View Full Version : Panzers 1920? legally?
April 20th, 2009, 02:13 PM
Inspired by the thread about a German air force after Versailles, I had a diferent thought--and one that doesn't require significant changes to Versailles.
Suppose that the tank idea never got anywhere; they were never built in the Great War. Naturally, there would be no prohibition on weapons that haven't been invented. Now, it's perfectly legal for Germany to develop them between the wars. And, it is a very good one for them, as tanks can give each man much greater effect.
The allies could not legally do anything about it...but could--and likely would--have to work to counter the metal beasts.
April 20th, 2009, 02:17 PM
Well, if they never made thier mark in WW1, I doubt anyone would jump on the bandwagon that quick. Maybe a more armor based Spanish Civil War? Or less of one, putting tanks back a decade or so?
April 20th, 2009, 06:52 PM
Remove tanks and you have to wonder on what sort of impact this will have on doctrine post-war. For instance, you probably see armies gearing up to fight a 1918 style war with stormtrooper type spearheads, based on how the front turned out IOTL. Tanks would have a marginal role in such an environment, even if developed. remember, their original purpose was to break a trench warfare deadlock; if armies see another way to reduce the threat, they may not be interested in tanks. OTOH this is postwar germany, where almost any idea could theoretically be adopted. But if tanks are developed in armies designed without any involvement in WWI, they are probably going to have different operational focus. For one thing, massed armored divisions will be delayed, with the tanks probably parceled out to large formations either for use in shock tactics (complementing stormtroopers would be interesting to see), or to contain the enemy when they attempt to break through along the front.
April 21st, 2009, 07:53 PM
And, it is a very good one for them, as tanks can give each man much greater effect.
Your words gave me this silly image: A German army with thousands of little tankettes for its troops. A 100,000 man army and a country that still has lots of industry? Sure, why not go for something completely wild. :)
April 22nd, 2009, 12:44 AM
That many mini-tanks doesn't seem like a sane way to go--trenches would stop them. I could see a land battleship being built--5 inch guns, and armor to match, lumbering along at the speed of an advanving infantryman, and escorted by destroyers--fast tanks armed with machine guns and light cannons to keep infantry off.
Of course, the Germans are innovative--someone might try to combine sturmtrupen with tanks, and get the idea of the massive breakthrough force.
April 22nd, 2009, 12:58 AM
What did OTL's treaty say about armoured cars? Were they banned?
If so, why wouldn't this provision be interpreted as covering all RVs? Building two-man-pillboxes-on-caterpillar-tracks in such a scenario is a good way to prompt France to start going a bit 'Morgenthau plan' on the Rhineland, methinks.
April 22nd, 2009, 09:19 AM
Armed armoured cars were only allowed for the police, in total 150 of them. The Reichswehr was only allowed to have some non armed armoured cars for troop transport, the SdKfz3 series.
April 23rd, 2009, 01:12 PM
150 fast tanks then. Lightly armed and armoured, but enough to learn from. Trenches can be bridged.
April 23rd, 2009, 01:36 PM
well if they are allowed some panzers of there own,they wouldn't need to have a secret agreement with the soviets for the training/develepment of tanks they had OTL.
no idea honnestly what the soviets got out of that deal so no idea what impact that would have on them.
I still think that blitzkrieg or something verry simmilar will be developt, as it was developt to counter trench warfare and only used the panzer as a componant of that an verry importent one but still only part of it.
panzer develepment would probarly be ahead of OTL in terms of production methods and reliability atleast and since things like what kind of tanks would be best suited for what rolles would have been worked out during the weimar years, the nazis would probarly have been capable of a bit more streamlined production no time waisting on production of PZI and PZII etz.
also there is a good chance that the stug would apear earlyer.
there might or might not be an influance on british and french tank desing depending on how many the germans are allowed and if they are still inferior to there own like OTL.
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