The Tungsten Sealion: The Razzies of AH

[Ivan Druzhkov]

Recently, the board decided to recognize the best scenarios/timelines created by people on this board. As a result, the "Turtledoves" were created.

However, just as the Oscars have their Golden Raspberries (http://www.razzies.com/asp/directory/XcDirectory.asp), I think that the Turtledoves should have their nemesis too.

My proposal: We should look for the WORST timelines create by board members, in terms of plausibility, bias, grammar, and award them the coveted Tungsten Sealion. The Sealion, of course, is the simple of sloppy AH thinking, and it's made of Tungsten because I said so.

So, thoughts? Nominations?

[Leo Caesius]

How about something like this?

DISCLAIMER: My Latin is quite rusty. I'd be very open to any corrections or quibbles.

[Paul Spring]

I like the name, I like the design. I just hope nothing I ever wrote wins an "award"!

[Straha]

Well some of my ATLS from the old boadr back in '02 would probably win. :o

[Grimm Reaper]

What was the name of the author who wrote 'Stars and Stripes Forever'? If anyone's name would be our equivalent of the Golden Rasberries...

[Hendryk]

What was the name of the author who wrote 'Stars and Stripes Forever'? If anyone's name would be our equivalent of the Golden Rasberries...
Wasn't that Harry Harrison?
Personally, I can take him or leave him (mostly, I leave him, with the sole exception of The Hammer and the Cross, which I found readable back when I came across it 10 years ago or so), but I've noticed several members love to hate him, so...

[unsunghero]

How about something like this?

DISCLAIMER: My Latin is quite rusty. I'd be very open to any corrections or quibbles.


Well...I have a working knowledge of Latin - can't really make out what your 'award' is saying, though. Want some help?

[Midgard]

Wasn't that Harry Harrison?
Personally, I can take him or leave him (mostly, I leave him, with the sole exception of The Hammer and the Cross, which I found readable back when I came across it 10 years ago or so), but I've noticed several members love to hate him, so...

I personally think Harrison redeemed himself with "West Of Eden", some of the "Stainless Steel Rat" books, and the "Deathworld" series... "Stars and Stripes" however was definitely something not researched too well, and seemed slapped together for a "mainstream" AH, almost certainly designed to sell in the US due to the obvious pro-US bias (the US getting their act together in a middle of a civil war, taking on the British Empire at its height, and not only holding their ground, but taking the fight to the British Isles is ASB at the time).

[Leo Caesius]

It says ORDO OTARIINAE WOLFRAMEAE, the Order of the Tungsten Sealion.

[David S Poepoe]

I think a more appropriate motto would be something based off the Hamburg Amerika Lines "Die Weld ist Mein Feld" - the World is My Field. How about "Time is My Field" - my German is so rusty that I can not provide a translation.

I think the 'Sealion' is a better award name than 'Harrison'. Sounds like a bad punchline if one says 'He's got a Harrison'.

[Leo Caesius]

But this is supposed to be an award for bad AH writers! Goethe isn't appropriate. Die Welt is mein Feld is just too positive... it's a bit like "the world is my oyster," isn't it?

Incidentally, that phrase begins, "die Zeit ist mein Acker," which makes a nice equivalent for history.

Incidentally, I don't know what the adjectival form of Wolframium (tungsten) is, so I made up an adjective wolframeus. Is that philologically sound?

[Ivan Druzhkov]

For a motto, I was considering something along the lines of "Where ignorance meets politics" or maybe "Read a book, dammit!"

Nice award, Leo.

[Thande]

How about "Die Welt ist mein Hummer"

(See Terry Pratchett)

[Leo Caesius]

Given that this could get really nasty rather quickly, I recommend that we reserve this honor not for ATLs that were simply bad (which are better off forgotten), but for those that are so bad that they're good (and thus deserving of the attention).

[Grey Wolf]

I personally think Harrison redeemed himself with "West Of Eden", some of the "Stainless Steel Rat" books, and the "Deathworld" series... "Stars and Stripes" however was definitely something not researched too well, and seemed slapped together for a "mainstream" AH, almost certainly designed to sell in the US due to the obvious pro-US bias (the US getting their act together in a middle of a civil war, taking on the British Empire at its height, and not only holding their ground, but taking the fight to the British Isles is ASB at the time).

yeah, I had read some Harrison SF stuff before and thought it was reasonably good. I'm not normally a pure SF reader though, so its not something that stuck in my mind, but before I came to the trilogy (ever completed ?) in question I'd have said that he was a pretty good genre writer

But AH was not his genre, it just seemed to be pro-American propaganda, even down to the images his prose put in the mind over something as simple as a trooper making his way through London with an important telegram. Everything that possibly could go right for the USA did, and everything that possibly could go wrong for Britain did, usually including incompetence and stupidity, amazing that we had any empire at all really ! His second book had one warship in two places at once (I fancy this may have been corrected for the second edition) and a really reeeeally stupid commander at the Curragh who seemed never to have heard of flank attacks !!

Grey Wolf

[Thyme]

I think the Sealion needs bat wings (to be more of a hodge-podge).

As for Harry Harrison, the work he did be fore AH became popular is better that what he's doing now. The Hammer & Cross series is very readable, some problems from a strict AH standpoint, but very readable.

[Thande]

What about Stirling's Draka? For sheer implausibility of timeline I mean. Of course, ironically this has made it more popular as people ingeniously concoct more realistic Draka timelines...

[fortyseven]

Timelines should only be nominaterd by their authors or with the author's permission.

[robertp6165]

Given that this could get really nasty rather quickly, I recommend that we reserve this honor not for ATLs that were simply bad (which are better off forgotten), but for those that are so bad that they're good (and thus deserving of the attention).

I would go farther and argue that we shouldn't do this at all, for several reasons.

1) It serves no useful purpose. The only reasonably likely result of it is that somebody is going to get their feelings hurt.

2) The nominations are likely to become a forum for certain members of this board to pillory other members with whose political or historical views they disagree. We have enough of that here already.

3) Having something like this around would make it less likely that newbies and lurkers on the board will post their creative efforts on this board.

Given all these negatives, and the fact that there is really nothing positive to say about the idea, I say let's can it, IMHO.

[Grey Wolf]

I would go farther and argue that we shouldn't do this at all, for several reasons.

1) It serves no useful purpose. The only reasonably likely result of it is that somebody is going to get their feelings hurt.

2) The nominations are likely to become a forum for certain members of this board to pillory other members with whose political or historical views they disagree. We have enough of that here already.

3) Having something like this around would make it less likely that newbies and lurkers on the board will post their creative efforts on this board.

Given all these negatives, and the fact that there is really nothing positive to say about the idea, I say let's can it, IMHO.

I thought forty-seven's idea about self-nominations was good, but on the other hand who is gonna nominate themselves, not so much out of not being bothered do I think not, but out of WHY ?

I'm sure I could nominate some of my drivel, but I tend to wipe the worst from my memory so couldn't do so even if I wanted to

So maybe deleting the idea of worst from this board is a good idea, and just focusing on published work/scenarios (GURPS et al) ?

Grey Wolf
To bed with my Port

[ConfederateFly]

I thought forty-seven's idea about self-nominations was good, but on the other hand who is gonna nominate themselves, not so much out of not being bothered do I think not, but out of WHY ?

I nominate my Confederate Timelines

[Tom_B]

I would go farther and argue that we shouldn't do this at all, for several reasons.

1) It serves no useful purpose. The only reasonably likely result of it is that somebody is going to get their feelings hurt.

2) The nominations are likely to become a forum for certain members of this board to pillory other members with whose political or historical views they disagree. We have enough of that here already.

3) Having something like this around would make it less likely that newbies and lurkers on the board will post their creative efforts on this board.

Given all these negatives, and the fact that there is really nothing positive to say about the idea, I say let's can it, IMHO.


I agree wholeheartedly with the comments above. What I might add is when I saw the positive awards being done I was not completely happy with the idea and one reason is something like the mirror image would be inspired.

And it has. :(

[KJM]

I nominate this trainwreck (http://alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=4321).