U S Succession

[Grey Wolf]

If the Speaker is 3rd in line after Bush and Cheney who is the Speaker ? I tried to look it up and came up with someone called Dennis Halstert... Surely that can't be right, I never heard of him. Is the guy 3rd in line speaker of the House of Reps ? Why ?

Grey Wolf

[Archangel Michael]

It is the Speaker of the House. The Ammendement was passed under Truman that made this succession, and from the show the 'West Wing', the only reason for this is beacuse Truman apparenetley drank with the Speaker at the time it was passed.

[DominusNovus]

Yeah, its Mr. Hastert. Relative to Gingrich, he's kept a low profile.

[Kuralyov]

It is the Speaker of the House. The Ammendement was passed under Truman that made this succession, and from the show the 'West Wing', the only reason for this is beacuse Truman apparenetley drank with the Speaker at the time it was passed.

I heard that the reason for it is that the Speaker of the House, after President and VP, is the only other elected leader in the Federal government (all the secretaries being appointed).

[zoomar]

I heard that the reason for it is that the Speaker of the House, after President and VP, is the only other elected leader in the Federal government (all the secretaries being appointed).

Not exactly, there's also the Senate Majority Leader.

I remember there was a big controversy when Reagan was shot and Secretary of State Alexander Haig said the "he was in charge" - somehow he forgot about the VP.

[Grey Wolf]

Not exactly, there's also the Senate Majority Leader.

I remember there was a big controversy when Reagan was shot and Secretary of State Alexander Haig said the "he was in charge" - somehow he forgot about the VP.

Amusingly, I believe 'Airforce One' sheds more light on this issue. There are two different possibilities at work - one is the president being unable to perform his duties, the other has something to do with national emergencies.... ah, no, actually I think that may have been the Secretary of Defence which takes over in that case ? Boy, sure is confusing !

Grey Wolf

[Derek Jackson]

The next in line after the Speaker is the President Pro Tem. Not the same as the Majority leader. I think by custom and practice is VERY senior and therefore very old.

Also (contrary to what is potrayed in the West Wing) the procedures under the 25th amendment for incapacity only apply to a Vice President.

America would be in real trouble if there was a serious potential incapacity dispute and no VP.

(Though of course imho America is in potentially serious difficulty after the decision of 51% of her citizens)

[Evil Opus]

After the pro tem come all those secretaries. And after that........ I guess a much longer list resides somewhere. Let's hope we never need it. :(

[Wendell]

The Secretaries of the departments succeed by the order in which their department was founded. So far, the Secretary of Homeland Security is not in the succession because some in Congress want him between Attorney-General and Secretary of Interior, instead of at the end of the list.

Furthermore, any cabinet secretary (or Speaker, Pro Tem) ineligible for the Presidency cannot assume the presidency, thus nullifying their place in the succession line. Here's the current list, with officers in plain text, and position in boldface. Asterisks mark those who cannot be President:
Dick Cheney, Vice President
J. Dennis Hastert, Speaker of the House of Representatives
Ted Stevens, President pro tempore of the Senate
Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of State
John W. Snow, Secretary of the Treasury
Donald H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Alberto Gonzales, Attorney General
Gale Norton, Secretary of the Interior
Mike Johanns, Secretary of Agriculture
Carlos Gutierrez, Secretary of Commerce*
Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor*
Michael Leavitt, Secretary of Health and Human Services
Alphonso Jackson, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
Norman Y. Mineta, Secretary of Transportation
Samuel W. Bodman, Secretary of Energy
Margaret Spellings, Secretary of Education
Jim Nicholson, Secretary of Veterans Affairs

[Wendell]

After the pro tem come all those secretaries. And after that........ I guess a much longer list resides somewhere. Let's hope we never need it. :(
Officially, there is no longer list:eek:

[HueyLong]

You know, a succession problem would be an interesting FH or AH idea.....

[fortyseven]

One Secretary always sits out of the State of the Union or similar gatherings in case of an attack. But if he/she died too... *shrugs*

[Mayhem]

Why is there no rule against thread necromancy by people who presume the discussion has continued? :confused:

[Michael]

Why is there no rule against thread necromancy by people who presume the discussion has continued? :confused:

Well obviously since this discussion occured a mere 2 years ago, and the person who asked the question doesn't even come here anymore, that guy must still want to know.

I say we kick anyone who bumps a thread that's over 1 year old for a week.

[fortyseven]

I say we bump Michael for a week

[Verence]

One Secretary always sits out of the State of the Union or similar gatherings in case of an attack. But if he/she died too... *shrugs* I remember there was an episode of the The West Wing in which Josh Lyman had to pick "a guy". I think he ended up choosing the sec of state for Agriculture

[Max Sinister]

You know, a succession problem would be an interesting FH or AH idea.....

The FH comic "Give me liberty" (see Books/Games/Websites forum) played with that.
Even more problematic in this case: The government ITTL has been in the firm grip of the right-wing republicans (Reagan -88, Quayle -96, Erwin Rexall -2009), and the only survivor (sec for agriculture) is a liberal Democrat who only replaced his predecessor three days ago.

[Nekromans]

It's a LOT easier with Monarchies. The next available directly-descended boy, or a directly-descended girl if no directly-descended boys can be found. Simple as.


Of course, after that it goes to the younger sibling, or to the younger cousins if they're the youngest sibling, but after that it gets messy.

[Ghost 88]

The FH comic "Give me liberty" (see Books/Games/Websites forum) played with that.
Even more problematic in this case: The government ITTL has been in the firm grip of the right-wing republicans (Reagan -88, Quayle -96, Erwin Rexall -2009), and the only survivor (sec for agriculture) is a liberal Democrat who only replaced his predecessor three days ago.
What about a Sec. of Education who was going to be fired the next day if war hadn't broken out.

[Wendell]

I remember there was an episode of the The West Wing in which Josh Lyman had to pick "a guy". I think he ended up choosing the sec of state for Agriculture
The post is called "Secretary of Agriculture."

[alphaboi867]

Officially, there is no longer list:eek:

In theory the House can elect a new speaker who would then assume the Presidency. The House only needs half of the members who are living, seated, and sworn. Thus even if only one member survives s/he could call a session of the House (since 100% of it's membership are present) and elect him/herself Speaker. If the entire House is wiped out the Senate can always elect a new President pro term; unlike Representatives (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyeInAS5EEB0Aix1XNyoA/SIG=15ldidiu5/EXP=1143952039/**http%3a//search.yahoo.com/search%3fp=Representatives%26sp=1%26fr2=sp-top%26ei=UTF-8%26fr=slv1-%26SpellState=n-2293085426_q-%252FlHz3udHhxbg7SI7yHAQrgABAA%2540%2540), Senators can be appointed by a state governor (except in New Mexico).

[Wendell]

In theory the House can elect a new speaker who would then assume the Presidency. The House only needs half of the members who are living, seated, and sworn. Thus even if only one member survives s/he could call a session of the House (since 100% of it's membership are present) and elect him/herself Speaker. If the entire House is wiped out the Senate can always elect a new President pro term; unlike Representatives (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyeInAS5EEB0Aix1XNyoA/SIG=15ldidiu5/EXP=1143952039/**http%3a//search.yahoo.com/search%3fp=Representatives%26sp=1%26fr2=sp-top%26ei=UTF-8%26fr=slv1-%26SpellState=n-2293085426_q-%252FlHz3udHhxbg7SI7yHAQrgABAA%2540%2540), Senators can be appointed by a state governor (except in New Mexico).
Representatives can be appointed, but special elections must be held within 7 weeks from the time of appointment. Although, if one wants to be technical, the Constitution might be incinerated in such an attack, legitimizing a military takeover.

[fortyseven]

interesting post Wendell

[BrianP]

Although, if one wants to be technical, the Constitution might be incinerated in such an attack, legitimizing a military takeover.

How do you figure? Just because the Constitution goes up in smoke doesn't mean it is no longer the law of the land. Besides, just about every history classroom in America has a copy that can be whipped out. ;)

[Wendell]

How do you figure? Just because the Constitution goes up in smoke doesn't mean it is no longer the law of the land. Besides, just about every history classroom in America has a copy that can be whipped out. ;)
But, the contract itself bearing the signatures of the 12 parties present no longer exists, and is thus, invalid:p Not to mention that the Statehood Acts themselves for the additional states likely went up themselves.

Now, using the U.S. order of Precedence in place of a succession list might be interesting.

[Evil Opus]

After the speaker comes the Pro Tem of the Senate-I don't know who the current one is. After the Pro Tem comes the Secretary of State(Condi Rice) then the Secretary of Defense(Donald Rumsfled) then the rest of the Cabinet. After the Cabinet I assume the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs gets the job, but at that point if that many people have died we have bigger problems then who's going to be the next president.

[Wendell]

After the speaker comes the Pro Tem of the Senate-I don't know who the current one is. After the Pro Tem comes the Secretary of State(Condi Rice) then the Secretary of Defense(Donald Rumsfled) then the rest of the Cabinet. After the Cabinet I assume the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs gets the job, but at that point if that many people have died we have bigger problems then who's going to be the next president.
Already addressed;)

Ted Stevens is the current President Pro Tem.

By custom, the oldest member of the majority party in the Senate is elected by his colleagues to this post.

[Hermanubis]

I say we kick anyone who bumps a thread that's over 1 year old for a week.
Oh, when I saw this I knew I had to bump it...



(One of the reasons I love this forum so much is because there arnt that many complaints over thread necromancy. I hate other message boards where fascist moderators penalize members for insignificant things like bumping old threads...)

[fortyseven]

Oh, when I saw this I knew I had to bump it...



Hooray for Hermy :)

[Jasen777]

It is the Speaker of the House. The Ammendement was passed under Truman that made this succession, and from the show the 'West Wing', the only reason for this is beacuse Truman apparenetley drank with the Speaker at the time it was passed.

I like to imagine it is because the House is more representative of the nation than the Senate.