Mongols Overtake Europe; Byzantium. What happens?

[Hermanubis]

Never mind if they could (You doubt it? They thrashed damn near everyone else; don’t know how Frankish Knights should be able to fare any different…) Just say it does; What happens?

[NapoleonXIV]

Quite possibly, the Renaissance comes a century early. The Renaissance of the Italian cities in the late 14thc was largely sparked by the revival of trade and communication between Europe and China and that is largely due to the existence of the Mongol Empire.

Of course, that does assume that the Italian cities still exist and this depends. The Mongols didn't destroy cities and areas that didn't fight them all that hard and, by this time, were bringing substantial benefits with their Empire as well (not the least of which was being spared by the Mongols, who were seen as invincible by now by just about everyone). There is also the fact that the Mongols, by this time, were terribly overextended and just beginning to settle down to the long job of conquering China so a negotiated peace with tribute being paid is not an impossibility.

OTOH I don't see Constantinople as falling without a fight, and if the Mongols behave typically, we're not going to see the looting and subsequent spreading of Byzantine art and knowledge done by the Fourth Crusade but its simple destruction, and the culture/science of Europe will be impoverished a great deal over the next few centuries.

Another problem here is that the Black Death is still coming. I've read somewhere that the Plague is now seen as being a major reason for the fall of the Mongol Empire, where it originated; so I don't see anything here that will stop it.

[Rick Robinson]

This was only one small facet of the Renaissance - the volume of trade and contact along the Silk Road was always small, though the profits were fabulously high.

(Aside: The word "million" entered English and other European languages as a result of Marco Polo, called Il Milione on account of his wealth. Thus the word also had the connotation of "millionaire" before it came to mean the specific number 1,000,000.)

Plague or no plague, the impact of the Mongols is likely to be both shattering and temporary. Cities and castles will resist, be taken, and their inhabitants exterminated. But there's no equivalent to the Chinese imperial administrative structure for the Mongols to take over - certainly the HRE isn't! - so their rule will probably fragment and recede after a generation.

The main consequence, besides lots of unpleasant memories (and resulting cultural effects), will likely be a considerable reshuffling of the political map. New dynasties will emerge out of the struggle to throw off the Mongol yoke, with little or no continuity to previous ruling dynasties and their territories. This might lead to anything from greater balkanization to a "real" Empire in the west.


In practice, Mongol penetration far into Western Europe is iffy, not because Frankish knights would do better against them than anyone else did, but because the region is still pretty heavily forested c. 1200 - not very favorable ground either tactically or logistically for Mongol light cavalry.

-- Rick

[mattep74]

the book what if had a scenario about the mongols invading europe instead of going home to elect a new kahn. Basiclly its the end of the western civilisation

[Hermanubis]

^Well, the Russians didn’t do *That* bad….