The End Of an Age [Archive] - Alternate History Discussion Board

jmberry

May 29th, 2009, 09:42 PM

260
Emperor Gallienus defeats the Juthungi Alamanni at Augusta Vindelicorum.
Regalianus revolts against Gallienus and defeats the Sarmatians in Pannonia, only to be killed by his own troops.
Postumus declares himself Augustus, establishing the Gallic Empire.
Paul of Samosata becomes Patriarch of Antioch.
The African Legions defeat the Berbers.
Emperor Valerian is ambushed by Shahanshah Shapur I, and taken prisoner to Ctesiphon. The Sassanids plunder Cappadocia, but another force sent into Syria is ambushed by the Palmyrenes under Emir Odaenathus.
The Franks take over the Scheldt River.
Fulvius Macrianus is declared Augustus by the Eastern Legions, but gives the title to his sons Macrianus Minor and Quietus.

261
The Macriani defeat a loyalist army under General Aureolus in Thrace. [1] However, Odaenathus defeats and kills Quietus at Emessa.
Postumus defeats Franks and Alamanni who have crossed the Rhine.
In the wake of the Macriani victory, Aemilianus, governor of Egypt, declares himself Augustus. [2]

262
Gallienus diverts more troops to the east to defeat the Macriani, abandoning Rhaetia to Postumus. [3]
The Goths enter the Balkans, sack Byzantium, then move on to pillage Asia and Greece.
Odeanathus recovers Coele-Syria from the Macriani.
Aemilianus defeats a loyalist force under Marcus Aurelius Claudius. [4]

263
The Palmyrenes besiege Ctesiphon.
The Goths invade Ephesus and destroy the Temple of Artemis. The Macriani attempt to defeat the Goths, but are defeated at Thessaloniki.

264
The Synod of Antioch is held.
Gallienus battles the Goths to a draw at Naissus.
Odaenathus defeats Aemilianus and begins to move his forces into Asia. [5]

265
Victorianus, general of Gallienus, flees to Carthage and declares himself Augustus. [6]
Ctesiphon surrenders to Odaenathus.
The Alamanni invade the Empire once again.

266
Death of Cormac Ulfada mac Art, High King of Ireland. The High Kingship passes to Eochaid Gonnat.
Odaenathus is killed. Zenobia becomes Queen Regent of Palmyra and Egypt.
The Heruli join the Goths in the Balkans.

267
Eochaid Gonnat dies. Cairbre Lifechair becomes High King.
Gallienus is killed in battle with the Goths and Heruli. Aureolus declares himself Augustus.

268
The Alamannic king Chrocus defeats Aureolus at Ravenna. Aureolus is killed.
Chrocus marches on Rome and crowns himself King of Italy.
A massive earthquake devastates Cyrenaica. Zenobia sends her forces into Cyrenaica to annex it to Palmyra. Cyrene is renamed Zenobiopolis. [7]

269
General Zabdas captures Athens for Palmyra. Victorianus invades Malta, Sicilia, Sardinia, and Corsica.
Valentine I is elected Pope. [8]
Marcu Aurelius Carus declares himself Dux of Illyricum. [9]
The Suebi, Quadi, and Marcomanni invade Rhaetia and Western Noricum. The Iazyges invade Eastern Noricum.

[1] This is the POD. OTL, Aureolus defeated the Macriani. Their victory makes it harder for Gallienus to hold on to his empire
[2] He did it OTL, as well
[3] OTL, Gallienus regained Rhaetia. TTL, he believes Greece is more important than the Alps
[4] Better known as Claudius II OTL
[5] As a result, Zabdas never burns down the Library of Alexandria
[6] OTL, he fled to Gaul, and later became Gallic Emperor
[7] OTL, Claudius II renamed it Claudiopolis
[8] TTL, he is never martyred by Claudius II, so while he'll still become St. Valentine, his sphere of focus will be very different
[9] Better known as Emperor Carus OTL. You'd be amazed by the number of post-Severan emperors who came from Illyria

Comments? Suggestions? Criticisms?

jmberry

May 30th, 2009, 03:33 AM

Well, here it is, "End of an Age", one of the winners from my poll a while back. Any suggestions on how it could be improved, expanded on? Do you like it, dislike it?

steven24gordon

May 30th, 2009, 03:45 PM

8Deer

May 30th, 2009, 04:26 PM

Im definately looking foward to seeing where this goes in the future.

I can't really comment too much on the plausibility, but it is a very interesting idea.

jmberry

May 30th, 2009, 09:47 PM

Zenobia is queen of a kingdom that includes: Greece, Anatolia, Syria, North Africa, Palestine, Northern Arabia and Egypt? Somehow I think that Zenobia would not attempt to move into Greece and the lands beyond Asia. From what I understand of the geopolitics of the time, Palmyra was the “meat in the sandwich”. Positioned between Persia and Rome, the Arabs of Palmyra couldn’t move their armies too far from Syria without becoming vulnerable on one of the these two fronts. In my opinion, Zenobia would probably play the old imperial game that Odaenathus played so well. She would support one of the rival Emperors to the throne (probably the strong man along the Danube) in exchange for being recognized as co-regent of the East. This would give her greater legitimacy with her new Roman subjects and allow her the time and energy to plan a campaign against her other main enemy: the Persians. In fact Persia is a far more glittering prize than the West: the Persians are richer and conquering Persian territory will further cement Palmyra’s control over the caravan routes (the source of her wealth). And besides the Persian are a greater threat than the Romans.

If Palmyrawas able to survive it might recreate something of the Selucid state before the Roman conquest. It might even be able to conquer Arabia, something that both the Romans and Persians failed to do. If so then we have far more Hellenic Arabia and the seed-bed for a new and probably dazzling religious movement. On the other hand, the Sassanids may conquer these North Arabs and seize the entire Middle East. This would allow ideas to flow move easily between East and West, although it would do funny things to the development of Christianity.

I have a slight problem with you killing off Aureolous. From my understanding, Aureolous was one of the finest of Gallienus’ generals and not the kind of guy to get wiped out by the Alamanni. But then maybe that is just me. And then there is Chrocus. I have to ask why Chrocus is declaring himself: King of Italy? I hope you’re not planning to have him replay the exploits of Alaric. These northern barbarians had none of the pretensions of the Goths a century or so later, at this stage the Alamanni just wanted to raid and then go back home with their loot. I could maybe see them expanding into Gaul but the Italian peninsula? Just can’t see it (although maybe I’m wrong).
Palmyra rules the OTL Palmyrene Empire, plus Cyrene and Classical Greece (and Greece only because the Greeks were terrified of the Goths). I have some interesting plans for how this will affect Arabia and Christianity (spoiler: both the Marcionites and the Gnostics will become state sponsored by at least one state each).

As for the Barbarians, Chrocus is simply making the best of a good situation. He didn't expect to wind up with Rome, but its his, so he might as well enjoy it. His hold on Italy is tenous at best, however, with both Postumus and Victorianus marshalling troops to take back the Eternal City (Carus wants too as well, but he's surrounded by barbarians). The Goths (specifically, the Thervings) are in the Balkans because no one has made them leave. Their currently the weakest of the Sub-Roman states, as they have no unified leadership, but they're being reinforced by the Heruli and Greuthings, so that might not last. The Suebi, Marcomanni, and Quadi are being pressured by the Vandals.

Keep in mind that we're only two years since Gallienus died, so anything could happen. Thanks for your comments. though.

jmberry

May 31st, 2009, 07:10 PM

Anybody else want to comment?

steven24gordon

June 1st, 2009, 09:31 AM

I was thinking about your PoD and your premise over the weekend and would perhaps suggest that a 261 victory by Macrianus and his son in Thrace against Gallienus' general Aureolus might not be the best PoD for the purposes you outlined in your poll. After this ATL victory Macrianus (having received the support of the Illyrian and Pannonian legions) would be in a very strong enough position. If Macrianus had defeated Aureolus then he would have defeated the new mobile calvery regiments that Gallienus had put together. Without these formiable calveriers, I doubt that Gallienus could bounce back and defeat Marcianus later in 262. His position was extremely fragile in the Balkans at this stage and if he lost a major battle in Thrace against his rival, I think the bulk of his troops might desert to the winning side. In fact Gallienus might get himself murdered by his own troops (who would want to demonstrate their loyalty to the victorious Macrianus and gain amnesty).

With Macrianus victorious in Thrace, this will make it difficult for Odenathus to defeat Quietus as the cities of Syria would still support Quietus. In fact Odenathus would probably switch his support from the nearly-vanquished Gallienus to the almost-triumphant Quietus. Or he might seek an alliance with Persia (something he tried for earlier in his reign) against Quietus.

I don't think Aureolous would survive the battle in 261, or if he did then he probably wouldn’t end up at Ravenna. Anyway my point is that with Macrianus and his son victorious in 261, I think they go on to conquer Italia and establish themselves at Rome. As a result we don’t get the usurpations you describe. But then again maybe I am wrong, it is a highly debatable subject as we don't have very good historical records from that era. And obviously you have thought out this process pretty thoroughly and far be it from me to make unhelpful comments concerning your PoD. But then again you did ask for feedback.

As a guy who has an amateur interest in Roman history, I am very interested in your TL and look forward to following it. I find the idea of Marcionite successor state fascinating although I think that Gnosticism may be a little obscure to be a state religion (although again I may be wrong). Anyway don't let my comments and criticisms distract from what I am sure will be grand TL.

Actually I was thinking about starting a new ATL and your TL and its premise has inspired a certain idea in me. Therefore let me present you with some over-the-weekend-thinking I did on the subject:

In 267 barbarians burst into Greece and Macedonia, the most brutal of these intruders were the Goths and their Heruli allies who sacked Athens, burning and stripping its temples, setting aflame the Stoa of Attalus and turning the heart of the city into a desert. But the Athenians weren’t the only ones to feel the blight of the barbarians, the Goths roved over fair Greece spilling into her valleys and despoiling her towns. Corinth, Argos and Sparta felt the Gothic knife and even Olympia (the seat of the prestigious and ancient games) was raided. Having sated their bloodlust, the Goths retired northeastward. Either at the Nestus River (Syncellus) or farther north at Naissus (Zosimus), they fought the Romans and lost. Wherever the battle was (or battles as some historians believe there were two separate battles not one single one) it was an impressive one, Zosimus says that 50,000 barbarians were killed.
But what-if the Romans had lost in a manner to mirror the defeat of Decius at the Battle of Abrittus (Hisarlak, near Razgrad). Gallienus is killed, the barbarians victorious and laughing at Rome as they made their way through the mountains towards their homelands laden with the riches of Greece.

The sudden death of Gallienus will shock the Empire and in this moment of incredulity, men will realise that this would be an excellent time to try usurping the throne. After their stunning defeat, the Illyricum legions would declare one of their own to the purple (probably Claudius or Aurelian or Cecropius if they weren’t killed along with Gallienus). Aureolus, the skilled leader of Gallienus’ new mobile cavalry troops, will be affronted at this decision and will either declare himself emperor or declare for the Emperor of the Imperium Galliarum Postumus (like OTL). Marching from his base in western Austria, Aureolus will probably establish himself at Milan in northern Italia (like OTL). It is difficult to know if the Senate will support him, they certainly didn’t like his master Gallienus (who had show them great contempt) and may not look down on him for this reason. On the other hand, whatever they’re feelings they probably will be relatively unable to influence events.

Weakened after their losses at Nestus/Naissus, the Illyricum armies would not have an easy time defeating Aureolus (unlike OTL), and after fighting some bloody battles along the Po, they will retreat towards Aquileia. However Aureolus will not be able to capitalise on this victory as he now faces the savage Alemanni. He had invited the Alemanni into northern Italia to help him against the Illyrians (just like OTL) but now that they were inside the Empire they had betrayed him (in the same way that Titus Julius Priscus was betrayed by the Goths). Given the losses Aureolus has just suffered against his Illyrian adversaries, it is doubtful that he can mirror Claudius’ OTL massacre of the Alemanni at Lake Benacus. But Aureolous’ troubles with the Alemanni do not give the Illyrian legions a chance for a comeback either: fresh Gothic hordes will sweep into the Balkans in 268 (not only would these invasions be greater in scale than OTL but the invaders would find the lands south of the Danube more undefended than OTL). Indeed, given this threat, the Illyrians may murder their chosen emperor and embrace Aureolus. This would make Aureolus Augustus of much of Italia, Africa and the Balkans, but with the Alemanni ravaging the rich lands of northern Italia just like the Goths had burnt and vandalized Greece, he is not enjoying his new position.

Now who is the real winner in all this? Postumus would be keen to take advantage of the succession battles. He may offer to share the Emperor with Aureolus as co-regent, or at least declare Aureolus his successor (or appoint him to some other important imperial post). But how long would Postumus or the Gallic Empire survive? In OTL, he 269 he was murdered by his own troops because he wouldn’t let them loot the rebellious city of Mainz. Without Postumus, the Empire of the Gauls began to fall apart with various usurpers competing for the title of Gallic Emperor while the whole structured weakened and cracked.
The real winner I think will be Palmyra. While the Roman legions were hacking each other to pieces, Odenathus and later Zenobia, would be consolidating their recently gained control over large parts of Asia Minor, Syria and Palestine. Given the distractions and turmoil in Europe, Zenobia could probably seize Egypt at her leisure without fear of a Roman reprisal. After the current phase of disunity is over, the Romans may be able to eventually rise up one of their own who would be strong enough to beat back the barbarians and establish a degree of stability. The Roman army was still a relatively effective machine and could produce warriors equal to this task. But by that time this Arabian trading city would have become too tough a nut to crack and the East would have been lost forever.

Any thoughts?

jmberry

June 1st, 2009, 09:21 PM

rcduggan

June 2nd, 2009, 01:01 PM

Good start, jmberry. A few comments based on my knowledge of this particular era (from researching for a very similar TL):

The Alamanni had no interest at all in founding a kingdom in Italy. Their attacks against Rome were simply opportunistic raids for plunder and loot. For most of their history, the Alamanni were disorganized and divided into various tribes seldom united under a common ruler. This hindered their development and expansion. However, ITTL I could see them settling in all of Raetia, as well as the mountainous region of northern Italia. But creating a "Kingdom of Italia" would be unprecedented and unlikely.
If Aureoulus getting killed by the Alamanni is implausible, how about having him die in battle with the Macriani as part of the POD?
FWIW, there were several North Africans who could become emperor ITTL: Memor, for example, or Mussius Aemilianus.
I really can't see why the Palmyrene Empire would want to expand into Greece. In OTL they didn't even expand into all of Asia Minor. And in any case, I think that that would serve as a good natural boundary. But the Palmyrenes would have much more to worry about in the east: namely the Sassanids. The Persian Empire had just been revived under a series of strong rulers. Also, keep in mind that only a year or two before the POD, Shapur I had been campaigning in Anatolia and building Zoroastrian temples in Armenia. The Sassanids were just emerging at this time and were equal in strength to the Palmyrenes (if not even more powerful). Persia is going to bounce back very quickly from the fall of Ctesiphon, and life will become very hard for the Palmyrene Empire.

jmberry

June 3rd, 2009, 09:21 PM

Okay, I've looked into the period and figures a bit more thoroughley, and here's a summary of 265-300, superceding what I had previously:

Steven24gordon's suggested POD of the Battle of Naissus is the new POD, with Gallienus dying in battle. The remnant Roman Empire is divided over who should succeed him, with Aureolus racing to Rome to have himself crowned while the Illyrians raise Carus to the purple. The two forces fight each other to a draw, partly because they both have barbarian invasions to worry about (the Alammani in Italy and the Therving Goths in Thrace and Moesia). After a year of fruitless conflict Aureolus and Carus declare each other Co-Emperor. Aureolus then has a falling out with Heraclinus. Heraclinus flees to Carthage with his two main supporters, Marcus Aurelius Claudius (Claudius Gothicus) and Lucius Domitius Aurelianus (Aurelian). The Africans and Italians fight each other to a standstill as well, at which point Aureolus decides to cut his losses. Heraclinus, Postumus, and Zenobia are acknowledged as Caesar-level rulers, while the Goths and Alammani are granted foedorati status in Thrace and Rhaetia (respectively). Most of the Cisdanubian has to be abandoned, and the Suebi, Quadi, Marcomanni, and Iazyges move in.

In Illyria Carus and his sons die out and are replaced by Diocles, who proves able to keep the nation alive against barbarian raids. Zenobia passes on and is succeeded by Vaballathus. Chrocus dies in 306, and because the Alammani fall into infighting Rhaetia is conquered by Gaul. The Gallic Empire and Illyria ally with each other, first driving the Germans out of the Cisdanubian, and then Illyria invades Italy with Gallic help. Africa gets in on the act late and takes Sicily and South Italy. The Huns show up and begin doing their thing, driving the remaining Goths into Moesia and Thrace while the Vandals begin to cross the Danube (hastening the fall of the Suebi and such).

So, does this sound more plausible than before?

steven24gordon

June 4th, 2009, 01:50 PM

The big difference between the Roman Empire in the 3rd century and the Roman Empire in the 5th is how de-centralised the former is compared to the later. With a collapse earlier, we would not see a system collapse as we saw in the Western Empire towards the mid 5th century because in the 3rd century the centre is very weak. The aristocracy has not been broken in by the power of the state and local elites would become stronger in this ATL. Some cities would perish in the collapse but others would bounce back from the "breakdown" stronger than before. During the OTL 5th century collapse, outside actors (the Germans) took over the role of the imperial government. In the 3rd century, the barbarians are more disorganised and wouldn't be able to act in the same way as their 5th century counterparts. Thus, I believe (although I may be wrong) that if the Roman Empire was to collapse in the 3rd century then localized actors would take over the duties of the imperium. This would be interesting. Any thoughts?

As to whether you can have the Alamanni become the power behind the throne in a Roman-Italia&Africa splinter state? I would say: not at the moment. The Alamanni are very very disorganised at this stage. There are no kings strong enough to play the role that 5th century Germanic kings played. Obviously through their close contact with Rome institutions, the Alamanni would eventually evolve strong traditions of centralised leadership. But at the moment their "democratic" traditions stand in the way of this barbarian group playing imperial politics effectively. Moreover this barbarian “democracy” may prevent them from taking over the functions of the imperial state in areas they control. But then again, maybe I am wrong. Any thoughts?

jmberry

June 8th, 2009, 04:21 AM

Well, I'm going to post a revised version of the timeline, probably tomorrow. This time the POD will be in 267 and the post will run to 277. It will basically follow the outline I detailed in my previous post.

steven24gordon

June 8th, 2009, 02:08 PM

After thinking about the premise of your PoD and your last post (and doing a little reading on the Empire in the 3rd century), I have put together a short ATL of my own mine to assist with the creation of this epic TL series. I hope it helps.

268
Gallienus and Aurelian are killed while fighting the Goths (April) [the PoD]. Marcus Aurelius Claudius is proclaimed Emperor by the Illyrian legions. Gallienus’ cavalry commander Manius Acilius Aureolus refuses to recognise Claudius and rebels at Milan. As Claudius marches westward, Aureolus invites the Alamanni into Italia to help him against his rival. The two usurpers engage each other in a series of battles along the Po, but Claudius is unable to defeat Aureolus and retreats to Aquileia. Postumus recognises Aureolus as co-emperor: Roman Empire is divided between Postumus in Gaul and Aureolus in Italia. Upon hearing of the alliance with Postumus, Claudius’ own troops murder him in exchange for amnesty (November). The Alamanni break their alliance with Aureolus and raid northern Italy.

269
Postumus celebrates the tenth year of his reign, and rewards his troops with money donated by Aureolus.
The Goths attack several cities on the Black Sea coast, before entering the Aegean and besieging Thessalonica. The Heruli capture Athens. Aureolus concludes a treaty with the Alamanni so he can march east, giving the barbarians gold and hostages in exchange for peace. Aureolus manages to defeat the Goths near Pharalus but Dacia and the lands along the Danube are lost.
While at Corinth, Aureolus recognises Palmyrene control over Antioch, Egypt, parts of Asia Minor, and re-affirming Vaballathus’ titles dux Romanorum and corrector totius orientis (both sovereigns are depicted on double-headed coins at Alexandria and Antioch).

270
While at Sirmium, Aureolus dies of plague (January). The Senate proclaims Aureolus’ son Marianus emperor, but after a short reign (a few days to a month) he is killed by his own praetorian guard, who proclaimed the infamous soldier and general Vibius Passienus to the purple.
Sudden death of Postumus from natural causes (or poisoning), the legions in German Superior proclaim their commander Laelianus emperor but the Senate (established by Postumus) at Trier declare for Maximianus, one of Postumus’ fellow offices.
With the defences of Raetia weakened by the rebellion of the Germanic legions and Aureolus dead, the Alamanni break their treaty with Rome (again) and raid northern Italia (again). As pressure on the western Alpine frontier mounts, the Sarmatians, Iuthungi and Vandals invade. Verona, Salona and Bononia are sacked.

271
In January, Valerian initiates the construction of the walls of Rome, Athens, Milete, Nikaia, Pisaurum and Fanum. Dacia is evacuated, and the troops are pulled back to protect Macedonia. Passienus fights the Sarmatians, Alamanni, Iuthungi and Vandals in Italia, expelling them.
Laelianus is murdered by his own troops while besieging Colonia (Cologne) and his rebellion ends. Maximianus begins to pull back troops from the Lower Rhine.

272
The Alamanni besiege Milan, the city gates are reportedly opened by a Christian, and the barbarians despoil the city. Valerian begins a short-lived persecution against the Christians in Rome: public execution of the Bishop of Rome. Passienus defeats an Alamanni army a mile from the gates of the Eternal City, earning the title Germanicus Maximus.
Death of Shapur I, king of Persia. He is succeeded by his son Hormizd I.

273
New Gothic raids into Macedonia defeated by Valerian’s new cavalry commander Tenagino Probus.
Maximianus I elevates his son Maximianus II to Caesar, breaking with Passienus in Rome, the Gallic and Roman Empires once again at war.
Death of Hormizd I, king of Persia. He is succeeded by his brother Bahram I. The death of the Persian king prompts Palmyra to invade by way of Armenia. Marching down the Tigris, the Palmyrenes under Zabdas defeat the armies of Bahram, and sack the Persian capital Ctesiphon. Bahram I commits suicide, Bahram II becomes King of Kings in Persia.

274
With Passienus’ armies weakened by constant warfare, Maximianus I invades and defeats Passienus near Milan. While Passienus surrenders to Maximianus, the legions at Rome refuse to submit and declare for Probus who had proclaimed himself Emperor at Thessalonica. Another battle is fought near Ticinum, and the pro-Probus legions are defeated at great cost. Maximianus I takes control of Italia.

275
Maximianus II is made co-emperor and given control of Africa, Italia and supposedly the Balkans, with his capital at Rome. Maximianus I returns to Trier to secure the Rhine against new Frankish assaults. Maximianus II (or his ministers) oversee the work of Passienus in pushing the barbarians back from northern Italia. A mint workers strike in Rome (supported by the senate) turns into an urban uprising (winter) and in the violence Maximianus II is killed. Upon hearing of the young Emperor’s death, soldiers in northern Italia abandoned their posts and marched to Rome and in five days of terrible bloodshed massacred the rebels and executed many of the senate.

276
Probus allies himself with Palmyra (war is declared between the Roman and Palmyrene Empires) and successfully defeats Goths invading Macedonia. Joint Roman-Palmyrene operations against barbarian pirates, the general Zabdas fights Goths in Cilicia and Heruli in Cappadocia. Food riots in Rome as Zenobia stops the gain shipments that supply the public dole. Maximianus II is murdered (June) by mutinous troops while fighting the Franks, Longiones and Alamanni in Gaul. He is succeeded for 66 days by the commander of the Rhine fleet Carausius who proclaims himself emperor in Cologne. Carausius successfully defends Trier from a Frankish assault but is assassinated while attending the theatre at Durocortorum (Rheims). For weeks after Carausius' death, there is no emperor, and Carausius' widow the augusta Claudia rules in her own right. Marcus Censorinus is then elected by the Senate at Trier to succeed Carausius.

277-9
Censorinus defeats the Alamanni and pushes them back across the Rhine. Censorinus settles Burgundians and Vandals in Raetia in exchange for an alliance against the Alamanni. Probus expels Sarmatians from Dalmatia, and grants the Goths and Heruli the right to settle in Moesia in exchange for peace. Palmyrene legions are defeated and their general Zabdas killed while suppressing an Isaurian rebellion. The Isaurians loot Ephesus, Magnesia and Smyrna.

280
The people of Lugdunum support the usurpation of Flavius Aurelius, but he is betrayed by his Frankish allies, handed over to Censorinus and executed. New food riots in Rome prompt the praefectus praetorio Trebellianus to declare himself Emperor with the backing of the senate.

281
Anti-Palmyrene usurpation of Numerius in Syria, probably to satisfy his troops, who however murder him before Zenobia can react.
Trebellianus concludes a treaty with the Alamanni against Censorinus. Governor of Autun revolts in favour of Trebellianus, who dispatches an army to aid the rebels but later recalls his troops after losing a few skirmishes against Censorinus.

282
While preparing for war with Persia, Vaballathus deposes his mother Zenobia for her supposed involvement in the rebellion of Numerius.
Joint Palmyrene and Armenian offensive against Persia, death of Bahram II. Palmyra strengthens her control over Mesopotamia.
Siege at Autun broken when Censorinus’ soldiers destroy the city’s adequate.
Riots over food shortages at Rome blossom into city-wide revolt, rebels take control of the Caelian Hill. Trebellianus’ troops end the insurrection and massacre 30,000 of the rebels.

283
Probus and his Gothic ally Berig defeat Sarmatians on the Danube: Gothic confederation under Berig begins to take shape in Moesia and northern Thracia.
The Alamanni break with Trebellianus and raid Gallia Cisalpina. Trebellianus breaks up a senatorial plot against him, senate purged.
Censorinus defeats the Quadi and other barbarians in Germania Superior. Franks granted the right to settle in Germania Inferior.

284
Increased pressure on the Rhine frontier, Censorinus begins to withdraw legions from Britannia: Saxon pirates intensify raids along British coast.
Mausaeus Carausius Sabinus revolts against Probus in Pannonia. Bastarnae invited into (and later granted settlement in) Pannonia in exchange for deposing of Sabinus.
Trebellianus is defeated by the Alamanni under their king Gunderic and is killed in an ambush. The Alamanni march into central Italia and besiege Rome. The wife of the murdered senator Cornelius Licinius Saloninus reportedly opens the gates to Gunderic. Sack of Rome.

jmberry

June 9th, 2009, 09:30 PM

Well, here is the revised start of the TL:

268
Gallienus and Aurelian are defeated and killed by the Goths at Naissus. Aureleos, having already declared himself Augustus the previous year, is confirmed in that role by the Senate. The Illyrian legions proclaim Marcus Aurelius Claudius Augustus in dispute of this. However, both men have barbarians to deal with (The Alamanni and Goths, respectively). Postumus, meanwhile, invades the province of Rhaetia and re-annexes it to Gaul. In the midst of all of this, Bishop Dionysius of Rome dies, the first such man to die a natural death.

269
Emperor Aureleos defeats the Alamanni at Florentia [Florence] and settles them in the Alpine regions of Cisalpine Gaul. Aureleos then meets with Dionysius's succesor Felix, who gans from him a garuantee that Gallienus's lenient policies with the Christians would continue. In Illyria, Claudius is able to defeat the Goths at Sirmium. They are too strong for him to dislodge, however, so he grants them land in Dacia and Moesia. Claudius then recognizes Vaballathus's suzerainty over Syria, Palestine, Cappadocia, and Egypt. Postumus elevates his own son, Postumus Minor, to the rank of Caesar.

270
With his flanks secure, Claudius invades Italy. Aureleos requests help from Postumus. The Gallic Emperor, in exchange for being recognized as co-Augustus, agrees. The two armies meet near Verona, with the forces loyal to Aureleos and Postumus defeating Claudius. Claudius makes plans to re-invade Italy, but dies of his wounds before the year is out, leaving Illyria to his brother Quintillus. Before Quintillus can do anything, an invasion of Suebi, Marcomanni, Quadi, and Sarmatians forces him to abandon Italy.

271
Inflation begins to run rampant in the Roman Empire. Because of the devaulement of payment, Quintillus is murdered by his own gaurds, who raise Marcus Numerius Carus to the purple. Aureleos begins construction of a new wall to defend Rome with.

272
Shapur I dies, and is succeeded by Hormizd I. Carus sees his domain is broken, and surrenders everything from Sirmium north to the Barbarians. Postumus, meanwhile, has Denis, Bishop of Lutetia, executed for "subversive teachings." Postumus would die with a month of Denis from food poisoning, though the Church would claim it was divine retribution. A power struggle develops between Postumus Minor and Victorianus. To secure her own power, Zenobia negotiates an alliance with Axum.

steven24gordon

June 10th, 2009, 11:20 AM

The way I see it, we have three or four separate Roman successor states forming at the moment: one in Gaul and Spain, one in Syria and Egypt under the Palmyra, one in Illyricum and Anatolia, and maybe one in Africa and Italia. Let us discuss them in turn:

A “Gallic” state could evolve as the Roman legions pull back from the Rhine. Germanic migrations will break down the traditional Germanic-Rhine frontier and the invading barbarians will settle in Germania Inferior, Belgica, Germania Superior and parts of Gallia Lugdunensis. The Gallic imperial government may even sanction this, trading land for peace in Northern France. The new defensive line could be the Lorraine although the military dynamics of this new Gallic state will be quite different from the old. Aquitania, Narbonensis, and Spain will probably escape the worst of the violence (although sea pirates and Moors will do some damage) and will lead the Roman recover (if there is one). Britannia could be nominally part of a Gallic Empire, but cut off from imperial support and beset by Saxon pirates it is doubtful whether the local Romanized elites there could hold-the-line.

The Palmyrenne successor state will be interesting as these guys have a good shot at conquering much of Arabia and that will certainly change history. This would also be a big boost for Hellenism in the East (although that was on the increase anyway) as the Arab lords at Palmyra like to be surrounded by Hellenic philosophers and poets. Then again one could ask how long a Palmyrenne state would last against the militant and elegiac Sassanids. Indeed, the Sassanids may conquer Palmyra along with Syria and Egypt, reversing the conquests of Alexander. Another interesting possibility would to have the reverse happen and have Palmyra seize Mesopotamia: in the 3rd century the Sassanid dynasty was still it in its infancy, if Palmyra dealt it some bad defeats their house could fall and Persia as a nation might splinter.

The Illyrian legions could hold parts of Greece and maintain Anatolia in a Roman successor state, especially if they could get the Isaurians on board. Palmyra will be distracted by wars against Persia and may allow or encourage a sister state to develop to her western border. On the other hand, the Illyrians will be under enormous pressures from a range of angles and wouldn’t have that many resources to call upon (although they will have the best fighting men in the Empire). Maybe their state will fall apart before its even gotten going. If it does then Macedonia and Greece will eventually go to the Goths while Anatolia will be divided up: Maybe Phrygia, Galatia and Bithynia fall to the Isaurians, Cilicia and maybe Lycia taken over by Palmyra and the Armenians may extend their authority to Pontus and Cappadocia.

Then there is Italia, with Raetia and Noricum overrun by barbarians, the Italian peninsula is probably going to be invaded again and again. Italy had been losing its importance as an imperial centre for awhile now and a collapse of central authority will probably reflect that. In the OTL 5th century collapse, Rome sold off its territories to various barbarian groups to preserve the centre. However, the ATL 3rd century collapse occurs when the empire is far more de-centralised and that stratagem is just not an option. The north (if not the whole) of the country will be devastated and may even acquire a large number of barbarian settlers. Moreover without the public dole the famous city of Rome will shrink in size and grandeur, and most of the Italian elite may flee to Africa. While some kind of Italian Roman successor state is certainly possible, given the dire straits of the times, such a state will be a shadow of its former self.

And what about Christianity? This religion was certainly growing during the 3rd century and it may become the sovereign religion of a successor state or two. Indeed, I once read a thread about Christianity becoming the state-religion of Persia as a result of Constantine not triumphing at the Milvian Bridge. But then again how unified is the 3rd century Christian community? During this volatile period, Christianity could be seen not so much as a single religion but as a collection of competing sects. Imagine a Docetist, Marcionist, Monarchianist or Montanist state? On the other hand, a lot of other religions were popular throughout the Empire in the 3rd century and Mithras, Sol Invictus or Isis could easily replace Christianity as the state-religion of choice in many parts of the Mediterranean. In terms of what happens to Europe, it might be interesting (and telling) to think about what happens in Africa, which is bound to become the intellectual heartland of the ATL Western Mediterranean (well as long as whoever is running Africa can keep the Moors at bay).

jmberry

June 10th, 2009, 09:15 PM

The way I see it, we have three or four separate Roman successor states forming at the moment: one in Gaul and Spain, one in Syria and Egypt under the Palmyra, one in Illyricum and Anatolia, and maybe one in Africa and Italia. Let us discuss them in turn:

A “Gallic” state could evolve as the Roman legions pull back from the Rhine. Germanic migrations will break down the traditional Germanic-Rhine frontier and the invading barbarians will settle in Germania Inferior, Belgica, Germania Superior and parts of Gallia Lugdunensis. The Gallic imperial government may even sanction this, trading land for peace in Northern France. The new defensive line could be the Lorraine although the military dynamics of this new Gallic state will be quite different from the old. Aquitania, Narbonensis, and Spain will probably escape the worst of the violence (although sea pirates and Moors will do some damage) and will lead the Roman recover (if there is one). Britannia could be nominally part of a Gallic Empire, but cut off from imperial support and beset by Saxon pirates it is doubtful whether the local Romanized elites there could hold-the-line.

The Palmyrenne successor state will be interesting as these guys have a good shot at conquering much of Arabia and that will certainly change history. This would also be a big boost for Hellenism in the East (although that was on the increase anyway) as the Arab lords at Palmyra like to be surrounded by Hellenic philosophers and poets. Then again one could ask how long a Palmyrenne state would last against the militant and elegiac Sassanids. Indeed, the Sassanids may conquer Palmyra along with Syria and Egypt, reversing the conquests of Alexander. Another interesting possibility would to have the reverse happen and have Palmyra seize Mesopotamia: in the 3rd century the Sassanid dynasty was still it in its infancy, if Palmyra dealt it some bad defeats their house could fall and Persia as a nation might splinter.

The Illyrian legions could hold parts of Greece and maintain Anatolia in a Roman successor state, especially if they could get the Isaurians on board. Palmyra will be distracted by wars against Persia and may allow or encourage a sister state to develop to her western border. On the other hand, the Illyrians will be under enormous pressures from a range of angles and wouldn’t have that many resources to call upon (although they will have the best fighting men in the Empire). Maybe their state will fall apart before its even gotten going. If it does then Macedonia and Greece will eventually go to the Goths while Anatolia will be divided up: Maybe Phrygia, Galatia and Bithynia fall to the Isaurians, Cilicia and maybe Lycia taken over by Palmyra and the Armenians may extend their authority to Pontus and Cappadocia.

Then there is Italia, with Raetia and Noricum overrun by barbarians, the Italian peninsula is probably going to be invaded again and again. Italy had been losing its importance as an imperial centre for awhile now and a collapse of central authority will probably reflect that. In the OTL 5th century collapse, Rome sold off its territories to various barbarian groups to preserve the centre. However, the ATL 3rd century collapse occurs when the empire is far more de-centralised and that stratagem is just not an option. The north (if not the whole) of the country will be devastated and may even acquire a large number of barbarian settlers. Moreover without the public dole the famous city of Rome will shrink in size and grandeur, and most of the Italian elite may flee to Africa. While some kind of Italian Roman successor state is certainly possible, given the dire straits of the times, such a state will be a shadow of its former self.

And what about Christianity? This religion was certainly growing during the 3rd century and it may become the sovereign religion of a successor state or two. Indeed, I once read a thread about Christianity becoming the state-religion of Persia as a result of Constantine not triumphing at the MilvianBridge. But then again how unified is the 3rd century Christian community? During this volatile period, Christianity could be seen not so much as a single religion but as a collection of competing sects. Imagine a Docetist, Marcionist, Monarchianist or Montanist state? On the other hand, a lot of other religions were popular throughout the Empire in the 3rd century and Mithras, Sol Invictus or Isis could easily replace Christianity as the state-religion of choice in many parts of the Mediterranean. In terms of what happens to Europe, it might be interesting (and telling) to think about what happens in Africa, which is bound to become the intellectual heartland of the ATL Western Mediterranean (well as long as whoever is running Africa can keep the Moors at bay).
I'll won't give away too much, but your correct on some accounts, and way off on others on the political spectrum.

As for religion, I don't see the Sassanids becoming Christians - one of their main points was a fanatical devotion to Zoroastrianism.

Anyway, the next three years are coming up in a few minutes.

jmberry

June 10th, 2009, 09:40 PM

273
Carus, deciding he needs to regain the Orient in order to gain Rome, launches an invasion of Palmyra. Zenobia requests aid from Hormizd, only to find out he had died. His brother, Bahram I, has no interest in a stronger Rome, and agrees to help Palmyra. The combined Perseo-Palmyrene force crushes Carus at Mazaca, and again at Ancyra, where Carus and his son Numerius are killed.

Back in Palmyra, Zenobia recieves a delegation from India, and establishes several profitable trade deals. In Italy, Aureolos dies, and the Seante proclaims one of their own, Marcus Claudius Tacitus, as Emperor.

In Gaul, Victorianus defeats Postumus Minor at Cenabum [Orleans], which he renames "Victorianum" in his honor. News of this victory is marred, however, by news that Spain has risen up under Caius Pius Esuvius Tetricus.

274
Germanic Tribes, principally Franks and Burgundii, cross the Rhine to take advantage of the Gallic Civil War.

In Illyria, Carus's son Carinus is deposed by Marcus Aurelius Probus, who sues for peace with the Easterners. Everything East of the Halys River is to be surrendered to Persia and Palmyra, while everything west to the Aegean becomes an idependent Isaurian Kingdom, ruled by Bahram's brother Narseh.

In Rome, Bishop Felix I dies.

275
In Rome, Valentine succeds Felix as the 27th Bishop of Rome.

In Gaul, Victorianus claims to recieve a vision form the Unconquerable Sun, that he would rule over "Imperium Sine Fine." He then goes on to lead his legions to defeat Postumus Minor at Lutetia, the Franks at Remi, and Tetricus at Burdigala.

Palmyra begins to exert its power, conquering and dividing Meroetic Nubia with Axum.

jmberry

June 11th, 2009, 03:16 AM

Sorry about the shortness of the last post. The library I was using closed down for the night, so I had to leave. Here's everything up to 284:

276
In Persia, Bahram dies and is succeded by his son, Bahram II. One of his first actions is to begin a purge of the followers of Mani, many of whom flee to Isauria and Palmyra. Mani himself dies in prison.

In Gothia, two distinct groups of Goths have formed - the Visigoths, who live primarily in Moesia and North Thrace, and the Ostrogoths, who live in Dacia and Scythia. Missionaries belonging to the Marcionite branch of Christianity have begun moving among the Visigoths, bringing many converts to their faith.

In Gaul, Victorianus crushes the last opposition to his rule at Toletum, where he builds a shrine to Sol Invictus, making it the unofficial state religion of the Gallic Empire.

Also in this year, General Zabdas attempted to lead a coup against Zenobia and Vaballathus, but was killed before it came to pass.

277
In this year, Victorianus enacted many military and monetary reforms to stabilize the Gallic Empire. He also settled Frankish and Burgundian mercnaries in Spain and Gaul and moved the capital from Augusta Trevorum to his own city at Victorianum.

the Agri Decumentes are abandoned during this year, and the North Alamanni and Thuringii move in to take the Romans' place.

In Illyria, Probus begins construction of new defensive walls in Sirmium, Naissus, Salona, Athens, Byzantium, and Thessalonica.

278
The Vandals begin crossing the Danube, putting pressure on the Suebi and other Cisdanubian barbarians. At the same time, Alans begin moving into Ostrogoth territory.

In Gaul, Victorianus begins a purge of Christians for not following the Sol Invictine faith. Many flee to Britain, were Gaulish rule is lax, or Italy and Africa.

279
The Suebi move into Illyrian territory, where the are defeated by Probus. The defeat is quite brutal, and the Suebi, Quadi, and Marcomanni are largel subsumed into the Vandals. Beyond the Danube, the Rugians begin moving into territory abandoned by the Vandals.

King Narseh begins his own purge of Manicheans in Isauria. Many travel to Greece, and some even arrive in Africa.

280
Tacitus and his brother Florian are overthrown by a Ligurian named Proculus. Proculus is only half succesful, because the African legions raise Julius Saturninus to the purple.

Alans begin raiding Asia Minor, mcuh to the annoyance of Persia.

In Gaul, Bonosus attempts to overthrow Victorianus, but is promptly hung.

Meanwhile, the Palmyrenes begin a concerted campaign to bring Arabia Nabataea into their empire.

281
A naval battle between the Italians and Africans leads to heavy casualties on both sides, leaving Proculus and Saturninus at an impasse. Saturninus begins to consider an alliance with Probus.

In Arabia, the last holdouts fall to the Palmyrene forces. Vaballathus begins to take a stronger role in his own kingdom.

282
Probus agrees to Saturninus's proposal, and begins plans to invade Italia.

In Gaul, Victorinus I dies, and his succeeded by his son, Victorianus II. This time, no one disagrees.

Vaballathus reaches his majority, and "convinces" his mother to retire to Edessa.

283
Vaballathus assures Patriarch Theonas of Alexandria that his mother's policy of toleration for Christians will continue.

Probus and Saturninus launch joint invasions of Italia. Probus's foray is initially succesful, until he's ambushed by Chrocus and the Italian Alammani, whom Proculus had bribed with more land. Probus is killed in the ensuing battle.

In Southern Italia, Proculus and Saturninus fight each other to a standstill at Capua. Hearing of Probus's defeat, Saturninus decides to cut his losses, and retreats to Calabria.

In the Balkans, the Visigoths, taking advantage of the turmoil in Illyria, invade South Thrace.

284
After considerable turmoil, the Illyrians raise Diocles to the purple, partly due to the influence of his friend Maximian. He prompty makes peace with Proculus, and surrenders more of Thrace to the Goths, leaving only the coast and the area around Byzantium and Adrianople.

In Gaul, the Baguadae raise up in revolt, leading to a campaign against them by Victorianus II and his second-in-command, Carausius.

Saturninus also seeks peace with Proculus, gainign Sicilia and Calabria in exchange for recognizing Proculus as Augustus.

DuQuense

June 11th, 2009, 03:30 AM

262
Gallienus diverts more troops to the east to defeat the Macriani, abandoning Rhaetia to Postumus. [3]
The Goths enter the Balkans, sack Byzantium, then move on to pillage Asia and Greece.
I thought Byzantium wasn't founded till the 300's, ? Isn't the Site 260's a little fishing village called Istanbul?
284
Increased pressure on the Rhine frontier, Censorinus begins to withdraw legions from Britannia: Saxon pirates intensify raids along British coast. Britannia could be nominally part of a Gallic Empire, but cut off from imperial support and beset by Saxon pirates it is doubtful whether the local Romanized elites there could hold-the-line.
I looked at Euratlas 300 AD [ http://www.euratlas.com/travel_time/europe_north_west_0300.html ]
This is Not the Saxon nation of 500~600 -- The Saxones are nothing but a minor German tribe at this time.
While a few men may go Viking, It is nothing the much more organized Gauls or Britons, can't easily handle even if involved elsewhere.

8Deer

June 11th, 2009, 03:44 AM

I thought Byzantium wasn't founded till the 300's, ? Isn't the Site 260's a little fishing village called Istanbul?

No, it was definately founded before that, BC I'm pretty sure.

Edit: It was founded in 667 BC by Greeks.

Anyways, the TL is looking very interesting.

jmberry

June 11th, 2009, 03:45 PM

I thought Byzantium wasn't founded till the 300's, ? Isn't the Site 260's a little fishing village called Istanbul?

I looked at Euratlas 300 AD [ http://www.euratlas.com/travel_time/europe_north_west_0300.html ]
This is Not the Saxon nation of 500~600 -- The Saxones are nothing but a minor German tribe at this time.
While a few men may go Viking, It is nothing the much more organized Gauls or Britons, can't easily handle even if involved elsewhere.
First off, neither of those posts are part of the timeline. The first one came from a discarded earlier version, the second one was posted by someone else entirely.

On the first point, Byzantium was founded in the BC period. In the 300s, Constantine burned it for supporting Licinius, and then rebuilt it as Constantinople. It wasn't called Istanbul until the Turks took it, and that didn't become its official name until 1920.

As for the Saxons, they haven't played much role in the TL yet, though we're around the time when the coast of Kent became the "Saxon Shore."

jmberry

June 12th, 2009, 09:31 PM

Well, a map will be coming up tonight, once I work out all the kinks.

jmberry

June 13th, 2009, 01:30 AM

And here it is!

jmberry

June 13th, 2009, 11:20 PM

I was hoping the map would generate at least one comment :(.

Ah well, some more will be coming up tomorrow.

Jaded_Railman

June 13th, 2009, 11:44 PM

rcduggan

June 14th, 2009, 02:18 PM

I was hoping the map would generate at least one comment :(.

Ah well, some more will be coming up tomorrow.
An interesting story, jmberry: for my timeline based on a similar premise (POD in 260, surviving Gallic Empire but not Palmyrene), I used the exact same base map. It's funny to see how many similarities our maps possess, especially in my predictions map of what my TL would look like centuries later.

Some things are a bit iffy though: the random giant Isauria, the defenseless African hold on southern Italy, the Vandal protrusion south of the Vistula, and how the Sassanids can expand into Anatolia but not the Levant.
Looks good overall though.

jmberry

June 16th, 2009, 01:54 AM

Short update for today. Hopefully we'll get to 300:

285
Victorianus II continues his pacification of the Baguadae in Gaul. Diocles begins his own war, invading Iazygia. To the east, Bahram II invades the Kingdom of Egrisi, beginning a protracted five year campaign. Carausius begins commiting piracy of Gallic ships.

286
Victorianus, taking a break from destroying the Baguadae and martyring Crispen and Crispian, orders the arrest of Carausius for piracy. Carausius responds by seizing control of Britain and parts of Belgica.

Diocles finally deals a crushing blow to the Iazyges. Iazygia west of the Danube is brought back into Illyria, while the Eastern Iazyges are absorbed into the Goths. At the same time, the Vandals begin migrating out of their homeland south of the Vistula in favor of the new lands they recently took from the Suebi. The Scirii move in to take their place.

287
In Rome, Prince Trdat of Armenia, also known as Tiridates, leaves Proculus's court for Sirmium. In Sirmium, he begins to court an alliance with Diocles.

Also in Rome, Pope Valentine passes on, and would later be canonized.

288
Early in this year, Sebastianus of Mediolanum is elected Bishop of Rome, becoming Pope Sebastian.

Meanwhile, Diocles and Proculus agree to set aside their differences and invade the Cisdanubian Vandals. After several battles the Vandals are forced back across the Danube or taken prisoner. Itlay and Illyria partition the recaptured province.

By now, Victorianus has largely retaken Belgica, and begins producing a fleet to invade Britain proper.

289
The Goths invade Illyria, but are defeated by Diocles at Naissus, though he isn't able to evict them like he did the Vandals and Iazyges.

Victorianus finds his pride humbled when bad weather destroys his fleet, but he is a driven man, and begins to rebuild.

290
The last Egrisic city falls to Persian armies. The kingdom is incorporated as the Satrapy of Lazistan. Meanwhile, the Kingdom of Axum begins its own campaign, with Palmyrene help, to wipe out the Blemmyes.

291
The last of the Blemmyes are subjugated to Axum.

By now, both Axum and Palmyra have signifigant Christian minorities

292
Julius Saturninus dies. He is succeded in Africa by Domitius Domitianus. Proculus takes advantage of this to reinvade African Italy. By the time Domitian can get his legions together, all of Africa's European territory is back in Roman hands.

In Britain, Carausius is assassinated by his treasurer, Allectus.

A Roman uprising in Thrace, lead by one Galerius, is heavily crushed by the Visigoths.

293
Victorianus takes advantage of Allectus's coup to reconquer Britain. This time, he is succesful.

In Persia, Bahram II finally dies, to be succeeded by the underage Bahram III. Narseh of Isauria, last surviving son of Shapur I, declares himself King of Kings and invades Persia. Both Illyria and Palmyra respond by allying with Bahram - Illyria due to Diocles's friendship with the exiled Tiridates and a desire to regain Asia, Palmyra because a Persia under a weak child king is preferable to their desires.

294
Illyrian forces begin retaking the Ionian Coast.

Narseh has, by now, driven the Palmyrenes and Bahramists out of Cappadocia.

In Palmyra, Petra becomes predominantly Christian.

Domitius Domitianus surrenders to Proculus, losing South Italy and Sicily.

295
Narseh is defeated at Nusaybin, while the Illyrians take his capital at Iconium itself.

296
Narseh is killed by his troops at Tarsus, ending his attempted coup. Bahram III is now secured as King of Kings in Persia, and orders the execution of Narseh's son Hormizd. Illyria reabsorbs Isauria and places Tiridates back on his family's throne, where he bcomes Trdat III of Armenia.

In Western Europe, the last of the Baguadae are defeated.

297
The North Alamanni and Thuringii begin to raid Gaul.

Victorianus II martyrs Saint Alban, de facto leader of the British Christians.

298
Victorianus defeats the Germans invading his realm, then follows up by expelling Christians from the Gallic armies.

Many Manicheans begin returning to Asia around this time.

Berber raids against Africa intensify.

Many Visigothic cheifs begin converting to Marcionism, while others try to purge the new faith from their lands.

299
The Sarmatians and Carpians begin driving the Ostrogoths into Visigoth territory.

The Hermanubri invade Gaul, but like the Alammani and Thuringii before them, are repulsed.

300
Approximate date of the Synod of Venta Silurum, where the Western Church begins to take a hardline approach to non-Christians, marking the beginnings of a split with the more cosmopolitan Eastern Church.

Tiridates III of Armenia, impressed by the piety of Gregory the Illuminator, becomes the first state leader to convert to Christianity.

Comments? Questions? Criticisms?

DTF955Baseballfan

June 16th, 2009, 02:13 AM

Interesting; the effects on the Christian church will be intruiging. There is no Emperor to stage mass persecutions in the first few years of the 4th century; persecution sometimes caused it to grow, like a forbidden fruit (see China now as an example), but at the same time, the Church may well do better in some areas.

Without a Constantine to call a council, it makes sense, as I believe you said earlier, that diffferent varieties will be a but more widespred. However, I would look for some basic tenets of Christianity to be kept by most; men like Terullian have already been very influential, and more texts will survive without the persecution. Although, perhaps instead of four basic traditions of texts (Antiochan, Alexandrian, Caearean, and Syriac, you might see a fifth one survive? Lots of itneresting routes you could go.

It'll be interesting to see how things go. Perhaps Zoroastrianism becomes the main rival to Chrsitianity the way Islam is in OTL. (Or, is it too late for that religion? I know little about it, except that it was persian.)

Tomac

June 16th, 2009, 08:48 PM

Without a Constantine to call a council, it makes sense, as I believe you said earlier, that different varieties will be a but more widespred. However, I would look for some basic tenets of Christianity to be kept by most; men like Terullian have already been very influential, and more texts will survive without the persecution. Although, perhaps instead of four basic traditions of texts (Antiochan, Alexandrian, Caearean, and Syriac, you might see a fifth one survive? Lots of itneresting routes you could go.

Why not? it was about this time that there were some fifteen or twenty different gospels and many more epistles than are accepted today. I remember reading about a gospel of Peter, one by Thomas and even one attributed to Judas. All were dumped at the Council of Nicea (IIRC).
Personally, I think that different gospels might lead to different types of churches, leading to perhaps more internicine friction, at least wherever the different churches co-exist.

The Professor

June 17th, 2009, 11:21 AM

Interesting; the effects on the Christian church will be intruiging. There is no Emperor to stage mass persecutions in the first few years of the 4th century; persecution sometimes caused it to grow, like a forbidden fruit (see China now as an example), but at the same time, the Church may well do better in some areas.

Without a Constantine to call a council, it makes sense, as I believe you said earlier, that diffferent varieties will be a but more widespred. However, I would look for some basic tenets of Christianity to be kept by most; men like Terullian have already been very influential, and more texts will survive without the persecution. Although, perhaps instead of four basic traditions of texts (Antiochan, Alexandrian, Caearean, and Syriac, you might see a fifth one survive? Lots of itneresting routes you could go.

Yes indeed.
And any powerful Christian Ruler will certainly want to standardise the version of Christianity used in his realm. And use heresy as an excuse to invade his weaker neighbours!

DTF955Baseballfan

June 17th, 2009, 11:51 AM

Why not? it was about this time that there were some fifteen or twenty different gospels and many more epistles than are accepted today. I remember reading about a gospel of Peter, one by Thomas and even one attributed to Judas. All were dumped at the Council of Nicea (IIRC).
Personally, I think that different gospels might lead to different types of churches, leading to perhaps more internicine friction, at least wherever the different churches co-exist.

None of the major Christian leaders - Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen, etc. - recognized any of these Gospels as canon, however; I'm not even sure Arias did.

Of course that's not to say one couldn't come out of the woodwork, and dominate at least one country; thinking fourth dimensionally is tricky sometimes this far back, I'll admit. :)

steven24gordon

June 18th, 2009, 01:13 PM

I think we have to discuss the economic arena at this point, the combined militaries of the various successor states under discussion have (it would appear to me) ballooned the size of the Roman army. And as the armies grow in size so too does the need for money to support them. Unlike the enlightened government we enjoy today, ancient Rome or indeed ATL Roman successor states could not operate with a budget deficit. If there were no surplus in the treasury, then the government had to raise money through extraordinary means (often extortion and confiscation of the upper class and extreme taxation for the peasantry). Another means of obtaining more cash was devaluing the coinage, which I can see all the various successor Augusti doing in order to fund their armies. Now the effect (as ever 1st year economics major knows) of pumping more money into a static economy is inflation. If there are only so many goods available for purchase, having more money to spend on them just has the effect of driving the price up.

In the reign of Gallienus (253-268 CE), inflation was out of control and the coinage had become a worthless lump of copper with the thin veneer of silver. After forty years of collapsing imperial authority, I can only imagine how bad things have gotten. In a largely agrarian economy there is no way production can increase as fast as a desperate government can increase the money supply. So as the crisis continues without end in sight, the economy will be in an even worse state than OTL, are we looking at a complete regression into a non-monetary economy?

And what about economic reform? In OTL Aurelian restored some regularity to the coinage, issuing radiate coins of a good size and weight, even if the silver content remained almost nil. The OTL reforms of Diocletian (284-305 CE) went further, revising and regularizing the tax system with new concepts like dividing everything into two types of tax units based on productive capabilities. However, given the destabilization and decentralization that the ancient imperium is ongoing I don’t think any of the successor emperors will have the capacity to make similar reforms work. So what is happening to the economic situation while the Roman successor states are depleting their stores of wealth in civil war ad infinitum? Obviously the various successor Augusti attempt some economic reform but what?

Other thoughts:

Personally I am amazed that the Italian successor state has managed to maintain any semblance of centralized governance or military power. Her imperial border along the Danube has completely disintegrated and she has been cut off from her main breadbaskets (Egypt and North Africa) at a time when the Italians simply cannot feed the imperial centre. In fact I had expected large urban revolts in Rome, the complete disintegration of the Italian military and sacking of the Eternal City.

In fact I would suspect that the desperation for cash will probably lead the African Augustus to turn to piracy to fund the military adventures you describe in southern Italia. This piracy will earn them the ire of Palmyra who might join the war against them who should anyway be opposed to the Africans as they are the Palmyrene’s main challengers for naval superiority in the Mediterranean.

Speaking of Palmyra, what is happening with the Sassinads and Armenia? Palmyra should be fighting the Sassinads tooth and nail for the Levant and political authority in Armenia, not playing games in Ethiopia. I think we need to remember that Palmyra is first and foremost a caravan city, and the caravan routes run their Persian territory. Moreover, Palmyrene legitimacy in the Eastern provinces rest on their ability to protect the provincials from the Sassinad menace. All this means that priority number one for the Palmyrenes should Persia, and as such Palmyra could not let the Sassinads outflank them by invading so deep into Asia Minor.

And speaking of Asia Minor, why have the Isaurians expanded so far and so fast? In the OTL 3rd century these guys were more or less robber barons with little or no cohesion, and certainly didn’t have the skills to gain the loyalty of the still strong coastal cities. I can maybe see them expanding in the hinterland of Anatolia as a rather disorganized polity and eventually conquering the coast once they had gained enough unity, but why have the come so far so fast?

jmberry

June 19th, 2009, 02:31 AM

The map is interesting because it revives an ancient dynamic: A strong power in Mesopotamia, and a strong power in Egypt. It'd been like that since the dawn of history right up until the Parthians took Mesopotamia from the Seleucids. Syria and Palestine will once more be a major battleground between the two. In fact, you've pretty much set things up to be like they were before the Punic Wars. The micro factors are very different, of course, but there's a major empire in North Africa/Sicily, one in Italy, one in Mesopotamia/Persia, one in Egypt/The Levant, and one in Greece/Macedonia.

Well, there is one differance - an empire ruling over all of Western Europe. That alone makes the political dynamics markedly different.

An interesting story, jmberry: for my timeline based on a similar premise (POD in 260, surviving Gallic Empire but not Palmyrene), I used the exact same base map. It's funny to see how many similarities our maps possess, especially in my predictions map of what my TL would look like centuries later.

Some things are a bit iffy though: the random giant Isauria, the defenseless African hold on southern Italy, the Vandal protrusion south of the Vistula, and how the Sassanids can expand into Anatolia but not the Levant.
Looks good overall though.

In the case of the Vandals, I've never seen a good representation of where they lived before Geiseric. Most maps I've seen don't even use borders, they just plop the tribal names beyond the Danube. I had to use my imagination for Vandalia's transdanubian borders.

Interesting; the effects on the Christian church will be intruiging. There is no Emperor to stage mass persecutions in the first few years of the 4th century; persecution sometimes caused it to grow, like a forbidden fruit (see China now as an example), but at the same time, the Church may well do better in some areas.

Without a Constantine to call a council, it makes sense, as I believe you said earlier, that diffferent varieties will be a but more widespred. However, I would look for some basic tenets of Christianity to be kept by most; men like Terullian have already been very influential, and more texts will survive without the persecution. Although, perhaps instead of four basic traditions of texts (Antiochan, Alexandrian, Caearean, and Syriac, you might see a fifth one survive? Lots of itneresting routes you could go.

It'll be interesting to see how things go. Perhaps Zoroastrianism becomes the main rival to Chrsitianity the way Islam is in OTL. (Or, is it too late for that religion? I know little about it, except that it was persian.)

Which religion are you talking about? Islam certainly won't be the main rival to Christianity.

Why not? it was about this time that there were some fifteen or twenty different gospels and many more epistles than are accepted today. I remember reading about a gospel of Peter, one by Thomas and even one attributed to Judas. All were dumped at the Council of Nicea (IIRC).
Personally, I think that different gospels might lead to different types of churches, leading to perhaps more internicine friction, at least wherever the different churches co-exist.

I think the Judas Gospel was a hoax, though I've read most of the others. That said, only two groups advocated anything other than the traditional four, the Gnostics (who wanted to add in gospels like Thomas) and the Marcionites (who wanted to use only a heavily edited Luke). In fact, it was the Marcionites who sparked the whole canon vs apocrypha debate in the first place.

Yes indeed.
And any powerful Christian Ruler will certainly want to standardise the version of Christianity used in his realm. And use heresy as an excuse to invade his weaker neighbours!

For the record, Europe won't be quite as uniform with religion as it was in OTL's Middle Ages (and anyone who's studied Medieval Christianity knows it wasn't remotely uniform until after Avignon). TTL's Europe will see Christianity (four different sects), Sol Invictism merged with Mithraism, Manicheanism, Druidism, Wotanism, and even Tengriism.

Needless to say, post-Roman philosophers will be a ... unique lot.

None of the major Christian leaders - Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen, etc. - recognized any of these Gospels as canon, however; I'm not even sure Arias did.

Of course that's not to say one couldn't come out of the woodwork, and dominate at least one country; thinking fourth dimensionally is tricky sometimes this far back, I'll admit. :)

As mentioned previously, there will be four different sects of Christianity in the former empire (plus one based well outside the empire's boundaries):

A Western Branch, which resembles a cross between the Celtic Church and Puritanism

Arianism (Arius was born pre-POD, and thus farhis career has been largely as OTL)

Marcionism, which advocated a complete and total rewrite of the Bible

An Eastern Branch, which is closest to the OTL Orthodox Church, with some Donatist and Nestorian elements

The odd men out are the Gnostics.

I think we have to discuss the economic arena at this point, the combined militaries of the various successor states under discussion have (it would appear to me) ballooned the size of the Roman army. And as the armies grow in size so too does the need for money to support them. Unlike the enlightened government we enjoy today, ancient Rome or indeed ATL Roman successor states could not operate with a budget deficit. If there were no surplus in the treasury, then the government had to raise money through extraordinary means (often extortion and confiscation of the upper class and extreme taxation for the peasantry). Another means of obtaining more cash was devaluing the coinage, which I can see all the various successor Augusti doing in order to fund their armies. Now the effect (as ever 1st year economics major knows) of pumping more money into a static economy is inflation. If there are only so many goods available for purchase, having more money to spend on them just has the effect of driving the price up.

In the reign of Gallienus (253-268 CE), inflation was out of control and the coinage had become a worthless lump of copper with the thin veneer of silver. After forty years of collapsing imperial authority, I can only imagine how bad things have gotten. In a largely agrarian economy there is no way production can increase as fast as a desperate government can increase the money supply. So as the crisis continues without end in sight, the economy will be in an even worse state than OTL, are we looking at a complete regression into a non-monetary economy?

And what about economic reform? In OTL Aurelian restored some regularity to the coinage, issuing radiate coins of a good size and weight, even if the silver content remained almost nil. The OTL reforms of Diocletian (284-305 CE) went further, revising and regularizing the tax system with new concepts like dividing everything into two types of tax units based on productive capabilities. However, given the destabilization and decentralization that the ancient imperium is ongoing I don’t think any of the successor emperors will have the capacity to make similar reforms work. So what is happening to the economic situation while the Roman successor states are depleting their stores of wealth in civil war ad infinitum? Obviously the various successor Augusti attempt some economic reform but what?

Other thoughts:

Personally I am amazed that the Italian successor state has managed to maintain any semblance of centralized governance or military power. Her imperial border along the Danube has completely disintegrated and she has been cut off from her main breadbaskets (Egypt and North Africa) at a time when the Italians simply cannot feed the imperial centre. In fact I had expected large urban revolts in Rome, the complete disintegration of the Italian military and sacking of the EternalCity.

In fact I would suspect that the desperation for cash will probably lead the African Augustus to turn to piracy to fund the military adventures you describe in southern Italia. This piracy will earn them the ire of Palmyra who might join the war against them who should anyway be opposed to the Africans as they are the Palmyrene’s main challengers for naval superiority in the Mediterranean.

Speaking of Palmyra, what is happening with the Sassinads and Armenia? Palmyra should be fighting the Sassinads tooth and nail for the Levant and political authority in Armenia, not playing games in Ethiopia. I think we need to remember that Palmyra is first and foremost a caravan city, and the caravan routes run their Persian territory. Moreover, Palmyrene legitimacy in the Eastern provinces rest on their ability to protect the provincials from the Sassinad menace. All this means that priority number one for the Palmyrenes should Persia, and as such Palmyra could not let the Sassinads outflank them by invading so deep into Asia Minor.

And speaking of Asia Minor, why have the Isaurians expanded so far and so fast? In the OTL 3rd century these guys were more or less robber barons with little or no cohesion, and certainly didn’t have the skills to gain the loyalty of the still strong coastal cities. I can maybe see them expanding in the hinterland of Anatolia as a rather disorganized polity and eventually conquering the coast once they had gained enough unity, but why have the come so far so fast?

Well, the extent of my knowledge of economics can be described as "pitiful". That siad, I do have some general trends in mind.

Most of the questions you raise will be answered in a post which will describe the Roman World in the year 300, but as for Isauria, its name was a mistake. The country should have been called "Asia", and existed only because Persia willed it. It was based in Isauria, and Narseh's best troops were Isaurians, but it was a mistake on my part to assume that would be a realistic name.

jmberry

June 20th, 2009, 10:46 PM

Just bumping this to let you guys know that the next update will be coming tomorrow. Any more comments or suggestions are welcome.

jmberry

June 22nd, 2009, 04:10 PM

301
The Vandals chase the Rugians out of their territory. The Rugians move west, where they absorb the remains of the Hermanubri.

The Lakmids, sensing weakness in Persia, move north and sack the cities of Mesopotamia, including Ctesiphon.

Emperor Proculus allows Pope Sebastian an enclave for Christians to live in Umbria. This enclave would later become the Republic of San Sebastiano.

Emperor Victorianus II of Gaul issues an edict tyin slaves to the province of their masters, in order to deal with labor shortages.

302
The Great Egyptian Rebellion begins. The Egyptians and Nubians rise up against the Palmyrenes, forcing Vaballathus to meet them in battle. This rebellion has the added effect of disrupting the grain shipments Palmyra was selling to the rest of the Roman World.

In Rome, Proculus dies and is succeded by his son Herennius.

In Illyria, Diocles passes a reform on prices and coinage, though it backfires by creating inflation and low prices for goods.

303
Diocles has Saint Fermin of Pamplona and Saint Adrian of Nicomedia put to death.

Vaballathus is greviously wounded at Abydos, Egypt. The wound soon becomes infected.

Riots begin in Italy, due to the growing lack of grain.

304
Vaballathus contracts a fatal illness, even as his troops put the last of the Egyptian rebels.

The riots in Italy become a full blown rebellion. Pope Sebastian is stoned by a mob (he would later be martyred). A mob storms the Imperial palace, where Herennius is killed.

305
Chrocus leads his Alamanni south, where he sacks Rome and then returns north.

After two years of illness, Vaballathus dies from malaria. His son becomes Odenaethus II.

The Dayson River floods Edessa.

306
Odenaethus II converts to Christianity, the first mjor ruler to do so.

The Franks cross the Rhine into Gaul, where they cause signifcant damage before Victorianus drives hem off.

Maximian requests permission to invade Italy, but Diocles overturns him, wanting to spend his last years in peace, and because Illyria lacks the funds and manpower to pull that off now.

Chrocus dies, causing the Italian Alammani to break up into feuding factions.

307
Marcellus is elected Bishop of Rome.

With the Grain Rebellion dying down, the Romans ask Victorianus II to be Emperor. However, Victorianus had died, and his son Victorianus III had no interest in Italy. Instead, he sends his brother, Andronicus, to be Emperor.

Odenaethus calls the Council of Tyre to establish how the Palmyrene Church would be run.

308
Domitius Domitianus dies, and is succeded by his son, Domitius Alexander.

Upon arriving in Rome, Andronicus evicts most Christians in the city to San Sebstiano.

Axum invades and conquers Himyar in Arabia.

309
Pope Marcellus dies. Eusebius becomes Pope.

The Spanish provinces revolt against Victorianus III, but are crushed heavily.

Bahram III leads in expedition into Arabia to revenge himself on the Lakmids. Going in undermanned and unprepared, he is soon overwhelmed and killed, leaving Persia in the hands of another infant, Bahram IV.

310
Donatus Magnus succeeds Eusebius as Pope.

The Bructeri invade Gaul. After Victorianus defeats them, they are absorbed into the Franks.

Choresm rebels against Persia, becoming an independent kingdom.

Comments, Suggestions, Criticisms? Map comming soon.

jmberry

June 23rd, 2009, 05:39 AM

Bumping this for comments.

jmberry

June 24th, 2009, 02:17 AM

Overview of the Post-Roman World in 310

Part 1, The Gallic Empire

The Gallic Empire is a sub-roman state based in the westernmost portions of the old Roman Empire. Ruled by the House of Victorianus for three generations, Gaul has probably been the succesful of the sub-roman states. The empire has four main components - Gaul Proper, Spain, Britain, and Rhaetia.

Ethnically and linguistically, the Gallic Empire is very much Romanized. However, the inhabitants of Britain and the Rhineland maintain their Celtic roots, and the Vasconi of the Pyrennes have never been fully subjugated to Rome or Victorianum. Many people in the Rhineland also have German blood.

In terms of religion, the Church of Sol Invictus, the Unconquerable Sun, has been the unofficial state church since Victorianus I, and it has slowly been subsuming the other faiths in the empire. Christianity is largely confined to Britain, where continental authority is usually more relaxed.

Socially, the societal classes are becoming increasingly stratified to deal with labor shortages. Gaul is an agrarian nation, and thus doesn't have a significant middle class, increasingly becoming what we would call "feudal" in nature. Because the expenses, the legionnaire has largely been phased out, replaced by spearmen called "Comatinses", supplemented by equites, archers, and Germanic mercenaries. Equites are becoming more valued than infantry, because those who can't afford horses need to work the farms to keep Gaul fed. In addition, professional soldeirs are slowly dying out, and the army is becoming based more and more on a levy system.

Gaul has two primary tributaries, the Italian sub-romans, ruled by Victorianus III's younger brother Andronicus, and the Brythonic tribes living between Hadrian's and Antoninus Pius's walls, the Votadini, Selgovae, Novantae, and Dumnonii.

Valdemar II

June 24th, 2009, 02:29 PM

jmberry

June 25th, 2009, 06:00 PM

Love the timeline, through I have a few suggestion, in Aquitaine the rural population still spoke Celtic in the 6th century, so we likely see a survival of Celtic in Gaul (especially with the depopulation of the cities), with the Isarurians running amok in Anatolia, I could see some depopulation of the central plateou making it prime settle ground for for semi-nomads like the Alans or the Ostrogoths. I don't see the Celt survive in the Rhineland it simply to close to the Germanic* population centre.
The Vandal is believe to have live in Silesia before the later migration periode through like the Goths, Gepid and Rugians, they original lived in the Vistula delta (likely as a unified nation at first).

*Please used Germanic instead of German:p
For the Rhineland Gauls, I agree, they will ultimately become more Germanic than Celtic, but keep in mind that we're only up to 310.

Aside from Aquitaine, one place that is certain to see a Celtic revival is Britain, especially the region between the Walls.

As for tha Vandals, I should note that all borders of the barbarian tribes are conjectural until they start settling down and solidifying into quasi-medieval kingdoms, or are obliterated by someone bigger, whichever comes first. In the Vandals' case, the eastern part of their lands was a region I saw on a map to belong to them around 250. The western part was lands belonging to the Marcomanni and Quadi, who the Vandals conquered TTL. They've since left the eastern regions to the Scirii.

BTW, here's the color scheme for the Germanic tribes who aren't labeled (remember, borders are conjectural):

Dark Blue - Franks
Light Blue - Burgundii
Dark Gray - North Alammani + Thuringii
Orange - Frisii
Southern Pink - Saxons
Middle Pink - Anglii
Northern Pink - Jutes
Light Green next to the Saxons - Lombards
That puce color north of the Vandals - Rugii
Light Gray - Everyone too unimportant to get their own color, mainly the Hermanubri

rcduggan

June 27th, 2009, 02:46 AM

One question - why exactly has Christianity not spread into the Gallic Empire?

jmberry

June 27th, 2009, 09:37 PM

One question - why exactly has Christianity not spread into the Gallic Empire?
I didn't say it hasn't - it just hasn't become popular there TTL. Christianity wasn't as strong in Western Europe as it was in Africa and Asia until the final decades of the Roman Empire, and that hasn't changed here.

jmberry

June 28th, 2009, 08:06 PM

Overview of the Post-Roman World in 310

Part 2, The Italian Principate

Italy is a sub-roman state centered around Rome itself. Since 308, Andronicus of the House of ictorianus has ruled Italy as Caesar. The Italians still consider themselves the true Roman Empire, though most modern historians would date Andronicus's coming to power as the empire's official end. Italy is usually divded into four parts - Cisalpine Gaul in the north, Latium in the center, Magna Graecia in the south, and the islands of Sicilia, Sardinia, and Corsica.

Italy is, of course, ethnically and linguistically Latin. There are a few Hellenes in Magna Graecia, but they have largely disappeared by this point. A branch of the Alammani settled in Cisalpine Gaul several decades ago, and as a result the Italians there tend to be taller and fairer and speak with a distinct accent.

Religously, Italy has no single dominating religion, though Andronicus, like his brother, is a devout Sol Invictine. Many Italians are Sol Invictines, Christians, Mithraists, or follow the old Capitolinist faith, with a few Hellenistics in the south and Wotanists in the north.

Andronicus has begun enacting the same reforms that are in place in Gaul, socially stratifying the Italians. Like Gaul, Italy has abandoned the legionnaire in favor of the comitanses, and the professional army in favor of mercenary-supplemented levies.

After the empire fell apart, Italy was dependent on grain shipments from Africa and Egypt. When Africa broke away, these shipments became smaller, and when Egypt rose up in revolt, the shipments stopped entirely, leading to massive uprisings, sparking the anarchial period known as the Interregnum.

It should be noted that, due to their extreme expense, gladiatorial games are only held in the Flavian Amphitheatre when a new Imperator is hailed in Rome, meaning there hasn't been one in two years. As a result, gladiator' skills are atrophying, and the next one will most likely be amateurish by comparison.

Italy is a vassal state to Gaul, though this isn't something someone says to an Italian's face. Andronicus has, in fact, considered moving his residence to a northern city like Mediolanum.

Part 3, The African Empire

The African Empire is the youngest of the sub-Roman states. Ruled by the House of Domitius, Africa is ruled from Carthago. Africa is a largely Punic and Berber nation, with a Latin ruling caste. No single religion dominates, though the Christians and Manicheans are both prominant.

Socially, Africa is divided by race. The Latins, largely Emperor Domitius Alexander and his family and hangers-on from Italy and Sicilia, are on top. The Punics fill all the government and mercantile positions. And the Berbers make up the peasant class.

Economically, Africa trades with all of the other mediterranean states, and with the Sub-Saharan region kbown as Awkar. The Africans also raid their neighbors with privateers based in Malta.

Because of the enviroment, the heavily armored legionnaire proved to be shortlived. To deal with their main enemies, the Berbers of the Sahara, the Africans employ lightly armed horsemen, camelry, archers, and spearmen. The Moroccan Elephant has recently gone extinct, so the Africans don't use elephant riders like their Carthiginian predecessors did.

Although I have used "Berber" to describe the North Africans, this name is technically anachronistic. Those living within Africa's borders should more accurately be called "Numidian", those living outside are "Mazices".

jmberry

June 29th, 2009, 04:45 PM

Anyone want to comment?

Valdemar II

June 29th, 2009, 05:30 PM

Anyone want to comment?

Nice update, but a single point to the Germanic tribes, the Saxons is believed to have lived in Mecklenburg and Holstein before the Slavic migrations, the area you put them in is believed to have been Frankish at the time or at least proto-Frankish. To north Italy, it's quite likely that it was still majority Celtic at the time.
Nice detail about the gladiatorial games by the way.

The Professor

June 29th, 2009, 05:34 PM

Anyone want to comment?

Just waiting to see what the Germanics do :D

Archangel

June 29th, 2009, 06:00 PM

The African Empire will probably end up speaking the language spoken by TTL Punics (most likely Latin). At the long term, I believe the language of commerce and government will have an advantage over the language of the commoners.

jmberry

June 29th, 2009, 10:31 PM

Nice update, but a single point to the Germanic tribes, the Saxons is believed to have lived in Mecklenburg and Holstein before the Slavic migrations, the area you put them in is believed to have been Frankish at the time or at least proto-Frankish. To north Italy, it's quite likely that it was still majority Celtic at the time.
Nice detail about the gladiatorial games by the way.
I'll be honest, my information about the borders of the germanic tribes comes largely from a map from 1992 showing the situation at 400. If you know of any that show 300, please point me to them so the 310 map can be more accurate.

jmberry

July 2nd, 2009, 02:44 AM

Overview of the Post-Roman World in 310

Part 4, The Illyrian Empire

The Illyrian Empire is a sub-Roman state stretching from Istria in the west, across the Balkans, and all the way over Asia Minor to the Euphrates. It contains a wide number of regions - Pannonia, Dalmatia, Macedonia, Greece, and Asia. Illyria's emperor is Diocles, a native Illyrian hailed as Imperator after Probus's death.

Illyria is probably the most diverse of the sub-roman states, including Latins, Greeks, Isaurians, Armenians, Persians, Suebi, Goths, Sarmatians, and Asding Vandals, to name the major groups. Both Latin and Greek see equal use as languages, though Greek holds the more prestigious role as the language of learning.

Religion is equally diverse, with Christians in Greece and Ionia, Manicheans in Galatia, Olympians in Pontus and Greece, Sol Invictines in Sirmium itself, et cetera. Diocles himself favors the Unconquerable Sun, though he doesn't take it to the fanatical levels of the Victoriani.

Illyria generally has frosty relations with all of sub-roman states except Africa. It is also not on good terms with the Goths and Vandals. Relations with Palmyra have improved recently, and the Illyrians consider Armenia a close friend.

Illyria is the only sub-roman state which still uses the legionnaire in any great numbers, though they too have seen the usefulness of the horseman. Becuase of the nature of their usual opponents, the lightly armored Goths and horse archer-favoring Persians, the Illyrians use heavily armored calvarymen, called "Kataphractoi."

Like Italy, Illyria has largely abandoned the gladiatorial matches. They prefer horse racing as a more "sophisticated" sport.

Valdemar II

July 2nd, 2009, 07:28 AM

I'll be honest, my information about the borders of the germanic tribes comes largely from a map
from 1992 showing the situation at 400. If you know of any that show 300, please point me to them so the 310 map can be
more accurate.

I can sadly not find a map for 300 online

But this maps for around BC, show more or less how the situation was until the Huns came to Europe. The primary changes
was between 1-300 was that the tribes between the Weser and the Rhine had united into the Franks (with the exception of
the Fries) and that the tribes in southen Germany had united into the Allemanni and had conquered Transrhine Germania
Superior and Transdonau Räetia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/GermanenAD50.png

The Professor

July 2nd, 2009, 11:53 AM

This map from http://www.euratlas.com (http://www.euratlas.com/) shows roughly the situation at 300 CE tho it only shows the extent of the more well known tribes.

jmberry

July 6th, 2009, 02:25 PM

First of all, thank you Professor and Valsemar for those two maps. Both will come in handy.

Second, as to why I haven't really been active lately, my grandfather had recently taken a turn for the worse. He's getting better, but we still had to leave town to visit him earlier than planned, and this has left me without my notes, so my activities here will be more sporadic for the next couple weeks. Sorry about this.

Archangel

July 6th, 2009, 05:24 PM

I wish a quick recover for your father, jmberry.

The Professor

July 7th, 2009, 09:10 AM

No worries jmberry, hope he improves soon :cool:

steven24gordon

July 7th, 2009, 12:37 PM

Overview of the Post-Roman World in 310

Religion is equally diverse, with Christians in Greece and Ionia, Manicheans in Galatia, Olympians in Pontus and Greece, Sol Invictines in Sirmium itself, et cetera. Diocles himself favors the Unconquerable Sun, though he doesn't take it to the fanatical levels of the Victoriani.

Olympians? a variant of Christianity? the "Old-Time-Greek" pantheon?

jmberry

July 11th, 2009, 01:43 AM

I wish a quick recover for your father, jmberry.

No worries jmberry, hope he improves soon :cool:
Its my grandfather, but thank you both. It really hasn't been the summer vacation I had in mind, but it looks like he's stabilized.

Archangel

July 12th, 2009, 05:51 AM

Its my grandfather,
Sorry, jmberry. :o
but thank you both. It really hasn't been the summer vacation I had in mind, but it looks like he's stabilized.
I'm glad he is stabilized.

jmberry

August 20th, 2009, 03:02 AM

Well, I guess I owe an explanation for what happened over the past (checks date), one month, nine days, one hour and fourteen minutes. First my grandfather passed away, so I had to spend a week out of state for the funeral :(. Then my birthday came along (talk about poor timing). After that I had been so busy that I haven't really had time to check by here.

Irregardless, I am back now, and I will continue the timeline Friday.

EDIT: BTW, Anybody know who lived in Choresm during the 4th century? I need help trying to name its rulers, and all the ones I can find were from the Middle Ages.

Jaydoh

August 20th, 2009, 04:44 AM

BTW, Anybody know who lived in Choresm during the 4th century? I need help trying to name its rulers, and all the ones I can find were from the Middle Ages.

It looks like it was ruled by the Afrigids (http://my.raex.com/%7Eobsidian/centasia.html#Khwarazm).

Archangel

August 23rd, 2009, 12:39 AM

jmberry

September 12th, 2009, 09:25 PM

311

The Lakhmids take advantage of Bahram IV's infancy and invade Mesopotamia. King Imru' al-Qais I ibn 'Amr establishes the Kingdom of Bilad Al-Rafidayn [Arabic for Mesopotamia] with its capital at Al-Hirah.

The Kushanshahs under Peroz II break away from Persia.

Ella Eskendi, king of Axum, converts to Christianity

Arius becomes the spiritual advisor to Odenaethus II

Diocles dies, leaving Illyria to his son Valerius.

312
The second Council of Tyre upholds the reforms espoused by Pope Donatus.

Victorianus III reforms the provincial structure of the Gallic Empire. The new provinces are Lutetiensis [North Gaul], Victoriana [Southwest Gaul], Gallia Australis [Southeast Gaul], Hispania Cantabria [North Iberia], Hispania Baetica [South Iberia], Britannia Superior [South Britain], and Britannia Inferior [North and West Britain].

Valerius is challenged by Maxentius, son of Maximianor the Illyrian throne.

313
Synod of Verulamium - the Western Christians officially break with with the Palmyrene backed church in Rome and Alexandria.

Domitius Alexander issues an edict of toleration for Christians in North Africa.

Maxentius drives Valerius out of Europe and into Asia.

War breaks out between Afrig of Choresm and Peroz II of the Kushanshahs.

314
Battle of Kabura - Kushanshah forces defeat the Afrigids.

Battles of Alexandria Eschata and Samarkand - The Kushanshahs again defeat Choresm

Valerius's fleet destroys Maxentius's fleet at Euboeia, ending any chance Maxentius has to defeat Valerius permanently.

315
The Sarmatians and Carpians invade Dacia, driving the Ostrogoths into Visigoth territory.

The Visigoths respond by leaving Thrace and invading Greece.

Victorianus III has immense baths constructed at Victorianum.

The Vandals invade Illyria and retake the lands they lost to Diocles, and then move further south.

316
Maxentius seeks peace with Valerius, allowing Valerius to keep the lands he has, forming the Asian Empire.

Pope Donatus attempts to heal the division between the Eastern and Western Churches, but to no avail.

The Afrigids gain the aid of the Guptas of the Ganges River Valley, who invade Kushanshah territory, turning the war in Choresm's favor.

jmberry

September 14th, 2009, 09:09 PM

Any comments before I move on? I know I haven't updated since July until now, but I was hoping at least someone would comment.

The Professor

September 15th, 2009, 11:38 AM

Any comments before I move on? I know I haven't updated since July until now, but I was hoping at least someone would comment.

I think most of us are patiently waiting for what's next ;)

jmberry

September 25th, 2009, 03:33 AM

317
Maxentius seeks peace with the Visigoths, regaining Epirus and Achaea, but losing Thessaly and Macedonia to the Goths.

The Kushanshah city of Taxila is sacked by Gupta forces, bringing an end to the Kushanshah state. This marks the beginning of the Gupta Empire

Arius begins preaching his views on the Trinity.

King Mirian II of Caucasian Iberia declares Christianity the state religion.

318
Choresm moves into Kushanshah territory not occupied by the Guptas, including most of Bactria and Ariana

Domitius Alexander dies. His son Alexander Herrinius becomes Caesar of Africa.

Maxentius makes peace with the Vandals, who gain all of the land between Sirmium and the Danube. The Scirii move into Transdanubia Vandal territory.

The Ostrogoths begin raiding Asia.

Witth the Sarmatians moving into Dacia, the Alans begin moving into Sarmatia.

319
Armenia begins to vassalize the Caucasian kingdoms.

Alexander Herrinius converts to Palmyrene Christianity.

Valerius builds an army and invades Ostrogothia, retaking coastal Thrace. He burns the city of Byzantium in the process.

By this point, the majority of Visigoths are Marcionites, and missionaries begin to spread amongst the Ostrogoths.

Chandragupta I becomes king of the Gupta.

Christianity is introduced to Colchis.

320
Choresm invades Persia, weakened by Arab raids and two succesive regencies.

The Lakhmids are mostly Palmyrene Christian by this point.

Caesar Valerius rebuilds Byzantium as Valeriopolis. He begins to show leanings to Manicheanism.

The Franks reinvade Gaul, and are defeated by Victorianus III.

Around this time, the first reports of an Asiatic people called the Huns appear.

321
Arius is condemned by the Church for his teachings and exiled to Persia.

Choresm destroys the main Persian army near Pasagardae.

December 21st is put forth as the date for Christmas.

jmberry

September 25th, 2009, 05:59 PM

322
Afrigid forces under King Bagra take Persepolis. End of the Sassanid dynasty and beginning of the Afrigid dynasty.

Arius begins spreading his teachings amongst the Persians.

Mithraism ceases to be viewed as a seperate religion, having been subsumed into the Sol Invictine church.

323
The Vandals begin raiding Italy. Andronicus moves his capital to Mediolanum to better deal with this threat.

Rugians begin invading Gaul, but Victorianus III dives them back over the Rhine.

The Sarmatians cross the Danube and take most of Old Iazygia from the Illyrians.

324
Maxentius dies in battle against the Sarmatians. His friend Licianius becomes Caesar of Illyria.

Odenaethus II begins construction of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem.

325
The Vandals and Goths since oppurtunity and invade Illyria. Combined, the Sarmatians, Goths, and Vandals overwhelm and destroy the Illyrian empire, then return to their regions. Greece pledges itself to Asia for protection, while Illyria proper becomes de facto part of Italy.

326
Odenaethus II passes laws humanizing prisons and forbidiing the prostitution of maid servants.

Christianity is introduced to Kartli.

Victorianus III Germanicus dies and is succeded by his son Lucianus I.

Legend states that the True Cross was rediscovered on this date.

327
Lucianus I passes laws tying rural slaves to their home provinces, to deal with labor shortages.

Christianity is adopted as the state religion of Kartli.

jmberry

September 28th, 2009, 09:27 PM

Any comments before I continue?

IMP CAES AVG

September 29th, 2009, 10:44 AM

Archangel

September 29th, 2009, 04:12 PM

What's the current political, cultural and religious situation of Dacia, Britain and near the Rhine and Danube?:)

jmberry

September 29th, 2009, 05:41 PM

This has been my first look at this timeline, so I will restrict my comments to this latest section.

Its quite interesting that you have had the Sassanians collapse in the early 4th century. What was your rationale for this? Will you have the Palmyrene Empire seize some of its western satrapies while Ctesiphon is busy in the East?

Secondly, its also interesting that you have had the cult of Sol Invictus become officially established as the religion of the Western Empire. Has the traditional pantheon been suppressed, or does the cult co-exist with it, as seems more probable?

Firstly, the Sassanids' collapse was due to a number factors, any one of which by themselves probably wouldn't have harmed the Empire, but which together proved too much - Narseh's attempted coup, the Lakhmid conquest of Mesopotamia, Bahram III's attempt to bring the Arab tribes to heel, the destruction of the Kushanshahs. That said, the Sassanids aren't completely gone. Bagra sees the advantage of having Bahram IV as an easily ruled puppet, so he installed the boy-shah as ruler of a territory roughly corresponding to Media Atropatene (which is what I'll call it if no one suggests a more realistic name). Bagra keeps Bahram flooded with concubines, wild animals, minstrels, and any other form of leisure he wants. It's possible the Sassanids could use Atropatene to rebuild their empire if the Afrigids prove unlucky, but it's unlikely to happen within Bahram's lifetime.

Secondly, the Sol Invictines have largely adopted dieties which were popular in the western part of the empire - Mars, Mithras, Isis, some of the Celtic gods, etc. The old Capitoline faith had largely stagnated by the time of the POD. It still exists, but has largely been sidelined by the newer religions in the former empire.

What's the current political, cultural and religious situation of Dacia, Britain and near the Rhine and Danube?:)

Britain is ruled by Romanized British noblemen, the ancestors of OTL's Romano-Briton kings. Thus far, there have been little changes from OTL. The Romano-Britons stil live semi-independently of the continent, and Christians live easier here than in Europe. The Sol Invictine faith is light in Britain, with the primary religion being a Capitoline-Druidic syncretic faith.

As for the Rhine, it is a highly militarized zone meant to defend Gaul from tribes like the Rugii and Burgundii. Dacia and the Danube have longsince been surrendered to the German tibes (and, TTL, there is no differentiation between "German" and "Germanic". Make of that what you will).

jmberry

October 12th, 2009, 01:46 AM

Any more comments or questions?

jmberry

October 18th, 2009, 08:56 PM

328
Andronicus dies, and is succeded as princeps by his son Piavonius.

Skirmishing breaks out between Afrigid Persia and Bilad Al-Rafidayn.

329
After uneventful skirmishes, Shahanshah Bagra I and the new Lakhmid king, Aus ibn Qallam, ratify a treaty delienating the border between Bilad Al-Rafidayn and Persia.

Christian missionaries begin preaching in Ireland.

Odenaethus II, in order to shore up Palmyrene strength against attack from the East, begins negotiating with the Ghassanids.

330
The Bible is first translated into the Gothic language by Guthliufs [Generally not believed to be his real name, as "Guthliufs" simply means "God's Love" in Gothic].

Ezana, king of Axum, extends his control over the Ogaden.

331
Gregory the Illuminator withdraws from the world.

Alexander Herrinus passes a law against divorce.

Valerius converts to Manicheanism.

332
Piavonius defeats the Visigoths at Pella.

The Visigoths become Italian feodorati - in other words, vassals.

Valdemar II

October 19th, 2009, 01:59 PM

328

The Bible is first translated into the Gothic language by Guthliufs [Generally not believed to be his real name, as "Guthliufs" simply means "God's Love" in Gothic].

You shouldn't be sure of that Godfred (Gods Peace) was a pagan King of Denmark and stayed so his entire life (quite ironic name really, he used his entire life on making Charlemagne life difficult).

Beside that a new map would be nice.

jmberry

October 20th, 2009, 02:59 AM

You shouldn't be sure of that Godfred (Gods Peace) was a pagan King of Denmark and stayed so his entire life (quite ironic name really, he used his entire life on making Charlemagne life difficult).

Beside that a new map would be nice.
Guthliufs is an ahistorical figure (indeed, googling the word only brings up one web address - this thread). I went with that name because I don't have any source for Gothic names, and went with a nickname instead.

Map to come up tomorrow.

jmberry

October 20th, 2009, 05:19 PM

Archangel

October 21st, 2009, 05:23 PM

Here, as promised is the map, 332

Numbers Key:
1. Brythonic vassals of Gaul (Selgovae, Votadini)
2. Jutes
3. Angli
4. Saxones
5. Frisii
6. Langobardi
7. Franci
8. Burgundii
9. Minor Germanic Tribes (Hermanubri, Bavari, etc.)
10. Rugii
11. Thuringii
12. Alemanni
13. Huns
14. Egrisi (Lazica)
15. Caucasian Iberia
16. Caucasian Albania

The Selgovae and Votadini's languages might get strong influences from Latin in the future, through Gaul, unless something unexpected happens.

If Thessalonic and Mount Athos stays Greek-speaking, in the long term, it shall be interesting to observe the linguistic evolution of the Visigoth.

jmberry

October 22nd, 2009, 02:14 AM

The Selgovae and Votadini's languages might get strong influences from Latin in the future, through Gaul, unless something unexpected happens.

If Thessalonic and Mount Athos stays Greek-speaking, in the long term, it shall be interesting to observe the linguistic evolution of the Visigoth.
Well, you have to remember that Latin never really took root in Britain, which returned to Brythonic Celtic almost as soon as the Romans left and then became the only province to become linguistically Germanic. And Gothic never really took root in Italy and Spain. The only Germanic word I could find in Castillian Spanish is "Guerra", which has the same root as "War" and "Krieg." Based on this, Britain will probably remain linguistically Celtic until around 600 or something happens to the rural population, whichever comes first, while the Visigoths will probably embrace Greek. On the other hand, the Visigoths, and more likely the Ostrogoths, may wind up keeping Gothic as their language - after all, the South Slavs and Bulgarians don't speak a Hellenic language.

Jaded_Railman

October 22nd, 2009, 05:52 AM

Well, you have to remember that Latin never really took root in Britain, which returned to Brythonic Celtic almost as soon as the Romans left and then became the only province to become linguistically Germanic. And Gothic never really took root in Italy and Spain. The only Germanic word I could find in Castillian Spanish is "Guerra", which has the same root as "War" and "Krieg." Based on this, Britain will probably remain linguistically Celtic until around 600 or something happens to the rural population, whichever comes first, while the Visigoths will probably embrace Greek. On the other hand, the Visigoths, and more likely the Ostrogoths, may wind up keeping Gothic as their language - after all, the South Slavs and Bulgarians don't speak a Hellenic language.

Of course, the South Slavs and Bulgarians didn't settle in Hellenic speaking areas, but rather in areas where dwelt Latin speakers (as well as a number of minority languages, and a decent amount of Greek speakers).

jmberry

October 27th, 2009, 12:48 AM

Of course, the South Slavs and Bulgarians didn't settle in Hellenic speaking areas, but rather in areas where dwelt Latin speakers (as well as a number of minority languages, and a decent amount of Greek speakers).
Well, my point is less settle areas like Britain saw the local languages supplanting Latin, and the barbarians' languages supllanting the local languages. More heavily populated regions like Gaul saw the tribes absorbed into the local culture, adopting the regional language (Vulgar Latin, in Gaul's case).

Lord Hastur of Carcosa

November 20th, 2009, 05:28 PM

I went with that name because I don't have any source for Gothic names, and went with a nickname instead.

http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/hist.php

Jaded_Railman

November 20th, 2009, 05:43 PM

Well, my point is less settle areas like Britain saw the local languages supplanting Latin, and the barbarians' languages supllanting the local languages. More heavily populated regions like Gaul saw the tribes absorbed into the local culture, adopting the regional language (Vulgar Latin, in Gaul's case).

And, of course, Greece is the densely settled area west of India at this moment, so...

jmberry

November 21st, 2009, 08:26 PM

Anyway, here's the next fove years, 333-337

333
The Vandals begin raiding Northern Italia.

The Ostrogoths begin raiding Asian Thrace.

The Ghassanids agree to become vassals to the Palmyrenes.

334
The Italians and Visigoths defeat the Vandals.

The Huns begin raiding neighboring tribes.

The North Alamanni begin raiding Gaul.

335
Valerius defeats the Ostrogoths at Adrianople, forcing them into feodorati status.

Sumadragupta succeeds his fathe Chandragupta I as king of the Gupta Empire.

Tuoba Hena ousts Tuoba Yihuai to become cheif of the Tuoba.

Lucianus I defeats the North Alammani.

336
Arius dies in Susa. His views on Christianity, while deemed heretical in Palmyra, have begun to take root amongst the Afrigids.

Scirii begin moving into Sarmatian Dacia.

The Alans beign raiding the Caucasus/

337
Armenia beigns a war with Asia over Cappadocia.

The Lakmids begin a war with Palmyra, possibly influenced by Persia.

Paivonius dies suddenly, to be succeeded by his son Dalmaticus.

jmberry

December 21st, 2009, 01:15 AM

338
Lazica and Kartli ally to defeat the Alans

The Alans begin to move west, into Sarmatian territory

The Lakmids defeat the Palmyrenes near the border in a pitched battle

339
Arian Christianity begins spreading into Ariana

The Tocharians begin moving into Sogdiana

The Lakmids reach Tadmor/Palmyra itself and settle down for a seige

340
Irish and Pictish raids on Britannia increase

The Asians, pushed back to Sinope, begin to push the Armeinians back

The Lakmid force is routed by Egyptian reinforcements

Alexandria supplants Rome as the largest city in the world

341
The Palmyrenes and Lakmids come to a status quo antebellum peace treaty

The Sarmatians begin entering Ostrogothic Moesia

The Afrigids execute several hundreds of Arians at Susa

342
A large earthquake strikes Cyprus

Asia and Armenia come to a peace treaty splitting Cappadocia between them

343
Armenia invades Sassanid Media Atropatene

Odenaethus II dies. He is succeded by his son, Petrus I

Lucianus I goes to Britain to deal with Celtic pirates. While there, he catches a fever and dies. His teenage son Lucianus II becomes Emperor of Gaul

344
The Sassanids, with Afrigid help, drive out the Armenians

Its imperial ambitions in the south checked, Armenia begins to put more influece on the Caucasian states

Alexander Herrinus launches an invasion of Italy, hoping to reclaim South Italy and the islands

345
The Africans defeat the Italians at Syracuse

Lucianus II's increasing decadence leads to calls for rebellion from a nobleman named Afranius

Egypt begins to take more precedence than Syria in the Palmyrene Empire

The Visigoths begin defying the Italians more and more

jmberry

January 25th, 2010, 02:29 PM

346
The Africans land at various places in South Italia, and begin marching towards Rome.

Afranius builds up an army in Hispania, and seizes Toletum

With the fall of South Italia, the Visigoths break with Rome, establishing an independent kingdom under Rothesteus

347
The Africans defeat an Italian army at Beneventum, leaving the route open to Rome.

Seeing the Eternal City is indefensible, Dalmaticus flees to Mediolanum, leaving Rome to Alexander Herrinus

Afranius's army, after subduing all of Hispania, crosses the Pyrennes into Gaul

348
Petrus I begins conscripting women to serve as auxiliaries in the Palmyrene army [1]

Alexander Herrinus declares himself Augustus after taking Rome. He names his son Severus Herrinus Caesar

Samudragupta cements his rulership over North India

349
After a year of minor skirmishes, Lucianus and Afranius finally do battle at Burdigala [Bordeaux]. Afranius wins, and Lucianus flees north.

The Rhennish Germanic tribes, seeing weakness in Gaul, begin raiding the fronteir in greater force. At the same time, Gaelish pirates begin raiding Brittania.

Alexander herrinus marches on North Italia. Mediolanum is taken and Dalmaticus strangled.

The Sarmatians sack the city of Salonae, taking advantage of Italian weakness.

350
Modern historians mark this year as the beginning of the Restored Roman Empire.

Lucianus flees to Brittania, leaving Gaul to Afranius. Both men claim the title of Emperor of Gaul.

The Huns and Tocharians begin raiding Afrigid Persia.

[1] I have seen somewhere that Shapur II did this. I don't know about the historicity of this, but as we're almost a hundred years from the POD historicity porbably makes little difference.

jmberry

January 25th, 2010, 10:48 PM

Here is a list of every Roman emperor up to the time of the restored empire. The emperor's full imperial name is listed, with the name he is commonly known by in bold. Other royal lists and a map to follow soon.

Julio-Claudians
Caesar Divi Filius Augustus 27 BC - 14 AD
Tiberius Caesar Augustus 14 AD - 37 AD
Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus Caligula 37 - 41
Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus 41 - 54
Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus 54 - 68

Post-Nero Emperors
Servius Galba Imperator Caesar Augustus 68 - 69
Marcus Otho Caesar Augustus 69
Aulus Vitellius Germanicus Augustus 69

Flavians
Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus 69 - 79
Titus Flavius Caesar Vespasianus Augustus 79 - 81
Titus Flavius Caesar Domitianus Augustus 81 - 96

Nervo-Antonians
Marcus Coccieus Nerva Caesar Augustus 96 - 98
Caesar Marcus Ulpius Nerva Trajanus Augustus 98 - 117
Caesar Publius Aelius Trajanus Hadrianus Augustus 117 - 138
Caesar Titus Aelius Hadrianus Antoninus Augustus Pius 138 -161
Caesar Lucius Aurelius Verus Augustus 161 - 169
Caesar Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus 161 - 180
Caesar Marcus Aurelius Commodus Antoninus Augustus 177 - 192

The Pre-Severans
Caesar Publius Helvius Pertinax Augustus 193
Caesar Marcus Didius Severus Julianus Augustus 193

Severans
Caesar Lucius Septimius Severus Pertinax 193 - 211
Caesar Publius Septimius Geta Augustus 209 - 211
Caesar Marcus Aurelius Severus Antoninus Pius Augustus Caracalla 198 - 217
Marcus Opellius Severus Macrinus Augustus Pius Felix 217 - 218
Marcus Opellius Antoninus Diadumenianuus 217 - 218
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus Elagabalus 218 - 222
Caesar Marcus Aurelius Severus Alexander Augustus 222 - 235

Post-Severans
Caesar Gaius Julius Verus Maximinus Augustus Thrax 235 - 238
Caesar Marcus Antonius Gordianus Sempronianus Africanus Augustus 238
Caesar Marcus Antonius Gordianus Sempronianus Romanus Africanus Augustus 238
Caesar Marcus Clodius Pupienus Maximus Augustus 238
Caesar Decimus Caelius Calvinus Bablinus Pius Augustus 238
Caesar Marcus Antonius Gordianus Augustus 238 - 244
Caesar Marcus Julius Philippus Augustus 244 - 249
Caesar Gaius Messius Quintus Trajanus Decius Augustus 249 - 251
Caesar Caius Valens Hostillianus Messius Quintus Augustus 251
Caesar Gaius Vibius Trebonianus Gallus Augustus 251 - 253
Caesar Marcus Aemilius Aemilianus Augustus 253
Caesar Publius Licinius Valerianus Augustus 253 - 260
Caesar Publius Licinius Egnatius Gallienus Augustus 260 - 268
Caesar Marcus Antoninus Aureleos Augustus 268 - 273
Caesar Marcus Claudius Tacitus Augustus 273 - 280
Caesar Marcus Annius Florianus Augustus 275 - 280
Caesar Marcus Aurelius Proculus Antonius Augustus 280 - 302
Caesar Marcus Aurelius Antonius Herennius Augustus 302 - 304
Interregnum 304 - 307

Italian Principate
Caesar Marcus Paivonius Andronicus Pius 307 - 328
Caesar Marcus Paivonius Andronicus Romanus Pius 328 - 337
Caesar Marcus Paivonius Dalmaticus Pius 337 - 349

Restored Empire
Caesar Lucius Domitius Alexander Herrinus Africanus Augustus 348 -
Caesar Lucius Domitius Severus Herrinus 349 -

Comments, Questions, Criticisms?

jmberry

February 1st, 2010, 02:45 AM

Here are the sub-Roman rulers. Same principals as before.

Gallic Emperors

Postumans
Caesar Marcus Cassianus Latinius Postumus Augustus 268 - 272
Caesar Marcus Cassianus Latinus Postumus Augustus Minor 269 - 275

Tetricans
Imperator Caius Pius Esuvius Tetricus 273 - 275

Paivonians
Imperator Marcus Paivonus Victorinus Pius Felix Invictus Augustus Restitor Orbis 272 - 282
Imperator Marcus Paivonus Victorinus Pius Felix Invictus Augustus 282 - 307
Imperator Marcus Paivonus Victorinus Pius Felix Invictus Augustus Germanicus 307 - 326
Imperator Marcus Paivonus Lucianus Victorinus Pius Felix Invictus Augustus 326 - 343
Imperator Marcus Paivonus Victorinus Lucianus Pius Felix Invictus Augustus 343 -

Afranians
Caesar Flavius Afranius Stellio Augustus 345 -

Illyrian Emperors

Claudians
Caesar Marcus Aurelius Claudius Augustus Gothicus 268 - 270
Caesar Marcus Aurelius Claudius Quintillus Augustus 270 - 271

Carans
Caesar Marcus Aurelius Carus Augustus 271 - 273, w/ Caesar Marcus Aurelius Numerius Numerianus
Caesar Marcus Aurelius Carinus Augustus 273 - 274

Probans
Caesar Marcus Aurelius Probus Augustus 274 - 283

Valerians
Caesar Gaius Aurelius Valerius Diocles Augustus Magnus 283 - 311
Caesar Gaius Aurelius Antoninus Valerius Augustus 311 - 313
Caesar Marcus Aurelius Valerius Maxentius Augustus 312 - 324
Caesar Marcus Valerius Maxentius Licianus Augustus Finis 324 - 325

Asian Emperors

Valerians
Caesar Gaius Aurelius Antoninus Valerius Augustus 313 -

Palmyrene Kings

House of Nasor
Lucius Septimius Odaenathus Dux 258? - 267
Julia Aurelia Zenobia 268 - 282
Lucius Julius Aurelius Septimius Vaballathus Athenodorus 268 - 305
Julius Septimius Odaenathus Christophilus 305 - 343
Julius Lucius Petrus Nasor 343 -

African Emperors

Saturnines
Caesar Sextus Gaius Julius Saturninus 280 - 292

Domitians
Caesar Lucius Domitius Domitianus 292 - 308
Caesar Lucius Domitius Alexander 308 - 318
Caesar Lucius Domitius Alexander Herrinus Africanus Augustus 318 -
Caesar Lucius Domitius Severus Herrinus 348 -

jmberry

February 4th, 2010, 03:52 PM

Here are some more kings:

Afrigid Shahs

Afrig 305 - 320
Bagra 320 - 340
Sakhasak 340 -

Lakhmid Kings of Bilad al-Rafidayn

'Amr ibn Adi 268 - 295
Imru al-Qais ibn 'Amr 295 - 328
'Amr ibn Imru al-Qays 328 -

Ghassanid Kings

'Amr I ibn Jafnah 265 - 270
Tha'labah ibn 'Amr 270 - 287
al-Harith I ibn Tha'labah 287 - 307
Jabalah I ibn al-Harith 307 - 317
al-Harith II ibn Jabalah ibn Maria 317 - 327
al-Mundhir I Senior ibn al-Harith 327 - 330
al-Aiham ibn al-Harith 327 - 330
al-Mudhir II Junior ibn al-Harith 327 - 340
al-Nu'man I ibn al-Harith 327 - 342
'Amr II ibn al-Harith 330 -
Jabalah II ibn al-Harith 327 -

Kings of Axum

Solomonids

Ella Tzegab 256 - 279
Ella Samara 279 - 282
Ella Aiba 282 - 298
Ella Eskendi 298 - 334
Ella Tzaham I 334 - 343
Ella San 343 -

A list of Sassanid rulers, popes, and the map will be next. Unitl then, any comments or questions?

jmberry

February 13th, 2010, 02:38 AM

While, I'm working on the map, does anyone have any comments or suggestions? Or even complaints?

jmberry

March 6th, 2010, 01:06 AM

Sassanid Shahs

Ardashir I 224 - 241
Shapur I 241 - 272
Hormizd I 272 - 273
Bahram I 273 - 276
Bahram II 276 - 293
(Narseh 293 - 296)
Bahram III 293 - 309
Bahram IV 309 - 322 (died 347)
Bahram V (as Satrap of Media Atropatene) 322 -

Popes of Rome

St Dionysius 259 - 268
St Felix I 268 - 274
St Valentine 274 - 287
St Sebastian 287 - 304
(Vacant) 304 - 307
St Marcellus 307 - 309
St Eusebius 309 - 310
St Donatus 310 -

Well, here are the final lists. A map will have to wait until a later date, since a virus ate the maps I was using. In any event, this TL will be starting back up, so are there any comments or questions?

jmberry

March 24th, 2010, 01:11 AM

351

A new process in India allows sugar to be extracted from sugarcane. Nobility in Persia, Asia, and Palmyra soon develop a taste for sugar-based products, though expenses mean they won't replace honey amongst the lower classes any time soon.

A Jewish revolt in Palestine breaks out, forcing Petrus Nasor to send troops into the region.

Alexander Herrinus dies, and is suceeded as Augustus by his son, Severus Herrinus.

The Afrigids beat back the Huns and Tocharians.

352

The Jewish Revolt is put down harshly by the Palmyrenes.

Taxila rises in revolt against the Guptas. Seeing a way to kill several birds with one stone, Samudragupta invites the Tocharians to conquer the city. The Tocharians agree, and Taxila is soon put to the torch. Tocharistan is quickly set up as a buffer between India and the nomads who live beyond the Hindu Kush.

The Huns, meanwhile, begin moving into Alani territory.

The North Alamanni and Burgundii invade the Gaulish Rhineland, raiding and conquering as far as the Mosella [Moselle] River.

The first recorded supernova is seen in China.

353

Valerius dies, and is suceeded as Augustus of Asia by his son, Gaius Valerius Decintius, commonly known as Decintius [1].

Lucianus is killed by his right-hand Silvanus, who offers Britannia to Afranius. Afranius rewards Silvanus by naming him vicarius [viceroy] of the island.

Afranius turns his attention to the Alamanni in the Rhineland, crushing them utterly. The Alamanni cease to be a major tribe in Germania, and wind up absorbed into the Rugii. The Burgundii are granted feodorati status to help defend the Rhine.

354

The Rugii begin raiding Helvetia, but are repulsed by the Gaulish legions.

Bulgars are first mentioned in Western sources as a subtribe of the Huns [2].

Petrus Nasor confirms the Syrian calendar, which sets the year of Christ's resurrection as "1 Etos tis Anastaseos [Year of the Resurrection]", or 1 EA. It soon becomes the dominant calendar in all Christian countries (Palmyra, Rome, Armenia, Rafidayn, the Ghassanid kingdom). Gaul and Asia continue to use the Ab Urbe Contina calendar, while Axum continues to use an alternate calendar that begins with the Ennunciation [3].

355

The Franks beseige Colonia Agrippina [Cologne] for several months before giving up.

Pope Donatus dies, and is suceeded by Felix II.

Aedesius, a well known Neoplatonist scholar living in Asia, dies.

356

The Rugii invade Rhaetia, which has been largely ignored by Gaul, Rome, and the Vandals of Pannonia. The province soon falls to the Rugii.

Many religions which are frowned upon by the Brahmins start to become numerous in Tocharistan, including Buddhists, Jains, and Thomasine Christians.

Shah Sakhasak converts to Arian Christianity, angering the Zoroastrian populace and his orthodox neighbors, the Lakhmids of Rafidayn [4].

Due to the more lax nature of Afranius with regards to religion, many Christians begin arriving in Mediterranean Hispania.

357

The Huns fully defeat the Alans. Some flee into the Caucasus, where Kartli and the Armenian satellites defeat them. Others, including the powerful Rhoxolani tribe, cross the Don to join with the Alani already living in the Pripet watershed.

Saran, king of Ulster, is overthrown.

Decintius dies suddenly, sparking a succesion crisis in Asia.

358

An earthquake strikes Asia, adding to the region's troubles.

The Ostrogoths, Armenians, and Palmyrenes invade Asia, quickly overrunning the beleagured nation. The three split Asia along the Halys River, with Ostrogothia gaining everything west of the river, Armenia everything north, and Palmyra everything south.

The Sarmatians launch a punitive raid on the Vandals, but are repulsed.

Afranius invites the Franks to form a foedoratii in Toxandria.

359

An uprising of Zoroastrians in Elam turns into a full-scaled Pro-Sassanid revolt across Persia.

Severus Herrinus dies without a son. Having seen what had happened to Asia, he appointed his right hand Ambrosius as his heir. Ambrosius becomes Augustus Ambrosius Aurelius [5].

Construction of the Church of Saint Peter begins in Rome.

360

First recorded raid of the Saxons on Britannia. They are defeated by Silvanius and driven back to the German Sea [North Sea] this first time.

The revolt in Persia quickly gains steam against the Afrigids. Armenia and Rafidayn launche invasions of Persia in order to gain territory at the empire's expense.

The Ostrogoths convert to Manichaenism, a move that causes friction with the Marcionitic Visigoths.
　
　
[1] Valerius was an old man when he died, and Decintius is thus not at all young. In addition, Decintius is a strict Manichaen who believed that procreation was one of the roots of evil (as a creation of sinful matter) and so abstained from it. This will cause problems down the line.

[2] This depiction of them may not be 100% accurate.

[3] For simplicity's sake, this TL will continue to use the BC/AD calendar.

[4] Sakhasak had become quite impressed with the Arians, and had no real connection with Zoroastrianism (which he was suspicious of to begin with), so the conversion felt natural to him. However, it had the side affect of proving his suspicions true.

[5] Ambrosius is an interesting figure. His father was one of the men who followed the Paivonines south from Gaul, and thus was viewed with suspicion by the Romans after the Restoration. However, Ambrosius himself worked hard to climb up the political ladder, and gained the respect of Severus. This marks the culmination of a long career.

jmberry

March 25th, 2010, 06:15 AM

Any comments, questions, or criticisms?

Archangel

March 26th, 2010, 09:36 PM

TTL Afghanistan will be very interesting.

jmberry

March 28th, 2010, 07:48 PM

TTL Afghanistan will be very interesting.
Indeed, although this is in keeping with OTL's Afghanistan, which was an important crossroads of cultures and wound up ruled by all sorts of cultures.

jmberry

April 2nd, 2010, 09:44 PM

361

In an attempt to forestall the uprising, Sakhasak has Bahram V put to death. Bahram's teenage son, Hormizd, however, escapes and joins the Persian rebels.

Conflict breaks out between the two Gothic tribes. Several border skirmishes near Adrianople [Edirne] grow in increasing violence.

The Vandals begin moving into Sarmatian Territory. The Sarmatians are increasingly pushed into southern Illyria [Albania and Montenegro, roughly].
　
362

The Lakmids seize and sack Susa [Shush].

An earthquake strikes Nicaea [Iznik], in Ostrogothia.

The Ostrogoths launch a full scale invasion of Visigothia.

The Vandals, having driven the Sarmatians out of Dalmatia and northern Illyria, begin migrating into their new holdings. The Scirii and Bavari begin moving into the lands the Vandals abandon.
　
363

Sakhasak is forced to flee back to Choresm [Khiva]. Hormizd is crowned Shahanshah Hormizd II. Rafidayn annexes Elam into its territory, while Armenia takes land to the Caspian.

The Ostrogoths crush the Visigoths at Thessalonika. The Ostrogths demand subservience from the Visigoths, or, as the Ostrogoths call them, Walha (Foreigners).

Petra is damaged by an earthquake. Petrus begins building a port city on the Gulf of Aqaba to replace it, called Nasoria.

Petrus Nasor also hosts the Council of Caesaria [Qeysarya], which prohibits resting on any day other than the Sabbath, restricting Christians who follow the Orthodox creed to worshiping on Saturday.
　
364
The Council of Caesaria decides on the content of the Old and New Testaments.

Petrus Nasor dies in his sleep, and is succeeded by his grandson, Iohannes Ierocyrica [John the Preacher].

The Thuringii bow to pressure and join the Rugii's federation of tribes.
　
365

The 365 Crete Earthquake strikes. Crete, Egypt, and the Levant are devastated by tremors and tsunamis. Italy and Greece suffer minor damge as well. The Gallo-Romans claim this as a sign from Sol Invictus.

Pope Felix II dies, and is succeeded by Pope Julius I.

Silvanus dies, and is replaced as vicarius of Britannia by Gaius Vitalus Barbus.
　
366
The Rhine freezes over, allowing the Rugii Confederacy to cross in massive numbers. Afranius defeats them, but is unable to break them.

Afranius Stellio dies from pneumonia caught during his war with the Rugii, allowing his son Flavius Afranius Septimus to become emperor.

Acacius, one of the most important leaders of the Arian movement, is captured and put to death by Hormizd II. Arianism remains strong in Choresmia, however.
　
367

The Saxons, Gaels, and Attacotti invade and devastate Britannia. Vitalus Barbus attempts to stop them, but is defeated and killed at Camulodonum [Colchester].

The first official copy of the Bible is released by the Orthodox Church.
　
368

Afranius Septimus marches north of Hadrian's Wall and smashes the Attacotti in retaliation for the raids.

Afranius Septimus, based in Augusta Trevorum [Trier], with backing from the Burgundii, invades the Rugii and smashes the Confederacy, causing it to break up to its constituent members again (the Rugii, Thuringii, and Alemanni).

Afranius's brother, Afranius Silvanus, arrives in Britannia to become Vicarius Silvanus II. He adopts Vitalus Barbus's son, Vitalinus, as his own.

Well, 100 years have passed since the POD, so that means a map will be coming up shortly.

jmberry

April 2nd, 2010, 10:09 PM

Here's the map.

EDIT: In case you're wondering, it's supposed to read "Roman Empire of Gaul".

Archangel

April 2nd, 2010, 10:34 PM

jmberry

April 3rd, 2010, 04:43 AM

Nice map, jmberry!:)
If Gaul managed to get the borders at the Rhein, they would be safer from the Germanic tribes.
The Visigothii risk being conquered by the Ostrogoths (who are in a strategic area - if they remain there helennised, they can have a good future) or the Restored Roman Empire.
Indeed, but the Huns are showing up on the scene now, so just about anything might happen ;).

The next map won't be until 400, but I've decided a look at how Christianity is different is in order. Each of these entries includes a bible quote that represents the core of that faith.

Interlude #2: Christianity

Syrian Orthodox
"Glory to God in the Highest, and in the World peace among men with whom he is pleased!" - The Gospel according to Lucas 2:14

The Syrian Orthodox Church is the largest of the Christian denominations, and the one most people think of when they think of Christianity. Based in Jerusalem, the Syrian Orthodox Church is led by Patriarchs who claim apostlic succesion, with the Patriarchs of Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Rome holding the most weight. As Palmyra controls three of these cities, it has immense influence over church doctrine. In addition to Palmyra, the Syrian Church is the established religion in the Restored Roman Empire, San Sebastiano, Armenia, Rafidayn, and the Ghassanids. The Axumites also follow Syrian doctrine, but ... certain differences are starting to appear. The church frowns upon ostentatious displays of wealth amongst the clergy, and preach about the usefulness of good deeds and charity, memories of the work of Donatus, Patriarch (Pope) of Rome in the early 300s. The New Testament Canon, according to the Council of Caesaria, follows:
The Gospel according to Matthew
The Gospel according to Mark
The Gospel according to Lucas
The Gospel according to Ioannes
The Gospel of the Egyptians
The Gospel of the Hebrews
Acts of the Apostles
Romans
I and II Corinthians
Galatians
Philippians
Ephesians
Colossians
I and II Thessalonians
I and II Timotheus
Titus
Hebrews
Simon Petrus
Ioannes the Evangelist [I John]
Jude
Clement
Traditions of Mathias
Preachings of Simon Petrus
Epistle of Barnabas
Didache
Shepard of Hermas

They also have a secondary book called the "Apoalypton", which includes two writings, the Revelations of Ioannes the Evangelist, and the Apocalypse of Simon Petrus. These are deemed to be important, but not necessary, as they are believed to have been predictions of the fall and breakup of the Roman Empire, and thus have already transpired.

Celtic Christianity
[I]"I am the LORD thy God, thou shall have no other God before me." - Exodus 20:2

Celtic Christianity grew in the Roman Empire of Gaul, where oppresion by the Invictines caused them to develop a harder outlook on life. Celtic Christianity is greatest in Britannia, but has enclaves in Cantabria, North Gaul, and Hibernia (The Christians on the Mediterranean coast follow the Syrian dogma). The Celts are less organized than the Syrians, relying on local bishops, who nominally report to the Church Vicarius in Venta Silurum. The Celtic Church includes I and II Macabees in its version of the Old Testament, with the bishops painting the Church as the Macabees reborn, with the Gallo-Romans replacing the Seleucids. The New Testament canon is:
The Gospel according to Matthew
The Gospel according to Mark
The Gospel according to Luke
The Gospel according to Ioan
Acts of the Apostles
Romans
I and II Corinthians
Galatians
Philippians
Ephesians
Colossians
I and II Thessalonians
I and II Timothy
Titus
Peter
I and II Ioan
Clement
Shepard of Hermas
Revelations of Ioan

The Marcionites
[I]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. - Apostilicon 1:8-10
Marcion was a church leader living in the 2nd century. He felt that the Old and New Testaments were contradictory towards each other, and believed that the OT should be rejected. He, in fact, worked hard to stamp out any Jewish influences in Christianity, and was condemned as one of the Church's first major heretics. In 368, the Visigoths follow his beliefs, which has brought them into conflict with both the Ostrogoths, who are Manichean, and the Romans, who are Syrian Orthodox. The Marcionitic Bible (there is no Old Testament in this version) contains only two books:
The Evangelicon (a heavily modified and "de-Jewed" Luke)
The Apostilicon (a compilation of Epistles, starting with Galatians and continuing with I and II Corinthians, Romans, I and II Thessalonicans, Laodiceans [Ephesians], Colossians, Philemon, and Philippians, all, like Luke, heavily modified)

The Arians
Indeed, even though there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth — as in fact there are many gods and many lords — yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Iesu Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. - I Corinthians 8:5-6
Unlike OTL, Arianism is considered something of a curiosity TTL, and lacks the controversy it held OTL in Europe, as Marcionsim holds the title of most controversial heresy. In Persia, however, Arianists are killed wherever found, being associated with the Afrigids. Thus, Arianism has become the main faith in the region of Transoxiana, including the Afrigid kingdom of Choresmia. The Arianists have the same canon as the Syrians, except for the Gospels of the Egyptians and Hebrews, which are not included, and the Revelations of Ioannes, which is considered canon.

The Thomasines, aka the Gnostics
He [Yisu Masiha] said "The realm of the [Father] is like a woman who is carrying a [jar] full of meal. While she was walking [on the road], still some distance from home, the handle of the jar broke and the meal spilled out behind her. She did not realize, she noticed no accident. When she reached her house, she set the jar down and found it empty." - Thomasa 97
The Thomasines are the largest group of Gnostic Christians, and are found primarily in Tocharistan. They believe in traditional Gnostic beliefs, like the supremacy of Spirit over Matter, but modified to a Christian world view. They have no set holy book, but instead a collection of writings called the Gnostic Gospel of Thomasa, which take the form of a collection of sayings by Jesus Christ/Yisu Masiha (who is not mentioned by name) to Thomas the Apostle. They are not to be confused with the Nasrene Christians of Kerala, who are also called the Saint Thomas Christians because they beleive their church was founded by Thomas. At this point in time, the Nasrenes are little different from the Syrians.

The next interlude will deal with the Invictines and will come at 400.

jmberry

April 11th, 2010, 07:40 AM

I decided to do the Sol Invictine faith now, then get on with the timeline.

Interlude #3: The Imperial Cult of Sun the Unconquerable

The Imperial Cult of Sun the Unconquerable, often simply known as the Sol Invictine faith, is the state religion of the Roman Empire of Gaul. It is based in Victorinium [Orleans], the imperial capital. The head of the imperial cult is the Pontifex Maximus, who is, of course, the emperor. The faith has existed since at least the days of the Severans, if not earlier. However, it didn't come into prominence until the death of Postumus I. Victorinus I supposedly recieved a vision from Sol that he would gain Imperium Sine Fine - Empire Without End - and defeat his rivals - Tetricus and Postumus Minor - if he agreed to make the faith the state religion. Victorinus agreed and won the imperial throne. At least, that's how the story goes.

The emperor decides all religious policy as Pontifex, although the Afranines are less zealous in their outlook than the Paivonines were. The Invictines have co-opted a number of other faiths since they became state, but the Christians' refusal to follow state ritual has led to numerous persecutions. Again, the Afranines have been more lenient in this regard, and several Syrian Orthodox communities now dot the Mediterranean coast. The Invictine faith is also strong in Italia, though the rise of the Domitians and Ambrosians has led to Invictine decline.

The Invictine pantheon has numerous deities drawn from all over the old empire:
Sol Invictus - Also known as Jupiter and (among the soldiers) Mithras, Sol is the cheif diety for the faith. He is god of the Sun, the Empire, manhood, and Victory, and the city of Victorinium
Isis - Also known as Juno, Isis is the goddess of womanhood, the Moon, and magic. She originally came fromt he old Heliopolitan pantheon of Egypt.
Mars - The god of War, Conquest, and the Romans, who claim descent from him.
Mercurius - Also known as Lugh, the god of Strength, the Wild, and the Celtic Peoples.
Vesta - Goddess of the Home and Hearth, and patron of the Vestal Virgins.
Adonis - God of Fertility and the Hellenic peoples.
Neptune Leirus - God of the Sea, a composite of the Roman Neptune and the Celtic Ller [Lear].
Divine Caesar - God of the Emperors, known in life as Gaius Julius Caesar IV, refered to as the "zeroth" emperor (if they had a concept of zero, that is).
Numerous emperors have also been deified and serve as lesser gods.

The priesthood is almost completely male and worship the pantheon as a whole. The exceptions are the Vestal Virgins, who are female and devoted to Vesta, and the Mithraics, who lead secretive ceremonies performed solely by soldiers devoted to Sol Invictus in his Mithras persona.

jmberry

April 26th, 2010, 01:14 PM

369

Pope Julius I dies. He is succeded by Pope Dalmaticus I.

Vicarius Silvanus II begins construction of a series of forts along the coast of Cantwara [Kent] to defend Britain from Germanic raids.

The Vandali clash with the Sarmati somewhat, but nothing comes of it.

370

Law of Afranius bans marriage between Romans and non-Romans, under pain of death. It is almost completely ignored.

The Huns cross the Don and conquer the Transarmatici [Beyond the Carpathians] Alans, as well as the Bosporan Goths.

The Vandali begin raiding Italy, but are stopped by Ambrosius Aurelius.

371

The Ostrogoths fully absorb the Visigoths.

The Bulgars follow the Huns into former Alani territory.

Pope Dalmaticus I dies. He is succeded by Pope Julius II.

372

Ambrosius Aurelius crushes the Moors in Africa.

Afranius Septimus moves into Burgundii territory and begins restoring Rhenish fortifications.

Hormizd II attempts an invasion of Armenia, but is driven back.

373

Ermanaric defeats various other rivals to become the first King of Gothia.

Pap Arsacid retaliates against Persia, but is driven back.

Silvanus II begins fortifying Ordovicia [Gwynedd].

374

Gabin becomes king of the Scirii.

Ambrosius begins construction of a new basilica at Carthago.

The Huns cross the Sarmatici [Carpathian] Mountains. The Alans bow down to the Huns and become members of their confederation.

jmberry

June 3rd, 2010, 02:35 AM

375

Firmus of the Berbers raids into Africa, seizing Carthago and burning Ambrosius's basilica to the ground

Ermanaric defeats the Huns in several skirmishes on the Ister [Danube]

Ramagupta becomes king of the Guptas

376

The Huns invade the Caucasus kingdoms, raiding and sacking cities as they go

Tuoba Shiyijian, king of the state of Dai, dies

Ambrosius leads an army into Africa, capturing Firmus and executing him.

377

The Huns cross the Caucasus and invade Armenia

Hormizd II invades Rafidayn, hoping to regain Ctesiphon

Afranius Septimus dies without a son, leaving the Gaulish emperorship to his brother Silvanus. Silvanus appoints Aulus Saufeius Scaevola to the position of Vicarius of Britannia, and creates a new Vicarial position, Vicarius of Hispania, with Lucius Volcacius Longinus as its first appointee

378

The Lentienses cross the Rhine river and invade Gaul

After several months, the Lentienses are crushed by Emperor Silvanus

The Rafidayni Lakmids defeat the Persians at Borsippa [Birs Nimrud]

The Armenians drive out the Huns

379

Brion Mac Eochaid becomes High King of Ireland

The Ghassanids stop paying tribute to Palmyra. Iohannes leads an army from Tadmor and scatters them.

The Armenians move north and take Lazica from the Huns

380

Tocharistan invades Gupta India, taking advantage of Ramagupta's weakness. This disrupts trade with Palmyra and Axum

The Huns begin skirmishing with the Vandals and restart hostilities with Gothia.

Pope Julius II dies, and is succeded by Donatus II

jmberry

June 4th, 2010, 10:13 PM

Bumping this for comments, questions, and criticisms.

Just a heads up, the next update will see the changes hit China, so the TL will become much more global.

jmberry

June 10th, 2010, 12:27 AM

Last call for comments before the next update.

jmberry

June 16th, 2010, 05:47 AM

381

The Scirii ally with the Huns.

The Ecumenical Council of Alexandretta is called by Patriarch Martinus of Alexandria. It's purpose is to create a creed all Christians can recite to affirm their devotion. [1]

Ermanaric stops the Huns at Adrianople [Edirne], but dies from wounds sustained in the battle. His son Athanarius becomes King of Gothia.

382

The Council of Alexandretta confirms both the Biblical canon to be accepted by the Syrian Orthodox Church, known as the Martinian Vulgate, and the new Alexandrettan Creed. [2]

Emperor Ambrosius renounces the title of Pontifex Maximus, a title held since Augustus. With the fall of the Asian and Illyrian emperors, Emperor Silvanus of Gaul is now the only man who carries this title. [3]

A second council, the Council of Corinth, confirms the virginity of St. Mary and acknowledges Trinitarianism as canonical. Iohannes orders the death of several Manicheans, frosting relations with Gothia.

383

The Sarmatians ally with the Huns.

Jin forces are defeated at the Battle of Fei. Prince Fu Jian of the Later Qin Dynasty is able to chase the Jin to Jiankang [roughly Municipal Nanjing], where he captures and strangulates the Xiaowu Emperor. The Eastern Jin Dynasty comes to an end. [4]

Hormizd II dies, and is succeeded by his son Shapur II.

Athanarius offers his allegiance to the Huns. [5]

384

Fu Jian returns to Chang'an [Xi'an] and is declared the Xuanzhao Emperor of China. This marks the end of Sixteen Kingdoms period and the beginning of the Houqin Dynasty period. [6]

The Hispanic legions declare Quintus Cassius Victorinus emperor is opposition to Silvanus.

King Chimnyu becomes King of Baekche, and declares Buddhism the state religion.

Ramagupta begs for peace from the Tocharians, granting them the entire Indus Valley. The Gupta Empire begins its slow decline.

385

Jinsa succeeds Chimnyu as king of Baekche.

Ramagupta is killed by the kshatriyas, who put his son Kalidagupta on the throne. [7]

Several major battles occur along the Pyrenees.

With the south pacified, the Xuanzhao Emperor turns his attention to the north, defeating the Tuoba in several skirmishes and forcing them to migrate away from China.

Iohannes Ierocyrica dies, and is succeeded by his son Nasor Septimios. [8]

386

The Huns and Goths launch an invasion of Armenia.

Prince Fu Pi is executed after attempting to kill his father. [9]

Cassius and Silvanus agree to a peace, wherein Cassius is acknowledged as princeps of Hispania.

387

Kalidagupta is killed. His brother Naradigupta is named Gupta Emperor.

Nasor Septimios invades Rafidayn, hoping to gain the wealth of Mesopotamia.

[1] There is no equivalent to the Nicene Creed, since there were no Councils of Nicea.

[2] See above for the list of NT books considered canon by the Martinian Vulgate.

[3] As the title still has pagan connotations, it is not accepted by the Bishop of Rome, or any other churchman.

[4] This marks the point where the changes become more or less global. Historically Fu Jian lost the battle in spite of having a larger and better trained force, and the Former Qin (as they are known OTL) largely disintegrated. They are known as the Later Qin TTL because the OTL dynasty which took that name doesn't exist, so there was no reason to call them "Former Qin", but differentiation was still necessary to tell them apart from the actual Qin.

[5] Athanarius is more cautious than his father, and knows Gothia can't survive a second war with the Huns. Better to live as friends than die as enemies, in his mind.

[6] Houqin is simply Later Qin in Chinese.

[7] This marks the beginning of several short-lived emperors who are installed by the kshatriyas, then killed when they stop being useful. Needless to say, the Gupta Empire won't prosper from this. For the record, the kshatriyas [I]weren't behind Kalidagupta's death - not as a group, anyway. Who killed him and why remains a mystery to TTL's modern day.

[8] As his name shows, the Palmyrenes have become less Latin and more Hellenistic. Nasor Septimios would be considered by many historians to be the last great Palmyrene emperor.

[9] Fu Pi, or the Aiping Emperor as he's known OTL, deposed his older brother after Fu Jian's murder OTL. He was an ambitious and untrustworthy man, and would have probably tried to become emperor regardless of his father's fate.

jmberry

June 18th, 2010, 05:45 AM

Any comments, questions, or criticisms?

jmberry

June 23rd, 2010, 11:15 PM

388

Nasor Septimios sacks the city of Callinicum, in Rafidayn

Athanarius sacks Artaxata, capital of Armenia. The royal family flees to
Tadmor, ending the Armenian Kingdom

Qifu Guoren, Prince of Wanchuan, dies

Godigisu, King of the Vandals, defeats the Huns on the Ister, temporarily stopping the Huns

389

Khan Beltazar, ruler of the Huns, dies. He is succeded by Uldinus.

Nasor Septimios begins a five year seige of Al Hira, the Lakhmid capital.

Silvanus bans all non-Invictine worship in the Gallic Empire.

390

Rudrasena II, ruler of the Vakataka Kingdom in the Deccan, moves north and crushes the local kshatriyas of the Gupta Empire, installing himself as regent for his brother-in-law Naradigupta

An Indian philosopher named Malinaga Vatsyayana arrives in Egypt. Known locally as Malinicus Batsianus, he bogons writing his work, the Erotika Thematos

Xuanzhao begins an expansion of Chang'an. Similar building projects are instituted across China, including an renovation of the Great Wall

391

Heduohan of the Ruoran leaps upon the weakened Tuoba, defeating them in battle and forcing them to move westwards, towards the Gaoche.

Gwanggaeto rises to the throne of Goguryeo.

Ella Eon of Axum leads an army north from Axumite Arabia, conquering the Arabian coast of the Red Sea.

Xuanzhao treats an ambassador from "the King of Wa." [1]

392

Theugastus declares himself King of the Franks

Ella Eon begins marching another army up the coastof Arabia, towards the Persian Gulf.

First Tocharian-Vakataka War breaks out.

393

Al Hira falls to Nasor's army, leading to the end of the Lakhmid kingdom.

Ambrosius Aurelius outlaws gladiatorial combat in the Restored Empire.

With the decline of an Imperial presence in Hispania, Syrian Christianity begins to spread in Tarraconensis.

394

The general Mao Xing attempts to raise rebellion in Southern China. After some initial success, he is defeated and killed by the Emperor's brother Fu Rong.

The First Tocharian-Vatakata War ends when Rudrasena convinces the Kidarites, or Red Huns, of the Central Indus to switch allegiance from Tocharistan to Vatakata.

Ella Eon dies, and is succeded by his son Ella Daniel, who rules an empire stretching across Aethiopia and Arabia.

Emperor Silvanus dies, and is succeded by his adopted son, Vitalinus, who takes the name Vitalinus Silvanus.

395

Gothia, with Hunnic backing, invades Palmyrene Anatolia. Nasor Septimios is able to stop them at Alexandretta, but is unable to regain any lost land.

The Sarmatians, also with Hunnic backing and Alan aid, sack and raid throughout Greece before returning to Epirus.

Ambrosius Aurelius begins enlisting Vandal aid to defend the Restored Empire's borders.

396

The Eleusinian Mysteries come to an end with the destruction of their holy sites by the Sarmatians.

Vatakata begins exerting influence over the South Indian states.

Houqin China begins moving into SE Asia.

397

The Xiongnu move into the Gansu region, establishing the Kingdom of Xia. [2]

Pope Donatus II dies, and is succeded by Pope Anthemius I.

Martinus of Alexandria writes a biography of St. Valentinus I, the first hagiography in history.

Ambrosius Aurelius dies, and is succeded by his son, Ambrosius Herrininus.

398

Ringanus of Deva begins missionary work amongst the Caledonii.

Ambrosius Herrininus is killed, and a general named Volusius is proclaimed Augustus by the army.

Naradigupta is killed, and Rudrasena names his second son Agnivar as Gupta Emperor. He changes his name to Agnigupta.

399

Volusius is himself killed, and a politician named Theodorus becomes Augustus.

Shapur II becomes King of Kings in Persia.

Fa Xian, a Chinese Buddhist monk, travels to Nepal to study in his religion's homeland.

400

Godigisu invades Italy, and gains concessions from his nominal overlord Theodorus, including the position of magister militum.

Last recorded mention of the Paeonians, who are absorbed into Vandal and Gothic culture completely.

Approximate date construction on Great Zimbabwe begins.

Xuanzhao dies, and is succeded by his son Fu Hong, who becomes the Daomutang Emperor.

[1] Wa is, of course, Yamato Japan. The "king of Wa" at this time would be, according to tradition, Emperor Nintoku, who is most well known for that giant key-shaped island tomb in Osaka.

[2] So called because the Xiongnu claim descent from the near-mythical Xia Dynasty.

jmberry

July 8th, 2010, 05:30 PM

Is anyone interested in seeing this continue? I haven't received a comment since April, and it's getting really frustrating and disappointing to put all this effort into a timeline when it feels like no one is reading. I have a few maps almost ready, but I can't post them if no one's going to look at them.

HereticAscendant

July 8th, 2010, 10:01 PM

Don't worry. i'm love to see it continue.

jmberry

July 10th, 2010, 07:14 AM

Don't worry. i'm love to see it continue.
Very well, I'll try and continue next week.

Talkie Toaster

July 10th, 2010, 08:34 PM

I'm really interested in this TL, I'm just a lurker at heart. I'm sure many others are the same, as the number of views for this thread shows. Please keep it up, and I'd love to see some maps!

Archangel

July 14th, 2010, 07:34 PM

jmberry

July 24th, 2010, 01:24 AM

Very well, I'll try to get my maps done by tomorrow.

In the mean time, does anyone actually have any comments or criticisms on how things are going?

jmberry

October 18th, 2010, 11:10 PM

The World in 400, Part 1: Europe

Europe is going through the period later historians would call the "Romantic Age". The continent is divided into numerous succesor states to the Romans.

Spain: Spain, or more appropiately the Principality of Hispania, is the westernmost nation in Europe. Spain broke from the Gallic Empire in opposition to Emperor Silvanus and his preference for the northern provinces. Spain has never been affected by the barbarians who are raiding the civilized world, and thus are the wealthiest nad most populous of the Romantic kingdoms. Officially Spain follows the Invictine faith, though it lacks the fanaticism of Gaul and has a large Christian population. Spain is ruled by the Cassii family. Its capital is Toletum, though Prince Cassius is planning to relocate to Emerita Augusta soon. The Hispanians speak a variant of Latin.

Gaul: The Gallic Empire is the main succesor to the Empire in the west. Gaul broke away in the Third Century under Postumus I, and has been independent ever since. Gaul is heavily syncretic, and is the least Roman of the Romantic kingdoms. Gaul is a heavily militarized state, defended by legions and Germanic (primarily Burgundii and Frankish) mercenaries. Gaul is the center of the Invictine faith, and frowns upon other faiths being practised, though a secretive Chrisitain community exists in both Gaul proper and Britain, and druidism continues to be practised in the wilds of Northwest Britain. Gaul is ruled by a Romano-Briton named Vitalinus (Gwydelin, in his own language). The capital is Victorinum (OTL Orleans). The Gallo-Romans speak a Romance language that has significant Gaulish influences (the ancestor, more or less, of Occitan). The Romano-Britons speak Brythonic, a Celtic language.

Ireland: Hibernia has changed little due to its remoteness, although the Christian population is larger in TTL's 400 than it was OTL.

Italy: The Restored Roman Empire is the major power in Italy, with only the city state of Sancti Sebastiani (San Marino OTL). Italy is a weak region, ravaged by war and famine as the Roman Empire collapsed. Italians don't even make up the legions anymore, with the majority of soldiers being Vandals or Alemannians, with the Vandal king being Magister Militum. Italy is a Christian region, following the Syrian Church. The Italians speak a variant of Latin. They are ruled by Theodorus Augustus, though all real power is held by the Magister Militum. The capital is Rome.

Vandals: The Vandals are an East Germanic people who live in the Noricum region. They are currently the largest of the Germanic states after Gothia, and rule over Suevi, Marcomanni, Alamanni, and Quadi tribes as well. Godigisu, the King of Vandals, is also Magister Militum of the Restored Empire, and thus Augustus in all but name. Godigisu is currently worried about the Hunnic Khaganate on his borders, and he has been considering moving his people into the easier-to-defend Italy.

Sarmatian Epirus: Though vassaled to the Huns, the Sarmatians remain independent due to Epirus's geography. The Sarmatians are an Iranian people who migrated west to fill the void left by the Goths, only to be driven further west by the Rhoxolani Alans. The Sarmatians have no king, but a council of tribal chieftains.

Gothia: Gothia's European holdings include all of Greece and Macedon and most of Thrace. The Gothic rule in Greece is light, and the Hellenes continue on as they did under the Romans, though they follow the Syrian Church in opposition to their Manichean rulers. The Walha of Macedonia and Thrace follow the heretical Marcionic faith, while the Ostrogothic nobility themselves are Manichaen.

Hunland: The Huns are the new power rising in Europe, having absorbed the Gepids, Rhoxolani lans, Ossetian Alans, Bulgars, and Scirii into their Khaganate, and vassalized the Sarmatians and Goths. Khagan Uldinus has looked even further west, to the Vandal lands. However, Uldinus is growing old, and he has no universally accepted succesor.

The Rest: The rest of Europe is largely unaffected by the changes. Germania is still divided into numerous tribes, and the Slavs are migrating into Ultrasarmatia in the wake of the Huns.

Next Time: Africa