ME7 Balkan Question

[Aussey]

Here's my proposal...anyone else who has one should post it. But serious.
__________________________________________________ _____________
Northern Anatolia:
Annexed to Armenia-Trebizond. Is fully under their sovereignty and an equal province of the kingdom-empire. It is governed as call provinces of Armenia-Trebizond are. Govermental, and Territorial changes are subject soley to the Sovereign of the Empire, and not the international community.

Aegean Islands:
The Kingdom of the Aegean Islands is governed by local Greek Administration under a prince (who is titled "Regent") who is assited by an Executive Council. The British High Commissioner under the British Protectorate of the Ionian Islands, is responsible for the territory.

Peloplnnesus:
The British Protectorate of the Peloppennese is administered through a Governor, an Executive Council consisting of the Colonial Secretary, the Attorney-General, the Treasurer, 5 local residents (titled Senator), and a partly elected legislature.

Union of the Hellenes:
The Union of the Hellenes is a semi-self-governing dominion of the British Empire. The government is administered by an Executive Council who advise the Governor-General. Legislative power is vested in a Parliament of two houses: The Senate (Senators) and the Assembly (Deptuies). Each "republic" has a Presiding-Senator, and elected Provincial Council. The "republics" are: Epirus, Thessaly, Central Greece, and Eurboea.

Thracian Annex:
The Thracian Administrative Territory is a territory of the joint Austro-British-(Armenian?) Joint-Dominion of Constantinople. A British High Commissoner, Austrian High Commissioner, (and Armenian High Commissoner?) advise the Executive-Administrater who is elected by the people, with the consent of the governing nations: Britain, Austria (and Armenia-Trebizond?)

International Naval District of Constantinople:
A joint Austro-British-Armenian ownership of the Constantinople District, Thrace, and the unconnected port of Thesolonika region (I'll post a map.) Governerd by Imperial Board of Administrators, each empire (Britain, Armenia, and Austria) appointing one director. The British director serves as President of Congress. A popularly elected legislature with 10 representatives from the Constantinople District, 6 from the Thracian Annex, and 4 from Thessalonian Region.

Territory of Macedonia:
The Imperial Administrative Territory of Macedonia is a "colony" of the Imperial Austrian Confederation, more technically the Empire of Austria *proper.* The Emperor appoints a Lieutenant-Governor to represent the Crown. The popularly elected Assembly (unicameral legislature) selects 5 selectees, popularly chosen by the Macedonians. The Lieutenant-Governor then selects one to become Premier, who acts a vice-governor, and Presides of the Executive Council, consisting of the Secretaries of the various departments.

((also the Imperial Austrian Confederation has annexed the Albanian and Bulgarian provinces into their empire))

Cretan Free Zone:
The Cretan Free Zone is territory open to unarmed civilians of the Three Medterrainian Powers (Britain, Austria, and Armenia) and any nation approved of by the Governing Council, which consists of three consuls, selected by the King of Great Britain, Emperor of the Imperial Austrian Confederation, and Sovereign of The Kingdom-Empire of Armenia-Trebizond. Citizenship goes to any British, Austrian, Armenian citizen who lives on the island (these three may have dual citizenship) any other national must be approved by the said Governing Council. Any taxes on the island go to island development itself, and not the said Three Powers. The Mauriafrican government may retain a sing port city for a Cretan base, but any Mauriafricans in Crete will be subject to the laws of the Governing Council. The King of Mauriafrica will be allowed to choose 4 selectees for the Governing Council to choose 1 to become the Minister of Mauriafrican Relations.




OOC: So, how do you guys like it? Here's (http://www.pictures-europe.com/greece/map-greece.gif)a link for the map I used to make this. I think this is fair...

[Aussey]

BTW- Remember, this is between Britain, Armenia, and Austria...so nothing odd like Brazillian Crete :D

[Condottiero]

What about the Papal States taking care of the territory? I know the local population could be a bit angry, but it would be a good way of continuing the social experiment of the Christian Republic

[Aussey]

What about the Papal States taking care of the territory? I know the local population could be a bit angry, but it would be a good way of continuing the social experiment of the Christian Republic

Actually, I was thinking about the Papal States, but the area by them is British...so I did't know what esle there was...

[Imajin]

Here is my proposal:

EDIT: Wrong image...

[Aussey]

That is good too...but don't forget the oh so plausiblle and possible Mauriafrican Crete :p

[Othniel]

As long as Crete is an indepent Mauriafrica will have no qualm. Hower should Rhodes be annexed by their allies in Armenia we would not protest. ;)

[Aussey]

As long as Crete is an indepent Mauriafrica will have no qualm. Hower should Rhodes be annexed by their allies in Armenia we would not protest. ;)

CRETE HASNT BEEN INDEPENDENT THIS WHOLE TIME. THERE IS NO INDEPENDENCE TO PROTECT !!!!!!!!!

[Aussey]

Under my plan, it was independent...

[Othniel]

No it was a divided state under a three way annexation. In the event of civil war Crete is garenteed protection and indepedance from all invaders.

[Aussey]

No it was a divided state under a three way annexation. In the event of civil war Crete is garenteed protection and indepedance from all invaders.

Yes, it was a single country with a governing council....did you read the plan in THIS THREAD?

[Justin Pickard]

Of Imajin and Aussey's proposals, I think Aussey's ensures the most continuity.

I'll start the civil war in the speed up, and you folks might still have to deal with pockets of resistance once the speed-up is over...

[Glen]

BTW- Remember, this is between Britain, Armenia, and Austria...so nothing odd like Brazillian Crete :D

Well, Spain and Brazil would like to stay clear of the whole affair, to be certain.

However, there are certainly others who have a stake or might try to develop one. Specifically, Russia, Persia, and Mauriafrica.

Austria and the UK are the ones best positioned to dictate what happens, however.

[Othniel]

I don't know, Russia could easily move in and take over Bulgaria for example.

[Imajin]

I don't know, Russia could easily move in and take over Bulgaria for example.
If the German Troops there evaporate...

[Aussey]

I don't know, Russia could easily move in and take over Bulgaria for example.

Oth, you're grand plan of getting everyone against Austria is really getting annoying. Like your alliance with Greece, we have an alliance with Russia. Just agree with my edited plan, that is going to be changed one more time!

[Aussey]

OK everyone....read my plan....

[Glen]

I don't know, Russia could easily move in and take over Bulgaria for example.

I'm not certain that it would be easy, and it certainly wouldn't be quick.

[Imajin]

I still think that some of the Aegean islands closest to my coastline should be turned over to Armenia... after all, otherwise they make my coast harder to defend.

[Othniel]

Here's my proposal...anyone else who has one should post it. But serious.
__________________________________________________ _____________
Northern Anatolia:
Annexed to Armenia-Trebizond. Is fully under their sovereignty and an equal province of the kingdom-empire. It is governed as call provinces of Armenia-Trebizond are. Govermental, and Territorial changes are subject soley to the Sovereign of the Empire, and not the international community.

Aegean Islands:
The Kingdom of the Aegean Islands is governed by local Greek Administration under a prince (who is titled "Regent") who is assited by an Executive Council. The British High Commissioner under the British Protectorate of the Ionian Islands, is responsible for the territory.
For some reason I can't see the Aegean Islands as independant. For some reason I think they'd sway between the different establized Greek nations, ya'know?


Peloplnnesus:
The British Protectorate of the Peloppennese is administered through a Governor, an Executive Council consisting of the Colonial Secretary, the Attorney-General, the Treasurer, 5 local residents (titled Senator), and a partly elected legislature.
That sounds almost like what the British did in the Caribbean with St. Nevis... I like it, no protest.

Union of the Hellenes:
The Union of the Hellenes is a semi-self-governing dominion of the British Empire. The government is administered by an Executive Council who advise the Governor-General. Legislative power is vested in a Parliament of two houses: The Senate (Senators) and the Assembly (Deptuies). Each "republic" has a Presiding-Senator, and elected Provincial Council. The "republics" are: Epirus, Thessaly, Central Greece, and Eurboea.
While I can't see them as a domion pre-say I would dare to see them as a British puppet. A temporary goverment until the British can settle issues to allow indepedance might be better, for example what the US did with Cuba and the Phillopeans in OTL.

Thracian Annex:
The Thracian Administrative Territory is a territory of the joint Austro-British-(Armenian?) Joint-Dominion of Constantinople. A British High Commissoner, Austrian High Commissioner, (and Armenian High Commissoner?) advise the Executive-Administrater who is elected by the people, with the consent of the governing nations: Britain, Austria (and Armenia-Trebizond?)
Seems like a very famillar set-up. Where was it that I've seen this before? Barrowing the goverment model from New Ablion I see...


Territory of Macedonia:
The Imperial Administrative Territory of Macedonia is a "colony" of the Imperial Austrian Confederation, more technically the Empire of Austria *proper.* The Emperor appoints a Lieutenant-Governor to represent the Crown. The popularly elected Assembly (unicameral legislature) selects 5 selectees, popularly chosen by the Macedonians. The Lieutenant-Governor then selects one to become Premier, who acts a vice-governor, and Presides of the Executive Council, consisting of the Secretaries of the various departments.

((also the Imperial Austrian Confederation has annexed the Albanian and Bulgarian provinces into their empire))
Mauriafrica would issue a protest at this. Something like the joint goverment that Thrace has diviided between Armenia and Austria would work much better for our goverment.

Cretan Free Zone:
The Cretan Free Zone is territory open to unarmed civilians of the Three Medterrainian Powers (Britain, Austria, and Armenia) and any nation approved of by the Governing Council, which consists of three consuls, selected by the King of Great Britain, Emperor of the Imperial Austrian Confederation, and Sovereign of The Kingdom-Empire of Armenia-Trebizond. Citizenship goes to any British, Austrian, Armenian citizen who lives on the island (these three may have dual citizenship) any other national must be approved by the said Governing Council. Any taxes on the island go to island development itself, and not the said Three Powers. The Mauriafrican government may retain a sing port city for a Cretan base, but any Mauriafricans in Crete will be subject to the laws of the Governing Council. The King of Mauriafrica will be allowed to choose 4 selectees for the Governing Council to choose 1 to become the Minister of Mauriafrican Relations.
I'd prefer to see something along the lines of a goverment mirrroring that of former Greece put in charge of the island. Appoint Advisors instead of goveners and let the locals be self-govenering with their electing of the rulers. Station millitary advisors there for rebuilding as well as diplomatic advisors as to direct the country into a zone of free trade. Forbid armed naval vessels to be stationed here and allow the island to be a matince point for many ships entering the Caspin and Black Seas. Before setting up any goverment though make sure that the Russians will not protest as to prevent further conflict over the Island.

[Aussey]

Here's the western part of the International Naval District of Constantinople (Thracian Annex, Thessalonian Region), Austrian Macedon, Austria, and Armenia

[Aussey]

For some reason I can't see the Aegean Islands as independant. For some reason I think they'd sway between the different establized Greek nations, ya'know?

Bulg has specifically stated he wants the Aegean. So that, or they merge with another British nation in the area.


That sounds almost like what the British did in the Caribbean with St. Nevis... I like it, no protest.

ok

While I can't see them as a domion pre-say I would dare to see them as a British puppet. A temporary goverment until the British can settle issues to allow indepedance might be better, for example what the US did with Cuba and the Phillopeans in OTL

Not necessarioly dominion, as the King isnt their king. It is a form of temporary government until they can be their own. Most of these forms of government were edited from British/French rule in the Middle-East

Seems like a very famillar set-up. Where was it that I've seen this before? Barrowing the goverment model from New Ablion I see...

Actually, British and French mandates in the Middle-East (Syria, Transjordan, etc.)

Mauriafrica would issue a protest at this. Something like the joint goverment that Thrace has diviided between Armenia and Austria would work much better for our goverment.

How could you? The Albanian, Macedonian, and Bulgarian provinces were promised to Austria. Its the exact settlement A-H had with Bosnia before they just annexed it (as we will eventually...)

I'd prefer to see something along the lines of a goverment mirrroring that of former Greece put in charge of the island. Appoint Advisors instead of goveners and let the locals be self-govenering with their electing of the rulers. Station millitary advisors there for rebuilding as well as diplomatic advisors as to direct the country into a zone of free trade. Forbid armed naval vessels to be stationed here and allow the island to be a matince point for many ships entering the Caspin and Black Seas. Before setting up any goverment though make sure that the Russians will not protest as to prevent further conflict over the Island.

We could add a Mauriafrican consul to the Governing Council ?

[Glen]

Sounds like there is a possibility of a work-out between Oth and Aussey on this evolution. Cool.

Aussey, is Bulg cool with an Austrian port on the Aegean? I thought previously he was against it. Just want to make certain everyone is on the same page, whether agreeing or agreeing to disagree.

Justin seems to favor the Aussey model, and for the reason of Continuity, my favorite. I'd say that, with minor amendations as necessary, that should be the jump off point for how this all goes down, both out of respect for Justin and for respect for what he perceives as the Continuity of the story he's established for his nation.

[Imajin]

We at least want the Aegean Islands demilitarized. We see them as a threat to Armenian security... (actually, I believe Turkey has similar greviences about the Greek Aegean isladns OTL)

[Aussey]

Sounds like there is a possibility of a work-out between Oth and Aussey on this evolution. Cool.

I know! I'm so happy.

Aussey, is Bulg cool with an Austrian port on the Aegean? I thought previously he was against it. Just want to make certain everyone is on the same page, whether agreeing or agreeing to disagree.

He didnt want to risk giving Austria Thesolonika, in case of a Russian war. As you see, Thesolonika is part of the INDC (International Naval District of Constantinople) in which the British director is Chief Director of three (A brit, and austro, and armenian goathered...jk:))

Justin seems to favor the Aussey model, and for the reason of Continuity, my favorite. I'd say that, with minor amendations as necessary, that should be the jump off point for how this all goes down, both out of respect for Justin and for respect for what he perceives as the Continuity of the story he's established for his nation.

I think with a few edits its good too! I've already edited it for Oth to have equal power in Crete, and I've given Thesolonika to the INDC

[Aussey]

We at least want the Aegean Islands demilitarized. We see them as a threat to Armenian security... (actually, I believe Turkey has similar greviences about the Greek Aegean isladns OTL)

Fine by me....see what Bulg says. Possibly we could put the Aegean islands with the Cretan Government or the International Naval District of Constantinople...giving the Aegeans say, 5 in the Congress?

[Othniel]

How could you? The Albanian, Macedonian, and Bulgarian provinces were promised to Austria. Its the exact settlement A-H had with Bosnia before they just annexed it (as we will eventually...)
How could I protest? I believe your confusing protest and contest. protest to issue a statement of displeasure at what has been done. A poltical "That may lead to some trouble", or "I wouldn't do that if I were you...", while contesting a claim would be to go about acting upon it. The mobelization of troops to get you to stand down and reform your claim would be a way of contestation. I don't nessaraly have to declare war in this, just displeasure at the colonzation attempt when such a providence as proud as Macedonia is in need of Autonomy.

As for Crete I'd like to hear what Russia has to say about the whole thing before that threat happens. Openly we'd prefer that they were selfgovnered and that we had garenteed acess to the island and straits.

[Aussey]

How could I protest? I believe your confusing protest and contest. protest to issue a statement of displeasure at what has been done. A poltical "That may lead to some trouble", or "I wouldn't do that if I were you...", while contesting a claim would be to go about acting upon it. The mobelization of troops to get you to stand down and reform your claim would be a way of contestation. I don't nessaraly have to declare war in this, just displeasure at the colonzation attempt when such a providence as proud as Macedonia is in need of Autonomy.

As for Crete I'd like to hear what Russia has to say about the whole thing before that threat happens. Openly we'd prefer that they were selfgovnered and that we had garenteed acess to the island and straits.

No, Macedonia is going to be a dependency for now. I'm telling you. Its exactly as Bosnia was to the Austro-HUngarian before annexation! Just, please, leave me to my provinces.

As for Crete, I am not waiting for Lauranthalas to return! It is still the same presence in the Aegean except for a Mauri base on Crete. The brits would let them do anything anyhow...so have we come to an agreement?

[Othniel]

No, Macedonia is going to be a dependency for now. I'm telling you. Its exactly as Bosnia was to the Austro-HUngarian before annexation! Just, please, leave me to my provinces.

As for Crete, I am not waiting for Lauranthalas to return! It is still the same presence in the Aegean except for a Mauri base on Crete. The brits would let them do anything anyhow...so have we come to an agreement?
Ask DuQuense as Russia is in his hands. The Mauri's are happy with their security forces.

[Glen]

No, Macedonia is going to be a dependency for now. I'm telling you. Its exactly as Bosnia was to the Austro-HUngarian before annexation! Just, please, leave me to my provinces.

As for Crete, I am not waiting for Lauranthalas to return! It is still the same presence in the Aegean except for a Mauri base on Crete. The brits would let them do anything anyhow...so have we come to an agreement?

You don't need to wait for Laur. DQ is running Russia for him, I believe.

Or in the absence of that, have MBarry make a mod ruling on the Russian stance.

For my 2 cents, I think Russia missed the boat in 1886. They should have contested control of the region then. I think they will probably go for any plan that either fragments control in the area so utterly that it eases their ability to come and go from the Black Sea, or that guarantees them free transit through to the Med. I assume there was some sort of deal with the UK for just that, and that is why they didn't scream bloody murder when the Brits moved in.

I'd suggest that we continue working on the plan as is, with minor amendation as needed, and let DQ or MBarry give a final say for Russian reaction whenever one of them shows and pipes in.

[Aussey]

So are we all (except Britain) in favor of this plan? Otherwise we know Britain will just not accept it....

[Imajin]

I don't know... What is the status of the Dodecanese and Rhodes?

[Aussey]

I don't know... What is the status of the Dodecanese and Rhodes?

The Rhodes are going to you, where are the Dodecanese?

[Othniel]

There are some problems to be hashed out, however I belive a mutaul understanding can come to pass with the Aegeans being split between the Greece Dominion proper, Crete and Armenia. I don't see them as an independant force any where in the future and see them as too valueble navally for anybody not to fight over whose going to control them.

[Imajin]

The Rhodes are going to you, where are the Dodecanese?
The island chain south of Ikaria and Samos....

[Aussey]

wait, here we go:

Rhodes go to Crete

Aegeans get split equally between the Union of the Hellenes (Greece proper) and the Empire-Kingdom of Armenia-Trebizond.

[Imajin]

How about this:
Lesbos, Rhodes, and the smaller Dodecanese to Armenia-Trebizond.
Karpathos to the Cretan Free Zone.
The Rest goes to the rump Greece.

[Aussey]

Northern Anatolia:
Annexed to Armenia-Trebizond. Is fully under their sovereignty and an equal province of the kingdom-empire. It is governed as call provinces of Armenia-Trebizond are. Govermental, and Territorial changes are subject soley to the Sovereign of the Empire, and not the international community.

Aegean Islands:
The Aegean Islands are to be split equally between the Union of the Hellens and the Empire-Kingdom of Armenia-Trebizond. The laws of the said nations are to apply to the Aegean islands under the said nations.

Peloplnnesus:
The British Protectorate of the Peloplnnesus is administered through a Governor, an Executive Council consisting of the Colonial Secretary, the Attorney-General, the Treasurer, 5 local residents (titled Senator), and a partly elected legislature.

Union of the Hellenes:
The Union of the Hellenes is a semi-self-governing nation, under some control of the British Empire. The government is administered by an Executive Council who advise the President-General (to be selected by the Hellenic Senate, from selecteews chosen by Britain). Legislative power is vested in a Parliament of two houses: The Senate (Senators) and the Assembly (Deptuies). Each "republic" has a Presiding-Governor, and elected Provincial Council. The "republics" are: Epirus, Thessaly, Central Greece, and Eurboea.

Thracian Annex:
The Thracian Administrative Territory is a territory of the joint Austro-British-(Armenian?) Joint-Dominion of Constantinople. A British High Commissoner, Austrian High Commissioner, (and Armenian High Commissoner?) advise the Executive-Administrater who is elected by the people, with the consent of the governing nations: Britain, Austria (and Armenia-Trebizond?)

International Naval District of Constantinople:
A joint Austro-British-Armenian ownership of the Constantinople District, Thrace, and the unconnected port of Thesolonika region (I'll post a map.) Governerd by Imperial Board of Administrators, each empire (Britain, Armenia, and Austria) appointing one director. The British director serves as President of Congress. A popularly elected legislature with 10 representatives from the Constantinople District, 6 from the Thracian Annex, and 4 from Thessalonian Region.

Territory of Macedonia:
The Imperial Administrative Territory of Macedonia is a "colony" of the Imperial Austrian Confederation, more technically the Empire of Austria *proper.* The Emperor appoints a Lieutenant-Governor to represent the Crown. The popularly elected Assembly (unicameral legislature) selects 5 selectees, popularly chosen by the Macedonians. The Lieutenant-Governor then selects one to become Premier, who acts a vice-governor, and Presides of the Executive Council, consisting of the Secretaries of the various departments.

((also the Imperial Austrian Confederation has annexed the Albanian and Bulgarian provinces into their empire))

Cretan Free Zone:
The Cretan Free Zone is territory open to unarmed civilians of the Three Medterrainian Powers (Britain, Austria, and Armenia) and any nation approved of by the Governing Council, which consists of three consuls, selected by the King of Great Britain, Emperor of the Imperial Austrian Confederation, and Sovereign of The Kingdom-Empire of Armenia-Trebizond. Citizenship goes to any British, Austrian, Armenian citizen who lives on the island (these three may have dual citizenship) any other national must be approved by the said Governing Council. Any taxes on the island go to island development itself, and not the said Three Powers. The Mauriafrican government may retain a sing port city for a Cretan base, but any Mauriafricans in Crete will be subject to the laws of the Governing Council. The King of Mauriafrica will be allowed to choose 4 selectees for the Governing Council to choose 1 to become the Minister of Mauriafrican Relations. The Islands of Rhodes are a part of the Cretan Free Zone and subject to its laws

Here's (http://www.pictures-europe.com/greece/map-greece.gif)a link for the map

[Glen]

So are we all (except Britain) in favor of this plan? Otherwise we know Britain will just not accept it....

Here's the thing.

There is IC and OOC agreement.

We would like to get OOC agreement by all involved as to the sequence and outcome of events, otherwise we need MBarry to judge as an uninvolved moderator.

IC, while agreement will make this run smoother, it is neither necessary nor always desirable. However, any 'plan' that the UK IC does not assent to will be doomed to failure, IMO.

[Aussey]

Top resolve this issue: (Kassos goes to Armenia too)

[Aussey]

Here's the thing.

There is IC and OOC agreement.

We would like to get OOC agreement by all involved as to the sequence and outcome of events, otherwise we need MBarry to judge as an uninvolved moderator.

IC, while agreement will make this run smoother, it is neither necessary nor always desirable. However, any 'plan' that the UK IC does not assent to will be doomed to failure, IMO.

It is necessary otherwise there will be no greece, or the UK will get it all. Justin has said this is what will happen, kind of forcing the UK to agree

[Othniel]

I'm showing the division i have for the islands.

[Aussey]

Fine by me, but I dont think Crete needs the south-Aegean, since they've also inherited the Rhodes...

[Imajin]

I like Othniel's map, though I would throw the remianing Greece a bone and give them Kithira.

[Othniel]

Fine, Kithira would be more than exceptable to go to Greece. I was just trying to keep it fair.

[Aussey]

Map of Greece...???

[Aussey]

WHOOPS! forgot...orange is Austrian Macedon...

[Othniel]

ARGGG! A divide Corinth won't do for Greece. That Canal is quite Valuable. Megarg is where it would be on the earlier map.... just saying that would be a headache for the nationals and the British.... :(

[Imajin]

ARGGG! A divide Corinth won't do for Greece. That Canal is quite Valuable. Megarg is where it would be on the earlier map.... just saying that would be a headache for the nationals and the British.... :(
So move the border a bit East, then?

[Aussey]

ARGGG! A divide Corinth won't do for Greece. That Canal is quite Valuable. Megarg is where it would be on the earlier map.... just saying that would be a headache for the nationals and the British.... :(

The British control both anyways???PLus when they are ready for independence, the British Mandate of the Peloppennese will most likely be absorbed into the Union the Hellenes. Give the Pelopanese SOMEthing!!!

[Aussey]

So move the border a bit East, then?

southwest...

[Othniel]

I'm just saying that is probably best to keep that area together..

[Aussey]

I'm tired of making maps! You fix it! I've spent the last day resolving the Skandistani Civil War and divisions (apporved by COndi) AND the Greek ones...imagin all the maps i had to look at and make...not to mention the ones that werent posted!

so are we all now (except the British) in favor of these plans?????????

[Othniel]

Why not do what we did with Constantnopial, or what the US did with the Panama canal? Put as part of the Straits zone on loan to the British. I'm sure they'd love that.. the Corithian Canal Zone..highlighted in red.

[Aussey]

Under the same form of government of Constantinople? or perhaps under the INDC itself?

[Othniel]

I was thinking the british could figure that out, or that it be decided by the British of which Greek partition gets it...or we could just let them decide, but it is my suggestion that istmus remains together as to ensure trade.

[Justin Pickard]

That all seems fine.

[Aussey]

Division of the Hellenes:

[Imajin]

Nice map, Aussey!
Armenia-Trebizond has no problem with it.

[Aussey]

Northern Anatolia:
Annexed to Armenia-Trebizond. Is fully under their sovereignty and an equal province of the kingdom-empire. It is governed as call provinces of Armenia-Trebizond are. Govermental, and Territorial changes are subject soley to the Sovereign of the Empire, and not the international community.

Aegean Islands:
The Aegean Islands are to be split equally between the Union of the Hellens and the Empire-Kingdom of Armenia-Trebizond. The laws of the said nations are to apply to the Aegean islands under the said nations.

Peloplnnesus:
The Pelopennesse Commonwealth, a British mandate, is administered through a Governor, an Executive Council consisting of the Colonial Secretary, the Attorney-General, the Treasurer, 5 local residents (titled Senator), and a partly elected legislature.

Union of the Hellenes:
The Union of the Hellenes is a semi-self-governing nation, under some control of the British Empire. The government is administered by an Executive Council who advise the President-General (to be selected by the Hellenic Senate, from selecteews chosen by Britain). Legislative power is vested in a Parliament of two houses: The Senate (Senators) and the Assembly (Deptuies). Each "republic" has a Presiding-Governor, and elected Provincial Council. The "republics" are: Epirus, Thessaly, Central Greece, and Eurboea.

Thracian Annex:
The Thracian Administrative Territory is a territory of the joint Austro-British-(Armenian?) Joint-Dominion of Constantinople. A British High Commissoner, Austrian High Commissioner, (and Armenian High Commissoner?) advise the Executive-Administrater who is elected by the people, with the consent of the governing nations: Britain, Austria (and Armenia-Trebizond?)

International Naval District of Constantinople:
A joint Austro-British-Armenian ownership of the Constantinople District, Thrace, and the unconnected port of Thesolonika region (I'll post a map.) Governerd by Imperial Board of Administrators, each empire (Britain, Armenia, and Austria) appointing one director. The British director serves as President of Congress. A popularly elected legislature with 10 representatives from the Constantinople District, 6 from the Thracian Annex, and 4 from Thessalonian Region.

Territory of Macedonia:
The Imperial Administrative Territory of Macedonia is a "colony" of the Imperial Austrian Confederation, more technically the Empire of Austria *proper.* The Emperor appoints a Lieutenant-Governor to represent the Crown. The popularly elected Assembly (unicameral legislature) selects 5 selectees, popularly chosen by the Macedonians. The Lieutenant-Governor then selects one to become Premier, who acts a vice-governor, and Presides of the Executive Council, consisting of the Secretaries of the various departments. An 1899 Referendum will be held to contiue territory status, or be annexed into the Confederation.

((also the Imperial Austrian Confederation has annexed the Albanian and Bulgarian provinces into their empire))

Cretan Free Zone:
The Cretan Free Zone is territory open to unarmed civilians of the Three Medterrainian Powers (Britain, Austria, and Armenia) and any nation approved of by the Governing Council, which consists of three consuls, selected by the King of Great Britain, Emperor of the Imperial Austrian Confederation, and Sovereign of The Kingdom-Empire of Armenia-Trebizond. Citizenship goes to any British, Austrian, Armenian citizen who lives on the island (these three may have dual citizenship) any other national must be approved by the said Governing Council. Any taxes on the island go to island development itself, and not the said Three Powers. The Mauriafrican government may retain a sing port city for a Cretan base, but any Mauriafricans in Crete will be subject to the laws of the Governing Council. The King of Mauriafrica will be allowed to choose 4 selectees for the Governing Council to choose 1 to become the Minister of Mauriafrican Relations. The Islands of Rhodes are a part of the Cretan Free Zone and subject to its laws

Here's (http://www.pictures-europe.com/greece/map-greece.gif)a link for the map[/QUOTE]

[Othniel]

Speaking from a thrid person point of view:

Essentially you have created 4 rivial Greece's. If anybody though Greece was easy to bully before, then you'll have a much easier time now. Russia will be giving the loudest protests while the British loose somewhat of a puppet in the region. Though Austria makes off with the most land, I see Armenia as the big winner here, being given full acess to the Antollian coast. They're in a postion to gain the Hellespont if need be... Crete is probably the safest place in the world with this devolpment unless Persia attempts to build a navy along the coast of the Great Sea. I can see this area ending up with Cretain indepedance, depending on how much the demographics of Crete changed with the ISOT. In OTL it was a 60% Turkish majority, so they mind this a breathe of fresh air from the Greecian authorities.

[Glen]

It is necessary otherwise there will be no greece, or the UK will get it all.

Either of which could happen within the course of the game.

Justin has said this is what will happen, kind of forcing the UK to agree

Well, I wouldn't say force. Justin doesn't control the UK. However, I think as players, rather than nations, we ought to try and respect Justin's wishes, though sometimes our game strategy may call for amendation or outright actions in the games to alter that scenario. However, if it does come to that, it should be adjudicated by MBarry as a mod and Justin's Greek scenario given the benefit of the doubt wherever possible. At least that is my two cents.

[Glen]

It's all well and good to say you are all in agreement (except Britain), but what does that mean?

Sometime during the crisis your nations all come to some sort of agreement on Greece and try to get the British to accept it?

Or are you saying that with Justin, the creator of Greece, and the majority of players interested in the area in agreement, that is what 'should' happen, regardless of what Bulg might wish or have the UK do?

If all PLAYERS interested are in agreement as to what would happen in Greece, that's fine. Its a done deal (even if it is done with bloodshed IC ;) ).

I'm just trying to understand what y'all are really saying here.

[Justin Pickard]

I'm not too fussed, to be fair. I just wanted to see a realistic takeover...with various factions divvying it up. Occupied zones kind of like Berlin after WW2, but on a national scale.

[Othniel]

What I understand about the except for Britian:

Bulg isn't here, therefore he can't agree or disagree with the plan.

[Glen]

What I understand about the except for Britian:

Bulg isn't here, therefore he can't agree or disagree with the plan.

Well, when does the Plan take effect?

I thought that this is going to happen sometime in the future, 1890 at the earliest? That means that Bulg should have all day today to comment, as 1890 doesn't officially begin until Wednesday. When everyone we expect to comment has already agreed to how things should go and we want to get it set, fine. But this seems premature to me, if you are going to say that Bulg gets no say because he isn't here at this particular time of day. If he doesn't respond by tommorrow, then fine.

Maybe I misunderstood. Maybe you just mean that he can't YET agree or disagree with the plan, meaning that he can give some input sometime today.

[Imajin]

So how do we have this happen? Does Greece simply fall apart, the surrounding powers go to Constatinople or some other suitable city, and come up with this plan? Is there a War, and at the end the powers agree to this?

[Justin Pickard]

Greece falls apart in 1890. The rest is up to you lot...

[Glen]

So how do we have this happen? Does Greece simply fall apart, the surrounding powers go to Constatinople or some other suitable city, and come up with this plan? Is there a War, and at the end the powers agree to this?

Civil war starts
Great and Neighboring powers start moving in to 'restore order'
A few 'misunderstandings' between the vying powers with a little bloodshed, so they call a conference in say Constantinople, and then divvy up the spoils...

How long?

Civil war 1890-91
The Conference end of 91?
1892 the partition goes into effect?

Just a thought.

[perdedor99]

Civil war starts
Great and Neighboring powers start moving in to 'restore order'
A few 'misunderstandings' between the vying powers with a little bloodshed, so they call a conference in say Constantinople, and then divvy up the spoils...

How long?

Civil war 1890-91
The Conference end of 91?
1892 the partition goes into effect?

Just a thought.

that sound like a plan. Gives time to Bulg to respond. The problem will be who gets screw out of what. More bad blood will be created by this thing.

[Glen]

that sound like a plan. Gives time to Bulg to respond. The problem will be who gets screw out of what. More bad blood will be created by this thing.

Yeah. IC that's fine! I just want to make sure that no bad blood is created OOC.

[perdedor99]

Mighty Albion spoke and doesn't like the plan. It's pretty much take Salonika and we take Constantinople and the rest of Greece. If not, we keep Salonika and give you Albania, Bulgaria and parts of Macedonia. Thank you for playing. And a British offer is pretty close to an ultimatum. Take one or the other or sweeten the pot for the British but it seems they want Greece for themselves. The plan is a no-go the way I see it.

[Imajin]

Britain is obviously planning for an attack on Armenian Anatolia. We completely object to their taking of the strategic Aegean Islands and will not stand for this.

[perdedor99]

OOC: Persia will be neutral on any conflict on the area, even when they move forces to your border. Of course with our instructors been Austrians must likely that info will be leaked to your nation.

[Bulgaroktonos]

The British Empire stands by its proposal for settling the question of the Greek State. Britain cannot allow vital strategic interests to fall into the hands of expansionist, unstable nations that sit on the front lines of any conflict with a power bent on securing access from the Black Sea.

[Imajin]

The Empire of Armenia-Trebizond, and we shall note that the existance of, for example, Trebizond, has existed since 1204 AD, and was a successor to the Roman Empire, which was founded with Caesar Augustus, far before there even were Englishmen, and thus can not be called unstable with such a long history, objects to a nation which is clearly the most imperialistic on the planet, and in our eyes is in serious danger of eventually overstretching its bounds, commiting the taking of islands that pose a serious threat to the security of our nation. If the Empire of Russia, which we assume is the power bent on gaining an exit to the Black Sea, declares war to gain said entrance, Constantinople, it will have been because the United Kingdom denied it said access to said city. And what is to stop said Russia from attacking across your Empire? Even the Roman Empire overstretched itself. What shall you do when Russia begins major assualts on your substantial Indian possessions and elsewhere? If your nation loses that war, we may find our security compromised by seeing what has proven itself to be as expansionist as your own nation is sitting right across a thin body of water.

[perdedor99]

it's official. The british nixed the proposal. So you guys have until tomorrow to agree into some sort of agreement for the civil war and the results or we can have war.[hoping that is the case] Already sending info to mbarry about my operations. I know the British hate my guts but the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[Glen]

it's official. The british nixed the proposal. So you guys have until tomorrow to agree into some sort of agreement for the civil war and the results or we can have war.[hoping that is the case] Already sending info to mbarry about my operations. I know the British hate my guts but the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Oh, you're good, p99. I think the British would be damnfools to press the Drakan viper to their breast, especially if they use you in Africa. Its interesting to see how it is that the Draka really could have kept going. Amazing the things that realpolitik will allow to exist. :D ;)

Please do hash out some sort of agreement as to what will happen everyone, even if the agreement is that there will be no agreement or even war.

And remember to smile, always smile.... :D :D :D

[Aussey]

The Imperial and Royal Government of the Confederation fully backs and supports the said statement of the Empire of Armenia-Trebizond, that the British empire must respect the rights and opinions of the Balkan nations. Austria and Armenia ARE the Balkans.

[Bulgaroktonos]

The Imperial and Royal Government of the Confederation fully backs and supports the said statement of the Empire of Armenia-Trebizond, that the British empire must respect the rights and opinions of the Balkan nations. Austria and Armenia ARE the Balkans.

Last Britain, her professors, physicists, and learned scholars of all stripes checked, Armenia and Trebizond lay safely across a body of water known as the Sea of Marmara from the Balkan peninsula. The only nations Britain sees in the Balkans are Greece, Austria, and the Byzantine Empire.

Further, who is Austria to speak of about rights and opinions of Balkan states? You speak even now of carving them up........

[Aussey]

Last Britain, her professors, physicists, and learned scholars of all stripes checked, Armenia and Trebizond lay safely across a body of water known as the Sea of Marmara from the Balkan peninsula. The only nations Britain sees in the Balkans are Greece, Austria, and the Byzantine Empire.

Further, who is Austria to speak of about rights and opinions of Balkan states? You speak even now of carving them up........

Bulg...we dont control Thesoloniki under my plan. Its administered as part of Constantinople under the three directors...and the British one is the Chief Director..what more do you want? all of greece except Macedon, Crete (which you have 1/4 control over) and the East Aegean islands!!!

[Bulgaroktonos]

The entire plan is crazy. Nothing will get done. Tripartite Control?

A relatively independent Greece is what I want.......

[Aussey]

I thought Constantinople was under Armenia Britain and Austria all along???
The relatively independent Greece would be the Union of the Hellenes.
If you want sole control over Constantinople, this is what Austria wants:

1. Ability to use the straits with British permission, on a basis of 6 month "visas."

2. Permission to use the Corinth Canal freely.

3. Macedon (including Thesolonika)

4. And Thrace

5. Knowledge that Britain wont invade or encourage other countries to invade the African crownlands...

[Bulgaroktonos]

Constantinople was under joint Austrian and British control. The British have a rather large naval presence there at the moment. I'll be back for further negotiations.....

[Aussey]

If I had known that, the terms would have included Armenia...I was under the assumption that it had been this whole time...shall I rewrite the plan to say that?

[perdedor99]

I thought Constantinople was under Armenia Britain and Austria all along???
The relatively independent Greece would be the Union of the Hellenes.
If you want sole control over Constantinople, this is what Austria wants:

1. Ability to use the straits with British permission, on a basis of 6 month "visas."

2. Permission to use the Corinth Canal freely.

3. Macedon (including Thesolonika)

4. And Thrace

5. Knowledge that Britain wont invade or encourage other countries to invade the African crownlands...

what if Draka sees your nation's backing out as a sign of weakness? The British do not rule the Drakan nation.They must give us some concessions if they don't want us to keep away from your rotting corpse. :D

OOC: In just kidding. So dont' take it personally. It's just military banter. We have terrible sense of humor. but still you could get involved in a war with the Draka. And I'm not kidding on that. The only way you can take the war to me is thru a long supply line, that is very dangerous or thru the ocean and we will know you're coming. A fleet is very difficult not to spot, especially when they cross the Gibraltar Straights. And the madhistis could receive some nice toys to raise hell in Sudan. :D

[perdedor99]

If I had known that, the terms would have included Armenia...I was under the assumption that it had been this whole time...shall I rewrite the plan to say that?

I think your plan is dead. But continue to sweeten the pot for the British.

[Aussey]

My plan is dead...I'm pushing for the List of Austrian Demands, which seem reasonable if Britain wants Constantinople so badly. We already have a port being built on the black sea. Then we'll build a railroad to the Trieste, BTW- the Adriantic Sea is under complete Austria control...:)

[Aussey]

So does Britain agree to Austria's demand...of course, the British can use Thesolonika, and Alexandriopolis foe 6 month lease also :)

[Aussey]

what if Draka sees your nation's backing out as a sign of weakness? The British do not rule the Drakan nation.They must give us some concessions if they don't want us to keep away from your rotting corpse. :D

OOC: In just kidding. So dont' take it personally. It's just military banter. We have terrible sense of humor. but still you could get involved in a war with the Draka. And I'm not kidding on that. The only way you can take the war to me is thru a long supply line, that is very dangerous or thru the ocean and we will know you're coming. A fleet is very difficult not to spot, especially when they cross the Gibraltar Straights. And the madhistis could receive some nice toys to raise hell in Sudan. :D

Who said anything of war? We're allied with the Persians and have wanted to ally with Draka when all we had was coastal Libya :D

[perdedor99]

So does Britain agree to Austria's demand...of course, the British can use Thesolonika, and Alexandriopolis foe 6 month lease also :)

I think it will come down to you accepting British demands. They were the bullies of the 19th century. I think the Corinth Canal will be a no -go for military ships plus thrace is very iffy. The African one they can see sure but can they enforce it?

[perdedor99]

Who said anything of war? We're allied with the Persians and have wanted to ally with Draka when all we had was coastal Libya :D

The drakans are opportunists and they see an opportunity. That's all. They were british friends until they took Central Africa and they are ready to help them again for territorial gain. No long term allies except if they serve a purpose.

[perdedor99]

Who said anything of war? We're allied with the Persians and have wanted to ally with Draka when all we had was coastal Libya :D

So sell us Ethiopia and Sudan. We pay in diamonds. And friendship between our nations will be eternal. :rolleyes:

[Glen]

what if Draka sees your nation's backing out as a sign of weakness? The British do not rule the Drakan nation.They must give us some concessions if they don't want us to keep away from your rotting corpse. :D

You know, I keep wondering about that. One of the reasons the UK could 'bully' about others was that people knew that they not just could bust their teeth in, but would bust their teeth in. This UK has seemingly stayed out of things and folded on things a few times already. It could be perceived (wrongly I believe, but that doesn't matter) as a paper tiger.

In a related matter....how the heck are other countries getting Gurkha mercenaries? In OTL the British Gurkha relationship was a jealously guarded one. I don't get it....

[Glen]

So sell us Ethiopia and Sudan. We pay in diamonds. And friendship between our nations will be eternal. :rolleyes:

So, eternity is defined as the period of time it takes to put the rest of Austrian Africa under the yoke? ;)

[perdedor99]

So, eternity is defined as the period of time it takes to put the rest of Austrian Africa under the yoke? ;)
LOL. good one :D

[Bulgaroktonos]

You know, I keep wondering about that. One of the reasons the UK could 'bully' about others was that people knew that they not just could bust their teeth in, but would bust their teeth in. This UK has seemingly stayed out of things and folded on things a few times already. It could be perceived (wrongly I believe, but that doesn't matter) as a paper tiger.

In a related matter....how the heck are other countries getting Gurkha mercenaries? In OTL the British Gurkha relationship was a jealously guarded one. I don't get it....

Gurkhas? Nobody has them AFAIK, except the Norgestanis (who got them because the British sent them)

[Glen]

Gurkhas? Nobody has them AFAIK, except the Norgestanis (who got them because the British sent them)

I can't recall for certain, but I think maybe Condi had his Spanish/Chinese empire bringing some in. Not sure on specifics, but I know I've seen people other than the UK using them.

Also, could we clarify the whole, 'no chemical weapons by 1899' issue? I thought that was agreed as something that wouldn't develop, along with heavier than air flight. Oth had something about mustard gas in his mauriafrica post.

[Condottiero]

Gurkhas? Nobody has them AFAIK, except the Norgestanis (who got them because the British sent them)
Yes I am using some of them. I was trying to hire mercenaries everywhere and got nothing and I did not want a mostly chinese army... I suppose they could be decomissioned

[Othniel]

Alls Mauriafrica wants is for the Greek peoples in Crete to be left intact. Foreign rule there by Austria would be our biggest complaint. If Britian can keep Crete safe for African trade into the Black Sea as well as the Corinth Canal we'd be happy. We appuald the British in their efforts to keep the nation fairly automous and open to trade. We'll even promise to millitarially aide them in promise of reduced tariffs and garenteed trade.


(OOC: Although I still worry Russia won't approve.)

[Glen]

Alls Mauriafrica wants is for the Greek peoples in Crete to be left intact. Foreign rule there by Austria would be our biggest complaint. If Britian can keep Crete safe for African trade into the Black Sea as well as the Corinth Canal we'd be happy. We appuald the British in their efforts to keep the nation fairly automous and open to trade. We'll even promise to millitarially aide them in promise of reduced tariffs and garenteed trade.


(OOC: Although I still worry Russia won't approve.)

Quite frankly, I'd say British protectorate over Greece proper is pretty close to a return to status quo. The ISOTed Greek nation had very close relations with Britain it appears, and the Ionian islands were already a protectorate even prior to the event. I don't see how this would be much of a change for Russia.

The think Russia SHOULD have screamed bloody murder over was the outright occupation of the Dardanelles by the British (and I didn't realize this, either, Aussey) and the Austrians. But that is now about three of four years ago, seems unlikely to be brought up in this context.

[Othniel]

I'm just seeing the Russians move into areas boardering the Black Sea. Austria will back down if Russia decides to push them out. Mauriafrica wants those islands secure, and can see Austria as a potential enemy/ally in all cases. Out of context if Austria turns out to be an enemy we wish to be ready to presue counter-attacking without being cut off from valueable Russian grain.

[Aussey]

Oth, when Austria and Russia were going to invade Persia, we sent ut Black Sea border. By now (1890) we have a port (that we started in 1886) and a small port village. This year will see the connection of the Adriantic and the Black Seas.

Mauriafrica obvious illiterate. There was now Austrian control over Crete in my plan. Too bad cause the new plan by Bulg would either give me 1/2 shar of Constantinople of Thesolonika...a larger presence, especially since this (1890) year the Naval blockade doesnt start at Naples..ites being moved to stretch from Sicily to Albania :D

All I have to do is wait for BUlg to agree to my terms...

[Othniel]

I guess I can't except Austria to be smart, aand just sell Afircan possesions to me, and grant Naples Freedom so I can just not worry about the whole thing.

[Glen]

I'm just seeing the Russians move into areas boardering the Black Sea. Austria will back down if Russia decides to push them out. Mauriafrica wants those islands secure, and can see Austria as a potential enemy/ally in all cases. Out of context if Austria turns out to be an enemy we wish to be ready to presue counter-attacking without being cut off from valueable Russian grain.

The Austrians are already between the Russians and Greece, so it seems unlikely that they will attempt an action only based on Greek disintergration.

No, at this point I suspect that it would take something directly with Austria or the UK to set the Russians off.

Of course, the Russians might see that they have some role in protecting the Orthodox in Greece, much as they tried to do in Serbia. We saw how that all worked out OTL....

[Othniel]

And too think that a semipro austrian goverment would have been in Serbia might have prevented the annexation of Bosnia and therefore no assassination....

oh well...if he had only married a women that the people approved of...

[Justin Pickard]

Kingdom of Greece 1890:

The January General Election returns a hung parliament split between the conservatives and socialists, which quickly decends into chaos. King Alexander of Greece is shot by a lone gunman, to be suceeded by his sister, who takes the throne as Queen Marie. A military uprising against the Queen is narrowly defeated by loyal soldiers, in the process of which an attempted mutiny on board one of the military zeppelins culminates in a dramatic air disaster in the skies over Athens. Queen Marie is besieged in the state palace as fighting breaks out of the streets. The 'People's Republic of Crete' declares independence from the rest of Greece. The year ends with a mobilization of foreign troops, who have been invited into the country to support a plethora of competing factions.

There you go...

[Othniel]

I'm going to have to send troops to intervene in Crete. Socialism is non-exsistant in my tl so we arren't sure what is going on. We've going to send advisors to the island, both potical and millitary to asses the situation and problems.

[perdedor99]

With Aussey post already in, I guess if any conflict arises between Great Britain and Austria will happen in 1891, maybe after the major factions are under control of the different powers. A failed Conference perhaps?

[Aussey]

If the British troops invade and liberate Crete, the Austrian navy would gladly aid them, in return for British recognition of the Macedonian kingdom.

[perdedor99]

If the British troops invade and liberate Crete, the Austrian navy would gladly aid them, in return for British recognition of the Macedonian kingdom.

I think he wants you to pull out of the areas he mentioned and it's a non negotiable offer. I guess we could be allies against perfidious Albion in 1899. We were both screwed by them. :D But I screw you even harder so far so I doubt we will be friends.

[Aussey]

Dynastic plans of the Habsburgs:
The Emperor's brother and Queen Marie have a daughter. She is betothed to the Empero's son. First cousins, but its happened before. William and Mary...Princess Antonia Marie of Macedon is declared heiress-assumptive over all other children. Her child inherits Macedon and the Habsburg Empire

[DuQuense]

Originally Posted by Othniel
I don't know, Russia could easily move in and take over Bulgaria for example.

Not so easy as russia would have to go thru Austrian Romania.

i suggested to Aussey that He just take the Bulgarian coast. north of the British Constantinople. But no, he went to far, and lost Ethiopia over it.

Listen to your Mother-- small nibbles, and chew each bite fifty times.

[Aussey]

A minor concession :rolleyes: ...

[Justin Pickard]

'The Greek Situation' 1891:

As Athens burns, the Greek Orthodox Council flee to the Papal States to shelter beneath the wings of Pope Leo XIII and the Christian Communion in the Papal States, forming a Church in Exile ('Flight of the Synod'). Queen Marie, determined to regain control of the nation, enters into discussions with the Austrians to help retain power over a Greek 'rump' state centered around Macedonia. Meanwhile, a reactionary conservative faction, deeming Queen Marie and her 'Austrian bedfellows' as unfit to rule, send a telegram to the British asking for support in electing a more appropriate monarch from the house of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. The People's Republic of Crete starts to construct a complex series of naval defenses (think of the Napoleonic forts in the English channel), and is trying to make contacts with political sympathisers abroad.

React as appropriate.

Oh, and the Habsburg marriage will be fine...

[Aussey]

Its 4AM...I'll wake around Noon. I will respond to this all then. GOOD NITE

by the way...i'm talking Pacific time

[Othniel]

Should be fun drawing up a constution based around different documents. PArticullar the American(USA) documents on socialist Revolutions, and revolutionary goverments is going to make for a fasinating Communist Goverment. As time goes on I suppose the universities will be turning out working class intelligency as well as noninterference throughout several in place instutions. The Burgious is going to be disessembled, and a system of Delgates will most likely be used as opposed to representives. Some checks and balances will need to be put in place to prevent a millitary dictatorship. If Crete wishes to reunite with Greece in the near or far future it will because they want to, not because their forced to...

[Glen]

Should be fun drawing up a constution based around different documents. PArticullar the American(USA) documents on socialist Revolutions, and revolutionary goverments is going to make for a fasinating Communist Goverment. As time goes on I suppose the universities will be turning out working class intelligency as well as noninterference throughout several in place instutions. The Burgious is going to be disessembled, and a system of Delgates will most likely be used as opposed to representives. Some checks and balances will need to be put in place to prevent a millitary dictatorship. If Crete wishes to reunite with Greece in the near or far future it will because they want to, not because their forced to...

Bulg, will you go and crush the Socialists, please? They're already beginning to sound annoying. ;)

[Othniel]

I happen to like the socialists and am going to attempt to keep it open to trade.

[Justin Pickard]

Be careful, they have Napoleonic forts, a Maurafrican (sp?) military base, and the solidarity of the international working class. :D

Anyway, this isn't *proper* socialism, this is the tourist-friendly utopian type.

[Othniel]

I think it would just be easier for Bulg not to incite them. To do so might cause rebelllion among their Greek Brethen, and might be enough to bring France into the War, as well as bring revolts throughout GB. Plus I'm making sure that the Christian Commune would support them in their tolerance of religion. More tolerant than the French Revolutionaries at least.