What would we lack if there were no Axis Powers?

[Keenir]

The most famous example of what the Axis brought us are how the V2 rockets paved the way to spaceflight. (and without spaceflight, there's a whole host of conveniences we'd lack)

And, under Operation Paperclip, many German and Japanese scientists were brought to the US for their knowledge of biological and chemical agents...but how much of what they contributed was used in further developments/inventions post-War?


Basically, how much of what we have now, had its origins in the Axis Powers' labs?

[lothaw]

Those things might be delayed, but not stopped.

[mowque]

Well, seeing if we didn't kill all those people, might have been some bright guys who had thier heads blown off in all those battles? We might be a good bit ahead.

[ComradeTovarich]

We'd definitely have an earlier and a longer Cold War. One that possibly wouldn't end...

[Draco]

Overall I think most of the technical developments resulting from the war would still happen some simply would come about later that OTL as the ground work for a lot of the tech existed before the war. Honestly I think the biggest changes are going to be of a political and social nature rather than technological which is likely to be overall comparable to OTL.

[Blue Max]

I think this question is phrased poorly. What would we have with a surviving Weimar Republic in Europe? Germany would remain a world leader in economics, science, culture, sports, and so much. Europe would remain the focus of the world, instead of becoming a armed camp between two major factions.

I think we'd lack a few weapons; most notably, the atomic bomb would probably be heavily delayed, while civilian technology would be advanced by a decade or more--and culture would be a bit more conservative. It would be an interesting world, and one where the lack of automated killing drones is far more greatly compensated by high speed railroads, greater wealth and investment in general, and perhaps, a giant African Vietnam as colonial powers attempt to keep what they have.

[JMIII]

the atomic bomb would probably be heavily delayed, while civilian technology would be advanced by a decade or more--and culture would be a bit more conservative.

Hmmmmm....
Will this be the end result of a 'no axis' TL?
http://dogsounds.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/fallout-3.jpg

[The Red]

A delayed US and Soviet Space program.

The Mig 15.

Delayed Nuclear weapons.

The B-36.

Tens of millions of corpses.

[machine3589]

Hmmmmm....
Will this be the end result of a 'no axis' TL?
http://dogsounds.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/fallout-3.jpg

I like it.:D

And I believe that without the Nazi boogyman, the world would be much more conservative.

[Keenir]

A delayed US and Soviet Space program.

The Mig 15.

Delayed Nuclear weapons.

The B-36.

Tens of millions of corpses.

I understand the 1st, 3rd, and 5th ones - but the other two, I don't follow how they'd result from the question.
(apologies)

I think this question is phrased poorly. What would we have with a surviving Weimar Republic in Europe? Germany would remain a world leader in economics, science, culture, sports, and so much. Europe would remain the focus of the world, instead of becoming a armed camp between two major factions.

thank you for reminding me what I forgot to put in the OP - that this quesiton stems from an argument I'm having (not with anyone at AH.COM), and she says civilization would be more advanced if the antagonists of WW2 never existed.

so, rather than make half-arsed stabs, I figured I'd ask the experts - you folks, my friends.


I think we'd lack a few weapons; most notably, the atomic bomb would probably be heavily delayed,

makes sense.

while civilian technology would be advanced by a decade or more-

why is that?

-and culture would be a bit more conservative. It would be an interesting world, and one where the lack of automated killing drones is far more greatly compensated by high speed railroads, greater wealth and investment in general,

wasn't the fight against the Axis what pulled most countries out of the Depression?

and perhaps, a giant African Vietnam as colonial powers attempt to keep what they have.

okay.

[The Red]

I understand the 1st, 3rd, and 5th ones - but the other two, I don't follow how they'd result from the question.
(apologies)

Well the Mig 15 was more or less a copy of the H0183, a Nazi experimental jet and the B-36 was designed with the Nazis in mind in case Britian was overrun and the US had to fight a cross channel war.

[carlton_bach]

thank you for reminding me what I forgot to put in the OP - that this quesiton stems from an argument I'm having (not with anyone at AH.COM), and she says civilization would be more advanced if the antagonists of WW2 never existed.


Civilisation may be more advanced - the World Wars were a traumatising experience for entire generatuions throughout almost the entire developed world and beyond. Without them, we might see not just a number of geniuses in science, technology and the arts that OTL ended up burned to death, gassed, blow to smithereens, starved, or physically or psychologically wrecked for life. THe entire social lookout of the world may be more positive, more open-minded and just plain happier. Look at what happened culturally and socially in Europe and the US after the first generation grew up without being collective put through the meat grinder. Of course, we don't know that for sure - it's possible every last victim of the twentieth century's horror may have been a dull philistine, but I very much doubt it.

Technologically, we may have less advancement, though. Especially WWII and the Cold War put great pressure on all parties to systematise and heavily invest in applied sciences and (to a lesser, but significant extent) arts. Without that, development may be slower and more haphazard, and a lot of things we take for granted everywhere would be far less ubiquitous.

[Basileus Giorgios]

We might have smaller, more sensible African countries, divided more pragmatically along ethnic rather than old colonial lines. I suspect ITTL, African decolonisation will probably start to begin around 1970, with the introduction of elected assemblies of citizens and the cultivation of a middle class, and end around 1995, with fully independent nation states.

Staying on colonial lines, we'd have surviving rump colonial empires, as France and Britain would be eager to continue to hold onto strategic regions. I think Cyprus, Singapore, Hong Kong, the Suez region, and maybe British Guyana could possibly become fully integrated into Britain as a whole, or at least given equal status as semi-autonomous overseas territories of the realm.

This may be looking at it all through rose tinted glasses though.

[Prem_Rack]

Democracy wouldn't be as universal. Authoritarian regimes would be more numerous and more legitimate

[Hashasheen]

We'd lack Nazi porn.

/thread.

[yourworstnightmare]

We'd lack some historical mass murders to nag about.

[Faeelin]

Technologically, we may have less advancement, though. Especially WWII and the Cold War put great pressure on all parties to systematise and heavily invest in applied sciences and (to a lesser, but significant extent) arts. Without that, development may be slower and more haphazard, and a lot of things we take for granted everywhere would be far less ubiquitous.

I don't know. This is certainly possible, but one wondes what Americans do wih greater consumption; what 30 million people manage to create; what a Democratic Poland brings to the table; etc.

[Markus]

A delayed US and Soviet Space program.

The Mig 15.

Delayed Nuclear weapons.

The B-36.

Tens of millions of corpses.


Jets will be around but I´m sceptical about the B-36 and most sceptical about nukes. Who on earth would spend billions to develop a weapon that might not even work in the end and why? With no WW2, the USSR would be literally in a cold war with the rest of the world. The capitalist camp would uttlerly overmatch the lone USSR.

[Faeelin]

Jets will be around but I´m sceptical about the B-36 and most sceptical about nukes. Who on earth would spend billions to develop a weapon that might not even work in the end and why? With no WW2, the USSR would be literally in a cold war with the rest of the world. The capitalist camp would uttlerly overmatch the lone USSR.

So in other words, the USSR is in need of a wunderwaffen?

Heeh.

In all seriousness, people would still develop nuclear theory, if only FOR SCIENCE and atomic power.

[B_Munro]

With no WW2, the USSR would be literally in a cold war with the rest of the world.

But would it be? The western nations before WWII didn't _like_ the USSR, but they weren't fervently building up their armed forces to confront them, either. They saw it as more as an ideological than a military threat (and would more so if Stalin slaughtered his office corps on schedule), and even the ideological threat receded when neither the Depression nor the buildup to a new war led to any revolts of the Proletariat, save (kinda) in always-troubled Spain. Some non-communist countries (Germany before Hitler, Chiang's China) got along fine with the USSR. If the USSR doesn't do something highly impressive and daring, like smashing Japan in a major war and installing Soviet puppets in north China and Korea, it's likely to remain at a low level of hostility until nukes and ICBMs come along (OMG! THEY'LL FRY US ALL IN OUR BEDS), if they even do so before the USSR collapses of its own crapulence or evolves into something less hostile.

Bruce

[machine3589]

Jets will be around but I´m sceptical about the B-36 and most sceptical about nukes. Who on earth would spend billions to develop a weapon that might not even work in the end and why? With no WW2, the USSR would be literally in a cold war with the rest of the world. The capitalist camp would uttlerly overmatch the lone USSR.

Since there is no such thing as M.A.D. in the 1940.`s, there is a chance Stalin will do the exact same thing he did in Red Alert.

[pwarner328]

I think this question is phrased poorly. What would we have with a surviving Weimar Republic in Europe? Germany would remain a world leader in economics, science, culture, sports, and so much. Europe would remain the focus of the world, instead of becoming a armed camp between two major factions.

I think we'd lack a few weapons; most notably, the atomic bomb would probably be heavily delayed, while civilian technology would be advanced by a decade or more--and culture would be a bit more conservative. It would be an interesting world, and one where the lack of automated killing drones is far more greatly compensated by high speed railroads, greater wealth and investment in general, and perhaps, a giant African Vietnam as colonial powers attempt to keep what they have.
Without the trauma of almost being overrun by Hitler, I dont think the russians are quite as paranoid so a hot war is less likely