By 2076 Canada includes all or most of former "USA"

[zoomar]

OK, I am tired of threads which always somehow assume Canada, Mexico, or some other country somehow really ought to be part of the USA.

So, starting with a PoD no earlier than July 4, 1976, create a North America on July 4, 2076 where the United States of America either (1) no longer exists at all and its constituent states have been included within Canada or (2) a significant portion of it has voluntarily left and been annexed by Canada, Mexico, or any other adjoining country. This "Canada" is not in any way to be considered a sucessor state of the USA or the USA merely renamed after a "merger" of equals, but a clear instance of Canada absording the former USA. This should preferably not occur as a result of war, either between the USA and anyone else or a war of conquest. A special bonus will be awarded to those who retain a "rump" USA which includes only States in the former Confederate States of 1861-1865.

[wkwillis]

A nuclear war with a nuclear winter and lots of America will be Mexican.
A global warming that begins earlier due to faster technological and industrial progress and lots of North America will be Canadian after a civil war that splits America up.

[zoomar]

Cheater!

I said no wars, please. Perhaps we can expand of the results of a severe global warming scenario?

[MrP]

Well, technically, what you actually said was,
This should preferably not occur as a result of war, either between the USA and anyone else or a war of conquest. A special bonus will be awarded to those who retain a "rump" USA which includes only States in the former Confederate States of 1861-1865.

So there's no reason not to have a war ;) :p I'm tempted by some form of economic mess. Distressingly, I'd like to have an IRaq war mess up US economics and so forth - but that seems impossible - without a war. It isn't a major war, but it has really annoyed a lot of people, and Federal Defence Spending has been augmented by George/Congress to the tune of another $80 billion (U.S billion, that is) just recently. A worse war - or even the current one, if you throw a few more spanners gives you plenty of time to kill America even in the next 71 years.

Nice idea, though - very different from the usual :)

[zoomar]

I was also considering the possibility that by the mid 21st century people may have become too pacifistic and humane (some might say spineless) to allow a central US government to wage a civil war to keep states from leaving the Union, especially if the central government had lost a lot of internal respect. Perhaps issues such as the "blue state - red state" cultural conflict,further close federal elections decided by courts or recounts, increasing hispanicization of the southwest USA, some sort of overreach by the federal government (like the Patriot act but a lot worse) etc could help things along.

[Leo Caesius]

It would help if Canada were much more expansionistic. Perhaps the impending Tory victory will help point it in that direction.

The broad outlines of this would require a kind of depression that affects the US but not Canada (unlikely, as the two economies are virtually merged into one) as well as a flaring up of the incipient Kulturkampf between red and blue states. One way of doing this, I think, would be to invoke a scenario suggested by someone (I forget whom) on another board:

Fired up by all of the anti-judicial rhetoric coming out of the GOP, a small rightwing militia, let's call it the Army of God, gathers in Virginia, training and stockpiling assault rifles. It bides its time until the Senate and the Supreme Court are in session, and then it strikes. In slightly less than half an hour manages to slaughter most of the Democratic members of the Senate and all the justices of the Supreme Court. The Army of God is completely slaughtered in the assault, but its objectives have been accomplished, and its members become hallowed martyrs across the nation.

Bush immediately outlaws a number of militant activist groups, among them MoveOn.org, PETA, Greenpeace, the Sierra Club, and the remnants of international ANSWER. Other leftist organizations are placed under around the clock surveillance. The Office of Homeland Security investigates the massacre of senators and justices, and discovers that the Army of God was acting independently, but rightwing pundits darkly suggest that they were acting under orders from Iran, North Korea, and possibly Cuba. Michelle Malkin calls for all Muslims and Leftists to be placed in detention camps.

The Republican governors (all 28 of them) appoint new Senators to replace the Democrats thus murdered, and Bush appoints nine new radical reactionary justices to the Supreme Court. These appointees are railroaded through the Republican dominated Congress, and the three houses begin collaborating to impose an extremely radical and authoritarian agenda upon the nation. In response to the situation, liberals in California, Massachusetts, Nevada, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Vermont, Minnesota, New York, Hawaii, and Ohio storm their (Republican) state houses, and the National Guard is called out to quell the riots in these states, resulting in astounding casualties.

Democratic members of the House and the Senate, as well as a number of federal judges who feel their lives in danger, flee North of the border to form an American government in exile. From Ottawa they denounce the current administration as illegitimate. A stream of refugees from the states on the border under martial law begins to flow into Canada, where they arm themselves and conduct vigilante raids into the occupied states. The Canadian government condemns the liberal militias but otherwise turns a blind eye to their activities. Before you know it, the country has descended into a full-blown civil war.

I'll grant you that it's unlikely, but it's the most plausible scenario that I could imagine.

[wkwillis]

Cheater!

I said no wars, please. Perhaps we can expand of the results of a severe global warming scenario?
Sorry, zoomar. No wars.
Okay, the US calls a constitutional convention. The results indicate a regional split in attitudes. The US constitutional convention sends an invitation to Canada to attend and the former confederate states walk out.
The realators are ecstatic as the former confederate states trade populations with the other states, growing more conservative by the week.
The former conservative states outlaw homosexuality, fornication, adultury, divorce, etc. The other states give a sigh of relief and ignore them henceforth.
Canada refuses to be annexed by the US, so the US offers to be annexed by Canada, and since the former confederate states now have Washington in their hands, to move the government to Winnipeg. Canada annexes the US the next day.
The flag now has 13 stripes and a maple leaf in the corner. Quebec is happy. They are independent but in an economic common market with Canada, sort of like Puerto Rico with an attitude.

[Leo Caesius]

Hey, I like that.

Perhaps we could imagine a Canadian national economic crisis, followed by the secession of Quebec, which all but seals Canada's fate. This crisis coincides with a Democratic resurgence in the US (unlikely, I'll grant you, but still plausible). The Democrats, seeing an opportunity to add a few more million liberal voters, invite the remnants of Canada to accede to the Union in a Constitutional Convention, as per your scenario. The reddest of the Red States, seeing the writing on the wall, state their intent to leave the Union at the Constitutional Convention, and the Democratic administration bids them goodbye and good riddance. The rest follows as per your scenario.

[Othniel]

I need to find the Buck Roger's Confederation Map.

[Forum Lurker]

Perhaps issues such as the "blue state - red state" cultural conflict,further close federal elections decided by courts or recounts, increasing hispanicization of the southwest USA, some sort of overreach by the federal government (like the Patriot act but a lot worse) etc could help things along.

Something like this, you mean?

2005-2016: Republicans maintain control of all branches of government. They increasingly manages to push through legislation which most radical left-wingers consider unconstitutional, on matters ranging from privacy to protest to abortion rights, but the Republican-nominated Supreme Court either refuses to hear the cases or rules consistently in favour of the neoconservative standpoint.

2016: Senator Barak Obama, the first charismatic Democratic candidate since 1994, runs a vigorous campaign, inspiring the largest voter turnout in decades. Amid widespread accusations of voter fraud, especially centered on electronic ballots, he falls one state short of victory. The federal government does not investigate any of the fraud accusations.

2017: Shortly after the inauguration, the presidential motorcade is attacked with a very large Improvised Explosive Device; the president is uninjured, but a number of Secret Service members and presidential staff are killed. The president orders the state where the attack took place, Washington, placed under martial law, claiming that the attack was the result of a conspiracy. Large-scale sweeps by the FBI and DHS, holding thousands as material witnesses, provoke outrage in the region. Large-scale protests are organized, but those few which actually manifest are scattered and the ringleaders arrested. After a number of months, in which no meaningful progress has been made with the investigation, martial law is lifted, but many of those detained are not released. The region smolders.

2018: Despite tremendously invigorated and increasingly vitriolic campaigns, the Democrats lose seats throughout the nation. Mounting evidence indicates that, in fact, the electronic ballots have been compromised, and further that the RNC is aware of this and has taken no action. Mass protests ensue.

2019: Many Democratic candidates (who believe that they were truly elected) attempt to enter the Capitol building in a mass protest, being turned away at the door or temporarily detained by security. An elderly but extremely popular senator suffers a fall in the confusion, sustaining a broken pelvis and substantial cranial injury; his recovery is uncertain. Many radicals refuse to believe that the fall was accidental.

Protests span the nation, and in many cases are suppressed by force; under the Patriot Act, the organizers of any event which violates the extremely strict legislation on the location of public protest and which results in any injury, even that to protestors sustained when non-lethal measures are employed to disperse the crowd, are charged as terrorists. Dissent appears to vanish in the face of this suppression, but is actually relocated to less traceable media.

On what appears to be a completely unrelated note, National Guard and Army Reserve recruitment exceed their quotas in traditionally "blue" states for the first time in decades.

2020: Obama runs again. Voter turnout in some precincts exceeds 90%, but again, the presidency and both houses remain staunchly Republican. Within a few months, incontrovertible evidence of RNC involvement in widespread election fraud is spread by Internet, handbill, and word-of-mouth, though major media sources (newspapers, television, and radio) almost universally denounce it as manufactured. On the basis of this evidence, leading Democrats petition the UN to intervene.

[JLCook]

The ONLY way any other country will EVER gain one foot of American Territory will be if the USA completely dissapeared. You have to hypothesisze something on the order of: What if North America woke up tommorrow morning and there were NO (US)Americans left, just empty buildings and streets!

Under those circumstances, Canada is still screwed---Mexico has a far larger population, one which literally aches to move in with us, legally or not! Canada has few if any ambitions to even try and fil up the land they have, and would be hard put to make a creditable defense of their country if it were not situated directly adjacent to 300 million US Citizens.

[wkwillis]

Hey, I like that.

Perhaps we could imagine a Canadian national economic crisis, followed by the secession of Quebec, which all but seals Canada's fate. This crisis coincides with a Democratic resurgence in the US (unlikely, I'll grant you, but still plausible). The Democrats, seeing an opportunity to add a few more million liberal voters, invite the remnants of Canada to accede to the Union in a Constitutional Convention, as per your scenario. The reddest of the Red States, seeing the writing on the wall, state their intent to leave the Union at the Constitutional Convention, and the Democratic administration bids them goodbye and good riddance. The rest follows as per your scenario.
Ethnic cleansing by realator. I like it. It happens in Quebec, too. Anglophones and Francophones trade houses in friendship and amity. Likewise conservatives and liberals and libertarians and racists. The former confederate states include large numbers of conservative black and hispanic people too. Mostly in Florida and Texas, of course.

[Forum Lurker]

I'll grant you that it's unlikely, but it's the most plausible scenario that I could imagine.

I figured slower is better. If it waits until around 2016 to start coming out, there will be many, many adults who don't remember what the world was like back when bipartisan could be said without irony.

[Forum Lurker]

The ONLY way any other country will EVER gain one foot of American Territory will be if the USA completely dissapeared. You have to hypothesisze something on the order of: What if North America woke up tommorrow morning and there were NO (US)Americans left, just empty buildings and streets!

Under those circumstances, Canada is still screwed---Mexico has a far larger population, one which literally aches to move in with us, legally or not! Canada has few if any ambitions to even try and fil up the land they have, and would be hard put to make a creditable defense of their country if it were not situated directly adjacent to 300 million US Citizens.
Only the USA as a body politic would need to disappear. If the national government ceases to be, there are plenty of northern radicals who are sufficiently in love with their conceptions of Canada that they'd welcome annexation, and the right set of Canadian legislators would be willing to take their place on the global stage with the annexation of New York and other major commercial hubs.

[Midgard]

A different ending to Cold War, perhaps? Say the Soviets figure out early on that enough nuclear weapons are just as good a deterrent for US aggression as armies of troops and vehicles, and as such last long enough into the Cold War due to reduced military production, and more infrastructure spending, that the US simply gives up by, say, 1995 or so (little do they know that the USSR is in a bad shape economically and otherwise - just a tad better than in OTL to survive through increasingly more draconian measures).

Combine such ending of Cold War with a severe economic depression, people losing their jobs and life's savings, inflation skyrocketing, while government is paralyzed by indecision and series of particularly bad "compromise" leaders that are chosen because of them being relatively inoffensive, and not posing major threat to opposing political party. This also presumes that neither Republicans (blamed for the loss in the Cold War, but still retaining major popular support), nor the Democrats (seen as unable to revitalize the economy) are able to gain an edge on the other side. Thus, by late 1990s isolationism prevails in American politics and society again.

In a meanwhile, few of the major American corporations go down in flames, and many more are on the brink of collapse. Middle East explodes pretty much on schedule, and oil prices spiral out of control, creating financial hardships for much of the US population, even those previously considered moderately well-off. Some of the areas are hit particularly hard by economic depression which spares no one, resulting in ethnic and racial tensions rising to the point of occasional street battles between rival groups. Cities are threatened by rival gangs, and the only ones who make a killing (literally as well as not) are the various mafia bosses.

The government is seen as being unable to stop the economic collapse, and bail out faltering businesses, and is able to maintain control of the states only by enforcing curfews and creating virtual ghettos for many of the minorities in some of the cities, enforced by the military. Soon, however, by 2005 or so, even the military is disillusioned and is on the brink of revolt.

By the time the oil crisis more or less subsides, the United States are a divided country in which various subgroups of the population distrust each other more than they distrust foreigners. Various radical groups are on the rise, and a number of radical politicians take stage in parts of the country. In the by now largely Spanish-speaking Southwest, there are increased voices for independence from the country that is seen as not being able to warrant the rights of its citizens, and that is seen as oppressing minority populations. A number of governors and mayors are elected with increasingly more pro-secession views.

Texas separatists, normally a sidenote in less perilous times, are staging a comeback in popular opinion, to where the governor of the state is known to be their sympathizer. New England, still a relatively cosmopolitan area, maintains closer commercial and social ties with the outside world as European, Canadian, Chinese, and Japanese businesses rush into the void left by the struggling American businesses. By 2010 or so much of the businesses operating in the United States are not US-based.

At the same time, even as the economy stabilizes somewhat, the impact is felt only by select groups. New England in particular regains a measure of past prosperity through foreign investment; at the same time, the Southern states are feeling the aftermath of the Second Great Depression much worse than the rest. By 2020, the New Englanders are viewing themselves as being superior to the rest of their countrymen, and are enjoying much higher living standards.

In a meanwhile, the governors of New Mexico, Arizona, and Nevada, sensing that most of the Hispanic population of the states (which in ATL is easily the majority by now) feels repressed by the US government and does not feel represented, announce their intention to leave the Union. Believing that the local military and police forces are going to join them, and feeling secure behind the nuclear weapons stored in the states, the governors announce the creation of the Republic of Aztlan. Within weeks, Colorado follows suit.

The Washington government is paralyzed as military action is seen as resulting in mutual destruction, and political measures do not seem to help. The Southern states, where the racial tension runs especially high, and where much of the Republican support is drawn from, would not go for much concilliatory measures, whereas New England does not want to be drawn into any sort of conflict. There are street battles in California along the ethnic lines, not to the scale of full civil war, but causing much damage.

As the dust begins to settle, Texas announces its intentions to leave the Union. New England states follow suit soon, partially since they are associating less with the rest of the country that has problems recovering from economic depression, and partially because of the influence of foreign business interests. In other words, New England does not want its trade, commerce, or technology to be wasted on the remainder of the country that is poorer and more divided by day. The Pacific Northwest follows suit, attempting to practically repeat New England's economic resurrection without federal government's interference. Sparcely populated Northern Midwestern states join in with the states of Oregon and Washington in this new state.

Through some byzantine diplomacy, the Washington government manages to create a conference with the representatives of the states, originally billed as the "New Constitutional Convention". The convention is a failure, as the delegates are unable to come up with a compromise that would keep the United States, well, united. After month-long debates the delegates accept Canadian offer to mediate.

The result of the convention is a new Constitution, however, only some of the states agree to sign it. New England announces its intention to create the New England Commonwealth, which is recognized by the Canadians, the Europeans, and all other major powers within days; Texan independence is recognized as well. The US government protests, but cannot do much with most of the world against it. Then, the now-predominantly Republican (as main Democrat support base, New England, is now on its own) US government settles down to salvage what they can.

California is practically divided into two, with the southern part going to Aztlan, and northern part remaining nominally part of the USA. The new US constitution does allow secession for all states and territories - the right many remaining territories will eventually use. New England is technically under Canadian (and British) protection, and Mexico declares that it guarantees the independence of Aztlan (which over the years will be absorbed into Mexico).

The remaining "USA" is thus the Southern states less Texas, and northern half of California, plus the Great Lakes states. Over the years, as Canadian and European investments pour into New England, New England asks to be admitted into Canada, which is granted. The Pacific Northwest and other states follow suit, and after that, Aztlan (or Mexico) takes over rest of California.

Plausible?

[Ebar]

In the next Presidential election the Republicans retain the Presidency. Bush Yr successor is set to continue along the same broad path. In 2009 there is a mini stock market crash and it is belatedly realised that the USA has economically overstretched herself. The White House attempts to reign in a bloated military budget. Unfortunately this had the opposite affect to the one intended and pushes the US into recession. Also the massive withdrawal and reduction of the US armed forces slowly starts to reduce America’s involvement and influence on world events. Over the next thirty years the USA steadily looses ground in the economic rankings. Loosing first place to China then Europe and finally slipping just below India. Successive Republican and Democrat administrations are unable to arrest this slide. In 2016 the Canadian government starts taking active steps to ‘decouple’ the Canadian economy from that of the USA.

On the home front the country is going to continue to polarise between the liberal and conservative elements for the next twenty years. Around 2023 the polarisation between libs and conservs reaches 'critical mass'. Liberals and Conservatives living in the 'wrong' states start to move in slowly increasing numbers. By 2034 the different segments of the country have significantly different value systems. The prospect of the country splitting starts to be raised, but at this stage over 90% percent of Americans are strongly against this.

In 2043 there is a major worldwide recession that lasts seven years. The New England region weathers this downturn best but becomes increasingly resentful of having to ‘carry’ the weaker states. In 2045 an independent candidate runs for senator on a separatist platform. Although he looses he does gain 30% of the vote.

In 2050 most of the world starts to emerge from the recession. Unfortunately American suffers a ‘death cat bounce’ and rapidly slides back into a period of negative growth.

In 2053 separatist candidates are elected as senators for Maine, New Hampshire and New York. In 2053 New York is the first state to undertake a referendum to cede from the union. A 73% voter turn out delivers a 69% yes vote.

The President at this time is Mrs Chelsea Gayle, daughter of former President Clinton. Historical opinion is divided on whether President Gayle could have preserved the union or avoided a second American Civil War. In September 2054 the state of New York formally leaves the union

President Gayle is replaced in 2056 by the more hard-line Gary Highland. President Highland forces through legislation that any referendum must have at least a 70% turn out and 80% yes vote to be valid. Despite this in his first year in office three more states vote to cede. Recently opened files reveal that President Highland considered using force to keep the New England states in the union but was advised against this by the military. In 2059 the USA receives a final mortal blow. California starts proceedings to cede. In 2063 President Highland formally signs of dissolution. The southern and mid-western state form the American confederation, California and its neighbours become the nation of California while the New England states form a loose union.

In 2066-68 the New England states separately start negotiations to merge with Canada. The last of these unions it complete by 2076.

[Tony Williams]

Reminds of that spoof map floating around at the time of the US Presidential election last year. It showed the northern and NE+NW coasts of the USA merging with Canada to form a 'United States of Canada', with the rest relabelled 'Jesusland'. Given the strong regionalisation of the voting and the depth of animosity expressed by the two sides in that election such an eventual outcome might not be too far-fetched.

Does make me wonder about how 'Jesusland' and the Mexican immigrants get on, though...

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[zoomar]

Does make me wonder about how 'Jesusland' and the Mexican immigrants get on, though...

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)


Easy. East Jesusland (Protestant) and West Jesusland (Catholic). We'll have to move a few people around, but hey.

[simonbp]

Well, it's all quite simple, really; we just activate the device at the top of the CN Tower and gain control of the US military... :D

There'll be a Tim Horton's on Pennsylvania Avenue by next Thursday...

Simon ;)

[Thande]

Yay, Tim Horton's. They should put them all over the world.

[reformer]

Well, currently in the US, there is a huge party devide, and there is mutualy hatred among the parties, which is of course damaging the nation. Make this much much larger, and make Democrats who simply can't stand Republicans. I know alot of people who seriously considered moving to Canada because of Bush, what if entire states left because of a Republican presidential domination. That would leave the south, the Midwest, and most of the west. But alot of important areas would be gone. Sorry, but I don't see the midwest suceding.

[Leo Caesius]

I had a Red State - Blue State moment tonight in fact (these sorts of things actually happen quite frequently in a place like New York). I took the V out to Houston to see some friends of mine play at a place called Rothko's in the East Village. It's a bit chilly tonight - almost Autumn weather, in fact - and so I was wearing my father's field jacket. As I got off the train, an older man walked up to me, with a glint in his eye that said that he was up to no good.

"Are you in the military?" he sneered.

"No, sir," I replied. "Hah, I didn't think so," he snarled, and then stormed off.

Fucking asshole. It's my father's jacket, it has his name (MY name) on it, I have every right to wear it. It's not like I picked it up at the Salvation Army and only wear it when I'm out burning flags at Not In My Name or ANSWER rallies. At any rate, what business is it of his? If he hadn't run off like the sanctimonious coward he was, I would have given him a piece of my mind.

[MerryPrankster]

That guy is a twit. And was there even a point to his actions?

[Forum Lurker]

Yes, there was: it vindicated his feelings of contempt and antipathy to liberals and youngsters.

[JimmyJimJam]

Can we blue states join Canada now please?

[zoomar]

Fucking asshole. It's my father's jacket, it has his name (MY name) on it, I have every right to wear it. It's not like I picked it up at the Salvation Army and only wear it when I'm out burning flags at Not In My Name or ANSWER rallies. At any rate, what business is it of his? If he hadn't run off like the sanctimonious coward he was, I would have given him a piece of my mind.


Presuming the fucking asshole actually did serve in Vietnam (or Korea or WW2 or whatever), combat veterans can get quite possessive of what they sometimes see as "their" uniforms, symbols, and so forth, especially when worn by people who did not serve. I suspect if you had answered, "No, sir, it's my father's", his reaction might have been different. But maybe not. You are right, it really isn't his business, and he probably is just an asshole.

[Leo Caesius]

Presuming the fucking asshole actually did serve in Vietnam (or Korea or WW2 or whatever), combat veterans can get quite possessive of what they sometimes see as "their" uniforms, symbols, and so forth, especially when worn by people who did not serve.He looked a bit young to me, I think, to have been a Vietnam Vet; if I had to guess, I would have said that he was in his mid- to late- thirties, and at most not a day over 40.

I suspect that he had served at some point in the military, sometime after Vietnam but before the Gulf, and was probably possessive of the field jacket for that reason, but still. :mad:

The great irony is, of course, that I've been wearing this jacket for most of my life (for the past 12-13 years, at the very least) and no one ever said anything - until I came to New York City. :rolleyes:

[zoomar]

Just goes to show you there are jerks everywhere.

[Leo Caesius]

Just goes to show you there are jerks everywhere.
I believe there may be more of them - in terms of sheer numbers and proportion of the population - in New York City. :eek:

[MerryPrankster]

I believe there may be more of them - in terms of sheer numbers and proportion of the population - in New York City. :eek:

Darn Yankees! :)

[Dave Howery]

Can we blue states join Canada now please?
no. Try it and we here in Jesusland will re-annex you by overwhelming military force. And take Canada too....

Hmm.. on second thought, go ahead, do it...

[Imajin]

no. Try it and we here in Jesusland will re-annex you by overwhelming military force. And take Canada too....

Hmm.. on second thought, go ahead, do it...
But without the influence of the Blue States, Jesusland would obviously turn into a Protestant theocracy, which immediately descends into war among the Protestant denominations for control, and the military splits up, with the part that doesn't care joining the Royal Canadian Army.. :eek:

[Dave Howery]

no. We here in Jesusland will unite in patriotic/religious fervor and start our final holy war to re-annex the traitorous blue states and take out Canada for good measure too. Long Live Jesusland!!

[Thande]

But what will you do with all the liberals and Democrat voters in the blue states and Canada you've just conquered?

On second thoughts, don't answer that... :rolleyes: :eek:

[NapoleonXIV]

2005 Bush passes his private accounts for Social Security Bill and Global warming begins to pick up the pace. No further changes to Social Security are called for.

2006 Bush passes other Bills making it illegal and impossible to go to Canada for cheaper drugs and then return. A trickle of old people and the chronically ill emigrating to survive begins to increase

2008-2012 The several trillion dollar cost of private accounts begins to come due. With no additional funding available, two things happen, SS taxes are increased and benefits are cut drastically. Drug benefits for Medicare and the disabled are ended entirely. The trickle of emigrants is now becoming a flood. Sometimes joined by their families, this group begins to become a factor in Canadian politics

2012-2016 Droughts begin to devastate crops in the American Midwest. At the same time, warmer weather and increased rain seems to be moving north. The plains of Manitoba and Saskatchewan enjoy bumper crops and the tillable area moves almost a hundred miles north every year. American farmers begin to join the emigrants to Canada. The American Party is now one of the White North's major influences.

2018. The effect of private accounts on the stock market, accumulating over several years, backfires. The increased predictability of the huge private accounts investments makes the market unprofitable for speculators. The market collapses as money follows profits which follow risk. The major beneficiary are the commodities markets, now dominated by Canada's agricultural richness.

2020 In an election year, the Social Security private accounts go Bankrupt and the US, now in the midst of an eight year drought, faces economic collapse and the possibility that very soon millions of baby boomers with no more benefits will begin to starve in the streets. The Republicans run one of the Bush daughters, who promises to close the borders and begin rounding up muslims, liberals and the other 'enemies of the country' who the Republicans blame for all the problems. The Democrats run a Canadian liberal, who proposes union of the US and Canada, which has been sending food to help the starving farmers in the Midwest for several years. He wins.

2020-2032. The US and Canada become one country, under agreements reached in 2024. The process is slow and gradual, so as to permit the two governments to merge amicably and with the minimum of problems. Canada acquires America's diminished but still major post-modern industrial capacity. The US regains the huge food productivity which has moved north into Canada and acquires a more survivable system of social welfare.

Not a merger of equals, since the merger was a Canadian idea and Canada is the clear economic base, since present US prosperity is still based on our agriculture and future would be based on theirs. No war. Sorry, no rump state.

[LDoc]

I don't mean to put anyone down, but shouldn't scenerios like this be Future History? Sure you set the POD in the 70's but that hardly counts as Alternate History, when your desired outcome is in 2076.

[Othniel]

I don't mean to put anyone down, but shouldn't scenerios like this be Future History? Sure you set the POD in the 70's but that hardly counts as Alternate History, when your desired outcome is in 2076.
Not really. It starts in the past, even if the goal is in the future. A future history requires that the direction be changed in the future.

[Tony Williams]

Not really. It starts in the past, even if the goal is in the future. A future history requires that the direction be changed in the future.

But how would you know what the real future is, before you decided how to change it? :)

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

[Raymann]

Funny, I made a political quip every once in a while and I get banned for a week, half the people on this thread are doing a lot worse and nothings happening.

[Leo Caesius]

Funny, I made a political quip every once in a while and I get banned for a week, half the people on this thread are doing a lot worse and nothings happening.You were kicked? When did that happen?

If you see something that offends you here, you should click on the tiny exclamation point in the upper right-hand corner of the post. I'm sure it will be dealt with in a fair and equitable manner.

[Othniel]

But how would you know what the real future is, before you decided how to change it? :)

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)
My favorite way. Give me the date it supposedly started, and the date we are on and work backward toward the POD. Remebering of corse that history had to be the same unto that point.

[Raymann]

Last week, I don't particually care about what other people say so I'm not going to be bitching about it but that still shows you something.

[Dave Howery]

But what will you do with all the liberals and Democrat voters in the blue states and Canada you've just conquered?

On second thoughts, don't answer that... :rolleyes: :eek:
2 words: adamantium chainsaws...