ME7 African Question

[perdedor99]

It seems the British are giving Carte Blanche to the partition of Austrian Africa. The Draka are watching the world situation with interest. A war between Austria and Great Britain will be the signal to start the invasion of Austrian Africa by the Draka. But the war is coming anyway most likely. If no war and the Austrians accept the British demands they will seem like a weakling ready to be ripped apart. And let's not forget the Mauribrasilians. A war between Austria and them will be the end of Austrian Africa, but I don't see the British letting anyone taking Egypt except themselves.

Any thoughts? This could change of course according to situations, like the Austrians selling Ethiopia and the Somalian coast to the Draka, for example.

[perdedor99]

I think Mbarry should be the moderator in any war situation in Africa due to his nation must likely wbeing neutral in any African conflict. Will you take the task?

[Matt]

I agree and accept, although I well be out of town tomorrow and Saturday.

[Glen]

It seems the British are giving Carte Blanche to the partition of Austrian Africa. The Draka are watching the world situation with interest. A war between Austria and Great Britain will be the signal to start the invasion of Austrian Africa by the Draka. But the war is coming anyway most likely. If no war and the Austrians accept the British demands they will seem like a weakling ready to be ripped apart. And let's not forget the Mauribrasilians. A war between Austria and them will be the end of Austrian Africa, but I don't see the British letting anyone taking Egypt except themselves.

Any thoughts? This could change of course according to situations, like the Austrians selling Ethiopia and the Somalian coast to the Draka, for example.


Hmmm, so the question is how do things in Africa shake out if the Austrians and British come to blows in the Aegean?

Or in the event that Austria caves? Or what if the UK wavers?

I would suggest to you that the Draka as you seem to have played them thus far are not going to attack unless a war starts. They will note who caves in the event of no war, and move them up on the list of soon to be Yoked, but I don't think it sounds like your Draka are ready to go it alone yet...yet.

Okay, so let's take the scenario of the Austrians and Brits coming to blows.

What do the Persians do? Sit back until it becomes obvious who is going to win and take a quick chunk out of the loser at the end?

The Mauris will defend Crete, but who will they end up going against or siding with? Actually, cutting a deal to support the Austrians against the British for Crete and Greek Africa seems like a possibility. Hmmm, do the Austrians still have serfs? That would likely kill the deal for the Mauris and possibly throw them towards the Brits. If the Austrians don't back down, they need allies fast. And they still might lose! If they don't find allies, the British, Mauris, Draka, and Persians likely carve them up in Africa and the Middle East.

Spain is going to stay neutral in all this if they can. They have a mutual defense alliance with the Mauris (separate from the Americas defense alliance), but have been trying to have good relations with the Austrians. If the Austrians and Mauris get into a scrape in the Aegean, they might be able to stay out of it. However, if there is a fight between Austria and Mauri in Africa, they are going to have to help the Mauri.

Now, if the Mauri and Austrians cut a deal with each other, and stand against the British and the Draka, Spain might have to weigh in. One thing the UK has that the Spanish desire is Gibralter. And if a combined Mauri-Spanish force take Gibralter, that will close off the Meditteranean for the Brits. That is bad for them, very very bad. Of course, the Brits could cut a deal with the Mauris and that becomes less likely. Or they could make a daring move and cede Gibralter to the Spanish, who in turn would 'lease' it to the British, but would almost guarantee the Spanish stay out of it and don't threaten Gibralter.

Lots of permutations here....and of course, it could all just blow over.

Hey, Chair Beneficent could broker a deal if asked.... ;)

[Glen]

I agree and accept, although I well be out of town tomorrow and Saturday.

Well, if that is the case, get to modding and get this resolved (at least for what will happen overall) before you leave!

Also, what will you be doing with the US in that time? If you want I could babysit the states for you. Try and post your yearly updates for tommorrow today at least, and then I could just cover minor brushfires....

[Matt]

Well, if that is the case, get to modding and get this resolved (at least for what will happen overall) before you leave!

Also, what will you be doing with the US in that time? If you want I could babysit the states for you. Try and post your yearly updates for tommorrow today at least, and then I could just cover minor brushfires....


Things are kinda quiet.... I'm still continuing my Naval build up(I have a goal of 30 capital ships 50 cruisers and 100 DDs by 1899), as well as reforming the Army. The progressives well win a few more battles. Basically I leading up to the election in 1892, where you know who wins the you know what.... :cool:

[Othniel]

The Mauris are going to see both the oppertunity to cut the British out of the Mediterran, and their going to see a chance to see the Austrians driven out of Libya. They've been shown as the most native friendly goverment and you'll likely see it attempt to turn the tides. If Spain allies with us, or against us might be a problem. We'd try to get France on our side, and prehaps even the papacy.

[Glen]

The Mauris are going to see both the oppertunity to cut the British out of the Mediterran, and their going to see a chance to see the Austrians driven out of Libya. They've been shown as the most native friendly goverment and you'll likely see it attempt to turn the tides. If Spain allies with us, or against us might be a problem. We'd try to get France on our side, and prehaps even the papacy.

Spain won't ally against Mauri. However there might be a few situations where we are more 'neutral' than 'actively supporting the cause'. We'd like to be allies with the Mauris in any endeavor, but for our foreign relations at present it would probably be easier on us if you were not fighting the Austrians.

[Othniel]

If you can't exactly tell, but Austria is in the most hindering postion against my nation. They risk a population that has defended themselves against the Arab expansion for over 1200 years...

[Imajin]

Isn't Austrian Libya a major settlement colony? You may face revolts among the Austrian population, even if you succeed in taking it.

[Glen]

If you can't exactly tell, but Austria is in the most hindering postion against my nation. They risk a population that has defended themselves against the Arab expansion for over 1200 years...

True, they have you hemmed in on the East.

[Othniel]

Yes, but there are also major Berber populations to the direct south. 1400s yes, but theese are the people of my country. We'd most likely leave Libya to Civil War, however Egypt is anouther story. I can get the Brits and Native population on my side in such an occupation.

[Imajin]

Yes, but there are also major Berber populations to the direct south. 1400s yes, but theese are the people of my country. We'd most likely leave Libya to Civil War, however Egypt is anouther story. I can get the Brits and Native population on my side in such an occupation.
Actually, Austrian Libya, IIRC, was ISOT with Austria... So you'd have to ask Aussey about the Berbers...

[Othniel]

Not all of it. For example the south notch of Tripolli in the East didn't according to the map. Berbers were in the desert at 1400s levels, so even then I can't indoctrinate them for at least 20 years. Unless your saying that Austria committed acts of Genocide.... :eek:

[Aussey]

Sudan and Egypt will definatley fall quickly. Ethiopia-Somalia would but up a fight, a selling of most of their western lands would definatley occur , either that or surrendering them. However they'd probably retain a coast.

Sorry Oth, you aren't going to be able to overrun coastal Libya. Especially with the troops there, not including the ones stationed in Sicily and Naples. With the Naval Blockade, we have much of the navy in the area...so no one will get that.

I dont know why the sudden move on Austrian Africa, since the Austrians have agreed to Britain's terms of sole power to them in Constantinople, and we're getting Salonika...
...I guess you people take ideas seriously. Like when I misunderstood MBarry in ME6 1, but, hey, if you guys want to jump all over Austria just because I (not Austria) came up with a plan...go ahead...

[perdedor99]

Not Austria, just your politics. You face the biggest bully in the world and expect them to accept your demands? With you looking weak due to backing out of your original demands we see a rotting corpse ready to be picked. And I see the Mauriafricans think the same. Also you position in Ethiopia is very weak. You sit at the end of a long supply line, with transit thru Sudan almost impossible due to Madhists guerillas and you expect us not to attack? Your forces will fight and be massacred. Conscripted farmers versus veterans from colonial warfare. The massacre will be big. The skandistani will be embraced as citizens, the same with the russian jews, the white austrians will be expelled and the thousands of Africans will join the serfs under the yoke. I say the war last from the middle of 1890 to maybe the very end of 1891. That if the Mauriafrican don't join the war. them it will end earlier. Must likely we will ask for Ethiopia, Somalian coast and the Sudan. The problem is I say the british will join if they see anyone trying to take Egypt. So I'm staying out of it.

[Glen]

So, the Draka aren't ready to put Europeans under the Yoke, eh? :D

[perdedor99]

So, the Draka aren't ready to put Europeans under the Yoke, eh? :D

Not yet. The Skandistani refugees and Russian jews will be offered citizenship or leave. The white austrians will be expelled. The natives are going under the yoke.

[Aussey]

Once Draka goes through Central Africa they can take all they want, except for the orange areas I posted. Heck. If they want, they can have interiror Ethiopia. But we will keep the part of Somalia, vital to Communication with our most gracious Chinese allies...

[Aussey]

Not yet. The Skandistani refugees and Russian jews will be offered citizenship or leave. The white austrians will be expelled. The natives are going under the yoke.

Skandistanis are going with the Austrians. Sorry. It's still my territory.

[Matt]

Not yet. The Skandistani refugees and Russian jews will be offered citizenship or leave. The white austrians will be expelled. The natives are going under the yoke.


You know, if the United States wasn't so.... non-committed, we would have to smother Draka in it's crib.

*shrugs*

[Matt]

Skandistanis are going with the Austrians. Sorry. It's still my territory.


Yay! more refugees for me!! :D

Some of em aint gonna wanna go back Auss ;)

[Aussey]

Stop it! I'm saying where my subjects go and thats final. I dont go invading your guys nation and starting rebellions your. So just stop!

[perdedor99]

Once Draka goes through Central Africa they can take all they want, except for the orange areas I posted. Heck. If they want, they can have interiror Ethiopia. But we will keep the part of Somalia, vital to Communication with our most gracious Chinese allies...

sorry where are landing in the coast.and moving to the interior. And I bet the Skandistani pefer us to you. They will be plantation owners instead of serfs, political prisioners or just pretty criminals. Your words. no dice. we are taking what we want and not a lot you can do about it due to your refusal of Bulg demands must likely you're at war with the British in Europe.

[Aussey]

sorry where are landing in the coast.and moving to the interior. And I bet the Skandistani pefer us to you. They will be plantation owners instead of serfs, political prisioners or just pretty criminals. Your words. no dice. we are taking what we want and not a lot you can do about it due to your refusal of Bulg demands must likely you're at war with the British in Europe.

Sorry, last time I checked, I know my subjects more. And if you could read you would know Skandistanis arent serfs. That'd be the Jews Mexicans, and Indians, etc. And we didnt refuse. If you can read, we backed out of our Greek claims, and gave it to their rightful Queen. We only took Albania and Bulgaria, which was accepting the British, so we're not at war. Get witht the program.

[Matt]

Stop it! I'm saying where my subjects go and thats final. I dont go invading your guys nation and starting rebellions your. So just stop!


So refugee's automatically go where you tell them to? European nations
(esp ones with a traditional monoarchies) of this time period just have to except the fact that there is going to be emigration to the Americas! It going to happen just as it happened in OTL. Add is more times of distress and war, and displacing populations, you well have more people willing to get as far as way from the probelm as possible. Now I don't think any of them would go to Granda, the culture it too different, but Canada and the United States are certainly possible. Every other European player has acknowledge this situation

You having a goddamn temper tanturam... again. You've done this in several games so fair when presented with envitablities or situations of your own making. Your the one taking on the British....you made the choice. No one by themselves can take on Britian yet.

[Aussey]

MBarry, when will you learn to understand that we ACCEPTED THE BRITISH DEMANDS...we have no claim on Macedonia or Thrace. Only Albania and Bulgaria. We're now just recognizing the Queen of Macedonia.

[Matt]

Your assuming that the situation is acceptable to Bulg, he hasn't even gotten a chance to chim in. And I wasn't addressing that, I was addressing the "Why is everyone always picking on me?!"

[Aussey]

ok. take it. We have no Greek or Austrian claims except Libya, Albania, and Bulgaria.

[Glen]

Sorry, last time I checked, I know my subjects more. And if you could read you would know Skandistanis arent serfs. That'd be the Jews Mexicans, and Indians, etc. And we didnt refuse. If you can read, we backed out of our Greek claims, and gave it to their rightful Queen. We only took Albania and Bulgaria, which was accepting the British, so we're not at war. Get witht the program.

Mexicans? MEXICANS? What the heck are you talking about? There are NO Mexican serfs in this world. Viva la Revolution! Viva Zapata (okay, that one's a little anachronistic)!

I thought Austria abolished serfdom?

[Aussey]

Mexicans? MEXICANS? What the heck are you talking about? There are NO Mexican serfs in this world. Viva la Revolution! Viva Zapata (okay, that one's a little anachronistic)!

I thought Austria abolished serfdom?

Mexicans? whoops...i was thinking of the Austrians who went to Mexico.

We did abolish serfdom. Apparently it came back :rolleyes:

[Glen]

Okay, just a comment here.

While I am the first to admit that Aussey has had a somewhat erratic history during games, he's actually not doing too bad here.

He presented an idea, not a bad idea either, for the possible course of the devolution of Greece. Unfortunately, it wasn't going to stand up during the game because the British were unlikely to go for it. Fair enough, Aussey put a lot of work into it and did a good job. Not his fault that the British wouldn't go for it, it was worth a try.

And Aussey appears to be trying to move on, and is trying to act on legitimate and plausible interests of Austria. He may succeed, he may fail, or he may fall somewhere in between. However, that needs to be moderated by MBarry.

Aussey, Austria is likely to come out the worse in this situation unless you can find powerful allies. However, it is also true that it would not be wise to back down. You need either a compromise solution that would be seen as just that, compromise (and thus not backing down to Britain), or you need to find allies and stand your ground.

Overall, I think Aussey has been trying to hold a reasonable course. Some things people to Aussey and some of the things Aussey is saying back seem to not be connecting, and there seems to be some conjecture over maps.

So, deep breaths everyone and group hug. Its a game, and this is one of the crunch times. Just do your best for your nations and enjoy the ride. I think the time for discussion is past, it is now time for people to state what their Nations will do in this or that event, and for people to act, and MBarry to pull it all together into a coherent result.

Well, that's my two cents at least. I really do think that everyone is doing their best in this particular situation, just need to get the comms back on course a bit....

[Ward]

At this time France will stay neutral in the War .
France will let it be know that she is willing to take on the Greek African areas as a Trust for Grecce .She is putting feelers out about this to to UK and other nations .

[Glen]

At this time France will stay neutral in the War .
France will let it be know that she is willing to take on the Greek African areas as a Trust for Grecce .She is putting feelers out about this to to UK and other nations .

I think the Mauris are going to claim it as well.

[perdedor99]

I guess this will be outline of the war now. In 1891 we will continue the war but with all sides agreeing to peace in Greece the British started to make their concern of having us as neighbors in Ethiopia heard. Being the bullies they are, they offered the barely develop Central Africa and the more develop Western Africa plus cash in exchange for our conquests.

we knew we can't face them alone but we started to slow down our advance and when the Austrian asked for terms in 1891 we accepted. We trade the territories with the British in early 1892. And we are very, very, very pissoff with the British.

[Condottiero]

It's funny to see my poor errant Skandistanians to be so "loved" by everybody.