MEuro reborn posting of countries

[reformer]

you know the drill. Include religion. ISOT 1627. Just Europe, north Africa, and the Ottoman empires exstent into the Middle East. Everything unclaimed is 700s dark ages.

I'm not forcing it or anything, but I think that a England with a 100 years war victory POD that ISOTs part of France, and a France controlled by Richilue would be very fun. I had several sugestions up there in the chat board.

Everyone is allowed on major power, and two small countries/citiy sates/ monk orders/ univerities/ knight orders/ religions (ISOT the churches and clergy). Don't just do minor places. . . we need important powers.

[Imajin]

Kingdoms of England and France
Capital: London
Head of State: Charles I Plantagenet, King of England and France
Land: Roughly All of English France on this map (http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1200.htm)
Religion: Roman Catholic
History: In this timeline, the One Hundred Years War stalled, with neither side gaining a clear advantage over the other. Eventually, the two sides made a reluctant agreement to formally divide France within what they controlled. The King of England and the King of France, however, could not agree on who would get the Crown of France, and both wanted it. Eventually they decided to disagree.
Since then, there has been relative peace, though also major dislike, between the two nations. French France has expanded eastward, and it's border is the Rhine. Recently, within French France reformers have called for major changes in the Catholic Church. This has resulted in major disputes within the Vatican. A formal schism between the "Puritans", who seek a Purer Church and have a large following in Germany and French France, and the Catholics seems more and more likely by the day...
Military: To come.
Flag:
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/g/gb_tr.gif

Is this nation alright?

[reformer]

Very nice. . . is England more of the 'Puritan' Catholic or the traditonal one?

Depending on how France is done, you may or may not get all the territory you claimed, but I'll promise you a huge chunk of France. Does England include Scotland and Ireland?

[Imajin]

Very nice. . . is England more of the 'Puritan' Catholic or the traditonal one?
There are supporters of the Puritan movement in English France (Especially in, surpriningly, Guyenne), but it's far more common in French France...

Depending on how France is done, you may or may not get all the territory you claimed, but I'll promise you a huge chunk of France. Does England include Scotland and Ireland?
Well, I wasn't planning to bring any of England along, unless no one else wants it. It doesn't include Scotland, and Ireland is rather odd... Some areas are under direct English control, a few small areas are independent Kingdoms, some are Kingdoms who pay homage to the English monarch...

[reformer]

Well, lets see what else comes up. England, as an island, not part of France, is actually less important in this century, than say Saxony or Sweden or Austria or normall France or the Papal states, or even Venice. But I do love the devided France. That's your original main power by the way.

[Othniel]

I'm still deciding if I want to play as the Polish Commonwealth (OTL) this time or not. I might want to save an exsisting uberpoland for ME8....

[Imajin]

Republic of Cisalpinia
Capital: Mutina
Head of State: Nestore Federico
Religion: Roman Catholic, however there are large numbers of Protestant sympathizers and Protestants.
Land: Roughly the former Roman Province of Cisalpine Gaul, in Northern Italy. (Lombardy and parts of Emilia-Romagna)
History: The Traditions of the Gauls of Cisalpine Gaul managed to remain somewhat intact rather than quick Latinization. This had very little affect on History's course. Octavian did not integrate it into Italy, but Jesus Christ still preached in Judea, and much later, a preacher named Mohammed created an entirely new religion in Arabia. Their language did gain a large number of Latin words.
When Odoacer ended the Western Roman Empire, Cisalpinia became part of his Kingdom. Later, when Lombards came in, the Cisalpinians fought them off, and they were forced south, into the region now called Lombardy (OTL East Tuscany), and the beginnings of the modern Republic were born.
Since then, History has, surprisingly, gone similarly to OTL. Cisalpinia came under Frankish and later HRE rule, and after that wiggling itself out as an independent Republic, led by a strong aristocracy but without a King.
The Reformation has come to the world. Though the leaders of the Republic remain strong in their Catholic faith, many Cisalpinians have followed this new Lutheran faith. Because of this, the Republic has not, as of yet, entered the War that rages across Germany...
Military: Have to do more reasearch on this period.

[reformer]

Considering this fits in very well with the way the political scene look back in thoes days, no problem with your Gallic community. Could you make a map or some way to show the exstent of the state?

[Imajin]

Considering this fits in very well with the way the political scene look back in thoes days, no problem with your Gallic community. Could you make a map or some way to show the exstent of the state?
Here's a rough map... As you can see, it looks like complete crap, but it should show the boundaries.

[Bulgaroktonos]

What the hell? Why are we starting a new ME!!!! WE ALREADY HAVE THREE GOING WITH ANOTHER GOING TO START!!!!!!!!!

[reformer]

This isn't really a part of the ME community. View it as parralell, like IE or AV. There was enough interest, so I started. Anyway, it looks like ME8 is a long way away, and I this seems like a more original way to go for some than LiME. More importantly alot of people were interested.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Alright, then I suppose I'm going to have to put up a nation........

Nation: Roman Empire
Ruler: Alexander II Lascaris
Territory: OTL Greece, Aegean, Crete, Cyprus, Turkey, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Montenegro

An earlier version of my Greek Republic from MEs 5 and 6. It is still an official Empire, under one of its greatest Emperors. Based on a victory at Myriocephalum and the later Comneni living more productive lives, the Roman Empire is still a second rate power in the world, fighting constant wars against the Hapsburgs and Egyptians at once. However, under the military genius of Alexander II, the Romans would crush the Egyptian and Safavid threats.

[reformer]

Ok. Byzantine empire works, but don't suspect your entire empire to be ISOTed. Alot of nations are gonna loose alot of land.

It'd be fun to see an Ottoman Empire ISOTed along with a Byzantine. Fighting to restore old land. . .

[Bulgaroktonos]

Reformer, if people want lands we have, we usually negotiate. Otherwise, its assumed you get all of your claims. If we have some Ayyubids, and they want lower Anatolia, we negotiate where the border will be post ISOT......

[Lauranthalas]

I'm claiming Skandinavia

I have the areas on a map attached in red. Is Greenland also Included or not? If then I would claim it into my country. History and so I'll write up later

[reformer]

Go ahead with Greenland.

[Lauranthalas]

Name: United Kingdom of Greater Scandinavia
Goverment: Absolute Monarchy
Capital: Oslo
Head of State: Olav Haraldsson
POD: 1389
Religion: Nordic; minorities: protestant (2%), orthodox (1%), catholic(>1%)
History:
After the unliked Swedish King Albert of Mecklenburg was defeated by the Danish and Swedish nobles private armies the Union of Kalmar was formed. But soon after the Norwegians and Swedish agreed to exclude the Danish because of their many wars against northern German nations. This pleased the Hanseatic Union and the relations between the Union of Kalmar and the Hanseatic Union got better. In 1398 Finnland asked to be part of the Union. In 1399 Finnland became official member of the Union.
Some northern Norwegians began settling in Iceland in 1453 founded Reykjavik. In 1463 they also began settling Greenland and founded the city of Nuuk. Both new "colonies" immediately joined the Union. These new lands now required to build a bigger navy. In 1471 the Union of Kalmar signed a treaty with the Hanseatic Union for an alliance. This now said that the Union of Kalmar protects the Hanseatic Merchants and get this way better prices for wares.
King Vilius renamed the Union of Kalmar into the United Kingdom of Greater Scandinavia in 1524 and got absolute monarchial power in the new Kingdom. The only problem with this was that many of the Russian Principalities felt like the Scandinavians would become to strong and began to fight them. This required to raise armies and so they King had to import more weaponry. Vilius raised the army but still the navy was had more priority. From that year on the borders to the Russians changed nearly every year.

Military: later

Flag:

[DuQuense]

Name:
: League of Normandy

King:
: Julius Caesar *

Government :
: King & Senate {Named after the Senate of Rome—Is closer to England's House of Lords] Composed of the 12** Grand Princes of the League, and the Great lords.
Each Princedom has it's own Senate of the local Lords.

History:
: During the 400's as Romes was Collapsing The Vandals crossed the Gibraltar Straits into the Province of Mauritania, There they Split one group heading south along the Coast, the other east, to Carthage .
Soft POD. ATL.
Here they didn't split, and all of them ended up in Carthage , With more manpower they took not only Sardinia/Corsica [as OTL] But Sicily and the Balearic Islands as well.

In 528 when Belirussia Conquered North Africa for Justinian the Great, He took not only Tunis but the Vandal Isles as well.
With the Eastern Roman Empire came the Orthodox Church, and the Forces of Orthodoxy . The Small isolated Kingdoms of the Isles, had been a haven for Heretics of all kinds. Nestorians, Copts, Arians, Manchisans, and even a few Zoroastrians. The Vandals had been the end of the Earth, as far as running, So these Churches went underground.

Many were the Martyrs of those days, but oddly the Churches thrived, as the Priests, joined the Orthodox***, and then conducted their own services after the orthodox members went home. This lead to a Merging of the Underground Churches, as they borrowed the trapping of the Orthodoxy. 120 years later, they were the Orthodox church in the Vandals.

In the early 600's Islam swirled out of the Arabic Desert, and took Egypt, and approached the walls of Constantinople Itself. The Contact between The Vandals and the East faded and the Vandals were on their own again. But with their own Church, and a sense of togetherness.

In the tenth Century the Byzantines took the Vandals and rejoined them to the Eastern Empire again. only this time there was no push for enforced orthodoxy, as the trapping of the Vandal Churches, were already Orthodox.
In the 7th thru tenth centuries, the Vandals had reached a meeting with the Muslims to their east . This allowed Mosques to exist side by side with the Churches in Vandal Areas. including parts of Southern Italy.
This growth of the Mosques alarmed the Popes, and in 1061 after the Schism with the Orthodox Church they invited the Normans to invade Byzantine Sicily. Under the leadership of Augustus Caesar* 12 powerful Norman Lords took part in the Campaign. By the early 1100's they had taken not only Sicily, but all of the Vandal Isles. At which point they declared there independence from the Papal States, and set up the Normandy League

Religion;
; The Disciple Church,

The Church maintains a Strong Disciple Frame, considering the Pope and Patriarch as a perversion of Jesus' teaching, of his Disciples. the Churches are controlled by boards of local Disciples, who appoint their Pres its, nd elect their officials. Of Course RHIP, and many of the Top Disciples are also the Great Lords.

The Books considered Cannon by the Disciple Church, include 8 Gospels, including Mary's, and most of the Apocrypha, 17 books, Gonitsistic Books [14] and the Pseudepigrapha , and a Book of Mohammad, the Prophet.

[ http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/outside2.stm ]

As such it is considered heretical by the Orthodox, Catholic, and Islamic Churches.

Military:: Each Princedom Maintains Three legions **** Calvary, Infantry, Archers . The Archers use Muskets, and run the Artillery . There is also a League Navy, Mostly Roman style galleys. but with Cannons. It also has about 20.000 men including six legions of Marines.

the Spanish and Italian Inquisitions, not only hunted for Jews, & Moors, but in ATL for Disciples. As such the Disciple Church hates the Spanish Church. And has welcomed Calvinist, and Lutheran Missionaries, thru they haven't had much luck in the Vandal Isles.


*[Family name not title]

** Three Tunis, three Sicily, Two Sardinia, one Corsica, one -each Balearic Islands

*** The best place to meet for Church Services is in a Church. If you don't have one of your own,
Borrow one.

**** each legion is only 800 men, total 22,000 men.

[Ward]

Kingdom of Bavaria
Capotal City Munich
Head of State Maximilian I

Religion is Catholic 68% and Jewish 29% and 3 % other.

POD 1214
Time line The Kingdom is from 1604 .

Lands of the Kingdom Modren Bavaria, Hessen, Baen Wuerttembey and Rheinland Ptalz



History : in 1214 the Wittelsbach were given the lands of Bavaria over the last 400 years the Wittelsbach have open ther lands to Jewish Merchants and Bankers . The lands have growen Rich and for the last 100 years it has been the counter weight in Germany to Austria .

[Ward]

Map of Germay with list of lands Bavaria owns

[DuQuense]

Name
Empire of Romania

Capital
Alexandria [OTL Kiev]

Religion

75% Jewish, 20% Orthodox, 5% Others

In 522 BC. King Alexander was preparing to Invade India, when He received word of a Revolt in Greece lead by Athens, Sparta, & Thebes. Reluctantly He realized He had to return to Greece to Secure his Base. In 520 He Crushed the Rebellion, but was badly injured Himself. It took Him close to a year to recover. And He knew his chance to Conquer India was over. He lived for another twenty Years trying to unify Greece, and promoting settlements around the Black Sea. His Settlements were more successful than his Unification efforts. and his Empire still crumpled upon his death.

Rome still rose, there were the Punic Wars, followed by the conquest of Greece, But here Rome got the whole Black Sea, along with Greece. There were still poor Emperors in the 4th and 5th centuries, and West Rome fell to The Wanderings.

In the 800's the Kagars Took the Area of the Ukraine from the Byzantine Empire, and in the 900's they converted to Judaism.

Over the next 3 centuries the Kagars took on many of the Trapping of the Greek/Roman cities they had conquered. and in the 1200's allied with Roma [Constantinople] against the Mongols.

When the Ottomans conquered Constantinople in 1320, the remains of the Byzantine Empire took refugee in [OTL] Romania. This brought them into conflict with the Ukraine Kagars, who also claimed the area. The Romans may have been beaten by the Ottomans, but they were still able to take on the Kagars and win.

For the last 300 years, the new Empire of Romania has controlled the Northern shore of the Black Sea, and Squabbled with the Ottomans & the Holy Roman Empire over the Balkans, and the Ottomans and Persia over the Caucuses.

Military

Romania Considers itself as The Roman Empire, and It's Military is organized into Legions.
These are mostly Highly disciplined Horse Soldiers, using, Lances, and Swords, in Massed Calvary, Formations. there are Artillery, and Musketeers as Auxiliaries.

With Control of the Black Sea at Stake, The Empire has a large Navy consisting of Galleries of various kinds.

[DuQuense]

this is sorta what whe have so far
whe need Spain, France, Germany, Austria,, Poland, and maybe the Ottomans

[DuQuense]

OK Condo took Spain

[Othniel]

Kingdom of Breton

Capital: Camelot (Caerleon)
Head of State:
Land: Cornwalls, Wales, Somerset, and some other British lands shown in the outlined area on the map
Religion: 64% Celtic Catholic Church, 13% Roman Catholic, 11% Protestant, 8% Jewish, 4% Pagan
History: To King Arthur an hier is born and put in the care of Sir Baudwin of Britain, raising the young Timothy to be a wise youngling. Sir Gaerth is not killed by Lancelot and becomes the regent of Breton. This establises an Authurian Dynasty. They are unfied with Cornwalls, and later some of the lands to the west. (450 AD)
Military: 8000 Infantry under four knights, 1600 calvary under 8 knights, Small professional navy, 2500 Musketeers under 5 commanders, 6 Artillary divisions.

Flag: Red Dragon fighting a Bear on a White Plane

[General_Paul]

Nation: OTL Austria
Borders: OTL + Venice, Saxony, and Brandenberg
History: Its OTL plus a little expansionism in the 1610's leads to the capture of Venice, Saxony, and BRandenberg.

[Imajin]

Order of Knights of the Hospital of St. John of Jerusalem
("Knights Hospitaler" or "Kinghts of Malta")
Territory Held: Malta, Tripoli and a coastal area around it.
Grand Master: Jean Christian de Guyenne
Capital: Malta
Military: 20,000 Knights, spread across Malta and Tripoli. There are also a number of fighting ships, many of which belong to the Italian Republics of Genoa and Venice.
History: The Mamelukes of Egypt managed to remain strong enough to fight off the Ottomans for a longer time. However, Egypt was eventually conquered, but the Ottomans never got into North Africa, causing the 'major' difference that the pirate states did not claim to be part of the Ottoman Empire.
The Kinghts Hospitalier were given the island of Malta to help fight off the pirates of North Africa. This they did, fighting off the Saracen pirates in Tripoli. Currently, they are embroiled in war there.
Flag:
The famous 'Maltese Cross'
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/s/smom-gm.gif

[reformer]

Ok, as the general leader of this game, I probably shouldn't claim an entire major country, but in the meantime I'll take Holland. If someone else really wants it, you can have it. There's also a small chance that I'm about to loose computer access for the next few weeks, in which case I'm out.

In the meantime, we NEED a France, a Protestant Saxony, and the Papal States. If needs be, I'll play one of them. But I'd like to fill them up if possible.

It'd be nice if people claimed some minor German or Italian states (Saxony and the Papal states aren't minor, but perhaps places like say Brandenburg or Tuscany or Genoa etc.) along with your already designed nation. Also, It'd be good gameplay to have a very Protestant state in Italy.

[Imajin]

Hey, we have a France- Half of it anyway... I suppose no one wnats to just ake half of France. Would anyone object to me extending English France over all France?

[Othniel]

Hey, we have a France- Half of it anyway... I suppose no one wnats to just ake half of France. Would anyone object to me extending English France over all France?
There is still time to claim. If nobody has taken all of it by the beginning of the game I'll take Normandy. You should only take the rest if it remains unclaimed.

[Lauranthalas]

Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of Solomon
(better known as the "Knights Templar")
HQ: Jerusalem - Qubbat es-Sakhrah [Dome of the Rock](an Islamic shrine on the summit of Mount Moriah in Jerusalem, which they renamed Templum Domini [Temple of the Lord])
Grand Master: Dominik de Antioch

- the knights, equipped as heavy cavalry; (6,000 Knights)
- the sergeants, equipped as light cavalry and drawn from a lower social class than the knights; (24,000 Sergeants)
- farmers, who administered the property of the Order; (6,000 Farmers + food income and so one comes from the people living in the land)
- the chaplains, who were ordained priests and saw to the spiritual needs of the Order. (12,000 Chaplains)

Religion: Roman Catholic
History:
The Order was founded in 1118 in the Aftermath of the First Crusade. They began as a small order but soon got influencial people in Jerusalem on their side. Within 5 years they had complete control over the city and all of the Country. They began recruiting from the peasents and from many surrounding countries. In other crusades they made themselves a good reputation under Christian nobles and soon after the 3rd Crusade it was one of the biggest honors to be a Knight Templar. They were now hired to help other Christian nations against Muslim and other invaders.
In 1523 the order began to widen the country to the East and took over the trade from the Middle East.

Flag:

[Lauranthalas]

red is the area of the Knights Templar

[Imajin]

There is still time to claim. If nobody has taken all of it by the beginning of the game I'll take Normandy. You should only take the rest if it remains unclaimed.
Well, you can't have Normandy in any case, as it is most certainly part of English France (In fact, the part that has been under English control the longest, or perhaps one could say England is under Norman control?)...

[Lauranthalas]

Well, you can't have Normandy in any case, as it is most certainly part of English France (In fact, the part that has been under English control the longest, or perhaps one could say England is under Norman control?)...
It isn't. I have all norman territories claimed in my Scandinavia

[Imajin]

It isn't. I have all norman territories claimed in my Scandinavia
Um... your map doesn't have them, and anyway, my claim on English France is the first in the thread...

Attached: Slight corrections and additions to the map.

[Lauranthalas]

Um... your map doesn't have them, and anyway, my claim on English France is the first in the thread...

that is exactly what I mean. they are not claimed by the normans because I have the normans and I haven't claimed britain ;)

[Imajin]

that is exactly what I mean. they are not claimed by the normans because I have the normans and I haven't claimed britain ;)
Ah.. I was referring to OTL, actually.. :D

[Othniel]

There is an understanding. Courland belongs to me.... ;)

[reformer]

Actually I'd rather not have France completely under English controll. Its a great location for immediate conflict. Anyway, Richileu is a really really colorful character, and would be great to see in a game. Something relatively close to OTL France would be nice, with our good ol' cardinal thinking he has a superpower, and then loosing half the country.

Someone please take papal sates. . . and Protestant Saxony. . .

[Glen]

Well, I have to cut back my online activities so I must demur on this wonderful rebirth of MEuro.

If I were to have played, I would have taken the Duchy of Savoy, Switzerland, and the Tyrol to form the Uber Swiss Confederation, complete with navy ;)

[reformer]

Isn't this a little too early for frigates? Naval warfare hadn't fully adjusted to gunpowder yet. . . I think. Not sure. Numbers seem ok though.

[Lauranthalas]

Isn't this a little too early for frigates? Naval warfare hadn't fully adjusted to gunpowder yet. . . I think. Not sure. Numbers seem ok though.
they did. technology there I am good. they had gunpowder already for 2 centuries in use in europe OTL. and frigates were basically invented to outrun ships and still being able to fight them what corvettes can't do cause they are too small

ok thanks

[reformer]

sorry, my bad.

[Imajin]

Attempt at a "Better" Map...

[Othniel]

Can you color the ocean a darker color?

[Imajin]

Like this?

[Bulgaroktonos]

Okay, on army size guys, lets get a few things straight.

Armies have still not adapted to the creation of the nation-state. If you have an Army of 110,000, that's insane. ESPECIALLY national armies (a rarity in itself). Gustavus Adolphus had an army of 20,000. Wallenstein was a mercenary who had 30,000 to possibly 100,000.

There is no way anybody is going to have a national army of over 30,000. If they have 100,000, at least 60,000 is going to be mercenary. And if you have that many mercenaries, you are in big trouble..........

[Lauranthalas]

Okay, on army size guys, lets get a few things straight.

Armies have still not adapted to the creation of the nation-state. If you have an Army of 110,000, that's insane. ESPECIALLY national armies (a rarity in itself). Gustavus Adolphus had an army of 20,000. Wallenstein was a mercenary who had 30,000 to possibly 100,000.

There is no way anybody is going to have a national army of over 30,000. If they have 100,000, at least 60,000 is going to be mercenary. And if you have that many mercenaries, you are in big trouble..........
that's why I asked

[Matt]

Agreed with bulg... I'm just checking up, not going to play(unless you give me muskets and the Irish) and 100,000 is unheard of until the Naploeanic era.

[Othniel]

Military: 8000 Infantry under four knights, 1600 calvary under 8 knights, Small professional navy, 2500 Musketeers under 5 commanders, 6 Artillary divisions.

Does that work Bulg? 12,100 plus artillary & a small navy is probably a bit high, especially since they are smaller than the Romanian Armada.....I should half that?

[Lauranthalas]

Imajin

I changed one Island which is my possession and pretty important

[reformer]

Has Austria actually been claimed? Also, I thought that Bavaria had its 19th century borders, not all of southern Germany. . .

[Imajin]

Has Austria actually been claimed? Also, I thought that Bavaria had its 19th century borders, not all of southern Germany. . .
I believe GP took Austria (Along with Saxony and Brandenburg), and Ward's opst gave Bavaria most of southern Germany (Except the Saar)

[reformer]

No, the map of Bavaria doesn't have all of southern France, at least not the part with Baden.

Ok, with Saxony and Brandenburg in Austrian hands, we need a Protestant counterweight in the area, Mecklinburg or Hessen are the most obvious, though possibly Hannover or Hamburg. Feel free to take as many countries as you like at this point. Would love to see a Soctland somewhere, but that's your guyses choice. If nobody claimes the rest of England, it goes to Imajin from his English France TL. Tuscany, Papal States, Naples, and Poland, along with many other states still open. More importantly France.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Unless MBarry really wants Ireland, I'm going to grab it. Sir James Fitzmaurice (distant relative I believe) and the Earls of Desmond are going to be a mite more successful, I'll have something up later

[Matt]

Go for it Bulg... This time period continues to fail to grab my interest.

[Imajin]

No, the map of Bavaria doesn't have all of southern France, at least not the part with Baden.
His post says it does, though.

[reformer]

Sorry, I guess I just keep on missing posts :( I was juding from the map he gave. Yikes I'm bad.

But seriously, NO ONe has yet to claim a Protestant country.

[Imajin]

I'm confused by Greater Scandinavia's religion. With a POD so late, shouldn't it be Christian? What exactly is 'Nordic'?

[Lauranthalas]

I'm confused by Greater Scandinavia's religion. With a POD so late, shouldn't it be Christian? What exactly is 'Nordic'?
The nordic religion is basically what the Vikings and other Normans believed in. But as far as I know didn't they convert to christianity in the during the Union of Kalmar due to the Danish influence? so I figured since the Danish do not have as much influence since they were expelled from the union they should not be converted.

OK here a new military approved by Bulg. Just the support I'm gonna post later because he groups less things to be done under suport than I do.

Military: 21,000

Army: 8,000

heavy Cavalry/Knights: 300
armor: heavy cuirasses (1/2 metal chain, 1/2 plate)
weapons: Lance & Longswort, Dagger

light Cavalry: 500
armor: light cuirasses
weapons: Lance & Longsword, Dagger

Artillery: 500
armor: metal chain shirts
weapons: Dagger, Shortsword
Artillery pieces: 69
Cannon Royal: (stolen design from the Russians) 890mmx5,34m caliber, needs 20 men each, 5 pieces

to defend the Royal Palace in Oslo
18 pounders: (10 men each) 70 men (7 pieces)
12 pounders: (10 men each) 90 men (9 pieces)
9 pounders: (5 men each) 100 men (20 pieces)
6 pounders: (5 men each) 140 men (28 pieces)

Infantry: 6,700
armor: light cuirasses
weapons: Lances (1,200), Arquebus (900), Crossbow (700), Bow (600), Longsword (2,300), Battleaxe

(1,000), Dagger (everyone)



Navy: 13,000 (135 vessels)
Battleships: 4
Galleons: (435 men each) 1,740 men

Cruisers: 18
Barque: (210 men each) 2,310 men (11 ships)
Longship: (150 men each) 1,050 men (7 ships)

Frigates: 33
Frigate: (100 men each) 3,300 men

Corvettes: 50
Caravel: (80 men each) 800 men
Corvette: (70 men each) 2,100 men
Xebec: (50 men each) 500 men

Transporters: 30
Cog: (40 men each) 800 men
Flute: (40 men each) 400 men


merchant navy: 3,000

Snow: (20 men each) 600 men (30 ships)
Cog: (40 men each) 600 men (15 ships)
Brig: (60 men each) 1,800 men (30 ships)

[Imajin]

Nope, Sweden converted to Christianity in the 11th Century, around the time it was unified and Finland conquered.

[Bulgaroktonos]

However Laur, the thing is, if you take Christianity out of the equation, you are going to get a much different army........and nation.......

[Ward]

Has Austria actually been claimed? Also, I thought that Bavaria had its 19th century borders, not all of southern Germany. . .


If you read my Boarders I did claim all southern Germany.

[DuQuense]

Austria has not been claimed

I'm dropping my Romania and taking Poland/Lithuania if no one objects.

[reformer]

Go ahead with Poland. Someone PLEASE play a Protestant country.

Yah, Scandinavia is bassically destined to become Christian. Perhaps a very superstius christianity like we see in Oth's Breton? To me, the way the Scandinavian infrostructure worked, I have trouble seeing that area become anything but Protestant, and if we're keeping a Nordic faith, I need to see a more detailed TL.

[DuQuense]

opps GP Sorry missed page two.

Baldar the White God was a attempt to incorporate Christs into the Asgardian Gods.
perhaps a more successful. attempt, Odin All-Father, as Father of Christ.

[Ward]

The Cathlic church in Bavaria is going to be like the Church of England but insteed the Church of the Kingdom of Bavaria

[DuQuense]

3. THE NOBLE REPUBLIC, 1572-1795
Although most accounts of Polish history show the two centuries after the end of the Jagiellon Dynasty as a time of decline leading to foreign domination, Poland-Lithuania remained an influential player in European politics and a vital cultural entity through most of the period.
The Elective Monarchy
The death of Sigismund II Augustus in 1572 was followed by a three-year Interregnum during which adjustments were made in the constitutional system. The lower nobility was now included in the selection process, and the power of the monarch was further circumscribed in favor of the expanded noble class. From that point, the king was effectively a partner with the noble class and constantly supervised by a group of senators. Once the Jagiellons passed from the scene, the fragile equilibrium of the commonwealth government began to go awry. The constitutional reforms made the monarchy electoral in fact as well as name. As more and more power went to the noble electors, it also eroded from the government's center.
In its periodic opportunities to fill the throne, the szlachta exhibited a preference for foreign candidates who would not found another strong dynasty. This policy produced monarchs who were either totally ineffective or in constant debilitating conflict with the nobility. Furthermore, aside from notable exceptions such as the able Transylvanian Stefan Batory (1576-86), the kings of alien origin were inclined to subordinate the interests of the commonwealth to those of their own country and ruling house. This tendency was most obvious in the prolonged military adventures waged by Sigismund III Vasa (1587-1632) against Russia and his native Sweden. On occasion, these campaigns brought Poland near to conquest of Muscovy and the Baltic coast, but they compounded the military burden imposed by the ongoing rivalry with the Turks, and the Swedes and Russians extracted heavy repayment a few decades later.

POD
Sigismund III Vasa ( King- 1587-1607] dies in a Hunting Accident, when his Horse Stumbles landing over a Fence. Feed up with the prolonged Militarism of Sigismund III Vasa and not willing to see another Swede on the Throne , the Szlachta turned to France, choosing a young 22 year old son of a Duc. Armand Jean Du Plessis, whom the Szlachta thought they could control. With his fathers Blessing young Armand Jean gave up his position as heir to the Duc de Richelieu, and was Crowned King of Poland. Armand Jean throws Himself totally into the Role, and working to ensure the Wellbeing of his new Country. It was not long before the Szlachta began to realize their Mistake.

I'm still researching polish military 1600. will post more later

[DuQuense]

?would Denmark count as a small Protestant State?

[reformer]

Yes. Definately. In fact, Denmark was an important Protestant state in the 30s years war, and held back Austria for a while, long enough to get the Sweeds involved.

If we do have a nordic Scandinavia, the Nordic religion has to be mainly Christianised and recognised by either the Patriach, the Pope, or one of the major Protestant religions. Same goes with Oth's Celtic Christianity. Remember, churches might recognise more dubious faiths just to exspand their influence.

[reformer]

The Cathlic church in Bavaria is going to be like the Church of England but insteed the Church of the Kingdom of Bavaria

Will it be kinda halfway between Catholisism and Protestantism the way the Church of England was? Also, why did the split happen?

[DuQuense]

I should have under lined the Small. That is what I was asking about. But looking at the map posted for Bavaria, it is no bigger than some of the other states shown there.

IIRC the Correct term for the Norse religion is Asgardian.

[reformer]

There are enough states left that you don't really have to worry about having too many nations. Please do Denmark. There are also many smaller German protestant stats in northern Germany that I'm hoping will get picked up.

[Lauranthalas]

Well ok since I had there a mistake in my knowledge it is more plausible for Scandinavia to be Protestant. I am sorry for the change but it probably should be christian then and so it shall be.

[Othniel]

3. THE NOBLE REPUBLIC, 1572-1795
Although most accounts of Polish history show the two centuries after the end of the Jagiellon Dynasty as a time of decline leading to foreign domination, Poland-Lithuania remained an influential player in European politics and a vital cultural entity through most of the period.
The Elective Monarchy
The death of Sigismund II Augustus in 1572 was followed by a three-year Interregnum during which adjustments were made in the constitutional system. The lower nobility was now included in the selection process, and the power of the monarch was further circumscribed in favor of the expanded noble class. From that point, the king was effectively a partner with the noble class and constantly supervised by a group of senators. Once the Jagiellons passed from the scene, the fragile equilibrium of the commonwealth government began to go awry. The constitutional reforms made the monarchy electoral in fact as well as name. As more and more power went to the noble electors, it also eroded from the government's center.
In its periodic opportunities to fill the throne, the szlachta exhibited a preference for foreign candidates who would not found another strong dynasty. This policy produced monarchs who were either totally ineffective or in constant debilitating conflict with the nobility. Furthermore, aside from notable exceptions such as the able Transylvanian Stefan Batory (1576-86), the kings of alien origin were inclined to subordinate the interests of the commonwealth to those of their own country and ruling house. This tendency was most obvious in the prolonged military adventures waged by Sigismund III Vasa (1587-1632) against Russia and his native Sweden. On occasion, these campaigns brought Poland near to conquest of Muscovy and the Baltic coast, but they compounded the military burden imposed by the ongoing rivalry with the Turks, and the Swedes and Russians extracted heavy repayment a few decades later.

POD
Sigismund III Vasa ( King- 1587-1607] dies in a Hunting Accident, when his Horse Stumbles landing over a Fence. Feed up with the prolonged Militarism of Sigismund III Vasa and not willing to see another Swede on the Throne , the Szlachta turned to France, choosing a young 22 year old son of a Duc. Armand Jean Du Plessis, whom the Szlachta thought they could control. With his fathers Blessing young Armand Jean gave up his position as heir to the Duc de Richelieu, and was Crowned King of Poland. Armand Jean throws Himself totally into the Role, and working to ensure the Wellbeing of his new Country. It was not long before the Szlachta began to realize their Mistake.

I'm still researching polish military 1600. will post more later
I have plenty of stuff in the chat thread.

[Othniel]

Yes. Definately. In fact, Denmark was an important Protestant state in the 30s years war, and held back Austria for a while, long enough to get the Sweeds involved.

If we do have a nordic Scandinavia, the Nordic religion has to be mainly Christianised and recognised by either the Patriach, the Pope, or one of the major Protestant religions. Same goes with Oth's Celtic Christianity. Remember, churches might recognise more dubious faiths just to exspand their influence.
Celtic Christianity is basically what was used in Ireland, Wales and Scotland and still exsists to this day. It was reconized by the pope as a faith. Besides Balvaria is a protestant nation. Calvinism is one form of protestantism. I guess I can play as a Hugonaunt France....

[reformer]

Go for it. Please.

[DuQuense]

The "Hetman" Commanders
Until the 15th Century the command of the Polish army was usually held by the King or delegated to a suitable knight, however a more permanent position for an experienced commander was needed. Already in 1410 the term "Hetman" appears, being derived from the Czech hejtman (German - hauptmann). The title was generally used to describe a higher command, but in 1433 the title Hetman of the Grand Royal army is mentioned and from then on becomes quite common. By the start of the 16th Century the structure of the army's command had evolved. There were two Grand Hetmans, one for the Royal and one for the Lithuanian army; each had an assistant called a Field Hetman who would command the artillery or the army in the Grand Hetman's absence. The Grand Hetman's position became very powerful and the command included a military court with powers to judge and punish. Later the position became even greater, with land titles and significant independence. In the late 16th Century Jan Zamojski was made Grand Royal Hetman until "the last hour of his life" and this status remained for all later Grand Hetmans. Some famous Hetmans:
Jan Tarnowski (1488-1561, Grand Royal Hetman from 1527). Victor at Obertyn (1531) against the Moldavians and at Starodub (1535) against the Muscovites. He developed, among other things, headquarters services, horse artillery, field hospitals at Royal expense and a corps of sappers. He preached a doctrine of flexibility.

Jan Zamoyski (Grand Royal Hetman 1581-1605). He successfully defended Krakow (1587) against the Austrians, defeating them at Byczyna (1588). He defeated the Wallachians at Bukowa (1600) and captured the Swedish held towns of Wolmar, Felin and Bialy Kamien in the war for Livonia (1601-1602).


Jan Karol Chodkiewicz (1560-1621, Grand Lithuanian Hetman from 1605). Victor against the Swedes at Bialy Kamien (1604) and Kircholm (1605), and at Chocim (1621) against the Turks, where he died of illness.

Stanislaw Zolkewski (1547-1620, Grand Royal Hetman from 1613). Smashed a massive Muscovite army at Kluszyn (1609) which opened the road to Moscow, was killed at Cecora (1620) against the Turks. With Chodkiewicz he defeated a rebel army at Guzow (1607).


Stanislaw Koniecpolski (1591-1646, Royal Field Hetman from 1618 and Grand Royal Hetman from 1632). He was present at Cecora where he was captured. Victor against the Tatars at Martynow (1624) and Ochmatow (1644), he fought a successful campaign against a Cossack rebellion (1625) and halted Turkish invasion forces at Kamienic Podolski (1634 and 1635). With only weak forces he fought Gustav Adolphus to a stalemate in Prussia, defeating him at Trzcina (1629).


THE HISTORY OF POLAND: THE POLISH ARMY (1550-1683)

Polish armies had to operate in all types of terrain and climates (baking plains in the south to freezing bogs and forests in the north, wilderness or city). The enemy varied from slow-moving pikemen and musketeers to nimble, swift-attacking horsemen and invariably the fighting was far from home and lacking in ancillary services. Polish military thinking was therefore based on the ideas of mobility, adaptability and self-sufficiency.
The old Hussite idea of forming a gigantic square, a mobile fortress quickly formed if caught out in the open, became standard practice in all operations against Tartars and Turks. The Poles also devised the idea of operating in divisions since this gave them all-important mobility and ability to live off the land (this was at a time when most European armies marched in a great mass). Another tradition was that of the deep cavalry raid sweeping ahead of the main army, sometimes covering a thousand miles in a great arc behind enemy lines. The crux of any battle was the cavalry charge, not a massed attack by heavy armour, but light cavalry supported by artillery, probing for weak points to be exploited by the heavy cavalry deployed in a chequerboard pattern so that the bringing down of one rank or section did not affect the others.
The Poles set great store by artillery and were years in advance of their enemies until the eighteenth century, using light cannon with accurate bombardment and mobility being the crucial factors. They also used rocketry to great effect (Siemienowicz published a treatise on multi-stage rocketry in 1650!).
The infantry was lightly dressed without helmets or armour and armed with musket, short sword and hatchet. Only one man in eight carried a pike. In the 1550's a Polish regiment of 200 men could fire 150 shots in five minutes (contemporary Spanish brigades of 10,000 men could only deliver 750 in the same time)! Polish infantry possessed ten times greater firepower on a man-to-man basis than standard European infantries.
The cavalry was the backbone of the Commonwealth's military power, outnumbering the infantry by three to one. The crossed Turkish and European breeds to produce horses with speed and endurance, and rode on eastern saddles in order to place less strain on the horse. Because of these factors they could cover tremendous distances (upto 120 kilometres a day) without killing their mounts. Their curved sabres were the finest cutting weapon ever in use in a European army and accounted for their endurance in battle.
The pride and glory of the cavalry, its mailed first, was the Husaria, the winged cavalry. Operating in regiments of about 300, the front rank carried an astonishing lance of up to twenty feet in length (thus outreaching infantry pikes and allowing the Husaria to cut straight through an enemy square). They also carried a sabre or rapier with a six - foot blade (another weapon which was unique to the Poles!), as well as a pair of pistols, a short carbine, a bow and arrows and a variety of other weapons, the most lethal of which was the "czekan", a long steel hammer which could go through heads and helmets like butter!
The ultimate weapon of the Husaria was psychological. As well as wearing helmets, thick steel breastplates and shoulder and arm guards the Husaria also wore wings; great wooden arcs bristling with eagle feathers attached to the back of the saddle or the shoulders. Over their shoulders they wore the skin of a tiger or leopard as a cloak. Their harnesses, saddles and horse-cloths were embroidered and embellished with gold and gems and their long lances were painted with stripes like a stick of rock and decorated with a five-foot-long silk pennant which, along with the wings and jingling jewellery, made a frightful sound (described as "an evil hiss" by some) and sight during the charge. They even sometimes painted their horses red and white!
For over a century, the Husaria were the lords of the battlefield, delivering the decisive blow in many an important engagement; at Kircholm (1605) 4,000 Poles accounted for 14,000 Swedes, at Klushino (1610) 6,000 Poles (of only 200 were infantry) defeated 30,000 Muscovite and 5,000 German and Scottish mercenaries, at Gniew (1656) 5,500 Polish cavalry defeated 13,000 Swedes and outside Vienna (1683) the Husaria saved Europe from the, until then, unstoppable might of the Ottoman Empire.
After Vienna every lancer must be a Pole or dress like one, and since there were not enough Poles to go round armies were compelled to raise their own lancers dressed and equipped on the Polish model. Napoleon had his Polish lancers who rendered him good service, especially at Somo Sierra in Spain (when a squadron of 125 men cleared 9,000 entrenched infantry and four batteries in the space of seven minutes) and once again the Poles were able to inspire the rest of Europe. There have been few more gorgeously dressed soldiers in all the history of armies than the lancers of the nineteenth century. The lance cap was modelled on the Polish style and even called the "chapka" (hat). The short, double-breasted jacket of scarlet or blue was similarly known as a "ulanka" and German and Austrian lancers were called "uhlans". To the glittering uniforms, waving plumes, and splendidly caparisoned saddle-cloths there was also added the colour and flutter of the waving lance pennant.

=========================================

Northern army Facing Sweden
2,150 hussars, 3,290 Cossack cavalry, 2,515 western infantry, 1,620 Polish infantry, 1,265 dragoons and 2,000 Zaporozhian Cossacks.

Eastern Army facing Moscow
3,120 hussars, 4,260 Cossack cavalry, 1,700 western cavalry, 10,500 western infantry, 1,040 dragoons, 2,200 Polish infantry and a few thousand Zaporozhian infantry.

Western Army facing Austria
3,200 hussars, 1,330 Cossack cavalry, 800 Polish or Hungarian infantry, 1,240 wybraniecka infantry.

Southern Army facing Turks.
12,180 cavalry (including 4,180 hussars), 7,500 Polish infantry (large number of private troops), 5,500 western infantry, 3,460 dragoons and 16,000 Zaporozhian Cossacks.

Notes:
Cossack cavalry comprises medium and light Polish cavalry but can also include other light cavalry in small numbers.
'Western troops' are generally German mercenaries pre-1633 and foreign section troops later.

[Imajin]

I guess I can play as a Hugonaunt France....
How would a Hugenuot France deal with the fact that it's coastline is both staunchly Catholic and claims to be ruled by the English...
You know what, alter my claim on English France to include all of England that's left after Othniel's Bretony as well...

[Imajin]

Hey, DuQuense, what kind of borders does your Poland-Lithuania have? I'd like to update the map, you see...

[DuQuense]

Look at the Poland map on page one, everything south of Sweden north of the Crimea Knanate, west of Austria, and east of the Tzardom of Moscow.

[Imajin]

So something like this?

[DuQuense]

except Prussia is a Duchy of Poland and the Zartion Cossacks are part of Poland down there west of the Crimea Khanate. Khanate a Little narrower

[Mayhem]

Slot my "Angry Serbian Horse Nomad Mercenaries" (See MEuro Chat) in around modern Yugoslavia & Croatia, bits of Romania too, mebbe.
As said on the other thread, I dont have much exp wiv 1600s, so any help regarding specifics in terms of POD & plausibility would be very friendly and appreciated.
Nite all, it's 3am here.

[DuQuense]

Forget the bottom Just color in Prussia, the bottom was in flux anyway OTL

And Color in Denmark down to the bottom of that little V. Will Post it later this evening.

[Condottiero]

In fact my territory would be the Republic of Hispania (the comuneros defeated Charles V and declared a republic) and the Sultanate of Fez (some islamic pirates and slavists will be funny).

[reformer]

Mecklenburg: POD, 1623 or so:

Denmark refuses to come to the aid of the German Protestant states, and most of Germany falls under Austrian controll. The remaining Protestant states in the north have rallied around a clergyman, who has brought on a rather fanatical Protestant Lutherna revival. The Duke of Mecklenburg now has controll of his own armies, plus the armies formerlly under Brandenburg and Saxon controll. Army, 17,00, 7,000 Saxon in the southern border, 4,000 troops from elsewhere in Germany plus Brandenburg, 3,000 troops from Mecklenburg, and the rest are mercinaries.

Land:Includes Mecklenburg, the eastern part of Niedersachen (or however you spell it) through and including Hamburg, and northern Brandernburg (ISOTed over Austria)

Ok, I'd love to see more nations popping up in Italy especially, and filling Germnay.. I'm claiming the Neatherlands region, including Belgium and Luxemburg. Bassicaly slightly exspanded, and filling in the white gap there.

[DuQuense]

Name
Denmark

Ruler
Christian ??

POD: 1389
Religion: Calvinist; minorities: Lutheran, Catholic, Protestant , Orthodox
History:
After the unliked Swedish King Albert of Mecklenburg was defeated by the Danish and Swedish nobles private armies the Union of Kalmar was formed. But soon after the Norwegians and Swedish agreed to exclude the Danish because of their many wars against northern German nations. This pleased the Hanseatic Union and the relations between the Union of Kalmar and the Hanseatic Union got better. In 1398 Finland asked to be part of the Union. In 1399 Finland became official member of the Union.

Meanwhile Denmark turned South, Becoming More and More involved in affairs and wars with the various German States, By the late 1500's Denmark controlled most of northern Germany from the United Provinces in the West, to Poland in the east. Along the way, Denmark became another German State, Even the Language has become more German than Nordic.

In 1547 John Calvin Fleeing the Catholic Church in France, Arrived in Denmark. His Plain vision of God and his call for hard work, being rewarded in this World, struck a Chord in the Danes. When the King publicly converted to Calvinism in 1577, Denmark became Officially Calvinist.

In 1620's Denmark has a very large Merchant Fleet, trading around the World, and a Large Navy to protect it.

The Cavalry
At the start of the war there are 18 Danish cavalry units, 1 Drabantgarde (1 company), 2 regiments of Guard Horse, 11 of Horse, 2 of Dragoons (one of which is a Guard) and 2 units of Landmilitia Dragoons. All but two of the regiments, one of the horse - the 1st Jyske has 4 companies and the Drabantgarde has 1 company, have 6 companies. The companies were meant to be 67 strong, which with staff gave a total of 415 men (281 for the 1st Jyske and 57 for the Drabantgarde). Considerable variations on these strengths existed in the field.

The Infantry
The Danish infantry at the start of the war consisted of two parts, the regular army and the 'National' or 'Landmilitia' regiments.

The regular army was made up of 11 regiments, including a regiment of Foot Guards. 8 Regiments have three Battalions, 2 had two and 1 had one. While battalions Have, 5 musketeer companies and a grenadier company attached. There were 103 men in a musketeer company (while the grenadiers had 112 men. Thus battalions have a nominal strength in the region of 600 to 700, although of course this size could be reduced by attrition, etc.
The Grenaderkorps:
This had 12 companies in two battalions, for a total of about 1300 men.

-The 'Imperial' Regiments: a contingent of Danish troops that were to be hired out to the Holy Roman Empire 4 Regiments each Regiment consists of
2 battalions Infantry, 1 company Grenaderkrops, plus Artillery

The 'National' or 'Landmilitia' Regiments: These units were raised at the start of the war from a cadre of troops. There were 8 regiments of these troops, each of which has 3 battalions. Battalions have four companies of 161 men, including 8 grenadiers - giving an official strength of about 650, although of course in the field this strength would be unlikely.

The Artillery
The Danish army is one of the armies of the period that used 'battalion' guns, i.e. small pieces that were attached directly to a unit.
Copenhagen 32 pieces in total. 16 3pdr guns , 6 4pdr guns , 4 6pdr guns, 3 12pdrs guns and 3 howitzers.
Imperial Regiments; 43 pieces in total, 3, 4 and 6 pdrs.




The Light is a Idea of Denmark pre ISOT, The Dark is post ISOT

[Condottiero]

Name
Denmark

Ruler
Christian ??

POD: 1389
Religion: Calvinist; minorities: Lutheran, Catholic, Protestant , Orthodox
History:
After the unliked Swedish King Albert of Mecklenburg was defeated by the Danish and Swedish nobles private armies the Union of Kalmar was formed. But soon after the Norwegians and Swedish agreed to exclude the Danish because of their many wars against northern German nations. This pleased the Hanseatic Union and the relations between the Union of Kalmar and the Hanseatic Union got better. In 1398 Finland asked to be part of the Union. In 1399 Finland became official member of the Union.

Meanwhile Denmark turned South, Becoming More and More involved in affairs and wars with the various German States, By the late 1500's Denmark controlled most of northern Germany from the United Provinces in the West, to Poland in the east. Along the way, Denmark became another German State, Even the Language has become more German than Nordic.

In 1547 John Calvin Fleeing the Catholic Church in France, Arrived in Denmark. His Plain vision of God and his call for hard work, being rewarded in this World, struck a Chord in the Danes. When the King publicly converted to Calvinism in 1577, Denmark became Officially Calvinist.

In 1620's Denmark has a very large Merchant Fleet, trading around the World, and a Large Navy to protect it.

The Cavalry
At the start of the war there are 18 Danish cavalry units, 1 Drabantgarde (1 company), 2 regiments of Guard Horse, 11 of Horse, 2 of Dragoons (one of which is a Guard) and 2 units of Landmilitia Dragoons. All but two of the regiments, one of the horse - the 1st Jyske has 4 companies and the Drabantgarde has 1 company, have 6 companies. The companies were meant to be 67 strong, which with staff gave a total of 415 men (281 for the 1st Jyske and 57 for the Drabantgarde). Considerable variations on these strengths existed in the field.

The Infantry
The Danish infantry at the start of the war consisted of two parts, the regular army and the 'National' or 'Landmilitia' regiments.

The regular army was made up of 11 regiments, including a regiment of Foot Guards. 8 Regiments have three Battalions, 2 had two and 1 had one. While battalions Have, 5 musketeer companies and a grenadier company attached. There were 103 men in a musketeer company (while the grenadiers had 112 men. Thus battalions have a nominal strength in the region of 600 to 700, although of course this size could be reduced by attrition, etc.
The Grenaderkorps:
This had 12 companies in two battalions, for a total of about 1300 men.

-The 'Imperial' Regiments: a contingent of Danish troops that were to be hired out to the Holy Roman Empire 4 Regiments each Regiment consists of
2 battalions Infantry, 1 company Grenaderkrops, plus Artillery

The 'National' or 'Landmilitia' Regiments: These units were raised at the start of the war from a cadre of troops. There were 8 regiments of these troops, each of which has 3 battalions. Battalions have four companies of 161 men, including 8 grenadiers - giving an official strength of about 650, although of course in the field this strength would be unlikely.

The Artillery
The Danish army is one of the armies of the period that used 'battalion' guns, i.e. small pieces that were attached directly to a unit.
Copenhagen 32 pieces in total. 16 3pdr guns , 6 4pdr guns , 4 6pdr guns, 3 12pdrs guns and 3 howitzers.
Imperial Regiments; 43 pieces in total, 3, 4 and 6 pdrs.




The Light is a Idea of Denmark pre ISOT, The Dark is post ISOT

A bit early for grenades. By this time you should only have pike and shot (a maximum of two thirds of harquebusiers/musketeers).

[Mayhem]

Too much research.
I'll look into Swiss Savoy instead, and research Naples too.

I call a tentative shotgun on those two areas, but if anyone has better ideas, go for it.

[Glen]

Too much research.
I'll look into Swiss Savoy instead, and research Naples too.

I call a tentative shotgun on those two areas, but if anyone has better ideas, go for it.

If you're going for a super-Swiss Confederation, I advise taking the Duchy of Savoy including Nice, and ask if you can have the Tyrol from Austria. It would be way cool!

[Mayhem]

That's what I was thinking; perhaps following the First War of Kappel (Not really a war, but meh), the treaty states, instead of "Cuius regio, eius religio" (religion of ruler=religion of region), they institute full religious freedom throughout the cantons, this being institutionalised with a referendum. There's large movements of people among the cantons, leading to the minoritisation of Catholics in some of the Alpine Cantons. The Catholic institutions of these Alpine Cantons, who were strongly against the referendum, call to the Catholic Duchy of Savoy for aid, which is granted, as the Savoyard armies march into Valais (as liberators to the locals), trying to force the Confederation into a regime of "Cuius Regio..." if not full Catholicism.
The Swiss Federal government doesn't stand for this, calling to France for aid. Although France is Catholic, the Swiss Guard is used as a bargaining tool, as well as the assistance of Switzerland to the Valois family should any conflict arise with or between the Houses of Guise and Bourbon. De Medici sees the value of Swiss aid to counterbalance the troublesome Guise, and France turns on Savoy, winning the brief resultant war. The House of Savoy is deposed, and influential Swiss politicians ensure that Savoyard territory is annexed to Switzerland, with French aid. The Alps area of the Dauphine and Nice as well are also granted to the Swiss as a protectorate, as repayment for intervention in 1568 to enforce the Treaty of Longjumeau.

Thus far... Not sure how they might get the Tyol tho. Perhaps a deal with Austria (OTL Austria-Catholic alliance stands after Peace of Kappel mebbe), or France-Austrian tension... Help? :D

[Mayhem]

Here's the preliminary map including the Swiss Confederation, not including Tyrol. I'll need to talk to whoever has Huguenot France about the Alps regions, tho. :)

[Mayhem]

Remind me; for MEuro what's the deal with ISOT military? Re: Helvetian Mercenaries serving elsewhere, do they count as *my* military for ISOT purposes? Just considering the best Swiss troops will be under foreign command (mainly French) ATL, I might be at a severe disadvantage...

[Condottiero]

My Spain are in fact two territories: Republic of Hispania and Sultanate of Fez

[DuQuense]

A bit early for grenades. By this time you should only have pike and shot (a maximum of two thirds of harquebusiers/musketeers).

I copied a page I found on the net and rewrote it , So whe change the Grenadiers to Musketeers

[reformer]

No, mercenaries out of your country do not ISOT with you. Your soldiers elsewhere and citizens return to the nearest border, if possible to a fort or military camp of some kind.

How much longer do you think you all will need to finish up? I'd still love people who already have countries to claim some small areas in Italy or Germany or north Afica. Also, someone promissed an Ireland. . . . Also, I need to post my Neatherlands, don't I

[Glen]

No, mercenaries out of your country do not ISOT with you. Your soldiers elsewhere and citizens return to the nearest border, if possible to a fort or military camp of some kind.

If your soldiers and citizens ISOT with you, why wouldn't your citizens who are serving as mercenaries in other nations? I'd say that if you have mercenaries serving in your country at the time you ISOT, they come with you, and if you have your citizens serving as mercenaries outside your country at the time of ISOT, they come back to you.

Otherwise, I'd just say that what's in the ISOT area ISOTs, and what isn't doesn't. Of course, that is just me, and reformer is running this show...

[reformer]

Ok, your troops and citizens outside your country return to the border. Mercinaries from your own country return to the border. But if you have, say, Scotish mercinaries working for Denmark, then unless they are inside your border, they are not ISOTed.

Speaking of which, considering how important mercinaries are, we should probably have two countries, a Catholic and a Protestant, that serve bassically only the purpose of selling mercinaries. Scotland and maybe Tuscany might make sense.

Also, has Ireland been posted?

[Imajin]

If Switzerland is Protestant or doesn't feel like being mercernary, you could always buy some from Cisalpinia...

[reformer]

Switzerland is being played as a normall country, so if you'd be willing to sell mercinaries, that would be great. I'm not saying that you can't play your country or anything like that though.

[Mayhem]

Yay! I get all my Swiss Guards back, teeheehee>
Thx, makes life easier.
With regards to any mercenary issuse, Switzerland ATL is nominally TOLERANT, as I had the POD being total religious tolerance (yay for ASBs). But, their mercenaries are mainly working with catholic countries, so I guess religion becomes less of a factor. After a generation or two of intermingling, I guess people would stop really caring who's who among Christians, and just be happy there's no Muslims running around :)
So, "Welcome to Switzerland, Mercenaries R Us"

[Glen]

Yay! I get all my Swiss Guards back, teeheehee>
Thx, makes life easier.
With regards to any mercenary issuse, Switzerland ATL is nominally TOLERANT, as I had the POD being total religious tolerance (yay for ASBs). But, their mercenaries are mainly working with catholic countries, so I guess religion becomes less of a factor. After a generation or two of intermingling, I guess people would stop really caring who's who among Christians, and just be happy there's no Muslims running around :)
So, "Welcome to Switzerland, Mercenaries R Us"

Basically, the number of Swiss in the world is about to multiply with ISOT. What will they do with all those fine young mountain boys out there earning money and gaining military experience? ;)

[Mayhem]

Basically, the number of Swiss in the world is about to multiply with ISOT. What will they do with all those fine young mountain boys out there earning money and gaining military experience? ;)

*Insert evil laughter here*
The mighty Swiss armies will lay waste to your puny National Armies! :D

[reformer]

Ok, my more major country: the Dutch Republic:

POD: The originall Dutch revolt, led by William the Silent is marginally sucessful. It goes far enough that the surrounding countries take notice, and the Republic gains international support. When the Spanish begin to retake Holland, many Protestant English head to the Neatherlands to get away from Queen Mary. France eyes the Catholic part of Flanders lovingly, and offers strong military support. A France-Spanish war comes along soon after in OTL anyway. The Dutch Republic is victorious, and requests that the French leave. The French, who have gained some support around Belgium, refuse to leave. They become harsh occupiers, and stay for about 20 years. During this time, the French become very unpopular, and the local Catholics start to convert to Calvinism.

A largescale revolt rises up, and the Republic invandes. They get unofficial military and economic backing from Elizabeth. Spain offers some assistance to France after about a year and a half. France is already exstremely week, and eventually pulls out, fearing a full scale war with England. Spain then decides to send more troops, and tries to retake the Neatherlands. A eight year war starts up, and the Neatherlands are polverised. Eventually the war takes up too many rescorces, and Spain retreats. As the Republic exspands diplomaticaly, they get into a trade dispute with England like they did severall years later OTL. They fight a mostly land battle that once again drains the economy. Eventually England wins, and the Republic pays a huge fine.

The Dutch Republic at this point has been under almost constant attack for severall decades, and most of its citizens are complete fanatics. The REpublic bassically becomes an exstreme theocracy, and Catholics are treated exstrememly poorly.

It is now the 30 years war, and France, having more hatred for the Protestants, is fully on the Hapsburgs side, and are planning on mounting a joint invasion of the Republic with Spain. To respond, the Republic is trying to mount a premptive strike by attacking France first. The army is mobablised and about to invade, when they find themselves in a very different world.

[Mayhem]

As an excuse for severe time-wastage, I give you MEuro map Mark lots. (Added Dutch republic, Mecklenburg, discovered that the Duchy of Savoy included much of Nth Italy, etc.
Enjoy.

[Glen]

I still say the Swiss Confederation should have the Tyrol!

[DuQuense]

After Goggleing and trying ten different Sites,, Tyrol is that little panhandle that stick out toward Switzerland, between Germany and Italy.

It will be the major 'Bone of Contention between the two.

[Glen]

After Goggleing and trying ten different Sites,, Tyrol is that little panhandle that stick out toward Switzerland, between Germany and Italy.

It will be the major 'Bone of Contention between the two.

Yes, it will be, always was. But it would be perfect as an Eastern extension of Switzerland....

[DuQuense]

I think that whe are ready as soon as The Papal States are Filled in.

? How about Starting Monday? Orth is off this Weekend and GF's SO will hit him with a rolling Pin if she catches Him on Line and not moving heavy Boxes.

Talking about Time Wasting, I have a Map with the Major 700's groups listed. in the White NPC Areas.

[Glen]

Again I say, Swiss Manifest Destiny requires ALL the Alps.

Give them the Tyrol, or face the wrath of thousands of Army Knife Wielding Mercenaries and their blood-curdling Yoddling! Don't make them break out the chocolates and fine time-pieces. And if that is not enough to make you capitulate, remember they are still holding their bankers in reserve!

:D :D :D :D

[Glen]

The Uber-Swiss Confederation should look something like this very UNOFFICIAL map I just made....ow, hon, stop hitting me with the rolling pin, I'm coming to bed...ow....

[Ward]

Will it be kinda halfway between Catholisism and Protestantism the way the Church of England was? Also, why did the split happen?


Over Church lands and money . Also the church hate of the Jews .

[reformer]

Ok, before we get started, didn't someone claime Ireland? Please post.

Also, it'd be great if someone claimed the Papal sates or Scotland NOW. Especially the papicy is necessary for the game. I'll take them if needed, but come on, was the unofficial runner of this game, I really shouldn't controll the papicy. Some idiot just claim!

Oh, and should we play on just one game board or multiple (for instance the Baltic, containing scandinavia, Denmark, and the German states, including the 700s ones; Adriatic, containing the Italian States, the Swiss, Austria; Le Manche, containing the English states, the French states, and the Dutch; and some other one for the Romans and templars and africans). Considering we're all relatively close to each other, maybe one board might make sense?

[Glen]

Ok, before we get started, didn't someone claime Ireland? Please post.

Also, it'd be great if someone claimed the Papal sates or Scotland NOW. Especially the papicy is necessary for the game. I'll take them if needed, but come on, was the unofficial runner of this game, I really shouldn't controll the papicy. Some idiot just claim!

Oh, and should we play on just one game board or multiple (for instance the Baltic, containing scandinavia, Denmark, and the German states, including the 700s ones; Adriatic, containing the Italian States, the Swiss, Austria; Le Manche, containing the English states, the French states, and the Dutch; and some other one for the Romans and templars and africans). Considering we're all relatively close to each other, maybe one board might make sense?

I'd recommend one board. The geography is close, and almost everyone will be in everyone else's business. One board will make for easier following.

[Shereen]

I'll take Ireland and Scotland, as two nations currently in personal union. What is the PoD?
They shall be the Kingdom of the Irish and Kingdom of Scotland...as soon as I know the PoD I shall type their history.

[Glen]

I'll take Ireland and Scotland, as two nations currently in personal union. What is the PoD?
They shall be the Kingdom of the Irish and Kingdom of Scotland...as soon as I know the PoD I shall type their history.

Shereen, you get to develop the POD yourself. The ISOT date is the year that your nations will be transported to a mosaic of timelines. I believe that the ISOT for MEuro is sometime during the Thirty Years War.

[reformer]

Ok, the ISOT is 1627, the POD is whenever as long as there's a Protestant Reformation.

One more time: Someone take papal states. Even if you have a gazillion countries. . . take it!

[Glen]

I'll take Ireland and Scotland, as two nations currently in personal union. What is the PoD?
They shall be the Kingdom of the Irish and Kingdom of Scotland...as soon as I know the PoD I shall type their history.

Okay, I've added your claim to the map, just because I'm a nice guy....and obsessed with alternate history maps (and yes, I used the standard one, not my Uber-Swiss one....though I should, I tell you! ;) ).

[reformer]

Could someone post a map which says who claimed what?

Also, have to end all my posts this way now, someone claim the Papal States. NOW

[Glen]

Could someone post a map which says who claimed what?

Also, have to end all my posts this way now, someone claim the Papal States. NOW

Hey, reformer, I thought that was your job. ;)

[reformer]

Good TL. . .I was hesatant about the idea of a united Ireland and Scotland, but this seems to work out fine.

I was going to take the Papal States, but then I realised that I may be taking up too much religious power, and figured that someone whoes countries are less at war with the Catholics should take over. If no one claims it in say, a day, then I'll take it. Wont be able to do too much reasearch though. Bassically I'm thinking of doing a TL where the Reformation is crushed very early and the church is completely a bogus corrupt organisation.

Again, I'd prefer it if someone else claimed it.

Maybe its time that we fully fill out the empty land with 700s people. . . anyone know what the rest of the world looked like then? We're going to be playing over the course of a few years, so there may be exspeditions to America or to China and India etc.

[Shereen]

I was hoping that it would make sense. Atfirst I was going to make them from separate timelines...with an Irish Queen and a Scottish King, but upon research, I found the life of Mary Queen of Scots interesting, and just had to go from there.

[DuQuense]

?Can I give up Sicily & Tunisia [Blue- Malta Knights- should move up into Tunis, instead] and keep the Balearic's, Sardinia &Corsica As Papal States.? If so I'll Take the Papal States.

[Shereen]

Sorry everyone for my come and leave. My husband informed me earlier this morning, we are moving to Riyadh on the 7th (tommorrow over here). So after taking to the user Aussey, I decide to bequeath upon him Ireland-Scotland, after I quizzed him about Mary Queen of Scots. Happy playing!

-HRH Shereen E. Abulhassan

[DuQuense]

November 18, 1302
Pope Boniface VIII published the bull "Unam Sanctam," decreeing that spiritual power was primary to temporal power and that submission to the pope was necessary to achieve salvation.

September 07, 1303
Pope Boniface VIII was placed under arrest at Anagni, Italy by King Philip IV of France.

October 11, 1303
Pope Boniface VIII died.

October 22, 1303
Benedict XI was elected Pope.

July 07, 1304
Benedict XI died, possibly due to poison.

June 5, 1305
Clement V was Elected Pope

1305
The 70-year "Babylonian Captivity" of the papacy began when Pope Clement V moved the papal residence and administrative offices to Avignon in France in order to escape the political turmoil raging in Italy.

April 20, 1314
Pope Clement V died.

August 07, 1316
John XXII was elected pope.
John is known for centralizing church power (through the appointment of bishops) and centralizing church finances (through the imposition of papal taxes). He stayed at Avignon.

December 19, 1370
Pope Urban V died.

December 30, 1370
Gregory XI was elected pope.

January 17, 1377
Over the protest of powerful French cardinals, Pope Gregory XI returned papacy to Rome from its 70-year stay in Avignon.

February 03, 1377
The powerful French Cardinals Call for a New Pope, and Cardinal Robert of Geneva is elected as an antipope, adopting the name Clement VII.

March 27, 1378
Pope Gregory XI, the last French pope, died

September 20, 1378
The "Great Schism of the West" begins when the election of Pope Urban VI to the papacy is challenged by French cardinals, who in turn elect Clement VII to the same office. Clement becomes known as the "antipope" and resides in Avignon. Both Rome and Avignon would have rival popes for the next 40 years.

March 25, 1409
The Council of Pisa opened for the purpose of ending the Great Schism of the West (1378-1417).
The Council of Pisa (1409-1410) was called to heal the "Great Schism of the West," a schism which lasted for forty years. Cardinals from both the Roman and Avignon factions came together, but without any papal approval (they argued that an ecumenical council had authority over popes, a disputed position). They deposed both the Roman pope (Gregory XII) and the Avignon pope (Benedict XIII) and elected Peter of Candia, who adopted the name Alexander V.
However, because neither of the other two popes approved of the Council, supporters of them refused to acknowledge the new election and the Great Schism was not yet ended - indeed, it was now worse because there were three rival popes instead of just two. This conflict was not over until the Council of Constance (1414-1418).


August 07, 1409
The Council of Pisa was closed. Convened to end the Great Schism of the West (1378-1417) caused by two rival popes, the Council in fact elected a third pope, Alexander V(after-wards regarded as an antipope).

November 05, 1414
The Council of Constance opened in Constance, Germany, in an effort to get all three rival popes to step down.
The Council of Constance (1414-1418) was the sixteenth ecumenical council of the Church and the second called to try and deal with the Great Schism of the West (the first was the Council of Pisa and the third was the Council of Basel). The earlier attempt at Pisa actually just made things worse - instead of getting one or both rival popes to step down, it created a third pope who claimed authority over the Church.
The Council of Constance as convened, reluctantly, by Pope John XXIII because Emperor Sigismund insisted. Those who were in charge at Constance hoped to get all three rival popes to abdicate but John refused and he was aided by supporters who held a majority at Constance. Changes in voting procedure eliminated this advantage, however, and John was forced to flee. The Council then asserted that its authority came directly from Christ and binding on all Christians, even without papal approval. John was later imprisoned and deposed for simony in 1415.
The Council of Constance also condemned 267 teachings of John Wycliffe, the English reformer, and the Bohemian reformer John Hus was imprisoned, condemned for heretical teachings, and burned at the stake - all, despite the fact that his safety had been guaranteed by the emperor himself.

March 14, 1415
John Hus travels to the Council of Constance to propose reforms for the Church. Rather than listen to him, the Council tries Hus for heresy, excommunicates him and sentences him to be burned him to death. This betrayal and execution prompt further revolt by his followers.

July 04, 1415
Gregory XII officially convened the Council of Constance.

July 06, 1415 Jan Hus was burned for heresy in Constance, Switzerland.

October 18, 1417
Pope Gregory XII died.

November 11, 1417 The Council of Constance, largest Church meeting in medieval history, officially ends the Great Schism of the West by declaring three rival popes deposed and electing a third: Pope Martin V. It replaces a papal monarchy with a conciliar government, which recognizes a council of prelates as the pope's authority and mandates the frequent meeting of councils. This new period is known as the Italian territorial papacy and lasts until 1517 CE.

POD
Octobre 18th 1413
Pope Gregory XII died. OTL He was 92 and in poor health when he died, so moving his Death back four years is not totally ASB.

November 11, 1415
Pope Martin V is Elected Pope in Rome


December 28, 1446
Antipope Clement VIII died.

February 23, 1448
Pope Martin V died.

Both Men were Replaced by Councils who continued the Schism. When they died in the 1460's the Schism was 90 years old, and there were very few people alive who had been around before. The powerful French and Austrian Cardinals , Supported Avignon, While the Italian and Spanish went with Rome.
In the 1540's when a Young Priest by the name of Luther nailed a Protest containing 97 points [extra ones deal with the Schism] to his Church door before Mass one Sunday, Both Churches Condemned him. But neither one paid any attention to the 7 protests about the Schism.

In 1622 the Avignon Pope Died and His successor took the Name of Pope Saul, after the Disciple who was converted by God. He has been working for the past five years seeking ways to Peacefully reunite the Body of Christ.
His Opposite number Pope Simon, Elected in 1613, is made of Sterner stuff, The Fire of a righteous God Burns in Him. And He is Determined to Force the Church back together. Even if He has to have the Whole Population of Europe, Burned at the Stake. for Heresy.

[reformer]

Oof. .. detail. .. nice. .. and we finally have a stupid pope!

[reformer]

Ok folks, put in the last details of your countries so we can start tomarrow. Yes. ISOT midnight tonight, EST.

[Aussey]

Kingdom of Scotland/Kingdom of the Irish

Capital:Edingburg/Dublin

Head of State: Mary II, Queen of Scots/Queen Mary of the Irish, High Queen of Ireland

Land: OTL Kingdom of Scotland and Kingdom of Ireland

Religion: Roman Catholic Church. A few Protestants, who refer to
themselvers as "presbyterians" live in the Orkney's, and have unsuccesfully tried over 100 times to start a Protestant revolution in the mainland.

History: Mary I, Queen of Scots and Queen-Consort of France gave birth to Royal Twins, on November 30, 1560. Francois Louis Alexander Bourbon was declared Dauphin. His brother, Charles was declared Princess of France, Duke of Andrassy, and Prince of Wales, as Mary now styled herself "Queen of Scotland, England, and of France, Queen and Consort"

6 days later, King Francois II died, and his 6 day old son was declared King Francois III. The 15 year-old Queen Mary set sail for Scotland, with her daughter, the Princess Marie. They arrived in Scotland with a grand welcome. Queen-Regent Marie de Guise welcomed her daughter Mary, and her grandson Charles. At that moment, the Queen-Regent, the Queen, and the Duke of Andrassy all signed (in the baby's case, he was forced to scribble a few lines) officially un-ratifying the Treaty of Edingburg, which Mary never recognized.

Queen-Regent Marie de Guise died soon later, and Mary ascended the throne. After watching her Mother rule for the three years she was there, Mary I knew that she would have to take a firm stance on the Protestant uprising. Upon being crowned, she had her half-brother excluded from the Stuart family tree. The next day he was stripped of his titles. And a week later he was sentenced to death for High Treason.

John Knox met a similar fate after he was tricked into coming to a Protestant Meeting at Edingburg Palace. Many Protestant leaders were burnt at the stakes, and when Mary I married King Philip II of Spain. Their marriage produced two daughters: Margurite and Isabelle. And one son, Andrew, who died in infancy.

In the mean time, the Catholic Irish Lords had offered King Phillip the Throne of Ireland for his daughter from a previous marriage, the Infante. However, King Phillip turned this down, and proposed that his new step-son, the Prince Charles, be proclaimed High King of Ireland. Phillip also added that Spanish troops would assist the Scottish, Irish, and French troops in deposing the current Irish queen- Elizabeth. Thus began the Irish War of Independence.

The War finally ended in 1588, when Queen Elizabeth of England formally abdicating the throne of Ireland "in favor of my favored royal cousin, HIs Royal Highness, the Duke Charles of Andrassy, Prince of Scotland." Queen Mary died two years later, and Charles was proclaimed King Charles I of Scotland. Under his reign, the Kingdom of Scotland, and Kingdom of the Irish were kept separate, but under personal Union.

The year 1590 saw the marriage of King Charles and Anne Katherine von Hohenzollern, Princess of Prussia, who converted to Catholicism upon marrying King Charles. Together they had three daughters: Mary (born 1591), Catherine (born 1597), and Eleanore (born 1600). Queen Ann-Katherine died two years before her husband.

In 1610, Princess Mary married Holy Roman Emperor Matthias I. He died nine years later. Their marriage produced no children. As a widowed Empress, the standards for her marriage were higher than before, which helped in years later, when she refused the hand of King Edward VII, son of Elizabeth I of England.

When King Charles died, according the semi-Salic Law of Scotland, succession should go to his brother, and his brothers sons. None of which existed, as Prince James died in infancy. Next would have been his grandmother's brothers. None of which existed, which is why his grandmother became Queen in the first place. So on September 17, 1617 Princess Mary was declared: "Mary the Second, By the Grace of God, Queen of Scotland, and Queen of England, High Queen of Ireland and the Irish, and Beloved Sister* of the High and Mighty King Phillip III of Spain."

Since Mary II's ascension, she has shown the power and dedication shown by her cousin, Elizabeth I in the early years of her reign. However, she was not on good terms with the King Edward VII of England, son of Elizabeth I and Robert Dudley, Duke of Northumberland. And is not on good terms with his daughter, Queen Anne. Upon her ascension, it was suggested the 27 year old Princess, prime in her youth and beauty, marry the 50 some year old King Edward of England, who suffered similar diseases that Henry VIII had, causing him to be fat, and suffer ulcers. Mary II kindly refused the offer. A few weeks after Mary rejected the proposal, old King Edward died, and his daughter Anne became Queen.

In 1620, the European monarchs were awestruck when Queen Mary II of Scotland and Ireland married her dead husband's heir, the Emperor Ferdinand II of the Holy Roman Empire. So far, their marriage has produced 3 sons and two daughters: James, Charles, Robert, Catherine, and Anna. At the time of the ISOT, the Holy Roman Emperor was in Scotland with his wife. This should make things more interesting.

The day was November 2. The year was 1622. The Lords-Protestant flung into full open rebellion against Queen Mary II. Queen Anne I of England publicly announced support for the Lords-Protestant, and attacked Scotland from the South. The Great Protestant Rebellion had begun. However, the Lords-Protestant soon realized how low the number of Protestants in Scotland were. They were requesting aid from all the Protestant countries, only Denmark-Norway and England came to aid. Eventually, the rebellion was shot down, without aid from the Holy Roman Empire, or Spain. But the ideals of Protestantism had been firmly placed in Scotland. Remaining Protestants flew to the Orkneys, where they have established an unrecognized “Protestant Kingdom of the Orkneys and Scotland” they declared Queen Anne of England their Queen. Now the Queen of Scotland-Ireland claims to be Queen of England and the Queen of England claims to be Queen of Scotland-Ireland. However, upon ISOT, Queen Anne will no longer exist.


*although she was really his step-sister

Military: To Come Later!!!

Flag:

[Imajin]

?Can I give up Sicily & Tunisia [Blue- Malta Knights- should move up into Tunis, instead] and keep the Balearic's, Sardinia &Corsica As Papal States.? If so I'll Take the Papal States.
I'll take a strip extending a bit past Tunis (Which they call Carthage) to my current territory... The Knights are on Crusade right now, they'll be expanding into unclaimed North Africa..

[DuQuense]

Remember the Whole North Med Coast is claimed by the Omayyad Caliphate.

[Imajin]

Remember the Whole North Med Coast is claimed by the Oyammahad Caliphate.
Damn Caliphate! Though this is still somewhat early, conquest of North Africa wise, and the Berbers were always on the verge of revolting. If the Caliph dissapears (He'd be in Templar territory, IIRC), the whole thing may fall apart like a house of cards...

[Condottiero]

Everything starts with the rain. The rain falls over the Earth. It soaks her sometimes carelessly, sometimes passionately and sometimes coldly. But the Earth is always grateful and it turns it into grass, vegetables and trees. The grass nourishes sheeps and horses. Then the sheeps give their milk, their wool and their flesh to free men that use them to make cheese, clothings and food.

But one day one men mounted over one horse and believed he was better than the rest of men and he offered to them a treaty: "if you cede me an small bit of your freedom, I promise to defend the rest of it and fence anyone willing to take it". And the freemen ceded. Then another man asked the same to all the men over horses, and another one to those men and he became king.

Castille had had some times good kings and some times others not so good, but none of them had done what this young french boy had asked. The shepherds, the wool merchants, the noblemen, the clerics were annoyed because he was giving their bread and their freedom to other foreigners. And they rebelled. The Castillian "Comuneros" and the Valencian "Agermanados", the humble shepherds of the Mesta and the rich Wool traders, the sailors in the small mediterranean vessels and the clerics. They fought the tirant, freed the Queen from her prison and in the 23 of April of the year of our Lord of 1521 they defeated the tyrant's army in Villalar.

POD: the rich wool producing towns in the NE of Castille do not defect and the Comuneros manage to present a united front against Carlos I, defeating him in Villalar.

The French had decided to take advantage of the disorder and they had invaded Navarre and Guipuzcoa, but the allied army defeated them first in Calahorra and then in Tudela and Fuenterrabía.

In 1524 the Cortes decided to have Queen Juana I as their true ruler, but due to her madness it was a council of principals that ruled. Soon all the Comunities of Earth of Castille, the main cities of Castille, Aragon and Navarra, the main Bishops and the noblemen that had not fleed united in a permanent Senate called the "Cortes del Reino".

In 1525 the Portuguese king tried to seize one portion of the new state, but he was defeated in Toro and in Salamanca. His kingdom rebelled and soon the portuguese cities claimed for help to the "Cortes del Reino". The Cortes decided to help the portuguese towns and invaded. Carlos decided to side with the portuguese king promising him the kingdom of Galicia and parts of Andalucia in exchange for his help. The combined Burgundian-Portuguese army was defeated and Lisbon and the two kings fell.

The Portuguese cortes decided to join the Hispanic Republic.

The hispanic church lead by Arch-Bishop Maldonado Pimentel of Toledo continues the reformations started by Cardinal Cisneros as for discipline and poverty, arising the suspicion of the Pope. But the Inquisition is almost abolished in 1531.

The Policy of the new republic for Europe is a certain political isolationism with an increased trade with the catholic parts of Flanders, Ireland and Italy.

In 1542 a combined hispanic army invades the north of Africa and annexes the kingdom of Fez cleaning all the coast of pirates. The new african possesions range from Oran to Sale in the Atlantic. The Moriscos are invited to occupy the new lands with promises of more tolerance and smaller taxes.

In 1555 Juana I died, leaving the peninsular territories to the Cortes that would constitute the new state as the Republic of Hispania and Italy to her grandson Philip son fo Carlos.

In 1562 the Moroccan Sultan is deposed and an andalusian noblemen is put in his place. The only hostile in the region is now Tafilalt.

After the attack of an English fleet over the Indias Fleet, a retaliation force is send to the British Isles. They manage to defeat an english fleet sacking Cornwalles and the Channel Islands.

During the French Religion wars several Hispanic tercios are known to participate in favor of Henry de Guisa, the future Henry IV.

In 1588 Henry pays back by invading and destroying several cities in the Protesant Flanders (by chance they are the towns whose products made some competence to spanish woolen products or eventually raided hispanic possesions).

In 1593 the Sultan of Tafilalt attacked the Sultanate of Al-Andalus of the South but he is defeated by a combined army and retreats in 1595.

*****
Name: Republic of Hispania
Capital: Toledo
Consul of the Senate: Don Rodrigo Díaz de Carreras
Flag: red, white and yellow with the arms of all the Hispanic Kingdoms (Castille, Aragon, Portugal, Navarre, Granada and Fez)

Religion: Roman Catholic with strong minorities of jews and muslims.

Army: Militias in all the main towns (halberdiers and some harquebusiers), light cavalry (escopeteros, mounted harquebusiers in rural areas).

Five Tercios: Aragon (in Zaragoza), Portugal (in Lisbon), Castilla (in Burgos), Granada (in Sevilla) and Africa (in Tangiers)

Each Tercio consists on 6,000 men (30% pikemen, 40% harquebusiers and 30% musketeers) supported by one battery (24 guns of different calibers) and 1,000 riders (300 caballos corazas, pistol + sword, 300 demi-lances, light lancers, and 400 escopeteros, mounted harquebussiers).

In Africa there is also a cavalry army formed by 1500 caballos corazas, 1000 demilances, 1000 escopeteros and 3000 moorish lancers and 1000 camelriders.

********
Name Sultanate of Al-Andalus of the South
Capital: Maraketch
Sultan: Abdul al-Qurtubi (subject to the Republic of hispania)
Flag: Red crescent on yellow
Religion: Islamic with strong minorities of jews and christians.

Army: 3000 spearmen, 1000 harquebussiers, 20 guns, 5000 riders and 1000 camelriders.
*********
Name: Sultanate of Tafilalt
Capital: itinerant
Sultan: Mohammed ibn-Abdala
Flag: white crescent on black

Religion: Islamic (some protestant and huguenot refugees).

Army: 10000 riders and 5000 camelriders. There are 1500 french harquebusiers and pikemen and 1200 dutch harquebusiers with 20 guns

***********

I'm sorry I changed some names :o

[Imajin]

This should be a complete map.

[Glen]

I STILL say that the Swiss must have the Tyrol! ;)

[Imajin]

Here's your Switzerland map :D :p

[Aussey]

Swiss North Africa sounds very funny...

[Glen]

Here's your Switzerland map :D :p

Swiss North Africa sounds very funny...

Naw, too much flatlands. We could expand into Germany, along the Pyrenese, and into the Balkans, though. ;)

[Aussey]

Since in OTL the Holy Roman Emperor was Prince-Consort of Scotland and Ireland, I could take Remaining Germany and/or Italy, as scattered remains of the HRE...if no one claims or wants them...

[DuQuense]

I HAD the 700 Saxons listed in Germany as I figured whe need some NPC, and have written about them, north of the Papal lands is the 700 Lombard?? Kingdom of Italy, But I have no idea who the Beinventos are. [More homework] . There are also 700 Roman Empire Goths in South Crimea.

[Imajin]

I believe Benevento was a Lombard Duchy, similar to the Kingdom of Italy, which is also ISOTed.

[DuQuense]

In 1627 while Pope Simon would like to Burn the whole non Catholic ,and including the Avignon followers in that total population of Europe. He has not the means or ability. Most of Europe looks to the Avignon Pope, including As such France, Austria, Scotland and Ireland, Along with many of the smaller German States, are under the Ban and are Excommunicated. Of course Pope Saul has Nullified all this.

In 1490 Spain Turned over Title to Corsica, and Sardinia, which they had Seized from the French, in the Name of the Roman Pope, as well as the Balearic Islands, in return for the Roman Popes approval of their taking of Sicily, and Naples, as well as the Title Holy Roman Emperor and King of Jerusalem.

While Politically and Spiritually, Pope Simon rules over, the Papal States with a strong hand, Military he has less than 15.000 soldiers and 2000 Sailors. 5000 Calvary, 2 Italy, 1 ea Sard & Cor, 1,000 in the Balearic Islands , and ten. infantry spread across the states. Most of these are poorly trained, on the Other hand the Population of the States are devoted to their Pope, and will help as needed.

[reformer]

are we still wating for something, or can we start the game now?

[DuQuense]

whe are waiting for people to finish writing their setup pieces, and their WTF piece.

Remember 90% of the population works on the land. and there are few lamps. You go to bed when it gets dark, and wake up at dawn. As this is happening between 0000 z and 0400 z almost all people will be asleep, except for night watch Etc.

Most of the news will be in the form of your soldiers waking up at home and wondering WTF. and the news spreading.

[reformer]

Good point. . . should have thought of that.

[reformer]

Where is everyone? We should start. . . the same thing happened last time. . . no one posted. Don't do this again. . . come on folks.

[Lauranthalas]

Where is everyone? We should start. . . the same thing happened last time. . . no one posted. Don't do this again. . . come on folks.
i am here but as I already posted I wont be ehre next week

[Glen]

Um, there is a little detail that needs to be ironed out.

It looks like Bulg had a previous claim on Ireland, but then Sheheen came along and wanted it (and was told accidently by people that it was open, and it was not marked on the last map as of that time). Now Aussey has it. So we need to figure out what happened with Ireland.

Bulg, did you ever post a country for Ireland? I paged through and didn't find one.

Bulg has priority since his claim was first, but I would like to suggest that Aussey has a nice write-up for a Ireland/Scotland combo and it might be best to just have him take it, if it would be okay. Bulg does have the Roman Empire, after all. ;)

However, if Bulg still wishes Ireland, he should get it. But he needs to post it!

[Othniel]

I'm giving up my claim on France...I can't seem to think of a distintive enough history. I may have to withdraw altogether from this so, should Arthurian Breton live?

[reformer]

I can play it. In fact, I think it would be a fun nation to play, but we really need a France, and I'm playing the Dutch, so I can't take it. A Protestant France is a very different nation, and has alot of potential. Even an OTL France with Richilue would be enjoyable. We just need a proper France. . . think of the possible conflict for crying out loud!

[Imajin]

I'm giving up my claim on France...I can't seem to think of a distintive enough history. I may have to withdraw altogether from this so, should Arthurian Breton live?
If Arthurian Breton doesn't live, then my plans to march the redcoats into it are destroyed... So keep it!

[Aussey]

If Arthurian Breton doesn't live, then my plans to march the redcoats into it are destroyed... So keep it!

And my plans to take the north of it a destroyed :eek:

[reformer]

As I've said, if oth doesn't have it, I'll take it.

So, when are you folks gonna be ready to start the game really going? Also, there are some players we havn't heard from in a while . . . (is General Paul here?)

Someone take hugonot France who is not Imajin or me. . . right. . . now. . . that's an order

[Lauranthalas]

So, when are you folks gonna be ready to start the game really going? Also, there are some players we havn't heard from in a while . . . (is General Paul here?)

I might be able to reach him

[reformer]

Please do, he's necessary for the game, and again, someone take France. Anyone.

[Mayhem]

Erm, yeah; France is kinda crucial to me as well. Someone take France!

[DuQuense]

Pope Simon had more Information about Europe than anyone else. It wasn't that he had Spies, But all the priests in Europe now accepted The Seat of Peter as the true Pope. He now knew why God had allowed the Great Schism.
It was to Allow a true Pope, Dedicated to Dealing with the Heretics and Witches that the Devil Satan had Brought Forth.