don't worry we are not aiming that recall for you anymore.

Given all this, it might be interesting to see what happens if GP's German Confederation does launch an attack on the Central European Empire.

Or, you could cede Bavaria to the German Confederation to buy their support back. A steep price, to be certain...

[Glen]

France has moblizrd because Austria has moblized have him back down and France will back down on his boarder .

Rember France ose not trust Austria-Hungry at all . They think Austria stole lands that should of Been French in Italy .

Which lands are those, Ward? You got protectorates in Milan and Savoy; what did Austria get, Venetia? Did your France consider those areas French?

[perdedor99]

Given all this, it might be interesting to see what happens if GP's German Confederation does launch an attack on the Central European Empire.

Or, you could cede Bavaria to the German Confederation to buy their support back. A steep price, to be certain...

Don't think so. The alliance counted on them being at least on their side. This actions pretty much force them to back down. The war is over. No war except for maybe a war in central Europe. But the worldwar is over. I guess the democracies and Draka will make a killing selling war material. Will write about the archon recommending the other nations to back down in their actions against the British. Need to concentrate in Germany. And the Russo-japanese war is also coming IMO.

[Ward]

Which lands are those, Ward? You got protectorates in Milan and Savoy; what did Austria get, Venetia? Did your France consider those areas French?


Yes they did

[Matt]

Whoa....

What happened?

Anyways, I'll be back in Jersey in one week...

[Othniel]

Whoa....

What happened?

Anyways, I'll be ba