Viva Balbo! – An Alternate Duce, an Alternate Italy [Archive] - Page 3

Nivek

March 11th, 2010, 03:08 AM

Further thoughts to my posts on film last Friday:

On thinking about it more, it'd be interesting to see how Federico Fellini gets along in latter-day (1950's/1960's) Balboist Italy. (I specify those decades, since Balbo will be 60 in 1956 - 70 in 1966 - and presumably still vigorous and in control throughout the 1950's (if you don't have him retire soon after WWII as Lounge suggested last week). Anyway, how much freedom Fellini has to make his films will be an interesting readout on how far Balbo goes to liberalize Italian society postwar. La Dolce Vita, or its TTL analogue, will be especially interesting; I see the Fascist old guard kicking up a huge fuss, with personal intervention by the Duce possibly necessary to get the project going. (BTW, Anita Ekberg was born in 1931, so if she goes into acting TTL, she'll be available as a muse for Fellini.)

Franco Zeffirelli (b. 1923) is 15 in 1938. With the big POD being in 1938, his early life will have gone pretty much as OTL, particularly his rearing by the British expat community in Florence. The TTL semi-autobiographical film will be called, naturally, Tea with Balbo. :) His wartime career will be interesting; as opposed to OTL, he'll probably join the Italian Army TTL and fight on the Lombardy front (dunno how far the Wehrmact will penetrate into Italy; I had this idea for the TTL version of Enemy at the Gates being about the vicious battle for Florence...) If the British send an expeditionary force, he can become an interpreter for them TTL, too.

Never have followed Sergio Leone that closely, but I don't think his career would diverge too much from OTL, especially if Balbo likes Westerns!

Goddesses of OTL postwar Italian cinema who could make it big TTL too:

Silvana Pampanini (b. 1925)
Sophia Loren (b. 1934)
Gina Lollobrigida (b. 1927)
Lucia Bose (b. 1931)
Gianna Maria Canale (b. 1927)
Isa Barzizza (b. 1929)

I'm not sure if Claudia Cardinale (b. 1938) makes it under the butterfly cutoff date. She was born in Tunis (at that time under French colonial rule), which is presumably outside the butterfly range at that early point, so I rather hope she does. :) Prewar French actresses who could make their way as refugees to Italy are Arletty, Danielle Darrieux and Edwige Feuillere.

Ja mein friend, the italian way of live will be drastically change by obvious reasons(in general will be some similar, but more social conservative and very rabidous anticommunist, and for that expect very american like flims when valerous youth italians(very balbonian like) will save italy/free world/the girl when fight against the red rus/mongol(Eurofed wet dream, because i think he his north italian)

Again the Short term political consecuences is obvios.... Italy will be in the short term in their last legs thanks to Nazi Pressure(obviolues Faraccani, the coward lupino and his Quisling-like north itally is going to be defeated, but only the north of italy is the useful area, and for that, the battles will be hard.... but winable, expect a western front Stalingrad-like in North Italy... maybe Venecia) but again, the Iron wall will be a lot more in the East(maybe a Comunist Prussia Like puppet state or some similar to make East germany or a Warsaw Wall) and Italy will recive a lot of Marshall Plan(and during the war too), and that can help to break the eternal, North-South Political and Economical Division....

well waiting for the Storm, having in hand a Umbrella for that one

Att
Nivek von Beldo

P.S. Maybe Sophia Lorren will be a Balbo lover?

HJ Tulp

March 11th, 2010, 07:58 AM

SenatorChickpea

March 11th, 2010, 08:14 AM

I love the thought that years afterwards, some musically minded satirists will try to write that opera.

joea64

March 11th, 2010, 11:33 AM

Geekhis Khan

March 11th, 2010, 12:02 PM

That's an exaggeration. At the time (late 30s) Romania was a major player in the oil business. We were Germany's strategic allies because of our reserves in and around Ploiesti. The US bombed Ploiesti to deny Hitler the oil. The US was not the only player in the oil field business... Now, could the Italians have come to some sort of agreement with Romania (or others..like the Dutch, who had the East Indies, where I believe they had oil, which is why Japan took them over), and done some within some reasonable time frame? I don't know.

Sorry if this is going way back in the discussion.

From what I know both the East Indie Oilfields and Ploetsi were much more easily accesible then the fields in Libya though I think that Bill can tell us more about that. He usually does.

Without going too deep into the Libyan oil thing again :p, I'll do the highlights:

1 - Libyan oil is deep in the trackless sands of Fezzan...scorching desert wilderness hundreds of miles from any city, water, or infrastructure. It takes an act of luck to find it. OTL (and pre-POD) the Italians found a small amount of subsurface oil near the coast...far from the real deep well reserves.

2 - It's deep well...very deep well. As of 1940 only one nation on earth has the deep drilling technology to exploit Libyan oil: the USA. Polesti and DEI were shallow well...exploitable by simple 1880's technology.

3 - Fezzan is barely "pacified" in the thirties. Still residual bands of bandits.

It will be post-war before it can be realistically exploited.

PS: welcome to the boards, teknight! :)

Ja mein friend, the italian way of live will be drastically change by obvious reasons(in general will be some similar, but more social conservative and very rabidous anticommunist, and for that expect very american like flims when valerous youth italians(very balbonian like) will save italy/free world/the girl when fight against the red rus/mongol(Eurofed wet dream, because i think he his north italian)

Again the Short term political consecuences is obvios.... Italy will be in the short term in their last legs thanks to Nazi Pressure(obviolues Faraccani, the coward lupino and his Quisling-like north itally is going to be defeated, but only the north of italy is the useful area, and for that, the battles will be hard.... but winable, expect a western front Stalingrad-like in North Italy... maybe Venecia) but again, the Iron wall will be a lot more in the East(maybe a Comunist Prussia Like puppet state or some similar to make East germany or a Warsaw Wall) and Italy will recive a lot of Marshall Plan(and during the war too), and that can help to break the eternal, North-South Political and Economical Division....

well waiting for the Storm, having in hand a Umbrella for that one

Att
Nivek von Beldo

P.S. Maybe Sophia Lorren will be a Balbo lover?

I have plans already rough-hewn for the war and for the post war. joea and others, thanks for the film/fashion stuff again. I had general ideas in the film area, but this discussion helps refine that.

And yes, Ferarra will make a prominent appearance being, effectively, a major symbolic target. ;)

joea64

March 11th, 2010, 02:11 PM

P.S. Maybe Sophia Lorren will be a Balbo lover?

Personally, I'm holding out for "La Lollo" (Gina Lollobrigida) myself, since I think she was hotter than Sophia in her prime, IMHO. :D OTL there was a (mostly) media-driven feud between Lollobrigida and Loren; maybe if they both have romances with the Marshal TTL... ;) (Hey, he won't be 60 yet in the first half of the '50's; Sophia will be a sweet - and curvesome - young thing and Gina will be establishing herself as a major star. Speaking of, I think most of their OTL '50's movies, or analogues thereof, will come off TTL, as they're, for the most part, not especially political; one exception is Gina's Achtung Banditti but TTL that can easily be a feel-good adventure film about heroic Partisans fighting Farinacci's quislings and the SS in occupied northern Italy.)

Geekhis Khan

March 11th, 2010, 02:56 PM

Personally, I'm holding out for "La Lollo" (Gina Lollobrigida) myself, since I think she was hotter than Sophia in her prime, IMHO. :D OTL there was a (mostly) media-driven feud between Lollobrigida and Loren; maybe if they both have romances with the Marshal TTL... ;) (Hey, he won't be 60 yet in the first half of the '50's; Sophia will be a sweet - and curvesome - young thing and Gina will be establishing herself as a major star. Speaking of, I think most of their OTL '50's movies, or analogues thereof, will come off TTL, as they're, for the most part, not especially political; one exception is Gina's Achtung Banditti but TTL that can easily be a feel-good adventure film about heroic Partisans fighting Farinacci's quislings and the SS in occupied northern Italy.)

Okay, no living vicariously through the sexual exploits of a historical figure in an alt TL! :p

As to Achtung...I'd specifically thought about a film covering partisans (I have plans for that)...that looks like just the OTL equivalent I needed. Thanks!

joea64

March 11th, 2010, 03:27 PM

Living vicariously? Moi? (innocent ;))

Here's another film you could do a TTL version of; Luchino (sp?) Visconti's Senso:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senso_(film)

Now, the thing is that OTL Tinto Brass did a (sexually explicit; his speciality is erotica) remake a few years ago, Senso '45, where the lead characters were changed to the wife of a Fascist honcho and a SS officer. A TTL version by Visconti could do pretty much the same, except that the wife's husband is a Farinacci henchman. Alida Valli (whom I mentioned earlier) starred in the original version OTL. Along with La Dolce Vita, this could be a test case for Italian liberalization in the 1950's.

Rakhasa

March 11th, 2010, 05:09 PM

I'm not sure if Claudia Cardinale (b. 1938) makes it under the butterfly cutoff date. She was born in Tunis (at that time under French colonial rule), which is presumably outside the butterfly range at that early point, so I rather hope she does. :) Prewar French actresses who could make their way as refugees to Italy are Arletty, Danielle Darrieux and Edwige Feuillere.

The cutoff date is not birth, it is conception. If wikipedia is to be believed, she was born on 15 april, so the was conceived somewhere around mid july 1937. She does make the cut.

joea64

March 11th, 2010, 05:25 PM

The cutoff date is not birth, it is conception. If wikipedia is to be believed, she was born on 15 april, so the was conceived somewhere around mid july 1937. She does make the cut.

Ah, thanks. Add her definitely to the list, then. I just realized that I forgot one of the towering figures of the period, Vittorio De Sica:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vittorio_De_Sica

Born in 1901/1902 (accounts vary), by 1938 he was already prominent in both stage and film as director and actor. His filmography shows that he managed not to tick off the Fascists OTL, working through the war; he ought to be as prolific or even more TTL.

And there's also Roberto Rossellini, born 1906.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Rossellini

VERY interesting: he's a friend of Vittorio Mussolini, the son of the late Duce. Wiki suggests this is a reason for his getting preferential assignments in film in his early career. The question is, which faction does he support now? (And I think his romance with Ingrid Bergman would be butterflied away, depending.)

In fact, the more research I do on the Italian film stars and directors of the 1930's, the more evidence I turn up that most of them stayed on and worked throughout the Fascist era and the war years (in contrast to the German film industry, where many of the brightest lights decamped for Hollywood during the 1930's). At this point, I'm beginning to have a hard time thinking of anyone in the cinema industry who fled Italy for political reasons during that period OTL. Maybe Lounge60 or one of the other Italian forum members knows?

Geekhis Khan

March 18th, 2010, 01:02 PM

Krystallnacht, that was the turning point for Italo. Up until that point was what we now call the Triumvirate, though nobody called it by that name at the time, of course. It was, of course, more complicated than just the three. But I talk on.

Italo, he was gaining ground with the people and many in the army as Hitler keep expanding. Now, Grandi, of course, was very popular after Munich, since it looked like he'd peacefully ended German aggression, but then not long after their tanks they rolled into Prague and all saw through the facade of Munich...like Italo; he had seen already. But I get ahead.

It was that fall, or winter, I forget, in thirty-eight. It was not so long after Munich when that Jew kid he killed a German diplomat in Paris. I forget the whole story, something about his parents getting arrested or deported, but anyway he shoots this German and the Nazis they go insane. Insaner, maybe.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Ernst-vom-Rath.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Herschel_Grynszpan_nov_7_1938.jpg
Nazi diplomat Ernst vom Rath and his assassin Herschel Grynszpan

Many, many, many shops got torched. It was like the [Fascist] revolution, only not a righteous struggle against Red terrorists but a pogrom against the Jews. Many, many were killed and the rest they were arrested. We find later that was the start of the camps, yes? [Shakes head] Barbarians!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a7/Kristallnacht_example_of_physical_damage.jpg
Some of the post-Krystallnacht damage

Most they were shocked, but Italo, he was irate! He go on and on about it in the chamber [of deputies] that he wanted formal decry of the actions but he gets silenced. At the time they think he talk too much against Germany. Yes, they all afraid of Germany and all but maybe Farinacci and his ones hate Germany, but they were afraid that Italo bring down German army on Italy, so they try to quiet him. [Laughs] I could tell them from our days as youths together that you want Italo to be loud you tell him to be quiet!

So Italo, shut up in the chamber, he goes to the papers and the streets. His old friends from Ferarra and [Margherita] Sarfatti, they helped to finance and organize with him in Rome a great march in support of the innocents lost in the Krystallnacht. Italo called in friends from the church including the Bishop from Ferarra and they made a prayer of it as well. It was a solemn event, not the wild riot that was by some predicted. It was not just Rome, but some other small marches at the same time in many cities and towns. It gained him much attention in Italia and in the other countries including in Germany.

But like I say earlier, it was the big turning point for Italo. He made many new allies and made solid his old allies. He gained attention for not riot making when many expect the old Blackshirt strategies. Many old worries that he would be too radical did go away then. More came to see his way later.

The first spring in thirty-nine Hitler move his tanks into Prague. Then we hear Ribbentrop he meet with King Peter [of Yugoslavia]. No one knew what was said, but many then fear Germany too much more. It was then that the king he meet privately with Italo.

Edmondo Balbo, Italo’s older brother, from a taped interview in 1962.

joea64

March 18th, 2010, 01:27 PM

And here I was fixing to ask when you were going to update. Brilliant, and I'm glad you used my idea about Balbo leading a great protest march! :) In fact, Edmondo Balbo's description has kind of inspired me - would you object terribly if I tried my hand at writing up a newspaper article account of the march (maybe from the New York Times)?

Geekhis Khan

March 18th, 2010, 01:32 PM

joea64

March 18th, 2010, 02:20 PM

Here we go, then - (this is a draft, can be changed as necessary):

BIGGEST ITALIAN RALLY SINCE DEATH OF MUSSOLINI DECRIES GERMAN POGROM

By Herbert L. Matthews
New York Times Bureau Correspondent, Rome

November 21, 1938

Tens of thousands of Italians turned out in peaceful marches in the streets of Rome and other major cities today to protest the recent anti-Jewish pogroms in Germany, nicknamed "Kristallnacht", or "Night of Crystal", after the windows broken during the unrest. Nearly 100 Jews are reported to have been killed by Nazi-led rioters, and thousands of others have reportedly been arrested and interned in concentration camps; hundreds of synagogues and Jewish-owned businesses were also wrecked.

Marshal Italo Balbo, Italy's Interior Minister and a member of the ruling "Triumvirate", led the largest protest march in Rome. Accompanied by his wife, Countess Emanuela Florio, and by Margherita Sarfatti, an Italian Jewess and prominent Fascist activist and lawyer, the Marshal marched in full Air Force uniform at the head of a huge but orderly throng which included the Roman Catholic bishop of his hometown, Ferrara; hundreds of Fascist Party officials and "Blackshirts" allied with Balbo's faction; Roman aristocrats, businessmen, and other prominent Italians friendly to the Marshal; delegations from Jewish communities all across Italy; and many thousands of ordinary Italians of all professions and classes. March organizers claimed that a quarter of a million took part in the rally, but the Carabineri (the Italian national police) estimated the size of the crowd at being in the 100,000 - 125,000 range. In any event, the march (along with other, smaller, rallies in cities across the peninsula) certainly qualifies as being the largest political gathering in Italy since the death of Benito Mussolini, Italy's former Duce.

Despite rumors that Balbo would incite the crowd to storm the German Embassy or stir up other violence, the march was, from this correspondent's viewpoint, exceptionally peaceful. One striking incident did happen as the throng passed the German Embassy; Marshal Balbo called out in Italian to those pacing behind him, "Eyes left!", and thousands of the protesters turned their faces away from the German compound, in a dramatic reversal of the usual salute given during military parades. The strong police presence on the march route no doubt helped preserve the peace, especially in keeping the marchers separate from the smaller groups of pro-German counter-demonstrators, whom observers said were affiliated with Balbo's fellow Triumvir and chief rival, Roberto Farinacci.

The march ended at the (where?), where the Bishop of Ferrara, in full regalia and accompanied by other priests, led prayers for those killed in the rioting in Germany. Afterward, Signorina Sarfatti and Marshal Balbo addressed the crowd, sharply condemning the pogrom and German anti-Semitic actions in general. Marshal Balbo's speech was unusually restrained considering his evident anger and the anti-Nazi speeches he has recently given in the Chamber of Deputies (which have, reportedly, resulted in orders from the Fascist Grand Council to moderate the tone of his public pronouncements), but he pulled no punches in decrying what he termed Nazi "barbarism" against Germany's Jewish citizens...

joea64

March 18th, 2010, 02:32 PM

By the way, are there any photographs or portraits of Balbo's wife, Countess Emanuela Florio, nicknamed "Donna Manu", on the net? I've searched but can't find any.

Also, I'd suggest that it may be around this time that the Nazis let certain papers and figures begin openly attacking Balbo, since he's taken his own gloves off. Julius Streicher and his rag Der Stürmer are obvious candidates, especially because Streicher can get his jollies making obscene insinuations about Balbo's amours (he may be one of the ones spreading canards about Balbo and Sarfatti, recycled in Italy by Farinacci's gang).

Geekhis Khan

March 18th, 2010, 03:06 PM

Very nice, joea. I like. I'll make some edits and add it in. :)

On Dona Manu, there's an image in Segre's book of Balbo, Manu, and the kids that might be scanable, but nothing I've found on the net.

On the German responses...upcoming! ;)

joea64

March 18th, 2010, 03:19 PM

Go for it! :) Regarding scans, I take it you're in the DC area; if you didn't already know, you can use laptops, flatbed scanners and digital cameras in the Library of Congress - I've done it on several occasions myself in the last few years.

Another possible line from Balbo's speech that I thought of just now:

"Italians, the rods of our fasces stand for the unity of the entire nation, without regard to class or creed. Yet, we see that the barbarians in the north, in their lunacy, break the rods of their own fasces!"

And by the way, if Hitler and Stalin conclude their non-aggression pact TTL, Italians will be well advised to buy earplugs, for Balbo's roar of "AHA! I told you so!!!" can be heard from London to Istanbul.

lounge60

March 18th, 2010, 07:01 PM

By the way, are there any photographs or portraits of Balbo's wife, Countess Emanuela Florio, nicknamed "Donna Manu", on the net? I've searched but can't find any.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5169/3a8b3.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3595/fc743.jpg

joea64

March 18th, 2010, 07:11 PM

Grazie! :) A bit blurry, but one can tell that Donna Manu was an exceptionally stylish lady. (Goes well with my earlier remarks on how the Marshal may want to encourage the Italian couture industry as a way to boost Italian prosperity and prestige.)

H'mmm, come to think on it, a while back Geekhis - or was it you? - posted a pic of Balbo out hunting, accompanied by two elegant ladies in the height of 1920's fashion. Might one of them have been the Countess?

Geekhis Khan

March 18th, 2010, 07:28 PM

Thanks again, lounge!

The hunting pic was lounge as well. It's in there a few pages back...

joea64

March 20th, 2010, 12:52 AM

I am an idiot, an absolute dunce. I totally and completely forgot a well-known American who should have at least a footnote in this saga:

Ezra Pound.

This great poet, OTL, became infamous for his broadcasts from Rome in WWII where he backed the Fascist position; he was arrested for treason after the war and held in quite appalling conditions (where he produced some of his best poetry, the Pisan Cantos), but was later released due to his mental illness. I should certainly expect his fate TTL will be quite different!

joea64

March 20th, 2010, 04:11 AM

LOL...you guys! :p

Seriously, though, don't put too much on the Dice. They're more of a simple way of introducing some randomness...and no, I don't plan on running the entire war with them. In fact, I don't even plan on using them to determine Pearl Harbor [1]...that was just an example. The entire course of events of the TL will first and foremost be based on likely outcomes from a plausible POD guided a bit by the AH framework. The dice will only come in on occasion when I really can't predict what's going to happen.

1 - Assuming there even IS a PH as OTL. I'm still trying to determine how important Taranto was to PH being attempted. Sure, there's the R-J war example, but that was a more traditional assault on an enemy in a nearby port rather than an "everything on a throw of the dice", as it were, attack a quarter of the way across the planet.

I apologize if I'm responding to this particular post so late (over 2 months!),but I wanted to toss my own boardgaming experience in. As it happens, I've been boardgaming since the late 1970's, so I'm very familiar with the Combat Results Table (CRT) that James Dunnigan and Redmond Simonsen put together for Simulations Publications in the 1970's, so I can attest that it's reasonably accurate.

Oh, and since you're having Sinatra's early career track OTL, if he and Ava Gardner meet, can they stay together? Please? :) (To keep this on topic, maybe the Marshal intervenes? ;) )

joea64

March 20th, 2010, 04:26 AM

More Balbo pictures.

Casual.
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/4371/b10x.jpg

Going back through the thread and looking at the old posts; this picture is not just Magnificent Bastard, this is Classic Rock'n'Roll. One expects the Marshal to step up to a jukebox, smack it in the manner of old-time Elvis, then swing into "Jailhouse Rock". :D Then yet again, he could be hunting for an ice-cream-soda shop. Did the Italians even have the concept of ice cream sodas in the 1930's? :D

Geekhis Khan

March 29th, 2010, 02:07 PM

The diplomatic situation in the Balkans on the eve of the Second World War was far more complicated than the west-vs.-central duality. The scattering of young, politically unstable nation-states left in the aftermath of the first war were a veritable political and ethnic minefield diplomatically. A complicated ethnic gumbo of race, religion, and self-identity led to constant internal as well as external troubles. Borders were disputed. In many regions there was no clear ethnic majority or even plurality. As the greater powers vied for influence in the region and the various political, ideological, and ethnic parties vied for power, the region became an area of shifting partnerships and rotating patrons. The young nation-states of Hungary, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, and Turkey all struggled for regional control, irredentist claims, and all opposed expansionism from the irredentist Soviet, Italian, and German nations.

The Kingdom of Hungary, newly restored after a brief Communist takeover, had several irredentist claims in the wake of the "dismemberment" of the Treaty of Trianon. This led to disputes with Romania over Transylvania, Czechoslovakia over Slovakia, Yugoslavia over Croatia, Slavonia, and Vojvodina, and even former co-monarchical Austria over border regions. Hungary at this time was a constitutional monarchy ruled by regent Admiral Miklós Horthy and a parliamentary body. Politically, the nation was conservative and growingly nationalistic and antisemitic, yet also beset by growing revolutionary Authori-Collectivist political movements, the most notable being the Arrow Cross party under Ferenc Szálasi, who felt the nation wasn't moving towards militaristic totalitarianism fast enough. As of 1938 the Prime Minister was Béla Imrédy, an ambitious right-wing politician and anti-Semite who, curiously, was pro-British in his sentiments. Hungary, particularly after the Anschluss, was increasingly being drawn into the German sphere of influence and many, even those with pro-German sentiments, feared an imminent loss of national sovereignty. Imrédy, hoping to resist German domination, sent out feelers to the Italian government, meeting secretly with Grandi. While the actual discussions were lost, tidbits from journels and letters hint that talks included a potential division of Yugoslavian lands in the advent of war. While the discussions stopped short of a formal alliance or even secret mutual defense pact, they do signal an interesting ramification of Italy's shift away from Germany in the wake of Anschluss.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Horthy_the_regent.jpg
Hungarian Regent Miklós Horthy

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Bela_Imredy.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Szalasioath.jpg
Hungarian Prime Minister Béla Imrédy and Arrow Cross leader Ferenc Szálasi

The Kingdom of Romania, which had increased in size dramatically following the end of the First World War and the subsequent war with Communist Hungary with the annexation of Transylvania, Bessarabia, and Bukovina, was similarly growing in nationalism. This newfound România Mare, or Great Romania, accounted for one of the largest territorial Romanian states in history, but brought with it the enmity of its neighbors. The Soviet Union lay claim to Bessarabia and northern Bukovina while the resurgent Hungary lay claim to Transylvania. King Caroll II, ruler since 1930 when he reneged on his earlier renunciation of the crown to his son Michael I, hoped to establish a cult of personality around himself and cement his own power. He attempted to play the various factions of his nation off on each other, particularly the Authori-Collectivist Iron Guard. This revolutionary paramilitary group, under the command of young Horia Sima following the state execution of his predecessor and movement founder Corneliu Zelea Codreanu, was proving a continual thorn in his side, particularly as many within the government, most notably authoritarian politician Ion Antonescu, sympathized with the group's aims.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/King_Carol_II_of_Romania.jpg
King Carol II of Romania

http://www.nndb.com/people/345/000117991/ion-antonescu-1-sized.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Horia_Sima.jpg
Authoritarian politician Ion Antonescu and Iron Guard leader Horia Sima

The Kingdom of Bulgaria, a constitutional monarchy under Tsar Boris III, held both a generational grudge with Turkey and irredentist claims on Romanian-held Dobruja and Yugoslav- and Greek-held Macedonia plus a strategic interest in capturing Thrace as an Aegean outlet to bypass the Turkish-controlled Dardanelles. Tsar Boris had recently resumed control of the nation following the expelling of the Zveno military dictatorship. He opposed Germany's antisemitic policies and met with Hitler mostly out of realpolitik considerations. He was also married to Giovanna, daughter of Italy's King Victor Emmanuel III, giving personal connection to Italy. Tsar Boris found himself in an odd position of being courted by many players. Germany sought alliance while Italy and the Soviet Union were putting out feelers over respective irredentist claims against Yugoslavia and Romania.

http://helmet.0catch.com/bIII.jpg
Tsar Boris III of Bulgaria

The Kingdom of Yugoslavia, then under the rule of regent Prince Paul following the 1934 assassination of Alexander III, was struggling for survival amid internal dissent and external irredentism. Serbian-dominated Yugoslavia remained nominally allied to France against Italy, who held irredentist claims on the Dalmatian coast. She also suffered terrible internal strife and ethnic dissent made all the worse by religious clashes among Orthodox, Catholic, and Muslim members. Croats and Slovenes in the northern former Austrian territories felt increasingly disenfranchised and nationalist movements were growing in both groups. One Croatian group under Nationalist politician Vladko Maček was pushing for autonomy and had secret ties to Germany and Italy. He would eventually gain nominal Croat home rule in 1939 through the creation of the Banovina of Croatia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Paul2.jpg
Prince Paul, Regent of Yugoslavia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Vladko_macek.jpg
Croation Nationalist Vladko Maček

By the dawn of 1939 the tacitly-approved conquest of Czechoslovakia by the rampant German Reich had thrown the already volatile situation into chaos. Hungary and Poland had both participated in the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia, the former seizing southern Slovakia and Carpathian Ruthenia, the latter seizing Zaolzie. With this move the Reich began to push its sphere of influence directly into the Balkans. Hungary was, through her participation in the Czechoslovak dismemberment, being further drawn into the German sphere. Yet Germany maintained economic interest in her rival Romania, whose oil fields provided a major source of petroleum to the Reich.

Had the short-lived Rome-Berlin Axis persisted it is likely that the two great Authori-Collectivist powers would have increasingly come to dominate the region, with any power that stepped out of line coerced into acquiescence or outright conquered. However, the death of the Axis and the growing distance between Germany and Italy complicated matters greatly in the region. Bulgaria quickly fell into the Italian camp causing anxiety for Turkey, Greece, Yugoslavia, and Romania. Romania, still distrustful of Hungary yet increasingly tied economically to Germany and perpetually in fear of the Soviet threat, knew not which way to lean. Meanwhile, Hungary, seeking a potential counter to the increasing fears of de facto German rule, kept channels open to Italy and through them Bulgaria. Romanian fears of an Italian-backed Hungaro-Bulgarian alliance pushed Bucharest towards Berlin, further pushing Budapest towards Rome. Were Hungary to cut ties with Germany and fall completely into a potentially hostile Italian camp, land routes between Romanian oil and German industry could be cut off. Hoping to counter Italian influence in the region and make an implicit threat to Italy, Germany in a surprise move that went in utter opposition to stated racialist policy met with Yugoslavia in a well-publicized state visit by von Ribbentrop.

This state visit was the final catalyst in an already growingly dualistic Balkan situation. Right on the heels of the Sudeten Crisis, this new Balkan Crisis took the world by storm. On one side you had Germany indirectly backing Yugoslavia and Romania against an Italian-backed Hungary, Bulgaria, and Albania. Greece and Turkey met in secret, signing a secret non-aggression and mutual-defense pact in the advent of invasion by Italy or any of its agents. France, who maintained an anti-Italian alliance with Yugoslavia and nominal ties to Romania through the remains of the Little Entente, was terrified of being drawn into another war over the Balkans...to the benefit of Germany, no less! Britain, which had likewise assured the independence of Romania, feared being drawn in to what was to most British subjects a German-Italian affair.

Looming in the east, Stalin set his sights on the region, eagerly awaiting what appeared to be the imminent self-destruction of the bourgeois imperialists. The chance to reassert Russian domination in the Balkans was too good to pass up. The Soviet Embassy in Rome began to speak with the Fascist government in much more positive tones, dropping hints and political feelers.

While the League of Nations debated endlessly and the French and British governments argued into the night over their respective stances, armies began to mobilize throughout central and eastern Europe. A military snowball of the likes not seen since 1914 began to form and neared the tipping point.

From Warriors, Diplomats, Statesmen, Dictators – the Political and Diplomatic History of Europe in the Twentieth Century, by Dr. Eric Spellman, Harvard University, 1994

joea64

March 29th, 2010, 02:21 PM

*cheers* Next installment!!! :)

Very interesting summary of the Balkan/southeastern European situation as of early 1939. Whereas OTL the area was an Axis preserve, TTL it's clearly going to be one of the major arenas of conflict in WWII - might even be where it starts, if something doesn't blow in Poland first.

At first glance, the overtures of Stalin toward Rome are surprising; if one didn't know better, one might wonder if Stalin had forgotten just how hostile Fascist ideology is toward Communism. Then again, Stalin does know that. What he's doing is exploiting the divisions between the Authori-Collectivist states as much as he can. I'm pretty sure he's sending out feelers to Berlin as well. The question is, how will Balbo react? Will he go all anti-Communist or will he take the pragmatic attitude that the enemy of his Nazi enemy is his (temporary) friend?

Geekhis Khan

March 29th, 2010, 03:00 PM

As a reminder of OTL events earlier in the TL, there was a "little detente" between Mussolini and Stalin in the 20's punctuated by Balbo's eastern Mediterranean armada flight landing in Odessa. Mussie openly wondered if Stalin's 5 year plans marked a turn towards "Fascism" by the Soviet dictator.

Let that one ferment in your heads as you all await the next update. :D

joea64

March 29th, 2010, 03:09 PM

I had forgotten about that one. So should we prepare to Photoshop a photograph of Stalin smirking over the shoulder of Grandi as he signs the Fascist-Soviet Pact? :D (I believe the original photo of Stalin and the jumped-up champagne salesman - which is to say, von Ribbentrop - is in the American Heritage picture history of WWII.)

On another front: you know which other famous aviation hero should have an encounter with Balbo? Lucky Lindy, that's who. OTL, Charles Lindbergh was at this time becoming one of the leading advocates of isolationism in the U.S. Might Balbo try to get into contact with him via correspondence, or perhaps invite him to Italy, to try to change his perspective on just how dangerous the Nazis really are?

maverick

March 29th, 2010, 04:39 PM

Oh! Imagine Lindbergh going to Italy rather than Germany! :D

On the other hand, I'm disappointed since Balbo hasn't conquered Albania, no matter how funny King "Zog" might be as a name...

joea64

March 29th, 2010, 04:46 PM

Oh! Imagine Lindbergh going to Italy rather than Germany! :D

On the other hand, I'm disappointed since Balbo hasn't conquered Albania, no matter how funny King "Zog" might be as a name...

Well, I believe Lindbergh already has visited Germany before the POD. It's more a matter of Balbo trying to turn Lindy back to the right path, so to speak.

And it'd be a bit difficult for Balbo to conquer Albania seeing as how he's not even Duce yet. :D I think Italy's actually comparatively turned-inward at the moment while they watch to see who comes out on top. Balbo might be content to keep Albania as a compliant satellite, part of the alliance coalescing with Hungary and Bulgaria. We'll see what we'll see.

maverick

March 29th, 2010, 04:50 PM

Well, I believe Lindbergh already has visited Germany before the POD. It's more a matter of Balbo trying to turn Lindy back to the right path, so to speak.

And it'd be a bit difficult for Balbo to conquer Albania seeing as how he's not even Duce

When there's a will, there's a way;)

A true magnificent bastard like Balbo would know that and wouldn't leave such a detail from deterring him...:p

Geekhis Khan

March 29th, 2010, 05:00 PM

mailinutile2

March 29th, 2010, 05:03 PM

And it'd be a bit difficult for Balbo to conquer Albania seeing as how he's not even Duce yet. :D I think Italy's actually comparatively turned-inward at the moment while they watch to see who comes out on top. Balbo might be content to keep Albania as a compliant satellite, part of the alliance coalescing with Hungary and Bulgaria. We'll see what we'll see.

Without Galeazzo Ciano's psicological urge to prove himself worth of his father-in-law in '39 (and without the Ciano family involvment in the oil refinment industry), waging war to Albania is not something to be comtemplated.
"Poor as Albania" is an idyomatic phrase in the italian language to indicate something utterly miserable and totally worthless

joea64

March 29th, 2010, 05:09 PM

Well, Lindbergh's likely to have difficulty with Balbo's "love for the Jews" though his nominal democratic tendencies, however buried, will resonate more with him than Hitler's "fanaticism". Either nation's Racial Darwinism will mesh with him, though Germany's certainly "ahead" on the eugenics front. His Nordicism will similarly make him more likely to lean towards Germany rather than a "mongrel state" like Italy. Still, it should be interesting how he deals with the schism in "fascism".

One amusing thing would be to have Italian-American demonstrate against him and in support of American aid to Italy outside America First rallies. :D For that matter, you could have pro-Italian American Fascists brawl with Fritz Kuhn's German-American Bund!

joea64

March 29th, 2010, 05:12 PM

Without Galeazzo Ciano's psicological urge to prove himself worth of his father-in-law in '39 (and without the Ciano family involvment in the oil refinment industry), waging war to Albania is not something to be comtemplated.
"Poor as Albania" is an idyomatic phrase in the italian language to indicate something utterly miserable and totally worthless

Exactly, which is why I'm leaning toward Italy's sticking with keeping Albania as its obedient satellite. If German-leaning Yugoslavia should invade Albania, for instance, Italy can earn propaganda credits by going to the aid of poor little defenseless Albania...

joea64

March 30th, 2010, 12:15 PM

Geekhis Khan

March 30th, 2010, 12:57 PM

On rereading the latest installment, a couple more comments:

1) At first glance, it seems astonishing that Greece and Turkey would form a mutual defense pact so soon after their bitter war in the early 1920's and their long history of mutual antagonism. Then again, these are the same Greece and Turkey who swallowed said antagonism to join NATO out of fear of the Soviet Union. I note that this secret treaty is aimed at Italy. I daresay they'll find out that it's Germany they really have to worry about...

Well, the pact is strictly limited in scope to an attack from Italy/Bulgaria/Albania and is an almost entirely panic-driven reaction to what looks like a looming war. They haven't set aside their own problems, they've just realized they're possibly facing a larger mutual threat. Don't expect this to signal detente or any lasting alliance.

2) On the western end of the Mediterranean, I'd expect Germany and Italy to be stepping up their diplomatic efforts to woo Spain to their side. Germany, though, may have more to offer than Italy, as I shouldn't think the Anglophile Balbo would agree to Spain's swallowing up Gibraltar, which is going to be a key demand of Franco's in exchange for any alliance.

Spain is pretty much going to play both ends of the divide and sit things out as OTL.

Also, have you finished the installment yet on international - especially German - reaction to Balbo's activities on behalf of the German Jews?

Coming up hopefully by the end of this week is a large Balbian-related update, including international reactions.

Rakhasa

March 30th, 2010, 03:24 PM

2) On the western end of the Mediterranean, I'd expect Germany and Italy to be stepping up their diplomatic efforts to woo Spain to their side. Germany, though, may have more to offer than Italy, as I shouldn't think the Anglophile Balbo would agree to Spain's swallowing up Gibraltar, which is going to be a key demand of Franco's in exchange for any alliance.

Franco never wanted Gibraltar (not in a serious, "lets invade next month", way, I mean, he'd have loved to own it). Whatever his faults as a dictator, he was a realist, and knew the state of Spains' post war infraestructure, so he asked fo Gibraltar, French africa and whatnot to make sure Hitler refused.

But Balbo's Italy so far does not seem as likely as Hitler to demand troops than Spain cannot afford, so he could be far friendlier to Balbo than he was to Hitler (and he DID send a division to Germany to help fight the communists). I would not be surprised than if/when the Italian Axis goes to war with Stalin, the Division Azul -and even several divisions- went to help Italy instead of Germany.

It would also help to further separate Fascism from Nazism, if most of the European fascist nations are hostile to Hitler.

mailinutile2

March 30th, 2010, 03:37 PM

[QUOTE=Rakhasa;3220580]But Balbo's Italy so far does not seem as likely as Hitler to demand troops than Spain cannot afford, so he could be far friendlier to Balbo than he was to Hitler (and he DID send a division to Germany to help fight the communists). I would not be surprised than if/when the Italian Axis goes to war with Stalin, the Division Azul -and even several divisions- went to help Italy instead of Germany.QUOTE]

Definitely agree.
When post-war Italy was almost-bankrupted in OTL, Franco gave it 5,000,000,000 lire (approx. euro 2,500,000 and those were the late forties!) to Italy "as a sign of gratitude for what Italy did during that Civil war".
The funny part is that the italian foreign minister was an ex-fighter of the spanish civil war (anti-franco-ist side), but he had to gulp down his objection and smile all along, because Italy needed so badly that money.

Franza o Spagna, purché se magna !

joea64

March 30th, 2010, 03:48 PM

Franco never wanted Gibraltar (not in a serious, "lets invade next month", way, I mean, he'd have loved to own it). Whatever his faults as a dictator, he was a realist, and knew the state of Spains' post war infraestructure, so he asked fo Gibraltar, French africa and whatnot to make sure Hitler refused.

But Balbo's Italy so far does not seem as likely as Hitler to demand troops than Spain cannot afford, so he could be far friendlier to Balbo than he was to Hitler (and he DID send a division to Germany to help fight the communists). I would not be surprised than if/when the Italian Axis goes to war with Stalin, the Division Azul -and even several divisions- went to help Italy instead of Germany.

It would also help to further separate Fascism from Nazism, if most of the European fascist nations are hostile to Hitler.

Interesting. I do remember back on the first page, there was a note to the effect that Balbo almost lost everything at one point by confronting the Soviet Union. Are you conjecturing that Italy might, along with its minor allies, face off against Stalin over southeastern Europe after Nazi Germany is defeated, without trying to secure the support of the Western Allies first? Such a course of action on Balbo's part would be...unwise.

Jimbrock

March 30th, 2010, 05:48 PM

Oo, war approaches. Well, lets have it then, hurry up with the update!:D

Herr Frage

March 30th, 2010, 06:55 PM

joea64

March 30th, 2010, 07:34 PM

The plot thickens. But then when the Balkans are innvolved nothing is ever simple. Admiral Horthy i do not like at all, but still if it keeps the Communistws out he can be ebnedured. Though if the Kingdomn endures I will hold out hope for Otto getting the crown of Saint Stephwen eventually. Bulgaria I have a soft spot for, especially with Tsar Boris III taking a stance against Nazism.

I assume Zog is still King of Albania?

Alright with the way this is shaping up I an guessing that post war Yugoslavia will be divided between Italy, Hungary, and Albania(Kosovo), with a rump sebian client state. Bulgaria survives at least, grabs its dispuited teritory from Communist held Romania. Hungary losses Eastetn Territory to Svoiets who establish a communist East Hungary. Balbo almost loses evrything by trying to wrangele occupied Hungary and Romania out of the Soviets.

Most likely wrong but there is my guess.

One way the division of Yugoslavia could happen is for Hungary to take Croatia back (which it ruled as part of "Transleithiana" in Austro-Hungarian times) and perhaps Bosnia as well, Italy to take Slovenia and the Adriatic coast, Albania to take Kosovo, and the Serbian rump to occupy the rest (including Montenegro). From hints Geekhis has dropped, it appears that the East-West line will be further east than OTL (no doubt because of the active involvement of Italy in southeastern Europe), though I have no idea yet what the postwar Italian-Soviet flashpoint will be. I'm pretty certain that the USSR will occupy Bessarabia/Moldavia as per OTL. Not sure if they'll jigger the German/Polish borders postwar as well. Also, not sure in what form Czechoslovakia and Austria resurrect postwar.

Spatharios

March 31st, 2010, 03:47 AM

First off, my congratulations on a great, very detailed and well-written timeline!

1) At first glance, it seems astonishing that Greece and Turkey would form a mutual defense pact so soon after their bitter war in the early 1920's and their long history of mutual antagonism. Then again, these are the same Greece and Turkey who swallowed said antagonism to join NATO out of fear of the Soviet Union. I note that this secret treaty is aimed at Italy. I daresay they'll find out that it's Germany they really have to worry about...Actually, at this time relations between Turkey and Greece were rather cordial, after the rapprochement between Venizelos and Atatürk in 1930, and the signing of the Balkan pact in 1934. IIRC, IOTL Greece even asked Turkey for exactly such an alliance, but the Turks (wisely) declined, since the Balkans were falling under Axis control very quickly. The pact has actually every prospect of holding for the duration of the "crisis", and both countries might manage to remain neutral in the coming war, since Balbo isn't really the type to invade Greece with three divisions over mountains in winter just to make a point to Hitler.

One problem is what will happen to Greece after Metaxas dies in 1941. His dictatorship depended mostly upon the King and the royalist army leadership, and was barely tolerated. Once Metaxas is gone, there is no one to take his place as a figurehead, so there will be either an open royal regime as in Romania (in which case Greece will definitively be pro-British) or a return to parliamentary politics, either gradual and controlled by the king or abrupt and possibly violent.

Geekhis Khan

March 31st, 2010, 11:12 AM

I assume Zog is still King of Albania?

Yes, Zog's still officially in charge, though as OTL pretty much at the mercy of Rome.

ATL as others have mentioned there's no impetus for Balbo to invade Albania. Why bother taking over what you practically own already? Besides, as others have mentioned the OTL invasion was pretty much done spur of the moment as a reactionary attempt at oneupmanship following Hitler. ATL with most of Italy being turned away from Germany and the Axis pretty much gone, there's less impetus to try and remain number one in the alliance.

First off, my congratulations on a great, very detailed and well-written timeline!

Actually, at this time relations between Turkey and Greece were rather cordial, after the rapprochement between Venizelos and Atatürk in 1930, and the signing of the Balkan pact in 1934. IIRC, IOTL Greece even asked Turkey for exactly such an alliance, but the Turks (wisely) declined, since the Balkans were falling under Axis control very quickly. The pact has actually every prospect of holding for the duration of the "crisis", and both countries might manage to remain neutral in the coming war, since Balbo isn't really the type to invade Greece with three divisions over mountains in winter just to make a point to Hitler.

One problem is what will happen to Greece after Metaxas dies in 1941. His dictatorship depended mostly upon the King and the royalist army leadership, and was barely tolerated. Once Metaxas is gone, there is no one to take his place as a figurehead, so there will be either an open royal regime as in Romania (in which case Greece will definitively be pro-British) or a return to parliamentary politics, either gradual and controlled by the king or abrupt and possibly violent.

Thanks, Spatharios, and welcome! :)

Thanks also for the info on Greco-Turkish relations at the time. I'm still trying to sort things out in the Balkans. Like so many others before me it's proving a monumental task and I'm having to rely on gut as much as anything. I'm glad my gut feelings are plausible in this instance.

The Balkans in general, pre-, peri-, and post-war, will prove very interesting in the Chinese sense.

joea64

March 31st, 2010, 11:29 AM

[QUOTE=Geekhis Khan;3222807]Yes, Zog's still officially in charge, though as OTL pretty much at the mercy of Rome.

ATL as others have mentioned there's no impetus for Balbo to invade Albania. Why bother taking over what you practically own already? Besides, as others have mentioned the OTL invasion was pretty much done spur of the moment as a reactionary attempt at oneupmanship following Hitler. ATL with most of Italy being turned away from Germany and the Axis pretty much gone, there's less impetus to try and remain number one in the alliance.
[QUOTE]

I'd think, though, that the pro-monarchist Balbo will be handling Zog in a more velvet-glove kind of way, along with the Tsar of Bulgaria. Also, assuming the Hungarian regime of Admiral Horthy survives the war, might he encourage an outright revival of the monarchy afterward (by getting Austria's Archduke Otto on the throne, as another poster suggested)?

Geekhis Khan

March 31st, 2010, 11:41 AM

joea64

March 31st, 2010, 11:48 AM

FYI, I wouldn't call Balbo "pro-monarchist" in general considering his Mazzinian Republican background. OTL and ATL he courted the favor of the Italian crown, but this was more 'playing the game' than out of any inherent sense of monarchism. He's the type to gladly work with a King, Duce, President, PM, Generalissimo, or Head Dog Catcher in the service of a Higher Cause, be that cause "Italy" or "Balbo".

True, however, people - for instance, the lazier segments of the American media - who didn't take the time to dig into his ideological background would look at his friendly relations with King Victor Emmanuel, his close associations with Italian aristocrats, etc. and probably leap to the conclusion that he was sympathetic to monarchism - especially if they see him palling around with King Zog and Tsar Boris.

Geekhis Khan

March 31st, 2010, 05:53 PM

Interesting link I came across: a site on the Italian Pavilion at the Chicago Century of Progress fair (the one Balbo's Armada flew to in 1933). There's some great images featuring Futurist art and architecture, unfortunately none larger than a damned thumbnail. Enjoy! :)

http://www.mercurio-exhibits.com/online/italian/index.htm

xt828

April 1st, 2010, 03:01 AM

mailinutile2

April 1st, 2010, 10:04 AM

IIRC the reason that the Italians were even considering invading Albania was the birth of Zog's heir, Leka. It was seen as a concerning step towards independence. Obviously the prime motivator was wanting to match the recent German expansion, but it's interesting nontheless.
I'm sorry it isn't so.
OTL the Albanian mess was masterminded by Galeazzo Ciano who
1) had at the time a psycological complex towards his father-in-law and was yearning to prove himself worth by adding some land to Italy (M added Ethiopia)
2) the Ciano famiy was heavily involved in oil refinement industry, and some oil was being found in Albania at the time
3) the birth on an heir to Zod did not mean a step towards independence, but rather another opportunity of consolidating control on Albania (through marriage: a similar move was about to be done a few years before, trying to arrange a marriage between Zog himself and a daugher/cousin/I-do-not-remember-exactly of Vittorio Emmanuele III, but at the end the effort failed for Vittorio Emmanuele opposition)
4) Albania was strategically, economically and militarly worhtless. the king said just after the invasion [sic]: "does something think that acquiring a few pebbles [questi quattro sassi] was worth waging a war?"
On the other hand, being the Foreign minister, Ciano tried to find some "strategical" justification in "wanting to match the recent German expansion".
However, his "politic of building a balcan wall against german expansionst" was quite confuse and contradictory (to say the least), and considering that HE was the man signing the steel pact, that's funny, really :D

joea64

April 1st, 2010, 11:24 AM

I'm sorry it isn't so.
OTL the Albanian mess was masterminded by Galeazzo Ciano who
1) had at the time a psycological complex towards his father-in-law and was yearning to prove himself worth by adding some land to Italy (M added Ethiopia)
2) the Ciano famiy was heavily involved in oil refinement industry, and some oil was being found in Albania at the time
3) the birth on an heir to Zod did not mean a step towards independence, but rather another opportunity of consolidating control on Albania (through marriage: a similar move was about to be done a few years before, trying to arrange a marriage between Zog himself and a daugher/cousin/I-do-not-remember-exactly of Vittorio Emmanuele III, but at the end the effort failed for Vittorio Emmanuele opposition)
4) Albania was strategically, economically and militarly worhtless. the king said just after the invasion [sic]: "does something think that acquiring a few pebbles [questi quattro sassi] was worth waging a war?"
On the other hand, being the Foreign minister, Ciano tried to find some "strategical" justification in "wanting to match the recent German expansion".
However, his "politic of building a balcan wall against german expansionst" was quite confuse and contradictory (to say the least), and considering that HE was the man signing the steel pact, that's funny, really :D

All good reasons why Italy TTL is going to do the sensible thing and stick with keeping Albania a compliant satellite. Looking toward the postwar years, I can see Balbo trying to arrange a marriage between Prince Leka and a member of the House of Savoy in order to further tie Albania in with Italy, the old-fashioned way.

Notwithstanding that Albania is, as a practical matter, useless to Italy, I have to think that Rome would still react violently if German-leaning Yugoslavia were to invade or even threaten Albania, as I suggested earlier. After all, it's a matter of backing up an ally...

Geekhis Khan

April 1st, 2010, 01:07 PM

Balbo scored another political and publicity coup in early November of 1938 with the successful initiation of his grandest Libyan colonization scheme yet: the Ventimila, or twenty thousand, the first of many such mass migrations to Libya and other colonies during Fascist rule [1]. Planned intricately over several years beginning during his term as Libyan governor (a position he still officially held, though de facto executive control had been passed along to subordinates) the Ventimila was an audacious plan and demonstrates fully Balbo's skill as an organizer and logistician. [...] The thousands of hand-picked settlers, mostly from Northern Italy, were delivered by specially-designated trains to Genoa for disembarkation. From there the families were loaded into ships organized by final destination. Systems of chits and cards were set up. A virtual army of cargo handlers and people handlers got everything in place with an efficiency rarely associated with Italian government ventures.

Balbo being Balbo, he was right in the midst of the chaos, shaking hands, kissing babies, and greeting families, even assuming the role of one of the handlers. "Caprono, family of four; you are going to Benghazi, yes? Welcome!" As the floatila of ships departed Genoa Balbo rode along on the first ship to leave port, a brand new diesel passenger liner aptly named the Spirito di Mussolini. The cruiser Trieste escorted the colonial armada, guns firing in salute. Three vees of S.55x flying boats, many of the planes and pilots veterans of the Atlantic flights, flew overhead.

At Tripoli Balbo held a grand, but notably solemn celebration at the Piazza del Castello. "Italy Redeems the earth and establishes cities" and "Begin your new life by vowing that you will be worthy of the spirit and memory of Mussolini," read the banners [2]. Balbo's speech, in contrast to the Fascist pomp and circumstance, was solemn. A Franciscan gave the blessing and all, reportedly at the suggestion of Balbo's mother, said the Lord's Prayer.

For the Libyans there was another spectacle: the revealing of a bronze statue of Mussolini on horseback, holding aloft the Sword of Islam, the symbol of "Italy's pledge to protect the Libyans" [3]. In a continuation of the ceremony an official of the Italian royal court, supervised by the Bishop of Tripoli and the Imam of the main Mosque of Tripoli, presented the very same sword to Balbo [4]. [...]

Balbo's time involved with the Ventimila while exhausting was an invigoration for Balbo, who'd been becoming worn out by the constant political maneuvering of the Triumvirate. For the first time since Mussolini's death he was in complete and total control of the situation, however localized. He makes note of this in his diary, swearing to "make sure all situations will be as controlled and organized as the Ventimila."

The Rome he returned to was far from this dreamed-of controlled environment. Once again foreign matters had intervened. First came Krystallnacht [and the ensuing domestic chaos]. [...] While he managed to reassert some control and organization during the protest march and prayer session, he once again found his fellow Triumvirs recalcitrant on the larger issue of German actions. Grandi, rightfully fearing war with Germany, phrased Italy's objections [to the German pogrom] in conciliatory language (Balbo's Padano was, of course, far less conciliatory in its denunciations). Farinacci was conspicuously silent and growing ever more isolated and obstructive. [...]

The political gains Balbo had made in Libya and later over the Krystallnacht incident were gaining him ground in Rome and abroad. King Victor Emanuelle invited him for lunch. It was rumored that the king took the opportunity to feel out Balbo for a higher leadership role, as the king's growing dissatisfaction with the unstable and divided nature of the Triumvirate was becoming well known in government circles. Papers in the United States and Britain spoke well of Balbo and many in the former nation's influential Jewish minority praised his efforts in the press and media. German papers, meanwhile, held an interesting dichotomy of position, on one hand praising his personal bravery and character but on the other hand criticizing his "susceptibility to Jewish manipulation." [...]

The ensuing Balkan Crisis of early 1939 caught everyone by surprise. What had begun simply as a routine cordial state visit by Grandi to Tsar Boris III of Bulgaria reignited the fuse to the old Balkan powderkeg. Romania's leaders, growing ever the more suspicious of reported secret talks between Hungary and Bulgaria and others between Hungary and Italy, began to fear an Italian-backed Hungaro-Bulgarian alliance against them. Their own secret dealings with Yugoslavia and Germany came to light in a not-so-clandestine tripartite meeting on February 14th and the ensuing mobilization of all three powers towards war. Italy, Hungary, and Bulgaria likewise mobilized, as did Albania, for its part. In turn the Soviet Union mobilized as a "precautionary measure", notably and suspiciously mobilizing mainly along the Ukranian-Bessarabian border. Turkey and Greece mobilized along the Macedonian-Thracian frontier and many in the international community were shocked to note that they were notably not mobilized towards each other. Britain and France went on high alert. The smell of war was on the winds.

From Roman Eagle, the Biography of Italo Balbo by Giuseppe Bosco, PhD., Professor of History at the University of Illinois, Chicago.

************************************************

Note a piè di pagina:

1 – The Ventimila happened OTL pretty much as described above, the main differences being less overt showmanship (no gun salutes or fly-bys) and that Mussolini made an appearance (from the deck of the Trieste and didn't mingle as Balbo did OTL and does ATL). It also happened a couple of weeks earlier in OTL and was also, notably, the last such massive spectacle OTL. Mussolini's "irritation" at Balbo's ensuing publicity led him to end any future mass-migrations in favor of smaller, less public ones. For those interested in settlement patterns, this post (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=116389) at axishistory.com has some demographic data on the overall Libyan colonization effort OTL. It will be accurate ATL up through 1938.

2 – OTL the first banner slogan quoted read "Mussolini redeems the earth and establishes cities" and the second ended with "...worthy of Mussolini."

3 – OTL "Mussolini's pledge". Seeing a pattern?

4 – Definitely not OTL!

joea64

April 1st, 2010, 01:53 PM

And so we have a cliffhanger: who will fire the first shot? It seems that World War II will actually begin earlier TTL, and Britain and France will be neutral at first (it's so confusing, I can't remember offhand who France was allied with/leaning toward/associated with - Romania? If Romania is on the aggressor side, that will put France in a nasty position, all right!) Poland's position will also be interesting, seeing that Germany, at least for the time being, is not focused on getting Danzig back. (EDIT: Damn, I just realized; Balbo is probably NOT going to have the time he might have been counting on to prepare Italy for war. It looks right now to me as if what's going to happen is that the Triumvirate is going to fly apart when the Balkans explode, with Farinacci insisting that Italy stab its allies in the back and join with Germany, and the King is going to have to step in and name a certain Air Marshal as Capo del Goberno... Which is going to leave poor Balbo in a disorganized and uncontrolled, and very vexing, situation. )

Very interesting duality in German reporting. I would have thought Der Sturmer (WILL somebody please show me how to put umlaut marks and such properly? :o ) would have been unleashed against Balbo after Kristallnacht, but it seems to me that at least some people high up in the Reich's leadership are still hoping to get Italy back on Germany's side, so they're - for the time being - treading carefully. Of course, once the cannon start booming and the planes take off, all bets are off.

I enjoyed the segment on the Ventimila. I got this funny mental image of the Marshal, beaming, wielding rubber stamp and pen with vim and vigor as he processes immigrants. :D Interesting that he's also working hard to continue ingratiating himself with Libya's Arabs, and I note that he seems to be becoming more publicly religious (cf. his enlisting of the Bishop of Ferrara in the protest march).

Hopefully, you'll be able to do something soon on the U.S. political scene at this time. I should think that there'd be an increasingly testy division in the far-right segment of the political spectrum between pro-Italian and pro-German factions, for one. I should also think that Jewish movie moguls such as MGM's Louis B. Mayer, the Warner brothers, and Columbia's Harry Cohn are going to start making pictures presenting Italy in a favorable light vis-a-vis Germany and lionizing Balbo. (Wonder whether TTL's version of "Casablanca" will have Italian agents dueling with Gestapo goons under the jaundiced eye of Rick?)

Further on, once Balbo is named Capo del Goberno, he would be well-advised to have the OVRA (the Italian secret police: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Vigilance_and_Repression_of_Anti-Fascism ) start watching Farinacci and his hangers-on. (Interesting sidenote: OTL and before the POD, the OVRA signed a cooperative protocol with the Gestapo in 1936, which I think Balbo will want to have abrogated and any pro-German types in the service cleaned out ASAP. Also, compared to the Gestapo and the NKVD, the OVRA was something of a lightweight; according to Wikipedia, they seem to only have arrested about 4,000 people, and sentenced only 10 to death in their special tribunal. Can one of the Italian board members confirm, deny or correct?)

mailinutile2

April 1st, 2010, 01:58 PM

Please remember me: how was the Fiume question solved ITTL?

Greenlanterncorps

April 1st, 2010, 02:28 PM

It's always some damn thing in the Balkans, isn't it?

Looking forward to more.

Geekhis Khan

April 1st, 2010, 03:32 PM

And so we have a cliffhanger: who will fire the first shot? It seems that World War II will actually begin earlier TTL, and Britain and France will be neutral at first (it's so confusing, I can't remember offhand who France was allied with/leaning toward/associated with - Romania? If Romania is on the aggressor side, that will put France in a nasty position, all right!) Poland's position will also be interesting, seeing that Germany, at least for the time being, is not focused on getting Danzig back. (EDIT: Damn, I just realized; Balbo is probably NOT going to have the time he might have been counting on to prepare Italy for war. It looks right now to me as if what's going to happen is that the Triumvirate is going to fly apart when the Balkans explode, with Farinacci insisting that Italy stab its allies in the back and join with Germany, and the King is going to have to step in and name a certain Air Marshal as Capo del Goberno... Which is going to leave poor Balbo in a disorganized and uncontrolled, and very vexing, situation. )

That's a possibility, for sure...

Very interesting duality in German reporting. I would have thought Der Sturmer (WILL somebody please show me how to put umlaut marks and such properly? :o ) would have been unleashed against Balbo after Kristallnacht, but it seems to me that at least some people high up in the Reich's leadership are still hoping to get Italy back on Germany's side, so they're - for the time being - treading carefully. Of course, once the cannon start booming and the planes take off, all bets are off.Pretty much. There's still hope to rekindle the Axis or at least keep Italy neutral to keep the southern flank secured. Also, there's more going on here which will come to light in the future.

I enjoyed the segment on the Ventimila. I got this funny mental image of the Marshal, beaming, wielding rubber stamp and pen with vim and vigor as he processes immigrants. :D Interesting that he's also working hard to continue ingratiating himself with Libya's Arabs, and I note that he seems to be becoming more publicly religious (cf. his enlisting of the Bishop of Ferrara in the protest march). This is all OTL, actually: Balbo's direct involvement in the Ventimila (actually reduced somewhat ATL due to his larger domestic workload than OTL), the Lord's Prayer at the welcoming ceremony, and the statue of Mussolini holding the Sword of Islam. The latter was done more in lionization of a standing Duce than as a memorial OTL.

Hopefully, you'll be able to do something soon on the U.S. political scene at this time. I should think that there'd be an increasingly testy division in the far-right segment of the political spectrum between pro-Italian and pro-German factions, for one. I should also think that Jewish movie moguls such as MGM's Louis B. Mayer, the Warner brothers, and Columbia's Harry Cohn are going to start making pictures presenting Italy in a favorable light vis-a-vis Germany and lionizing Balbo. (Wonder whether TTL's version of "Casablanca" will have Italian agents dueling with Gestapo goons under the jaundiced eye of Rick?)In the works, probably in the next "chapter".

Further on, once Balbo is named Capo del Goberno, he would be well-advised to have the OVRA (the Italian secret police: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_for_Vigilance_and_Repression_of_Anti-Fascism ) start watching Farinacci and his hangers-on. (Interesting sidenote: OTL and before the POD, the OVRA signed a cooperative protocol with the Gestapo in 1936, which I think Balbo will want to have abrogated and any pro-German types in the service cleaned out ASAP. Also, compared to the Gestapo and the NKVD, the OVRA was something of a lightweight; according to Wikipedia, they seem to only have arrested about 4,000 people, and sentenced only 10 to death in their special tribunal. Can one of the Italian board members confirm, deny or correct?)OVRA will make an appearance I can promise you.

Please remember me: how was the Fiume question solved ITTL?

It's pre-POD, so exactly as OTL. Italy annexed it in 1924 with the Treaty of Rome.

It's always some damn thing in the Balkans, isn't it?

Looking forward to more.

:D

Dathi THorfinnsson

April 1st, 2010, 04:41 PM

Very interesting duality in German reporting. I would have thought Der Sturmer (WILL somebody please show me how to put umlaut marks and such properly? :o )
1) it is perfectly legal to turn the umlauts back into e's, so "Stuermer"
2) if you are using Windows, install US International keyboard and when you choose to use it, "+a becomes ä, for instance, similarly for other accents like `^' and ~.
3) (WIndows again) if you can remember the appropriate ASCII codes alt+number (on the number pad) gives you various letters é is alt+130, for instance.
4a) (Windows yet again) go to Start, Acessories, [System Tools,] Character Map, pick the character you want

mailinutile2

April 1st, 2010, 04:47 PM

1) it is perfectly legal to turn the umlauts back into e's, so "Stuermer"
2) if you are using Windows, install US International keyboard and when you choose to use it, "+a becomes ä, for instance, similarly for other accents like `^' and ~.
3) (WIndows again) if you can remember the appropriate ASCII codes alt+number (on the number pad) gives you various letters é is alt+130, for instance.
4a) (Windows yet again) go to Start, Acessories, [System Tools,] Character Map, pick the character you want

:D It is against common sense to put two dots up there, since they will surely roll down along the "u" slope :D

joea64

April 1st, 2010, 05:45 PM

As far as the Italian propaganda/PR effort in the U.S. goes (and this relates to what I was talking about re: Hollywood earlier today), I know the perfect person to spearhead the effort: Isa Miranda, whom I spoke of last month. At this point, she's in Hollywood, under contract to Paramount Pictures (run by Adolph Zukor), which, BTW, is at this time also the employer of Balbo's American favorite Mae West. OTL, Miranda's Hollywood career wasn't terribly successful, but let's suppose that, due to more pro-Italian attitudes on the part of Hollywood bigwigs, she gets better roles. OTL she returned to Italy soon after war broke out, but TTL I suggest that she might be asked by the Italian government (perhaps Balbo himself, who as Triumvir in control of domestic affairs presumably has the film industry in his portfolio) to remain in America and help promote a positive image of Italy, and get favorable portrayals of Italy and the Fascist regime produced in American cinema.

joea64

April 1st, 2010, 05:47 PM

1) it is perfectly legal to turn the umlauts back into e's, so "Stuermer"
2) if you are using Windows, install US International keyboard and when you choose to use it, "+a becomes ä, for instance, similarly for other accents like `^' and ~.
3) (WIndows again) if you can remember the appropriate ASCII codes alt+number (on the number pad) gives you various letters é is alt+130, for instance.
4a) (Windows yet again) go to Start, Acessories, [System Tools,] Character Map, pick the character you want

Thanks! I think I'll print that out when I get home. I was getting so tired of having to cut and paste everytime I needed to reproduce a special character.

Geekhis Khan

April 1st, 2010, 06:31 PM

joea64

April 1st, 2010, 06:49 PM

[QUOTE=Geekhis Khan;3226426]Not a bad idea...I'll have to steal that one fair & square. :)
[QUOTE]

How do you yell in Italian, "Stop, thief, or I'll call the OVRA on you!"? :D Go right ahead, glad to be of help (again!) You know what's really funny? Look at Isa Miranda's pictures via Google search sometime. She's blonde and pink, the very image of an Aryan maiden - except that she's Mediterranean. I imagine Hollywood could have a lot of fun with that. (Not to mention a potential rivalry with Marlene Dietrich for European femme-fatale roles - Dietrich was also signed to Paramount!)

Jimbrock

April 1st, 2010, 07:13 PM

The tension grows... will this be a localised war, or WWII starting early?

joea64

April 3rd, 2010, 02:10 AM

For a lighter note, you might mention Tsar Boris of Bulgaria's, er, GREAT love of trains. He was so obsessed with locomotives that he was even reported to have hijacked the renowned Orient Express on its Bulgarian leg and taken the controls himself, driving the luxury train at terrifying speeds. I have this funny image of Boris taking the Duce (Balbo) for a ride as he rushes supplies to the Allied forces on the North Italian front... :D

mailinutile2

April 3rd, 2010, 01:47 PM

[QUOTE=joea64;3226482]How do you yell in Italian, "Stop, thief, or I'll call the OVRA on you!"? :D [QUOTE]

You do not yell it.
OVRA is a secret political police and believe me, you do not want to have anything to do with it.
You go to the Carabinieri, instead, talk to the officer, compile your denounce module, and then while going out of the office you hear a faint noise of a sheet of paper being ripped :D

Geekhis Khan

April 6th, 2010, 12:54 PM

An emergency meeting of the Fascist Grand Council was called on the 13th of February to discus the looming crisis in the Balkans. In attendance were not only the Council members themselves but the king and the military's top marshals, admirals, and generals. The mood in the room was one of shock and disbelief. None could believe how fast the situation had degenerated in the wake of what Italy had considered a minor diplomatic courtesy to a potential partner.

The first order of business was an intelligence assessment given by SIM [1] chief Mario Roatta. The situation was dire: The German army had mobilized with frightening speed. The Eighth and Fourteenth Armies had deployed along the Austro-Italian border with armored divisions reportedly already amassing a schwerpunkt across the Brenner Pass before the bulk of the Esercito had even reached base camps in the alps. The Aeronatica was still in transit while while the Luftwaffe was in position at forward bases and conducting reconnaissance flyovers at the border. At the moment only the Alpini divisions were in place to defend the frontier from invasion. Meanwhile the Fourth Army had deployed south for a drive into Hungary or move into Yugoslavia. The French navy had scrambled and reports were coming in that the French Army was in the early stages of mobilization. By General Roatta's assessment unless the frontier fortifications held until the armed forces could deploy an immediate attack by the Germans could prove catastrophic "to a Caporetto degree".

Marshal De Bono immediately demanded that Marshal Badoglio explain why the nation's military had been caught so flatfooted. Badoglio in turn blamed everyone from his subordinate generals to party meddling to lack of government support to inadequate transportation resources for the slow deployment, yet he also defended the military's readiness and spoke confidently that the Germans would "regret" crossing into Italy. He immediately pointed out the Italian numerical superiority, spoke confidently of the field fortifications, and predicted "another Vittorio Veneto" to follow with the inevitable Italian counterattack. Marshal Cavaglio, however, was far less charitable, systematically attacking all of Badoglio's points. The apparent numerical superiority was "illusory" as they were understrength in weapons, not sufficiently mechanized or even motorized, and reliant on older artillery. He cited a report by General Federico Baistrocchi lamenting the army's lack of modern and sufficient armor and anti-tank weaponry and the vulnerability of Italian tanks as witnessed in Spain. Badoglio responded angrily to Cavaglio's accusations and the king himself had to call order to the room. [...]

The military issue was tabled and the floor opened for discussion on how Italy would respond to the war crisis militarily or diplomatically. Farinacci immediately used the opportunity to lambaste his political rivals for letting such a situation happen. He cited the excellent work Mussolini and Ciano had done in making Germany an ally rather than an enemy. He bitterly placed all blame at the feet of Grandi's and Balbo's "reckless diplomacy and political maneuvering". Grandi rebutted angrily, calling out Farinacci on his lack of experience in the area, provincialism, and flagrant admiration for the German "barbarians". Balbo was notably quiet, adding only requests for clarification or detail from his fellow triumvir. Sensing advantage and his rivals' apparent weakness, Farinacci pressed his assault. He pontificated about the necessity for unity and order, the necessity for a new leader and man of vision, and the failure of "old aristocratic and bourgeois institutions" to handle the new age. Balbo again prompted for clarification. Farinacci blamed the factory-holding elites, the banks, and the land-holders and spoke of the "new, Fascist way" that must be implemented. More prompts from Balbo drove Farinacci on and soon he was berating "Jewish" influences and "the old elites", praising the work of the Germans and urging an end to the "unnatural conflict between Fascists" and a renewal of the Axis pact. His attacks soon included Senators, barons, and the "whole antiquated Savoian system". "Even the king?" asked Balbo, aghast. "Yes, damn it!" Farinacci replied.

It was perhaps at that moment that Farinacci realized he had overstretched his political supply lines. He began to try an salvage the situation and redirect the conversation, or at least mediate his harsh words with qualifiers, but to no good. Balbo, who had been so uncharacteristically silent before, now rose to the moment. He read off a list of "German evils" for which "the illustrious chairman" had publicly or privately expressed admiration. He cited Farinacci's continued questionable loyalty to the crown and nation, his "crippling devotion" to German National Socialism, and his continued obstructionism and corruption within the triumvirate structure. As a final measure he called again upon General Roatta and also upon [Chief of the OVRA [2] Arturo] Bocchini. The two in turn presented the council with evidence of Farinacci's personal meetings with the German ambassador, which under the triumvirate structure should have been the purview of Grandi, and evidence that his personal financial holdings had increased notably over the last several months. While there was no hard evidence linking Farinacci to any wrongdoing, the circumstantial evidence was damning enough. Farinacci sputtered and foamed and denied any wrongdoing, instead accusing Balbo of slander and lies. In a haze of anger Farinacci threatened to resign from the Grand Council and take the "will of the party and people" with him. He was left silent and dumbfounded when the king quickly and calmly accepted the resignation. Farinacci stormed out of the room.

After several uncomfortably quiet moments Balbo stood again and asked the king if they should continue the discussion over the Balkan crisis. The king gave his approval and a calm and orderly discussion followed. While opinions on the ability of the military to defend against the Germans varied, all were in agreement that the ability to counter the Gremans and French combined was highly questionable. The growing opinion was that risking war at this moment was a dangerous gamble, particularly over "Slavic wilderness" (Transylvania). The only prize to be had was Dalmatia, and war with Yugoslavia could bring in the feared French involvement.

After hours of deliberation the consensus swung towards finding a diplomatic solution, if possible. Preferably without overtly backing down in apparent weakness. The big question remained, however, what the other nations would do. Germany might well initiate hostilities, as might any of the Balkan nations. Even one panicky soldier on any of the tense borders could set off war.

The meeting was interrupted at this point by a knocking on the door. A page entered with a memo, which he carried straight to Grandi. "Forgive the interruption, sirs, Your Majesty," said the page, bowing, "But there is an important message involving the Balkan situation."

From Roman Eagle, the Biography of Italo Balbo by Giuseppe Bosco, PhD., Professor of History at the University of Illinois, Chicago.

************************************************

Note a piè di pagina:

1 – Servizio Informazioni Militare, the Italian Military Intelligence Service.

2 – Organizzazione per la Vigilanza e la Repressione dell'Antifascismo, the "Organization of Vigilance and the Repression of Anti-Fascism", a.k.a. the Fascist Secret Police.

mailinutile2

April 6th, 2010, 01:01 PM

1 – Servizio Informazioni Militare, the .
I think it should be SISMI

Organizzazione per la Vigilanza e la Repressione dell'Antifascismo, the "Organization of Vigilance and the Repression of Anti-Fascism", a.k.a. the Fascist Secret Police.
Actually no one know exactly what O.V.R.A. means.
the definition you report is one of the most plausable one, but there are others too, including one (hilarity ensues) regarding a mistype.
On the other hand, being a secret police, a bit of mystery was a bonus, and "OVRA" had a properly omnious frightengly sound

Geekhis Khan

April 6th, 2010, 01:10 PM

I think it should be SISMI

Most English language sources use SIM, though SISMI is probably more accurate. What's it stand for?

Actually no one know exactly what O.V.R.A. means.
the definition you report is one of the most plausable one, but there are others too, including one (hilarity ensues) regarding a mistype.
On the other hand, being a secret police, a bit of mystery was a bonus, and "OVRA" had a properly omnious frightengly sound

Interesting to know, thanks. I've always heard the one I gave, but yea, secret police, so who really knows.

mailinutile2

April 6th, 2010, 01:16 PM

Most English language sources use SIM, though SISMI is probably more accurate. What's it stand for?

I think Servizio di Informazioni Segreto MIlitare, but I'm not 100% sure of it.
however, that's what today italian military information service is called

Geekhis Khan

April 6th, 2010, 01:27 PM

I think Servizio di Informazioni Segreto MIlitare, but I'm not 100% sure of it.
however, that's what today italian military information service is called

Ok, there's the difference: SIM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servizio_Informazioni_Militari)was the service from 1900 through WWII while SISMI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sismi) was the modern intel service from 1977-2007 (now AISE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenzia_Informazioni_e_Sicurezza_Esterna)).

mailinutile2

April 6th, 2010, 01:43 PM

Ok, there's the difference: SIM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servizio_Informazioni_Militari)was the service from 1900 through WWII while SISMI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sismi) was the modern intel service from 1977-2007 (now AISE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenzia_Informazioni_e_Sicurezza_Esterna)).

Wow, here in italy people is still calling it with its old name
It is really good at keeping secrets :D

joea64

April 6th, 2010, 01:48 PM

So Farinacci and Balbo finally have it out, and the "Cowardly Wolf" is out of government on his ear. Mmmm. I think some of the Grand Council members may end up wishing that they'd kept Farinacci where they could keep an eye on him... :rolleyes:

Nice political maneuvering on the Marshal's part. :D I believe it's technically known as "giving him enough rope to hang himself", provoking your opponent into letting his big fat mouth run away with him. Are there any senior Fascist Party members who are also, being aristocrats, members of the "antiquated Savoian system" that Farinacci so unwisely denounced? A number of quite prominent German noblemen joined the Nazi Party, you know, and I'd be surprised if it weren't the same in Italy, particularly with Balbo's friendships with Roman aristocrats.

It's quite a twist, having Nazi Germany and France gang up on Italy, though I'd imagine the French government is trying to hold Berlin off as gingerly as possible, it being strictly an alliance of convenience for them. (Then again, there WERE a fair number of French bigwigs OTL who had no trouble cozying up to the Reich after the Fall of France - I'm looking at YOU, Pierre Laval! - and I imagine some of them are hard at work right now urging closer French cooperation with Germany beyond the immediate crisis...)

I wonder what the urgent message is. My own bet is that two of the Balkan parties have started going at each other on their own - but the question is, which parties?

mailinutile2

April 6th, 2010, 01:54 PM

Are there any senior Fascist Party members who are also, being aristocrats, members of the "antiquated Savoian system" that Farinacci so unwisely denounced?

The most prominent decoration of sabaudian Italy was the Collare dell'Annunziata.
The ones getting it, become by law "cousins of the king"
Mussolini got one, and I think also Ciano (but I'm not 100% sure of it).
Thus technically farinacci was insulting a couple of heroes, too.

joea64

April 6th, 2010, 02:05 PM

The most prominent decoration of sabaudian Italy was the Collare dell'Annunziata.
The ones getting it, become by law "cousins of the king"
Mussolini got one, and I think also Ciano (but I'm not 100% sure of it).
Thus technically farinacci was insulting a couple of heroes, too.

And also, by implication, insulting the late Duce - though Farinacci may well not have been aware of it, in his high dudgeon - by implying that Mussolini had done unwisely in allowing the King to retain his throne and the arisocrats to retain their titles and privileges.

mailinutile2

April 6th, 2010, 02:11 PM

joea64

April 6th, 2010, 02:23 PM

joea64

April 6th, 2010, 03:00 PM

On a different topic: I agree with the Grand Council's consensus that Italy probably can't hold against a combined German/French assault. However, I think Italy might be able to stop a single-front German invasion, though maybe not until the Wehrmacht got into the Tuscan mountains. Much of the Italian peninsula is, like Korea, highly unsuitable to armored operations (though I think there's a good deal of open flat - more or less - space in the northeast, yes?) OTL, the Western Allies had a horrible time going up the Italian peninsula, even with amphibious landings at Salerno and Anzio to outflank the Germans, and this was in a situation where Italy had essentially switched sides; it wasn't until April of 1945 that Allied forces got as far as Venice and Milan, IIRC. Here, the Italians are sure to fight fiercely in defense of their Patria against the hated old German enemy, though not without some very significant reverses at first (the blitzkrieg is going to tear up the Italians in the northeast, I'm afraid).

I expect that Marshal Badoglio, though, is going to have to start seeing about getting his retirement papers in order.

mailinutile2

April 6th, 2010, 03:05 PM

joea64

April 6th, 2010, 03:13 PM

More or less
Only, that would mean losing the most important industrial region of italy

A calculation which I expect held a prominent and grim place in the Grand Council's deliberations. This is why Italy needs, above all other things, time - time to stockpile, time to prepare, and I think the Council was taking the right decision. Unfortunately, whatever's just happened in the Balkans may have removed that option.

That being the case, what Italy needs to do is to open contacts right away with Great Britain, and most especially, the United States, to get the wherewithal to continue the fight. How is Italy's foreign exchange balance at this point? OTL Great Britain was pretty much broke by early 1941 and that was a key factor in Lend-Lease's institution, and Great Britain was, next to the U.S., just about the richest country in the world. Italy probably doesn't have that much in the way of a financial cushion.

Therefore, an effective Italian PR/propaganda effort in the United States is going to be of the utmost importance. If Balbo's wise, he'll start working his network right now to touch base with his own American contacts and get his friends who have U.S. links of their own. Balbo and the U.S. ambassador, Breckenridge Long, are friends; he'll have to be careful, though, in order to avoid getting hit with his own charges of meddling in foreign affairs. He may not have to wait long, though.

Geekhis Khan

April 6th, 2010, 03:54 PM

On the other hand, If I am allowed to make a very slight criticism, Balbo was known for being almost a revolutionary: irruent, quite wide-mouthed, and not-at-all-pro-monarchy: such a machiavellian behaviour is not much in character.
But it is very interesting, nevertheless: go on, Geekhis!

Perhaps Balbo was counseled ahead of time by his allies to play it cool and cagey and let Farinacci trip himself up with his big mouth. :D Geekhis does note that Balbo's quiet behavior at the council meeting was remarkable, which should have - if Farinacci had been paying attention - given him a clue that something was going on. When somebody who's known for shooting off his mouth keeps it shut, you'd better watch that guy!

Balbo has grown quite a lot in the past few years since his "exile". Even OTL he learned to tread more lightly than he had before exile. Witness OTL his much more politic opposition to the antisemitism laws than his earlier more heavy-handed attempts to take over the armed forces. Note also even before his exile, despite his Republican past, he had reconciled with the monarchy and the king himself urged Balbo to take the Libyan assignment with grace rather than resign, noting it as [paraphrasing] "a good leadership experience before higher office". ATL the monarchy became one of his semi-allies against the more screamingly radical Farinacci. OTL through his Libyan experience and ATL through his triumvir experience he has learned to better control his actions and learned valuable lessons on politics.

Also note how readily the SIM and OVRA were to combine their data on Farinacci in support of Balbo. And how quickly Farinacci's resignation was accepted by the normally quite hesitant king.

mailinutile2

April 6th, 2010, 04:04 PM

Also note how readily the SIM and OVRA were to combine their data on Farinacci in support of Balbo. And how quickly Farinacci's resignation was accepted by the normally quite hesitant king.

:D Machiavellic :D

joea64

April 6th, 2010, 04:07 PM

:D Machiavellic :D

I will bet you anything you care to name that the problem of Farinacci, and how to solve it, was one of the subjects of the table talk between Balbo and the King during that famous lunch.

Also: obviously, the Triumvirate is no more. I would bet, again, that the King is soon going to call in Marshal De Bono for a long, heart-to-heart talk, after which the Marshal will, as gracefully as possible under the circumstances, step down, and then...here we go!

Whanztastic

April 6th, 2010, 04:36 PM

Damn you cliff hanger! If I had to guess, I say something is happening analogous to the 914 Christmas truce - the Italian, Yugoslavian, and German troops decided to start exchanging Valentines with each other. :D

Jimbrock

April 6th, 2010, 06:02 PM

Ooh, dramatic ending. I love those "Or else I leave!" "Fine, leave" moments.:p

Geekhis Khan

April 8th, 2010, 02:29 PM

February of 1939 has gone down in history as [Nevil] Chamberlain's finest, and saddest hour. Like King Cnut ordering back the sea, The Great Peacemaker, as Chamberlain became known, could only hold back the tides of war for so long.

The dawn of 1939 saw renewed troubles in the Balkans once again driving Europe towards war. Italian support for Bulgaria and Hungary, ostensibly against Romania and Yugoslavia, brought German support of the latter nations and a looming war crisis. Armies had begun mobilization and even the smallest of pretense could have seen a war that might have dragged the French, Soviets, or possibly even the British into its maw. Into this looming battleground strode the unassuming form of Chamberlain. Vowing once again to have "peace in our time" he personally contacted the leaders of all the nations including both the German and Italian governments, famously interrupting the latter during their war deliberations. He offered London's services as mediators and offered to host peace talks at the seaside resort town of Torquay in Southwest England.

The first to respond, surprisingly, was Germany. For all of Hitler's now famous warmongering and thirst for conflict he had no desire for a war in the Balkans against an Italian Fascist state he still admired. Documents discovered after the fall of Berlin describe deliberations within the Nazi government wherein victory against the large and presumed formidable Italian military could not be promised (recall that this was the untested raw Wehrmacht, not the formidable, seemingly unstoppable force of a year afterwards). Hitler's eyes, still looking east towards promises of lebensraum, balked at both the distraction of a Balkan war and the strategic uncertainty of defeating the "Bolshevik Hordes" within the narrow confines of a Bessarabian front. OKH could not assure him that the Italian and Hungarian armies could be subdued before the Soviets overran Romania and her vital oil fields and the untested but theoretically devastating Blitzkkrieg tactics could not be assured to be successful in the mountainous Alpine frontier, especially in the unpredictable weather of the late winter/early spring.

Italy, itself utterly unprepared for war despite its military's size and public facade, likewise agreed to the talks. Grandi had essentially stumbled into the war crisis by vastly underestimating the tensions between the Balkan nations much as Mussolini had overestimated his ability to unite all of Yugoslavia's neighbors against her a decade earlier. [...] The ultimate source of the crisis was Greater Romania's instability in the face of irredentist claims by her neighbors exacerbated by the dominant National Renaissance Front's political insecurity. Literally the assumption of an Italian-backed Hungaro-Bulgarian front against her was enough to elicit Romania's mobilization and the corresponding domino mobilizations of the other nations in the region. [...]

The Torquay Talks began in late February and the relatively mild climate of the resort town (warm in comparison to the rest of Northern Europe for February) may have helped set a more amicable mood. In attendance were Hitler and von Ribbentrop (Germany), King Victor Emmanuel, Grandi and Balbo (Italy), PM Daladier (France), King Carol II and PM Călinescu (Romania), Regent Miklós Horthy and PM Béla Imrédy (Hungary), Tsar Boris III and PM Kyoseivanov (Bulgaria), King Zog (Albania), and Prince Paul and PM Stojadinović [1] (Yugoslavia) in addition to King George and PM Chamberlain as host dignitaries. A controversial late addition was Minister Molotov of the Soviet Union. [...]

The talks continued for days and deliberations nearly broke down several times. [...] Once again Germany would ironically prove the harbinger of peace when von Ribbentrop suggested the partition of Transylvania to appease Hungarian claims. In return Hungary would agree to allow open German commercial transit to and from Romania. This virtual sell-out of her small ally would severely strain Germano-Romanian relations, but in the end Romania, beset on all sides and without a Great Power sponsor, would fold to nearly all demands. Once Călinescu reluctantly agreed to cede the northern half of Transylvania to Hungary the flood gates were opened. In the end Călinescu had no other recourse but to cede Dobrudja back to Bulgaria and most controversially Bessarabia to the Soviet Union [2]. Population exchanges would be made appropriately to redistribute the demographics in the exchanged regions. As talks continued minor allowances were made elsewhere, such as Yugoslavia's acquiescence to later talks with Bulgaria over the rights of Macedonians and an agreement with Italy to allow Croats and Kosovar Albanians more internal autonomy [3]. Additional details on trade agreements, transit rights, and national recognition followed as part of the fine tuning of what became the Treaty of Torquay, signed on March 3rd, 1939. Chamberlain, hailed internationally for his efforts, would receive the 1939 Nobel Peace Prize [4] and become renown as a peacemaker. [...]

The Treaty of Torquay would have major implications politically as well as internationally for many nations. The first and perhaps most predictable change was the fall of the Romanian National Renaissance Front government and rise of the Antonescu government [5]. The nationalist backlash at this "betrayal" and fall of Greater Romania would inflame public opinion and empower the Authori-Collectivist Iron Guard, leaving King Carol little other choice than to call upon his rival Antonescu. In Yugoslavia the "necessities of internal accord" would give Prince Paul the excuse he needed to replace Stojadinović with the more amenable Dragiša Cvetković later that month.

Predictably, the governments of Hungary and Bulgaria would receive a massive popular boost at home. Also predictably the Balkan diplomatic situation, which had begun to coalesce into two blocs, was again thrown into chaos. German "betrayal" of Romania pushed it into secret talks with Britain and Italy while Hungary began once again to warm to Germany.

The greatest internal political change, however, came in Italy. The internal politics of the war scare had shaken the king's and army's fading confidence in Chairman Farinacci, whose threatened resignation was promptly accepted. The resultant power vacuum was immediately filled (with tacit royal acquiescence) by rising star Marshal Balbo, who's position as Domestic Minister was elevated and empowered to the new title of Executive Minister, a "vice chief" position historian Claudio Genovera dubbed "Duce in all but name". While officially still subordinate to Capo del Governo De Bono, in reality all executive control over the running of the country was effectively in Balbo's hands.

Furthermore, the growing freeze between Germany and Italy began to thaw as Balbo and Hitler came to terms over a number of international (primarily anti-Soviet) issues, though they still had severe ideological differences particularly over the "Jewish question". [...] Grandi and von Ribbentrop would thereafter begin a set of secret correspondences that British Intelligence feared might signal an eventual renewal of the Axis.

From Warriors, Diplomats, Statesmen, Dictators – the Political and Diplomatic History of Europe in the Twentieth Century, by Dr. Eric Spellman, Harvard University, 1994

************************************************

Note a piè di pagina:

1 – The looming war crisis has forced Prince Paul to keep Milan Stojadinović on as PM (at least for the moment). OTL he had him replaced by Dragiša Cvetković in early February due to Stojadinović's failure to subdue Croat nationalism. ATL it comes later (in this post, actually).

2 – This is essentially what happened to Romania OTL in 1940 following the post-Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty of Craiova except that here Romania has kept Northern Bukovina (ceded to the USSR with Bessarabia OTL).

3 – The Croat regional autonomy will happen as OTL, but ATL a similar deal is eventually worked out with Macedonians and Kosovar Albanians. This would see the foundations for a potential Federalized union of national states that, alas, would never come into being.

4 – OTL none was awarded in 1939...for obvious reasons. Unlike OTL's poor reputation as a naive fool and dupe, ATL Chamberlain will be remembered as a skilled diplomat and man of peace and good will, though "even he" couldn't contain a mad dog like Hitler.

5 – Months ahead of OTL and for the equivalent reason after Craiova.

Shadow Knight

April 8th, 2010, 03:01 PM

Jimbrock

April 8th, 2010, 03:05 PM

Aww, what an anticlimax. :(

joea64

April 8th, 2010, 03:36 PM

Hmmmm. I was expecting the guns to start booming, and along comes Chamberlain with a compromise that actually seems to have pushed the beginning of WWII back to AFTER its OTL start point. Then again, we haven't gotten to the takeover of rump-Czechoslovakia yet, nor to the fatal crisis over Danzig, so who knows? Imagine my surprise at Balkan alignments being thrown into chaos yet AGAIN as a result of the Treaty of Torquay. :D

Interesting that Balbo and Hitler actually seem to have reached a modus vivendi on several points, though I'd expect - as you stated - the foci of their agreement to be mainly centered around opposition to the Soviets. I wonder if Hitler, seeing how Balbo is rapidly becoming the most powerful figure in Italy, is hoping to woo the Marshal away from his philo-Semitism and into the embrace of the Reich. I don't think the Germano-Italian rapprochement is going to last very long, though.

I see Balbo is now in position to assume the title of Capo del Governo at the appropriate time, though for all intents and purposes he's now in charge. How long will it be before he figures out how to gracefully ease Marshal De Bono out with a suitable golden parachute?

Geekhis Khan

April 8th, 2010, 03:43 PM

A very interesting update GK.

I'm curious about what Italy can do about there armed forces though to improve. From what I understand, and I could be wrong, but didn't Italy just finish a massive rearming in the early 30's? Ahead of the rest of Europe, but now in the rapidly changing technologies/doctrines starting to fall behind. So my question is can they afford to do so at all?

Sure getting so they can mobilze faster, etc. would be doable, but the other goods of war I'm not sure they can afford in the numbers that'd make a difference.

All this will be covered, don't you worry.

Aww, what an anticlimax. :(

Hmmmm. I was expecting the guns to start booming, and along comes Chamberlain with a compromise that actually seems to have pushed the beginning of WWII back to AFTER its OTL start point. Then again, we haven't gotten to the takeover of rump-Czechoslovakia yet, nor to the fatal crisis over Danzig, so who knows? Imagine my surprise at Balkan alignments being thrown into chaos yet AGAIN as a result of the Treaty of Torquay. :D

Sorry, Jim, but that's Hollywood for ya'. :cool:

Take a note of what day I posted the looming war scare, too! ;)

Don't worry, your bloodlust will be sated soon enough! :p

The truth is neither faction had a real vested interest in war over "some Balkan thing". Other than Hitler's notorious temper or some itchy trigger finger situation there was no viable reason why either side would press for war. Hitler's eyes are on the Poles and Soviets and while this would give them war with the Reds, it would be in a disadvantageous strategic and logistical situation and the OKW would be very vested in convincing Hitler it wasn't the time.

On Italy, they know all too well they were disadvantaged, particularly if France got caught up.

To be honest...I didn't see the whole Balkan thing coming either! :eek: :o I originally intended to just do a quick writeup on Balkan politics for the sake of future developments and was surprised myself when things aligned the way they did. When I looked into it further I realized that war wasn't likely for the reasons mentioned above, but a showdown certainly was.

Besides, it gave a nice dramatic turn for Balbo's ascendancy. :D

maverick

April 8th, 2010, 03:46 PM

Random Question: has Spain progressed as IOTL despite the Italo-German split?

Then again, It's not like the Condor Legion or the Voluntary Corps won the war by themselves...

kenmac

April 8th, 2010, 03:49 PM

It would be good to see a time line like this but with Roberto Feranacci as Il Duce.
We may well see a more modern and radical Italy enter the war in 1940.
An Italy that goes along with Hitlers demands and fights the war in a German way by German styles of warfare.
Which means we would likely see the fall of Malta and the invasion of Egypt in May 1940.
With maybe smaller distraction attacks on Tunisia and the French Alps to assist the German attack on France.

joea64

April 8th, 2010, 04:07 PM

I should expect that the first thing the Marshal will be doing, or one of the first things, anyway, is to call for an urgent, in-depth review of Italy's military preparedness (beyond what was already discussed at the Grand Council) to see what, if anything, can be redressed and improved in the limited time remaining. OTL, Britain had already started rearming, though in a half-assed fashion, in the late 1930's, but this kicked into top gear after Hitler gobbled up what was left of Czechoslovakia. I'd expect something similar to happen here, in both GB and Italy. Question is; will Balbo try to go for radically improving Italian armaments, or opt for building more of what's already there, particularly if it's any good?

DuQuense

April 8th, 2010, 04:14 PM

German "betrayal" of Romania pushed it into secret talks with Britain and Italy Italy is going to need a stable source of Petrol.

IIRC - in 1938 Italy had one of the worlds Front line Fighters. However It stuck with it, [political reasons involving factory owners]
while UK, France and Germany, spend the next years Modifying, Updating, and Replacing their planes.
There were the same problems [costs of retooling, vested instersts, etc] plaguing the other two branches as well.

Perhaps Balbo can use his new clout to knock a few heads.

Geekhis Khan

April 8th, 2010, 05:22 PM

Random Question: has Spain progressed as IOTL despite the Italo-German split?

Then again, It's not like the Condor Legion or the Voluntary Corps won the war by themselves...

It's going pretty much as OTL, though not as quickly for Franco. Only a couple years have passed since the POD. Germany is still fully supporting Condor while Italy was too caught up in internal squabbles to call back its small "volunteer" force, though it hasn't escalated the contingent. Since Italy still has a vested interest in Franco's success it continues its support.

Note that rivalry and fights between German and Italian forces are on the rise, though.

Jimbrock

April 8th, 2010, 05:26 PM

Sorry, Jim, but that's Hollywood for ya'. :cool:

Take a note of what day I posted the looming war scare, too! ;)

Don't worry, your bloodlust will be sated soon enough! :p

The truth is neither faction had a real vested interest in war over "some Balkan thing". Other than Hitler's notorious temper or some itchy trigger finger situation there was no viable reason why either side would press for war. Hitler's eyes are on the Poles and Soviets and while this would give them war with the Reds, it would be in a disadvantageous strategic and logistical situation and the OKW would be very vested in convincing Hitler it wasn't the time.

On Italy, they know all too well they were disadvantaged, particularly if France got caught up.

To be honest...I didn't see the whole Balkan thing coming either! :eek: :o I originally intended to just do a quick writeup on Balkan politics for the sake of future developments and was surprised myself when things aligned the way they did. When I looked into it further I realized that war wasn't likely for the reasons mentioned above, but a showdown certainly was.

Besides, it gave a nice dramatic turn for Balbo's ascendancy. :D
Well, looking at your points, this does seem like the best course of action. In fact, that extra dramatic road to nowhere actually makes the TL more pleasurable and more like a novel with a plot and climaxes, and anticlimaxes too. Very good.:p

037771

April 8th, 2010, 07:05 PM

Compelling timeline GK! :cool:

The thought of Hitler visiting Torquay of all places though...well thats just chilling...

Blair152

April 8th, 2010, 07:29 PM

You're aware that Italo Balbo died in plane crash in Libya aren't you?

joea64

April 8th, 2010, 07:37 PM

You're aware that Italo Balbo died in plane crash in Libya aren't you?

Um.... :confused::confused::confused:

This is an alternate history based on the proposition that Balbo never died in that plane crash. I assure you the author of this TL knows that fact very well.

*sigh*

B_Munro

April 8th, 2010, 09:48 PM

Germaniac

April 8th, 2010, 10:22 PM

joea64

April 8th, 2010, 11:18 PM

Assuming Franco takes over Spain how will Franco-Balbo work together. Balbo will, likely, be a much more palatable partner than Hitler or war-time Mussolini.
I guess what my question is will Franco's Spain be a close or somewhat distant friend of Balbo's Italy.

I think it's already been asked and answered by Geekhis; Spain will stay out of the war as OTL, and will play coy with both Germany and Italy as both Authori-Collectivist powers try to woo it onto their side.

mrmandias

April 8th, 2010, 11:24 PM

You're aware that Italo Balbo died in plane crash in Libya aren't you?

For today's spiritual exercise, young chela, meditate on the name of this website.

lounge60

April 9th, 2010, 02:55 AM

More Balbo pictures.

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/866/italobalbo1.jpg

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4235/italobalbo.jpg

Whanztastic

April 9th, 2010, 03:07 AM

More Balbo pictures.

Is it just me or does he look skeptical with a touch of surprised disgust?

lounge60

April 9th, 2010, 03:09 AM

Maybe he think about Mussolini.

joea64

April 9th, 2010, 05:07 AM

Or he could be eyeing Hitler at Torquay. :D (He's dressed for England in February, it seems.)

Germaniac

April 9th, 2010, 05:47 AM

I meant post war

mailinutile2

April 9th, 2010, 06:03 AM

Geekhis, why not to take a pause from the foreign politics and give an image of the corporative economic system?
I would be interested
And introducing some suspence on the action is a shrewd writer technique :D

RPW@Cy

April 9th, 2010, 11:33 AM

More Balbo pictures.

Okay, something that's been bugging me for a long time - am I the only one who's been looking at all these Balbo pictures (not so much these two perhaps, but certainly some of the earlier ones) and thinking he looks a heck of a lot like Lenin?:eek: Have the two of them ever been pictured in the same room together?? There are after all all those rumours that the body in Red Square is a waxwork...

(Amazing TL BTW - never thought Fascist Italy could produce such an interesting ATL.)

mailinutile2

April 9th, 2010, 12:08 PM

Okay, something that's been bugging me for a long time - am I the only one who's been looking at all these Balbo pictures (not so much these two perhaps, but certainly some of the earlier ones) and thinking he looks a heck of a lot like Lenin?:eek: Have the two of them ever been pictured in the same room together?? There are after all all those rumours that the body in Red Square is a waxwork...

(Amazing TL BTW - never thought Fascist Italy could produce such an interesting ATL.)

Don't give Geekhis ideas
If the corpse of Balbo ends in the Red Square Mausuleum I will REALLY get angry.
or maybe not :D

joea64

April 9th, 2010, 12:32 PM

Don't give Geekhis ideas
If the corpse of Balbo ends in the Red Square Mausuleum I will REALLY get angry.
or maybe not :D

I kind of think the Marshal, as healthy an ego as he had, would object to having his embalmed corpse put on display for the masses to gawk at.

Besides, he still had all his hair at the time in question. :D

Geekhis Khan

April 12th, 2010, 12:52 PM

Compelling timeline GK! :cool:

The thought of Hitler visiting Torquay of all places though...well thats just chilling...

Thanks! And welcome! :)

Yep. Hitler in Torquay. Insert John Cleese sketch here.

(And I never mentioned what hotel he stayed at either, did I? :D)

Geekhis, why not to take a pause from the foreign politics and give an image of the corporative economic system?

There will be an update, specifically on Balbo's changes to Fascist corporatism, in the near future plus a few more as the TL progresses and the system evolves. In the mean time if you look back through some of the earlier stuff there's some stuff on the corporative system, theory and how it happened in execution.

Okay, something that's been bugging me for a long time - am I the only one who's been looking at all these Balbo pictures (not so much these two perhaps, but certainly some of the earlier ones) and thinking he looks a heck of a lot like Lenin?:eek: Have the two of them ever been pictured in the same room together?? There are after all all those rumours that the body in Red Square is a waxwork...

LOL, he's a bit bigger than Lenin and rounder in the face, but I can see what you mean.

(Amazing TL BTW - never thought Fascist Italy could produce such an interesting ATL.)

Thanks! :)

I'm actually finding Fascist Italy far more interesting than Nazi Germany as I continue the research. It's more complex and human, some how.

More Balbo pictures.http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/4235/italobalbo.jpg

Awesome, thanks again, lounge! :)

Pellegrino Shots

April 21st, 2010, 05:41 PM

This is the greatest thread in the history of the internet.

Pellegrino Shots

April 21st, 2010, 05:50 PM

I found a few pics online that I think you might be able to use, this first one would have been perfect for your earlier post on the unveiling of the BM statute in Lybia earlier, but I think it could fit in on a pretty good post in the near future as well...

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/slabbedquality/mussoislam.jpg

Pellegrino Shots

April 21st, 2010, 05:51 PM

From 1933:

http://prints-4-u.com/store/images/E2121933/E2121933261.jpg

Pellegrino Shots

April 21st, 2010, 05:51 PM

http://prints-4-u.com/store/images/E2131933/E2131933259R.jpg

Pellegrino Shots

April 21st, 2010, 05:53 PM

It's a small print, but Goering meeting with Balbo...

http://prints-4-u.com/store/images/E2141933/E2141933178.jpg

Pellegrino Shots

April 21st, 2010, 05:55 PM

Some stamps celebrating Balbo's transatlantic journey. i think the one could double as a "Balbo landing in Rome" as part of this ATL

http://www.gothicstamps.com/inventory/images/34170.jpg

joea64

April 21st, 2010, 06:12 PM

Nice image finds! I was wondering where the thread had gone (no doubt Geekhis' little one is keeping him running around...)

Pellegrino Shots

April 21st, 2010, 06:12 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/3/3c/Balbo-Mussolini-Libia-Pd-italy-007.jpg/250px-Balbo-Mussolini-Libia-Pd-italy-007.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Piloti_Alfa_Romeo_e_Italo_Balbo.JPG/250px-Piloti_Alfa_Romeo_e_Italo_Balbo.JPG

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Aerospace/thumb/Aero62G2.jpg

http://www.clarenville.net/balbo2.jpg

Pellegrino Shots

April 21st, 2010, 06:16 PM

I found it noteworthy that the Republic of Chad had a stamp of Balbo. I think it will be very interesting to see how this ATL plays out in regards to the relationship between Italian Libya and her neighbors, particularly Chad to the south, whose history with Libya has been strained over the 20th century...

http://hobby.nikolaev.com.ua/foto/pictures/Italo-Balbo_thumb.jpg

joea64

April 21st, 2010, 06:16 PM

Good work again! Do you have any photos of the Marshal with his wife? Images of Donna Manu are hard to come by, though lounge60 posted a couple last month.

Pellegrino Shots

April 21st, 2010, 06:32 PM

I'm going to keep looking, nothing yet, but I've been pretty lucky with what I've found so far...

Pellegrino Shots

April 21st, 2010, 07:04 PM

Can't tell if this is Donna Manu or not, this picture was taken in Chicago during his visit so I am guessig not.

Balbo at Fort Sheriden with Chaplain Aristeo Simoni.

"During World War I, First Lieutenant (Chaplain) Simoni of the 111th Infantry Regiment, 28th Division, A.E.F., received the Distinguished Service Cross for rescuing three wounded servicemen from the frontlines in France. "

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Qy92ZWX6mbE/Stkp8pyJACI/AAAAAAAAAkw/-Dfgu8Rmh_E/s320/Italo+Balbo+LCDM+92-24-688.jpg

Pellegrino Shots

April 21st, 2010, 07:17 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Italo_Balbo_alla_Targa_Florio.JPG

Geekhis Khan

April 21st, 2010, 07:23 PM

This is the greatest thread in the history of the internet.

Well, thank you, Pellegrino, and welcome. :)

Thanks for the images. They're great. I wish I'd had the Mussie statue unveiling one earlier!

lounge60

April 21st, 2010, 11:26 PM

This is the Uniform of Regia Aereonautica Italiana (Italian Royal Air Force),adopted in 1923.
Is very similar to the RAF uniform.
After the WW-II this model was select for the new khaki uniform for officer and petty officer of Italian Army.
Balbo wearing this uniform (with Air Marshall ranks) in blue-gray for winter in Italy

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6518/itpiofull2.png
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9923/itcolfull.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6262/maggpilotagrandeuniform.jpg

and in khaki for winter in Lybia

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6498/regiacolonie.png

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2134/18170715.png

For summer the uniform was white,in duck cotton or silk,very simple and elegant.
The model of this uniform was the same for all armed forces (Army,Air Force,Milizia),and different only for the Navy that had (and have) a stand up collar and buttons hidden form a ribbon.
This is a fascist Milizia sample,but is the same (with gold buttons and without black distinctives to the collar) for Air Force.

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3637/giaccamoschettiere1g.png

And this is Balbo in white uniform

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/2042/bal4.jpg

Other uniform ,but only for in africa,was the bush jacket "Sahariana".

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3656/ittropltcolfull.png

This is Balbo in Sahariana,with Mussolini in white

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/930/muss8.jpg

The mess dress was all blue midnight for winter,and with white visor cap and jacket for summer.

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/4590/uffuniformdasocinv1929.jpg

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/5667/balbo.jpg

The flight suits were Blue-gray or light brown for winter,and white for summer.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/5758/itfltsuitfull.png

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6969/uffpilotaintutavoloest1.jpg

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8428/19btd0.jpg

The Regia Aereonautica ranks.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5149/rachart.jpg

Well,maybe we Italians will not be the more strong Army,but for sure we are the most elegants. :D

Geekhis Khan

April 22nd, 2010, 12:37 AM

Great stuff, thanks again, lounge! :)

Geekhis Khan

April 23rd, 2010, 07:59 PM

Chapter 8: “Duce” Balbo

“A particular sense of semi-intoxication sweeps over me, and in my heart unwritten songs of victory are echoing. The eyes of my companions are radiant with joy. The sea which sparkles beneath the rays of the sun seems to join our exultation with its crystalline foam-capped waves. Our Fascist native land may well be proud of its airmen. They have brought honour to the uniform of the black shirt which they will proudly wear as they enter America.” – Italo Balbo, recounting the first sighting of the North American coast at Labrador in My Air Armada.

“To be Fuhrer [of the Germans] is to be the shepherd, all the flock dutifully lining up at the rap of your staff. To be Capo [of the Italians] is to be the goat herd, constantly on the run pointlessly trying to organize your braying, straying, fighting, fornicating herds!” – an angry comment overheard from Capo Balbo after a particularly contentious meeting [1].

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/1774/pdvd001k.jpg

Executive Minister Balbo in planning with Generals

The Treaty of Torquay came with a big sigh of relief for many in Italy. The very real fears of war against a combined Germano-French front were enough to give even the most belligerent of Italians pause, particularly during the unsteady interregnum. For Balbo, however, the situation had providen a political opportunity of the ultimate sort. In one fell swoop he had purged the Triumvirate of his most virulent enemy and set his self up as “duce in all but name”, to quote Genovera. The new position of Executive Minister gave him executive control of nearly every state function. He was at once the Prime Minister, Interior Minister, Chairman of the Grand Council, and Defense Minister with an inordinate influence in foreign affairs and the military. No one since Mussolini had wielded so much overt power, though Balbo still officially lacked much of the power of the dead Duce’s position. Balbo’s de jura boss, Capo del Governo Emilio De Bono, was a powerless figurehead. And as his contemporaries would quickly discover, Balbo’s growing understanding of virtual power, popularity at home and abroad, and sheer force of personality would quickly grow to eclipse the other offices.

Balbo had come a long way from the bombastic young Quadrumvir of the Blackshirt days, “constantly outmaneuvered,” as Ciano put it, in the cutthroat world of Italian politics. His experiences in statecraft in Libya and his crash course in practical politics since his return to Rome had created a much wiser and more cunning man than the young Air Marshal who had been cast off into Libyan exile. As the king had previously assured Balbo at that time, Balbo’s Libyan experience had indeed prepared him for higher leadership, though in ways none had expected. His role amongst the tumultuous social-ethnic climate of Libya had introduced him to tribal politics, religious politics, military occupation politics, and the back room politics of the social scene. He had dined with royalty and nomad alike, and learned from both ends of the socio-economic spectrum. The betrayal he still felt over his exile left him far more jaded and suspicious than before, and better able to sense (and expect) treachery and betrayal. The new Balbo was a man with the bombastic showmanship of Teddy Roosevelt, the sanguinity of Mazzini, the political cunning of Mussolini, the totalitarian maneuvering of a Machiavellian prince, and the judgment of Solomon. He would need all of these talents to steer the Italian ship through the coming storms.

Yet despite the official Fascist myth of Balbo as the self-made “Fascist New Man,” he had only risen to the level he had through the assistance of many in very high places. Balbo received the continued support of the Confindustria and banking sectors that he had in the opening days of the Triumvirate and added to this list the support of Mussolini’s influential ex-mistress Margharita Sarfatti and her network of Roman power players and Fascist gerarchi. His surprisingly eloquent handling of difficult affairs and his growing popularity in the fashionable halls of High Society gained him myriad allies in the aristocracy, including the support of the king himself. His alliance networks gained a major boost after Munich with the courting of Federzoni and his powerful Nationalist bloc. Balbo renewed his contacts within the military, making allies with several notable marshals, generals, and admirals particularly those of the progressive modernizing and mechanizing school, counting among his allies…Marshal Ugo Cavallero and General Federico Baistrocchi.

Yet of his allies the most valuable proved to be an unassuming police chief named Arturo Bocchini, head of Mussolini’s secret police force, an organization known simply by the possible acronym OVRA. Balbo and Bocchini are said to have met amongst the near-hedonistic revelry Roman social scene, sharing, as it were, a love for fine foods, strong drink, and fast women. Bocchini, whose star had been waning since his “failure” to prevent the death of Mussolini and whose OVRA was losing ground to rival MVSN and Carabinieri groups, welcomed the opportunity for a new high-placed sponsor. According to a former aide, in return for this valuable sponsorship Bocchini handed Balbo political gold: all of his files on the actions – and scandals – of Italy’s and Fascism’s elite. This may also have included the files Bocchini undoubtedly kept on Balbo himself—such a move was like Bocchini and would prove Bocchini’s willingness to play along and provide a veiled threat of OVRA’s reach.

While the true extent of the now-legendary “OVRA Files” may never be known – assuming they even existed – shortly after forging his friendship with Bocchini Balbo proved capable of eliciting support and cooperation at a level he had not previously shown. One overt example is certainly the leverage he used against arch-rival Farinacci in their famous “Balkan Crisis Meeting” argument. A more arguable claim has also been leveled over Grandi’s growing willingness to submit to Balbian authority, though this was as likely due to Grandi drifting with the prevailing political winds as over any background coercion.

Whatever the combination of political skill and/or coercion employed by Balbo in his rise to the head of the Fascist nation, once there he wasted little time in consolidating his gains, rewarding his allies, and isolating his enemies. Though his more drastic reorganizations and purges awaited his ascension to the full rank of Capo del Governa, his early reorganizations were the most drastic seen since Mussolini’s resumption of most of the Ministerial positions. Balbo rewarded his political allies while marginalizing political rivals. Federzoni, still officially head of the Senate, was rewarded obliquely by getting to essentially hand pick many of the domestic ministry positions including the Ministry of Corporations. Volpi assumed more authority within the treasury and gained influence in the Corporations (a move that further alienated the Fascist Radicals, who saw the move as a sell-out to Bourgeois capitalists). Sarfatti and Balbo’s old friend Nello Quilicci were appointed to high positions within the Ministry of Popular Culture. Marshal Cavallero assumed the position of Capo di Stato Maggiore Generale, while his (and by extension Balbo’s) rival Badoglio was “promoted” into a more grandiose but notably less influential position in the Monarchy. Meanwhile, Balbian rival Starace (and through him the PNF) found his influence waning and his position becoming progressively more ceremonial. […]

Balbo’s domestic agenda didn’t stop at reorganizations and power-consolidations, however. One of the most immediate and in the long term sweeping agendas was the beginning of the military reform initiatives. These began almost immediately following the conclusion of the Torquay Treaty. The disturbing revelations about the inadequacies of the Italian mobilization in the face of German belligerence led Balbo to initiate an immediate and comprehensive military readiness assessment including a whirlwind tour of military facilities across the empire. […] [Similarly] Balbo set out on a major diplomatic tour with Grandi in 1939 with the express purpose of legitimizing his leadership and preventing a repeat of the war crisis that might have destroyed the Italian state. In typical Balbian fashion the I-MANU flew the diplomatic team from city to city, nation to nation across Europe, taking Balbo and Grandi even to the hearts of the Nazi and Stalinist nations themselves.

From Roman Eagle, the Biography of Italo Balbo by Giuseppe Bosco, PhD., Professor of History at the University of Illinois, Chicago.

************************************************

Note a piè di pagina:

1 – ATL quote, invented by me.

Nivek

April 23rd, 2010, 10:56 PM

I'm paying for intenet, i have little time but... that is a excellent update, now balbo is in all except name capo or duce of italia, and in time for the great strorm who come...

hey GK, can you do to us a great favor, put all the TL in Timeline and scenarios, because i'm want to re-read several part but why all the replies is more difficult... and in a compact version there will be more easy

att

nivek von beldo

P.S the balbo inveted quote was the most awesome of the update

joea64

April 24th, 2010, 12:13 AM

Hooray!!! :D At last Our Hero assumes the mantle of state power, and none too soon, with war-clouds darkening over Europe. Given all we've seen of the Marshal so far, I daresay he'll be far more able to manage the fractious Fascist factions of Italy, fulminate furiously as he might (was that alliteration intentional? you be the judge), far better than Mussie ever could. I gravely misdoubt me that we've seen the last of Farinacci though, bad luck to the creature. If I'm any judge, he's lurking somewhere with his own supporters, nursing his bruised ego and plotting his revenge.

Hope you'll write up soon an account of the meetings with Hitler and Stalin. Like I suggested earlier, that picture of a wary, skeptical Balbo might have been taken at either summit. ;) Also, when Balbo visits Britain, I trust he'll encounter Churchill. I don't suppose he'll be able to get over to the U.S. again at this point, but then he has a close friend, Breckenridge Long, as U.S. Ambassador, who will be a reliable conduit between him and Roosevelt.

I agree with Nivek, it's about time to start assembling the finished parts for Timelines and Scenarios.

EDIT: Remember when I mentioned the OTL WWII propaganda poster showing a fist clad in the Italian flag punching out Hitler with the legend "FUORI I TEDESCHI"? Well, I finally found it!

http://www.dwightdeisenhower.com/spykit/images/Doc19posterItalianspunchingoutHilter.jpg (http://http://www.dwightdeisenhower.com/spykit/images/Doc19posterItalianspunchingoutHilter.jpg)

maverick

April 24th, 2010, 01:24 AM

FINALLY, BALBO IN POWER! IT'S BEEN SO LONG I CAN BARELY BELIEVE IT!

*Pops the Champagne*

Jimbrock

April 24th, 2010, 08:53 AM

At last, the eagle has landed.
:p

ferrosol

April 24th, 2010, 02:28 PM

Great Balbo finally has the power! Now to see what he does with it. He is obviously going to want to reform the army but will he have enough time to get it done?

On a slightly OT note though my spell checker keeps trying to change Balbo to Balboa so anyone care to speculate on what a Sylvester Stallone film of Balbos life would look like in this ATL? :D

Shadow Knight

April 24th, 2010, 07:33 PM

Great Balbo finally has the power! Now to see what he does with it. He is obviously going to want to reform the army but will he have enough time to get it done?

Of course he does if he follows Franco's playbook and stays out of the upcoming war. Which would do wonders for the Italian economy I might add.

If he does not wisely stay out then he's going to need to stay out for quite a while I would think.

Geekhis Khan

April 25th, 2010, 12:22 AM

Thanks, all. :)

Yes, long time coming. Worth it, I hope. This one took a while to get posted due to outside reasons. Hopefully the next posts won't be too long, but who knows when you have a 16-month old in the house!

Got a lot of reading to do for the coming war...the last half of Mussolini and his Generals and Mussolini Unleashed are on the stack. The sheer complexity of the clusterfuck that was the Fascist war machine is a daunting enough challange just to understand historically without having to throw in the Eris' Apple of AH. It's no wonder people like to fall back on stereotypes and oversimplifications!

I'm paying for intenet, i have little time but... that is a excellent update, now balbo is in all except name capo or duce of italia, and in time for the great strorm who come...

hey GK, can you do to us a great favor, put all the TL in Timeline and scenarios, because i'm want to re-read several part but why all the replies is more difficult... and in a compact version there will be more easy

att

nivek von beldo

P.S the balbo inveted quote was the most awesome of the update

Thanks, nivek, and thank you for wasting your internet money on my humble TL. :o

BTW, an almost comment-free version is available on the counter-factual.net boards. here's a direct link (http://counter-factual.net/upload/showthread.php?t=4409).

And yes, I had fun with that quote, glad you liked it! :D

Hooray!!! :D At last Our Hero assumes the mantle of state power, and none too soon, with war-clouds darkening over Europe. Given all we've seen of the Marshal so far, I daresay he'll be far more able to manage the fractious Fascist factions of Italy, fulminate furiously as he might (was that alliteration intentional? you be the judge), far better than Mussie ever could.

EDIT: Remember when I mentioned the OTL WWII propaganda poster showing a fist clad in the Italian flag punching out Hitler with the legend "FUORI I TEDESCHI"? Well, I finally found it!

http://www.dwightdeisenhower.com/spykit/images/Doc19posterItalianspunchingoutHilter.jpg

He should be as skilled a political wrangler as Mussie, to be honest! :eek: That was Mussie's true talent: gaining and maintaining power. Balbo will have a rockier road in that regard and will have to pull some wild stuff to keep his "goats" together.

PS: the link's not working for me. Can you insert the image on the board?

FINALLY, BALBO IN POWER! IT'S BEEN SO LONG I CAN BARELY BELIEVE IT!

*Pops the Champagne*

Hope it's worth the wait, mav. :)

At last, the eagle has landed.
:p

Wish I'd thought of that one. :(

May have to steal it later! ;)

On a slightly OT note though my spell checker keeps trying to change Balbo to Balboa so anyone care to speculate on what a Sylvester Stallone film of Balbos life would look like in this ATL? :D

Oy... :rolleyes:

"Hey, yo, Manu baby, we gotta fly over the Atlantic here!"

"Don't do it, Bal, you'll never make it!"

See what you made me do?!?!? :mad::mad::mad::mad:;):p

Of course he does if he follows Franco's playbook and stays out of the upcoming war. Which would do wonders for the Italian economy I might add.

If he does not wisely stay out then he's going to need to stay out for quite a while I would think.

All I can say to that is "Stay tuned"... ;)

Pellegrino Shots

April 26th, 2010, 10:07 PM

Another great update!

lounge60

April 27th, 2010, 12:17 AM

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8090/doc19posteritalianspunc.png

joea64

April 27th, 2010, 12:55 AM

Thank you, lounge! I'm still having difficulty posting images here, so that's a big help. I think that could be one of the most famous ATL Italian propaganda posters. :)

mailinutile2

April 27th, 2010, 06:56 AM

To be Fuhrer [of the Germans] is to be the shepherd, all the flock dutifully lining up at the rap of your staff. To be Capo [of the Italians] is to be the goat herd, constantly on the run pointlessly trying to organize your braying, straying, fighting, fornicating herds!

For sheep are stupid, and have to be driven. But goats are intelligent, and need to be led.
Terry Pratchtett, Small Gods

Orry

April 27th, 2010, 07:27 AM

Somebody who is good with photoshop or similar might produce an image of a fasces striking instead of the fist. The clenched fist is more communist than fascist imho

mailinutile2

April 27th, 2010, 08:24 AM

Reading your lines about OVRA reminded me a couple of metropolitan legends which were quite popular during the fascist regime.

The first is about Guglielmo Marconi discovering a "Death Ray" in late 1930 (a lot of other ones including Tesla claimed the same thing, but in Italy only Marconi's was diffused): here is a sample in the american press.

Another one regards the alledgedly landing of an "uncoventional aircraft" (aeromobile non convenzonale) on 13 june 1933 Near Varese.
The craft (the term UFO has not beeen coined yet :) ) was considered to be some sort of foreign (possibly german) prototype which suffered an incident, and was transported in the Siai Marchetti hangar of Vergiate.
The only documents about it are that:
1) OVRA established a commission (Gabinetto Rs33) of scientists to study it.
2) There are a couple of telegrams which allegedly report Mussolini's order to hush the fact (D’ordine personale del Duce disponesi assoluto silenzio )
3) The hangar was set on fire on 17 march 1943 and the thing was destroyed.

joea64

April 27th, 2010, 09:07 AM

Somebody who is good with photoshop or similar might produce an image of a fasces striking instead of the fist. The clenched fist is more communist than fascist imho

Interestingly, I once suggested almost that very image; a fasces splitting a swastika in twain.

Geordie

April 27th, 2010, 10:32 AM

Viva Balbo! Viva Geekhis! Viva Italia!

:cool:

Keep up the good work sir, as often as family, work and other aspects of real life allow!

Geekhis Khan

April 27th, 2010, 10:48 AM

Another great update!

Thank you.

{image}
Somebody who is good with photoshop or similar might produce an image of a fasces striking instead of the fist. The clenched fist is more communist than fascist imho

Thanks for the image, lounge! And yes, if anyone wants to photoshop the version Orry suggests please feel free to do so.

For sheep are stupid, and have to be driven. But goats are intelligent, and need to be led.
Terry Pratchtett, Small Gods

Great quote...I love Pratchett! :D

Reading your lines about OVRA reminded me a couple of metropolitan legends which were quite popular during the fascist regime.

The first is about Guglielmo Marconi discovering a "Death Ray" in late 1930 (a lot of other ones including Tesla claimed the same thing, but in Italy only Marconi's was diffused): here is a sample in the american press.

Yea, a bit ASB for this TL, and as an electrical engineer myself I know too well the limits of electromagnetic energy to take any EM Death Ray claims seriously.

But some ASB TL where Tesla and Marconi start a Death Ray arms race could be fun. :)

Viva Balbo! Viva Geekhis! Viva Italia!

:cool:

Keep up the good work sir, as often as family, work and other aspects of real life allow!

Thanks, Geordie! :)

Geordie

April 27th, 2010, 03:30 PM

Thanks, Geordie! :)

My pleasure. :)

I'm just glad I've caught up so I can post on the thread, as opposed to sending gushing PMs about the awesomeness of this timeline. :p

mailinutile2

April 27th, 2010, 04:07 PM

From a Great War italian propaganda poster

Urban fox

April 28th, 2010, 01:46 AM

Just started reading this over the past few days. I must say great job.

This TL is highly humorous, well written and plausible. Particularly the part dealing with Balkan politics, the place really is a utter snake pit.

I think this TL really needs it's own TVTropes page, like a coulpe of others on AH.:D

Geekhis Khan

April 28th, 2010, 12:17 PM

joea64

April 28th, 2010, 12:43 PM

Thanks, Urban fox and welcome! :)

I certainly won't stop anyone from tvtroping this, but I have no time to do so myself. ;)

I can think of three tropes that apply to Our Hero right off the top of my head:

Magnificent Bastard
Refuge in Audacity (his dramatic return to Rome after Mussolini's death)
Casanova

He might also be an example of Gorgeous Period Dress because of his uniforms and sharp suits, but there may be a trope more specific to uniforms. I'd have to check that.

Geekhis Khan

April 28th, 2010, 12:45 PM

Hm - I'm a bit unsure about the Soviets getting Bessarabia. Perhaps the southeast regions that went to the Ukraine OTL ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Regions_of_Moldavia.png ) on the basis of ethnic claims, but as for the rest, the only claim the Soviets have on it is "well, it used to be Russian" which applies just as well to Poland and Finland - not exactly a good precedent. NOBODY liked the Soviets, and at the time they were seen as more as a propaganda/subversion/ideological threat than a military one (have the military purges have taken place on schedule?), so why given them a major concession blatantly against the self-determination principle when annoying them is unlikely to start a big war?

Bruce

I don't know how I missed this post (I just saw it while reviewing my earlier posts for the upcoming one) but you make damned good points. I'm amending the post to take your thoughts into consideration. The USSR is not retro-disinvited to Torquay. ;)

Thanks, Bruce! :)

Edit to post #588 on pg. 30 (changes in red):
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

February of 1939 has gone down in history as [Nevil] Chamberlain's finest, and saddest hour. Like King Cnut ordering back the sea, The Great Peacemaker, as Chamberlain became known, could only hold back the tides of war for so long.

The dawn of 1939 saw renewed troubles in the Balkans once again driving Europe towards war. Italian support for Bulgaria and Hungary, ostensibly against Romania and Yugoslavia, brought German support of the latter nations and a looming war crisis. Armies had begun mobilization and even the smallest of pretense could have seen a war that might have dragged the French, Soviets, or possibly even the British into its maw. Into this looming battleground strode the unassuming form of Chamberlain. Vowing once again to have "peace in our time" he personally contacted the leaders of all the nations including both the German and Italian governments, famously interrupting the latter during their war deliberations. He offered London's services as mediators and offered to host peace talks at the seaside resort town of Torquay in Southwest England.

The first to respond, surprisingly, was Germany. For all of Hitler's now famous warmongering and thirst for conflict he had no desire for a war in the Balkans against an Italian Fascist state he still admired. Documents discovered after the fall of Berlin describe deliberations within the Nazi government wherein victory against the large and presumed formidable Italian military could not be promised (recall that this was the untested raw Wehrmacht, not the formidable, seemingly unstoppable force of a year afterwards). Hitler's eyes, still looking east towards promises of lebensraum, balked at both the distraction of a Balkan war and the strategic uncertainty of defeating the "Bolshevik Hordes" within the narrow confines of a Bessarabian front. OKH could not assure him that the Italian and Hungarian armies could be subdued before the Soviets overran Romania and her vital oil fields and the untested but theoretically devastating Blitzkkrieg tactics could not be assured to be successful in the mountainous Alpine frontier, especially in the unpredictable weather of the late winter/early spring.

Italy, itself utterly unprepared for war despite its military's size and public facade, likewise agreed to the talks. Grandi had essentially stumbled into the war crisis by vastly underestimating the tensions between the Balkan nations much as Mussolini had overestimated his ability to unite all of Yugoslavia's neighbors against her a decade earlier. [...] The ultimate source of the crisis was Greater Romania's instability in the face of irredentist claims by her neighbors exacerbated by the dominant National Renaissance Front's political insecurity. Literally the assumption of an Italian-backed Hungaro-Bulgarian front against her was enough to elicit Romania's mobilization and the corresponding domino mobilizations of the other nations in the region. [...]

The Torquay Talks began in late February and the relatively mild climate of the resort town (warm in comparison to the rest of Northern Europe for February) may have helped set a more amicable mood. In attendance were Hitler and von Ribbentrop (Germany), King Victor Emmanuel, Grandi and Balbo (Italy), PM Daladier (France), King Carol II and PM Călinescu [1] (Romania), Regent Miklós Horthy and PM Béla Imrédy (Hungary), Tsar Boris III and PM Kyoseivanov (Bulgaria), King Zog (Albania), and Prince Paul and PM Stojadinović [2] (Yugoslavia) in addition to King George and PM Chamberlain as host dignitaries. Notably not at the talks was Minister Litinov of the Soviet Union. [...]

The talks continued for days and deliberations nearly broke down several times. [...] Once again Germany would ironically prove the harbinger of peace when von Ribbentrop suggested the partition of Transylvania to appease Hungarian claims. In return Hungary would agree to allow open German commercial transit to and from Romania. This virtual sell-out of her small ally would severely strain Germano-Romanian relations, but in the end Romania, beset on all sides and without a Great Power sponsor, would fold to nearly all demands. Once Călinescu reluctantly agreed to cede the northern half of Transylvania to Hungary the flood gates were opened. In the end Călinescu had no other recourse but to cede Dobrudja back to Bulgaria as well [removed: Soviet gain of Bessarabia] [3]. Population exchanges would be made appropriately to redistribute the demographics in the exchanged regions. As talks continued minor allowances were made elsewhere, such as Yugoslavia's acquiescence to later talks with Bulgaria over the rights of Macedonians and an agreement with Italy to allow Croats and Kosovar Albanians more internal autonomy [4]. Additional details on trade agreements, transit rights, and national recognition followed as part of the fine tuning of what became the Treaty of Torquay, signed on March 3rd, 1939. Chamberlain, hailed internationally for his efforts, would receive the 1939 Nobel Peace Prize [5] and become renown as a peacemaker. [...]

The Treaty of Torquay would have major implications politically as well as internationally for many nations. The first and perhaps most predictable change was the fall of the Romanian National Renaissance Front government and rise of the Antonescu government [6]. The nationalist backlash at this "betrayal" and fall of Greater Romania would inflame public opinion and empower the Authori-Collectivist Iron Guard, leaving King Carol little other choice than to call upon his rival Antonescu. In Yugoslavia the "necessities of internal accord" would give Prince Paul the excuse he needed to replace Stojadinović with the more amenable Dragiša Cvetković later that month.

Predictably, the governments of Hungary and Bulgaria would receive a massive popular boost at home. Also predictably the Balkan diplomatic situation, which had begun to coalesce into two blocs, was again thrown into chaos. German "betrayal" of Romania pushed it into secret talks with Britain and Italy while Hungary began once again to warm to Germany.

The greatest internal political change, however, came in Italy. The internal politics of the war scare had shaken the king's and army's fading confidence in Chairman Farinacci, whose threatened resignation was promptly accepted. The resultant power vacuum was immediately filled (with tacit royal acquiescence) by rising star Marshal Balbo, who's position as Domestic Minister was elevated and empowered to the new title of Executive Minister, a "vice chief" position historian Claudio Genovera dubbed "Duce in all but name". While officially still subordinate to Capo del Governo De Bono, in reality all executive control over the running of the country was effectively in Balbo's hands.

Furthermore, the growing freeze between Germany and Italy began to thaw as Balbo and Hitler came to terms over a number of international (primarily anti-Soviet) issues, though they still had severe ideological differences particularly over the "Jewish question". [...] Grandi and von Ribbentrop would thereafter begin a set of secret correspondences that British Intelligence feared might signal an eventual renewal of the Axis.

From Warriors, Diplomats, Statesmen, Dictators – the Political and Diplomatic History of Europe in the Twentieth Century, by Dr. Eric Spellman, Harvard University, 1994

************************************************

Note a piè di pagina:

1 – ATL Armand Călinescu has recently taken over from Miron Cristea after the latter's heart-attack death (due to stress over the looming war) in January. OTL he would only just survive the heart attacks and his death would occur later in March.

2 – The looming war crisis has forced Prince Paul to keep Milan Stojadinović on as PM (at least for the moment). OTL he had him replaced by Dragiša Cvetković in early February due to Stojadinović's failure to subdue Croat nationalism. ATL it comes later (in this post, actually).

3 – This is essentially what happened to Romania OTL in 1940 following the post-Molotov-Ribbentrop Treaty of Craiova except that here Romania has kept Northern Bukovina and Bessarabia (ceded to the USSR OTL in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact).

4 – The Croat regional autonomy will happen as OTL, but ATL a similar deal is eventually worked out with Macedonians and Kosovar Albanians. This would see the foundations for a potential Federalized union of national states that, alas, would never come into being.

5 – OTL none was awarded in 1939...for obvious reasons. Unlike OTL's poor reputation as a naive fool and dupe, ATL Chamberlain will be remembered as a skilled diplomat and man of peace and good will, though "even he" couldn't contain a mad dog like Hitler.

6 – Months ahead of OTL and for the equivalent reason after Craiova.

mailinutile2

April 28th, 2010, 01:25 PM

February of 1939 ...
Notably not at the talks was Minister Molotov of the Soviet Union.

Should not still be Litvinov?

Geekhis Khan

April 28th, 2010, 02:39 PM

Should not still be Litvinov?

You're absolutely right. :o

Molotov doesn't take over until May 3rd.

Geekhis Khan

April 28th, 2010, 04:15 PM

Italo Balbo's whirlwind diplomatic tour of April 1939 was conducted at a time of extreme international tensions. The Treaty of Torquay had averted war between Germany and Italy over the Balkan sphere of influence, but had not resolved the inherent tensions of the region. Furthermore, tensions in some areas were notably increased, particularly those of Romania, which suffered unprecedented dismemberment in the name of temporary peace, losing half of Transylvania to Hungary and Dobrudja to Bulgaria. Also infuriated by the treaty was the Soviet Union, which had been excluded from the talks and still had designs on Bessarabia and Bukovina. International tensions were further escalated by Hungary's seizure of Carpathian Ruthenia in March and Germany's subsequent annexation-in-all-but-name of the rump Czech state into the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia. The timing of this move was a clear indication that the Torquay treaty had thawed relations between Berlin and Budapest. Slovakia, meanwhile, fell wholly within the German sphere. [...]

Balbo's first stop was Paris, where his flight of Savoia-Marchetti transports made a spectacular loop of the city before landing. He was greeted with warmth by the crowd...and with hope by the French government. PM Édouard Daladier himself met Balbo at the plane and insisted that they ride together. As later revealed in Balbo's Diario 1937-1940 [1] Daladier and Balbo shared a suspicion on Hitler and his motives. Daladier in particular was hopeful for detente with Italy following the death of the Francophobic Mussolini and saw in Balbo a potential ally against German expansion. In particular he hoped to renew the Stresse Front and settle the Italo-French tensions over Savoy, Nice, Corsica, and Tunisia.

It was indeed this latter issue, the continued antagonism over Italy's western irredentism, that forestalled any hopes for a formal reemergence of the Stresse Front... [though] Balbo did manage to secure a secret pledge not to interfere with Italian efforts in Spain, a pledge to recognize Italy's "dominion" over Abyssinia, and a formal recognition of the political rights and cultural "distinction" of Italian families in Tunisia. [They further] made agreements on Mediterranean shipping rights, rebalanced trade, and pledged to open secret talks on military cooperation in the event of war by both nations against Germany. [...]

While not the formal or even secret alliance Daladier had hoped, the accords did reduce some of the tensions between the two nations (tensions which had grown under Mussolini and been inflamed by Abyssinia, Spain, and the now-defunct Axis) and removed much of the mutual suspicion between the Latin sisters. [...]

The next two lightening stops, Brussels and Amsterdam, saw Balbo greeted as a celebrity. The latter still warmly recalled his visit with the Atlantici squadron half a decade earlier and greeted him with similar fanfare. [...] Balbo and Grandi made few to no promises to the Low Country governments beyond their initial expressions of "concern" [over German expansionism] and these two visits netted little more than trade talks and amicable relations. [...]

The visit to London was one of the most important of the tour. [...] Landing after another of his audacious fly-bys Balbo was greeted with an impromptu parade on his way through London. [...] His meetings with Chamberlain went well despite the thin Prime Minister's obvious ill-ease beside the boisterous Balbo. Chamberlain proved very accommodating, much as he had before to Mussolinian and Triumvirate Italy [2]. Pledging both the recognition of Italy's "interest" in Abyssinia and continued non-interference in Spain, Chamberlain went further to reach accords over Mediterranean shipping. [...] British domination of the Gibraltar straights and Suez canal, as well as domination of the Red Sea via Aden, left Italy in a difficult strategic position vis-a-vis Britain. Balbo's recent strategic reassessment had shown Italy's continued vulnerability to British naval actions and blockade and Balbo, personally an Anglophile, was willing to reciprocate Chamberlain's accommodation despite his personal distaste for the "womanly" Chamberlain. Balbo and Grandi met secretly with Chamberlain and select ministers including Winston Churchill, a man more Balbo's style, and they hammered out a long set of agreements on Sovereignty and spheres of influence in the Mediterranean and Africa, shipping rights, naval buildup and deployment, economic cooperation, and possibilities for military cooperation against "mutual eastern enemies", which could as easily be German as Soviet. The agreements did not lead to any formal pacts or alliances (like in the case with France) though Balbo pledged his "admiration for the British people" and his "shared concern" over "eastern aggressors", which Chamberlain took as a tacit willingness for mutual defensive action against German or Soviet aggression, though it promised no such thing. [...]

The next major stop was also the most contentious: Berlin. After being refused his signature circle of the city Balbo landed directly and was swiftly taken straight to the Reichstag. The meeting with Hitler was cordial but uneasy in the wake of the war crisis and a continued divergence of opinion between the two authori-collectivist nations over a "Jewish question" made all the more tense over growing reports of internment camps. Hitler himself had little time for the "Jew lover" Balbo, feeling the new Executive Minister to be "a shadow" of his predecessor Mussolini. Goering, however, warmly renewed his acquaintance with Balbo, sharing a deep love for aviation and entertainments.

While Hitler stewed away in isolation, appearing no more often than diplomacy required, Goering led Balbo on a grand tour of Berlin while Grandi and von Ribbentrop began discussions over more concrete matters. "The Reichmarshal was quite the host," Balbo remembered fondly in the Diario, "He has an admirable joie de vie for a German...I would much prefer his leadership of the new Reich to that of the cold snake who possesses it now."

After a day of tours and publicity shots and a night of high entertainment that saw Balbo as the hit of Berlin's social scene, the next two days were down to business. First off, Balbo surprised even Grandi by his willingness to acknowledge German "interest" in the former Czechoslovakia. While he never formally nor informally recognized German annexation of the region, the statement amounted to tacitly the same thing. Hungary and Romania were a stickier point, but both nations agreed to each other's "unique economic interests" in the two nations, particularly as bulwarks against their mutual Soviet bugbear. The biggest and historically most controversial agreement came over Poland, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, and Greece. Balbo openly disclaimed any interest in the former and pledged neutrality in the event of a Germano-Polish war, whomever the aggressor [3]. He went further to pledge a "common interest" in halting the spread of Communism to the point that talks were planned on potential cooperation in the event of a mutual war against an aggressive Soviet Union. On the Balkans Germany gave tacit support to Italy's "interest" in Bulgaria and Greece and pledged neutrality in the event of a Yugoslav-Italian war instigated by Belgrade. Turkey was consciously never brought up by either side. [...]

Reassurances on their "mutual concerns" in Spain were made and both nations pledged to continue their support for Franco. The only difficulty was the growing rivalry between Italian and German troops in the theater. While this had mostly remained cordial if strained since the war scare, a few incidents of violence, mostly alcohol-related, showed the cracks in the current "partnership of convenience". Both pledged to admonish their troops to behave more admirably to the other's. [...] Trade and economic issues flowed smoothly...with arrangements made for German coal and metals made with a tacit understanding of Italy's willingness to act as a go-between for trade in the event of "German shipping difficulties" universally understood to be naval blockade. [...]

On specific Italo-German concerns Balbo pledged to respect the political rights of culturally German citizens in South Tyrol/Alto Aldige and put a moratorium on "Italianization" efforts underway in the area. In return Germany expressed "no current interest" in any repatriation of the area. Balbo went further to state off the record that Italy "did not see any immediate reason" to oppose the questionable Austrian plebiscite over Anschluss. [...] When asked later by Grandi why he was so willing to allow moves he had previously so vehemently opposed [Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Austria] Balbo replied, simply, "time, my friend, time." [...]

One issue of minor concern for all parties at the moment, but one that would have far reaching effects, occurred when Deputy Fuhrer Hess, a bit naively hoping to sugar-coat the elephant in the room, mentioned Jewish colonial resettlement as an option to "Jewish concerns". Balbo expressed a passing interest in the plan as "certainly preferable to some Russian pogrom". The ensuing conversation would be brief, but it would plant the seed for what would be one of Balbo's most controversial programs, and one with reverberations still felt today: Project Moses. [...]

The stop in Warsaw was met with much fanfare, but in the end accomplished little. [...] With Balbo's previous willingness to stay out of any German war with Poland the entire visit became a farce of false diplomacy and empty assurances. [...]

The next and most controversial stop was Moscow. As with Berlin Balbo's signature fly-by was disallowed. Negotiations were quiet, formal, and coldly officious. Balbo found Stalin "disquieting". The shared history of antagonism and the ongoing proxy war in Spain put a strain on the talks, though the recent history of industrial and economic cooperation [4] allowed for the talks to progress. [...] New trade agreements were conducted and two nations pledged to seek "mutual understanding" on Balkan issues and even agreed to secret discussions over possible German aggression. While far from a formal military understanding it acquainted the two dictators and set the foundation for future discussions which would have more import in the future. [...]

Plans to stop in Bucharest were canceled following growing violence in the capital following outrage over Torquay. This violence would culminate in coming months with Călinescu's assassination, Carol II's abdication, and the rise of an authori-collectivist dictatorship under Ion Antonescu [5] [...] Balbo was very warmly greeted by Admiral Horthy as Balbo's support had helped him reclaim half of Transylvania. [However] Horthy was obviously in the act of playing Balbo and Hitler off of one another and proved mercurial in any assurances. [...] Similar fanfare awaited in Sophia where the reclamation of Dobrudja [and later Balbian promises of Macedonia and Thrace in the event of wars involving Yugoslavia and/or Greece] made Balbo a national hero and cemented Italo-Bulgarian friendship. [...]

The final stop before Rome, Belgrade, met another cordial but frosty reception. The war scare and Dona Manu's ancestral claims in Dalmatia led many in the Yugoslav government to believe that Balbo was hostile to Yugoslavia. [Talks resulted in] an affirmation of the current border and some minor points over trade and shipping, but accomplished little. [...]

When seen as a whole Balbo's first major international diplomatic tour shows an apparent Realpolitik not in keeping with his public image or rhetoric. While many historians have cited Grandi's influence or even hypothesized that Grandi retained more of his Triumvirate power than commonly assumed, the decisions made on the trip are in keeping with Balbo's thoughts on Europe. The accords reached in Paris and London point directly to a deliberate effort to ease tensions and avert the war with the two western powers which Mussolini foresaw as inevitable. Balbo similarly gained tacit acceptance of Italy's conquest of Ethiopia and intervention in Spain while gaining some positive trade concessions. He accomplished this by simply playing to the two power's greatest fear: a resurgent Germany.

His much more controversial agreements with Germany show a completely different strategy: a delaying tactic. It has been theorized that Balbo considered war with Germany inevitable and simply wished to delay Italian involvement as long as possible in order to complete the necessary modernization of the Italian military. Others have theorized a desire to keep his options open while yet another school of thought has Balbo playing all sides against the middle, a larger version of the game being played by Horthy between him and Hitler.

Whatever the real plan (and Balbo's speeches and writings remain mercurial enough to keep the real plan, if there was one, a mystery) the net result was an Italy poised for neutrality in the coming global conflict.

[I]From [U]Warriors, Diplomats, Statesmen, Dictators – the Political and Diplomatic History of Europe in the Twentieth Century, by Dr. Eric Spellman, Harvard University, 1994

************************************************

Note a piè di pagina:

1 – Published after the war ATL and a major ATL original source.

2 – Very much OTL. Chamberlain bent over backwards to appease Mussolini even moreso than with Hitler, perhaps believing that the Axis could be broken. Grandi and later Ciano played him like a harp because of this. ATL he's double-eager to reach accord with Italy.

3 – Yes, Balbo has just cast Poland to the wolves.

4 – OTL. Even under Mussolini Fascist Italy and Stalinist Russia made industrial deals of mutual benefit.

5 – All a year earlier than OTL due to Torquay.

HJ Tulp

April 28th, 2010, 05:08 PM

The final stop before Rome, Sophia, met another cordial but frosty reception. The war scare and Dona Manu's ancestral claims in Dalmatia led many in the Yugoslav government to believe that Balbo was hostile to Yugoslavia. [Talks resulted in] an affirmation of the current border and some minor points over trade and shipping, but accomplished little. [...]

Shouldn't this be Belgrado?

Great updates one and all!

Geekhis Khan

April 28th, 2010, 05:18 PM

Shouldn't this be Belgrado?

Great updates one and all!

Yes, mis-matched my capitals in the edit...:o

joea64

April 28th, 2010, 06:00 PM

I see that Balbo's wisely making use of his international popularity - and that the Nazis and Soviets recognize he's doing that as well, hence their refusal to allow him to overfly Berlin and Moscow, respectively. I really don't see that he could realistically do anything significantly different than what he agreed to concerning Czechoslovakia and Poland; in the first place, Germany's partial absorption and dismemberment of Czechoslovakia is more or less a fait accompli by this point, and in the second place, unless I'm misremembering, Italy has no significant ties to or formal agreements with Poland that would oblige it to come to that country's assistance in event of attack. Balbo's first duty to Italy is to prepare it for the coming war, so overall I think he acted properly. I agree that the wise thing to do when the war does start is to stay neutral as long as possible, though Italy is likely to find itself drawn in eventually. The contacts and agreements with Britain will, I feel sure, prove immensely valuable before too long.

From the hints about "Project Moses", I now conceive it to be in part some sort of arrangement wherein, in part, Italy essentially purchases the freedom of Jews in areas conquered and occupied by Germany, though I'm still not sure where Italy could resettle them. I can certainly see where the part about Italy trading arms, materials, money or whatever for Jewish lives would cause controversy (notwithstanding the fact that such arrangements were made, on considerably smaller scale, OTL on several occasions).

Jimbrock

April 28th, 2010, 06:05 PM

Interesting, shame he didnt stop by Malta though. ;)

Shadow Knight

April 28th, 2010, 06:42 PM

Very interesting GK. He seems to have made excellent use of his time abroad.

Although things seem to have been going his way for a while. I wonder what the next big blow up will be? The good times can't always be rolling if you know what I mean.

Dathi THorfinnsson

April 28th, 2010, 08:08 PM

From the hints about "Project Moses", I now conceive it to be in part some sort of arrangement wherein, in part, Italy essentially purchases the freedom of Jews in areas conquered and occupied by Germany, though I'm still not sure where Italy could resettle them. I can certainly see where the part about Italy trading arms, materials, money or whatever for Jewish lives would cause controversy (notwithstanding the fact that such arrangements were made, on considerably smaller scale, OTL on several occasions).
Err.... 1) why would Balbo 'purchase' Jewish freedom. The Germans wanted to get rid of their Jews in the worst way (and OTL was pretty much the worst way). Balbo might, just might, get Hitler to pay Italy (a token sum) to take the Jews.
2) where to put them? ??? You have a whole mass of non-Italians you don't want to settle in Italy. You have a new colony that needs Italian-loyal settlers deperately.... Actually, you have more than one colony. I WAS assuming Ethiopia, but Balbo might welcome the chance to settle Libya, too.

Geordie

April 28th, 2010, 10:09 PM

Good to see another update. :)

Italo Balbo's whirlwind diplomatic tour of April 1939 was conducted at a time of extreme international tensions.

I wonder how much tension will increase due to 'interests' in Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Greece. Then again, Germany, France and the UK will have put the Balkans on the back burner for a while.

Balbo replied, simply, "time, my friend, time."

Our glorious leader has become quite the pragmatist.

The ensuing conversation... one of Balbo's most controversial programs, and one with reverberations still felt today: Project Moses.

Hmm. Somewhat concerned, somewhat intrigued. I know you've foreshadowed this a few times, but your are keeping the cards remarkably close to your chest!

I have some theories, but following your great example...

I'm not telling! :p

Geekhis Khan

April 29th, 2010, 11:28 AM

I see that Balbo's wisely making use of his international popularity - and that the Nazis and Soviets recognize he's doing that as well, hence their refusal to allow him to overfly Berlin and Moscow, respectively.

That and the fly-overs are a great excuse for aerial espionage.

I really don't see that he could realistically do anything significantly different than what he agreed to concerning Czechoslovakia and Poland; in the first place, Germany's partial absorption and dismemberment of Czechoslovakia is more or less a fait accompli by this point, and in the second place, unless I'm misremembering, Italy has no significant ties to or formal agreements with Poland that would oblige it to come to that country's assistance in event of attack. Balbo's first duty to Italy is to prepare it for the coming war, so overall I think he acted properly. I agree that the wise thing to do when the war does start is to stay neutral as long as possible, though Italy is likely to find itself drawn in eventually. The contacts and agreements with Britain will, I feel sure, prove immensely valuable before too long.Pretty much...the war scare revealed limitations in Italian mobilization. That, combined with direct knowledge of the sheer scale of the German military machine compared with Italy's (seen directly via OTL officer exchanges pre-POD) has led to the reevaluation of readiness. Also worth noting that Hitler's reckless Czech moves have proven to Balbo that war is coming far sooner than when Hitler had assured Mussolini.

From the hints about "Project Moses", I now conceive it to be in part some sort of arrangement wherein, in part, Italy essentially purchases the freedom of Jews in areas conquered and occupied by Germany, though I'm still not sure where Italy could resettle them. I can certainly see where the part about Italy trading arms, materials, money or whatever for Jewish lives would cause controversy (notwithstanding the fact that such arrangements were made, on considerably smaller scale, OTL on several occasions).

Err.... 1) why would Balbo 'purchase' Jewish freedom. The Germans wanted to get rid of their Jews in the worst way (and OTL was pretty much the worst way). Balbo might, just might, get Hitler to pay Italy (a token sum) to take the Jews.
2) where to put them? ??? You have a whole mass of non-Italians you don't want to settle in Italy. You have a new colony that needs Italian-loyal settlers deperately.... Actually, you have more than one colony. I WAS assuming Ethiopia, but Balbo might welcome the chance to settle Libya, too.

Dathi hit the nail on the head here. First, Italy is in need of cash and doesn't have it to spare (this is one reason why Mussie sold much-needed war supplies abroad). Second, well, see Dathi's points.

Interesting, shame he didnt stop by Malta though. ;)

Yea, because arousing pro-Italian fervor in a disputed British Dominion is a great way to win the hearts and minds of the British people when you're seeking accord with London! :p

Very interesting GK. He seems to have made excellent use of his time abroad.

Although things seem to have been going his way for a while. I wonder what the next big blow up will be? The good times can't always be rolling if you know what I mean.

"Good times"? Since the POD Italy has lost it's Duce, nearly collapsed into civil war, been paralyzed by inter-government squabbles, barely averted a disastrous war, and is now fighting to stay afloat politically, diplomatically, and economically while the European order collapses around them. If these are the "good times"... :p

But I think I know what you mean...Balbo's streak of luck won't last forever.

Good to see another update. :)

Thanks! :)

I wonder how much tension will increase due to 'interests' in Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Greece. Then again, Germany, France and the UK will have put the Balkans on the back burner for a while.Stay tuned...;)

Our glorious leader has become quite the pragmatist.Always was. Despite his public image he was very much a political pragmatist. He joined the Fascists pretty much out of sheer political pragmatism: they were the growing force and he jumped on the bandwagon...a "Fascist of the second hour". The myth says that, upon first seeing the Blackshirts, said, "who pays them?" Despite his Germanophobia he very warmly received Nazi dignitaries and was a friend of Goering's (though he did like to tweak Goering's tail by inviting his Jewish friends to Goering's state dinner, frex :D).

Hmm. Somewhat concerned, somewhat intrigued. I know you've foreshadowed this a few times, but your are keeping the cards remarkably close to your chest!

I have some theories, but following your great example...

I'm not telling! :pAll in good time...:cool:

Blitzhund

April 29th, 2010, 03:11 PM

Geekhis,

Must say that so far, this is the most enjoyable AH that I've read on this site. Your research and writing style is excellent.

I look forward to the continuation of the Viva Balbo! TL.

-Blitz

Geekhis Khan

April 29th, 2010, 04:11 PM

Jimbrock

April 29th, 2010, 04:30 PM

Yea, because arousing pro-Italian fervor in a disputed British Dominion is a great way to win the hearts and minds of the British people when you're seeking accord with London! :p

Yes, it would be typically Italian. ;)
And Dominion? I think you mean complete opressed colony?

Geekhis Khan

April 29th, 2010, 04:36 PM

Yes, it would be typically Italian. ;)
And Dominion? I think you mean complete opressed colony?

;).....................................

joea64

April 29th, 2010, 04:58 PM

;).....................................

*raises eyebrow* Just what have you got planned for Malta?

Rakhasa

April 29th, 2010, 05:49 PM

Ah, politics. Battles are cool and all that, but I must confess than I vastly prefer political soap operas (still, as Dr Strangelove said on his own TL, it's not WWII without titanic tank battles on the steppes, so start planing is you haven't done yet! :D)

With that last update I really think you shoutl reconsider your spanish position (wich was similat to OTL if I recall correctly). Franco not only should like (if that word can be used on international leader's relationships) Balbo more than Hitler, he owes him more help than OTL. It migh even help him to end the war ahead on schedule, and keep the nation in (slightly) better shape.

Spain still probably will be too broken to really help any faction, but it should be "neutral" on Italy's side -at the very least, the two main helps Franco gave the Axis, tungsten and the Division Azul volunteers, should go to the italian-russian front.

And it looks quite unlikely than Spain will be so isolated on the postwar with fascist Italy so close...

Geekhis Khan

April 29th, 2010, 06:15 PM

*raises eyebrow* Just what have you got planned for Malta?

:D

Ah, politics. Battles are cool and all that, but I must confess than I vastly prefer political soap operas (still, as Dr Strangelove said on his own TL, it's not WWII without titanic tank battles on the steppes, so start planing is you haven't done yet! :D)

With that last update I really think you shoutl reconsider your spanish position (wich was similat to OTL if I recall correctly). Franco not only should like (if that word can be used on international leader's relationships) Balbo more than Hitler, he owes him more help than OTL. It migh even help him to end the war ahead on schedule, and keep the nation in (slightly) better shape.

Spain still probably will be too broken to really help any faction, but it should be "neutral" on Italy's side -at the very least, the two main helps Franco gave the Axis, tungsten and the Division Azul volunteers, should go to the italian-russian front.

And it looks quite unlikely than Spain will be so isolated on the postwar with fascist Italy so close...

Yes, plenty of politics and art and such so far, though there will be blood soon enough. :cool:

On Spain, I'm not sure where you're driving at on "reconsideration" or why Franco could win "earlier" ATL; I would assume later since his foreign allies are divided. Fully admitting my very limited knowledge of the SCW I assumed that Franco is still happy to accept any help he can get, German, Italian, or otherwise. While he'll certainly be more attuned to Italy/Balbo I see him sitting on the fence in that dispute and siding with the winner. But I'm open to suggestions there.

joea64

April 29th, 2010, 06:31 PM

:D

Yes, plenty of politics and art and such so far, though there will be blood soon enough. :cool:

On Spain, I'm not sure where you're driving at on "reconsideration" or why Franco could win "earlier" ATL; I would assume later since his foreign allies are divided. Fully admitting my very limited knowledge of the SCW I assumed that Franco is still happy to accept any help he can get, German, Italian, or otherwise. While he'll certainly be more attuned to Italy/Balbo I see him sitting on the fence in that dispute and siding with the winner. But I'm open to suggestions there.

IIRC, OTL at this point (April 1939) Franco was close to taking Madrid, or had already done so. Let me look this up here...OK, Madrid fell in March and the Republicans surrendered unconditionally in April. I assume that TTL Madrid and several other Republican bastions are still holding out, but that the Nationalists are getting pretty close to victory even though their primary foreign supporters are at odds.

Geordie

April 29th, 2010, 07:19 PM

Stay tuned...;)

No fear on that one. :)

"Fascist of the second hour"

Nice phrase...

(though he did like to tweak Goering's tail by inviting his Jewish friends to Goering's state dinner, frex :D).

That's our boy! :D

All in good time...:cool:

You tease!

Pellegrino Shots

May 2nd, 2010, 08:10 PM

I just won a few auctions on ebay for some great pictures of Balbo, as soon as they come in I'll post them so they can be used in future post. Unfortunatly I didn't win on this GREAT picture of Balbo with the King...

http://i.ebayimg.com/07/!Brv5dewCGk~$(KGrHqYH-C4EvEtL-5yEBL1FrZ)-8!~~_35.JPG

Pellegrino Shots

May 3rd, 2010, 02:37 AM

I messed around on Photoshop with that last photo, the EBAY on the pic was really bugging me and I really think it would be a great addition to this post (damn you ladiezman420, why did you have to outbid me!). Here is a Life Magazine on Balbo with the King, perhaps under the headline "Who is flying Italy now?"

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7094/balbolife.jpg

Geekhis Khan

May 3rd, 2010, 11:35 AM

IIRC, OTL at this point (April 1939) Franco was close to taking Madrid, or had already done so. Let me look this up here...OK, Madrid fell in March and the Republicans surrendered unconditionally in April. I assume that TTL Madrid and several other Republican bastions are still holding out, but that the Nationalists are getting pretty close to victory even though their primary foreign supporters are at odds.

I basically have Madrid falling a few weeks later owing to the internal difficulties of the foreign interventionists and the Italian soldier's distractions by the political problems at home. While the rivalry between Condor and the Italian vols has spurred some aggressive daring to outdo each other, this has led to both successes and failures not there OTL that effectively cancel. My current gut feeling is slightly behind schedule, but still Franco victory as France and Britain are still resisting intervention in an effort to appease Italy.

But as the SCW is really not my area by any stretch I'm open to alternative views. Where's Dr. Strangelove?

Nice phrase...

OTL phrase, actually...the first Fascists that were there from the beginning called themselves the "Fascists of the First Hour" as a way of elevating themselves over bandwagon "Second Hour" people like Balbo.

I just won a few auctions on ebay for some great pictures of Balbo, as soon as they come in I'll post them so they can be used in future post. Unfortunatly I didn't win on this GREAT picture of Balbo with the King...

I messed around on Photoshop with that last photo, the EBAY on the pic was really bugging me and I really think it would be a great addition to this post (damn you ladiezman420, why did you have to outbid me!). Here is a Life Magazine on Balbo with the King, perhaps under the headline "Who is flying Italy now?"

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7094/balbolife.jpg

Nice pics! Thanks for the effort...and I seriously hope you aren't spending your hard-earned cash for my sake. ;)

Rakhasa

May 3rd, 2010, 04:16 PM

Pellegrino Shots

May 9th, 2010, 09:41 PM

A great photo of Balbo with Marshal Badoglio and Gen. Teruzzi

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6619/balbo1.jpg

Shadow Knight

May 10th, 2010, 01:28 AM

A great photo of Balbo with Marshal Badoglio and Gen. Teruzzi

Is it just me or are their faces telling an interesting story at what they are looking at.

From Left to Right:

"Now that's some amusing shit!"

Balbo: "What...the...fuck...???"

"Is that what I think that is...?"

Pellegrino Shots

May 10th, 2010, 06:04 PM

Is it just me or are their faces telling an interesting story at what they are looking at.

From Left to Right:

"Now that's some amusing shit!"

Balbo: "What...the...fuck...???"

"Is that what I think that is...?"

That is funny stuff Shadow, I am definatly curious to see how this shot gets incorperated into the TL now

Pellegrino Shots

May 10th, 2010, 08:34 PM

Perhaps that can be the picture of Balbo reviewing Italy's military readiness...

Pellegrino Shots

May 10th, 2010, 08:42 PM

From 1933, Balbo at the Chicago's world fair...

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8073/balbo2.jpg

Pellegrino Shots

May 10th, 2010, 08:43 PM

Balbo in 1940

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/8083/balbo3.jpg

Pellegrino Shots

May 10th, 2010, 08:46 PM

Balbo at the Stevens Hotel in 1933 (Chicago)

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8306/balbo5.jpg

Pellegrino Shots

May 10th, 2010, 08:58 PM

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3686/balbo7.jpg

Pellegrino Shots

May 10th, 2010, 09:00 PM

Another picture of Balbo with the King...

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3023/balbo8.jpg

Pellegrino Shots

May 10th, 2010, 10:38 PM

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3165/balbo9b.jpg

Pellegrino Shots

May 10th, 2010, 10:44 PM

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9379/balbo10.jpg

Pellegrino Shots

May 10th, 2010, 10:47 PM

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2658/balbo9c.jpg

Whanztastic

May 10th, 2010, 10:57 PM

Dude, we appreciate all the photos but you have to stop spamming and bumping the thread. Maybe collect them and post them all at once? Not trying to be an ass, but every time I see this thread has a new post and it turns out to be another photo, it is kinda a bummer.

Geekhis Khan

May 10th, 2010, 11:53 PM

Pellegrino, thanks again for the great photos, but I have to agree with whanztastic. If you could post them all in a single post that'd be awesome. Thanks! :)

Another update is coming, folks. That cruel bitch Real Life has struck again and I'm up to my ass in alligators. I'll post as soon as RL allows. Thanks again, all!

Geekhis Khan

May 25th, 2010, 01:03 PM

The fiasco of the mobilization was a harsh wake-up call to an Italian war machine which had rested on bluff and bravado for two decades. Despite General Pariani's optimistic readiness assessments and glowing reports of the process the army had with a few notably exceptions been slow and clumsy to mobilize and redeploy. Logistics and supply had been woefully inadequate and poorly organized. Many soldiers arrived without boots, food, or ammunition. Coordination between the branches had been nonexistent with the Aeronautica deploying to forward bases totally unsupported by and nonsupporting of the army. [...]

Executive minister Balbo requested a full report on the mobilization from Marshal Badoglio. The report was dreadful and damning. Despite Pariani's assurance that the army was already approaching seventy ready divisions with thirty eight at full strength, Badoglio's report found only nine complete.Twenty-five suffered major shortages of of equipment, thirty-seven were incomplete, and another twenty-four had not even been constituted. Pariani's beloved new Binaria divisions, despite being designed for maximum firepower and mobility, had less artillery than a standard French or German division. The army was short of weapons, ammunition, and fuels stores. Badoglio's report went even further and the Marshal personally calculated fuel stores and operational estimates: most units in most potential theaters had only two to four months worth of fuel stores. The Aeronautica had only about three hundred pilots and only enough fuel for two months. The navy had 2 battleships, 20 cruisers, 59 destroyers, 130 torpedo and MAS boats, and 100 submarines. The four battleships under construction would in theory be ready by 1940, but that ignored equipping and staffing them. [1]

The Supreme Council of Fascism met this news with near panic. They had been assured by their generals that all was proceeding according to Mussolini's grand scheme. Worse yet, these deficiencies had begun years before, representing a systemic weakness predating the assassination. What Badoglio had presented them was a paper army, an inadequate air force, and a navy unable to stand up against the French, none the less the British. [...] A complete overhaul of the military was in order.

Balbo's first major action in the military reorganization was to reward Badoglio for his researched and honest assessment by giving him exactly what he had asked for: the title of Commandante Superiore delle forze armata, a position with a deputy, and office with twelve divisions and its own intelligence and cipher sections, and jurisdiction over all branches of the service. In name Badoglio had been named supreme commander in chief of the armed forces and given authority equivalent to a minister. In reality, he answered directly to Balbo as much as to the king. While Badoglio's report had been worthwhile, it was not lost on Balbo or Grandi that this system had perpetuated under Badoglio's leadership. Further limiting Badoglio's political "coup", his rival Cavallero was promoted to Marshal and assigned his old post as Capo di stato maggiore generale, soon renamed Commando Supremo, a position which also answered directly to Balbo rather than Badoglio, despite the fact that Badoglio officially outranked and commanded Cavallero. Balbo went further, meeting (or indeed conspiring) with SIM and OVRA to populate Badoglio's intelligence section with agents loyal to Balbo. A similar measure was taken to infiltrate the Commando Supremo.

The new command scheme was a diabolically organized system of checks and balances designed such that both Badoglio and Cavallero independently reported to Balbo, with accompanying SIM reports to check their facts. Balbo, learning well from Mussolini's methodology, used this built-in rivalry to contain both men's ambitions and attentions. Hoping to prevent bureaucratic gridlock caused by duplication of effort, however, Balbo assigned Cavallero and Commando Supremo with the task of tactically and strategically integrating the three branches and the various logistical elements while Badoglio was assigned the overall strategic and logistical planning efforts...and as someone in agreement with Balbo that Germany was the greater threat to Italian safety, Balbo could be assured that the strategy would be to his political liking. In a final political coup, Balbo secretly gave Badoglio the authority to check up on the tactical and strategic readiness of the military behind Cavallero's and Commando Supremo's back, thereby making the Commandante Superiore his own personal Inspector General. [...]

Heads would roll farther down the chain of command. Most notable was the firing of General Pariani, replaced by his predecessor and former mentor Baistroichi. As a modernizer, Baistroichi would continue the mechanization and motorization plans for the Regio Escercito he had initiated and Pariani had continued. Baistroichi, whom Mussolini had fired due to the general's overly frank analysis of Mussolini's war plans against the western allies, would continue to build up the Army of the Po's Arete and Saggitario Mechanized divisions and continue the push towards the binaria organization. Baistroichi's futurist mentality and strategic assessments (which favored avoiding a war with the British) meshed well with Balbo's beliefs. Balbo gave him permission to continue the transition to the binaria, but at a slower pace than the general had planned. "First we must get the room in order," Balbo reportedly told Baistroichi, "then we can redesign for efficiency."

The Regia Marina, not a service that fit too directly into Balbo's foreseen continental war, was left in the hands of Cavagneri, though Balbo planned to more directly investigate naval readiness on his coming barracks tour. Balbo's old command, the Regio Aeronautica, would not get off so easily. General Valle, never one of Balbo's men to begin with, was removed from office and not replaced. Instead, Balbo took personal charge as "temporary acting head" of the service. This position would last until he could purge the branch of his old rivals and reinstate most of his old cronies. Balbo planned a massive overhaul and dove into the task with needless attention to detail and flagrant micromanagement that diverted much of his attention from more pressing projects, like the overall reorganization and the crippling raw material deficiencies. [...]

With the top-down reorganization initiated, Balbo, accompanied by Badoglio and Cavallero, set out on a whirlwind tour of the barracks and bases of the three branches of the military, and the factories and port facilities that supported them. This tour would reveal even further the inadequacies of the armed forces and the lack of readiness of the Italian war machine and set in motion a massive top-to-bottom overhaul...one possibly too late with war clouds looming over Danzig

From Roman Eagle, the Biography of Italo Balbo [I]by Giuseppe Bosco, PhD., Professor of History at the University of Illinois, Chicago.

************************************************

Note a piè di pagina:

1 – All the numbers in this paragraph are slightly worse than OTL numbers based on Badoglio's November 1940 report to Mussolini. The interregnum has made the military situation even more chaotic than OTL.

Guilherme Loureiro

May 25th, 2010, 01:53 PM

Balbo gave him permission to continue the transition to the binaria, but at a slower pace than the general had planned. "First we must get the room in order," Balbo reportedly told Baistroichi, "then we can redesign for efficiency."

These binaria would be the two-regiment divisions the Italians were setting up(replacing the three-regiment divisional TOE), right? What little I've read of them says these were too small to be effective. What was the purpose of setting them up? The only reason I can think of is to improve coordination by reducing the number of combat men, but keeping the command staff the same.

joea64

May 25th, 2010, 02:05 PM

At a guess, I'd say one reason for those so-called "binary" divisions was to inflate the number of divisions for prestige/propaganda purposes, while saving money on actually raising new regiments. It does seem rather surprising that for somebody whose rhetoric was so bellicose, Mussolini actually appears to have spent so little effort on actually getting his military ready for war.

Geekhis Khan

May 25th, 2010, 02:17 PM

These binaria would be the two-regiment divisions the Italians were setting up(replacing the three-regiment divisional TOE), right? What little I've read of them says these were too small to be effective. What was the purpose of setting them up? The only reason I can think of is to improve coordination by reducing the number of combat men, but keeping the command staff the same.

At a guess, I'd say one reason for those so-called "binary" divisions was to inflate the number of divisions for prestige/propaganda purposes, while saving money on actually raising new regiments. It does seem rather surprising that for somebody whose rhetoric was so bellicose, Mussolini actually appears to have spent so little effort on actually getting his military ready for war.

Yes, the Binaria were the two-regiment divisions. The theory on the Binaria was that they'd be operationally more flexible while man-for-man more heavily armed. As you supposed, Guilherme, part of it was to streamline command structures. And as joea points out larger on-paper force for less cost. They would consist of Mechanized armor units, motorized and motor-transportable infantry, "mobile" artillery support, and Celeri cavalry (basically bicycle-transported "dragoons" backed by Bersaglieri rangers and Arditi storm troopers).

In OTL they failed miserably for being woefully underpowered and lacking necessary artillery support. But Balbo and company don't know that yet. ;)

maverick

May 25th, 2010, 04:35 PM

And the military reorganization comes...probably too little too late.

lounge60

May 25th, 2010, 04:45 PM

Another picture of Balbo with the King...

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3023/balbo8.jpg
Is not the King.
Vittorio Emanuele III was a very short man.:D
This is the Duke of Aosta or Umberto Prince of Piedmont..

Jimbrock

May 25th, 2010, 06:08 PM

Belated, but maybe just enough to get the military back on track. When I say back, I dont actually mean that it was on track before, but...:p

Geekhis Khan

June 7th, 2010, 04:23 PM

June of 1939 saw an emergency meeting of the Fascist High Council to discuss strategic and materials considerations. [...] The reports were poor: Badoglio's report on the readiness of the military [was damning while] General Carlo Favagrossa of COGEFAG [raw materials command] presented a heated report on the raw material deficiencies [of the State].

The War Ministry, in order to equip Pariani's 60 divisions, required over 790,000 tons of iron, 60,000 tons of copper, 20,000 tons of zinc, 12,000 tons of lead, 15,000 tons of aluminum, and huge amounts of wool, cotton, timber, cement, coal, and petroleum. Required defensive works on the Alpine front would require almost 1800 defensive works and over a million and a half tons of cement. [...] General Favagrossa couldn't promise even half this amount in peace time. War time usage exacerbated by trade limitations and blockade(s), would strain this further. [...] Simply put, Favagrossa could not promise the raw materials necessary to conduct a war even if bankrupting the nation for the necessary goods. [1]

[...]

In the summer of 1939 Balbo set out on his whirlwind tour of the Italian military. Hopping from base to base in his inveterate SM.79 I-MANU, his appearances were met by pomp and celebration. This celebration rarely persisted among the base command after the fact, however, as Balbo, backed up by Badoglio and Cavallero, castigated the base command for any lack of readiness, lax discipline or morale, or inadequacies of one form or another.

The Three Marshals, as they became somewhat disparagingly known, proceeded in a typically Balbian fashion of poking into detail, micromanaging niggling concerns, and ignoring the proprieties of chain of command to talk to even the lowliest soldiers about conditions, though this latter deeply grated at Badoglio's traditional Savoian sense of propriety. In this way the three learned of maintenance deficiencies, armament and armor weaknesses, including severe structural limitations and vulnerabilities in tank plating. [...]

One of the few commands to receive a positive review was the Army of the Po. Baistroichi's and Pariani's baby, its divisions had received the best equipment, the best personnel, and the best training. Morale was high and readiness a step above the average. Balbo was duly impressed by the Army of the Po, notably by its Ariete and Centauro mechanized divisions. Balbo was pleased a the apparent readiness of the group, though field reports from Spain highlighted the vulnerabilities and inadequacies of the L3 light tanks. Though assured by Baistroichi that the M11and coming L6 and M13 would alleviate the deficiencies seen in Spain, hearing such a different story from the soldiers than he'd heard from his commanders fed his growing suspicions about Italian military readiness [2].

The severe lack of modern artillery and antiaircraft defense was another major concern. While the Italian 76mm field gun was appearing in close to adequate numbers, the army was severely lacking in 149mm and 210mm heavy guns. And while tests on the 90mm antiaircraft gun showed a huge potential, numbers too were far below needed for proper defense of the Alpine frontier, none the less the coastline. [...] Visits to the Alpine frontier were mixed: on one hand the morale and readiness of the Alpini and Celeri forces was possibly the best in Italy. On the other hand fortifications were far behind schedule and necessary cement was in short supply. In one brief meeting with 3rd Celeri Division commander General Giovanni Messe, a decorated veteran soon to make a name for himself but at the time a skilled but not notable commander, Balbo was introduced first hand to the disparity in arms and armor to the German machine while visiting the Brenner Pass. [...]

Apocryphal legend persists that this was the moment when Balbo "discovered" Messe, with the story going that the two had long conversations over wine about their old days together fighting with the Arditi on Monte Grappa (though there's little evidence that Messe, then commander of the IX Nono Reparto Arditi had more than a passing knowledge of then-sergeant Balbo). The truth, as best as records can confirm it, is far less interesting: the two spoke in official capacity over the course of an afternoon and Balbo's Diary makes little note of the visit beyond the overarching strategic concerns of the moment. [...]

The tour of the army netted notable, but worrisome results. The army was deficient in most areas. It lacked the auto transport necessary to take advantage of the mobile doctrine developed under Baistroichi and Pariani. It lacked sufficient and modern artillery. It lacked radios and modern command and control. It lacked ammo and basic equipment.It lacked training and discipline. Morale was lacking due to a sharp disparity in quality of life between the soldiers and the top heavy officer corps. The much-vaunted armor was insufficient and had suffered in Spain against more advanced Soviet designs.

What to do about these deficiencies was less clear. Italy simply did not have the industrial output or raw material sources to cover every aspect. Cuts had to be made, but there was no clear view of where. Baistroichi promised a good return for investment on his new binaria, but Badoglio was openly hostile to the untested new organization. Compounding matters was the constant cycle of mobilization-demobilization of the various reserve forces. Italy was soon to be in a forza minima (minimum number of mobilized troops) and the costs of the standing army, when compounded with the costs of maintaining order in insurgency-plagued Ethiopia, was draining the coffers.

Badoglio once again proposed a wholly defensive strategy, shelving any major binaria/motorization conversions for a more traditional force backed by artillery and in-depth fortifications. Baistroichi continued to push for a mobile armored binaria force. Cavallero waffled, seeming to support both sides at once. [...]

In the end Balbo, in the same manner in which he played both the strategic Douhetist and tactical Mecozzian while Air Minister, chose a middle path. The Army of the Po would continue to be modernized in the Baistroichian manner with new model medium tanks as a primary "mobility, interdiction, and counterstrike force" while the main army as a whole would remain on more traditional footing to be motorized as the number of vehicles allowed. Celeri units would continue to be upgraded and equipped with more modern L6 tanks, and M11 or M13 where they could be spared. Resources would be put towards artillery acquisition (including 90mm antiaircraft artillery to be manned by MVSN irregulars) and supply stockpiles. Estimates predicted the goal of sufficient readiness with a six-to-twelve month stockpile of strategic supplies could be achieved in a minimum of three years and a maximum of seven.

With the goals of the army apparently in order, Balbo turned his attentions to the navy.

From Roman Eagle, the Biography of Italo Balbo by Giuseppe Bosco, PhD., Professor of History at the University of Illinois, Chicago.

************************************************

Note a piè di pagina:

1 – All the numbers in this paragraph adapted from the OTL GOGEFAG report to Mussolini in spring of 1940. Numbers were generalized to account for various "Butterflies" in accounting, time frame, and politically-induced shifts. Note that ATL Italy has one more year of notice over OTL. Note also OTL Mussolini seriously downplayed and ignored Badoglio's and Favagrossa's reports in a fit of pure gross negligence, certain that (to quote Dr. Gooch) "he could solve the pressing problems of scarce resources simply by imposing an order of priorities on the system."

2 – His own flagrant needs-inflation and budget-mongering as Air Minister no doubt fed this as well.

mailinutile2

June 7th, 2010, 05:03 PM

Dear Author,
very good update.
a few notes:
required over 790,000 tons of iron, 60,000 tons of copper, 20,000 tons of zinc, 12,000 tons of lead, 15,000 tons of aluminum, and huge amounts of wool, cotton, timber, cement, coal, and petroleum.
The Molybdenum List rings a bell here :D
Who's the foreign minister?

however, as Balbo, backed up by Badoglio and Cavallero ... , proceeded in a typically Balbian fashion of poking into detail, micromanaging niggling concerns, and ignoring the proprieties of chain of command to talk to even the lowliest soldiers about conditions, though this latter deeply grated at Badoglio's traditional Savoian sense of propriety. In this way the three learned of maintenance deficiencies, armament and armor weaknesses, including severe structural limitations and vulnerabilities in tank plating.
Really, Badoglio was an utter incompetent unable to find his own ass with both hands and the aid of an atlas.
Also despised by the army because heavily involved in (and largely responsible for) Caporetto.
I'd suggest De Bono, Bastico, Caviglia, Gambara, maybe even Graziani.

One of the few commands to receive a positive review was the Army of the Po. Baistroichi's and Pariani's baby
...
Baistrocchi

field reports from Spain highlighted the vulnerabilities and inadequacies of the L3 light tanks. Though assured by Baistroichi that the M11and coming L6 and M13 would alleviate the deficiencies seen in Spain

In developing this point do not underestimate pressures by the economical block.
L3, L6 M11 and M13 were produced by Ansaldo and FIAT, which had a HUGE leverage on the government (FIAT still has today), thus being able to have scadent (thus cheaper to manufacture) design approved

In one brief meeting with 3rd Celeri Division commander General Giovanni Messe, a decorated veteran soon to make a name for himself
Probably the best operational commander in the army :D

Geekhis Khan

June 7th, 2010, 06:28 PM

Dear Author,
very good update.

Thanks! And thanks for the input!

The Molybdenum List rings a bell here :D
Who's the foreign minister?

Not sure what you mean on the Molybdenum List. Could you elaborate?

The Foreign Minister is Grandi.

Really, Badoglio was an utter incompetent unable to find his own ass with both hands and the aid of an atlas.
Also despised by the army because heavily involved in (and largely responsible for) Caporetto.
I'd suggest De Bono, Bastico, Caviglia, Gambara, maybe even Graziani.

Fully agree on Badoglio, but remember: 1) politics plays a major part in the decision; Badolgio's still the "hero of Ethiopia" (:rolleyes:), still has the king's ear and he usefully shares Balbo's Germanophobia, 2) Balbo doesn't have our hindsight, and 3) notice his "promotion" effectively gets him out of the day-to-day tactical concerns and occupies him in a de facto inspector general job keeping tabs on Cavallero. Much easier to promote him out of the way. Besides, he did deliver (OTL as well as ATL) a good report on how bad the military situation was, regardless of how much of the responsibility for this was his. Mussie didn't listen OTL.

De Bono's not all that much (if any) better and recall at the moment he's employed as "Capo de Governo" (though in name only), and recall that Balbo considered him an "old fool". Cavallero isn't too much use himself, but better than Badoglio. Bastico, Caviglia, and Gambara are still low on the political horizon compared to Cavallero (and therefore harder to promote in peacetime), but may see promotion later. Graziani's another political rival and currently much better used (in Balbo's mind) as governor of Ethiopia. I'll get to more on that and him later. Baistrocchi (thanks...what I get for typing from memory ;)) serves a good purpose here as a modernizer and as a counterbalance to Badoglio.

In developing this point do not underestimate pressures by the economical block.
L3, L6 M11 and M13 were produced by Ansaldo and FIAT, which had a HUGE leverage on the government (FIAT still has today), thus being able to have scadent (thus cheaper to manufacture) design approved

Not underestimating it at all. Also not forgetting that Cavallero is a former Ansaldo president and totally in Ansaldo's pocket...sort of like Cheney and Haliburton. Yea, Balbo ain't dodging that one. Italy's buying L6 and M11-15 tanks whether it wants them or not.

Probably the best operational commander in the army :D
;) May have mentioned him for a reason...

abc123

June 7th, 2010, 07:15 PM

[QUOTE=Geekhis Khan;3367712]

Not sure what you mean on the Molybdenum List. Could you elaborate?

[QUOTE]

Mobyldenum List or aka Manganese List is a list of material demands wich Mussolini sent to Hitler, as a prerequisite for italian entry into war on German's side...
I beginned with Manganese...
Sizes of coal, iron, oil, manganese, rubber were incredible, even if Germany has had all that material, combined Reichsbahn and italian railways coud not transport that materialin Italy in about 10- 20 years...:rolleyes:

Hitler's responce was: "Maybe is better for all that Italy stay out of war".
:D

Geekhis Khan

June 7th, 2010, 07:51 PM

Mobyldenum List or aka Manganese List is a list of material demands wich Mussolini sent to Hitler, as a prerequisite for italian entry into war on German's side...
I beginned with Manganese...
Sizes of coal, iron, oil, manganese, rubber were incredible, even if Germany has had all that material, combined Reichsbahn and italian railways coud not transport that materialin Italy in about 10- 20 years...:rolleyes:

Hitler's responce was: "Maybe is better for all that Italy stay out of war".
:D

Ok, never heard it referred to as such, thanks, abc123!

mailinutile2

June 7th, 2010, 08:30 PM

Ok, never heard it referred to as such, thanks, abc123!

The funny part is that they asked for a lot of molybdenum (thus the name).
Nobody in the italian commeettee chosen to write the list had the foggiest idea of molybdenum was for (it was used to make light bulbs), but they asked a LOT of it.
And when I say a LOT I mean (literally): more than the quantity estimated to exist on planet earth. :D
Add a lot of coal and iron, the fact that nobody wanted to go to war (apart from M, and he was not the one writing the list, while anti-war Ciano was) and the shark instinct to squeeze out everything that is possible from a "all you can take, gratis" situation, and you have a request of material for 27,000 trains, 100 wagons each :D.
To be given , pronto :D

joea64

June 7th, 2010, 09:24 PM

Good update, as always. What comes to my mind when reading over this is that Balbo, at least, is acting a lot more realistically than Mussolini; at any rate he knows just how badly off Italy is on the ground. If I were him I wouldn't waste a great deal of time and scarce funds on the navy, except perhaps to boost the naval special warfare (frogmen) capability as far as possible; OTL, Italian NSW troops were the world's class and the US Navy learned a great deal from Italy's experience in training its own UDT frogmen. Overall, it does seem that when war does come, as badly underprepared as Italy will be, it'll still be far readier than OTL.

Archangel

June 8th, 2010, 01:24 AM

The Army of the PO could serve as a sort of rapid response force if there's the need in a minor war or to try to discourage Germany from attacking Italy (it is well positioned).

Amartus

June 8th, 2010, 04:19 AM

The work by Dr. Gooch that you are referring to here is Mussolini and his generals : the armed forces and fascist foreign policy, 1922-1940?

Having read that, it is amazing in OTL that the Italians performed as well as they did, as opposed to comments regarding how badly they performed!

ferrosol

June 8th, 2010, 09:32 AM

Geekhis Khan

June 8th, 2010, 11:07 AM

The funny part is that they asked for a lot of molybdenum (thus the name).
Nobody in the italian commeettee chosen to write the list had the foggiest idea of molybdenum was for (it was used to make light bulbs), but they asked a LOT of it.
And when I say a LOT I mean (literally): more than the quantity estimated to exist on planet earth. :D
Add a lot of coal and iron, the fact that nobody wanted to go to war (apart from M, and he was not the one writing the list, while anti-war Ciano was) and the shark instinct to squeeze out everything that is possible from a "all you can take, gratis" situation, and you have a request of material for 27,000 trains, 100 wagons each :D.
To be given , pronto :D

LOL, nice try, Ciano! :D

Good update, as always. What comes to my mind when reading over this is that Balbo, at least, is acting a lot more realistically than Mussolini; at any rate he knows just how badly off Italy is on the ground. If I were him I wouldn't waste a great deal of time and scarce funds on the navy, except perhaps to boost the naval special warfare (frogmen) capability as far as possible; OTL, Italian NSW troops were the world's class and the US Navy learned a great deal from Italy's experience in training its own UDT frogmen. Overall, it does seem that when war does come, as badly underprepared as Italy will be, it'll still be far readier than OTL.

Yep, Balbo's got a better clue than Mussie here, but the odds are still stacked very heavy against him in more ways than one.

As for the Decima MAS...stay tuned. They may show up sooner than you think...much sooner. ;)

The Army of the PO could serve as a sort of rapid response force if there's the need in a minor war or to try to discourage Germany from attacking Italy (it is well positioned).

That's the theory.

The work by Dr. Gooch that you are referring to here is Mussolini and his generals : the armed forces and fascist foreign policy, 1922-1940?

Having read that, it is amazing in OTL that the Italians performed as well as they did, as opposed to comments regarding how badly they performed!

That's the book. And yes, they did fairly well considering. Had they more realistic leaders or at least a focused strategy they could have caused the allies all sorts of heartaches in the Med.

I'd also recommend MacGregor Knox's books Hitler's Italian Allies and Mussolini's War for direct notes on Italy's war machine, capabilities, and severe handicaps. As a bonus they're more readable than Gooch though not as finely-detailed.

Yeah Balbo seems a lot closer to reality than Mussolini. Whether that will be enough to compensate for Italy's industrial weakness or not during the war is another question. Oh and great update Geekhis.

Thanks, and stay tuned! :)

Geekhis Khan

June 8th, 2010, 02:20 PM

The Three Marshals' tour of navy facilities was notably more relaxed than the army tour. The ships were neat, trimmed, squared away, and the crew ready and exuberant. Admiral Domenico Cavagnari was generally praised for his work in keeping a sharp fleet with high morale and readiness [1].

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/thumb/7/70/Cavagnariemussolini.jpg/200px-Cavagnariemussolini.jpg
Cavagnari with Mussolini in 1937 only weeks before the assassination

What the Marshals did not see under this facade was a plethora of maintenance and training issues that needed to be resolved. [Nor did they note] the huge stockpiles of fuel at levels for operation far above the sister services [and] huge deficiencies of ammunition that made the navy a paper tiger. Also not addressed were the myriad technical deficiencies in armament and spotting technology. While most other nations had developed radar systems for their ships Italy, ironically one of the early forerunners in radar technology, had none. [...]

New developments in the navy were set to further limit its actual offensive capability. With four new battleships set to splash down the following year the navy was, counter intuitively, about to find itself less ready for general war. The new ships demanded two independent battle groups and there were not enough support vessels to go around. Ironically in order to protect the new capital ships any hope for deploying the cruiser and destroyer fleets in independent action was lost and the navy would have to pull back to Italian waters, losing forward force projection capability. [...]

Cavagnari, however, didn't pass up the opportunity of the visits to press his agenda for more funding. When Balbo indicated that that was not in the cards Cavagnari demanded that greater assistance was needed from the air force, in that case, noting that the air force didn't even have workable air-dropped torpedoes. Balbo agreed to look into it. [...]

Of all his encounters with the navy personnel, one incident stood out enough for Balbo to make special and detailed mention of it in his diary. While at the base in San Lepoldo Balbo encountered a curious device. When he asked about it he was told it was a manned torpedo, nicknamed the "Maiale" (pig), intended for delivering frogmen for special operations against enemy ships. Fascinated by the concept, which struck a chord with his sense of individual daring and adventure, a giddy Balbo was introduced to Major Teseo Tesei, one of the main designers of the Maiale, and later to Commander Paolo Aloisi, head of the new 1ª Flottiglia Mezzi d'Assalto (First Assault Vehicle Flotilla). Absolutely enthralled with the Flotilla, the frogmen, and the Maiale torpedoes, which evoked in Balbo memories of his childhood adventure stories, Balbo regaled the new flotilla and its "brave Neptunian warriors of the sea", congratulating Cavagnari on his continued development of the group. Balbo "look[ed] forward" to following their progress and immediately mused on the potential for air delivery of the teams and Maiales. Cavagnari, who looked down on the group as undeserving of his attentions when compared with the main traditional fleet, was forced to swallow his pride and accept the Executive Minister's "permission" to further develop unconventional capabilities. [...]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Maiale_at_gosport.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Teseo_Tesei.jpg
The Maiale manned torpedo and Major Teseo Tesei

It has been argued that Balbo and Badoglio didn't look too deeply [at the navy deficiencies] since the navy did not play much into their plans, yet this has always been stated with the benefit of hindsight. Balbo's plans for the navy were indeed a notable change from those envisioned by his predecessor, however. With war looming on the continent and naval rivals France and England preoccupied by Germany, Balbo's new vision of the navy was one of maritime defense. While little could be done to change the ships currently under construction, Balbo urged that more destroyers, submarines, and MAS boats be constructed. He also urged that these new vessels be fitted for independent operations in the tumultuous Atlantic and Indian Oceans outside of the relative calm of the Mediterranean. More emphasis was placed on "special assault teams and vehicles" as cost-effective solutions against enemy shipping. Plans for the Aguilla aircraft carrier, which Balbo despised [2], were shelved and Commando Supremo began to discuss plans for possibly mothballing the two older capital ships in the event of continental war with "an unknown land power", presumably Germany or the Soviet Union.

When coupled with the later moves towards improved merchant marine and port efficiency developed during Project Moses, the Balbian plans set up a navy more attuned to commerce warfare and defense than empire building or fleet clashes. In many ways this reflects the changing Italian focus back towards continental affairs with an apparent naval goal of maintaining colonies rather than acquiring new ones. It also signaled a more open toleration or fear of British navy interest in the Mediterranean, a point of contention which Balbo's political enemies would use against him.

From Roman Eagle, the Biography of Italo Balbo by Giuseppe Bosco, PhD., Professor of History at the University of Illinois, Chicago.

************************************************

Note a piè di pagina:

1 – Before anyone feels the need to point it out, yes, Cavagnari was not a very skilled naval commander, as witnessed by OTL's poor showing. He was quite good at appearing ready, however, and Balbo's getting a gorgeous view of seemingly ready ships with motivated crews.

2 – OTL Balbo saw no need for an aircraft carrier since Italy was a "natural" aircraft carrier capable of giving air coverage to the entire Mediterranean. OTL events proved this theory incorrect.

jlckansas

June 10th, 2010, 02:05 AM

Couple of things here:
1. Under Balbo, do the trains still run on time?;)

2. And seriously, what about Italy's airline industry? With Balbo being air minded could this be a way for him to fly the flag so to speak in other countries? Some of the designs that they were coming up with, SM79, SM 82, and the P108 that could made into an airliner type like they did with the B17 and B29 tech to the Boeing 307/377 airliner.

Geekhis Khan

June 11th, 2010, 12:43 AM

Couple of things here:
1. Under Balbo, do the trains still run on time?;)

That's a myth about the trains, but let's just say "sure, why not." ;)

2. And seriously, what about Italy's airline industry? With Balbo being air minded could this be a way for him to fly the flag so to speak in other countries? Some of the designs that they were coming up with, SM79, SM 82, and the P108 that could made into an airliner type like they did with the B17 and B29 tech to the Boeing 307/377 airliner.

Well, Balbo was the one who originally established Italian air routes as Air Minister, so you can expect him to keep pushing air travel. At the moment it's still the SM.66 as the backbone. Expect later developments in air travel, particularly after the war.

Geordie

June 11th, 2010, 06:57 AM

Here's hoping Balbo has enough time to sort out at least some of these problems before Europe starts to explode...

mailinutile2

June 11th, 2010, 07:29 AM

That's a myth about the trains,

Less than you think of.
There is a base of thruth on the train-on-time issue, according to my grandfather memories (who lived there and then).
Also the regime exploited cleverly the train network by organizing "Sunday Trains" for internal tourism at reduced price (25%).
That had the advantages of
1) being a contribution of the building of the sense of national unity.
Before that, most of italians never had saw Rome, Naples, Venice and considered them as "faraway places".
After that, they were proud of the fact that "that is mine, too"
2) building friendly feelings towards the regime (everyone likes a free vacation)

lounge60

June 13th, 2010, 02:52 PM

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2122/stormi.png

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4863/ariad.png

Geekhis Khan

June 14th, 2010, 02:23 PM

Balbo worked late into the night many times [that July] trying to sort out the mess that was the Aeronautica. His "Three Marshals" tour of the military had revealed General Valle's estimates of 3000 operational aircraft to be at best optimistic, at worst criminally misleading. Balbo loudly bemoaned to any who would listen the "mess" Valle had made of his "beautiful baby" all the while overlooking his own early hand in its systemic lack of readiness. [...]

In addition to the lack of training, discipline, and readiness, the force itself was a hodge-podge of competing and redundant designs that overstressed supplies and maintenance. Thanks to Fascist autarchic policy designed to keep domestic manufacturers in business, specialized designs from every manufacturer existed for every possible scenario...yet these aircraft continually failed to meet the mark . [...]

The mainstay of the fleet was the bomber wing, based primarily on the tri-engined SM.79 Sparviero, an outdated but durable medium bomber design that had performed well in Spain. While useful in a limited tactical sense (it would later prove to also be a very capable torpedo bomber), the aircraft failed to live up to its Douhetist strategic designs. The designated replacement, the Piaggio P.108, basically an Italian recreation of the American B-17, was under development, but years away from full-scale production. Holding faith that the P.108 would deliver Italy's Douhetist arm, Balbo, always a fair-weather Douhetist, increased funding for that project slightly.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/SM79_193.jpg/300px-SM79_193.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/76/Piaggio_P.108.jpg/300px-Piaggio_P.108.jpg
SM.79 "Sparviero" (Sparrowhawk) Medium Bomber and Piaggio P.108 "Bombardiere" Heavy Bomber

The fighter force was hopelessly outclassed. While the venerable CR.42 Biplane fighters had served well in Ethiopia and Spain, they were no match for the inline-engined all-metal monoplane fighters emerging elsewhere. While prototype metal monoplanes were in initial production, these were equipped with slow underpowered radials by design and necessity, for no suitable in-line engines were available. Despite Italy's initial lead in inline engine development under Balbo for the Schneider Cup races, the technology lay forgotten, the dies recast and the expertise lost. On the docket were three competing designs: the Fiat G.50 "Freccia", the Macchi C.200 "Saetta", and the Reggiane Re.2000 "Falco". Initial competitive trials showed advantage towards the Macchi, though the Fiat's maneuverability (and undoubtedly Cavallero's stake in the company) gave "great attention" to the G.50.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Fiat_G50.jpg/300px-Fiat_G50.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/Macchi_MC-200_920901-F-1234P-073.jpg/300px-Macchi_MC-200_920901-F-1234P-073.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7a/Re2000.jpg/300px-Re2000.jpg
Fiat G.50 (Swedish Markings), Macchi C.200, and Reggiane Re.2000

After long discussions with SIM and pilots from the Spanish intervention, Balbo came to the conclusion that development of a high-speed inline engined interceptor would be advantageous. The three monoplane designs were deemed worthy of such reconfiguration. The problem remained the powerplant. Balbo allocated funds for exploratory Italian designs, but, recalling the time lag in developing engines for the Schneider Cup, hedged his bets by setting up a commission to explore foreign engine designs. The commission eventually came up with three suitable designs: the American Allison, the British Merlin, and the German Daimler Benz DB.601. Trials were to be established in order to test the designs. [...]

Ground support became another issue. Mecozzi and Baistroicchi both continued to press for greater tactical air use, both in terms of air-transportable infantry and in terms of close air support. The former was already at hand thanks to the large remaining numbers of SM.81medium bombers, which were reconfigurable to a transport aircraft similar in appearance and capabilities to the German Junkers Ju-52. The latter was officially already at hand thanks to the Breda Ba.65 and the upcoming Ba.88. The Ba.65 had proven very effective in Spain and was compared favorably with the German Junkers Ju-87 "Stuka". However, it was outdated and underpowered and like the Stuka very vulnerable to fighters. The prototype Ba.88 held great promise, being sleek, fast, and heavily armed. However, the prototypes which performed so well were soon loaded down with militarizing equipment, with the resulting increase in weight and wing loading becoming too much for the underpowered Piaggio engines. The Caproni Ca.310, designed as a Reconnaisance aircraft and bomber, held a possible substitute.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/BredaBa.65.jpg/300px-BredaBa.65.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Breda_Ba88.jpg/300px-Breda_Ba88.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f0/Ca310b.jpg/300px-Ca310b.jpg
Breda's Ground Attack aircraft, the Ba.65 and Ba.88 and the Caproni Ca.310 Recce Bomber

Balbo's efforts to personally redirect the Aeronautica didn't end with aircraft selection. In addition to developing air-transportable infantry Balbo pressed for the creation of his personal vision: the Folgore Paratroop Brigade. In the fall of 1939, while German and Soviet armies converged on Poland and signaled the beginning of a new World War, the 185 Divisione Paracadutisti Folgore was established [1]. A second idea also came to him involving his new love, the Maiale manned torpedo: air transport and delivery for the torpedo and its team. He was soon in touch with his old contacts at Savoia Marchetti [and a] new updated version of his beloved S.55 flying boat, the S.55 XI, was soon in production...with the special assistance of Major Tesei as technical advisor. [...]

In all Balbo's changes to the armed forces were notable, though not as revolutionary as his diary indicates he truly wished. The political realities of Fascist Italy and his own shaky position as Executive Minister required continued compromise with crown and military. In the end Balbo's Army remained divided in focus between a small elite modernized force, special units, and the under trained hordes of traditional mass infantry. Though drastically scaled back, it remained far more than the 10-15 modern divisions Italy might realistically have supported. His navy saw little change beyond a shift in priorities as the Axis whithered. The Air Force, his baby, which saw his most direct intervention, was in some ways put "back on track", but retained many fatal flaws including its lack of direction, being still divided between Douhetist and Mecozzian philosophies [2]. While historians debate whether Mussolini may have done better to get the Italian war machine ready, in the end time was simply running out.

In September of 1939 armies descended upon Poland from both sides. The secret accords between Molotov and von Ribbentrop which sealed the young nation's fate shocked the world and sent it spiraling into a new and deadlier World War [3].

From Roman Eagle, the Biography of Italo Balbo [I]by Giuseppe Bosco, PhD., Professor of History at the University of Illinois, Chicago.

************************************************

Note a piè di pagina:

1 – Two years ahead of OTL.

2 – Balbo's military is in a slightly better starting position than Mussolini's here. Several programs have been jumpstarted (Decima MAS, Folgore, RE and RA reform) but several weaknesses remain, including systemic lack of suitable officers and NCOs, lack of supplies and radios, and a lack of focus in mission. The army remains a compromise between the traditional "masses with bayonets and artillery" and the "army of rapid decision" armored Blitzkrieg, still hampered with unsuitable light tanks. The navy is still a paper tiger. The air force remains split in a dozen directions, unsure of if its a Douhetist "Strategic" force or a Mecozzian "tactical" force.

3 – Yep, things went "second order counterfactual" here. Hitler's still got Poland in his sights, as does Stalin. With Italy willing to step aside over Poland OTL's marriage of convenience has come into being pretty much as OTL, with the western response as OTL. More on that in the next installment.

Whanztastic

June 14th, 2010, 06:06 PM

Dear god, we have stared long into the abyss and now, with little fanfare, stepped off into the unknown.

I am really excited about the manned torpedo innovation. Italy seems to have a mediocre military at large but have some crack specialists, some proto-special forces such as the paratroopers, Po Army, and the manned torpedo frogmen. Very exciting :D

joea64

June 15th, 2010, 11:16 PM

It's pretty ironic that Balbo's own service, the Regia Aeronautica, seems to be, at least from the description, the worst off, with no clear idea of what kind of force it wants to be and no really outstanding plane designs, or at least, nothing that will become outstanding without a lot more work, and perhaps foreign add-ons such as engines and the like. I have the feeling Allied Italy is going to end up buying a lot of Mustangs, Thunderbolts and Liberators...

The military picture isn't all dark, to be sure, but you're right; Italy is just about out of time. Balbo must have reacted...spectacularly...to the news of the Nazi-Soviet nonaggression pact.

Geekhis Khan

June 15th, 2010, 11:47 PM

Dear god, we have stared long into the abyss and now, with little fanfare, stepped off into the unknown.

{Dun-Dun}

I am really excited about the manned torpedo innovation. Italy seems to have a mediocre military at large but have some crack specialists, some proto-special forces such as the paratroopers, Po Army, and the manned torpedo frogmen. Very exciting :D

As a general rule Italy had some of the best "Special forces" of the war OTL. ATL they're getting more attention since they appeal to Balbo's love of daring and audacity...whereas Mussolini and most of his Generals prefered Masses of troops. The Miaile is OTL, but suffered for lack of funding OTL since Cavagnari was a Battleship Admiral.

It's pretty ironic that Balbo's own service, the Regia Aeronautica, seems to be, at least from the description, the worst off, with no clear idea of what kind of force it wants to be and no really outstanding plane designs, or at least, nothing that will become outstanding without a lot more work, and perhaps foreign add-ons such as engines and the like. I have the feeling Allied Italy is going to end up buying a lot of Mustangs, Thunderbolts and Liberators...

You've described all three services there: no clear idea of what kind of force it wants to be and no really outstanding [plane/tank/ship] designs. And...buying? :cool:

The military picture isn't all dark, to be sure, but you're right; Italy is just about out of time. Balbo must have reacted...spectacularly...to the news of the Nazi-Soviet nonaggression pact.

More on that coming up...but yea, Balbo is to put it mildly "not pleased" at that development.

Geekhis Khan

June 17th, 2010, 02:37 PM

News of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact caught the world by surprise, as did the speed at which the Polish nation was subjugated. Immediately France and Britain fulfilled their diplomatic agreements and declared war on the German Reich, plunging the continent into armed conflict once again. Sitting on the sideline was Italy, still recovering from the post-Mussolinian vacuum with a shaky Balbo-dominated government. [...]

Hitler initially hesitated on the fateful Polish venture. While he was less than convinced of the Western Powers' seriousness over the Poland ultimatum the Italian wild card on his southern border gave him pause, causing him to delay the final orders until the 14th of September [1]. [...] Throughout the campaign Hitler took the threat [of Italian intervention] seriously enough to keep a full Army ready near the Brenner frontier. [...]

The mood in Italy was one of shock, not of the Polish invasion itself, which was expected, but of the Germano-Soviet pact. After being assured of their former Axis partner's dedicated opposition to the Soviets, one of the two totalitarian regimes' few remaining mutual values, the pact felt almost a betrayal. As a result serious discussions commenced over intervention, mostly on the pro-Allied side, though a notable faction led by Starace (it is believed at the behest of Farinacci) favored siding with the Germans as the pact was "surely the result of our betrayal of Mussolini's support [to Hitler]."

While the debate raged in the halls of government Balbo silently fretted. His early bravado over opposing the "ogre" looked weak and hypocritical in the face of actual physical war, and yet he knew of his nation's military unreadiness and feared disaster should they intervene. The rapidity of the Nazi advance, the now infamous Blitzkrieg, seemed to support this fear (and in hindsight was a entirely justified). Diplomatically Balbo had already indicated Italy's "non-interest" in the Polish situation, so any intervention against it would be viewed as a betrayal. Furthermore, the Western Allies' reticence to actual physical intervention even as their Polish allies collapsed undermined any belief in the Allies' true devotion to this new war.

Instead, Balbo and Grandi adopted the role of would-be peacemakers. Grandi, via the various ambassadors, put out feelers for a joint conference on Poland [2]. [...] The plans included a Polish rump state with German, Slovak, and Soviet irredentist claims fulfilled. [...] It was hoped that war could be avoided or at least postponed until Italy was better prepared. [...] These efforts proved fruitless in the face of French and British intransigence and were ultimately undermined by the swift fall of Poland under the the German-Soviet pincer [3]. [...]

As Poland faded into non-existence the Allies did little [and soon] the eastern front had concluded and the western front remained quiet. The ensuing "Sitzkrieg" [4] would last several tense months. [...]

Conterfactual historians have debated what would or could have happened had the Italians taken a stronger line on Poland. The consensus is that actual intervention would have been disastrous, but many point out Hitler's initial hesitations and hypothesize that had the Fascists not "sold Poland down river" (in the words of Dr. Bialystok in his famous Poland's Fall) and fully reestablished the Stresse Front that Hitler might have been contained earlier. Others disagree. Dr. Blum in Hitler's Spring maintains that Grandi and Balbo were being diplomatic realists and that such a German-Italian accord was necessary in the face of the threat illustrated by Balkan War Scare the previous year. [...]

As the Sitzkrieg "raged" in the west Italy shored up behind a wall of Neutrality and concentrated its efforts on modernizing its military-industrial complex as best as possible and establishing trade networks with both combatant sides. Diplomatically Grandi pursued two objectives. The first was maintaining Italy's neutrality and protecting its sovereignty for as long as possible, a return to traditional Italian diplomacy as the "point of decisive weight". While this opened up Italy to the financial incentives and courtship of both sides it also left Italy in a precarious position as a wild card and a tempting target for both sides to attack as a flanking maneuver or new front. Grandi's second objective was establishing an "alliance of neutrals" in the Balkans both to secure mutual defense from interventions by either side and to secure Italy's own defensive and economic interests in the region. Italy's Albanian puppet was quickly on board and Grandi received positive overtures from both Bulgaria and Romania. However, neither of these two nations were willing to necessarily join forces with the other. Greece and Turkey were less receptive, rightfully fearful of Italian motives. Hungary paid lip service to such an agreement, yet remained aloof fearing German intervention should such a Balkan Alliance be perceived in Berlin as a threat to the German flank. Efforts towards the Alliance of Neutrals remained an ongoing source of frustration for Grandi.

From Warriors, Diplomats, Statesmen, Dictators – the Political and Diplomatic History of Europe in the Twentieth Century, by Dr. Eric Spellman, Harvard University, 1994

************************************************

Note a piè di pagina:

1 – OTL a similar hesitation happened over Mussolini's declaration of "non-belligerence" such that he delayed the invasion for two weeks...ATL the delay has been longer as contingency plans were drafted in the event of Italian intervention on the Allied side.

2 – Ciano attempted the same OTL, even trying repeatedly to convince Mussolini against war. His efforts were as futile as Grandi's are here.

3 – Basically OTL here...no reason to expect otherwise.

4 – I have appropriated the OTL German name for the Phony War ITTL simply because I like the ironic pun...and find the Anglophone name dull and uninspired. FYI, the name literally means "sitting war".

mailinutile2

June 17th, 2010, 03:23 PM

OTL a similar hesitation happened over Mussolini's declaration of "non-belligerence" such that he delayed the invasion for two weeks...ATL the delay has been longer as contingency plans were drafted in the event of Italian intervention on the Allied side.

Dear Author,
there was a precise motivation for OTL M to refuse the term "Neutrality" in favour of "Non-belligerance" (even if it amounted to the same thing).
In the first stages of the Great War the debate raged in Italy between Neutrality and Intervention, and a good share of the will-be-fascists was recruited among the pro-intervention activists.
Thus "Neutrality" was almost a swearword in the fascist regime, almost as "Capital" in the CCCP or "Communism" in 1950 USA, with the additional shame of being a term suggesting weakness and fear.
I advice some sort of word-trick here, too.

Geekhis Khan

June 17th, 2010, 03:56 PM

Dear Author,
there was a precise motivation for OTL M to refuse the term "Neutrality" in favour of "Non-belligerance" (even if it amounted to the same thing).
In the first stages of the Great War the debate raged in Italy between Neutrality and Intervention, and a good share of the will-be-fascists was recruited among the pro-intervention activists.
Thus "Neutrality" was almost a swearword in the fascist regime, almost as "Capital" in the CCCP or "Communism" in 1950 USA, with the additional shame of being a term suggesting weakness and fear.
I advice some sort of word-trick here, too.

I'm glad you noticed that...it was a deliberate decision! :)

I purposefully avoided Mussolinian doublespeak like "nonbeligerence" in favor of "Neutrality" due to the diplomatic ramifications.

It was a bad word in some Fascist circles, yes, but mostly the OTL choice of the term "nonbelligerence" had to do with Mussolini and his desire for war against the Western Allies as soon as possible. He purposefully avoided the "N-word" 1) because of the poor older associations, but also (and most importantly) 2) because he still wanted to keep himself "open" to Germany, whom he feared was abandoning him for Stalin, and 3) to create a purposefully ambiguous and undefined diplomatic situation that would keep open his options for immediate intervention on Germany's side.

Here Balbo and Grandi have the opposite goal: they want to stay out of the war as long as possible. Grandi (a more moderate, old school diplomat) wants to clearly separate the nation from both powers, thereby keeping Italian options open and making any actions against Italy by one side or the other a clear violation of their stated neutrality. Diplomatically, invading or attacking a nation that's "nonbelligerent" but still openly supporting your enemy is easier to justify internationally, and OTL the French and British both came close to attacking Italy in 1939 as they both rightly assumed Italy would jump on their backs at the first opportunity. Plus, as stated neutrals the British Navy will have a much harder time justifying the blockade or seizure of Italian merchant goods or the boarding of Italian vessels, even when they suspect some of them are bound for their enemies.

Then there's the Balkan interest: selling the Balkan nations on an alliance with you when you're obviously in bed with Germany is selling them on de facto Axis membership. Selling them on "mutual defense of our shared neutrality" is diplomatically much easier.

So the N-word, while distasteful, fulfills a very deliberate and specific diplomatic goal for Italy.

Jimbrock

June 17th, 2010, 04:18 PM

Ah, finally getting some action now. I thought the Balkans would see more action, though.

maverick

June 17th, 2010, 04:21 PM

Oh, and the shit hits the fan...again.

War is upon us! :D

mailinutile2

June 17th, 2010, 04:33 PM

I'm glad you noticed that...it was a deliberate decision! :)

I purposefully avoided Mussolinian doublespeak like "nonbeligerence" in favor of "Neutrality" due to the diplomatic ramifications.

It was a bad word in some Fascist circles, yes, but mostly the OTL choice of the term "nonbelligerence" had to do with Mussolini and his desire for war against the Western Allies as soon as possible. He purposefully avoided the "N-word" 1) because of the poor older associations, but also (and most importantly) 2) because he still wanted to keep himself "open" to Germany, whom he feared was abandoning him for Stalin, and 3) to create a purposefully ambiguous and undefined diplomatic situation that would keep open his options for immediate intervention on Germany's side.

Here Balbo and Grandi have the opposite goal: they want to stay out of the war as long as possible. Grandi (a more moderate, old school diplomat) wants to clearly separate the nation from both powers, thereby keeping Italian options open and making any actions against Italy by one side or the other a clear violation of their stated neutrality. Diplomatically, invading or attacking a nation that's "nonbelligerent" but still openly supporting your enemy is easier to justify internationally, and OTL the French and British both came close to attacking Italy in 1939 as they both rightly assumed Italy would jump on their backs at the first opportunity. Plus, as stated neutrals the British Navy will have a much harder time justifying the blockade or seizure of Italian merchant goods or the boarding of Italian vessels, even when they suspect some of them are bound for their enemies.

Then there's the Balkan interest: selling the Balkan nations on an alliance with you when you're obviously in bed with Germany is selling them on de facto Axis membership. Selling them on "mutual defense of our shared neutrality" is diplomatically much easier.

So the N-word, while distasteful, fulfills a very deliberate and specific diplomatic goal for Italy.

I understand.
In this case I suggest some grumbles from the hard-liners.
(I am not referring here imbecile and generally despised bigwigs like Farinacci or Starace, but of the Arditi and red-neck squadrists composing Balbo-led Cilibano squads near ferrara, who would feel betrayed by their own leader making such a choice).
Maybe some sort of purge would be in order

Geekhis Khan

June 17th, 2010, 05:41 PM

Ah, finally getting some action now. I thought the Balkans would see more action, though.

Oh don't worry, the Balkans will never let you down when it comes to mindless conflict.

Oh, and the shit hits the fan...again.

War is upon us! :D

Oh, damn. I let slip the dogs of war again.

I understand.
In this case I suggest some grumbles from the hard-liners.
(I am not referring here imbecile and generally despised bigwigs like Farinacci or Starace, but of the Arditi and red-neck squadrists composing Balbo-led Cilibano squads near ferrara, who would feel betrayed by their own leader making such a choice).
Maybe some sort of purge would be in order

You might just see something like that. ;)

"Red-neck squadrists"...LOL.

DuQuense

June 17th, 2010, 06:25 PM

Oh, and the shit hits the fan...again.
I Prefer the more elegant --- And the Fecal Matter impacts the Rotary Air Impeller ,, again.:eek:

Geekhis Khan

June 17th, 2010, 06:47 PM

I Prefer the more elegant --- And the Fecal Matter impacts the Rotary Air Impeller ,, again.:eek:

You mean "the post-nutritional solids dynamically interface with the reciprocating atmospheric motivator". :D

Germaniac

June 17th, 2010, 06:57 PM

You mean "the post-nutritional solids dynamically interface with the reciprocating atmospheric motivator". :D

That post is a steaming hot pile of win

Jimbrock

June 17th, 2010, 06:58 PM

Oh don't worry, the Balkans will never let you down when it comes to mindless conflict.

Will the long digested organic ex-nutritional substance collide with and engulf the mechanical electrical revolving air stimulator?

Geekhis Khan

June 17th, 2010, 07:08 PM

That post is a steaming hot pile of win

Like a high-fiber prune smoothie this really moves me. :)

Will the long digested organic ex-nutritional substance collide with and engulf the mechanical electrical revolving air stimulator?

You bet your gluteally-gated post-nutritional transitory egress it will.

Edit: wow, this thread has gone to...well, you know.

joea64

June 17th, 2010, 09:24 PM

Not as much as it's going to, metaphorically speaking anyway, once Balbo gets faced with the Nazi blitz into the West whenever it happens. This is REALLY getting good! :D

world

June 17th, 2010, 11:52 PM

Oh don't worry, the Balkans will never let you down when it comes to mindless conflict.

Oh, damn. I let slip the dogs of war again.

You might just see something like that. ;)

"Red-neck squadrists"...LOL.

I dont think Balbo would purge his best supporters.
It would be a mistake for the time line.

Geekhis Khan

June 18th, 2010, 01:35 AM

Not as much as it's going to, metaphorically speaking anyway, once Balbo gets faced with the Nazi blitz into the West whenever it happens. This is REALLY getting good! :D

Thanks!

I dont think Balbo would purge his best supporters.
It would be a mistake for the time line.

Who said anything about purging his supporters? ;)

mailinutile2

June 18th, 2010, 06:51 AM

You mean "the post-nutritional solids dynamically interface with the reciprocating atmospheric motivator". :D

Of courrse there's always the old-fashioned
"the midden hits the windmill"

Jimbrock

June 18th, 2010, 06:36 PM

Like a high-fiber prune smoothie this really moves me. :)

You bet your gluteally-gated post-nutritional transitory egress it will.

Edit: wow, this thread has gone to...well, you know.

To the domesticated form of the wolf, a member of the Canidae family of the order Carnivora, a term used for both feral and pet varieties and one of the most widely kept working and companion animals in human history?

HJ Tulp

June 19th, 2010, 07:34 PM

I was wondering if this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amedeo_Guillet) guy is going to show up somewhere in this TL :)

Geekhis Khan

June 21st, 2010, 10:47 AM

I was wondering if this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amedeo_Guillet) guy is going to show up somewhere in this TL :)

Maaaaayyyybeee.......:D

Edit: Just noticed, he died just this week, age 101:

Amedeo Guillet died on june 16, 2010 in Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome).

Been unable to confirm this from a non-wikipedia source. Any of our Italophone friends hear about this?

HJ Tulp

June 21st, 2010, 11:00 AM

Maaaaayyyybeee.......:D

Edit: Just noticed, he died just this week, age 101:

Been unable to confirm this from a non-wikipedia source. Any of our Italophone friends hear about this?

I got the link from a Italian guy in a thread commemorating his death on another forum :)

mailinutile2

June 21st, 2010, 11:01 AM

Dear Autor,
I do not know if you know that Chaplin's desk gag in "The Great Dictator" has something to do with Balbo.
After coming to power, Mussolini took the habit of not putting a chair in front of his desk, so that the gerarchi had to stand in front of him while reporting to him.
The only one who was able to take him down a peg was Balbo, who took the habit of sitting on Mussolini Desk.
According to records, M never dared complaining

Geekhis Khan

June 21st, 2010, 11:29 AM

I got the link from a Italian guy in a thread commemorating his death on another forum :)

Well, RIP, Major Guillet. You brought honor to an honorless war.

Dear Autor,
I do not know if you know that Chaplin's desk gag in "The Great Dictator" has something to do with Balbo.
After coming to power, Mussolini took the habit of not putting a chair in front of his desk, so that the gerarchi had to stand in front of him while reporting to him.
The only one who was able to take him down a peg was Balbo, who took the habit of sitting on Mussolini Desk.
According to records, M never dared complaining

ROFL...that's Classic Balbo for you! :D

OTL (according to wiki) Guillet was "a particular favourite of the governor, Italo Balbo", when in Libya after the SCW. ATL I see little reason why this won't also be the case.

Geekhis Khan

June 22nd, 2010, 12:30 PM

As the Sitzkrieg "raged" in the west Italian efforts at a Balkan "Alliance of Neutrals" continued to net mixed results. Negotiations were initiated by Italy between Hungary and Romania in an effort to resolve the Transylvanian Question ran into a diplomatic wall due to outside pressure from Germany, who saw Italian efforts in the area as a threat to their southeastern flank. [...] Efforts for a rapproachment with Greece failed to undermine Metaxas' close ties to the British, nor did Grandi establish the desired Treaty of Nonaggression and Consultation (which would have made Greece a de facto satellite), though the 1928 Treaty of Friendship was renewed for another decade. Meanwhile, relations with Yugoslavia were further strained as Prince Paul saw the Italian diplomatic front in the Balkans as an attempt at an anti-Yugoslav coalition. No doubt the continued Italian sheltering of Croat separatist leader Ante Pavelić did little to assuage these fears. This, in turn, led SIM to contact Croat Baron Josip Bombelles [1], and old contact of Ciano's, in order to arrange for Croat "troubles" if such were "necessary". [...]

Italo-German relations continued to deteriorate, the flames fanned by racial conflict in the disputed Alto Adige-South Tyrol region. National Socialist agitators, possibly at the behest of the SS, began to fuel the conflict. Top Reich officials were quoted as supporting the "reintegration" of South Tyrol into the Reich. International scandal erupted when Sudeten German vice-mayor of Prague Josef Pfitzner was quoted as saying that "not a single Alpine peak should remain in Italian hands", further suggesting that the Reich should invade the Po Valley, seize Trieste, and dominate the Balkans [2]. The Italian Army stepped up the construction of border defenses with the Reich and MVSN Border Guard units were redeployed to Alto Adige to watch the frontier and keep order. In this latter effort they failed utterly when their heavy-handed tactics merely inflamed local ethnic German dissent. [...]

In November of [1939] The Soviets invaded Finland. This put further strain on Italo-German relations as the Soviets, despite occasional rapproachment with Italy and continued trade, remained ideological enemies of the Fascists and were currently German allies. Italian efforts to send weapons and equipment to assist the Fins were stymied by the Germans, who held up shipments through the Brenner [3] and blockaded Italian merchant shipping through the Baltic. The "parallel Winter War would drag on, but in the tense atmosphere of that November public outcry in Italy against the "Bolsheviks" and their German allies reached a fevered pitch. Calls of "death to Russia!" and even "death to Germany!" rang out. The Italian leadership cautiously rode this wave of outcry, Executive Minister Balbo appeared in public to fan the flames but tried to contain and redirect the outrage along regime lines. Balbo's public committal to remaining "Neutral", a word despised by hardliners for its resonance with the non-interventionism of the Great War years, caused strain between Balbo and the more hardline MVSN squadrists, including some of Balbo's own friends from his squadrist days. Humiliated rival Farinacci was quick to profit from this dissent, drawing more of the radical fringe into his growing "Second Wave" movement. [...]

The Fascist government was in a difficult situation growing ever the more dire as relations with Germany deteriorated in the face of the Winter War and the Alto Adige-South Tyrol situation. The Anglo-French attempted to use the issue to recruit Italy to the Entente cause [but] Italy remained aloof from entanglements with either Entente or Pakt. [...] As 1939 came to an end the Fascist Grand Council held a special session to discuss the international situation. [...] A plurality voted to remain Neutral with a sizable faction favoring siding with the Entente and a smaller faction favoring siding with the Pakt. Taking the reins in an unprecedented act of initiative, de jura Capo del Governo Marshal Emilio de Bono urged that the German situation be "resolved" and advised Grandi to seek a diplomatic solution to the Alto Adige situation. That coming spring would see Grandi and Balbo travel to the mountain lair of the Fuhrer himself with fateful consequences.

[B]From Warriors, Diplomats, Statesmen, Dictators – the Political and Diplomatic History of Europe in the Twentieth Century, by Dr. Eric Spellman, Harvard University, 1994

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Note a piè di pagina:

1 – Mirroring OTL, though OTL it was Ciano who initiated contact between Pavelić and Bombelles.

2 – OTL quote.

3 – OTL! Even with the Axis intact Germany protected its ties to Stalin.