ME7 Congress of African Affairs

[Aussey]

For all negotiations and discussions of the political division of the African Continent.

[Glen]

For all negotiations and discussions of the political division of the African Continent.

So, anyone want to discuss Africa?

[DuQuense]

?What is there to discuss? Draka takes the bottom half, Mauritania takes the west coast Britain & Austria takes the East coast north of Draka. Spain get a sliver on the west coast between Draka and Mauritania.

[Othniel]

Mauriafrica, vetran soldiers retirement center invites nations of Europe AND the Americas an attempt to colonse the southern coast of west Africa. We of corse are willing to buy any European claimed land after 10 years of occupation and devolpment.

[Othniel]

Well who does want to form colonies in West Africa?

[Othniel]

Seeing that the coastal area of West Africa is becoming contested you guys should detrimine maybe a few miles inland to detrimine how big your colonies will be.

[Glen]

Why don't you great powers decide how to carve up the remaining territories of Africa? And then you can tell us what happens when you try to actually enforce those claims during the fastforward....

France will take as much of the territory north of their current claim as the Mauriafricans are willing to allow. The Spanish will do likewise, and maybe a little further to the West.

So, Austria, UK, Draka, Mauriafrica, you all want to chime in here? And what of the German Confederation, will they try to claim a patch of Africa?

[DuQuense]

well Austria will continue south along the recognized border with Mauriafricans , while at the same time moving west till they bump into something.

[perdedor99]

same with Draka. We are moving north until we bump with something. Them we change directions. In reality I don't see any more nations have a realistic chance of having colonies in Africa. Must likely 1887 will be the year of the border clashes and by 1888-89 maybe everyone agreed with their borders.

[Justin Pickard]

Greece would like a small trading colony somewhere on the West Coast, preferably not adjacent to Draka territories. Exploratory missions will be launched in the following months.

[Glen]

Maximum extent of Spanish West African claims

[Glen]

French Proposal for Western Africa, with Greece added in blue.

[Glen]

Just to mention it, these maps also show the new French claim on the Chagos Archipelago and Diego Garcia, which our people just reached...

[Bulgaroktonos]

Britain would like to extend its claim in Eastern Africa up to the North of Lake Victoria along the border with French Sudan.

In the West, they would liek to claim all remaingin land between Spanish territory and Drakan, and seek arbitration on the exact border between Draka and Britain, especially around lake victoria....

[Glen]

Okay, here's a map showing a proposal for the British claims and possibly Austria's as well. UK, are you going to claim any territory linking those East and West Coast colonies? Otherwise, I think most of the rest will end up Drakan.

[Bulgaroktonos]

I'm not sure how I'm going ot do it. that land is so useless, I don't know what it would be good for. I'll Claim all that remaining land now, and try to use it as a bargaining chip for land elsewhere.....

[Glen]

Okay, so here are some of the tentative claims, proposals, and the disputed area on Lake Victoria. I think we need to here from Draka and Austria regarding the claims in the middle of the Continent and North Lake Victoria. Sounds like the British are open to negotiation there.

[DuQuense]

Austria has send ten Thousand extra troops [mostly fresh recruits, but warm bodies anyway] to reinforce my General marching westward.

I am thinking that my Austrians marching south from Jaba on the white Nile will probably meet the Draka. Somewhere around Lake Victoria, then both the Austrians and the Draka will turn westward, the Austrians preventing the Draka from moving farther north and the Draka keeping the Austrians from moving south.

Then the Austrians trying to improve relations with Britain after the buying of Egypt away from them will negotiate, to give the land back to them.

[[Austria would prefer to have the British as their neighbor instead of the Draka.]]

[Glen]

Austria has send ten Thousand extra troops [mostly fresh recruits, but warm bodies anyway] to reinforce my General marching westward.

I am thinking that my Austrians marching south from Jaba on the white Nile will probably meet the Draka. Somewhere around Lake Victoria,

I think you'll probably meet the British first.

then both the Austrians and the Draka will turn westward, the Austrians preventing the Draka from moving farther north and the Draka keeping the Austrians from moving south.

I would think that might happen, but with the British trying to wedge in somewhere between. Or they might just negotiate for that since the Austrians WANT them there.

Then the Austrians trying to improve relations with Britain after the buying of Egypt away from them will negotiate, to give the land back to them.

You could probably improve relations just by recognizing British claims to a trans-African corridor of some sort. Oh, and supporting their claim to the northern shore of Lake Victoria with the Draka. ;)

[[Austria would prefer to have the British as their neighbor instead of the Draka.]][/QUOTE]

I think that is going to be the Draka's problem. No one wants them as neighbors, except maybe the British, and I think that will be to the British advantage.

[DuQuense]

I am thinking that my Austrians marching south from Jaba on the white Nile will probably meet the Draka. Somewhere around Lake Victoria,


I think you'll probably meet the British first.

I am going by my having sent more troop to this area than the British, And a post of Bulg's about just starting to move into the Uganda area.

I would think that might happen, but with the British trying to wedge in somewhere between. Or they might just negotiate for that since the Austrians WANT them there.

After the negotiations Austria will have no problem with the British troops moving to take the place of the Austrians.

[perdedor99]

Draka sees this British encroachment into what they consider their territory as offensive. No negotiations. We are keeping Lake Victoria whole and Lake Albert. You just made an enemy on the long run.

[Glen]

Draka sees this British encroachment into what they consider their territory as offensive. No negotiations. We are keeping Lake Victoria whole and Lake Albert. You just made an enemy on the long run.

I believe the British requested arbitration over the disputed area. Of course, if the Draka wish to take a hard line, that is their perogative.

The Spanish and the French support the British claim to the disputed area at this time.

[perdedor99]

I believe the British requested arbitration over the disputed area. Of course, if the Draka wish to take a hard line, that is their perogative.

The Spanish and the French support the British claim to the disputed area at this time.

And is the British prerogative to get two Legions out of the area with more Legions on the way. Drakan are not moving and I guess the Russians and the Germans will support my claim.

[Glen]

After the negotiations Austria will have no problem with the British troops moving to take the place of the Austrians.

DuQuense, why don't you try a map showing where you think you've gotten to thus far and/or what you'd be willing to see the UK and/or Draka claim.

P99, you might do the same, except for the Austrians and UK.

Then we can debate the fine points and get a claim map sorted out.

[Bulgaroktonos]

It's okay really, Britain doesn't mind. Those colonial bumpkins are welcome to their backwater lands if they are that important to them. Just know Britain isn't coming to your aid any time soon....

[Othniel]

At the end of the fast forward Mauriafirca will be looking to purchase the colonies in west africa. We also would like to but the interior of Upper Guiena right now.

[Glen]

QUOTE-Bulg]It's okay really, Britain doesn't mind. Those colonial bumpkins are welcome to their backwater lands if they are that important to them. Just know Britain isn't coming to your aid any time soon....[/QUOTE]

At the end of the fast forward Mauriafirca will be looking to purchase the colonies in west africa. We also would like to but the interior of Upper Guiena right now.

Okay, so this is my attempt at redrawing the likely claims and borders given peoples' previous comments and the new ones from Bulg and Oth. Oth, I'm not quite sure what you meant by 'Upper Guinea', so I gave you the Upper portion of it straight across, without any additions of coast.

Please everyone feel free to make clarifications and counterproposals. Maps are nice, especially if they are actually modifications of one of these world maps so we can easily add the final conclusions to our overall world map.

[Othniel]

Upper Guinea is the region on the cape below the Sahara, It's everything above Equatorial Guinea, and would include almost everything south of the Niger River.

[Glen]

Upper Guinea is the region on the cape below the Sahara, It's everything above Equatorial Guinea, and would include almost everything south of the Niger River.

Okay, I'm still trying to figure out exactly where to put your claim. You gave these landmarks, but they are not contiguous and they also don't give me any idea of the extent to the East of your claim.

When I try to look up Upper Guinea online, I do get an Upper Guinea forest region which is similar in extent to what you describe, but shown as almost entirely coast, whereas you've stated that you want the interiors.

Okay, I'll make a stab at it. Here's my latest attempt at an African claims map.

[DuQuense]

Austria is fine with this, Except if Britain wants that little strip connecting , Austria will happily let them have it.

[Glen]

Austria is fine with this, Except if Britain wants that little strip connecting , Austria will happily let them have it.

Okay, so here is one with that strip connecting the two as per Austria.

[Othniel]

Okay, I'm still trying to figure out exactly where to put your claim. You gave these landmarks, but they are not contiguous and they also don't give me any idea of the extent to the East of your claim.

When I try to look up Upper Guinea online, I do get an Upper Guinea forest region which is similar in extent to what you describe, but shown as almost entirely coast, whereas you've stated that you want the interiors.

Okay, I'll make a stab at it. Here's my latest attempt at an African claims map.
You've done my intentions kindly.

[DuQuense]

Good map Britain gets to build a transcontinental Rail Road. and Austria gets the land it wants.

Given the Forts, Trenches, and [Castles] in the Mountain passes Europe is Building, ?Any Ideas for the wide open Sahel grass lands?. ?Or the Jungle Forests.?

[Othniel]

A trans-con... through the Kongo River Basin? Are you mad man? That is the most treatorious swampland in the world. It's inhostibatble and you can't build on it....

[Glen]

A trans-con... through the Kongo River Basin? Are you mad man? That is the most treatorious swampland in the world. It's inhostibatble and you can't build on it....

Anything can be built upon. Just ask the New Granadans. In fact, all the African powers are going to want to start purchasing quinine from us. We also have some fine collections of netting. ;)

[Glen]

Good map Britain gets to build a transcontinental Rail Road. and Austria gets the land it wants.

Given the Forts, Trenches, and [Castles] in the Mountain passes Europe is Building, ?Any Ideas for the wide open Sahel grass lands?. ?Or the Jungle Forests.?

Cavalry would do well on the Sahel I'd think. Its too big a space to cover effectively with infantry. Think the US Cavalry from the old movies.

Jungles are barriers in and of themselves. Small units mostly, entirely infantry types. Could also use gunboats for those tropical rivers.

[Glen]

Okay, so I think Mauriafrica, Greece, France, Spain, Austria, Britain, and Draka should all be okay with the map now, I think. The Brits dropped their claims to the north shore of Lake Victoria, which the Draka were disputing, and they stated that they'd let the Brits have the rest further north in the interior. If someone has a problem later, let me know, but for now I'm assuming the rough borders of the claims have been decided and the Congress of African Affairs is winding to a close....

[perdedor99]

Oh, the Draka still feel they were screwed by the British again, and I bet the British feel we are a bunch of upstarts colonials. I guess the era of good will is over.

PS. A Transcontinental Railroad thru the Rain Forest will take more than 13 years to complete. Could be the Panama Canal of Lesseps but in a bigger scale. The ones who purchase stock in the damn thing will be ruined IMO.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Britain doesn't even want the damn land. They aren't building anything in that goddamn jungle. Its basically just sitting there. Maybe if the Draka hadn't occupied British claimed land, and then refused to budge things would be different......

[perdedor99]

Britain doesn't even want the damn land. They aren't building anything in that goddamn jungle. Its basically just sitting there. Maybe if the Draka hadn't occupied British claimed land, and then refused to budge things would be different......

Same way the Drakan feel. A damn shame that happen but now the Drakan government will be seen as weak if they budge in negotiations. the lakes area is rich compared with the steaming jungle in the center and the Draka knows that. they only wanted the only good resource they could have get from there, serfs. But oh well,that's life. The warm relations between Draka and the British are now gone for sure. And Bulg, I just get into character. The Drakans could be stupid stubborns asses sometimes. :D

[Glen]

Oh, the Draka still feel they were screwed by the British again, and I bet the British feel we are a bunch of upstarts colonials. I guess the era of good will is over.

PS. A Transcontinental Railroad thru the Rain Forest will take more than 13 years to complete. Could be the Panama Canal of Lesseps but in a bigger scale. The ones who purchase stock in the damn thing will be ruined IMO.

OOC: Actually, if the British get on it, I'd say they could have a transcontinental railroad completed by, say, 1899. ;)

New Granadan engineering firms have the greatest experience in this world building rail lines through jungles in equatorial regions. They're actually very good at it. But you'll have to pay a premium to get one to come to Africa, especially since they have a glut of rail jobs for the new areas in Amazonia.

[Aussey]

Wow. Austrian Africa is HUGE!

[Aussey]

This flag will be flown in Austrian Africa until further ones are created*
*excluding Libya which is retaining their former Grand Ducal Banner, and Egypt which is flying the Habsburg Black-and-Gold until further notice:

[Imajin]

I tried to make a better looking version of the flag: Is this alright?

[Aussey]

Very good. But I wanted the Lion stretched out on the Habsburg colors. The top three colors are the Nubian colors, and represent the Sudan.

[Glen]

Wow. Austrian Africa is HUGE!

Yes, DuQuense was very good at negotiating and expanding into that area. Of course, Austria must now deal with the Mahdi and the Khalifa...

[Imajin]

Ah, alright... More like this, then?

[Matt]

would an 18th C nation really want to represent it's colony on a flag? I would think they wouldn't give a damn.

[Imajin]

would an 18th C nation really want to represent it's colony on a flag? I would think they wouldn't give a damn.
Hm, good point. Even the British (often touted as 'enlightened' colonialists) used a slave-traders symbol for their Nigeria flag, IIRC.

[Glen]

would an 18th C nation really want to represent it's colony on a flag? I would think they wouldn't give a damn.

Ethiopia does have some prestige in a way, and is not your typical colonial possession. Austria might want to acknowledge that prestige possession in a colonial flag.

[Matt]

Wow. Austrian Africa is HUGE!


And largely Saharian Desert :p

[Aussey]

Because the Emperor is The Emperor of Ethiopia and King of Kings

[DuQuense]

Egypt/Sudan is Desert, But Ethiopia extends across the Sahel. I was going to import some gazelles and Gnus. from the Serengeti. [fast forward] To try to get around the Tsetse fly problem, for my Ranching Colonists.

[Aussey]

Federation of Libya & Austrian Egypt:

[Aussey]

Imperial Crown of Abyssinia (includes Somaliland and Sudan):

[Aussey]

So this means that first flag that I made, that Imajin recreated, wont be in use since I now have these flags done.

[Glen]

OOC: No matter what else, Aussey, you remain one of our best ever flag makers. Welcome back!

[Condottiero]

Why does the Lybian flag include the arms of the Spanish Habsburgs?

I like it anyway.

[Imajin]

Why does the Lybian flag include the arms of the Spanish Habsburgs?

I like it anyway.
Actually, even worse, that's the Neapolitan Bourbon Arms (Note the Fleur-de-lys in the center)....
Though the flag still looks nice.

[Aussey]

Actually, even worse, that's the Neapolitan Bourbon Arms (Note the Fleur-de-lys in the center)....
Though the flag still looks nice.

It's the Sicillian Coat-of-Arms...hence Austro-Sicillian Libya...as I have said, Libya is practically part of Europe. Most are of Sicillian, or wealthy Arab, or mixed. All wandering tribesmen were pushed into the Sahara over the years...

[Aussey]

Actually, its the Sicillian Arms on an ancient flag of Tripoli!

[Imajin]

Actually, its the Sicillian Arms on an ancient flag of Tripoli!
Well, if the arms are simply Sicillian (rather than Bourbon as I assumed) then I have no reason to complain, then...

[Aussey]

Maybe they are the Arms of a Bourbon duke as king or something. I dont know. they were the arms that showed up as siciliy's, so, yes. Anyways, the Habsburgs and Bourbons intermarried and at various times ruled Sicily anyhow..actually, I think EVERY royal house is related to the Habsburgs...

[Othniel]

Maybe they are the Arms of a Bourbon duke as king or something. I dont know. they were the arms that showed up as siciliy's, so, yes. Anyways, the Habsburgs and Bourbons intermarried and at various times ruled Sicily anyhow..actually, I think EVERY royal house is related to the Habsburgs...
Except Bonapart for a long time. To think if it hadn't of hit France first we could have had the Austrian, or Prussian Revolution instead... gotta love the radicals. :D