AH Challenge: The Weimar Republic Survives TL

[perdedor99]

Also, with not much French involvement, 'entente' seems an odd name for them.

Any suggestions?

Northern European Alliance? But with Greece and Turkey joining it doesn't make sense. The Democratic Front?

[perdedor99]

What's the rationale for this, p99? Is this some sort of result of the changes already wrought in the timeline, or are these additional butterfies?

in reality butterflies to help Othniel move the commies along. Uruguay was fairly socialist IOTL and the 1933 coup happened IOTL. With just a little more repression is possible the Machete Dictatorship, as it was called, could turn the Colorados further to the left.The 1942 event also happened but was a coup not a civil war. But a more leftist colorado party could see here the chance to make real changes.

[perdedor99]

you're right in regard to a cause belli for the French, what could be a good one?

[Glen]

in reality butterflies to help Othniel move the commies along. Uruguay was fairly socialist IOTL and the 1933 coup happened IOTL. With just a little more repression is possible the Machete Dictatorship, as it was called, could turn the Colorados further to the left.The 1942 event also happened but was a coup not a civil war. But a more leftist colorado party could see here the chance to make real changes.

Hmm, maybe. But what is going to be the effect of this on the world situation over time?

[Glen]

you're right in regard to a cause belli for the French, what could be a good one?

The problem is, Franco isn't stupid. I don't think he gives them one.

Mussolini is much more likely to overstep. While not the brinksman Hitler was, he is much more likely to miscalculate, or let his pride get the best of him and take his country into war. Just look at his invasions he launched in the 30s and 40s. Not the most brilliant moves oftentimes.

I think we are much more likely to see the Italians trigger a war involving another power somehow than anyone else on the continent.

[Othniel]

Hmm, maybe. But what is going to be the effect of this on the world situation over time?
Openning to a Soviet pressence in South America...which allows for a proxy war between the ABC powers, which we have as trimetrically opposed as the fifties come into effect.

[perdedor99]

Hmm, maybe. But what is going to be the effect of this on the world situation over time?

They are more like a mild commie type, kinda of early castro. they are more like a breeding ground of commies in South America. Neutrals and peaceful but still their example is used by the communist sympathizers in South America. maybe their brand of Communist is seeing like the option to go for many of the rising African nations of the 1970's and 1980's.

[perdedor99]

Openning to a Soviet pressence in South America...which allows for a proxy war between the ABC powers, which we have as trimetrically opposed as the fifties come into effect.

so my analysis of the situation was correct. Just make sure Uruguay peaceful enough so is not viewed as a threat by any side.

[perdedor99]

The end of the South American war and the beginning of the Colombian Civil war.

What will be the reaction of the Vanderberg Adminstration to the plea of help by the Colombian President?

August 16th 1941- Peruvian forces capture Cuenca after heavy fighting. Both sides are exhausted and both sides agree a cease-fire. But secret pledges by the Colombian government that they will join the conflict helps the Ecuadorians to break the cease fire on September 10th 1941 after the arrival of Colombian “volunteers” and weapons.

September 26th 1941: Ecuadorian counter offensive recaptures Cuenca. Peru prepares for a final offensive to try to end the conflict.

October 10th 1941: Coastal offensive started by Peru.

December 7th 1941: Guayaquil falls to Peruvian army. Peru sends terms of surrender to Ecuador. Ecuador after consideration and further promises by Colombia refuses. A December ceasefire agreed by both sides, in reality both sides are exhausted.

February 8th 1942: Ecuadorian counter offensive starts in attempt to recapture Guayaquil, casualties mount especially between Colombian volunteers. The offensive is called off on March 2nd 1942 after failing in their objectives.

February 9th 1942: Peruvian counter offensive starts in an attempt to recapture Cuenca. With majority of enemy forces facing Guayaquil the city falls by February 21st 1942.

March 11th 1942: Ecuador accepts terms of Peru. Peru gains all disputed territory plus El Oro province.

April 12th 1942: Liberal leader Jorge Eliezer Gaitan asks for the resignation of the current Colombian government. He blamed them for the thousands of casualties incurred during the just ended conflict and the economic chaos the nation was suffering. The lower classes, from were the majority of the casualties came from and the ones suffering more of the slow recovery from the Depression, flock to him especially in the cities.

May 20th 1942: Eliezer Gaitan assassinated while giving speech in Bogota. Start of the Colombian Civil War. Liberal sympathizers take to the streets to fight government forces.

May 29th 1942: Liberal forces capture Bogota. Alfonso Lopez Pumarejo declared President by the Liberals. Incumbent President Eduardo Santos flees to Cartagena and asks for international recognition of his cabinet as the true government of Colombia.

[Glen]

Well, that might make it a more interesting world, I suppose. And it might bring the US more into international affairs if there are potential for both Communism and Fascism in South America.

Let me see where y'all are going with this and think about it.

Which is more likely to cause WWIII, a two sided cold war or a three sided one?

[Glen]

I will say this much...if you guys keep fleshing out events with dates like this in SA, and its well within the plausibility threshold and doesn't threaten the German Republic's existence, then I'm liable to put it in.

[perdedor99]

Well, that might make it a more interesting world, I suppose. And it might bring the US more into international affairs if there are potential for both Communism and Fascism in South America.

Let me see where y'all are going with this and think about it.

Which is more likely to cause WWIII, a two sided cold war or a three sided one?

I don't know about WWIII. The fascists and Communists are weaker in TL that in ours. The most powerful nations of the world right at the moment in that TL are democracies. Maybe a war by mistake?

[Othniel]

so my analysis of the situation was correct. Just make sure Uruguay peaceful enough so is not viewed as a threat by any side.
It won't be.. the proxy war is a side effect of my orginal goal. That South America was one place that showed ample oppertunity for revolution, yet went with coups, and civil wars. Without Africa or Southeast Asia (and Europe filled up) as a launching point to spread. Many European immigrints, including the losing socialists from Spain, Portugal, and Italy see South America as a haven for their kind. Many of the presences in Europe are influncing South American expirements with the general side effect as the others viewing each other as threats.

[Glen]

It won't be.. the proxy war is a side effect of my orginal goal. That South America was one place that showed ample oppertunity for revolution, yet went with coups, and civil wars. Without Africa or Southeast Asia (and Europe filled up) as a launching point to spread. Many European immigrints, including the losing socialists from Spain, Portugal, and Italy see South America as a haven for their kind. Many of the presences in Europe are influncing South American expirements with the general side effect as the others viewing each other as threats.

Interesting take. Sounds reasonable.

[Glen]

I don't know about WWIII. The fascists and Communists are weaker in TL that in ours. The most powerful nations of the world right at the moment in that TL are democracies. Maybe a war by mistake?

Well, that was always the fear in the end in OTL, really.

We want to avoid WWIII...

[perdedor99]

Feel sorry for Vandeberg. A major war on the Pacific, a war on South America and now a civil war close tot the Panama Canal. Not a good way to start your first term.

[Othniel]

Feel sorry for Vandeberg. A major war on the Pacific, a war on South America and now a civil war close tot the Panama Canal. Not a good way to start your first term.
There always seems to be sometype of war in South America. :p Argentina is still stable enough throughout the 40s and Uruguay is just following a trend. (Ah, the commies are taking over the world!) And Brazil won't say they are a fasicist state for at least a little while....can't risk getting the ire of everyone else...

[Glen]

QUOTE (Wendell @ Aug 28 2005, 04:46 PM)
QUOTE (Glen Finney @ Aug 28 2005, 08:38 PM)
QUOTE (Wendell @ Aug 28 2005, 04:37 PM)
QUOTE (Glen Finney @ Aug 28 2005, 08:34 PM)
QUOTE (Wendell @ Aug 28 2005, 04:14 PM)
QUOTE (Glen Finney @ Aug 28 2005, 03:04 PM)
There's an idea that has been brewing in my mind.

What do people think the chance of a Ukrainian and/or Belarussian revolt in the Soviet Union towards the end of the Second Russo-Japanese war is? What would be the world reaction?


I was thinking about this too...Could it be part of a smaller war in Europe around the same time? I missed who Vandenburg's VP was/is???

I had an idea for when it was looking like we were going to put Wilkie in the White House...What if something significant does still happen on December 7, 1941?


Taft was the one people seemed to want in the Veep spot...though personally I like Dewey.

Anyway, what significant happening were you thinking of for December 7, 1941?


WI there was a Civil Rights bill signed into law that day?

"....And former President Roosevelt remarked in his memoirs that this day would be 'a date that will go down in History.'"


Cool! Can you explain how that happens?


Maybe Republicans gain a majority in Congress, and the President sees that with events in the world as they are, that it is time to integrate the military and government-supported faculties?


Seems unlikely on two levels.

Republicans, while likely to make inroads into congress, wouldn't have a majority in either house by 1941 I think.

Also, not clear to me where the impetus for integration would be coming from here. Were either Vandenberg or Taft known for integration as a goal.

Hmmm, Truman would still be in the Senate at this point...maybe he would spearhead such a bill. But why then? What would be the rationale for the timing.

Actually, it is possible that the House might have gone to the Republicans by the 1940 election. So maybe a Republican leader in the house and Truman in the Senate?

Anyone able to give some plausibility to this idea?

[Glen]

Harry S Truman quote, "But my very stomach turned over when I learned that Negro soldiers, just back from overseas, were being dumped out of army trucks in Mississippi and beaten."

So without WWII, would there have been something else that could get this sort of response. Wikipedia also indicated that this was a rather heinous lynching.

Maybe in 1936 as some sort of reaction to the Life photo of Whites and Blacks at the Summer Olympics, some KKK get wild and do something to disgust the nation, and Truman in particular, leading down the road to some more movement on Civil Rights?

[Glen]

QUOTE (Kampfhörspiele @ Aug 28 2005, 05:11 PM)
What happens to the soviet union in the 80s/90s in this timeline? Do they go bankrupt as they did in OTL? Perhaps, maybe earlier, due to the fact that they have to keep up with several nuclear powers (Weimar Germany, Japan,Fascist Italy? ) that didn't have nukes in OTL?

Will Fascist italy face economic sanctions/difficulties as well, and later democratize?


Good questions one and all.

The Soviets are likely to have a lot less satellite nations in this timeline, and thus less access to markets and resources than OTL, and you make a good point about the nuclear powers, but they really only have to keep up with the largest one, in the end.

I wonder if the Soviet Union might actually break a lot earlier, given that they won't be the 'other' superpower in this world exactly, and thus not be able to use that as part of their attempt to appeal to patriotic sentiment.

Also, when the stuff about Stalin comes out eventually, he will be the biggest mass murderer the world has ever known, bar none. Without Hitler to point to and say, "See, the far right is a little worse even," it might discredit Soviet style communism even further.

I think the Corporatism of the Fascists is going to end up giving them economic problems as well, plus possible sanctions at some point. I think a lot of the Fascist states gradually reform and float into the Capitalist camp, especially after the founding generation of the 1920s/30s dies off.

[Glen]

QUOTE (Wendell @ Aug 28 2005, 05:13 PM)
QUOTE (Glen Finney @ Aug 28 2005, 09:09 PM)
Harry S Truman quote, "But my very stomach turned over when I learned that Negro soldiers, just back from overseas, were being dumped out of army trucks in Mississippi and beaten."

So without WWII, would there have been something else that could get this sort of response. Wikipedia also indicated that this was a rather heinous lynching.

Maybe in 1936 as some sort of reaction to the Life photo of Whites and Blacks at the Summer Olympics, some KKK get wild and do something to disgust the nation, and Truman in particular, leading down the road to some more movement on Civil Rights?


Vandenburg, not FDR, but these things do sometimes take time. Istill like McNary was Veep under Vandenburg. I was thinking about the line of U.S. Presidents in this TL....


We've had some suggestions on AH.com for the line of Presidents/VPs, but its not settled yet in my mind.

Why McNary over Taft? And what other thoughts have you had for the Presidencies...

[perdedor99]

I agree a quote like the one made by Roosevelt will be funny as hell. So Truman as president of the Senate? But IMO the people perspective is that they have done nothing that makes necessary to give them equal rights. Is different to see men in the United States Army uniform being lynched after fightinh for their country than just a regular lynching, no matter how disgusting it was

[perdedor99]

QUOTE (Wendell @ Aug 28 2005, 05:13 PM)
QUOTE (Glen Finney @ Aug 28 2005, 09:09 PM)
Harry S Truman quote, "But my very stomach turned over when I learned that Negro soldiers, just back from overseas, were being dumped out of army trucks in Mississippi and beaten."

So without WWII, would there have been something else that could get this sort of response. Wikipedia also indicated that this was a rather heinous lynching.

Maybe in 1936 as some sort of reaction to the Life photo of Whites and Blacks at the Summer Olympics, some KKK get wild and do something to disgust the nation, and Truman in particular, leading down the road to some more movement on Civil Rights?


Vandenburg, not FDR, but these things do sometimes take time. Istill like McNary was Veep under Vandenburg. I was thinking about the line of U.S. Presidents in this TL....


We've had some suggestions on AH.com for the line of Presidents/VPs, but its not settled yet in my mind.

Why McNary over Taft? And what other thoughts have you had for the Presidencies...

I think vandeberg, Taft and dewey made good presidents but I also have my doubts in regard to Harriman and Goldwater. I think Stevenson make a better President than Harriman. Harriman was even accussed of being a Russian spy by a KGB defector in the 1960's.

[perdedor99]

I'm having problems finding a reason to start the French-Axis war. You're right in regard to Franco. He was a very methodical men and very likes to study situations before jumping into them. The French could launch a war of agression and IMO will be the best option to keep the Anglo-Germans out of this. Mussolini is an idiot but after getting slapped by the Anglo-Germans in Greece I just don't see him trying so fast for France. maybe if he sees them busy somewhere else. maybe Franco security forces commit some kind of atrocity in Basques provinces and the French get a hold of it. Cause Belli? Protect the minorities and save the Spanish people of that butcher?

[Glen]

I also had thoughts that if the Soviet Union broke up in the early 70s, the resulting nations will probably be ruled by dictatorships, and since Fascism hasn't died out as ideology yet, many of them might join the Fascist camp.

What of "Nationalist China", will China be reunified in the same way OTL Germany was? What government will prevail in China in the 2000s?

I think that some may go dictator, some democratic. I do believe Fascism is going to be on the way out or evolving into something else by the 1970s, however.

I don't think that the two Chinas will be re-united. There are some real differences between Manchuria and the rest of China. I think we see Nationalist China go through a 'strong-man' period first, supported and doing business with the US. Then they go Taiwan in terms of economy, except on a Chinese scale, as well as modernizing into a democracy.

Interestingly, I see Japan going more democratic monarchy earlier (in part due to the Militarists being discredited by the war), and also allied with the US.

So I sort of see the Japanese and Nationalist Chinese being this timeline's equivalent of OTL Greece and Turkey...starting out as enemies united through common allies and enemies, but ending up working together for the most part.

I think that Red Manchuria stays communist even longer than the Russians. But maybe much like OTL's China in terms of gradual economic innovation but continued grasp on power.

Communist North Korea in this timeline, though, has a chance of being reunited with a South Korea that eventually is allowed its independence by Japan, ala West/East Germany.

[Glen]

I'm having problems finding a reason to start the French-Axis war. You're right in regard to Franco. He was a very methodical men and very likes to study situations before jumping into them. The French could launch a war of agression and IMO will be the best option to keep the Anglo-Germans out of this. Mussolini is an idiot but after getting slapped by the Anglo-Germans in Greece I just don't see him trying so fast for France. maybe if he sees them busy somewhere else. maybe Franco security forces commit some kind of atrocity in Basques provinces and the French get a hold of it. Cause Belli? Protect the minorities and save the Spanish people of that butcher?

Yeah. Me too. I think I see something erupting in North Africa more likely. A real colonial war that maybe grows into something darker as they up the ante?

The Basque idea isn't bad, except I think the French would be worried about the Basques also wanting some of Southern France for a homeland.

[perdedor99]

I think that some may go dictator, some democratic. I do believe Fascism is going to be on the way out or evolving into something else by the 1970s, however.

I don't think that the two Chinas will be re-united. There are some real differences between Manchuria and the rest of China. I think we see Nationalist China go through a 'strong-man' period first, supported and doing business with the US. Then they go Taiwan in terms of economy, except on a Chinese scale, as well as modernizing into a democracy.

Interestingly, I see Japan going more democratic monarchy earlier (in part due to the Militarists being discredited by the war), and also allied with the US.

So I sort of see the Japanese and Nationalist Chinese being this timeline's equivalent of OTL Greece and Turkey...starting out as enemies united through common allies and enemies, but ending up working together for the most part.

I think that Red Manchuria stays communist even longer than the Russians. But maybe much like OTL's China in terms of gradual economic innovation but continued grasp on power.

Communist North Korea in this timeline, though, has a chance of being reunited with a South Korea that eventually is allowed its independence by Japan, ala West/East Germany.

Very good analysis. I agree with everything, except I can see the Japanese trying economic domination of the Philippines and covert support to the independence movements in Indonesia and Indochina starting on the 1960's. The Co-Prosperity Sphere,anyone? :rolleyes: More of an economic union, Japan have the technology the rest the resources.

I don't know if Uncle Ho can hold on until the 1960's. Maybe a nationalist movement rises evolves from his Viet Minh. Will actually the French fight a guerilla war for twenty years?

[perdedor99]

Yeah. Me too. I think I see something erupting in North Africa more likely. A real colonial war that maybe grows into something darker as they up the ante?
a border dispute in Tunisia turns into a shooting war? But this war at the most will result IMO in the lost of half of Lybia on the Italian side and French Somaliland on the French side. will not be a major war. still is possible to see the use of primitive nerve gas by the Italians and the French commander Charles De Gaulle using an armored drive to capture Tripoli. Possibilites but hust a minor war IMO


The Basque idea isn't bad, except I think the French would be worried about the Basques also wanting some of Southern France for a homeland.
true. same thought in regard to the basques. We fought to free you in Spain but now we have to oppress you here. Will not look good on the World forum.

[Glen]

Very good analysis. I agree with everything, except I can see the Japanese trying economic domination of the Philippines and covert support to the independence movements in Indonesia and Indochina starting on the 1960's. The Co-Prosperity Sphere,anyone? :rolleyes: More of an economic union, Japan have the technology the rest the resources.

I don't know if Uncle Ho can hold on until the 1960's. Maybe a nationalist movement rises evolves from his Viet Minh. Will actually the French fight a guerilla war for twenty years?

Thanks.

Oh, Japan, China, and the USA will all be big players in the Asian economy by the 1960s. Maybe the Japanese help the French and Dutch colonies independence movements, very under the table, CIAesque, with plausible deniability and all. China maybe does the same, maybe even more so as there are a lot of ethnic Chinese in those nations.

[perdedor99]

Thanks.

Oh, Japan, China, and the USA will all be big players in the Asian economy by the 1960s. Maybe the Japanese help the French and Dutch colonies independence movements, very under the table, CIAesque, with plausible deniability and all. China maybe does the same, maybe even more so as there are a lot of ethnic Chinese in those nations.

I think the Philippines will be a shared market by both the US and Japan, and definitely Japan will help the rebels in Indonesia. China I see them more in Indochina, sharing a border and historically being part of China. What the French and the Dutch will do when they start seeing Chinese and Japanese armed bands of guerillas?

[Glen]

a border dispute in Tunisia turns into a shooting war? But this war at the most will result IMO in the lost of half of Lybia on the Italian side and French Somaliland on the French side. will not be a major war. still is possible to see the use of primitive nerve gas by the Italians and the French commander Charles De Gaulle using an armored drive to capture Tripoli. Possibilites but hust a minor war IMO

Ah, but if the Italians do use gas, that would change everything! That would turn it from a land dispute to a grudge match.

Also, Italy and France do share common borders, and if things went on for any length of time, I could see them starting up on the continent. And Italy wants Corsica.



true. same thought in regard to the basques. We fought to free you in Spain but now we have to oppress you here. Will not look good on the World forum.

Right.

[Glen]

I think the Philippines will be a shared market by both the US and Japan, and definitely Japan will help the rebels in Indonesia. China I see them more in Indochina, sharing a border and historically being part of China. What the French and the Dutch will do when they start seeing Chinese and Japanese armed bands of guerillas?

Oh, but they'll just do transport. The weapons will probably be Soviet or Italian made. Plausible deniability...

[perdedor99]

Ah, but if the Italians do use gas, that would change everything! That would turn it from a land dispute to a grudge match.

Also, Italy and France do share common borders, and if things went on for any length of time, I could see them starting up on the continent. And Italy wants Corsica.

An invasion of Corsica is a complete idiotic thought but the kind of things Mussolini could try. Even if he succeeds eventually his forces will be blocked when the bulk of the French fleet arrives and starves that force. Maybe we will see the largest naval battle since Jutland.

In Europe I don't know if both sides want to move the war so close home. Is different if you're fighting on the North African desert than seeing bombers flying over Nice or Milan. and we don't want Mussolini losing his grip on power in Italy.

[perdedor99]

Oh, but they'll just do transport. The weapons will probably be Soviet or Italian made. Plausible deniability...

Most likely soviet. Easier to get for both Japan and China. That will not endear whoever replaces Stalin ITTL with either the French or the Dutch. They will be saying "we are not guilty" but who is going to believe them.

[Othniel]

Most likely soviet. Easier to get for both Japan and China. That will not endear whoever replaces Stalin ITTL with either the French or the Dutch. They will be saying "we are not guilty" but who is going to believe them.
Ah the Dutch, I think they are doing rather well in this TL, as they weren't forced into union with Germany. Should be intresting to watch Wilhiemia..

[Othniel]

Question:

Status of Cuba by 1945?

[Straha]

no platt amendment giving cuba independence maybe? Fast track to statehood by the 70's-80's?

[Othniel]

no platt amendment giving cuba independence maybe? Fast track to statehood by the 70's-80's?
Platt amendment is a while back there Straha, the POD was in the 1920s. Just thinking what no world war two does to Cuba...

[luakel]

Question:

Status of Cuba by 1945?
Probably similar to OTL. I still think that Batista would still take over power. The question is if the communists would still eventually take over.

[Glen]

Okay, I know some of you have your hearts set on a Fascist fest, but I am starting to lean heavily towards some version of the following:

The Tunisia War

In the early 1940s, a border incident along the Tunisian/Libyan border gets out of hand, and Italian troops in the middle of a large exercise instead form the vanguard of the Italian invasion of Tunisia.

The UK and German Republic try to mediate between France and Italy, but surprising early successes by the Italians embolden Mussolini, who finally sees an open path to glory and the true beginning of the restoration of a Roman Empire, who refuses mediation and instead makes ridiculous demands of the French.

The war at first is an African affair, and the tide begins to turn against the Italians, which is when one of the Italian commanders chooses to use gas against the French forces. Unfortunately, these are not just native forces and French Foreign Legion, but a number of French units are gassed. The French are both horrified and outraged, demanding an attack on Italy in revenge. Il Duce shrugs and utters the Italian equivalent of, "The Die is Cast," and begins to launch his own full scale assault on the French in Europe, invading Corsica and into Savoy. Mussolini believes he can talk Franco's Spain into opening a second front in Southern France Morroco, and help close the Meditteranean to the French fleet. In this he is sadly mistaken, as Franco has no intention of entering Mr. Mussolini's war.

The British are outraged as well, and consider entering the war on the French side, but public opinion is against entering a war where gas has already been employed. France is still fearful that the Germans might try to take advantage of the situation until a meeting arranged by the British where assurances are given that the Germans will not attack France. Lettow-Vorbeck says at the meeting, "Your flank is secure. Go take care of our would-be caesar. And when his little sticks are kindling, tell him Arminius says hello."

Full scale war between the French and the Italians (invasions, air bombings, the works). Axis troops help fill out numbers for the Italians, but really are of little use. The war in the end goes badly for the Italians. King Victor Emmanuel III and the Fascist council has Mussolini removed from power and sues for peace. Loss of Italian African colonies and Sardinia. An independent Albania. Parties other than the Fascists legal once more.

Possible (and I mean this might be a stretch, but something with some of these elements) Epilogue: The Tail wags the Dog...
In the ending days of the Tunisia war, uprisings break out in Italian held Tyrol by German speakers, demanding league protection. Similar outbreaks occur in Albania and most of Yugoslavia lost to the Axis a few years previous. Germany gets an emergency mandate over the Tyrolean area and moves to support it. But Yugoslavia moves more precipitously, declaring war and attacking to retake their lost territory. Romania joins in the effort against the Hungarians mostly in revenge. And most shocking of all, Lithuania moves into the Vilnius region of Poland to reclaim the territory. The Lithuanians do surprisingly well, having over the past couple years been equipped and trained by their German allies. It is rumored that several German advisors joined the Lithuanians in this, even leading the attacks in some cases. Poland is appalled, claiming they had no intention of declaring for the axis (despite now being members) and immediately sues for peace. Both the Germans and Poles are receiving intel that the Soviets are starting to mobilize. The German Republic tries to reign in their allies. After a few spasms, the affair ends with Lithuania back in possession of Vilnius (which they refuse to surrender, they note that they never accepted or made peace technically with the Poles after they invaded the area in the 20s), Yugoslavia's bits returned to it, Albania free with the exiled King Zog and family returning. The Tyrol votes to join the German Republic.

Aftermath (this part with or without the Epilogue) - Hungary by 1948 will have the Horthy regency overthrown by a final coalition of democrats, monarchists, et al, who have agreed to restore the Hapsburg heir to the Hungarian throne. It is rumored that the group was supported by the Germans, and that as part of a condition of the support, the heir must again renounce his claim to the Austrian throne, which he does.

Fascism will limp on, but basically it is a dead letter by the 1970s...

[Othniel]

Now Glen, that version is fine and all, but it could be argued that Mussolini was simply too ambitious in foreign affairs and overstreched himself. If Estrada Novo (new state) Facism is sucessful in Brazil I could imagine it being used in some newly independant Africian Countries when the time comes..

[Glen]

Now Glen, that version is fine and all, but it could be argued that Mussolini was simply too ambitious in foreign affairs and overstreched himself. If Estrada Novo (new state) Facism is sucessful in Brazil I could imagine it being used in some newly independant Africian Countries when the time comes..

That would be fine, Oth. Write up your proposed events with dates. I'm certain that there will be some who might do some form of 'Fascism', though admit it, what you really want is Syndicalism... ;)

[Glen]

But, China was being supported to a limited extent by the U.S. in the 1930's to keep Japan in check. Who said that Japan couldn't/wouldn't pummel the Soviets?

p99 and DQ made rather good arguments for why the Japanese lose to the Soviets in an Asian Land War...

[perdedor99]

Okay, I know some of you have your hearts set on a Fascist fest, but I am starting to lean heavily towards some version of the following:

The Tunisia War

In the early 1940s, a border incident along the Tunisian/Libyan border gets out of hand, and Italian troops in the middle of a large exercise instead form the vanguard of the Italian invasion of Tunisia.

The UK and German Republic try to mediate between France and Italy, but surprising early successes by the Italians embolden Mussolini, who finally sees an open path to glory and the true beginning of the restoration of a Roman Empire, who refuses mediation and instead makes ridiculous demands of the French.

The war at first is an African affair, and the tide begins to turn against the Italians, which is when one of the Italian commanders chooses to use gas against the French forces. Unfortunately, these are not just native forces and French Foreign Legion, but a number of French units are gassed. The French are both horrified and outraged, demanding an attack on Italy in revenge. Il Duce shrugs and utters the Italian equivalent of, "The Die is Cast," and begins to launch his own full scale assault on the French in Europe, invading Corsica and into Savoy. Mussolini believes he can talk Franco's Spain into opening a second front in Southern France Morroco, and help close the Meditteranean to the French fleet. In this he is sadly mistaken, as Franco has no intention of entering Mr. Mussolini's war.

The British are outraged as well, and consider entering the war on the French side, but public opinion is against entering a war where gas has already been employed. France is still fearful that the Germans might try to take advantage of the situation until a meeting arranged by the British where assurances are given that the Germans will not attack France. Lettow-Vorbeck says at the meeting, "Your flank is secure. Go take care of our would-be caesar. And when his little sticks are kindling, tell him Arminius says hello."

Full scale war between the French and the Italians (invasions, air bombings, the works). Axis troops help fill out numbers for the Italians, but really are of little use. The war in the end goes badly for the Italians. King Victor Emmanuel III and the Fascist council has Mussolini removed from power and sues for peace. Loss of Italian African colonies and Sardinia. An independent Albania. Parties other than the Fascists legal once more.

Possible (and I mean this might be a stretch, but something with some of these elements) Epilogue: The Tail wags the Dog...
In the ending days of the Tunisia war, uprisings break out in Italian held Tyrol by German speakers, demanding league protection. Similar outbreaks occur in Albania and most of Yugoslavia lost to the Axis a few years previous. Germany gets an emergency mandate over the Tyrolean area and moves to support it. But Yugoslavia moves more precipitously, declaring war and attacking to retake their lost territory. Romania joins in the effort against the Hungarians mostly in revenge. And most shocking of all, Lithuania moves into the Vilnius region of Poland to reclaim the territory. The Lithuanians do surprisingly well, having over the past couple years been equipped and trained by their German allies. It is rumored that several German advisors joined the Lithuanians in this, even leading the attacks in some cases. Poland is appalled, claiming they had no intention of declaring for the axis (despite now being members) and immediately sues for peace. Both the Germans and Poles are receiving intel that the Soviets are starting to mobilize. The German Republic tries to reign in their allies. After a few spasms, the affair ends with Lithuania back in possession of Vilnius (which they refuse to surrender, they note that they never accepted or made peace technically with the Poles after they invaded the area in the 20s), Yugoslavia's bits returned to it, Albania free with the exiled King Zog and family returning. The Tyrol votes to join the German Republic.

Aftermath (this part with or without the Epilogue) - Hungary by 1948 will have the Horthy regency overthrown by a final coalition of democrats, monarchists, et al, who have agreed to restore the Hapsburg heir to the Hungarian throne. It is rumored that the group was supported by the Germans, and that as part of a condition of the support, the heir must again renounce his claim to the Austrian throne, which he does.

Fascism will limp on, but basically it is a dead letter by the 1970s...

IMO the French will not win a war so completely by themselves as you describe it. Mussolini will be removed. So I agree the post Italian leader died on his sleep need to be changed to former leader and his succesor gave the eulogy. I don't think the other nations will start launching invasions either. No reason at all to do that. My take. Negotiated peace, Italy loses Tripoli and southern Lybia plus Sardinia. have to return French Somaliland. Mussolini dismissed. End of it. No invasions of Italy by germany, neither invasions of Poland or Yugoslavian attacks. You have to be stupid to leave a viable Yugoslavian army in place after the negotiations. I don't see the Germans doing all that or the French getting a victory so complete. The italians could held the French on the Alps passes for months or longer and they are fighting in a narrow front.This will be WW1 on that front. Not the type of war the French like. Fascists will survive but their times of expansion are over. They will go away but they will not crumble as you describe it

[Othniel]

That would be fine, Oth. Write up your proposed events with dates. I'm certain that there will be some who might do some form of 'Fascism', though admit it, what you really want is Syndicalism... ;)
Acualty I don't have to change much. Without World war two, or Hitler there is no reason to liberialise Brazil's Estado Novo, which was already qausi-fascist. I was going to put in a publiciation on Mussolini's errors in running a fascist country written by Vargas. His populistic version of fascism with an added desire to colonize the interior, and a different heir results in a more permant Brazillian fascist state, that is much milder than the European models. Something like this confuses the heck out of most democracies, as they cannot decide if it is good or bad. Vargas was a very adaptable leader and without WW2 I see the New State being the shining example of fascism being done properly.

Just look at OTL;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Brazil_%281930-1945%29


The coup in 1945 not happening, and no sucide in 1954 leads to a more premenant fascist state. Vargas steps down later in his old age, João Goulart is made his heir. Assuming we aviod the coups Brazil will have a very strong fascist model.

[Othniel]

Either that or there is no New State and the Integralist take over in a coup. They are both Quasi-fasicist movements with non-racial polocies and multi-ethic intrests. Both seem more effective than fascism, and I think would replace fascism in due time. Prehaps the unproven intergralism gets a chance in Africa come this tl.

[Wendell]

So, where will this leave Iceland?

[Othniel]

So, where will this leave Iceland?
In the hands of Danemark?

[Wendell]

In the hands of Danemark?
I am asking how Danish it would stay, if at all, yes.

[Othniel]

I am asking how Danish it would stay, if at all, yes.
Without World War 2 we don't see Denmark being ceased by Germany and thus no independance afterwords.

[Wendell]

Without World War 2 we don't see Denmark being ceased by Germany and thus no independance afterwords.
I know, but will it delay or stop the severance?

[Glen]

My guess Iceland stays with Denmark.

[Glen]

IMO the French will not win a war so completely by themselves as you describe it. Mussolini will be removed. So I agree the post Italian leader died on his sleep need to be changed to former leader and his succesor gave the eulogy. I don't think the other nations will start launching invasions either. No reason at all to do that. My take. Negotiated peace, Italy loses Tripoli and southern Lybia plus Sardinia. have to return French Somaliland. Mussolini dismissed. End of it. No invasions of Italy by germany, neither invasions of Poland or Yugoslavian attacks.

You may have reason, here, though I think it could be racheted up a bit more than this to make it worse for the Italians. I think that Mussolini badly miscalculated, believing he could draw Franco into the war on his side. And while you are right that the actual border between Italy and France on the Continent might not move, there are other ways to hurt Italy. An air war comes to mind, and even the possibility of French amphibious landings in Italy (Sicily again?) once they get naval superiority.

You have to be stupid to leave a viable Yugoslavian army in place after the negotiations.

Not so much stupid as not having a choice. The Germans in between are building up the Yugoslavians as a check on the Italians and Hungarians. Think Italy is going to go to war against Germany over that? With the British threatening to come in as well? They got their pound of flesh at the negotiations, but after than the Germans are going to make certain that they don't get another bite.

I don't see the Germans doing all that

Actually, the Germans don't do much of anything in this scenario. The show of Fascist weakness, as well as the involvement of most of their troops to the West, leads to popular revolts against an unpopular rule. All the Germans do is support the Tyrolean revolt. The Yugoslavs make a grab for their former territories, which have also risen up, aided by the Romanians who are in it to screw the Hungarians and Bulgarians for their war of agression against them.

The Lithuanian bit is a stretch, I freely admit. I could see it happening, but it is a gamble and could very well cause the Soviets to get involved.

I'm not saying I'd keep any of this, but some might be interesting. I think that the Italian empire is a bit of a house of cards at this point. With the French showing them up, a lot of people with old grudges are going to want to break away.

in the war leads to a number of popular revolts or the French getting a victory so complete. The italians could held the French on the Alps passes for months or longer and they are fighting in a narrow front.This will be WW1 on that front. Not the type of war the French like.

See above.

Fascists will survive but their times of expansion are over. They will go away but they will not crumble as you describe it

Really? Their rule is based on the illusion of strength. Show that up, and what else do they have?

I'm not saying your wrong, but I do want to explore these possibilities further and see what we get, if anything.

[Glen]

I would like to start 'finalizing' history for the timeline.

I think we will go by decade, with the first one stretching from 1920-1929.

Overall, I think the events so far for the 1920s are fine, and there probably shouldn't be many added, as the timeline is unlikely to diverge much at this point outside of Germany and some Europe.

If anyone wants to come up with a few events for Adolf Hitler's early career in Austria with the Heimwehr, feel free, just so long as it doesn't contradict what we've already established.

1920
March 13, 1920 Reichstag member Wolfgang Kapp makes an impassioned speech on the floor of the Reichstag protesting the end of pay to Freicorps members. He warns that many more actions like this could lead to a nationwide Putsch. (OTL Kapp was one of the leaders of the Kapp Putsch.)
March 14, 1920 Central Schleswig votes over 80% in favor of reunification with Germany.
March 20, 1920 A NSDAP sympathizer within the Reichswehr blows the whistle on up and comer within the party, Adolf Hitler, who is revealed to be a Reichswehr spy.
March 31, 1920 Alleged Reichswehr spy Adolf Hitler mustered out of the Reichswehr, and is reported to return to his native Austria.
April 10, 1920 Government stops paying Freikorps units.
May 9, 1920 Hilter joins the Heimwehr in Austria.
June 20, 1920 Elections for the Reichstag result in significant gains for the DVP and DNVP, minor loses for the SPD. Chancellor Gustav Bauer (SPD) forms a new grand coalition government and reorganizes the cabinet; making Gustav Stresemann (DVP) Foreign Minister.
August 11, 1920 National Disarmament Law takes effect; disbanded civil guards.
August 19, 1920 Second Silesia Uprising, French troops do little to control the situation.

1921
January 16, 1921 Aristide Briand becomes Prime Minister of France, begins shortly thereafter discussions with German Foreign Minister Gustav Stresemann regarding reparations.
March 21, 1921 Plebiscite held in Upper Silesia. They vote to remain part of Germany.
May 3, 1921 Polish forces under Wojciech Korfantry invade Upper Silesia.
May 4, 1921 Stresemann gets Briand’s France to enforce the rule of law in Upper Silesia, the Poles are required to leave.
July 1, 1921 Tentative agreement is reached for more favorable reparation payments by Germany, mostly due to the growing respect between Briand and Stresemann.
July 11, 1921 NSDAP under Anton Drexler votes to join Julius Streicher’s DSP.

1922
January 15, 1922 Stresemann secures loans to German government allowing Reichsmark to be fixed to a gold standard.
April 16, 1922 Treaty of Rapallo signed between Germany and the Soviet Union.
July 21, 1922 High inflation begins in Austria. The gold standard based German Reichsmark is little affected.
October 27, 1922 Benito Mussolini establishes his Fascist dictatorship in Italy.

1923
March 13, 1923 Adolf Hitler, inspired by the example of Benito Mussolini, starts a more political wing of the Heimwehr, centered on the Pan-Germanic faction of the paramilitary group.
June 3, 1923 After new elections for the Reichstag, Gustav Stresemann becomes Chancellor of a center-right coalition government. He retains the portfolio of Foreign Minister.

1924
February 28, 1924 Reichspresident Friedrich Ebert makes first visit of a German head of state to Great Britain since the war.
November 22, 1924 Strasser wing of DSP goes into rebellion over Streicher’s leadership.
December 1, 1924 Locarno Treaty signed

1925
January 14, 1925 Germany enters the League of Nations.
September 10, 1925 Germany successfully lobbies for a referendum in the Memel region, and they vote in favor of reunification with Germany.

1926
February 14, 1926 Bamberg conference begins.
April 24, 1926 Germany and Soviet Union sign Berlin Treaty.
June 3, 1926 Friedrich Ebert narrowly wins re-election on the second ballot when the right rallies from a poor showing in the first round by drafting General Paul von Hindenburg as their candidate in the second round.

1927
June 3, 1927 General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck made Army Chief of Staff.
November 9, 1927 Chancellor Stresemann concludes Treaty of Munich with Czechoslovakia formally recognizing the border between Germany and Czechoslovakia in return for concessions to the German minority in the Sudetenland, including recognition of German as an official language of Czechoslovakia and a minimum number of spots in the Czech cabinet for ethnic Germans.

1928
February 3, 1928 The Simon Commission lands in Bombay. The first of many boycotts organized by the Indian National Congress occurs.
October 24, 1928 Chancellor Gustav Stresemann dies of a massive heart attack. Hermann Mueller forms grand coalition government and replaces him as Chancellor.

1929
December 10, 1929 The collapse of the stock exchange in New York City starts a world economic collapse.

[Glen]

I would like to start 'finalizing' history for the timeline.

I think we will go by decade, with the first one stretching from 1920-1929.

Overall, I think the events so far for the 1920s are fine, and there probably shouldn't be many added, as the timeline is unlikely to diverge much at this point outside of Germany and some Europe.

If anyone wants to come up with a few events for Adolf Hitler's early career in Austria with the Heimwehr, feel free, just so long as it doesn't contradict what we've already established.

1920
March 13, 1920 Reichstag member Wolfgang Kapp makes an impassioned speech on the floor of the Reichstag protesting the end of pay to Freicorps members. He warns that many more actions like this could lead to a nationwide Putsch. (OTL Kapp was one of the leaders of the Kapp Putsch.)
March 14, 1920 Central Schleswig votes over 80% in favor of reunification with Germany.
March 20, 1920 A NSDAP sympathizer within the Reichswehr blows the whistle on up and comer within the party, Adolf Hitler, who is revealed to be a Reichswehr spy.
March 31, 1920 Alleged Reichswehr spy Adolf Hitler mustered out of the Reichswehr, and is reported to return to his native Austria.
April 10, 1920 Government stops paying Freikorps units.
May 9, 1920 Hilter joins the Heimwehr in Austria.
June 20, 1920 Elections for the Reichstag result in significant gains for the DVP and DNVP, minor loses for the SPD. Chancellor Gustav Bauer (SPD) forms a new grand coalition government and reorganizes the cabinet; making Gustav Stresemann (DVP) Foreign Minister.
August 11, 1920 National Disarmament Law takes effect; disbanded civil guards.
August 19, 1920 Second Silesia Uprising, French troops do little to control the situation.

1921
January 16, 1921 Aristide Briand becomes Prime Minister of France, begins shortly thereafter discussions with German Foreign Minister Gustav Stresemann regarding reparations.
March 21, 1921 Plebiscite held in Upper Silesia. They vote to remain part of Germany.
May 3, 1921 Polish forces under Wojciech Korfantry invade Upper Silesia.
May 4, 1921 Stresemann gets Briand’s France to enforce the rule of law in Upper Silesia, the Poles are required to leave.
July 1, 1921 Tentative agreement is reached for more favorable reparation payments by Germany, mostly due to the growing respect between Briand and Stresemann.
July 11, 1921 NSDAP under Anton Drexler votes to join Julius Streicher’s DSP.

1922
January 15, 1922 Stresemann secures loans to German government allowing Reichsmark to be fixed to a gold standard.
April 16, 1922 Treaty of Rapallo signed between Germany and the Soviet Union.
July 21, 1922 High inflation begins in Austria. The gold standard based German Reichsmark is little affected.
October 27, 1922 Benito Mussolini establishes his Fascist dictatorship in Italy.

1923
March 13, 1923 Adolf Hitler, inspired by the example of Benito Mussolini, starts a more political wing of the Heimwehr, centered on the Pan-Germanic faction of the paramilitary group.
June 3, 1923 After new elections for the Reichstag, Gustav Stresemann becomes Chancellor of a center-right coalition government. He retains the portfolio of Foreign Minister.

1924
February 28, 1924 Reichspresident Friedrich Ebert makes first visit of a German head of state to Great Britain since the war.
November 22, 1924 Strasser wing of DSP goes into rebellion over Streicher’s leadership.
December 1, 1924 Locarno Treaty signed

1925
January 14, 1925 Germany enters the League of Nations.
September 10, 1925 Germany successfully lobbies for a referendum in the Memel region, and they vote in favor of reunification with Germany.

1926
February 14, 1926 Bamberg conference begins.
April 24, 1926 Germany and Soviet Union sign Berlin Treaty.
June 3, 1926 Friedrich Ebert narrowly wins re-election on the second ballot when the right rallies from a poor showing in the first round by drafting General Paul von Hindenburg as their candidate in the second round.

1927
June 3, 1927 General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck made Army Chief of Staff.
November 9, 1927 Chancellor Stresemann concludes Treaty of Munich with Czechoslovakia formally recognizing the border between Germany and Czechoslovakia in return for concessions to the German minority in the Sudetenland, including recognition of German as an official language of Czechoslovakia and a minimum number of spots in the Czech cabinet for ethnic Germans.

1928
February 3, 1928 The Simon Commission lands in Bombay. The first of many boycotts organized by the Indian National Congress occurs.
October 24, 1928 Chancellor Gustav Stresemann dies of a massive heart attack. Hermann Mueller forms grand coalition government and replaces him as Chancellor.

1929
December 10, 1929 The collapse of the stock exchange in New York City starts a world economic collapse.

Need to add an event myself -

October 3, 1925 Committee announces that the Nobel Peace Prize will be awarded to Austen Chamberlain, Aristide Briand, and Gustav Stresemann for the Locarno treaty.

[Othniel]

I'd like to hear what is happening in Africa.

[Glen]

I'd like to hear what is happening in Africa.

In general, or during the 1920s?

I would suggest that during the 1920s, it is almost exactly OTL.

Over time, especially after 1939, diverging. Your ideas are appreciated and you should feel free to come up with some possibilities for Africa.

[Othniel]

Well I don't sense much change in Africa till 1940s with the exception of the German administation in Africa. Portuguese proto-fasicism will probably make communism more attractive to the natives of Portuguese colonies, or they will adapt what is known to them. Soviet Angola, 1972?

[Glen]

Well I don't sense much change in Africa till 1940s with the exception of the German administation in Africa. Portuguese proto-fasicism will probably make communism more attractive to the natives of Portuguese colonies, or they will adapt what is known to them. Soviet Angola, 1972?

If Angola didn't go Communist in OTL, it is even less likely in this one, I'd say.

I believe Germany lost all their African Colonies after WWI, or did I remember this wrong?

[Glen]

Seeing no further comment, I will make this the official 1920s timeline for this project. I will consider some additions on a case by case basis, but they must not at this point contradict any of these events.

1920
March 13, 1920 Reichstag member Wolfgang Kapp makes an impassioned speech on the floor of the Reichstag protesting the end of pay to Freicorps members. He warns that many more actions like this could lead to a nationwide Putsch. (OTL Kapp was one of the leaders of the Kapp Putsch.)
March 14, 1920 Central Schleswig votes over 80% in favor of reunification with Germany.
March 20, 1920 A NSDAP sympathizer within the Reichswehr blows the whistle on up and comer within the party, Adolf Hitler, who is revealed to be a Reichswehr spy.
March 31, 1920 Alleged Reichswehr spy Adolf Hitler mustered out of the Reichswehr, and is reported to return to his native Austria.
April 10, 1920 Government stops paying Freikorps units.
May 9, 1920 Hilter joins the Heimwehr in Austria.
June 20, 1920 Elections for the Reichstag result in significant gains for the DVP and DNVP, minor loses for the SPD. Chancellor Gustav Bauer (SPD) forms a new grand coalition government and reorganizes the cabinet; making Gustav Stresemann (DVP) Foreign Minister.
August 11, 1920 National Disarmament Law takes effect; disbanded civil guards.
August 19, 1920 Second Silesia Uprising, French troops do little to control the situation.

1921
January 16, 1921 Aristide Briand becomes Prime Minister of France, begins shortly thereafter discussions with German Foreign Minister Gustav Stresemann regarding reparations.
March 21, 1921 Plebiscite held in Upper Silesia. They vote to remain part of Germany.
May 3, 1921 Polish forces under Wojciech Korfantry invade Upper Silesia.
May 4, 1921 Stresemann gets Briand’s France to enforce the rule of law in Upper Silesia, the Poles are required to leave.
July 1, 1921 Tentative agreement is reached for more favorable reparation payments by Germany, mostly due to the growing respect between Briand and Stresemann.
July 11, 1921 NSDAP under Anton Drexler votes to join Julius Streicher’s DSP.

1922
January 15, 1922 Stresemann secures loans to German government allowing Reichsmark to be fixed to a gold standard.
April 16, 1922 Treaty of Rapallo signed between Germany and the Soviet Union.
July 21, 1922 High inflation begins in Austria. The gold standard based German Reichsmark is little affected.
October 27, 1922 Benito Mussolini establishes his Fascist dictatorship in Italy.

1923
March 13, 1923 Adolf Hitler, inspired by the example of Benito Mussolini, starts a more political wing of the Heimwehr, centered on the Pan-Germanic faction of the paramilitary group.
June 3, 1923 After new elections for the Reichstag, Gustav Stresemann becomes Chancellor of a center-right coalition government. He retains the portfolio of Foreign Minister.

1924
February 28, 1924 Reichspresident Friedrich Ebert makes first visit of a German head of state to Great Britain since the war.
November 22, 1924 Strasser wing of DSP goes into rebellion over Streicher’s leadership.
December 1, 1924 Locarno Treaty signed.

1925
January 14, 1925 Germany enters the League of Nations.
September 10, 1925 Germany successfully lobbies for a referendum in the Memel region, and they vote in favor of reunification with Germany.
October 3, 1925 Committee announces that the Nobel Peace Prize will be awarded to Austen Chamberlain, Aristide Briand, and Gustav Stresemann for the Locarno treaty.

1926
February 14, 1926 Bamberg conference begins.
April 24, 1926 Germany and Soviet Union sign Berlin Treaty.
June 3, 1926 Friedrich Ebert narrowly wins re-election on the second ballot when the right rallies from a poor showing in the first round by drafting General Paul von Hindenburg as their candidate in the second round.

1927
June 3, 1927 General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck made Army Chief of Staff.
November 9, 1927 Chancellor Stresemann concludes Treaty of Munich with Czechoslovakia formally recognizing the border between Germany and Czechoslovakia in return for concessions to the German minority in the Sudetenland, including recognition of German as an official language of Czechoslovakia and a minimum number of spots in the Czech cabinet for ethnic Germans.

1928
February 3, 1928 The Simon Commission lands in Bombay. The first of many boycotts organized by the Indian National Congress occurs.
October 24, 1928 Chancellor Gustav Stresemann dies of a massive heart attack. Hermann Mueller forms grand coalition government and replaces him as Chancellor.

1929
December 10, 1929 The collapse of the stock exchange in New York City starts a world economic collapse.

[Othniel]

If Angola didn't go Communist in OTL, it is even less likely in this one, I'd say.

Angola was communist 1975 onward.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Movement_for_the_Liberation_of_Angola

Germany held German East Africa until 1919 if you want to nitpick. German New Guenia held some territories until 1920. But yes they lost their territories, either to the league of nations or to Britian in the majorty of cases.

[Glen]

Northern European Alliance? But with Greece and Turkey joining it doesn't make sense. The Democratic Front?

Northern European Alliance is fine.

Makes as much sense later as NATO ;)

[Glen]

Othniel, I really want to incorporate your take on world events along with p99's into the timeline, especially for SA and Africa.

Can you write some events with specific dates to add to the timeline that will put in those ideas? Especially about Brazil.

I just have no time to do it all myself.

[Othniel]

Time is needed. :) Especially regarding Argentina. But sense I have the next three hours open I suppose working on this tl specillifically can be made the priority.

[Glen]

I'd like to start finalizing the 1930s for the timeline. I think we're pretty solid for Germany here too, but there is certainly room for adding world events here.

In the 1930s, especially from 1933 on, we will see more divergence starting, both due to the continuation of the German Republic under President Lettow-Vorbeck and the Austrian Civil War with Hitler's involvement.

If you have anything to comment on in this timeline, now is the time. Additions are of course welcome, and may even be allowed on a case by case basis later if they don't contradict what we decide shortly. However, if you want to propose some events (or changes to events) that would impact these 1930s events, now is the time to speak.

1930
March 12 1930 Gandhi starts his march to protest the salt tax law.
June 30, 1930 Hermann Mueller leaves office when his own party (SPD) abandons the coalition. Center right coalition forms with Center party leader Heinrich Bruening as Chancellor.
July 4 1930 Lord Irwin, after meeting with members of the governing Labour Party in London, announces a round table will be created to discuss India’s constitutional progress to achieve Dominion status.
November 12 1930 The first round table meetings on India show the differences between the Muslims and the Hindus. The Hindus wanted a strong central government while the Muslims wanted a loose confederation. Also the Sikhs want a Sikh nation in Punjab.

1931
January 12th 1931 The first round table meetings on India end. What emerges is an agreement to safe guard minorities in the constitution and the creation of a weak federal government to appease the Muslim delegates.
March 5 1931 Second round table meetings on India begin. Gandhi misses the meetings due to health reasons and the Congress representatives agree on the basis of a communal settlement for India. On the return to India of the delegates, Gandhi disavows their actions in London. This divides the Indian National Congress party. The Gandhi faction starts civil disobedience but the division of their party shows they are not the representatives of the whole Indian people.
June 1, 1931 Three million unemployed reported in Germany.
June 20, 1931 Herbert Hoover puts moratorium on reparations.
August 11, 1931 Austrian Kreditanstalt collapses.
September 13, 1931 The German bank crisis occurs.
September 20, 1931 Alfred Hugenberg made leader of DNVP by narrow margin.
October 11, 1931 Attempts to form a coalition between DNVP, Stahlhelm, DSP, and the Strasser splinter group fail. DNVP decides to stay in the government for the time being.

1932

March 5, 1932 Julius Streicher, leader of the DSP, high profile arrest on obsenity and perversion charges. The trial stretching through much of 1932 is a nadir for the far right.
April 20, 1932 Darkhorse candidate Carl Friedrich Goerdeler successfully challenges Alfred Hugenberg for leadership of the DNVP. Vows the DNVP will stay the course with the current government.

1933
March 31, 1933 A conservative coup d’etat topples the socialist government of Uruguay. The socialist reform leaders are either assassinated or fled into exile, and a Conservative dictatorship begins. The Colorado party turns further to the left during the dictatorship years.
April 10, 1933 Friedrich Ebert loses badly in the second round of elections against center right consensus candidate and war hero Reichswehr Chief of Staff Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck. Former President Ebert in his concession speech calls for a peaceful transition, which by and large happens.
August 5 1933 The Government of India Act of 1933 announced and will be implemented by 1935.
August 7, 1933 DNVP leader Carl Friedrich Goerdeler becomes Chancellor of Germany.
October 23, 1933 Letter from Ludwig Erhard regarding economic reform so impresses Chancellor Goerdeler that he brings the man onto his staff as an advisor.

1934
February 12, 1934 Kummersdorf becomes the base for military rocket research.
March 21, 1934 Adolf Hitler’s Heimwehr faction begins a civil war after refusing to join Engelbert Dolfuss’s Fatherland Front (clerical faction of the Heimwehr joins the Fatherland Front, but is in the minority due to the recruitment efforts of the Charismatic Hitler). Several extremist volunteers from both Germany and Czechoslovakia swarm over the border to join the conflict in the early days. Socialists in Vienna take advantage of the chaos and take over the capitol, but can’t make progress very far from the city. With the onset of the Austrian Civil War, Albert Einstein leaves Austria, immigrating to Germany.
May 5, 1934 League of Nations declares a weapons embargo of all sides in the Austrian Civil War, which is promptly violated by both the Soviets and Italians. The Italians are secretly sending aid to both the Hitler and Dolfuss factions.
July 2, 1934 Former General Paul von Hindenburg dies, and Germany is thrown into a state of mourning that rivals that after the death of Chancellor Stresemann.

1935
January 13, 1935 Saarland votes over 90% to reunite with Germany.
May 20, 1935 Under pressure from Great Britain and with worsening economic problems domestically, France acquiesces to ‘limited’ German rearmament. Afterward, the rapid ‘development’ of the Reichswehr makes previous German covert rearming apparent, but the Great Powers turn a blind eye to this.
July 8, 1935 The Dominion of India is created. Subhas Bose is named Prime Minister with Mohammed Ali Jinnah as second in command. An Indian parliament is created but British institutions and borders are maintained for the time being. The Indian National Party reunifies but they admit their failure in getting the support of the Muslims, but the two rival parties made impossible the continued existence of this arrangement.
August 30, 1935 Token military force enters the Rhineland. The French government proclaims this as a great victory as the German force is not even enough to defend the Rhineland, much less threaten France. The German government point to this as the full restoration of German sovereignty and the return of Germany as a full member of the international family of nations.
October 3, 1935 Italian troops invade Abyssinia.
November 13, 1935 While the Austrian civil war has so far accomplished little except have several notable extremists of the age die gloriously in battle, Hitler makes a bold speech by radio from an undisclosed location, calling for the unification of Germans in Germany and Czechoslovakia with Austria. The speech is only heard in the local area of the broadcast.

1936
May 30, 1936 Italy annexes Abyssinia after a year long war which includes the use of mustard gas. By the end of June, after League condemnation of the annexation, Italy leaves the League of Nations.
July 10, 1936 The Spanish Civil War begins.
September 1, 1936 ‘Red’ Vienna falls to a Fatherland Front attack to regain the capital, but Hitler’s faction then attacks the exsanguinated forces of Dolfuss; the city will be a divided war-zone for the rest of the conflict.
August 16, 1936 Closing Ceremonies of the 1936 Berlin Olympics. The event is a showcase of the German Republic. President Lettow-Vorbeck hosted a number of his former Askari in Berlin, allowed by London to travel from Tanzania for the event. Later, a photo in Time magazine of the German President congratulating Jesse Owens with the Askari at his side leads the KKK in the American South to denounce the German leader.
September 20, 1936 Germany and the West, fed up with the chaos in Austria and now civil war in Spain, agree to allow German intervention in Austria. With the knock-out of the Socialists from the war, French Prime Minister Leon Blum sees little reason to hinder a Republican Germany from intervening, as the success of either of the remaining two factions would be undesirable. German troops stream over the border and overall are greeted as saviors by the war weary Austrians.
October 21, 1936 Hitler, rather than surrendering, commits suicide in his hideout in the mountains. Nearly all the Dolfuss and Hitler faction forces have surrendered to the rapidly advancing Germans, often without a fight. The few die-hard units are quickly dispatched by the Reichswehr. Dolfuss retires from politicis.
December 9, 1936 After a few months of diplomacy, Italy acquiesces to German occupation and a vote on Anschluss after the German government agrees to recognize the possession of the South Tyrol by Italy.

1937
February 14, 1937 The Austrians hold a referendum overwhelmingly supporting unification with Germany. Though the Treaty of Saint Germaine forbade Austria from political or economic union with Germany, Germany points out that they were not party to that agreement, and that the Austrian government had essentially ceased to exist. World sentiment seems to favor the unification.
March 15, 1937 Stalin, concerned about the close ties that developed between Soviet military officers and the Germans during the years of cooperation in the 1920s, launches a purge of the Red Army that will last the year, essentially crippling the Red Army for the next several years.
March 9, 1937 Completion of move of military rocket research to Peenemünde (on the recommendation of Werner von Braun). Kummersdorf converted over to military applications of atomic research, involving not only several German physicists, but also many Hungarian scientists who have immigrated to Germany to escape the repressive regime in Hungary.
April 12, 1937 Italy and Hungary form a mutual defense pact, called the Rome-Budapest Axis by Mussolini.
July 24, 1937 Germany proposes in the League of Nations a referendum on Danzig and the Polish Corridor. Poland at first is against the idea.
August 20, 1937 Poland, thinking they could win a referendum that includes both the Kassubian populated Polish corridor and the German Danzig, and noting that a significant portion of the Reichswehr is still in Austria, gamble and announce their willingness for the vote to happen, but that it must occur by mid September. Germany agrees.
September 10, 1937 Less than a week before the Polish Corridor referendum, the Reichstag approves sweeping minority rights legislation. This will be the keystone to a wave of radio broadcast German campaign to win over Kashubians to the German Republic. Emphasis is also placed in the broadcasts on Sorbs, another Slavic group living within the Republic who have done well, as well as making distinction between the Kashubians and the Poles.
September 15, 1937 The Polish Corridor referendum, though fraught with fraud on both sides, shows a majority in favor of unification with the German Republic. Very high turnout in Danzig is one factor; another is the substantial minority of Kashubian voters who also vote for unification with Germany. While the German minority legislation and 11th hour campaign are believed to have been important factors, most historians believe the deciding factors were actually the stability in recent years of the German government and their substantially better economic performance during the Great Depression than most nations in Europe and indeed the world.
September 16, 1937 When the result of the referendum starts to become clear, Poland repudiates it as rigged and begins to move troops into the region as a ‘stabilizing measure’. However, within hours of the Polish actions, heavy German troop movement is reported all along the border with Germany, many being identified as troops believed to be in Austria, and even the Czechs appear to be mobilizing. Fearing a general invasion is about to occur, Marshal Edward Rydz-Śmigły begins to redeploy troops to hold off a large scale invasion and protect the capitol and key industrial centers.
September 17, 1937 In the predawn hours the Germans strike as expected in the Polish Corridor, but in an unexpected manner. Paratroops land throughout the narrow corridor, within the lines of the Polish forces in the region. The surprise move throws the Polish forces there into disarray, which then is taken advantage of by German troops moving in from Germany proper and East Germany. The German Chancellor announces that the intention of the Germans is to only enforce the will of the people in the recent referendum. Rydz-Śmigły refuses offers of assistance from the Soviets.
September 25, 1937 The leaders of France and Great Britain meet with the Germans in Hamburg to discuss the Polish Crisis. By this time, Polish troops have been expelled from the narrow Polish Corridor, allowing the formation of a continuous defensive line between now linked East Prussia and the rest of Germany. Despite Marshal Rydz-Śmigły’s continued belief that the Germans will launch a full out assault, the Germans and Czechs have taken up defensive positions only and no further incursions into Poland have occurred. The entire threatened invasion was an enormous bluff playing on Polish fears which tied down the bulk of their battle ready troops. After personal assurances by President Lettow-Vorbeck himself, the British and French agree to support the annexation of the Polish Corridor to Germany in return for Germany finally accepting the rest of their Eastern border with Poland and allowing liberal access through to the Baltic for Polish businesses. With no support from the West, and fear of the Soviets, the Poles feel no choice but to tacitly accept what they refer to as ‘the selling out of Poland’.
October 1, 1937 Prime Minister Joseph Chamberlain returns in triumph to London announcing that they shall have ‘peace in our time’ and that ‘President Lettow-Vorbeck is an honorable man who we may trust to keep his word, both for himself and his nation’.

1938
May 1, 1938 On a date possibly chosen for irony, then nations of Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Germany, and Czechoslovakia announce a Northern European Alliance to defend against Communism, the Soviets particularly, and other threats to their nations. Quietly, Great Britain has given assurances of support for the group as well.
July 14, 1938 First jet airplane flight occurs at Heinkel Field.

1939
January 13, 1939 Nuclear Fission discovered by Otto Hahn, Lise Meitner and coworkers at the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Institute for Chemistry in Berlin.
February 9, 1939 Bulgaria joins the Axis ‘Pact of Steel’ with Italy and Hungary.
April 17, 1939 Italy attacks Albania, taking control of the small nation in the name of King Victor Emmanuel III.
June 23, 1939 The Nationalists have taken Madrid, and Franco declares victory, becoming the Fascist dictator of Spain.
November 4, 1939 Start of the Yugoslavian Crisis. Italy, Hungary, and Bulgaria invade Yugoslavia, threatening to completely partition the country. Within days Yugoslavia stands on the brink of collapse. German forces in German Austria mobilize all along the border, and the British demand that the Italians meet for mediation.
October 1, 1939 The Trieste Conference results in Italy and her allies being forced by Germany and the UK to accept token concessions (mostly some Dalmatian coast and islands for Italy, and strips of adjacent land to the borders of Hungary and Bulgaria, though overall Yugoslavia will be spared from disassembly.

[Glen]

Time is needed. :) Especially regarding Argentina. But sense I have the next three hours open I suppose working on this tl specillifically can be made the priority.

I'd really appreciate it, Oth. I kinda promised the wife I'd wrap things up, and I also want to devote more time to saving the r/w... ;)

[Othniel]

Here's the OTL portion I'm working with for Brazil, without being torn by Germany and the US we'll see it directed to other goals.

October 24, 1930 Coup d'état in Brazil replaces Washington Luis with populist Gen. Getúlio Vargas.
1930-1934 Vargas followed a path of social reformism to attempt to reconcile these radically diverging interests. Reflecting the influence of the tenentes, he even advocated a program of social welfare and reform with striking parallel to New Deal in the United States, prompting U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt to proudly refer to him as "one of two people who invented the New Deal."
1934 Vargas would develop a "a legal hybrid" between the regimes of Mussolini's Italy and Salazar's Portuguese Estado Novo, copied repressive fascist tactics, and conveyed their same rejection of liberal capitalism, but attained power baring few indications of his future quasi-fascist polices.
1934 armed with a new constitution drafted with extensive influence from European fascist models, Vargas began reining in even moderate trade unions and turning against the tenentes. His further concessions to the latifundios pushed him toward an alliance with the Integralists, Brazil's mobilized fascist movement.
July 16, 1934 The Vargas government claimed that the corporatist provisions of the constitution of 1934 would unite all classes in mutual interests—its stated purpose in Fascist Italy.
mid-1935 Brazilian politics had been drastically destabilized. Vargas' attention focused on the rise of two nationally based and highly ideological European-style movements, both committed to European-style mass-mobilization: one pro-Communist and the other pro-fascist—one linked to Moscow and the other to Rome.
November 10, 1937 Vargas, ruling by decree, then made a broadcast in which he stated his plans to assume dictatorial powers under the second new constitution of his regime derived from European fascist models, thereby curtailing presidential elections (his ultimate objections) and dissolving congress.
Under the Estado Novo, the state announced an ambitious Five-Year Plan whose goals included the expansion of heavy industry, the creation of new sources of hydroelectric power, and the expansion of the railway network, again, to develop Brazil's capital base. Empirical data can confirm that Vargas was advancing the bourgeois revolution, at least to an extent. By 1940 Brazil's capacity for electricity generation reached 1 million kilowatts, of which 60 percent was located in the São Paulo area, primarily due to the construction of hydroelectric power stations. Cement production increased from 87,000 tons in 1930 to 700,000 tons in 1940. Iron and steel output went from 90,000 tons in 1929 to 150,000 tons in 1939. The number of manufacturing enterprises more than doubled during the decade, reaching 50,000 by 1940. Factories in the São Paulo area employed 35 percent of the industrial labor force and generated 43 percent of the value of industrial production. Aside from the export of textiles, the manufacturing industries served the domestic market almost exclusively.
By 1941, Brazil had 44,100 plants employing 944,000 workers; the comparable figure for 1920 was 13,336 plants with about 300,000 workers. In 1942 the government established the Companhia Vale do Rio Doce to exploit the rich iron-ore deposits of Itabira; in 1944 it created a company for the production of materials needed by the chemical industry; and in 1946 the National Motor Company began the production of trucks. In the same year, Vargas saw the realization of one of his cherished dreams: The National Steel Company began production at the Volta Redonda plant between Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo. Aware of the need of modern industry for abundant sources of power, Vargas created the National Petroleum Company in 1938 to press the search for oil. By 1940 Brazil's, manufacturing output thus increased substantially, but coffee production declined . As a result, to further placate the forces of the old order, the government between 1934-37 and under the Estado Novo also invested considerably in the expansion of coffee production. Coffee was also the principal foreign exchange export earner.

[Othniel]

Reading why each faction supported the axis and allies in OTL Brazil has led me to believe that they'd find themselves brought as a strong supporter of Germany, the UK, and the US of this timeline. Since those are the main powers with a slight liberialising of his reigeme all though that doesn't happen unless forced to do so in order to gain favor. He doesn't have to do the things that the liberialising forced him to due in OTL, including amnesty for political prisoners, presidential elections, and the legalization of opposition parties.

I imagine Brazil continues inward as the fourties becomes a reality. They attract new people to the frontier, and lessen quotas therefore increasing migration. They have resources to tame and sell for the glory of their nation.

[Glen]

Reading why each faction supported the axis and allies in OTL Brazil has led me to believe that they'd find themselves brought as a strong supporter of Germany, the UK, and the US of this timeline. Since those are the main powers with a slight liberialising of his reigeme all though that doesn't happen unless forced to do so in order to gain favor. He doesn't have to do the things that the liberialising forced him to due in OTL, including amnesty for political prisoners, presidential elections, and the legalization of opposition parties.

I imagine Brazil continues inward as the fourties becomes a reality. They attract new people to the frontier, and lessen quotas therefore increasing migration. They have resources to tame and sell for the glory of their nation.

Sounds good.

[Glen]

Here's the OTL portion I'm working with for Brazil, without being torn by Germany and the US we'll see it directed to other goals.

October 24, 1930 Coup d'état in Brazil replaces Washington Luis with populist Gen. Getúlio Vargas.
1930-1934 Vargas followed a path of social reformism to attempt to reconcile these radically diverging interests. Reflecting the influence of the tenentes, he even advocated a program of social welfare and reform with striking parallel to New Deal in the United States, prompting U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt to proudly refer to him as "one of two people who invented the New Deal."
1934 Vargas would develop a "a legal hybrid" between the regimes of Mussolini's Italy and Salazar's Portuguese Estado Novo, copied repressive fascist tactics, and conveyed their same rejection of liberal capitalism, but attained power baring few indications of his future quasi-fascist polices.
1934 armed with a new constitution drafted with extensive influence from European fascist models, Vargas began reining in even moderate trade unions and turning against the tenentes. His further concessions to the latifundios pushed him toward an alliance with the Integralists, Brazil's mobilized fascist movement.
July 16, 1934 The Vargas government claimed that the corporatist provisions of the constitution of 1934 would unite all classes in mutual interests—its stated purpose in Fascist Italy.
mid-1935 Brazilian politics had been drastically destabilized. Vargas' attention focused on the rise of two nationally based and highly ideological European-style movements, both committed to European-style mass-mobilization: one pro-Communist and the other pro-fascist—one linked to Moscow and the other to Rome.
November 10, 1937 Vargas, ruling by decree, then made a broadcast in which he stated his plans to assume dictatorial powers under the second new constitution of his regime derived from European fascist models, thereby curtailing presidential elections (his ultimate objections) and dissolving congress.
Under the Estado Novo, the state announced an ambitious Five-Year Plan whose goals included the expansion of heavy industry, the creation of new sources of hydroelectric power, and the expansion of the railway network, again, to develop Brazil's capital base. Empirical data can confirm that Vargas was advancing the bourgeois revolution, at least to an extent. By 1940 Brazil's capacity for electricity generation reached 1 million kilowatts, of which 60 percent was located in the São Paulo area, primarily due to the construction of hydroelectric power stations. Cement production increased from 87,000 tons in 1930 to 700,000 tons in 1940. Iron and steel output went from 90,000 tons in 1929 to 150,000 tons in 1939. The number of manufacturing enterprises more than doubled during the decade, reaching 50,000 by 1940. Factories in the São Paulo area employed 35 percent of the industrial labor force and generated 43 percent of the value of industrial production. Aside from the export of textiles, the manufacturing industries served the domestic market almost exclusively.
By 1941, Brazil had 44,100 plants employing 944,000 workers; the comparable figure for 1920 was 13,336 plants with about 300,000 workers. In 1942 the government established the Companhia Vale do Rio Doce to exploit the rich iron-ore deposits of Itabira; in 1944 it created a company for the production of materials needed by the chemical industry; and in 1946 the National Motor Company began the production of trucks. In the same year, Vargas saw the realization of one of his cherished dreams: The National Steel Company began production at the Volta Redonda plant between Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo. Aware of the need of modern industry for abundant sources of power, Vargas created the National Petroleum Company in 1938 to press the search for oil. By 1940 Brazil's, manufacturing output thus increased substantially, but coffee production declined . As a result, to further placate the forces of the old order, the government between 1934-37 and under the Estado Novo also invested considerably in the expansion of coffee production. Coffee was also the principal foreign exchange export earner.

I am puttiing in the items with specific dates. For those you just gave general years/months, can you come up with some specific dates (like, April 1, 1940 By this date 50,000 yadda yadda had been produced, in accordance with the Five year plan of 1936...)

[Othniel]

I am puttiing in the items with specific dates. For those you just gave general years/months, can you come up with some specific dates (like, April 1, 1940 By this date 50,000 yadda yadda had been produced, in accordance with the Five year plan of 1936...)
I can try, but it will be hard to find exact dates. I have added the Chilien presidental elections and my general thesis on what is going to happen with Argentina but P99 isn't here to review it....

[Glen]

I can try, but it will be hard to find exact dates. I have added the Chilien presidental elections and my general thesis on what is going to happen with Argentina but P99 isn't here to review it....

If there is no exact dates, just make up some event that would be linked to what you want to say and plug it in.

[Glen]

Updated timeline for 1920s-30s with Oth's South American inclusions.

1920
March 13, 1920 Reichstag member Wolfgang Kapp makes an impassioned speech on the floor of the Reichstag protesting the end of pay to Freicorps members. He warns that many more actions like this could lead to a nationwide Putsch. (OTL Kapp was one of the leaders of the Kapp Putsch.)
March 14, 1920 Central Schleswig votes over 80% in favor of reunification with Germany.
March 20, 1920 A NSDAP sympathizer within the Reichswehr blows the whistle on up and comer within the party, Adolf Hitler, who is revealed to be a Reichswehr spy.
March 31, 1920 Alleged Reichswehr spy Adolf Hitler mustered out of the Reichswehr, and is reported to return to his native Austria.
April 10, 1920 Government stops paying Freikorps units.
May 9, 1920 Hilter joins the Heimwehr in Austria.
June 20, 1920 Elections for the Reichstag result in significant gains for the DVP and DNVP, minor loses for the SPD. Chancellor Gustav Bauer (SPD) forms a new grand coalition government and reorganizes the cabinet; making Gustav Stresemann (DVP) Foreign Minister.
August 11, 1920 National Disarmament Law takes effect; disbanded civil guards.
August 19, 1920 Second Silesia Uprising, French troops do little to control the situation.

1921
January 16, 1921 Aristide Briand becomes Prime Minister of France, begins shortly thereafter discussions with German Foreign Minister Gustav Stresemann regarding reparations.
March 21, 1921 Plebiscite held in Upper Silesia. They vote to remain part of Germany.
May 3, 1921 Polish forces under Wojciech Korfantry invade Upper Silesia.
May 4, 1921 Stresemann gets Briand’s France to enforce the rule of law in Upper Silesia, the Poles are required to leave.
July 1, 1921 Tentative agreement is reached for more favorable reparation payments by Germany, mostly due to the growing respect between Briand and Stresemann.
July 11, 1921 NSDAP under Anton Drexler votes to join Julius Streicher’s DSP.

1922
January 15, 1922 Stresemann secures loans to German government allowing Reichsmark to be fixed to a gold standard.
April 16, 1922 Treaty of Rapallo signed between Germany and the Soviet Union.
July 21, 1922 High inflation begins in Austria. The gold standard based German Reichsmark is little affected.
October 27, 1922 Benito Mussolini establishes his Fascist dictatorship in Italy.

1923
March 13, 1923 Adolf Hitler, inspired by the example of Benito Mussolini, starts a more political wing of the Heimwehr, centered on the Pan-Germanic faction of the paramilitary group.
June 3, 1923 After new elections for the Reichstag, Gustav Stresemann becomes Chancellor of a center-right coalition government. He retains the portfolio of Foreign Minister.

1924
February 28, 1924 Reichspresident Friedrich Ebert makes first visit of a German head of state to Great Britain since the war.
November 22, 1924 Strasser wing of DSP goes into rebellion over Streicher’s leadership.
December 1, 1924 Locarno Treaty signed.

1925
January 14, 1925 Germany enters the League of Nations.
September 10, 1925 Germany successfully lobbies for a referendum in the Memel region, and they vote in favor of reunification with Germany.
October 3, 1925 Committee announces that the Nobel Peace Prize will be awarded to Austen Chamberlain, Aristide Briand, and Gustav Stresemann for the Locarno treaty.

1926
February 14, 1926 Bamberg conference begins.
April 24, 1926 Germany and Soviet Union sign Berlin Treaty.
June 3, 1926 Friedrich Ebert narrowly wins re-election on the second ballot when the right rallies from a poor showing in the first round by drafting General Paul von Hindenburg as their candidate in the second round.

1927
June 3, 1927 General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck made Army Chief of Staff.
November 9, 1927 Chancellor Stresemann concludes Treaty of Munich with Czechoslovakia formally recognizing the border between Germany and Czechoslovakia in return for concessions to the German minority in the Sudetenland, including recognition of German as an official language of Czechoslovakia and a minimum number of spots in the Czech cabinet for ethnic Germans.

1928
February 3, 1928 The Simon Commission lands in Bombay. The first of many boycotts organized by the Indian National Congress occurs.
October 24, 1928 Chancellor Gustav Stresemann dies of a massive heart attack. Hermann Mueller forms grand coalition government and replaces him as Chancellor.

1929
December 10, 1929 The collapse of the stock exchange in New York City starts a world economic collapse.

1930
March 12 1930 Gandhi starts his march to protest the salt tax law.
June 30, 1930 Hermann Mueller leaves office when his own party (SPD) abandons the coalition. Center right coalition forms with Center party leader Heinrich Bruening as Chancellor.
July 4 1930 Lord Irwin, after meeting with members of the governing Labour Party in London, announces a round table will be created to discuss India’s constitutional progress to achieve Dominion status.
October 24, 1930 Coup d'état in Brazil replaces Washington Luis with populist Gen. Getúlio Vargas. Vargas embarks on a path of social reformism to attempt to reconcile radically diverging interests. Reflecting the influence of the tenentes, he even advocated a program of social welfare and reform with striking parallel to New Deal in the United States. Vargas develops a "a legal hybrid" between the regimes of Mussolini's Italy and Salazar's Portuguese Estado Novo, copying repressive fascist tactics, and conveying their same rejection of liberal capitalism, but attains power baring few indications of his future quasi-fascist polices. With a new constitution drafted with extensive influence from European fascist models, Vargas begins reining in even moderate trade unions and turning against the tenentes. His further concessions to the latifundios pushes him toward an alliance with the Integralists, Brazil's mobilized fascist movement.
November 12 1930 The first round table meetings on India show the differences between the Muslims and the Hindus. The Hindus wanted a strong central government while the Muslims wanted a loose confederation. Also the Sikhs want a Sikh nation in Punjab.

1931
January 12th 1931 The first round table meetings on India end. What emerges is an agreement to safe guard minorities in the constitution and the creation of a weak federal government to appease the Muslim delegates.
March 5 1931 Second round table meetings on India begin. Gandhi misses the meetings due to health reasons and the Congress representatives agree on the basis of a communal settlement for India. On the return to India of the delegates, Gandhi disavows their actions in London. This divides the Indian National Congress party. The Gandhi faction starts civil disobedience but the division of their party shows they are not the representatives of the whole Indian people.
June 1, 1931 Three million unemployed reported in Germany.
June 20, 1931 Herbert Hoover puts moratorium on reparations.
August 11, 1931 Austrian Kreditanstalt collapses.
September 13, 1931 The German bank crisis occurs.
September 20, 1931 Alfred Hugenberg made leader of DNVP by narrow margin.
October 11, 1931 Attempts to form a coalition between DNVP, Stahlhelm, DSP, and the Strasser splinter group fail. DNVP decides to stay in the government for the time being.

1932

March 5, 1932 Julius Streicher, leader of the DSP, high profile arrest on obsenity and perversion charges. The trial stretching through much of 1932 is a nadir for the far right.
April 20, 1932 Darkhorse candidate Carl Friedrich Goerdeler successfully challenges Alfred Hugenberg for leadership of the DNVP. Vows the DNVP will stay the course with the current government.
December 25, 1932 Constitutional rule is restored in Chile. Arturo Fortunato Alessandri Palma, a member of the Liberal Party, becomes president of Chile, serving until 1938.

1933
March 31, 1933 A conservative coup d’etat topples the socialist government of Uruguay. The socialist reform leaders are either assassinated or fled into exile, and a Conservative dictatorship begins. The Colorado party turns further to the left during the dictatorship years.
April 10, 1933 Friedrich Ebert loses badly in the second round of elections against center right consensus candidate and war hero Reichswehr Chief of Staff Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck. Former President Ebert in his concession speech calls for a peaceful transition, which by and large happens.
August 5 1933 The Government of India Act of 1933 announced and will be implemented by 1935.
August 7, 1933 DNVP leader Carl Friedrich Goerdeler becomes Chancellor of Germany.
October 23, 1933 Letter from Ludwig Erhard regarding economic reform so impresses Chancellor Goerdeler that he brings the man onto his staff as an advisor.

1934
February 12, 1934 Kummersdorf becomes the base for military rocket research.
March 21, 1934 Adolf Hitler’s Heimwehr faction begins a civil war after refusing to join Engelbert Dolfuss’s Fatherland Front (clerical faction of the Heimwehr joins the Fatherland Front, but is in the minority due to the recruitment efforts of the Charismatic Hitler). Several extremist volunteers from both Germany and Czechoslovakia swarm over the border to join the conflict in the early days. Socialists in Vienna take advantage of the chaos and take over the capitol, but can’t make progress very far from the city. With the onset of the Austrian Civil War, Albert Einstein leaves Austria, immigrating to Germany.
May 5, 1934 League of Nations declares a weapons embargo of all sides in the Austrian Civil War, which is promptly violated by both the Soviets and Italians. The Italians are secretly sending aid to both the Hitler and Dolfuss factions.
July 2, 1934 Former General Paul von Hindenburg dies, and Germany is thrown into a state of mourning that rivals that after the death of Chancellor Stresemann.
July 16, 1934 A new constitution is enacted in Brazil. The Vargas government claims that the corporatist provisions of the constitution of 1934 will unite all classes in mutual interests—its stated purpose (but not always actual) in Fascist Italy.
1935
January 13, 1935 Saarland votes over 90% to reunite with Germany.
May 20, 1935 Under pressure from Great Britain and with worsening economic problems domestically, France acquiesces to ‘limited’ German rearmament. Afterward, the rapid ‘development’ of the Reichswehr makes previous German covert rearming apparent, but the Great Powers turn a blind eye to this.
June 3, 1935 Brazilian politics has been drastically destabilized. Vargas' attention focuses on the rise of two nationally based and highly ideological European-style movements, both committed to European-style mass-mobilization: one pro-Communist and the other pro-fascist—one linked to Moscow and the other to Rome.
July 8, 1935 The Dominion of India is created. Subhas Bose is named Prime Minister with Mohammed Ali Jinnah as second in command. An Indian parliament is created but British institutions and borders are maintained for the time being. The Indian National Party reunifies but they admit their failure in getting the support of the Muslims, but the two rival parties made impossible the continued existence of this arrangement.
August 30, 1935 Token military force enters the Rhineland. The French government proclaims this as a great victory as the German force is not even enough to defend the Rhineland, much less threaten France. The German government point to this as the full restoration of German sovereignty and the return of Germany as a full member of the international family of nations.
October 3, 1935 Italian troops invade Abyssinia.
November 13, 1935 While the Austrian civil war has so far accomplished little except have several notable extremists of the age die gloriously in battle, Hitler makes a bold speech by radio from an undisclosed location, calling for the unification of Germans in Germany and Czechoslovakia with Austria. The speech is only heard in the local area of the broadcast.

1936
May 30, 1936 Italy annexes Abyssinia after a year long war which includes the use of mustard gas. By the end of June, after League condemnation of the annexation, Italy leaves the League of Nations.
July 10, 1936 The Spanish Civil War begins.
September 1, 1936 ‘Red’ Vienna falls to a Fatherland Front attack to regain the capital, but Hitler’s faction then attacks the exsanguinated forces of Dolfuss; the city will be a divided war-zone for the rest of the conflict.
August 16, 1936 Closing Ceremonies of the 1936 Berlin Olympics. The event is a showcase of the German Republic. President Lettow-Vorbeck hosted a number of his former Askari in Berlin, allowed by London to travel from Tanzania for the event. Later, a photo in Time magazine of the German President congratulating Jesse Owens with the Askari at his side leads the KKK in the American South to denounce the German leader.
September 20, 1936 Germany and the West, fed up with the chaos in Austria and now civil war in Spain, agree to allow German intervention in Austria. With the knock-out of the Socialists from the war, French Prime Minister Leon Blum sees little reason to hinder a Republican Germany from intervening, as the success of either of the remaining two factions would be undesirable. German troops stream over the border and overall are greeted as saviors by the war weary Austrians.
October 21, 1936 Hitler, rather than surrendering, commits suicide in his hideout in the mountains. Nearly all the Dolfuss and Hitler faction forces have surrendered to the rapidly advancing Germans, often without a fight. The few die-hard units are quickly dispatched by the Reichswehr. Dolfuss retires from politicis.
December 9, 1936 After a few months of diplomacy, Italy acquiesces to German occupation and a vote on Anschluss after the German government agrees to recognize the possession of the South Tyrol by Italy.

1937
February 14, 1937 The Austrians hold a referendum overwhelmingly supporting unification with Germany. Though the Treaty of Saint Germaine forbade Austria from political or economic union with Germany, Germany points out that they were not party to that agreement, and that the Austrian government had essentially ceased to exist. World sentiment seems to favor the unification.
March 15, 1937 Stalin, concerned about the close ties that developed between Soviet military officers and the Germans during the years of cooperation in the 1920s, launches a purge of the Red Army that will last the year, essentially crippling the Red Army for the next several years.
March 9, 1937 Completion of move of military rocket research to Peenemünde (on the recommendation of Werner von Braun). Kummersdorf converted over to military applications of atomic research, involving not only several German physicists, but also many Hungarian scientists who have immigrated to Germany to escape the repressive regime in Hungary.
April 12, 1937 Italy and Hungary form a mutual defense pact, called the Rome-Budapest Axis by Mussolini.
July 24, 1937 Germany proposes in the League of Nations a referendum on Danzig and the Polish Corridor. Poland at first is against the idea.
August 20, 1937 Poland, thinking they could win a referendum that includes both the Kassubian populated Polish corridor and the German Danzig, and noting that a significant portion of the Reichswehr is still in Austria, gamble and announce their willingness for the vote to happen, but that it must occur by mid September. Germany agrees.
September 10, 1937 Less than a week before the Polish Corridor referendum, the Reichstag approves sweeping minority rights legislation. This will be the keystone to a wave of radio broadcast German campaign to win over Kashubians to the German Republic. Emphasis is also placed in the broadcasts on Sorbs, another Slavic group living within the Republic who have done well, as well as making distinction between the Kashubians and the Poles.
September 15, 1937 The Polish Corridor referendum, though fraught with fraud on both sides, shows a majority in favor of unification with the German Republic. Very high turnout in Danzig is one factor; another is the substantial minority of Kashubian voters who also vote for unification with Germany. While the German minority legislation and 11th hour campaign are believed to have been important factors, most historians believe the deciding factors were actually the stability in recent years of the German government and their substantially better economic performance during the Great Depression than most nations in Europe and indeed the world.
September 16, 1937 When the result of the referendum starts to become clear, Poland repudiates it as rigged and begins to move troops into the region as a ‘stabilizing measure’. However, within hours of the Polish actions, heavy German troop movement is reported all along the border with Germany, many being identified as troops believed to be in Austria, and even the Czechs appear to be mobilizing. Fearing a general invasion is about to occur, Marshal Edward Rydz-Śmigły begins to redeploy troops to hold off a large scale invasion and protect the capitol and key industrial centers.
September 17, 1937 In the predawn hours the Germans strike as expected in the Polish Corridor, but in an unexpected manner. Paratroops land throughout the narrow corridor, within the lines of the Polish forces in the region. The surprise move throws the Polish forces there into disarray, which then is taken advantage of by German troops moving in from Germany proper and East Germany. The German Chancellor announces that the intention of the Germans is to only enforce the will of the people in the recent referendum. Rydz-Śmigły refuses offers of assistance from the Soviets.
September 25, 1937 The leaders of France and Great Britain meet with the Germans in Hamburg to discuss the Polish Crisis. By this time, Polish troops have been expelled from the narrow Polish Corridor, allowing the formation of a continuous defensive line between now linked East Prussia and the rest of Germany. Despite Marshal Rydz-Śmigły’s continued belief that the Germans will launch a full out assault, the Germans and Czechs have taken up defensive positions only and no further incursions into Poland have occurred. The entire threatened invasion was an enormous bluff playing on Polish fears which tied down the bulk of their battle ready troops. After personal assurances by President Lettow-Vorbeck himself, the British and French agree to support the annexation of the Polish Corridor to Germany in return for Germany finally accepting the rest of their Eastern border with Poland and allowing liberal access through to the Baltic for Polish businesses. With no support from the West, and fear of the Soviets, the Poles feel no choice but to tacitly accept what they refer to as ‘the selling out of Poland’.
October 1, 1937 Prime Minister Joseph Chamberlain returns in triumph to London announcing that they shall have ‘peace in our time’ and that ‘President Lettow-Vorbeck is an honorable man who we may trust to keep his word, both for himself and his nation’.
November 10, 1937 Vargas, ruling by decree, makes a broadcast to the people of Brazil in which he states his plans to assume dictatorial powers under the second new constitution of his regime derived from European fascist models, thereby curtailing presidential elections (his ultimate objections) and dissolving congress.
November 17, 1937 Under the Estado Novo, the Brazilian state announces an ambitious Five-Year Plan whose goals included the expansion of heavy industry, the creation of new sources of hydroelectric power, and the expansion of the railway network to develop Brazil's capital base. Empirical data will confirm that Vargas is advancing the bourgeois revolution, at least to an extent.


1938
May 1, 1938 On a date possibly chosen for irony, then nations of Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Germany, and Czechoslovakia announce a Northern European Alliance to defend against Communism, the Soviets particularly, and other threats to their nations. Quietly, Great Britain has given assurances of support for the group as well.
July 14, 1938 First jet airplane flight occurs at Heinkel Field.
September 5, 1938 Aware of the need of modern industry for abundant sources of power, Brazilian leader Vargas creates the National Petroleum Company to search for oil.
December 25, 1938 Pedro Aguirre Cerda of the Popular Front is elected president of Chile. He implements education reforms, but dies in 1941 while in office.

1939
January 13, 1939 Nuclear Fission discovered by Otto Hahn, Lise Meitner and coworkers at the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Institute for Chemistry in Berlin.
February 9, 1939 Bulgaria joins the Axis ‘Pact of Steel’ with Italy and Hungary.
April 17, 1939 Italy attacks Albania, taking control of the small nation in the name of King Victor Emmanuel III.
June 23, 1939 The Nationalists have taken Madrid, and Franco declares victory, becoming the Fascist dictator of Spain.
November 4, 1939 Start of the Yugoslavian Crisis. Italy, Hungary, and Bulgaria invade Yugoslavia, threatening to completely partition the country. Within days Yugoslavia stands on the brink of collapse. German forces in German Austria mobilize all along the border, and the British demand that the Italians meet for mediation.
October 1, 1939 The Trieste Conference results in Italy and her allies being forced by Germany and the UK to accept token concessions (mostly some Dalmatian coast and islands for Italy, and strips of adjacent land to the borders of Hungary and Bulgaria, though overall Yugoslavia will be spared from disassembly).

[Glen]

Some possible additions for the 1940s. Probably all the South American stuff we just add, except we may need to alter the Mussolini reference in 1943. I have here the proposed Greek incident, but we need to figure out how the Axis aggression and response will play out in the 1940s for real. Greek roadbloak or Tunisia war, or both?

January 14, 1940 Brazil's manufacturing output has increased substantially over the decade, but coffee production has declined. As a result, to further placate the forces of the old order, the government between 1934-37 and under the Estado Novo also has invested considerably in the expansion of coffee production. Coffee is also the principal foreign exchange export earner.

October 24, 1940 Much progress has been made in Brazil since Vargas came to power ten years ago. Cement production increases to 700,000 tons from 87,000 tons in October 24, 1930. Brazil's capacity for electricity generation reachs 1 million kilowatts, of which 60 percent was located in the São Paulo area, primarily due to the construction of hydroelectric power stations. Iron and steel output went up to 150,000 tons in 1939-40. The number of manufacturing enterprises more than double during the decade leading up to this date, reaching 50,000. Factories in the São Paulo area employ 35 percent of the industrial labor force and generate 43 percent of the value of industrial production. Aside from the export of textiles, the manufacturing industries serve the domestic market almost exclusively. Brazil has 44,100 plants employing 944,000 workers; the comparable figure for December 31, 1920 was 13,336 plants with about 300,000 workers.

August 16th 1941- Peruvian forces capture Cuenca after heavy fighting. Both sides are exhausted and both sides agree a cease-fire. But secret pledges by the Colombian government that they will join the conflict helps the Ecuadorians to break the cease fire on September 10th 1941 after the arrival of Colombian “volunteers” and weapons.

September 26th 1941: Ecuadorian counter offensive recaptures Cuenca. Peru prepares for a final offensive to try to end the conflict.

October 10th 1941: Coastal offensive started by Peru.

December 7th 1941: Guayaquil falls to Peruvian army. Peru sends terms of surrender to Ecuador. Ecuador after consideration and further promises by Colombia refuses. A December ceasefire agreed by both sides, in reality both sides are exhausted.

February 8th 1942: Ecuadorian counter offensive starts in attempt to recapture Guayaquil, casualties mount especially between Colombian volunteers. The offensive is called off on March 2nd 1942 after failing in their objectives.

February 9th 1942: Peruvian counter offensive starts in an attempt to recapture Cuenca. With majority of enemy forces facing Guayaquil the city falls by February 21st 1942.

February 15th 1942: President Baldomir dissolves the General Assembly in Montevideo and asks the opposition parties to join in defeating the military. Uruguay Civil War starts. Colorado Party changes name to Uruguayan Communist Party.

September 14th 1942: Civil War ends. Communist Party wins and declares the People’s Republic of Uruguay. While neutral, this nation turns into a sanctuary for communist sympathizers from Argentina and neighboring countries. Inmediatly recognized by the Soviet Union.

March 11th 1942: Ecuador accepts terms of Peru. Peru gains all disputed territory plus El Oro province.

April 12th 1942: Liberal leader Jorge Eliezer Gaitan asks for the resignation of the current Colombian government. He blamed them for the thousands of casualties incurred during the just ended conflict and the economic chaos the nation was suffering. The lower classes, from were the majority of the casualties came from and the ones suffering more of the slow recovery from the Depression, flock to him especially in the cities.

May 20th 1942: Eliezer Gaitan assassinated while giving speech in Bogota. Start of the Colombian Civil War. Liberal sympathizers take to the streets to fight government forces.

May 29th 1942: Liberal forces capture Bogota. Alfonso Lopez Pumarejo declared President by the Liberals. Incumbent President Eduardo Santos flees to Cartagena and asks for international recognition of his cabinet as the true government of Colombia.

June 3, 1942 The Brazilian government establishes the Companhia Vale do Rio Doce to exploit the rich iron-ore deposits of Itabira

May 13, 1943 The military ousts Argentina's constitutional government.

August 5, 1943 Vargas announces for Brazil a twelve year plan for growth into the interior. To distance himself from the newly defeated Mussolini he begins to go back to some of his left-centre ideologies. The opening of Southern Brazil for homesteading, a more open stance on immigration, and land reforms are key points to his plan. Vargas opens the frontier by opening forts and oil towns around the west and south.


October 28th 1943: Axis powers launch an surprise invasion of Greece. Bulgaria hit a wall from the very beginning but Italy made some minimal gains before also being stopped.

November 21st 1943, the Greeks, with secret shipment of weapons from the British coming from Egypt, launched an counter offensive that recaptures most of the lost territory.

November 25, 1942 Juan Antonio Ríos Morales, a member of the Radical Party, is elected president of Chile.

December 1st 1943: Great Britain and the Little Entente send a demarche to the Axis powers to withdraw to their borders or a state of war will exist between them. The Axis received 72 hours to comply. Europe was on the brink of a major war.

December 2nd 1943: Armed forces of the Little Entente began to mobilize. Axis nations’ leaders met on an emergency meeting in Rome.

December 3rd 1943: Axis began withdrawing from Greece. German President Lettow-Vorbeck announces this as a victory for the democracies of Europe. He also stated that the Balkans are not a playfield that could be trampled on by the fascists nations and invited both Turkey and Greece to join their European Alliance.

February 7th 1944: Turkey asks for membership of the Little Entente. With borders with both communists and fascists they considered this their best course of action.

February 21st 1944: Greece asks for membership to the Little Entente. With their pre-Greek crisis neutrality stance shot to bits by the actions of the Axis they decided like the Turkish government that their best course of action was to join the Little Entente.

June 5, 1944 Brazil creates a company for the production of materials needed by the chemical industry.

January 15, 1946 Conservative Eduardo Cruz-Coke Lassabe is elected president of Chile.

February 20, 1946 Perón is victorious in Argentine elections. He aggressively pursues policies aimed at giving an economic and political voice to the working class and greatly expanding the number of unionized workers.


June 3, 1946 the National Motor Company begins the production of trucks.

August 14, 1946 Dictator Vargas of Brazil sees the realization of one of his cherished dreams; The National Steel Company begins production at the Volta Redonda plant between Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo.

[Glen]

The timeline as it currently stands from the 1940s on. Presumably it will be altered shortly and reference to Mussolini still being in power til his death in 1958 removed.

See the preceding post for some possible inclusions to the 1940s.

1940
May 12, 1940 Presidential and Reichstag elections held. President Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck in his second election becomes the first President of the Republic to win a majority on the first ballot. With the addition of Catholic Austria to the Republic, the Center party and its allied minor parties are winners as well, and the new Center Party leader Konrad Adenauer becomes Chancellor of Germany (though still in a center-right coalition government).
September 1, 1940 Hungary launches a war against Romania over Transylvania. Their allies the Bulgarians simultaneously attack into Dobruja.
September 24, 1940 The Romanians were doing well against the Italian supported Hungarians and Bulgarians when the Soviets launch a surprise action into Bessarabia. Shortly thereafter, the Romanians are forced to cede Bessarabia to the Soviets in order to save their nation from them and return their attentions to the Hungarians and Bulgarians.
November 5, 1940 Arthur Vandenberg elected President of the United States of America.

1941
February 19, 1941 Communist activist Ho Chi Minh returns to Vietnam after 30 years in exile and organizes a nationalist organization named the Viet Minh.
June 1, 1941- As relations with Japan remain strained, and Europe seems more risky, Stalin begins secret military build up on the Manchurian-Soviet and the Mongolian-Manchurian border, with Sergei Zhukov in command.
July 30, 1941- By the end of the month 30 Russian divisions are in the Far East, the Soviets have an advantage 2:1 in men, 4:1 in tanks and vehicles and 3:1 in aircrafts.
August 9th 1941- The Second Russo-Japanese war starts. The Soviets launch a two front attack with the city of Harbin as their first goal.
August 12, 1941 At the Battle of Vladivostsk, the Soviet Far East Fleet’s attempt to escape is foiled and the majority of the fleet is destroyed.
August 18, 1941 The Sakalin campaign launched by the Japanese.
November 3, 1941 The Sakalin campaign ends with a combined army-marine Japanese effort successfully conquering the northern half of the island.
November 16, 1941 Due to the terrain and stubborn Japanese resistance it is not until the middle of November that Soviets reach Harbin. The siege of Harbin begins.
November 21, 1941 Czechoslovakia formally changes its name to the Central European Republic.
December 20, 1941 The Hungarians and Bulgarians give up their attempts at Romania and withdraw to the 1940 borders.
December 24, 1941 An informal ceasefire due to weather conditions has set in and both sides consolidate their positions.

1942
February 24, 1942 The ceasefire comes to an end when the Japanese begin their effort to relieve Harbin.
March 9, 1942 The Harbin relief effort collapses for the Japanese. Japanese inflict severe losses upon the Soviets in this attack but fail in their objective.
March 17, 1942 Harbin falls to the Soviets. A Japanese offer of peace in exchange for accepting Soviet border claims in Manchuria is rejected.
April 1, 1942 The Deep Thrust; Soviet forces, finally in better terrain than the northern part of Manchuria launch a combined arms operation to destroy the Japanese presence in Manchuria.
April 23, 1942 India is divided into a loose confederation of Hindu majority provinces, Muslim majority ones, and the Sikh Azaz Punjab. Each province is governed with a high degree of autonomy except for foreign affairs, communications, defense, and finances needed for nationwide affairs. The central government is located in Delhi. There was some opposition by all sides to this final arrangement but after some violence it was accepted; it was this or the dismembering of India.
May 1, 1942 Gandhi assassinated by a disgruntled INC fanatic.
May 15 1942 Ceasefire agreement between Japan and Nationalist Chinese allows Japan to move more forces to face the Soviets.
June 6, 1942 The largest air battle ever seen is fought on this day. Both sides claim victory, but it appears to be a narrow victory for the Soviets through the sheer number of Soviet planes, not by technical or equipment advantages of which they have none; the Japanese machines are superior and Japanese pilots are about even in quality.
June 18 1942 Two Soviet tank divisions fight an ad-hoc formation equivalent to a reinforced armored brigade near Mukden. The Soviets have mostly T-26s, but with a considerable number of T-34s as well; the Japanese have Type 95 tanks. After the Soviet victory, the Japanese recognize the failure of their tank designs and begin searching abroad for new models.
July 12, 1942 The Japanese have been expelled from most of Manchuria and forced to a defensive line on the Yalu River.
July 28, 1942 Nationalist China refuses to let Japanese forces in China attack north, threatening to end the ceasefire agreement if the Japanese attack the Soviets from Chinese soil.
August 10, 1942 After a lull of one month to recover, the Soviets begin their offensive into Korea.
October 7, 1942 The Japanese evacuation of the Liounyan Peninsula culminates with the destruction of the Port Arthur facilities.
December 31, 1942 The Japanese front is a line anchored by Wonsan and running from there west. Japanese offers of peace (Manchuria to the Soviets, Korea to the Japanese) are considered by Stalin, but rejected.

1943
March 23, 1943 The first jet fighter is developed by RLM using engine design of Anselm Franz.
April 6, 1943 The Japanese launch their counter-offensive. The slow grinding Soviet offensive has been continual throughout the year, but with the arrival of Japanese forces from China and the Japanese shorter supply lines the Soviet casualties are finally beginning to be felt. The Soviet push into Korea has bogged down. With Japan still controlling the seas, it has become a slow, grinding fight all the way down the peninsula, as the Soviets have to take on every fortified pass. The mountainous terrain also does much to negate the Soviet armor advantage. The Japanese actually gain ground and recapture Seoul.
June 18 1943 After mediation by the United States, the Second Russo-Japanese War ends when Stalin accepts the last Japanese offer of borders drawn based on the front lines. Manchuria will become the People’s Republic of Manchuria under Mao Tse Tong, but with Soviet troops stationed there guaranteeing they remain within the Soviet sphere. North Korea too becomes a Communist satellite of the USSR. Japan, bled dry by the war, also formalizes the ceasefire with Nationalist China.
September 20, 1943 In the wake of the Japanese performance in the Second Russo-Japaneses war, the Emperor dismisses the militarists and installs more democratically minded ministers.

1944
January 7, 1944 The A-4 rocket has its first successful launch at Peenemünde.
March 12, 1944 November 7, 1944 President Vandenberg wins re-election in the USA.

1945
September 21, 1945 End of the severe famine due to drought near Hanoi and surrounding areas kills close to one million people but more are saved by a League of Nations effort to help the people in the area. However, Ho Chi Minh uses this drought to recruit members for his movement.
December 23, 1945 Ho Chi Minh launches their first large-scale attack against the French. By now the Viet Minh are 30,000 strong and the numbers continue to grow.

1947
February 4, 1947 President Lettow-Vorbeck announces that he will not seek re-election to the Presidency.
April 20, 1947 The first successful test detonation of an atomic bomb performed by Germany.
June 20, 1947 In the second dual Presidential and Reichstag elections, the SPD candidate, senior statesman Otto Braun wins the presidency on the second ballot. SPD leader Erich Ollenhauer becomes Chancellor of a center-left coalition government. He and UK Labour Government Prime Minister Clement Attlee would come to work closely together over the years.

1948
March 29, 1948 Werner von Braun becomes head of the new civilian German Space Agency he has lobbied for years to have formed.

1949
August 14, 1949 The last British forces leave India except for the ones in the Calcutta naval station, the airbase near Bombay, and sundry other bases necessary for the defense of the Commonwealth.
October 2, 1949 The Reichstag passes an amendment to have the Presidential election go to a run-off if there is no majority winner in the first round.
November 1, 1949 The guerilla war in Vietnam continues with no end in sight. By now the Viet Minh is close to 45,000 men strong.
1951
May 1, 1951 The Soviet Union test detonates its first atomic bomb, created mostly from plans stolen from Germany through espionage.

1957
March 3, 1957 The German A-11 rocket launches the first satellite into orbit. This will be the last great achievement of an independent German Space Program, as spending priorities on domestic programs will not allow further unilateral funding for the very expensive Space program. The German government begins to seek partners for Space exploration.

1958
July 4, 1958 The Republic of Germany, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America pool their resources to launch a joint space initiative, the North Atlantic Space Agency. The Central European Republic and other allied nations soon join the group as junior partners.

1961
October 8, 1961 The Soviet Union shocks the world by sending the first man into orbit. Funding of the North Atlantic Space Agency will increase significantly as the member nations dedicate themselves to putting a base on the moon by 1980.

1969
June 2, 1969 NASA sends the first men to the moon (symbolically, a German, American, and Briton).
August 11, 1969 Germans celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of the Weimar Constitution (date of its announcement).

1979
August 20, 1979 The NASA moon base, a capsule buried under the lunar soil, goes into operation, a year ahead of the deadline set in 1961.

2005
August 11, 2005 The 86th Anniversary of the announcement of the Weimar Constitution of the Republic of Germany.

[Glen]

Oh, and just to mention it, folks. I think I will have the timeline go all the way to 2019, ending with the 100th anniversary of the announcement of the Weimar Constitution.

Maybe not the 1000 year Reich yet, but certainly a better longevity than Hitler's Third Reich...

[Othniel]

Still working on Paraguay and Bolivia.

[perdedor99]

Damn! I worked on the Far East from 1946 to1955 and I can't post because the damn disk will not respond. At least I saved the info at work but damn, I'm mad.

I got the Chinese Civil war(victory for Chiang by 1949)
The Huk rebellion on the Philippines(a league of nations{Japan is a brand new member of the league} and US victory by the beginning of the 1950's)
The end of the first phase of the Indochina war(France and China defeat gave the Viet Minh a bloody nose. de Gaulle French commander in Indochina.)
The Sino-Soviet War of 1952-53. (Soviets got the bomb and dare the world to do something about their attack to China)
The seeds of rebellion in Indonesia
The Sino-Japanese trade agreement of 1955 ends the period.

I'm really mad.

[Othniel]

Is the SA one exceptable?

I may pull Vargas's Brazil from this TL for a future ME...

[Glen]

Is the SA one exceptable?

I may pull Vargas's Brazil from this TL for a future ME...

So far it seems so.

[Glen]

Damn! I worked on the Far East from 1946 to1955 and I can't post because the damn disk will not respond. At least I saved the info at work but damn, I'm mad.

Don't worry, we will hold off finalizing the 1940s until you can retrieve it.


I got the Chinese Civil war(victory for Chiang by 1949)

I assume this is China sans Manchuria.


The Huk rebellion on the Philippines(a league of nations{Japan is a brand new member of the league} and US victory by the beginning of the 1950's)

Sounds good.


The end of the first phase of the Indochina war(France and China defeat gave the Viet Minh a bloody nose. de Gaulle French commander in Indochina.)

Interesting, though I'm also thinking of making de Gaulle a hero of the Tunisia war, so we can get him elected for luakel... ;)


The Sino-Soviet War of 1952-53. (Soviets got the bomb and dare the world to do something about their attack to China)


At first encounter, I'm not certain about the sound of this. Let me hear your proposal, though.


The seeds of rebellion in Indonesia

Sure.

The Sino-Japanese trade agreement of 1955 ends the period.
This also sounds good.

I'm really mad.

I can commiserate.

[perdedor99]

I assume this is China sans Manchuria.

Correct

Also the Huk War sees the raising of the flag in Mt Abak that makes the front page of Times Magazine.



Interesting, though I'm also thinking of making de Gaulle a hero of the Tunisia war, so we can get him elected for luakel... ;)

Oh, I quote him as a hero of the French-Italian war and retiring from the army in 1954 to go into politics.



At first encounter, I'm not certain about the sound of this. Let me hear your proposal, though.

Is a limited war in the Sinking-Soviet Border. It lasted a year and Sinking ended been claimed by the Soviets. It just I can't imagine Stalin doing anything while his puppets are getting their butts handed to them plus he just got the bomb and he's gambling that germany, the other atomic power, will go to war for a desert in the middle of Central Asia. Also needed a rationale to make Chiang deal with the Japanese.

[Wendell]

Are my choices for President acceptable?

[Glen]

First off, let me just thank you for your time in reading this timeline and critiquing it.

--- In SHWI-ISOT@yahoogroups.com, "Jussi Jalonen" <jussi.jalonen@f...> wrote:
>
> Let's just say that it needs some work on the details. Personally, I
> find the idea of a surviving Weimar Republic entirely plausible in
> itself,

Neither do I. You'd be surprised perhaps how many people thought that the Weimar Republic surviving was almost ASB at first. However, from the research I've done on the interwar period for this project, I've come to respect just how well the Weimar Republic did manage to do in those difficult times. There were plenty of nations in Europe that went anti-democratic much earlier than Germany, many in the 1920s. And by the early 1930s, almost all of them were crumbling. Germany was one of the last nations east of the Rhine, not the first, to fall to anti-democratic forces. But I digress.

> but there's always the question of how to get there in a
> believable, plausible manner. _How_ does it survive? _What_ role
> does it play in Europe? Und so weiter.

True, true.

> For example, there's the idea of having the Reichsmark succesfully
> fixed to a gold standard early on, presumably even on pre-war gold
> parity. While this could safeguard Germany against the post-war
> hyperflation, the resulting commitment and belief in gold is likely
> to lead to very counterproductive consequences by the time of the
> Great Depression. These would need to be adressed better.

From what I've read of the OTL events, the Retentenmark was first a stopgap currency backed by the value of land and businesses throughout Germany, almost like a giant national morgage, and then Stresemann secured loans that allowed them to peg it to a gold standard. So in OTL, the German currency was already pegged to the Gold Standard when the Great Depression hit. This was a problem for most nations OTL. I decided it was better to have the Reichsmark stabilize earlier (and thus preserve more savings among Germans) than to try something fancy and different from OTL. If you have a better solution to the early financial problems of the German Republic that could plausibly happen within the context of the timeline (which at that point was not very different from OTL), I'd love to hear it.

> Then there's the context of international politics. By 1925, the
> Weimar Republic manages to raise the question of Memel/Klaipeda yet
> again, and the issue is succesfully subjected to another
> plebiscite.

Another plebliscite? No, in this timeline there was only one, and it went to Germany. My understanding (sketchy to say the least as it is mostly from reading up on the issue on the web) was that the Lithuanians occupied the area in 1923 while France (who were responsible for the area) was distracted by the Ruhr occupation. Here, there is no Ruhr occupation by France, and the presumption is made (plausibly I think if not absolute) that the Lithuanians do not choose this time to take the area, and it instead goes in plebliscite to Germany.

> All fine and good, but why would the hyper-nationalistic Lithuanian
> government, steadily influenced by increasing fascist-style
> domestic movements, agree to this proposal?

Klapeda/Memel was a free zone at the time, under League auspices I believe. I'm not certain that the Lithuanians would have much to say. Plus having lost to the Poles on the Central Lithuania issue recently, I'm not so certain they'd be feeling 'lucky' when it came to military action.

> An agreement between Stresemann and Masaryk, two democratic
> politicians who had much in common, is by no means implausible.

In fact, it is almost OTL, as Stresemann pursued a policy of good relations with Czechoslovakia during his time as Foreign Minister, and the German Republic did in the 1920s (or so I read) encouraged the Sudeten Germans to work with the Czechs.

> But why would Stresemann, whose main concern was the German
> minority in Poland, be all that interested in Sudetenland?

Actually, he's not. The agreement with the Czechs is an attempt to remove a possible hot spot on the border so as to be free to pursue other issues, like you mention in Poland. He doesn't want the Sudetenland, but he needs something to quiet down Pan-Germanist sentiment, both in his country and in the Sudetenland. By getting the Czechoslovakians to agree to a higher standing of the German language and German politicians, he can help diffuse some of that.

> As a minor note, the passing mention of the Ku Klux Klan intrigues
> me somewhat. As I understand it, the Klan had experienced its
> heyday in the '20s and had consumed its energy by the '30s.

You are right. However, it wasn't through yet at the time.

> By the time of the Depression, it wasn't much of a factor in the
> American South anymore - with the notable exception of Florida.

It was becoming a smaller group, but still had quite a lot of influence (mostly through fear) in the American South. I don't know that it was particularly more in Florida than say, Mississippi or Alabama or Georgia, for example.

> The Austrian events are certainly an original idea, and they would
> seem to have more or less enough plausibility in them.

Thank you. While not necessarily the most probable sequence of events, I do think they are a real possibility, and in fact a good way for this timeline to go. Austria was a mess, and would remain a destabilizing influence on German politics if something weren't done about them. Also the Anschluss helps increase the prestige of the German Republic in the eyes of the German people.

> Having the Polish government risk a "gamble" and accept the German
> proposal for a new referendum on Danzig and the Polish Corridor is
> implausible. Historically, the _Sanacja_ regime was dead set
> against any interference on its internal affairs, and seriously
> considered a preventive war against Germany all through the '30s.
> Encroachments by the Weimar Germany would have provoked just as
> strong a reaction as those made by the Third Reich in our timeline.
> The Poles would not, and could not have accepted any referendum in
> Danzig, which would have only played in the hands of Germany; least
> of all would they have accepted a referendum on the lands which
> were an integral part of their own national territory.

I admit, this is one of the biggest stretches in the entire timeline. My premise is that the Poles react at first blush much as you suggest. However, someone comes up with the bright idea that if it really were both the Corridor AND Danzig together (as a package deal, majority vote wins all), that they would have enough votes to take the whole region outright. Also, they believe the Germans are out of position in Austria and not in a position to do much if things go badly. So in a way they are gambling that they win and can take the whole region outright, but in a way they think that it is a win-win situation, and that if the vote doesn't go their way they can just repudiate it and hold on militarily long enough to force the great powers to recognize the status quo.

I have the Germans though doing a better job with voter turnout, and also a masterful pr job on the Kashubians - not to mention that being part of a democratic, economically recovering Germany is looking a bit better to some than being in an authoritarian, floundering Poland.

As for the actual military action, in part the Poles are wrong in that the Germans can move troops faster than they think, but in part they are right, because they don't have enough in place to launch a full scale invasion. However, they have no intention to, instead using what they have to make it look like they are. A giant bluff, but one the Poles are predisposed to believe.

So, is it utterly implausible, or barely plausible, and/or is there something you would suggest to make it more plausible or another way to get a similar result that would be more plausible?

> "Prime Minister Joseph Chamberlain" is presumably just a typo. No
> worries.

Ouch, it is. It should be Neville.

> The German-organized "Little Entente" of 1938 does not work, unless
> you define the context better. The inter-war Finland was mostly
> committed to the Scandinavian connection and hoped to establish
> itself as a Nordic country; intimate cooperation with Central
> European nations didn't fit in this scenario. The pre-war Lithuania
> was favourably disposed towards the USSR and thus unlikely to join
> any anti-Soviet military alliance, as strange as it may sound from
> the perspective of today. And so on.

The 'little entente' is actually more Baltic in character than Central European, at first. I assumed that Finland would be worried about the Soviet Union at this time, is that right?

From my online reading, it would appear that around this time OTL, the Baltic countries (Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania) were heavily involved economically with both the UK and Germany. In OTL, that meant they had to balance between the two sides. Here, the UK and Germany have grown closer together, and are not antagonistic, which made me think that a Baltic alliance (and Germany here still has a lot of real estate along the Baltic), would be likely given that influence.

Also, while the spoken commitment of the group is to oppose Communism and the Soviets, for the Lithuanians there is an additional attraction in that with Germany and Czechoslovakia involved, they would have a lot of allies should the war heat up again against Poland (in this timeline, the Lithuanians thus avoid having to accept the 'ultimatum' on accepting the Polish annexation of Central Lithuania and Vilnius).

> And why would the Weimar Germany be worried of the USSR and
> establish military alliances against their chosen partner in the
> post-war years?

Because, while the German Republic has remained a democracy, there is a Center-Right coalition in power in the Reichstag and a staunch anti-communist in the Presidency, plus the current government no longer needs the USSR since they've been granted open rearmament. All reasons for relations between the two to turn in a very different direction.

> The idea of Lettow-Vorbeck rising to prominence has, of course,
> been done before; personally, I have my doubts that his personality > could have carried as far as to the position of the Head of State, > even though his involvement in politics is likely.

I know it has, and at first I wasn't going to involve him, but he has many qualities that make him useful for the timeline, and some plausible reasons why this could happen this way.

First, L-V was involved in politics in OTL, even serving in the Reichstag for a few years.

Here, his star will rise a little more because not only was he a war hero, but has a longer, more distinguished career in the Reichswehr than OTL.

And he is not even a candidate in the first round of the elections, instead he is a compromise candidate ala Hindenburg OTL. He'd be able to garner enough support to win the second round votes.

And basically, for the Republic to survive the turbulent thirties, I needed someone with honor, who could appeal to the right, but be both anti-fascist and anti-communist, which L-V was. And in OTL he was thought well of in the UK, strangely enough, which is a real bonus here.

The most probable candidate, no. A plausible one with a lot of qualities that would be useful for the survival of the German Republic, yes I believe.

> The fascination with rockets, space programs, lunar bases and other
> sci-fi stuff also seems to be very common to all 20th century
> timelines.

The fascination with rockets was a real German phenomenon in OTL that predated the Nazis. With the Republic surviving, and Germany remaining intact, there is little reason to believe that Germany wouldn't have pursued space, especially with von Braun pushing it. As it is, I have bugetary concerns pushing the Germans into a multinational approach. The lunar base is literally a tin can buried in the lunar ground. This is what has come of von Braun's grand visions to date. Also, I wanted to do something a little different from OTL. Getting to the moon then fizzling seems rather odd for multiple timelines.

I'd ask you what in the timeline is sci-fi? This is all hard science and even OTL stuff, except them actually putting a 'moonbase' up there. Of course, I am now thinking of having the timeline extend to 2019, so maybe we'll get a little bit sci-fi<g>.

> But, to put it short, the premise is good and as a PowerPoint-style
> prototype, the timeline has lots of potential. Different people
> have different styles of writing, of course; myself, I have a
> tendency to write things to the exhausting detail,

Right. I tend to sketch in broad strokes rather than put in a lot of detail. Plus this particular timeline is being worked out as a joint venture between the AH.com and OTL.com, and we're planning on posting it in OTL.com which has this date format, which somewhat constrains how it is being written.

If you'd like to contribute some of those exhaustive details, however, feel free.

> as can be seen
> from the one timeline that I have been working on:
>
> http://www.uta.fi/~jj58679/polaris.html
>
> So far, it seems to be an eternity project.

Yes, I see what you're saying. It looks interesting, and when I have some more time I will have to go through it in detail.


> Cheers,
> Jalonen

Thanks again!

Glen

[Glen]

I've Been thinking about it, Without the Finland War, The Purges would have Continued, If the Russo/Jap war doesn't start till the late 41-42, then Russia may not win the Korea War.
the Sakhalin Island/Amur theater will be interesting also

Either way the military lessons will be different than OTL's European or Pacific Theater.

Anyone care to comment on these points?

[Glen]

I will list them, but do the profiles later:

Name: Ronald Wilson Reagan
Party: Republican
Term: 1977-1985

Name: Robert Dole
Party: Republican
Term: 1985-1989

Name: Robert Kerrey
Party: Democratic
Term: 1989-1997

Name: Frederick Dalton Thompson
Party: Republican
Term: 1997-2005

They are okay by me...love Fred Thompson as president, BTW. However, I think we need to work on the earlier unfolding of history to see where we are led to in terms of US presidential history later.

[Glen]

Here is the timeline from so far 1940 on. I'm waiting for some replies to the commentary from Jussi before closing entirely the 1930s. However, we should get to work on the 1940s anyway and look to finalize this decade. p99, I need those entries from you asap.

Now then, as it stands now, I haven't added anything about the Tunisia war.

I guess what I am envisioning is a war that Italy blunders into but has enough early successes that Mussolini grows overconfident and refuses to deal. Also, he thinks he can suck Franco in against the French (he's wrong). I want to make the Tunisia war realistic, but it should manage to have a big enough defeat for the Italians to give Mussolini the boot, and bonus points if we free Ethiopia! I'm okay with the rest of the Axis and the British/Germans/Northern European Alliance getting dragged into it, or not, whichever seems more plausible. What I don't want are the Soviets involved.

So, what do people think? Ideas and dates as to how events should unfold for a war? Anyone think we should not have the Tunisia war? Now's the time to speak up.

1940
January 14, 1940 Brazil's manufacturing output has increased substantially over the decade, but coffee production has declined. As a result, to further placate the forces of the old order, the government between 1934-37 and under the Estado Novo also has invested considerably in the expansion of coffee production. Coffee is also the principal foreign exchange export earner.
May 12, 1940 Presidential and Reichstag elections held. President Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck in his second election becomes the first President of the Republic to win a majority on the first ballot. With the addition of Catholic Austria to the Republic, the Center party and its allied minor parties are winners as well, and the new Center Party leader Konrad Adenauer becomes Chancellor of Germany (though still in a center-right coalition government).
September 1, 1940 Hungary launches a war against Romania over Transylvania. Their allies the Bulgarians simultaneously attack into Dobruja.
September 24, 1940 The Romanians were doing well against the Italian supported Hungarians and Bulgarians when the Soviets launch a surprise action into Bessarabia. Shortly thereafter, the Romanians are forced to cede Bessarabia to the Soviets in order to save their nation from them and return their attentions to the Hungarians and Bulgarians.
October 24, 1940 Much progress has been made in Brazil since Vargas came to power ten years ago. Cement production increases to 700,000 tons from 87,000 tons in October 24, 1930. Brazil's capacity for electricity generation reachs 1 million kilowatts, of which 60 percent was located in the São Paulo area, primarily due to the construction of hydroelectric power stations. Iron and steel output went up to 150,000 tons in 1939-40. The number of manufacturing enterprises more than double during the decade leading up to this date, reaching 50,000. Factories in the São Paulo area employ 35 percent of the industrial labor force and generate 43 percent of the value of industrial production. Aside from the export of textiles, the manufacturing industries serve the domestic market almost exclusively. Brazil has 44,100 plants employing 944,000 workers; the comparable figure for December 31, 1920 was 13,336 plants with about 300,000 workers.
November 5, 1940 Arthur Vandenberg elected President of the United States of America.

1941
February 19, 1941 Communist activist Ho Chi Minh returns to Vietnam after 30 years in exile and organizes a nationalist organization named the Viet Minh.
June 1, 1941 As relations with Japan remain strained, and Europe seems more risky, Stalin begins secret military build up on the Manchurian-Soviet and the Mongolian-Manchurian border, with Sergei Zhukov in command.
July 30, 1941 By the end of the month 30 Russian divisions are in the Far East, the Soviets have an advantage 2:1 in men, 4:1 in tanks and vehicles and 3:1 in aircrafts.
August 9th 1941 The Second Russo-Japanese war starts. The Soviets launch a two front attack with the city of Harbin as their first goal.
August 12, 1941 At the Battle of Vladivostsk, the Soviet Far East Fleet’s attempt to escape is foiled and the majority of the fleet is destroyed.
August 16th 1941 Peruvian forces capture Cuenca after heavy fighting. Both sides are exhausted and both sides agree a cease-fire. But secret pledges by the Colombian government that they will join the conflict helps the Ecuadorians to break the cease fire on September 10th 1941 after the arrival of Colombian “volunteers” and weapons.
August 18, 1941 The Sakalin campaign launched by the Japanese.
September 26th 1941 Ecuadorian counter offensive recaptures Cuenca. Peru prepares for a final offensive to try to end the conflict.
October 10th 1941 Coastal offensive started by Peru.
November 3, 1941 The Sakalin campaign ends with a combined army-marine Japanese effort successfully conquering the northern half of the island.
November 16, 1941 Due to the terrain and stubborn Japanese resistance it is not until the middle of November that Soviets reach Harbin. The siege of Harbin begins.
November 21, 1941 Czechoslovakia formally changes its name to the Central European Republic.
December 7th 1941 Guayaquil falls to Peruvian army. Peru sends terms of surrender to Ecuador. Ecuador after consideration and further promises by Colombia refuses. A December ceasefire agreed by both sides, in reality both sides are exhausted.
December 20, 1941 The Hungarians and Bulgarians give up their attempts at Romania and withdraw to the 1940 borders.
December 24, 1941 An informal ceasefire due to weather conditions has set in and both sides consolidate their positions.

1942
February 8, 1942 Ecuadorian counter offensive starts in attempt to recapture Guayaquil, casualties mount especially between Colombian volunteers. The offensive is called off on March 2nd 1942 after failing in their objectives.
February 9, 1942 Peruvian counter offensive starts in an attempt to recapture Cuenca. With majority of enemy forces facing Guayaquil the city falls by February 21st 1942.
February 15, 1942 President Baldomir dissolves the General Assembly in Montevideo and asks the opposition parties to join in defeating the military. Uruguay Civil War starts. Colorado Party changes name to Uruguayan Communist Party.
February 24, 1942 The ceasefire comes to an end when the Japanese begin their effort to relieve Harbin.
March 9, 1942 The Harbin relief effort collapses for the Japanese. Japanese inflict severe losses upon the Soviets in this attack but fail in their objective.
March 11, 1942 Ecuador accepts terms of Peru. Peru gains all disputed territory plus El Oro province.
March 17, 1942 Harbin falls to the Soviets. A Japanese offer of peace in exchange for accepting Soviet border claims in Manchuria is rejected.
April 1, 1942 The Deep Thrust; Soviet forces, finally in better terrain than the northern part of Manchuria launch a combined arms operation to destroy the Japanese presence in Manchuria.
April 12, 1942 Liberal leader Jorge Eliezer Gaitan asks for the resignation of the current Colombian government. He blamed them for the thousands of casualties incurred during the just ended conflict and the economic chaos the nation was suffering. The lower classes, from were the majority of the casualties came from and the ones suffering more of the slow recovery from the Depression, flock to him especially in the cities.
April 23, 1942 India is divided into a loose confederation of Hindu majority provinces, Muslim majority ones, and the Sikh Azaz Punjab. Each province is governed with a high degree of autonomy except for foreign affairs, communications, defense, and finances needed for nationwide affairs. The central government is located in Delhi. There was some opposition by all sides to this final arrangement but after some violence it was accepted; it was this or the dismembering of India.
May 1, 1942 Gandhi assassinated by a disgruntled INC fanatic.
May 15 1942 Ceasefire agreement between Japan and Nationalist Chinese allows Japan to move more forces to face the Soviets.
May 20, 1942 Eliezer Gaitan assassinated while giving speech in Bogota. Start of the Colombian Civil War. Liberal sympathizers take to the streets to fight government forces.
May 29, 1942 Liberal forces capture Bogota. Alfonso Lopez Pumarejo declared President by the Liberals. Incumbent President Eduardo Santos flees to Cartagena and asks for international recognition of his cabinet as the true government of Colombia.
June 3, 1942 The Brazilian government establishes the Companhia Vale do Rio Doce to exploit the rich iron-ore deposits of Itabira.
June 6, 1942 The largest air battle ever seen is fought on this day. Both sides claim victory, but it appears to be a narrow victory for the Soviets through the sheer number of Soviet planes, not by technical or equipment advantages of which they have none; the Japanese machines are superior and Japanese pilots are about even in quality.
June 18 1942 Two Soviet tank divisions fight an ad-hoc formation equivalent to a reinforced armored brigade near Mukden. The Soviets have mostly T-26s, but with a considerable number of T-34s as well; the Japanese have Type 95 tanks. After the Soviet victory, the Japanese recognize the failure of their tank designs and begin searching abroad for new models.
July 12, 1942 The Japanese have been expelled from most of Manchuria and forced to a defensive line on the Yalu River.
July 28, 1942 Nationalist China refuses to let Japanese forces in China attack north, threatening to end the ceasefire agreement if the Japanese attack the Soviets from Chinese soil.
August 10, 1942 After a lull of one month to recover, the Soviets begin their offensive into Korea.
September 14, 1942 Uruguayan Civil War ends. Communist Party wins and declares the People’s Republic of Uruguay. While neutral, this nation turns into a sanctuary for communist sympathizers from Argentina and neighboring countries. Inmediatly recognized by the Soviet Union.
October 7, 1942 The Japanese evacuation of the Liounyan Peninsula culminates with the destruction of the Port Arthur facilities.
November 25, 1942 Juan Antonio Ríos Morales, a member of the Radical Party, is elected president of Chile.
December 31, 1942 The Japanese front is a line anchored by Wonsan and running from there west. Japanese offers of peace (Manchuria to the Soviets, Korea to the Japanese) are considered by Stalin, but rejected.

1943
March 23, 1943 The first jet fighter is developed by RLM using engine design of Anselm Franz.
April 6, 1943 The Japanese launch their counter-offensive. The slow grinding Soviet offensive has been continual throughout the year, but with the arrival of Japanese forces from China and the Japanese shorter supply lines the Soviet casualties are finally beginning to be felt. The Soviet push into Korea has bogged down. With Japan still controlling the seas, it has become a slow, grinding fight all the way down the peninsula, as the Soviets have to take on every fortified pass. The mountainous terrain also does much to negate the Soviet armor advantage. The Japanese actually gain ground and recapture Seoul.
May 13, 1943 The military ousts Argentina's constitutional government.
June 18 1943 After mediation by the United States, the Second Russo-Japanese War ends when Stalin accepts the last Japanese offer of borders drawn based on the front lines. Manchuria will become the People’s Republic of Manchuria under Mao Tse Tong, but with Soviet troops stationed there guaranteeing they remain within the Soviet sphere. North Korea too becomes a Communist satellite of the USSR. Japan, bled dry by the war, also formalizes the ceasefire with Nationalist China.
August 5, 1943 Vargas announces for Brazil a twelve year plan for growth into the interior. To distance himself from the newly defeated Mussolini he begins to go back to some of his left-centre ideologies. The opening of Southern Brazil for homesteading, a more open stance on immigration, and land reforms are key points to his plan. Vargas opens the frontier by opening forts and oil towns around the west and south.
September 20, 1943 In the wake of the Japanese performance in the Second Russo-Japaneses war, the Emperor dismisses the militarists and installs more democratically minded ministers.
October 28, 1943 Axis powers launch a surprise invasion of Greece. Bulgaria hit a wall from the very beginning but Italy made some minimal gains before also being stopped.
November 21, 1943 the Greeks, with secret shipment of weapons from the British coming from Egypt, launches a counter offensive that recaptures most of the lost territory.
December 1, 1943 Great Britain and the Northern European Alliance send a demarche to the Axis powers to withdraw to their borders or a state of war will exist between them. The Axis received 72 hours to comply. Europe is on the brink of a major war.
December 2, 1943 Armed forces of the Northern European Alliance begin to mobilize. Axis nations’ leaders meet in an emergency meeting in Rome.
December 3, 1943 Axis begins withdrawing from Greece. German President Lettow-Vorbeck announces this as a victory for the democracies of Europe. He also states that the Balkans are not a playfield that could be trampled on by the fascist nations and invites both Turkey and Greece to join their European Alliance.

1944
January 7, 1944 The A-4 rocket has its first successful launch at Peenemünde.
February 7, 1944 Turkey asks for membership of the Northern European Alliance. With borders with both communists and fascists they consider this their best course of action.
February 21, 1944 Greece asks for membership to the Northern European Alliance. With their pre-Greek crisis neutrality stance shot to bits by the actions of the Axis they decide like the Turkish government that their best course of action was to join the Northern European Alliance.
June 5, 1944 Brazil creates a company for the production of materials needed by the chemical industry.
November 7, 1944 President Vandenberg wins re-election in the USA.

1945
September 21, 1945 End of the severe famine due to drought near Hanoi and surrounding areas kills close to one million people but more are saved by a League of Nations effort to help the people in the area. However, Ho Chi Minh uses this drought to recruit members for his movement.
December 23, 1945 Ho Chi Minh launches their first large-scale attack against the French. By now the Viet Minh are 30,000 strong and the numbers continue to grow.

1946

January 15, 1946 Conservative Eduardo Cruz-Coke Lassabe is elected president of Chile.
February 20, 1946 Perón is victorious in Argentine elections. He aggressively pursues policies aimed at giving an economic and political voice to the working class and greatly expanding the number of unionized workers.
June 3, 1946 the National Motor Company begins the production of trucks.
August 14, 1946 Dictator Vargas of Brazil sees the realization of one of his cherished dreams; The National Steel Company begins production at the Volta Redonda plant between Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo.

1947
February 4, 1947 President Lettow-Vorbeck announces that he will not seek re-election to the Presidency.
April 20, 1947 The first successful test detonation of an atomic bomb performed by Germany.
June 20, 1947 In the second dual Presidential and Reichstag elections, the SPD candidate, senior statesman Otto Braun wins the presidency on the second ballot. SPD leader Erich Ollenhauer becomes Chancellor of a center-left coalition government. He and UK Labour Government Prime Minister Clement Attlee would come to work closely together over the years.

1948
March 29, 1948 Werner von Braun becomes head of the new civilian German Space Agency he has lobbied for years to have formed.

1949
August 14, 1949 The last British forces leave India except for the ones in the Calcutta naval station, the airbase near Bombay, and sundry other bases necessary for the defense of the Commonwealth.
October 2, 1949 The Reichstag passes an amendment to have the Presidential election go to a run-off if there is no majority winner in the first round.
November 1, 1949 The guerilla war in Vietnam continues with no end in sight. By now the Viet Minh is close to 45,000 men strong.
1951
May 1, 1951 The Soviet Union test detonates its first atomic bomb, created mostly from plans stolen from Germany through espionage.

1957
March 3, 1957 The German A-11 rocket launches the first satellite into orbit. This will be the last great achievement of an independent German Space Program, as spending priorities on domestic programs will not allow further unilateral funding for the very expensive Space program. The German government begins to seek partners for Space exploration.

1958
July 4, 1958 The Republic of Germany, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America pool their resources to launch a joint space initiative, the North Atlantic Space Agency. The Central European Republic and other allied nations soon join the group as junior partners.

1961
October 8, 1961 The Soviet Union shocks the world by sending the first man into orbit. Funding of the North Atlantic Space Agency will increase significantly as the member nations dedicate themselves to putting a base on the moon by 1980.

1969
June 2, 1969 NASA sends the first men to the moon (symbolically, a German, American, and Briton).
August 11, 1969 Germans celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of the Weimar Constitution (date of its announcement).

1979
August 20, 1979 The NASA moon base, a capsule buried under the lunar soil, goes into operation, a year ahead of the deadline set in 1961.

2005
August 11, 2005 The 86th Anniversary of the announcement of the Weimar Constitution of the Republic of Germany.

[perdedor99]

Far East to 1955:


August 26th 1946- Philippines awarded their independence by the United States. A very peaceful transition from Commonwealth to Republic.

August 29th 1946- Start of communist guerilla campaign in China. Chiang accuses the Soviet and the Republic of Manchuria of aiding the rebels, charges they deny.

September 27th 1946- Communist forces capture Xian. Evidence of heavy artillery and crew served weapons verified by foreign witnesses.

October 18th 1946- US President Arthur Vandenberg pledge his support to the government of the Republic of China. Loans are granted to purchase newer equipment to fight the communist aggression.

January 14th 1947- Communist insurrection started in Luzon Island by a group later know as the Huks.

March 13th 1947- Communist strikes on the Japanese port of Osaka and other major ports turns violent. Troops called to break the disturbances. Japanese Communist Party outlawed as a result. Emergency powers given to Admiral Yamamoto to rule Japan until the Communist menace is eliminated.

April 8th 1948- Admiral Yamamoto announces the Emergency is over and elections will be held on June 8th 1948 to elect a new Prime Minister. The Japanese communist movement has been stamped out. With their leader dead, jailed or gone into exile the movement is effectively dead.

June 12th 1948- Mohammed Hatta and Sukarno ask the Dutch Government in a letter published in Batavia to began a process of gradual independence to Indonesia. Both are jailed for sedition.

October 5th 1948- Japan is accepted back as a member of the League of Nations after Admiral Yamamoto put in a request for admittance as one of his last officials acts as de facto ruler of Japan.

February 7th 1949-With Huk influence now covering more than ¾ of the island of Luzon, the Philippines government ask the League of Nations for help in stamping this rebellion. Japan pledge air support and two SNLF brigades to help defeating the rebellion. Australia, New Zealand, Great Britain and Germany also pledge their support but in a smaller scale than Japan.

February 11th 1949- President Robert Taft, worried by how much the League and especially Japan can extend their influence over Philippines, also offer help in the form of air support, loans for the purchase of weapons and a mix Marine-Army Task Force comprised of forces already stationed in Hawaii and the West Coast of the United States.

October 4th 1949- Chinese Communist stronghold in Yennan falls to Nationalist Army. End of organized communist resistance in China. While low-level guerilla warfare will continue the threat of a Communist insurrection achieving their goal of defeating Chiang’s government is considered over.

December2nd 1949- Charles de Gaulle, a hero of the French-Italian war, ordered to Indochina to take command of the forces in the region.

March 29th 1950-Process of vietnamitation of forces serving in Indochina started. By July 1954 close to 50% of French forces fighting the guerillas were Vietnamese soldiers. This was a result of the losses incurred during the French-Italian war, which created a manpower drain in the French forces at the time.

April 8th 1950- Combined United States-Japanese force capture Huk stronghold in Mt Abak. Casualties are heavy but Huk leader captured during operation. General Maxwell Taylor, US commander in theater, praised the performance of the Japanese soldiers and said this event could be the beginning of a closer relationship between both nations.Picture of Japanese and American soldiers jointly raising each other flags made the front page of Times Magazine.

May 8th 1951- Chinese and French officers met to discuss cooperation to eradicate Viet Minh on both side of their borders.

September 9th 1951- Operation Joint Strike started by both the Chinese and French in each other sides of the border. Operation last until the end of November and close to 15,000 enemy men are either killed or captured. With the destruction of the Viet Minh sanctuaries on the other side of the Chinese border the war entered a lull in the tempo of operations until the Viet Minh recovered from the terrible casualties of this operation.

December 8th 1951-With war in the Philippines winding down, the German detachment began embarkation home. The German detachment during the war never was bigger than a couple of close support bomber squadrons and two special civic action groups.

January 3rd 1952- League of Nations officially announces their mission to the Philippines to be over. Still Australians troops stayed until May 16th 1952 and Japanese forces until October 10th 1955.

February 6th 1952- Border clashes between Soviet union and China in the Sinking-Soviet border and the Mongolian-Soviet border used by Stalin to launch an invasion of both borders areas. Sino-Soviet War of 1952-53 starts with this action. Stalin gambled that with his very public demonstration that he know possessed the Atomic bomb the League of Nations wasn’t going to risk general war for some territory in the middle of Asia.

March 10th 1953- Treaty of Beijing signed. Republic of China is forced to recognize lost of the province of Sinking to the Soviets and other small territorial concessions on the Mongolian-Chinese border. American President Thomas Dewey response to this treaty was “ that the fear of this new weapon, the atomic bomb, is the only reason the free nations of the world stood idle while this unequal treaty was imposed on the Chinese people.”

August 17th 1953- Mohammad Hatta and Sukarno, just released from prison after serving five years sentences, gave a speech asking the Indonesian people to fight for their freedom and to throw the Dutch out of their country. They immediately went into hiding. This date is considered the start of the Indonesian War of Independence or the Indonesian Insurrection, depending of the point of view.

May 18th 1954- Charles de Gaulle is replaced as commander of the French forces in Indochina and retires from military service soon after to enter politics.

September 22nd 1954- The Republic of China and the United Kingdom signed an extension of the lease of the city of Hong Kong that will finally end the British ownership of the city in the year 2050.

September 24th 1954- Secret meeting between Chinese government officials and moderate members of the Viet Minh promises covert support if they tone down their socialist leaning, turn more into a nationalist movement instead of a communist one and get rid of the more radical members of their movemement.

July 5th 1955- Trade and Cooperation Agreement signed by the Republic of China and the Empire of Japan. Chiang victories over the guerillas in his country and over the Viet Minh gave him a false sense of security that came crashing down with the defeat in the war of 1952. Both Japan and his nation considered the Soviet Union the main threat and this treaty is the realization that their best approach was to cooperate.

[perdedor99]

I was working on the Tunisian War at work today and is halfway. It started with border clashes on January 1944, followed by an Italian offensive that started April. The Italians have the advantage from April to the middle of June. They captured half of Tunisia and the island of Corsica in a daring airborne attack. But by the end of July the Italians, the French rule the seas and they are preparing for their counter attack. Need to work in the final details. de Gaulle is the commander of the Corps d'Afrique a two armored, one motorized divisions Corps.

[Wendell]

Would the Japanese Empire surviving not concern an independent Philippines?

[DuQuense]

September 22nd 1954- The Republic of China and the United Kingdom signed an extension of the lease of the city of Hong Kong that will finally end the British ownership of the city in the year 2050.

You mean a extention of the Lease on the new Territories, Victoria Island WAS British Territory, Like The Channel Islands, or Gibraltar.


I am only up to page 15, so maybe this has been Covered

Transportation,

Zepplins [what is a ATL with out Zeps]

without the Nazis the US continues to sell Helium to Germany

May 6, 1937., The Graf Hindenburg, Lands with out Incident, Discharging Her Passengers, and being stowed in the Hanger Were She will be Outfitted for the Return trip, several days later.

Bicycles

Also in the 20's and 30's Men Rode Gentleman's 28"ers, while the Women rode a Ladies 26", During WW2 Most of the Mens 28"s were given away to the Scrap Drives, and when they men returned They were Interested in Autos, So the 28" Mans Bike never resumed production. Without WW2 The Bike Industry is not interrupted, and Bikes remain part of the Transportation Mix, instead of being pushed into the Children's Toys, Category.

Trains
Shrouded or Streamline Steam trains were setting new speed records thru out the 30's

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/streamlined/scrapped/

See link at Bottom for Fastest Train -A German Locomotive. Thru the German Autobahn spelled the coming of the auto, Without the WW2, High speed Steam Powered Passenger trains would have continued, Delaying the growth of the Automobile society by several years.

Jets
without the Pressure of WW2 the development of Jet engines is slightly Delayed, Allowing the Passenger liner, and Planes like the Chinese Clipper to live a few extra years.

[Glen]

I was working on the Tunisian War at work today and is halfway. It started with border clashes on January 1944, followed by an Italian offensive that started April. The Italians have the advantage from April to the middle of June. They captured half of Tunisia and the island of Corsica in a daring airborne attack. But by the end of July the Italians, the French rule the seas and they are preparing for their counter attack. Need to work in the final details. de Gaulle is the commander of the Corps d'Afrique a two armored, one motorized divisions Corps.

Sounds promising.

Thanks for all the hard work you've been doing on 'Weimar World'.

[Glen]

Would the Japanese Empire surviving not concern an independent Philippines?

Depends on the character it takes over the years. If the militarists are out and the Japanese take a more moderate course over the decades, then they might not conflict, and might even cooperate on an economic basis.

The peaceful fruition of a Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, one built solely on the basis of economics?

[Glen]

September 22nd 1954- The Republic of China and the United Kingdom signed an extension of the lease of the city of Hong Kong that will finally end the British ownership of the city in the year 2050.

You mean a extention of the Lease on the new Territories, Victoria Island WAS British Territory, Like The Channel Islands, or Gibraltar.


I am only up to page 15, so maybe this has been Covered

Nothing has been really covered yet on tech other than some stuff on rockets, atomics, and jets.


Transportation,

Zepplins [what is a ATL with out Zeps]

without the Nazis the US continues to sell Helium to Germany

May 6, 1937., The Graf Hindenburg, Lands with out Incident, Discharging Her Passengers, and being stowed in the Hanger Were She will be Outfitted for the Return trip, several days later.

Agreed that the airships will do better for a time in this timeline. Helium dirigibles will be the standard from the early to mid 30s. Interesting that you say 'Graf Hindenberg'. The airship that in OTL was the Hindenberg will probably have some differences in design since it will be able to use helium, and it is less likely to be named after Hindenberg, who is never President in this timeline, and Eckener retains control of the Zepplin company. Unfortunately, the only name he ever seems to have given a Zepplin was 'Graf Zepplin' after the old Count. So what would be the name of our Hindenberg analogue? Would it be named after a president, thus "Ebert" or "Lettow-Vorbeck". Lettow-Vorbeck may be too recent, but Ebert is still alive in this timeline and just out of office, so maybe neither? Well, if we aren't naming it after a President, a city or something else?

Hmm, The Airship Berlin?

Zepplins will likely be quite popular throughout the 1930s and 1940s, but will probably be superceded by the plane, especially the jet plane, by the early 1950s.


Bicycles

Also in the 20's and 30's Men Rode Gentleman's 28"ers, while the Women rode a Ladies 26", During WW2 Most of the Mens 28"s were given away to the Scrap Drives, and when they men returned They were Interested in Autos, So the 28" Mans Bike never resumed production. Without WW2 The Bike Industry is not interrupted, and Bikes remain part of the Transportation Mix, instead of being pushed into the Children's Toys, Category.

Sounds plausible. Can you write some dates pertaining to the continuing 28" bicycle industry?


Trains
Shrouded or Streamline Steam trains were setting new speed records thru out the 30's

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/streamlined/scrapped/

See link at Bottom for Fastest Train -A German Locomotive. Thru the German Autobahn spelled the coming of the auto, Without the WW2, High speed Steam Powered Passenger trains would have continued, Delaying the growth of the Automobile society by several years.

Why does avoiding WW2 lead to this? I'm not quite following here.


Jets
without the Pressure of WW2 the development of Jet engines is slightly Delayed, Allowing the Passenger liner, and Planes like the Chinese Clipper to live a few extra years.

Actually, the first work on Jets done in Germany was by a civilian aviation company. Without the disruption of WWII, commercial jets are likely to develop either on schedule or a little earlier, not later. And if it is developing in the civilian sector, you know the military will not be far behind. I would say overall that the jet airplane is developing on a more or less OTL schedule.

[Glen]

p99, everything looks at first glance great to me, except this one line I'm not so certain of -


September 24th 1954- Secret meeting between Chinese government officials and moderate members of the Viet Minh promises covert support if they tone down their socialist leaning, turn more into a nationalist movement instead of a communist one and get rid of the more radical members of their movemement.

Are the Vietnamese and Chinese really likely to trust each other? They've got a rather long history on that...

In this timeline, there has been no Japanese invasion of Vietnam, so I would think they might look to Japan as a possible supporter?

What is going on in the rest of Indochina at this time? That would affect the situation, I would think....

[Glen]

QUOTE (Aimfire @ Aug 31 2005, 12:45 PM)
I just noticed something. Thre will be no two term amendment in the US with no FDR in office. Therefore the likely hood of a second term curse is even less likely, with something like Watergate being more likely for both sides..

Therefore I ask that we put off on animg any president until we know the situation in which they would be elected and how then how we'd think they'd handle it. For all we know Martin Luther King, Jr. is elected on a civil rights ballot in the 1970s by Northern Democrats and Southern Republicans.


Good points...

I'd love to see a MLK presidency from Northern Dems and Southern Reps, but that isn't even remotely possible. First off, in the 1970s most of the few Southern Republicans are old Dixiecrats who left the Democrats over Civil Rights.

Now then, if we see the rise of the 'New South' in this timeline, you might see someone like MLK elected, if he can survive the extramarital scandals.

A man named Martin Luther King, Jr. is likely to be born in this timeline, but as our MLK was born in 1929, for him to be OUR MLK, we would have to assume this is a rare parallelist universe as opposed to the more common diverging universes where the butterflies start effecting small events like which egg and which sperm get together, when.

[Straha]

why not have this TL go a bit dystopic? As in having racism continue to increase like it did from the late 19th century to WWII IOTL?

[Othniel]

Good points...

I'd love to see a MLK presidency from Northern Dems and Southern Reps, but that isn't even remotely possible. First off, in the 1970s most of the few Southern Republicans are old Dixiecrats who left the Democrats over Civil Rights.

Now then, if we see the rise of the 'New South' in this timeline, you might see someone like MLK elected, if he can survive the extramarital scandals.

A man named Martin Luther King, Jr. is likely to be born in this timeline, but as our MLK was born in 1929, for him to be OUR MLK, we would have to assume this is a rare parallelist universe as opposed to the more common diverging universes where the butterflies start effecting small events like which egg and which sperm get together, when.
First off we don't know if that split occurs yet. Secondly it is quite possible sense he has the same genetic donors in the same year that the same person will be born, despite the right egg and and right sperm. There is nothing to assume that the domestic manners that produced MLK would be effected. I personally believe in genetic divergences but the conditions that would produce MLK are still there, as are many of the events that would shape him till the beginning of WW2. Without evidences of visible enviromental changes or that of different genetic temperances I would assume that it would be prudent that any where the conditions remained the same for their birth would be born and would devolp along the same path until the domestic atmosphere changes enough to make a sigificant impact on their manner of thought.

[Glen]

The timeline from 1940 to 2019 thus far.

1940
January 14, 1940 Brazil's manufacturing output has increased substantially over the decade, but coffee production has declined. As a result, to further placate the forces of the old order, the government between 1934-37 and under the Estado Novo also has invested considerably in the expansion of coffee production. Coffee is also the principal foreign exchange export earner.
May 12, 1940 Presidential and Reichstag elections held. President Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck in his second election becomes the first President of the Republic to win a majority on the first ballot. With the addition of Catholic Austria to the Republic, the Center party and its allied minor parties are winners as well, and the new Center Party leader Konrad Adenauer becomes Chancellor of Germany (though still in a center-right coalition government).
September 1, 1940 Hungary launches a war against Romania over Transylvania. Their allies the Bulgarians simultaneously attack into Dobruja.
September 24, 1940 The Romanians were doing well against the Italian supported Hungarians and Bulgarians when the Soviets launch a surprise action into Bessarabia. Shortly thereafter, the Romanians are forced to cede Bessarabia to the Soviets in order to save their nation from them and return their attentions to the Hungarians and Bulgarians.
October 24, 1940 Much progress has been made in Brazil since Vargas came to power ten years ago. Cement production increases to 700,000 tons from 87,000 tons in October 24, 1930. Brazil's capacity for electricity generation reachs 1 million kilowatts, of which 60 percent was located in the São Paulo area, primarily due to the construction of hydroelectric power stations. Iron and steel output went up to 150,000 tons in 1939-40. The number of manufacturing enterprises more than double during the decade leading up to this date, reaching 50,000. Factories in the São Paulo area employ 35 percent of the industrial labor force and generate 43 percent of the value of industrial production. Aside from the export of textiles, the manufacturing industries serve the domestic market almost exclusively. Brazil has 44,100 plants employing 944,000 workers; the comparable figure for December 31, 1920 was 13,336 plants with about 300,000 workers.
November 5, 1940 Arthur Vandenberg elected President of the United States of America.

1941
February 19, 1941 Communist activist Ho Chi Minh returns to Vietnam after 30 years in exile and organizes a nationalist organization named the Viet Minh.
June 1, 1941 As relations with Japan remain strained, and Europe seems more risky, Stalin begins secret military build up on the Manchurian-Soviet and the Mongolian-Manchurian border, with Sergei Zhukov in command.
July 30, 1941 By the end of the month 30 Russian divisions are in the Far East, the Soviets have an advantage 2:1 in men, 4:1 in tanks and vehicles and 3:1 in aircrafts.
August 9th 1941 The Second Russo-Japanese war starts. The Soviets launch a two front attack with the city of Harbin as their first goal.
August 12, 1941 At the Battle of Vladivostsk, the Soviet Far East Fleet’s attempt to escape is foiled and the majority of the fleet is destroyed.
August 16th 1941 Peruvian forces capture Cuenca after heavy fighting. Both sides are exhausted and both sides agree a cease-fire. But secret pledges by the Colombian government that they will join the conflict helps the Ecuadorians to break the cease fire on September 10th 1941 after the arrival of Colombian “volunteers” and weapons.
August 18, 1941 The Sakalin campaign launched by the Japanese.
September 26th 1941 Ecuadorian counter offensive recaptures Cuenca. Peru prepares for a final offensive to try to end the conflict.
October 10th 1941 Coastal offensive started by Peru.
November 3, 1941 The Sakalin campaign ends with a combined army-marine Japanese effort successfully conquering the northern half of the island.
November 16, 1941 Due to the terrain and stubborn Japanese resistance it is not until the middle of November that Soviets reach Harbin. The siege of Harbin begins.
November 21, 1941 Czechoslovakia formally changes its name to the Central European Republic.
December 7th 1941 Guayaquil falls to Peruvian army. Peru sends terms of surrender to Ecuador. Ecuador after consideration and further promises by Colombia refuses. A December ceasefire agreed by both sides, in reality both sides are exhausted.
December 20, 1941 The Hungarians and Bulgarians give up their attempts at Romania and withdraw to the 1940 borders.
December 24, 1941 An informal ceasefire due to weather conditions has set in and both sides consolidate their positions.

1942
February 8, 1942 Ecuadorian counter offensive starts in attempt to recapture Guayaquil, casualties mount especially between Colombian volunteers. The offensive is called off on March 2nd 1942 after failing in their objectives.
February 9, 1942 Peruvian counter offensive starts in an attempt to recapture Cuenca. With majority of enemy forces facing Guayaquil the city falls by February 21st 1942.
February 15, 1942 President Baldomir dissolves the General Assembly in Montevideo and asks the opposition parties to join in defeating the military. Uruguay Civil War starts. Colorado Party changes name to Uruguayan Communist Party.
February 24, 1942 The ceasefire comes to an end when the Japanese begin their effort to relieve Harbin.
March 9, 1942 The Harbin relief effort collapses for the Japanese. Japanese inflict severe losses upon the Soviets in this attack but fail in their objective.
March 11, 1942 Ecuador accepts terms of Peru. Peru gains all disputed territory plus El Oro province.
March 17, 1942 Harbin falls to the Soviets. A Japanese offer of peace in exchange for accepting Soviet border claims in Manchuria is rejected.
April 1, 1942 The Deep Thrust; Soviet forces, finally in better terrain than the northern part of Manchuria launch a combined arms operation to destroy the Japanese presence in Manchuria.
April 12, 1942 Liberal leader Jorge Eliezer Gaitan asks for the resignation of the current Colombian government. He blamed them for the thousands of casualties incurred during the just ended conflict and the economic chaos the nation was suffering. The lower classes, from were the majority of the casualties came from and the ones suffering more of the slow recovery from the Depression, flock to him especially in the cities.
April 23, 1942 India is divided into a loose confederation of Hindu majority provinces, Muslim majority ones, and the Sikh Azaz Punjab. Each province is governed with a high degree of autonomy except for foreign affairs, communications, defense, and finances needed for nationwide affairs. The central government is located in Delhi. There was some opposition by all sides to this final arrangement but after some violence it was accepted; it was this or the dismembering of India.
May 1, 1942 Gandhi assassinated by a disgruntled INC fanatic.
May 15 1942 Ceasefire agreement between Japan and Nationalist Chinese allows Japan to move more forces to face the Soviets.
May 20, 1942 Eliezer Gaitan assassinated while giving speech in Bogota. Start of the Colombian Civil War. Liberal sympathizers take to the streets to fight government forces.
May 29, 1942 Liberal forces capture Bogota. Alfonso Lopez Pumarejo declared President by the Liberals. Incumbent President Eduardo Santos flees to Cartagena and asks for international recognition of his cabinet as the true government of Colombia.
June 3, 1942 The Brazilian government establishes the Companhia Vale do Rio Doce to exploit the rich iron-ore deposits of Itabira.
June 6, 1942 The largest air battle ever seen is fought on this day. Both sides claim victory, but it appears to be a narrow victory for the Soviets through the sheer number of Soviet planes, not by technical or equipment advantages of which they have none; the Japanese machines are superior and Japanese pilots are about even in quality.
June 18 1942 Two Soviet tank divisions fight an ad-hoc formation equivalent to a reinforced armored brigade near Mukden. The Soviets have mostly T-26s, but with a considerable number of T-34s as well; the Japanese have Type 95 tanks. After the Soviet victory, the Japanese recognize the failure of their tank designs and begin searching abroad for new models.
July 12, 1942 The Japanese have been expelled from most of Manchuria and forced to a defensive line on the Yalu River.
July 28, 1942 Nationalist China refuses to let Japanese forces in China attack north, threatening to end the ceasefire agreement if the Japanese attack the Soviets from Chinese soil.
August 10, 1942 After a lull of one month to recover, the Soviets begin their offensive into Korea.
September 14, 1942 Uruguayan Civil War ends. Communist Party wins and declares the People’s Republic of Uruguay. While neutral, this nation turns into a sanctuary for communist sympathizers from Argentina and neighboring countries. Inmediatly recognized by the Soviet Union.
October 7, 1942 The Japanese evacuation of the Liounyan Peninsula culminates with the destruction of the Port Arthur facilities.
November 25, 1942 Juan Antonio Ríos Morales, a member of the Radical Party, is elected president of Chile.
December 31, 1942 The Japanese front is a line anchored by Wonsan and running from there west. Japanese offers of peace (Manchuria to the Soviets, Korea to the Japanese) are considered by Stalin, but rejected.

1943
March 23, 1943 The first jet fighter is developed by RLM using engine design of Anselm Franz.
April 6, 1943 The Japanese launch their counter-offensive. The slow grinding Soviet offensive has been continual throughout the year, but with the arrival of Japanese forces from China and the Japanese shorter supply lines the Soviet casualties are finally beginning to be felt. The Soviet push into Korea has bogged down. With Japan still controlling the seas, it has become a slow, grinding fight all the way down the peninsula, as the Soviets have to take on every fortified pass. The mountainous terrain also does much to negate the Soviet armor advantage. The Japanese actually gain ground and recapture Seoul.
May 13, 1943 The military ousts Argentina's constitutional government.
June 18 1943 After mediation by the United States, the Second Russo-Japanese War ends when Stalin accepts the last Japanese offer of borders drawn based on the front lines. Manchuria will become the People’s Republic of Manchuria under Mao Tse Tong, but with Soviet troops stationed there guaranteeing they remain within the Soviet sphere. North Korea too becomes a Communist satellite of the USSR. Japan, bled dry by the war, also formalizes the ceasefire with Nationalist China.
August 5, 1943 Vargas announces for Brazil a twelve year plan for growth into the interior. To distance himself from the newly defeated Mussolini he begins to go back to some of his left-centre ideologies. The opening of Southern Brazil for homesteading, a more open stance on immigration, and land reforms are key points to his plan. Vargas opens the frontier by opening forts and oil towns around the west and south.
September 20, 1943 In the wake of the Japanese performance in the Second Russo-Japaneses war, the Emperor dismisses the militarists and installs more democratically minded ministers.
October 28, 1943 Axis powers launch a surprise invasion of Greece. Bulgaria hit a wall from the very beginning but Italy made some minimal gains before also being stopped.
November 21, 1943 the Greeks, with secret shipment of weapons from the British coming from Egypt, launches a counter offensive that recaptures most of the lost territory.
December 1, 1943 Great Britain and the Northern European Alliance send a demarche to the Axis powers to withdraw to their borders or a state of war will exist between them. The Axis received 72 hours to comply. Europe is on the brink of a major war.
December 2, 1943 Armed forces of the Northern European Alliance begin to mobilize. Axis nations’ leaders meet in an emergency meeting in Rome.
December 3, 1943 Axis begins withdrawing from Greece. German President Lettow-Vorbeck announces this as a victory for the democracies of Europe. He also states that the Balkans are not a playfield that could be trampled on by the fascist nations and invites both Turkey and Greece to join their European Alliance.

1944
January 7, 1944 The A-4 rocket has its first successful launch at Peenemünde.
February 7, 1944 Turkey asks for membership of the Northern European Alliance. With borders with both communists and fascists they consider this their best course of action.
February 21, 1944 Greece asks for membership to the Northern European Alliance. With their pre-Greek crisis neutrality stance shot to bits by the actions of the Axis they decide like the Turkish government that their best course of action was to join the Northern European Alliance.
June 5, 1944 Brazil creates a company for the production of materials needed by the chemical industry.
November 7, 1944 President Vandenberg wins re-election in the USA.

1945
September 21, 1945 End of the severe famine due to drought near Hanoi and surrounding areas kills close to one million people but more are saved by a League of Nations effort to help the people in the area. However, Ho Chi Minh uses this drought to recruit members for his movement.
December 23, 1945 Ho Chi Minh launches their first large-scale attack against the French. By now the Viet Minh are 30,000 strong and the numbers continue to grow.

1946

January 15, 1946 Conservative Eduardo Cruz-Coke Lassabe is elected president of Chile.
February 20, 1946 Perón is victorious in Argentine elections. He aggressively pursues policies aimed at giving an economic and political voice to the working class and greatly expanding the number of unionized workers.
June 3, 1946 the National Motor Company begins the production of trucks.
August 14, 1946 Dictator Vargas of Brazil sees the realization of one of his cherished dreams; The National Steel Company begins production at the Volta Redonda plant between Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo.
August 26, 1946 Philippines awarded their independence by the United States; a very peaceful transition from Commonwealth to Republic.
August 29, 1946 Start of communist guerilla campaign in China. Chiang accuses the Soviet and the Republic of Manchuria of aiding the rebels, charges they deny.
September 27, 1946 Communist forces capture Xian. Evidence of heavy artillery and crew served weapons verified by foreign witnesses.
October 18, 1946 US President Arthur Vandenberg pledge his support to the government of the Republic of China. Loans are granted to purchase newer equipment to fight the communist aggression.

1947
January 14, 1947 Communist insurrection started in Luzon Island by a group later know as the Huks.
February 4, 1947 President Lettow-Vorbeck announces that he will not seek re-election to the Presidency.
March 13, 1947 Communist strikes on the Japanese port of Osaka and other major ports turns violent. Troops called to break the disturbances. Japanese Communist Party outlawed as a result. Emergency powers given to Admiral Yamamoto to rule Japan until the Communist menace is eliminated.
April 20, 1947 The first successful test detonation of an atomic bomb performed by Germany.
June 20, 1947 In the second dual Presidential and Reichstag elections, the SPD candidate, senior statesman Otto Braun wins the presidency on the second ballot. SPD leader Erich Ollenhauer becomes Chancellor of a center-left coalition government. He and UK Labour Government Prime Minister Clement Attlee would come to work closely together over the years.

1948
March 29, 1948 Werner von Braun becomes head of the new civilian German Space Agency he has lobbied for years to have formed.
April 8, 1948 Admiral Yamamoto announces the Emergency is over and elections will be held on June 8th 1948 to elect a new Prime Minister. The Japanese communist movement has been stamped out. With their leader dead, jailed or gone into exile the movement is effectively dead.
June 12, 1948 Mohammed Hatta and Sukarno ask the Dutch Government in a letter published in Batavia to began a process of gradual independence to Indonesia. Both are jailed for sedition.
October 5, 1948 Japan is accepted back as a member of the League of Nations after Admiral Yamamoto put in a request for admittance as one of his last officials acts as de facto ruler of Japan.

1949
February 7, 1949 With Huk influence now covering more than ¾ of the island of Luzon, the Philippines government ask the League of Nations for help in stamping this rebellion. Japan pledge air support and two SNLF brigades to help defeating the rebellion. Australia, New Zealand, Great Britain and Germany also pledge their support but in a smaller scale than Japan.
February 11, 1949 President Robert Taft, worried by how much the League and especially Japan can extend their influence over Philippines, also offer help in the form of air support, loans for the purchase of weapons and a mix Marine-Army Task Force comprised of forces already stationed in Hawaii and the West Coast of the United States.
August 14, 1949 The last British forces leave India except for the ones in the Calcutta naval station, the airbase near Bombay, and sundry other bases necessary for the defense of the Commonwealth.
October 2, 1949 The Reichstag passes an amendment to have the Presidential election go to a run-off if there is no majority winner in the first round.
October 4, 1949 Chinese Communist stronghold in Yennan falls to Nationalist Army. End of organized communist resistance in China. While low-level guerilla warfare will continue the threat of a Communist insurrection achieving their goal of defeating Chiang’s government is considered over.
November 1, 1949 The guerilla war in Vietnam continues with no end in sight. By now the Viet Minh is close to 45,000 men strong.
December 2, 1949 Charles de Gaulle, a hero of the French-Italian war, ordered to Indochina to take command of the forces in the region.

1950
March 29, 1950 Process of vietnamitation of forces serving in Indochina started. By July 1954 close to 50% of French forces fighting the guerillas were Vietnamese soldiers. This was a result of the losses incurred during the French-Italian war, which created a manpower drain in the French forces at the time.
April 8, 1950 Combined United States-Japanese force capture Huk stronghold in Mt Abak. Casualties are heavy but Huk leader captured during operation. General Maxwell Taylor, US commander in theater, praised the performance of the Japanese soldiers and said this event could be the beginning of a closer relationship between both nations.Picture of Japanese and American soldiers jointly raising each other flags made the front page of Times Magazine.


1951
May 1, 1951 The Soviet Union test detonates its first atomic bomb, created mostly from plans stolen from Germany through espionage.
May 8, 1951 Chinese and French officers met to discuss cooperation to eradicate Viet Minh on both side of their borders.
September 9, 1951 Operation Joint Strike started by both the Chinese and French in each other sides of the border. Operation last until the end of November and close to 15,000 enemy men are either killed or captured. With the destruction of the Viet Minh sanctuaries on the other side of the Chinese border the war entered a lull in the tempo of operations until the Viet Minh recovered from the terrible casualties of this operation.
December 8, 1951 With war in the Philippines winding down, the German detachment began embarkation home. The German detachment during the war never was bigger than a couple of close support bomber squadrons and two special civic action groups.

1952
January 3, 1952 League of Nations officially announces their mission to the Philippines to be over. Still Australians troops stayed until May 16th 1952 and Japanese forces until October 10th 1955.
February 6, 1952 Border clashes between Soviet union and China in the Sinking-Soviet border and the Mongolian-Soviet border used by Stalin to launch an invasion of both borders areas. Sino-Soviet War of 1952-53 starts with this action. Stalin gambled that with his very public demonstration that he know possessed the Atomic bomb the League of Nations wasn’t going to risk general war for some territory in the middle of Asia.

1953
March 10, 1953 Treaty of Beijing signed. Republic of China is forced to recognize lost of the province of Sinking to the Soviets and other small territorial concessions on the Mongolian-Chinese border. American President Thomas Dewey response to this treaty was “ that the fear of this new weapon, the atomic bomb, is the only reason the free nations of the world stood idle while this unequal treaty was imposed on the Chinese people.”
August 17, 1953 Mohammad Hatta and Sukarno, just released from prison after serving five years sentences, gave a speech asking the Indonesian people to fight for their freedom and to throw the Dutch out of their country. They immediately went into hiding. This date is considered the start of the Indonesian War of Independence or the Indonesian Insurrection, depending of the point of view.

1954
May 18, 1954 Charles de Gaulle is replaced as commander of the French forces in Indochina and retires from military service soon after to enter politics.
September 22, 1954 The Republic of China and the United Kingdom signed an extension of the lease of the city of Hong Kong that will finally end the British ownership of the city in the year 2050.
September 24, 1954 Secret meeting between Chinese government officials and moderate members of the Viet Minh promises covert support if they tone down their socialist leaning, turn more into a nationalist movement instead of a communist one and get rid of the more radical members of their movemement.

1955
July 5, 1955 Trade and Cooperation Agreement signed by the Republic of China and the Empire of Japan. Chiang victories over the guerillas in his country and over the Viet Minh gave him a false sense of security that came crashing down with the defeat in the war of 1952. Both Japan and his nation considered the Soviet Union the main threat and this treaty is the realization that their best approach was to cooperate.

1957
March 3, 1957 The German A-11 rocket launches the first satellite into orbit. This will be the last great achievement of an independent German Space Program, as spending priorities on domestic programs will not allow further unilateral funding for the very expensive Space program. The German government begins to seek partners for Space exploration.

1958
July 4, 1958 The Republic of Germany, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America pool their resources to launch a joint space initiative, the North Atlantic Space Agency. The Central European Republic and other allied nations soon join the group as junior partners.

1961
October 8, 1961 The Soviet Union shocks the world by sending the first man into orbit. Funding of the North Atlantic Space Agency will increase significantly as the member nations dedicate themselves to putting a base on the moon by 1980.

1969
June 2, 1969 NASA sends the first men to the moon (symbolically, a German, American, and Briton).
August 11, 1969 Germans celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of the Weimar Constitution (date of its announcement).

1979
August 20, 1979 The NASA moon base, a capsule buried under the lunar soil, goes into operation, a year ahead of the deadline set in 1961.

2019
August 11, 2019 Centenial celebration of the Weimar Consitution and the German Republic.

[Glen]

The Unified Timeline of the Weimar World thus far. I think the 20s and 30s are pretty much done. We need to work on the 40s. P99 is working on the Tunisia war, with much thanks. Soon have to make some decisions about the possible lists of US presidents.

1920
March 13, 1920 Reichstag member Wolfgang Kapp makes an impassioned speech on the floor of the Reichstag protesting the end of pay to Freicorps members. He warns that many more actions like this could lead to a nationwide Putsch. (OTL Kapp was one of the leaders of the Kapp Putsch.)
March 14, 1920 Central Schleswig votes over 80% in favor of reunification with Germany.
March 20, 1920 A NSDAP sympathizer within the Reichswehr blows the whistle on up and comer within the party, Adolf Hitler, who is revealed to be a Reichswehr spy.
March 31, 1920 Alleged Reichswehr spy Adolf Hitler mustered out of the Reichswehr, and is reported to return to his native Austria.
April 10, 1920 Government stops paying Freikorps units.
May 9, 1920 Hilter joins the Heimwehr in Austria.
June 20, 1920 Elections for the Reichstag result in significant gains for the DVP and DNVP, minor loses for the SPD. Chancellor Gustav Bauer (SPD) forms a new grand coalition government and reorganizes the cabinet; making Gustav Stresemann (DVP) Foreign Minister.
August 11, 1920 National Disarmament Law takes effect; disbanded civil guards.
August 19, 1920 Second Silesia Uprising, French troops do little to control the situation.

1921
January 16, 1921 Aristide Briand becomes Prime Minister of France, begins shortly thereafter discussions with German Foreign Minister Gustav Stresemann regarding reparations.
March 21, 1921 Plebiscite held in Upper Silesia. They vote to remain part of Germany.
May 3, 1921 Polish forces under Wojciech Korfantry invade Upper Silesia.
May 4, 1921 Stresemann gets Briand’s France to enforce the rule of law in Upper Silesia, the Poles are required to leave.
July 1, 1921 Tentative agreement is reached for more favorable reparation payments by Germany, mostly due to the growing respect between Briand and Stresemann.
July 11, 1921 NSDAP under Anton Drexler votes to join Julius Streicher’s DSP.

1922
January 15, 1922 Stresemann secures loans to German government allowing Reichsmark to be fixed to a gold standard.
April 16, 1922 Treaty of Rapallo signed between Germany and the Soviet Union.
July 21, 1922 High inflation begins in Austria. The gold standard based German Reichsmark is little affected.
October 27, 1922 Benito Mussolini establishes his Fascist dictatorship in Italy.

1923
March 13, 1923 Adolf Hitler, inspired by the example of Benito Mussolini, starts a more political wing of the Heimwehr, centered on the Pan-Germanic faction of the paramilitary group.
June 3, 1923 After new elections for the Reichstag, Gustav Stresemann becomes Chancellor of a center-right coalition government. He retains the portfolio of Foreign Minister.

1924
February 28, 1924 Reichspresident Friedrich Ebert makes first visit of a German head of state to Great Britain since the war.
November 22, 1924 Strasser wing of DSP goes into rebellion over Streicher’s leadership.
December 1, 1924 Locarno Treaty signed.

1925
January 14, 1925 Germany enters the League of Nations.
September 10, 1925 Germany successfully lobbies for a referendum in the Memel region, and they vote in favor of reunification with Germany.
October 3, 1925 Committee announces that the Nobel Peace Prize will be awarded to Austen Chamberlain, Aristide Briand, and Gustav Stresemann for the Locarno treaty.

1926
February 14, 1926 Bamberg conference begins.
April 24, 1926 Germany and Soviet Union sign Berlin Treaty.
June 3, 1926 Friedrich Ebert narrowly wins re-election on the second ballot when the right rallies from a poor showing in the first round by drafting General Paul von Hindenburg as their candidate in the second round.

1927
June 3, 1927 General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck made Army Chief of Staff.
November 9, 1927 Chancellor Stresemann concludes Treaty of Munich with Czechoslovakia formally recognizing the border between Germany and Czechoslovakia in return for concessions to the German minority in the Sudetenland, including recognition of German as an official language of Czechoslovakia and a minimum number of spots in the Czech cabinet for ethnic Germans.

1928
February 3, 1928 The Simon Commission lands in Bombay. The first of many boycotts organized by the Indian National Congress occurs.
October 24, 1928 Chancellor Gustav Stresemann dies of a massive heart attack. Hermann Mueller forms grand coalition government and replaces him as Chancellor.

1929
December 10, 1929 The collapse of the stock exchange in New York City starts a world economic collapse.

1930
March 12 1930 Gandhi starts his march to protest the salt tax law.
June 30, 1930 Hermann Mueller leaves office when his own party (SPD) abandons the coalition. Center right coalition forms with Center party leader Heinrich Bruening as Chancellor.
July 4 1930 Lord Irwin, after meeting with members of the governing Labour Party in London, announces a round table will be created to discuss India’s constitutional progress to achieve Dominion status.
October 24, 1930 Coup d'état in Brazil replaces Washington Luis with populist Gen. Getúlio Vargas. Vargas embarks on a path of social reformism to attempt to reconcile radically diverging interests. Reflecting the influence of the tenentes, he even advocated a program of social welfare and reform with striking parallel to New Deal in the United States. Vargas develops a "a legal hybrid" between the regimes of Mussolini's Italy and Salazar's Portuguese Estado Novo, copying repressive fascist tactics, and conveying their same rejection of liberal capitalism, but attains power baring few indications of his future quasi-fascist polices. With a new constitution drafted with extensive influence from European fascist models, Vargas begins reining in even moderate trade unions and turning against the tenentes. His further concessions to the latifundios pushes him toward an alliance with the Integralists, Brazil's mobilized fascist movement.
November 12 1930 The first round table meetings on India show the differences between the Muslims and the Hindus. The Hindus wanted a strong central government while the Muslims wanted a loose confederation. Also the Sikhs want a Sikh nation in Punjab.

1931
January 12th 1931 The first round table meetings on India end. What emerges is an agreement to safe guard minorities in the constitution and the creation of a weak federal government to appease the Muslim delegates.
March 5 1931 Second round table meetings on India begin. Gandhi misses the meetings due to health reasons and the Congress representatives agree on the basis of a communal settlement for India. On the return to India of the delegates, Gandhi disavows their actions in London. This divides the Indian National Congress party. The Gandhi faction starts civil disobedience but the division of their party shows they are not the representatives of the whole Indian people.
June 1, 1931 Three million unemployed reported in Germany.
June 20, 1931 Herbert Hoover puts moratorium on reparations.
August 11, 1931 Austrian Kreditanstalt collapses.
September 13, 1931 The German bank crisis occurs.
September 20, 1931 Alfred Hugenberg made leader of DNVP by narrow margin.
October 11, 1931 Attempts to form a coalition between DNVP, Stahlhelm, DSP, and the Strasser splinter group fail. DNVP decides to stay in the government for the time being.

1932

March 5, 1932 Julius Streicher, leader of the DSP, high profile arrest on obsenity and perversion charges. The trial stretching through much of 1932 is a nadir for the far right.
April 20, 1932 Darkhorse candidate Carl Friedrich Goerdeler successfully challenges Alfred Hugenberg for leadership of the DNVP. Vows the DNVP will stay the course with the current government.
December 25, 1932 Constitutional rule is restored in Chile. Arturo Fortunato Alessandri Palma, a member of the Liberal Party, becomes president of Chile, serving until 1938.

1933
March 31, 1933 A conservative coup d’etat topples the socialist government of Uruguay. The socialist reform leaders are either assassinated or fled into exile, and a Conservative dictatorship begins. The Colorado party turns further to the left during the dictatorship years.
April 10, 1933 Friedrich Ebert loses badly in the second round of elections against center right consensus candidate and war hero Reichswehr Chief of Staff Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck. Former President Ebert in his concession speech calls for a peaceful transition, which by and large happens.
August 5 1933 The Government of India Act of 1933 announced and will be implemented by 1935.
August 7, 1933 DNVP leader Carl Friedrich Goerdeler becomes Chancellor of Germany.
October 23, 1933 Letter from Ludwig Erhard regarding economic reform so impresses Chancellor Goerdeler that he brings the man onto his staff as an advisor.

1934
February 12, 1934 Kummersdorf becomes the base for military rocket research.
March 21, 1934 Adolf Hitler’s Heimwehr faction begins a civil war after refusing to join Engelbert Dolfuss’s Fatherland Front (clerical faction of the Heimwehr joins the Fatherland Front, but is in the minority due to the recruitment efforts of the Charismatic Hitler). Several extremist volunteers from both Germany and Czechoslovakia swarm over the border to join the conflict in the early days. Socialists in Vienna take advantage of the chaos and take over the capitol, but can’t make progress very far from the city. With the onset of the Austrian Civil War, Albert Einstein leaves Austria, immigrating to Germany.
May 5, 1934 League of Nations declares a weapons embargo of all sides in the Austrian Civil War, which is promptly violated by both the Soviets and Italians. The Italians are secretly sending aid to both the Hitler and Dolfuss factions.
July 2, 1934 Former General Paul von Hindenburg dies, and Germany is thrown into a state of mourning that rivals that after the death of Chancellor Stresemann.
July 16, 1934 A new constitution is enacted in Brazil. The Vargas government claims that the corporatist provisions of the constitution of 1934 will unite all classes in mutual interests—its stated purpose (but not always actual) in Fascist Italy.
1935
January 13, 1935 Saarland votes over 90% to reunite with Germany.
May 20, 1935 Under pressure from Great Britain and with worsening economic problems domestically, France acquiesces to ‘limited’ German rearmament. Afterward, the rapid ‘development’ of the Reichswehr makes previous German covert rearming apparent, but the Great Powers turn a blind eye to this.
June 3, 1935 Brazilian politics has been drastically destabilized. Vargas' attention focuses on the rise of two nationally based and highly ideological European-style movements, both committed to European-style mass-mobilization: one pro-Communist and the other pro-fascist—one linked to Moscow and the other to Rome.
July 8, 1935 The Dominion of India is created. Subhas Bose is named Prime Minister with Mohammed Ali Jinnah as second in command. An Indian parliament is created but British institutions and borders are maintained for the time being. The Indian National Party reunifies but they admit their failure in getting the support of the Muslims, but the two rival parties made impossible the continued existence of this arrangement.
August 30, 1935 Token military force enters the Rhineland. The French government proclaims this as a great victory as the German force is not even enough to defend the Rhineland, much less threaten France. The German government point to this as the full restoration of German sovereignty and the return of Germany as a full member of the international family of nations.
October 3, 1935 Italian troops invade Abyssinia.
November 13, 1935 While the Austrian civil war has so far accomplished little except have several notable extremists of the age die gloriously in battle, Hitler makes a bold speech by radio from an undisclosed location, calling for the unification of Germans in Germany and Czechoslovakia with Austria. The speech is only heard in the local area of the broadcast.

1936
May 30, 1936 Italy annexes Abyssinia after a year long war which includes the use of mustard gas. By the end of June, after League condemnation of the annexation, Italy leaves the League of Nations.
July 10, 1936 The Spanish Civil War begins.
September 1, 1936 ‘Red’ Vienna falls to a Fatherland Front attack to regain the capital, but Hitler’s faction then attacks the exsanguinated forces of Dolfuss; the city will be a divided war-zone for the rest of the conflict.
August 16, 1936 Closing Ceremonies of the 1936 Berlin Olympics. The event is a showcase of the German Republic. President Lettow-Vorbeck hosted a number of his former Askari in Berlin, allowed by London to travel from Tanzania for the event. Later, a photo in Time magazine of the German President congratulating Jesse Owens with the Askari at his side leads the KKK in the American South to denounce the German leader.
September 20, 1936 Germany and the West, fed up with the chaos in Austria and now civil war in Spain, agree to allow German intervention in Austria. With the knock-out of the Socialists from the war, French Prime Minister Leon Blum sees little reason to hinder a Republican Germany from intervening, as the success of either of the remaining two factions would be undesirable. German troops stream over the border and overall are greeted as saviors by the war weary Austrians.
October 21, 1936 Hitler, rather than surrendering, commits suicide in his hideout in the mountains. Nearly all the Dolfuss and Hitler faction forces have surrendered to the rapidly advancing Germans, often without a fight. The few die-hard units are quickly dispatched by the Reichswehr. Dolfuss retires from politicis.
December 9, 1936 After a few months of diplomacy, Italy acquiesces to German occupation and a vote on Anschluss after the German government agrees to recognize the possession of the South Tyrol by Italy.

1937
February 14, 1937 The Austrians hold a referendum overwhelmingly supporting unification with Germany. Though the Treaty of Saint Germaine forbade Austria from political or economic union with Germany, Germany points out that they were not party to that agreement, and that the Austrian government had essentially ceased to exist. World sentiment seems to favor the unification.
March 15, 1937 Stalin, concerned about the close ties that developed between Soviet military officers and the Germans during the years of cooperation in the 1920s, launches a purge of the Red Army that will last the year, essentially crippling the Red Army for the next several years.
March 9, 1937 Completion of move of military rocket research to Peenemünde (on the recommendation of Werner von Braun). Kummersdorf converted over to military applications of atomic research, involving not only several German physicists, but also many Hungarian scientists who have immigrated to Germany to escape the repressive regime in Hungary.
April 12, 1937 Italy and Hungary form a mutual defense pact, called the Rome-Budapest Axis by Mussolini.
July 24, 1937 Germany proposes in the League of Nations a referendum on Danzig and the Polish Corridor. Poland at first is against the idea.
August 20, 1937 Poland, thinking they could win a referendum that includes both the Kassubian populated Polish corridor and the German Danzig, and noting that a significant portion of the Reichswehr is still in Austria, gamble and announce their willingness for the vote to happen, but that it must occur by mid September. Germany agrees.
September 10, 1937 Less than a week before the Polish Corridor referendum, the Reichstag approves sweeping minority rights legislation. This will be the keystone to a wave of radio broadcast German campaign to win over Kashubians to the German Republic. Emphasis is also placed in the broadcasts on Sorbs, another Slavic group living within the Republic who have done well, as well as making distinction between the Kashubians and the Poles.
September 15, 1937 The Polish Corridor referendum, though fraught with fraud on both sides, shows a majority in favor of unification with the German Republic. Very high turnout in Danzig is one factor; another is the substantial minority of Kashubian voters who also vote for unification with Germany. While the German minority legislation and 11th hour campaign are believed to have been important factors, most historians believe the deciding factors were actually the stability in recent years of the German government and their substantially better economic performance during the Great Depression than most nations in Europe and indeed the world.
September 16, 1937 When the result of the referendum starts to become clear, Poland repudiates it as rigged and begins to move troops into the region as a ‘stabilizing measure’. However, within hours of the Polish actions, heavy German troop movement is reported all along the border with Germany, many being identified as troops believed to be in Austria, and even the Czechs appear to be mobilizing. Fearing a general invasion is about to occur, Marshal Edward Rydz-Śmigły begins to redeploy troops to hold off a large scale invasion and protect the capitol and key industrial centers.
September 17, 1937 In the predawn hours the Germans strike as expected in the Polish Corridor, but in an unexpected manner. Paratroops land throughout the narrow corridor, within the lines of the Polish forces in the region. The surprise move throws the Polish forces there into disarray, which then is taken advantage of by German troops moving in from Germany proper and East Germany. The German Chancellor announces that the intention of the Germans is to only enforce the will of the people in the recent referendum. Rydz-Śmigły refuses offers of assistance from the Soviets.
September 25, 1937 The leaders of France and Great Britain meet with the Germans in Hamburg to discuss the Polish Crisis. By this time, Polish troops have been expelled from the narrow Polish Corridor, allowing the formation of a continuous defensive line between now linked East Prussia and the rest of Germany. Despite Marshal Rydz-Śmigły’s continued belief that the Germans will launch a full out assault, the Germans and Czechs have taken up defensive positions only and no further incursions into Poland have occurred. The entire threatened invasion was an enormous bluff playing on Polish fears which tied down the bulk of their battle ready troops. After personal assurances by President Lettow-Vorbeck himself, the British and French agree to support the annexation of the Polish Corridor to Germany in return for Germany finally accepting the rest of their Eastern border with Poland and allowing liberal access through to the Baltic for Polish businesses. With no support from the West, and fear of the Soviets, the Poles feel no choice but to tacitly accept what they refer to as ‘the selling out of Poland’.
October 1, 1937 Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain returns in triumph to London announcing that they shall have ‘peace in our time’ and that ‘President Lettow-Vorbeck is an honorable man who we may trust to keep his word, both for himself and his nation’.
November 10, 1937 Vargas, ruling by decree, makes a broadcast to the people of Brazil in which he states his plans to assume dictatorial powers under the second new constitution of his regime derived from European fascist models, thereby curtailing presidential elections (his ultimate objections) and dissolving congress.
November 17, 1937 Under the Estado Novo, the Brazilian state announces an ambitious Five-Year Plan whose goals included the expansion of heavy industry, the creation of new sources of hydroelectric power, and the expansion of the railway network to develop Brazil's capital base. Empirical data will confirm that Vargas is advancing the bourgeois revolution, at least to an extent.


1938
May 1, 1938 On a date possibly chosen for irony, then nations of Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Germany, and Czechoslovakia announce a Northern European Alliance to defend against Communism, the Soviets particularly, and other threats to their nations. Quietly, Great Britain has given assurances of support for the group as well.
July 14, 1938 First jet airplane flight occurs at Heinkel Field.
September 5, 1938 Aware of the need of modern industry for abundant sources of power, Brazilian leader Vargas creates the National Petroleum Company to search for oil.
December 25, 1938 Pedro Aguirre Cerda of the Popular Front is elected president of Chile. He implements education reforms, but dies in 1941 while in office.

1939
January 13, 1939 Nuclear Fission discovered by Otto Hahn, Lise Meitner and coworkers at the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Institute for Chemistry in Berlin.
February 9, 1939 Bulgaria joins the Axis ‘Pact of Steel’ with Italy and Hungary.
April 17, 1939 Italy attacks Albania, taking control of the small nation in the name of King Victor Emmanuel III.
June 23, 1939 The Nationalists have taken Madrid, and Franco declares victory, becoming the Fascist dictator of Spain.
November 4, 1939 Start of the Yugoslavian Crisis. Italy, Hungary, and Bulgaria invade Yugoslavia, threatening to completely partition the country. Within days Yugoslavia stands on the brink of collapse. German forces in German Austria mobilize all along the border, and the British demand that the Italians meet for mediation.
October 1, 1939 The Trieste Conference results in Italy and her allies being forced by Germany and the UK to accept token concessions (mostly some Dalmatian coast and islands for Italy, and strips of adjacent land to the borders of Hungary and Bulgaria, though overall Yugoslavia will be spared from disassembly).

1940
January 14, 1940 Brazil's manufacturing output has increased substantially over the decade, but coffee production has declined. As a result, to further placate the forces of the old order, the government between 1934-37 and under the Estado Novo also has invested considerably in the expansion of coffee production. Coffee is also the principal foreign exchange export earner.
May 12, 1940 Presidential and Reichstag elections held. President Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck in his second election becomes the first President of the Republic to win a majority on the first ballot. With the addition of Catholic Austria to the Republic, the Center party and its allied minor parties are winners as well, and the new Center Party leader Konrad Adenauer becomes Chancellor of Germany (though still in a center-right coalition government).
September 1, 1940 Hungary launches a war against Romania over Transylvania. Their allies the Bulgarians simultaneously attack into Dobruja.
September 24, 1940 The Romanians were doing well against the Italian supported Hungarians and Bulgarians when the Soviets launch a surprise action into Bessarabia. Shortly thereafter, the Romanians are forced to cede Bessarabia to the Soviets in order to save their nation from them and return their attentions to the Hungarians and Bulgarians.
October 24, 1940 Much progress has been made in Brazil since Vargas came to power ten years ago. Cement production increases to 700,000 tons from 87,000 tons in October 24, 1930. Brazil's capacity for electricity generation reachs 1 million kilowatts, of which 60 percent was located in the São Paulo area, primarily due to the construction of hydroelectric power stations. Iron and steel output went up to 150,000 tons in 1939-40. The number of manufacturing enterprises more than double during the decade leading up to this date, reaching 50,000. Factories in the São Paulo area employ 35 percent of the industrial labor force and generate 43 percent of the value of industrial production. Aside from the export of textiles, the manufacturing industries serve the domestic market almost exclusively. Brazil has 44,100 plants employing 944,000 workers; the comparable figure for December 31, 1920 was 13,336 plants with about 300,000 workers.
November 5, 1940 Arthur Vandenberg elected President of the United States of America.

1941
February 19, 1941 Communist activist Ho Chi Minh returns to Vietnam after 30 years in exile and organizes a nationalist organization named the Viet Minh.
June 1, 1941 As relations with Japan remain strained, and Europe seems more risky, Stalin begins secret military build up on the Manchurian-Soviet and the Mongolian-Manchurian border, with Sergei Zhukov in command.
July 30, 1941 By the end of the month 30 Russian divisions are in the Far East, the Soviets have an advantage 2:1 in men, 4:1 in tanks and vehicles and 3:1 in aircrafts.
August 9th 1941 The Second Russo-Japanese war starts. The Soviets launch a two front attack with the city of Harbin as their first goal.
August 12, 1941 At the Battle of Vladivostsk, the Soviet Far East Fleet’s attempt to escape is foiled and the majority of the fleet is destroyed.
August 16th 1941 Peruvian forces capture Cuenca after heavy fighting. Both sides are exhausted and both sides agree a cease-fire. But secret pledges by the Colombian government that they will join the conflict helps the Ecuadorians to break the cease fire on September 10th 1941 after the arrival of Colombian “volunteers” and weapons.
August 18, 1941 The Sakalin campaign launched by the Japanese.
September 26th 1941 Ecuadorian counter offensive recaptures Cuenca. Peru prepares for a final offensive to try to end the conflict.
October 10th 1941 Coastal offensive started by Peru.
November 3, 1941 The Sakalin campaign ends with a combined army-marine Japanese effort successfully conquering the northern half of the island.
November 16, 1941 Due to the terrain and stubborn Japanese resistance it is not until the middle of November that Soviets reach Harbin. The siege of Harbin begins.
November 21, 1941 Czechoslovakia formally changes its name to the Central European Republic.
December 7th 1941 Guayaquil falls to Peruvian army. Peru sends terms of surrender to Ecuador. Ecuador after consideration and further promises by Colombia refuses. A December ceasefire agreed by both sides, in reality both sides are exhausted.
December 20, 1941 The Hungarians and Bulgarians give up their attempts at Romania and withdraw to the 1940 borders.
December 24, 1941 An informal ceasefire due to weather conditions has set in and both sides consolidate their positions.

1942
February 8, 1942 Ecuadorian counter offensive starts in attempt to recapture Guayaquil, casualties mount especially between Colombian volunteers. The offensive is called off on March 2nd 1942 after failing in their objectives.
February 9, 1942 Peruvian counter offensive starts in an attempt to recapture Cuenca. With majority of enemy forces facing Guayaquil the city falls by February 21st 1942.
February 15, 1942 President Baldomir dissolves the General Assembly in Montevideo and asks the opposition parties to join in defeating the military. Uruguay Civil War starts. Colorado Party changes name to Uruguayan Communist Party.
February 24, 1942 The ceasefire comes to an end when the Japanese begin their effort to relieve Harbin.
March 9, 1942 The Harbin relief effort collapses for the Japanese. Japanese inflict severe losses upon the Soviets in this attack but fail in their objective.
March 11, 1942 Ecuador accepts terms of Peru. Peru gains all disputed territory plus El Oro province.
March 17, 1942 Harbin falls to the Soviets. A Japanese offer of peace in exchange for accepting Soviet border claims in Manchuria is rejected.
April 1, 1942 The Deep Thrust; Soviet forces, finally in better terrain than the northern part of Manchuria launch a combined arms operation to destroy the Japanese presence in Manchuria.
April 12, 1942 Liberal leader Jorge Eliezer Gaitan asks for the resignation of the current Colombian government. He blamed them for the thousands of casualties incurred during the just ended conflict and the economic chaos the nation was suffering. The lower classes, from were the majority of the casualties came from and the ones suffering more of the slow recovery from the Depression, flock to him especially in the cities.
April 23, 1942 India is divided into a loose confederation of Hindu majority provinces, Muslim majority ones, and the Sikh Azaz Punjab. Each province is governed with a high degree of autonomy except for foreign affairs, communications, defense, and finances needed for nationwide affairs. The central government is located in Delhi. There was some opposition by all sides to this final arrangement but after some violence it was accepted; it was this or the dismembering of India.
May 1, 1942 Gandhi assassinated by a disgruntled INC fanatic.
May 15 1942 Ceasefire agreement between Japan and Nationalist Chinese allows Japan to move more forces to face the Soviets.
May 20, 1942 Eliezer Gaitan assassinated while giving speech in Bogota. Start of the Colombian Civil War. Liberal sympathizers take to the streets to fight government forces.
May 29, 1942 Liberal forces capture Bogota. Alfonso Lopez Pumarejo declared President by the Liberals. Incumbent President Eduardo Santos flees to Cartagena and asks for international recognition of his cabinet as the true government of Colombia.
June 3, 1942 The Brazilian government establishes the Companhia Vale do Rio Doce to exploit the rich iron-ore deposits of Itabira.
June 6, 1942 The largest air battle ever seen is fought on this day. Both sides claim victory, but it appears to be a narrow victory for the Soviets through the sheer number of Soviet planes, not by technical or equipment advantages of which they have none; the Japanese machines are superior and Japanese pilots are about even in quality.
June 18 1942 Two Soviet tank divisions fight an ad-hoc formation equivalent to a reinforced armored brigade near Mukden. The Soviets have mostly T-26s, but with a considerable number of T-34s as well; the Japanese have Type 95 tanks. After the Soviet victory, the Japanese recognize the failure of their tank designs and begin searching abroad for new models.
July 12, 1942 The Japanese have been expelled from most of Manchuria and forced to a defensive line on the Yalu River.
July 28, 1942 Nationalist China refuses to let Japanese forces in China attack north, threatening to end the ceasefire agreement if the Japanese attack the Soviets from Chinese soil.
August 10, 1942 After a lull of one month to recover, the Soviets begin their offensive into Korea.
September 14, 1942 Uruguayan Civil War ends. Communist Party wins and declares the People’s Republic of Uruguay. While neutral, this nation turns into a sanctuary for communist sympathizers from Argentina and neighboring countries. Inmediatly recognized by the Soviet Union.
October 7, 1942 The Japanese evacuation of the Liounyan Peninsula culminates with the destruction of the Port Arthur facilities.
November 25, 1942 Juan Antonio Ríos Morales, a member of the Radical Party, is elected president of Chile.
December 31, 1942 The Japanese front is a line anchored by Wonsan and running from there west. Japanese offers of peace (Manchuria to the Soviets, Korea to the Japanese) are considered by Stalin, but rejected.

1943
March 23, 1943 The first jet fighter is developed by RLM using engine design of Anselm Franz.
April 6, 1943 The Japanese launch their counter-offensive. The slow grinding Soviet offensive has been continual throughout the year, but with the arrival of Japanese forces from China and the Japanese shorter supply lines the Soviet casualties are finally beginning to be felt. The Soviet push into Korea has bogged down. With Japan still controlling the seas, it has become a slow, grinding fight all the way down the peninsula, as the Soviets have to take on every fortified pass. The mountainous terrain also does much to negate the Soviet armor advantage. The Japanese actually gain ground and recapture Seoul.
May 13, 1943 The military ousts Argentina's constitutional government.
June 18 1943 After mediation by the United States, the Second Russo-Japanese War ends when Stalin accepts the last Japanese offer of borders drawn based on the front lines. Manchuria will become the People’s Republic of Manchuria under Mao Tse Tong, but with Soviet troops stationed there guaranteeing they remain within the Soviet sphere. North Korea too becomes a Communist satellite of the USSR. Japan, bled dry by the war, also formalizes the ceasefire with Nationalist China.
August 5, 1943 Vargas announces for Brazil a twelve year plan for growth into the interior. To distance himself from the newly defeated Mussolini he begins to go back to some of his left-centre ideologies. The opening of Southern Brazil for homesteading, a more open stance on immigration, and land reforms are key points to his plan. Vargas opens the frontier by opening forts and oil towns around the west and south.
September 20, 1943 In the wake of the Japanese performance in the Second Russo-Japaneses war, the Emperor dismisses the militarists and installs more democratically minded ministers.
October 28, 1943 Axis powers launch a surprise invasion of Greece. Bulgaria hit a wall from the very beginning but Italy made some minimal gains before also being stopped.
November 21, 1943 the Greeks, with secret shipment of weapons from the British coming from Egypt, launches a counter offensive that recaptures most of the lost territory.
December 1, 1943 Great Britain and the Northern European Alliance send a demarche to the Axis powers to withdraw to their borders or a state of war will exist between them. The Axis received 72 hours to comply. Europe is on the brink of a major war.
December 2, 1943 Armed forces of the Northern European Alliance begin to mobilize. Axis nations’ leaders meet in an emergency meeting in Rome.
December 3, 1943 Axis begins withdrawing from Greece. German President Lettow-Vorbeck announces this as a victory for the democracies of Europe. He also states that the Balkans are not a playfield that could be trampled on by the fascist nations and invites both Turkey and Greece to join their European Alliance.

1944
January 7, 1944 The A-4 rocket has its first successful launch at Peenemünde.
February 7, 1944 Turkey asks for membership of the Northern European Alliance. With borders with both communists and fascists they consider this their best course of action.
February 21, 1944 Greece asks for membership to the Northern European Alliance. With their pre-Greek crisis neutrality stance shot to bits by the actions of the Axis they decide like the Turkish government that their best course of action was to join the Northern European Alliance.
June 5, 1944 Brazil creates a company for the production of materials needed by the chemical industry.
November 7, 1944 President Vandenberg wins re-election in the USA.

1945
September 21, 1945 End of the severe famine due to drought near Hanoi and surrounding areas kills close to one million people but more are saved by a League of Nations effort to help the people in the area. However, Ho Chi Minh uses this drought to recruit members for his movement.
December 23, 1945 Ho Chi Minh launches their first large-scale attack against the French. By now the Viet Minh are 30,000 strong and the numbers continue to grow.

1946

January 15, 1946 Conservative Eduardo Cruz-Coke Lassabe is elected president of Chile.
February 20, 1946 Perón is victorious in Argentine elections. He aggressively pursues policies aimed at giving an economic and political voice to the working class and greatly expanding the number of unionized workers.
June 3, 1946 the National Motor Company begins the production of trucks.
August 14, 1946 Dictator Vargas of Brazil sees the realization of one of his cherished dreams; The National Steel Company begins production at the Volta Redonda plant between Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo.
August 26, 1946 Philippines awarded their independence by the United States; a very peaceful transition from Commonwealth to Republic.
August 29, 1946 Start of communist guerilla campaign in China. Chiang accuses the Soviet and the Republic of Manchuria of aiding the rebels, charges they deny.
September 27, 1946 Communist forces capture Xian. Evidence of heavy artillery and crew served weapons verified by foreign witnesses.
October 18, 1946 US President Arthur Vandenberg pledge his support to the government of the Republic of China. Loans are granted to purchase newer equipment to fight the communist aggression.

1947
January 14, 1947 Communist insurrection started in Luzon Island by a group later know as the Huks.
February 4, 1947 President Lettow-Vorbeck announces that he will not seek re-election to the Presidency.
March 13, 1947 Communist strikes on the Japanese port of Osaka and other major ports turns violent. Troops called to break the disturbances. Japanese Communist Party outlawed as a result. Emergency powers given to Admiral Yamamoto to rule Japan until the Communist menace is eliminated.
April 20, 1947 The first successful test detonation of an atomic bomb performed by Germany.
June 20, 1947 In the second dual Presidential and Reichstag elections, the SPD candidate, senior statesman Otto Braun wins the presidency on the second ballot. SPD leader Erich Ollenhauer becomes Chancellor of a center-left coalition government. He and UK Labour Government Prime Minister Clement Attlee would come to work closely together over the years.

1948
March 29, 1948 Werner von Braun becomes head of the new civilian German Space Agency he has lobbied for years to have formed.
April 8, 1948 Admiral Yamamoto announces the Emergency is over and elections will be held on June 8th 1948 to elect a new Prime Minister. The Japanese communist movement has been stamped out. With their leader dead, jailed or gone into exile the movement is effectively dead.
June 12, 1948 Mohammed Hatta and Sukarno ask the Dutch Government in a letter published in Batavia to began a process of gradual independence to Indonesia. Both are jailed for sedition.
October 5, 1948 Japan is accepted back as a member of the League of Nations after Admiral Yamamoto put in a request for admittance as one of his last officials acts as de facto ruler of Japan.

1949
February 7, 1949 With Huk influence now covering more than ¾ of the island of Luzon, the Philippines government ask the League of Nations for help in stamping this rebellion. Japan pledge air support and two SNLF brigades to help defeating the rebellion. Australia, New Zealand, Great Britain and Germany also pledge their support but in a smaller scale than Japan.
February 11, 1949 President Robert Taft, worried by how much the League and especially Japan can extend their influence over Philippines, also offer help in the form of air support, loans for the purchase of weapons and a mix Marine-Army Task Force comprised of forces already stationed in Hawaii and the West Coast of the United States.
August 14, 1949 The last British forces leave India except for the ones in the Calcutta naval station, the airbase near Bombay, and sundry other bases necessary for the defense of the Commonwealth.
October 2, 1949 The Reichstag passes an amendment to have the Presidential election go to a run-off if there is no majority winner in the first round.
October 4, 1949 Chinese Communist stronghold in Yennan falls to Nationalist Army. End of organized communist resistance in China. While low-level guerilla warfare will continue the threat of a Communist insurrection achieving their goal of defeating Chiang’s government is considered over.
November 1, 1949 The guerilla war in Vietnam continues with no end in sight. By now the Viet Minh is close to 45,000 men strong.
December 2, 1949 Charles de Gaulle, a hero of the French-Italian war, ordered to Indochina to take command of the forces in the region.

1950
March 29, 1950 Process of vietnamitation of forces serving in Indochina started. By July 1954 close to 50% of French forces fighting the guerillas were Vietnamese soldiers. This was a result of the losses incurred during the French-Italian war, which created a manpower drain in the French forces at the time.
April 8, 1950 Combined United States-Japanese force capture Huk stronghold in Mt Abak. Casualties are heavy but Huk leader captured during operation. General Maxwell Taylor, US commander in theater, praised the performance of the Japanese soldiers and said this event could be the beginning of a closer relationship between both nations.Picture of Japanese and American soldiers jointly raising each other flags made the front page of Times Magazine.


1951
May 1, 1951 The Soviet Union test detonates its first atomic bomb, created mostly from plans stolen from Germany through espionage.
May 8, 1951 Chinese and French officers met to discuss cooperation to eradicate Viet Minh on both side of their borders.
September 9, 1951 Operation Joint Strike started by both the Chinese and French in each other sides of the border. Operation last until the end of November and close to 15,000 enemy men are either killed or captured. With the destruction of the Viet Minh sanctuaries on the other side of the Chinese border the war entered a lull in the tempo of operations until the Viet Minh recovered from the terrible casualties of this operation.
December 8, 1951 With war in the Philippines winding down, the German detachment began embarkation home. The German detachment during the war never was bigger than a couple of close support bomber squadrons and two special civic action groups.

1952
January 3, 1952 League of Nations officially announces their mission to the Philippines to be over. Still Australians troops stayed until May 16th 1952 and Japanese forces until October 10th 1955.
February 6, 1952 Border clashes between Soviet union and China in the Sinking-Soviet border and the Mongolian-Soviet border used by Stalin to launch an invasion of both borders areas. Sino-Soviet War of 1952-53 starts with this action. Stalin gambled that with his very public demonstration that he know possessed the Atomic bomb the League of Nations wasn’t going to risk general war for some territory in the middle of Asia.

1953
March 10, 1953 Treaty of Beijing signed. Republic of China is forced to recognize lost of the province of Sinking to the Soviets and other small territorial concessions on the Mongolian-Chinese border. American President Thomas Dewey response to this treaty was “ that the fear of this new weapon, the atomic bomb, is the only reason the free nations of the world stood idle while this unequal treaty was imposed on the Chinese people.”
August 17, 1953 Mohammad Hatta and Sukarno, just released from prison after serving five years sentences, gave a speech asking the Indonesian people to fight for their freedom and to throw the Dutch out of their country. They immediately went into hiding. This date is considered the start of the Indonesian War of Independence or the Indonesian Insurrection, depending of the point of view.

1954
May 18, 1954 Charles de Gaulle is replaced as commander of the French forces in Indochina and retires from military service soon after to enter politics.
September 22, 1954 The Republic of China and the United Kingdom signed an extension of the lease of the city of Hong Kong that will finally end the British ownership of the city in the year 2050.
September 24, 1954 Secret meeting between Chinese government officials and moderate members of the Viet Minh promises covert support if they tone down their socialist leaning, turn more into a nationalist movement instead of a communist one and get rid of the more radical members of their movemement.

1955
July 5, 1955 Trade and Cooperation Agreement signed by the Republic of China and the Empire of Japan. Chiang victories over the guerillas in his country and over the Viet Minh gave him a false sense of security that came crashing down with the defeat in the war of 1952. Both Japan and his nation considered the Soviet Union the main threat and this treaty is the realization that their best approach was to cooperate.

1957
March 3, 1957 The German A-11 rocket launches the first satellite into orbit. This will be the last great achievement of an independent German Space Program, as spending priorities on domestic programs will not allow further unilateral funding for the very expensive Space program. The German government begins to seek partners for Space exploration.

1958
July 4, 1958 The Republic of Germany, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the United States of America pool their resources to launch a joint space initiative, the North Atlantic Space Agency. The Central European Republic and other allied nations soon join the group as junior partners.

1961
October 8, 1961 The Soviet Union shocks the world by sending the first man into orbit. Funding of the North Atlantic Space Agency will increase significantly as the member nations dedicate themselves to putting a base on the moon by 1980.

1969
June 2, 1969 NASA sends the first men to the moon (symbolically, a German, American, and Briton).
August 11, 1969 Germans celebrate the fiftieth anniversary of the Weimar Constitution (date of its announcement).

1979
August 20, 1979 The NASA moon base, a capsule buried under the lunar soil, goes into operation, a year ahead of the deadline set in 1961.

2019
August 11, 2019 Centenial celebration of the Weimar Consitution and the German Republic.

[luakel]

The Unified Timeline of the Weimar World thus far. I think the 20s and 30s are pretty much done. We need to work on the 40s. P99 is working on the Tunisia war, with much thanks. Soon have to make some decisions about the possible lists of US presidents.

I could help with the presidents, if you guys would have me.

[Othniel]

1946

January 15, 1946 Conservative Eduardo Cruz-Coke Lassabe is elected president of Chile.
February 20, 1946 Perón is victorious in Argentine elections. He aggressively pursues policies aimed at giving an economic and political voice to the working class and greatly expanding the number of unionized workers.
June 3, 1946 the National Motor Company begins the production of trucks.
August 14, 1946 Dictator Vargas of Brazil sees the realization of one of his cherished dreams; The National Steel Company begins production at the Volta Redonda plant between Rio de Janeiro and São Paulo.
August 26, 1946 Philippines awarded their independence by the United States; a very peaceful transition from Commonwealth to Republic.
August 29, 1946 Start of communist guerilla campaign in China. Chiang accuses the Soviet and the Republic of Manchuria of aiding the rebels, charges they deny.
September 27, 1946 Communist forces capture Xian. Evidence of heavy artillery and crew served weapons verified by foreign witnesses.
October 18, 1946 US President Arthur Vandenberg pledge his support to the government of the Republic of China. Loans are granted to purchase newer equipment to fight the communist aggression.

1947
January 14, 1947 Communist insurrection started in Luzon Island by a group later know as the Huks.
February 4, 1947 President Lettow-Vorbeck announces that he will not seek re-election to the Presidency.
March 13, 1947 Communist strikes on the Japanese port of Osaka and other major ports turns violent. Troops called to break the disturbances. Japanese Communist Party outlawed as a result. Emergency powers given to Admiral Yamamoto to rule Japan until the Communist menace is eliminated.
April 20, 1947 The first successful test detonation of an atomic bomb performed by Germany.
June 20, 1947 In the second dual Presidential and Reichstag elections, the SPD candidate, senior statesman Otto Braun wins the presidency on the second ballot. SPD leader Erich Ollenhauer becomes Chancellor of a center-left coalition government. He and UK Labour Government Prime Minister Clement Attlee would come to work closely together over the years.

1948
March 29, 1948 Werner von Braun becomes head of the new civilian German Space Agency he has lobbied for years to have formed.
April 8, 1948 Admiral Yamamoto announces the Emergency is over and elections will be held on June 8th 1948 to elect a new Prime Minister. The Japanese communist movement has been stamped out. With their leader dead, jailed or gone into exile the movement is effectively dead.
June 12, 1948 Mohammed Hatta and Sukarno ask the Dutch Government in a letter published in Batavia to began a process of gradual independence to Indonesia. Both are jailed for sedition.
October 5, 1948 Japan is accepted back as a member of the League of Nations after Admiral Yamamoto put in a request for admittance as one of his last officials acts as de facto ruler of Japan.

Now if Vandenburg has handled the depression well, being rather sucessful in the pacific for that matter, these are the two years that will matter in detriming the President-elect, 1948. From the last two or three years whom do you think presented themselves the most capable and least pissed off the party to gain the Republician nomination? Who do you think would rise to be possible advocates for the democrats? There are no generals of promence to deal with this...

It's getting back to normal and turning towards prosperty, so I think the Republicians get elected in, although depending on whom they put forward. For example I think Dewey remains an isolationist without WW2 and that works well for the Republician party in this case. By this point he is going to be a popular face and will most likely be up for nomination. Therefore I nominate Thomas Dewey for president 1948.

[luakel]

Therefore I nominate Thomas Dewey for president 1948.
I think that it's been decided that Taft will become pres. in '48, but that he'll be killed on 1950, so Dewey will still become president.

[Othniel]

I think that it's been decided that Taft will become pres. in '48, but that he'll be killed on 1950, so Dewey will still become president.
I don't think Taft would become President. He's not appealing to a wide basis.

[luakel]

Taft has already been mentioned as president below:

February 11, 1949 President Robert Taft, worried by how much the League and especially Japan can extend their influence over Philippines, also offer help in the form of air support, loans for the purchase of weapons and a mix Marine-Army Task Force comprised of forces already stationed in Hawaii and the West Coast of the United States.

[Othniel]

Taft has already been mentioned as president below:That's not concrete.

[luakel]

That's not concrete.
What's so wrong with Taft being president? He was very popular, and he was actually better with the public than Dewey was. Dewey was an honest, but still gruff, cop from NYC, Taft was the friendly "Mr. Republican" from the Heartland.

[perdedor99]

Tunisian War/also called French-Italian War and a little aftermath:

March 2nd 1944- Border dispute on Tunisian-Libyan border. Small casualties on both sides. Mussolini asks for an apology from the French government, even when his troops were the ones that stray into French territory.

March 9th 1944-Secret buildup of Italian forces in Libya is started under the guise of a military exercise.

April 4th 1944- Italian forces cross into Tunisia in force. While overall the French border fortifications resisted the onslaught, breakthroughs by Italian forces forced the French to abandon the border fortifications and withdrew north on the 7th.

April 13th 1944- Italian forces capture Gabes. French offer cease-fire to discuss border adjustments. But Mussolini refuses out of hand and dreams of pushing the French out of Tunisia altogether and of even greater ones.

April/June 1944- Italian forces continued their advance in Tunisia while French fought a defensive strategy while moving forces into the theater. The Italian advance to the interior in the direction of the Kasserine Pass bogged down but the city of Sfax was captured the 4th of June. Italians have the initiative on all theaters during this period.

April 18th 1944- A motorized corps is organized in France, composed of the 3rd and 4th Armored plus the 1st DLM under the command of Charles de Gaulle for deployment to Africa.

April 19th 1944- Italy expands the war with the beginning of an air campaign directed at the French airfields on the south of France and Corsica. The French responded in kind with attacks to Italian air bases in northern Italy. So far into the war both sides are not targeting civilian targets. By the end of April, French aircrafts coming from the north turn this campaign into a stalemate but the Italians ruled the skies over Corsica.

April 20th 1944- French Somaliland surrenders to Italian forces.

April 28th 1944- Battle of Convoy FG28- Two Italian light cruiser with destroyer escorts tried to intercept this convoy. Unknown to them this convoy was escorted by the battle cruiser Bretagne, a light cruiser and destroyers. On the ensuing battle one Italian cruiser was sunk and the other suffer considerable damage while the French losses were minimal. The French convoys to North Africa thereafter were only affected by an overall ineffective submarine campaign.

May 1st 1944- Charles de Gaulle and lead elements arrive to Algiers. Rest of his Corps will be in theater and ready to enter combat by the end of the month.

May 8th 1944- In the biggest airborne operation in history, two airborne divisions dropped on the island of Corsica and caught the small garrison unprepared. The island is considered secure by the 18th of May after the arrival of another division by sea on the 10th to help consolidate the situation.

May 10th 1944- 1st naval Battle of Corsica. The French cruiser Algiers, a light cruiser and escorts clashed with the ships escorting the infantry division on bound to Corsica. The Vittorio Veneto and the Roma made mincemeat of the French ships, sinking both the Algiers and the light cruiser with the lost of a single destroyer. Mussolini hailed this victory as a sign of the Italian superiority in battleships.

May 15th 1944- Mussolini offers terms to French to accept the current situation as permanent. The French refuse out of hand.

May 22nd 1944-French government receives assurances from the German nation that they will stay neutral in this conflict. Great Britain guaranteed this, even stating they will side with the French if Germany breaks their word. Story is that German President Lettow -Vorbeck said. “Franks go and fight. And tell Caesar that Arminus send his regards.”

May 24th 1944- French High Command began swift of forces south. While still leaving a sizeable force on the border with Germany, the bulk of the forces in Northern France began to move south in preparation of the one-two punch planned by the French leaders.

June 6th 1944-2nd naval Battle of Corsica. The French plan to gain naval superiority in the immediate waters of Corsica was a classic battle facing two battleships on each side were the lines of communication with the Italian garrison in Corsica was on the balance. The French battleships Richelieu and Jean Bart suffered moderate and slight damage respectively but they fared better than their Italian counterparts. The Duilio was sunk while the Roma suffered severe damage and has to withdraw in the direction of Taranto for repairs.

June 8th 1944- The sinking of the Roma. The battleship Roma, moving away from Corsica after been damaged in battle, is sunk by an aerial attack launched from the aircraft carrier Bearn. While many said the ship prior damage in battle is the real reason it was sunk, this action together with the actions of the Japanese fleet during the Russo-Japanese fleet proved the aircraft carrier was the future of naval forces.

Middle of June 1944/ January 1945- The French gained the initiative during this time and never lost it. Their simultaneous campaigns in July, while one of them could be considered a failure, were too much for the Italian forces. The Italian government was forced to call their Axis allies for help and tried in vain to get Franco’s Spain to join the war. By the end of October the end was near.

June14th 1944- Italian forces in Tunisia stop offensive operations due to weariness. By now the forces involved have been fighting close to two months without rest and where close to been exhausted. Reinforcements and replacements were been marshaled in southern Italy for the trip to Libya.

June 29th 1944- British government closes the Suez Canal to all military traffic, even troop carriers.

July 3rd 1945- Simultaneous campaigns launched in the French-Italian border and in Tunisia.

July 4th 1944- Late on the afternoon Corps d’Afrique under de Gaulle achieves breakthrough and began his race for Gabes.

July 5th 1944- General Graziani recognizes the danger of the French breakthrough and orders a general withdraw before his forces get encircled.

July 8th 1944- First registered use of gas in the war. Use by Italian forces on the Alps to defeat a French attack against a fortified position.

July 9th 1944- Forces marked for reinforcement of the Tunisian effort have to be deviated north to help stop the French attack on the Alps. Forces in Tunisia were left to fend for themselves.

July 9th 1944- First registered use of gas in Tunisia. Forces escaping from the Kasserine front use gas in their attempt to break free. The shock of the use of gas made possible the escape of the majority of the forces in that front back to the border.

July 10th 1944- First bombardment of cities. Cities on Nice, Marseilles and Grenoble received the “visit” of Italian bombers. French responded later on the day with attacks to Genoa and Milan.

July 11th - 12th 1944- The Corps d’Afrique fought the biggest mechanized battle ever with the Ariete armored division and the Trieste motorized one, part of the forces trying to escape encirclement north of Gabes. Both forces suffered heavy casualties but the Italians failed in their attempt to escape encirclement. De Gaulle units pocketed the Sfax force.

July 19th 1944- Battered Italians forces reached the Tunisian-Libyan border and began to dig in. 75,000 Italians soldiers are surrounded on the Tunisian coast south of Sfax and north of Gabes.

July 23rd 1944- Offensive on the Alps stopped with minimal gains. Some news reporters compared the casualties suffered by the French “as a replay of the Great War.” Still Mussolini was forced by his own casualties to ask his Axis allies for help.

July 24th 1944- Both Germany and the Central European Republic refuse Poland’s petition for right of transit of land forces thru their territories. Some air units were allowed if following designated air corridors.

July 25th 1944- Yugoslavia is bullied into giving right of transit to both Hungary and Bulgaria.

August 3rd 1944- French Foreign Legion 3rd REI opens gap on Italian forces in Libyan border. De Gaulle Corps d’ Afrique, now reduced to two under strength divisions in manpower, pours thru the gap. Italian forces began disorganized withdraw east.

August 5th 1944- General LeClerc’s Army of Central Africa began invasion of southern Libya from French Equatorial Africa. Opposition is minimal with Italian forces escaping north.

August 13th 1944- De Gaulle enters city of Tripoli. General Graziani sacked by Mussolini.

August 22nd 1944- French forces capture el Agheila. French forces in control of Tripolitania and southern Libya. Mussolini offers peace based on the pre-war borders. France, sure now of their ability to take the war to the enemy, refuses to event discuss those terms. War continues.

September 1st 1944- The bomber campaigns began. Both nations began bomber campaigns against each other cities. These raids continued thru the rest of the war and affected more Italy, due to their industrial sites being located in the northern cities for the most part.

September 4th 1944- Franco rejected the plea of Mussolini to join the war on the Axis side. He used as an excuse that his nation was still recovering from the effects of the Civil War.

September 5th 1944- Italian forces pocketed in Tunisia surrender and go into captivity. More than 70,000 men were captured.

September 18th 1944- French forces launch amphibious invasion of Sardinia. Small garrison on the island overwhelm in 10 days after heavy casualties for both sides.

September 19th 1944- Battle of the Tylerrian Sea. Battleship Impero and escorts intercepted by the battleship Jean Bart and the battle cruiser Lorraine. The aftermath was the destruction of the Impero while the Lorraine suffered severe damage and it took years to repair the extensive damage it suffered. The Italian navy never again tried to contend the French domain of the sea.

September 24th 1944- French long-range bombers attack Rome for the first time. Casualties were heavy and the damage was very limited but the propaganda coup was enormous.


October 2nd 1944- Simultaneous offensives launched in Africa and northern Italy by the French. This time French forces are prepared for chemical warfare and they expect to break the Italian lines this time.

October 7th 1944- With the Italian lines on the verge of collapse, nerve gas is used for first time in history to try to stop the French. The French offensive is stopped due to the terrible casualties inflicted to the unprepared troops. The results of the use of this experimental weapon never tested were a shock to both the Italians and the rest of the world.

October 9th 1944- With world public opinion outraged by the use of this new weapon and the late fortunes of the Italian forces being made public to the Italians, King Victor Emmanuel III asks Mussolini for his resignation. Mussolini, after a late bid to save his position, gave his resignation early in the morning of the 10th of October.

October 10th 1944- Count Ciano, Italian temporary leader offers peace based on October 1st frontlines. Offer is refused.

October 14th 1944- Benghazi captured by French forces. Italians continue their escape east.

October 21st 1944- Tobruk abandoned by Italian forces. More than 20,000 men flee by sea from this port before the evacuation of the city. Italian forces are actually fleeing east. Any sense of trying to defend is now gone.

October 28th 1944- Bardia and Fort Capputo surrenders to French forces. Close to 50,000 men cross into Egypt to be interned.

November 11th 1944- Italian garrison in Corsica asks for terms due to the lack of supplies and according to their commander “ to ease the suffering of the civilians on the island.”

December 15th 1944- “The Christmas Offensive” starts. The French used chemicals weapons offensively for the first time in the war and a small amphibious force was landed behind the enemy lines.

December 18th 1944- The landing behind the lines is contained on the beachheads but the front line on the passes was ready to burst. With both forces near exhaustion finally the 21st of December Italian defenses on the passes were broken. The road to Northern Italy was open for the French.

December 23rd 1944- Count Ciano asks for a ceasefire to discuss terms of surrender. After deliberation the French government agreed.

January 29th 1945- Treaty of Nice is signed. The terms were harsh but not as bad as expected. The French kept Libya and Sardinia plus recover French Somaliland. Also the French- Italian border was demilitarized. Italian East Africa stayed on the hands of the Italians due to British worries about French encroachment in East Africa and their preference to have now a weak Italy in control of that area than a strong France. The Italian army was reduced to 200,000 men and prohibited of having chemical weapons or armored vehicles. Also the two newest remaining battleships, the Littorio and the Vittorio Veneto were taken by the French as war booty while the Italian navy has to discard their submarine fleet and was prohibited of building more battleships, aircraft carriers or ships with guns bigger than 12”. Italy’s bid to be a major power was over. Another result of this treaty was the effective end of the Axis alliance.

February 14th 1946- First free elections in Italy since the 1920’s. A coalition of center-left factions wins the election as a response of the electorate to the failure of the fascists during the war.

July 17th 1948- Military coup in Bulgaria unseats the fascist government of that nation. Elections were promised by the end of the year.

March 12th 1950- Miklos Horthy die from a heart attack in his sleep. His successor calls for general elections and finally the Hapsburg heir was offered the Crown of Hungary. German nation receives assurances than the new king of Hungary will renounce to any claims to the crown of Austria.

[Othniel]

What's so wrong with Taft being president? He was very popular, and he was actually better with the public than Dewey was. Dewey was an honest, but still gruff, cop from NYC, Taft was the friendly "Mr. Republican" from the Heartland.
First off the difference from OTL

One, no Dixicrat or Progressive parties. Sense the Democrat party hasn't been split yet by Roosevelt's policies and Truman's civil rights acts. However there is still the Socialist Norman Thomas. He won't be elected though, being seen as close to the soviets.

The Democrats are going to chose from the south, no doubt there, with someone from the midsouth or midwest as vice president.

The Republicians want appeal. What better appeal than New York (47), the State with the largest electoral vote, compared to Ohio (25). In OTL they lost that state every year except the year Dewey ran, 1948. They'll want that state.

They may also want California, a move seen in OTL by appointing Earl Warren to the Vice Presidential nomination.

New York, Penn, Il, then Ohio, California, and Texas are the large states and you have to capture as many large states as possible.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/38/ElectoralCollege1948-Large.png/450px-ElectoralCollege1948-Large.png

[Nicole]

March 12th 1950- Miklos Horthy die from a heart attack in his sleep. His successor calls for general elections and finally the Hapsburg heir was offered the Crown of Hungary. German nation receives assurances than the new king of Hungary will renounce to any claims to the crown of Austria.
Yay! Finally the Hapsburgs get restored...

[perdedor99]

First off the difference from OTL

One, no Dixicrat or Progressive parties. Sense the Democrat party hasn't been split yet by Roosevelt's policies and Truman's civil rights acts. However there is still the Socialist Norman Thomas. He won't be elected though, being seen as close to the soviets.

The Democrats are going to chose from the south, no doubt there, with someone from the midsouth or midwest as vice president.

The Republicians want appeal. What better appeal than New York (47), the State with the largest electoral vote, compared to Ohio (25). In OTL they lost that state every year except the year Dewey ran, 1948. They'll want that state.

They may also want California, a move seen in OTL by appointing Earl Warren to the Vice Presidential nomination.

New York, Penn, Il, then Ohio, California, and Texas are the large states and you have to capture as many large states as possible.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/38/ElectoralCollege1948-Large.png/450px-ElectoralCollege1948-Large.png

Oth, is a very good point. But I think the name of President Taft has been mentioned a couple of times so let's Glen decide if Taft was President or need to be change. But I agree with your logic for Dewey being the man.

Also let's continue into the 1950's. IMO Stevenson make a better candidate for President than Harriman, due to accusations made in the 1960's of him being a Soviet spy. Or make him President and see the US taking a soft hand on communists? If he does that said hello to the 1956 elections winner Richard Nixon.

[luakel]

Oth, is a very good point. But I think the name of President Taft has been mentioned a couple of times so let's Glen decide if Taft was President or need to be change. But I agree with your logic for Dewey being the man.
Well, Taft will be killed in 1950 anyway, so Dewey will have the Presidency no matter what.

BTW, could we start brainstorming ideas for a '60's Pacific War now?

[Othniel]

Well, Taft will be killed in 1950 anyway, so Dewey will have the Presidency no matter what.

BTW, could we start brainstorming ideas for a '60's Pacific War now?

Death can be postponed. Taft could survived or be taken out of the context in which he would normally assinated. If the president's life can be saved it will be...

[luakel]

Death can be postponed. Taft could survived or be taken out of the context in which he would normally assinated. If the president's life can be saved it will be...
My point in saying the above was that you will likely get Dewey as president even if Taft is the nominee.

[Othniel]

I could also argue that with most of the New Deal reserved that Taft has no reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election%2C_1948
Truman, on the other hand, decided to pull the gloves off, targeting the Republican-controlled 80th Congress. The 80th Congress, led by Senator Robert A. Taft of Ohio, was much more conservative than Dewey, and was fixated on rolling back Roosevelt's New Deal. However, under Dewey's leadership, the Republicans enacted a platform at the 1948 convention which called for expanding social security, more funding for public housing, civil rights legislation, and promotion of health and education by the federal government.

I think Dewey would be more willing to take risks than OTL as well, with the wins and realitive progress of the Republician party to back him up. The 80th Congress would be much bolder as well. I think without Roosevelt's New Deal fully there that Dewey still be seen as the man. I leave this as my case to support Dewey as the Republician nominee.

[perdedor99]

need to decide the US Presidents to 1960
IMO Dewey will be seen as a winner due to his victory in the Philippines and for the reasons Oth gave. I say he wins in 1952 defeating Stevenson and them runs again in 1956 either versus Stevenson or Harriman. That one we need to flesh out some events to see which one get the advantage. I also agree with Oth the VP for Dewey should be Warren.
The situation in South America to 1960
Up to Oth. let see what he post and we can work around it. I also need to wrap the Colombian civil war.
The situation in Africa to 1960
Slower rate of independence and I agree with luakel. The French just added Libya and they are on a roll. maybe tyring to hold on totheir Empire to the end.
An Israel or no Israel?
situation on the Middle East to 1960
I guess everyone ius agreeing to a no Israel. Very peaceful Middle East?
Situation on the Pacific to 1960
I disagree with luakel and agree with Glen. The japanese are trying to cultivate a relationship with the US and trying to create an economic GEACPS, of course helping independence movements under the table. IMO no war in the 1960's
Situation on Europe to 1960
who replaces stalin?
What about a now alone paranoid Poland?

[Othniel]

US Presidents;

The democrats have yet to turn to the civil rights movement, while the Republicians have started somewhat. Does the south continue to dominate the Democrat party? The west still has a reformist attitude that will draw problems from both the Republicians and Democrats, so might we see continued efforts for western candidents from the Republician party?

[luakel]

need to decide the US Presidents to 1960
Well, I could very well see a Dewey vs. Stevenson race in 1952. Who would win? I also think that a Kennedy would probably rise at some point...
The situation in Africa to 1960
Maybe somewhat more peaceful than in OTL. I could see the French being much more harsh on the Algerians though.
An Israel or no Israel?
situation on the Middle East to 1960
Well, due to no Israel, I'd have to say somewat more peaceful. Nasser wouldn't rise either.
Situation on the Pacific to 1960
Japan still building up military for the push South.

[Othniel]

Well with Singking I agree with the becomeing a Soviet Puppet and for Tibet. I thinking of haveing an Overpopulated India seizing Tibet instead of the Chinese. That in turn starting a war with the ROC who has guarenteed Tibets indipendence. But I dont think that this will work in this TL. But in the end Tibet cant stay indipendent between two Large Military Powers with an explodeing population. Its up to you who hits first.

Something Derek Jackson (I think it was him) posted the other day got me thinking. What if Japan retreats from (most or all of) non-Manchurian China in 1940 of 1941, and instead fights Russia successfully?

Would the Japanese Empire surviving not concern an independent Philippines?

Depends on the character it takes over the years. If the militarists are out and the Japanese take a more moderate course over the decades, then they might not conflict, and might even cooperate on an economic basis.

The peaceful fruition of a Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, one built solely on the basis of economics?
Would the U.S. let that stand?

there glen.

[Glen]

Well with Singking I agree with the becomeing a Soviet Puppet and for Tibet. I thinking of haveing an Overpopulated India seizing Tibet instead of the Chinese. That in turn starting a war with the ROC who has guarenteed Tibets indipendence. But I dont think that this will work in this TL. But in the end Tibet cant stay indipendent between two Large Military Powers with an explodeing population. Its up to you who hits first.

China has the head start in most instances, but India is at peace for most of the time. I'd imagine both India and Nationalist China are going nominally democratic, though I know there are those out there that are fans of either a Fascist India or a Fascist China.

Your point about exploding populations is well taken, but one mitigating fact to that is that despite how big it is on the map, there just isn't a lot of livable space in Tibet, so it doesn't really represent a big expansion of living space.

The ROC is going to be very focused on the Red North, and I would think would not want to antagonize India. India is at least initially going to start out as a democratic confederation.

The most likely thing? Tibet remains with the Republic of China as a semi-autonomous region, this time more or less voluntary. the ROC might squack a little about the very generous (to India) border agreement of the early 20th Century, but I'd think that they wouldn't be as anxious to go to war over it.

However, let's see what others say.

Something Derek Jackson (I think it was him) posted the other day got me thinking. What if Japan retreats from (most or all of) non-Manchurian China in 1940 of 1941, and instead fights Russia successfully?

The problem seems to be that the Far East Soviet Army just outclasses the Japanese Army in most people's estimation, in terms of leadership (ex: Zhukhov), weapons (ex: T-34 tank), and sheer numbers. What have the Japanese? A better Navy (which is important), shorter lines of communication, and a near fanatical devotion to the Emperor.

The scenario as written now does have the Japanese making a ceasefire and moving troops to the Soviet front.

Would the Japanese Empire surviving not concern an independent Philippines?

Depends on the character it takes over the years. If the militarists are out and the Japanese take a more moderate course over the decades, then they might not conflict, and might even cooperate on an economic basis.

The peaceful fruition of a Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, one built solely on the basis of economics?
Would the U.S. let that stand?

Well, I'm thinking that it might really be a sort of three way Co-Dominion, China, Japan, and the US.

[Glen]

I could help with the presidents, if you guys would have me.

We do want your help.

BTW, we're pumping up de Gaulle so he can make a run for office in France, for you! ;)

[Glen]

Oth, is a very good point. But I think the name of President Taft has been mentioned a couple of times so let's Glen decide if Taft was President or need to be change. But I agree with your logic for Dewey being the man.

Also let's continue into the 1950's. IMO Stevenson make a better candidate for President than Harriman, due to accusations made in the 1960's of him being a Soviet spy. Or make him President and see the US taking a soft hand on communists? If he does that said hello to the 1956 elections winner Richard Nixon.

Taft has been mentioned in the timeline mostly because y'all went to the trouble to do as I asked and write specific events for the timeline, and they were plausible.

I like Dewey myself. I want to pull out luakel's, Wendell's, Oth's, and p99's recommendations for Presidential elections candidates and winners and see what fits, and what would be of benefit to the timeline.

[Glen]

I see the potential for Russia to get beaten up in badly in this timeline, thus, no Dzhungurian client state.


What would your scenario for this be?


While Germany et al are tied up with Italy, Poland, a Soviet ally, makes moves against Teschen and Lithuania...Then, of course, future Reichsprasident Rommel leads his troops to dislodge the Reds from Poland, Lithuania, Byelorussia, AND Ukraine, while the Soviets face uprisings in the Caucasus.

What do people think about this?

[Nicole]

During the ROC era, Tibet (then consisting of an area bascially 2005 OTL Tibetan Autonomous Region) was basically independent and left alone by the government, though the ROC claimed it, it did not enforce it's claims. I think this situation would continue, and Tibet would be de facto independent and left alone (as has been mentioned, there is not much land to settle in Tibet, too mountainous), perhaps as a buffer between China and India.

[Othniel]

Dewey vs. Thurmond (I'm not sure exactly but I left what the numbers tell me and they say that Dewey has the best chance for ther republician nomination based on which states he would be expected to win only, not to mention taking care of problems created by crime. Thurmond simply because I couldn't think of anyone straight off my head...) vs. Norman 1948 Dewey wins.

[Glen]

Okay, to simplify my life...

Could everyone who has an opinion on US Presidential elections and their results (and the occasional death in/removal from office of a Pres with the VP ascending) please re-post their picks, so I can see them all together rather than combing through the thread?

Sorry for any inconvenience this might cause, but it would help lots...

[luakel]

1941-45: Arthur Vandenberg/Robert A. Taft Republican
1945-49: Arthur Vandenberg/Robert A. Taft Republican
1949-50: Robert A. Taft/Thomas E. Dewey Republican (assassinated)
1950-53: Thomas E. Dewey/Not Avaliable Republican
1953-57: Adlai Stevenson/Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. Democrat
1957-61: Adlai Stevenson/Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. Democrat
1961-65: Joseph P. Kennedy Jr./Hubert H. Humphrey Democrat
1965-69: Barry Goldwater/Richard Nixon Republican
1969-73: Barry Goldwater/Richard Nixon Republican
1973-75: Robert F. Kennedy/Edmund Muskie Democrat (assassinated)
1975-77: Edmund Muskie/Not Availiable Democrat
1977-81: Ronald Reagan/Bob Dole Republican

[Glen]

Dewey vs. Thurmond (I'm not sure exactly but I left what the numbers tell me and they say that Dewey has the best chance for ther republician nomination based on which states he would be expected to win only, not to mention taking care of problems created by crime. Thurmond simply because I couldn't think of anyone straight off my head...) vs. Norman 1948 Dewey wins.

We also have the possibility of Claude Pepper in 48...

[Glen]

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Glen Finney @ Sep 1 2005, 12:43 AM)


Quote:
Originally Posted by (Wendell @ Aug 31 2005, 08:23 PM)

I see the potential for Russia to get beaten up in badly in this timeline, thus, no Dzhungurian client state.




What would your scenario for this be?




While Germany et al are tied up with Italy, Poland, a Soviet ally, makes moves against Teschen and Lithuania...Then, of course, future Reichsprasident Rommel leads his troops to dislodge the Reds from Poland, Lithuania, Byelorussia, AND Ukraine, while the Soviets face uprisings in the Caucasus.

Bump. Resulting in a forced migration of Chechens not unlike Stalin's in OTL?

More from Wendell via OTL.com

[Othniel]

Republician Presidental Canident Thomas Dewey
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cb/ThomasDewey.jpg
& Vice Pesidental Canident Dwight H. Green(Govenor of Illinious)
or Henry Dworshak (Representive from the State of Idaho

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/02/Dworshak.jpg
vs.

Democratic Presidental Canident Alben Barkley
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/AlbenBarkley.jpg

& Democratic Vice Presidental CandidentFielding Lewis Wright (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fielding_L._Wright)

vs. Norman Thomas (Socialist)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d0/Normanthomas.jpg
and socialist VP Canident Tucker P. Smith


In 1948 Dewey wins. I'm not opening again till we are fully done with the fourties on Presidental Elections.

[Glen]

Wendell's list posted on OTL.com

A. Vandenburg, Republican, elected 1940; Lives out his two terms.
C. Pepper, Democrat, elected 1948; Lives out his two terms.
H. Lodge, Republican, elected in 1956; dies in second term. Killed by assassin.
B. Goldwater, Republican, elected in 1964 as incumbent after Lodge's demise. Does not seek reelection in 1968.
J. Kennedy, Democrat, elected in 1968; Lives out his two terms.
R. Reagan, Republican, elected 1976; Lives out his two terms.
R. Dole, Republican, elected only once in 1984. Lives out his one term.
R. Kerrey, Democrat, elected in 1988; Lives out his two terms.
F. Thompson, Republican, elected 1996; Lives out his two terms.

[Glen]

So, is everyone in agreement then about Vandenburg as President from 1940-48?

Oh, and Wendell did clarify that the Kennedy in his list is JFK.

[Glen]

luakel, a question from Wendell.


Why Goldwater and Nixon? That does not make sense to me.

[Glen]

We're still wrangling over his Veep. BTW, in mine, I was expecting Pepper to possibly but VP Warren on the SCOTUS, and Vandenberg to possibly put Nixon on the said court.

Interesting...

[Glen]

So, is everyone in agreement then about Vandenburg as President from 1940-48?
I think we decided that before time. Vandenburg makes it in and does well is my whole assumtion on Dewey. I foresee 3 Republician presidents (2,2,1), then two democrats (2,2), then a single Republician(1), then two more democrats (2,1)

[Glen]

luakel, a question from Wendell.

And luakel's answer....Well, I imagined them as a continuation of the somewhat conservative Kennedy years.

[luakel]

And luakel's answer....Well, I imagined them as a continuation of the somewhat conservative Kennedy years.
After all, JPK Jr. would likely follow much more in JPK Sr.s footsteps than JFK did.

[Wendell]

Interesting...
Thanks, I thought so too.

[Othniel]

What if a major with the US breaks out during a presidents second term? One of the rules of American poltics is that you don't change horses in a war stream. Thus are the situations presented any good if such a scenario happens?

[Wendell]

What if a major with the US breaks out during a presidents second term? One of the rules of American poltics is that you don't change horses in a war stream. Thus are the situations presented any good if such a scenario happens?
Well, let's get the wars lined up first.

[perdedor99]

What do people think about this?
no,With atomic weapons I don't see the world getting ready to fight the Russians. Not went massive destruction is assured and in a nuclear exchange the loser will be Europe.

[Wendell]

no,With atomic weapons I don't see the world getting ready to fight the Russians. Not went massive destruction is assured and in a nuclear exchange the loser will be Europe.
Yeah, we want the Weimar Republic to survive, remember?

[luakel]

Well, let's get the wars lined up first.
So far we have:

2nd Russo-Jap. War
Yugoslav and Greek Wars
Romania-Bulgarian War
Tunisian War
Huk Rebellion
Pacific War

Any others?

[Wendell]

So far we have:

2nd Russo-Jap. War
Yugoslav and Greek Wars
Romania-Bulgarian War
Tunisian War
Huk Rebellion
Pacific War

Any others?
It would be an interesting twist for the U.S. to get Micronesia from Japan sometime in the 1940's.


Hey, this means that the League of Nations continues to exist, right?

[perdedor99]

1941-45: Arthur Vandenberg/Robert A. Taft Republican
1945-49: Arthur Vandenberg/Robert A. Taft Republican
1949-50: Robert A. Taft/Thomas E. Dewey Republican (assassinated)
1950-53: Thomas E. Dewey/Earl Warren Republican
1953-57: Thomas E. Dewey/Earl Warren Republican
1957-61: Adlai Stevenson/Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. Democrat
1961-64: Adlai Stevenson/Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. Democrat
1964-65: Joseph P. Kennedy Jr./Averill HarrimanDemocrat
1965-69: Richard Nixon/Maxwell TaylorRepublican
1969-73: Richard Nixon/Maxwell TaylorRepublican
1973-77: Robert F. Kennedy/James Carter Democrat
1977-81: Ronald Reagan/George Bush Sr. Republican

[Wendell]

1941-45: Arthur Vandenberg/Robert A. Taft Republican
1945-49: Arthur Vandenberg/Robert A. Taft Republican
1949-50: Robert A. Taft/Thomas E. Dewey Republican (assassinated)
1950-53: Thomas E. Dewey/Earl Warren Republican
1953-57: Thomas E. Dewey/Earl Warren Republican
1957-61: Adlai Stevenson/Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. Democrat
1961-64: Adlai Stevenson/Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. Democrat
1964-65: Joseph P. Kennedy Jr./Averill HarrimanDemocrat
1965-69: Richard Nixon/Maxwell TaylorRepublican
1969-73: Richard Nixon/Maxwell TaylorRepublican
1973-77: Robert F. Kennedy/Edmund Muskie Democrat
1977-81: Ronald Reagan/George Bush Sr. Republican
Muskie and Kennedy are both from the Northeast...

[perdedor99]

It would be an interesting twist for the U.S. to get Micronesia from Japan sometime in the 1940's.


Hey, this means that the League of Nations continues to exist, right?

I guess so. I have them sent a mission to squash the Huk rebellion, so I guess they still are around. That is another question, what will be their powers? IRRC they were weaker than the UN in regard to ways to enforce decisions.

[luakel]

It would be an interesting twist for the U.S. to get Micronesia from Japan sometime in the 1940's.


Hey, this means that the League of Nations continues to exist, right?
We actually were planning such a war for the '60's.

1941-45: Arthur Vandenberg/Robert A. Taft Republican
1945-49: Arthur Vandenberg/Robert A. Taft Republican
1949-50: Robert A. Taft/Thomas E. Dewey Republican (assassinated)
1950-53: Thomas E. Dewey/Earl Warren Republican
1953-57: Thomas E. Dewey/Earl Warren Republican
1957-61: Adlai Stevenson/Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. Democrat
1961-64: Adlai Stevenson/Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. Democrat
1964-65: Joseph P. Kennedy Jr./Averill HarrimanDemocrat
1965-69: Richard Nixon/Maxwell TaylorRepublican
1969-73: Richard Nixon/Maxwell TaylorRepublican
1973-77: Robert F. Kennedy/Edmund Muskie Democrat
1977-81: Ronald Reagan/George Bush Sr. Republican

First off, I assume that Stvenson dies at the same time as OTL? Also, Why isn't Goldwater up there?

[perdedor99]

Muskie and Kennedy are both from the Northeast...

Thanks, I guess need to look for a replacement for the man.

[Wendell]

Thanks, I guess need to look for a replacement for the man.
Maybe Carter, or Zell Miller?

[perdedor99]

We actually were planning such a war for the '60's.
I don't think a war in the 60's in on the books, need to check with Glen. there is not a realistic way Japan will launch itself in war of agressions, even less with the US by the way the TL is going. Even worst, both sides have atomic weapons by the 1960's.

First off, I assume that Stvenson dies at the same time as OTL? Also, Why isn't Goldwater up there?

He was a rich man from Arizona and didn't entered politics into the late 1940's. Is a very good possibilty he stayed running the family business. And yes Stevenson died a little bit earlier than IOTL due to the strains of the president's chair.

[perdedor99]

Maybe Carter, or Zell Miller?

Carter works fine. Thanks.

[Glen]

I guess so. I have them sent a mission to squash the Huk rebellion, so I guess they still are around. That is another question, what will be their powers? IRRC they were weaker than the UN in regard to ways to enforce decisions.

They were indeed, and weakened even more during the 1930s with countries pulling out left and right. However, perhaps it limps along through the 1940s and gets revitalized in the late 1940s? With the dawning of the atomic age, they might make more sense to nations.

[Othniel]

I thought a conflict might happen in South America during the mid-seventies.

[Glen]

I don't think a war in the 60's in on the books, need to check with Glen. there is not a realistic way Japan will launch itself in war of agressions, even less with the US by the way the TL is going. Even worst, both sides have atomic weapons by the 1960's.

My answer is no. I believe that the Japanese reform after their war with the Soviets, and the US and Japan become allies/friendly competitors in the Pacific region. Much more an even relationship than OTL, of course...


He was a rich man from Arizona and didn't entered politics into the late 1940's. Is a very good possibilty he stayed running the family business. And yes Stevenson died a little bit earlier than IOTL due to the strains of the president's chair.

You lost me with this one.

[Glen]

I thought a conflict might happen in South America during the mid-seventies.

Sure. What kind of conflict?

[Othniel]

Steveson died earlier due to being president, and Goldwater was just a ruch old man. (Pedro translation off.)

[Wendell]

They were indeed, and weakened even more during the 1930s with countries pulling out left and right. However, perhaps it limps along through the 1940s and gets revitalized in the late 1940s? With the dawning of the atomic age, they might make more sense to nations.
Maybe the U.S. decides to join along the way?

[Othniel]

Sure. What kind of conflict?
Well, between Fascist Brazil-Paraguay, and Communist Boliva-Argentina-Uruguay and Democratic Chile in a three way mini-cold war.

[Wendell]

Well, between Fascist Brazil-Paraguay, and Communist Boliva-Argentina-Uruguay and Democratic Chile in a three way mini-cold war.
You give them too much power.

[perdedor99]

My Presidents to 1957: the reason is simple in Taft. Is already mentioned as president and I don't have the heart to kill Dewey in New York City. :D He gets elected on his own right in the 1952 due to his victory in the Philippines, the economy and his civil rights advances. The problem I see is the too many Republican adminstrations and the possibilty of him running and winning in 1956 was very big if nothing major happen. So we have to comeup with soemthing that stop him from running or something that make him lose.

[perdedor99]

Well, between Fascist Brazil-Paraguay, and Communist Boliva-Argentina-Uruguay and Democratic Chile in a three way mini-cold war.

But what the US will do about this? Will they just sit while all this happens?

[Wendell]

My Presidents to 1957: the reason is simple in Taft. Is already mentioned as president and I don't have the heart to kill Dewey in New York City. :D He gets elected on his own right in the 1952 due to his victory in the Philippines, the economy and his civil rights advances. The problem I see is the too many Republican adminstrations and the possibilty of him running and winning in 1956 was very big if nothing major happen. So we have to comeup with soemthing that stop him from running or something that make him lose.
I took care of the too many Republican administrations problem in my list.

[Glen]

You give them too much power.

In what sense?

[Othniel]

You give them too much power.
Give who too much power? Brazil was already fascist and that continued and spent two decades building up, with a fascist Paraguay on their side.

They take on the Communist Argentina that has nominal allies in Bolivia and Uruguay.

Chile is a stable democracy.

They all oppose each other on those three axisi.

[Othniel]

But what the US will do about this? Will they just sit while all this happens?
Supply Chile and attempt to keep Brazil and Argentina in a weak enough postion by embargos and material support to democratic guerillias.

[Wendell]

Give who too much power? Brazil was already fascist and that continued and spent two decades building up, with a fascist Paraguay on their side.

They take on the Communist Argentina that has nominal allies in Bolivia and Uruguay.

Chile is a stable democracy.

They all oppose each other on those three axisi.
But Argentina as openly Communist? Are you implying that they have nukes?

[perdedor99]

I took care of the too many Republican administrations problem in my list.

The problem I see is that a succesful Vanderberg VP will must likely win an election. Then with Taft being assasinated IMO Dewey will win the 1952 election due to the reasons I stated above. And he can actually run in 1956. That is very close to FDR-HST rule of the US(20 years). By 1956 the Republicans can have the White House for 16 years. The problem is that 16 years of Republicans actually make sense so far. They have been very succesful Presidents so far on the TL.

[Wendell]

The problem I see is that a succesful Vanderberg VP will must likely win an election. Then with Taft being assasinated IMO Dewey will win the 1952 election due to the reasons I stated above. And he can actually run in 1956. That is very close to FDR-HST rule of the US(20 years). By 1956 the Republicans can have the White House for 16 years. The problem is that 16 years of Republicans actually make sense so far. They have been very succesful Presidents so far on the TL.
Vandenberg's successor would win w/o a war going on?

[Othniel]

But Argentina as openly Communist? Are you implying that they have nukes?
No, but they might if such a conflict promts them on. In such an event I imagine the US or anouther Nuclear power stepping in immeadiately. Argentina went communist in '55.

[perdedor99]

Vandenberg's successor would win w/o a war going on?

The Republicans can play it as the ones that ended the depression, plus his record in foreign affairs have been good according to the TL. And a succesful President VP almost always win the election. Only ones I can recall since 1932 has been Nixon in 1960, and that one was a squeaker, with the dead voting in Chicago. :D and Gore.

[Wendell]

No, but they might if such a conflict promts them on. In such an event I imagine the US or anouther Nuclear power stepping in immeadiately. Argentina went communist in '55.
Well, that could sure impact Mercosur...

[Glen]

But Argentina as openly Communist? Are you implying that they have nukes?

None of these countries will have nukes.

[perdedor99]

So the Tunisian war info is OK?

[Glen]

So the Tunisian war info is OK?

Its great! I might tweak a few of the aftermath bits, and I am reinserting my version of the LV quote, but I think it really looks good.

I still want to free Ethiopia, though...independence might fly since it would punish Italy without giving too much to France for British taste...

Anyone else have comments about the Tunisian war material?

[Wendell]

The Republicans can play it as the ones that ended the depression, plus his record in foreign affairs have been good according to the TL. And a succesful President VP almost always win the election. Only ones I can recall since 1932 has been Nixon in 1960, and that one was a squeaker, with the dead voting in Chicago. :D and Gore.
The dead always vote in Chicago :p

[Wendell]

Its great! I might tweak a few of the aftermath bits, and I am reinserting my version of the LV quote, but I think it really looks good.

I still want to free Ethiopia, though...independence might fly since it would punish Italy without giving too much to France for British taste...

Anyone else have comments about the Tunisian war material?
Could it happen at the same time as a suprise Polish/Soviet attack against Czechoslovakia and the Baltic States?

[Glen]

Remember, there is more to the perception of a 'good' presidency than just the foreign affairs angle. The US is doing fine, but you could throw in a recession here, a scandal there, and tweak who is in the White House to your satisfaction that way. Especially if a change in outlook is needed for the International picture....

[Othniel]

Remember, there is more to the perception of a 'good' presidency than just the foreign affairs angle. The US is doing fine, but you could throw in a recession here, a scandal there, and tweak who is in the White House to your satisfaction that way. Especially if a change in outlook is needed for the International picture....
Which is why I'm waiting. I personally think that they'll be ready for a democrat come late 1960. A Grover Cleaveland.

[Wendell]

Remember, there is more to the perception of a 'good' presidency than just the foreign affairs angle. The US is doing fine, but you could throw in a recession here, a scandal there, and tweak who is in the White House to your satisfaction that way. Especially if a change in outlook is needed for the International picture....
I saw Pepper, as Vandenberg's successor, bringing the U.S. into the League...

[perdedor99]

Could it happen at the same time as a suprise Polish/Soviet attack against Czechoslovakia and the Baltic States?

So far ITTL the Soviets are focusing more on the Far East while Poland is afraid of the Soviets, so an alliance between them must likley is a no-go.

[Glen]

Hmm, looks like everyone expects Reagan to be elected president in 1976, except perhaps Oth.

[Wendell]

So far ITTL the Soviets are focusing more on the Far East while Poland is afraid of the Soviets, so an alliance between them must likley is a no-go.
I thought that Glen had them alligned...Are we not considering the Persia factor?

[Glen]

Could it happen at the same time as a suprise Polish/Soviet attack against Czechoslovakia and the Baltic States?

We're actually trying to avoid WWII, which is exactly what that would cause by that time in the history.

Why do you suggest such an attack at this point in the history. And how do you get the Polish and the Soviets working in this regard.

I had in an earlier version the Poles and the Soviets doing a Hitler/Stalin type deal on the Baltics.

However, without the Memel Region for Lithuania (which went out the window because there was no Ruhr Crisis to distract the French from Lithuanian action there), and with the Baltics allying with Germany shortly after the Polish Corridor affair (of course, if needed this could be moved, though we have sort of tried to 'finalize' the 1930s), that older scenario is unlikely.

And any attack on the Czechs will definitely draw in Germany in this timeline.

[Glen]

I saw Pepper, as Vandenberg's successor, bringing the U.S. into the League...

Interesting. US participation in the League would be a good thing for the timeline, I think.

How would he sell it to Congress, though?

[Wendell]

We're actually trying to avoid WWII, which is exactly what that would cause by that time in the history.

Why do you suggest such an attack at this point in the history. And how do you get the Polish and the Soviets working in this regard.

I had in an earlier version the Poles and the Soviets doing a Hitler/Stalin type deal on the Baltics.

However, without the Memel Region for Lithuania (which went out the window because there was no Ruhr Crisis to distract the French from Lithuanian action there), and with the Baltics allying with Germany shortly after the Polish Corridor affair (of course, if needed this could be moved, though we have sort of tried to 'finalize' the 1930s), that older scenario is unlikely.


And any attack on the Czechs will definitely draw in Germany in this timeline.
How would it escalate to a world war?

[Othniel]

Hmm, looks like everyone expects Reagan to be elected president in 1976, except perhaps Oth.
Never trust California. :p

[perdedor99]

I thought that Glen had them alligned...Are we not considering the Persia factor?

i also thought about it. Persia is a good choice for the Soviets to expand and they have a window to expand until at least 1953 before the British get the bomb. The League stepping in? Maybe Stalin supports a commie coup in Persia?

[Glen]

So far ITTL the Soviets are focusing more on the Far East while Poland is afraid of the Soviets, so an alliance between them must likley is a no-go.

Right. In fact, the Poles joined the Axis for a few years in the latest iteration of the timeline.

I think that Wendell is thinking of a previous version we had where Poland and the USSR made a devils pact like Hitler/Stalin in OTL, though more limited in scope, just involving carving up the Baltic states. No Finland and No Czech or Romanian moves.

However, that was superceded due to some other changes/additions.

[perdedor99]

How would it escalate to a world war?
Germany will join, followed by Great Britain and I can see the Japanese and the Chinese maybe joining in if they see the Russian bear faltering.

[Glen]

i also thought about it. Persia is a good choice for the Soviets to expand and they have a window to expand until at least 1953 before the British get the bomb. The League stepping in? Maybe Stalin supports a commie coup in Persia?

Wendell, if you'd like to write some events for Persia, feel free.

[Wendell]

Interesting. US participation in the League would be a good thing for the timeline, I think.

How would he sell it to Congress, though?
Actually, it would be ironic for Lodge to lead the charge AGAINST U.S. entry into the League just as his grandfather had done...Maybe it is sold as a way "to put fascism in the past, and work towards a would of greater peace and prosperity." Maybe conditional entry is possible?

[Wendell]

Germany will join, followed by Great Britain and I can see the Japanese and the Chinese maybe joining in if they see the Russian bear faltering.
The point was that Japan would...but, getting them in With China...Maybe the old Imperial borders come back in the West?

[perdedor99]

Whoever is elected in 1948. let's kill him in New York City by Puerto Ricans. We tried for Truman in this TL, at least give me the chance to see them succeed. :D

[Wendell]

Right. In fact, the Poles joined the Axis for a few years in the latest iteration of the timeline.

I think that Wendell is thinking of a previous version we had where Poland and the USSR made a devils pact like Hitler/Stalin in OTL, though more limited in scope, just involving carving up the Baltic states. No Finland and No Czech or Romanian moves.

However, that was superceded due to some other changes/additions.
Hey, you know, Rommel could still be a hero in this TL. While it seems entirely too often to happen, in this TL, he would have never been a Nazi...

[perdedor99]

The point was that Japan would...but, getting them in With China...Maybe the old Imperial borders come back in the West?

yeah, maybe too early in the TL, they didn't start cooperation until 1955. i guess this will be a deviation of the main TL. Japan at least will go return of Korea and Manchuria.

[Wendell]

Whoever is elected in 1948. let's kill him in New York City by Puerto Ricans. We tried for Truman in this TL, at least give me the break to see them succeed. :D
Hey, Pepper could be killed, and replaced by his VP, Truman, who gets the League Entry Act passed in the late President's memory?

[Glen]

Hey, you know, Rommel could still be a hero in this TL. While it seems entirely too often to happen, in this TL, he would have never been a Nazi...

Well, there is that...

[Glen]

Hey, Pepper could be killed, and replaced by his VP, Truman, who gets the League Entry Act passed in the late President's memory?

Poor Claude. IOTL he lives to a very old age. Here he becomes President only to be cut down in his prime...

[Glen]

yeah, maybe too early in the TL, they didn't start cooperation until 1955. i guess this will be a deviation of the main TL. Japan at least will go return of Korea and Manchuria.

Yes, something like this could always be constructed as a diverging timeline from the current one.

We've already floated one where Hitler has a successful rise to power in Austria instead of starting a civil war, and luakel I think is going to do a divergence where there is a US-Japanese war (in the 40s still or in the 60s, not certain which). Could do this as well, if Wendell wants to do it.

[Wendell]

Well, there is that...
We do need to get a list of Reichsprasidents going...

[Wendell]

Poor Claude. IOTL he lives to a very old age. Here he becomes President only to be cut down in his prime...
It was just an idea...

[Glen]

Okay, getting late. Must seek sleep.

Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.

p99, I have to edit in your stuff, probably not til tomorrow, but it will all be put in, though with a few adjustments here and there, as I have already mentioned. Thanks for all the work you've put into this.

[perdedor99]

Poor Claude. IOTL he lives to a very old age. Here he becomes President only to be cut down in his prime...

I can see two things need to be changed if we elect Pepper so far. The assasination bit, from Taft to Pepper and from Dewey to Truman. The other one is the one about the President reaction to the League's call to help PI. Need to be changed to Pepper instead of Taft. You guys are convincing for Pepper as president in 1948. The problem I see is that Dewey will lose the 1952 election to Truman IMO. For the same reasons that I said Dewey would ahve won a Presidential election in 1952. Economy, Truman is a believer in civil rights and he won a war in Philippines together with the League.

[Wendell]

Okay, instead of the war in Eastern Europe, we could have a Russo-Persian conflict happening in conjunction with a Russo-Japanese one, maybe?

[Glen]

We do need to get a list of Reichsprasidents going...

Well, we have Reichsprasidents for the elections from inception up to and including the 1947 election. Presumably he serves until 1954. So we'd need to start there.

[Wendell]

Well, we have Reichsprasidents for the elections from inception up to and including the 1947 election. Presumably he serves until 1954. So we'd need to start there.
Adenauer, Brandt, maybe someone from OTL's DDR?

[perdedor99]

Okay, instead of the war in Eastern Europe, we could have a Russo-Persian conflict happening in conjunction with a Russo-Japanese one, maybe?
The Russo-japanese war was a major conflict and I don't think the Soviets want the other power to get involved. And a Persian conflict is too close to british interest for their comfort. Try this in the early 1950's when only Germany and the Soviet have the bomb. IMO they will be bold until other possible enemies, like the US and Great Britain also get the bomb.

[Glen]

Adenauer, Brandt, maybe someone from OTL's DDR?

Adenauer's already been Chancellor (be nice to have a list of those, too).

Brandt is a definite possibility for sometime in the 50s or 60s, though he'll be using his real name (forgot it...have to look in wikipedia).

[Wendell]

The Russo-japanese war was a major conflict and I don't think the Soviets want the other power to get involved. And a Persian conflict is too close to british interest for their comfort. Try this in the early 1950's when only Germany and the Soviet have the bomb. IMO they will be bold until other possible enemies, like the US and Great Britain also get the bomb.
I was just thinking about the whole thing over South Azerbaijan escalating.

[perdedor99]

I was just thinking about the whole thing over South Azerbaijan escalating.
Is just that fighting a major war in the Pacific I don't see Stalin opening a new front at the same time. IMO try in the 1950's.

[Wendell]

Is just that fighting a major war in the Pacific I don't see Stalin opening a new front at the same time. IMO try in the 1950's.
Unless, it starts w/o Stalin, and he runs with it?

[perdedor99]

Unless, it starts w/o Stalin, and he runs with it?
Stalin is not stupid. it the problem start without his authorization he will agree to some bull agreement and deal with the situation later. Fighting a major war and them start trouble the other side of the world with the possibility of the british getting involved doesn't make sense.

[Glen]

See what you think of this scenario...

http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=20241

[luakel]

luakel I think is going to do a divergence where there is a US-Japanese war
What's wrong with making this part of the main TL?

[Glen]

What's wrong with making this part of the main TL?

For which, 1940s or 1960s? 1940s would be plausible if the Democrats stayed in the White House. By the 1960s, due to nukes and the changing international scene, it is less plausible, or even desirable IMO.

But if you feel you have a good reason for such a war, please go ahead and make it. I've changed things at need before, and will do so again if compelling reasons exist.

[luakel]

For which, 1940s or 1960s? 1940s would be plausible if the Democrats stayed in the White House. By the 1960s, due to nukes and the changing international scene, it is less plausible, or even desirable IMO.

But if you feel you have a good reason for such a war, please go ahead and make it. I've changed things at need before, and will do so again if compelling reasons exist.
Well, having it in the '40's would be better, I agree. But the Sixties has some merits as well. It would likely be much quicker, and would also prove the US power in the same way that GW1 did.

[perdedor99]

Well, having it in the '40's would be better, I agree. But the Sixties has some merits as well. It would likely be much quicker, and would also prove the US power in the same way that GW1 did.
How in a nuclear holocaust that will destroy the Home Islands, Philippines, maybe even cities in Alaska and all the Far East. The United States, even if they are not the first to start this war will be ruined. Thousands of deaths and not very well liked after genocide of the Japanese people.Nice way to project their power. IMO that war is out. IMO the first use of the bombs will be tactical then moving to strategical and at the end just nuke anythinh that moves. Not a good way to show your power. Soviet Union big winner in this scenario. They just have to pick up the pieces of the wrecked Japan.

[luakel]

How in a nuclear holocaust that will destroy the Home Islands, Philippines, maybe even cities in Alaska and all the Far East. The United States, even if they are not the first to start this war will be ruined. Thousands of deaths and not very well liked after genocide of the Japanese people.Nice way to project their power. IMO that war is out. IMO the first use of the bombs will be tactical then moving to strategical and at the end just nuke anythinh that moves. Not a good way to show your power. Soviet Union big winner in this scenario. They just have to pick up the pieces of the wrecked Japan.
Well, could we try to have a war in the 40's then?

[Wendell]

Why do we need a U.S./Japan war?

[luakel]

Why do we need a U.S./Japan war?
Well, unless Japan gets totally wiped out, we will likely see them turning out great in the long term, just as in OTL. Also, I want to see the US get Micronesia.

[perdedor99]

Well, could we try to have a war in the 40's then?
Why? they are in no shape to fight a war after getting their behind handed by the Soviets and I agree with Wendell: Why we need a US/Japanese war for?

[Wendell]

Well, unless Japan gets totally wiped out, we will likely see them turning out great in the long term, just as in OTL. Also, I want to see the US get Micronesia.
I do too-and mayb keep Philippins-but there are diplomatic ways too, you know.

[luakel]

Why? they are in no shape to fight a war after getting their behind handed by the Soviets and I agree with Wendell: Why we need a US/Japanese war for?
See the answer above.

Added to that: it's just kinda one of my cliches that I put in TLs.

[perdedor99]

Well, unless Japan gets totally wiped out, we will likely see them turning out great in the long term, just as in OTL. Also, I want to see the US get Micronesia.

i don't think so. This war will spiral into an exchange of atomic weapons. And why the US getiing Micronesia for? I'd been there. Nice weather, nice beaches nothing else. You get bored after a couple of months living there.

[luakel]

I do too-and mayb keep Philippins-but there are diplomatic ways too, you know.
Well, I wanted to do it peacefully after the Russo-Jap. War, but perdedor thought it was too implausible.

[Wendell]

Well, I wanted to do it peacefully after the Russo-Jap. War, but peredor thought it was too implausible.
Why not before, or during?

[perdedor99]

I do too-and mayb keep Philippins-but there are diplomatic ways too, you know.

i don't see either happening. the US was on the way to give independence to the PI in 1946 in OTL and not even WW2 stopped them. Why they want the place back? Same with Micronesia. Without PI, what purpose it serves? I don't think Japan will want to lose any more parts of their Empire.

[luakel]

Why not before, or during?
Well, Japan really doesn't have a reason until after it, when it needs money and wants the US on their good side. But if you can think of a credible POD, OK.

[perdedor99]

Well, I wanted to do it peacefully after the Russo-Jap. War, but perdedor thought it was too implausible.

They do not want to dismember their Empire. They just lost half of it and they will sell the rest? Too dishonorable to even think about it.

[luakel]

They do not want to dismember their Empire. They just lost half of it and they will sell the rest? Too dishonorable to even think about it.
Micronesia wasn't held in the same regard as Okinawa or Iwo Jima. The Japanese really didn't even care all too much about them until things started heating up with the US. Plus, the moderates will be in power in this TL.

[perdedor99]

Well, Japan really doesn't have a reason until after it, when it needs money and wants the US on their good side. But if you can think of a credible POD, OK.

But the US have no reason at all to get Micronesia in TTL. The PI is independent, commies have been defeated by 1955 in Asia, at least it seems like and they have bigger problems closer to home, like Argentina going Red in 1955. Getting a bunch of rocks with no strategic value by themselves except as big airfields, difficult to resupply and let me repeat without PI no usefullness. IMO no reason whatsover for the US to want them or for Japan to sell them. Well maybe if the US let them annex the PI and Indonesia as commonwealths of the Empire :D

[perdedor99]

Micronesia wasn't held in the same regard as Okinawa or Iwo Jima. The Japanese really didn't even care all too much about them until things started heating up with the US. Plus, the moderates will be in power in this TL.

actually no. Large plantations of Sugar were in the islands at the time. Also it was a place were a lot of poor japanese moved to start a new life in OTL. With the loss of Manchuria and part of Korea, this will most likley turn into the destination of many japanese that in OTL moved to Manchuria in search of a better life. Bigger japanese population than in OTL translate to more important than in OTL.

[luakel]

IMO no reason whatsover for the US to want them or for Japan to sell them.
The US will want bases on the route to PI to help during the Huk rebellion. And Japan will want to be on the US's good side.

[luakel]

actually no. Large plantations of Sugar were in the islands at the time.
And yet you just said that there is no reason for the US to want them.

[perdedor99]

The US will want bases on the route to PI to help during the Huk rebellion. And Japan will want to be on the US's good side.
I agree. They will lease land in Guam for example but sell the islands outright I doubt it. Like OTL Okinawa today or maybe PI before the exit of Subic.

[luakel]

I agree. They will lease land in Guam for example but sell the islands outright I doubt it. Like OTL Okinawa today or maybe PI before the exit of Subic.
What is really so bad about the US buying Micronesia (and Marianas)? I disagreed with you on the subject of Poland and Romania when we were doing the 2nd Russo-Jap. War, but I eventually gave in. Why can't you just agree to let me have one of my cliches in the TL?

[perdedor99]

And yet you just said that there is no reason for the US to want them.
The Us cares about sugar? While PR was one of the biggest producers of sugar during the 1940's to 1960's? And it's already theirs during that time. PLus Cuba is closer than the Marianas to get their sugar. Man, they really liked their sugar in the 194o's and 50's! :D

The only good reason they had is to keep a air bridge to the Philippines and with Japan leasing them space for bases or space in the already existing bases no reason to buy IMO.

[luakel]

The only good reason they had is to keep a air bridge to the Philippines and with Japan leasing them space for bases or space in the already existing bases no reason to buy IMO.
So what's really that wrong with briging the gap between "leasing" and "selling"?

[perdedor99]

What is really so bad about the US buying Micronesia (and Marianas)? I disagreed with you on the subject of Poland and Romania when we were doing the 2nd Russo-Jap. War, but I eventually gave in. Why can't you just agree to let me have one of my cliches in the TL?

Because is not realistic. There is no reason for the US to buy or for the Japanese to sell. And you're saying it. It's a cliche. The're is no need for the US to purchase that islands ITTL. Just look at the political atmosphere. They have bigger fish to fry closer to home than worry about purchasing some rocks. Trust me. I've been there, take Anderson base away and they die from boredom in a month. Excpet fot the Sand Castle and the disco they got there.

[perdedor99]

So what's really that wrong with briging the gap between "leasing" and "selling"?

They lose ownership. Is like the British. They lease land in the UK for US bases but I don't see them selling the land outright to the US. Same with Germany.

[Nicole]

I agree. They will lease land in Guam for example but sell the islands outright I doubt it. Like OTL Okinawa today or maybe PI before the exit of Subic.
They can't lease land in Guam- It's been American since the Spanish-American War.

[perdedor99]

They can't lease land in Guam- It's been American since the Spanish-American War.

LOL. I forgot this is not my TL. Yes. Guam is American. So less reason for the US to buy the rest of the islands. The base already exist. Guam! hah the memories of drinking in the strip joints in Agana Drive. The good all times.

[luakel]

Because is not realistic. There is no reason for the US to buy or for the Japanese to sell. And you're saying it. It's a cliche. The're is no need for the US to purchase that islands ITTL. Just look at the political atmosphere. They have bigger fish to fry closer to home than worry about purchasing some rocks. Trust me. I've been there, take Anderson base away and they die from boredom in a month. Excpet fot the Sand Castle and the disco they got there.
And there was really no reason for the US to keep the islands after WWII in OTL, but they did anyway...

perdedor, I am begging you to just let this go in the TL. Please?

[Nicole]

And there was really no reason for the US to keep the islands after WWII in OTL, but they did anyway...

perdedor, I am begging you to just let this go in the TL. Please?
The US didn't keep most of the islands (Micronesia, Palau), and if the Northern Mariana Islands had voted for independence, we'd have lost them too...

[Wendell]

Well, Japan really doesn't have a reason until after it, when it needs money and wants the US on their good side. But if you can think of a credible POD, OK.
Japan gets told to get out of China. It comes to the table with the U.S. Japan has to get out of China proper, but can keep Manchukuo if it will give Micronesia to the United States.

[Nicole]

Japan gets told to get out of China. It comes to the table with the U.S. Japan has to get out of China proper, but can keep Manchukuo if it will give Micronesia to the United States.
I don't see this happening.... why does the United States want Micronesia?

[luakel]

The US didn't keep most of the islands (Micronesia, Palau), and if the Northern Mariana Islands had voted for independence, we'd have lost them too...
Yes, but they were still part of the US for quite a few years.

[luakel]

I don't see this happening.... why does the United States want Micronesia?
Why not? I just don't get it....

[Nicole]

Yes, but they were still part of the US for quite a few years.
But we were preparing them for independence during that period, not simply holding on to them as colonies.