Mosiac Earth 7: Age of New Imperialism, Chat thread

[Matt]

So we know what direction we're facing here:

Like I said we have a map of the two chief areas of play, North America, and Europe. The rest of the continents are pretty cut and dry, since claims follow OTL boundries, and in the case of South America, confined to coastal areas since the interiors are hell-holes anyways. Having these maps are more then these nations would have during the ISOT anyways.

Tomorrow we shall start then, already it seems as though interst is dropping off.

This thread is for discussion of in-game events and such. Please try to keep it on topic as much as possible. Remember that matters up upmost national secruity should be generally passed through PMs or emails. Battles are to be posted in the Battle thread.

And have fun!!! To a long lasting ME!!!

[Othniel]

Well we could stand for more detail in the East Indies. We should also have maps of the world at 1400 AD so that we can compare. CNA won't be happy with an Islamic Mali.

[Matt]

I'll concede the East Indies, but the one sour point about Aussey not being around, is I can't be certain what he has there. He likes to claim things by only letting himself knowing. You get my general point though.

As for a map of the world in 1400, I'll find one. That's pretty easy.

[Glen]

The Following Nations have Posted their Nations in the Official Thread:

Peru
Persia
Papal States
Philippines
La Plata
Skandistan
France
Draka
New Granada
Russia
USA
Colonies of Georgia & Carolina
Armenia-Trebizond
Julian Republic
Karelia
Crown Colony of New Gotland
Imperial Colony of New Gotland
UK
Japan
Navarre

These Countries only have posts in the Drafts section:
Austria
Oldenburg
Prussia
New Ablion
United Kingdom of Castile, Portugal, & Brazil
Sonora
Greece
Ionian Islands

These Countries have been mentioned elsewhere (chat?) but aren't posted:

Christian North Africa
Christian South Brazil
Rio Grande

These countries have at least one post in the Armed Forces thread:

USA
Georgia & Carolina
Austria
UK
Russia
Armenia-Trebizond
Karelia
Japan
La Plata
Papal States
Skandistan
Philippines
Persia
Oldenburg
Peru
Draka

I would like, before we begin play, to at least see all the Countries in the Official Nations Section and their Armed Forces in its appropriate thread. Othniel and Scarecrow especially we could use your posts. I'll move my Military draft over to the Armed Forces thread.

Just want us to actually do this in an orderly fashion.

[Glen]

I can't remember who, but someone mentioned grenades in one of their militaries. The grenade apparently wasn't used in the 19th century, and safe ones only came into existence circa WWI.

[Othniel]

Grenades could be invented a whole lot earlier than they were.

[Justin Pickard]

Right, my nation is the Offical thread - can someone help me with the armed forces?

[Glen]

Grenades could be invented a whole lot earlier than they were.

So could a lot of things. I'd say that if you want to use the types of grenades available in the 17th century, or homemade ones, go for it. If you want something more along the lines of those seen in the 20th century, you're outta luck, because even if they were technically feasible, they still weren't developed in the 19th century.

This goes back to my questions about what our 'tech' limits really mean. Are they what was in use? What could have been designed given the infrastructure and knowledge of the time? What was designed but not used in that fashion? How these questions are answered changes what I personally might do. If grenades like those developed around 1915 on are allowed because they were within the technologically possible, then I want them for my military. But where to draw the line? Can I build a pseudo-dreadnought using the design philosophy of the dreadnought but the materials and engine tech of circa 1890? I'd like that, too. I just need to know where we are drawing the lines so I can be creative within the parameters of the game.

[Othniel]

They were used during the Civil War.

[Glen]

They were used during the Civil War.

Yes, the Ketchum and Ellison Grenades. Neither of these seem particularly reliable, but if people want to use them, I would say they are certainly allowable.

The French also had some grenades, though these appear to be defensive grenades (meaning they had to be deployed from a protected position since you'd otherwise get caught in the blast).

Maybe I'll use the Ketchum; it doesn't always explode when you want it to, but it seems to do so less than when you don't want it to.

[Glen]

I see nothing from Ward regarding Canada. Who or what is in Canada?

[Glen]

Well, just for fun.

Probably pretty early on, New Granada is going to want to try to normalize relations with her neighbors.

On the North American side, I would propose an agreement with the USA, Sonora, Rio Grande, and the Dutch.

New Granada will ask for the following:

Respect of our current borders: This includes the Florida peninsula which they would want the USA to renounce claim to (heck, they didn't have much there in 1886 anyway, and you can talk to the Dutch about the panhandle. Tallahassee could be the Capitol of the rump Florida). Feeling gracious, the Granadans would possibly be willing to offer compensation for displaced Floridians who made the ISOT, and even limited immigration to Florida if some would like to move back (assuming this would be a small number, and it should be). This also would include acknowledgement of the entire Caribbean Sea as New Granadan territorial waters. We would also wish to see the Gulf of Mexico as a demilitarized zone in terms of naval vessels. In return for these, we would allow shipping from Gulf Nations to pass through the Caribbean with the same rights and protections as New Granadan ships, and allow use of the Panama Canal again under the same terms as New Granadan shipping. We would also consider under appropriate conditions allowing US naval vessels to transship through the canal at need. We would also suggest that the US, Sonora, and Rio Grande ratify the borders as they stand between their nations (these are the same as pre-ISOT, so shouldn't be too contentious). We would be willing to see the US and Dutch come to some sort of mutually agreeable relation with regard to the Dutch Southeast (again, no naval vessels in the Gulf, we would hope - we're willing to buy any that get ISOTed for the Dutch and Rio Grande). I have left out mention of the Crown Colonies of Georgia and Carolina simply because I have no idea what is likely to happen with them once the game starts. They are a real wild card. Basically, New Granada is willing to come to agreements that will guarantee her borders and peace, but will have to see what will happen.

We will want to hold talks with Sonora and Rio Grande regarding the Aztecs. We can't just leave them there, sacrificing people, so we will have to do something, but we are open to suggestions from our Northern neighbors.

We would of course like to establish peaceful relations with our Southern Neighbors the Viceroyalty of Peru and the Brazilian Reino Unito, especially regarding respecting our border. Again, access to the Panama Canal and Caribbean for commerce and any necessary naval movements could be negotiated in return. Similar concepts apply to all the Nations of the Americas, especially those descended from Spanish colonies, like La Plata. Perhaps the Spanish/Portugese nations of the Western Hemisphere could pull together into some sort of Hispanic Commonwealth.

These are the sorts of things New Granada will likely push for in the early days of the ISOT. Of course, you never know what will happen once the game begins....

[Glen]

Oh, expect Pope Beneficent V to want to speak to your Cardinals in the Americas immediately.

And of course, he and his counterpart in Rome will have to come to some sort of understanding....

[Othniel]

New Ablion would take some of the Aztecs. A dispresal method may have to be used.

[Glen]

New Ablion would take some of the Aztecs. A dispresal method may have to be used.

New Ablion seems a bit far from the action to want involvement with the Aztecs. And what exactly is a dispresal method?

[Othniel]

New Ablion seems a bit far from the action to want involvement with the Aztecs. And what exactly is a dispresal method?
Take a large hostile populace, and put them all over the place to prevent them from gathering in large amounts and getting revenge. New Ablion would like....immigrints. ;)

[Glen]

Take a large hostile populace, and put them all over the place to prevent them from gathering in large amounts and getting revenge. New Ablion would like....immigrints. ;)

Are you saying you want to IMPORT Pre-Colombian Aztecs?!? Oh, that is just....we might have to seriously consider your offer.... :eek:

[Othniel]

Are you saying you want to IMPORT Pre-Colombian Aztecs?!? Oh, that is just....we might have to seriously consider your offer.... :eek:
Slavvery isn't legal, don't worry.

[Lauranthalas]

Slavvery isn't legal, don't worry.
Good that Gulacks or Serves aren't slaves. We still consider them human. :D

[Othniel]

Good that Gulacks or Serves aren't slaves. We still consider them human. :D
I just know that some phildraphists will want a look at Aztec ruins before Cortez. Besides, I only want a token amount of them to relocate as to study langue, and to insure the stabillity of North America. Plus New Ablion could stand for New Granda as a trading partner, correct? I mean a stable central America= prosperous North America.

[Glen]

Slavvery isn't legal, don't worry.[QUOTE]

Glad to hear it. The thought did cross my mind....

[QUOTE]I just know that some phildraphists will want a look at Aztec ruins before Cortez. Besides, I only want a token amount of them to relocate as to study langue, and to insure the stabillity of North America. Plus New Ablion could stand for New Granda as a trading partner, correct? I mean a stable central America= prosperous North America.

Oh, I would say that we would make for a most excellent trade partner for any nation, especially in the Americas. And we are more than just a stable Central America, we are a prosperous one as well. And if you like sugar, we are really the ones you are going to want to deal with....we've got almost all of it in the World.

Ah, New Granada, the Sweet Spot of the World. And chocolate confections from Guyana can not be surpassed....

[Lauranthalas]

I just know that some phildraphists will want a look at Aztec ruins before Cortez. Besides, I only want a token amount of them to relocate as to study langue, and to insure the stabillity of North America. Plus New Ablion could stand for New Granda as a trading partner, correct? I mean a stable central America= prosperous North America.
somehow I cannot follow your thoughts. I was speaking about Russian Serves.

[Othniel]

Serfs. Yeah, but I was following my train of thought, not yours. The Reason why they are valuble is very different.

[Lauranthalas]

Serfs. Yeah, but I was following my train of thought, not yours. The Reason why they are valuble is very different.
I know. so I dont have to get to know why you quoted me for that?.

[Othniel]

I have my own mysterous and downight wierd ways.

[Glen]

If you would have sugar, all bow down to the power of New Granada!

Okay, I just couldn't stand having a thread that I hadn't said anything in recently....sorry.

[Imajin]

If you would have sugar, all bow down to the power of New Granada!

Okay, I just couldn't stand having a thread that I hadn't said anything in recently....sorry.
Could a trading agreement be negotiated? The Trapezuntines have developed a sweet tooth, after all- Though shipping all the way across the Med and the Black Sea could be a problem.

[Glen]

Could a trading agreement be negotiated? The Trapezuntines have developed a sweet tooth, after all- Though shipping all the way across the Med and the Black Sea could be a problem.

I am certain that we could find a sugar company willing to ship to you. Of course, it would be a bit expensive....

[Bulgaroktonos]

I thought it should be noted that the Map does not include Nepal and Bhutan as British Territories, which were traded for with Glen.

[Glen]

I thought it should be noted that the Map does not include Nepal and Bhutan as British Territories, which were traded for with Glen.

Which map are you referring to? Not that you aren't 100% right, you have Bhutan and Nepal (Go Gurkhas!).

[Glen]

BTW, what do people think of the Americas map I posted recently on the Map thread? Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

[DuQuense]

I see nothing from Ward regarding Canada. Who or what is in Canada?

Ward has turned Canada over to Me.

[Glen]

1886, hmmm....

We have both Benjamin Disraeli and Otto von Bismarck in ME7, don't we?

Now that's fun<vbg>!

[Condottiero]

I can't remember who, but someone mentioned grenades in one of their militaries. The grenade apparently wasn't used in the 19th century, and safe ones only came into existence circa WWI.
Who said Skandistany grenades were safe?
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Galbatorix]

BTW, what do people think of the Americas map I posted recently on the Map thread? Thoughts, comments, suggestions?
you are doing a great work. ?who has brasil and amazonia?

[Glen]

you are doing a great work. ?who has brasil and amazonia?

Thanks.

Civilizer has Northeastern Brazil as part of the United Kingdom (Reino Unido) of Castile, Portugal, and Brazil.

Othniel has Southern Brazil as a colony(?) of Christian North Africa, or as he now calls it, Mauri-Africa and Mauri-Brasil.

Amazonia is an NPC 1400 area.

[Galbatorix]

one question about NPC 1400 areas. anatolia is one of those areas, so we could have there a huge army of turk or a more dangereuse horde of mongolian and of course the city of bizantium. china is other NPC area ?does that mean that we have an organised state there?. and italy of the norht, i think the papal states of condo with a small army will have dificulties in advancing against the armies of milan, florence or genova.

[Glen]

one question about NPC 1400 areas. anatolia is one of those areas, so we could have there a huge army of turk or a more dangereuse horde of mongolian and of course the city of bizantium.

Yep. Hey, where was Tamurlane in 1400<eg>?

china is other NPC area ?does that mean that we have an organised state there?.

Yep.

and italy of the norht, i think the papal states of condo with a small army will have dificulties in advancing against the armies of milan, florence or genova.

If Condo wants to advance, that is. On the other hand, with late 19th Century weapons versus 1400 weapons, I don't think he'll have much problem defending his borders.

[Galbatorix]

tamerlan destroyed alepo, damasco and bagdad between 1401 and 1402. bayaceto i was sieging bizantium in those years and had to run to face tamerlan. he was defeated by tamerlan in ankara in 1402. !we can have a tamerlan in play!

[Glen]

tamerlan destroyed alepo, damasco and bagdad between 1401 and 1402. bayaceto i was sieging bizantium in those years and had to run to face tamerlan. he was defeated by tamerlan in ankara in 1402. !we can have a tamerlan in play!

Oh, and won't that be fun for the Mods<eg>!

[Galbatorix]

i suppose but i am going to find them soon. !i have persia!

[Imajin]

I was going to start out with a army of Turks attacking border fortifications outside Tigranocerta...
Hey, are we starting now?

[Glen]

I was going to start out with a army of Turks attacking border fortifications outside Tigranocerta...
Hey, are we starting now?

Not really certain. No one seems to have started, and I would like to give DuQuense a little time to get on his feet. But I do believe Tuesday was the day people were pushing to start the ISOT.

[Glen]

Note I have started a Shared Worlds Excused Absence thread to keep abreast of who will be absent from our games and when.

[Glen]

So, where are everyone's pre-ISOT posts? New Granada has several....

[Lauranthalas]

I have one

[Matt]

Ya know what?

Now that DQ has taken over Canada, this is the first time that I've played an ME game without Ward as one of my neighbors.

sniff sniff

[DuQuense]

?what are the Northern Borders of "New Ablion" I need to know if the Pacific Star is Traveling the TransContinental or the Coastal RR.

?And are all our Citizens returning [ala ME6] or just the Military ?

Are the ASBs splicing the transAtlantic Cable. or replacing it with a Single
wire to every Capital you had contect with.?

If the Cable is Respliced, It may take some time before any one realizes that Mr Smith of 1234 56 avenue ,isn't around to have a telegraph delerived to. Remenber the Western Union still hand Delivered.

[Glen]

Bulg, love the dig at the British regimental reorg in your Australia post.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Bulg, love the dig at the British regimental reorg in your Australia post.

Thanks. I figure it's tough enough on me, it's got to be just as hard for them, having all those regiments and then have them all get consolidated......

For right now, I'm just trying to introduce some of my recurring characters.

I'm gonna try and have each group mention where the next set of characters will be from. I.E. I'm gonna have some Gordon Highlanders next, and then they will mention somebody else, etc., etc.

And the Mahdi didn't die yet. Should be interesting to have a Mahdi with an Army, and no country running about in Kenya.....

[Matt]

?what are the Northern Borders of "New Ablion" I need to know if the Pacific Star is Traveling the TransContinental or the Coastal RR.
The border was made sorta purposely vague, since this is a frontier area, you and Oth need to agree on the specifics.

?And are all our Citizens returning [ala ME6] or just the Military ?

Military and Citizens who didn't immigrate away

Are the ASBs splicing the transAtlantic Cable. or replacing it with a Single
wire to every Capital you had contect with.?
If the Cable is Respliced, It may take some time before any one realizes that Mr Smith of 1234 56 avenue ,isn't around to have a telegraph delerived to. Remenber the Western Union still hand Delivered.

Going with A. The connections are there, but it may take some time for someone to realize it. I for one well be sending most of the Colonies messages the old fashion way at first.

[Othniel]

Calgagry to the sea coast almost a ruler straught line.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Now wait, you know what that last part means right? All those cables went to Britain, and from Britain on.......

"Going with A. The connections are there, but it may take some time for someone to realize it. I for one well be sending most of the Colonies messages the old fashion way at first."

[Matt]

Thats what I always thought was the dealy we were going for.

IE its NOT Washington has connections with Paris, London, Savannah, Georgetown, Berlin, Vienna etc etc. but The ASB line runs from Seattle to San Fran to Omaha to Washington to Georgetown to Savannah to London to Paris to Berlin.

[Othniel]

You know transalantic cables at this point if you are basing it off OTL. Those weren't built intil the early 1890s. The Hawaii one was done in 1908. If we are connecting capitals many of them are going to sudent discover a commucations room. Let's not forget that wiring tapping wasn't employed yet...

[Bulgaroktonos]

You know transalantic cables at this point if you are basing it off OTL. Those weren't built intil the early 1890s. The Hawaii one was done in 1908. If we are connecting capitals many of them are going to sudent discover a commucations room. Let's not forget that wiring tapping wasn't employed yet...

I actually really like that idea.

"Michael O'Toole walked into work at the Foreign Offices. He took the usual left down the hall, and saw an extra door. He turned back around, thinking that perhaps having skipped his cup of tea this morning that he was a wee bit disoriented. But no, the other side of the hall was just as it always should be, the guard standing at attention near the door to the Foreign Minister, which was certainly not down this hallway...."

[Othniel]

The Newspapers have the edge on everybody though.

[Othniel]

In just thirty years you get shortwave radio. (15 RL, or did we decide on three days?)

[Matt]

The sounds of the busy lines filled the room. Information flowed in from through out the country. Suddenly Micheal Smith stopped what he was doing. He ran to his supervisor with the unusual telegraph message.

"Sir I have here the sports returns."

"What so unusual about that?"

"Sir, they're from London..!"

[Matt]

In just thirty years you get shortwave radio. (15 RL, or did we decide on three days?)


3 days Oth so 10 years :D

[Othniel]

http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/tel/morse/morse.htm#I1

That should help some. Railroads were the first to use them. Anywhere you have a railroad you'll see it connected to the telegraph. Millitary didn't have it well establised till 1870, so that will be lagging. This though is the most intresting piece of the article.

Underwater and Long Distance Telegraphs
Lardner says Dr O'Shaughnessy laid the first telegraph submarine cable across the Hooghly in India, in 1839. It was attached to a chain, so perhaps it was slung above the river, not laid on its bed. At any rate, this is very early, and one wonders what kind of instruments were used for this apocryphal feat. In 1852, Alexander Jones thought an Atlantic Cable an impossibility, but a line to Europe via Bering Straits quite feasible. Samuel Morse, however, was sanguine about an Atlantic Cable at an early date. These things were thought about as soon as the telegraph arrived. Wheatstone had experimented with circuits under water in the early 1830's. Morse (and others) tried cables across rivers and lakes, but all these attempts met with only limited success. Either the insulation failed, or the cable was snagged by boat anchors and such.

The earliest American river crossings were made with the aid of high masts, not submarine cables. These were troublesome crossings. At St. Louis, there was a 160' mast on the Illinois shore, a 185' mast on Bloody Island, and a shot tower of equal height on the St. Louis side. The spans were 2700' and 2200', respectively. The crossing of the Hudson River by the telegraph was not easy. Ezra Cornell put wires with cotton and rubber insulation in a lead pipe across the Hudson at Fort Lee, near New York, on 20 November 1845. Ice ripped out the cable that winter. Then, the 2700' crossing was made by a long wire supported on high masts on the banks near West Point. When a ship came along, the wire was lowered beneath the surface, which was obviously not a permanent solution.

In 1847 a cable insulated with the new material gutta-percha was put across the river at Cortlandt Street, but it was soon torn out by an anchor. Two gutta-percha insulated cables were laid at Ft. Lee in 1850, and they survived. Soon, most river crossings were made by submarine cable rather than by masts, for example at St. Louis in 1852-3, Cape Girardeau, 3700 ft (1853), and across the Ohio at Paducah, 4200 ft, and Henderson, 3200 ft (1854) by Shaffner. The 3000 ft cable at New Orleans was made by Newall of London, and laid in 1854. In fact, the manufacture of submarine cables became a British specialty. The quality of these cables could not be imitated. Lardner gives a comprehensive list of early submarine cables in all parts of the world.

Gutta-percha is an insulating plastic compound chemically similar to rubber, but not elastic. It became famous when used to insulate the first submarine cables. It must be kept away from air and weather, which oxidizes and hardens it, causing it to crack and lose its continuity, but survives indefinitely under water. Creosote rapidly attacks gutta-percha. Rats were said to eat it when they burrowed into underground cables. Its great benefit was that it could be applied to wires in a continuous coating, giving an air-tight insulation that would not crack and admit moisture. Rubber was a competing material, especially for insulating wires used in the air, but gutta-percha was only completely replaced by thermoplastic insulation much later, which has similar characteristics but is stable and durable.

In 1850 a great event in telecommunications history took place. The first long submarine cable was laid between Dover and Cape Grisnez under the English Channel, 30 miles. This cable, promoted by John Watkins Brett and his brother, operated for only a few hours, but in 1851 a gutta-percha insulated cable with four conductors was laid between Dover and Calais, and this cable continued to function. This cable provided two double-needle links, with the usual earth return. Longer submarine cables, like the Atlantic Cable, had high capacitance, unlike the pole lines on land, and were very sluggish to charge and discharge. To overcome this, they were operated by polarized currents, and sensitive galvanometers were used as receivers. This made them very slow, and highly unsuitable for the Vail code. Submarine wires were no novelty in 1850, since Schlling had used them to explode mines as early as 1812, and the Hudson River was crossed by the telegraph in 1845, but the Channel crossing was a much more ambitious undertaking.

The first Atlantic cable, from Ireland to Newfoundland, was laid in 1858 by HMS Agamemnon and USS Niagara, but soon failed. High potentials produced by a Ruhmkorff induction coil were mistakenly used to try to overcome the distance, but they destroyed the insulation. A battery of 400 Daniell cells was later used, but the cable soon failed anyway. The operators were attempting to drive a Morse register with the cable. Success was finally achieved after the American Civil War when the huge P. S. Great Eastern (then known as Leviathan) was used to lay the cable, in 1865-66. William Thomson had invented the mirror galvanometer as a sensitive current detector, and it was used for testing as well as for 'speaking' -- that is, for sending messages. Apparently the instrument used for testing the cable was more sensitive, while the speaking instrument was faster, with less damping. Signalling was by current reversals, the only way a highly capacitive line can be successfully worked. The initial speed was about 8 words per minute (wpm, a word being five, or five and a half, characters). An excellent contemporary reference, the book by Russell published in 1865, gives minute details of the cable and its laying, but never once mentions the code used for messages. It was probably International Morse, with dots and dashes represented by opposite polarities. The siphon recorder, introduced in 1870, made a permanent record of the signal, and permitted an increase of speed to 15-17 wpm, which was quite good.

When I first considered the origin of the International Code, I neglected the underwater cables, and thought, erroneously, that it was devised shortly after 1900 to overcome the difficulties with radiotelegraphy. Then, I realized that the Atlantic Cable would have presented similar difficulties. It now appears that neither the difficulties of signalling underwater or in the air had anything to do with the change. To review the radio developments, we recall that Guglielmo Marconi succeeded in the Mission: Impossible to telegraph without wires, using Hertzian waves. The high-frequency oscillatory decay of currents in a circuit with a spark gap was used to create the waves, and a coherer, a device containing a conducting powder that oscillatory currents made conducting by causing the particles to cohere to one another, as a receiver. The coherer was in the circuit of a relay which drove a Morse register. It is doubtful if the Vail code could be used with this system, and I originally thought that this must have been the stimulus for the new code. Of course, we have seen that a Morse Code was already at hand and had been used for some years. It was already available for the cable and the radio.

Kelvin's experience with the Atlantic Cable led him to work out the theory of the propagation of signals on a transmission line, taking into account the electrostatic capacity and the inductance of the line. Edison and others working on the problem of transmitting rapid pulses were baffled by the distortion of the pulses by line capacity, which showed up at high speeds on land lines as it did on long submarine cables at much lower frequencies. The lack of theoretical knowledge made any real understanding or progress impossible. Later, Pupin found that adding inductance (coils) in series with the line, called loading solved the problem well enough to allow long-distance transmission of speech. Edison would have thought adding coils in series with the line ridiculous, since inductance slowed down signals just like capacitance. What he did not realize was that the effects cancelled each other out as far as signal distortion was concerned.

Elisha Gray showed that different frequencies propagated separately on a line and could be separately controlled. This was just an expression of Fourier's Theorem, now so well known, that any signal can be expressed as a superposition of signals of definite frequency. By equalizing a line, the speed of propagation of each frequency is made the same, so the different components remain in step, and the shape of the pulse does not change. The cost of this is that the attenuation, the rate of decrease of intensity, is increased, but the exchange is well worth it.

Short submarine cables can be worked with the usual telegraph instruments. An example were the 1865 cables from Punta Rasa on the Florida mainland to Key West, 133 miles, and from Key West to Moro in Cuba, 102 miles. The maximum depth of this cable was 845 fathoms. A heavier cable, 1-1/4 ton/mi with 2 ton/mi shore section, was used on the Gulf cable than on the interior waters cable, which was 3/4 ton/mile. The cables, as was typical, had copper cores surrounded by gutta-percha, heavily armored by steel wires, with fibre used as necessary between the layers. Cables were relatively maintenance-free and the rights-of-way easy to obtain, so they came to be used where one would expect a land line. Communication with Mexico, opened in 1851, was via a cable from Galveston to Vera Cruz, calling at Tampico, then a land line to Mexico City and Acapulco. The telegraph down the Pacific coast of South America travelled over cables along the coastal waters calling at the important cities. Cables also ringed the Caribbean. A cable was laid from Pernambuco in Brazil to Portugal, with connection to the cable links on the Atlantic coast of South America. By 1870, telecommunication was worldwide.

From the first, the telegraph was recognized as an instantaneous, long-distance means of communication. Though relaying was necessary, it could soon be performed automatically. A message tapped out at one point was received at once at a point a thousand miles away or more, without intervention, and over any route, however convoluted. The building of long telegraph lines soon became routine. A line from the States to California had been mooted since the early 1850's, but sectional rivalries retarded the realization. The Pacific Telegraph Act was passed 16 June 1860, and construction began 4 July 1861, Western Union undertaking the subsidized project. Two years had been allotted for construction. The line was complete from St. Joseph to Sacramento 15 November, only 4 months and 11 days later. There was no railroad, so the line went up the North Platte along the wagon trail, and through South Pass to the Salt Lake.

Perry McD. Collins had agitated for a line to Europe via the Bering Straits from late in 1861. In 1863, he submitted his proposals to Western Union, who accepted them, emboldened by the success of the Pacific Telegraph. The Russians were very interested in the project. They had completed the Moscow-Irkutsk portion of the 7000-mile line from Moscow to the mouth of the Amur River at Nikolayevsk, near the Chinese border. It was 2800 miles from New Westminster, B.C. to the Amur, with only a 178 mile cable across Bering Straits, as well as a 209 mile cable across the Gulf of Anadyr to make the route more direct. A fleet of 24 steam vessels was assembled, and completion was scheduled for 1867.

The route of the Russian Extension of the Intercontinental Pacific Telegraph Company (the subsidiary created by Western Union for the project) led up the Fraser, then to the Skeena via Lake Babine. From there, along the Stikine, Pelly and Yukon, and westward to Bering Straits. This was all well inland, away from the difficult fjords of the coast. On the Asian side, the line leaped the Gulf of Anadyr by cable, then directly southwestward over very thinly populated country via Okhotsk and Yamsk.

The line was completed to the Skeena, 850 miles from New Westminster, but then the news that the Atlantic Cable had been successfully laid. The long overland route could not compete with a relatively short, underwater cable, so the $3,000,000 project was abruptly abandoned. It was an heroic effort, now almost completely forgotten

[Glen]

Okay, I'm confused. So what is the deal with the telegraphs going to be?

BTW, in my tl, there was a transatlantic cable between Havana and Madrid. From Havana, messages could be passed on to Mexico City, Lima, and Rio de Janero. And of course there were countless other national systems, not just between capitols.

[Othniel]

Burg, why does Greece exsist if the Ottoman Empire wasn't majorly kept under? I think that Britain might see an intrest in setting up a puppet state in Jutland, or Copenhagen...Free trade to all the Baltic!

[Imajin]

Free trade to all the Baltic!
I agree! Free access out of the Baltic!

[Bulgaroktonos]

Burg, why does Greece exsist if the Ottoman Empire wasn't majorly kept under? I think that Britain might see an intrest in setting up a puppet state in Jutland, or Copenhagen...Free trade to all the Baltic!

Ha, access out of the Baltic...psshh.

As for a puppet state, I plan on having one. Skandistan.

Greece? I didn't make Greece. Though I intend to get on their good side.....

[Othniel]

Thing is that at the time they wouldn't start solving transalantic problems intil the 1890s. The ASBs would clear static, and that's about it. Your Madrid line wouldn't have the right tech for a while.

[Othniel]

Ha, access out of the Baltic...psshh.

As for a puppet state, I plan on having one. Skandistan.

Greece? I didn't make Greece. Though I intend to get on their good side.....
The British helped form Greece. There are other examples of Britian allowing for stronger states to be broken up into smaller states in order to bully them around.

[Imajin]

As for a puppet state, I plan on having one. Skandistan.
But what if, by the time your diplomats realize what's going on and that Skandistan could be better than Karelia or Oldenburg for control of the Baltic, much of Sweden and Norway is already under Karelian occupation?
Of course, I may be severely underestimating the Skandistani Military here.

[Bulgaroktonos]

The British helped form Greece. There are other examples of Britian allowing for stronger states to be broken up into smaller states in order to bully them around.

I mean in the ISOT. We may have made Greece in our TL, but I'm not in charge of this Greece. I'm not sure what you are asking me....

I agree, there are examples like you cite, but there aren't many examples of Britain allowing weak states to gobble up other weak states making them stronger in the process.....

Then Britain can't bully them around as much.....

[Othniel]

I mean in the ISOT. We may have made Greece in our TL, but I'm not in charge of this Greece. I'm not sure what you are asking me....

I agree, there are examples like you cite, but there aren't many examples of Britain allowing weak states to gobble up other weak states making them stronger in the process.....

Then Britain can't bully them around as much.....
I'm just saying I brather not have Skandistine in Jutland. Not conquer it, but just put someone more .... controlable in power.

[Imajin]

I'm just saying I brather not have Skandistine in Jutland. Not conquer it, but just put someone more .... controlable in power.
Perhaps you can engineer a break up of Skandistan into Al-Daniya, Al-Sivioi, and Al-Noriwaya?

[Matt]

Thing is that at the time they wouldn't start solving transalantic problems intil the 1890s. The ASBs would clear static, and that's about it. Your Madrid line wouldn't have the right tech for a while.


You're forgetting a key fact Oth. When we all get ISOT, all those delicate trans-oceanic cables well be cut. <snip>

Anyways here my proposed ASB telegraph line.

[Othniel]

Mauri-Africa's line would go to the capital right? We are over by the strait in the city of Tangier. ;)

[Imajin]

Though I'm glad to see New East Vienna and Andorra Nova hooked up, can't you run a line to Trebizond and Viipuri? For Viipuri, it would only take a VERY short jump from St. Petersburg...

[Othniel]

Did Ward Claim Corsica with France?

[Matt]

Mauri-Africa's line would go to the capital right? We are over by the strait in the city of Tangier. ;)


Internal cable lines are still iin operation

Map updated.

[Othniel]

Internal cable lines are still iin operation

Map updated.
Works for me. Now first piece of business for Mauriafrica, reinstuting a friendly Mali as soon as

1) They find out it is an Islamic Region.
&
2) Draka makes millitiant threats.

[Ward]

Did Ward Claim Corsica with France?




Yes i Did :D

[Othniel]

Sardinia though will be a race. Hm... MA will be busy in the first few weeks.

[perdedor99]

Works for me. Now first piece of business for Mauriafrica, reinstuting a friendly Mali as soon as

1) They find out it is an Islamic Region.
&
2) Draka makes millitiant threats.

Draka will have their hands full putting the natives from Tanganika,Katanga and the Congo under the yoke. Not enough time to make threats to anyone except if the opportunity present itself. :D

[Othniel]

Draka will have their hands full putting the natives from Tanganika,Katanga and the Congo under the yoke. Not enough time to make threats to anyone except if the opportunity present itself. :D
You have an internationally conected telegraph. I think you'll manage.

[Glen]

Why are the ASBs connecting so many Telegraphs to Bogota? In New Granada, there are three capitals, Havana, Cartagena, and Guatemala Antigua. I would suggest Havana would connect to the North American and European telegraphs, and Cartegena to the South American ones through the ASBs. Also, is there one going through the capital for the Republic of Rio Grande? Of course, New Granada has its own extensive lines....

[Glen]

MBarry,

Where is Beaufort, Georgia?

[perdedor99]

Hope you guys like Thomas Jackson. Will try to make him a regular as much as possible.

[Glen]

Hope you guys like Thomas Jackson. Will try to make him a regular as much as possible.

Oh yes, I would like that quite a bit <enigmatic smile>.

[Glen]

Hooray, Bulg finally mentioned Gurkhas!

You know what is ironic? I am really more of an Anglophile, and it looks like in this game I might be pitted against the Brits. Strange how life works out....

[Lauranthalas]

You're forgetting a key fact Oth. When we all get ISOT, all those delicate trans-oceanic cables well be cut. <snip>

Anyways here my proposed ASB telegraph line.
my capital is moscow not petrograd

[Glen]

MBarry,

Where is Beaufort, Georgia?

Ah, I think I begin to understand. You combined South Carolina with Georgia instead of North Carolina, and this is Beaufort, SC?

[Condottiero]

I mostly agree with the proposed lines, but Skandistan does not have telegraph! They use signal towers to communicate between provintial governors and military commanders.

[Othniel]

The ASBs placed it there. They are getting it whether they like it or not!

[Condottiero]

Someone is going to be burned in al-Qobenaqa, that sort of witchcraft will not be tolerated...

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :eek: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Othniel]

Someone is going to be burned in al-Qobenaqa, that sort of witchcraft will not be tolerated...

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :eek: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
But its the rage in Istanbul! And Bagdad, and Mecca, and Cario...

[Matt]

Ah, I think I begin to understand. You combined South Carolina with Georgia instead of North Carolina, and this is Beaufort, SC?

I screwed it up. Not sure why. I'm growing increasingly not fond of this Crown Colony thing. I'm just going play them as the proper states that they are! IE. I'm just the US, but now with north and south carolina, georgia, tennesee, alabama and mississippi.

[Glen]

I screwed it up. Not sure why. I'm growing increasingly not fond of this Crown Colony thing. I'm just going play them as the proper states that they are! IE. I'm just the US, but now with north and south carolina, georgia, tennesee, alabama and mississippi.

Sans their Gulf Coast parts, which are still held by Oth as part of the Dutch Southwest, I believe.

Still, having those back in the Union will take a lot of pressure off your government.

[Bulgaroktonos]

I screwed it up. Not sure why. I'm growing increasingly not fond of this Crown Colony thing. I'm just going play them as the proper states that they are! IE. I'm just the US, but now with north and south carolina, georgia, tennesee, alabama and mississippi.

DAMN YOU MBARRY!

[Matt]

:D :D

Hey you still have allegence from Canada, Australia, India, Kenya, Greece, and Suez, what's an underdevolped American Colony to ya? Canada is much better off.

[Othniel]

So the race between the big two starts.

[Othniel]

I'm dropping West Florida

[Matt]

<snatch>


:D

[Othniel]

It's just not worth keeping. I would have dropped it all.

[Glen]

I smell a friggin' conspiracy<f>!

But do what you will. I stand by my previous claims and won't stoop to trying to grab more territory simply to improve my position in the game. The Kingdom of New Granada's honor will remain unblemished....yadda, yadda, yadda...<g>

[Glen]

On a serious note. We are supposed to be ISOTing in 13 1/2 hours more or less. Please, MBarry and Othniel, decide who has what and say so now so I can update my Americas map appropriately.

BTW, when you said West Florida, did you mean just the panhandle of the State of Florida, or the old British/Spanish designation of West Florida, which stretched to New Orleans almost?

[Othniel]

I smell a friggin' conspiracy<f>!

But do what you will. I stand by my previous claims and won't stoop to trying to grab more territory simply to improve my position in the game. The Kingdom of New Granada's honor will remain unblemished....yadda, yadda, yadda...<g>
I could just give him the whole nation.

[Glen]

That is between you and him and Bulg.

[Matt]

you stop your complaining Glen and look at all those maps you now can use <G>

[Glen]

you stop your complaining Glen and look at all those maps you now can use <G>

<Wipes drool off chin> Yes, oh map master....

Seriously though, lets get our nations locked down BEFORE the ISOT, please.

[Matt]

Yes ma'lord...

The formerly Dutch South West area of "West Flordia" are now part of the USA States of Alabama, and Mississippi. The remander of the panhandle is unsettled.

Seminoles I guess then?

[Condottiero]

I screwed it up. Not sure why. I'm growing increasingly not fond of this Crown Colony thing. I'm just going play them as the proper states that they are! IE. I'm just the US, but now with north and south carolina, georgia, tennesee, alabama and mississippi.
It's a pity I liked them.

[Matt]

It's a pity I liked them.


They were different, but I just couldn't work anything out with them. In the end they would just probably revert to Bulg's control. <shrugs>

Besides the part that really makes my USA different is the South. Reconstruction took a different course in TTL. It's black population is alot better off the OTL, and such.

[Glen]

Yes ma'lord...

The formerly Dutch South West area of "West Flordia" are now part of the USA States of Alabama, and Mississippi. The remander of the panhandle is unsettled.

Seminoles I guess then?

Okay, so you are just making Alabama and Mississippi whole, then?

There wasn't much in Panhandle Florida in 1400, Seminoles came as a result of the wars up north in the 1800s mostly. If I might make a suggestion, why not take that as well, then you'd have a Panhandle Florida, which actually contains the State Capitol, Tallahassee.

If not, it would just be pretty empty and we can settle what to do with it post-ISOT.

Just let me know and I will redo the map. I'm also slightly modifying South America to better represent the Viceroyalty of Peru using the template you posted.

[Matt]

Okay, I'll take the whole sehbang. I can't wait to see that said state government freak the hell out though.

[Glen]

Okay, I'll take the whole sehbang. I can't wait to see that said state government freak the hell out though.

Yeah, that actually might be fun to play out. That is why I suggested it. And it actually gives most Floridians of the time someplace to go back to if they're stranded by the ISOT. Most of them lived in the Northern part of the state back then, anyway.

[Glen]

One last comment. MBarry, Oth, if you would post amended versions of your countries posts in the Posting of Nations section, I think that would be very useful.

Why am I in particular being nit-picking about all this? Previous experience. I stepped into ME6 in progress and had to try to sort through a lot of conflicting information to figure out what the situation really was before I could really start playing. I just want to save others from having to do the same.

If we keep the Postings and Maps up to date, that will help a lot, I believe.

Enough of my ranting....12 1/2 hours to ISOT.

[Matt]

I've already deleted the Crown Colony info from the Armed Forces and Posting of Nations thread, as well as the two posts in the Americas thread. I'm working on getting a list of what we still need in the Post your nation thread, I'll get that up, then edit my USA entry. The Armed Forces well stay the same, but I'll have some new population figures. Thats the biggest change.

[Matt]

Or you need to post the your countries in the stickied thread.

Othniel

Oldenberg Germany
New Abilon
Mauri Africa
Mauri-Basil

Scarecrow

Republic of Sonora
Republic of Rio Grande

Civilizer

United Kingdom of Castile, Portigul and Brazil

[Glen]

Population adjustments?

The Prussian Population is still listed in the Posting of Nations Sticky as in the 90+ million. I think this needs to be about halved.

The Oldenburg Confederation is listed as having only 2.9 million people population. I'm not that familiar with the Oldenburg possessions, but this seems really low. Any comments?

[Othniel]

Population adjustments?

The Prussian Population is still listed in the Posting of Nations Sticky as in the 90+ million. I think this needs to be about halved.

The Oldenburg Confederation is listed as having only 2.9 million people population. I'm not that familiar with the Oldenburg possessions, but this seems really low. Any comments?
Acualty compared to my research that is higher than it should be... I gave it about 1 million more people.

[Matt]

Population adjustments?

The Prussian Population is still listed in the Posting of Nations Sticky as in the 90+ million. I think this needs to be about halved.

The Oldenburg Confederation is listed as having only 2.9 million people population. I'm not that familiar with the Oldenburg possessions, but this seems really low. Any comments?


Bulg's taken care of the it. He's PMed GP about it.


I'm no expert on Europe in this time period but it seems that Oldenburg should have at least 5 million.

[DuQuense]

Seminoles I guess then?

acually "Creeks" Thro as they were pushed south all the Tribes merged into what Whe call "Semioles" They do keep the internal Distictions within the Tribe.

There is a Story>

A steamship Company needed to hire a RadioTelagrapher, The Ad told the Applicants to report to Room XXX at XXXX hrs.

The next morning the room was full of men, talking & waiting to be interviewed.
In walked a young man, stopped , Listened for a minute, and walked over to a door in the office and stepped in.
A Few minutes later the Boss came out of the Room and said " The Position is Full. Thank you for coming"
When some of the men complained that they had been waiting for a hour, and the Young man had just got here--
The Boss replied
"Yes, and for a hour, i've been sitting in that room sending -If you want the job, come in."

I've heard that the good Code Operators -hear- the Code as letters, and the Best actually hear Words, like it was Speech, and can reconize the sender. as different as different speakers sound.


So In all the Communication Offices of the various State Departments, there is a Door to what they thought was a Closet, inside is several desks with telagraph keys , with their wires going into the Wall.

Lets hope there are some Good Code operators in the main Room.

[Othniel]

Bulg's taken care of the it. He's PMed GP about it.


I'm no expert on Europe in this time period but it seems that Oldenburg should have at least 5 million.
I was only getting 1.4 million when I did my calculations.

[Galbatorix]

?when do we start? ?tomorrow?

[Glen]

?when do we start? ?tomorrow?

We start at 12:01 AM EST Thursday (IE, at midnight tonight by US East Coast time).

[Justin Pickard]

Please help me with my Greek armed forces, people - I have no idea what the composition should be...

I'm no military historian!

[Matt]

Please help me with my Greek armed forces, people - I have no idea what the composition should be...

I'm no military historian!

Justin tell me a few things real quick.

What's your total population?
What are you expected opponents?
Where would the principal area of conflict you can predict?
Is your national strategy defensive in nature or offensive?

[Justin Pickard]

Population: 7,500,000

I thought:

Armed Forces: 175,000 men, 18 battleships, 2 'prototype' airship-type-things (non-rigid)

Expected opponents: one of the Germanies, Armenia, possibly the Two Scillies...

Area of conflict: Balkans, Turkey, Colonial Africa

Strategy: primarily defensive, emphasis on small-scale naval action (blocades etc.) and espionage.

[Matt]

A'ight...

On the land side of the house, you'd be better off with a small, professional army, augmented with British "advisors." About 80,000 organized primarily with infantry regiments. Strong border fortifications...

For the Naval house, you'll need Bulg.

I got me copy of Naval Warfare 1815-1914 in the mail today :D

[Glen]

ISOT in T minus 6 hours! Are you ready? Is everything set? Will you be there when the lights in the sky start and the world is turned upside down?

See ya....

[Glen]

Well, MBarry and Oth's recent land switches have changed the geopolitics of Southeastern North America a wee bit. Have to figure what will happen next<g>.

Interestingly, without an army popping out of nowhere, the New Granadans probably won't immediately start telegraphing America or Britain. They will however, be very, very anxious to contact New Spain and find out where they are (or aren't, as the case may be<g>).

So when they try to telegraph New Spain, what will happen? Will they just get no answer, since the capitol is now 1400 AD Aztecs? Will it get forwarded to one or both of the fragment states of Mexico, Sonora and Rio Grande? If they get it, will they also go to the State capitals in the US that used to belong to New Spain, will it go to the Dutch? And when the telegraphs arrive, have the ASBs magically translated the code so that it is comprehensible (I can't imagine every timeline developed morse code), maybe even translated the language? How does this whole game of telegraph work, anyway?

[Matt]

Well, MBarry and Oth's recent land switches have changed the geopolitics of Southeastern North America a wee bit. Have to figure what will happen next<g>.

Interestingly, without an army popping out of nowhere, the New Granadans probably won't immediately start telegraphing America or Britain. They will however, be very, very anxious to contact New Spain and find out where they are (or aren't, as the case may be<g>).

So when they try to telegraph New Spain, what will happen? Will they just get no answer, since the capitol is now 1400 AD Aztecs? Will it get forwarded to one or both of the fragment states of Mexico, Sonora and Rio Grande? If they get it, will they also go to the State capitals in the US that used to belong to New Spain, will it go to the Dutch? And when the telegraphs arrive, have the ASBs magically translated the code so that it is comprehensible (I can't imagine every timeline developed morse code), maybe even translated the language? How does this whole game of telegraph work, anyway?


By freak coincidence all out our timeline's version of telegraph code is magic exactly the same as OTL Morse code. Your preexisting lines that went to Mexico City well be cut, and since you seem to be more divergent from most of your neighbors, all non-ASB line out of your country well be cut. I suppose you can find out via trial and error. The less TL are divergent, the higher the chance of telegraph lines being laid in the same locals.

Telegraphs are a patchwork system, so it's dependant on some operater somewhere on the chain to pass it along, until it reaches it's final destination.

Basically it all depends on how vast your telegraph offices discover those mysterious new rooms marked "Internationals"

[Glen]

By freak coincidence all out our timeline's version of telegraph code is magic exactly the same as OTL Morse code. Your preexisting lines that went to Mexico City well be cut, and since you seem to be more divergent from most of your neighbors, all non-ASB line out of your country well be cut. I suppose you can find out via trial and error. The less TL are divergent, the higher the chance of telegraph lines being laid in the same locals.

Telegraphs are a patchwork system, so it's dependant on some operater somewhere on the chain to pass it along, until it reaches it's final destination.

Basically it all depends on how vast your telegraph offices discover those mysterious new rooms marked "Internationals"

So the codes work, no language translation. My interior lines will be quite good, but no contact with other nations (maybe Lima, Peru? The Viceroyalty of Peru seems somewhat more parallel in many ways than other tls involved). But okay, so no international contact until someone finds the "Internationals Room" Can we get a description of what this room will be like? Will the telegraphs be labeled? Will telegraphs coming through THESE lines be translated? I don't have a particular preference, I just want to know what will happen.

New Granada will probably find them pretty early, the ISOT occurs near the end of the Granadan business day (much later due to the long break in midafternoon).

[Matt]

Well the same system of dots and dash that is used OTL well be used, but if you transmit something in Spanish, and Mobile recieves it, the letters well still spell out something in spanish.

I imagine, at least at first, that these "International Rooms" well be in a Foreign Ministry Office, near where ever the rest of the telegraphs come through. Or maybe at some central office of the Western Union-equivalant.

[DuQuense]

I was think that they would be in the Communication Area of the State Department [Foriegn Ministry] with the other end somewhere in Your Embassy

Remember before telefonos and Radio, Ambassadors were much more powerful than they are now.

And while President Garfield may have appointed Mr Gore in TL 1, and england is now TL2 with Mr Bush , To the English in TL2 Bush is the Voice of America.

If like new Granada you don't have a Embassy, maybe they appear in one of the component Embassy [Venezula? Columbia] While Sonara & Rio Grande
both have ends in the Mexican Bulding

[Imajin]

What about Karelia, which in the 1880s was part of Russia (GD of Finland)? Do they get anyone's Embassy?

[DuQuense]

What about Karelia, which in the 1880s was part of Russia (GD of Finland)? Do they get anyone's Embassy?

As this Islam Sweden doesn't have Telegraph..............

Finland was part of Sweden once.


And Remember your Embassies are part of Your Country, not the Country there are in.

[Imajin]

As this Islam Sweden doesn't have Telegraph..............
Good point... That will confuse people... "The Swedes stopped speaking Swedish!"

Hm, how long do you think it will take the ITS Andronicus II to get to Cosntantinople?

[Glen]

MBarry, you wonderful human being you! You gave me Theodore Roosevelt to talk to!!!! My all time favorite past future president! This is better than the Secretary of State, so I will ignore the snub of an undersecretary. ;)

[Matt]

MBarry, you wonderful human being you! You gave me Theodore Roosevelt to talk to!!!! My all time favorite past future president! This is better than the Secretary of State, so I will ignore the snub of an undersecretary. ;)


I realize the other day that I had TR in my US, who is only the best person ever in history. Unfortunatly his too young to be the full SecState, but I needed to work him in there somehow.

If you didn't make that post about your ambassador I was going to have him burst through a barracade of Marines, and come knocking on the embassy door ;)

[Othniel]

Great take on things MBarry. But you are going to have to better than that. Theese guys have enough stuff to buy Switzerland and Ireland without Blinking.

[Glen]

Please note that MBarry has instructed me that my dates are slightly off. For the Western hemisphere the ISOT occurred on March 31st, not April 1st. So all posts from me up until now should be considered to have occurred on the day before that listed.

All future posts will have the corrected dates.

[Othniel]

Please note that MBarry has instructed me that my dates are slightly off. For the Western hemisphere the ISOT occurred on March 31st, not April 1st. So all posts from me up until now should be considered to have occurred on the day before that listed.

All future posts will have the corrected dates.
Noted, duly noted. :)

[Matt]

Great take on things MBarry. But you are going to have to better than that. Theese guys have enough stuff to buy Switzerland and Ireland without Blinking.


Ah yes but I hope these gold reserves weren't in Holland. And how valuble is company stock, when the companies don't exist anymore :cool:

Mr. Bartlett doesn't really believe their claims right now.

[Othniel]

Ah yes but I hope these gold reserves weren't in Holland. And how valuble is company stock, when the companies don't exist anymore :cool:

Mr. Bartlett doesn't really believe their claims right now.
20 Standard pounds of gold are about to be put on the man's desk. He believies npw that you are British men with strange acents over stepping your boundaries. The colonies were confined to the coast as this is sovreign Native American territory. 1 million Dutchmen would hardly be something to triffle with. If you want to continue writting it, they brought along several different papers, most in Latin.

[Condottiero]

Do we have a battle thread? A group of Skandistanians have invaded Oldenburg.

[Glen]

Do we have a battle thread? A group of Skandistanians have invaded Oldenburg.

We do now. Enjoy.

[Othniel]

My civillian officers are better armed, but sense this is a border town, and the Danish Muslims. A smith and Wesson shoot out against flint locks? Of corse the police force would be much smaller. I must contimplat this...

[Ward]

so all of are population comes with us even if it was in areas that did not come over. Yes or No .

[Othniel]

No. Just the ones in the terriories ISOTed, and the ones suriving in other countries as part of the millitary.

[Imajin]

Hm, are Embassies in non-ISOTed countries brought along? That is, is the Armenian-Trapezuntine Embassy in the Ottoman Empire now in the Byzantine Empire?

[Matt]

No. Just the ones in the terriories ISOTed, and the ones suriving in other countries as part of the millitary.


That's correct. IE, I've lost Texas during the ISOT. Now I don't have Texans, unless they were outta state, say.. New York, or serving in the military.

[Othniel]

I don't think so...

[Matt]

Hm, are Embassies in non-ISOTed countries brought along? That is, is the Armenian-Trapezuntine Embassy in the Ottoman Empire now in the Byzantine Empire?


No... your embassies in Non-ISOTed countries(or an comparable nation) are gone. Their staffs however are snug as a bug back home.

[Othniel]

BTW, what do you think of the Dutch Speach MBarry?

[Imajin]

Hm, how long do you think it will take the ITS Andronicus II to get to Cosntantinople?
Still need an answer.

[Matt]

BTW, what do you think of the Dutch Speach MBarry?


Very confusing :p I need to fire up babelfish.

Imajin:

A couple days to a week methinks

[Imajin]

A couple days to a week methinks
So with three days to one day, tomorrow afternoon (Here it's 6:26, if you're not in EST) would be good to post the post? Hm, looking at history, I believe the city is still under Turkish seige.
"Sir, the Turks are attacking the city. However, the banners we can see from here certainly aren't Russian?"
"Well, then what are they?"
"Have you ever seen the famous painting, "City at Seige"?"
"Yes, it's by an Armenian painter there while the City was still Greek- Why do you ask?"
"That's what's out there. It's the City at Seige."
^
|
Preview of what I'm planning, for now.

[Matt]

Typing messages in telegraph form is fun <g>

[Lauranthalas]

Typing messages in telegraph form is fun <g>
i dont think so. I cannot type with the <>

[Ward]

Were can I find a map of Europe now .

[Glen]

TR is about two years too young at the time of ISOT to be elected to the Senate (has to be 30 years old), but maybe they were looking ahead when they got him into State<g>.

BTW, an easy reason why TR would be in the State department instead of Cattle Ranching in the Dakotas would be to butterfly out the deaths of his mother and wife (or at least his wife). That would probably keep him on the East Coast and in National politics.

Yeah TR....hmm, what was the order of succession to the Presidency in 1886 again?

[Matt]

TR is about two years too young at the time of ISOT to be elected to the Senate (has to be 30 years old), but maybe they were looking ahead when they got him into State<g>.

BTW, an easy reason why TR would be in the State department instead of Cattle Ranching in the Dakotas would be to butterfly out the deaths of his mother and wife (or at least his wife). That would probably keep him on the East Coast and in National politics.

Yeah TR....hmm, what was the order of succession to the Presidency in 1886 again?

Damn!

Make him a promiment member of the House then. I can up with the idea as I was drifting to sleep last night, and thus couldnt double check things like age requirement.

I don't think there was a established Line of Sucession back then, after the VP.

[Othniel]

I don't believe the sucession amendment was passed yet.

[Matt]

And Abe Lincoln was never shot, making the last president to die in office... Harrison I think.

[Othniel]

No Andrew Johnson Presidentcy? Your TL sounds like paradise for the time. :)

[Glen]

Damn!

Make him a promiment member of the House then. I can up with the idea as I was drifting to sleep last night, and thus couldnt double check things like age requirement.

I don't think there was a established Line of Sucession back then, after the VP.

House would be fine<g>. You know, there was a Succession Act passed OTL 1886 that made the order President, Vice-President, Secretary of State....

So, we get TR to fill the empties SecState position. Then somehow the President and VP suffer an unfortunate accident....then it is TR uber alles!

[Matt]

House would be fine<g>. You know, there was a Succession Act passed OTL 1886 that made the order President, Vice-President, Secretary of State....

So, we get TR to fill the empties SecState position. Then somehow the President and VP suffer an unfortunate accident....then it is TR uber alles!

MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

of course I'm pretty sure that law was passed as a result of Garfield's death.

[Matt]

Wiki says different: The Act of 1886 was passed as the result of the death of a Veep. There was an 1792 act the existed before that making the order: VP, Senate President Pro Tempore and the Speak of the House.

[Justin Pickard]

Um...how successful would attempts to 'civilize' the surrounding natives by releasing C19th tech and such into their environment be?

[Matt]

Oh God...

I can only imagine the horrible things that would insue.

[DuQuense]

s your Embassies are part of your Sovereign Territories I Isoted Canadian Embassy Staff into the Existing Embassies. My Telegraphs from my Foriegn office to my Embassies, or from yours to your Embassies.

IF you want to contact me, You have to do it THRU the Ambassador . Either the Canadian one in your capital, or your Ambassador in Canada.

If Your Country didn't have one, the ASB's picked one from the nearest NPC that did.

This means that the Scadiviastan Embassy to Turkey?? is now in Canada.

[DuQuense]

While reseaching Canada I came across a refernce to Bell inventing the telefone in Canada 1875 --Pre ISOT

In the 1870s, two inventors Elisha Gray and Alexander Graham Bell both independently designed devices that could transmit speech electrically (the telephone). Both men rushed their respective designs to the patent office within hours of each other, Alexander Graham Bell patented his telephone first. Elisha Gray and Alexander Graham Bell entered into a famous legal battle over the invention of the telephone, which Bell won.

The telegraph and telephone are both wire-based electrical systems, and Alexander Graham Bell's success with the telephone came as a direct result of his attempts to improve the telegraph.

When Bell began experimenting with electrical signals, the telegraph had been an established means of communication for some 30 years. Although a highly successful system, the telegraph, with its dot-and-dash Morse code, was basically limited to receiving and sending one message at a time. Bell's extensive knowledge of the nature of sound and his understanding of music enabled him to conjecture the possibility of transmitting multiple messages over the same wire at the same time. Although the idea of a multiple telegraph had been in existence for some time, Bell offered his own musical or harmonic approach as a possible practical solution. His "harmonic telegraph" was based on the principle that several notes could be sent simultaneously along the same wire if the notes or signals differed in pitch.

By October 1874, Bell's research had progressed to the extent that he could inform his future father-in-law, Boston attorney Gardiner Greene Hubbard, about the possibility of a multiple telegraph. Hubbard, who resented the absolute control then exerted by the Western Union Telegraph Company, instantly saw the potential for breaking such a monopoly and gave Bell the financial backing he needed. Bell proceeded with his work on the multiple telegraph, but he did not tell Hubbard that he and Thomas Watson, a young electrician whose services he had enlisted, were also exploring an idea that had occurred to him that summer - that of developing a device that would transmit speech electrically.

Model of Alexander Graham Bell's Telephone

This model of Bell's first telephone (right) is a duplicate of the instrument through which speech sounds were first transmitted electrically (1875).

While Alexander Graham Bell and Thomas Watson worked on the harmonic telegraph at the insistent urging of Hubbard and other backers, Bell nonetheless met in March 1875 with Joseph Henry, the respected director of the Smithsonian Institution, who listened to Bell's ideas for a telephone and offered encouraging words. Spurred on by Henry's positive opinion, Bell and Watson continued their work. By June 1875 the goal of creating a device that would transmit speech electrically was about to be realized. They had proven that different tones would vary the strength of an electric current in a wire. To achieve success they therefore needed only to build a working transmitter with a membrane capable of varying electronic currents and a receiver that would reproduce these variations in audible frequencies.

On June 2, 1875, Alexander Graham Bell while experimenting with his technique called "harmonic telegraph" discovered he could hear sound over a wire. The sound was that of a twanging clock spring.

Bell's greatest success was achieved on March 10, 1876, marked not only the birth of the telephone but the death of the multiple telegraph as well. The communications potential contained in his demonstration of being able to "talk with electricity" far outweighed anything that simply increasing the capability of a dot-and-dash system could imply.

Alexander Graham Bell's notebook entry of 10 March 1876 describes his successful experiment with the telephone. Speaking through the instrument to his assistant, Thomas A. Watson, in the next room, Bell utters these famous first words, "Mr. Watson -- come here -- I want to see you."

?:rolleyes: Can whe start over with International Switchboard Telefones in our Embassies? :p :D :) :rolleyes:

[Othniel]

While reseaching Canada I came across a refernce to Bell inventing the telefone in Canada 1875 --Pre ISOT

In the 1870s, two inventors Elisha Gray and Alexander Graham Bell both independently designed devices that could transmit speech electrically (the telephone). Both men rushed their respective designs to the patent office within hours of each other, Alexander Graham Bell patented his telephone first. Elisha Gray and Alexander Graham Bell entered into a famous legal battle over the invention of the telephone, which Bell won.

The telegraph and telephone are both wire-based electrical systems, and Alexander Graham Bell's success with the telephone came as a direct result of his attempts to improve the telegraph.

When Bell began experimenting with electrical signals, the telegraph had been an established means of communication for some 30 years. Although a highly successful system, the telegraph, with its dot-and-dash Morse code, was basically limited to receiving and sending one message at a time. Bell's extensive knowledge of the nature of sound and his understanding of music enabled him to conjecture the possibility of transmitting multiple messages over the same wire at the same time. Although the idea of a multiple telegraph had been in existence for some time, Bell offered his own musical or harmonic approach as a possible practical solution. His "harmonic telegraph" was based on the principle that several notes could be sent simultaneously along the same wire if the notes or signals differed in pitch.

By October 1874, Bell's research had progressed to the extent that he could inform his future father-in-law, Boston attorney Gardiner Greene Hubbard, about the possibility of a multiple telegraph. Hubbard, who resented the absolute control then exerted by the Western Union Telegraph Company, instantly saw the potential for breaking such a monopoly and gave Bell the financial backing he needed. Bell proceeded with his work on the multiple telegraph, but he did not tell Hubbard that he and Thomas Watson, a young electrician whose services he had enlisted, were also exploring an idea that had occurred to him that summer - that of developing a device that would transmit speech electrically.

Model of Alexander Graham Bell's Telephone

This model of Bell's first telephone (right) is a duplicate of the instrument through which speech sounds were first transmitted electrically (1875).

While Alexander Graham Bell and Thomas Watson worked on the harmonic telegraph at the insistent urging of Hubbard and other backers, Bell nonetheless met in March 1875 with Joseph Henry, the respected director of the Smithsonian Institution, who listened to Bell's ideas for a telephone and offered encouraging words. Spurred on by Henry's positive opinion, Bell and Watson continued their work. By June 1875 the goal of creating a device that would transmit speech electrically was about to be realized. They had proven that different tones would vary the strength of an electric current in a wire. To achieve success they therefore needed only to build a working transmitter with a membrane capable of varying electronic currents and a receiver that would reproduce these variations in audible frequencies.

On June 2, 1875, Alexander Graham Bell while experimenting with his technique called "harmonic telegraph" discovered he could hear sound over a wire. The sound was that of a twanging clock spring.

Bell's greatest success was achieved on March 10, 1876, marked not only the birth of the telephone but the death of the multiple telegraph as well. The communications potential contained in his demonstration of being able to "talk with electricity" far outweighed anything that simply increasing the capability of a dot-and-dash system could imply.

Alexander Graham Bell's notebook entry of 10 March 1876 describes his successful experiment with the telephone. Speaking through the instrument to his assistant, Thomas A. Watson, in the next room, Bell utters these famous first words, "Mr. Watson -- come here -- I want to see you."

?:rolleyes: Can whe start over with International Switchboard Telefones in our Embassies? :p :D :) :rolleyes:
1897. That's when.

[Matt]

I have telephone's too, Bell inventing them in 1876.

So maybe we can talk to each other, but I don't think they're widespread.

[Othniel]

I have telephone's too, Bell inventing them in 1876.

So maybe we can talk to each other, but I don't think they're widespread.
Telephones weren't widely distrubed till the turn of the century.

[Matt]

That's what I thought, and even then it impractical over long distanes, si?

[Othniel]

That's what I thought, and even then it impractical over long distanes, si?
Correct, amd there was no dailing system until...what 1930s or 1950s? I'll get a timeline on the telephone if everybody wants it.

[Matt]

I have military drill this weekend from Friday to Sunday. Expect me back sometime Sunday afternoon. ME7's US well continue with the following actions:

Scouting out the Dutch South West, and generally not believing there claims of wealth

Building relations with Canada, Britain and New Granda.

Realizing Abilon is there.

The American Cardinals are answering the Papal calls to come to Havana.

Shooting Indians.

[Justin Pickard]

Just a notification:

As of April 6 (in game) HMS Agamemnon, posted in the Ionian Islands, will be making its way to Portsmouth, UK. This should take about 10 days (in game; three and a bit days out of game - and as such will be arriving in the UK, OTL Monday Evening).

[Imajin]

Have the Greeks noticed anything about the Turks to the north?

[Glen]

Just a notification:

As of April 6 (in game) HMS Agamemnon, posted in the Ionian Islands, will be making its way to Portsmouth, UK. This should take about 10 days (in game; three and a bit days out of game - and as such will be arriving in the UK, OTL Monday Evening).

Hmmm, how fast will Agamemnon be travelling, and how far? I'm just trying to get a feel for travel in the Steam Age.

[DuQuense]

I'm figuring a Average of Twenty Knots, allowing for Conditions. for my Ships.

[Glen]

I'm figuring a Average of Twenty Knots, allowing for Conditions. for my Ships.

Twenty knots sounds like a sprint speed at best. Wouldn't continuous travel be more in the 10-15 knot range?

[Justin Pickard]

Hmmm, how fast will Agamemnon be travelling, and how far? I'm just trying to get a feel for travel in the Steam Age.

NY-London at this time would take two weeks by a notably fast steam boat, that's about 3500 miles. Ionian Islands-Southampton is about 2200 miles, 9 days on the same boat - but the HMS Agamemnon isn't designed for speed, it's designed to be bloody massive and carry gun turrets...

Of course, it'll be seeing some things on its way back 'home'... :p

[Justin Pickard]

Have the Greeks noticed anything about the Turks to the north?

They have, yes - but rather than intervene, as of yet, they have merely doubled defenses on their borders, whilst an emergency council tries to work out what to do. A medevial history professor from Athens University will be making an appearance over the next couple of days...

[Glen]

From the Cartagena Conference Thread OOC: You should move the date further. It will take a while to get there for many of the officials invited. I'm not going but I guess from La Plata to Cartagena will take more than a week to arrive by train and they have to first get permission from the Peruvians, etc. Need to move your date of the conference at least to the end of the month at the earliest in my opinion.


Yeah, I recently realized I was making a big mistake in how I was calculating travel speeds. Anyhow, I did write that they were 'starting' to arrive. I figure we can let people trickle in. It will be a long conference I imagine. I'll just have people start to arrive at that time (the invites were issued four days ago), but I'll put something about the full conference not starting for another several days. I don't think we'll wait til the end of the month, though. It might be pushing the bounds of credibility, but I think getting something going early will help to keep the posts coming, and you know the old saw, "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story." ;)

Besides, because of the travel issues, further countries might just send their ambassadorial staffs that got ISOTed into New Granada to the Conference as their representatives. That would certainly cut down the travel time for some of the further ones. Not to mention there should be plenty of them running around, since for many of the other timelines the Kingdom of New Granada was composed of several nations, and thus several embassies in our territories<g>.

[DuQuense]

The latest update to the Map in the Asia summit does not show "New Albion"

?Was this a over-site on the map making?, or ?was New Albion dropped and I missed it.?

[perdedor99]

The latest update to the Map in the Asia summit does not show "New Albion"

?Was this a over-site on the map making?, or ?was New Albion dropped and I missed it.?
we are running ME6 and ME7 at the same time. The Asia summit is from ME6. New Albion is a nation of ME7.

[Glen]

The latest update to the Map in the Asia summit does not show "New Albion"

?Was this a over-site on the map making?, or ?was New Albion dropped and I missed it.?

Hey, should we ISOT New Albion into ME6<veg>?

[Ward]

Just a question dose France have part of Eygpt or not ?
on the Maps at one time I did as did A-H Empirer .

[Imajin]

I should note that I won't be on most of Sunday...

[Glen]

Just a question dose France have part of Eygpt or not ?
on the Maps at one time I did as did A-H Empirer .

The map in The Gist of Everything thread shows France and Austria holding parts of Egypt, so I would have to say yes. Although, if your France diverged as late as 1870, I don't quite understand how you hold part of Egypt.

[Glen]

I should note that I won't be on most of Sunday...

Post your unavailability in the Excused Absence thread too, please. You certainly are involved in enough Shared Worlds to warrant multiple games needing to know.

[Bulgaroktonos]

The map in The Gist of Everything thread shows France and Austria holding parts of Egypt, so I would have to say yes. Although, if your France diverged as late as 1870, I don't quite understand how you hold part of Egypt.

Austria, Britain, and France all hold part. I've got the Suez and what looks like a line to the Nile, and Ward has the rest, at least south, west, and north of Cairo.

[DuQuense]

we are running ME6 and ME7 at the same time. The Asia summit is from ME6. New Albion is a nation of ME7.

Oops :o my bad, sorry, disregard

[Othniel]

Hey, should we ISOT New Albion into ME6<veg>?
Why not? ;)

[DuQuense]

Looking at the map of New Grenada I realized

No Jean' Lafitte Day, in Tampa, this is as bad as no Madras Gras , Those poor school kids is St Pete. What will they do for a Hock Day.

[Glen]

Looking at the map of New Grenada I realized

No Jean' Lafitte Day, in Tampa, this is as bad as no Madras Gras , Those poor school kids is St Pete. What will they do for a Hock Day.

Ah, but we do have Carnaval!<g>

[Imajin]

Hey, Othniel, I note that you seem to be heading towards annexation of Arborea... Here's some information that could help you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arborea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_of_Arborea

[Othniel]

Then I must purchase the rights from her and her sisters husband. That's ok, the king's second eldest son could easily take the title of Viscount of Narbonne.

[Aussey]

Ok, I'm back, for a little while each day. So whats been going on? Sorry I was gone sooo long...

[Glen]

Ok, I'm back, for a little while each day. So whats been going on? Sorry I was gone sooo long...

Pretty much still in the "Getting to know you, getting to know all about you..." phase. No wars between players except a skirmish between some Skandians and Oldenburgers. In the Americas, we're going to be holding a Cartagena Conference in a few days. Navarrese Brasillia is welcome to send a representative. Oh, and the two popes are still trying to figure out how to cope with that fact.

[Lauranthalas]

nothing much. everyone is abit confused. oldenburg is fighting against scandistan. scandistan is also attacking karelia. russia has delegations in armenia and karelia. everyone tries to figure out what was happening.
draka is fighting some nomads as i understand it.
and the americas do a very lot of diplomacy but there you have to ask someone who is actually playing one of the nations

[Imajin]

Armenia-Trebizond has formed protectorates out of several of the southern Anatolian Emirates.

[Othniel]

And Mauriafrica has been advancing territorial expansion.

[DuQuense]

?Does any one have Australia or India?

[Imajin]

?Does any one have Australia or India?
I think the UK has Australia. Not sure about India...

[Glen]

?Does any one have Australia or India?

Bulg has both, I'm pretty sure.

Rule, Britannia, Britannia Rule the Waves.....

[DuQuense]

I Hadn't seen a post from either. Have to rewrite my piece.

[Glen]

I Hadn't seen a post from either. Have to rewrite my piece.

Yeah, Check out a map from the Gist of Everything Thread, that shows it.

[Condottiero]

Skandistan has not attacked Karelia (yet), they sent a ship and it is going to be invited to leave (just hoping they are not very rude). I think there are also movements in Middle East, the Armenians are trying to secure Anatolia and the Iranians had invaded Syria and Jordan.

There are no movements in Asia, my Philippinans are sending delegations to Japan and Hong Kong. Anybody there?

[Glen]

Skandistan has not attacked Karelia (yet), they sent a ship and it is going to be invited to leave (just hoping they are not very rude). I think there are also movements in Middle East, the Armenians are trying to secure Anatolia and the Iranians had invaded Syria and Jordan.

There are no movements in Asia, my Philippinans are sending delegations to Japan and Hong Kong. Anybody there?

There is a rather vigorous Empire of Japan if I recall rightly. And I believe the British hold Hong Kong.

Oh, for those keeping score, some would-be conquistadors from New Granada actually managed to pull off a take over of the Aztecs, and are now being reinforced by New Granadan regulars. Missionaries are lining up to flood into the area.

[Bulgaroktonos]

Just as an in general comment, I htink that we should just be a bit slower on our coups/invasions/exploitations of the natives. A coup of the Aztecs is acceptable, but at the same time, I think it would take a bit longer than a week.

Like wise with the Lesser Armenians. Its going to take a week just to get anywhere.......

You don't have to change it now, but just in future.....

[Galbatorix]

!vaya! i am still invading syria. i have contacted the black sheep turks, ?can i use them?

[Othniel]

A coup? Generally takes three months to be fully realised. I'm waiting two weeks before I have the offer to buy the viscount's of Narbonnes rights. I just said that we extended our territory south along the coasts, by decree which means that alls we did is acualty claim it as ours as opposed to do anything with it. The incorperation of natives should happen soon. 5 weeks, to 8 years.

[Matt]

Oth, for my references, what sort of settlements do you have in OTL Oklahoma?

[Othniel]

Oth, for my references, what sort of settlements do you have in OTL Oklahoma?
Three trading posts, a town and a fort.

[Othniel]

With as many Native American settlements as possible.

[Matt]

anything on the site of aklahoma city?

[Othniel]

Should I make a map? Unless it is the interjunction between two major rivers than probaly not. Maybe an Indian settlement. Should I have a squarter rant?

[Matt]

nevermind, looks like there was nothing in Oklahoma in 1886 anyways :D

[Matt]

The only major city in OKC that I can find settlement in by this time is Tulsa, but it's settled with Creeks, who settled there after being forced out of Alabama.

[Othniel]

LOL, it was called Indian Territory of corse nobody lived in the great American dessert..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/37/National-atlas-oklahoma.PNG
There is a trading posts where Buffalo, Lawton, and Amlers are along with a Fort at Stillwater, and towns at Muskogee and Madill.

[Matt]

I knew it was Indian Territory, but I didn't expect almost no white settlements at all.

[Othniel]

It was considered a huge indian reservation for the longest time.

[Othniel]

MBarry:

Senators of Oregon:
1883-1895 Joseph N. Dolph Republican
1885-1897 John H. Mitchell Republican

Rep:

Binger Hermann, -R 1885-1893

[Glen]

Hey, MBarry, who's going to represent the US at the Cartagena Conference? We've got Foreign Ministers and Vice Presidents so far. Hmmm, a Secretary of State sounds like they would be about right....

[Matt]

I suppose I can spare him for a couple of weeks. TR well be arriving a little late, since buisniess has delayed him back home.